Horizontal Boring Mill Restoration: Scraping the Saddle Ways Flat
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- Опубликовано: 19 май 2022
- Horizontal Boring Mill Restoration: Scraping the Saddle Ways Flat
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Wow you've got the patience of a saint and skills to match!
Really lucky to have it that good for the age of this Horizontal mill. Proves older machines are still valuable .
It's wonderful having this skill and knowledge shown to us by a pro. We get the chance to learn how to or where to learn with a teacher- thanks, Keith.
Nice job Keith! Scraping is the part of the origin of accuracy and is still a wonderful pragmatic way to make a lasting precision machine. A fundament I think. Much appreciated! Thank you Keith!
Just a hint on using straps on a lifting hook. Put a cross in the straps at the lifting hook. This will keep the straps from sliding under load, supporting the load more level. X at lifting hook. Nice work being done here. Thank You for sharing the progress.
The oil groove looks to be chiseled in before the final grind. Fantastic old machine. You scored huge.
I suspect the planer that did those did a pass with a diamond cutter or a metal one. Then the s curves that intersect that flow oil both ways from/to the line.
5:28 What a great camera shot! You can see the chips (flakes?) coming off the tool and landing on the ways.
That isn't from the tool.. it the metal being removed from the casting.
Very well edited Keith. Enough detail for enthusiasts and good flow for those of us for whom scraping is a magic, mysterious art.
Thanks Mr Rucker for all of your focus and attention to your work.
I had a few great uncles who worked part time as machinists and they said 'a good scrapping in, is like adding 10,000 ball bearings in every square inch' and after seeing how easy you move that saddle on the stone with only ink as a lubricant? Yeah, its like 10,000 ball bearings was added.
What a great visualization 🤠
Believe it or not, a boring mill can be interesting!
Nicely recorded and explained Keith. The details you captured and the reasoning is very helpful in understanding why such attention is being given to the process. 👍👍
Great work on scrapping and using the rock! Camera footage editing was superb! Mr. King would be proud!
I'm excited to see the next steps on doing the rest of the ways. Great video, thanks Keith.
Fascinating! I remember watching the machine repairmen at the shop I used to work at do this. It's a skill that, I believe, will be needed well into the future. I hope you are passing this knowledge on to a younger generation.
As long as cast iron ways are needed.
Very interesting and impressive work Keith! Looking forward to see how you manage the bottom ways of that saddle!
it is a very nice job, the ways were in a better condition than I tought, this will be a very good machine for general machining work.
Without that faceplate, it would be almost impossible to achieve such a good result.
I can watch you scraping all day. Great job and great video. Thank you Keith
That saddle is a beast.
That saddle?maybe u never see someone big than this
Very nice! I appreciate your continued effort to provide good, practical scraping demonstrations. The basics take a few minutes to communicate, but to really grasp the process, all of the demos really work well together. Congratulations on the condition of the machine!
Looking good 👍
Great job!!!
Just saw the biggest and class AA granit surface plates ever.
I Just had the last test in my job apply ( technical), in a New job as an metrologist ...so stocked !
Grtz from the netherlands
Johny geerts
There was a huge granite surface plate at a used steel/equipment dealer near me on Interstate 5 a few years ago. He was reselling tons of equipment and steel from Boeing in Everett Washington when they scrapped the plant out and moved to China. The plate must have been 20 inches thick or more, 60 feet long, and 15 feet wide. I remember being very impressed that they could move it without breaking it. I have always wondered what something like that was worth and what he got for it.
@@5x535 wow same thickness thought guess the biggest i saw was 12 to 15 feet .
Full granit ..
But every secties, even the electronics departement had granite surface plates table as workbenches 🤪🤯..
I saw like Twente smaller 6 ft tables and some for Europe (lol) extreme big ones AA ...
I was like a small boy i the candybar shop ...but i paid of !
Just had a call i start 7 june , i have at last a job that thick all my intrest boxes🤩🤪🙌🙌
As an calibration engineer so greatfull and happy
Keith, Thanks for sharing these scraping videos, I am still practicing before scraping my Bridgeport table.
Nice job very interesting thanks for sharing
Great job, you make it look easy.
Hiya Keith
Beautiful work.
Your work is excellent. Amazing to watch. Thanks mightily.
Thanks for the video, Keith. See you at the Bar-Z. Jon
Great job! Looking forward to the next video!
Thanks! And greetings from Dresden!
KEITH, PET THE CATS AND DOGS, GREAT JOB, GREAT VIDEO...
Well Done Keith!
Great information with this video. Thanks for sharing.
Nice work Keith - as usual. I can't believe how even you got the blue spots.
Great video Keith, keep'um coming..
great explanation of the process thanks for sharing
Thanks again. Very educational.
Scraping ways = Total rebuild in my book
Good show!
Thanks for sharing 👍
Leith, you really amaze me.
Don’t forget to indicate your screw bore. Don’t want it out of parallel or perpendicular if you can avoid it.
Most excellent.
Thanks Keith...
Really looking forward to the next video. Having trouble visualizing the setup needed to reference that top surface to the bottom.
Looking good
THANKS KEITH
Fast forward works good. 👍🏻👍🏻
An exercise in patience? Great work!
good video keith
I have wondered a few times while watching the scraping videos if you are making the machine more accurate (or better) than it was when it came out of the factory. Clearly the planning left a good surface but it feels like it wouldn't be as good as scraping with a top quality surface plate as a reference.
It depends on the state of the machine when it left the factory.
It may end up being as good or close to when it left the factory. However, I doubt it would be better than it left the factory. The machines Keith scrapes in were top of the line machines back in the day. They were the cream of the crop and accurate. That’s not to say you could not buy a new cheap machine and make it better than factory.
I have scraped machine tools for many years...this is not the correct way to do this....you don't know if each way is the same height
@@hoppercar Can this not be addressed when he has the bed ground?
@@hoppercar Why not? Both ways were scraped and compared to a very flat surface plate. After scraping and comparing many times the ways are the same height and on the same plane with no rock. How would you do it differently? Please explain.
Nice shop
Nice!
Wow! Great job!
I'm just curious; if you didn't have such a large surface plate, how would you scrape the saddle ways?
Keith
Thanks for demonstrating this again.
If you have time the next time you do this can you demonstrate how this is done for a minute or two with s Manuel scrapper. I don’t have a huge surface to do and the electric ones cost more than my machine.
Thanks
Frank
He's gone into it pretty well in previous videos
As always, nice video. Scraping is such a great topic. I was sorry not to see you precision stoning between scrapes, which some viewers may not know to be important in the scraping process. Thanks for your videos.
love that surface plate! that thing is twice the size of mine, I don't know where I would put it but I would love to have one that big
Nice
Since it takes so much time to scrape each pass, how long does your blue ink stay wet ?
Great content I love to watch machine scraping. What size radius was on the first and last pass. Just curious of your choice. It came out nice and I’m anxious to see how you bring in the cross section
I understand flat but how do you know the 2 flat sides say one side is slightly higher than the other
Great tutorial. How does the scraped surface feel to the hand, as compared to something ground, like a 123 block or a gauge block?
thats nice, really good job. a skill i really should try to master..... or at least get better at
Hey Keith, I love watching your videos especially the scraping content. I noticed you have a powermatic planer in the background. Any chance on doing a series on tuning one of those up?
Keith,
Great video and an impressive skills display.
I do have some simple questions regarding your saw horses. It looks as if the members you're landing your newly scrapped surfaces are steel. Would it make sense to fit wood covers to protect your parts from damage while lifting and turning? Also, would it make sense to fit cross members between the saw horse? This would keep the horses together so they are more like like a table.
Bob
Nice job.just is better check if is flat with level also.like that is same high on corners of the slideways
Doesn't the surface plate need to be rechecked after moving it? I remember it being said that even just standing on the concrete by it will actually change it.
it seems like in a shop like that and with a surface plate that big, is dust getting on the plate/ink and under the saddle unavoidable? If so how big of a deal is it?
Hey Keith, I also took one of Richards classes, but never worked on something with ways this big, yet... Could you have used a longer stroke or a wider cut to get things in to shape quicker?
I've got a question about this job; why don't you used surface grinding method ? ( please don't judge me i'm just asking out of curiosity) Because this method taking to much time i think surface grinding gonna be to much easier than scraping the saddle ways flat method.
Will you be improving the oil channel ? Looks like it could be a bit deeper.
Simple question: Did you wipe the blue off and then run your stone over the wayes in between scrapings? You didn't show that. I'm just wondering if that wouldn't account for some of the high spots if you didn't
He would do that each time, and wipe with mineral sprits.
What mechanism ensures that the scraper always takes off such a small amount of material?
The skill of the operator. Constant even pressure on the tool.
I've got a question about the ink: does it dry out? if so, how long does it take?
Linseed oil based will eventually dry out; don't knowwhat he uses
That's the 'way' to do it... ;-)
What kind of ink is that?
👍👍👌👌
you did wipe the surface before laying it on the surface plate ???
Of course he did. He's scraped lots of machines and has shown the whole process in previous videos. Not filming every step doesn't mean it didn't happen.
@@deathk26 and you are confident that he did not say ...no big deal..😘
What ever happened to the bandsaw rebuild? I watched 20 episodes then couldn’t find any more videos.
I have a some shop 178sqft, so there for the scale I work on is small, there for my tooling need to be small. I've been collecting Atlas, it fits rite in for small scale work and what goes along with Atlas is restoration, all what I have collected needs big time work on them to be done. What I'm leading up to is I'm not collecting to just show off, but to have what is needed for my hobby work. I know some fokes out there just what to have a show off shop,
Boring machine is right. When I signed on you were working on steam engines. I know it's your channel and your choice. What happened to the steam auger for feeding a boiler?
You need to follow closer! The machine he is working on is critical to the "stoker engine" rebuild. Some times you have to build tools to fix tools! Relax a bit or you can always go away.
@@paulcopeland9035 This is a conversation between A me and B Keith so you can C your way out.
@@pscotty This is public. If you want to bother Keith, you will have to email or something else. BTW, your alphabet is coming along nicely. Glad I could help.
I clearly have little mastery of what you're doing, but if you ground the surfaces perfectly flat on a grinder, then put a cross-hatch pattern similar to how you did those vise jaws, would that accomplish the same goal as scraping?
In short, no.
Typically no machine grinding will be as accurate as hand scraping and using a surface plate as a master. But on a very good grinding that may be all you need.
go watch the scraping videos for the metal planer. he had that ground and then had to scrape it all.
@@katelights I've likely seen it, just wondering why it has to be scraped by hand for the ~10-50 points of contact. I was wondering if a crosshatch pattern like knurling would work in conjunction with really flat grinding.
@@Sizukun1 No, knurling is an embossing process that raises the metal surface, exactly the opposite of what scraping does. While knurling looks good and provides a good gripping surface it will not produce a flat surface.
HBM restore play list at
ruclips.net/p/PL0JMSLgDbUcf2GvTG33c3rfVc6K4G16MB
(intones) This is the Way.
The enemy of good is better.
A minor clarification @ 10:32: "half a thousandths or fifty millionths". Half a thousandths (0.001 / 2 = 0.0005) is 5 ten thousandths. Fifty millionths is 0.000050.
Yeah -- he meant half a tenth.
@@ydonl Keith has forgotten more about machining than I'll ever know, so I'm very reluctant to try and correct him. That said, it was a simple misstatement. But some people may - and some will - incorrectly interpret his statement as another way of saying "half a thousandths" is "50 millionths".
@@JimSmith431 Gotcha! What a world. :)
Coplaner?
Question? :)
So without scraping you check it and if it looks great you don't scrape, that's what makes sense to me? Can you say I need to scrape because I like to scrape? That's why the original makers put the oil valleys in the piece and didn't scrape it..
That is some very dodgy rigging you're doing there, I've noticed it several time recently. The chances of those slings slipping through the hook are very high, the way you are using them and a chip out of the granite plate could be the result. It needs four individual legs of the same length to do it safely.
I worry that the rigging is gonna cost him an injury at some point. I've done some dodgy stuff, too, but that was before I knew better. There isn't a good reason to chance it if you have the means to do it right. Proper straps are cheap compared to a hospital visit and surgery and recovery.
Please sir you owe to your trade and your family to get healthier. If you lost 20 or 30 pounds you would be an absolute machine. Good luck.
I agree, Keith is super smart and hard working but getting a little too heavy for good health. I lost 20 pounds simply by not snacking after super and before bed. Waking up ravenous hungry though lol !
My god man ur not working for nasa now
Your sound quality is no where as good as it used to be, it's hard listening now.
Too much talk
If you want to see some real machining with just enough talk to let you know what he’s doing, watch Kurtis at Cutting Edge Engineering. He works on some big stuff.
Sorry, but I just can't watch another scraping video.
No dislike, but no like either.
I’d sooner shave a tiger’s ass in a phone booth as I would watch another scraping video.
Back in the day when machines were hand built, there were specific workers that did scraping all of their careers. A good "scraping hand" was a very valuable employee. You two guys would not have had a job with that attitude. Just go away if you cannot appreciate how it was done!
“The truth is in the blueing”
Hes always said it