As for the Aging Untouchable in the Abyssal Woods, there is a torn diary page in the manor that says ""I touched him, but only once. When he thrust his staff in my face, I brushed it aside. It was then that I touched him" This suppose to suggest you should parry them, but it is easy to miss and not clear at all
About the Aging Untouchables: I believe the developers wanted it to be a stealth mission, which is why they hid a hint in a diary entry in Midra's Manse. The parry mechanic as a means for dealing with the Aging Untouchables is deliberately obscured because they wanted to encourage stealth while adding a hidden cheat for repeat players while also giving new players the option of consulting a guide. I'm not saying I even enjoy it, but i do appreciate it.
Dudeeee. Your video got thrown into my autoplay while I was leveling up my next char for the DLC and I immediately thought: "Huh, haven't heard that voice before. Probably another really good huge channel talking about Elden ring." And then I tab out of the game at the end and see you only have 57 subs? If your this good, this early on your way you have a bright future ahead! Really solid analysis and especially the final statement hit hard and true. keep it coming!
ER bosses do have less downtime between their attacks than in old souls games, but they give you so many more opportunities to hit them WHILE they attack. You were very close to this revelation when you spoke about jumping in combat Jumping allows you to avoid attacks while attacking at the same time, by doing a jumping attack. The recovery frames of a jump attack also allow you to duck under a boss's followup attack. At least 8 of Rellana's attacks can be jumped over, and therefore you can punish her way way more often when you do Strafing and spacing attacks also gives you more punish windows, since you dont have to wait for the roll recovery and get a little hit in. Or you can strafe a combo finisher to have more time for a heavier punish. This also allows you to get your ash of war off Same goes for delayed attacks, you have time to hit the boss during the animation before you roll All of these things lead to more stance breaks, which is a cool breather for those who need it. You also usually get 3 openings with a stance break. Hit a boss while stance broken, then riposte before the boss wakes up, and then you can hit them again during their stagger recovery So yes, SOTET bosses are a lot less turn based. And im all here for it Edit: you should really jump more against dancing lion specifically. The breath and the frost AOE'S are much easier to dodge if you jump. Putrescent Knight is also much easier to hit if you jump over his swings and come down with a jumping attack
I agree. You have to identify windows to heal and attack unless you have a very tanky or powerful ranged build, then it becomes much more turn based. I think a lot of people are picking playstyles that don't match their preference or (frankly) skill level.
@@bobdobbz9334 THey want to play like they used to play the older games and don't understand or erefuse to accept that whatever souls game skills they accrued over the years isn't enough. They have to be patient and learn the bosses for that playstyle to work. And it absolutely still does. I'm a total scrub player and am doing a R1, blessing 0 now.
@@GD-nu4iz I was a mage my first playthrough of Demon's Souls on PS3. Day one, actually. I'm as OG as it gets. And different playstyles used to be celebrated. Now anyone who uses magic or summons is 'cheesing'. Like wtf? Since when?
@bobdobbz9334 thats silly. All playstyles are valid. What isn't valid is complaining the bosses aren't fair when you refuse to use the tools the devs give you to make thwm easier, or spend the time to learn the kits.
I went through the DLC blind my first playthrough. I feel you on not knowing where to go. But for me, that's half the fun of that first playthrough. I figured out most of the secrets of the DLC on my own by reading everything and scouring every corner. Enjoyed the vid.
Everything and I mean everything could've been so good. The biggest letdown for me was the final section and the final boss, like you said, no matter how much new movesets and flair they could give to Radahn, he simply was and will never really be.. a final boss material. For me, the best part of the DLC were really just the Shadow Keep and the Jagged peak. Hell, every time i replay the dlc, I just imagine Bayle and Messmer as the final two bosses, enir ilim is just a backdrop and an optional boss.
While I agree with the general idea that the DLC has taken the collective discovery cryptic secrets thing a bit too far, I think you chose the worst possible example with the winter lantern knock-offs. That's actually the ONE aspect of the DLC that the developers really overcommunicated on. The area before each encounter is completely covered in developer messages (which unlike the Souls games, dev messages have a unique appearance to differentiate from player messages) that repeatedly hammer home the point that the Untouchables are unkillable enemies that must be avoided with stealth. Like, the messages repeat in later areas before every encounter. The areas you find them in are full of bushes you can hide in (along with noisemaker traps which aren't a big surprise as similar traps appeared as early as Limgrave). The fact that you can parry them to death is meant to be a secret, only hinted at in a note you find at the very end before Midra. You are meant to avoid the enemy, it's a stealth gimmick section that is very heavily signposted. I agree that Miquella's great rune breaking and other NPC questlines are far too cryptic, but I think you hurt your own point by focusing on one gimmick area that's the only example I can think of in the whole game where the developer tells the player what to do directly rather than hide it in a riddle like those gesture-locked secrets.
This. Exactly my thoughts. DLC is great, bosses are difficult but not fun. I think that FromSoft were just so excited and focused on making hard bosses, that they just forgot to make them fun. I remember Ludwig and Orphan of Kos, that were probably most hard bosses I fought in video game. But they never were frustrating or disappointing. They were just hard. And fun to fight against. I never summoned an npc to fight Ludwig cause I didn’t want to make that fight easier and less challenging. And here, I don’t want to fight almost any of the dlc bosses and using all possible means, summons, items to make the fight as short as possible just because it’s not fun. Except for a couple of bosses. And as someone said in a different video, when you beat a well designed boss you feel joy, not a relief.
The Euporia got buffed, also you were using the ash of war when Rellana was stanced to attack. Her holding her swords at her side means "I'm going to do my big move" you also did it on Messmer in neutral, which isn't good decision making. Bosses also already have different combo branches, and chains relative to your position, and proximity. Bayle's fire ricocheting is pretty bad. Also the thing with Bayle's stumps is he takes as much damage on the wing and leg stumps as he does on the head. It's Monster Hunter coded in where you have multiple weak spots.
the leta fight you can get some of the npcs on your side by finishing their quests anisback and fraya i believe. Dane, and moore are always with leta though.
I love the DLC, but my main issue with it is that it's kind of a Chimera DLC. FromSoft intended to make two DLCs (one for Messmer and one for Miquella) but decided on combining both, and you can clearly tell which of the parts were better or worse. Everything that has to do with Messmer is so well explored, fleshed-out, and expansive. His history with the Hornsent/Omes, Marika, Land of Shadow, etc. is so well-established that it's basically it's own game. The man himself has so much build-up leading up to him and he characterized fairly well. As a character, he's my favorite of the Demigods. In contrast, a lot of the things that deal with Miquella and St. Trina are a bit shallow, low on content, and rather rushed. Miquella is a cheap twist villain that I could see a mile away while Saint Trina is delegated as a tragic love interest who is barely characterized. It would've been cool to see Miquella be a legit good guy (justified ends AND means) to fight against, challenging our Tarnished Character in both skill and morals. It would've added a lot of spice in the Elden Ring boss roster considering who we fight a majority of the time are pure evil villains, morally grey antagonists, or tragic characters. I wish that we more got of Saint Trina as well, including her Slumber Party faction. It would've been intriguing to learn more about their beliefs and philosophies beyond escapism and such. Instead, we got a boring linear cave, a silly joke of a boss somehow worthy of a Rememberance, and an obtuse questline that barely gives Saint Trina character. Also, don't get me started with Radahn and Mogh. I won't talk about Radahn, but it would've been cool to have learned about Mogh and what he was actually like pre-Miquellestation/mind-control. However, I do love our band of Miquella followers. Our alliance and eventual falling out is legitimately compelling and it far surpasses the cast of the Roundtable Hold. In short, I thought the Messmer stuff was excellent while the Miquella part was subpar by comparison.
I just wanted to point out that you can get the euporia way before beating radahn. If you get the the stairs with the first storm warrior, there's a jump off onto another set of stairs then do a bunch of platforming to get to it. I don't fully agree with everything you said. But I do understand the criticism. Its also funny to me that you seemed to like all the bosses that people have been bitching about, and didn't like all the fan favorite ones haha. Just thought that was funny. Good job on the video though. I'm always down for more constructive ways to look at this game. Personally though I feel like everyone just put a lot on this game that it never promised to be and got upset about it.
I'm not sure if you know this because you cut it off in the video but Messmer's Spear's ash has 2 followup hits that put you through his entire combo in 3 total steps There's also a piercing ash for standard weapons that mimicks his grab where he stabs you into the air on the spear and then throws fire up at you Also how the actual fuck do you have such few subs, this is very high quality content
Im sorry but you’re so wrong about Euporia. It has shit tons of range and does 60 stance damage. You can do it instead of a critical, bait a combo and do it from range, or hit trade and try to get a stance break. I just did a run with it and when used like this, Malenia and Radahn went down relatively easily. Also with the right build it’s buffed state does the most damage of any twin blade in the game and lasts forever.
This kinda sounds like "I didn't pay attention to character dialog and player messages and just rushed forward, so I didn't know where to go or what was happening" And honestly... i dont think thats the game's fault. You're supposed to take Fromsoft games slow and consider every line and every word and every environmental detail like it means something.
The abyssal woods thing is subjective, but I personally feel like it’s pretty clear based on the developer messages (which are understandable to ignore I suppose) that it’s presented as a stealth section. You’re meant to be fearful, needing to sneak by, and then withholding torrent and your ability to damage the enemies there was the most practical way of implementing a stealth section. It’s frustrating that it’s not made clear you can parry them, but they also clearly are trying to make a semi-mandatory stealth section, and if people knew you could parry, the effect would’ve been lost. Idk it’s still a little goofy though
Right - looking at the notes does make it abundantly clear that you're supposed to sneak, and I have no issue with that. Doing that on my second playthrough with Piquebones was actually a pretty good time. I wish the notes were more obvious, but hey, it's fromsoft, it's to be a bit expected.
@@kaptinskorge5728 that’s very fair! Sorry the comments were a bit critical, most of your points were excellent and so I just wanted to give some feedback on ones that I thought could be stronger. Either way, an excellent critique and you earned a subscriber!!
@@kaptinskorge5728 your arguments were presented in a calmly manner and were made in good faith. comments are going to reflect that. even though i disagree heavily on the first half of the bossfight section
I can't entirely agree about the "winterlanterns". FromSoft actually took steps in the DLC to make sure that the developer messages warning you to sneak past unkillable enemies no longer look the same as player message. The fact that it's possible to kill them with a parry is not really how you are meant to progress through the area. You are actually supposed to feel helpless and overwhelmed by something that you have no reasonable way of fighting. Rather the secret to defeating them is a "reward" for successfully sneaking past them first, as the clue to their one weakness can be found by reading a journal in the Mansion located at the end of the woods. I do, however, entirely agree with the critique in boss design, especially the part where no single element makes them too hard, but rather it's how all the various aspects come together. The fights aren't impossible, but they are exasperating. The sheer relentless aggression makes it nearly impossible for the player to disengage on their own terms, and yeah, maybe disengaging is never the "optimal" way to defeat a boss, but when just trying to learn the boss in the first place it helps to be able to step back far enough to actually catch your breath and refocus your thoughts. Not to mention how unfair it can feel when, as also mentioned, the bosses can just disengage for free whenever the feel like it. I should also like to add that not only are the bosses fast and aggressive during the fight, but they are often also equally quick to start the fight. This is a problem for any player that had been using spirit ash to mediate the difficulty of fights in the base game, because now in the DLC there's barely any opening to even call in the spirit for assistance in the first place without getting punished and put on the back foot. Outside of all that, I love pretty much EVERYTHING else about the DLC. I love the world design and exploration I love the new equipment and lore, most of all I love being able to relive that same feeling of wonder from the base game where just when I think I've found everything, I discover a whole new area as if the mapp could almost just keep going on forever. I even want to love the bosses... I just can't, not when every time I reach a boss it's like switching gears entirely and having to change up my equipment to a specific boss killing set as if I were playing two different games awkwardly stitched together. I want bosses that are cohesive to the world, if I can reach boss with a particular build, I should be able to beat that boss with the SAME build.
if you fight a boss well, you can get a stance break in every ~15 seconds of gameplay with most fights. Which is at the very least a 5 second long breather. Such mechanic is already in the game. Also you can disengage from bosses if you know what youre doing. Rellana for example idles for a while when youre far away from her. But this is not the case with some bosses. You can beat any boss with any build. This issue is not on the game. Its just the boss design conflicting with your preference. Not a build expression issue
@@glisteninggames2981: if you actually read what I was trying to say, flat out admit nothing in the DLC is "impossible". Yes, if player knows exactly what they are doing, knows all the bosses patterns and tells, the AI becomes both predictable and exploitable, but getting to that level of expertise is no simple feat. The thing is that boss design has become so much more complex than previous games, full of so many more variable length combos and positional counters, that it's become increasingly difficult to accurately read on the fly what is a real opening and what is a trap. Not to mention most bosses also have ranged attacks or gap closers that are specifically keyed to the player's flask animation to make backing off to heal even harder. All of this on top of the bosses alao being faster, leaving the player less time to react. Yes, stance breaking can be a great way to create additional openings, but it requires the player to keep up aggressive pressure on the boss or else their posture defense will just keep refreshing. Meaning it all wraps back around to the sane problem of needing to memorize a boss in the first place.
@@EmeralBookwise okay sure all fair. only 2 things i disagree with. there are only a handful of bosses that animation read healing flasks. maybe you can point out like 5 or 6, but thats kinda where it ends. and bosses being faster, giving you less breathing room, and having more complex movesets is not a bad thing. its a different design philosophy compared to other games, its just that this design decision clashes with your preference when it comes to difficulty. that doesnt inheritly make it a problem, or bad, outside of your subjective view. i dont know if youre trying to claim objectivity, but if you are, then thats not it man
Bloodborne is still king, attrition is a great way to describe what makes its combat so good. Gael is an attrition fight too. It gives you time to learn so you get a good back and forward going
BOOM! Enemy's have more health and deal less damage...been my solution since maliketh 😂 i love elden ring but they will never achieve the heights of gael on their current trajectory
ER boss fights are more demanding mechanically and allow for more skill expression. especially maliketh. thats what i personally value most in bossfights
. I love the bosses, all challenging The base game and earlier souls are to easy now so it's nice to have to struggle and learn again Most things you listed as a con I see as pros The camera is extra janky though
Okay good video but also that bayle example of not having time to do anything after his grab isn’t true - you survive the grab, and then claim you didn’t have time to do anything before his next attack - you got off two heals, and then rolled early into his fire breath. Literally had time to heal twice, and still had so much time to roll his next attack that you rolled it early. This comment sounds kinda dickish so I’m sorry, but the footage you showed blatantly contradicts the claim. I do agree that a lot of bosses have annoying punishes when trying to heal in neutral! This just isn’t one of them.
No worries - I wouldn't be a very good critic if I couldn't take it myself. Rewatching the footage, yeah, you right, and there are better examples for the point I'm making.
I think the important thing to keep in mind is that watching a fight vs actually plying the game are two entirely different headspaces. When watching a let's play or review, it's so much easier to remain emotionally detached, calm and analytical, telegraphs and openings will seem so much more obvious. None of that is the same when actually in the thick of the moment, and especially after eating a big attack, as the panic sets in and higher brain function shuts down leaving only instinct and visceral emotion.
@@EmeralBookwise I 100% agree! That’s a big reason why recording your own boss gameplay can be so helpful to learn them more efficiently. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to - in the moment- mis-time a roll, heal, get hit, and die, and then be frustrated that the game feels unfair. However, when making a critique, I think it’s important to be accurate! Even if it feels like you don’t have time to heal, I’d the example you use is one where you had more than enough time to heal twice, it’s a bad example. Not saying bayle doesn’t have some attacks that are hard to punish/heal from, just took issue with the specific example.
@@joeymayer7681: fair points, but I also don't think the average player should be expected to need external tools to record and analyze their own gameplay. So I think it's still entirely fair to review and critique a game based on those more visceral in the moment feeling, because that's how most players are also going to experience it.
@@EmeralBookwise if you’re making a detailed critique as an analysis of the functions of a combat system, accuracy is important. For example, there’s a big difference between saying something like “this attack doesn’t have a telegraph,” as opposed to “this attacks telegraph is far too subtle for the average player to accurately read it” are very different. The subjective experience is significant, but objectivity is still important when making an in depth critique. I do hear what you’re saying though!
im sorry but i beat messmer and renalla without mimictier and and no schield and i got enouf time to heal or fight back. their combo 's are longer ok but their mangebel if you learn them good.
In terms of how much fun I personally had: S - Rellana, Messmer, Midra A - Romina, Gaius, Metyr, Radahn B - Divine Beast, Scadutree, Bayle C - Putrescent Knight F - Leda & co. gross.
@@kaptinskorge5728 I’ve really not count Leda as a boss but ok Interesting list Some people put Midra on A tier cause is too simple, what your thoughts on that
@@best_mate456 I think that's fair. I did find him simple but also engaging, and he's a good example of when all these little things are kept in check.
your tangent abt the winter lanterns was kinda infuriating 😭 this is like complaining that the snake from sekiro doesn’t take any damage… most obvious stealth section ever fam. the parrying is nothing more than a secret alternative approach another thing, your bayle criticisms clearly show me that you don’t rlly get the fight, or maybe it’s really not for you, I just didn’t experience anything you were mentioning 😭 good video despite some criticism I disagreed with
Uhmm never have there been signposts or things in from soft games that TELL you where to go. As soon as that happens, it's not a proper dark souls/soulslike game.
I've always wondered why you tubers say it's especially important to be critical of great things lol. Yall are so self important. Just chill the f out.
Never have I ever heard someone cry this hard about being to bad to doge boo hooo my boy wants bosses to slow down so that he can heal at this point play assassin creed🥺
Man, I love the SotE bosses to the point where I'm learning to hitless them, and comments like this are terrible. Throw suggestions for how to deal with them more effectively, instead of a nothing burger like this.
As for the Aging Untouchable in the Abyssal Woods, there is a torn diary page in the manor that says ""I touched him, but only once. When he thrust his staff in my face, I brushed it aside. It was then that I touched him" This suppose to suggest you should parry them, but it is easy to miss and not clear at all
Thank you! I was sure I'd seen something, but I couldn't find it.
I was too busy just thinking about how freaky the message sounds out of context 😭😭
@@szalyn8849 🤣
19:15 literally Pontiff from DS3 is the definition of what you talked about here.
About the Aging Untouchables: I believe the developers wanted it to be a stealth mission, which is why they hid a hint in a diary entry in Midra's Manse. The parry mechanic as a means for dealing with the Aging Untouchables is deliberately obscured because they wanted to encourage stealth while adding a hidden cheat for repeat players while also giving new players the option of consulting a guide.
I'm not saying I even enjoy it, but i do appreciate it.
That’s what I’m saying
That is quite literally and quite obviously what was intended. The abyssal woods are also literally shaped like a maze.
Dudeeee. Your video got thrown into my autoplay while I was leveling up my next char for the DLC and I immediately thought: "Huh, haven't heard that voice before. Probably another really good huge channel talking about Elden ring." And then I tab out of the game at the end and see you only have 57 subs? If your this good, this early on your way you have a bright future ahead! Really solid analysis and especially the final statement hit hard and true. keep it coming!
ER bosses do have less downtime between their attacks than in old souls games, but they give you so many more opportunities to hit them WHILE they attack. You were very close to this revelation when you spoke about jumping in combat
Jumping allows you to avoid attacks while attacking at the same time, by doing a jumping attack. The recovery frames of a jump attack also allow you to duck under a boss's followup attack. At least 8 of Rellana's attacks can be jumped over, and therefore you can punish her way way more often when you do
Strafing and spacing attacks also gives you more punish windows, since you dont have to wait for the roll recovery and get a little hit in. Or you can strafe a combo finisher to have more time for a heavier punish. This also allows you to get your ash of war off
Same goes for delayed attacks, you have time to hit the boss during the animation before you roll
All of these things lead to more stance breaks, which is a cool breather for those who need it.
You also usually get 3 openings with a stance break. Hit a boss while stance broken, then riposte before the boss wakes up, and then you can hit them again during their stagger recovery
So yes, SOTET bosses are a lot less turn based. And im all here for it
Edit: you should really jump more against dancing lion specifically. The breath and the frost AOE'S are much easier to dodge if you jump.
Putrescent Knight is also much easier to hit if you jump over his swings and come down with a jumping attack
This. I hated the putrescent knight till I found some jump attacks and then he was fun
I agree. You have to identify windows to heal and attack unless you have a very tanky or powerful ranged build, then it becomes much more turn based. I think a lot of people are picking playstyles that don't match their preference or (frankly) skill level.
@@bobdobbz9334 THey want to play like they used to play the older games and don't understand or erefuse to accept that whatever souls game skills they accrued over the years isn't enough. They have to be patient and learn the bosses for that playstyle to work. And it absolutely still does. I'm a total scrub player and am doing a R1, blessing 0 now.
@@GD-nu4iz
I was a mage my first playthrough of Demon's Souls on PS3. Day one, actually. I'm as OG as it gets. And different playstyles used to be celebrated. Now anyone who uses magic or summons is 'cheesing'. Like wtf? Since when?
@bobdobbz9334 thats silly. All playstyles are valid.
What isn't valid is complaining the bosses aren't fair when you refuse to use the tools the devs give you to make thwm easier, or spend the time to learn the kits.
I went through the DLC blind my first playthrough. I feel you on not knowing where to go.
But for me, that's half the fun of that first playthrough.
I figured out most of the secrets of the DLC on my own by reading everything and scouring every corner.
Enjoyed the vid.
DUDE it is a crime you only have 42 subs, I hope this video blows up
Keep up the good work, you’d think a guy like u would have a lot more subs, keep it up n you’ll defo get there bro
Everything and I mean everything could've been so good. The biggest letdown for me was the final section and the final boss, like you said, no matter how much new movesets and flair they could give to Radahn, he simply was and will never really be.. a final boss material.
For me, the best part of the DLC were really just the Shadow Keep and the Jagged peak. Hell, every time i replay the dlc, I just imagine Bayle and Messmer as the final two bosses, enir ilim is just a backdrop and an optional boss.
While I agree with the general idea that the DLC has taken the collective discovery cryptic secrets thing a bit too far, I think you chose the worst possible example with the winter lantern knock-offs. That's actually the ONE aspect of the DLC that the developers really overcommunicated on. The area before each encounter is completely covered in developer messages (which unlike the Souls games, dev messages have a unique appearance to differentiate from player messages) that repeatedly hammer home the point that the Untouchables are unkillable enemies that must be avoided with stealth. Like, the messages repeat in later areas before every encounter. The areas you find them in are full of bushes you can hide in (along with noisemaker traps which aren't a big surprise as similar traps appeared as early as Limgrave). The fact that you can parry them to death is meant to be a secret, only hinted at in a note you find at the very end before Midra. You are meant to avoid the enemy, it's a stealth gimmick section that is very heavily signposted.
I agree that Miquella's great rune breaking and other NPC questlines are far too cryptic, but I think you hurt your own point by focusing on one gimmick area that's the only example I can think of in the whole game where the developer tells the player what to do directly rather than hide it in a riddle like those gesture-locked secrets.
Thank you for the Bayle fight analysis, if nothing else, those long recoveries from some if his hits were sooooooo frustrating and stupid.
For all those complaining I got a simple question. What game can you name with as much content as just the dlc of Elden Ring can you get for $40?
Hollow Knight with all the free dlcs for 15 dollars
This. Exactly my thoughts. DLC is great, bosses are difficult but not fun. I think that FromSoft were just so excited and focused on making hard bosses, that they just forgot to make them fun. I remember Ludwig and Orphan of Kos, that were probably most hard bosses I fought in video game. But they never were frustrating or disappointing. They were just hard. And fun to fight against. I never summoned an npc to fight Ludwig cause I didn’t want to make that fight easier and less challenging. And here, I don’t want to fight almost any of the dlc bosses and using all possible means, summons, items to make the fight as short as possible just because it’s not fun. Except for a couple of bosses. And as someone said in a different video, when you beat a well designed boss you feel joy, not a relief.
i did the exact same thing with the “a rune has been broken” message
The Euporia got buffed, also you were using the ash of war when Rellana was stanced to attack. Her holding her swords at her side means "I'm going to do my big move" you also did it on Messmer in neutral, which isn't good decision making.
Bosses also already have different combo branches, and chains relative to your position, and proximity.
Bayle's fire ricocheting is pretty bad. Also the thing with Bayle's stumps is he takes as much damage on the wing and leg stumps as he does on the head. It's Monster Hunter coded in where you have multiple weak spots.
the leta fight you can get some of the npcs on your side by finishing their quests anisback and fraya i believe. Dane, and moore are always with leta though.
This should have way more views, its a great video.
Thank you!
I love the DLC, but my main issue with it is that it's kind of a Chimera DLC.
FromSoft intended to make two DLCs (one for Messmer and one for Miquella) but decided on combining both, and you can clearly tell which of the parts were better or worse.
Everything that has to do with Messmer is so well explored, fleshed-out, and expansive.
His history with the Hornsent/Omes, Marika, Land of Shadow, etc. is so well-established that it's basically it's own game.
The man himself has so much build-up leading up to him and he characterized fairly well.
As a character, he's my favorite of the Demigods.
In contrast, a lot of the things that deal with Miquella and St. Trina are a bit shallow, low on content, and rather rushed.
Miquella is a cheap twist villain that I could see a mile away while Saint Trina is delegated as a tragic love interest who is barely characterized.
It would've been cool to see Miquella be a legit good guy (justified ends AND means) to fight against, challenging our Tarnished Character in both skill and morals. It would've added a lot of spice in the Elden Ring boss roster considering who we fight a majority of the time are pure evil villains, morally grey antagonists, or tragic characters.
I wish that we more got of Saint Trina as well, including her Slumber Party faction. It would've been intriguing to learn more about their beliefs and philosophies beyond escapism and such. Instead, we got a boring linear cave, a silly joke of a boss somehow worthy of a Rememberance, and an obtuse questline that barely gives Saint Trina character.
Also, don't get me started with Radahn and Mogh.
I won't talk about Radahn, but it would've been cool to have learned about Mogh and what he was actually like pre-Miquellestation/mind-control.
However, I do love our band of Miquella followers. Our alliance and eventual falling out is legitimately compelling and it far surpasses the cast of the Roundtable Hold.
In short, I thought the Messmer stuff was excellent while the Miquella part was subpar by comparison.
I disagree with you on St Trina, personally i believe she was done relatively well. But yes miquella was def lackluster and messmer is awesome
I just wanted to point out that you can get the euporia way before beating radahn. If you get the the stairs with the first storm warrior, there's a jump off onto another set of stairs then do a bunch of platforming to get to it.
I don't fully agree with everything you said. But I do understand the criticism. Its also funny to me that you seemed to like all the bosses that people have been bitching about, and didn't like all the fan favorite ones haha. Just thought that was funny. Good job on the video though. I'm always down for more constructive ways to look at this game. Personally though I feel like everyone just put a lot on this game that it never promised to be and got upset about it.
I've actually done my best to stay away from discussion so I could formulate my unbiased thoughts - what are the community opinions?
I'm not sure if you know this because you cut it off in the video but Messmer's Spear's ash has 2 followup hits that put you through his entire combo in 3 total steps
There's also a piercing ash for standard weapons that mimicks his grab where he stabs you into the air on the spear and then throws fire up at you
Also how the actual fuck do you have such few subs, this is very high quality content
sick shirt, good job girlfriend
Im sorry but you’re so wrong about Euporia. It has shit tons of range and does 60 stance damage. You can do it instead of a critical, bait a combo and do it from range, or hit trade and try to get a stance break. I just did a run with it and when used like this, Malenia and Radahn went down relatively easily. Also with the right build it’s buffed state does the most damage of any twin blade in the game and lasts forever.
The video was made before the buff
You don't have to kill the winter lanterns.
Great video, although the boss section was a little hard for me to get through ngl 😅
This kinda sounds like "I didn't pay attention to character dialog and player messages and just rushed forward, so I didn't know where to go or what was happening"
And honestly... i dont think thats the game's fault. You're supposed to take Fromsoft games slow and consider every line and every word and every environmental detail like it means something.
The abyssal woods thing is subjective, but I personally feel like it’s pretty clear based on the developer messages (which are understandable to ignore I suppose) that it’s presented as a stealth section. You’re meant to be fearful, needing to sneak by, and then withholding torrent and your ability to damage the enemies there was the most practical way of implementing a stealth section. It’s frustrating that it’s not made clear you can parry them, but they also clearly are trying to make a semi-mandatory stealth section, and if people knew you could parry, the effect would’ve been lost. Idk it’s still a little goofy though
Right - looking at the notes does make it abundantly clear that you're supposed to sneak, and I have no issue with that. Doing that on my second playthrough with Piquebones was actually a pretty good time. I wish the notes were more obvious, but hey, it's fromsoft, it's to be a bit expected.
@@kaptinskorge5728 that’s very fair! Sorry the comments were a bit critical, most of your points were excellent and so I just wanted to give some feedback on ones that I thought could be stronger. Either way, an excellent critique and you earned a subscriber!!
@@joeymayer7681 Overall, people have been very kind and thoughtful - especially yourself. I'm glad you liked the video!
@@kaptinskorge5728 your arguments were presented in a calmly manner and were made in good faith. comments are going to reflect that. even though i disagree heavily on the first half of the bossfight section
@@kaptinskorge5728 people will be kind when you present your arguments well. Unlike other critiques like feeble king’s.
I can't entirely agree about the "winterlanterns". FromSoft actually took steps in the DLC to make sure that the developer messages warning you to sneak past unkillable enemies no longer look the same as player message. The fact that it's possible to kill them with a parry is not really how you are meant to progress through the area. You are actually supposed to feel helpless and overwhelmed by something that you have no reasonable way of fighting. Rather the secret to defeating them is a "reward" for successfully sneaking past them first, as the clue to their one weakness can be found by reading a journal in the Mansion located at the end of the woods.
I do, however, entirely agree with the critique in boss design, especially the part where no single element makes them too hard, but rather it's how all the various aspects come together. The fights aren't impossible, but they are exasperating. The sheer relentless aggression makes it nearly impossible for the player to disengage on their own terms, and yeah, maybe disengaging is never the "optimal" way to defeat a boss, but when just trying to learn the boss in the first place it helps to be able to step back far enough to actually catch your breath and refocus your thoughts. Not to mention how unfair it can feel when, as also mentioned, the bosses can just disengage for free whenever the feel like it.
I should also like to add that not only are the bosses fast and aggressive during the fight, but they are often also equally quick to start the fight. This is a problem for any player that had been using spirit ash to mediate the difficulty of fights in the base game, because now in the DLC there's barely any opening to even call in the spirit for assistance in the first place without getting punished and put on the back foot.
Outside of all that, I love pretty much EVERYTHING else about the DLC. I love the world design and exploration I love the new equipment and lore, most of all I love being able to relive that same feeling of wonder from the base game where just when I think I've found everything, I discover a whole new area as if the mapp could almost just keep going on forever. I even want to love the bosses... I just can't, not when every time I reach a boss it's like switching gears entirely and having to change up my equipment to a specific boss killing set as if I were playing two different games awkwardly stitched together. I want bosses that are cohesive to the world, if I can reach boss with a particular build, I should be able to beat that boss with the SAME build.
if you fight a boss well, you can get a stance break in every ~15 seconds of gameplay with most fights. Which is at the very least a 5 second long breather. Such mechanic is already in the game. Also you can disengage from bosses if you know what youre doing. Rellana for example idles for a while when youre far away from her. But this is not the case with some bosses. You can beat any boss with any build. This issue is not on the game. Its just the boss design conflicting with your preference. Not a build expression issue
@@glisteninggames2981: if you actually read what I was trying to say, flat out admit nothing in the DLC is "impossible". Yes, if player knows exactly what they are doing, knows all the bosses patterns and tells, the AI becomes both predictable and exploitable, but getting to that level of expertise is no simple feat.
The thing is that boss design has become so much more complex than previous games, full of so many more variable length combos and positional counters, that it's become increasingly difficult to accurately read on the fly what is a real opening and what is a trap. Not to mention most bosses also have ranged attacks or gap closers that are specifically keyed to the player's flask animation to make backing off to heal even harder. All of this on top of the bosses alao being faster, leaving the player less time to react.
Yes, stance breaking can be a great way to create additional openings, but it requires the player to keep up aggressive pressure on the boss or else their posture defense will just keep refreshing. Meaning it all wraps back around to the sane problem of needing to memorize a boss in the first place.
@@EmeralBookwise okay sure all fair. only 2 things i disagree with. there are only a handful of bosses that animation read healing flasks. maybe you can point out like 5 or 6, but thats kinda where it ends. and bosses being faster, giving you less breathing room, and having more complex movesets is not a bad thing. its a different design philosophy compared to other games, its just that this design decision clashes with your preference when it comes to difficulty. that doesnt inheritly make it a problem, or bad, outside of your subjective view. i dont know if youre trying to claim objectivity, but if you are, then thats not it man
Bloodborne is still king, attrition is a great way to describe what makes its combat so good. Gael is an attrition fight too. It gives you time to learn so you get a good back and forward going
BOOM! Enemy's have more health and deal less damage...been my solution since maliketh 😂 i love elden ring but they will never achieve the heights of gael on their current trajectory
ER boss fights are more demanding mechanically and allow for more skill expression. especially maliketh. thats what i personally value most in bossfights
I thought Bayles stump took extra posture damage. Either way defo one of my fav fights in the game, although I still prefer midir as a dragon boss
Woah this video is way to good for 58 views 😂
. I love the bosses, all challenging
The base game and earlier souls are to easy now so it's nice to have to struggle and learn again
Most things you listed as a con I see as pros
The camera is extra janky though
Okay good video but also that bayle example of not having time to do anything after his grab isn’t true - you survive the grab, and then claim you didn’t have time to do anything before his next attack - you got off two heals, and then rolled early into his fire breath. Literally had time to heal twice, and still had so much time to roll his next attack that you rolled it early. This comment sounds kinda dickish so I’m sorry, but the footage you showed blatantly contradicts the claim. I do agree that a lot of bosses have annoying punishes when trying to heal in neutral! This just isn’t one of them.
No worries - I wouldn't be a very good critic if I couldn't take it myself. Rewatching the footage, yeah, you right, and there are better examples for the point I'm making.
I think the important thing to keep in mind is that watching a fight vs actually plying the game are two entirely different headspaces. When watching a let's play or review, it's so much easier to remain emotionally detached, calm and analytical, telegraphs and openings will seem so much more obvious. None of that is the same when actually in the thick of the moment, and especially after eating a big attack, as the panic sets in and higher brain function shuts down leaving only instinct and visceral emotion.
@@EmeralBookwise I 100% agree! That’s a big reason why recording your own boss gameplay can be so helpful to learn them more efficiently. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to - in the moment- mis-time a roll, heal, get hit, and die, and then be frustrated that the game feels unfair. However, when making a critique, I think it’s important to be accurate! Even if it feels like you don’t have time to heal, I’d the example you use is one where you had more than enough time to heal twice, it’s a bad example. Not saying bayle doesn’t have some attacks that are hard to punish/heal from, just took issue with the specific example.
@@joeymayer7681: fair points, but I also don't think the average player should be expected to need external tools to record and analyze their own gameplay. So I think it's still entirely fair to review and critique a game based on those more visceral in the moment feeling, because that's how most players are also going to experience it.
@@EmeralBookwise if you’re making a detailed critique as an analysis of the functions of a combat system, accuracy is important. For example, there’s a big difference between saying something like “this attack doesn’t have a telegraph,” as opposed to “this attacks telegraph is far too subtle for the average player to accurately read it” are very different. The subjective experience is significant, but objectivity is still important when making an in depth critique. I do hear what you’re saying though!
im sorry but i beat messmer and renalla without mimictier and and no schield and i got enouf time to heal or fight back. their combo 's are longer ok but their mangebel if you learn them good.
So what’s your boss ranking?
In terms of how much fun I personally had:
S - Rellana, Messmer, Midra
A - Romina, Gaius, Metyr, Radahn
B - Divine Beast, Scadutree, Bayle
C - Putrescent Knight
F - Leda & co. gross.
@@kaptinskorge5728 I’ve really not count Leda as a boss but ok
Interesting list
Some people put Midra on A tier cause is too simple, what your thoughts on that
@@best_mate456 I think that's fair. I did find him simple but also engaging, and he's a good example of when all these little things are kept in check.
your tangent abt the winter lanterns was kinda infuriating 😭 this is like complaining that the snake from sekiro doesn’t take any damage… most obvious stealth section ever fam. the parrying is nothing more than a secret alternative approach
another thing, your bayle criticisms clearly show me that you don’t rlly get the fight, or maybe it’s really not for you, I just didn’t experience anything you were mentioning 😭 good video despite some criticism I disagreed with
LOL YOU GOT STUCK ON ALYSSAL WOODS
Uhmm never have there been signposts or things in from soft games that TELL you where to go. As soon as that happens, it's not a proper dark souls/soulslike game.
I've always wondered why you tubers say it's especially important to be critical of great things lol. Yall are so self important. Just chill the f out.
Garbage empty boring copy-pasted open world just like the base game. Pvp is deeply flawed and the co-op is boring and a waste of time.
Never have I ever heard someone cry this hard about being to bad to doge boo hooo my boy wants bosses to slow down so that he can heal at this point play assassin creed🥺
@@huunes2150 that wasnt the point of what hes saying. its perfectly valid if he doesnt like very aggressive bosses
Man, I love the SotE bosses to the point where I'm learning to hitless them, and comments like this are terrible. Throw suggestions for how to deal with them more effectively, instead of a nothing burger like this.