I think asking invaders to go to the coliseum also fundamentally misunderstands invasions. Not to say the coliseum system could not scratch that itch if it had separate multiplayer maps for teams to brawl in AND had good, clear matchmaking with ease of access and no long queue times with rewards. But a boring, flat pit of sand does not an invasion replacement make.
Definitely this. Even as a PvP player who’s dabbed in some invasions, there is something special about learning the layout of somewhere like Irithyl or Lothric Castle and using it to your advantage. Solo invasions in places like Leyndell, Stormveil or the Shadow Keep would be epic.
3:50 I played elden ring without psn so when I heard people complain about invaders I assumed they could join your world at any time or place. In reality only you can let them in. The invaders are a counter balance like the extra health bosses get
Yep. Except in previous games they were forced on you in interesting ways. Dark souls 3 for example. Like rune arcs there were embers. Using one increased your ho by almost 30% and allowed summons. The catch was then you are open to invasion so players could steal your ember for themselves. To force players to be introduced you were automatically embedded whenever you kill a boss and wander to the next area.
@@xenosayain1506 Except in DS3 if you never summoned anyone you were placed at the very bottom of the priority bracket because it wanted to fill lobbies that have more than 1 player in them first, resulting in you potentially waiting several hours before actually getting Invaded for using an Ember.
Also I think DS3 pvp was Miyazaki saying ‘Okay I know you guys who have been fans of Dark Souls since DS1 want pvp.. here’s all out 6 man pvp with purples thrown in this your swan song”. And then pvp added to Elden Ring was just tacked on because meh they’ve still got some legacy dark souls fans left they have to appease but now we don’t matter cause 10x more new people came into the series with Elden Ring and us OG Dark Souls players are now the minority
Most people played ER because they HEARD how amazing DS was. Hell, ER's sales are like 2x times bigger than the entire DS series' combined; if we account for multiple-game buyers, the OG Dark souls community is like 1/4 of ER's community, AT BEST.
I hate to be that guy but they havent fixed TT in 2 years. Its a chosen feature at this point. There is nothing wrong with invasions bejng tied to co-op. The issue lies in just a few key things. -TT obviously -The player limit making most invasions 3v1 instead of 2v1 and 3v2 -and invasions in the open world. If they limited it dungeons it would be fine. DS3 perfected invasions imo. They just have to go back to that system.
Miyazaki really likes making something from scratch, and with stuff they've never tried before. He's not a fixer, he's a creator. So we're waiting for the next souls game for any kind of good system, sadly. If they put invasions back in at all...
Miyazaki not playing his games after creating them is a flaw. How is he supposed to understand the feedback he receives if he cannot experience it first hand. This is necessary in game dev. Games are played, not just watched. This is the reason some of the changes feel like an after thought. Its the reason why changes to pvp are taking so long and are so little, and explains why the overall balance of the game is so disconnected within itself. We have weapons that are straight up overtuned and others that feel meaninglesss.
Except most dungeons suck lol. The best places are the castles and some of the overworld places. The problem is the overworld itself. Big, open and empty with little wag to traverse and few shortcuts. Elden ring being as big open world as it is was one of the worst things they could have done
@@TritamusYeah, block the people who didn't choose to be invaded, their only way out that doesn't involve a quit out. Ladies and gentlemen, the easiest way to say you're the toxic PvP player everyone hates without stating it outright.
I wouldnt be surprised if they dont bother with invasions next game. They really half-assed invasions and multiplayer in general in ER, so if they just let it go it wouldnt be shocking. Seeing as how much they love making these flashy garbage movesets like backhand blades now, perhaps it wouldnt be a worthwhile experience regardless...
You're spot on. I feel the next souls games will have no PVP, or limited entirely to arenas, if they take inspiration from this era... and since ER made them so much money, they will gravitate in that direction.
Sekiro had no multiplayer experience and it’s still one of the best games ever made. However seeing a game that is a spiritual successor to ds with no invasions would be very disappointing
Correct, I think this is the last game invasions will even have been implemented. From Soft has been moving further and further away from invasions since Dark Souls 1
@@calebheisserer5391sekiro isn’t really a souls game though. Or at least it’s the most detached from the other games. Bloodborne multiplayer system is actually very similar to elden rings but bloodborne also wasn’t really known for its multiplayer in the same way that ds2 and ds3 were
That being said, I'm a huge fan of souls multiplayer and I think it would be a massive shame if they got rid of invasions personally. I had a blast invading in the other souls games and I'll admit Elden Ring probably felt the worst for invasions, but maybe we'll get lucky and they'll put more effort in next time.
As a developer who is currently visualizing the role of a product manager at from software, the reason you feel unheard is twofold: - priorities, obviously - there is no factual basis for assuming that the PvE community will definitively not have negative backlash. There is no way for them to test this without some kind of “beta” like release, which not everyone will take part in and feedback will skewed. This is their most commercially successful product and focusing on a subset of a community is a major risk whether this community chooses to acknowledge it or not. They would need to release a game similar to souls that is marketed for being PvP engaging. And it would need to succeed tremendously to be implemented in other parts of their studio. You are being heard and so is the positive feedback for seamless coop. But you will not get your prayers answered here in Elden Ring. it will be weighed and considered in future releases, where it may be determined to be a risk, yet again. As someone before me said… remain sad forever 🤷♂️
I like Fromsoftware because they made the games they want, not what the market wants. If they abandon that, they abandon what many people like about the games and the developer.
"If they can give me a good reason to not implement these changes..." Basically, it boils down to; What business sense does it make for From Software to put additional time, effort, and funding into this game when it has already achieved a majority of its lifetime sales? What business case is there for this? How much will it cost, how much income will it generate, and how much profit will be made from this project? Unfortunately, there is simply no solid business case for implementing these propositions at this point in Elden Ring's lifecycle. As players, we would love for it to happen, but at the end of the day, money is what moves companies and people, not goodwill or exposure. People don't work for free, so unless you are proposing to fund this initiative yourself, the incentives are simply just not aligned for this to happen. It would make more business sense for From Software to take this feedback and consider implementation in their next product that would actually generate new sales and profit.
@@Nobody32990 I don't disagree with your statement that it would be a good long-term business strategy to maintain the goodwill your most dedicated fanbase. Keyword, long-term. It would make more business sense for From Software to take this feedback and consider implementation in their next product that would actually generate new sales and profit. Which would be the long-term play.
@@Nobody32990 I agree with your assessment that maintaining the goodwill of your most dedicated fanbase is a good long-term business strategy. Key word: Long-term. Unless there is a real possibility that the "most dedicated fanbase" will go out and purchase millions of dollars worth of additional copies of Elden Ring, a game they already own, the only real long-term play here for Fromsoft to make is to take this feedback and consider implementation in their next product that would actually generate new sales and profit.
@@Nobody32990 I agree with your assessment that maintaining the goodwill of your most dedicated fanbase is a good long-term business strategy. Keyword; Long-Term. Unless said "most dedicated fanbase" will go out and purchase an additional few million dollars worth of copies of Elden Ring if these changes are implemented, there is no business case to continue to fund and work on major updates to Elden Ring. On the other hand, the Long-term play for Fromsoft here would be to take this feedback and consider implementation in their next product that would actually generate new sales and profit.
Honestly hot take but people wouldn’t put up with the awful netcode elden ring has if invasions weren’t as uniquely fun as they are. I’m not interested in the arena because that’s an experience that can be gotten better in a million other places but the only other game I reliably can get invasions in is ds3. Fromsoft is seriously missing out on a lot by ignoring just how special and fun invasions really are just imagine if the game didn’t have these giant glaring issues with its multiplayer
It's what lured me in. Ds3 was my first souls game and I thought there was no multiplayer until I was invaded in the undead settlement. He fought me, toyed with me, then gave me tips on improving my build. I then became hyped and optimized to hell to be ready for invaders until I had the confidence to invade myself. by the time I got to farron swamp I was ready for pvp and the faction area made it even cooler seeing a red, watchdog, and me brawl it out. It was one of the most unique pvp scenarios elden ring players will never see.
That's not a hot-take. If there was literally anyone else who put out a souls-like with invasions with decent balance that had a good net code, I'd drop Elden Ring in a heartbeat.
I'm no PVPer, but I feel your pain. It's sorta how I feel in regard to boss design, that FromSoft is moving in a direction away from the type of things I first fell in love with all the way back in DS1.
You mean the extremely slow and unrewarding to learn moveset that made the vast majority of DS1 bosses one dimentional ? The most loved boss in DS3 is Artorias of the Abyss, boss design in Elden Ring is Artorias with more depth.
@@ni9274: if the combat was so "unrewarding" it wouldn't be the ground breaking inspiration for an entire genre nor would RUclips be so full of video essays about how DS1 changed people's lives.
I don't agree that the arena was made to segregate invaders away from pve players. That seems far fetched since they could just not have put invasions in the game to segregate invaders. As to the separated pve/pvp balancing that was definitely meant to appease pve people. But I also imagine that we would not have gotten as many pvp balance changes if they hadn't made that separation. In regards to the nature of souls pvp, I thing we are eventually going to have to admit that Elden Ring is not a souls game. ER has similar mechanics to souls games, but ER is likely intended to be a different sort of game in name, and function. The pvp aspect was likely added for mostly tradition, and was never intended to be like souls.
I agree Elden ring is not dark souls it's elden ring it may be a evolution of the formula but it is not it's predecessors I don't get why people demand so much more from Dark souls those games are still playable and in the case of Dark souls 3 I think dark souls has come to a satisfying ending I say out with the old in with the new don't let the water stagnate and rot
Screw this I’m just going to seamless, it’s literally got the bare minimum for pvp changes and it’s miles ahead of vanilla, co-invasions, no blues, 6 player sessions, amazing co-op, incentives to invade (you can use rune arcs in invasions making them more valuable), and incentives to leave invasions on (gives upgrade materials and other nice loot upon killing them) AND has amazing connections with no barriers or invisible walls. Just the better experience overall.
For me, Elden Ring is my first and only souls game, and as someone who loves the pvp and loves to invade, seeing Fromsoft tossing invasions to the side like an unwanted toy just hurts. It sucks enough constantly wandering into ganks, cheaters, exploiters, and afk farmers, but the thought that From isn't even trying to fix these things but instead relegating invaders to the side, sweeping them under the shelf, ignoring us to the point of enabling all the awful crap we invaders already have to go through just to maybe find one match of playable, chaotic, fun pvp just hurts. Hopefully Fromsoft realizes that it's the PvP that keeps a game alive, and don't just leave invaders to rot.
@@thrashbroI hope their next game is nothing like elden ring or dark souls though. I would prefer something more akin to bloodborne where the style of game is very similar but the combat and gameplay loop are very different. And I honestly think that’s what we’re going to get
If only you played ds2/ds3 in their prime. Ah those were good times. The issue with elden ring is that from the ground up the game is not built with multiplayer in mind like those games were. The one and only sign you should need to recognize that is the lack of covenants. Especially considering there are so many factions in elden ring that could’ve had a covenant attached to it, the prime examples being: recusants, bloody fingers, hunters, golden order fundemantalist, hunters of death, duskborn, carians, and probably many more. What’s funny to me is that the volcano manor quest line serves as a pseudo covenant by having you hunt down NPCs and giving you rewards for it, similar to how an actual covenant in ds3 would give you rewards for winning a certain amount of invasions. But having freindly co op covenants alongside hostile invasion covenants ads a rivalry and depth to the multiplayer that gives the game increased replay ability as well as more immersive role playing for your character.
@@NoBumBuh depending on how long it is till we get a new game it eventually will be. There was a 6 year gap between ds3 and elden ring and I can tell you that the only reason people were playing that game in 2019-2022 was because of the multiplayer and invasions, otherwise everyone would’ve been playing sekiro
personally I think that the last patch was dogshit. it didn't do nearly enough to fix what's not working properly. I wonder where they get their feedback from
It nerfed Swift Slash, Blindspot, Spread Crossbow which were the most complained about things before the patch, it fixed chainsaw, it apparently fixed invasions spawn, it made light greatsword and hand to hand go from mediocre to meta and buffed many underwhelming spells and AOW. Everybody was asking for Swift Slash, Blindspot and Spread Crossbow nerf what do you mean ? Did you expect this patch to fix netcode, player limit or add covenants ? In that case all Elden Ring patches are dogshit.
@@ni9274 I was expecting them to finally patch the Holy Damage bug that prevents buffs from working properly in online play, for starters. That shit has existed since launch, and it's speculated that it carried over from Dark Souls 3 since Holy Damage is literally using Dark Damage as a base.
I hear you but it’s supply and demand my guy. Also I feel like more importantly in order to appease the annoyance and often “grief” caused by invaders they would have to first change summoning cooperator mechanics . The amount of time I wasted rejoining my friend (host) who got smoked by a twink throwing consumables is enough to make any average player say “this sucks”. If you’re joined by password you should just stay linked.
The fact that the gank fight at the end of the DLC proved you can stay linked to the host just makes the lack of it for the rest of the game feel worse For those who don't know, if you lay down your summon sign for the gank fight against Miquella's followers and the host dies in the fight but you survive you stay in their world because the fight is treated like an invasion Not only is this a slap in the face to co-op enjoyers who deserved to have this as a feature the whole time, it also proves that if they were to increase player count it would make co-op invasions (invading as a team with your friend) technically possible God the multiplayer could have been so much better
I miss the days of Dark Souls, where there was no distinction between pvper and pver, just souls players because at the end of the day you had to engage with online (invasion in particular) in some way or the other (we were encouragd to do so as well). Removal of solo invasions and 6 players in multiplayer are the biggest fukc ups of Fromsoft to date.
They removed solo invasions in ds2... The only time invasions seemed 'balanced was ds3' and I do agree they just should have kept that system. But as an elden ring enjoyed I enjoy the chaos that is open world pvp. I expect a few balance patches and nothing else. Hopefully the next fromsoft soulslike is more intense and finally tuned.. Bb2!?!?
I Went on dark souls 3 today, first with my low level build and put on watchdog covenant and I was nonstop invading.. then I went to pontiff with my meta build and I was shocked to see how many people were playing I had back to back 3v3 fights and it reminded me just how much elden ring dropped the ball. Honestly ds3 had more activity then elden ring and that speaks volumes.. I was on PlayStation by the way.
I love how you're talking about broken PVE bullshit affecting PVP just as that phantom is drilling into you with the most anime lighting crap ash of war I've ever seen (around 2:30). This is Elden Ring. THIS. Is. Elden Ring. Forever. I've gone back to DS3. Looks like a very well written video though, as always. Arena as CAGE is brilliant. I'm afraid most will probably just keep playing ER until a new game comes out, because of population.
@@dylanmaloy6646there’s a good amount of people. I’ve been invading at lv 100 and there’s a ton of people in the dlc and the pvp areas. Wex dust also helps a ton for invasions at any level
" the most anime lighting crap ash of war I've ever seen" How is this more anime than the weapons skills of the Frayed Blade, the Ringed Knight Paired Greatswords, the Friede's Great Scythe, the Splitleaf Greatsword, Gael's Greatsword ? How is doing a triple backflip with two giants sword while releasing fire wave not more anime than doing a grounded spinny attack with some lightning effect ? Fromsoft always made anime looking ashes of war, what you see in this DLC isn't more anime than what was in Ringed City. Also this specific AOW isn't hard to counter, you just need to dodge in and it will completely miss you.
@@ni9274 The anime bullshit definitely started with TRC. It also introduced shitty lore into the game, retconning a lot of DS1&2's meaningful ideas. DS3 is far from perfect, and has a few missteps or even backsteps. I consider that to be where the rot began, and it fully flowered in Elden Ring. But even the stupidest looking weapon arts were mostly tactical and not overtuned like in ER. I'm not a DS3 fanboy, I just think it was less absurd than ER.
Honestly its fair to ask form some updates on the pvp aspect but trying to take down the pve aspects is not it, specially cause most of the experience is pve, if it felt like playing with a broken sword against all the pve content and later the pvp is amazing many people would not care and drop the game because most of the charm of this game is their different zones with different enemies and most of all bosses, many people might join an invasion as either an invasor or a blue from time to time but its not their whole expectation of this game. I believe the change to divide pve and pvp was a good idea cause it made the possibility of nerfing a weapon skill or magic/incantation that might be to strong in pvp but in pve its good, somewhat decent or in some scenarios really bad already. The game isnt really targetted to a pvp audience, for example the trailers explore the world the atmosphere and the enemies and weapons you might get in a new entry or a new dlc, and many people that react to it always say: "Damn what was that place,weapon or boss?" they never say: "i wonder how that will be in pvp" I think your points are somewhat valid but you make more damage to your cause by attacking the opposite side instead f trying to appeal to them to help you.
Yep, people tend to bind coliseum and invasion in the same box, yet they're extremely different. I like coliseum but the arena is so restricted, in invasion I can make use of my environment even if I'm outnumber but it feel more enjoyable.
While I agree that their focus is clearly not on PvP, and they shy away from it more and more with each souls/elden ring game, I think you're being a bit unfair to say they haven't taken any advice or made any concessions for PvP players. We did get the wex dust change to invasion items patched in, and while the PvP/PvE balance split was largely for PvE players to not have their toys taken away by balancing them, we have seen a number of PvP specific balance and mechanical changes to player tools. But yeah, it's obvious that very few of the people involved in making decisions play the PvP at all.
You know what I realized? Elden Ring is not a game. It's an interactive cinematic choose your own adventure story full of toys. They didn't design this to be a game - they designed set pieces and characters to fill them, they created themes and narrative to express them, the created weapons and enemies to be slain by them, but at no point in this process did they give any real consideration to what this would feel like after the novelty of these things wore off nor what this would feel like as the enemy being slain - the invader. They wanted to make stuff that was cool! They succeeded. There's more laser beams and anime moves in this game than the are dopamine receptors in the brain, probably. They aren't changing the core issues because they see Elden Ring as a success. Which in my mind can ONLY be because they don't see the issues. You're right, they don't engage with their games the way we invaders do. Even so, MANY balance choices have *shocked* me. Look at the spread crossbow or swift slash on DLC release and tell me with a straight face they know what they're doing lmao I dare you. Nothing has done more harm to my perception of the competency of their balancing skills than divine bird feathers though. It doesn't make sense experientially, it doesn't make sense numerically, it's like it was balanced entirely on intuition and vibes and never tested once. It's so bad it gives me secondhand embarrassment - like you really thought THIS was worth putting in the game as is? The same game which has bestial sling? Honestly, the thing we need to push for most is From hiring some kind of dedicated PvP QA team. Someone to test this stuff - before it's released. Clearly nothing like that exists right now, and clearly there is a communication boundary between From and the PvP community. Moving forward, I'm afraid to say I genuinely *do not look forward* to PvP in future titles unless or until they establish a meaningful internal change. Maybe next time will be better, or maybe it won't, but under current design paradigms, it doesn't seem worth getting my hopes up. Elden Ring is a mess. A mess I love, a mess I've spent three thousand hours in. But it's a damn mess. I'm making the transition to seamless coop soon and not looking back.
I feel like while a plethora of feedback will make FromSoft notice the PvP community and the abhorrent state of multiplayer, nothing short of a solid framework, detailing what needs to be done and how, will give us something that is satisfactory. One of the largest examples I think about is how a player named Gabri made an entire video detailing a poise-rework, and then eventually an update came out following their rework to a T to the point where it did not seem like mere coincidence. We need to come up with something similar, as either a community or as individuals, and push the shit out of it. Luckily, we already have some examples of some reworks, both in idea and in practice. Seamless is a working example of a multiplayer overhaul: I have heard there are also plans in the works for co-invasions. Then there's the one that I have shilled for time and time again, _which may or may not have to do with my hand in creating it. Have you checked it out by the way?_ I have changed some of my thoughts since then as it still needed more time to cook, but that rework was designed with the idea of leaving most of the intended asymmetry in for PvErs while preventing players from exploiting it.
big reminder to everyone to not be too disappointed in 1.13: the patch had to be released asap due to an error in the credits where some people were erraneously not credited, so hopefully next patch will be the big one(but who knows when we'll get it)
@@Mr-Hakim “Correction of end credits In update 1.12, an error was included in the credits of the game. This issue will be corrected in the next update.” Says next patch.
My hopes & prayers for a truly impactful change to Elden Ring multiplayer is quickly dying from each new patch invasions isn’t seen as part of the game anymore. I’m afraid of the future for new games that invasions might be extinct or forbidden by the mighty PvE overlords then game will be extremely shallow & boring no longevity. These videos still give me optimism and nostalgia to better days.
@@ianwilliams2632 My view of Elden Ring that it was design and release this way & the final cut vision with no covenants which is tragic and complete slaughter of multiplayer in entirety. I don’t completely dislike the game kinda just missing some huge gameplay mechanics felt like a downgrade compared too prior entries!
If we don't get the changes we need, I'm simply moving on. And that is what is likely going to happen. Your channel and comments have been a goldmine of good suggestions for fromsoft. So it's not like they aren't feasible suggestions, they just aren't listening. Mods can add a lot of life to most video games imo, but console companies and game developers are holding that back. I think if elden ring pvp heads and modders put their collective braincells together they could make a pvp focused mod to rival seamless co-op. Ultimately I think that we need cross play and possibly mods in order to make future FS titles have more longevity. That is, if the design trend keeps going this direction. But it needs more than that to have real longevity, like a number of the multiplayer suggestions people have been ranting and raving for. At current, almost nothing really promotes longevity in this game besides the size of the world itself, and the amount of gear one could "potentially" make builds out of.
seReason is, Myazaki doesnt like pvp. He kept it just for the lulz but I, as other people in here, belive they wont keep invasion mechanics in their next games. Its a shame, me and my friends only buy Fromsoft games for the multiplayer. We didnt bother with that Sekiro because of that. Simply put, the PvE aspect of ER is a 7 at most. Its the invasion mechanic that makes fromsoft games unique.
We as a player base need to make support tickets that explain to Bandai Namco/Fromsoft that the multiplayer experience is terrible for invaders. We need change. Elden Ring could be the BEST multiplayer experience with very little effort
Not gonna happen. The game is done, and not even a single unpaid intern will work on it further. See you in 5 years in the next game, if that game will have any PvP in it.
Elden ring has multiple ways to remove invaders when playing co-op. The first thing is fogwalling, like the fact that the host can just IGNORE the Invader and click to the fog wall then, Gone. No more bad red man. Also the only thing that the game is asking you is to kill an invader, then you have 15 minutes invasions-free (unless the togue is active). Also you have the possibility of an help from Blues, W I T H N O S P A W N C O O L D O W N S, meaning that you can get infinite help immediately, over and over. Only to kill a red man that wanted to play the game in a completely different way. I want to believe the possibility that they're waiting the DLC to be consumed, only to give a PVP update (like the colosseum one) with 6 or more players in invasions. All of that to continue to remain Elden Ring popular for more months and the future. I hope so. I love the potential the PVP of this game has, will be a shame if it'll go to waste.
I wish I could submit this video to Bandai Namco, but you spend too much time complaining and not enough time giving a concise argument for the changes you want. I agree with the changes you recommend - please make a video that’s suitable for making the case.
I guess I’ll wait for another game yeah,honestly winning invasions does not amount to much imo,not like in bloodborne for example for numerous reasons I don’t have the patience to list here. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if the next game does not have PvP at all,or if it’s even worse than this,they just want to make pve games now bc the casuls bring in the money ig. I’m afraid we’ll be ignored regardless.Its been two years or so and still nothing has changed. I’m sorry for sounding so pessimistic but there’s little to change my mind about this atm.
get these videos condensed into a transcript and translated, send them over to fromsoft, promote these videos on any Elden ring subreddit you find, our initiative will definitely help, but you are the big RUclips man with influence in the end
Also 10:55 theres your reason why invasions are shunned by many and apparently now even the developers, the problem, the solution and how you can contribute are all in this video but not in the nonsensical whines but in the gameplay its right there why no one except invaders get a kick out of invasions in ER
Maybe FromSoftware doesnt have anyone in authority who invades, and it's just a few lower level staff who invade often. They don't have enough voice/clout to make any difference in decision making, which sucks but it's also just the reality of hierarchy.
DS1 had this down perfect. When i got good enough i only invaded people who had been indicted. I saw it as sweet revenge and i felt zero guilt taking their ears anyway i could. Nothing will ever beat seeing that message, "The guilty pay the price!"
My idea would be to create a separated pontiff like island, that would function as a pvp zone with raised possible player count to 6 which would serve as a less restricted arena with fluid invasions and summons that would operate similarly to well known ds 3 pvp spots. Since fromsoft doesnt seem to want to change the multiplayer model for the overworld they could at least do that to ensure longevity, since pvp was always what made souls games live past their expected time and seemed to be the end goal for every single one of my playthroughs.
I think this whole game is absolutely hilarious. They completely gutted the PvP experience in favor of people who complain the game is too hard. Souls games are not hard. When the game has given you the ability to level everything to 99, the game is, by definition, as hard as you make it. It's only hard when you stay in PvP brackets while trying to PvE. There are so many ways to level a character to max, it's absolutely bonkers that anyone can say the game is hard.
Miyazaki himself has stated that they pushed the envelope in order to make this game as hard as possible. Levels alone do not make you powerful. You can have 60 Vigor and get all that depleted by Malenia in NG. Damage scales from weapon upgrades. There are a myriad of buffs for sure but they mean nothing if you lack the skill to execute them. You do have a point that the easy mode exist in the form of the mimic tear, but that does not take the fact that the game took some questionable design choices.
To add, I think they gutted invasions due to not knowing how to properly implement them well with the open world. Their engine can have some serious bugs so maybe there is a tech reason as to why they had to do this. For example it caught my attention that it took them two years to finally allow Torrent to be summoned in the Elden Beast fight.
I really think ER was a botch from the start. Covid ruined what was probably a great initial idea. Something more Souls-like turned more and more ambitious, with less and less effective communication between teams thanks to lockdowns and other problems.
@@lionheart4424 False. Levels are directly tied with how powerful you are. Stats scale the weapon damage. Stats allow spell use. Stats scale sorc/incant boost. Stats determine how many rolls one may commit to. Stats determine carry weight, by proxy also determine roll type with your desired armour set. You can beat this game by chugging Ironjar aromatics and spamming blackflame tornadoes if you want to see how LITTLE skill it takes.
If they fix nothing, I just hope the pvp content creators become loud enough to influence the change themselves. Even I've been making invasion content because of how much I love it. Love the content, man. I hope our cries for help dont go forever unnoticed
For those who don't watch his streams, Jeenine said that he's making his own souls-like pvp-focused game With all the experience and understanding he has of the genre and its systems, I feel like it might be a good hope we have of getting a new good pvp souls game to enjoy, although it might take a while
@@odium1954 it's not about accessibility but fun, balance and general diversity of tools given to players, concepts foraging to that clown. Take Miriam's Vanishing for example, he and his bootlickers cried like crazy over single, viable utility sorcery and now it's complete dog water. He has no clue about making a game let alone balancing it.
@@Nobody32990same for the backstep talisman, he don t understand why it was as good tools and change the gameplay for those Whant to play with it. So now it s broken..
I believe that due to the POPULAR demand of the main consumers of elden ring fromsoftware will remove the invasions and leave only a coliseum in elden ring 2 since if it worked nerfing the invaders to keep their MAIN audience happy they will do it again in elden ring 2
I've been trying to break the stigma of "Bad Red Man" since i started PvPing not too long ago. I was the same, I giga hated invaders. Now that I have a grip on PvP and how to duel, I love getting invaded and invading. I like to drop off gifts like consumables or runes before I fight the host so they don't feel like their time is 'wasted' by the bad red man. I also like to let wholesome noob hosts 'beat' me so they feel satisfaction for beating an invader, in hopes they won't avoid or hate them in the future. If only more people understood how invasion timers work.
I was an Elden Ring noob, so I never knew they had multiplayer in all the other games. I play offline only, but I do invade for Varres quest. Over and over since launch, and I usually lose, but I've won a few 2v1s and a 3v1. It just feels like an annoying part of a quest and not like a fun and exciting game mode. Two and a half years offline and I've never had the desire to try multiplayer. I don't even like the in-game invasions. I already met Edgar twice, why isn't he just at the shack when I get there? I talked to Varre multiple times, he gave me stuff, and picked my finger, but now I have to go to another dimension to kill him? It's so poorly explained and haphazardly shoved into the main game. It just feels like a tacked on afterthought. Even though I have no interest in multiplayer, I do hope they continue to tweak it and add new stuff to keep everyone else interested. If they ever add useful or unique in-game items and equipment to multiplayer I'll be all about it.
That's cute and all but all it takes is one dedicated gank squad to sour my taste. I stopped caring about that and fully embraced the bad red man energy, a salute emote is all you're getting from me in the best and honest conditions possible
Other than seamless which is a mod btw the invasion gameplay doesn’t add anything. It’s an outdated mechanic that they don’t know what to do with. I would rather them remove it then add more or attempt to fix it. Yes I know it “adds” pvp but sorry man if a mod has better multiplayer gameplay by a significant margin when it didn’t have invasions and is doing better job than you now, your gameplay implementation of said mechanic is bad and also useless. Especially when the time between getting invaded after killing an invader is damn near instant. That is why invaders are hated.
The only way is community. Red men across the lands between must band together and vocalize our issues with the system in place. It’s all we can do. I’m hoping in the future mods like seamless co-op on pc will be more possible on console in the future. I know it’s never happened with previous games but mods would benefit the pve players as well. If fromsoft won’t listen to ALL of the community , then let the community do it themselves.
Sadly, invaders tend to be very individualistic. It's almost part of the character type that would want invasions in the first place. They really suck at banding together for a common goal, by nature. It would have to be a really unprecedented moment of solidarity.
@@ianwilliams2632 individualistic? This far from the truth in my experience. I have a group on Xbox with over 70 people who are invaders. People in the chat offer strats and drop items to whoever needs them. All of us being invaders I'll add. Another point, go look at previous comments on Jon’s vids. Most invaders can agree a small change to the TT or allowing rewards for invasions/arena would be supported by all players and would get more people into it. One of the most asked questions I see from new players wanting to get into invasions is: “what do you get from invading when you win?” Most people’s response is because it’s fun. It’s not for a silly rune arc. So adding rewards in place could grab more casuals attention.
Im glad Fromsoft is making bank off of Elden Ring. They deserve every penny not just for this game but every previous title that has brought me joy. Butt i truly hope the mass appeal and diluted audience it has fostered doesnt spell the end of their unique approach to gane design and i wouldnt personally want another game of this scale from them.
I am more of a PvE player, but I do miss solo invasions. I think a good middle ground would be to allow for solo invasions within Legacy Dungeons. I’d say minor dungeons too, but it’s the legacy dungeons that have the layouts to make invasions interesting for both the player and the invader, coupled with the in game expectations that these places are more dangerous. I think it would allow for solo invasions without the inevitable annoyance of being suddenly knocked off of Torrent in the over world. I’d count “minor legacy dungeons” like Castle Ensis, Morne or Shaded Castle - basically, if it’s a unique locale yes (though I can imagine invasions in the larger tombs and forges could be fun too). Even for PvE players, the presence of invasions within a Legacy Dungeon would allow for much more variation when going through repeatedly, and I enjoyed slowly getting better at dealing with them in DS3, even if Irithyl invasions felt downright toxic sometimes
Hot take: Souls PVPers need to stop pretending the game is a serious PVP game. It has so many latency and balance issues it is silly to dump all that effort in. The game needs a full netcode overhaul, and I think they know that. The game did not sell a bazillion copies on the back of being an e-sports title. Claiming the devs don't play their own game is nonsense.
Exactly. The first thing that i hear when playing with friends in their first time playing is: "I hit the guy but i didn't count. Why?" Then the invader proceds to melt us both with two hits because i'm shit at PVP and can't defend my friend. Then i explain is the netcode and the latency, this instantly turns them off of trying to learn the PVP aspect of the game. I understand the PVPers, they want to feel rewarded with their skill, surpass the expectations of winning a fight that's biased to the other side. It all seems really fun and this is not sarcasm. I feel like is really unpleaseant to the invader to fight under these conditions like in the video, i think they just want a good fight and that's it. But with the current system, i don't want to be forced to fight a guy who is min/maxed/meta level who's gonna use various cheap tatics to beat me who's testing a completely unknow hammer for the first time. So when a invader get into our world, we always threat them with the most respect possible, using the bow emote, fighting fair with only 1v1. Utilizing this tactic usually end up getting me and my friend killed, but at least is a neat little interaction for the invader and us. From Software should really fix these problems with latency and netcode before focusing on the PVP.
If the devs actually invaded someone, got spawned in a middle of 3 mages spamming the most cancer spells and ashes of war on top of him just to instantly die and say "Yeah, that's fine", then God have mercy on their soul.
@@randomdeliveryguy This is saying the quiet part out loud. You want an advantage when invading like the other games. Invaders should be on the backfoot. I have no problem with invasions, and I casually invade sometimes, but it is painfully obvious when people complain about this they just want to be able to faceroll noobs all day. When I get ganked I say "yeah, I deserved that" because I did. I was the one who started the aggression.
people in ds3 still cry about estus canceling and other glitches to this day. like lmfao, ELDEN RING? ELDEN RING Will just stay the same... prolly the only game that got boring so fast.
Edit: ok, this invader vs cooper thing is just unreasonable. Invasions are a core mechanic, so is summoning. You have a right to Co-Op i have the right to invade you. End of story FFS I really don't think they will fix taunter's. All they will do is fixing bugs and fucking with the balance. Last patch is a great example of it. Backhand blades with new poise values are BEYOND broken
This late in the game there will be no fundamental changes. The only way I could see them doing it is with the VERY last patch. "fuck it, this is how the game will be forever, let's throw a bone to those who will still be around in 2 years". But it's not going to happen. ER is THE power fantasy, it's the game most PVE-centric of their catalogue. Everyone else is basically a nuisance to the devs.
@@ianwilliams2632 I mean the PVE is also completely broken so IDK. I can use a PVP build to do 10 000 damage to Radagon in one combo. Not even optimal damage stat distribution. Not even optimal aramour and tali setup. Lmfao
@@zwidowca1have you ever thought that it is the PvP crowd itself that has done this to the game. Meta all the fun out of everything. Optimize the fun out of everything. I think making an optimized build yourself can be fun. But 99.99% of people just look up a broken build and how to set it up… because it is broken. PvE is one thing, but PvP in ER is the most dog water PvP in any Fromsoft game I’ve played. More than half the people you run into are sweating their balls off running the most broken abused stuff and then they will flex on you like their god. Here is the PvP from a 10000 foot view. Find weapon that really long and go poke. Add bleed. Congrats you will destroy 99% of people if you or even remotely competent with your movement. Trash.
@@bigiron1990 Ah yes, because it is the PVP crowd that made the game. Because it is the PVP crowd that is responsible for bugs... Jesus dude... Because the meta is not made by the devs in the first place... Bruh not only do you not have a point, you are wrong. Yes the PVP is trash. It is simply the fault of devs drifitng away from what prior games were and focusing on PVE. Which in turn does not matter because PVE is also broken as feck. With hundreds of op builds and dumb item interactions or glitches.
To answer your question, I'm waffling between a few options: - Play Dark Souls 3, even with it's lower activity. To this day, it's still my favorite souls game. - Play some other games, even if they're offering a totally different experience. I've really been enjoying Remnant 2 - Maybe try some other chaotic melee-action games. I kind of bounced off of Chivalry 2, but I'm not opposed to exploring other options. What I don't plan on doing is sticking around for the Elden Ring PvP experience if nothing changes. My time is too valuable to be playing something that's equal parts frustrating and enjoyable (honestly, more the former sometimes.)
If you think about it, it fits with the dark souls theology. We're too powerful. How easy would it be if we allowed to invade a solo host or have 2x damage and defense if host was with a summon. It would be too fair.
I'm so tired about this pvp after thought that sometimes I think ER would be a better game if they just straight up remove invasions. That way we can stop bothering with this frustrating thing.
Honestly the solution is to find a way to make people who don't like PVP become excited when they get into PVP. Make PVP more rewarding and less punishing. Fromsoft is worryingly close to falling into the AAA gaming industry's trap of following trends and creating a more generic experience to satisfy the "larger demographic" (who are transient by nature, and don't usually continue to play beyond the limited attention they initially give the game at the beginning), essentially taking the easy way out, instead of leaning into the uniqueness of their games and extrapolating on the features that the Soulsborne community has fallen in love with over the years. Elden Ring makes me worried for the future of Fromsoft. If the core userbase begins to feel alienated, which is already happening, they may lose interest or stop paying attention. I definitely am feeling the alienation already. I remember when this happened to Halo, especially after Halo 5: Guardians. The developers completely lost sight of why people fell in love with their games to begin with, and they lost everything and most everybody. Almost 10 years later and they're still picking up the pieces.
Me and my friends play Fromsoft games for the multiplayer aspect of it, specially the PvP. ER was such a letdown. Its impressive it was made by the same people that did DkS 2 and DkS 3.
@@Nobody32990 People don't like to be humiliated, even if there is some objective reason for that. Reminder that you can't participate in invasions without hosts to invade. Don't humiliate players and then cry why they hate you.
You can pretend all the invaders just do it for the love of the game or "the hunt" as you put it, but that won't change that 99% of Invaders are showing up with the same boring one trick builds that were balanced months ago or spamming (insert oneshot build or braindead ash of war here). I play on console but I keep my ear to the ground and it's obvious that the overwhelming majority of pc players play seamless coop not just for a better coop experience but to not have to put up with the bullshit that is invaders. All y'all do when people bring legitimate arguments to the table is say the games too easy, I want chaotic pvp but all I run into is ganks and overleveled summons, play offline or don't coop, ect. You say telling invaders to go to the colosseum is missing the point but why do you think people gank, abuse taunters tongue, run around with overleveled summons ect? Because they don't want to deal with you. Fromsoft can add a whole separate invasion mode for the pve'rs that want to deal with your bullshit and the pvp players who actually enjoy the chaos of invasions instead of just copy+pasting what they read on reddit because imma keep it 100 with you majority of Invaders are just trolls with nothing better to do and no amount of repeating the same tired old "it embodies Fromsoft games and makes them better" will change that
i think the severe backlash from the community and complete indifference on the part of fromsoft has all but guaranteed someone else is going to pick up the torch and actually improve on the systems that already existed and were gutted for ER.
Just being back solo invasions bring back covenants and get rid of the wide variety of weapons I think the variety is the main issue, with so many different play styles balancing is challenging, I hope the next game there is mainly melee weapons with consumables acting as the main ranged option with an occasional ranged weapon and no shields
Elden ring pvp could have been the greatest out of the souls games, there are so many different factions that could have become covenants so much stuff they could have added to both enrich the pvp and co-op experience alike and yet we get nothing.my main gripe about pvp is that there is no incentive to do it, it is not the least bit rewarding because a single rune arc and some ointment is not worth fighting a host and his 2 summons for 15 mins. the only reason i still invade is because i like to and nothing more. i honestly think fromsoft made invasions horrible by design to discourage people from doing it because it seems that the community hates invaders and wants nothing to do with pvp because anywhere you complain about the state of invasions whether it be youtube or reddit or wherever the response you are always met with is from people saying that you deserve to have a horrible time and that they do not want you in their games and wish invasions were not a thing to begin with, or to just stay in the arena because you are horrible for simply wanting to use a system that has been in the series since the beginning.
i was typing “we wait” as you said it. You make the most out of it in the meantime. You can find new ways to play and enjoy the game, the sheer variety of the games allow for this. The experimentation itself is fun. (At least for me) The same thing overall happened to their Armored Core VI game.
I already moved on for my pvp fix, learning Tekken 8 now. Last time pvp was dead for me was DS1 in 2015 , moved on to Street Fighter 5 at that time and enjoyed 500 hours of SF5 which wasn’t the best fighting game by far but way better than souls pvp balance and lack of players to invade when then game was a ghost town
It's not too late Fromsoft, you can still up the player limit, you can still just ask the people who made the seamless coop and invasion mods if they would like to impliment it officially for credit and pay, you can still fix this, you can still make everyone happy.
We need more noise in union, a while back there was a major pvp update(most just wepaon balancing and the stuff) but i had heard G9 talk about how they had managed to get a hold of someone who took it to the fromsoftware team(i dont know how true this is as i haven't fact checked it myself) but i feel if Miyuzaki and/or the fromsoft team was more aware of the invasion standpoint they would be willing to expand upon the idea, sometimes it feels like they're listening, sometimes it feels like we're talking to a brick wall. Also if anyone could direct me to were i could help bring more awareness to the from team,let me know. I play on Xbox and as much as i would have no issue just installing seamless co-op on my computer, it would be so much better if these changes were implemented into the base game for all to enjoy across the platforms. I really enjoy souls pvp as its so unique and i havent been able to experience anything else like it in another game, please Miyuzaki, please fromsoft - hear us, we wish not to hinder that game but help develop it to its fullest potential - and this game has so much potential
My problem with the arena is there are no consequences. In a game all about consequences, the arena is meaningless. You get summoned in, spam your bullshit, blend up one player, and get melted by someone else. But then you just restart. No harm, no foul, until the timer runs out. It’s a fun few minutes in all the chaos, but it’s an empty fun that gets…boring. Really fast.
I feel like PvP has always been more of a back burner for from software, examples, des. Never added poise to anything, ds1 never fixed the easy backstabs, bloodborne, never fixed the s, etc. and I remember in an old interview, Miyazaki stated, the soul purpose of invasions, were just a fun idea of, another player, coming to fight you, and that’s it. No over powered other player, nothing truly geared to the invader or anything. And not to defend the guys that don’t like invaders, I just feel like, they don’t like jerk invaders, someone that’s gonna point down, or dungpie, or tbag them if they lose to the invader. Now to answer your question: I feel like absolutely nothing will happen, if they don’t change PvP lol us dedicated souls fans, will actively revisit, as well as invade in all the games, like myself lol sure the player count may go down a bit, but us fans will always be around. I’ll message after invasions, saying good game, and it would be to a player I’ve apparently fought 2 years ago, looking at the dates on the psn thread, since ps never deletes lol so nothing will happen if they don’t, in my humble opinion.
I just had an idea of pvp that only uses 4 player limit if it is indeed what is only possible in ER due to performance issues, So 3 gankers inabled TT (which cannot be turned off.) Then 1 invader comes in. Then the invader manages to kill 1 phantom. The vacant slot will prioritize another invader but the moment the second invader comes in the 2 gankers left will have a level 1 buff ( lore: because they got angry their brother died) purpose to embolden their spirit to continue fighting and they have a light red aura around their character to show of and make them braver. Then when only host is left against 2 invaders he will have another buff(adrenalin buff more intense aura to make him feel even more powerful like a boss thus encourage him to fight till the end.) blues come in and out and buffs react as intended) Thus 4 player limit but more dynamic and interesting battle.
I just found out about the taunters 👅 and wanna start using it while playing solo. Can anyone explain how to best use it while im playing? Do i need to have alot of the summoning pools unlocked to get invaded alot, etc.
Can you really blame FromSoft? Cause the last time they made a genuine and honest effort towards putting the multiplayer experience first, the most vocal members of the community blasted it into oblivion. The majority of these complaints coming from either a lack of understanding on how certain mechanics work or simply parroting disinformation that they're spoon fed. And despite these complaints, the game is still considered the best PvP in the series. I honestly won't be surprised if FS completely drops PvP as a whole in the future, especially with the success of the Seamless Coop Mod.
I don't want to incentivize releasing unfinished products but considering Elden rings scope and size as well as Fromsofts reputation. I would gladly pay 20 bucks for another DLC to improve on storylines, PVP, etc. Whatever it is that he wanted to do but didn't have enough time.
Well it circles back to all of the crazy meta builds and the ashes of wars, and the ash summons. FSW has built ER to be a very streamlined, casual focused souls game. Make no mistake, it is a souls game. It feels like a souls game and it plays like one. It’s all in tact. They just added a lot of stuff to make the baseline “souls experience” more accessible. And that’s the problem. Because in doing so, they took the coddling to higher levels, which is where PvP comes in. They protect the new player and make the veterans suffer. The veterans suffer in pve because if they opt out of using the meta and the ash summons, every boss feels like Yhorm without the stormcaller. And if veterans want to partake in PvP , they’re met with gank squads and are at the mercy of 3 people spamming AoWs at them for the 4 seconds it takes to kill them. We have two potential outcomes. Either the next game will go back to formula , or this process of coddling is going to get worse.
I wish that they give us back covenants so that cooperators and hosts will ATLEAST have some form of sympathy why people invade rather than “oh this guy just wants to kill me for fun. What a butt.” If covenants are back, atleast everyone would have some incentives invading: armor and weapons locked behind PvP rewards. It may not remove the hatred but atleast it can garner some sympathy from other players as to why invaders invade other than the sport of death
I got Elden on launch day as a total Dark Souls noob. I thought I was buying a single player RPG, I had no idea Fromsoft has put multiplayer in all of the Dark Souls games. Now I understand how important multiplayer is to these games and that it's what keeps them alive for so long after launch. It does sound like it was a lot fun in those older games, but it feels like a tacked on afterthought in Elden Ring to me. I play offline only, I don't even want to see ghosts, blood stains, or messages, but I do go online and invade three people for Varres quest line every time. I've invaded close to or over a hundred times. Usually I lose because I'm a PvE build and I'm outnumbered. I have won a few 2v1s and a 3v1 but it just feels like an annoying part of a quest, not a fun and exciting game mode. Chasing people around for Rune Arcs and bragging rights just feels like a waste of time to me. I need useful in-game items to make it feel worth my while. Winning or losing against randoms isn't accomplishing much in my eyes when there's no reward or recognition for it. I do hope they continue to tweak and add things to it. I realize how important multiplayer is to people. They've been pretty good at listening so far with Elden Ring, so I'm sure it'll get better before it gets worse.
I really don’t think they’ll ever put more focus on the PvP for Elden ring other than those “small adjustments” I would probably not play another game for over half a year if they did 6 player invasions. But it’s been over 2 years and at this point Iv given up hope. I pray one day they make a souls game with multiplayer as the focus. Advertised as the PvP experience from the beginning. But a man can only dream.
If nothing changes then this just isn’t a game I see myself playing for years to come besides a visit to the PvE. I really really hope that the state of Elden Ring PvP isn’t a sign of its implementation in future titles. The way that the game is catered to hosts and co-op with PvP feeling like an afterthought makes me think they will just abandon it. They have a record of tweaking PvP in each game, so maybe there is a chance that they can improve it next time around, but that’s wishful thinking. No covenants, lackluster arena, anime-style weapon arts that are unbalanced for PvP, and more of an emphasis on player power fantasy that doesn’t mesh with the aesthetic of invasions. It all feels like a trend towards removing the mechanic, as it’s been totally neutered in this game.
Literally all they need to do is release solo invasions again, and remove rune rewards for severing out invaders. Tie it to the great rune being active. At least then we can sever out any gank squads and afk farmers and take comfort in knowing their lobbies will be ghost towns with no invaders sticking around to die
You mean the three guys that wasted his time and were too scared to follow one invader into the level, then got absolutely curb stomped when it was 1v1? I bet you can't even win a 2v1, let alone a 3v1.
Remain sad, forever?
Par for the course when it comes to souls players. We are worthless. Can't even die right.
@@ianwilliams2632gives me conniptions.
@@ianwilliams2632gives me conniptions
@@ianwilliams2632Gives me conniptions.
Or just die protecting waifu Leda
DS2 was flawed in many ways, but man do I miss it's PvP. Covenants where such a fun feature and the Arenas were so much more fun.
I went through a bad breakup around DS2. Many hours just day drinking in the Rat Covenant using illusion and acid pots. I regret nothing.
I think asking invaders to go to the coliseum also fundamentally misunderstands invasions. Not to say the coliseum system could not scratch that itch if it had separate multiplayer maps for teams to brawl in AND had good, clear matchmaking with ease of access and no long queue times with rewards. But a boring, flat pit of sand does not an invasion replacement make.
@@videocrowsnest5251 100% every invasion is unique and why elden ring had alot of probs i am still having a blast with it
Definitely this. Even as a PvP player who’s dabbed in some invasions, there is something special about learning the layout of somewhere like Irithyl or Lothric Castle and using it to your advantage. Solo invasions in places like Leyndell, Stormveil or the Shadow Keep would be epic.
3:50 I played elden ring without psn so when I heard people complain about invaders I assumed they could join your world at any time or place. In reality only you can let them in. The invaders are a counter balance like the extra health bosses get
Yep. Except in previous games they were forced on you in interesting ways. Dark souls 3 for example. Like rune arcs there were embers. Using one increased your ho by almost 30% and allowed summons. The catch was then you are open to invasion so players could steal your ember for themselves. To force players to be introduced you were automatically embedded whenever you kill a boss and wander to the next area.
@@xenosayain1506 Except in DS3 if you never summoned anyone you were placed at the very bottom of the priority bracket because it wanted to fill lobbies that have more than 1 player in them first, resulting in you potentially waiting several hours before actually getting Invaded for using an Ember.
Also I think DS3 pvp was Miyazaki saying ‘Okay I know you guys who have been fans of Dark Souls since DS1 want pvp.. here’s all out 6 man pvp with purples thrown in this your swan song”. And then pvp added to Elden Ring was just tacked on because meh they’ve still got some legacy dark souls fans left they have to appease but now we don’t matter cause 10x more new people came into the series with Elden Ring and us OG Dark Souls players are now the minority
This is kinda the reason you don't want the thing you like to get too popular.
Most people played ER because of how awesome dark souls was.
Most people played ER because they HEARD how amazing DS was. Hell, ER's sales are like 2x times bigger than the entire DS series' combined; if we account for multiple-game buyers, the OG Dark souls community is like 1/4 of ER's community, AT BEST.
I hate to be that guy but they havent fixed TT in 2 years. Its a chosen feature at this point. There is nothing wrong with invasions bejng tied to co-op. The issue lies in just a few key things.
-TT obviously
-The player limit making most invasions 3v1 instead of 2v1 and 3v2
-and invasions in the open world. If they limited it dungeons it would be fine.
DS3 perfected invasions imo. They just have to go back to that system.
Miyazaki really likes making something from scratch, and with stuff they've never tried before. He's not a fixer, he's a creator. So we're waiting for the next souls game for any kind of good system, sadly. If they put invasions back in at all...
Miyazaki not playing his games after creating them is a flaw.
How is he supposed to understand the feedback he receives if he cannot experience it first hand. This is necessary in game dev. Games are played, not just watched.
This is the reason some of the changes feel like an after thought. Its the reason why changes to pvp are taking so long and are so little, and explains why the overall balance of the game is so disconnected within itself. We have weapons that are straight up overtuned and others that feel meaninglesss.
Except most dungeons suck lol. The best places are the castles and some of the overworld places.
The problem is the overworld itself. Big, open and empty with little wag to traverse and few shortcuts.
Elden ring being as big open world as it is was one of the worst things they could have done
Also to block them from running to the boss fight in order to run away from invaders.
@@TritamusYeah, block the people who didn't choose to be invaded, their only way out that doesn't involve a quit out. Ladies and gentlemen, the easiest way to say you're the toxic PvP player everyone hates without stating it outright.
shadow of ds3
100%
Bruh If you miss dark souls 3 so much, come back to dark souls 3 😂
Shadow of ds2
Real. I hope we get something on the level of pontiffs spot one day
@@ismaellucas960 seriously people still play the game.
I wouldnt be surprised if they dont bother with invasions next game. They really half-assed invasions and multiplayer in general in ER, so if they just let it go it wouldnt be shocking. Seeing as how much they love making these flashy garbage movesets like backhand blades now, perhaps it wouldnt be a worthwhile experience regardless...
You're spot on. I feel the next souls games will have no PVP, or limited entirely to arenas, if they take inspiration from this era... and since ER made them so much money, they will gravitate in that direction.
Sekiro had no multiplayer experience and it’s still one of the best games ever made. However seeing a game that is a spiritual successor to ds with no invasions would be very disappointing
Correct, I think this is the last game invasions will even have been implemented. From Soft has been moving further and further away from invasions since Dark Souls 1
@@calebheisserer5391sekiro isn’t really a souls game though. Or at least it’s the most detached from the other games. Bloodborne multiplayer system is actually very similar to elden rings but bloodborne also wasn’t really known for its multiplayer in the same way that ds2 and ds3 were
That being said, I'm a huge fan of souls multiplayer and I think it would be a massive shame if they got rid of invasions personally. I had a blast invading in the other souls games and I'll admit Elden Ring probably felt the worst for invasions, but maybe we'll get lucky and they'll put more effort in next time.
As a developer who is currently visualizing the role of a product manager at from software, the reason you feel unheard is twofold:
- priorities, obviously
- there is no factual basis for assuming that the PvE community will definitively not have negative backlash. There is no way for them to test this without some kind of “beta” like release, which not everyone will take part in and feedback will skewed. This is their most commercially successful product and focusing on a subset of a community is a major risk whether this community chooses to acknowledge it or not.
They would need to release a game similar to souls that is marketed for being PvP engaging. And it would need to succeed tremendously to be implemented in other parts of their studio.
You are being heard and so is the positive feedback for seamless coop. But you will not get your prayers answered here in Elden Ring. it will be weighed and considered in future releases, where it may be determined to be a risk, yet again.
As someone before me said… remain sad forever 🤷♂️
I agree I think this guy is demanding without understanding
I like Fromsoftware because they made the games they want, not what the market wants.
If they abandon that, they abandon what many people like about the games and the developer.
I don‘t understand how fixing or changing some in-game items is that hard to ask.
"If they can give me a good reason to not implement these changes..."
Basically, it boils down to;
What business sense does it make for From Software to put additional time, effort, and funding into this game when it has already achieved a majority of its lifetime sales? What business case is there for this? How much will it cost, how much income will it generate, and how much profit will be made from this project? Unfortunately, there is simply no solid business case for implementing these propositions at this point in Elden Ring's lifecycle.
As players, we would love for it to happen, but at the end of the day, money is what moves companies and people, not goodwill or exposure. People don't work for free, so unless you are proposing to fund this initiative yourself, the incentives are simply just not aligned for this to happen.
It would make more business sense for From Software to take this feedback and consider implementation in their next product that would actually generate new sales and profit.
No passing off your most dedicated fanbase is pretty good long time businesses strategy.
@@Nobody32990
I don't disagree with your statement that it would be a good long-term business strategy to maintain the goodwill your most dedicated fanbase.
Keyword, long-term.
It would make more business sense for From Software to take this feedback and consider implementation in their next product that would actually generate new sales and profit. Which would be the long-term play.
@@Nobody32990
I agree with your assessment that maintaining the goodwill of your most dedicated fanbase is a good long-term business strategy.
Key word: Long-term.
Unless there is a real possibility that the "most dedicated fanbase" will go out and purchase millions of dollars worth of additional copies of Elden Ring, a game they already own, the only real long-term play here for Fromsoft to make is to take this feedback and consider implementation in their next product that would actually generate new sales and profit.
@@Nobody32990 I agree with your assessment that maintaining the goodwill of your most dedicated fanbase is a good long-term business strategy.
Keyword; Long-Term.
Unless said "most dedicated fanbase" will go out and purchase an additional few million dollars worth of copies of Elden Ring if these changes are implemented, there is no business case to continue to fund and work on major updates to Elden Ring.
On the other hand, the Long-term play for Fromsoft here would be to take this feedback and consider implementation in their next product that would actually generate new sales and profit.
@@Nobody32990it is a laughable minority of full-time working dads at this point. They are insignificant.
Honestly hot take but people wouldn’t put up with the awful netcode elden ring has if invasions weren’t as uniquely fun as they are. I’m not interested in the arena because that’s an experience that can be gotten better in a million other places but the only other game I reliably can get invasions in is ds3. Fromsoft is seriously missing out on a lot by ignoring just how special and fun invasions really are just imagine if the game didn’t have these giant glaring issues with its multiplayer
It's what lured me in. Ds3 was my first souls game and I thought there was no multiplayer until I was invaded in the undead settlement. He fought me, toyed with me, then gave me tips on improving my build. I then became hyped and optimized to hell to be ready for invaders until I had the confidence to invade myself. by the time I got to farron swamp I was ready for pvp and the faction area made it even cooler seeing a red, watchdog, and me brawl it out. It was one of the most unique pvp scenarios elden ring players will never see.
That's not a hot-take. If there was literally anyone else who put out a souls-like with invasions with decent balance that had a good net code, I'd drop Elden Ring in a heartbeat.
@@josephcola9662 agreed. The style is so unique. If another dev can get it right I have no problem bouncing.
Netcode isn't the problem, they just keep making invasions worse for the invader every new release. It's mostly also the balance or lack thereof
@@KerrangR it's partially the problem. Fromsoft insists on peer to peer connections with very poor ways of resolving desync.
I'm no PVPer, but I feel your pain. It's sorta how I feel in regard to boss design, that FromSoft is moving in a direction away from the type of things I first fell in love with all the way back in DS1.
You mean the extremely slow and unrewarding to learn moveset that made the vast majority of DS1 bosses one dimentional ? The most loved boss in DS3 is Artorias of the Abyss, boss design in Elden Ring is Artorias with more depth.
@@ni9274: if the combat was so "unrewarding" it wouldn't be the ground breaking inspiration for an entire genre nor would RUclips be so full of video essays about how DS1 changed people's lives.
I don't agree that the arena was made to segregate invaders away from pve players. That seems far fetched since they could just not have put invasions in the game to segregate invaders. As to the separated pve/pvp balancing that was definitely meant to appease pve people. But I also imagine that we would not have gotten as many pvp balance changes if they hadn't made that separation.
In regards to the nature of souls pvp, I thing we are eventually going to have to admit that Elden Ring is not a souls game. ER has similar mechanics to souls games, but ER is likely intended to be a different sort of game in name, and function. The pvp aspect was likely added for mostly tradition, and was never intended to be like souls.
I agree Elden ring is not dark souls it's elden ring it may be a evolution of the formula but it is not it's predecessors I don't get why people demand so much more from Dark souls those games are still playable and in the case of Dark souls 3 I think dark souls has come to a satisfying ending I say out with the old in with the new don't let the water stagnate and rot
Screw this I’m just going to seamless, it’s literally got the bare minimum for pvp changes and it’s miles ahead of vanilla, co-invasions, no blues, 6 player sessions, amazing co-op, incentives to invade (you can use rune arcs in invasions making them more valuable), and incentives to leave invasions on (gives upgrade materials and other nice loot upon killing them) AND has amazing connections with no barriers or invisible walls. Just the better experience overall.
Hackers
@@flyingmagicalguy I’ve ran into 5 cheaters in the last 3 weeks, still worth it.
Is it even active
For me, Elden Ring is my first and only souls game, and as someone who loves the pvp and loves to invade, seeing Fromsoft tossing invasions to the side like an unwanted toy just hurts. It sucks enough constantly wandering into ganks, cheaters, exploiters, and afk farmers, but the thought that From isn't even trying to fix these things but instead relegating invaders to the side, sweeping them under the shelf, ignoring us to the point of enabling all the awful crap we invaders already have to go through just to maybe find one match of playable, chaotic, fun pvp just hurts. Hopefully Fromsoft realizes that it's the PvP that keeps a game alive, and don't just leave invaders to rot.
See it from the possitve site if there next game is better pvp our skills will be brutal because of all the bs we are dealling with😂😂
@@thrashbroI hope their next game is nothing like elden ring or dark souls though. I would prefer something more akin to bloodborne where the style of game is very similar but the combat and gameplay loop are very different. And I honestly think that’s what we’re going to get
If only you played ds2/ds3 in their prime. Ah those were good times. The issue with elden ring is that from the ground up the game is not built with multiplayer in mind like those games were. The one and only sign you should need to recognize that is the lack of covenants. Especially considering there are so many factions in elden ring that could’ve had a covenant attached to it, the prime examples being: recusants, bloody fingers, hunters, golden order fundemantalist, hunters of death, duskborn, carians, and probably many more. What’s funny to me is that the volcano manor quest line serves as a pseudo covenant by having you hunt down NPCs and giving you rewards for it, similar to how an actual covenant in ds3 would give you rewards for winning a certain amount of invasions.
But having freindly co op covenants alongside hostile invasion covenants ads a rivalry and depth to the multiplayer that gives the game increased replay ability as well as more immersive role playing for your character.
Brother the pvp is not what's keeping this game alive
@@NoBumBuh depending on how long it is till we get a new game it eventually will be. There was a 6 year gap between ds3 and elden ring and I can tell you that the only reason people were playing that game in 2019-2022 was because of the multiplayer and invasions, otherwise everyone would’ve been playing sekiro
Thank you for continuing to make these videos. Fromsoft NEEDS to know how important the invasion system *they* made truly is.
personally I think that the last patch was dogshit. it didn't do nearly enough to fix what's not working properly. I wonder where they get their feedback from
i agree entirely
Elden ring sub
It nerfed Swift Slash, Blindspot, Spread Crossbow which were the most complained about things before the patch, it fixed chainsaw, it apparently fixed invasions spawn, it made light greatsword and hand to hand go from mediocre to meta and buffed many underwhelming spells and AOW.
Everybody was asking for Swift Slash, Blindspot and Spread Crossbow nerf what do you mean ?
Did you expect this patch to fix netcode, player limit or add covenants ? In that case all Elden Ring patches are dogshit.
@@ni9274 I was expecting them to finally patch the Holy Damage bug that prevents buffs from working properly in online play, for starters. That shit has existed since launch, and it's speculated that it carried over from Dark Souls 3 since Holy Damage is literally using Dark Damage as a base.
you've got to organize something like that website that advocated for pvp changes back in the base game
We already have it. Patch 1.10 is child of that advocacy.
@@Nobody32990Link?
I hear you but it’s supply and demand my guy. Also I feel like more importantly in order to appease the annoyance and often “grief” caused by invaders they would have to first change summoning cooperator mechanics . The amount of time I wasted rejoining my friend (host) who got smoked by a twink throwing consumables is enough to make any average player say “this sucks”. If you’re joined by password you should just stay linked.
The fact that the gank fight at the end of the DLC proved you can stay linked to the host just makes the lack of it for the rest of the game feel worse
For those who don't know, if you lay down your summon sign for the gank fight against Miquella's followers and the host dies in the fight but you survive you stay in their world because the fight is treated like an invasion
Not only is this a slap in the face to co-op enjoyers who deserved to have this as a feature the whole time, it also proves that if they were to increase player count it would make co-op invasions (invading as a team with your friend) technically possible
God the multiplayer could have been so much better
@@PhalisoBringerOfDoom I didn’t know this but boy does that burn my britches
I miss the days of Dark Souls, where there was no distinction between pvper and pver, just souls players because at the end of the day you had to engage with online (invasion in particular) in some way or the other (we were encouragd to do so as well). Removal of solo invasions and 6 players in multiplayer are the biggest fukc ups of Fromsoft to date.
They removed solo invasions in ds2...
The only time invasions seemed 'balanced was ds3' and I do agree they just should have kept that system.
But as an elden ring enjoyed I enjoy the chaos that is open world pvp.
I expect a few balance patches and nothing else.
Hopefully the next fromsoft soulslike is more intense and finally tuned..
Bb2!?!?
@@InvaderZed they never removed solo invasions in DS2 lmao
I Went on dark souls 3 today, first with my low level build and put on watchdog covenant and I was nonstop invading.. then I went to pontiff with my meta build and I was shocked to see how many people were playing I had back to back 3v3 fights and it reminded me just how much elden ring dropped the ball. Honestly ds3 had more activity then elden ring and that speaks volumes.. I was on PlayStation by the way.
I love how you're talking about broken PVE bullshit affecting PVP just as that phantom is drilling into you with the most anime lighting crap ash of war I've ever seen (around 2:30). This is Elden Ring. THIS. Is. Elden Ring. Forever. I've gone back to DS3.
Looks like a very well written video though, as always. Arena as CAGE is brilliant. I'm afraid most will probably just keep playing ER until a new game comes out, because of population.
DS3 pvp on pc still populated?
@@dylanmaloy6646there’s a good amount of people. I’ve been invading at lv 100 and there’s a ton of people in the dlc and the pvp areas. Wex dust also helps a ton for invasions at any level
More and more so, thanks to the shit experience ER has left us with.
" the most anime lighting crap ash of war I've ever seen" How is this more anime than the weapons skills of the Frayed Blade, the Ringed Knight Paired Greatswords, the Friede's Great Scythe, the Splitleaf Greatsword, Gael's Greatsword ? How is doing a triple backflip with two giants sword while releasing fire wave not more anime than doing a grounded spinny attack with some lightning effect ?
Fromsoft always made anime looking ashes of war, what you see in this DLC isn't more anime than what was in Ringed City.
Also this specific AOW isn't hard to counter, you just need to dodge in and it will completely miss you.
@@ni9274 The anime bullshit definitely started with TRC. It also introduced shitty lore into the game, retconning a lot of DS1&2's meaningful ideas. DS3 is far from perfect, and has a few missteps or even backsteps. I consider that to be where the rot began, and it fully flowered in Elden Ring. But even the stupidest looking weapon arts were mostly tactical and not overtuned like in ER. I'm not a DS3 fanboy, I just think it was less absurd than ER.
Honestly its fair to ask form some updates on the pvp aspect but trying to take down the pve aspects is not it, specially cause most of the experience is pve, if it felt like playing with a broken sword against all the pve content and later the pvp is amazing many people would not care and drop the game because most of the charm of this game is their different zones with different enemies and most of all bosses, many people might join an invasion as either an invasor or a blue from time to time but its not their whole expectation of this game.
I believe the change to divide pve and pvp was a good idea cause it made the possibility of nerfing a weapon skill or magic/incantation that might be to strong in pvp but in pve its good, somewhat decent or in some scenarios really bad already.
The game isnt really targetted to a pvp audience, for example the trailers explore the world the atmosphere and the enemies and weapons you might get in a new entry or a new dlc, and many people that react to it always say: "Damn what was that place,weapon or boss?" they never say: "i wonder how that will be in pvp"
I think your points are somewhat valid but you make more damage to your cause by attacking the opposite side instead f trying to appeal to them to help you.
Dark souls 3 is for reds. Elden ring is for those who call the blues.
Nice.
I'd say Dark Souls 2 is for the reds
@@MarkerMurkersadly it's dead, and DS3 is the next best thing.
@@KerrangR Yeah, I'm lucky to have been playing these games for 10 years. Got more than my money's worth in memories and laughs
@@MarkerMurker I'd say ds2 is for duelists
Yep, people tend to bind coliseum and invasion in the same box, yet they're extremely different. I like coliseum but the arena is so restricted, in invasion I can make use of my environment even if I'm outnumber but it feel more enjoyable.
While I agree that their focus is clearly not on PvP, and they shy away from it more and more with each souls/elden ring game, I think you're being a bit unfair to say they haven't taken any advice or made any concessions for PvP players. We did get the wex dust change to invasion items patched in, and while the PvP/PvE balance split was largely for PvE players to not have their toys taken away by balancing them, we have seen a number of PvP specific balance and mechanical changes to player tools.
But yeah, it's obvious that very few of the people involved in making decisions play the PvP at all.
You know what I realized? Elden Ring is not a game. It's an interactive cinematic choose your own adventure story full of toys. They didn't design this to be a game - they designed set pieces and characters to fill them, they created themes and narrative to express them, the created weapons and enemies to be slain by them, but at no point in this process did they give any real consideration to what this would feel like after the novelty of these things wore off nor what this would feel like as the enemy being slain - the invader. They wanted to make stuff that was cool! They succeeded. There's more laser beams and anime moves in this game than the are dopamine receptors in the brain, probably. They aren't changing the core issues because they see Elden Ring as a success. Which in my mind can ONLY be because they don't see the issues. You're right, they don't engage with their games the way we invaders do. Even so, MANY balance choices have *shocked* me. Look at the spread crossbow or swift slash on DLC release and tell me with a straight face they know what they're doing lmao I dare you. Nothing has done more harm to my perception of the competency of their balancing skills than divine bird feathers though. It doesn't make sense experientially, it doesn't make sense numerically, it's like it was balanced entirely on intuition and vibes and never tested once. It's so bad it gives me secondhand embarrassment - like you really thought THIS was worth putting in the game as is? The same game which has bestial sling?
Honestly, the thing we need to push for most is From hiring some kind of dedicated PvP QA team. Someone to test this stuff - before it's released. Clearly nothing like that exists right now, and clearly there is a communication boundary between From and the PvP community. Moving forward, I'm afraid to say I genuinely *do not look forward* to PvP in future titles unless or until they establish a meaningful internal change. Maybe next time will be better, or maybe it won't, but under current design paradigms, it doesn't seem worth getting my hopes up. Elden Ring is a mess. A mess I love, a mess I've spent three thousand hours in. But it's a damn mess. I'm making the transition to seamless coop soon and not looking back.
Tldr, its a game
I feel like while a plethora of feedback will make FromSoft notice the PvP community and the abhorrent state of multiplayer, nothing short of a solid framework, detailing what needs to be done and how, will give us something that is satisfactory. One of the largest examples I think about is how a player named Gabri made an entire video detailing a poise-rework, and then eventually an update came out following their rework to a T to the point where it did not seem like mere coincidence. We need to come up with something similar, as either a community or as individuals, and push the shit out of it.
Luckily, we already have some examples of some reworks, both in idea and in practice. Seamless is a working example of a multiplayer overhaul: I have heard there are also plans in the works for co-invasions. Then there's the one that I have shilled for time and time again, _which may or may not have to do with my hand in creating it. Have you checked it out by the way?_ I have changed some of my thoughts since then as it still needed more time to cook, but that rework was designed with the idea of leaving most of the intended asymmetry in for PvErs while preventing players from exploiting it.
This and more importantly, translate it into Japanese so Fromsoft can actually read it
big reminder to everyone to not be too disappointed in 1.13: the patch had to be released asap due to an error in the credits where some people were erraneously not credited, so hopefully next patch will be the big one(but who knows when we'll get it)
They didn't even get the people in the credit in this patch.
@@Yobolight ...
???????
but they literally said "asap next patch"... wtf.
@@YobolightIt was stated in the patchnotes, did they not do it?
@@Mr-Hakim “Correction of end credits
In update 1.12, an error was included in the credits of the game.
This issue will be corrected in the next update.”
Says next patch.
My hopes & prayers for a truly impactful change to Elden Ring multiplayer is quickly dying from each new patch invasions isn’t seen as part of the game anymore.
I’m afraid of the future for new games that invasions might be extinct or forbidden by the mighty PvE overlords then game will be extremely shallow & boring no longevity.
These videos still give me optimism and nostalgia to better days.
Same, on all counts. It's why I've just gone back to DS3. A little less activity, but much more fun and balanced.
@@ianwilliams2632 My view of Elden Ring that it was design and release this way & the final cut vision with no covenants which is tragic and complete slaughter of multiplayer in entirety.
I don’t completely dislike the game kinda just missing some huge gameplay mechanics felt like a downgrade compared too prior entries!
If we don't get the changes we need, I'm simply moving on. And that is what is likely going to happen. Your channel and comments have been a goldmine of good suggestions for fromsoft. So it's not like they aren't feasible suggestions, they just aren't listening. Mods can add a lot of life to most video games imo, but console companies and game developers are holding that back. I think if elden ring pvp heads and modders put their collective braincells together they could make a pvp focused mod to rival seamless co-op. Ultimately I think that we need cross play and possibly mods in order to make future FS titles have more longevity. That is, if the design trend keeps going this direction. But it needs more than that to have real longevity, like a number of the multiplayer suggestions people have been ranting and raving for. At current, almost nothing really promotes longevity in this game besides the size of the world itself, and the amount of gear one could "potentially" make builds out of.
seReason is, Myazaki doesnt like pvp. He kept it just for the lulz but I, as other people in here, belive they wont keep invasion mechanics in their next games. Its a shame, me and my friends only buy Fromsoft games for the multiplayer. We didnt bother with that Sekiro because of that. Simply put, the PvE aspect of ER is a 7 at most. Its the invasion mechanic that makes fromsoft games unique.
I think no one inside fromsoftware speaks English
Can you translate for them pls and ty
@@turbotegs2102 I’ll try
HOW have they not figured out to not invade hosts who are near boss arenas?????? seriously
We as a player base need to make support tickets that explain to Bandai Namco/Fromsoft that the multiplayer experience is terrible for invaders. We need change. Elden Ring could be the BEST multiplayer experience with very little effort
Not gonna happen. The game is done, and not even a single unpaid intern will work on it further. See you in 5 years in the next game, if that game will have any PvP in it.
I don't think we are getting any changes, the game is done. 😢
Yup, maybe a minor balance patch here and there but nothing else.
Pvp might be done, people will still play cause its a great game. We don't really give a fuck about invading.
@@serg4308 na when tourist are gone, after 6 months it will be like ds1 remastered with 1 to 2 thousand player per month.
@@RaymanJob thats fine. Its 2 years old.
@@serg4308 fun fact even now after 8 years, Ds3 has 8 to 10 thousands player per day.
If they dont want to change invasions, at least change the colosseum and add incentives to it like rune arcs and better maps....
Too difficult for them to take existing chunks of the map and create pvp arenas apparently...
It would be better if you got awarded dragon smithing stones, starlight shards, or even crafting materials
*Totally agree with you on this, Farengar!* 👍
Elden ring has multiple ways to remove invaders when playing co-op.
The first thing is fogwalling, like the fact that the host can just IGNORE the Invader and click to the fog wall then,
Gone. No more bad red man.
Also the only thing that the game is asking you is to kill an invader, then you have 15 minutes invasions-free (unless the togue is active).
Also you have the possibility of an help from Blues, W I T H N O S P A W N C O O L D O W N S, meaning that you can get infinite help immediately, over and over.
Only to kill a red man that wanted to play the game in a completely different way.
I want to believe the possibility that they're waiting the DLC to be consumed, only to give a PVP update (like the colosseum one) with 6 or more players in invasions.
All of that to continue to remain Elden Ring popular for more months and the future.
I hope so.
I love the potential the PVP of this game has, will be a shame if it'll go to waste.
I wish I could submit this video to Bandai Namco, but you spend too much time complaining and not enough time giving a concise argument for the changes you want. I agree with the changes you recommend - please make a video that’s suitable for making the case.
I guess I’ll wait for another game yeah,honestly winning invasions does not amount to much imo,not like in bloodborne for example for numerous reasons I don’t have the patience to list here.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if the next game does not have PvP at all,or if it’s even worse than this,they just want to make pve games now bc the casuls bring in the money ig.
I’m afraid we’ll be ignored regardless.Its been two years or so and still nothing has changed.
I’m sorry for sounding so pessimistic but there’s little to change my mind about this atm.
get these videos condensed into a transcript and translated, send them over to fromsoft, promote these videos on any Elden ring subreddit you find, our initiative will definitely help, but you are the big RUclips man with influence in the end
Also 10:55 theres your reason why invasions are shunned by many and apparently now even the developers, the problem, the solution and how you can contribute are all in this video but not in the nonsensical whines but in the gameplay its right there why no one except invaders get a kick out of invasions in ER
Maybe FromSoftware doesnt have anyone in authority who invades, and it's just a few lower level staff who invade often. They don't have enough voice/clout to make any difference in decision making, which sucks but it's also just the reality of hierarchy.
DS1 had this down perfect. When i got good enough i only invaded people who had been indicted. I saw it as sweet revenge and i felt zero guilt taking their ears anyway i could. Nothing will ever beat seeing that message, "The guilty pay the price!"
My idea would be to create a separated pontiff like island, that would function as a pvp zone with raised possible player count to 6 which would serve as a less restricted arena with fluid invasions and summons that would operate similarly to well known ds 3 pvp spots. Since fromsoft doesnt seem to want to change the multiplayer model for the overworld they could at least do that to ensure longevity, since pvp was always what made souls games live past their expected time and seemed to be the end goal for every single one of my playthroughs.
I think this whole game is absolutely hilarious. They completely gutted the PvP experience in favor of people who complain the game is too hard. Souls games are not hard. When the game has given you the ability to level everything to 99, the game is, by definition, as hard as you make it. It's only hard when you stay in PvP brackets while trying to PvE. There are so many ways to level a character to max, it's absolutely bonkers that anyone can say the game is hard.
Miyazaki himself has stated that they pushed the envelope in order to make this game as hard as possible.
Levels alone do not make you powerful. You can have 60 Vigor and get all that depleted by Malenia in NG. Damage scales from weapon upgrades.
There are a myriad of buffs for sure but they mean nothing if you lack the skill to execute them.
You do have a point that the easy mode exist in the form of the mimic tear, but that does not take the fact that the game took some questionable design choices.
To add, I think they gutted invasions due to not knowing how to properly implement them well with the open world.
Their engine can have some serious bugs so maybe there is a tech reason as to why they had to do this.
For example it caught my attention that it took them two years to finally allow Torrent to be summoned in the Elden Beast fight.
@@lionheart4424 Good points.
I really think ER was a botch from the start. Covid ruined what was probably a great initial idea. Something more Souls-like turned more and more ambitious, with less and less effective communication between teams thanks to lockdowns and other problems.
@@lionheart4424 False. Levels are directly tied with how powerful you are. Stats scale the weapon damage. Stats allow spell use. Stats scale sorc/incant boost. Stats determine how many rolls one may commit to. Stats determine carry weight, by proxy also determine roll type with your desired armour set. You can beat this game by chugging Ironjar aromatics and spamming blackflame tornadoes if you want to see how LITTLE skill it takes.
I just hope they get the balance of weapons in a reasonable state. Elden ring is for the casual pve player that’s all it’ll ever be
DLC Bosses are the hardest souls bosses ever made by Fromsoft, it's definitely not for casual pve players
If they fix nothing, I just hope the pvp content creators become loud enough to influence the change themselves. Even I've been making invasion content because of how much I love it. Love the content, man. I hope our cries for help dont go forever unnoticed
For those who don't watch his streams, Jeenine said that he's making his own souls-like pvp-focused game
With all the experience and understanding he has of the genre and its systems, I feel like it might be a good hope we have of getting a new good pvp souls game to enjoy, although it might take a while
Knowing JeeNine It's gonna be sweat-lord central.
I mean, Jeenine understand a game has to be accessible to the newer players too, it's not all about making it more fun for veteran pvpers
Ya it was lords of fallen and it was shite
@@odium1954 it's not about accessibility but fun, balance and general diversity of tools given to players, concepts foraging to that clown.
Take Miriam's Vanishing for example, he and his bootlickers cried like crazy over single, viable utility sorcery and now it's complete dog water.
He has no clue about making a game let alone balancing it.
@@Nobody32990same for the backstep talisman, he don t understand why it was as good tools and change the gameplay for those Whant to play with it. So now it s broken..
I believe that due to the POPULAR demand of the main consumers of elden ring fromsoftware will remove the invasions and leave only a coliseum in elden ring 2 since if it worked nerfing the invaders to keep their MAIN audience happy they will do it again in elden ring 2
I've been trying to break the stigma of "Bad Red Man" since i started PvPing not too long ago. I was the same, I giga hated invaders. Now that I have a grip on PvP and how to duel, I love getting invaded and invading. I like to drop off gifts like consumables or runes before I fight the host so they don't feel like their time is 'wasted' by the bad red man. I also like to let wholesome noob hosts 'beat' me so they feel satisfaction for beating an invader, in hopes they won't avoid or hate them in the future. If only more people understood how invasion timers work.
I was an Elden Ring noob, so I never knew they had multiplayer in all the other games. I play offline only, but I do invade for Varres quest. Over and over since launch, and I usually lose, but I've won a few 2v1s and a 3v1. It just feels like an annoying part of a quest and not like a fun and exciting game mode. Two and a half years offline and I've never had the desire to try multiplayer.
I don't even like the in-game invasions. I already met Edgar twice, why isn't he just at the shack when I get there? I talked to Varre multiple times, he gave me stuff, and picked my finger, but now I have to go to another dimension to kill him? It's so poorly explained and haphazardly shoved into the main game. It just feels like a tacked on afterthought.
Even though I have no interest in multiplayer, I do hope they continue to tweak it and add new stuff to keep everyone else interested. If they ever add useful or unique in-game items and equipment to multiplayer I'll be all about it.
That's cute and all but all it takes is one dedicated gank squad to sour my taste. I stopped caring about that and fully embraced the bad red man energy, a salute emote is all you're getting from me in the best and honest conditions possible
Other than seamless which is a mod btw the invasion gameplay doesn’t add anything. It’s an outdated mechanic that they don’t know what to do with. I would rather them remove it then add more or attempt to fix it.
Yes I know it “adds” pvp but sorry man if a mod has better multiplayer gameplay by a significant margin when it didn’t have invasions and is doing better job than you now, your gameplay implementation of said mechanic is bad and also useless. Especially when the time between getting invaded after killing an invader is damn near instant. That is why invaders are hated.
The only way is community. Red men across the lands between must band together and vocalize our issues with the system in place. It’s all we can do. I’m hoping in the future mods like seamless co-op on pc will be more possible on console in the future. I know it’s never happened with previous games but mods would benefit the pve players as well. If fromsoft won’t listen to ALL of the community , then let the community do it themselves.
Sadly, invaders tend to be very individualistic. It's almost part of the character type that would want invasions in the first place. They really suck at banding together for a common goal, by nature. It would have to be a really unprecedented moment of solidarity.
@@ianwilliams2632 individualistic? This far from the truth in my experience. I have a group on Xbox with over 70 people who are invaders. People in the chat offer strats and drop items to whoever needs them. All of us being invaders I'll add. Another point, go look at previous comments on Jon’s vids. Most invaders can agree a small change to the TT or allowing rewards for invasions/arena would be supported by all players and would get more people into it. One of the most asked questions I see from new players wanting to get into invasions is: “what do you get from invading when you win?” Most people’s response is because it’s fun. It’s not for a silly rune arc. So adding rewards in place could grab more casuals attention.
Im glad Fromsoft is making bank off of Elden Ring. They deserve every penny not just for this game but every previous title that has brought me joy. Butt i truly hope the mass appeal and diluted audience it has fostered doesnt spell the end of their unique approach to gane design and i wouldnt personally want another game of this scale from them.
I am more of a PvE player, but I do miss solo invasions. I think a good middle ground would be to allow for solo invasions within Legacy Dungeons. I’d say minor dungeons too, but it’s the legacy dungeons that have the layouts to make invasions interesting for both the player and the invader, coupled with the in game expectations that these places are more dangerous. I think it would allow for solo invasions without the inevitable annoyance of being suddenly knocked off of Torrent in the over world. I’d count “minor legacy dungeons” like Castle Ensis, Morne or Shaded Castle - basically, if it’s a unique locale yes (though I can imagine invasions in the larger tombs and forges could be fun too).
Even for PvE players, the presence of invasions within a Legacy Dungeon would allow for much more variation when going through repeatedly, and I enjoyed slowly getting better at dealing with them in DS3, even if Irithyl invasions felt downright toxic sometimes
that was very emotional, jon. I share the same feeling.
Hot take: Souls PVPers need to stop pretending the game is a serious PVP game. It has so many latency and balance issues it is silly to dump all that effort in. The game needs a full netcode overhaul, and I think they know that. The game did not sell a bazillion copies on the back of being an e-sports title.
Claiming the devs don't play their own game is nonsense.
How dare you be reasonable in middle of the circlejerk
Exactly. The first thing that i hear when playing with friends in their first time playing is: "I hit the guy but i didn't count. Why?" Then the invader proceds to melt us both with two hits because i'm shit at PVP and can't defend my friend. Then i explain is the netcode and the latency, this instantly turns them off of trying to learn the PVP aspect of the game.
I understand the PVPers, they want to feel rewarded with their skill, surpass the expectations of winning a fight that's biased to the other side. It all seems really fun and this is not sarcasm. I feel like is really unpleaseant to the invader to fight under these conditions like in the video, i think they just want a good fight and that's it.
But with the current system, i don't want to be forced to fight a guy who is min/maxed/meta level who's gonna use various cheap tatics to beat me who's testing a completely unknow hammer for the first time.
So when a invader get into our world, we always threat them with the most respect possible, using the bow emote, fighting fair with only 1v1. Utilizing this tactic usually end up getting me and my friend killed, but at least is a neat little interaction for the invader and us.
From Software should really fix these problems with latency and netcode before focusing on the PVP.
I can imagine how PVPers will cry even more if netcode will not give them latency-understanding-skill advantage.
If the devs actually invaded someone, got spawned in a middle of 3 mages spamming the most cancer spells and ashes of war on top of him just to instantly die and say "Yeah, that's fine", then God have mercy on their soul.
@@randomdeliveryguy This is saying the quiet part out loud. You want an advantage when invading like the other games. Invaders should be on the backfoot. I have no problem with invasions, and I casually invade sometimes, but it is painfully obvious when people complain about this they just want to be able to faceroll noobs all day. When I get ganked I say "yeah, I deserved that" because I did. I was the one who started the aggression.
people in ds3 still cry about estus canceling and other glitches to this day. like lmfao, ELDEN RING? ELDEN RING Will just stay the same... prolly the only game that got boring so fast.
I was hyped af for ER for years before it came out, and was already bored of it within a few weeks after release. The magic is gone.
@@ianwilliams2632try ds2
@@ianwilliams2632 same it was a real hype since 2019
Thanks!
Edit: ok, this invader vs cooper thing is just unreasonable. Invasions are a core mechanic, so is summoning. You have a right to Co-Op i have the right to invade you. End of story FFS
I really don't think they will fix taunter's. All they will do is fixing bugs and fucking with the balance. Last patch is a great example of it. Backhand blades with new poise values are BEYOND broken
This late in the game there will be no fundamental changes. The only way I could see them doing it is with the VERY last patch. "fuck it, this is how the game will be forever, let's throw a bone to those who will still be around in 2 years". But it's not going to happen. ER is THE power fantasy, it's the game most PVE-centric of their catalogue. Everyone else is basically a nuisance to the devs.
@@ianwilliams2632 I mean the PVE is also completely broken so IDK. I can use a PVP build to do 10 000 damage to Radagon in one combo. Not even optimal damage stat distribution. Not even optimal aramour and tali setup. Lmfao
@@zwidowca1have you ever thought that it is the PvP crowd itself that has done this to the game.
Meta all the fun out of everything.
Optimize the fun out of everything.
I think making an optimized build yourself can be fun.
But 99.99% of people just look up a broken build and how to set it up… because it is broken.
PvE is one thing, but PvP in ER is the most dog water PvP in any Fromsoft game I’ve played.
More than half the people you run into are sweating their balls off running the most broken abused stuff and then they will flex on you like their god.
Here is the PvP from a 10000 foot view.
Find weapon that really long and go poke.
Add bleed.
Congrats you will destroy 99% of people if you or even remotely competent with your movement.
Trash.
@@bigiron1990 Ah yes, because it is the PVP crowd that made the game. Because it is the PVP crowd that is responsible for bugs... Jesus dude... Because the meta is not made by the devs in the first place... Bruh not only do you not have a point, you are wrong.
Yes the PVP is trash. It is simply the fault of devs drifitng away from what prior games were and focusing on PVE. Which in turn does not matter because PVE is also broken as feck. With hundreds of op builds and dumb item interactions or glitches.
@@WyattStrange Yeah, Havel mages invaders in DS2 were so much fun when you tried to play the game with your weird, experimental build
Love your videos. The tone and merit is just on point
Hopefully they're looking at the mods people are creating and one day make a big seamless PVP update patch.
To answer your question, I'm waffling between a few options:
- Play Dark Souls 3, even with it's lower activity. To this day, it's still my favorite souls game.
- Play some other games, even if they're offering a totally different experience. I've really been enjoying Remnant 2
- Maybe try some other chaotic melee-action games. I kind of bounced off of Chivalry 2, but I'm not opposed to exploring other options.
What I don't plan on doing is sticking around for the Elden Ring PvP experience if nothing changes. My time is too valuable to be playing something that's equal parts frustrating and enjoyable (honestly, more the former sometimes.)
If you think about it, it fits with the dark souls theology. We're too powerful. How easy would it be if we allowed to invade a solo host or have 2x damage and defense if host was with a summon. It would be too fair.
This video needs japanese translation. Send it right beside g9's balance concerns. I hope the final patch has the long term players in mind.
I'm so tired about this pvp after thought that sometimes I think ER would be a better game if they just straight up remove invasions. That way we can stop bothering with this frustrating thing.
Honestly the solution is to find a way to make people who don't like PVP become excited when they get into PVP. Make PVP more rewarding and less punishing.
Fromsoft is worryingly close to falling into the AAA gaming industry's trap of following trends and creating a more generic experience to satisfy the "larger demographic" (who are transient by nature, and don't usually continue to play beyond the limited attention they initially give the game at the beginning), essentially taking the easy way out, instead of leaning into the uniqueness of their games and extrapolating on the features that the Soulsborne community has fallen in love with over the years.
Elden Ring makes me worried for the future of Fromsoft. If the core userbase begins to feel alienated, which is already happening, they may lose interest or stop paying attention. I definitely am feeling the alienation already.
I remember when this happened to Halo, especially after Halo 5: Guardians. The developers completely lost sight of why people fell in love with their games to begin with, and they lost everything and most everybody. Almost 10 years later and they're still picking up the pieces.
Me and my friends play Fromsoft games for the multiplayer aspect of it, specially the PvP. ER was such a letdown. Its impressive it was made by the same people that did DkS 2 and DkS 3.
10:50
Reminder that 99% of invasions are 3 men ganks. If you get killed by invader they earned that T-bag.
@@Nobody32990 People don't like to be humiliated, even if there is some objective reason for that. Reminder that you can't participate in invasions without hosts to invade. Don't humiliate players and then cry why they hate you.
@@ShMokou blame Fromsoft for removing solo invasions ☕
bro gets humilliated IRL because someone squatted in elden ring
@@Nobody32990 Yes. And OP suggestions on mad tongue will not fix that part.
Im less worried about elden ring not getting fixed and more concerned about the next game just outright not having invasions.
You can pretend all the invaders just do it for the love of the game or "the hunt" as you put it, but that won't change that 99% of Invaders are showing up with the same boring one trick builds that were balanced months ago or spamming (insert oneshot build or braindead ash of war here). I play on console but I keep my ear to the ground and it's obvious that the overwhelming majority of pc players play seamless coop not just for a better coop experience but to not have to put up with the bullshit that is invaders. All y'all do when people bring legitimate arguments to the table is say the games too easy, I want chaotic pvp but all I run into is ganks and overleveled summons, play offline or don't coop, ect. You say telling invaders to go to the colosseum is missing the point but why do you think people gank, abuse taunters tongue, run around with overleveled summons ect? Because they don't want to deal with you. Fromsoft can add a whole separate invasion mode for the pve'rs that want to deal with your bullshit and the pvp players who actually enjoy the chaos of invasions instead of just copy+pasting what they read on reddit because imma keep it 100 with you majority of Invaders are just trolls with nothing better to do and no amount of repeating the same tired old "it embodies Fromsoft games and makes them better" will change that
i think the severe backlash from the community and complete indifference on the part of fromsoft has all but guaranteed someone else is going to pick up the torch and actually improve on the systems that already existed and were gutted for ER.
Just being back solo invasions bring back covenants and get rid of the wide variety of weapons I think the variety is the main issue, with so many different play styles balancing is challenging, I hope the next game there is mainly melee weapons with consumables acting as the main ranged option with an occasional ranged weapon and no shields
Elden ring pvp could have been the greatest out of the souls games, there are so many different factions that could have become covenants so much stuff they could have added to both enrich the pvp and co-op experience alike and yet we get nothing.my main gripe about pvp is that there is no incentive to do it, it is not the least bit rewarding because a single rune arc and some ointment is not worth fighting a host and his 2 summons for 15 mins. the only reason i still invade is because i like to and nothing more. i honestly think fromsoft made invasions horrible by design to discourage people from doing it because it seems that the community hates invaders and wants nothing to do with pvp because anywhere you complain about the state of invasions whether it be youtube or reddit or wherever the response you are always met with is from people saying that you deserve to have a horrible time and that they do not want you in their games and wish invasions were not a thing to begin with, or to just stay in the arena because you are horrible for simply wanting to use a system that has been in the series since the beginning.
i was typing “we wait” as you said it.
You make the most out of it in the meantime. You can find new ways to play and enjoy the game, the sheer variety of the games allow for this. The experimentation itself is fun. (At least for me) The same thing overall happened to their Armored Core VI game.
god, I feel this
I already moved on for my pvp fix, learning Tekken 8 now. Last time pvp was dead for me was DS1 in 2015 , moved on to Street Fighter 5 at that time and enjoyed 500 hours of SF5 which wasn’t the best fighting game by far but way better than souls pvp balance and lack of players to invade when then game was a ghost town
It's not too late Fromsoft, you can still up the player limit, you can still just ask the people who made the seamless coop and invasion mods if they would like to impliment it officially for credit and pay, you can still fix this, you can still make everyone happy.
We need more noise in union, a while back there was a major pvp update(most just wepaon balancing and the stuff) but i had heard G9 talk about how they had managed to get a hold of someone who took it to the fromsoftware team(i dont know how true this is as i haven't fact checked it myself) but i feel if Miyuzaki and/or the fromsoft team was more aware of the invasion standpoint they would be willing to expand upon the idea, sometimes it feels like they're listening, sometimes it feels like we're talking to a brick wall. Also if anyone could direct me to were i could help bring more awareness to the from team,let me know. I play on Xbox and as much as i would have no issue just installing seamless co-op on my computer, it would be so much better if these changes were implemented into the base game for all to enjoy across the platforms. I really enjoy souls pvp as its so unique and i havent been able to experience anything else like it in another game, please Miyuzaki, please fromsoft - hear us, we wish not to hinder that game but help develop it to its fullest potential - and this game has so much potential
Jon, you're the Nietzsche of the pvp community. Hard truths, true criticism that hits like a knee to the face.
If they don't fix anything, imma become a dirty invader. Fromsoft's neglect of pvp makes me sad
I wonder what the Japanese community makes of PvP support? I feel like they are the only ones FromSoft will actually listen to.
My problem with the arena is there are no consequences. In a game all about consequences, the arena is meaningless. You get summoned in, spam your bullshit, blend up one player, and get melted by someone else. But then you just restart. No harm, no foul, until the timer runs out. It’s a fun few minutes in all the chaos, but it’s an empty fun that gets…boring. Really fast.
I feel like PvP has always been more of a back burner for from software, examples, des. Never added poise to anything, ds1 never fixed the easy backstabs, bloodborne, never fixed the s, etc. and I remember in an old interview, Miyazaki stated, the soul purpose of invasions, were just a fun idea of, another player, coming to fight you, and that’s it. No over powered other player, nothing truly geared to the invader or anything. And not to defend the guys that don’t like invaders, I just feel like, they don’t like jerk invaders, someone that’s gonna point down, or dungpie, or tbag them if they lose to the invader.
Now to answer your question: I feel like absolutely nothing will happen, if they don’t change PvP lol us dedicated souls fans, will actively revisit, as well as invade in all the games, like myself lol sure the player count may go down a bit, but us fans will always be around. I’ll message after invasions, saying good game, and it would be to a player I’ve apparently fought 2 years ago, looking at the dates on the psn thread, since ps never deletes lol so nothing will happen if they don’t, in my humble opinion.
I just had an idea of pvp that only uses 4 player limit if it is indeed what is only possible in ER due to performance issues,
So 3 gankers inabled TT (which cannot be turned off.) Then 1 invader comes in. Then the invader manages to kill 1 phantom. The vacant slot will prioritize another invader but the moment the second invader comes in the 2 gankers left will have a level 1 buff ( lore: because they got angry their brother died) purpose to embolden their spirit to continue fighting and they have a light red aura around their character to show of and make them braver. Then when only host is left against 2 invaders he will have another buff(adrenalin buff more intense aura to make him feel even more powerful like a boss thus encourage him to fight till the end.) blues come in and out and buffs react as intended)
Thus 4 player limit but more dynamic and interesting battle.
Bah, why not just limit the cooperators to 1, so invaders would not have the typical 3v1 and the game would be less piss-easy
Let's put these foolish performance issues allegations to the rest as seemless coop mod on PC can handle up to 10 players
@@LedzQQ you forgot this was designed also to run on PS4 in an open world setting..
I just found out about the taunters 👅 and wanna start using it while playing solo. Can anyone explain how to best use it while im playing? Do i need to have alot of the summoning pools unlocked to get invaded alot, etc.
Can you really blame FromSoft?
Cause the last time they made a genuine and honest effort towards putting the multiplayer experience first, the most vocal members of the community blasted it into oblivion.
The majority of these complaints coming from either a lack of understanding on how certain mechanics work or simply parroting disinformation that they're spoon fed.
And despite these complaints, the game is still considered the best PvP in the series.
I honestly won't be surprised if FS completely drops PvP as a whole in the future, especially with the success of the Seamless Coop Mod.
I don't want to incentivize releasing unfinished products but considering Elden rings scope and size as well as Fromsofts reputation. I would gladly pay 20 bucks for another DLC to improve on storylines, PVP, etc. Whatever it is that he wanted to do but didn't have enough time.
Well it circles back to all of the crazy meta builds and the ashes of wars, and the ash summons. FSW has built ER to be a very streamlined, casual focused souls game. Make no mistake, it is a souls game. It feels like a souls game and it plays like one. It’s all in tact. They just added a lot of stuff to make the baseline “souls experience” more accessible. And that’s the problem. Because in doing so, they took the coddling to higher levels, which is where PvP comes in.
They protect the new player and make the veterans suffer. The veterans suffer in pve because if they opt out of using the meta and the ash summons, every boss feels like Yhorm without the stormcaller. And if veterans want to partake in PvP , they’re met with gank squads and are at the mercy of 3 people spamming AoWs at them for the 4 seconds it takes to kill them.
We have two potential outcomes. Either the next game will go back to formula , or this process of coddling is going to get worse.
I wish that they give us back covenants so that cooperators and hosts will ATLEAST have some form of sympathy why people invade rather than “oh this guy just wants to kill me for fun. What a butt.”
If covenants are back, atleast everyone would have some incentives invading: armor and weapons locked behind PvP rewards.
It may not remove the hatred but atleast it can garner some sympathy from other players as to why invaders invade other than the sport of death
I'm done it was a wild ride, good luck to everyone.
1000 years of From silence going forward 😢
Loving your videos btw
I got Elden on launch day as a total Dark Souls noob. I thought I was buying a single player RPG, I had no idea Fromsoft has put multiplayer in all of the Dark Souls games. Now I understand how important multiplayer is to these games and that it's what keeps them alive for so long after launch. It does sound like it was a lot fun in those older games, but it feels like a tacked on afterthought in Elden Ring to me.
I play offline only, I don't even want to see ghosts, blood stains, or messages, but I do go online and invade three people for Varres quest line every time. I've invaded close to or over a hundred times. Usually I lose because I'm a PvE build and I'm outnumbered. I have won a few 2v1s and a 3v1 but it just feels like an annoying part of a quest, not a fun and exciting game mode.
Chasing people around for Rune Arcs and bragging rights just feels like a waste of time to me. I need useful in-game items to make it feel worth my while. Winning or losing against randoms isn't accomplishing much in my eyes when there's no reward or recognition for it.
I do hope they continue to tweak and add things to it. I realize how important multiplayer is to people. They've been pretty good at listening so far with Elden Ring, so I'm sure it'll get better before it gets worse.
I really don’t think they’ll ever put more focus on the PvP for Elden ring other than those “small adjustments” I would probably not play another game for over half a year if they did 6 player invasions. But it’s been over 2 years and at this point Iv given up hope. I pray one day they make a souls game with multiplayer as the focus. Advertised as the PvP experience from the beginning. But a man can only dream.
Have you considered invading in seemless coop, how is it from an invader prespective
Agreed 100% they need to show invaders some love
If nothing changes then this just isn’t a game I see myself playing for years to come besides a visit to the PvE.
I really really hope that the state of Elden Ring PvP isn’t a sign of its implementation in future titles. The way that the game is catered to hosts and co-op with PvP feeling like an afterthought makes me think they will just abandon it. They have a record of tweaking PvP in each game, so maybe there is a chance that they can improve it next time around, but that’s wishful thinking.
No covenants, lackluster arena, anime-style weapon arts that are unbalanced for PvP, and more of an emphasis on player power fantasy that doesn’t mesh with the aesthetic of invasions. It all feels like a trend towards removing the mechanic, as it’s been totally neutered in this game.
Literally all they need to do is release solo invasions again, and remove rune rewards for severing out invaders. Tie it to the great rune being active.
At least then we can sever out any gank squads and afk farmers and take comfort in knowing their lobbies will be ghost towns with no invaders sticking around to die
Bro, did you straight run away from three guys for the whole fight, then when you finally got one. you teabagged?
You mean the three guys that wasted his time and were too scared to follow one invader into the level, then got absolutely curb stomped when it was 1v1? I bet you can't even win a 2v1, let alone a 3v1.
Guaranteed you do the same but opposite; 3 of you running away from 1 guy, then t-bag when he dies
You sound like you never been on the other end of a cringe host and 2 phantoms party and it shows
Yeah, he should've ran straight into the three guys spamming fireball, hyperarmor weapons and lightning. That would've worked!