10MM vs .40S&W!....How Close Are They? Federal Premium HST Ammo Test!
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- Testing some Federal Premium HST self-defense ammo in 10mm and .40S&W. How much difference is there? Heavy clothing ballistic gel test using a Glock 20 and Glock 22!
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Folks, can we just take a moment to acknowledge that Tools is the hardest working man in the gun content biz? I haven't even watched this video yet, but he is out there, cold or heat, running endless tests. He listens to the viewers (Ex.:switched to denim). Setting all that up, buying all the mats and ammo, doing all the clean up then editing has got to be a ton of work. Let's get him some thumbs up alright?
You forgot... he's sexy AF too!
Really appreciate that! Just walked in the door from another day of testing some new tools.😎👊 Appreciate you, bigtime!
Not to mention the new radar that thing is awesome
Acknowledged, your honor!!!!!!
Agreed 100 %
When the world news sucks and everything seems too damn complicated I love to get back to the basics and watch some good old fashioned ballistic tests!
Hell yeah 😂
Amen 🤛👍
Strange how it turned out - the 10 mm found new life as bear defense while the 40 S&W fizzled out in law enforcement. I don't see why Tools & Targets does not have 200k subscribers by now. Thanks for another great video!
It shouldn’t have fizzled out. Accountants killed it. 9mm is just so much more economical especially when you are buying thousands of rounds for a large police or sheriff’s department.
Thank you sir. Appreciate that.😎👊
@@bryanpropp2179 the other issue was low qualification scores. Some people just could not handle the recoil of the .40 as well as others. So the agencies switched to the less powerful 9 mm.
the reason i got 10mm, bear defense.
@@PassivePortfoliosGiven the recruits they have, it makes total sense. Better to hit with a 9, than miss with a 40
I prefer 40 over 10m and 9m.
That’s some great ammo.
😎👊
40 isn’t even close to real 10mm
@@jadenbrodeur1907you clearly don’t know shit about guns or ballistics’ 40 is literally a shortened 10 mm…
@@Kfettiiihe’s referring to what 10mm was intended to be loaded to, not the watered down 10mm we have now. 10mm was originally intended to be a 200gr bullet at 1250fps, whereas most commercial 10mm is now 180gr at 1050 which is pretty much what 40 S&W does, which is why 10mm is the parent cartridge of the 2.
10mm came first, was too powerful for fbi agents to qualify with. They reduced the loading, realized they had a lot of case volume unused and S&W shortened the case and called it 40 S&W
@@CorvZ061 Col Cooper originally wanted a 200gr @ 1100. Believe it was Norma that pushed it harder.
Federal HST always seems to have the most impressive expansion of any defensive handgun ammo. Also, .40 S&W is definitely not "short and weak"!
U got that right neither caliber is weak they both rock the ballistic gel when they impact it and they both can expand something vicious.9mm is bare minimum for self defense.380 is considered minimum to most people but to me it just isnt cutting it but any gun is better than none.
40 “Superior and Wicked”
I tested 10mm and 40 HST's recently myself and the 165 grain 40 actually expanded bigger than the 200 grain 10mm
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.40s&W really shines at the 155 and 165 grain out of a pistol.
sometimes slower bullets actually expand more in gel and i dont know why that is but ive seen it a bunch with the same round in a shorter and longer barrel. sometimes the short barrel will penetrate further or expand better its odd
From luckygunners data some of the 180gr bullet open up bigger than the 155 or 165gr in 40S&W. You can see the same with the 230gr 45 ACP. With modern bullet technology velocity is less important. It seems like its depends more on bullet design.
Most 10mm factory loads are fairly disappointing. Especially since 40 S&W is way more available and in many different loadings. 10mm will have a place in my heart, but only when I run Corbon or Underwood through it. Good presentation. Cheers
Thank you sir.😎👊
Learn how to hand load and u I promise 10mm is better than 40 I'll kiss your ass if it ain't.
10mm hot loads!
Try civil defense, underwood extreme penetrators, buffalo bore.
To me those are real 10mm rounds. Anything else labeled 10mm might as well be .40 cal.
In other words if it doesn’t hurt a little after shooting is it really a 10mm lol
I use Underwood .40, the 155gr xtp JHP.. That round is a screamer. 580ftbs of energy.
Or load you own, its easy. 180gr at 1300fps and up!
Going thru these older videos I continue to be impressed with this channel. 1000% the best no bs independent reviews
Appreciate that, brother!😎👊
As Tools mentioned, original design for the 10mm required a 200-grain bullet with a striking velocity of at least 1,000 feet per second at 50 meters. In this case, we're seeing a 200-grain bullet exceeding 1,000 fps at 50 yards, which is close enough to 50 meters that we can call this "real 10mm" ammo without having to do any math to figure out if the 50 yard/meter energy is sufficient. But math is fun, so let's do some:
V50 for the .40 was 955 for a Ke50 of 364 energy foot pounds.
V50 for the 10mm was 1049 for a Ke50 of 488 energy foot pounds.
That's a difference of 124 energy foot pounds in favor of the 10mm load here.
💥😎👊💥
That’s 34% more energy.
The original 10 mm loads were a 170 gr jhp@1300 fps, and a 200gr fmj tc@1200fps, those were loaded into cut off .30 rem cases. That is over 600 ft/lbs, significantly more powerful than any .40sw loading can be.
Yes, that.
@@greg907660% more money to
Thanks for doing this. I carry 40 smith and Wesson I live in Idaho and for the woods around here the G9 or the wood cutters are enough for me. It hurts my feelings that 40 isn’t very popular but I am glad in other ways because I’m spending 1750 for blazerbrass practice ammo which isn’t horrible and during the pandemic 40 stayed around the longest.
Yessir. You could always find some ammo for it.😎👊
Don't worry about being mainstream, I always thought it was lame to follow what's popular opinion anyway and we all know what's popular isn't popular because of it being the best available most of the time.
It stayed around because the 40 is useless for anything but paper or cans!!
@@stevenp8198 your butt is.
I love the .40SW. Its my favorite caliber for handguns. Paul Harrell had some great .40SW v .45ACP and 9mm videos.
HSTs performance good as usual you'd think the manufacturers would pull their head out and get some powder in the 10s Good on ya 😉
Yessir. They definitely have the bullets figured out.
I still want that crazy 165 grain 10mm underwood round you tested. It's been sold out forever....
Yeah, seems like they changed up a lot of their stuff and just have it marked as out of stock forever.😣
I have a hard time justifying spending HST money, but these tests are pretty dang convincing. Another win for Federal.
They are some good stuff.
Just go for it. You won't regret it. At least for 9mm, ammoman has them often for $40 for a 50 round box. And by the way, if you live in the 48 states, that's shipping included (plus your local tax though, of course). With as reliable as they work, there's absolutely no reason not to buy them, and I challenge anybody to find a video of any test out there that shows them working unfavorably.
Side note, if you MUST spend less, Gun Sam Revolver Afficionado here on RUclips did a side by side test with HSTs and same-weight Fiocchi Defense Dynamics and...they seriously worked well lol. They're cheap, but so far seem to be making a very good name for themselves. I'll stock some of those for a rainy day, but my first choice will always be HSTs.
@@CrashRacknShoot I got super lucky a few months ago and a local store was selling 50 round boxes of 124g 9mm sig elite's for 25 bucks a box. Very close performance as far as I've seen in testing. I do like the punch too, but we all know who's king of the heap. Same store had the same deal on v-crown (same thing, nickel case) 230g 45acp, 14 bucks for 20 rounds. Not sure how they run out of a 3.3 inch barrel, but that's what they're in.
Buy the 50 round LE boxes, they are much more cost effective and they're available in 9x19, .40, 45ACP and .357Sig.
Another good vid. Around 4 years ago, I was fortunate to find a website that had 9mm 124gr and 45 cal 230gr demilled HST bullets for sale in 500rd boxes and cheaply, so I bought a box of each for reloading. Just as your tests show, those bullets are some of the best, reliable expanding handgun bullets on the market, and when loaded at +P pressures, they are devastating.
I am with you on that 10mm load being too weak, for even my 45ACP's in +P handload drives a 200gr bullet at 1,050-1,075fps, and I load the 185's at 1,100-1,125fps. In my 45 Supers, I load the 200gr at 1,250 fps
I have a Glock 23 and it's good to know how the 40 S&W HST performs. Excellent testing and thanks a bunch. Love the hat. 2 thumbs up!
165 lE gold dots are great as well
One could argue that the 40 performed better in this test. Now if Federal pulled the appropriate for caliber extra 100+FPS out of their hats we'd see a very different video. First, that block would do a different dance. That 200gr pill would open larger and more quickly. Tools is one busy and talented Guntuber. Thank you for the great content!
Thank you sir. Give us the speed!😎👊
The "hard barrier" shot reminds me a lot of a wound/wound channel I observed during an autopsy I attended following a homicide I worked. The hard barrier being the pelvic bone of the victim (assuming you wanted to call that SOB a victim considering why he got shot in the first place). The pistol that launched the fatal round was a Glock chambered in .40S&W. The fatal, and only round fired, was a 165grn FPFMJ which took out the heart and left lung of the "victim" after bouncing off of his pelvic bone.
A happy ending
@@Lexicologist1971 His extensive record of attacks on older women did not make him a popular guy. The 70-year-old, retired schoolteacher damn near got a parade in her honor it that tells you anything.
@@furmanmackey5479 Nice to see Granny getting the job done with a 40 "short & weak"!
@@jasonroberts9357Roughly a month later, in a neighboring county, four men in their late teens and twenties and armed with handguns, made a terrible mistake when they attempted to hold up a 24hr "Stop & Rob". Two died instantly within five feet of the checkout counter, one died roughly twenty feet away, at the entrance to the store, and one succumbed in the parking lot/gas pump area after exiting the store....All suffered exactly one wound each. The 1911A1 chambered in the ancient .45ACP loaded with 230grn Federal Hydra Shok JHPs, owned and "operated" by the sixty eight year old grandmother behind the counter put an end to their multi-county two state robbery spree in under one minute based on the security camera "clock". The sheriff of her county was so impressed with her marksmanship that he made her the gift of a brand-new Colt's 80s Series 1911 in .45ACP since her pistol was being held in evidence pending the outcome of the investigation into the shootings. Only a few weeks later a lone gunman attempted to rob the same store and clerk....It did not end well for him as he went home to meet Jesus with a 200grn Corbon JHP "Ashcan" slug in his chest. Once again the Sheriff presented the clerk with a brand new 80s Series 1911 in .45ACP while the earlier gifted pistol was being held in evidence. The store was never robbed nor was any attempt made to rob it over the remaining five years that "Granny" worked the "graveyard shift".
@@furmanmackey5479 Incredible stories of justice being served instantly! Thanks for sharing brother! Keep spreading the good news!😅
Funny how people swear by 10mm but hate 40 now. Leave the 40 for me more ammo for me.
The test I've been waiting on, and it didn't disappoint! Great job, and effort showing what we all needed to see in real time/life.
Thank you sir. Appreciate you!
Federal HST is my large caliber ammunition of choice. When the pandemic was going on and all I could find in the stores was 40 cal. That was when I picked one up. Didn't need it, but it's a new tool.
Yep, never hurts to have a variety of calibers just in case.😎👊
I picked up several very nice 40s as everyone else dumped them. Several have been switched to 357 Sig.
Thanks for the test. I a recently retired Deputy Sheriff of 27 years. I love the 10mm, back in the 90's I carried CorBon. It was the , in 90's language, the " fiz- nizzle" . But then underwood came out and I was in love. Double Tap, Buffalo Bore are just amazing, but for me it's Underwood. Off the shelf ammo, it's hard to beat HST, in almost every caliber. Again, great test. Wishing you and your family a wonderful day. And for you, a early Happy Father's Day.
Thank you sir. Appreciate that!
Oooo 10mm fans get so mad when you tell them 40 s/w is about the same. 10mm ammo makers make weak loads to equal to 40. Not our fault. Great videos!
When the say fourty short and weak, I reply, "you mean 10mm short?" lol.
Thank you sir.😎👊
Yeah those are people that buy ammo off the shelf.. I load for 40 and 10 and at Mac pressure close to the danger zone and at bottom of the chart 10mm beats 40. And it's been more accurate for me at least. I can get 200s at 1300fps out of my Glock 20 and almost 1400 out of a g40
@@brentbyas8357obviously handloading you can get better results, dude didn’t even mention handloading he said factory loads
With the SIG V-crown crowns, my 10mm gets around 1300fps. Definitely not a weak load.
I love these two rounds and I carry 40cal. They doing what 9mm can't and folks can't stand it lol. Be safe buddy
Same her brother, my G23 gen 3 is my daily carry. Back during the ammo shortage there was always .40 available, not that I needed any (I wont say how much ammo I have for all my rifle and pistol calibers lol). I was laughing about all the limp-wristers complaining that they couldn't find any 9mm. The one time they didn't believe in diversity LMAO!
@@randallflores-qr8cs I think it's hilarious when 9mm folks say oh bullet technology makes 9mm good as it gets. Umm newsflash they put all the new bullet technology in all ammo not just 9mm. You said it right "limpwristers" can't handle the recoil of 9mm so they buy the biggest heaviest flashlight laser combo to weigh down the gun lol. Be safe brother. My edc is a m&p 40
😆😆😆
I laugh at the pro 9mm guys too. They tell me that they just need another +p added to the Plus Pee Pee and it's just as good as a 180 grain .40.
Take care.
Dang it ! Now I got ah p😂
O really appreciate your.40 and 10mm tests! You are definitely my favorite to watch. Thank you!
Thank you sir. Appreciate you bigtime!😎👊
Great video!! Carried Federal .40 HST in LE, still carry them.
Thank you sir.😎👊
Carried a SIG P229R in .40 for years and love it. Carry a P938 in 9mm now, because it's much more comfortable and easy to conceal a micro 9. Broke the P229R out of the safe a while back, because I finally got a .357 SIG barrel for it, and I couldn't believe how well I shot it after quite a few years since I last had. I'm a bit of a collector, so I'd been shooting newer guns as I got them. Then when I swapped the barrel I was stoked to see the POI was still dead on, was worried cuz it can be different between different barrels, so the only difference is my hold over at distances. Love the .357 SIG, still love .40, 9, .45, and many others. They've all got their pros and cons, very few calibers are truly useless. Just gotta choose based on the purpose you have, your personal limitations, etc.
I just want to add that I appreciate this channel. The work that is put in is awesome and the way he moderates the content is top notch. Easy to watch and filled with information, Please keep up the great work...
Considering that the original version of 10mm was listed as pushing a 200 gr bullet at 1200 FPS (but in reality only hit about 1150 FPS) achieving 1100 FPS isn’t a total bust. I noticed the recoil of the G20 for the jelly shot and it didn’t seem to be much more than G22 (a good grip is key to recoil control). Recoil control is an important factor for self defense as it affects accuracy during follow up shots. I’ve been an advocate for the 10mm since I discovered it in the mid 90’s. But I believe Wyatt Earp said that speed is fine but accuracy is final. I think the wise course is to find the most potent caliber/load that you can shoot accurately and “on time”.
Yeah, very little recoil difference between these two for me. That's usually how I know as soon as I pull the trigger if the 10mm I just shot was "real" to me.
.40 is no joke. It has been maligned and treated unfairly. Shot for shot, I will take that over any 9mm on the market. For a self defense load, that 180 gr HST checks all the boxes. It also has an extensive record of real world shooting data. It's a stopper! The performance of the 10mm is of course superb, who wouldn't want that. Thank Tools for more great content. I agree with SS. Hardest working man in ammo testing. Best setup too. It would be fun to see what a 10mm would do in a 180 HST.
I have to agree with SouthrenShodan you just maybe the hardest working provider of 2A content and I for one greatly appreciate all the effort you put into providing these informative videos for us. And the Labradar two thumbs-up for that addition. I don't currently own a 10mm, but a first gen S&W M&P 40S&W is one of the tools in my winter EDC rotation and I do believe I will be switching to this Federal HST loading this winter. I still feel the 10mm is too penetrating for the environment I would be most likely to be forced to deploy my gun. I'm 73 years old, I try to avoid situations where I might need to use my weapon. But I expect the most likely place will be somewhere like Walmart a crowded place with a lot of innocent bystanders. Or my apartment with thin walls and innocent neighbors. Over penetration is one of my greatest concerns. Please keep up the very appreciated good work. You are providing what I belive is a valuable public service. THANK YOU!
A rare gel mishap! You’re still the best at placements. I keep waiting for you to say “it’s peanut butter jelly time” 😆
😆😆😆 Thank you sir.😎👊
10mm really begins to shine with underwood ammo or handloads in aftermarket barrels. I can push a 155gr XTP around 1620fps out of a G4O, which is over 900 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle.
Agreed. Harder lead alloy allows for less expansion and increased penetration. Had the lead hardness and bullet construction been the same penetration would have been a little less. They both did well in the gell
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I'd say those numbers and performance are both more than satisfactory for defense against two-legged hooligans. Great video as always. I only discovered this channel about a month ago and it's an absolute treasure for ballistics nerds like myself.
Agreed. Thank you sir.😎👊
Because of your tireless work, I can now equip my carry stuff with Winchester Ranger T series, or Federal HST. Your work has defined the cream of the crop in terminal performance. THANK YOU!!!
Man that HST expansion makes me warm inside. Love it. Cool test once again Tools!
Thank you sir.😎👊
.40 and 10mm are my favorites. You have consistently put on videos I actually want to watch.
Good test. I have to confess I simply don't get 10mm as a self-defense round. More recoil, longer splits between shots and in this case over-penetration. That .40 S&W load was about perfect performance for the role, and even then whether it would outperform a comparable 9mm in a real-world shooting is questionable; too many variables in human tissue and circumstances. To me where the 10mm shines is as a hunting sidearm where one can argue that the extra penetration and power are worth the trade-offs. Not that I don't like 10mm, just for my uses it has limited applications.
I'd like enough power to literally split the scumbag in half but, I'll settle for 10mm.😆
@@ToolsandTargets 😂 Fair enough. As someone that once carried a Jovino Terminator as my CCW I suppose I have no room to cast stones. 😁
@@PoblanoTime Bigoted? What a bizarre choice of words. No, not bigoted not brainwashed nor anything like it. Different opinions, priorities and a different evaluation of what factors I value in a self-defense pistol sure.
Finally someone who agrees with me on what to expect with 10mm. So many people argue with me for being a 10mm fanboy and saying, “___ is just as good as 10mm”. Well with this weak sauce ammo loading they have a point. With true 10mm they aren’t even in the ballpark!
Yessir. I want to feel some power when I run a 10mm.😎👊
@@ToolsandTargets 💯 if my wrists don’t hurt and my fillings stay in my mouth, am I even really alive? 😂
@@andrewfossatti4937 It aint real 10mm unless you have to check and make sure you have ear-pro in, because it's so loud your ears still ring!💥😎👊💥
@@ToolsandTargets respect ✊
You have a point but at the same time this 40 sw ammo is far from maximum capacity… underwood makes a loading that I saw was producing 600 ft lbs or more at the muzzle. True most factory 10mm is weak sauce… but the same can be said with the 40 sw. Don’t get me wrong this ammo is great preforming which is what matters most. Just saying power wise it’s far from the max… about 200ft lbs or more from being maxed out.
I've always been interested in seeing the difference in performance between the two . There's definitely greater penetration with the 10 , but I'm wondering if it'd be "too much" for defense against 2 legged varmints . The .40 seemed to be everything the FBI says is ideal for a handgun round for self defense . Either way I think they both did really well . Thanks again , T&T !
Yeah, the 40 is awesome. I switched to 357 Sig for weight savings. I may carry an excessive amount of ammo. It gets heavy after a while. I'm trying to avoid carrying a 9mm.
The g20 probably softer recoio
Who the hell says "2 legged varmints"?!?! Just say people. No reason to purposely sound ignorant.
You know how it is , you say the word "people" and you'll have You Tube and an Army of WOKE PUKE LIBS accusing you of being a Right-Wing White Supremacist that's hell bent on committing a mass shooting . No my brother , you've gotta be politically correct.......unfortunately !@@shanescatsandcannabisfarm2965
165 gr federal hst in 40 are my favorite to use, it’s a good balance in weight and velocity
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Hornady Critical Defense is better. Their 165gr goes 1,175 ft/s.
@@shanescatsandcannabisfarm2965red tips jammed my Glock constantly failure to feeds caused by the rubber insert
@@eddiecrow9133 really? The Hornady Critical Defense? I have a Springfield Armory XD40 with never happened with mine. I mean XD's are made a tad bit better than Glocks but I still can't believe they wouldn't work in a Glock.
Glock and Hornady are both top of the line products... Strange..... 🤔
@@shanescatsandcannabisfarm2965 it’s nothing wrong with the Glock itself, was just that particular round and the round design itself causes failure to feeds the round is veryyyy narrow and that rubber tip just doesn’t perform like the polymer versions found in rifle Vmax loads, but I don’t have time to bullshit with my life, so 165 grain HST is what I carry now more reliable and cheaper than hornady FTX bullets, google critical defense failure to feed, I’m not the only one who experienced the FTF issue with their loadings.
Hey Tools! I haven't been getting notifacations from RUclips. I would imagine I'm not the only one.
Hope things are going well for you and yours. On a side note back in the early to mid 90's when I first seen .40 an officer I worked with carried a S&W Sigma in .40. KSP carried 10mm at the time in a S&W. Here in your video gives a good example of the problem with .40 at the start. Most bullets in .40 loaded were actually 10mm bullets with a harder lead. Which give the .40 at the beginning a little bad rap. We see this is all history now. Just a little trivia for those who are interested. I like the 10mm. Just makes you feel secure knowing 15 plus one in the pipe, running magnum revolver speeds and weights are on your side.
Excellent content per usual.
Keep'em coming!
HST continues to impress. 20 grains and 100 fps make a huge difference, and the 40 did great too. Use HST in my 9’s, 40’s and 45. Don’t own a 10 mm. Thanks for another sweet test Tools!
Yessir 😎👊
Hst bullets are garbage....would never trust my life on them!!!
.40 always looks good.
Mhmm
More like .40 vs .40+P…
With a 20 grain heavier projectile
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@@ToolsandTargetsI have seen hot 10mm loads and they expand too fast and penetrate much less. The hst 10mm is best of both worlds
@@jackomalley3687 There are FAR better options in 10mm than this HST.
What is your favorite 10mm round @@ToolsandTargets
This was a test that I'd been waiting on for a while. Great job, brother. 👏 👏 👏
Thank you sir. 😎👊
I got some underwood 40 cal thats moving 1350 with 590 pounds of energy
Is the grip on the Glock 20 10mm a lot thicker and wider then the Glock 22 .40cal? I have smaller hands and want to buy one of these.
That 10mm shot into the wood and still going 14 plus inches shows what a 10 mm can do into a wood door and a bad guy i owned a S&W and COLT DELTA ELITE 30 plus years ago and miss that power especially when hand loaded to the max pressure
What a great new channel for me to explore. Wonderful personality to explore ballistics with. Thank you!
Thanks! Appreciate you checking it out.😎
Great test. I really like the new chrono. HSTs have always performed great!
Thank you sir. Hard to beat em.😎👊
Keep up on these 10mm tests. So much potential. Maybe the Mfgs will listen if they hear it enough.
Man I love the the lead tarantulas Federal makes! Lol. Not quite to 10mm standards but closer than most. I wouldn’t hesitate to carry either one of these. I picked up some .40 punch just because they had it today. Great test! Shows some companies do a much better job trying to put out ammo that flat performs. 👍🇺🇸
Federal does seem to be one of the better mainstream brands.
Another great jelly test and I love the performance of both rounds. Thanks for the video and keep shooting 😊.
Thank you sir.😎👊
I love it when I have a question about ammo and I find that you've done a video about it. Tools for the win!
Congrats on the new chrono. Gotta tell you that I winced a bit with you shooting over the Pro Chrono from an unrested position. People may find it hard to believe considering the short distances that chronos are placed ahead of the muzzle, but if you check and handloading forum, or section of your firearms forum, many, many chronographs become shooting victims. Maybe not directly shot in the chrono's housing, but a square on hit to a skyscreen rod can be fatal. Nice to see you make the change. I won't complain too much about the apples to pears - better than apples to oranges - comparison of a 180 gr. .40 HST to a 200 gr. 10mm HST. 180 vs 180 might illustrate the power differences a bit better, because it seems likely that you'd be testing the same 180 gr. HST in the 2 different, but similar cartridges.
Thank you sir. It does sound easy putting rounds exactly where you want them at such a short distance but you're right, it can be "interesting." I had actually swapped out my steel diffuser rods with wooden dowels so they would just snap off if I accidentally shot them, instead of bending and breaking the chrono. I actually have an unopened backup pro chrono I keep with me in case I ever need it. Luckily I haven't yet.😆
Love these tests!! Love both of these calibers. Great work as always!!
Thank you sir.😎👊
Great results. The HST is a true you pay for what you get and is worth the difference all day long. Nice wood barrier shot. Definitely gives another perspective. Worked out good. Very interesting good to see some top notch performance out of both pistols and ammo. Nice flower pedals 😂. Thanks for sharing be safe. ⭐️⭐️👍👍🇺🇸
Best carry round in my opinion is the Underwood Extreme defender. Not a hollow point, so it won't plug up, and creates a devastating wound channel. And you are correct. In most cases, the difference between 10 and .40 doesn't justify the cost. Very little difference.
I believe 165gr is best for .40 and 180gr for 10mm. Awesome video as always brother
Random idea for a test: see which commonly (not mail order) available 10mm offerings come closest to the Norma standard. I like the 10mm, but BB and Underwood have gotten pretty expensive when you factor in shipping, etc. Even if it is a FMJ, I would love to know if there are decent, cheaper, alternatives that approach the original Norma power standard. *Doesn't have to all be 200 gr., but see what is closest energy-wise that is more reasonably priced now that 10mm is no longer the leper cartridge it used to be in the 2012-2015's.
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Both did exactly what they were meant to do. Another excellent video brother tools.
Thank you sir. Appreciate you!
Good analysis, to get full power from 10mm, either hand load them or get Underwood or buffalo bore
Thank you sir. Love me some Buffalo Bore.
I have a Glock 35 that I like a lot. This test you did let me see how certain .40SW rounds perform. But the only 10mm I have is a Kriss Vector with a 16" barrel and I haven't seen any gel testing on 10mm rifles. They are probably somewhat rare carbines. But if you happen to have a 10mm rifle, I would really like to see that test. I would think the rounds will perform much differently out of a rifle than from a pistol. And I like to know how all my guns would perform in home and self defense situations.
I've been thinking about grabbing some kind of 10mm carbine. Local shop had a CMMG a while back in white and black that I almost bought. Need to look around and see what I might can find a deal on.😎👊
I'm glad to see that you kept the clothing barrier. After watching tons of defense shooting videos, I've noticed that thugs nearly always wear hoodies even in summer. Don't know why. I despise those things even in winter. That's what coats and hats are for. I think that most companies download the 10mm because most average shooters can't handle the recoil. It doesn't have very much recoil in my opinion but I grew up shooting guns that would put bruises on you. That's why the pitiful little 9mm is so popular. It has no recoil in compact and up sized guns. The micro9s are a different story depending on the ammo. With hot +Ps they can be snappy and whack the ol knuckle with the trigger guard if it's not undercut enough. That's why I have a Pachmeyer grip sleeve on my little Ruger EC9S. The only carry ammo I have is 124 gr +P HSTs and most of my practice ammo is 9×19 NATO Swiss military 124 gr. I never carry it anyway except in the house in my shirt pocket. If I set one foot out the door, I swap it for my 4" 1911 45. That's my EDC and constant companion. I'm so used to having her on me and have put over 1500 rounds down range and on critters that I don't feel safe or comfortable with a 9mm. I know that the little Ruger is as reliable as death and taxes but I've tested the little 1911 and ammo enough to trust her 100% and you've got to have complete faith in your EDC or a fraction of a seconds of hesitation can cost you your life. I'd still like to have a 10mm. Well if I could afford it I would have a gun in every caliber, but that probably ain't gonna happen.
I'm the same way about recoil. I shoot so much and so many guns that I'm almost "numb" to recoil a lot of times. Sometimes I don't realize when I tell someone it hardly has any recoil, that it might have more to them than I realize.😆
@@ToolsandTargets , I've let people shoot my USP40. That gun is a cupcake. I've had people tell me IT was snappy. For two years, I carried a tiny 25 oz. aluminum frame 3.3" 45 1911. I learned a lot shooting that gun. I've learned that what many people consider to be harsh recoil is just edging into respectable power. It is very subjective. It reminds me that my background as a mechanic helped a lot with grip strength. Most people have never done jobs that required strength. Most folks have always been weak. 400+ foot pound ammo ain't for everyone.
Damn! Gotta love it. Have been so into acquiring and learning about 9mm info lately ive totally neglected my .40! Time to go out and get some HSTs for that little guy, just like I do my 9's now. Good to know I can pretty much grab what I need from one brand/type of ammo for self defense. Makes shopping nice and easy.
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@Yacol johnson hey man, ya like what ya like. .40 is just fine, got Golden Sabre 165s in it right now as I type this, and I know for a fact that it'll work when I need it (hell, it's a CZ, it'll never not work!). However, if it's a choice between 9x19 and .380, there ain't a chance in hell I'm consciously taking the short one with about 10k psi off the top of a standard load. You either get to put pencil holes in the bad guy, or *if- IF* you can even find an actual working hollowpoint for it, it won't reliably penetrate deep enough to efficiently stop an aggressor. .380 is for the birds. At best.
love the honesty brotha! you are a breath of fresh air in the sometimes nonsense gun world!!! Awesome stuff as always!
Great test as always! Seems like it is hard to get 10mm with bullets that can handle actual 10mm speeds and not over expand.
Thank you sir.😎👊
I think there was some room for expansion in this 10mm loading. I’d like to pull some and try a different powder to get it to that 1250fps mark and retest in gel. I’d be willing to bet you’d get about the same penetration and expansion as the 40, but with a lot more energy.
Thanks for this video! I have a 5" .40, and I've been wantng to get my hands on some HSTs for awhile now, and this just further solidifies that!
Great stuff.😎👊
I’ve been missing the videos but will play catch up this week. This was the first one I noticed and took a quick look. In large part because HST is one from the pile of underpowered factory 10mm that keeps showing better real world performance than the numbers on the box would indicate. The reliable expansion and wound channel to that 12-18” range in gel through clothing is an ok standard. And I’d agree that 16” is generally a decent result. Reading the box always makes HST 10mm seem too weak to bother using. Then in the tests it keeps reaching 22” with good expansion. That is undeniably better than the corresponding 40 cal. It is annoyingly close to being what it should be! Lol 😂
I usually carry a G20 and expect 10mm carry ammo to beat that 18” mark by at “least” 4-6”. Otherwise why bother. Of course there are many other factors to consider like being hard barrier blind and what effects bone may have. I believe Underwood Xtreme Defender has that covered better than any other ammo. Think the last test you did had it at 24” in the same test? It’s odd that for all the research and development companies claim to do, the only JHP that’s consistently getting those numbers is still HST. If they simply bump up the speed 100-150 fps, we’d probably see a few inches less depth and better expansion, with a lot more energy transfer into the block and more disruption in the wound channel. Perfect 10 edc. How great would it be to see them listen and possibly end up putting out the best well rounded JHP self defense 10mm on the market? Underwood will still have their solid copper screwdriver ammo which has its own abilities, and the coated hardcast for bear or hogs. But HST could be king of the hill for basic 10mm edc. Maybe someday. Even moving too slowly, I’d call the results a win and it’s a worthy carry option. Could just be so much better!
Yessir. A little speed bump would have HST sitting comfortably on top of the "common" 10mm pile.
Hey thank you sir. I appreciate you putting in the work to make this video for us and respond to your viewers request. I dont know how many others asked but i do know we talked about it. It may not be in that same bullet as last time but i know you did what you could. Thank you.
I love the 40 but it really benefits from smaller grain weights, 134gr 40 is basically a 357 sig. velocity, energy and grain weight are the same but the 40s a bit cheaper. Don’t tell anyone
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I do carry a 40 s&w and I do use that federal ammo for self-defense and I’m happy to see how well it responded. I don’t know why some people don’t like the Smith and Wesson 40 I’ve always heard people kind of talk crap about that particular gun but I’ve owned it for over 25 years and he’s never giving me a 15:57 problem it shoots well and it hits The target. I do wish it had a little bit better trigger though.
The cost savings on powder is so minimal I don't understand why they don't load these 10mm to acceptable velocity they'd have all 10mm shooters who buy factory ammo chasing them .
The cost is significant across a million rounds.
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Factories are loading 10mm down because everyone is trying to use it as a carry round. A properly loaded 10mm is going to over penetrate.
@@MartyB618not necessarily, the right bullet choice is key. Look at Sig V-crown 10mm. They’re a full power load and performs amazingly without over penetrating
@@MartyB618I think it has more to do with proper depth and expansion. If you push the bullet too fast you won't get very deep penetration
You failed to mention the 365-380. I started with the 365 9 that I loved until I began shooting timed defensive drills. No bueno! But the 380 is a dream!! The ability to put lead on target with speed maybe unmatched by anything to the 365-380. The confidence that you have in doing so can’t be ignored.
Huh?
Just curious, you say this doesn't exactly live up to your expectations...so what ammo do you prefer over this? Awesome as always, Tools! You work hard for us and we appreciate you.
Buffalo Bore 180 grain is what I keep in this Glock. It's stupidly expensive but at least gives you what you should get from a 10mm in my opinion. Thank you sir.😎👊
@@ToolsandTargets Awesome! Thanks for the follow-up. Just bought some of this the other day but yet to shoot it. Thank you!
@ToolsandTargets , you may like Sig's loading. I believe they use a 180 grain JHP loaded to 1250 FPS.
Do you like 165 or 180 grain 40 sw more?
Now this is what I wanted to see. I wonder what could happen if they loaded a full 10mm charge behind an HST.
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I agree both did a great job, thanks for sharing
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Really appreciate your vids and the work you put into them. I have multiple caliber’s like them all and if there’s a ammo shortage on any of them I just get the one that’s still plentiful. But I agree 10 mm could be better 😅
Thank you sir.😎👊
Another outstanding review, Brian! I have been debating on the Labradar chrono for a while now and really like its capabilities. I need it. Thanks again for all your efforts!👊👍😎
Thank you sir. It saves all the data to an excel file on the SD card and has a bluetooth phone app also. It's super expensive but definitely a huge wealth of info for ballistics/data folks. 😎👊
@@ToolsandTargets Judging from the data it gives you it appears to be worth the investment. Have a good one my friend and keep rocking these excellent videos!
The .40 did it just right with good expansion and perfect penetration! Thank you, Mr. Mayor! ;)
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That first 10mm went all "Ricochet Rabbit" off that wood board! Great defensive ammo, for sure. I wish I could find some of the 10mm HSTs. Thank you Sir, for this one!
Made a mess for me to clean up!😆
It's real 10mm, but it's a fairly light loading. It has significantly more energy than a 40S&W so it does check the 10mm box for me, but it's by no mean pushing that cartridge to its full potential.
Sounds about right.😎👍
10 mm factory rounds are loaded to 40 Small and Weak ballistics generally. True 10 mm loadings are a 180 gr loaded to 1300 fps(6" barrel) or 200 gr bullet at 1200 fps, they shoot at much higher pressure than other auto calibers!! Do some real research.... 40 s are garbage!!
I love all of your reviews. Keep up the great work.
Appreciate that!😎👊
I think it would be interesting to shoot those loads in the Glock 20 10mm with a 9" lone wolf barrel and see the velocities and how the bullets would expand in the gel.
That actually might not be a bad idea. I had thought about picking up an FN510 when it came out but then decided it wouldn't really get much use being pretty much the same barrel length as this Glock. Didn't even think about just grabbing a longer barrel.
@@ToolsandTargets Lone Wolf had blemished 9" Glock 20 10mm barrels knocked down to a 120$. The barrel I bought didn't looked blemished.
@@russellweber3466 Looks like everything they have is out of stock now.😣
@@ToolsandTargets Yes the barrels sold out.
Hey Tools, I’ve been waiting for this one. Great review, thank you!
Thank you sir.😎👊
Just admit you were afraid of the 10mm power and anticipated the recoil on that forst shot. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
😆😆😆 Not gonna even lie, it was one of them moments where I knew I wasn't where I wanted to be but just pulled the trigger anyway.🤣🤣🤣
The one behind the 40S&W was your earlier 22mag test (25 was the bottom track) 🤓. Does this mean I’m watching too many of your videos….
The TEN may not have been to the full potential, but it was approx 10% faster even though it was also approx 10% heavier. Great quality, great consistency, thanks again from down under 🇦🇺
That means you're watching just the right amount!😎😆
Good results from both, but another 100-150fps on that 10mm and that thing would expand inside out. 😂 HST once again showing why its the King of self defense ammo. 🇺🇸
Yessir 😎👊
Enjoy the weather Tools, it might be cooling off in a day or so. Nice test, I really enjoyed that hard barrier addition. I think I'll stick with the 40 over theses 10's. Like you I expect more from a 10mm. Just wish the manufactures would load ammo to its potential.
Be vigilant and always be safe my friend.
Thank you sir. Was out today running a couple new tools and got pretty warm out there. I know it's just waiting to hit us with some 90 degree heat.😆😆😆
I for one have been fairly disappointed with the rise in popularity of 10mm, because it's mostly been a style fad of unserious shooters. The fact is 10mm has only gotten weaker and weaker in factory offerings in order to accommodate designs of guns that really should not be firing the stuff. But along the way, it developed a craze following of people worshipping it as if it was comparable to a .44mag in muzzle energy; ignoring that factory offerings in 10mm Auto have slowly drifted into .40S&W +P territory.
But maybe this is a sign of the times. As gun companies have largely tried to make pistol shooting more accesible to scores of newer, inexperienced shooters, we see the downward slide in power for most centerfire pistol calibers across the board. Just like a lot of well known powerhouse rounds, if you want 10mm that performs to the stories of old, you have to handload it. But for all around performance that has largely still stayed itself for over 30 years, get a .40S&W.
Sad, but true. Too many carry it just to say they carry it, and then excuse weak ammo.
I almost bought a 10mm.. Glad I didn't.. The .40 is just fine and honestly I carry it more and is a bit more versatile and realistic for self defense situations and in the woods. Perfect all around caliber
.40 or 10? They both win👍👍👍
Yep😎👊
Super great video's. Everytime I am thinking of particular ammo I would like to see, you have a video out on it. Thanks again for the awesome vids!!
Appreciate that!😎👊
40HSTs are always impressive. 10mm, when it's real, is awesome. Though for carry, I'll take the 40. Love to see some 357s thrown in for good measure! Thanks sir! Great content as always.
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Working hard and loving every minute of it. As always, I appreciate all of the content. Keep it coming 👍.
Thank you sir. Was out on the range again today playin with some new tools.😎👊
10mm and 40 caliber are same diameter. Only difference is longer casing! EDC is the Glock model 22 and 23. Camping bear gun is Glock Model 4 MOS.
love your channel but everybody always uses the 180 grain .40 and it was designed around a 165 grain bullet for best performance...wish more people would test the 165 ....great job as always🇺🇸🇺🇸👍👍
Thank you sir. 😎👊
Original carry option for the.40 was cor bon 135 gr it had great velocity and good expansion
Good video! Have both and like both. I prefer to carry .40 simply because the platform is easier to conceal.
Thank you sir.