And so many people (especially newcomers to the series via ER) hate that. With a passion. The dwindling in the base, at least on PC, is probably because of Seamless Co-Op more than anything. Casual MMO lovers just want that vibe.
There’s nothing better than seeing the “you’ve been invaded by x” message at the bottom of the screen in a souls game. Man it gets my blood pumping. Same goes for when I invade when I’m desperate or just want to. Too bad Elden Ring PVP is hostile to those who use non meta builds and weapons like me. Great video
I really wish they would have preserved solo invasions, at least in legacy dungeons. I miss not needing to deliberately opt-in to get invaded with co-op or TT. It just felt more natural and more unnerving. I miss my anxiety-ridden game!
its what made dark souls feel special while playing. nothing ever came close besides one thing. when i was a kid me and a couple friends did home invasions. sounds horrible but we never stole anything or destroyed stuff, we were just in for the kick. the fun. thats how invasions feel to me
I'd love to have had a few covenants that would not post that msg, so it would be easier to surprise the host and make assanation a viable option for reds
My list of hate: Loading times, loading screens, invasion queues, waiting, there's so much empty time before you get the invasion that can last anywhere from few seconds to tens of minutes. This is why doing invasions feels like a chill activity - put on some music, wait for invasions. around 50% of the time spent on a bad day is at a grace throwing attacks at the air, backstepping around. Stupid spawn points (Castle sol spawns OUTSIDE?? the castle??, Mount Gelmir.) and useless invasions zones. Big or small empty areas before a fogwall shouldn't be invasion area, because, you get instantly, fogwalled... (Radagon hallway, Radahn beach, Morgott, Godfrey). + Spawning when the host is already in the boss, invading into stone platform, invading into dragonlords arena (bugs like that) Overleveled phantoms. Fix the scaling, OR make systems of the host being invadable by lvl 200 invaders as well then, or buff the invader to mirror the overleveled phantom - scale every phantom to average of everyones level in the world. Too big brain for fromsofware, never going to happen. I hate blue phantoms - I hate what they did to blue phantoms, they feel so useless and lacklustre in Elden Ring. I want blue phantoms to be this cool covenant of actually fair saviors of the innocent. Now they simply are a ganker automatically. Missed potential everywhere, covenants, player limits, rewards. Balance of damage is all over the place... compared to ds3 from my experience. Ranged attacks do too much damage in ER. They shouldn't do more than melee generally speaking, ever. The wider the attack, more range it has, the more the damage should be toned down. (Moonveil, Blasphemous blade, spells) Too many meme anime weapons (mostly their ashes. ash of war & spell spam). There were only a few of these in past games. In ds3, there was the Dragonslayer greataxe, Nameless King lightning spear thing etc. Now, in L2den Ring they give everyone the nuke the screen win-button. Ashes of war should be these supplements for the moveset, and almost equal to the normal attacks of the weapon in efficiency (like in ds3). I hate those mods that have created custom katana attacks with 5 quick moonveil anime slashes in 1 second with lightning effects around the character for miles, like I don't want fromsoftware to see that and get any ideas for the direction they would take their new weapons, it disgusts me. The direction they are going with elden ring doesn't look good for their future games, if they keep this up, the fundamentals of their game are going to break at some point. I remember these games were about some knight crawling in tight corridors, spacing, dodging, with a straight sword, positioning so that they wouldn't bounce their sword against the wall, kicking, mixing up the few moves available against enemies, carefully timed, thoughtful puzzle. Simpler, more believable. More of that please.
Completely agree. I want my dungeon crawler back, dammit! You'd think if they're gonna trade all the darkness and claustrophobia that they'd at least substitute it with a more intuitive and useful system, but instead we just have a ton of old mechanics grafted onto this huge game with next to no consideration for how they play. The fact that they let as much damage go through ashes and spells is so funny, because I'm someone who really prefers low fantasy where magic is just a tool in your arsenal, rather than the arsenal itself. I get why they went more high fantasy for what Elden Ring is trying to accomplish but I miss it being more locked in. I want the struggle to feel grounded and real. Maybe next time.
this might be a little lengthy so i apologize in advance. Elden Ring was my first souls game. i was always interested in playing the others but got discouraged by the difficulty. when ER dropped, i gave it a shot and i fell in love with it. this was only the PvE aspect. after about 1000+ hours, i finally decided to try invasions and there was a serious learning curve in the beginning. another 100+ hours of invasions, i fell in love all over again. i hope they continue to expand and add more to invasions/PvP because that is what's keeping me on the game longer.
I had a similar experience but I'm in the process of learning to get better at pvp. At the very beginning I disliked invasion because I played coop to help others beat bosses and gain runes. But the more it happened, the more I was looking forward to an exciting fight with the invader. What I hope for with the DLC is a mechanic for invasions similar to hunters: when the item is active, you may get randomly matched to coop with an invader who's facing a team of 3 alone.
I started invading in Elden Ring and hoh boy there is some regrets to it. Although I'm glad that I did it, learning in this environment is extremely hard but it certainly is possible. I never really appreciated PvP before I started invading, as I just didn't see the fun in getting curb stomped by the issues other invaders were already bringing up but there was one thing that helped Not giving a shit about dying and just having fun. Not immediately charging and fighting, but saying hi to hosts and their phantoms, or give them some gifts. I fell in love with what arguably *should be* the spirit of invasions. It's not necessarily about winning, even though it is nice.. it's about the LOVE for the same game and how they work. Since I started taking this approach I've had many fun moments, and most things that "top tier" (read; tryhards) complain about don't bother me. I had hosts that jumped off a cliff with me, ones that teabagged their phantoms after I bribed them with 20 Lord Runes to let me fight them solo. Hosts that partake in the joy of having a random stranger do silly stuff in your lobby God I love invading
It's such a fun mechanic that let's you do so much. The ability to decide what's fun for you is something I wish more games would implement. I love the way people get into their own styles and champion their own causes. It makes for such a rich community and experience. Hopefully the DLC and future titles will give us more opportunities and ways to invade and participate in multiplayer.
Hard agree, I wish for more opportunities and ways to invade. My biggest one is still covenants in the DLC, as unlikely as they are to be in there. Invasions make the experience of a From Software game so much better
As far as bridging/explaining the gap between the two sides goes, as you’ve put it, I’d say you’ve succeeded. I don’t invade often, but I’ve still had a fun experience doing it. What I find appealing about invading is that it’s a way of testing a core belief of mine about soulslikes-you can take any loadout, any choice of weapon/s, and manage to win any fight thrown your way. You have a dagger and your opponent is a guy with a spear? You can beat him if you play right. You dual wielding spiked door shields? You can beat anyone with enough tenacity. I absolutely love doing what other invaders would call bashing my head into a wall-I love trying to brute force wins. Among my first, idk, fifteen invasions, two of them ended up in that kind of way, where it felt like I actually wrenched victory out of my opponent’s hands. It’s because those memorable wins were when I was very new to PvP, that I think invasions are for everyone. That nobody is too low-skill to be capable of winning.
I love trying to win playing "my way" because I'm generally a little meta-averse. I like to do things however I think it'd be cool to do but that's not always the best. But these games, generally speaking, let you play however you want and, with enough skill, come out victorious. It's a glorious thing, indeed.
One aspect no one seems to mention are the FRIENDLY reds, I personally enjoy invading with absolutely stupid builds and trying to be friendly with those I invade. Sometimes they get the hint and I’m able to help them in some way, all before having a fun dual, other times they don’t get the idea and throw poop pots at my dead corpse. Either way, being a friendly red is so much fun and it is hysterical seeing a host slowly walking up to a gift on the ground all before they get nuked by some enemy they couldn’t see.
This. This is why I love invasions. Sure, every invasions usually ends in a fight, but it doesn't have to START with immediate ganking and backstabbing. I think one of my favorite invasions was at the start of Mohg palace, and I ended up dropping warming stones and using torches to help the duo through the crypt/cave/thingy. And whenever another invader showed up? I'd hold them off while the duo kept their focus on the pve combat, and then we'd finish them off together. Probably the best invasion I've ever had.
Invasions and PvP are the only reason that I have over 1300 hours in ER. If it weren’t for the multiplayer I would have dropped the game after 200 hours at most. It really is crazy to think about how much value I’ve gotten out of a $70 game that I paid for once. Making new builds is infinitely more engaging when you are able to test their meddle in PvP, it’s the gift that keeps on giving. FromSoft needs to make an entire new game devoted to maximizing the multiplayer elements of the souls games to their potential. I really hope that they recognize the value of what they inadvertently created and give it the chance it deserves.
Ya know what's crazy? This game was/is $60. Not even on the new standard yet! And I really, really want them to revisit the cut content idea they had for a battle royale-type mode in Dark Souls 3 where you could just fight forever. I want infinite battles. I want infinite game. I'd pay $100 easy.
I for the life of me cannot recall the first time I ever invaded someone in Ds3, but I can recall the first time I was on the receiving end: It was the Crucifixion Woods and I was invaded by an NPC invader, who i mistook for a player. I remember feeling so aggravated about how I was loosing to the same "no-lifer" for 15-20 mins straight, which is pretty funny in hindsight. I can't remember how my first invasions went (likely in my attempts to complete the Rosaria Finger Questline), but I vividly remember among my earlier invasions as a Watchdog of Faaron. In being summoned in from the Ithryll, I was met with a fightclub for the first time. There were reds, blues, a host, and I believe another watchdog. I remember seeing a few players siting while 2 others where fighting. Thankfully I was smart enough to look around and watch what was happening before interrupting. When the fight was over, and the host points to me and another player (albeit, a few times, trying to coax me to fight), I swiftly got my butt kicked, and the victor bowed as I faded. This simple act of sportsmanship left a lasting impression on me, and it's what I try to give to other players when I invade, though the Host's may not be as lenient. It's just small moments like this that make me love invading and [being] invaded. I truly hope that those who haven't tried it give it a fair shake, or at least duel with friends if practice is a subject of concern
There's something so unique about invasions and I hate that people get dismissive of them without even trying them for themselves. There's so much more game out there if they'd just give it a shot.
@@emotionaljonxvx it's a real shame, because I was vaguely aware of the invasion mechanic at first, and then all of a sudden it became the sole reason I even boot up the soulsgame to begin with. IT's because of the Souls multiplayer that PVP multiplayer became something I genuinely care about-- because "So long as there's two people put in the same room, someone is bound to ask 'who's stronger?'"
My experience with ER has been unlike anything I’ve ever experienced in gaming. I played a couple months after it came out with some friends. We fought tree sentinel then ran all the way to castle Morne. After this I didn’t play again. Idek why it didn’t catch my eye the first time I played. Picked it back up about 8 months ago and haven’t put it down since. I did go back and play all the fromsoft titles I could just so I could get that experience. For PvP/invasions I’ll never forget the time I was convinced by an invader to get into PvP. They were doing back steps had crazy movement and was hitting me with things I didn’t know was possible with a sword. To make it even better he killed me by using quick step then got a back stab on me. Since then I haven’t turned back and have tried my hardest damn near every day to get to that level of invading redman was at. On another note im on Xbox and it seems to be a more casual/less-lively than pc/ps. Sometimes I wish I had those systems for a more tight community. I’ll stop yapping. Thanks for reading. Stay strong strugglers🫡
@@Crit-Multiplier THEN ADD FUCKING CLANS OR SMTH PLEASE 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏 Hold up thats kinda cool concept, "everything and everyone is fucked up, so ill do it myself"
Yeah, that's pretty much guaranteed. It's okay, though. If nothing else, people can use the video to help them whenever they get into it with people who hate invasions.
Literally I make this point all the time on my own channel , a neck beard in his moms basement did it before multi million dollar fromsoft 💀 imagine being out done at your own job by Dorito fingers
I enjoy invasions but I can't blame anyone for hating it. The reason why is very simple. It is the dynamic of power. Invaders tend to be very good at the game and those being invaded are not. And so it becomes predatory in nature. A lot of invaders just want fodder. PvPers tend to have invested more time into the game when a lot of casuals one-and-done these games. So when you get an invader like ChaseTheBro its like "yeah no shit I lost". No, you didnt put up a fight and no you didnt stand a chance. Oh boy, cant wait to do that again! PvPers also have YEARS of experience with these games -some since Demon Souls. And even if you've beaten the game several times your PvE skills really don't translate to PvP. It's a totally different beast. And it takes a lot of time an commitment to "git gud" at PvP. A lot of getting your shit kicked in. BUUUUUT that's when invasions get fun. Because now you DO stand a chance. And it's not a one-way fight. The biggest problem with invasions is you can't skill-based match.
I've made so many great memories while invading. Many of them take place just in Limgrave. There's everything from invading a weaponless host trading prawn for golden centipedes with all blues and reds coming by in his world to getting killed by PvE in stormveil while I picked up a gift from a coop player. But my favourite story was one time when I invaded three players around one of the cliff areas with gravestones on the side. All of them started taking their clothes off and punching me, so naturally I did the same. We started having a drawn out brawl for around 15 minutes, where we even started getting better using backstabs, kicks and pretty much everything else from the limited barefist moveset. But despite landing many backstabs, fully charged R2s and doing good dps for being in a 1v3, I was gradually losing. So I started going towards the cliffside with the obvious intention of bringing them all to a swift end. And so we started ineffectively trying to push each other off. After brawling for some more, I managed to get one of them to fall onto one of the sideways gravestones where he was stuck. And he had to watch me fighting his buddies, who were now much more careful. Because of that I jumped on the gravestone myself to finish him off and heighten the stakes, but I had to flee further down the gravestones, since the others followed me immediately. On the next gravestone I managed to make one fall to his death and then found myself in a situation where the last two camped out the edge of the next gravestone. Since I had gone so far and clearly was no coward, I jumped over and was almost pushed off. In the next 10 seconds I kicked the second phantom off and the host made me fall to my own death right after. I didn't win, but I'm proud to say I could participate in this magnificent competition.
What I love about invading in every one of these games is creating a unique character and kicking ass with it! It’s so fun, and it’s so great to fight people in the beautiful locations all over ER
As always, great video. I’ve also thought about how this could be the last invasion game. Even if it’s not it’s at least 4 years. It’s sad. The trend invasions has been going on really since the start has always been down or away from us. Honestly the only thing that really gave me hope was lords of the fallen. Not because it was amazing on the whole but because the invasion systems were truly good. You can invade anyone, anywhere, anytime. No level or weapon matchmaking. There is no traversing fog walls once an invader is there, they are there till dead. It’s sad to think, but the future for invaders may not be From.
I wish I could get into Soulslikes but they always lack some essential element that makes it feel too different. I haven't tried the new Lords of the Fallen but maybe I should give it a shot. I think the game is really ugly and it doesn't seem like it has a lot in the way of compelling worldbuilding but if invasions dry up in From games I may have no other choice.
@@James_Rustled I just started putting all my energy into RUclips and TTRPGs where I can customize my experience. It's gonna be a long wait till the next game and who knows if it'll be any better.
Invasions are my favorite gameplay system, and the fact that every time I go in it could be anything from an impossible boss fight against laser beam jesus and his goons to an honor duel on top of a ruined church is downright magical. Thanks for helping people remember to be positive about invasions. The problems are real, but I’ve still put in 1000 hours of mostly bad red man has good times.
I get caught up in my own frustrations and honestly, these videos are a way for me to snap myself out of a rut. Elden Ring makes me quite mad quite often but at the end of the day, I just wanna invade. Writing it all down helps to put it in perspective and think of the good.
Yeah, it'd be great if you could get invaded while having a great rune active. But I guess that would gate invasions till post Godrick and I'd miss Stormveil invasions.
@@emotionaljonxvx You can use a rune arc without a great rune equipped for a Max HP buff, I think they'd just need to make rune arcs a bit more available in the early game for this style of invasion.
@@_BBAGG_ That's a fair point. I never even think to use rune arcs without a great rune just because I never have any at that stage of the game. Funny how scarce and obscure they can be.
From day one of release I have invaded, while my friends where busy reading how to create builds fast and basically spoiling the game for themselves. I was covering myself in the blood of the new born. My level 15 character named "friendly stranger" invaded on cooldown for day's/week's on end. Level 15 +3 weapons she can only used weapons enquired naturally in game. she made it all the way to Commander Niall and her story progression stopped maybe one day she will beat him. These day's she dresses as mushroom hiding waiting to pounce. We waited a long time from DS3 to ER and it was worth it for those few months of unrelenting carnage. Do not be sad a day will come again when you can baith morning to night in the blood of your friends.
on PC is mostly issue with connection i dunno what the pveers do with their internet or perhaps messing with software to throttle their connections to avoid invaders from invading them. sometime i manages to connect to them and they just cannot be hit and they can hit me. if not those it was literal latency that takes ages for my hits to arrive on their end. I've already playing since release i don't have to experience the invasions or being invaded again. newcomers certainly can go try low level invasions, but tbh i had just enough shit show for elden ring invasions especially the hostility on the host's side is more prevalent than the one on invader's side.
I play on PC as well and have a pretty identical experience. If I'm taking my best guess, it's that PC optimization of the game in general is pretty bad and all of the connection latency in P2P networking is system dependent, so when their PC of any spec has frame drops or just bad performance it compounds the latency. As for the frustrations with Elden Ring, I get it too. I'm trying to get the most out of it and hoping against hope the DLC will change it in some surprising way, but I'm preparing myself for maybe never getting another way to play again.
@@emotionaljonxvx PC matches you with anyone, the only online regions are japan and not japan. If you're not japanese, you will be matched against players on the opposite side of the globe like it's normal. Plus EAC literally adds like 80 ms of latency. Thats why pc latency feels so bad, it is.
@@illwillpress100 Those are good points too. I think the matching by anywhere is a thing on console too but I'm not sure, though EAC has made the experience a lot worse. I get disconnected when invading or summoning people frequently and despite using the same system as DS3, I have many, many more issues. EAC seems to be the culprit as I understand console players don't have the same sort of problems.
For those new to invasions there was a covenant in dks1 called the gravelord covenant where you could curse other players worlds with black phantom enemies if they were in NG+. You in turn could be invaded by these players as hostile blues & you could also be invaded by dark wraith invaders. It’s thoughtful & inventive covenants like this that we need back for invasions to really flourish.
God if only everyone had your insight and wisdom to see both sides of the argument in ernest. I appreciate this video, I hope you continue to do more like it and I look forward to seeing more of your work in the future.
As someone that actually enjoy pvp (but more on the duelist side) I do like getting invaded in general, and even tried going for a solo run with taunters tongue always on but due to the map size of elden ring in the open areas and the constant backtracking for questlines and areas with non linear progressions I eventually got tired of constantly turning it on after each grace teleport and forgot to use it speacially bc most part of the pve is you running with torrent and ignoring a lot of shit.
The PVE in Elden Ring is something I find so frustrating for exactly those reasons. It's like it doesn't want me to engage with anything. It's such a different feeling to be compelled to just ride around on the horse and never touch the combat.
I did not like invasions when I first started playing ER. I basiclly knew that when I was invaded I was going to die most of the time. It felt oppresive at times. After a while I started to get better and it became more likely that I was going to win. At some point, I started to appriciate and enjoy invasions as part of the game. It was like a random boss fight. I still dont invade myself, but Im happy they are in the game.
I love every moment of my PvP experience and accept its flaws as it’s arguably the most casual multiplayer experience around. I’ll suggest y’all do the same, don’t take it too seriously just enjoy the fact that you get to put your own badass character against other people. That’s why these games are so loved by the PvP community.
I had to invasions for the bloody fingers test and I just went back to my game world cause I know how frustrating it is to get invaded when you're just trying to chill with your friends and fight bosses
I honestly think only making hosts with co-operators invadable was a mistake (and this is as someone who’s never tried invasions); because the pool of hosts with co-operators is relatively small compared to the wider playerbase it’s pretty much inevitable that you’ll get invaded every time you summon, which feels so much less fun than if they were rare enough to take you by surprise Plus invaders pretty much always being up against teams (and often gankers at that) weeds out the more casual / chill invaders for tryhards that can actually stand a chance against a dedicated gank For context I’ve been playing through the game co-op with two of my friends recently, and some invasions have honestly been pretty fun, but it’s so frustrating being invaded pretty much every time we summon / get summoned, especially now that we’re at meta level ranges (~125 to 150) because nearly every invader is running a tryhard meta build and just runs straight in to attack while we’re standing around emoting to see if they’re chill; but it doesn’t surprise me that most invaders are like that, because against gankers you’d have to be Tldr: I think if invasions were less frequent, and invaders weren’t constantly up against teams, it’d be a more fun experience on both sides
Topic request: Looking into the pros and cons of meta. How does a meta even become a meta? Why does it do that? What is the allure of meta? Who is deciding this (I've never been a part of some council of players who decides what is meta and what not) and based on what? How come it's prone to popping up in every game? And how does it link up to player bases becoming quite orthodox in their thinking of a game and how it can be played? Why is meta thinking so oppressive and antagonistic to not following it and in essence thinking outside the box? But if outside the box thinking bests the meta regularly enough, then it's quick to be absorbed and treated like 'tis is how it's always been. In some games, due to lack of foresight during designing, it meta can be very oppressive. Others, its more lines drawn in the water and is just one viable thing among many. Personally, I don't much care for metas. But I do note they seem to hold enormous sway in just about every game despite being only agreed upon notions where most don't even agree to it, but it gets imposed onto them. With real consequences (for example: when a bunch of random players apparently decided it would be meta to play Elden ring pvp at the 125 - 150 level range for...reasons???) to everyone. I kind of find it also odd, assuming most players are either employed or have other obligations of the sort, where this meta thinking and aligned orthodoxy comes from. Because if someone is going to be at the office in a very rigorous and hierarchically structured environment, why then do the same to their hobby in the form of gaming? Making it instead of fluid and creative rigorous, with the meta thinking seeming to shun thinking outside the box and only embracing conversion or conforming to it. Which can be incredibly anti-fun and seems to correlate perceived efficiency with fun. Noting here that the differences are not that staggering, and each ought to play to their own. In Elden Ring, with so much room to choose from, I find it especially odd we got the (as usual) quite orthodox meta think as a factor influencing quite a lot of things. I'd love to see you take a crack at the topic and see if you can begin to unravel what makes it tick some. As I got no clue why and where it comes from, as I don't subscribe to the meta orthodoxy thinking and generally just ignore other players trying to tell me how I ought to play my game in just about every game. Only to always without fail encounter a hostile reaction, where meta conformists will correlate not playing by the meta as playing with the worst options in an attempt to using snide remarks to verbally browbeat others into joining the meta orthodoxy.
I think that'd be a pretty interesting topic. My initial thoughts are just about how the meta establishes community agreements to adhere to conventional styles of play based around what is good or what makes sense. I think in Souls games a lot of it comes from the need to be close in level to get matched, and where the power scaling of those games reaches it's initial peaks / natural slowdown. I'll add it to my list, thanks for the suggestion!
I'm not sure what has changed, but I remember the days of playing ds2 and 3 and I'd never really run into a player that didn't try to at least attack the boss when they summon me for help. I've ran into to many people that summon me, and then expect me to solo their boss while they stay far away. These people have no drive to learn, no passion to improve. They just want to say "hey I beat the hard game. I'm cool, right?" making the game more casual friendly has just made it worse for the people that love everything included with fromsoft souls games. Peopl like the prestige of saying they beat the game, but they'll use the most braindead methods to achieve it and then think they're good at the game. Invaders quickly show them, they're not as good as they think.
Ds2 had the right idea with constant invasion other than in the hub area it increased invader response time and made it so blues actually had purpose and would have been great for elden ring even with out the need to summon co-op for host they just needed to limit it to 1v1 if no co-op unless a blue gets summoned as its not counted as co-op. Though they could still put in areas you can invade from but can't be invaded similar to what the npc from Blood Borne was doing with his locked room, they still have to fetch their souls and risk getting invaded i had a community based on this in ds3 but ppl wouldnt stay at the recommended lvl cap i set so it never got to actually work (or to see if it would actually work) Soul level was the only problem with it and can stay gone I loved invasions, and i hate to see how bad it has become even though they were so close to an actual good system, but they got scared and didn't learn anything from their previous titles and experiment to make invasions actually good to play and the loss of covenents from ds3 was a huge loss in elden ring as they all would have been perfect But this is my take on how to fix elden rings pvp
Its not that I dont like invasion and PvP. I dont like the huge power ceiling and how broken you can get in elden ring though which makes me glad that solo invasions dont exist. Their was broken stuff in older games too but not as bad as what ER offers. As such I slipped ER PvP and wont be trying again even after all the nerfs they've done. I say that as a once pretty good DS3 Duelist, when the game was more balanced it was fair to be solo invaded. Not so much here...
I get it and I share your frustrations. I really don't like how over the top a lot of ashes and spells have gotten. Even still, I'm of the mind that there's fun to be had if you're willing to put in the work but I'd be lying if I said it felt as good as any previous game. I wish Elden Ring was different and better in so many ways. I'm just even more worried that it represents a new direction for the series as a whole and might be the last time we even get invasions. I just want people to know what it's like as-is if they've never done it, and to give it as many chances as they can if they have the interest.
@@emotionaljonxvx Well if we want a game that can bring back solo invasions they'll have to make it less accessible then ER was with how over the top builds can get. More like DS3 balancing where magic is strong but a fraction of the power ER offers. It'd also have to "Simplify" a lot of mechanics to make the scales more balanced for both sides. With the success of ER I doubt they will go back to a more linear and less difficult experience though, they'll probably wanna take in the money and go even more over the top. Hoping I'm wrong but it's probably gonna happen.
@@celiafrostborn Yeah, I'm not holding my breath at this point but I know at least some part of the FromSoft team cares about PVP. I just hope they listen to the community and use their resources to make it work for everyone. There's got to be a better middle ground and if anyone can work it out, it'd be them.
I love imagining this video happening in a semi modern souls world where the undead/tarnished exist and invaders are an abused minority, and you're an invader who, anonymously, makes these videos to seek recognition, understanding and acceptance for his people :D btw, I think a low requirement "Vow of Silence" type spell that disables projectile based spells and ashes will greatly benefit Elden Ring pvp if FromSoft doesn't wanna balance everything XD What do you think?
I think Vow of Silence is really great and wish it was included in the game in some form. I don't mind spellcasting being very strong on its own but when you throw it into a 2v1 or 3v1 scenario where it's best asset is that it basically works like a gun, it can get old fast. I'd love a way to build around denying spellcasting. Maybe in the DLC.
low level invasions : either invading a bunch of players that are all on your level and are noobs, so its an easy, unrewarding win or you invade a passive lightroll host with max level phantoms gank that will give you 200k runes each but winning is unlikely since they 4ex. bleed you with ONE hit. not much left inbetween nowadays.
This is a great video, well said bro 🙏 I recently tried invasions around level 1-10, another around 30, and another around 137 and lose most of them and got kinda frustrated and felt helpless but havent done as much practicing/minmaxing to be as capable of winning as possible and im definitely average at pvp. I’ll probably try different builds, keep an open mind and give it another go. (Never tried invading with bows or spells so ill try that, might be easier too)
It's a bad situation, to be sure. I'm trying to make the most of it but there's no part of me that isn't absolutely livid at the removal of 6 player PVP in particular. It's such a nonsense move that has hurt me so badly.
When i get over being t bagged ill become a blue And when i spawn in I run uo to the red getting ganked and remove all my armor and let him refill his juice. One time I came in as a blue in caelid and a red was trying everytning he could agaisnt a taunting host locked up in the horse jump tower like a friggn princess. He was droping rainbow stones and gesturing like an ass. I crept up to the red and dropped him a jar canon and ammo, he took one shot and knocked the host down killing him. The way the red whipped around and looked at me then starting pumping his fist was one the best moments ive had iin any souls game. These games are truly special and as players we are not special, only capable of doing special things.
I think the thing i dislike most about invasions is that there arent very good rewards for cooperators. Some runes? Alright, sure. But i could also kill 6 billion toadmen. (In fact, i have. Quality build all softcaps, no level cap, just use everything.) If a rune arc was the reward, better. >> If our great runes would both work and be lost, even better still! It could give real stakes to being a cooperator apart from lost time. Maybe then being cooperator or hunter wouldnt be the default. Hope Shadow DLC has more interesting great runes, cuz right now i'm never dropping my rally from Malenia's
The lack of incentives is hard. Being able to use invasions (or any multiplayer, really) as a way to reward players with rare items like starlight shards or raw meat dumplings would be a welcome addition. Without anything of value, you pretty much just invade to invade. Makes it feel less exciting and lacks a sense of progress. Instead, you're just draining resources that you then have to stop invading to go grind back. Not a great cycle.
Oh hell yeah. Yknow, if the reward were random among rune arc, starlight shard, and meat dumpling, that would be a great incentive. Or perhaps unique incentives. Since Starlight Shards can't be farmed (as far as i know). Rewarding invasions with something that is unfarmable otherwise is a great motivator, and presents a convenient excuse for when people question the purpose of engaging with the system. P.s. I dont think we are in danger of invasions not appearing in future fromsoft titles like this. I think the main reason other games don't have invasions is lwss stigma and more economics. Network and multiplayer features are hard to implements, and servers can have much higher costs that expected. Fromsoft has the resources to keep it around, especially because it keeps the player base engaged between longer development cycles
@@SocraTetris I like that you do get rune arcs from winning invasions but I wish they had more purpose, especially in invasions. I rarely use them at this point so they're hardly a reward.
I love luring and getting invaded. I solo lure. I'm a on mission to get to max level without any dupes. it's been going on for 2 years now. Luring is literally the fastest way to get runes and level
I usually invade at meta level, I've been using some low level builds as well (60 - 90) but I'm mostly at meta level at around 138. I really like invading to be honest, I wish the people knew that not everyone is there trying to one-shot everyone and "RUIN THEIR GAMEPLAY", I invade, I say hello to everyone most of the time, try to understand if they're chill or they're trying to gank me (which, unfortunately, has a good probability at high level), see if I can hangout with them like a new friendly invader that just wants to meet players... I really wish there were incentives to play PvP, invaders and co-opers would be more inclined to play and we would all see more activity (And maybe we would all like to play PvP a bit more), I hope the DLC will bring something more interesting (or merchants)
@@emotionaljonxvx I think there's really no incentive to play PvP at all, not only invasions. Even Colosseum would've been interesting but it has the same problem as the classical PvP, it has no purpose at all. I like souls game but what keeps me playing are the online interactions, I don't care about going NG+7 on my builds but I know there are players out there still running NG with different builds over and over
If invasions are removed in Elden Ring 2 (a game that is without question in Bandai Namco's pipeline), co-op is getting removed as well. When that happens, it will be the most satisfying thing to see those who whined about invasions start to complain that they can't play the sequel with their friends. You made your bed, now you must sleep in it.
This video hurt my heart man. The thought of these games losing what made them so special makes me worry about the future of from’s games. I know when Miyazaki inevitably leaves or retires we’re gonna get more ds2 s. I’m not a very open gamer I stick with these games because there’s nothing else out there that makes such well polished original fantasy concepts like Miyazakis games. So if they ever go down hill my gaming might dwindle. I really hope someday fromsoft can get their shit together and quit repeating the same damn mistakes they make for every game in the pvp department.
Part of me wants to think I'm being ridiculous and that they'd never abandon invasions or PVP, but then I think about just how diminished it is in Elden Ring and how unnecessary taking down the player limit and invasion zones was. I pretty much only play these games and I only keep playing them for the multiplayer. Without those features, I'd probably stick to TTRPGs at that point. The future is uncertain.
Invasions make for an interesting and exciting experience. The only thing I dislike about em is the matchmaking system, making it take forever at a higher level. You can some days get going in minutes. Others it takes an eternity and a half. Same problem for all other forms of multiplayer and co-op play. The matchmaking system seems to really not like higher level people. I'm the sort who dislikes making multiple characters and sticks with one. It's annoying to feel like level ups come with a punishment because of how it negatively impacts the availability of multiplayer and co-op due to bad matchmaking.
It felt a lot more sensible in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls when the whole idea was that you just don't know what's happening but with how expansive and varied Elden Ring's progression is, it really would have been nice if they expanded the matchmaking ranges and actually gave people easily accessible information about how it works. It's identical to Dark Souls 3 which makes me think they just didn't bother with it, the effects of which can be felt more and more as the game ages and the player base dwindles.
125-150 is meta stick with that and you'll see a lot of people invasion matchmaking ranges matter a lot sadly but 168 seems to be active too from what i recall?
@@shinren_ Why and who arbitrarily decided that was the meta range anyway? Just curious. I'm the sort that usually looks at a meta and throws it over my shoulder to the side because I don't much like to play how others play, but how I play. As such, I never care for metas. This one seems especially silly from my point of view, so I am curious where it came from and most of all why.
@@videocrowsnest5251 from my understanding its to maximise connectivity between players and allow urself to make a creative build. People in elden ring now go to 139 so that they can connect to 125 and 150
Personally I like getting invaded both prepared and unprepared. The invasion mechanic itself was better in the older games though (bc covenants and solo invasions). Elden Ring pvp still feels good when the stars align. It feels like there's so many different builds and tools to experiment with. I say when the stars align because my problems with ER invasions are due to factors that are outside of my control. Those being player build/gear choice, the glitches, and the latency issues. Player gear choice, because I seem to usually get matched with the same handful of builds, glitches because of things like the funny chainsaw or the fire's deadly sin glitch as examples, and latency because no matter how good my connection is I can't seem to play around it. Last one could definitely chalk up to a skill issue. If I have some latency shenanigans happening I am almost certain to lose because I straight up just haven't figured out yet how to compensate and play around it. I'm definitely going to be playing before the dlc comes out, I still need to remake most of my builds on PC. Was on PS4 previously. I've been doing a little DSR pvp lately, it makes me think ER isn't so ridiculous in a lot of ways. It reminded me of how my old mindset used to be, and it was mostly all fun and games in pvp back then because it was too broken to take remotely serious, and I liked learning things about pvp/fighting from observing my invaders even if it meant dying. How I went from that to getting easily frustrated at stuff that's way lesser than certain DS1 shenanigans is beyond me. Hoping to keep this mindset going for when I come back to ER pvp because I genuinely have fun experimenting with builds, tactics and invading shenanigans.
TBH I've played the entirety of the game, other than the first few minutes before I looked for the network setting, offline because I refuse to be some victim of nonconsensual pvp/ganking. Nor will I ever allow myself to be some random victim in some gamers video for the purpose of them getting paid to gank people. Glad you enjoy the mechanic, you didn't change my mind though, it's still just ganking people. I dealt with enough of that over the decades of online gaming that I have no interest in dealing with gankers ever again tbh.
It took a long time for me invading through ds3 and then since ER’s release to be able to reliably beat a lot of types of players and parties, and it just hit me last Tuesday evening that almost all of the difficulty and frustration of invasions has gone away to the point that invading actually can be a low blood pressure weeknight experience. It’s insane to conciously catalog all the little improvements and techs you not only learn but commit to muscle memory that can turn every invasion into just a nice brain workout; much closer to the “player controlled strong enemy” that was intended. Making builds is a really enoyable roleplaying experience to the point I honestly don’t understand why people make new characters if they aren’t going to be used for the invasion system in some way. I think Saint Riot is absolutely right that invasions are the true end game.
Saint Riot is always right, even when he's just howling about naming special moves after foods he knows. Especially when he's naming moves after foods he knows.
Honestly i find it kinda sad purely because the invasion system in elden ring is one of my only issues with it but its an unbelievably massive issue. Simply put i feel no fear of an invader and i have no reason to nor will i ever in elden ring it feels like in the past souls games they could be a genuine threat but in elden ring they're more of a joke and a free refill of flasks
youre the most articulate invader ive watched. truly a great experience. not as good as invasions but... pretty close man i hope i was drunk when i insulted john the severed.. again, my apologies and ty for your insights.
I love invasions,if they take them out I’m pretty sure I’ll be out as well I can accept all the advantages stacked against me when I’m invade and I’m all for it I hope they never leave,I don’t care like I’m ok with invaders getting nerfed from now but I hope and pray they never take invasions out of the formula because to me invasions are the whole formula
I love invasions going all the way back to demons souls I rarely invade myself but I'm always finding myself engaging with pvp in other ways I enjoy being invaded, playing as the yellow monk in DES, gravelording in ds1, arenas in ds2 and Elden ring Elden ring is my favorite fromsoft pvp due to the game mechanics and options, but I do agree with the problems you listed. I don't have hope they will address it either but they could surprise us Like you said, I prefer to use my pvp powers for good, you might see me as a yellow because I enjoy helping people get through dungeons with the hope I will face an invader or two Don't stop invading, if you do who would I have to defend against?
One of the few problems I had with what you said is that Capitalism IS anithetical to art. It CAN be antithetical to art, just as every single other system can be. But putting it the way you did, it puts a bad mark on a system that CAN be good, AND bad. I'm not defending the system we currently have, which can, and does produce problems.
Capitalism is only bad and it can't be good. Anything positive that occurs under capitalism does so despite that system, not because of it. But hey, I'm a communist.
@@emotionaljonxvx ohhh, I understand. Thank you for clarifying on that, I appreciate it. While I disagree, I understand why people would think that. have a good day my man.
And yes, i agree with you so far, i played elden blinded and ignoring most of the online Community, and now, when i see a magic spammer, Vike Lance, or whatever, for me it just a character Im fighting, not "ah this Kid using that or this" no its like, a chance to improve, and to win as an underdog, to defeat them and show them respect after that, so maybe they can change if they need it, unless they use what they use for fun and not cause "its meta"
I definitely have a really bad habit of taunting my foes and not being respectful after winning, but usually only when I think they can handle it or when I feel they've been particularly rotten. Not my best quality but sometimes I do like to be bad. Do as I say, not as I do.
@@emotionaljonxvxi mean its the natural reaction to taunt someone, i rarely do it, only if the other person is clearly playing to ruin others expirience. But taunting other kind of players wont change what they are doing
@@yaniobi Oh certainly not and I try to resist the urge. On my newest (bad) build, just with how uphill some of the battles can be I get a little carried away.
While it's interesting to see the perspective of someone who really likes Elden Ring or Dark Souls PvP, it's just not for me and most likely never will be. I don't want nor need PvP in my games, and I do not have the patience for people that behave poorly while doing so (don't think I didn't see that tea bagging in the video). A lot of this stems from people specifically praying on low level people that are most likely to be new to the game, as I recently went through every Souls game for the first time - Elden Ring was my first game too and that all meant that every invasion was a certain death for me, to such an extent that not even the most difficult bosses gave me such a level of hopelessness. And the thing is, I did even try it a little bit in DS3 as I learned of the covenant rewards, but my success rate was so miserable that I had more luck just farming the items outright from the scarce PvE drops. Honestly over all the games I can't remember ever winning a fight, and at such a point just saying "git gud" isn't helping. I just want to play with my friends and be left alone otherwise. The games are hard enough as is and I'm appearantly not cut out for the PvP.
It takes time to get into invading and the tea bagging is just meant to be a gag. There's no such thing as an unqualified player who isn't cut out for invasions, as no one starts out good. I sincerely understand wanting to play with your friends and I get seeing invaders as little more than an intrusion and annoyance. What I really want to get across is that there's no real fair or good way to invade, because it's all fair and it's all good. It's an incredibly robust part of the game and it adds so much more than it could ever impede. That said, your experience is not invalid. The only real way to change or grow from that perspective is to actually try invading for an extended period of time and learn what makes them so great. It's not something you have to do, and it sounds like it's something you're less than interested in, but it's something I'd still encourage you to do. Invading is something special but it's work. It can be hard to appreciate and harder still to fully embrace but it's worth it. If you think you can give it another shot, there's no time like the present. If not, maybe next time. Thanks for the comment
Most enjoyable time I had with elden ring was before the whole map invasion I was rune level 60 dont remeber what level my gear was but I was cosplaying vyke and I got so many people with that war spike.
Vkye is such a cool character and since FromSoft saw fit to undercut his role, it's only fair that someone should take up the mantle in his place. After all, why else would he drop his gear?
I was one of those people that watched like all of chase’s invasions and loved it but was to scared to try cause I didn’t want to get bopped……tried it finally in elden ring, the worst pvp system in souls, and it was amazing. I couldn’t put it down and played constantly in arena 1v1’s and actually “got good”. Fromsoft has one of the most uniquely fun pvp systems that actually lets you fight nights and wizards and a mystical world. It’s nothing like it in 2d fighting games or even something like for honor lol. If they put 20% effort out of the 100% into the pvp for dlc people will not stop playing this game ever. It’s just so different
Yeah, it's funny that it would take comparatively so few resources to make the game last forever and yet they just won't take those last few steps. It's almost like they don't want to or, more realistically, like they just keep getting distracted by shiny new toys like the open world.
Honestly, I think we need to temper our expectations about DLC PvP... MIyazaki has been uncharacteristically vocal about the DLC and what it's going to be like, and there's been little to no mention about about anything PvP related-such as covenants, invasion zones, or an overhaul to the current invasion mechanics like increased player counts. This goes hand-in-hand with my disappointment about the NPC questlines. I was hoping the DLC was going to be a massive overhaul "Scholar of the First Sin" style, where they would revamp all the old and cut NPC questlines. But, it looks like they are not doing that, and the DLC area is going to be completely separate with its own NPCs and questlines to complete. Which is incredibly disappointing because i really wanted to see Kale, Asimi, Vyke, Melina, Sellen, and all the other quests reinstated or improved. So, I don't count on the DLC bringing back the features of Dark Souls 3 PvP. The nail in the coffin for me was learning why they ruined Elden Ring's invasions to begin with. I thought it was because they were lacking in time, or they wanted to try something different from DS3 that eventually didn't pan out. But, from what I heard, the current state of Elden Ring PvP was an intentional decision made to make the game more accessible to a wider range of players. And when you look back, it makes sense. MUCH of Elden Ring is designed to purposefully be more accessible-from Stakes of Marika all the way to Spirit Ashes. Very disappointing. At this point, I'm not going to expect much from the DLC. I'm keeping my desires low and hoping to be pleasantly surprised. If I get good exploration, visceral bosses, and one or two emotional moments like Hewg or Melina, then I'll be satisfied.
Yeah, I don't really think the DLC is going to change anything other than bringing in more gear and more areas. I hope, but I am no fool. It'll be a lot of fun, I'm sure, but the idea that it'll address PVP in any way feels like a longshot for me. I just want people to try invading before the hype, to experience the end of the first era of Elden Ring.
My favorite part of being an invader is coming up with a fun name. My current name is “Tax Collector” but I’ve also considered “GLOBAL WARMING” and “Fire-Man”. I like to imagine the horror or curiosity of the hosts I invade at my character appearing in their world. There’s also nothing like the adrenaline rush I get at the “invading another world” message or the memories I have of winning outnumbered in a creative way. If they ever get rid of invasions, the pve isn’t enough for me to stay.
Yeah, Souls without PVP is a completely different sort of game in my mind. I feel bad that I've never been able to get into Sekiro but without character building and PVP it's just sort of not interesting to me, even if I know it's a great game.
After the last video, I tried invading some more. After the second one, I got private messages trash talking me after getting beat by two players spamming raduvias. Got told I wouldn't survive a MW2 lobby. The irony...
Yeah, that happens. The vitriol you can experience from PVE players is honestly the worst I've ever experienced. I used to be a ganker who would salt the shit out of invaders because I was convinced they were the bad guys but over time I learned my mistake. Keep trying and don't give up, skeleton. When you win, you'll still get hatemail but you'll know the truth.
@@emotionaljonxvx Thanks! I'm not giving up but I was surprised about getting hate for losing a 2 v 1 at low level. Although, I was in coop with them (randoms) as they were setting up their gank so I left and managed to invade them. I thought it would be a funny thing to do but they were pissed.
@@fredbyoutubing Honestly that can make it funnier. Whenever I get people really heated I know I'm doing something either very right or very funny. Or I'm just being the worst.
@@emotionaljonxvx Yeah, I figured they were looking for invaders so I was confused that they were mad at me invading. As if a coop player was part of their clan by default. I don't like ganking in coop so usually I just stay in their world to watch them fight and keep a slot taken so it's not a 3v1. I give the invaders better oidds.
I personally started playing Elden Ring a few weeks ago and I had to do a side quest where I had to invade people 3 times and that shit was a nightmare it took like over 10 minutes each to just get one invasion to work. Glad it’s only an optional thing but definitely one of the weaker aspects of the game in my opinion.
It's a little more complicated than it needs to be and Elden Ring hasn't handled it very well. The whole system is tied to character level and maximum level upgrade. You invade people who are relatively close to your character by those metrics so most people make builds to target a specific range. It can be a ton of fun and it's worth the investment but I don't blame you for not loving how obtuse the introduction and mechanics can be.
I’m not a fan of invading but I’ll watch “ Lost “ and Chase the Bro “ play every day… personally I’m more into the LORE of Elden Ring and im a level 405 and still find myself finding new gear, new weapons or spells … the game is just so massive and pvp takes time away from discovering more imo
That's really interesting because I think all the time that the game is too massive and it takes time away from doing PVP. Funny how different sorts of playstyles can give you such different outlooks.
does Elden Ring even have invasions? since we can only fight pvp when we allow other players to join our world? I don't think they're even invasions anymore it's not that I hate the invasion, it's just that the entire online aspect of ER is bad, I devoted over a hundred hours to pvp in ER and I didn't have a single memorable memory, nothing, emptiness, how is it possible that I can talk about random great interactions in DS1, 2, 3 but I can't say the same about ER, most of it was a waste of time, so few good fights and any other weird interaction
I feel your frustration. I mostly want people who hate invaders to give invading a try to gain some perspective, even if I think Elden Ring PVP is a far cry from Dark Souls 3.
Meh maybe I’ll try invasions again but I’m not optimistic 🤷🏻♂️ The “get good” is pretty funny, I’m casual player and I can’t pretend to dedicate the time that some others have to hone their build and experience level. Play how you like ✌🏼
I will never enjoy invading or pvp from any souls game until they fix the net code. If I'm constantly getting hit by attacks I clearly avoided then there is no hope of finding any fun in that
The netcode is horrendous and it's a damn shame. Makes it feel a lot like fighting on a trampoline, but not in a fun or funny way. It still has its merits for me but I can't blame anyone for hating the inconsistency and hyperlag.
I enjoy invasions from both perspectives and quite frankly learning an appreciation for this is essential for true experience even with the big limitations of Elden Ring PvP compared to prior entries it’s still awesome to see invaders keeping the spirt alive mad respects to y’all! I would have absolutely love to see 6 to 8 players in a single world and image some mad phantoms toss in there pure chaos & heaven to me!
@@emotionaljonxvx I was thinking about it and keeping legacy dungeons & catacomb etc those areas with 6 players but here is the catch in open world that will go to 8 total players. It just sounds so fun to me exploring the world with your friends then you get Invaded by an single red but during that time chances of more are likely to appear reds & blues alike for both sides to create a true big team battle!! My ideas might sound silly or crazy but that’s my imagination for fun more "the merrier is the saying"!
From the perspective of a less skilled player. Dying to an invasion and putting yourself on the post-invade cd is an extremely annoyong exit point for when you decide you need help with anything that isn’t in a boss arena
When you realize that annoyance is the feeling in yourself thats holding yourself back... You will ascend. Use it as a tool and you will become stronger. The PVE is essentially the player invading the game world..
@@emotionaljonxvx it was a Maldron inspired one where I had a fire greatlance and would try to befriend the host only to blow up the fire barrels along the ramparts and in the courtyard area. Was good fun.
Sekiro was my first from software game and Elden Ring is my First software game with invasions. I did mostly just PvE stuff and seeing people complain about invasions and invaders complain about co-ops. I decide to try some TT in legacy dungeons and some Invasions as well just to see whats it like. While being invaded I can see how annoying it can become (especially if you are getting wrecked by the mobs atm when the invader shows up) but it does add some spice to the game flow. While being an invader I can see how annoying it can be to get 3v1 or 2v1 with spell spams from some high level co-ops but it is fun fighting multiple people at once, going through all types of terrian and level design, fighting different play styles and having to adapt to each person. I have come to the conclusion that invaders are some whiny people. Like yeah complaining about dying at times when a host has level advantage+numbers advantage can seen being a baby. but how can some invaders go around saying "I always point down, throw shit at them, and tell them to git good" while also at the same time go "Why are they teabagging me :(" . I have seen some of these "Top Invaders" straight up cheat/exploits when there is some lag and then call the host/coopers shitters afterwards. I don't really see them removing invasions anytime soon. Sure , it may be different from past games but if they didn't care about it why did they improve the functions of it in future updates? Anyway, Best way to guess the future and see if they learn anything from Elden Ring is gonna be the DLC. Base on that we can assume what they learn from trying to create and open world dark souls game and future games.
I loved Invasions in Demons Souls and Dark souls 1 (I have hundreds of hours across them both, mostly pvp) then I just sorta realized how atrocious the netcode was for it, and how tacked on and generally shitty it makes them feel, on both sides of it, and it sorta just lost it's appeal, I pretty directly hit a point where I was invading and PvPing in the original Dark Souls and starting to realize that at least half the time the deciding factor in an invasion was just.....some form of lag or shitty netcode. I don't blame the games for not putting a bigger focus on this stuff, it's not the point of the game, it really IS a tacked on feature, but I just realized that winning or losing to another player typically wasn't that fun.....so I just stopped enjoying it as much, and stopped doing it as much. I don't want them to get rid of it or anything, I just don't care about it so much anymore. In short, I don't hate WHAT invasions are, I just sort of hate HOW invasions are....if that makes sense.
Yeah, they're definitely a mess. I do think it's the sort of thing where a lot of general latency and the way the netcode processes can be learned (there are still extremes) and that helps to make it a lot more palatable. Assuming there's no egregious connection issue, even when the netcode is being laggy it can be relatively consistent. I had a really hard time getting into Bloodborne PVP because everything is just a little bit delayed and it made me feel like I couldn't make sense of it. But after some practice and watching a few videos, I got into the rhythm and learned to compensate. The system should just be better though. It's a fantastic idea and it doesn't get proper attention.
@@emotionaljonxvx Oh it for sure can be learned, and to me I think that was sort of where the problem came in. It's fine to have to learn the mechanics of a game to play them effectively, but when you have to learn how to manipulate an external technical issue with the game, it becomes less enjoyable to engage with. That was really where I started hitting the wall in invasions. The concept of forcing your way into another players game to disrupt it or have that done to you is really fun. But when I would invade people in the traditional sense (not in a zone that was "marked" for PvP) I started to find that I was winning, not because I outsmarted the player I invaded, but because I HAD learned how to work with the janky netcode, and the player who hadn't learned was at a natural disadvantage, which sure fine, it CAN be learned, but in my opinion it's not something that you can fault someone for NOT learning naturally because it's not really a part of the game, it's just a byproduct of something that is poor about the game, and because of that, it's naturally just less fun, because I can't without absurd levels of autism, tell players to "git gud" at learning how to manipulate or work within the shitty netcode of a game to improve their performance in what is essentially a side aspect of that game (one that in the past was sort of randomly forced upon them, most of the time without them even realizing it was a thing) without feeling a bit like a spaz. So instead I just accepted it for what it was, hoped it would maybe be improved in the future, but it never really was, so it just sort of remained something that didn't feel worth engaging with, and I feel like it would be worth more if it was more solidly implemented, but as it stands, while I agree with your points around why it's a cool idea and for sure wish it was a more core feature, to me, that's all it ever really remained in From games, a cool idea that was never implemented on a level that helped it live up to it's potential. It's why I also understand people who don't want to have to deal with it at all period, because even if they are biased against PvP in general, there is too much wrong with what is there to warrant the argument for, over the argument against, no matter how much I wish that wasn't the case.
Try invading for yourself. Go in without malice and give people a fight you feel is fair. Be the invader you'd want to be invaded by. Invaders can be bullies, absolutely. But they don't have to be. The mere presence of an invader isn't inherently negative. Give it a try for yourself and see how you feel about PVE players on the other end. There's a lot more nuance than you might think.
@@emotionaljonxvx Actually I did it in ds3 but only for quest progression to get some gear. It wasn't fun, since the host instantly activated flight and godmode and one hit me. That happened quite often. Not very fun.
Yeah, I didn't mean it like that. Just that people will have new toys and new metas and all that. Not that the DLC is going to otherwise improve invasions in any way, just that it'll be different because of new content.
While I do enjoy the multiplayer in Elden Ring is all its forms I'm doing a Taunters Tongue play though at the moment as a solo host and it's really fun. I'd recommend giving that a go if you're not a fan of the 2v1 or 3v1 scenarios and want something a little more chill and closer to a classic Souls experience. It's a really nice time. A little annoying that I keep getting bodied and running out of Furlcalling Finger Remedies though but such is life. 😂
With the DLC it'll come back in full force for at least a month or two. In the meantime, try some different level brackets. I can find pretty steady activity levels 10-40 but the higher up I got the fewer and farther between they become.
I found that covering myself in red paint and breaking into my neighbor's houses to be a good substitute for invading in elden ring.
Fortunately they anticipated you because the house came with a sign that says "THIS HOUSE WILL BE BROKEN IN TO"
Someone wants to invade you, he wants to invade your heart, and his name is Jesus.
That’s a dumbass comparison. When you participate in multiplayer you don’t get to chose what aspect you get.
@@hideyasuyuki1 its a substitute! I never said it was perfect! Give me your home address!!!!
Good call i ll try that with my power stance dirty laundry build 🤔
Invasion puts the uncertainty that I feel when I enter a boss fog for the very first time.
And so many people (especially newcomers to the series via ER) hate that. With a passion. The dwindling in the base, at least on PC, is probably because of Seamless Co-Op more than anything. Casual MMO lovers just want that vibe.
I hope that feeling never goes away. I’ve hopped to Bloodborne and now I pray to get ganked. It gives me that feeling without fail. I love it so much.
There’s nothing better than seeing the “you’ve been invaded by x” message at the bottom of the screen in a souls game. Man it gets my blood pumping. Same goes for when I invade when I’m desperate or just want to. Too bad Elden Ring PVP is hostile to those who use non meta builds and weapons like me. Great video
I really wish they would have preserved solo invasions, at least in legacy dungeons. I miss not needing to deliberately opt-in to get invaded with co-op or TT. It just felt more natural and more unnerving. I miss my anxiety-ridden game!
its what made dark souls feel special while playing. nothing ever came close besides one thing. when i was a kid me and a couple friends did home invasions. sounds horrible but we never stole anything or destroyed stuff, we were just in for the kick. the fun. thats how invasions feel to me
More of this kind of player please.
I'd love to have had a few covenants that would not post that msg, so it would be easier to surprise the host and make assanation a viable option for reds
My list of hate:
Loading times, loading screens, invasion queues, waiting, there's so much empty time before you get the invasion that can last anywhere from few seconds to tens of minutes. This is why doing invasions feels like a chill activity - put on some music, wait for invasions. around 50% of the time spent on a bad day is at a grace throwing attacks at the air, backstepping around.
Stupid spawn points (Castle sol spawns OUTSIDE?? the castle??, Mount Gelmir.) and useless invasions zones. Big or small empty areas before a fogwall shouldn't be invasion area, because, you get instantly, fogwalled... (Radagon hallway, Radahn beach, Morgott, Godfrey). + Spawning when the host is already in the boss, invading into stone platform, invading into dragonlords arena (bugs like that)
Overleveled phantoms. Fix the scaling, OR make systems of the host being invadable by lvl 200 invaders as well then, or buff the invader to mirror the overleveled phantom - scale every phantom to average of everyones level in the world. Too big brain for fromsofware, never going to happen.
I hate blue phantoms - I hate what they did to blue phantoms, they feel so useless and lacklustre in Elden Ring. I want blue phantoms to be this cool covenant of actually fair saviors of the innocent. Now they simply are a ganker automatically.
Missed potential everywhere, covenants, player limits, rewards.
Balance of damage is all over the place... compared to ds3 from my experience. Ranged attacks do too much damage in ER. They shouldn't do more than melee generally speaking, ever. The wider the attack, more range it has, the more the damage should be toned down. (Moonveil, Blasphemous blade, spells)
Too many meme anime weapons (mostly their ashes. ash of war & spell spam). There were only a few of these in past games. In ds3, there was the Dragonslayer greataxe, Nameless King lightning spear thing etc. Now, in L2den Ring they give everyone the nuke the screen win-button. Ashes of war should be these supplements for the moveset, and almost equal to the normal attacks of the weapon in efficiency (like in ds3). I hate those mods that have created custom katana attacks with 5 quick moonveil anime slashes in 1 second with lightning effects around the character for miles, like I don't want fromsoftware to see that and get any ideas for the direction they would take their new weapons, it disgusts me. The direction they are going with elden ring doesn't look good for their future games, if they keep this up, the fundamentals of their game are going to break at some point.
I remember these games were about some knight crawling in tight corridors, spacing, dodging, with a straight sword, positioning so that they wouldn't bounce their sword against the wall, kicking, mixing up the few moves available against enemies, carefully timed, thoughtful puzzle. Simpler, more believable. More of that please.
Completely agree. I want my dungeon crawler back, dammit! You'd think if they're gonna trade all the darkness and claustrophobia that they'd at least substitute it with a more intuitive and useful system, but instead we just have a ton of old mechanics grafted onto this huge game with next to no consideration for how they play.
The fact that they let as much damage go through ashes and spells is so funny, because I'm someone who really prefers low fantasy where magic is just a tool in your arsenal, rather than the arsenal itself. I get why they went more high fantasy for what Elden Ring is trying to accomplish but I miss it being more locked in. I want the struggle to feel grounded and real.
Maybe next time.
this might be a little lengthy so i apologize in advance.
Elden Ring was my first souls game. i was always interested in playing the others but got discouraged by the difficulty. when ER dropped, i gave it a shot and i fell in love with it. this was only the PvE aspect. after about 1000+ hours, i finally decided to try invasions and there was a serious learning curve in the beginning. another 100+ hours of invasions, i fell in love all over again.
i hope they continue to expand and add more to invasions/PvP because that is what's keeping me on the game longer.
I had a similar experience but I'm in the process of learning to get better at pvp.
At the very beginning I disliked invasion because I played coop to help others beat bosses and gain runes. But the more it happened, the more I was looking forward to an exciting fight with the invader. What I hope for with the DLC is a mechanic for invasions similar to hunters: when the item is active, you may get randomly matched to coop with an invader who's facing a team of 3 alone.
@@fredbyoutubing that's a cool idea! i like the sound of helping invaders when they are overly out numbered.
@@Jaciry Yeah! It would give the gankers an actual challenge and make encounters last longer and be less predictable.
I started invading in Elden Ring and hoh boy there is some regrets to it. Although I'm glad that I did it, learning in this environment is extremely hard but it certainly is possible. I never really appreciated PvP before I started invading, as I just didn't see the fun in getting curb stomped by the issues other invaders were already bringing up but there was one thing that helped
Not giving a shit about dying and just having fun. Not immediately charging and fighting, but saying hi to hosts and their phantoms, or give them some gifts. I fell in love with what arguably *should be* the spirit of invasions. It's not necessarily about winning, even though it is nice.. it's about the LOVE for the same game and how they work. Since I started taking this approach I've had many fun moments, and most things that "top tier" (read; tryhards) complain about don't bother me. I had hosts that jumped off a cliff with me, ones that teabagged their phantoms after I bribed them with 20 Lord Runes to let me fight them solo. Hosts that partake in the joy of having a random stranger do silly stuff in your lobby
God I love invading
It's such a fun mechanic that let's you do so much. The ability to decide what's fun for you is something I wish more games would implement. I love the way people get into their own styles and champion their own causes. It makes for such a rich community and experience.
Hopefully the DLC and future titles will give us more opportunities and ways to invade and participate in multiplayer.
Hard agree, I wish for more opportunities and ways to invade. My biggest one is still covenants in the DLC, as unlikely as they are to be in there. Invasions make the experience of a From Software game so much better
I’ve found that people often just mess around with you if you open by just sitting or lying down, I’ve gotten a few fistfights that way
This is the difference between invaders and gankers. Gankers take it personal invaders take it to the next invasion.
As far as bridging/explaining the gap between the two sides goes, as you’ve put it, I’d say you’ve succeeded.
I don’t invade often, but I’ve still had a fun experience doing it. What I find appealing about invading is that it’s a way of testing a core belief of mine about soulslikes-you can take any loadout, any choice of weapon/s, and manage to win any fight thrown your way. You have a dagger and your opponent is a guy with a spear? You can beat him if you play right. You dual wielding spiked door shields? You can beat anyone with enough tenacity. I absolutely love doing what other invaders would call bashing my head into a wall-I love trying to brute force wins.
Among my first, idk, fifteen invasions, two of them ended up in that kind of way, where it felt like I actually wrenched victory out of my opponent’s hands.
It’s because those memorable wins were when I was very new to PvP, that I think invasions are for everyone. That nobody is too low-skill to be capable of winning.
I love trying to win playing "my way" because I'm generally a little meta-averse. I like to do things however I think it'd be cool to do but that's not always the best. But these games, generally speaking, let you play however you want and, with enough skill, come out victorious. It's a glorious thing, indeed.
One aspect no one seems to mention are the FRIENDLY reds, I personally enjoy invading with absolutely stupid builds and trying to be friendly with those I invade. Sometimes they get the hint and I’m able to help them in some way, all before having a fun dual, other times they don’t get the idea and throw poop pots at my dead corpse. Either way, being a friendly red is so much fun and it is hysterical seeing a host slowly walking up to a gift on the ground all before they get nuked by some enemy they couldn’t see.
This. This is why I love invasions. Sure, every invasions usually ends in a fight, but it doesn't have to START with immediate ganking and backstabbing. I think one of my favorite invasions was at the start of Mohg palace, and I ended up dropping warming stones and using torches to help the duo through the crypt/cave/thingy. And whenever another invader showed up? I'd hold them off while the duo kept their focus on the pve combat, and then we'd finish them off together. Probably the best invasion I've ever had.
I got messages about that as far back as Dark Souls 1.
I appreciate this perspective. I appreciate surprise invasions. Saying hey to the very person that will ruin your progress.
Invasions and PvP are the only reason that I have over 1300 hours in ER. If it weren’t for the multiplayer I would have dropped the game after 200 hours at most. It really is crazy to think about how much value I’ve gotten out of a $70 game that I paid for once. Making new builds is infinitely more engaging when you are able to test their meddle in PvP, it’s the gift that keeps on giving. FromSoft needs to make an entire new game devoted to maximizing the multiplayer elements of the souls games to their potential. I really hope that they recognize the value of what they inadvertently created and give it the chance it deserves.
Ya know what's crazy? This game was/is $60. Not even on the new standard yet!
And I really, really want them to revisit the cut content idea they had for a battle royale-type mode in Dark Souls 3 where you could just fight forever. I want infinite battles. I want infinite game. I'd pay $100 easy.
I for the life of me cannot recall the first time I ever invaded someone in Ds3, but I can recall the first time I was on the receiving end:
It was the Crucifixion Woods and I was invaded by an NPC invader, who i mistook for a player. I remember feeling so aggravated about how I was loosing to the same "no-lifer" for 15-20 mins straight, which is pretty funny in hindsight. I can't remember how my first invasions went (likely in my attempts to complete the Rosaria Finger Questline), but I vividly remember among my earlier invasions as a Watchdog of Faaron.
In being summoned in from the Ithryll, I was met with a fightclub for the first time. There were reds, blues, a host, and I believe another watchdog. I remember seeing a few players siting while 2 others where fighting. Thankfully I was smart enough to look around and watch what was happening before interrupting. When the fight was over, and the host points to me and another player (albeit, a few times, trying to coax me to fight), I swiftly got my butt kicked, and the victor bowed as I faded.
This simple act of sportsmanship left a lasting impression on me, and it's what I try to give to other players when I invade, though the Host's may not be as lenient. It's just small moments like this that make me love invading and [being] invaded. I truly hope that those who haven't tried it give it a fair shake, or at least duel with friends if practice is a subject of concern
There's something so unique about invasions and I hate that people get dismissive of them without even trying them for themselves. There's so much more game out there if they'd just give it a shot.
@@emotionaljonxvx it's a real shame, because I was vaguely aware of the invasion mechanic at first, and then all of a sudden it became the sole reason I even boot up the soulsgame to begin with. IT's because of the Souls multiplayer that PVP multiplayer became something I genuinely care about-- because "So long as there's two people put in the same room, someone is bound to ask 'who's stronger?'"
Invaders: We cant win!
Co-opers: We cant beat Invaders
People doing both: You guys both suck, git gud!
Exactly
I'm an invader I can haz W
I just want a rune arc
@breaklpoint1008 I want to purchase something with my rune arcs. Haven't been able to collect any for a long time now
Amen
This is basically everything your philosophy is condensed into one, concise video. Thank you.
My experience with ER has been unlike anything I’ve ever experienced in gaming. I played a couple months after it came out with some friends. We fought tree sentinel then ran all the way to castle Morne. After this I didn’t play again. Idek why it didn’t catch my eye the first time I played. Picked it back up about 8 months ago and haven’t put it down since. I did go back and play all the fromsoft titles I could just so I could get that experience. For PvP/invasions I’ll never forget the time I was convinced by an invader to get into PvP. They were doing back steps had crazy movement and was hitting me with things I didn’t know was possible with a sword. To make it even better he killed me by using quick step then got a back stab on me. Since then I haven’t turned back and have tried my hardest damn near every day to get to that level of invading redman was at. On another note im on Xbox and it seems to be a more casual/less-lively than pc/ps. Sometimes I wish I had those systems for a more tight community. I’ll stop yapping. Thanks for reading. Stay strong strugglers🫡
I swear to god, if the dlc wont let me invade on the name of the Noxians i will.... Not stop playing the game, but play it angry >:(
We really need covenants back. It's crazy just how shallow the multiplayer feels without the greater lore connections and flavors.
@@emotionaljonxvx i mean they were adding a shit ton of new weapons, they gotta make some covenants rewards
@@yaniobithey dont have to. and maybe there is a reason we cant align ourselves with the principles of others. maybe we oughta find our own.
@@Crit-Multiplier THEN ADD FUCKING CLANS OR SMTH PLEASE 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Hold up thats kinda cool concept, "everything and everyone is fucked up, so ill do it myself"
I never got to experience covants so i hope they come back. @@emotionaljonxvx
Another great video. But im concerned the people who need to hear this either wont see it or won't watch with an open mind.
Yeah, that's pretty much guaranteed. It's okay, though. If nothing else, people can use the video to help them whenever they get into it with people who hate invasions.
Crazy how seamless co-op can handle 100+ players but fromsoft servers can’t handle 6 for some reason reason
Literally I make this point all the time on my own channel , a neck beard in his moms basement did it before multi million dollar fromsoft 💀 imagine being out done at your own job by Dorito fingers
I am a reformed ganker invasions provided 700 hrs of content 👌 I love them
More of this kind of player please
I enjoy invasions but I can't blame anyone for hating it. The reason why is very simple.
It is the dynamic of power. Invaders tend to be very good at the game and those being invaded are not. And so it becomes predatory in nature. A lot of invaders just want fodder.
PvPers tend to have invested more time into the game when a lot of casuals one-and-done these games. So when you get an invader like ChaseTheBro its like "yeah no shit I lost". No, you didnt put up a fight and no you didnt stand a chance. Oh boy, cant wait to do that again!
PvPers also have YEARS of experience with these games -some since Demon Souls. And even if you've beaten the game several times your PvE skills really don't translate to PvP. It's a totally different beast. And it takes a lot of time an commitment to "git gud" at PvP. A lot of getting your shit kicked in.
BUUUUUT that's when invasions get fun. Because now you DO stand a chance. And it's not a one-way fight. The biggest problem with invasions is you can't skill-based match.
I love invasions!!! I miss 6-players!! Souls PVP shall not die!! We are Invaders!!
I've made so many great memories while invading. Many of them take place just in Limgrave. There's everything from invading a weaponless host trading prawn for golden centipedes with all blues and reds coming by in his world to getting killed by PvE in stormveil while I picked up a gift from a coop player.
But my favourite story was one time when I invaded three players around one of the cliff areas with gravestones on the side. All of them started taking their clothes off and punching me, so naturally I did the same. We started having a drawn out brawl for around 15 minutes, where we even started getting better using backstabs, kicks and pretty much everything else from the limited barefist moveset.
But despite landing many backstabs, fully charged R2s and doing good dps for being in a 1v3, I was gradually losing. So I started going towards the cliffside with the obvious intention of bringing them all to a swift end. And so we started ineffectively trying to push each other off. After brawling for some more, I managed to get one of them to fall onto one of the sideways gravestones where he was stuck. And he had to watch me fighting his buddies, who were now much more careful. Because of that I jumped on the gravestone myself to finish him off and heighten the stakes, but I had to flee further down the gravestones, since the others followed me immediately.
On the next gravestone I managed to make one fall to his death and then found myself in a situation where the last two camped out the edge of the next gravestone. Since I had gone so far and clearly was no coward, I jumped over and was almost pushed off. In the next 10 seconds I kicked the second phantom off and the host made me fall to my own death right after.
I didn't win, but I'm proud to say I could participate in this magnificent competition.
What I love about invading in every one of these games is creating a unique character and kicking ass with it! It’s so fun, and it’s so great to fight people in the beautiful locations all over ER
As always, great video. I’ve also thought about how this could be the last invasion game. Even if it’s not it’s at least 4 years. It’s sad.
The trend invasions has been going on really since the start has always been down or away from us. Honestly the only thing that really gave me hope was lords of the fallen. Not because it was amazing on the whole but because the invasion systems were truly good.
You can invade anyone, anywhere, anytime. No level or weapon matchmaking. There is no traversing fog walls once an invader is there, they are there till dead.
It’s sad to think, but the future for invaders may not be From.
I wish I could get into Soulslikes but they always lack some essential element that makes it feel too different. I haven't tried the new Lords of the Fallen but maybe I should give it a shot. I think the game is really ugly and it doesn't seem like it has a lot in the way of compelling worldbuilding but if invasions dry up in From games I may have no other choice.
@@emotionaljonxvx I’m right there with you, souls likes never really scratch the same itch but I’m just lost as to what else to do
@@James_Rustled I just started putting all my energy into RUclips and TTRPGs where I can customize my experience. It's gonna be a long wait till the next game and who knows if it'll be any better.
Invasions are my favorite gameplay system, and the fact that every time I go in it could be anything from an impossible boss fight against laser beam jesus and his goons to an honor duel on top of a ruined church is downright magical.
Thanks for helping people remember to be positive about invasions. The problems are real, but I’ve still put in 1000 hours of mostly bad red man has good times.
I get caught up in my own frustrations and honestly, these videos are a way for me to snap myself out of a rut. Elden Ring makes me quite mad quite often but at the end of the day, I just wanna invade. Writing it all down helps to put it in perspective and think of the good.
Your videos are a treasure that with time I’m sure the whole community will know
I wish both NPC Invasions and PvP Invasions were tied to having an active rune arc, like being embered in DS3.
Yeah, it'd be great if you could get invaded while having a great rune active. But I guess that would gate invasions till post Godrick and I'd miss Stormveil invasions.
@@emotionaljonxvx You can use a rune arc without a great rune equipped for a Max HP buff, I think they'd just need to make rune arcs a bit more available in the early game for this style of invasion.
@@_BBAGG_ That's a fair point. I never even think to use rune arcs without a great rune just because I never have any at that stage of the game. Funny how scarce and obscure they can be.
Nice little essay. Keep up the good work!
Hey, thanks. You too!
Ive been clickbaited like this before...
And I'd do it again! And perhaps a third time...but that would be it.
From day one of release I have invaded, while my friends where busy reading how to create builds fast and basically spoiling the game for themselves. I was covering myself in the blood of the new born. My level 15 character named "friendly stranger" invaded on cooldown for day's/week's on end. Level 15 +3 weapons she can only used weapons enquired naturally in game. she made it all the way to Commander Niall and her story progression stopped maybe one day she will beat him. These day's she dresses as mushroom hiding waiting to pounce.
We waited a long time from DS3 to ER and it was worth it for those few months of unrelenting carnage. Do not be sad a day will come again when you can baith morning to night in the blood of your friends.
on PC is mostly issue with connection i dunno what the pveers do with their internet or perhaps messing with software to throttle their connections to avoid invaders from invading them. sometime i manages to connect to them and they just cannot be hit and they can hit me.
if not those it was literal latency that takes ages for my hits to arrive on their end. I've already playing since release i don't have to experience the invasions or being invaded again. newcomers certainly can go try low level invasions, but tbh i had just enough shit show for elden ring invasions especially the hostility on the host's side is more prevalent than the one on invader's side.
I play on PC as well and have a pretty identical experience. If I'm taking my best guess, it's that PC optimization of the game in general is pretty bad and all of the connection latency in P2P networking is system dependent, so when their PC of any spec has frame drops or just bad performance it compounds the latency.
As for the frustrations with Elden Ring, I get it too. I'm trying to get the most out of it and hoping against hope the DLC will change it in some surprising way, but I'm preparing myself for maybe never getting another way to play again.
@@emotionaljonxvx mine is sorta stuck on 40 fps overworld. something i had to get used to lmfao.
@@emotionaljonxvx PC matches you with anyone, the only online regions are japan and not japan. If you're not japanese, you will be matched against players on the opposite side of the globe like it's normal. Plus EAC literally adds like 80 ms of latency. Thats why pc latency feels so bad, it is.
@@illwillpress100 Those are good points too. I think the matching by anywhere is a thing on console too but I'm not sure, though EAC has made the experience a lot worse. I get disconnected when invading or summoning people frequently and despite using the same system as DS3, I have many, many more issues. EAC seems to be the culprit as I understand console players don't have the same sort of problems.
@@LyllianaofMirrah Oof, 40 fps is rough. I have a low power laptop that I'll run at like 640p to avoid lower than 60 fps.
For those new to invasions there was a covenant in dks1 called the gravelord covenant where you could curse other players worlds with black phantom enemies if they were in NG+. You in turn could be invaded by these players as hostile blues & you could also be invaded by dark wraith invaders. It’s thoughtful & inventive covenants like this that we need back for invasions to really flourish.
Bring Back Gravelords 2024
God if only everyone had your insight and wisdom to see both sides of the argument in ernest. I appreciate this video, I hope you continue to do more like it and I look forward to seeing more of your work in the future.
As someone that actually enjoy pvp (but more on the duelist side) I do like getting invaded in general, and even tried going for a solo run with taunters tongue always on but due to the map size of elden ring in the open areas and the constant backtracking for questlines and areas with non linear progressions I eventually got tired of constantly turning it on after each grace teleport and forgot to use it speacially bc most part of the pve is you running with torrent and ignoring a lot of shit.
The PVE in Elden Ring is something I find so frustrating for exactly those reasons. It's like it doesn't want me to engage with anything. It's such a different feeling to be compelled to just ride around on the horse and never touch the combat.
I did not like invasions when I first started playing ER.
I basiclly knew that when I was invaded I was going to die most of the time. It felt oppresive at times.
After a while I started to get better and it became more likely that I was going to win.
At some point, I started to appriciate and enjoy invasions as part of the game.
It was like a random boss fight.
I still dont invade myself, but Im happy they are in the game.
I love every moment of my PvP experience and accept its flaws as it’s arguably the most casual multiplayer experience around. I’ll suggest y’all do the same, don’t take it too seriously just enjoy the fact that you get to put your own badass character against other people. That’s why these games are so loved by the PvP community.
I had to invasions for the bloody fingers test and I just went back to my game world cause I know how frustrating it is to get invaded when you're just trying to chill with your friends and fight bosses
I honestly think only making hosts with co-operators invadable was a mistake (and this is as someone who’s never tried invasions); because the pool of hosts with co-operators is relatively small compared to the wider playerbase it’s pretty much inevitable that you’ll get invaded every time you summon, which feels so much less fun than if they were rare enough to take you by surprise
Plus invaders pretty much always being up against teams (and often gankers at that) weeds out the more casual / chill invaders for tryhards that can actually stand a chance against a dedicated gank
For context I’ve been playing through the game co-op with two of my friends recently, and some invasions have honestly been pretty fun, but it’s so frustrating being invaded pretty much every time we summon / get summoned, especially now that we’re at meta level ranges (~125 to 150) because nearly every invader is running a tryhard meta build and just runs straight in to attack while we’re standing around emoting to see if they’re chill; but it doesn’t surprise me that most invaders are like that, because against gankers you’d have to be
Tldr: I think if invasions were less frequent, and invaders weren’t constantly up against teams, it’d be a more fun experience on both sides
Topic request: Looking into the pros and cons of meta. How does a meta even become a meta? Why does it do that? What is the allure of meta? Who is deciding this (I've never been a part of some council of players who decides what is meta and what not) and based on what? How come it's prone to popping up in every game? And how does it link up to player bases becoming quite orthodox in their thinking of a game and how it can be played? Why is meta thinking so oppressive and antagonistic to not following it and in essence thinking outside the box? But if outside the box thinking bests the meta regularly enough, then it's quick to be absorbed and treated like 'tis is how it's always been.
In some games, due to lack of foresight during designing, it meta can be very oppressive. Others, its more lines drawn in the water and is just one viable thing among many. Personally, I don't much care for metas. But I do note they seem to hold enormous sway in just about every game despite being only agreed upon notions where most don't even agree to it, but it gets imposed onto them. With real consequences (for example: when a bunch of random players apparently decided it would be meta to play Elden ring pvp at the 125 - 150 level range for...reasons???) to everyone.
I kind of find it also odd, assuming most players are either employed or have other obligations of the sort, where this meta thinking and aligned orthodoxy comes from. Because if someone is going to be at the office in a very rigorous and hierarchically structured environment, why then do the same to their hobby in the form of gaming? Making it instead of fluid and creative rigorous, with the meta thinking seeming to shun thinking outside the box and only embracing conversion or conforming to it. Which can be incredibly anti-fun and seems to correlate perceived efficiency with fun. Noting here that the differences are not that staggering, and each ought to play to their own.
In Elden Ring, with so much room to choose from, I find it especially odd we got the (as usual) quite orthodox meta think as a factor influencing quite a lot of things. I'd love to see you take a crack at the topic and see if you can begin to unravel what makes it tick some. As I got no clue why and where it comes from, as I don't subscribe to the meta orthodoxy thinking and generally just ignore other players trying to tell me how I ought to play my game in just about every game. Only to always without fail encounter a hostile reaction, where meta conformists will correlate not playing by the meta as playing with the worst options in an attempt to using snide remarks to verbally browbeat others into joining the meta orthodoxy.
I think that'd be a pretty interesting topic. My initial thoughts are just about how the meta establishes community agreements to adhere to conventional styles of play based around what is good or what makes sense. I think in Souls games a lot of it comes from the need to be close in level to get matched, and where the power scaling of those games reaches it's initial peaks / natural slowdown.
I'll add it to my list, thanks for the suggestion!
gestures are for duels. invasions are for invasions
I'm not sure what has changed, but I remember the days of playing ds2 and 3 and I'd never really run into a player that didn't try to at least attack the boss when they summon me for help. I've ran into to many people that summon me, and then expect me to solo their boss while they stay far away. These people have no drive to learn, no passion to improve. They just want to say "hey I beat the hard game. I'm cool, right?" making the game more casual friendly has just made it worse for the people that love everything included with fromsoft souls games. Peopl like the prestige of saying they beat the game, but they'll use the most braindead methods to achieve it and then think they're good at the game. Invaders quickly show them, they're not as good as they think.
What they don’t understand is most invaders lose.
Ds2 had the right idea with constant invasion other than in the hub area it increased invader response time and made it so blues actually had purpose and would have been great for elden ring even with out the need to summon co-op for host they just needed to limit it to 1v1 if no co-op unless a blue gets summoned as its not counted as co-op.
Though they could still put in areas you can invade from but can't be invaded similar to what the npc from Blood Borne was doing with his locked room, they still have to fetch their souls and risk getting invaded i had a community based on this in ds3 but ppl wouldnt stay at the recommended lvl cap i set so it never got to actually work (or to see if it would actually work)
Soul level was the only problem with it and can stay gone
I loved invasions, and i hate to see how bad it has become even though they were so close to an actual good system, but they got scared and didn't learn anything from their previous titles and experiment to make invasions actually good to play and the loss of covenents from ds3 was a huge loss in elden ring as they all would have been perfect
But this is my take on how to fix elden rings pvp
If future titles feature invasions like how they are in ER, I 100% advocate for their complete removal. DS3 was peak pvp and it’s gone.
Its not that I dont like invasion and PvP. I dont like the huge power ceiling and how broken you can get in elden ring though which makes me glad that solo invasions dont exist. Their was broken stuff in older games too but not as bad as what ER offers. As such I slipped ER PvP and wont be trying again even after all the nerfs they've done. I say that as a once pretty good DS3 Duelist, when the game was more balanced it was fair to be solo invaded. Not so much here...
I get it and I share your frustrations. I really don't like how over the top a lot of ashes and spells have gotten. Even still, I'm of the mind that there's fun to be had if you're willing to put in the work but I'd be lying if I said it felt as good as any previous game.
I wish Elden Ring was different and better in so many ways. I'm just even more worried that it represents a new direction for the series as a whole and might be the last time we even get invasions. I just want people to know what it's like as-is if they've never done it, and to give it as many chances as they can if they have the interest.
@@emotionaljonxvx Well if we want a game that can bring back solo invasions they'll have to make it less accessible then ER was with how over the top builds can get. More like DS3 balancing where magic is strong but a fraction of the power ER offers. It'd also have to "Simplify" a lot of mechanics to make the scales more balanced for both sides. With the success of ER I doubt they will go back to a more linear and less difficult experience though, they'll probably wanna take in the money and go even more over the top. Hoping I'm wrong but it's probably gonna happen.
@@celiafrostborn Yeah, I'm not holding my breath at this point but I know at least some part of the FromSoft team cares about PVP. I just hope they listen to the community and use their resources to make it work for everyone. There's got to be a better middle ground and if anyone can work it out, it'd be them.
I once got invaded by "Father" then he left my world 😂
I really hope they dont remove the multyplayer cause the combat in this game is just next level
I love imagining this video happening in a semi modern souls world where the undead/tarnished exist and invaders are an abused minority, and you're an invader who, anonymously, makes these videos to seek recognition, understanding and acceptance for his people :D
btw, I think a low requirement "Vow of Silence" type spell that disables projectile based spells and ashes will greatly benefit Elden Ring pvp if FromSoft doesn't wanna balance everything XD What do you think?
I think Vow of Silence is really great and wish it was included in the game in some form. I don't mind spellcasting being very strong on its own but when you throw it into a 2v1 or 3v1 scenario where it's best asset is that it basically works like a gun, it can get old fast.
I'd love a way to build around denying spellcasting. Maybe in the DLC.
As much as I hate invasions, I never wanted them to leave the from soft games. It makes the world more alive.
low level invasions :
either invading a bunch of players that are all on your level and are noobs, so its an easy, unrewarding win
or you invade a passive lightroll host with max level phantoms gank that will give you 200k runes each but winning is unlikely since they 4ex. bleed you with ONE hit.
not much left inbetween nowadays.
They should bring in solo invasions so invaders can just deal with eachother instead. That should save their pvp.
On par, but with multiple hours more of experience and multiple game beating runs than actual new players. Totally on par.
This is a great video, well said bro 🙏
I recently tried invasions around level 1-10, another around 30, and another around 137 and lose most of them and got kinda frustrated and felt helpless but havent done as much practicing/minmaxing to be as capable of winning as possible and im definitely average at pvp. I’ll probably try different builds, keep an open mind and give it another go.
(Never tried invading with bows or spells so ill try that, might be easier too)
The PvP in ER is just so watered down imo. No 6 player limit,no getting invaded solo,BS fishing is almost non existent & very few combos.
It's a bad situation, to be sure. I'm trying to make the most of it but there's no part of me that isn't absolutely livid at the removal of 6 player PVP in particular. It's such a nonsense move that has hurt me so badly.
When i get over being t bagged ill become a blue And when i spawn in I run uo to the red getting ganked and remove all my armor and let him refill his juice. One time I came in as a blue in caelid and a red was trying everytning he could agaisnt a taunting host locked up in the horse jump tower like a friggn princess. He was droping rainbow stones and gesturing like an ass. I crept up to the red and dropped him a jar canon and ammo, he took one shot and knocked the host down killing him. The way the red whipped around and looked at me then starting pumping his fist was one the best moments ive had iin any souls game. These games are truly special and as players we are not special, only capable of doing special things.
Love being a hindering blue. Tossing a red a jar cannon is a thing of brilliance.
I think the thing i dislike most about invasions is that there arent very good rewards for cooperators. Some runes? Alright, sure. But i could also kill 6 billion toadmen. (In fact, i have. Quality build all softcaps, no level cap, just use everything.)
If a rune arc was the reward, better. >> If our great runes would both work and be lost, even better still! It could give real stakes to being a cooperator apart from lost time. Maybe then being cooperator or hunter wouldnt be the default.
Hope Shadow DLC has more interesting great runes, cuz right now i'm never dropping my rally from Malenia's
The lack of incentives is hard. Being able to use invasions (or any multiplayer, really) as a way to reward players with rare items like starlight shards or raw meat dumplings would be a welcome addition. Without anything of value, you pretty much just invade to invade. Makes it feel less exciting and lacks a sense of progress. Instead, you're just draining resources that you then have to stop invading to go grind back. Not a great cycle.
Oh hell yeah. Yknow, if the reward were random among rune arc, starlight shard, and meat dumpling, that would be a great incentive. Or perhaps unique incentives. Since Starlight Shards can't be farmed (as far as i know). Rewarding invasions with something that is unfarmable otherwise is a great motivator, and presents a convenient excuse for when people question the purpose of engaging with the system.
P.s. I dont think we are in danger of invasions not appearing in future fromsoft titles like this. I think the main reason other games don't have invasions is lwss stigma and more economics. Network and multiplayer features are hard to implements, and servers can have much higher costs that expected. Fromsoft has the resources to keep it around, especially because it keeps the player base engaged between longer development cycles
@@SocraTetris I like that you do get rune arcs from winning invasions but I wish they had more purpose, especially in invasions. I rarely use them at this point so they're hardly a reward.
things i hate as an invader input drops and terrible spawns things i love as an invader Yes
I love luring and getting invaded. I solo lure. I'm a on mission to get to max level without any dupes. it's been going on for 2 years now. Luring is literally the fastest way to get runes and level
I usually invade at meta level, I've been using some low level builds as well (60 - 90) but I'm mostly at meta level at around 138.
I really like invading to be honest, I wish the people knew that not everyone is there trying to one-shot everyone and "RUIN THEIR GAMEPLAY", I invade, I say hello to everyone most of the time, try to understand if they're chill or they're trying to gank me (which, unfortunately, has a good probability at high level), see if I can hangout with them like a new friendly invader that just wants to meet players...
I really wish there were incentives to play PvP, invaders and co-opers would be more inclined to play and we would all see more activity (And maybe we would all like to play PvP a bit more), I hope the DLC will bring something more interesting (or merchants)
Elden Ring really missed the mark on incentivizing invasions. I hope the DLC will bring something but it's not looking good so far.
@@emotionaljonxvx I think there's really no incentive to play PvP at all, not only invasions.
Even Colosseum would've been interesting but it has the same problem as the classical PvP, it has no purpose at all.
I like souls game but what keeps me playing are the online interactions, I don't care about going NG+7 on my builds but I know there are players out there still running NG with different builds over and over
If invasions are removed in Elden Ring 2 (a game that is without question in Bandai Namco's pipeline), co-op is getting removed as well. When that happens, it will be the most satisfying thing to see those who whined about invasions start to complain that they can't play the sequel with their friends.
You made your bed, now you must sleep in it.
This video hurt my heart man. The thought of these games losing what made them so special makes me worry about the future of from’s games. I know when Miyazaki inevitably leaves or retires we’re gonna get more ds2 s.
I’m not a very open gamer I stick with these games because there’s nothing else out there that makes such well polished original fantasy concepts like Miyazakis games. So if they ever go down hill my gaming might dwindle.
I really hope someday fromsoft can get their shit together and quit repeating the same damn mistakes they make for every game in the pvp department.
Part of me wants to think I'm being ridiculous and that they'd never abandon invasions or PVP, but then I think about just how diminished it is in Elden Ring and how unnecessary taking down the player limit and invasion zones was. I pretty much only play these games and I only keep playing them for the multiplayer. Without those features, I'd probably stick to TTRPGs at that point.
The future is uncertain.
Invasions make for an interesting and exciting experience. The only thing I dislike about em is the matchmaking system, making it take forever at a higher level. You can some days get going in minutes. Others it takes an eternity and a half. Same problem for all other forms of multiplayer and co-op play. The matchmaking system seems to really not like higher level people. I'm the sort who dislikes making multiple characters and sticks with one. It's annoying to feel like level ups come with a punishment because of how it negatively impacts the availability of multiplayer and co-op due to bad matchmaking.
It felt a lot more sensible in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls when the whole idea was that you just don't know what's happening but with how expansive and varied Elden Ring's progression is, it really would have been nice if they expanded the matchmaking ranges and actually gave people easily accessible information about how it works.
It's identical to Dark Souls 3 which makes me think they just didn't bother with it, the effects of which can be felt more and more as the game ages and the player base dwindles.
125-150 is meta stick with that and you'll see a lot of people invasion matchmaking ranges matter a lot sadly but 168 seems to be active too from what i recall?
@@shinren_ Why and who arbitrarily decided that was the meta range anyway? Just curious. I'm the sort that usually looks at a meta and throws it over my shoulder to the side because I don't much like to play how others play, but how I play. As such, I never care for metas. This one seems especially silly from my point of view, so I am curious where it came from and most of all why.
@@videocrowsnest5251 from my understanding its to maximise connectivity between players and allow urself to make a creative build. People in elden ring now go to 139 so that they can connect to 125 and 150
Personally I like getting invaded both prepared and unprepared. The invasion mechanic itself was better in the older games though (bc covenants and solo invasions). Elden Ring pvp still feels good when the stars align. It feels like there's so many different builds and tools to experiment with. I say when the stars align because my problems with ER invasions are due to factors that are outside of my control.
Those being player build/gear choice, the glitches, and the latency issues. Player gear choice, because I seem to usually get matched with the same handful of builds, glitches because of things like the funny chainsaw or the fire's deadly sin glitch as examples, and latency because no matter how good my connection is I can't seem to play around it. Last one could definitely chalk up to a skill issue. If I have some latency shenanigans happening I am almost certain to lose because I straight up just haven't figured out yet how to compensate and play around it.
I'm definitely going to be playing before the dlc comes out, I still need to remake most of my builds on PC. Was on PS4 previously. I've been doing a little DSR pvp lately, it makes me think ER isn't so ridiculous in a lot of ways. It reminded me of how my old mindset used to be, and it was mostly all fun and games in pvp back then because it was too broken to take remotely serious, and I liked learning things about pvp/fighting from observing my invaders even if it meant dying. How I went from that to getting easily frustrated at stuff that's way lesser than certain DS1 shenanigans is beyond me. Hoping to keep this mindset going for when I come back to ER pvp because I genuinely have fun experimenting with builds, tactics and invading shenanigans.
I appreciate your fighting spirit! Stay strong!
TBH I've played the entirety of the game, other than the first few minutes before I looked for the network setting, offline because I refuse to be some victim of nonconsensual pvp/ganking. Nor will I ever allow myself to be some random victim in some gamers video for the purpose of them getting paid to gank people. Glad you enjoy the mechanic, you didn't change my mind though, it's still just ganking people. I dealt with enough of that over the decades of online gaming that I have no interest in dealing with gankers ever again tbh.
Shiiii, I literally hop in multiplayer to screw over invaders in any way possible. That’s what the coliseum is for.
Huh, I had no idea you could invade the colosseum
It took a long time for me invading through ds3 and then since ER’s release to be able to reliably beat a lot of types of players and parties, and it just hit me last Tuesday evening that almost all of the difficulty and frustration of invasions has gone away to the point that invading actually can be a low blood pressure weeknight experience. It’s insane to conciously catalog all the little improvements and techs you not only learn but commit to muscle memory that can turn every invasion into just a nice brain workout; much closer to the “player controlled strong enemy” that was intended. Making builds is a really enoyable roleplaying experience to the point I honestly don’t understand why people make new characters if they aren’t going to be used for the invasion system in some way. I think Saint Riot is absolutely right that invasions are the true end game.
Saint Riot is always right, even when he's just howling about naming special moves after foods he knows. Especially when he's naming moves after foods he knows.
Honestly i find it kinda sad purely because the invasion system in elden ring is one of my only issues with it but its an unbelievably massive issue. Simply put i feel no fear of an invader and i have no reason to nor will i ever in elden ring it feels like in the past souls games they could be a genuine threat but in elden ring they're more of a joke and a free refill of flasks
I’ve been an Invader tryhard since ds3 release, I miss the good ol days. Elden ring is still fun tho, I hope the dlc is cool
It ain't what it used to be but we have to make the best of it. Maybe one day we'll get something better than ever.
youre the most articulate invader ive watched. truly a great experience. not as good as invasions but... pretty close
man i hope i was drunk when i insulted john the severed.. again, my apologies and ty for your insights.
We move forward, better than we were. We look back only to see the distance we've traveled.
I love invasions,if they take them out I’m pretty sure I’ll be out as well
I can accept all the advantages stacked against me when I’m invade and I’m all for it
I hope they never leave,I don’t care like I’m ok with invaders getting nerfed from now but I hope and pray they never take invasions out of the formula because to me invasions are the whole formula
Yeah, if they remove invasions I can't imagine keeping with the series in anything close to the same capacity. It'd be nothing less than devastating.
I love invasions going all the way back to demons souls
I rarely invade myself but I'm always finding myself engaging with pvp in other ways
I enjoy being invaded, playing as the yellow monk in DES, gravelording in ds1, arenas in ds2 and Elden ring
Elden ring is my favorite fromsoft pvp due to the game mechanics and options, but I do agree with the problems you listed. I don't have hope they will address it either but they could surprise us
Like you said, I prefer to use my pvp powers for good, you might see me as a yellow because I enjoy helping people get through dungeons with the hope I will face an invader or two
Don't stop invading, if you do who would I have to defend against?
I hate invasions in ER because they suck and aren’t fun.
One of the few problems I had with what you said is that Capitalism IS anithetical to art.
It CAN be antithetical to art, just as every single other system can be. But putting it the way you did, it puts a bad mark on a system that CAN be good, AND bad. I'm not defending the system we currently have, which can, and does produce problems.
Capitalism is only bad and it can't be good. Anything positive that occurs under capitalism does so despite that system, not because of it.
But hey, I'm a communist.
@@emotionaljonxvx ohhh, I understand. Thank you for clarifying on that, I appreciate it. While I disagree, I understand why people would think that. have a good day my man.
And yes, i agree with you so far, i played elden blinded and ignoring most of the online Community, and now, when i see a magic spammer, Vike Lance, or whatever, for me it just a character Im fighting, not "ah this Kid using that or this" no its like, a chance to improve, and to win as an underdog, to defeat them and show them respect after that, so maybe they can change if they need it, unless they use what they use for fun and not cause "its meta"
most the time it was spam in meta level tbh
I definitely have a really bad habit of taunting my foes and not being respectful after winning, but usually only when I think they can handle it or when I feel they've been particularly rotten.
Not my best quality but sometimes I do like to be bad. Do as I say, not as I do.
@@emotionaljonxvxi mean its the natural reaction to taunt someone, i rarely do it, only if the other person is clearly playing to ruin others expirience.
But taunting other kind of players wont change what they are doing
@@yaniobi Oh certainly not and I try to resist the urge. On my newest (bad) build, just with how uphill some of the battles can be I get a little carried away.
@@emotionaljonxvx tbh, i tend to hit stuff irl Instead in shting on them
Works! 😃
While it's interesting to see the perspective of someone who really likes Elden Ring or Dark Souls PvP, it's just not for me and most likely never will be.
I don't want nor need PvP in my games, and I do not have the patience for people that behave poorly while doing so (don't think I didn't see that tea bagging in the video). A lot of this stems from people specifically praying on low level people that are most likely to be new to the game, as I recently went through every Souls game for the first time - Elden Ring was my first game too and that all meant that every invasion was a certain death for me, to such an extent that not even the most difficult bosses gave me such a level of hopelessness.
And the thing is, I did even try it a little bit in DS3 as I learned of the covenant rewards, but my success rate was so miserable that I had more luck just farming the items outright from the scarce PvE drops. Honestly over all the games I can't remember ever winning a fight, and at such a point just saying "git gud" isn't helping.
I just want to play with my friends and be left alone otherwise. The games are hard enough as is and I'm appearantly not cut out for the PvP.
It takes time to get into invading and the tea bagging is just meant to be a gag. There's no such thing as an unqualified player who isn't cut out for invasions, as no one starts out good. I sincerely understand wanting to play with your friends and I get seeing invaders as little more than an intrusion and annoyance.
What I really want to get across is that there's no real fair or good way to invade, because it's all fair and it's all good. It's an incredibly robust part of the game and it adds so much more than it could ever impede.
That said, your experience is not invalid. The only real way to change or grow from that perspective is to actually try invading for an extended period of time and learn what makes them so great. It's not something you have to do, and it sounds like it's something you're less than interested in, but it's something I'd still encourage you to do.
Invading is something special but it's work. It can be hard to appreciate and harder still to fully embrace but it's worth it. If you think you can give it another shot, there's no time like the present. If not, maybe next time.
Thanks for the comment
Most enjoyable time I had with elden ring was before the whole map invasion I was rune level 60 dont remeber what level my gear was but I was cosplaying vyke and I got so many people with that war spike.
Vkye is such a cool character and since FromSoft saw fit to undercut his role, it's only fair that someone should take up the mantle in his place. After all, why else would he drop his gear?
I was one of those people that watched like all of chase’s invasions and loved it but was to scared to try cause I didn’t want to get bopped……tried it finally in elden ring, the worst pvp system in souls, and it was amazing. I couldn’t put it down and played constantly in arena 1v1’s and actually “got good”. Fromsoft has one of the most uniquely fun pvp systems that actually lets you fight nights and wizards and a mystical world. It’s nothing like it in 2d fighting games or even something like for honor lol. If they put 20% effort out of the 100% into the pvp for dlc people will not stop playing this game ever. It’s just so different
Yeah, it's funny that it would take comparatively so few resources to make the game last forever and yet they just won't take those last few steps. It's almost like they don't want to or, more realistically, like they just keep getting distracted by shiny new toys like the open world.
Honestly, I think we need to temper our expectations about DLC PvP...
MIyazaki has been uncharacteristically vocal about the DLC and what it's going to be like, and there's been little to no mention about about anything PvP related-such as covenants, invasion zones, or an overhaul to the current invasion mechanics like increased player counts.
This goes hand-in-hand with my disappointment about the NPC questlines. I was hoping the DLC was going to be a massive overhaul "Scholar of the First Sin" style, where they would revamp all the old and cut NPC questlines. But, it looks like they are not doing that, and the DLC area is going to be completely separate with its own NPCs and questlines to complete. Which is incredibly disappointing because i really wanted to see Kale, Asimi, Vyke, Melina, Sellen, and all the other quests reinstated or improved.
So, I don't count on the DLC bringing back the features of Dark Souls 3 PvP.
The nail in the coffin for me was learning why they ruined Elden Ring's invasions to begin with. I thought it was because they were lacking in time, or they wanted to try something different from DS3 that eventually didn't pan out. But, from what I heard, the current state of Elden Ring PvP was an intentional decision made to make the game more accessible to a wider range of players. And when you look back, it makes sense. MUCH of Elden Ring is designed to purposefully be more accessible-from Stakes of Marika all the way to Spirit Ashes.
Very disappointing. At this point, I'm not going to expect much from the DLC. I'm keeping my desires low and hoping to be pleasantly surprised. If I get good exploration, visceral bosses, and one or two emotional moments like Hewg or Melina, then I'll be satisfied.
Yeah, I don't really think the DLC is going to change anything other than bringing in more gear and more areas. I hope, but I am no fool. It'll be a lot of fun, I'm sure, but the idea that it'll address PVP in any way feels like a longshot for me. I just want people to try invading before the hype, to experience the end of the first era of Elden Ring.
My favorite part of being an invader is coming up with a fun name. My current name is “Tax Collector” but I’ve also considered “GLOBAL WARMING” and “Fire-Man”. I like to imagine the horror or curiosity of the hosts I invade at my character appearing in their world.
There’s also nothing like the adrenaline rush I get at the “invading another world” message or the memories I have of winning outnumbered in a creative way.
If they ever get rid of invasions, the pve isn’t enough for me to stay.
Yeah, Souls without PVP is a completely different sort of game in my mind. I feel bad that I've never been able to get into Sekiro but without character building and PVP it's just sort of not interesting to me, even if I know it's a great game.
After the last video, I tried invading some more. After the second one, I got private messages trash talking me after getting beat by two players spamming raduvias.
Got told I wouldn't survive a MW2 lobby.
The irony...
Yeah, that happens. The vitriol you can experience from PVE players is honestly the worst I've ever experienced. I used to be a ganker who would salt the shit out of invaders because I was convinced they were the bad guys but over time I learned my mistake.
Keep trying and don't give up, skeleton. When you win, you'll still get hatemail but you'll know the truth.
@@emotionaljonxvx Thanks! I'm not giving up but I was surprised about getting hate for losing a 2 v 1 at low level.
Although, I was in coop with them (randoms) as they were setting up their gank so I left and managed to invade them. I thought it would be a funny thing to do but they were pissed.
@@fredbyoutubing Honestly that can make it funnier. Whenever I get people really heated I know I'm doing something either very right or very funny. Or I'm just being the worst.
@@emotionaljonxvx Yeah, I figured they were looking for invaders so I was confused that they were mad at me invading. As if a coop player was part of their clan by default. I don't like ganking in coop so usually I just stay in their world to watch them fight and keep a slot taken so it's not a 3v1. I give the invaders better oidds.
I personally started playing Elden Ring a few weeks ago and I had to do a side quest where I had to invade people 3 times and that shit was a nightmare it took like over 10 minutes each to just get one invasion to work. Glad it’s only an optional thing but definitely one of the weaker aspects of the game in my opinion.
It's a little more complicated than it needs to be and Elden Ring hasn't handled it very well. The whole system is tied to character level and maximum level upgrade. You invade people who are relatively close to your character by those metrics so most people make builds to target a specific range.
It can be a ton of fun and it's worth the investment but I don't blame you for not loving how obtuse the introduction and mechanics can be.
Invasion has slowed down so much I've more or less stopped. I'll get back in the weeks just before the DLC
Hey, if we all go back now, it might speed up sooner. Then again, idk how many of us are regular hosts. I guess we take turns?
Ps4 Ds3 invasions still has lots of action on the weekend and holidays lol
Don't tempt me. I need to move on. I need to move forward. Please, I'm too weak to resist on my own!
You're welcome for coming to your clickbait :)
I’m not a fan of invading but I’ll watch
“ Lost “ and Chase the Bro “ play every day… personally I’m more into the LORE of Elden Ring and im a level 405 and still find myself finding new gear, new weapons or spells … the game is just so massive and pvp takes time away from discovering more imo
That's really interesting because I think all the time that the game is too massive and it takes time away from doing PVP. Funny how different sorts of playstyles can give you such different outlooks.
does Elden Ring even have invasions? since we can only fight pvp when we allow other players to join our world? I don't think they're even invasions anymore
it's not that I hate the invasion, it's just that the entire online aspect of ER is bad, I devoted over a hundred hours to pvp in ER and I didn't have a single memorable memory, nothing, emptiness, how is it possible that I can talk about random great interactions in DS1, 2, 3 but I can't say the same about ER, most of it was a waste of time, so few good fights and any other weird interaction
I feel your frustration. I mostly want people who hate invaders to give invading a try to gain some perspective, even if I think Elden Ring PVP is a far cry from Dark Souls 3.
@@emotionaljonxvx fq now I feel like a member of the AA Club or something, but thanks I guess
you make great content on YT, by the way
Meh maybe I’ll try invasions again but I’m not optimistic 🤷🏻♂️ The “get good” is pretty funny, I’m casual player and I can’t pretend to dedicate the time that some others have to hone their build and experience level. Play how you like ✌🏼
What is this song playing in the background at the start of the video i swear it sounds so familiar yet i don't know where its from.
King's Field IV - Dark Reality
@@emotionaljonxvx Thank you so much dude.
I will never enjoy invading or pvp from any souls game until they fix the net code. If I'm constantly getting hit by attacks I clearly avoided then there is no hope of finding any fun in that
The netcode is horrendous and it's a damn shame. Makes it feel a lot like fighting on a trampoline, but not in a fun or funny way. It still has its merits for me but I can't blame anyone for hating the inconsistency and hyperlag.
I enjoy invasions from both perspectives and quite frankly learning an appreciation for this is essential for true experience even with the big limitations of Elden Ring PvP compared to prior entries it’s still awesome to see invaders keeping the spirt alive mad respects to y’all!
I would have absolutely love to see 6 to 8 players in a single world and image some mad phantoms toss in there pure chaos & heaven to me!
I want Halo 3 8v8 big team battle!
@@emotionaljonxvx I was thinking about it and keeping legacy dungeons & catacomb etc those areas with 6 players but here is the catch in open world that will go to 8 total players.
It just sounds so fun to me exploring the world with your friends then you get Invaded by an single red but during that time chances of more are likely to appear reds & blues alike for both sides to create a true big team battle!!
My ideas might sound silly or crazy but that’s my imagination for fun more "the merrier is the saying"!
@@AudioPayload I think you're dead on that it would just be more fun. Would make it a lot more sensible to co-op in the open world.
From the perspective of a less skilled player. Dying to an invasion and putting yourself on the post-invade cd is an extremely annoyong exit point for when you decide you need help with anything that isn’t in a boss arena
When you realize that annoyance is the feeling in yourself thats holding yourself back... You will ascend. Use it as a tool and you will become stronger. The PVE is essentially the player invading the game world..
I love everything in this video
Haven't really invaded in a long while, but maybe it's time I brought back my stormveil invader...
Do it.
@@emotionaljonxvx it was a Maldron inspired one where I had a fire greatlance and would try to befriend the host only to blow up the fire barrels along the ramparts and in the courtyard area. Was good fun.
Sekiro was my first from software game and Elden Ring is my First software game with invasions. I did mostly just PvE stuff and seeing people complain about invasions and invaders complain about co-ops. I decide to try some TT in legacy dungeons and some Invasions as well just to see whats it like. While being invaded I can see how annoying it can become (especially if you are getting wrecked by the mobs atm when the invader shows up) but it does add some spice to the game flow. While being an invader I can see how annoying it can be to get 3v1 or 2v1 with spell spams from some high level co-ops but it is fun fighting multiple people at once, going through all types of terrian and level design, fighting different play styles and having to adapt to each person.
I have come to the conclusion that invaders are some whiny people. Like yeah complaining about dying at times when a host has level advantage+numbers advantage can seen being a baby. but how can some invaders go around saying "I always point down, throw shit at them, and tell them to git good" while also at the same time go "Why are they teabagging me :(" . I have seen some of these "Top Invaders" straight up cheat/exploits when there is some lag and then call the host/coopers shitters afterwards.
I don't really see them removing invasions anytime soon. Sure , it may be different from past games but if they didn't care about it why did they improve the functions of it in future updates?
Anyway, Best way to guess the future and see if they learn anything from Elden Ring is gonna be the DLC. Base on that we can assume what they learn from trying to create and open world dark souls game and future games.
I loved Invasions in Demons Souls and Dark souls 1 (I have hundreds of hours across them both, mostly pvp) then I just sorta realized how atrocious the netcode was for it, and how tacked on and generally shitty it makes them feel, on both sides of it, and it sorta just lost it's appeal, I pretty directly hit a point where I was invading and PvPing in the original Dark Souls and starting to realize that at least half the time the deciding factor in an invasion was just.....some form of lag or shitty netcode. I don't blame the games for not putting a bigger focus on this stuff, it's not the point of the game, it really IS a tacked on feature, but I just realized that winning or losing to another player typically wasn't that fun.....so I just stopped enjoying it as much, and stopped doing it as much. I don't want them to get rid of it or anything, I just don't care about it so much anymore.
In short, I don't hate WHAT invasions are, I just sort of hate HOW invasions are....if that makes sense.
Yeah, they're definitely a mess. I do think it's the sort of thing where a lot of general latency and the way the netcode processes can be learned (there are still extremes) and that helps to make it a lot more palatable. Assuming there's no egregious connection issue, even when the netcode is being laggy it can be relatively consistent.
I had a really hard time getting into Bloodborne PVP because everything is just a little bit delayed and it made me feel like I couldn't make sense of it. But after some practice and watching a few videos, I got into the rhythm and learned to compensate.
The system should just be better though. It's a fantastic idea and it doesn't get proper attention.
@@emotionaljonxvx Oh it for sure can be learned, and to me I think that was sort of where the problem came in. It's fine to have to learn the mechanics of a game to play them effectively, but when you have to learn how to manipulate an external technical issue with the game, it becomes less enjoyable to engage with. That was really where I started hitting the wall in invasions.
The concept of forcing your way into another players game to disrupt it or have that done to you is really fun. But when I would invade people in the traditional sense (not in a zone that was "marked" for PvP) I started to find that I was winning, not because I outsmarted the player I invaded, but because I HAD learned how to work with the janky netcode, and the player who hadn't learned was at a natural disadvantage, which sure fine, it CAN be learned, but in my opinion it's not something that you can fault someone for NOT learning naturally because it's not really a part of the game, it's just a byproduct of something that is poor about the game, and because of that, it's naturally just less fun, because I can't without absurd levels of autism, tell players to "git gud" at learning how to manipulate or work within the shitty netcode of a game to improve their performance in what is essentially a side aspect of that game (one that in the past was sort of randomly forced upon them, most of the time without them even realizing it was a thing) without feeling a bit like a spaz.
So instead I just accepted it for what it was, hoped it would maybe be improved in the future, but it never really was, so it just sort of remained something that didn't feel worth engaging with, and I feel like it would be worth more if it was more solidly implemented, but as it stands, while I agree with your points around why it's a cool idea and for sure wish it was a more core feature, to me, that's all it ever really remained in From games, a cool idea that was never implemented on a level that helped it live up to it's potential.
It's why I also understand people who don't want to have to deal with it at all period, because even if they are biased against PvP in general, there is too much wrong with what is there to warrant the argument for, over the argument against, no matter how much I wish that wasn't the case.
They need to give us higher player count tbh . 4 player is stupid
Yeah, it's painful. I long for the big fights of yore.
@@emotionaljonxvx you and me both
Invasions are a way for bullies to relieve stress and harass other people who want to play pve only.
Try invading for yourself. Go in without malice and give people a fight you feel is fair. Be the invader you'd want to be invaded by.
Invaders can be bullies, absolutely. But they don't have to be. The mere presence of an invader isn't inherently negative. Give it a try for yourself and see how you feel about PVE players on the other end. There's a lot more nuance than you might think.
@@emotionaljonxvx Actually I did it in ds3 but only for quest progression to get some gear. It wasn't fun, since the host instantly activated flight and godmode and one hit me. That happened quite often.
Not very fun.
Bold of you to assume the DLC is going to change anything about invasions
Yeah, I didn't mean it like that. Just that people will have new toys and new metas and all that. Not that the DLC is going to otherwise improve invasions in any way, just that it'll be different because of new content.
While I do enjoy the multiplayer in Elden Ring is all its forms I'm doing a Taunters Tongue play though at the moment as a solo host and it's really fun. I'd recommend giving that a go if you're not a fan of the 2v1 or 3v1 scenarios and want something a little more chill and closer to a classic Souls experience. It's a really nice time.
A little annoying that I keep getting bodied and running out of Furlcalling Finger Remedies though but such is life. 😂
The TT ain't perfect but it's something. Makes you really appreciate basic progress when you're constantly beset on all sides.
I just started a level through pvp character!
Oh how i hate invasion. I wish they were better
Im so-so with invasions if i can actually get them to work, but nobody seems to even be online anymore, except for a few gank squads.
With the DLC it'll come back in full force for at least a month or two. In the meantime, try some different level brackets. I can find pretty steady activity levels 10-40 but the higher up I got the fewer and farther between they become.