Horizontal Boring Mill: Inspecting the Bed for Squareness to the Column
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- Опубликовано: 4 авг 2022
- Horizontal Boring Mill: Inspecting the Bed for Squareness to the Column
I am rebuilding my HBM and in this video I will show you how I am checking the machines bed ways for squareness to the column of the machine so that I can go back and do some more hand scraping to make it better.
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Please don’t leave us out of the scraping! Love watching it
It's always fascinating to watch as you check things for flat, parallel, and square. I learn ever time. Thanks Keith.
What an amazing amount of work, just to set things up so you can check it!
THEN all the scraping and checking again.
I would imagine all that would cost a moderate FORTUNE if you had to have someone else do it, not to mention moving that monstrosity back and forth.
You don't know how impressive your knowledge and skillsets are to a wannabe garage machinist like me.
I would imagine you have already forgotten more about it than I will even wish I knew.
Thumbs up!!! You may be an oldtimer or had an exceptional English teacher. Why? Because you say across, without the trailing T (i.e. "acrossT") that the young generation has started adding. Supposedly I should not care, as English was my third language. But I still remember one of my teacher's reactions for some small slips in my use of English, especially starting to use the American English spelling. "We are supposed to learn Oxford English here" still rings in my ears, despite the fact that I ultimately chose to ignore the advice about Oxford English as the mandated version. It's a pleasure to watch and listen to you!!
Flatness is flatness - I live in the Cambridgeshire fens in England and I reckon that some parts of it are accurate to a thou in a country mile! Only joking but it's all about scale! Great job as usual, Keith, thank you for sharing.
Gooood evening from central Florida! Hope everyone has a great night!
Loving the series Keith. Learning so much.
I guess casual watchers of this channel might get the wrong idea about Keith's relationship to precision when he's making pieces that don't require it (as he often does). But when he's dialing in and scraping a "new" machine like this he really takes it to another level.
Thanks for sharing 👍
Intense and fun to watch at the same time !!
Great video 👍 packed full of fantastic information 👌
VERY NICE MACHINE
Thank Keith for letting me come along with the rebuild.
Your videos are always great to watch. I learn something every time. Thank you for making them.
Interesting video thanks for sharing
amazing work!
love all your videos, you are a master at working on those old machines!!
Great explanation!
Great video Keith, keep'um coming.
Pretty cool process
Mr. Rucker, I've complained about too many scraping videos, but I've got to say that this one was extremely interesting. The reason I complain is that you have such a recognizable, visual grasp of the geometrical makeup of any given machine that it demonstrates that a great machinist must have very good natural ability in addition to good training, and you have that ability. Thank you for sharing your experience.
The trials & tribulations. thanks for sharing. you have incredible patience & skill
Scraping is awesome! I can't get enough of it Keith. Ciao, Marco.
Thanks for another informative video🤗😎 😎
Thank you for sharing.👍👀
and the rewards of all your efforts will be seen in every piece that comes off that machine for the rest of your life, barring any catastrophic incidents brought on
by operator error. fun and educational to watch, lot of elbow grease required from both mind and body.
Love this stuff. I wouldn't have the patience to do it but fascinating to watch.
Keith, seeing you go through (& share!) your thoughts as you determine whether the ways are co-planar _and_ square to the column is *extremely* interesting & useful. Please do share more videos like this as you proceed on not only this project, but future projects too!
This is awesome learning how to get these planes measured and checked for alignment then get them like new. I have been trying to backtrack through your videos to find all the ways on how to get a lathe squared and sorted in case say a cheap watch makers lathe comes up on ebay or somewhere. Then I'LL KNOW what tools are needed, how to do it and get to work, once restored make model engines and ect.
Yep, we even have to keep level, plumb and square in construction but maybe not quite as in your horizontal boring mill. I"m learning a lot about machines here and some other videos. Thank you, Greg.
Good evening Keith from the UK
Folks often rightly compliment you on your shop skills. What I find equally amazing is your patience. I'm curious to know how many hours you spent on this job with the scraper in your hands.
Yes, if Keith tells me it’s dead nuts on, then having seen his attention to detail, I’m going to believe him. True craftsmanship on display here.
Keith, I'd like to suggest you use the saddle to spot the bed ways before you lower the front way. If there is front to back tilt in that way, or the back one, then you'll need to address that before you try to bring them into the same plane with each other. The saddle should make a very good spotting tool since you spent so much effort scraping it in already. I hope what I'm trying to convey is clear. Thanks for your videos.
I used to know a couple of tool room / maintenance managers that would have given their left arm for a granite square like that. Very interesting video.
Hi Keith another interesting vid
Yes, watching someone scrape ways is boring after a while. And there's nothing exciting about inspection. But it is necessary. That humdrum stuff is the magic that makes everything as accurate as it can be. Thanks for including some of it. I will never rebuild a Horizontal Boring Mill. But I'm fascinated by the effort and ingenuity that goes into accuracy.
when setting a lathe, I use the feets of the machine to setup the parallelleilism and of course the taper of the turned shaft
I tend to believe that the deviations you encounter on your machine can be due in part to the initial setting of the machine feet to the ground. as that machine have been moved from the location where it spent the most part of its life and accumulated its wear..
very good video.
Interesting how you would combine original levelling of the machine, when you presume the beds need re aligning/scraping with re grinding and scraping. Guess you level it as best as you can and then take it from there. Good stuff Kieth.
Morning Keith :D
I had to laugh, when I saw that granite square I was like "Dang that's a massive square" Then when the parallel popped up I was like "good God! That's a parallel!" My inner Tim came out and I grunted! Har Har Har!
My head hurts! This is incredibly complex. And looming over the horizon is the question of what do those measurements look like at the far end of the bed.
I was wondering. I watched this video last night on a Roku streaming player on the bedroom tv. When Keith reminded the audience to click the thumbs up button, I wondered how that could be done on a video playing on my tv. I had to remember to go to youtube on my laptop this morning and click the thumb. This might be causing issues for youtubers creators tracking.
Coming along, nice. May just have to use it for roughing out. A couple of thousand is pretty good
You modify the complex verb "coming along" with "nicely" not "nice". Also you have no subject of the sentence so it's just a fragment, like speaking gibberish. It should be "It is coming along nicely" or "your scraping/parallel finding project is coming along nicely".
@@silasmarner7586 Pertty muhc udnersotod waht was wirtten , olny need to get the odd wrod crroect to tarnsmtit the msesgae.
@@silasmarner7586 get a life you sad person.
Some replies can be quietly ignored, Phil.
We just witnessed, “the Rupert scrapping dance” Could be the next dance craze….. I can see an entire scrapping class doing “warm-ups with Rukert saying. get those elbows up even with your shoulders, fingers straight and tight…..
Since the location of the saddle during the majority of work this machine has likely experienced (and therefore expected location of wear on the ways) has occurred on the end of the bed-ways nearer to the column. So therefore, one might expect more error in straightness on that region (dished-out ways). Since the granite square is only about 10-12" long on the short, side you are measuring a shorter average base than what will actually be used by the saddle. I believe that when finally measure using the saddle/table combined, then a larger contact-area surfaces will be experienced and therefore your out of tolerance condition will be somewhat less than what was measured using 10-15" long standards.
That being said... I'm not an inspector and I don't even play one on TV! The complexity of these variables, combinations and dependencies just makes my head hurt. Good on you Keith for taking the time to do this right, and for having us along on your journey of discovery and restoration. I'm both educated and inspired by your patience and effort.
Oh my freaking Gawd! Just kidding. As a barber/stylist 42 years, I appreciate precision. Being philosophical about it, the journey is as least as satisfying as the end results right? Right? Lol!
I would also suggest sticking the indicator out some length then slide the saddle out while measuring off the parallel as you had it last to see how it travels vertically in the boring axis.
13:55 I have never seen such a monster parallel as that! Just think of the size of the vise that would be handy using with!
Would this machine be a good candidate for that optical system you used on the metal planer?
You certainly could use it on this machine.
Wondering, how are the bearings in the spindle?
Also if you install the arbor and push and pull on it how does that pressure effect all the checks you made today?
Keep up the good work!
JIM
If the front ways is lower you might check the feet for leveling.
So....that answers my question of how to check for the two sets of ways being co-planer...YIKES! I'm not dumb, but wow, not a simple thing. Makes sense...very tedious work, not for the impatient for sure.
KEITH, TELL EVERYBODY HELLO, PET THE DOGS AND CATS, SEE YOU NEXT TIME...GREAT VIDEO, VERY INTERESTING...
Another great video, thanks. BTW, what is going on with Jimmy's band saw???
23:40 Keith does the Macarena
I worked in a job shop. We'd get rush jobs, put aside jobs for good, patient customers to get the rush jobs done. Way too often, the completed rush job would sit, ready to be picked up, for days, even weeks. I've never been in charge of billing but if I were, there'd be $100.00 a day charge for rush jobs not picked up after completion.
I worked in a place like that, we also had huge jobs that sat around for months that could have been steadily chipped away and finished without stress. But management left it to the last minute and required super human effort and overtime to complete. I left after 7 months.
I often asked the boss why we would piss off three good customers just to make one bad one happy. I never did understand it
When dropping of work, NEVER tell them it's not a rush or you stuff will sit, untouched while work for the whiny weasels who can't plan ahead gets done.
Is there no way to adjust the tower (column) to ways angle front to rear with shims where the tower is bolted to the bed? Is the tower (column) to bed attachment just machined surfaces with no way to adjust for squareness?
So cool. This is fascinating. It's amazing achieving such precision from these giant metal monsters. Thank you for your video. It is such a relief from the crazy world of the news channels. (Keith, do you have preferred pronouns?)
Do you mean is he a he/she? Lol
That is probably going to have better specs than,when it was new.
I used to do alignment of shafts and couplings of a lot of machinery but one day we got alignment to one thou, but the next day it was well out? What happened was tidal drift? The factory was built on the side of a tidal river and the land raised and fell due to the tides, real uncanny but it happened.
On the one hand I get it, I'm a hobbyist, if I do something and end up being .003 off I scratch my head, wonder why and then do it again to try better. But on the other hand, the stuff I work on is hobby sized, 2 or 3 inches is big to me. If I had a hobby piece and was off .003 over 15 inches, well, I am going to do backflips and bring the kids in to show them. Seriously, .0002 per inch is darn good. But it is a tool, and no work will be better than the tool is with any repeatability.
So, yeah, I get it.
Maybe I missed it, but I havven't seen you use the Kingway instrument. That should be useful for the kind of measuring you are doing today.
Keith, this is very interesting stuff. Thanks so much for sharing. I wonder if leveling of the machine is a part of this process and how it fits in with the scraping and checking you are doing?
What kind of plans/tools do you have for checking the Z-axis ways for their parralelism to each other on the full length of the ways?
As usual, fantastic work. Out of curiosity, would a Kingway device work well with this scraping in? With all the possible misalignment possibilities you mention, my head started to hurt. Keep it up this is great.
I would be interested to see if adding the weight of the table and saddle would take the .001 out, especially if with that machine being a long 3 point machine
If you use the head traveling on the column ways isn’t there a chance of introducing errors caused by the column ways being worn and/or by the fit of the head to the column? I’d be more interested at this point in statically checking the squareness of the column to the bed ways at the extremes of travel before spend a whole lot of time scraping anything too much. I’m not sure if an 18” granite square is large enough to do that. Laser or optical would do it relatively easily if you have access. Otherwise maybe precision levels?
Every time you stop to see “where we’re at,” my fourth-grade teacher says you are “behind the preposition.”
Would it be prudent to recheck the level especially between the column and the bed? It's not unreasonable that you could get a thou or two out of the bed by adjusting the feet down on the end.
What is your goal for the final x & y repeatability? Is +\- .001” (+/-025mm)? That’s pretty impressive for that machine
I'm guessing that when you get done. This machine will be more accurate than when it left the factory.
Keith,
Out of curiosity how do you know that the bed of the machine is truly rigid? Could there be a deflection coming from changes in weight from addition or subtraction of the table? Can there be deflections coming from the concrete floor? Also, have you considered using a 3D laser for measurement? Accuracy to 0.007mm and better are possible.
Bob
Any chance you can lower the tail end of the table?
Nope.
Question if your square reference is moving back due to vibration. Wouldn't it mean that it also could move/tilt left to right an screw with your measurements as well. I only saw one clamp or did I miss another one?
Nope, it's fine.
Might be time to check the leveling of the machine?
JIM
Keith, if you were to use engineers transit as an alternative way to check relative elevation differences, would that have enough accuracy to stay within tolerances? If so, I am thinking that could be easier and quicker to get the results. What do you think?
The autocolumnator is (sort of) a machinist's version of this.
Does the Saddle and Crosslide move during an Operation ?.
If not why does it have to br perfect ??
Thanks.
Mike M.
Keith, if you published a series of 4 hour long videos of you scraping this mill in I think we would watch and enjoy them. Don’t listen to the nay sayers.
The whole machine could be twisted from the floor.
What is going on with the stoker engine rebuild? I understand the Nashville group are making progress with the boiler and drivers among other aspects of the rebuild.
Do you need to re level?
What are those big bolts at the bottom of the headstock? I would expect that you could shim under the headstock to square it up to the ways instead of scraping and tapering the ways themselves...
I'd love to see this machine solve the Stoker Engine Restoration. Is there a reason you've not tried the Metal Planer for the job?
Yes!!!!! Once again the comment section comes through! 'Stoker question' every video for who know how long!! The drinking game goes on.....!
How do you know the inconsistent readings aren't in the head ways
So...when that machine was new, how good was it compared to how you'll get it?
He'll probably get it better.
.003" per 15" looks like quite a lot of scraping along the length of the bed... the column ways are a lot shorter and would require "less" scraping to get things square.
Is that your 9” straight edge😆
What going on with stroker motor
I think Keith needs this machine for the repair of the stroker
I need it in a month
It looks like it will be a very nice machine when it is done. That said it sounds like a bunch of scrap metal banging around in a cloths dryer. I have to turn down the sound so much I almost can't hear you talk when it is running. I hope this will be addressed during the rebuild.
That's the rattling of the verrtical lead screw in the threaded captive nut. No, it won't be addressed. It's just the way it is.
Headphones will help.
He wears the microphone on the top of his bib so it is very close to the operating system as he does the measuring. There is noise, but I believe there is considerable amplification into the video as well.
I honestly thought you would use the "scope" you used to check the ways on the planer for the boring mill.
Keith- is this how it was originally done?
Why don’t you use a laser seems to me would save a lot of time well once you get your parts in
Step by step reduce the error. You've already put it in a very good starting position.
Are you ever going to finish the Band saw? haven't seen it for quite while.
It occurs to me that Keith may need this machine to finish the bandsaw.
Why can’t you put the bed on the planer you restored mate?
...THAT'S EASIER SAID THAN DONE-(!)
I think it’s too heavy for the planer.
JIM
It would still have to be scraped after planing , this is the fine tuning stage , planning isn’t that accurate
I wondering how much wear is in column ??If there is a couple of 0.001 in it you will be chasing the rabbit.
Without Jesus, this could be an eternal damnation.
Ignorant question: Is it necessary that the machine be that noisy? Will it get quieter as you continue restoring it? I would expect a precision machine to purr not roar. It sounds like a lot of bushings are loose letting those rotating shafts flop around. (Said it was an ignorant question ;-)
You must have $millions of tools and test equipment?
That machine is very noisy, I imagine that the operators of the past had hearing problems by the time they retired
If you notice, he wears the microphone on the front of his bib. That is very near the operating parts of the machine as he is measuring. A lot of that noise is highly amplified.