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Okay but your main point about souls games having easy access to pvp via L2 spam or some equivalent only apples to Elden ring. That does not translate to ds1-3 without a good amount of research and twinking

Sorry man but RL1 runs completely negate every argument you made here. You have no way of knowing definitively how these players got those items / spells or what methods / knowledge they have over you. As it is likely you're facing some pvp vet that searched and created crazy strong builds you could just as easily be facing a newbie who stumbled upon good tools and happens to be decent at pvp.

No. You can try to convince people all you want. I get where you're coming from. I had to watch Runescape PvP die and I tried to sway people like you are. But the pvp scene was doomed from the start. Even DS3 pvp was a fraction of the casuals

Sad the say this, but after years of playing souls game and over a thousand hours of elden ring... I'm.. actually....... Going back to FPS games 🤢🤮🤮🤮

I’ve been playing ds3 again and engaged in some casual pvp as I played through and what I found was surprising to me. I could actually fight other players to a point they’d run away. Fighting spears of the church before Gael I could do enough to have the boss man run away like a coward. That coupled with this video makes me want to play some actual pvp.

Please put more points into vigor and learn how to roll catch better.

Short answer no. Main culprit being atrocious netcode and average connection (particularly on pc), terrible balancing. People play ER pvp only because there is nothing else new in this niche.

The dlc was fun and had really pretty views, atmosphere, some cool boss designs, but it’s been about a month since it came out and I gotta say it’s pretty underwhelming. The coolest part of the dlc is the school house area but beyond that everywhere else felt kinda empty. Like there’s something to do in every area but like 1 thing. Also some of the bosses seemed kinda mid like the golden hippo, the skeleton dude, the sunflower , general gay ass, the fact that a lot of the bosses didn’t get cutscenes was pretty lame too. I forgot but dragons peak was a pretty sick area, I like how you fight dragons of all forms leading up to Bayle who was probably my favorite boss. Radahn was a cool boss, some of his attacks seemed impossible to dodge I honestly couldn’t beat him so I summoned someone to help me so I couldn’t really feel satisfied beating him, Ik it’s problem tho so ig it’s just a skill issue. That ending was so underwhelming tho, I thought radahn being the last boss was actually cool since this is just the first game of elden ring and they might have different plans to bring godwyn or marika as the final boss but that last little cutscene explaining everything was sooo underwhelming. We didn’t even get a cutscene of our character it was just a flashback lmaoo we could’ve at least got a cutscene with the portal thing or literally just out tarnish sitting at a grace with some dialogue in the background but naw

The pvp is just chaos,they'll never care

for anyone who thinks exploiting isnt cheating just google "is exploiting cheating in games" it says most of the gaming community sees exploits as cheating keep duping or cheating in items sweats. you wont get any better

i have 2k hours in elden ring im not swapping to win im swapping because its funny and im bored

I can’t stand the game it’s too slow and the camera is so annoying to use, I hate not being able to fully see what I’m fighting because it’s too big to fit in the frame

as a owner of all brackets characters. I on purpose wear mushroom armor and crown at lvl20 invasions. Yea i use poison weapons. But i avoid for using some one shot skills. And majority of my gear is from items i my self acquired. For example my lvl60 twink has Rakshasas armor. Yes i solo killed Mogh at lvl 60 for main purpose to get huge ass dung pots, as it looks hilarious And while i was at it i killed solo Rakshasa. So i think i earned my power to go down on gankers with my Rakshasa armor and mushroom crown. I feel bad using this build in seamless co-op tho... People there are so bad...

the best advice i could give to new players is to chill the fuck out. pvp competition has always been a continuous cicle. we all entered the ferris weel at the station. and even though some people will stay at the bottom or the top, what does it matter? no what does it REALLY matter. enjoy the ride. it all ends one day

based casual pvp enjoyer

My problem with pvp is zero motivation, like what do I get out of it? Rune arcs are useless And the pvp itself isn’t “fun” enough to play everyday thanks to the net code and complete lack of varied builds Every single fight is usually the same 6 player builds it’s boring as hell If from isn’t ganna update the pvp for the next game( Elden ring is a complete downgrade in that department) then just leave it out and make coop better.

Just anyone? No. Absolutely not. Low level pvp is probably your best chance however. The game has always lacked important combat feedback when playing online even in coop. This problem dates back to the very first souls game ever made. (Yes yes I am talking about latency and bad netcode, but I am wording it in a way that frames the problem with pvp accessibility.) When you need to look at a guide to know what latency and lag looks like, just to be able to play somewhat competently, and in order to be able to appropriately judge enemy distance, that's a lack of important combat feedback/information/tells. Especially where so much of pvp is action and reaction, you need that information and feedback to make a proper decision on countering or other aspects of a fight. Can't learn and improve from your mistakes when death comes in often incomprehensible ways. Say what you want but pvp without a shadow of a doubt has its barriers to access.

Do people still play this game??? Dark souls 2 is better

Twinks are fine against ganks. Twinks are not fine against two unexperienced people doing a first playthough. Ofcourse the twink has the option to simply use less powerful weapons against the second option, but this is simply how i see it.

Question what if you don't have the dlc and get put up against someone that does

Naa, pvp isn't gonna get any better just accept it, ass mush I enjoy this broken game, Once I am done with DLC I will move on.

I dont really care anyone can play whichever build thay want but if they use a cheesy build or are just a mediocre player they cant claim that they are good its just undermining someone's elses practice and i think its rude. To claim to be good you have to git gud that all i care about Also i like winning🥸

PvP in ER is almost worth all the bs once you find that one fun niche. I’ve been having a lot of fun with Bloody Dane’s Footwork at very high levels

when it comes to noobs spamming the same shit over and over take notes from the fighting game community: even though spamming is effective it can be curbed by a good opponent who uses actual timing and moves its adaptable

I love invading - I started off hating invaders in OG Demon's Souls (thank you Scraping Spear), then became a Forest Ganker in DS1 (full giants, DMB on a DGM, lost more than I won, what's a toggle escape anyway?) but messed around with the blue covenant to get DMB, which led me to a new playthrough where I got to 4 Kings as fast as possible, and then started invading. Fell in love with it. Been invading ever since. I love it. That being said, Elden Ring can be the most brutal, unfun game when you invade. It's pretty disheartening to get 8 or 9 or 16 invasions in a row where it's nothing but Kevins and Babysitter Billys pelting you with magic and everything else under the sun and your fun little theme RP build using off-meta or in general "fun" setups gets cremated alive by the worst blender imaginable. Absolutely wretched. 0/10, I hate this game. "Oh, just one more invasion then I'm done." Then... you get the one invasion. Everything falls into place. Babysitter Bobby let down his guard and lets himself get hit and roll-caught repeatedly and you get a sick psuedo-combo kill on his behind, and then Kevin is a sitting duck. Or perhaps you manage to do the world's nastiest turn and burn with a crappy hawk sword r2 into blood slash and take all three goobers out. You get that win. 10/10 game. It's all worth it. This all to say that I feel you big time, and while sometimes Elden Ring makes me want to tear my hair out, and my skill level has hit a rather low personal ceiling, I just can't stop.

Those defending the ganking community for SURE got bullied a lot in their household or out in public at some point in their life and wanna take that rage against those of us who just want a good fight in both ends. Argue that colosseums exist but yet, and you all fail to perceive this, it’s just as toxic in there. Why? Cause you gank and gank the invaders with magic and glitches so much that they stoop to the same level. Now I’ve gotta block a full quarter and a half of the community to get a viable fight that has mutual respect. The community is full of hypocrites that need to get a good reality check as a beating from momma or poppa cause the way things looking, this game and future FS games are in trouble.

You know all those fancy, flashy weapons? Throw them out. Be aggressive with simple weapons. Like Mike Tyson said one time. "Everyone has a plan until they're punched in the face". People panic most of the time when you're aggressive!

3V1 Ganks with L2 spam can be incredibly bullshit no matter what you say.

Great video and you hit the nail on the head. DS3 formed a community, and ER has a community of nothing but redditors. A lot of these players, ER is their first impression of souls formula which is a VERY weak interpretation of proper pvp. I could go on and on and on about how bad ER multi player is, and even speak of points you didn't mention. I personally am VERY bitter at coming from DS3 and going to ER, that I actually uninstalled ER, moved from console to PC, and haven't even purchased ER for PC. Anyways, glad someone else sees just how bad ER is. Subbed because we share a like interest and I personally have share your resentments on ER.

Wow! You must have been super disappointed with the lackluster DLC.

The DLC ruined the game for me. Before you say git gud, difficulty was fine for me

I can tolerate it lol

albinauric pots. Keep it on the D low.

I play as blue. I clear level. Never fight red.

I like researching how to fight. Builds, meta, timing, etc.. Probably my favorite part of pvp.

Sane Ryan mentioned

The biggest mistake many Hosts make is when describing the Invaders they fail to realize those are players just like them, who bought the game with their hard earned money and are trying to get something out of it and have fun as well.

*dedicates time ro getting gud in coleseum* *Dude aith mcdonalds wifi procs %50+ of my bleed bar from 10 feet away while moon walking* *Uses merikas mischeif and goes afk* Also for practice for getting good at invasions the 2v2 and 2v3 coleswums would be a great training ground. Your rando teamate dies and then you get to practice a 2v1 for a brieef second. As anotjer user said though, nobody does 2v2 or 3v3 because nobody wants a fair fight. I hope the seamlwss coop mod can save this game. Maybe add covenants some how/ increase online player limit.

I was good at dark souls 3 PVP and invasion AND they were very fun! Just watched a clip of myself getting 5 consecutive kills in a fight club. I do not enjoy elden ring pvp nor am I good at it lol

Elden Ring was fun but lately it got me bored. Everything is so depressive and sad. I got headache out of it. Thats why i stopped playing it. But there is Mario Oddissey atleast 😄🙌🏻

Invaders used to be terrifying. I was once invaded by a player in the depths and it was one the most paranoia inducing experiences I ever had with DS1. Invaders in Elden Ring have been turned into a joke. They are now just something for gankers to farm. Something that can easily stun lock, rush, and easily overwhelm a invader. This is because Elden Ring's PvP design hinges on the host actually progressing the level, and not just sitting at a site for grace waiting for an invader to appear. This would be forgivable, but fromsoft has had 10 years worth of broken Dark Souls PvP to learn from. So it's kinda bizarre how they've still not done something to stop password summons from being used to gank invaders, item dropping, item duping, and removing the need for the host to actually engage with the game because the phantom can just kill the entire level by themselves. I wish when host's password summoned a phantom, the host cannot change the password. So they can't just password summon a powerful phantom and then turn off the password to gank invaders. Or that phantoms could not drop items. I know it would suck to remove trading, but the benefits of preventing most twinks from ruining the PvP outweighs the loss.

That first fight was mad epic. Maybe i should do pvp at lower levels 🧐

This game reward build more than skill this the main issue. Then you talk about skill guys think about spacing management when u have a PvP which reward build and passiv gameplay it's mean the issue IS structural. When u have AoW which do more dmg than parry or backstab you couldn't excpect anything about ballance. Finally when u had a good basis PvP like dks2 thanks to the mechanics which have been implemented like super parry animation cancelling iFrame on backstep making passiv and agressiv playstyle viable and you see that the studio has thrown everything in the garbrage you understand that there is nothing more to expect from FS

This is something I've been struggling with on a daily basis ever since I began invasions in the DLC. The issue for me is that it is just too much fun to make a level/area more difficult for an honest group of 3. FS has something SO special and unique with their PvP, it's hard not to sift thru dozens of invasions until I get a good one. That being said, I've been a FS dedicated meat rider and mostly PvEer for the last 2 years. And I have never been so mad and confused with the game as I am now. Some these hosts make me scream and revert to my 2009 MW2 Lobby Behavior. Some these Spawn points completely unhinge my mindset. The fact that a ton of enemies can hit you and do massive damage, the Fact the brought Seed of a Giant Tree back again with another 10 slot item. The more I think about the stuff that I lose too the more upset I get. I wish I didn't take it so personally but I do. It makes me long for halflight where the invader was scaled to the number of players entering the Church. It makes me miss having that Divine lightning spear that gave Poise because it was MY ONE THING that I had over them. I remember the joy of getting my first upgraded spear for 30 Host kills. We don't have anything like that to supplement Invasions in ER. And while its not outwardly noticeable to the casual player, it leaves players like me with a hollow feeling even when we do manage to pull off a 1v3. Thanks for the vid, I've been really appreciating your perspective and thoughts on these matters

Preach, Jon!

I think that’s fair; No one should just jump into meta level PvP. If you want to get in, start a new playthrough and keep your tongue running, or once you get the racusant finger, keep that on. You’ll get a taste of everything and you’ll see which levels are kinder to you. Make sure to play like a collector. Try weapons you want to like or spells. Make sure to do things in your favor. Try pots or perfumes, maybe an exalted flesh. Maybe you like coil serpent shield and Erdtree greatsheild so you can poison casters and bonk hosts. Go out of your way to be weird until you get to a level you like. You should consider trying higher poise fashion souls. I play at 67, so I’m not death combined so easily. I run a shield to cover my mistakes. Also, strength is easy mode, intelligence is easy mode, bleed is easy mode and faith is baby mode. You don’t have to be good to get in, you have to git gud to be a sweat; no one likes a sweat. So get cozy, use the mimic veil and make sure you have an oops tool: endure, quickstep, rotm, waves of darkness or others like palm blast. Don’t use crutches as crutches, use them like spice. Just enough to be interesting

Personally, I think Invasions would be more tolerable if there was a greater window of time you can't be invaded after you've already been invaded. In the final area of the DLC, my friend and I were invaded a lot...to the point progress was almost impossible. We'd finish off one invader and then get hit with another almost immediately, both of us exclaiming in voice chat "What?! It's been less than a minute since we got rid of the last one...I thought it was supposed to be at least 5 minutes between invasions?". I've said in a comment on a previous video of yours; I don't mind invasions, they can be pretty fun and spice up a run, but if you're in an area where you're struggling to make progress already, being invaded every few minutes really dampens that fun. One specific series in the final zone of the DLC was multiple invasions happening in the area with the Ice-Themed Hornsent Warrior (though most invasions had them running to hide behind these warriors throughout the zone, this is just about the ice one in particular), we made it to that point and we'd die because the invaders would run and hide behind the warrior, then we couldn't progress without triggering it. We'd try to fight it but even at Blessing Lv17 at that point, we were doing only minor damage to the warrior. The invaders just hid behind him and threw shit at us while we tried to dodge the warrior's attacks, then after we died, they'd run up and teabag. It really wasn't very fun having to go through that area like 10+ times because it kept happening over and over in that one area.

My problem with the pvp is that it feels like rock paper scissors. I come in with a build and the enemy hotswaps to a build that denies me any chance at a win. I come in with a sword and shield and they swap to a UGS and mash out of hitstun. I pull out a dagger to poke between their swings and they offhand a cleanrot sword to poke me back with more damage. If I did somehow start out-damaging them at this point they'll just run away spamming a ranged attack and using flaming strike any time i get close. My problem is that I don't feel like I'm playing against a person using their skills, I'm just switching between counters as they hotswap through every meta build in the game until they find one that I can't counter with my build. It's rock paper scissors. I don't want to carry a dagger with kick for shield poke builds. I don't want to carry a dagger to counter hyperarmor on basic R1s. I don't want to carry a buckler to parry SwiftRiversofmoonveilwhateverthefuck. I don't want to carry around 30 counters just to have a chance. It's lame and why I stopped playing.

i get 'dropping items' but ill never get how or why people in limgrave have late game items and spells like adula's moonblade or ROB and Snow Witch set

The answer is yes. I've lost count of the times I am laughing like a maniac after an invasion or felt myself engaged and amused. Above all else, it's just plain fun. Nothing feels more vindicating and entertaining than smashing a prepared gank one by one until all that is left is a host running for their dear life only to get cannon of Haima'd off a ledge to their doom. Or to utterly devastate two out of three in a gank in a single move and just feel the dread of a host as their whole party was wiped out with a single spell/slap an annoying host around with the Carrian reagel scepter spin pinning them against a wall until they go splat. It could be better, though. Ganks are still major work-outs to deal with. Invasions could be far better.