Thank you for actually pointing this out. Since I finished the DLC (which I enjoyed a ton) I was left with this sensation of "People treated Dark Souls 2 very harshly for less than this, yet this DLC is considered a masterpiece by the majority".
It's because Miyazaki was not involved with DS2. If he had been I guarantee the game would be thought of as a masterpiece and anyone pointing out its flaws would be shouted down just like how it's happening with Elden Ring
@@MrSketchead If he had been involved it wouldn't be as terrible as it was, so yeah, definitely would've received less criticism. ER is my least faavourite souls game after 2, but at least it's functional which is more than can be said about the mess that is SOTFS. I haven't even started your video but after that dimwitted DS2 comment I don't think I'll bother wasting my time.
@ennayanne Ds2 has its issues but even Miyazaki himself has said he’s looked back at that game in particular for it’s interesting mechanics among other things and took inspiration from it and applied it to elden ring (Scott Judd has a good video covering the interview).
Every boss feels like a checklist of unintuitive, delayed, lightning fast, combo branches, combo extensions, etc. Its a chore of having to differentiate them, memorize them, internalize the timings. Like I can do it... I did do it... But god its just soooo tedious. Like I remember learning Gael and each time you cam just run in, act and react, and just ambiently learn the boss. These bosses feel like I need a sheet of paper to take notes and review gameplay footage 😂.
Strat-edgy production described it best, other games aim to maintain and train you for the "flow state" of combat while ER deliberately try to throw you off and surprise/trick you by breaking your concentration/rhythm with feints/delay attack/aoe spam all in the name of "hardest game"
Correct, Elden Ring challenges you while other games tutoritalize the boss to the point you really can't lose. They drill all the problem solving right out of the boss fights because they all bought into this idea bosses are final exams. They can be, but they don't have to be what so ever. Elden Ring bosses are not final exams. They are challenges made to the player. They are designed to kill you, not make you feel good cuz you 1 shot the final exam but because you overcame to monumental challenge presented to you. Final Exam boss mentality has ruined so many bosses because the game spends so much time beating you over the head with how to fight them properly that once you grt to them theres nothing to do. Nothing to figure out, nothing to puzzle out, nothing. Just do what the game taught you the previous 4 hours and you'll win. Booooooooring.
@@aureateseigneur5317 games are made to be beaten, all games are that way, its not a matter of "if" you can beat it but "when" and "how" can you beat it. This is like the most fundamental principal in game designing. If you think ER devs are "smart" or "right" to simply go against that principle then im sorry youre just wrong and you dont know why games are fun or challenging. I find it laughable that you think "ER bosses cant be 1 shot" when it is entirely possible and easy even. All they did to make the bosses "hard" was the following: - removes their set combo and instead give them "distance based combo branches" to break the anticipation of "bosses stamina". - have bosses do animation reads to artificially make the enemies harder - disorient players with feints/delay attacks and unparriable moves to artificially inflate the trial and error aspect of the game None of those things makes a game more interesting or engaging, it only chases the artificial difficulty so souls fan can stroke their ego and tell people to "git gud". On the other hand those same design choices break immersion, favors style beyond substance and reduce engagement in the fight. When i play for example MH im always immersed in the hunt and most of the times the monster felt fair/balance and well telegraphed which grips me harder into the game. Meanwhile ER with its design philosophy makes me feel like fighting combo dispensing machines with cheats that force the player into submission, there is no immersion or satisfaction in beating that lifeless machine type of boss. You are sorely mistaken if you think just make a boss "hard" is somehow good design, imagine a boss that have a bazillion HP, every hit you do is set to 1 dmg while everything they do is a 1 hit kill cinematic grab attacks that last 15s, players would still find a way to beat the boss but that boss is a shit design. An actual "hard" thing is research in a lab, create/invent something unique, not playing a "hard" game that give you the illusion of hardship via it's trial and error based design. Being hard is not the point of souls game, if fromsoft is hellbent on chasing difficulty with cheap and disorienting designs then i guess the souls games are not for me anymore, time to find something else or heck, make my own type of game i would play.
ye thats cuz he 180s mid jump. same with one of messmers attack where if you are behind him youll outright see the model just do a 180 mid attack with not animation, the boss just changed direction. so well designed
Yeah, the bosses in the DLC are more than a bit overturned. I wouldn't say they are "harder" Melenia, who I never actually defeated without co-op cheese, whereas I've been able to solo all of the DLC up to the final boss. That said, the DLC bosses are otherwise still all way harder than anything else from the base game. The long combo strings with short window of vulnerability are a big art of that, but something I don't see brought up nearly as much is just how quickly the bosses start their aggression in the first place. In the base game most bosses have an initially slow approach, which is important because the player can't actually summon their spirit ash until stepping through the fog. In the DLC however, boss don't just have faster attacks, they can also close distance just quickly and punish any attempt to use spirit ash from the start.
I agree with this so much , it’s exactly what I’ve been saying … this DLC while impressive on many fronts has poor combat and poor scaling . There is no weakness or no strategic planning to abuse said weakness , they are all fast and have a ton of HP and poise … you can’t tell me this is a skill issue when I’ve beaten the dlc in full , this is a “fun” issue .. is it really fun to fight the same types of bosses and enemies? Not to mention the actual repeat bosses … I can’t believe I paid 60$ CAD to fight I falling star beast again in a empty area full of fingers … or fight the same stupid dragon we fought a million times in the base game but the only difference is it’s “ghost flame” now lol … I could go on about just the repeat bosses alone but it’s really the combat that’s disappointing for me
There wasn’t that much repeat bosses, you’re stretching, besides, this is a dlc, not a brand new game, so it’s unreasonable to not have any overlap in enemies/bosses. And all the bosses do have ample time to attack, it’s not just about dodging but positioning, if you position yourself well, you can get an extra hit or two in depending on the boss.
What are you talking about? You can kill each boss very quickly. No strategy? Did you forget about all the conditionals, items, buffs, weapon skills, and stat planning, along with all the new innate armor effects? I killed Mesmer in less than 30 seconds with no fragments because everyone complaining that it’s too difficult has never read a tooltip or learned how to actually play the game. It’s like people saying Rykard was too hard when they didn’t even realize you can upgrade the Serpent Hunter, or complaining about Godfrey when you can just throw knives at him and he will die within a few seconds, etc. You’re all trying to play Dark Souls when Elden Ring is Demon’s Souls on steroids.
@@joshsmith8715 although I see your opinion that’s just not true … the hinterlands for example .. I was expecting a crazy new boss especially since it was the finger ruins and marikas hometown … instead we got two tree sentinals and a falling star beast lol … I could name every bullshit repeat boss on the dlc but id rather not waste my time . Seems like you already made your decision about it regardless of what I say… and for positioning , okay there is some truth to that , but it’s beside the point I was trying to make dude , the bosses are playing in sekiro speed while are playing in dark souls . Your character feels at a natural disadvantage no matter what you do . So what’s the solution to that ? Broken builds that feel like your cheesing or playing 8 hours a day trying to memorize their moveset … it’s just not good game design .
Bro you’ve not played the game if you think ghsotflame dragons are the same😂 they only share the soundtrack nothing more People are quick to say skill issue because from what you’ve described, you lack serious skill and knowledge on how the game works. Get good
@@Vhaal-666What are you talking about? Not everyone wants to masturbate some cheese build like you to skip the bos. We just want a better variety basic player moves and less pathetic scamplay from fromsoft, to make the game fun, as well as a challenge.
You put into words what I couldn't while playing the dlc. I was afraid I was the only person losing their mind playing this. I remember enjoying the base game two years ago, but once I started the dlc I couldn't remember being so frustrated before. It is a beautiful game but the combat ended up feeling like I was working at a crappy job without getting any pay. Whenever I beat a boss it wasn't joy or excitement but just relief that it was over. There will always be idiot savants who can beat the game at level one, but for everyone else, it's just an unhappy slog.
See the problem is that this fanbase is filled with people who care about nothing _but_ difficulty, and think doing something as insane as _forty_ tries on a boss is normal. They then go on to call well-designed bosses bad because they could beat them on the first try and weren't stuck for an hour or more on them. I was talking to someone like this once and he said how beating the boss, no matter how frustrating, gives you a huge sense of accomplishment. I pointed out to him that when the boss is this frustrating, you are just happy that it's over and likely never want to fight it again. These games are increasingly catering to a fanbase of lunatics who only care about punishingly difficult boss fights to the detriment of everything else.
@Otakumanu That’s a good way to put it I coul play their earlier games up to Sekiro infinitely and even if a boss took me a while it felt like there was always area for mistakes to properly learn a boss. I have felt that constantly on my playthroughs of elden ring first time specifically at end game and for some DLC bosses like Radahn I felt such a big shift in a lot of the bosses and enemies being hard for the sake of being hard and not taking in the learning process for the player into account. After 5 years of playing there games and beating every one and every boss no other has just made me feel relief I don’t have to fight that boss again as consistently as elden ring has, even ones like Malenia I learned to like I see WFD and even knowing how to dodge it it gives me a knee jerk reaction since there is no discernible, well communicated way to dodge it, and this seems to be a trend which makes learning some of there bosses unnecessarily frustrating.
Also unrelated, but it’s sad to me not one decent duo boss exists in their supposed pinnacle souls game yet AC had several great ones. Even Ds2 had a few great duo bosses.
What percentage of the "gitgud" crowd are just trying to justify the amount of time they spent on the game? Like a warped sunk cost fallacy type thing.
Yeah, exactly. These games are about spending time learning the bosses moves I don't know where you're getting sunk cost fallacy from. It literally has nothing to do with feeling like you wasted money on the game if you don't want to spend the time learning
I would also say a large portion of them summon mimic tear and use broken tools like fingerprint shield, or comet azure, or mohg spear build, etc. So their experience isnt even comparable to ours. I remember talking to a friend and he was telling me how he beat Divine Beast in 3 tries and Rellana in 2 and my jaw hit the floor until I saw his gameplay 😂
@@randychristensen1028You only have to "learn the moves" because the mechanics are warped. Seeing the move should be enough, otherwise it's repeat attempts to discover how the mechanics warp physics to fool the player. I feel like a beta tester.
Sekiro and Bloodborne gameplay is just better than both Dark Souls and Elden Ring purely because they were designed around a specific feel. I adore all things Fromsoft, but I'd trade the next Elden Ring for another Bloodborne or Sekiro.
The community has become a parody of itself. Git Gud was a joke souls vets would say to new players who'd complain about difficulty because we knew that the games weren't very difficult, they just took some learning. Now it's like Fromsoft fans are trying to rewrite history saying that difficulty was always the point.
That's quite reductive. Difficulty isn't the whole point of a souls game that everything else serves but it is very much an intrinsical part of these games. The bosses of base Elden Ring are extremely well balanced around what you can access around them. Obvious examples being gravitas, haligdrake talisman, and a cache of smithing stone all being with a short jog of each other in Limgrave just before Margit. All the way to Malenia being easy to stagger but punishing to make mistakes as you have access to essentially everything. Boiled crab, drakecrest greatshield, extremely powerful AoW like Lions Claw and Bloundhound and so much more. The DLC is much the same. With a popup emphasizing the important of Scadutree fragments as well as giving an upgraded Lions Claw, Blade of Mercy, and Deflecting Hardtear without facing a single or particularly complex enemy outside the unarmored Furnace Golem which can be killed by an idiot at RL58 with a Frozen Needle (hi how's it going). Elden Ring and its DLC are designed around rewarding exploration with numerical strength and increased options. I've watched your videos; you declare the majority of SotE's rewards as useless since you choose not to use them. This is not a flaw in the game's design, you have chosen to limit your options in a game that is designed around these options. Deliberately cutting off items and abilities is in its own way a challenge run. Aside from PC Radahn and Bayle, no boss in the dlc gave me as much trouble as Maliketh let alone Malenia. They all each have their own strengths and weakness and it is up to the player to exploit them. Either through their own trial and error or from sharing information and experiences. To often critics decide to ignore the social aspects of these games for some reason. If you're enjoying the dance of the fight or exploring the world then enjoy, if something is walling you its fine to watch someone doing an odd roll or some parry timings.
@@Slate674 Want to use your brain huh? In this very same thread I've said that you don't need to summon a fingerprint, bleed, antspur mimic to enjoy the game. My own builds are woefully unoptimized and I have to make up for that with roll timing and learning the boss. The fact of the matter is that Elden Ring has increased the bosses aggression and likely meant for the player to overcome this by engaging in the rpg mechanics. These games have never been designed for challenge runs thats what makes them challenging. You don't need to pick between naked with a stick and completely shutting the boss down for the entire fight. The point of increasing the damage you deal is to decrease the time you need to fight the boss risking defeat as the fight stretches on. Increasing your own hp, atk, and in ER mobility is key to fighting the boss in an enjoyable way. If you choose to not engage with the hundreds of weapons, spells, talismans and consumables Fromsoft made for you; you're not using your brain, you're actively trying not to.
That's because it's now full of people who love to look down on other people and will jump at any opportunity to swing their smegma ridden "alpha gamer" cock around to feel better about themselves.
The problem isn't "difficulty without purpose", it's "difficulty without balance and proper tuning". Also the problem isn't whether the bosses are beatable in general, it's whether they are properly balanced and are reasonably beatable for average souls players. I can't really take the combat in ER and SotE seriously, it's so poorly balanced and unpolished it's just tragic. Difficulty doesn't equal quality, Balance equals quality. A game without proper balance and tuning is just a mess of mechanics. The problem when discussing difficulty is that the community uses the hardcore challenge runners as the metric to judge and escalate the average/baseline difficulty. The distinction must be made between average/moderate players and hardcore players when discussing difficulty. Hardcore challenge runners do not represent the average souls player and will get absurdly good at a game no matter how difficult it is or how many issues it has. Just because a hardcore challenge runner can no hit a boss with low equipment that doesn't necessarily mean it was designed well or is of a reasonable difficulty for average players to comfortably beat. Using challenge runners to judge a games quality for an average player doesn't work and is not realistic. The base game should be a reasonable difficulty for average players to handle and enjoy. Extra difficulty should be provided with New Game Plus Modes and Boss Selection and Boss Gauntlets. I'm surprised people aren't really complaining about the lack of a Boss Selection option in ER an SotE. Hollow Knight did this the best imo with the Pantheons DLC, which was basically made for hardcore players that want more challenging bosses. Bloodborne did something similar by offering more challenging content with the FRC chalice dungeons. It would have been cool to set the difficulty of Dungeons in ER and SotE in a similar way (Like in some dungeons you have half health and there are more higher tier enemies and traps). Fromsoftware must not strive for the impossible when designing difficulty. You'll just end up with a game that's unplayable and unbeatable. That's not the point of games. All they need to do is make well balanced, well tuned mechanics with interesting and complex combat and offer a reasonable challenge. It feels like Fromsoftware is just reacting to and overcompensating for challenge runners. Fromsoftware must NOT use challenge runners as the baseline metric to set and escalate the average difficulty. They can stick to their philosophy but must keep the average player in mind. Difficulty must not come before or at the expense of balance and game mechanics. This is just my opinion :P
Why is there such a logical and well constructed argument for this issue coming from this community? And it not being drowned by "git guds" or comments like "you want this game to be for filthy casuals!" Doubly impressed. And very true.
@@falcoon_f_zero9450 More than likely those turds haven't seen it yet. I hope they don't. They never create a good discussion and always evolve it into "git gut" or some variance of it that just ignores the context, criticism, and preferred playstyle of others.
It's equally frustrating to hear "people just wanna brag about beating it so they refuse criticism" as it is to hear "skill issue git gud" I'm not a god gamer, I struggled a fat bunch but I enjoyed it. I just like the game, I think it's good. If I say I enjoy Radahn's lightshow, I like how it forces you to not merely time your dodge but also orient them in a way that one dodge avoids two attacks , coupled with the incredible music with an unusual tone for a Souls fight and the story context it made for a really spectacular and satsfying fight that I happily struggled through, is my appreciation merely driven by hollow bragging rights or is it just that I had fun ? What if I like that enemies have longer combos mixed in with delays because it means I can't just roll around and wait for an obvious opening but have to make one for myself through hitting in their delays or parrying or jumping ? What if I think this adds a unique layer to Elden Ring that the other games do not have, that makes every fight more active and more exciting, less turn-based ? What if I appreciate that the difficulty pushes me into using far more tools and moves to even the playing field than the previous games ever did because nothing else mattered in those but roll+R1 ? It's not like I disagree with everything, I wish From Soft would let go of much of Souls tropes, the camera sucks for Bayle and Lion, Metyr's lasers and Radahn's swipes aren't good. But what if I just think that those are blemishes rather than deep flaws and Elden Ring and its DLC have improved over previous games through much that you decry ? Can I not hold these opinions without having what I value be lumped in with idiots saying "uuuh skill issue git gud" ?
@@ALaz502 yeah... that's just an euphemism for cheesing the bosses. And you see, my guy, the thing is not so much that the bosses are "difficult", the thing is they're just not fun to fight. If I treat them like I'm playing DS, they're annoying and if I "uSe ThE TOolS", beating them is not rewarding at all. So pls, cut the bs.
@@ALaz502 that's true but the game shouldn't force you to use them in order to have a pleasant experience. Because yeah a boss can be as cool as you want but after 50 or 100 tries you just want to progress with the damn game and changing the build you liked for a more powerful option and using mimic tear might be a turn off for some people. That's why Gael or Midir or even Midra from SOTE itself are great bosses to me: they are hard but they are not insane can be defeated with every build after not so many attempts
@@ALaz502 you were talking about the game being "piss easy" so you tell me, my guy. Only you know how much cheapness are you putting into your experience. But this is not about you in particular, so I don't know why you felt the need to excuse yourself. Seems like someone has been making his game "piss easy" lately...
I agree with everything you said here. Elden Ring is my first souls game, and I've realized that what actually ends up happening for me is that I stand as high a chance of defeating a late game and DLC boss the first time around as the 100th time. Since the boss is gonna be flying around the arena, blocking my camera and spamming attacks, I'm not learning the pattern of the attacks, I just level up until I'm able to power through and get lucky with the moveset. That's in stark contrast to minor bossfights or mobs that have fewer tricks up their sleeves, who absolutely destroy you the first time, but after a couple of tries, you learn how to deal with them reliably.
Great video! Sote is beautiful but easily the worst thing I’ve played by fromsoft. Beat the dlc solo and enjoyed only a handful of bosses. The old souls combat system has just been pushed too far to be fun imho. I kinda hope the next game has a couple of bosses that just literally can’t be beaten for all the git gud trolls lol
I want to ask a serious question... You referenced Lies of P and how it's great and gives you more tools to deal with the enemies. I agree that Lies of P is great, I love the game but what exactly does it give you that ER doesn't? Particularly since SotE adding the deflect I genuinely cannot think of a single combat option available in LoP that isn't also available in ER whether offensive or defensive. I agree with you that the git gud community are ruining the game but in a different way. Somehow, it's viewed as illegitimate to use the tools in ER. Everyone wants to use a mid roll melee only build and then complain the game doesn't give you tools which is nonsense. There are more tools available to you than there ever has been. On the part about unavoidable attacks though, I strongly agree. The game should be balanced around the tools in the players base kit. Metyr laser and PCR X slash combo are inexcusable and should be patched. Why is it though that so many players are willing to engage with the tools and systems in LoP but ignore all of them in ER though, that is my main question. Thanks if you read this. Edit: you can see it in this very comment section. Someone advises using tools and then people respond that they don't want to cheese the game... Well what do they want? I just don't understand this mentality.
I think Lies of P is honestly worst than Elden Ring especially when it comes to defensive options. LoP has no poise so trading isn't a thing. However it has a lifesteal system like Bloodborne, however that depends on you trading and healing the damage from the trade. The lifesteal system is supposed to be the only redeeming quality from blocking so blocking is shit too. The parrying is very tricky because of the unintuitive enemy animations. You also can't cancel attacks with parries like in Sekiro. Dodging is always very weak and seems to have low i-frames. Apparently the game has a skill tree which makes some of those things better, but I lost interest and refunded it before then.
@@youcantbeatk7006 Ok, thank you for the reply. I strongly disagree with everything you said but it also didn't really address the point I was raising about why it is that ER offers a million tools to the player and must players refuse to use them.
@@BBQcheese Summons take away the player's agency by dividing the player's attention with characters the player has no control of. Crafting and consumables require annoying grinding. The Scoodydoo tree blessings are annoying to collect. Players shouldn't be forced into using specific builds like great shields. Players shouldn't be forced to use summons or crafting when so many people dislike them that there's clearly some objective faults with the design.
I agree, I couldn’t even bring myself to finish it. Though I play mostly for PVP (Which has it’s on issues), I wanted to enjoy this DLC but I ended up getting bored. Not with the content but with the design; enemies and bosses all suffer from the same issues. 1. Over aggression: The attack chains are FAR too long, they always lunge at you or have a projectile in some fashion and terrible hit boxes (At times) along jumpy, flippy bullshit you make it through all of this, just to get a single hit in and go through it all again, It’s repetitive. 2. Fucking Hyper Armor: Ya’ll call it poise, I play fighting games so I’m use to the hyper armor term. If used sparingly poise can be fun, breaking down the enemy defenses can make you feel powerful but in this DLC it’s not poise it’s HYPER ARMOR meaning you can’t flinch the foe at all. This makes most weapons feel like shit and limits builds to either spam magic or use stagger builds or other cheese tactics. 3. Damage: Damage even with the fragments is TOO HIGH. You can’t learn movesets if you’re punished with death after 3 hits, then once you learn what’s killing you, you die from another thing that kills you in 3 to 4 hits! At 60 vigor with health gear on and max fragments you still feel decently squishy, I’ve never felt defensively sound in this DLC (This is sorta a base game issue too). Every enemy/boss follow these issues which kills their uniqueness. All the different movesets and designs don’t matter if the majority of them have these same traits. It’s the same character in different skins at that point. Sorry for the wall.
at 6 hours time of fighting dlc final boss, I just asked myself "Is this fun?" And I just accept that the bosses are more tedious than fun for me so I just uninstall the game lol I am worried if Fromsoftware will make their next game as unbalanced as this one or worse, even harder than ever just for the sake of being hard.
I strongly agree with the topic that starts at 5:50. If Havel was an Elden Ring enemy he'd bouncing off the walls like a crackhead and be able to kamehameha you at will all while being super tanky and hitting like a truck.
@@aureateseigneur5317 lol he didn't. He actually didn't play ER until the dlc has been released and even then, he does not say he finished the whole game + dlc
It's just funny how every single boss/enemy will have a spin to win beyblade move, or a full area explosion at some point. Like, it doesn't take that much skill to avoid all of this once you've seen them the first time and you get all the tools to body these guys, but still feels completely uninspired and lazy. Besides say Malenia and Mohg that actually have distinct, characteristic attacks (like them or not), I will not even remember most of these bosses because they all have the same type of move: delay, spin, follow-up explosion, just with a different color or effect. Congratulations, From have achieved mediocrity.
Yeah Mohg's cool. Him and Godfrey are probably my favorite fights in the main game, and prove that From can make hard fights without resorting to cheap shit
@@MrSketchead Sometimes less is more, but it seems they got so insecure about it not being "hard" enough they went out of their way to create the most unintuitive bosses and enemies.
You're absolutely right. The first time I encountered Mohg's unavoidable blood curse and Malenia's waterfowl I got a sinking feeling in my stomach because I realized FromSoft were abandoning the "tough-but-fair" boss design philosophy that had provided so many enjoyable fights in their previous games. Seeing hoards of fanboys mindlessly defending these objectively bad design choices, I knew it would not bode well for future FromSoft titles. I still enjoy Elden Ring, but it saddens me to consider how much greater it could have been.
There is a crystal tier you can use to completely nullify the blood curse and various ways to stop blood buildup. Malenia's signature move can be learned and avoided either by running and dodging, or timed blocking and dodging.
@@silverblade357 You're missing the point. Mohg's special tear is fine, but no Soulsborne boss has ever featured an unavoidable attack because that's not fair. Malenia's waterfoul can be dodged by exploiting her tracking, but the move itself gives players no observable cues on how to do this. You just have to die to an unfair move a bunch of times until you figure it out through trial and error. Even if you block the attack, she will heal herself by hitting your shield which makes absolutely no sense. It's all just artificial difficulty.
I completely agree with criticism of WFD. But Mohg? Nothing about Mohg is unfair or unfun. He's absolutely terrific, one of the best bosses in the whole game.
@@ETBrooD I think they're on about how "NIHIL!!" will carve half your health if you don't heal... or don't use his shackle or an item that negates the blood curse. I get why people think an unavoidable curse attack is bad... but you're a mere mortal fighting a demigod empowered by a Lovecraftian Old One!
@@silverblade357 Yeah, and the Nihil is also in character, Mohg is stealing our blood. I never use the shackle or the purifying tear and I have no problems with Mohg. Three flasks to heal through the Nihil certainly doesn't make the fight too difficult. By that point we should have more than ten. And we can get unlimited boluses to cure the bleed build-up, the merchant is only a few steps away.
Great video. The demons souls formula has run its course . Not just in the combat style and mechanics , but even with the level design. Shortcuts stop becoming interesting or useful if you always expect them to find them the same way , for example , you start exploring a new area , immediately see a door you can’t open and you already know this is a shortcut . Ds1 had some surprises with the shortcuts. Now it’s just expected. From soft need innovation now more than ever . Also, why does Elden ring have the mechanic of losing runes upon death , it’s not particularly suited to this style of game . It’s just copied over. We need new ideas and mechanics to induce new emotions and tensions within the gameplay experience ( expanding on ideas like insight and world tendency is the right direction to go ) Z
hit the nail on the head, i loved the dlc though, just didnt enjoy the boss fights. felt like i had to do an over powered build or abuse a bug that made something hit harder then it was supposed to that would eventually get patched out.
In order for From to evolve, they need to refine the combat system to actually be supremely responsive and realistic. And they need to actually explore different movesets. From keeps relying on unfair enemy gimmicks now.
I'm a really REALLY bad Souls player myself, but I think to an extent, there's not really unavoidable attacks, I think you just have to dodge them in really unintuitive and unconventional ways. Like you can dodge Radahn's double slash by hugging his right knee. It remembers me of when I first played DS3, I really really really struggled with Gundyr and put down the game for a year, then I cheated past him and eventually went back and beat him normally on my first try. To me it felt like dodging out of his attacks and staying away from him made more sense but I needed to dodge into his attacks and hug his left leg. It's unconventional and doesn't exactly feel right, but it's entirely doable. That's how so many of the bosses in these games feel. I just feel like sometimes you all forget what it's like. I think you guys are now all finding something like that again for the first time in awhile where the way you're supposed to win defies your natural instincts so you just tell yourself it's impossible.
Man you are on point here, I absolutely love elden ring and the dlc, but I definitely felt on some bosses the difficulty was just a little frustrating/ dated compared to what the bosses were bringing, especially Rahdan, I love hard bosses, but damn! Lol, I'll do another run. Skip the frustrating bosses and camera issues, but the rest of the game was almost perfect, in my opinion. It's still my favorite game of all time. And Rahdan S tier boss, design and lore wise. The fight tho c/ c+ tier.
I honestly don't understand how it's too hard. If you get the scadutree fragments, you're fine. I'm an adult with a full time job and managed it two-handing Milady, having less than 51 poise, using no spirit summons. I can't imagine how easy you could make this game if you went with an OP colossal weapon and mimic tear. The game is as easy and you want to make it.
Just by looking at your build on the first few seconds of the video, I could already figure out why you didnt't like the DLC and I completely agree with you. I thought quickly to myself "no way hes beating Radahn with a build like that". And thats just the issue with this DLC, and maybe even with the base game in general that we couldn't see until now. Shadow of the Erdtree, or Elden Ring even for that matter, IS NOT an RPG or ARPG. Its a pure action game period. This DLC forces you to play in a very specific way to be overcome, and it used to be fine in the base game with the spirit ashes system, but now some people can't beat Radahn EVEN with spirit ashes. And the difficulty spike leading up to Radhan is just INSANE, it bends the difficulty bar backwards. I honestly though I straight up missed a few areas of the DLC when I got to Radahn because of that spike, but I didn't thats really just the way it was designed and honestly I do really think From went to far here and that all the criticism was warranted.
Until you use deflecting tear, or shields, or impenetrable thorns, or blood fiends arm, or bleed. Then all of a sudden your opinion becomes factually incorrect, and you just end up looking dumb. Edit: Also there are literally people killing radahn with only spirit ashes.
@@gefehede7783 The main problem with Radahn, is that canonically we shouldn't be able to ever beat him at all because thats the way he was conceived. The corrupted version of Radhan that we fight in the base game is just a shadow of an echo of a memory of what Radhan once was. The problem is that in the DLC, they actually wrote that in. And its just incompatible with the game design. You can't just fight the most canonically powerful demigod in the entire pantheon of this world throwing glintstone pebbles. That's why he breaks builds. Whats written is incompatible with the game design. Fighting prime Radahn here in ER is just like fighting prime Gwyn in Dark Souls 1, its just not written to be possible.
It really doesn't force you to play in a certain way; you just need to understand the systems well enough. I did a pure Dragon Communion build and killed Radahn with no armor or poise-strengthening talismans. I was a pure glass cannon and took him down in a few seconds. All you need to do to create an effective build that reaches 3000 damage is read the tooltips..
@@DouglasZanini Canonically, the entire reason you exist is to kill demigods. The whole point of the Tarnished is that they were the most fearsome warriors in the land, capable of slaying demigods. You are literally someone who lives in death but doesn't rot due to the blessing of grace. The demigods in the game, even in their prime, are not fit to be Elden Lord. The entire point of the gold mask ending is to realize that the ultimate flaw in the Golden Order was the demigods themselves-not because they were cursed or too powerful, but because they were arrogant, selfish, and corrupt. The Tarnished are the ones who killed the Fire Giants, who laid low the dragons, and who fought alongside Godfrey. Every one of the demigods was no match even for the original Elden Lord, who wasn't a demigod but a man who loved to fight and worshipped the Crucible.
@@Vhaal-666 Yes BUT you are forgetting one very important thing: the guidance of grace was extended to the tarnished. Which means, we arrive in the aftermath. The shattering already happened. Legends rose and fell. And we are basically just there to pick up the pieces. This is not bad in and of itself. But the problem is that when these demigods in their prime cease to exist only in legend and start to physically manifest to stand against you, which is what happened with Radahn here, then it breaks the difficulty pacing of the game. The entire game system was designed not to kill demigods in their prime, but to kill demigods has beens. And thats just the issue with the DLC that made From introduce a new mechanic, which was the scadutree fragments, to help you become powerful enough to be able to stand against a demigod in their prime. But it just doesn't work. Its not just a matter of mathematical power like, having the numbers enough to kill Radahn, it's a matter of mechanic. The prime Radahn fight is mechanically inconsistent with the rest of the game. I wont paraphrase everything that has been said about Radahn in this video, but suffice to say that the video was spot on.
If there isn't a developer-intended method of evasion with basic movements, it has gone too far. I don't want to have to use a shield, special equipment, or weapon art to dodge a swipe.
@@matsimurf_5900 seems lazily designed to you, cuz you suck ass at this game and want quick validation. So you come online like the vocal minority of scrubs to complain abt “boss design”. It’s a boss design issue, it’s a skill issue.
Roll > poke combatplay is already dated, FS has to step up their combat design. Thats the main issue with ER combatplay and specially accentuated in SOTE due to new enemies being more aggressive. Besides that, they went too far with world emptyness. I understand they want players to enjoy the enviroments without being constantly disturbed by enemies, but there are lot of places in SOTE that feel like they forgot to put something there. Lastly, SOTE difficulty revolves around scads frags, and thats another wrong and unnecessary design decision. Still, great DLC and absolutely great new enviroments, enemies, and weapons.
I'm just sitting here 2 years after release waiting for people to realize that this game is just a poorly balanced rehash of DS3. There was no careful and concious design behind the combat. Just looking at the spirit ashes system makes me cringe.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have the same feelings about DLC. It is frustrating to play with boring exploration and tedious bosses that I didn't enjoy beating. The challenge was unfair and Fromsoftware made difficulty only for difficulty sake which was never the point in their previous games. I have platinum trophy in every game they created since Demons Souls and I really tried to enjoy DLC but it was too exhausting.
I liked some things about the dlc. Progression system not tied to rune level, I like it. Most of the new weapons, I like them. The new talismans are great. PCR 2nd phase is trash. Sannesax is just awful. Too many enemies are too fast with too much poise and do too much damage. I shouldn't get stunlocked with the heaviest armor AND GET 2 SHOT. Might as well wear no armor.
@@DeadpoolX9 called hyper armour bro, maybe don’t mindlessly mash r1 and npc poise isn’t a problem. All bosses across every souls game has more poise than the player, mayve stop making excuses and learn to play the game
In my first playthrough of the dlc, I defeated Relanna in only 3 tries. I was 100% sure that this was due to my build and if in any way I was to replay this fight with a normal build (say Faith build) I would get demolished. My thoughts took flesh and bones when I made a second playthrough with a faith build and I got totally annihilated. Talking about 80 to 100 deaths or so. I totally hated everything about this boss.
Sketch I think playing with a shield and if u do wanna play a roll play style of which is my fave I really think light rolling helps dramatically til u learn the bosses movesets band how they attack
Don’t worry too much man because if they make a new game we’ll all be forced to start at level one. Meaning they don’t really have to make it any harder than it already is.
I agree with most of your points but I was still able to enjoy the DLC by optimizing my build and over power the bosses, without having to learn all the bosses 100%. And all the good points out ways a lot of the bad points with the bosses for me.
The biggest problem is 100% that the bosses are evolving in complexity and speed while our character is staying the same. From definitely realized this and instead of creating a new movement and combat system for ER, they just slapped a band-aid on it with spirit summon system, which totally goes in the other extreme and makes boss fights too easy and unrewarding.
They really aren't evolving in any way, at their core they the same as DeS bosses, down to the same AI patterns. The only thing changed is the amount of bs they throw at you - faster attacks, longer combos, immediate punishes, no windows for you to actually do anything, flashes and unreadable animations, delays and of course overtuned stats. It's the same primitive system trying to trick you it's more complex than it actually is.
The level design in the DLC is godtier. Probaly the best map ever created, exploration was fantastic. And it hasn’t lost people, Elden Ring is their biggest game by far in sales. But I do agree about some of the bosses.
It's funny, I also picked up Lies of P right after playing the DLC, and it did wash away the bad taste left by the DLC. I liked Elden Ring very much, I still think that the game up to Morgott is incredible, even with its recycled bosses and early dungeons being too straightforward (which is fair, they're essentially tutorial dungeons, but they get old fast and most are still too simple). Not to mention there's a truckload of MORE recycled shit after Morgott, so yeah. The ending is a drag and in my first playthrough I only wished the game would just end already. I think the problem is that they didn't want to risk incorporating design aspects from Sekiro. These games were more or less developed in tandem and by the point Sekiro had its reception, the foundation for Elden Ring was set already, even though I still think they had plenty of time for adjustments. In any case, playing Elden Ring is like getting bullied; you don't have tools to defend yourself, the enemies are disconnected from your gameplay, etc, all of which have been addressed by both Sekiro and, to a great extent, Lies of P. What I was expecting from SotE was changing course towards Sekiro, but instead they double down on terrible decisions made in the base game. FASTER enemies. MORE delayed attacks. WEAKER exploration. The DLC is way bigger than it should be: there are vast empty spaces, item rewards are mid at best, and optimization is sometimes comparable to OG Dark Souls 1. Although the world design is one of my favorite from FromSoftware and definitely something that will make me pick this up again, everything else mostly actually makes me dislike Elden Ring as a whole. I was playing it before the DLC, and I couldn't get myself back into that playthrough. I'm not optimistic of FromSoftware's future anymore. They are going down a very ugly path and they're getting praised for it.
Input delay, input buffering, constant frame drops on anything but small dungeons, even with setups 3 times stronger than "recommended", terrible camera, buggy lock on (it literally doesn't work half of the time, it should be, and always has been, proximity based), enemies that have every mechanical advantage over the player, even going as far as completely breaking previously established functionality, everything and everyone has 180/360 tracking, rng delays, rng combo extenders, input reading, 90% of the dlc loot is crafting materials and blessings, 40% of the dlc map is not even optional, but literally empty, if you ever did some quest even once, we still have no coop nor invasion nor colosseum rewards, nor covenants, and many game breaking exploits since release... 10/10, perfect game, git gud. White knights gotta chill. SoTE, and ER to some degree, has been the first time in the souls series we got an abundance of downgrades compared to previous titles in the series. Luckily, Miyazaki isn't satisfied with it either. Un-luckily, he is not the entire studio, and everyone sucks off ER so much, they realistically have no reason to improve. Let's hope for the best.
To clarify, I loved Elden Ring. World design is fantastic, it has some of the best dungeons in the series, I'd say overall the best dungeon global quality, some of the best bosses as well, they really pushed a very outdated engine to its limit in terms of what the player character can do while still being a (classic) souls game, weapon variety is the best we had, as well as weapon viability, both pve and pvp, art direction has been peak, almost every archetype revision has been improved if not perfected (cameos/references to previous enemies/bosses and such). It has so much good in it. But so much of its core mechanics and balancing, and even coding, is so inexcusably mid. It's their biggest budget project, with their biggest team ever, and their longest production time, and most revenue. Why would it ever be unpolished? Polish was the number 1 thing they should have aimed for. And it's not there, not to the lvls of BB, ds3, or sekiro, where everything and everyone felt perfectly crafted for the context they were in, from the design, to the execution, mechanics, balance, etc. So much of it is just... "this, but, MORE". As you stated, it feels like a parody of its former works. A lot of the new content even feels like it was a mod/fanfic
@averagesoul8256 look I love lies of p but we all know the only reason your praising the game is because they nerfed the bosses to the point it's braindead easy lmao
@@NeloBladeOfRanni wdym they only nerfed a couple of them and they gave you the off the ground dodge as part of your basic kit. they just made the game better. i dont think they are braindead easy. they are easy when you learn them efficiently but that can be said of every boss. on my first playtru i suffered at everythink from laxasia onward and that was post the nerf
same brother , i think this is their worst dlc yet. played it 7 times and im done with it forever. they lost sight of fun ways to kill the player. now its always delayed attacks long combos and short damage windows. all bosses are this. no interesting gimmicks nothing. every boss feels the same, enemies too i give it a 5/10. beautiful areas but they are empty and repetitive. some fun exploration , good weapons and a couple of good bosses. the rest is awful id also say whilst yes shadow of the collosus is a masterpiece but that game is not a combat game , theres not a lot of exploration , you move around solve a boss puzzle whilst looking at good looking environments . thats the game . its also 5 hours not 40. elden ring is an exploration combat game, you expect to fight cool shit. sure some empty areas are fine for lore reasons but theres way too many of them
You dislike the dlc but played it 7 times? why would you do that? I like the game and haven't played it through 7 times. Makes sense you'd be over it lol 7 times, jesus its a long game.
@@jordanmeyler9239 because i wanted to like it so i just forces myself to try it again and again. and i just cant at all. so after the 7th time i gave up and uninstalled the gamr
@@averagesoul8256 so you played a 50-100 hour game you didn't like 7 times to try and like it? If you don't like it just move on, I don't like tons of games. I just don't play them, alot of ppl scared of fomo with this one.
@@jordanmeyler9239 i liked the base game and the souls series is my favourite and its not 50 hours when you know what do,average subsequent playtru took around 3-4. since i was excited for the dlc i kept trying to see of its me but no in the end i think it just sucks
I have kinda the same problems with the Game, but I dont agree on Messmer he does clearly makes some Pause after a combo. I would say he is the best Boss in this Game. Isnt it funny that people defend all that bullshit in Elden Ring, people are really stupid FROMSOFTWARE was always Hard but Fair but no more I guess lol.
I'd say Messmer is fine until his 2nd phase. Phase 2 is where most of the BS starts appearing (camera issues, hitboxes etc). I agree his 1st phase is fine
For innumerable reasons I think Elden Ring and every game in its style since Dark Souls 1 are boring slop, but with the combat specifically the problem is not that it's Sekiro enemies vs. Dark Souls protagonist -- it's that the players insist on continuing to play like it's Dark Souls and then wonder why it's not working. Things like Guard Counter and Ash of War customization are new in this game, among other additions. I'm not talking about Spirit Ashes, just the new mechanics your own character specifically can perform. If you're not using them, that's like going from Megaman 1 to Megaman 2, 3, or 4 and refusing to use the slide, charge, or Rush. It'd be no surprise that you'd have a bad time! Then again, this game is monotonous repetitive garbage so it's not even worth the effort to engage on that level to begin with
Boring slop hhh wow, that's exactly how I feel when I played dark souls 1, elden ring is the best game ever made, you are not special for liking the old thing and hating the new thing.
The camera is the one thing I find really inexcusable. The way it drops the lock on, obscures the huge flailing bosses, refuses to lock on to stuff that is "too far" while still close enough to instantly attack you, and the other jank it constantly does. Needs a fucking fix.
My only problem (s) with ER is the lack of good loot from exploring. Big empty spaces especially in the finger region of the map. Reused bosses. I was hoping they'd learn from the base game's mistakes but apprantly not.
I get why those three areas are empty thematically... but they could've been smaller. Like, the two finger areas could've also been underground like the third, instead of taking up whole chunks of the map for little reason. The Abysmal Woods is okay though. That place was proper terrifying.
The only issue I had was with the final boss, and not necessarily for the difficulty but for the flashing animations. I liked the DLC, but I feel the engine needs to step up now. Give us better combat camera and FOV.
I hear what your saying and I gotta humbly disagree the bosses in the dlc to me was amazing yeah Radahn has an unavoidable attack atm with that triple cross slash and I don’t remember metyr laser as she never really gave me any problems for me to remember that move but if it’s undodgable then I also agree that shouldn’t be the case however because of 2 bosses with 1 badly design move doesn’t mean I will say the dlc is trash??? I personally enjoyed my time in the dlc I didn’t rush it on my first playthrough I explored everything that I could find I enjoyed all of the remembrance bosses yes even gaius my favourite being Bayle or Messmer. The camera in my experience wasn’t bad and I never felt that I was getting 2-3 shotted by any bosses and I had like 55 vigor and non optimal armor as I’m most definitely a Fashion Ring player. Every boss in my experience felt fair and learnable with Radahn being the only 1 I went in with a game plan after he beat my ass for about 6 hours every other boss I got done within an hour with Bayle and Messmer being the only ones to take longer other than Radahn. Yes Phase 2 Radahn is hard but he is also learnable as I did manage to dodge his attacks multiple times and no I’m not a sweaty try hard player I go to work and I come home at like 4am where I would put like 1 - 2 hours a day into Elden Ring before going to sleep. I enjoyed the DLC and it’s a shame you don’t feel the same way as me. But maybe on another playthrough you might see it in a different light
That's cool man, I'm glad you enjoyed it. At least you explained why you like it, instead of just shouting "git gud" like half the people are doing here, so thanks 🙂
I’m surprised you like the new environments more than the base game. I thought it was far too dark, drab, and boring. Nothing inspired awe, like seeing the steps leading up to Leyndell, for example, or the gorgeous blue sky of Liurnia. At any rate, I agree 100% with your assessment on the combat. So often, it becomes an almost non-interactive event, where you have almost no options.
This. Besides the initial Gravesite Plains view, everything else seemed drap. No Leyndell, Elphael or Liurnia feeling. Its still a great game but something feels......off.
The bosses are the worst thing ever. From Software is no longer trying to entertain the player, they are now competing with the player. This means the bosses have more utility than the player can cope with using reasonable means. Basically, they are trying to overwhelm the player on purpose.
I completely agree on the poise / armor and speed. That has been a big problem with elden ring. The delayed attacks are ridiculous in ER. How you going to have Mogh who has a HUGE spear but literally his moves are super fast. I'd expect him to be slower, low poise. Dude is in cloth. Like what happened with just rolling through everything like the dark souls series.
Good review, Sketch and you made some valid points. I personally liked the dlc but I agree its not without its problems. Initially I think there was too much emphasis on creating bosses that could one or two shot you, or making instant attacks where you couldn't even bring your summon in before getting killed although they did patch the damage somewhat. I also didn't like how the final boss basically reduced the challenge to just a game of defense and poking the boss behind a greatshield as virtually the only viable strategy. This leaves the player with no real sense of reward at the end imho. Even the game's basic enemies e.g. the Messmer soldiers could pulverise your hp with just a few hits, its just overkill and this has been a growing trend in Fromsoft games, which is worrying as basic enemies should not do this much damage. The Scadutree fragments help to an extent but I still think the damage is inconsistent at times, case in point is the guy at the start of the plain in his underwear with the claws, he can demolish you even if you have 13 scadutree blessings like I did at that point! From really need to readdress enemy damage in future games and not have any enemy wipe you out regardless of your hp or armour or damage negation items, all of which are at times seemingly irrelevant in this dlc. And again the map system is at fault because it simply does not account for verticality at all, a prime example of this are the locations of the Cerulean coast and Charo's hidden grave as the grace sites are right next to one another on the map, yet the map does not account for one is way higher up than the other and miles away! So, for me Shadow of the Erdtree is a good dlc but not without its issues and there are times as you say its just difficult for difficulty's sake.
The funny thing is the best boss in this dlc for me was messmer and i think for alot of people so hard and fair is the best recipe for great boss fight, I don't think hard and frustrating was the point of these games😓
I dont think ER character is as slow as DS1. More like DS3, which was significantly faster. Tyat being said, I agree with some of the criticism. I feel like SotE mobs dont really have an identity, other than their graphical design, because they all leap around, attack a million times with no downtime, are fast, have insane amounts of hyper armor, so on and so forth. I've really enjoyed all of From DLCs so far, as they're usually the best part of the game. And I loved the design, ambient and lore of this one. But it definitely felt like it was way too hard just for the sake of catering to the pseudo hardcore crowd. In my mind, Malenia's waterfoil was already the step too far, as it required you to abuse ai behavior or use one of the handful of counterplay if you couldnt dodge it perfectly.
Bro…this dlc is a lot easier than the main game. By a lot!!! The only challenge was beating Mesmer he was the only challenge and consort Radan. Everything else was easy
With how many scadutree blessing you wrote this analysis? The decision to make scadutree blessing is 3000iq, you separate the ppl who just want to rush the dlc and find the cool stuff from the ppl that take it slowly and explore. Exploration was always key in Elden Ring.
Fuck everyone who wants to play the game in certain ways the game game offers you to play. Fuck everyone who doesn't want to grind and run through empty fields for dozens and dozens of hours.
Interesting critique. It’s cool to see how different each person experiences this game. The game is great and the dlc is great. It just sounds like the way the game is made is just not for you and that’s okay. I agree that the camera can be really bad and that should be fixed. At this point there’s no excuse for a bad camera. The combos can get long but it seems like you’re not taking the time to learn the openings. For example, the laser attack from Metyr can be dodged by jumping over it. Messmer has like 2-3 seconds of standing still after his spear ash of war combo. Anyways great video and interesting critique. I definitely agree with some of the overturned bosses but I also can see that it’s just not your cup of tea which is fair.
The only way the game can be harder is if they increase their attack chains, and decrease their opening windows for attacks. I don't know what to tell you. It sounds like you just want it to be easier. Which is fine, but just say you want the DLC to be easier.
Or hear me out, they can actually make a new much deeper combat system (like they already did twice) that wouldn't require to squeeze every last bit of complexity out of itself by using cheap tricks like delays and flashbangs after every attack? Also did you know souls games were never actually hard nor was difficulty their main point? Crazy, isn't it?
@@MachoMaamRandallSandwich I should be grateful for the game I bought with my own money? From didn't gift it to me nor to anyone else. What kind of shill take is this?
I like the dlc but I do think From Soft need to up their enemy AI game. Enemies go from flailing around basically to slowly walking at u with their guards down
Yeah, especially if they keep the spirit summons too. People say the game is tuned around spirit ashes, but the enemy AI is absolutely idiotic when it tries to deal with multiple targets
I agree with this more than I want to. I love fighting bosses with self-imposed challenges however if it takes 1000 tries to get it done then it simply becomes exhausting and makes me resentful toward gaming. I'm not using summons and I'm not going to make myself overpowered, it's not how I prefer to play.
Sorry u didn’t like it. I like it but u really wanna use an arcane build or a weapon with innate bleed on this dlc which I see you’re using the moon veil which is cool. Things u can do to help are damage negation tears, items and spells and collecting the scaudtree fragments and if u have the rune arcs using Morgott’s Great Rune and def try to be higher level with atleast 60 vigor
I love Elden Ring but chose to watch some of my favourite steamers play the dlc instead as I hated the difficulty scaling thing they added and knew it would just be the developers indulging in their obsession with being difficult. The lack of meaning difficulty is absolutely spot on, so many frustrated players who began to cheese the game rather than play their own way and many have moved on from the game already. Imo they should have just let you create a new character for the dlc for challenge or have your power carry over from the vanilla game to destroy the dlc content.
I think my issue with the dlc is what you mentioned - that it feels that you are often forced to change your playstyle or build to adapt to the game's difficulty. Now, that sounds totally acceptable to ask of the player in a sense, but I feel like the dlc pressured the players to adapt or assimilate more extremely than before, to the point of sometimes not being fun. I've beaten the dlc and struggled mightily vs final boss, but I did it. I just didn't really enjoy a few bosses but loved others
My brother in Christ, you didn’t git gud. It’s not a term meant to belittle and mock, it’s tough love from a big brother who has your best interest at heart. When you git gud, you enter into a dance with the boss; a rhythm and flow that is immensely rewarding when you’ve mastered the roll and your ability to read the boss, time your roll and position wisely for an open attack. You are face-tanking bosses, spamming weapon arts. It’s quite clear you’ve resisted the advice, presumably because it put a bad taste in your mouth because you felt talked-down-to. I got Messmer to phase two on my first attempt. That’s not a brag, but a testament to the results of gitting gud. I don’t use mimic or buffs. Light armor with a great katana- that’s it. When you git gud, the skill you’ve developed nullifies the difficulty. You’re just bad. Git gud.
@@jaydunna2645SOTE is full of most players asking, "How the fuck do I get down/up/over there?!" The answer turning out to be a random illusory wall or hidden behind an emote trigger is just kinda ass.
I think the game’s hitboxes are fine but some of,the other issues u have with the enemies is somewhat valid. I think the camera is fine too but it would be nice if there was a way to zoom out or raise the camera with some more camera options
If so, what constitutes a hitbox being "fine", like what, no room for improvement? You would object if they were 1:1? I don't understand this...are you afraid From games will become worse if the weapon models have to actually hit you consistently to register? What is "fine" about dying to thin air? There is obviously a huge opportunity for improvement there, they certainly are not fine. The camera is atrocious. Yeah... you're not a sincere commenter. Just another apologist.
@@matsimurf_5900 From a technical standpoint the hitboxes are pretty damn good. No game is perfect btw. Post a clip of a bad hitbox from ur own gameplay and link it
Yeah, the Nihil thingy imo is right on the edge of BS. There is a quest item to neutralize it, the main issue is that finding that item is extremely hidden. If it was just inside Mohgwyn palace it would be fair
I get what youre saying but i prefer it to be difficult. If this dlc was easy everyone would cry about it. Its supposed to be harder than the main game. I didnt see any undodgable attacks from radahn yet btw. Did you mean the attack where he pulls you in into guaranteed damage? Its reactable
I generally agree with you, and would recommend checking out Nioh/Nioh 2 based on your criticisms about the combat. That said though, I can’t help but feel based on your clips that you might have been underleveled for some of these fights. Maybe it’s because I went with a strength build but I was doing a fair bit more damage and stagger against the annoying AF yoda-from-episode-3 enemies and I actually thought the Golden Hippo wasn’t too bad. The final boss did take me a LONG time though. His three hit combat is actually dodgeable, but your point there still stands because you shouldn’t rely on players to be pulling off frame perfect dodges for an extremely common attack. Luckily I had a shield so I just blocked it, lol.
I tried Nioh 2 and refunded it after catching on video where I initiated an attack, and then an enemy activated his grab attack which gives him super armor and deals 90% of my health. I also got hit by another enemy at the same time. That other enemy I could've avoided, but it's unforgivable to have an enemy activate super armor and kill me after I'm locked into my input. How am I supposed to attack at all if the enemy can punish me from attacking in a neutral position?
@@ForceEdge47 The enemy shouldn't be able to initiate an attack and kill me after I initiated my attack and am locked into an animation when I initiated my attack when the enemy was standing still. Every time I attack, it's literally a dice roll of whether or not the enemy decides to reduce 90% of my maximum health.
@@youcantbeatk7006 I'm sorry man but the enemy shouldn't be able to initiate an attack after you've initiated yours? What kinds of games are you playing where enemies stop and wait for your attack to complete its animation before they retaliate? You activated an attack that wasn't strong enough to flinch them out of their grab, that's not uncommon in both this game and tons of other games. In fact, in my experience grabs are usually pretty high tier in terms of how much hyper armor they have and should just be side stepped. Maybe you should have waited until the enemy made their move and then made yours? Because that's what the enemy did to you, essentially, and it's not something that you couldn't have done instead. Not trying to sound like a dick but what you're describing sounds like you just timed it wrong, and refunding the game because you mistimed your attack and got grabbed makes it sound like you might have a better time playing a turn based RPG instead. If someone at IGN had docked points from the game because this happened to them they would be getting absolutely cooked in the comments section.
@@ForceEdge47 "That's not uncommon." Name a single encounter in any other game where an enemy deals most of your health with a hyper armored attack in a group fight. And how am I expected to "just wait" in a group fight where enemies shoot stunning projectiles that can potentially kill me off a single hit? Other games don't do this, and he's blatantly lying for implying they do. In other games, the enemy either has his attack canceled from being hit by my attack, or my attack hits and the enemy is so slow that I still have the opportunity to dodge.
While everyones milage on their enjoyment with a difficult experience may of course vary, I am very much confused by how often people accuse the DLC of being "just frustrating and not fun anymore" when being frustrating was always the main intent of so many of Froms design decisions ever since Demon Souls. It's the idea of putting you up against seemingly insurmountable odds to hopefully create a great sense of achievement when you overcome them. And for me at least, looking back at my first playthroughs of DS3 and Bloodborne especially, I was oftentimes so incredibly frustrated with my experience of bosses like Midir or the Orphan of Kos, that any sense of fun or enjoyment was long gone by the time I finally beat them. In comparison Shadow of the Erdtree was way more enjoyable to me, because if I ever decided that I didn't want to deal with the aspect of challenge the game presented, I could just whip out one of the dozens of powerful weapon, spell and summon options to get over that hurdle and continue playing the game the way I want to, while leaving the "gettin gud" aspect for a subsequent playthrough.
9:43 DS3 had way worse perfect tracking enemies, I dont know why people say this about DS2 you can dodge by just walking around most attacks in DS2, the tracking isnt a problem at all
Git gud Nah... I'm just joking. Agree with a lot of it. I beat most bosses in the DLC by working out what gear and item setups worked the best rather than learning the boss itself. Especially Radahn. I basically just stacked enough dps to nuke him down before the lightshow starts 😐
People totally missing the point - we’ve beat the game. We’ve beat the dlc. I’ve personally beaten it twice, and the base game 20. I have full scadutree and spirit ash. The POINT is that the game is NO FUN. It’s just frustrating to play. The intent of video games is supposed to be a fun challenge, and this doesn’t come anywhere near accomplishing “fun”. I’m hoping they go with a whole new skeletal structure for the movement and combat system for future games because this feels mechanically old as hell.
to get my money’s worth, and finish quest lines I missed. To give it a second chance because after all the time I put into base game, I didn’t want to write it off immediately.
@@Haydentrudyjones that's wild, I don't even finish games I don't like. I agree ppl shouldn't play games they don't enjoy. Maybe this game isn't for you, if you want them to rehaul the core gameplay. There's alot of fans that like the series and core gameplay if you'd like a different game why not play something else?
because I was a fan of their previous games, like bloodborne and demons souls. But have singed realized, not only have they failed to truly evolve their games in any meaningful way, but other studios like neowiz and shift up have shown they can do the souls formula better and still bring the next gen experience. There is something genuinely alluring about the souls games and their formula, but it has reached its limits with its current structure. It needs updating. But I feel Miyazaki and fromsoft are being held in a chokehold by gif gud fans who want a dark souls re-iteration every few years and they’ve just lost creative ways to make the games challenging. This is an honest opinion of someone who has enjoyed the games and wants to enjoy future ones more than I did this absolutely punishing DLC.
@@Haydentrudyjones fans do want a dark souls iteration, that's the thing. Fans of the genre want more of the genre and from is the only company that does it well. I don't know the companies u mentioned by name but I'm assuming one is lies of p which is not even close to from level bosses and enemy design. I think most of the og fans are happy with more souls with added complexity. Fortunately based on recent interviews from is going to diversify their offerings, so hopefully you can get some new stuff you like and fans of the souls formula can still enjoy those games. For myself and ppl I know playing since ds1 Elden ring is the magnum opus of contemporary gaming
@@unpingouinsurlabanquise4574 My point here is that difficulty can be extreme. Like F & H. Or it can be variable. Like Elden Ring, Do you think it's going to the point of absurdity where these two converge?
I like it but I agree. Dont love it, I almost think Elden Ring is general is just simply too big. I know a weird critique but its kinda how I always felt about the game
No it’s not, very few bosses have delayed attacks long enough that you can get an attack off before they get theirs. Even when that’s a possibility it puts you at a significant disadvantage since they could just input read you and let it loose right then and there.
@galientl4723 of course, it's a opening, some windows can be too short for a colossal weapon, I can give you that, but still with colossal weapons, in mesmer for example, I could give one poke (the r1 right after a roll) in each one of his attacks in a certain combo, and that's is with a colossal weapon, if you use faster weapons you can absolutely atack between delayed attacks like it's nothing, this game rewards aggressiveness, you can go for posture breaks, or just build up some stats effects like bleed or frozen, so you can attack the boss at every turn with those strats.
@@ruanvictorcabraldelima4752 it’s not possible to reliably attack Rahdan in between combos. Again certain bosses allow this but most of the more difficult ones don’t. Mesmer if anything is on the easier side as far as DLC bosses.
@galientl4723 yeah, I can agree with radhan too, but he is the oddball of the bunch, rellana, mesmmer, the lion (I forgot his name), midra, golden hippo, bayle, all have fair and punishable windows to attack, either between combos, or in the mid of one.
@@ruanvictorcabraldelima4752 all have attack windows in between combos but several like Lion, Putrid Knight, and Rellana don’t have consistent windows in the midst of their combos. Especially Rellana since she can mix up her combo mid string and Segway into an entirely new one before hopping away.
Everything other than the final boss has been incredibly manageable, and much of it HAS been relatively easy. If it's been hard for you, all I can recommend is try using more of the tools the game gives you. Use defensive talismans, experiment with weapon arts, try out using summons. You don't have to pick the mimic year, use one that's a bit weaker so the boss still feels challenging. Idk, at the end of the day it's OK for players like you to enjoy the old games more, but that doesn't mean the newer games are intrinsically bad.
i very much disagree which this take, 2 years ago i was frustrated with the base game , delayed attack, extended move from combo enders, annoying ass enemy like Miriam, royale revenant, Malenia, Maliketh, Godskin Duo being annoying shit in my first time. But giving a second playthrough and being more patient and knowledgable. I enjoyed it a whole ton lot, delayed attack is no longer an issue as most of the time you can strafe it and rewards you with a lot of punish window, extended combo become a fun reaction test as now i know when they are coming and makes the fight more dynamic. annoying enemies usually have counters to them like royale revenant can be stun with healing incantation or weak to holy in general, or Godskin Duo being susceptible to sleep. its a fun time, but it takes time to get a grip on it. Shadow of the Erdtree is basically the same for me, frustrated at first and complain about high damage, crazy ahh combo. But again, learning how to deal with them feels incredibly rewarding, high damage usually just negated by the Scadutree Fragment, and people need to stop forcing themselves to keep actively search for them, theres a lot that comes by naturally, and each legacy dungeon has at least one too, each path leading to a remembarance boss also have couple that scattered around, and you don't need to go full +20 and burn yourself out, my second playthrough of the DLC i ended it with 14+ fragment and i have more fun that way, and Fromsoft buff it so that only the first 10 level matter the most, and the rest of the level is just bonus if you are still struggling. Dancing Lion use to be a huge pain in my ass cause the camera so i usually sprint into the middle of the arena to avoid being at the corner of the arena, thus avoiding the camera issue i had, Messmer has a insane delay spear thrust that is design to fuck you over with your natural instinctive dodges but after learning that, force myself to delay the timing, or even, get a hit in before dodging while he's doing the delay do wonders. Or Bayle with his relentless combo that piss me off always makes me go "Are you done??" to figuring out all of his move have punish window utilizing it is incredibly gratifying. I won't say SOTE has perfect difficulty, but i can't lie. I enjoy it a ton, i guess the difficulty curve is really too steep, either you hate it and get frustrated or being incredibly enjoyable and can see the complex design behind the enemy or area, MIriam is still a big bitch too.
That's what I'm saying. I thought I was the only one. The only boss that was hard for me was radhan.. I don't really understand how different this was from the base game honestly.
@@omarionalbert1705 Same here - I had a blast with the DLC, and Radahn was a fun way to spend 3 days of practicing. Thumbs-up to From for not making things easier, but force you to re-think your build, your approach, and your stubborn way of playing without any of the tons of tricks, they threw in there.
Some "git gud-er" literally tried to flame me for playing the DLC on NG+, saying it was my fault that the game was hard, because I committed to a single character 😂 They're helpless idiots, every single one.
I'm currently doing the dlc rl1 no blessings, the bosses are super fun and fair for the most part, just need to learn, they sure are hard but it's a souls game wadyu expect
@@IsshinTheSwordSaintTTV you casuals need to wake up and stop being so delusional thinking the entire world revolves around you. These games are meant to be difficult they aren't meant for casuals with the IQ of a gold fish like you
I beat the final boss on my 2nd attempt using a basic spear and a shield. It's not unfair or too hard. It's just an RPG that expecte you to use the various tools at your disposal. I think player flexibility is the answer.
Meaningful difficulty ends where skill and determinetion does, so it definetely varies from person to person. Personally I liked the dlc bosses more than a base game for not being a cake walk.
The game gives you more powerful tools to fight these powerful bosses with. If you are choosing to not use NPC summons Ashes of War, jumping, sheilds, heavy armor, and a variety of weapons then you are intentionally making the game harder for yourself and complaining the difficulty is too hard. It's like playing a JRPG and getting mad that some enemies are strong to lightning attacks so your party built around lighting is bad against them instead of adapting your build to include other options.
Thank you for actually pointing this out. Since I finished the DLC (which I enjoyed a ton) I was left with this sensation of "People treated Dark Souls 2 very harshly for less than this, yet this DLC is considered a masterpiece by the majority".
It's because Miyazaki was not involved with DS2. If he had been I guarantee the game would be thought of as a masterpiece and anyone pointing out its flaws would be shouted down just like how it's happening with Elden Ring
@@MrSketchead If he had been involved it wouldn't be as terrible as it was, so yeah, definitely would've received less criticism. ER is my least faavourite souls game after 2, but at least it's functional which is more than can be said about the mess that is SOTFS. I haven't even started your video but after that dimwitted DS2 comment I don't think I'll bother wasting my time.
@ennayanne Ds2 has its issues but even Miyazaki himself has said he’s looked back at that game in particular for it’s interesting mechanics among other things and took inspiration from it and applied it to elden ring (Scott Judd has a good video covering the interview).
@@ennayanne You just proved his point LMAOOOO
it's because the scarlet brain rot is spreading
Every boss feels like a checklist of unintuitive, delayed, lightning fast, combo branches, combo extensions, etc.
Its a chore of having to differentiate them, memorize them, internalize the timings. Like I can do it... I did do it... But god its just soooo tedious. Like I remember learning Gael and each time you cam just run in, act and react, and just ambiently learn the boss. These bosses feel like I need a sheet of paper to take notes and review gameplay footage 😂.
The constant attacking from enemies, their hyper armor and the absolute trash item placements are my biggest problems with this DLC.
Strat-edgy production described it best, other games aim to maintain and train you for the "flow state" of combat while ER deliberately try to throw you off and surprise/trick you by breaking your concentration/rhythm with feints/delay attack/aoe spam all in the name of "hardest game"
Except he meant that as a positive
@@obsolescentmystic2527 yes, and that is a negative for me
@@obsolescentmystic2527 that is a sign of brain damage by this game,if you ask me.
Correct, Elden Ring challenges you while other games tutoritalize the boss to the point you really can't lose. They drill all the problem solving right out of the boss fights because they all bought into this idea bosses are final exams. They can be, but they don't have to be what so ever.
Elden Ring bosses are not final exams. They are challenges made to the player. They are designed to kill you, not make you feel good cuz you 1 shot the final exam but because you overcame to monumental challenge presented to you.
Final Exam boss mentality has ruined so many bosses because the game spends so much time beating you over the head with how to fight them properly that once you grt to them theres nothing to do. Nothing to figure out, nothing to puzzle out, nothing. Just do what the game taught you the previous 4 hours and you'll win.
Booooooooring.
@@aureateseigneur5317 games are made to be beaten, all games are that way, its not a matter of "if" you can beat it but "when" and "how" can you beat it. This is like the most fundamental principal in game designing. If you think ER devs are "smart" or "right" to simply go against that principle then im sorry youre just wrong and you dont know why games are fun or challenging.
I find it laughable that you think "ER bosses cant be 1 shot" when it is entirely possible and easy even. All they did to make the bosses "hard" was the following:
- removes their set combo and instead give them "distance based combo branches" to break the anticipation of "bosses stamina".
- have bosses do animation reads to artificially make the enemies harder
- disorient players with feints/delay attacks and unparriable moves to artificially inflate the trial and error aspect of the game
None of those things makes a game more interesting or engaging, it only chases the artificial difficulty so souls fan can stroke their ego and tell people to "git gud". On the other hand those same design choices break immersion, favors style beyond substance and reduce engagement in the fight. When i play for example MH im always immersed in the hunt and most of the times the monster felt fair/balance and well telegraphed which grips me harder into the game. Meanwhile ER with its design philosophy makes me feel like fighting combo dispensing machines with cheats that force the player into submission, there is no immersion or satisfaction in beating that lifeless machine type of boss.
You are sorely mistaken if you think just make a boss "hard" is somehow good design, imagine a boss that have a bazillion HP, every hit you do is set to 1 dmg while everything they do is a 1 hit kill cinematic grab attacks that last 15s, players would still find a way to beat the boss but that boss is a shit design. An actual "hard" thing is research in a lab, create/invent something unique, not playing a "hard" game that give you the illusion of hardship via it's trial and error based design. Being hard is not the point of souls game, if fromsoft is hellbent on chasing difficulty with cheap and disorienting designs then i guess the souls games are not for me anymore, time to find something else or heck, make my own type of game i would play.
I've been caught by Radahns grab despite being behind him. Peak bad hitbox.
ye thats cuz he 180s mid jump. same with one of messmers attack where if you are behind him youll outright see the model just do a 180 mid attack with not animation, the boss just changed direction. so well designed
I've had the same thing happen with the Furnace golem. Their grab has a football field sized hitbox
@@averagesoul8256 He doesn't 180. 90 degrees maybe, you can sprint around it.
But but but but..muh difficulty :>
There was no spinning involved. Rather a teleportation into his arms. The sort of jank that really should have eliminated by now.
Yeah, the bosses in the DLC are more than a bit overturned. I wouldn't say they are "harder" Melenia, who I never actually defeated without co-op cheese, whereas I've been able to solo all of the DLC up to the final boss. That said, the DLC bosses are otherwise still all way harder than anything else from the base game.
The long combo strings with short window of vulnerability are a big art of that, but something I don't see brought up nearly as much is just how quickly the bosses start their aggression in the first place. In the base game most bosses have an initially slow approach, which is important because the player can't actually summon their spirit ash until stepping through the fog. In the DLC however, boss don't just have faster attacks, they can also close distance just quickly and punish any attempt to use spirit ash from the start.
I agree with this so much , it’s exactly what I’ve been saying … this DLC while impressive on many fronts has poor combat and poor scaling . There is no weakness or no strategic planning to abuse said weakness , they are all fast and have a ton of HP and poise … you can’t tell me this is a skill issue when I’ve beaten the dlc in full , this is a “fun” issue .. is it really fun to fight the same types of bosses and enemies? Not to mention the actual repeat bosses … I can’t believe I paid 60$ CAD to fight I falling star beast again in a empty area full of fingers … or fight the same stupid dragon we fought a million times in the base game but the only difference is it’s “ghost flame” now lol … I could go on about just the repeat bosses alone but it’s really the combat that’s disappointing for me
There wasn’t that much repeat bosses, you’re stretching, besides, this is a dlc, not a brand new game, so it’s unreasonable to not have any overlap in enemies/bosses. And all the bosses do have ample time to attack, it’s not just about dodging but positioning, if you position yourself well, you can get an extra hit or two in depending on the boss.
What are you talking about? You can kill each boss very quickly. No strategy? Did you forget about all the conditionals, items, buffs, weapon skills, and stat planning, along with all the new innate armor effects?
I killed Mesmer in less than 30 seconds with no fragments because everyone complaining that it’s too difficult has never read a tooltip or learned how to actually play the game. It’s like people saying Rykard was too hard when they didn’t even realize you can upgrade the Serpent Hunter, or complaining about Godfrey when you can just throw knives at him and he will die within a few seconds, etc.
You’re all trying to play Dark Souls when Elden Ring is Demon’s Souls on steroids.
@@joshsmith8715 although I see your opinion that’s just not true … the hinterlands for example .. I was expecting a crazy new boss especially since it was the finger ruins and marikas hometown … instead we got two tree sentinals and a falling star beast lol … I could name every bullshit repeat boss on the dlc but id rather not waste my time . Seems like you already made your decision about it regardless of what I say… and for positioning , okay there is some truth to that , but it’s beside the point I was trying to make dude , the bosses are playing in sekiro speed while are playing in dark souls . Your character feels at a natural disadvantage no matter what you do . So what’s the solution to that ? Broken builds that feel like your cheesing or playing 8 hours a day trying to memorize their moveset … it’s just not good game design .
Bro you’ve not played the game if you think ghsotflame dragons are the same😂 they only share the soundtrack nothing more
People are quick to say skill issue because from what you’ve described, you lack serious skill and knowledge on how the game works.
Get good
@@Vhaal-666What are you talking about? Not everyone wants to masturbate some cheese build like you to skip the bos. We just want a better variety basic player moves and less pathetic scamplay from fromsoft, to make the game fun, as well as a challenge.
You put into words what I couldn't while playing the dlc. I was afraid I was the only person losing their mind playing this. I remember enjoying the base game two years ago, but once I started the dlc I couldn't remember being so frustrated before. It is a beautiful game but the combat ended up feeling like I was working at a crappy job without getting any pay. Whenever I beat a boss it wasn't joy or excitement but just relief that it was over. There will always be idiot savants who can beat the game at level one, but for everyone else, it's just an unhappy slog.
It's like the problems I had and the things I liked with the base game but even more extreme
See the problem is that this fanbase is filled with people who care about nothing _but_ difficulty, and think doing something as insane as _forty_ tries on a boss is normal. They then go on to call well-designed bosses bad because they could beat them on the first try and weren't stuck for an hour or more on them.
I was talking to someone like this once and he said how beating the boss, no matter how frustrating, gives you a huge sense of accomplishment. I pointed out to him that when the boss is this frustrating, you are just happy that it's over and likely never want to fight it again. These games are increasingly catering to a fanbase of lunatics who only care about punishingly difficult boss fights to the detriment of everything else.
@Otakumanu That’s a good way to put it I coul play their earlier games up to Sekiro infinitely and even if a boss took me a while it felt like there was always area for mistakes to properly learn a boss.
I have felt that constantly on my playthroughs of elden ring first time specifically at end game and for some DLC bosses like Radahn I felt such a big shift in a lot of the bosses and enemies being hard for the sake of being hard and not taking in the learning process for the player into account.
After 5 years of playing there games and beating every one and every boss no other has just made me feel relief I don’t have to fight that boss again as consistently as elden ring has, even ones like Malenia I learned to like I see WFD and even knowing how to dodge it it gives me a knee jerk reaction since there is no discernible, well communicated way to dodge it, and this seems to be a trend which makes learning some of there bosses unnecessarily frustrating.
Also unrelated, but it’s sad to me not one decent duo boss exists in their supposed pinnacle souls game yet AC had several great ones. Even Ds2 had a few great duo bosses.
Did you use summons?
What percentage of the "gitgud" crowd are just trying to justify the amount of time they spent on the game? Like a warped sunk cost fallacy type thing.
It's funny how many people commenting here are proving the exact point I'm making from 16:35 onward. This community is truly something "amazing"
Yeah, exactly. These games are about spending time learning the bosses moves
I don't know where you're getting sunk cost fallacy from. It literally has nothing to do with feeling like you wasted money on the game if you don't want to spend the time learning
@@randychristensen1028 The sunk cost is the time investment.
I would also say a large portion of them summon mimic tear and use broken tools like fingerprint shield, or comet azure, or mohg spear build, etc. So their experience isnt even comparable to ours. I remember talking to a friend and he was telling me how he beat Divine Beast in 3 tries and Rellana in 2 and my jaw hit the floor until I saw his gameplay 😂
@@randychristensen1028You only have to "learn the moves" because the mechanics are warped. Seeing the move should be enough, otherwise it's repeat attempts to discover how the mechanics warp physics to fool the player. I feel like a beta tester.
Sekiro and lies of p both are my favorite combat ever in a video game. I love both those games combat.
Sekiro and Bloodborne gameplay is just better than both Dark Souls and Elden Ring purely because they were designed around a specific feel. I adore all things Fromsoft, but I'd trade the next Elden Ring for another Bloodborne or Sekiro.
@@silverblade357I really hope the next From Software game use a mix of Bloodborne and Sekiro combat
The community has become a parody of itself. Git Gud was a joke souls vets would say to new players who'd complain about difficulty because we knew that the games weren't very difficult, they just took some learning. Now it's like Fromsoft fans are trying to rewrite history saying that difficulty was always the point.
That's quite reductive. Difficulty isn't the whole point of a souls game that everything else serves but it is very much an intrinsical part of these games.
The bosses of base Elden Ring are extremely well balanced around what you can access around them. Obvious examples being gravitas, haligdrake talisman, and a cache of smithing stone all being with a short jog of each other in Limgrave just before Margit. All the way to Malenia being easy to stagger but punishing to make mistakes as you have access to essentially everything. Boiled crab, drakecrest greatshield, extremely powerful AoW like Lions Claw and Bloundhound and so much more.
The DLC is much the same. With a popup emphasizing the important of Scadutree fragments as well as giving an upgraded Lions Claw, Blade of Mercy, and Deflecting Hardtear without facing a single or particularly complex enemy outside the unarmored Furnace Golem which can be killed by an idiot at RL58 with a Frozen Needle (hi how's it going).
Elden Ring and its DLC are designed around rewarding exploration with numerical strength and increased options. I've watched your videos; you declare the majority of SotE's rewards as useless since you choose not to use them. This is not a flaw in the game's design, you have chosen to limit your options in a game that is designed around these options. Deliberately cutting off items and abilities is in its own way a challenge run.
Aside from PC Radahn and Bayle, no boss in the dlc gave me as much trouble as Maliketh let alone Malenia. They all each have their own strengths and weakness and it is up to the player to exploit them. Either through their own trial and error or from sharing information and experiences.
To often critics decide to ignore the social aspects of these games for some reason. If you're enjoying the dance of the fight or exploring the world then enjoy, if something is walling you its fine to watch someone doing an odd roll or some parry timings.
@@sewnmind1786just because you can break the bosses with cheesy items doesnt mean the game is any less unfair for people who want to use their brain
@@Slate674 Want to use your brain huh? In this very same thread I've said that you don't need to summon a fingerprint, bleed, antspur mimic to enjoy the game.
My own builds are woefully unoptimized and I have to make up for that with roll timing and learning the boss. The fact of the matter is that Elden Ring has increased the bosses aggression and likely meant for the player to overcome this by engaging in the rpg mechanics. These games have never been designed for challenge runs thats what makes them challenging. You don't need to pick between naked with a stick and completely shutting the boss down for the entire fight.
The point of increasing the damage you deal is to decrease the time you need to fight the boss risking defeat as the fight stretches on. Increasing your own hp, atk, and in ER mobility is key to fighting the boss in an enjoyable way.
If you choose to not engage with the hundreds of weapons, spells, talismans and consumables Fromsoft made for you; you're not using your brain, you're actively trying not to.
That's because it's now full of people who love to look down on other people and will jump at any opportunity to swing their smegma ridden "alpha gamer" cock around to feel better about themselves.
@@Slate674 then those people should learn to use their brain, it really is that simple but people like you refuse to even try.
The problem isn't "difficulty without purpose", it's "difficulty without balance and proper tuning". Also the problem isn't whether the bosses are beatable in general, it's whether they are properly balanced and are reasonably beatable for average souls players. I can't really take the combat in ER and SotE seriously, it's so poorly balanced and unpolished it's just tragic. Difficulty doesn't equal quality, Balance equals quality. A game without proper balance and tuning is just a mess of mechanics.
The problem when discussing difficulty is that the community uses the hardcore challenge runners as the metric to judge and escalate the average/baseline difficulty. The distinction must be made between average/moderate players and hardcore players when discussing difficulty. Hardcore challenge runners do not represent the average souls player and will get absurdly good at a game no matter how difficult it is or how many issues it has. Just because a hardcore challenge runner can no hit a boss with low equipment that doesn't necessarily mean it was designed well or is of a reasonable difficulty for average players to comfortably beat. Using challenge runners to judge a games quality for an average player doesn't work and is not realistic.
The base game should be a reasonable difficulty for average players to handle and enjoy. Extra difficulty should be provided with New Game Plus Modes and Boss Selection and Boss Gauntlets. I'm surprised people aren't really complaining about the lack of a Boss Selection option in ER an SotE. Hollow Knight did this the best imo with the Pantheons DLC, which was basically made for hardcore players that want more challenging bosses. Bloodborne did something similar by offering more challenging content with the FRC chalice dungeons. It would have been cool to set the difficulty of Dungeons in ER and SotE in a similar way (Like in some dungeons you have half health and there are more higher tier enemies and traps).
Fromsoftware must not strive for the impossible when designing difficulty. You'll just end up with a game that's unplayable and unbeatable. That's not the point of games. All they need to do is make well balanced, well tuned mechanics with interesting and complex combat and offer a reasonable challenge.
It feels like Fromsoftware is just reacting to and overcompensating for challenge runners. Fromsoftware must NOT use challenge runners as the baseline metric to set and escalate the average difficulty. They can stick to their philosophy but must keep the average player in mind. Difficulty must not come before or at the expense of balance and game mechanics.
This is just my opinion :P
Why is there such a logical and well constructed argument for this issue coming from this community? And it not being drowned by "git guds" or comments like "you want this game to be for filthy casuals!" Doubly impressed. And very true.
@@falcoon_f_zero9450
More than likely those turds haven't seen it yet.
I hope they don't.
They never create a good discussion and always evolve it into "git gut" or some variance of it that just ignores the context, criticism, and preferred playstyle of others.
It's equally frustrating to hear "people just wanna brag about beating it so they refuse criticism" as it is to hear "skill issue git gud"
I'm not a god gamer, I struggled a fat bunch but I enjoyed it. I just like the game, I think it's good.
If I say I enjoy Radahn's lightshow, I like how it forces you to not merely time your dodge but also orient them in a way that one dodge avoids two attacks , coupled with the incredible music with an unusual tone for a Souls fight and the story context it made for a really spectacular and satsfying fight that I happily struggled through, is my appreciation merely driven by hollow bragging rights or is it just that I had fun ? What if I like that enemies have longer combos mixed in with delays because it means I can't just roll around and wait for an obvious opening but have to make one for myself through hitting in their delays or parrying or jumping ? What if I think this adds a unique layer to Elden Ring that the other games do not have, that makes every fight more active and more exciting, less turn-based ? What if I appreciate that the difficulty pushes me into using far more tools and moves to even the playing field than the previous games ever did because nothing else mattered in those but roll+R1 ?
It's not like I disagree with everything, I wish From Soft would let go of much of Souls tropes, the camera sucks for Bayle and Lion, Metyr's lasers and Radahn's swipes aren't good. But what if I just think that those are blemishes rather than deep flaws and Elden Ring and its DLC have improved over previous games through much that you decry ? Can I not hold these opinions without having what I value be lumped in with idiots saying "uuuh skill issue git gud" ?
You’re literally a hit guuder lol
@@DIESTAR2010 Yes I do hit gud.
I've been saying this since Malenia, we are stuck playing Dark Souls whilst the bosses play Bloodborne or Sekiro. The base mechanics are outdated
@@d.a.u.d then youre not using the tools given to you. This game is piss easy if you use even half the tools available to you.
@@ALaz502 yeah... that's just an euphemism for cheesing the bosses.
And you see, my guy, the thing is not so much that the bosses are "difficult", the thing is they're just not fun to fight.
If I treat them like I'm playing DS, they're annoying and if I "uSe ThE TOolS", beating them is not rewarding at all.
So pls, cut the bs.
@@ALaz502 that's true but the game shouldn't force you to use them in order to have a pleasant experience. Because yeah a boss can be as cool as you want but after 50 or 100 tries you just want to progress with the damn game and changing the build you liked for a more powerful option and using mimic tear might be a turn off for some people. That's why Gael or Midir or even Midra from SOTE itself are great bosses to me: they are hard but they are not insane can be defeated with every build after not so many attempts
@@KlR0V I use deflect tear and defensive buff incants. Occasional dual weild with bloodhound. Is that acceptable or is that cheese?
@@ALaz502 you were talking about the game being "piss easy" so you tell me, my guy. Only you know how much cheapness are you putting into your experience.
But this is not about you in particular, so I don't know why you felt the need to excuse yourself. Seems like someone has been making his game "piss easy" lately...
I agree with everything you said here. Elden Ring is my first souls game, and I've realized that what actually ends up happening for me is that I stand as high a chance of defeating a late game and DLC boss the first time around as the 100th time. Since the boss is gonna be flying around the arena, blocking my camera and spamming attacks, I'm not learning the pattern of the attacks, I just level up until I'm able to power through and get lucky with the moveset. That's in stark contrast to minor bossfights or mobs that have fewer tricks up their sleeves, who absolutely destroy you the first time, but after a couple of tries, you learn how to deal with them reliably.
Great video! Sote is beautiful but easily the worst thing I’ve played by fromsoft. Beat the dlc solo and enjoyed only a handful of bosses. The old souls combat system has just been pushed too far to be fun imho. I kinda hope the next game has a couple of bosses that just literally can’t be beaten for all the git gud trolls lol
I want to ask a serious question...
You referenced Lies of P and how it's great and gives you more tools to deal with the enemies.
I agree that Lies of P is great, I love the game but what exactly does it give you that ER doesn't? Particularly since SotE adding the deflect I genuinely cannot think of a single combat option available in LoP that isn't also available in ER whether offensive or defensive.
I agree with you that the git gud community are ruining the game but in a different way. Somehow, it's viewed as illegitimate to use the tools in ER. Everyone wants to use a mid roll melee only build and then complain the game doesn't give you tools which is nonsense. There are more tools available to you than there ever has been.
On the part about unavoidable attacks though, I strongly agree. The game should be balanced around the tools in the players base kit. Metyr laser and PCR X slash combo are inexcusable and should be patched.
Why is it though that so many players are willing to engage with the tools and systems in LoP but ignore all of them in ER though, that is my main question. Thanks if you read this.
Edit: you can see it in this very comment section. Someone advises using tools and then people respond that they don't want to cheese the game... Well what do they want? I just don't understand this mentality.
I think Lies of P is honestly worst than Elden Ring especially when it comes to defensive options. LoP has no poise so trading isn't a thing. However it has a lifesteal system like Bloodborne, however that depends on you trading and healing the damage from the trade. The lifesteal system is supposed to be the only redeeming quality from blocking so blocking is shit too. The parrying is very tricky because of the unintuitive enemy animations. You also can't cancel attacks with parries like in Sekiro. Dodging is always very weak and seems to have low i-frames. Apparently the game has a skill tree which makes some of those things better, but I lost interest and refunded it before then.
@@youcantbeatk7006
Ok, thank you for the reply. I strongly disagree with everything you said but it also didn't really address the point I was raising about why it is that ER offers a million tools to the player and must players refuse to use them.
@@BBQcheese Summons take away the player's agency by dividing the player's attention with characters the player has no control of. Crafting and consumables require annoying grinding. The Scoodydoo tree blessings are annoying to collect. Players shouldn't be forced into using specific builds like great shields. Players shouldn't be forced to use summons or crafting when so many people dislike them that there's clearly some objective faults with the design.
@@youcantbeatk7006
You're not forced to use anything
@@BBQcheese "The game isn't fun? It's your fault for not using X and Y! Using X and Y aren't fun? Well just don't use them!"
I agree, I couldn’t even bring myself to finish it. Though I play mostly for PVP (Which has it’s on issues), I wanted to enjoy this DLC but I ended up getting bored. Not with the content but with the design; enemies and bosses all suffer from the same issues.
1. Over aggression: The attack chains are FAR too long, they always lunge at you or have a projectile in some fashion and terrible hit boxes (At times) along jumpy, flippy bullshit you make it through all of this, just to get a single hit in and go through it all again, It’s repetitive.
2. Fucking Hyper Armor: Ya’ll call it poise, I play fighting games so I’m use to the hyper armor term. If used sparingly poise can be fun, breaking down the enemy defenses can make you feel powerful but in this DLC it’s not poise it’s HYPER ARMOR meaning you can’t flinch the foe at all. This makes most weapons feel like shit and limits builds to either spam magic or use stagger builds or other cheese tactics.
3. Damage: Damage even with the fragments is TOO HIGH. You can’t learn movesets if you’re punished with death after 3 hits, then once you learn what’s killing you, you die from another thing that kills you in 3 to 4 hits! At 60 vigor with health gear on and max fragments you still feel decently squishy, I’ve never felt defensively sound in this DLC (This is sorta a base game issue too).
Every enemy/boss follow these issues which kills their uniqueness. All the different movesets and designs don’t matter if the majority of them have these same traits. It’s the same character in different skins at that point.
Sorry for the wall.
at 6 hours time of fighting dlc final boss, I just asked myself "Is this fun?" And I just accept that the bosses are more tedious than fun for me so I just uninstall the game lol I am worried if Fromsoftware will make their next game as unbalanced as this one or worse, even harder than ever just for the sake of being hard.
Nah, that wall was legit.
I strongly agree with the topic that starts at 5:50. If Havel was an Elden Ring enemy he'd bouncing off the walls like a crackhead and be able to kamehameha you at will all while being super tanky and hitting like a truck.
You forgot the people saying "Well Ongbal did a nohit on this boss, so the boss is totally fine and actually really easy"
Ongbal also said "I think Miyazaki can't beat this" in the video description, referring to dlc final boss lol
Ongbal is the outlier 160 IQ kid that gets a high score on a hard exam and ruins the curve.
Ongbal is the genius in your class who ruins the curve on a hard exam.
@@samuel.jpg.1080pIngbal was wrong, Miyazaki beats all his games lol.
@@aureateseigneur5317 lol he didn't. He actually didn't play ER until the dlc has been released and even then, he does not say he finished the whole game + dlc
It's just funny how every single boss/enemy will have a spin to win beyblade move, or a full area explosion at some point. Like, it doesn't take that much skill to avoid all of this once you've seen them the first time and you get all the tools to body these guys, but still feels completely uninspired and lazy. Besides say Malenia and Mohg that actually have distinct, characteristic attacks (like them or not), I will not even remember most of these bosses because they all have the same type of move: delay, spin, follow-up explosion, just with a different color or effect. Congratulations, From have achieved mediocrity.
Yeah Mohg's cool. Him and Godfrey are probably my favorite fights in the main game, and prove that From can make hard fights without resorting to cheap shit
@@MrSketchead Sometimes less is more, but it seems they got so insecure about it not being "hard" enough they went out of their way to create the most unintuitive bosses and enemies.
I think Bayle is the worst camera boss fromsoftware ever made
I do not believe you sincerely think Bayle has a worse camera than Dancing Lion or Golden Hippo
You're absolutely right. The first time I encountered Mohg's unavoidable blood curse and Malenia's waterfowl I got a sinking feeling in my stomach because I realized FromSoft were abandoning the "tough-but-fair" boss design philosophy that had provided so many enjoyable fights in their previous games. Seeing hoards of fanboys mindlessly defending these objectively bad design choices, I knew it would not bode well for future FromSoft titles. I still enjoy Elden Ring, but it saddens me to consider how much greater it could have been.
There is a crystal tier you can use to completely nullify the blood curse and various ways to stop blood buildup.
Malenia's signature move can be learned and avoided either by running and dodging, or timed blocking and dodging.
@@silverblade357 You're missing the point. Mohg's special tear is fine, but no Soulsborne boss has ever featured an unavoidable attack because that's not fair. Malenia's waterfoul can be dodged by exploiting her tracking, but the move itself gives players no observable cues on how to do this. You just have to die to an unfair move a bunch of times until you figure it out through trial and error. Even if you block the attack, she will heal herself by hitting your shield which makes absolutely no sense. It's all just artificial difficulty.
I completely agree with criticism of WFD. But Mohg? Nothing about Mohg is unfair or unfun. He's absolutely terrific, one of the best bosses in the whole game.
@@ETBrooD I think they're on about how "NIHIL!!" will carve half your health if you don't heal... or don't use his shackle or an item that negates the blood curse. I get why people think an unavoidable curse attack is bad... but you're a mere mortal fighting a demigod empowered by a Lovecraftian Old One!
@@silverblade357 Yeah, and the Nihil is also in character, Mohg is stealing our blood. I never use the shackle or the purifying tear and I have no problems with Mohg. Three flasks to heal through the Nihil certainly doesn't make the fight too difficult. By that point we should have more than ten. And we can get unlimited boluses to cure the bleed build-up, the merchant is only a few steps away.
Great video. The demons souls formula has run its course . Not just in the combat style and mechanics , but even with the level design. Shortcuts stop becoming interesting or useful if you always expect them to find them the same way , for example , you start exploring a new area , immediately see a door you can’t open and you already know this is a shortcut . Ds1 had some surprises with the shortcuts. Now it’s just expected. From soft need innovation now more than ever . Also, why does Elden ring have the mechanic of losing runes upon death , it’s not particularly suited to this style of game . It’s just copied over. We need new ideas and mechanics to induce new emotions and tensions within the gameplay experience ( expanding on ideas like insight and world tendency is the right direction to go ) Z
hit the nail on the head, i loved the dlc though, just didnt enjoy the boss fights. felt like i had to do an over powered build or abuse a bug that made something hit harder then it was supposed to that would eventually get patched out.
In order for From to evolve, they need to refine the combat system to actually be supremely responsive and realistic. And they need to actually explore different movesets. From keeps relying on unfair enemy gimmicks now.
I'm a really REALLY bad Souls player myself, but I think to an extent, there's not really unavoidable attacks, I think you just have to dodge them in really unintuitive and unconventional ways. Like you can dodge Radahn's double slash by hugging his right knee. It remembers me of when I first played DS3, I really really really struggled with Gundyr and put down the game for a year, then I cheated past him and eventually went back and beat him normally on my first try. To me it felt like dodging out of his attacks and staying away from him made more sense but I needed to dodge into his attacks and hug his left leg. It's unconventional and doesn't exactly feel right, but it's entirely doable. That's how so many of the bosses in these games feel. I just feel like sometimes you all forget what it's like. I think you guys are now all finding something like that again for the first time in awhile where the way you're supposed to win defies your natural instincts so you just tell yourself it's impossible.
Man you are on point here, I absolutely love elden ring and the dlc, but I definitely felt on some bosses the difficulty was just a little frustrating/ dated compared to what the bosses were bringing, especially Rahdan, I love hard bosses, but damn! Lol, I'll do another run. Skip the frustrating bosses and camera issues, but the rest of the game was almost perfect, in my opinion. It's still my favorite game of all time. And Rahdan S tier boss, design and lore wise. The fight tho c/ c+ tier.
Shadow of the Erdtree: Difficulty with Purpose - get all the scadutree fragments you can before even trying your first boss.
I honestly don't understand how it's too hard. If you get the scadutree fragments, you're fine. I'm an adult with a full time job and managed it two-handing Milady, having less than 51 poise, using no spirit summons. I can't imagine how easy you could make this game if you went with an OP colossal weapon and mimic tear.
The game is as easy and you want to make it.
Just by looking at your build on the first few seconds of the video, I could already figure out why you didnt't like the DLC and I completely agree with you. I thought quickly to myself "no way hes beating Radahn with a build like that".
And thats just the issue with this DLC, and maybe even with the base game in general that we couldn't see until now. Shadow of the Erdtree, or Elden Ring even for that matter, IS NOT an RPG or ARPG. Its a pure action game period.
This DLC forces you to play in a very specific way to be overcome, and it used to be fine in the base game with the spirit ashes system, but now some people can't beat Radahn EVEN with spirit ashes. And the difficulty spike leading up to Radhan is just INSANE, it bends the difficulty bar backwards. I honestly though I straight up missed a few areas of the DLC when I got to Radahn because of that spike, but I didn't thats really just the way it was designed and honestly I do really think From went to far here and that all the criticism was warranted.
Until you use deflecting tear, or shields, or impenetrable thorns, or blood fiends arm, or bleed. Then all of a sudden your opinion becomes factually incorrect, and you just end up looking dumb.
Edit: Also there are literally people killing radahn with only spirit ashes.
@@gefehede7783 The main problem with Radahn, is that canonically we shouldn't be able to ever beat him at all because thats the way he was conceived. The corrupted version of Radhan that we fight in the base game is just a shadow of an echo of a memory of what Radhan once was.
The problem is that in the DLC, they actually wrote that in. And its just incompatible with the game design. You can't just fight the most canonically powerful demigod in the entire pantheon of this world throwing glintstone pebbles. That's why he breaks builds. Whats written is incompatible with the game design. Fighting prime Radahn here in ER is just like fighting prime Gwyn in Dark Souls 1, its just not written to be possible.
It really doesn't force you to play in a certain way; you just need to understand the systems well enough. I did a pure Dragon Communion build and killed Radahn with no armor or poise-strengthening talismans. I was a pure glass cannon and took him down in a few seconds. All you need to do to create an effective build that reaches 3000 damage is read the tooltips..
@@DouglasZanini Canonically, the entire reason you exist is to kill demigods. The whole point of the Tarnished is that they were the most fearsome warriors in the land, capable of slaying demigods. You are literally someone who lives in death but doesn't rot due to the blessing of grace. The demigods in the game, even in their prime, are not fit to be Elden Lord. The entire point of the gold mask ending is to realize that the ultimate flaw in the Golden Order was the demigods themselves-not because they were cursed or too powerful, but because they were arrogant, selfish, and corrupt.
The Tarnished are the ones who killed the Fire Giants, who laid low the dragons, and who fought alongside Godfrey. Every one of the demigods was no match even for the original Elden Lord, who wasn't a demigod but a man who loved to fight and worshipped the Crucible.
@@Vhaal-666 Yes BUT you are forgetting one very important thing: the guidance of grace was extended to the tarnished. Which means, we arrive in the aftermath.
The shattering already happened. Legends rose and fell. And we are basically just there to pick up the pieces.
This is not bad in and of itself. But the problem is that when these demigods in their prime cease to exist only in legend and start to physically manifest to stand against you, which is what happened with Radahn here, then it breaks the difficulty pacing of the game.
The entire game system was designed not to kill demigods in their prime, but to kill demigods has beens. And thats just the issue with the DLC that made From introduce a new mechanic, which was the scadutree fragments, to help you become powerful enough to be able to stand against a demigod in their prime.
But it just doesn't work. Its not just a matter of mathematical power like, having the numbers enough to kill Radahn, it's a matter of mechanic. The prime Radahn fight is mechanically inconsistent with the rest of the game. I wont paraphrase everything that has been said about Radahn in this video, but suffice to say that the video was spot on.
If there isn't a developer-intended method of evasion with basic movements, it has gone too far. I don't want to have to use a shield, special equipment, or weapon art to dodge a swipe.
Skill issue
@@Z3d195👈🏼 Pathetic. You want boring, lazily designed moves.
@@Z3d195 NPC-ass response
@@MrSketchead cope harder bro, egos hurtin after this dlc it seems
@@matsimurf_5900 seems lazily designed to you, cuz you suck ass at this game and want quick validation. So you come online like the vocal minority of scrubs to complain abt “boss design”. It’s a boss design issue, it’s a skill issue.
You hit the nail on the head, it’s enjoyable but the majority of the rewards you get for beating bosses is just meh.
Now you all understand how those Harold Legion Knights in The Ringed City makes me feel.
Roll > poke combatplay is already dated, FS has to step up their combat design. Thats the main issue with ER combatplay and specially accentuated in SOTE due to new enemies being more aggressive. Besides that, they went too far with world emptyness. I understand they want players to enjoy the enviroments without being constantly disturbed by enemies, but there are lot of places in SOTE that feel like they forgot to put something there. Lastly, SOTE difficulty revolves around scads frags, and thats another wrong and unnecessary design decision. Still, great DLC and absolutely great new enviroments, enemies, and weapons.
Agree! Roll - poke needs to go, as there is no way to to expand anywhere else with these mechanics
I'm just sitting here 2 years after release waiting for people to realize that this game is just a poorly balanced rehash of DS3.
There was no careful and concious design behind the combat. Just looking at the spirit ashes system makes me cringe.
Imo, an extreme look into what happens when "git gud" is taken and ran with using everything wrong in DS2.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have the same feelings about DLC. It is frustrating to play with boring exploration and tedious bosses that I didn't enjoy beating. The challenge was unfair and Fromsoftware made difficulty only for difficulty sake which was never the point in their previous games. I have platinum trophy in every game they created since Demons Souls and I really tried to enjoy DLC but it was too exhausting.
I liked some things about the dlc. Progression system not tied to rune level, I like it. Most of the new weapons, I like them. The new talismans are great.
PCR 2nd phase is trash.
Sannesax is just awful.
Too many enemies are too fast with too much poise and do too much damage. I shouldn't get stunlocked with the heaviest armor AND GET 2 SHOT. Might as well wear no armor.
Womp womp do better and stop crying
It's more annoying when everyone else even the NPCs have more poise than the player character.
@@Z3d195 The developers are the ones who need to do better and not make the balancing trash.
@@Otakumanu keep coping, you’re just trash at the game
@@DeadpoolX9 called hyper armour bro, maybe don’t mindlessly mash r1 and npc poise isn’t a problem.
All bosses across every souls game has more poise than the player, mayve stop making excuses and learn to play the game
In my first playthrough of the dlc, I defeated Relanna in only 3 tries. I was 100% sure that this was due to my build and if in any way I was to replay this fight with a normal build (say Faith build) I would get demolished. My thoughts took flesh and bones when I made a second playthrough with a faith build and I got totally annihilated. Talking about 80 to 100 deaths or so. I totally hated everything about this boss.
Sketch I think playing with a shield and if u do wanna play a roll play style of which is my fave I really think light rolling helps dramatically til u learn the bosses movesets band how they attack
Don’t worry too much man because if they make a new game we’ll all be forced to start at level one. Meaning they don’t really have to make it any harder than it already is.
I agree with most of your points but I was still able to enjoy the DLC by optimizing my build and over power the bosses, without having to learn all the bosses 100%. And all the good points out ways a lot of the bad points with the bosses for me.
The biggest problem is 100% that the bosses are evolving in complexity and speed while our character is staying the same. From definitely realized this and instead of creating a new movement and combat system for ER, they just slapped a band-aid on it with spirit summon system, which totally goes in the other extreme and makes boss fights too easy and unrewarding.
They really aren't evolving in any way, at their core they the same as DeS bosses, down to the same AI patterns. The only thing changed is the amount of bs they throw at you - faster attacks, longer combos, immediate punishes, no windows for you to actually do anything, flashes and unreadable animations, delays and of course overtuned stats. It's the same primitive system trying to trick you it's more complex than it actually is.
Your character speed is more than enough to deal with the bosses.
The level design in the DLC is godtier. Probaly the best map ever created, exploration was fantastic. And it hasn’t lost people, Elden Ring is their biggest game by far in sales. But I do agree about some of the bosses.
It's funny, I also picked up Lies of P right after playing the DLC, and it did wash away the bad taste left by the DLC.
I liked Elden Ring very much, I still think that the game up to Morgott is incredible, even with its recycled bosses and early dungeons being too straightforward (which is fair, they're essentially tutorial dungeons, but they get old fast and most are still too simple). Not to mention there's a truckload of MORE recycled shit after Morgott, so yeah. The ending is a drag and in my first playthrough I only wished the game would just end already.
I think the problem is that they didn't want to risk incorporating design aspects from Sekiro. These games were more or less developed in tandem and by the point Sekiro had its reception, the foundation for Elden Ring was set already, even though I still think they had plenty of time for adjustments. In any case, playing Elden Ring is like getting bullied; you don't have tools to defend yourself, the enemies are disconnected from your gameplay, etc, all of which have been addressed by both Sekiro and, to a great extent, Lies of P.
What I was expecting from SotE was changing course towards Sekiro, but instead they double down on terrible decisions made in the base game. FASTER enemies. MORE delayed attacks. WEAKER exploration. The DLC is way bigger than it should be: there are vast empty spaces, item rewards are mid at best, and optimization is sometimes comparable to OG Dark Souls 1.
Although the world design is one of my favorite from FromSoftware and definitely something that will make me pick this up again, everything else mostly actually makes me dislike Elden Ring as a whole. I was playing it before the DLC, and I couldn't get myself back into that playthrough.
I'm not optimistic of FromSoftware's future anymore. They are going down a very ugly path and they're getting praised for it.
Input delay, input buffering, constant frame drops on anything but small dungeons, even with setups 3 times stronger than "recommended", terrible camera, buggy lock on (it literally doesn't work half of the time, it should be, and always has been, proximity based), enemies that have every mechanical advantage over the player, even going as far as completely breaking previously established functionality, everything and everyone has 180/360 tracking, rng delays, rng combo extenders, input reading, 90% of the dlc loot is crafting materials and blessings, 40% of the dlc map is not even optional, but literally empty, if you ever did some quest even once, we still have no coop nor invasion nor colosseum rewards, nor covenants, and many game breaking exploits since release... 10/10, perfect game, git gud.
White knights gotta chill. SoTE, and ER to some degree, has been the first time in the souls series we got an abundance of downgrades compared to previous titles in the series. Luckily, Miyazaki isn't satisfied with it either. Un-luckily, he is not the entire studio, and everyone sucks off ER so much, they realistically have no reason to improve. Let's hope for the best.
To clarify, I loved Elden Ring. World design is fantastic, it has some of the best dungeons in the series, I'd say overall the best dungeon global quality, some of the best bosses as well, they really pushed a very outdated engine to its limit in terms of what the player character can do while still being a (classic) souls game, weapon variety is the best we had, as well as weapon viability, both pve and pvp, art direction has been peak, almost every archetype revision has been improved if not perfected (cameos/references to previous enemies/bosses and such).
It has so much good in it. But so much of its core mechanics and balancing, and even coding, is so inexcusably mid. It's their biggest budget project, with their biggest team ever, and their longest production time, and most revenue. Why would it ever be unpolished? Polish was the number 1 thing they should have aimed for.
And it's not there, not to the lvls of BB, ds3, or sekiro, where everything and everyone felt perfectly crafted for the context they were in, from the design, to the execution, mechanics, balance, etc.
So much of it is just... "this, but, MORE". As you stated, it feels like a parody of its former works. A lot of the new content even feels like it was a mod/fanfic
For the record, Lies of P was equally as frustrating upon release. They have nerfed the hell out of the game.
Great point. Sketch would’ve rage quit the archbishop and I wonder if he’s playing it without the specter helper
@@WinstonWolfe21 archbishop was some absolute bs without throwables pre nerf
yes but its better now so? from has no intention in rethinking these bosses. lies of p as it is now,is 10 times better than shadow of the erdtree
@averagesoul8256 look I love lies of p but we all know the only reason your praising the game is because they nerfed the bosses to the point it's braindead easy lmao
@@NeloBladeOfRanni wdym they only nerfed a couple of them and they gave you the off the ground dodge as part of your basic kit. they just made the game better. i dont think they are braindead easy. they are easy when you learn them efficiently but that can be said of every boss. on my first playtru i suffered at everythink from laxasia onward and that was post the nerf
same brother , i think this is their worst dlc yet. played it 7 times and im done with it forever. they lost sight of fun ways to kill the player. now its always delayed attacks long combos and short damage windows. all bosses are this. no interesting gimmicks nothing. every boss feels the same, enemies too
i give it a 5/10. beautiful areas but they are empty and repetitive. some fun exploration , good weapons and a couple of good bosses. the rest is awful
id also say whilst yes shadow of the collosus is a masterpiece but that game is not a combat game , theres not a lot of exploration , you move around solve a boss puzzle whilst looking at good looking environments . thats the game . its also 5 hours not 40. elden ring is an exploration combat game, you expect to fight cool shit. sure some empty areas are fine for lore reasons but theres way too many of them
You dislike the dlc but played it 7 times? why would you do that? I like the game and haven't played it through 7 times. Makes sense you'd be over it lol 7 times, jesus its a long game.
@@jordanmeyler9239 because i wanted to like it so i just forces myself to try it again and again. and i just cant at all. so after the 7th time i gave up and uninstalled the gamr
@@averagesoul8256 so you played a 50-100 hour game you didn't like 7 times to try and like it?
If you don't like it just move on, I don't like tons of games. I just don't play them, alot of ppl scared of fomo with this one.
@@jordanmeyler9239 i liked the base game and the souls series is my favourite and its not 50 hours when you know what do,average subsequent playtru took around 3-4. since i was excited for the dlc i kept trying to see of its me but no in the end i think it just sucks
Sketch ! Good to hear your thoughts on all this 👍
I have kinda the same problems with the Game, but I dont agree on Messmer he does clearly makes some Pause after a combo. I would say he is the best Boss in this Game. Isnt it funny that people defend all that bullshit in Elden Ring, people are really stupid FROMSOFTWARE was always Hard but Fair but no more I guess lol.
I'd say Messmer is fine until his 2nd phase. Phase 2 is where most of the BS starts appearing (camera issues, hitboxes etc). I agree his 1st phase is fine
For innumerable reasons I think Elden Ring and every game in its style since Dark Souls 1 are boring slop, but with the combat specifically the problem is not that it's Sekiro enemies vs. Dark Souls protagonist -- it's that the players insist on continuing to play like it's Dark Souls and then wonder why it's not working.
Things like Guard Counter and Ash of War customization are new in this game, among other additions. I'm not talking about Spirit Ashes, just the new mechanics your own character specifically can perform. If you're not using them, that's like going from Megaman 1 to Megaman 2, 3, or 4 and refusing to use the slide, charge, or Rush. It'd be no surprise that you'd have a bad time!
Then again, this game is monotonous repetitive garbage so it's not even worth the effort to engage on that level to begin with
Also summons, they have summons in elden ring as a mechanic which is not in dark souls
Boring slop hhh wow, that's exactly how I feel when I played dark souls 1, elden ring is the best game ever made, you are not special for liking the old thing and hating the new thing.
The camera is the one thing I find really inexcusable. The way it drops the lock on, obscures the huge flailing bosses, refuses to lock on to stuff that is "too far" while still close enough to instantly attack you, and the other jank it constantly does. Needs a fucking fix.
My only problem (s) with ER is the lack of good loot from exploring. Big empty spaces especially in the finger region of the map. Reused bosses. I was hoping they'd learn from the base game's mistakes but apprantly not.
I get why those three areas are empty thematically... but they could've been smaller. Like, the two finger areas could've also been underground like the third, instead of taking up whole chunks of the map for little reason.
The Abysmal Woods is okay though. That place was proper terrifying.
The only issue I had was with the final boss, and not necessarily for the difficulty but for the flashing animations. I liked the DLC, but I feel the engine needs to step up now. Give us better combat camera and FOV.
I hear what your saying and I gotta humbly disagree the bosses in the dlc to me was amazing yeah Radahn has an unavoidable attack atm with that triple cross slash and I don’t remember metyr laser as she never really gave me any problems for me to remember that move but if it’s undodgable then I also agree that shouldn’t be the case however because of 2 bosses with 1 badly design move doesn’t mean I will say the dlc is trash???
I personally enjoyed my time in the dlc I didn’t rush it on my first playthrough I explored everything that I could find I enjoyed all of the remembrance bosses yes even gaius my favourite being Bayle or Messmer. The camera in my experience wasn’t bad and I never felt that I was getting 2-3 shotted by any bosses and I had like 55 vigor and non optimal armor as I’m most definitely a Fashion Ring player. Every boss in my experience felt fair and learnable with Radahn being the only 1 I went in with a game plan after he beat my ass for about 6 hours every other boss I got done within an hour with Bayle and Messmer being the only ones to take longer other than Radahn. Yes Phase 2 Radahn is hard but he is also learnable as I did manage to dodge his attacks multiple times and no I’m not a sweaty try hard player I go to work and I come home at like 4am where I would put like 1 - 2 hours a day into Elden Ring before going to sleep.
I enjoyed the DLC and it’s a shame you don’t feel the same way as me.
But maybe on another playthrough you might see it in a different light
That's cool man, I'm glad you enjoyed it. At least you explained why you like it, instead of just shouting "git gud" like half the people are doing here, so thanks 🙂
I’m surprised you like the new environments more than the base game. I thought it was far too dark, drab, and boring. Nothing inspired awe, like seeing the steps leading up to Leyndell, for example, or the gorgeous blue sky of Liurnia. At any rate, I agree 100% with your assessment on the combat. So often, it becomes an almost non-interactive event, where you have almost no options.
This. Besides the initial Gravesite Plains view, everything else seemed drap. No Leyndell, Elphael or Liurnia feeling. Its still a great game but something feels......off.
The bosses are the worst thing ever. From Software is no longer trying to entertain the player, they are now competing with the player.
This means the bosses have more utility than the player can cope with using reasonable means. Basically, they are trying to overwhelm the player on purpose.
A very accurate way to put it.
I completely agree on the poise / armor and speed. That has been a big problem with elden ring. The delayed attacks are ridiculous in ER. How you going to have Mogh who has a HUGE spear but literally his moves are super fast. I'd expect him to be slower, low poise. Dude is in cloth.
Like what happened with just rolling through everything like the dark souls series.
@@chasegaetze4507 How the fuck are Mohg's moves fast??? Literally his whole kit is roll catches lmao.
Good review, Sketch and you made some valid points. I personally liked the dlc but I agree its not without its problems.
Initially I think there was too much emphasis on creating bosses that could one or two shot you, or making instant attacks where you couldn't even bring your summon in before getting killed although they did patch the damage somewhat. I also didn't like how the final boss basically reduced the challenge to just a game of defense and poking the boss behind a greatshield as virtually the only viable strategy. This leaves the player with no real sense of reward at the end imho.
Even the game's basic enemies e.g. the Messmer soldiers could pulverise your hp with just a few hits, its just overkill and this has been a growing trend in Fromsoft games, which is worrying as basic enemies should not do this much damage. The Scadutree fragments help to an extent but I still think the damage is inconsistent at times, case in point is the guy at the start of the plain in his underwear with the claws, he can demolish you even if you have 13 scadutree blessings like I did at that point!
From really need to readdress enemy damage in future games and not have any enemy wipe you out regardless of your hp or armour or damage negation items, all of which are at times seemingly irrelevant in this dlc.
And again the map system is at fault because it simply does not account for verticality at all, a prime example of this are the locations of the Cerulean coast and Charo's hidden grave as the grace sites are right next to one another on the map, yet the map does not account for one is way higher up than the other and miles away!
So, for me Shadow of the Erdtree is a good dlc but not without its issues and there are times as you say its just difficult for difficulty's sake.
iv just purchased this dlc. sounds like im going to have a rough time. oh well wish me luck lol
The funny thing is the best boss in this dlc for me was messmer and i think for alot of people so hard and fair is the best recipe for great boss fight,
I don't think hard and frustrating was the point of these games😓
I dont think ER character is as slow as DS1. More like DS3, which was significantly faster.
Tyat being said, I agree with some of the criticism. I feel like SotE mobs dont really have an identity, other than their graphical design, because they all leap around, attack a million times with no downtime, are fast, have insane amounts of hyper armor, so on and so forth.
I've really enjoyed all of From DLCs so far, as they're usually the best part of the game. And I loved the design, ambient and lore of this one. But it definitely felt like it was way too hard just for the sake of catering to the pseudo hardcore crowd.
In my mind, Malenia's waterfoil was already the step too far, as it required you to abuse ai behavior or use one of the handful of counterplay if you couldnt dodge it perfectly.
You're definitely slightly slower in ER than DS3. They also made a lot of the lighter weapons slower except for curved swords.
Bro…this dlc is a lot easier than the main game. By a lot!!! The only challenge was beating Mesmer he was the only challenge and consort Radan. Everything else was easy
With how many scadutree blessing you wrote this analysis? The decision to make scadutree blessing is 3000iq, you separate the ppl who just want to rush the dlc and find the cool stuff from the ppl that take it slowly and explore. Exploration was always key in Elden Ring.
Fuck everyone who wants to play the game in certain ways the game game offers you to play. Fuck everyone who doesn't want to grind and run through empty fields for dozens and dozens of hours.
@@youcantbeatk7006you can collect shadow tree fragments in minutes, not hours r3t4rd
This game is starting to feel like how starfield does to bethesda fans
Interesting critique. It’s cool to see how different each person experiences this game. The game is great and the dlc is great. It just sounds like the way the game is made is just not for you and that’s okay. I agree that the camera can be really bad and that should be fixed. At this point there’s no excuse for a bad camera. The combos can get long but it seems like you’re not taking the time to learn the openings. For example, the laser attack from Metyr can be dodged by jumping over it. Messmer has like 2-3 seconds of standing still after his spear ash of war combo. Anyways great video and interesting critique. I definitely agree with some of the overturned bosses but I also can see that it’s just not your cup of tea which is fair.
The only way the game can be harder is if they increase their attack chains, and decrease their opening windows for attacks. I don't know what to tell you.
It sounds like you just want it to be easier. Which is fine, but just say you want the DLC to be easier.
Or hear me out, they can actually make a new much deeper combat system (like they already did twice) that wouldn't require to squeeze every last bit of complexity out of itself by using cheap tricks like delays and flashbangs after every attack?
Also did you know souls games were never actually hard nor was difficulty their main point? Crazy, isn't it?
@@kindlingking Nah, spoilt brat take. Be grateful for the best game of 2022.
@@MachoMaamRandallSandwich I should be grateful for the game I bought with my own money? From didn't gift it to me nor to anyone else. What kind of shill take is this?
I like the dlc but I do think From Soft need to up their enemy AI game. Enemies go from flailing around basically to slowly walking at u with their guards down
Yeah, especially if they keep the spirit summons too. People say the game is tuned around spirit ashes, but the enemy AI is absolutely idiotic when it tries to deal with multiple targets
Fromdrones will defend these flaws with their lives
Sure that's why he's deleting comment's
I agree with this more than I want to.
I love fighting bosses with self-imposed challenges however if it takes 1000 tries to get it done then it simply becomes exhausting and makes me resentful toward gaming.
I'm not using summons and I'm not going to make myself overpowered, it's not how I prefer to play.
Sorry u didn’t like it. I like it but u really wanna use an arcane build or a weapon with innate bleed on this dlc which I see you’re using the moon veil which is cool. Things u can do to help are damage negation tears, items and spells and collecting the scaudtree fragments and if u have the rune arcs using Morgott’s Great Rune and def try to be higher level with atleast 60 vigor
I'm almost level 180 on this character with 65 vigor. I do have a bleed build and I did try the DLC with that build too
I love Elden Ring but chose to watch some of my favourite steamers play the dlc instead as I hated the difficulty scaling thing they added and knew it would just be the developers indulging in their obsession with being difficult.
The lack of meaning difficulty is absolutely spot on, so many frustrated players who began to cheese the game rather than play their own way and many have moved on from the game already.
Imo they should have just let you create a new character for the dlc for challenge or have your power carry over from the vanilla game to destroy the dlc content.
I think my issue with the dlc is what you mentioned - that it feels that you are often forced to change your playstyle or build to adapt to the game's difficulty. Now, that sounds totally acceptable to ask of the player in a sense, but I feel like the dlc pressured the players to adapt or assimilate more extremely than before, to the point of sometimes not being fun. I've beaten the dlc and struggled mightily vs final boss, but I did it. I just didn't really enjoy a few bosses but loved others
You hit the nail on the head
Basically this just force players to cheese /exploit the game.Not enjoying the game by self hardwork
My brother in Christ, you didn’t git gud. It’s not a term meant to belittle and mock, it’s tough love from a big brother who has your best interest at heart. When you git gud, you enter into a dance with the boss; a rhythm and flow that is immensely rewarding when you’ve mastered the roll and your ability to read the boss, time your roll and position wisely for an open attack. You are face-tanking bosses, spamming weapon arts. It’s quite clear you’ve resisted the advice, presumably because it put a bad taste in your mouth because you felt talked-down-to. I got Messmer to phase two on my first attempt. That’s not a brag, but a testament to the results of gitting gud. I don’t use mimic or buffs. Light armor with a great katana- that’s it. When you git gud, the skill you’ve developed nullifies the difficulty. You’re just bad. Git gud.
Hey, nice 500 word essay, I ain't reading all that...
If you've beaten Mohg, you can beat the dlc. It might take a bit longer.
I havent beaten Mohg and still managed to beat the dlc
@@suuujuuus You gotta kill him to get to the dlc... What
@@suuujuuus 🤔 what?
@@suuujuuusdid your brother beat mohg for you or you out here making up bs just to troll & waste peoples time
@@suuujuuus Haters don't even play the game now?
Personally the bosses weren’t the hardest part. Trying to navigate the map was ridiculous
???
@@jaydunna2645SOTE is full of most players asking, "How the fuck do I get down/up/over there?!"
The answer turning out to be a random illusory wall or hidden behind an emote trigger is just kinda ass.
I think the game’s hitboxes are fine but some of,the other issues u have with the enemies is somewhat valid. I think the camera is fine too but it would be nice if there was a way to zoom out or raise the camera with some more camera options
Just make the camera zoom out against large bosses like in Sekiro and everyone will be happy
If so, what constitutes a hitbox being "fine", like what, no room for improvement? You would object if they were 1:1? I don't understand this...are you afraid From games will become worse if the weapon models have to actually hit you consistently to register? What is "fine" about dying to thin air?
There is obviously a huge opportunity for improvement there, they certainly are not fine.
The camera is atrocious. Yeah... you're not a sincere commenter. Just another apologist.
@@matsimurf_5900 From a technical standpoint the hitboxes are pretty damn good. No game is perfect btw. Post a clip of a bad hitbox from ur own gameplay and link it
Not defending this but the base game also had a completely unavoidable move unless you had the right item. Mohg's "Nihil" thingy.
Yeah, the Nihil thingy imo is right on the edge of BS. There is a quest item to neutralize it, the main issue is that finding that item is extremely hidden. If it was just inside Mohgwyn palace it would be fair
I get what youre saying but i prefer it to be difficult. If this dlc was easy everyone would cry about it. Its supposed to be harder than the main game.
I didnt see any undodgable attacks from radahn yet btw. Did you mean the attack where he pulls you in into guaranteed damage? Its reactable
I generally agree with you, and would recommend checking out Nioh/Nioh 2 based on your criticisms about the combat. That said though, I can’t help but feel based on your clips that you might have been underleveled for some of these fights. Maybe it’s because I went with a strength build but I was doing a fair bit more damage and stagger against the annoying AF yoda-from-episode-3 enemies and I actually thought the Golden Hippo wasn’t too bad. The final boss did take me a LONG time though. His three hit combat is actually dodgeable, but your point there still stands because you shouldn’t rely on players to be pulling off frame perfect dodges for an extremely common attack. Luckily I had a shield so I just blocked it, lol.
I tried Nioh 2 and refunded it after catching on video where I initiated an attack, and then an enemy activated his grab attack which gives him super armor and deals 90% of my health. I also got hit by another enemy at the same time. That other enemy I could've avoided, but it's unforgivable to have an enemy activate super armor and kill me after I'm locked into my input. How am I supposed to attack at all if the enemy can punish me from attacking in a neutral position?
@@youcantbeatk7006Sounds like you just got grabbed dude lol like idk what to tell you
@@ForceEdge47 The enemy shouldn't be able to initiate an attack and kill me after I initiated my attack and am locked into an animation when I initiated my attack when the enemy was standing still. Every time I attack, it's literally a dice roll of whether or not the enemy decides to reduce 90% of my maximum health.
@@youcantbeatk7006 I'm sorry man but the enemy shouldn't be able to initiate an attack after you've initiated yours? What kinds of games are you playing where enemies stop and wait for your attack to complete its animation before they retaliate? You activated an attack that wasn't strong enough to flinch them out of their grab, that's not uncommon in both this game and tons of other games. In fact, in my experience grabs are usually pretty high tier in terms of how much hyper armor they have and should just be side stepped. Maybe you should have waited until the enemy made their move and then made yours? Because that's what the enemy did to you, essentially, and it's not something that you couldn't have done instead. Not trying to sound like a dick but what you're describing sounds like you just timed it wrong, and refunding the game because you mistimed your attack and got grabbed makes it sound like you might have a better time playing a turn based RPG instead. If someone at IGN had docked points from the game because this happened to them they would be getting absolutely cooked in the comments section.
@@ForceEdge47 "That's not uncommon." Name a single encounter in any other game where an enemy deals most of your health with a hyper armored attack in a group fight. And how am I expected to "just wait" in a group fight where enemies shoot stunning projectiles that can potentially kill me off a single hit? Other games don't do this, and he's blatantly lying for implying they do. In other games, the enemy either has his attack canceled from being hit by my attack, or my attack hits and the enemy is so slow that I still have the opportunity to dodge.
While everyones milage on their enjoyment with a difficult experience may of course vary, I am very much confused by how often people accuse the DLC of being "just frustrating and not fun anymore" when being frustrating was always the main intent of so many of Froms design decisions ever since Demon Souls. It's the idea of putting you up against seemingly insurmountable odds to hopefully create a great sense of achievement when you overcome them.
And for me at least, looking back at my first playthroughs of DS3 and Bloodborne especially, I was oftentimes so incredibly frustrated with my experience of bosses like Midir or the Orphan of Kos, that any sense of fun or enjoyment was long gone by the time I finally beat them. In comparison Shadow of the Erdtree was way more enjoyable to me, because if I ever decided that I didn't want to deal with the aspect of challenge the game presented, I could just whip out one of the dozens of powerful weapon, spell and summon options to get over that hurdle and continue playing the game the way I want to, while leaving the "gettin gud" aspect for a subsequent playthrough.
9:43 DS3 had way worse perfect tracking enemies, I dont know why people say this about DS2 you can dodge by just walking around most attacks in DS2, the tracking isnt a problem at all
Git gud
Nah... I'm just joking. Agree with a lot of it. I beat most bosses in the DLC by working out what gear and item setups worked the best rather than learning the boss itself. Especially Radahn. I basically just stacked enough dps to nuke him down before the lightshow starts 😐
People totally missing the point - we’ve beat the game. We’ve beat the dlc. I’ve personally beaten it twice, and the base game 20. I have full scadutree and spirit ash. The POINT is that the game is NO FUN. It’s just frustrating to play. The intent of video games is supposed to be a fun challenge, and this doesn’t come anywhere near accomplishing “fun”. I’m hoping they go with a whole new skeletal structure for the movement and combat system for future games because this feels mechanically old as hell.
then why did you beat it twice? if it's not fun. Once to say u did it sure but twice?
to get my money’s worth, and finish quest lines I missed. To give it a second chance because after all the time I put into base game, I didn’t want to write it off immediately.
@@Haydentrudyjones that's wild, I don't even finish games I don't like. I agree ppl shouldn't play games they don't enjoy. Maybe this game isn't for you, if you want them to rehaul the core gameplay. There's alot of fans that like the series and core gameplay if you'd like a different game why not play something else?
because I was a fan of their previous games, like bloodborne and demons souls. But have singed realized, not only have they failed to truly evolve their games in any meaningful way, but other studios like neowiz and shift up have shown they can do the souls formula better and still bring the next gen experience. There is something genuinely alluring about the souls games and their formula, but it has reached its limits with its current structure. It needs updating. But I feel Miyazaki and fromsoft are being held in a chokehold by gif gud fans who want a dark souls re-iteration every few years and they’ve just lost creative ways to make the games challenging. This is an honest opinion of someone who has enjoyed the games and wants to enjoy future ones more than I did this absolutely punishing DLC.
@@Haydentrudyjones fans do want a dark souls iteration, that's the thing. Fans of the genre want more of the genre and from is the only company that does it well. I don't know the companies u mentioned by name but I'm assuming one is lies of p which is not even close to from level bosses and enemy design. I think most of the og fans are happy with more souls with added complexity.
Fortunately based on recent interviews from is going to diversify their offerings, so hopefully you can get some new stuff you like and fans of the souls formula can still enjoy those games.
For myself and ppl I know playing since ds1 Elden ring is the magnum opus of contemporary gaming
played Fear and Hunger?
Great game, great experience
@@unpingouinsurlabanquise4574 My point here is that difficulty can be extreme. Like F & H. Or it can be variable. Like Elden Ring, Do you think it's going to the point of absurdity where these two converge?
@@d33dr0 nope, it's fine just not for everyone
do you play wukong?
Highly disagree. The purpose of the difficulty is to give the player a sense of accomplishment and progression. As in every souls game.
I like it but I agree. Dont love it, I almost think Elden Ring is general is just simply too big. I know a weird critique but its kinda how I always felt about the game
I know what you mean - the base game is too big, it's not a good game to just pick up and play
You have to pick one, the boss doesn't have an opening, and the boss have delayed attacks, bro this is your window attack the guy.
No it’s not, very few bosses have delayed attacks long enough that you can get an attack off before they get theirs. Even when that’s a possibility it puts you at a significant disadvantage since they could just input read you and let it loose right then and there.
@galientl4723 of course, it's a opening, some windows can be too short for a colossal weapon, I can give you that, but still with colossal weapons, in mesmer for example, I could give one poke (the r1 right after a roll) in each one of his attacks in a certain combo, and that's is with a colossal weapon, if you use faster weapons you can absolutely atack between delayed attacks like it's nothing, this game rewards aggressiveness, you can go for posture breaks, or just build up some stats effects like bleed or frozen, so you can attack the boss at every turn with those strats.
@@ruanvictorcabraldelima4752 it’s not possible to reliably attack Rahdan in between combos. Again certain bosses allow this but most of the more difficult ones don’t. Mesmer if anything is on the easier side as far as DLC bosses.
@galientl4723 yeah, I can agree with radhan too, but he is the oddball of the bunch, rellana, mesmmer, the lion (I forgot his name), midra, golden hippo, bayle, all have fair and punishable windows to attack, either between combos, or in the mid of one.
@@ruanvictorcabraldelima4752 all have attack windows in between combos but several like Lion, Putrid Knight, and Rellana don’t have consistent windows in the midst of their combos. Especially Rellana since she can mix up her combo mid string and Segway into an entirely new one before hopping away.
Everything other than the final boss has been incredibly manageable, and much of it HAS been relatively easy. If it's been hard for you, all I can recommend is try using more of the tools the game gives you. Use defensive talismans, experiment with weapon arts, try out using summons. You don't have to pick the mimic year, use one that's a bit weaker so the boss still feels challenging. Idk, at the end of the day it's OK for players like you to enjoy the old games more, but that doesn't mean the newer games are intrinsically bad.
i very much disagree which this take, 2 years ago i was frustrated with the base game , delayed attack, extended move from combo enders, annoying ass enemy like Miriam, royale revenant, Malenia, Maliketh, Godskin Duo being annoying shit in my first time. But giving a second playthrough and being more patient and knowledgable. I enjoyed it a whole ton lot, delayed attack is no longer an issue as most of the time you can strafe it and rewards you with a lot of punish window, extended combo become a fun reaction test as now i know when they are coming and makes the fight more dynamic. annoying enemies usually have counters to them like royale revenant can be stun with healing incantation or weak to holy in general, or Godskin Duo being susceptible to sleep. its a fun time, but it takes time to get a grip on it.
Shadow of the Erdtree is basically the same for me, frustrated at first and complain about high damage, crazy ahh combo. But again, learning how to deal with them feels incredibly rewarding, high damage usually just negated by the Scadutree Fragment, and people need to stop forcing themselves to keep actively search for them, theres a lot that comes by naturally, and each legacy dungeon has at least one too, each path leading to a remembarance boss also have couple that scattered around, and you don't need to go full +20 and burn yourself out, my second playthrough of the DLC i ended it with 14+ fragment and i have more fun that way, and Fromsoft buff it so that only the first 10 level matter the most, and the rest of the level is just bonus if you are still struggling. Dancing Lion use to be a huge pain in my ass cause the camera so i usually sprint into the middle of the arena to avoid being at the corner of the arena, thus avoiding the camera issue i had, Messmer has a insane delay spear thrust that is design to fuck you over with your natural instinctive dodges but after learning that, force myself to delay the timing, or even, get a hit in before dodging while he's doing the delay do wonders. Or Bayle with his relentless combo that piss me off always makes me go "Are you done??" to figuring out all of his move have punish window utilizing it is incredibly gratifying.
I won't say SOTE has perfect difficulty, but i can't lie. I enjoy it a ton, i guess the difficulty curve is really too steep, either you hate it and get frustrated or being incredibly enjoyable and can see the complex design behind the enemy or area, MIriam is still a big bitch too.
Its not really difficult lol. Just explore and find a bunch of Scooby Doo Tree fragments if you are stuck on a boss.
That's what I'm saying. I thought I was the only one. The only boss that was hard for me was radhan.. I don't really understand how different this was from the base game honestly.
@@omarionalbert1705 Same here - I had a blast with the DLC, and Radahn was a fun way to spend 3 days of practicing. Thumbs-up to From for not making things easier, but force you to re-think your build, your approach, and your stubborn way of playing without any of the tons of tricks, they threw in there.
Some "git gud-er" literally tried to flame me for playing the DLC on NG+, saying it was my fault that the game was hard, because I committed to a single character 😂
They're helpless idiots, every single one.
Good Video you are saying the truth people need to wake up 😢
I'm currently doing the dlc rl1 no blessings, the bosses are super fun and fair for the most part, just need to learn, they sure are hard but it's a souls game wadyu expect
@@IsshinTheSwordSaintTTV you casuals need to wake up and stop being so delusional thinking the entire world revolves around you. These games are meant to be difficult they aren't meant for casuals with the IQ of a gold fish like you
@NeloBladeofRanni Man, there are some retards in this thread, but you just might take the cake...
I beat the final boss on my 2nd attempt using a basic spear and a shield.
It's not unfair or too hard. It's just an RPG that expecte you to use the various tools at your disposal.
I think player flexibility is the answer.
Please see 17:00-17:25 above
@@MrSketcheadlol in fairness that is funny
Meaningful difficulty ends where skill and determinetion does, so it definetely varies from person to person. Personally I liked the dlc bosses more than a base game for not being a cake walk.
The game gives you more powerful tools to fight these powerful bosses with. If you are choosing to not use NPC summons Ashes of War, jumping, sheilds, heavy armor, and a variety of weapons then you are intentionally making the game harder for yourself and complaining the difficulty is too hard. It's like playing a JRPG and getting mad that some enemies are strong to lightning attacks so your party built around lighting is bad against them instead of adapting your build to include other options.
Great video man!!
This is why I modded my ER to have sekiro blocking & dashes and bloodborne health rally system. Now it’s actually fun and far more fair