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Elden Ring PVP: Is Ganking Justified?
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- Опубликовано: 27 мар 2024
- I have both ganked and been ganked but Elden Ring changed everything.
Big thanks to the boys for coming out for the ending
I owe everyone else involved in this video an apology. Especially those guys on the High Wall. Sorry Jonni!
I will eat a shoe if elden ring brings back invasion covenants
I will pay them $100
I hope they do the spirit of dark souls is invasions
Film and post it
I will eat my boyfriend live on camera if they bring back covenants.
Agreed
You don't know how much fun I had goofing around at Pontiff with the 6 players limit. You could invade a fight club and have some duels, or you could try to ruin it and have people team up on you or join you to create a big fight. Or you could just invade a gank and try to defeat it in a big fight. I'd use the obscuring ring and interrupt fight clubs with a greatbow, then run and hide. Eventually, they would get mad and all would go hunt me down. I even a clip of that on my channel.
Elden Ring is just endlessly frustrating. Most days it feels like I'm just chasing the high of DS3 mutliplayer. Recently I invaded a host who would stand at first step, waiting for a red and pit him in a series of 1v1s against blues and yellows. It was a glimpse into what ER could have been, instead of the constant ganks and clueless PvErs you get now.
Elden Ring at least forced me to become a massive sweatlord. Game becomes more fun when you unlock all the options available to you by having the skill to execute them. Invasions can be a really fun test of your abilities and quick thinking.
I doubt the DLC will bring back the 6 player limit, but I sure hope that at some point in the future, perhaps with a Scholar type deal, we can get the Elden Ring we all really wanted.
Ds3 is still around... i just came back after a 3 year hiatus and its been better than ever!
"Elden Ring is just endlessly frustrating. Most days it feels like I'm just chasing the high of DS3 mutliplayer."
bingo, it's why I just stick to DS3 more often
@@mollywhoppedsouls_pvp While i infinitely prefer ds3 pvp to ER pvp, there is also a conversation to be had about stuff like estus cancelling, the machinegun bow glitch and the murky. I feel like you see a lot of that these days...
The good old times. It was always fun to join fight clubs, watching other players play and cheering with funny emotes. I really loved the fact that invaders, hosts, Sunbros and mad phantoms would all join together for jolly pvp and gank on anyone who would break any fight club rules like no flasks or interrupting a match lmao
1st time I invaded a fight club and broke a rule, it was mad funny watching everyone jump me and kill me. Learned etiquette and honorable yet fun duels, something Elden ring lacks. Even if you were a sweat or the enemy was, we were all having fun
Peak DS3 on PS4 for me. The very best moments were when everyone followed me into silver knight range and began to hit each other accidentally on the narrow spaces. But because the host is no longer summoning, organic reds and aldrichs start coming in, and from their perspective it looks like everyone is ganking a single poor invader, so they empathize and start fighting what they think are traitor reds. At some point, the duelists legitimately became annoyed with one another too and picked their own personal fights, and everything turned chaotic. It was spectacular.
Those moments dude... I just assume there will never be anything like that again.
PS: Eventually tried it on PC. Got a host annoyed and met a cursed knife for the first time. Sometime after that got my char sent into a broken NG+. Not quite the same experience lol
You bleeping yourself out when saying "k***ht babyboy" gave me a good laugh
Elden ring pvp can never recreate the gank city
Leyndell could have been gank city.
The place in Farum Azula with the birds and lightning could have been gank city.
Nokstella or Nokron could have been gank city.
But instead we just get boilprawn shack duelists, Radahn beach shitters and the three shitgrave skullfuckers.
Back then when ganking wasn’t as cancer for you had buddies
I can’t believe you guys actually convinced yourselves Gank City was good. My god have PvP community fallen.
Good.
@@nunchuksteev9811 whats wrong with gank city? It’s the best place for any invader
The most annoying thing is that there are so many weapons in the Elden Ring, but no one is experimenting with them. I see almost identical setups with every invasion. If I was attacked by a squad of cosplayers, it would make my day. 😁
When I bought the game, I was expecting Game of Thrones style combat. Fast, brutal, with betrayal at every turn. But the only traitor is the game publisher.😢
I think so much of it boils down to people get overwhelmed by the sheer scope of the game so they just look up whatever is "best". I did all my experimenting with weapons when ganking or invading, but since I don't spend as much time with the game I know a lot less about most of the weapons. If only FromSoft better facilitated experimentation instead of driving cross-country up a mountain.
@@emotionaljonxvx I completely agree with you. Perhaps if the game was more generous with forging stones or did not require farming rare resources, then people would be more willing to test different builds.
Its because:
1) most of the weapon classes are underpowered or outright useless in PvP due to bad moveset;
2) weapons tend to share the same moveset all across one class, including the shitty ones. Why would I use any other curved sword when I have Shamshir? Why would I use any other katana when I have Nagakiba? Why would I EVER use maces/axes, lmao
Crescent moon axe has a unique R2 and feels amazing with earthshaker. That’s why. 😅
@@nachalnik5738 I also thought until I used the poisoned shotel. It makes people poisoned so quickly and goes through shields. The feints and shape of the blade make it unique and make it play differently.
I remembered another example. Miquellan Knight's Sword. It's so rarely used that people are never prepared for a charged R2 attack.
But overall I agree that the meta is crowding out other weapons. The temptation to be 100% efficient is too strong.
Bruh Elden Ring multiplayer overall is just a big missed opportunity, not only they didn't improve a single thing, they went backwards a mile. I have almost 1000 hours on DS3 cause of the multiplayer, literally engaged with everything, coop, pvp, fightclubs, invasions and all them shenanigans, tried that in ER and quickly just dropped it. It's so ass.
EDIT: Also the content from multiplayer in DS3 was just pure gold. So many iconic videos and memes. Same with DS1. That ain't happening much with ER.
And bro that clip at the end is literally why I love DS3 so much. Running into stuff like this back in the day was such a blast and a huge laugh.
Definitely feel you on that. I'd love for the DLC to shake up / reinvigorate the scene but without an expanded player count or a forced invasion zone, I don't see anything sticking. It really feels like a hopeless situation and a complete whiff.
@@emotionaljonxvx Yea honestly I just accepted it, it's a hopeless situation indeed. From Software never were the developers to do huge changes and reworks during the game's lifecycle.
lol seems like everyone is stuck on the nostalgia of ds3 pvp around here. i never played dark souls 3 pvp, but have 1000 hours in elden ring pvp and have a blast on so many builds. maybe you should stop living in the past and accept what is now.
Casters are in the same boat.
Aside from some shiny new spells, we got zero gameplay improvements outside of the limited Chain Casts and the "new" Charged Casts.
DS2 brought forward a lot good and positive changes for Caster gameplay, but were almost entirely revoked in DS3. Elden Ring's Caster gameplay would be as bad as DS3's if they had kept base spell damage around DS3's level.
FromSoft has constantly refused to improve Catalyst gameplay and thinks that doubling-down on damage stax effects is quality gameplay for Casters. (Another issue copied from DS3)
Elden Ring might as well put Seals/Staves on the toolbar instead of as a "weapon" like they did in Bloodborne, and there would be very little mechanical difference. That's how bad Catalyst gameplay currently is.
@Battleguild, honestly, after playing Reforged, it's so hard to return to vanilla and play as a caster when you don't have things like regenerator spells that do little damage but regenerate massive amounts of fp on hit so that you can keep the momentum of a boss fight going without having to worry about flasks
Former Gank Hunter here (I used to deliberately invade and kill coordinated ganks in Ds3 at multiple levels) I have trouble accepting the "justice against bad red man" or "it's fun" mindset as gank squads regularly blocked me after I killed them a couple times. Maybe this was the case very early in the souls series, where ganking was a gateway into PvP but not after the first few months of the game's lifespan.
I would suggest that people gank for a much simpler reason: They like winning. As soon as they stop winning it's suddenly not fun anymore.
Why should they play fair when their world is being invaded? For them, you are actively initiating ruining their fun, so it's justice to kill the invader as quickly as possible to then get back to the fun they were having exploring.
You are the ganker. Ganking means to rob or defraud someone.. Thats you!
@@QuestVenture Only robbing them from an easy Soulsborne experience. Personally I think everyone needs to suffer the masochistic vision that comes with navigating a Souls level as per Miyazaki's intent. The moment you Co-op, it becomes easy mode. Enter the Bad Red Man to pump that difficulty back up.
Now that sad. Me and my friends only gank invaders that dont wave and bow. We love holding fight clubs and do it honorably. And we have had invaders who have managed to kill us all, one by one. No shame in admitting when someone is better. We only block cheaters, and invaders that keep coming back, not bieng honorable.
Dark souls 1 literally teaches you to gank so it's actually canonical. Unless cheating is involved ganking or invading are just part of the game. If it's to bully invaders or to protect those that might not be good at pvp it doesnt matter.
New Elden idea; The Ganker's hand; a six fingered hand with the ability to create and summon two hosts/ two teams to participate in open area siege. Host on either end is considered king and only one life, but each pawn has three lives with a short respawn time. There- fixed the game.
Ganking would be acceptable to me in ER if we could just have an area where it was possible to have 2v3s. I literally go back to Ds3 and invade the Ringed City at 125 just so I can have a super chaotic 2v3 murderfest.
I would enjoy more emphasis on different areas. I'd also like to be invaded naturally rather than only taunting, when I'm playing pve
i get it that miyazaki wantsto protects the host experience. but goddamn the fuckers who exploit to just stick in one place and gank incoming invaders and won't even move towards the pve areas
I wish they'd let you, as an invader, manipulate enemies. If I could lure a monstrous crow to gankers, I'd pivot my entire life to being a monster rancher.
@@emotionaljonxvxshadow bait might work as an invader? Don’t quote me. It’s an incantation by the way
not sure having overleveled phantoms destroy everything in their path with 1 or 2 hits, be it pve or other players, doesn't seem like a good experience as a host. Ganking is not a problem inherently, the way multiplayer works in ER just makes it an absolute shit experience for both parties because host and phantoms have no need to be even decently good at the game while invaders need to be top 1% players to even have a chance to pose a threat against brain dead gankers.
@@miguelnascimento2847 a top 1 might be able to survive, but they will run out of every items and was force to return home or die.
@@emotionaljonxvxYes! This is what Mohg's rune should do instead of buffing them. Instantly make the enemy aggro the Host regardless of distance, or at least follow the Invader.
Many such cases. My first exposure to invasions in Elden Ring was getting put on unstoppable timers by rot pot and antspur invaders in Castle Morne, which infest the low-level brackets like cockroaches. It made me think invasions generally were a purely sadistic mechanic. And while I was never an actual ganker, over time, the "always active golden effigy co-op player who endures invasions" -> "co-op player who has grown tired of the base game and now looks forward to invasions" -> "taunter's tongue solo host who is now facilitating invasions herself for a 'challenge playthrough'" -> "just invading herself because PvP has become the main draw of the game" pipeline worked its course on me, as I'm sure it has for others.
I had a similar path. I went from finally getting the hang of solo pve to helping others, to wanting to 1v1 the invader but seeing them just get ganked by the host and other co-op, to feeling bad for being a crutch for hosts who don’t level vigor, to becoming an invader. Now I make the host’s victory mean something or I teach them to level more vigor.
Are you me? This is exactly my path except the final step is "realize the game sucks and move on to something else"
What a great video. I know in inhaling copium, but I wish SO MUCH that in the DLC we get 6 player limit. One can dream. Also, you just earned a sub!
We can hope and we can dream. Thanks for the sub!
I hope some of you check out Waifu's work. He makes accurate and nuanced videos on Elden Ring that are also hilarious
I Troll Invader Over and over again, Go too Colosseum
Gankers = invader rejects
Grace duelists = arena rejects
Change my mind
No, you're 100% right
What if you want to grace pvp (1v1) but in all the vase landscapes of ER. Why stick to arena’s stale atmosphere and repetitive scenery ? I personally enjoy having TT on while it’s just me in the world. I enjoy the possibilities of a 1v1 or 1v2 with that being decently winnable. Say I have 1 friend that joins with TT on now it’s a possible 2v2, I say it’s fair but I have to agree it’s very stale as the player limit doesn’t allow for deeper and more fun gameplay. Arena it’s just stale, the landscape and mobs is what turns invasions in invaders favor. Taking that away and clearing the map is pathetic I agree.
@@Itachisramenarena could use work but invading gets stale , unless your a natural troll , ur not looking for competition if your invading because then your dead , odds maybe more than likely not be in your favor why not pvp 1v1 , lol trolls shamelessly
@@Itachisramen nono hold on, you are right, arena sucks ass, i'd honestly rather be a grace duelist if the invasion priority didn't suck ass(when the dlc launched if you ran solo tongue you would get less invasions than if you summoned someone because the invaders would be invading only people who summoned due to how the priority system works)
Sometimes grace duelists are just people who appreciate the old school pvp. I don't always feel like fighting in the same boring arena every time I fight someone. Also yeah gankers, for all their justifications as to why they do what they do, are just players that wanna bully other people but aren't good enough to be invaders and so need a numbers advantage. The only thing more pathetic than gankers are blues, who are just gankers who don't have any friends.
Before Elden Ring, whenever I entered a world, I thought three things: 1. Where am I? (What level, and what part of the level) 2. Where is the host's party? (must find out through dead/active pve, changes in terrain, etc) and 3. How is my backup? (is the pve dead or wandering or their one trick used up, do I have a co-invader, is there a blue in the world, have the traps been sprung).
Answering these three questions made me feel like a hunter tracking my prey. In DS3, I could use the Millwood bow, Silvercat ring, and Obscuring ring, which made me feel like I was absolutely hunting prey. I had to be cunning and use everything to my advantage to defeat a stronger foe, and that made it exciting. Even running away in order to get backup (either for a fresh co-invader or more enemies) was exciting.
Elden Ring's nature as an open world game gave it the most potential to give the best "hunting" invasion experience, especially if they had added more or more visible ways to track players. Instead, we got... what we got. A lesser ecosystem than anything before. An experience where you run towards the marker on your compass and then you either get blended or one-shot the host, and it's boring for both parties. Truly the Game of the Year.
I keep telling them, There is No Greater Thrill than to Hunt Other Players.
Ngl I'm having a better time playing old souls games and struggling with activity but still having more fun than elden ring pvp.
I got on Dark Souls 3 to get footage for this and ended up just invading for like an hour. I really wish Elden Ring would step it up with PVP. I'd put in more time if I felt I had more to do.
@emotionaljonxvx you mention arena for a split second in this video and I realized arena gets 6 player multi-player with spirit summons... wtf man let dungeons have 6 players. Who cares if it's not available in the overworld. Overworld invasions suck anyway.
Still playing Bloodborne invading in the Nightmare of Mensis on lore heavy gimmick builds, here.
@@GeorgeBigglesworth 3v3s at rhadans catacomb are glorious
@TheCryptidman what level and all of that stuff for your matchmaking?
That invasion at the end is great! DS3 had some amazing meme potential.
Everyone had more fun in a troll-ish but good natured way in Souls pvp. ER is full of people who are very uninterested in the older sense of humour I think. They don't gesture, they don't honour-duel, they don't take kindly to wacky invader behaviour. For the most part. It's why I still go back to DS3 more often.
@@ianwilliams2632 Without DS3 PvP and it's humour we never would have got this absolute masterpiece ruclips.net/video/YpjBZezKikA/видео.html
bring back humour to the PvP community!
@@ianwilliams2632 Elden ring has a much bigger audience then all the previous games so not all of them will have the quirky etiquette the older games had.
@@WokeandProud Quite
There is still potential, I have tried to carry the torch of stupid but fun set-ups but it's hard to do it as a host since nobody else in my friends group is interested.
That said quickly invasions may inspire quickly hosts so I still forge ahead.
You are free to gank but I’m still gonna see you as a noodle
Ya agreed, but this definitely affected my opinions on ganking. I appreciate it more than I did.
I usually try to take an invader 1v1.. otherwise tripping off a cliff if that can't be arranged lol
Right after pontiff in boreal valley was the best souls ever got online wise and it will probably not change
Hell nah. Darkroot Garden forest was peak.
i personally loved the Belfry Tower shenanigans in DS2
Yes, but it's case by case. I think it's justifiable to gank a mega-twink. Some invader at level 15 using rot pots, and giant's flame take thee. Of course I have heard arguments that invaders need overpowered stuff at low levels to deal with overleveled phantoms. There are two problems with this. One is if they have end game overpowered stuff they could have leveled out of low level, and experienced less overleveled phantoms. Two, as a person who has ganked, every twink invader I see no matter what, uses the end game stuff regardless if there is an overleveled phantom, or not.
On the other hand it is just a game, and people who invade tend to say invading is justified because it's a inbuilt game mechanic. In that sense I think groups of coop can gank, but I personally think that a gank should be at that very least polite to an invader who isn't a mega-twink. All we have is our humanity deciding this stuff, and we could choose to switch to a fight club when the moment is appropriate. An invader can be a fresh pvper too. Not all invaders are old hardened players that went to the end game to build the finest twink ever.
I think in Elden Ring PvP Gank squad ganking is mostly just a griefing tool. It's not about pvp - it's about trolling with a side of petty revenge. About causing rage and negativity. It's also not about it being fun. Quite contrary, the idea seems to be to make sure the invaders gets to have no fun, which in turn is how the gank squad has fun. By hoping to any outer god that will listen to their plea, they just ruined someone's day and made them feel bad/to cause them to quit playing the game.
Oh, and as for 2v2 - I have never got to do this. Anytime I end up in a situation where it could occur, the second red backstabs me on purpose. Mostly to without fail after that to end up getting clobbered by the host and their pal. It's so stupid and annoying it's made me physically exclaim out loud: "Why would you do that?" When I am making it a point to demonstrate to the other red, I am peaceful and want to work together. But nope. Always a purposeful backstab, and always the other red gets killed after by the host and their buddy. I was under the impression, too, that there was supposed to be some sort of honor code between invaders, but I've never seen a single red follow it. Makes me wonder why do I even bother at this point? It's just frustrating to see what could be fun get crashed. Which seems to be the whole problem of Elden Ring PvP.
I also really dislike how after gaining enough levels, you can hardly do much with multiplayer. Elden Ring is odd in that way where it almost feels like the game is punishing you for bothering to play it long enough, as then you begin to get no multiplayer experiences due to how its match making system is beyond borked. I'd rather just get scaled down instead of sitting around for mostly nothingburgers.
I agree that the odds set it up to be entirely griefing in Elden Ring. It's why all I could really say is just that I miss what ganking could be and that as someone who has spent a lot of time on either side of the spectrum, Elden Ring ganking has zero appeal to me. 2v2 is unreliable and not nearly as much fun, and 3v1 has always been the worst case scenario, made all the worse by the volume of AoE and longrange death beams.
I definitely think griefing can come in as an invader too, but ganking with the powerscaling and openness of Elden Ring really makes it feel like From wanted to make sure people stop playing the game once they beat it.
I think they left out the scaling down of high level invaders to purposefully limit the range of tools they can use...
@@alessandrobaggi6129 Fair enough, early on. But when we are talking level ranges where people already got all the tools and are freely mixing and melding them to their liking, it becomes a very annoying thing. Way I see it, if you got a lot of people who want to engage in a game mode and are stopped from doing so by the game, then stands to reason there is a problem. I'm far from the first "high level" player to bring this up.
@@glatykoffi6672 ds3 automatically embers the player after a boss kill, so you are subjected to one invasion unless you go out of your way to suicide it off. They didn't try to kill pvp in ds3, it was after ds3 they killed it.
And I think the reason they killed pvp in elden ring was lapp twink losers at wall of lothric. The multiplayer is now entirely vestigal especially with spirit ashes completely replacing the need for coop.
I feel like it makes sense for people who have gotten invaded to get angry with invaders. When you're just trying to peacefully play the game and you get one shot by a random invader, it only makes sense for the host to them approach with far more caution and gank the red immediately on first sight. Its very easy for invaders to make the game feel bad, people reciprocating that is the natural progression.
An interesting point you brought up is about the fun of ganking in DS3 vs ER. For context, in ds3 I spent most of my time invading at 90, meanwhile on ER I've been mostly sticking to the 40-80 range.
One thing I've really noticed as a difference is the lack of repeat gankers. In ds3, there were usually a few recognizable names and even just sticking to the archives I would run into a squad a few times over the course of weeks or months. In ER I have never seen a ganker more than one day. Like sure I'll invade a team multiple times one evening but then never again.
Sure this could be due to the size of the playerbase, but there are multiple hosts that I've run into during different points of their playthrough. So it really feels to me that people will try ganking for one night and then put the game away again.
Interesting. DS3 ganks had a lovable rogue sort of feel. There were more tools to space them as a single invader, given how much more head-to-head physical combat oriented DS3 is. ER projectile & AoE spam just makes these less fun. Also the lack of true combos.
there are a couple of repeat gankers on pc, but generally they are of the shitty kind and you're likely going to block them or be blocked by them... so nogood there either.
Dedicated gank squads always have been, and always will be pathetic. Now if it’s a host and 2 summons playing through the game, that’s completely different. There WAS a difference in dedicated gank squads in DS3 in the areas where the player limit was increased so that you could have 3v3’s. That’s nowhere near as bad as dedicated gank squads in Elden Ring.
I really wish they’d just increase the player limit to at LEAST 5, that way there can be 2 invaders vs the 3 gankers.
Anyway, this doesn’t mean as an invader I will complain about gankers. That’s the entire point of invading, to go up against multiple players. I’m just not a fan of facing dedicated gank squads, that have builds literally dedicated to ganking. The worst ones are the ones who gank in a very bad area (somewhere that has a lot of wide open space) and there’s either 1 players spamming the insane projectiles in ER while the other 2 rush you down with PSGS’ or just really oppressive offensive pressure weapons. OR 2 players spamming the projectiles while 1 player is in your face rushing you down. I think both are equally difficult to deal with, especially if the gankers have any semblance of knowing what they’re doing at least as far as ganking is concerned.
I think the biggest issue I have with gankers and duelists is that they completely miss what an invader and wants when invading. The ideal invasion in my mind is a group of players who are just playing the game, and doing otherwise is confusing to me. Duelists literally have the coliseum if they want 1v1s, and having an overleveled phantom play the game for you defeats feels like a waste of money for the host, and ganking is just lame. it's weird that they made being invaded multiplayer only since people summoning typically need the most help, and those who aren't needing it the least, with that change making me want to invade in the first place.
I dislike "duelists" more than anything. I love invading but I don't want to deal with some hooser validation tech. Though there all a few I appreciate like benya
I feel like invaders dont know what hosts and co-op players often want most, and that is to just play the game 💀
@@pooperdooper3576 being invaded is playing the game lmao.
@cowspoopmagic so is ganking, if hosts can't complain about invasions because it's "part of the game" then invaders can't complain about ganking because it's also just "part of the game"
@@pooperdooper3576 invaders don't complain about ganking that I've seen save for a few tits.
I completely understand why people gank. But wow, am I happy to have discovered the invader community before ever going down that route. I love introducing friends to these games, so we mostly just duel (train them) and fight the pve. When an invasion occurs, we give an honest fight while trying to progress through the area. All that aside, this video was a fascinating insight into the mind of an actually intelligent, articulate, challenge seeking player with a big-picture view of the pvp dynamic.
I thinking the main issue is when competent or more, players gank. Because of the system at hand it's not remotely balanced
cant wait for the DLC when late game invasions arent 95% gankers waiting on first step
You lightly touched on that in your previous videos but it truly cannot be understated how hard Fromsoft fucked up the multiplayer by mostly just taking stuff out of it.
No natural solo host invasions means that invaders almost only fight teams and if you coop you will literally be invaded every 10 minutes when the timer resets.
No real factions or covenants means that not only have they largely killed the roleplaying aspect, you also get no real reward for doing invasions or playing as a blue.
Blues are somehow even less fun to play as or fight against than in ds3 due to multiple factors.
4 player limit i don't have to explain either i think.
The taunters tongue working the way it does is easily exploitable and worse than the dried finger in every way. Also, fcking AFK farmers.
As far as i can see, the only positive change they made was adding the "wex dust" feature and they only added it in a later patch.
Love your vids by the way, i sincerely hope for you to keep growing and making them.
I really don’t think we should even be letting FromSoft get away with their busted ass rip off wex dust. They implemented it in the worst way they could have AND it was MONTHS after the game dropped.
DS3 Wex Dust: Has an in depth area filter down to different segments of a level. Starts searching in areas that actually have activity near your level. Searches an area every 5 seconds. Official ER Wex Dust: No area filter. Searches literally anywhere you've been no matter what level you are. Only does a single search every 30 seconds.
It's pretty miserable.
@@OrangeWaterLemons They could at least let us an option to toggle certain areas on or off.
Only took 6 months for wex dust, give them a break! lmao
Blues are USELESS, they shouldn't even be in the game lmao, with a 4 player cap there is literally no reason they should exist, if it was 6 like ds3 then yeah
I got my main character in DS3 to level 420 thanks to multiplayer. High level pvp after Sulyvahn have been some of the most fun I've had in my life, me and my friend would simply go there and wait for people to arrive. If only 1 invader showed up, one of us would duel, otherwise it was a mess of summons and invasions: aldritch servants would arrive, blues would try to help us, some other random invaders would show up. It was awesome, especially when one of us two died and it was a chase back just after Sulyvahn just to summon each other. Not to mention the number of strats and unique quirks that game had (using Rosaria's ring to stay hidden, using the Cat ring to quickly escape or the FAP ring glitch on the stairs, awesome whenever it turned into a 2v1 or 3v1)
And then Elden Ring came. It took everything good DS3 did and deleted it: as an invader, it is frustrating; as a ganker, it is boring. I could point out various problems I have with this game (namely the incredibly high damage output compared to DS3) but the biggest one is the 4 player limitation. Why? I understand it's a different game, that it is much much bigger and more focused on exploration, but shouldn't everything get better? This game killed fight clubs and brawls simultaneously.
There is, for me, no incentive whatsoever to play pvp in ER. It's a game of spin the wheel: will you get ganked by a 2 guys who cleared the area, 3 guys who cleared the area or will you encounter 2 total newbies?
Elden Ring invasions was the catalyst for me to break my skill ceiling. I learned menu/parry swapping, frame perfect blocks, pivot backstabs, made near perfect builds that met every poise breakpoint. Invasions nowadays feel like an endurance test. These kinds of techniques in DS3 are used by extremely high skilled players and it was very rare you’d encounter them (Even in fight clubs). With Elden Ring there’s such little room for error that these techniques feel like a necessity rather than an optional choice to improve your skills. W video
gank squads have absolutely nothing to do with wanting to play with friends and everything to do with being upset that bad red man killed you one time
No it isn't. It's to have fun ruining the fun of invaders. That they don't enjoy it makes it more fun, which is basically exactly the same as why invasions are fun. Don't like it? Don't invade. You sign up for being ganked every time you invade. The only difference between the gank squads and normal invasions is that the gankers are prepared for you.
I've done plenty of both across all of these games, by the by. Taunter's tongue makes it pretty clear that ganking is absolutely intended.
@RadishAcceptable I mean, you open by "refuting" my statement, but then proceed to write two paragraphs either agreeing with me or countering arguments I never made.
you have it backwards my friend: invading is not an invitation to get ganked, summoning a phantom is an invitation to get invaded. don't like it? don't play co-op. but hosts can't play offline, bc then they'd get stomped by the game. there's a reason a majority of phantoms are overlevelled when compared to the host, lol.
@@ghost-iv8gt Yes it is, in both cases, again as someone who has invaded plenty. Taunter's tongue exists for a reason.
If you invade, you're agreeing to get ganked. The game doesn't even let you invade when the number of players is even. Literally the only difference between a normal invasion and a group of players ganking on purpose is that the "gankers" are ready for the invader.
It's fun to stomp invaders into the ground and ruin their fun. It's got nothing to do with "huur duur red man bad." It's just about ruining their fun for your own enjoyment. It's exactly the same appeal as killing hosts who have no clue how to PvP.
Don't like getting invaded? Don't play multiplayer at all.
Don't like getting ganked? Don't invade.
That's how the multiplayer in these games works. If you want fair fights, play Arenas.
@@RadishAcceptable you're so close but keep missing the mark. you keep bringing up taunter's tongue but you clearly don't know how it works, bc a solo player with it on can still get invaded so that entire point of yours is invalidated.
"gankers don't gank to gank, they gank to kill invaders" is certainly one of the arguments of all time. every ganker has the same origin story: they died to bad red man and they know they can't win otherwise. I'm so sick of this "hurr durr don't like ganks go play arena lmao im so smart" bc literally no one is making that argument. you claim to have all this play-time on both sides but you very demonstrably do not understand why people invade in the first place, which is probably the root of our little disagreement here.
@@ghost-iv8gt simply not true. I'm a ganker sometimes. I never lost to the bad red man because I don't summon for my own PvE. You're simply wrong. Cry about it.
And it's not "huuur duuur gankers don't gank to gank duuur yuuuuur." It's "Gankers gank so they can enjoy ruining the fun of the invader." It's fun! Don't like it? Don't invade. I'll still switch between invading and ganking, enjoying it when I ruin hosts fun (that's the whole point), and also ruining invaders fun when I'm ganking. When I get ganked? I usually die, but I don't cry about it and snivel to other people on the Internet over it. Rarely, I'll still win when ganked (usually with mob help). Toughen up. If you can't handle it, play arenas. The fights aren't supposed to be fair with invasions.
Ganking is literally letting someone else play the game for you/the Host. Most of them can’t hold their own ground, at all. Even more when they lose one or two of their beloved yellow boyfriends, sooooo…
Yeah I’m sure there’s players even most who have their friends playing with them because they just wanna play the game like that but more or less it hinders their ability to learn the game in both PVE and PVP
So to you, If someone buys the game with their money and decides to play, LETS SAY, with a friend or whatever, and someone invades them, for your personal and subjective reason your want them tô say How they play...? I know souls players are judges and adjucators by themselves but that never cease to amuse me😂😂
@@Spid4r1 this is the mindset that consumerism is employed upon a lot of useful idiots like yourself we’re all playing a game here my guy no different from playing baseball or any other sport only differences. It’s a video game balancing changes is only fair
@@Spid4r1 portuguese speaker detected, caralho engaged.
@@Spid4r1soyjak
In Elden Ring, it is possible to make ganks that are ACTUALLY unbeatable, and I mean that. The amount of spell spam you can do in Elden Ring with 3 players can be equivalent to using cheat engine and firing a bunch of spells at once, the invader gets frametrapped or has no chance to do anything but attempt dodging, all the while their health gets chipped down... DS3 had it's own charm that was destroyed with Elden Ring and I sadly do not see that charm coming back with the DLC. Hopefully their next souls type game isn't this bad in the PvP regard.
An the password summons going in unscaled to basically one shot a boss or dropping there friends endgame gear
Yep and you can always summon a friend who is over leveled like lvl 400 at lvl 100 or you could just have a three man gang using duel bleed nagis The option serving an absolute tumor are just endless for ganks
its so brave of you to come out as a recovering ganker. i'm so proud of our community for accepting people with conditions like this. on a side note, really good vid
I recently got deeper into pvp and honestly it’s apart of the game you just gotta accept.
Sometimes there are ways around it
Sometimes you just gotta take the loss
Taking on a team of ppl is wild regardless so prepare and try things out.
Some Gank setups will actually be interesting to take on and creative.
Honestly, yeah ganking used to be fun and justifiable back in DS3, because reds could get teammates. It was actually fun to fight gank squads in my honest opinion, and I also used to gank all the time in DS3 with my friends. I miss those days so much.
I started as a pve player. Played with old friends that had moved away to other states. It was the only way I could really hang out with them. We would get invaded and I would always die because I didn’t understand pvp. They ruined my experience to no reward for them. Always hated them. Then I joined fight clubs, did elden ring colosseum matches, and a lot of duels. I got better because I didn’t want invaders to ruin my fun anymore. And now I beat the majority of them, but I still hate them. They challenge pve players to pvp which means it’s inherently not a fair fight and they always complain about the odds being against them. They just want to curb stomp weaker players for fun or else they would fight in the colosseum against real opponents. Whatever methods are used to beat these guys is justified. My personal preference is to beat them in a taunters tongue 1v1 to show them they would lose without using the entire environment to gank the host
I wish we got the covenant reward system from the dark souls series. That would have been fun farming npc’s and hosts.
My issue is, it's. Just. Not. Fun. On either side, it literally only serves to protect the lowest of the low on the skill ceiling. The worst part is people are STILL using twinks as this legendary feared boogeyman as an excise to sit on ass at the liurnia steps, twinks are dead, you cannot twink anymore, the host has just as much access to these tools as the invader the only difference is that your modern day 1 playthrough kevin doesnt want to put in that effort
The lack of fun is such an important flaw. I would accept so much crap so long as I could fight as many people as possible for as long as possible, but Elden Ring says no. Maybe next time
@emotionaljonxvx my major issue is more centered around weapons and ashes, I hope the DLC gives us MORE consistent and practical movesets and LESS L2 sticks
@@Bitter-Wounds We can only hope
Fromsoft when a host gets twinked: "Oh no, my sweet baby boy, I will protect you."
Fromsoft when an invader gets twinked: "Oh yeah, it's all coming together."
@@Bitter-Wounds yeah no
Invading wouldn't be such a bad mechanic if they wouldn't make you lose your runes, it's already bad enough that the odds aren't in your favor, so why implement punishment upon someone for trying to use a provided in game mechanic.
Also I think summoning shouldn't have been made to be free, I think it should've cost runes to summon someone cost should've depended on your lvl, here's my reason why, hosts can be ridiculously dumb or ignorantly careless, oftentimes they die right as you load in and feels like a waste of time, hence my reason time = money.
I play games as a whole, not just elden ring, a max of twice a week. Work all week, do stuff with my girl and around the house and whatnot leaves me little time to play anything. I have approximately 1 friend i still play anything online with and we'll hop on monster hunter or elden ring. It absolutely sucks ass when we finally coordinate a night to play for a few hours and it's just constant invasions over and over and over and over. We get online together to play maybe twice a month due to our schedules and the constant invasions just make it so un-enjoyable that we wind up playing solo and just bullshitting over headset. Some people love it, i liked it a bit more back in the dark souls 1-3 days but i simply don't have the time these days to get my ass stomped by someone running a crazy build optimized to combat 2 scrubby players against 1 lol. Because believe me my buddy and i both suck. Took me a good, oh idk, 14 months to finish elden ring the first time? Something like that, i am almost done with my ng+ run, too!
Here's my perspective. There are two kinds of 'gankers'. There's people who are just trying to play the game, either with randoms or friends, and then there's people who deliberately stay in one spot to be as annoying as possible to people just looking to do invasions. The former is fine, the latter is certified douchebag behavior.
First category is not gankers. It's just a coop players. They can "gank" invader like invader can "gank" host using PvE, it's just a part of the game.
@@oldensad5541 "gank fight" is usually used to refer to an outnumbered fight so
Ganking and twinking are just two sides of the same coin: players leveraging the flawed mechanics of the online play to have the most unfair fights possible. Players will justify using unfair strategies because of other players using things they perceive as unfair or lame. Ultimately the problems with ER PVP have to do with the fundamental balancing of the game which makes so many "cheap" strategies popular among both hosts and invaders.
Ganking is a justified evil for me to feel badass in a 4v1
Gonna be honest I think if someone is literally INVADING someone else’s world, they should go in expecting the unexpected. Why would someone play fair if they’re literally being invaded? Just my thoughts on it
Exactly, the expectation of fairness makes no sense.
@@Undeadsheperd in most cases when people say " fairness " they don't really mean fight me 1v1 ( well some do but we got something for that already ) but what they mainly mean is give the invader something as well. Everything is 100% in the host favor. Invaders get their stats, etc cut. In previous games yes it happens but they also allowed for invaders to POSSIBLY get back up or they had covenants for invaders or the mad phantoms ( though people had no idea how to play that they just acted like an invader instead of being the double agent ). There was more to invading than just go and get ganked. TLDR: Give the invaders a little something also be it a cool weapon or spell or what have you ( its not a lot but a start ). Player invasions should be more exciting and not treated like an NPC invasion.
@@OtaniNoAsagi I see what you mean but I don’t really mind how Elden Ring does things.
If those changes happen that you want then I’d like them too but I’m ok if things stay how they are.
The chaotic nature of Elden Ring pvp is fun to me.
I agree. Hiding in an unreachable area to farm invaders is unexpected, and is a practice that should be promoted 🤡
There's nothing wrong with asymmetrical gameplay I loved Evolve for the longest time. It gets unfair when I see a 300 hp host with his overleved phantoms in Limgrave that both have bleed setups w/ paired curved swords, and both take 100 damage max if that. Nothing about that is organic or even close to fun it's fucking boring for both sides and sucks any engagement I had with the game for the night an it ruins invasions
imo there’s a very big difference between dedicated gankers, and pve players who gank you because you happened to invade them.
Very true, I don't mean to lump everyone into one motivation. Just wanted to speak to how frustrating the multiplayer setup is compared to what it used to be.
@@emotionaljonxvx Yeah I get that I just wrote that to clear it up for people who think all gankers are dedicated gankers. Btw I’m mainly an invader.
There’s definitely a difference but it’s certainly not their skill
Started souls games with dark souls 3 as a ganker, and noob co-oper to becoming an invader myself. Ganking with randoms in the woods was the most memorable moment for me and little did I (noobie) know that I was playing the best PvP game back in 2016.
1:36 "In its most basic form, you should understand and accept that risk when you invade."
How I wish the other invaders will have this mindset, when the very same demand that the host to: "Accept and understand the risk of being invaded when you summon your friend to play the game with you."
And as for Elden Ring PvP? Well, I think we can all agree it's a severe, unneeded downgrade from DS3.
I missed that one time when I invaded a fight club at pontiff as a mad tongue, and it turned into a crazy chase.
I get why people get stuck in their own perspective, for better or worse. My favorite thing about making these videos is getting to analyze my own biases.
And I get to complain about how I want my fun game mode back.
@@emotionaljonxvx Fair, it's not wrong to complain. But sometimes the targets of the complaints end up against the wrong, sometimes innocent parties.
That's why sometimes I try to put out comments that are from perspectives of hosts/summons/phantoms.
Sadly you're one of the very few who are willing to open-mindedly get into a discussion.
Watching you invade in Lapps with ds axe throwing dung pies makes me so angry
Yeah, I didn't feel good about getting that footage. Felt it was necessary to demonstrate for those who never experienced it.
Unpopular opinion, Elden Ring is only considered "hard" because PvP builds aka min/maxxing damage infected solo play.
Instead of using tools to counter each boss individually, everybody, and I do mean everybody, thinks the game is meant to be played through using only one build all the way through instead of changing things around depending on the encounter.
Guess what, almost every boss in the game can be go from 1/2 shotting you to doing only tickle damage with livers, 1 talisman, and the right defence buff while wearing no armor at all at basically any rune level.
That Naruto invasion is genius. I hate gankers but if I was on the invader side of that I'd be laughing my ass off.
Ganking is always justified and right. It's so boring to see invaders at lvl 50 with endgame weapons and items trying to beat up on lower level players. I'm glad we are getting a mod to do away with invaders.
In Dark Souls 1-3, I usually just suicided off the side of a cliff or pinged out to avoid the soft ban. Otherwise I would just waste as much of their time as possible running away or just let them kill me as fast as possible if jumping off a ledge wasn't an option. Once I figured out how to ping out without getting the soft ban in DS 2 and 3, I never had to worry about invaders again.
i feel like the same people that defended marika's indiscriminate genocide and torture of the hornsent and all people in the shadowlands would be the same who would defend gankers...
I've done close to a 1000 invasions in DS3, but maybe only 100-150 in ER. Its just not the same anymore.
Too true. I'm trying to make the best of it and never want to rule out the possibilities the DLC could bring but it's definitely been a downgrade in a lot of significant areas. Maybe next game in 5+ years we'll get something better.
See me and my friends just honestly want to have co-op sessions and run through the areas naturally. Well since I've beaten the game, I go back and help my friends and just tell them that I will follow them around and help them and they can go wherever they want to go so that they still have that sense of natural discovery that the game does so well. So when we get invaded, I tried to use every anti-invader tactic I can to get out the way so that we can go back to Jr and co-op LOL. Sometimes we have to backtrack in areas to make sure we didn't miss anything and we will get invaded in areas where all of the enemies are killed, so it may come off to an invader that we are ganking, but we honestly are not LOL.
Honestly, I've experienced a higher rate of friendly invaders than I have even a non-hostile gank squad. Invaders have been all over the place in terms of hostility. Bloodthirsty, playful, honorable, and even friendly, trying to lead me through the map for secrets I haven't found.
Meanwhile, gankers have virtually no variance in quality or temperament. They were nearly all cruel, heartless, and aggressive to a fault. I choose not to be super aggressive while invading, because my builds are almost all PvE-focused, or cosplay builds. I try to be friendly when invading because I only ever invade to get to Mohgwyn Palace early. I have no reason to care, or even win. Gankers never take the hint. No matter what I try to do, it's all hostility all the time, and rarely with any creativity. It's always the same builds, the same weapons, the same spells, and not a single shred of honor or respect to be found.
Ganking is the reason I don't care about invasions: there's nothing to be excited about. In DS1, Invasions didn't require a summon to be in the world, which gave me, the invader, a chance to show mercy to an unprepared opponent. In DS3, I got to participate in the glorious fight clubs and the chaotic beat-em-up scenarios. In Elden Ring, it's pointless. It's almost always me against 3, all with the same, cookie-cutter builds, and no sense of dignity in victory or loss. It's all pointless.
i think a good way to tweak invasions and make gank fights more fun is if the number of invaders you can face is tied to the number of people you have summoned at once and the taunter's tongue adds one more to that limit and the activation you can't go back on until you're the only player in the world. and having the white ring active should also count towards that invader limit, but only if you have only one summon. basically, these would be the invader count formulas:
host+white ring=0 invaders
host+taunters=1 invader
host+summon=1 invader
host+summon+white ring=2 invaders
host+2 summons=2 invaders
host+2 summons+white ring=2 invaders
host+summon+taunters=2 invaders
host+white ring+taunters=2 invaders
host+summon+white ring+taunters=3 invaders
host+2 summons+taunters=3 invaders
host+2 summons+white ring+taunters=3 invaders
As soon as I spawn at radaghns beach or the first steps, I’m out. I’m not about to spend the next 10mins rolling 3 man magic spam and off screen moonveils until one eventually hits me. I’m also not here to honour duel.
Unrelated to the topic of ganking, but I like that you wrote a script for your video to explain a topic such as this. Speaking into an open mic has its charm but when approaching subjects like this one its better to have a plan. Good job, man.
The first clip with the dragon, that's not a true toxic gank trap. Those are usually staged somewhere with narrow hallways, after all of the enemies have been destroyed. No place to fall to your death, no place to dodge away from dragon breath, no enemies to back you up. In my opinion ganking is a controversial but ultimately distasteful way to play the game. I mean I understand why people do it, if they've spent most of their initial time getting killed by talented invaders. They want retribution, sure, but I'm hoping that, after unfairly ganging up on invaders in a small, empty dungeon, that they eventually realize that it's no longer fun. This is coming from someone that used to gank quite a bit. You just start to feel bad after awhile. It's actually more fun to fight invaders, either as a team or 1v1, when the invader has a dragon that can help them, or a bunch of zombies, or any one of you can fall to your death. It's chaotic and way more entertaining.
To me Invasions is part of the identity of the Soulsborne franchise--and much like how Hosts run the risk of Invasions, it's only fair that we run the risk of being ganked. I hope that they bring back Invasion Covenants though--one of the best parts of the invasions to me
I come from similar grounds, having both ganked and participated in regular invasions, I participate more in invasions, and generally tend to go into spur of the moment ganks, where I solo host and turn blues on, so what starts as a 1v1 turns into an eventual gank. But in my days in DS3 I did go for genuine ganks with randoms I met online, sometimes we'd contact each other to keep going and turn passwords on so we could find each other to keep facilitating it.
For me, I just love the thrill of chaotic combat, I want nothing more than for a 6 player limit to return, or at least a 5 player limit with 2 dedicated invader slots. (also prevent taunters from being turned off until all other players are removed from the session) I want CHAOS, I want things to turn on a dime at any moment, I want purples back, I want team covenants where 2 people of the same covenant could actually buff each other as invaders. I want exciting and ever-changing battlefields!
In Elden Ring, when I host I strictly solo host with blues on, I don't care if the Invader runs away to use PvE before he even knows if blues are active. I don't care if I'm called scummy for it, I just like battles that have a realistic chance of going either way, instead of being strongly in the favour of myself or my opponent, without just being strict 1v1s, 2v2s and 3v3s in the colosseum. Because the melding of the PvE and the PvP in the game world is what I really love.
Here's the issue for me. PvP is no longer something that Miyazaki designed it to be. It's a fucing sweat fest that people who just wanna play with friends get dragged into. Invaders and gankers alike have decided to skip playing the actual game and focus on the pvp aspect and to do this they go in offline mode and use cheat engine to build characters in every bracket, spawn 99 of every consumable and have spent countless hours learning to hardswap weapons and trinkets to deal with dealing with the ganksquads that are out there that they lose to most of the time anyway.
So when an invader hits unsuspecting pve players who just wanna have fun with friends. It's tilted towards the invader who has unlimited heals though consumables. and knows the ins and outs of the maps and is using the most broken busted setups for pvp and they usually clobber pve guys. Most of these people invade at lower levels where they are most likely to see just random pve players trying to enjoy co-op.
I play as a hunter so I can die and refill my fellow reds flasks
As someone who has finally started just taunter's tonguing (lol sounds lewd) to lure invaders while playing solo, I have grown to enjoy the challenge but hearing your side of the story makes me wanna experience the Invasion experience of dark souls 3.
If someone just wants to play the game and beat a level, I feel like it’s justified. But if people are straight up baiting invaders to gank, then that’s just low
the argument of "you cant demand quality or consistency" is really bad. yes i absolutely can bc i paid money for this product. where would humans be now if we didnt expect quality from the things we made? thats like telling a North Korean he cant demand a better quality of life because the standard of living in North Korea is just what the government has facilitated so it is what it is. its a REALLY bad argument.
later what you said about Elden Ring i can get on board with though, i was expecting a better pvp experience. i had no delusions about invasions going back to how they were in ds1, but i was totally NOT expecting an even lower player limit, no covenants, and no invasion zones. that was just wild to me lol.
Well I did have the qualifier that you can't demand quality or consistency beyond what the game facilitates. Sorry if that point wasn't clear. I don't think it's okay for the experience to be crappy, just that the game allows players to be however they want and that's more on the game rather than the player.
Ultimately as an active invader, I don't inherently dislike 3 stacks. People are playing w their friends and I am in fact, injecting myself into their session with the spirit of ''git gud'' as Miyazaki intended, so it's expected that I'll end up sandwiched between the power of friendship. However, my one point of annoyance with gankers, is the very clear intention of NOT going through the game, of NOT playing through the game with your friends and repelling me, but rather, create an arena scenario where you stack everything you can against the invader who by design is playing at a disadvantage to begin with. This is also done, often times, with openly dislike mechanics and strats by both pvp-ers and pve-ers at times.
It gives the same vibe as people who use the busted stuff like swift slash spammers, chainsaw glitch, sleep phantom hit abusers, madness and death blight glitch interaction users.
Where invaders, normal pve players, normal arena pvp-ers are interacting with the game, this sort of gankers and cheesers in arena seem to be interacting with the people outside of the game with the hopes of annoying/trolling other players. (I know that invaders tend to have this reputation themselves, but at least in the ways I do invasions, where at times I dont even actually kill the host). It feels like an extension of griefing over just gaming, and that's what leaves a bad after taste from a cringe gank squad or a cringe arena pvp-er.
Dude ganking is literally like the funniest thing ever, me and my buddies used to do that in dark souls 3 all the time, we would use that item that turns you into a tree or something, then the host would lure him over to us and we would annihilate him lmao funnest shit i ever did with the boys.
Here's the thing I don't get. It's so easy to not get invaded, and if you are invaded and stick to the online consent form (we all literally agree to every time we open the game) and don't disconnect wich many who get mad at the mad red men do, then you don't have the ability to get invaded again for like 20 minutes.
I'm not a invader, and this isn't everyone, but disconnecters are not uncommon and it's worth saying that it is pretty much only to their detrament to disconnect constantly. Different issue then the video, but one with lots of overlap.
ERs invasion system is the biggest tragedy of the whole game. Even just adding just one more invader making it 3v2 and fixing how the taunters tung/blues work would be infinitely more fun and would almost fix everything. It still wouldn’t be perfect but it really would make it less frustrating for most involved
Glad to hear a sensible take on ganking. I have been an invader since Dark Souls on the 360 and Elden Ring has had the most unfulfilling ganks. I used to be ecstatic to gank spank in Anor Londo/Pontiff's Porch, but now when I see hosts turning off the Taunter's Tongue I just sever out. A real tragedy of out-of-touch game design.
(edit)
I think fighting ganks has become more tiresome for other reasons, too. While I never sought out meta level ganks in the Ringed City, fighting ganks was typically an enjoyable change of pace in a very "lean forward in my chair" kind of way, the same way a very difficult boss is the first go around. Also - magic, especially sorcery, is much more oppressive in a gank than in prior games due to it's incredible tracking and quick casting. Pure mage builds were not nearly as omnipresent as they are in gank squads today.
it really depends where/when we get invaded if we gank or not. if were doing a fight club or messing around, we play fair and 1v1, but if its the deathblight dungeon and your just waiting in the room where the eyes kill you, expect triple jar cannon explosions.
Ds3 PvP will always be my favorite. It was far from perfect, but the 3v3 wars with ever changing odds were beyond trying to describe. I miss the good days.
Most people that play elden ring hate Pvp due to the fact that they hate having their progress disrupted or hate loosing to other players.
You might love pvp just like myself, but the rest of the casuals despise it. They would prefer if they could play with friends and only against friends, not other individuals.
If you don't meet certain standards when invading, just move on to invading another players. The world doesn't revolves around you (and me). Other players also have their own preference, level of skills, and so on. They are justified to play their own game and not meeting your standard, as long as it's legal mechanics in the game. Don't like ER? Don't play it.
No matter how good you try to "rationalize" the situation, other people also have their rights to rationalize it with their perspective.
Broooo you can't pull out the poop slinging Ds3 invader. That type of player is 100% the reason gankers hate the bad red man so much lol
Saw way more poop from pontiff ganks than i ever did invaders back then. There's a reason they are called sh*tters. That said, legit ganks provided a lot of fun challenge in DS3. Fighting an even halfway honorable gank in DS3 was the most fun I've ever had with these games.
@@joshuathompson2404 Exactly because it goes both ways. Someone got poop thrown at them once and the rivalry was born. Also totally agree ganks were how I had a fun fight after you get too good at 1v1
Is it only ganking if u running meta and op stuff, cuz ngl messing about with ur mate waiting for the dlc is fun
That entrance at 15:45 got me in stitches. Holy shit.
I’ve plenty of hours in DS3, over 2k I believe and you cannot believe how hyped I was for Elden Ring and its possible invasion possibilities, now, 2 years after release, I only have about 600 hours on ER.
This may sound like a lot to some but I wished to play the game a lot more with Invasions in mind, in DS3 I made builds and went through the game as a sort of set up for pvp but Elden Ring is too big in size, weapon (arts) do too much damage and the 4 player limit on online play is simply too small to even enjoy…
The footage from this video and especially the end reminded me of the days where I actually enjoyed invading and the older IronPineapple videos, so nostalgic even if it wasn’t that long ago.
I'm glad the seamless coop mod exists so I can play with my buds without interruption!
Well, as an invader with more than 2k h in DS3 i can confidently say: ganking is NEEDED in this series. It's not justified, it's not good thing to do (usually) and clearly any pretention of it being some form of justiece is self deseption... but, as PvE hosts need their bad scary red guy, big scary red guys need their own vilains. Putting down 5v1 was ultimate challenge and best expieriecnes i've ever had, and never i wish it would be balanced, patched or somehow disturbed.
And yeah, like not all invaders are a twinks or tryhards, hosts also far from being exlusiveley gankers, so if invader lack skill to deal with gank... he can just invade in different area, learn how to play more efficiently, and try again later, coz there is always would be gank somewhere.
Him: "Gankers the lowest of the low. Filth wrought from their iron dross, corrupted by their collective shame.
Me: LIKE
Him: "Might they be noble?"
Me: DISLIKE
I usually end up as a ganker because I enjoy playing the game with friends, and don't like invasions.
I do try not to bombard an invader with the many of us- thinking more in a "swap-out" style of engagement, but sometimes we do feel the need to try and overwhelm an invader.
Thankfully, with Seamless Co-op, I don't need to worry about being invaded... only the npc invaders who kick my ass harder than most of the bosses.
I would like to add that I'm also so bad at PvP that the invader almost always won anyways, so it's not like my ganking benefitted me at all.
Gankers are saints, I usually use area in front of Bayle or Radahn, summon hunters and kick them before they die(everyone knows why),turn off TT after appearing first invader, and ofc, use rune arc and cancer weapons. I hate when invaders cry about gankers, they want to kill pve - people, that are always weaker than them. In my opinion, they have to play arena and only arena. Gankers improve pvp environment.
I don’t care what anyone says, ganking is justified. You say that invasions are apart of the game but so is co-op and the ability to summon multiple allies. Sure it might be “bullying” but people who are playing co-op might not want to be invaded. They could be new players who need help, friends trying to hangout, or people who simply enjoy playing with other people. And it’s not like being invaded is an optional thing theirs no on and off with invasions so these people who are simply trying to enjoy co-op are interrupted by invaders.
As a duelist-turned-ganker-turned-invader, very similar to your journey, I never quite saw invaders as The Bad Red Man. When I was ganking in ds3, I mostly just wanted to give them someone to fight, and since I usually only had one friend to play with, it was nice giving blues chances to get some Proofs since we were slightly more competent than the average host. I eventually got good enough at invading in ds3 to win in a 3v1 or even 5v1, and I actually liked trying to invade the same gankers over and over like a boss fight. We had our own ecosystem and I contributed to both sides regularly.
I just wish it was more fun in Elden Ring. My main issue isn't even the player limit but rather the fact that everyone dies in 1 to 3 hits. It's like everyone is always using the spell and weapon art swap glitches discovered at the end of DS3's life cycle, except all the time. Even if we had the 6 player limit I think it would get even worse because of all the bullshit. I really wish they'd reduce the overall damage dealt in PvP by half.
When elden ring first came out, the multiplayer was actually very fun around level 40 at the academy with my ultra greatsword and bloodhound step. But that was only because bloodhound step made it possible to be at even footing with an often inexperienced gank squad
Souls pvp is at its best those first few weeks, until everyone figures out the meta and start abusing the same 4-5 weapons.
My friend and I would spend hours at pontiff ganking. I also have well over a couple thousand pale tongues. DS3 ganks/gank spanks were literally peak souls and arguably peak gaming imo
i think other fundamental problems is the reason invasions typicaly arent fun, such as ridiculously high damage and spamming. All co-opers/gankers generally have to do is spam aows to win(not a single brain cell needed). For example, getting stun-locked to death because you got hit by the 14th reduvia thrown at you. Invasions are supposed to be challenging, that's a given, but some invasions feel overly oppressive and just not fun
Speaking broadly, absolutely. I really don't care for Elden Ring's power scaling when compared to previous entries. I love sword and sorcery, not as crazy about swords made of sorcery. In Dark Souls 3, I felt like I had a good chance of back & forth regardless of how potent my build was, but in Elden Ring I know high level invasions means high, constant damage. There are always exceptions but Elden Ring has pushed the scaling considerably higher and I'm not a fan.
if i simply had to take a guess From just looked at the win/loss ratio of hosts and kept buffing them in order to reach an acceptable percentage. i don't agree with some of the changes but this is largely brought on by twinks and imo may be From nerfing what they consider as unfair as most invaders have way more hours in the game than most hosts/co-opers. honestly the PVE in ER is leagues higher than any other DS game, piling on top of that an invader that is actually good is an unwinnable situation for a host even with a gank. you can essentially view it as skill based matchmaking but instead of rank it's number of opponents.
it's likely very hard for invaders to understand since they (no offense, i've seen probably hundreds of videos of invader ranting) are pretty short sighted. an invader can essentially hold your world hostage and in the open world they can for the most part hide and prevent the host from resting and drain them of resources and wait for a kill opportunity especially during an open world boss, against an elite, gravity assist, or the most common one is to drag the host and phantoms into a never ending gauntlet of mobs, this may be what From wanted out of invaders but it does not feel skillful or satisfying. i tried invasions at the start and i didn't find it fun as it essentially pigeonholes you to a certain playstyle so i just went back to duels/arena and recently co-oping.
i definitely agree i preferred DS3's invasion and dmg scaling better. essentially the dmg of R1/R2 are way too low compared to AOW which is why most players just spam them (i feel the majority of them should be utiltiy focused rather than dmg focused). compared to DS3 where dmg was much higher in terms of % of hp taken without the ability to delete a phantom in a few seconds you will perpetually be on the back foot. early ER dmg scaling was right imo, with some certain exceptions. (the pvp dmg modifier in my opinion is what forces invasions to be such a slog, yet every invader praises it) i personally think having the DLC area set to 6 player maximums would be ideal and may bring back gank city, but is dependent on the level design. personally i don't know a solution that would "fix" ER invasions tbh i don't think anyone does not From not even invaders themselves as most solutions are just buffs to themselves. having a 3v2 imo would just have invaders winning most matchups as for some seemingly weird reason From seems to have opted to nerf invaders rather than balance the things in game.
I personal think pvp simply isn't the focus of the game. Just a little speed bump for players that want to play through the game with friends. Otherwise, any other form of pvp invading is just happenstance. The duelist finger is the worse joke/cruellest prank in that regard.
Elden Ring just doesn't seem to be for invaders. Rather dark souls 3 is. Which i think is a good thing honestly. It keeps both games alive for different crowds.
Elden ring could have just copy-pasted ds3's format for multiplayer and could have been brilliant, giving the 'covenants' different fingers to use to invade, they even had it partially set up with vyke and elanora having unique titles
But we didn't even get a mound makers (my favorite thing to be) equivalent, this is not only a disservice but also a deliberate downgrade that has me wondering how intended invasions even were
Ganking comes in various forms. Back in Dark Souls 1 gankers could summon duelists with red summon signs lmao. It was horrible
This video is solid heres to my DS3 veterans
i played so much multiplayer in ds2 and ds3 in a variety of ways (co-op, covenant summoning/invading, invasions, fight clubs) and i was so hyped for what innovations Elden Ring would bring on this front. It so very disappointing to see the state of multiplayer throughout the early life of the game, especially when that's the most densely populated it would ever be. I realized I would never get randomly invaded as a solo player, removing the signature tension that souls games have always had. I realized I would always be invading into a 2-on-1 or worse odds. That there were no covenant-based battleground areas, which were my favorite things in the previous games. That wearing the blue ring would usually be bringing me into a now 3-on-1 fight. But worst of all, the connectivity was so broken early on for PC that eventually I gave up even trying to help people in PVE co-op. Connectivity eventually got fixed and I've enjoyed a lot of co-op and what little PVP I've bothered with, but it's such a let down that my favorite aspect of these games has been gutted (in what seems to be a purposeful way).
I'm hoping there will be some new multiplayer modes with this new expansion, but I'm not holding my breath...
Unlike crucible duels when you invade someone you are willing to take the risk of the unkown that's a choice you make and the consequences maybe that you get ganked and that's ok.
I don't join in ganking invaders when the host is farming them. It feels gross. I prefer fighting world bosses and fighting the invader at the same time. something to add an advantage to the environment. But also it's a game no moral question needed
Y'know i actually bought Elden ring explicitly for the PvP, after enjoying dark souls so much. I wasn't fully sure why Elden ring felt so... Wrong, but i think you put it well: it's when invading and 3 people just kill you, it's just not fun, for anyone. Are you farming for runes? Do you like the feeling of power? Do you suck so bad that you can't fight without two others? Like, c'mon, that sucks.
Besides, they're also the people who want to just stick to "the meta" and never try anything fun.
Ive been trying to do a death blight build (lmao) and it's... Basically unusable, but in spite of that i enjoy it because no one expects death blight
My theory is that ganking in Elden Ring is simply about getting a kick out of humilliating players.
There is no longer any lofty reasons involved, and it isn't particularly fun due to the limitations you noted. This also means that most gankers are genuinely toxic. Most of of them are extremely cowardly, too. They have big damage gear, but generally low skill.
Look if you're in the overworld trying to progress the game gank away, the game literally gives host that overwhelming numbers advantage so a host trying to just progress the game through co-op won't be blitzed by an invader and have their progress instantly lost... but...
If you're a Host in one the duel spots and just camping with your gank squad? You're just douchey trash and you should feel bad because you are bad, git good gankers.
I’m generally fine with normal gankers. I actually love running into gankers with a theme or cosplay, because it presents a really challenging engaging combat opportunity, even if they rush you with the intent of “justice against the bad red man.”
What I really hate is the wave of gold, star shower, dragon breath ganks in a tiny closet with no room to maneuver. The former is fun and interesting, the latter is intentionally vindictive and lacking in both skill and honor.