Adam, it's a small thing but you seem to smile so much more now than you did a few years ago and I think I enjoy the videos more because you seem to be enjoying life more. Just an observation.
Oh boy, I remember the very first time I ever heard of scraping and saw it done. I was stunned. "What in the world are they doing?! Gouging metal randomly off of a perfectly flat ground bearing surface that's in a machine accurate to less than a thou? Is this a joke?" 😸 When I finally believed that craftsmen actually can get a hand scraped surface that's overall perfectly flat across the high spots, I also understood how the low spots held oil for decreased friction. I thought "just like jeweling a bolt action rifle bolt for oil retention and smooth sliding." It clicked, and now I think it's pretty neat. My first reaction was so funny though. Kinda like when you learn about stippling and watch a guy stab a soldering iron into a Glock for the first time. 😸
A model engineer here in the UK, 67 and retired now, always enjoy your videos, need the bits in my lathe your sort of size these days, my max was 3" diam!!! Caught this video at 27seconds after upload .... Keep safe...
Can't watch this team work without getting philosophical. Homo sapiens is the tool making animal. The swamp of politics is the lowest of human creations, the hands-on science of starting with three granite slabs and ending with a perfect machine surface is the peak. Thanks for the lessons.
I am green with envy. The man with the most tools wins! I want to retake those high school metal shop class and pay close attention, thanks Mr. Cullen.
Very cool Adam, I have never seen this done before. Now I understand those long straight edges that you showed in your Rockford 60" Openside Scraper unload video. Thanks very much for sharing.
My favorite of all time shaper. The only thing that could get better is the universal table vs the standard. But the standard table has its benefits as well , larger size for one. Thanks for sharing Adam. I really enjoyed the video. Shame we are so far away for you guys.
When I went through apprentice school at Cincinnati Milling Machine 50 years ago we had to learn to hand scrape. Power scrapeing is for whimps!! (LOL) Our ways were mostly planed and then scraped. If I remember correctly we had to have 8-10 rubbing spots per square inch using red lead.
Bob Geisler 8 to 10 per sq inch? That seems very small amount. They are working on a Minimum of 40 contact points per sq inch and that's the bare minimum having watched the earlier comments and practice videos that Lance and Adam have put up
@@samrodian919 The more spots the flatter the surface and less pockets for oil. This creates more slipstick and a jumpier motion. It will also wearout faster because the pockets are not as deep. The guys who did this were experts at creating a beautiful and consistant pattern all with a hand scraper. When I was a foreman I had one of the oldtimers scrape in the bearing seat on a Heald 60" vertical internal grinder to a table deflection of less than .0001".
@@lancebaltzley4770 Lance, if you'd like to have it, I'll give it to you. I think you will get much more good from it than I. Send me your address to mail@watchweswork.com and I'll ship it out to you.
I’m sure not getting much done today fellas. Started with SS, then WWW, Abom, Fenner put one out , Kilroy entered stage left and then realized Stephan had slipped one in on me. What a Saturday.
Waner &Swasey ground their bed ways but they were not flat . They used a five inch cup wheel and the spindle was tipped forward just enough to make it .0005 low in the center of the way surface. That was to keep the way oil from being squeezed out. The saddles were planned and then scrapped to a master gage . Finally the saddles were fine tuned scraped to the bed way in assembly . The bed ways were plained first from a raw casting which I did for almost a year. They were rough ground and finish ground later. In finish they were straight with in .0002" end to end. All way surfaces were parallel to one another with in .0002". I bid over to tool & cutter grinding which I was waiting for an opening for. Wonderful place to work and learn. It's a shame they went out of business. They made turret lathes that helped win two wars and had been in business nearly 100 years.
I ran the holy heck out of a No#3 &4 W/S Turret for over a decade, old & ugly but I knocked out more blanks then anybody on the newer machines as they would hog much stronger then any other Turret lathe if you knew how to sharpen the tools right ! and set the feeds& speeds correct for Stainless bars. Never used a machinist hand book to set them just watched the chip load & color and keep speeding up the feed at a low rpm. Them S /Ws would eat !
@@hydroy1 You are not the first person l herd this from. This was not a turret lathe but one of their slant bed lathes. They were in hurry and needed to cut down a spindle forging to the next smaller size and did it on one of their slant beds . To cut one sholder back they cut 1 inch a side in one pass deducing the diameter by 2 inches. Not one bit of chatter. You could hear the motor labor that's all. They made a helluva machine.
Wonderful to hear your story sir! I could read all you could write about working as a skilled craftsman who made machine tools. You are obviously very proud of your service with W&S, who I am afraid I have never heard of because I'm in the UK . I don't suppose too many of their machines got over this side of the pond especially as we had such a great heritage of British machine tool manufacturing
This video takes me back years when I visited a very large machine shop in the LA area. They had just finished having their Moore Jig Bore's ways scrapped. It was done by a team from Germany.
I can remember, when I was about 15 years old, watching a guy in my Vo-Tech class hind scraping a surface plate for a project. As I recall he was looking for 60 high spots per inch. What a tedious job.
Great work and nice explanations and content. I did my apprenticeship in the power stations and a lot of bench time introduced me to some vee way and white metal bearing maintenance. I can appreciate the work that goes into the whole process. Thank you.
Thank you Adam!!! Loved this video! Felt like I was on a mini-vacation! I really appreciated you showing all the steps and explaining everything (would be cool to see the wood shop and gallery too sometime). Really felt like I was enjoying a steak and a beer wit you guys - just awesome. Thanks!
This video was awesome! I had no idea that this was how this process was done. Super interesting! Our company builds custom lift tables like the one you were working on for the automotive industry...Usually pneumatic for the plants but we do air-over-oil and electric-hydraulic like that one as well. 👍
He has a video where he took a training class on this that goes pretty in depth and shows some of it being done by hand as I recall. It's pretty educational!
How did y'all get the ram off? I have a 32" that I just took possession of, and I don't know what it is, but I can't make the rocker arm lean forward far enough to clear the ram.
I completely understand hand scraping the ways having rebuilt many old Mills,Lathes and small surface grinders and would never leave a surface ground way as finish but a good job on the grinder puts me well within .0005 then start fine tuning with scraper this cut my time reworking ways by 50% or more.
Seeing that Polish American sure did remind me of my years in front of one I ran. Coal Mine fab/ repair shop in the Colorado high country!! Greeting to All!
Abom, I am restoring a 1962 Bridgeport and the table is bowed, would you scrap it back flat and how much would it cost me? I don't have a surface plate big enough or any straight edges. I am in MS and only 5 hrs from you in Pensacola.
i was one of them that questioned why not grind it? because i thought with it rough it will catch. then Adam explained it catches oil then it made sense.
@@nigelcraig3949 I thought a bit about that, and I think the proper way would be to measure the "conicity" (for lack of a better word). That is a problem itself. I tried to come up with a proper procedure, but it always comes down that it is just extremely amount of work and tooling to measure it. Nowadays I would assume that it would be the easiest to just laser scan it. Maybe laser interferometry, but would be kinda awful with the "dimples". That way we manufactured calibres for taper fits at my old job.
OK, how many of you guys have tinnitus? You are all amazing and the scope of this equipment is just astounding. I have a Harbor Freight lathe and mill. I wish I could ask my dad who passed in 1979 if he ever got to see any of these tools. He spent a lot of time in the Katy Yards in Waco, Texas so I am guessing he knows this stuff exists. It is just unfathomable to me. Love to watch though and I love it. //ji John in Oregon
Wish I could work with these tools and people. Would love to learn how to do all this stuff but im 35 allready with a fucked up back so a dream is all it will ever be for me.
I am not sure of the sequence of events here. Is the idea to get the dovetail face in one plane, then step scrape to get it parallel with the opposite dovetail and THEN align those with the base dovetail? This is where a guy like Richard was worth his weight in gold. Scraping itself is relatively easy, but the alignment is the mind bender.
At a guess, the only reason to compare the sides to each other at the start is to minimize the total material to be removed. Geometrically, you should be able to do two sides before even looking at the third, but if you just flatten out the second side, you might move it away from the third and add more work down the line. (But my training is as an engineer, which is to say even if I'm "technically correct", I'll still end up making life difficult for the person who has to actually build the thing.)
When that grill appeared I suddenly thought of Hank Hill and his propane and propane accessories... Bunch of guys standing outside the machine shop: "Yep." "Yep." "Yep." "I'll tell ya what..." "Yep..." :-)
Cool! Biax is great! I have their FR 8-12 lightweight air file and one of their 10mm handheld belt air sander! That tool you’re using looks scary. Is the blade like really really razor sharp to be able to cut the metal like it it?
I remember my dad had somebody come over when we got our Logan lathe and he scraped the ways like that and that's how I learned I've done several machine since then but I remember the guy saying something about ,calling it "chinking".... Does that sound familiar?
Any machinist should have a set of and should know that they can be “wrung”, i.e. twisted together on the flat surfaces so that they cling with 67 lbf pull. You do want this to happen with this surface. Scraping reduces the touching area to 1% of the nominal area, reducing the wrung friction by that much. The oil trapped in the dimples, acts as a non-compressible hydraulic surface with essentially zero friction.
Hey adamn the parallel you where doing on Instagram the spot to see if something is flush will you scrap something like or does cutter provide enough tolerance for what it needs. Thanks !
I was under the impression that flaking was used to ensure lubrication is distributed over a surface. Is there a different reason to flake the surface of the ram?
So if you could mount it in a surface grinder you could grind it flat then finish up with a scraper. Would that be quicker or not? I guess not cause fixture set up
as I understand it both scraping and flaking are used to hold and transfer oil? would it be correct to say that flaking is a finish design only? or do you have to flake a surface after you scrape it?
Nothing beats a productive day with good people... topped off with good eats! That's as good as it gets.
Watching and helping my Dad do this for almost 50 years, you guys take me back. Thanks guys!
Adam, it's a small thing but you seem to smile so much more now than you did a few years ago and I think I enjoy the videos more because you seem to be enjoying life more. Just an observation.
For what it's worth I feel the need to compliment you for your compliment there's not a lot of caring people on the internet these days
Oh boy, I remember the very first time I ever heard of scraping and saw it done. I was stunned. "What in the world are they doing?! Gouging metal randomly off of a perfectly flat ground bearing surface that's in a machine accurate to less than a thou? Is this a joke?" 😸 When I finally believed that craftsmen actually can get a hand scraped surface that's overall perfectly flat across the high spots, I also understood how the low spots held oil for decreased friction. I thought "just like jeweling a bolt action rifle bolt for oil retention and smooth sliding." It clicked, and now I think it's pretty neat. My first reaction was so funny though. Kinda like when you learn about stippling and watch a guy stab a soldering iron into a Glock for the first time. 😸
Great seeing all you guys working together to help out a buddy. Great machinist communitydown there.
A model engineer here in the UK, 67 and retired now, always enjoy your videos, need the bits in my lathe your sort of size these days, my max was 3" diam!!! Caught this video at 27seconds after upload .... Keep safe...
Can't watch this team work without getting philosophical. Homo sapiens is the tool making animal. The swamp of politics is the lowest of human creations, the hands-on science of starting with three granite slabs and ending with a perfect machine surface is the peak. Thanks for the lessons.
I worked with some old timers who worked at buffalo forge before it shut down. It’s cool to see the stuff they made still in use.
I am green with envy. The man with the most tools wins! I want to retake those high school metal shop class and pay close attention, thanks Mr. Cullen.
Very cool Adam, I have never seen this done before. Now I understand those long straight edges that you showed in your Rockford 60" Openside Scraper unload video. Thanks very much for sharing.
Lotta fellowship there which is nice to see. Like an old time barn raising...
agreed
Nice shout out to Wes, love his channel too.
Cool to see polish machine! Hi from Poland! Love your channel
Having that on a scissor lift is so nice
Biggest reason I love saturday nights nowadays: I get to watch you do something awesome while I wait to fall asleep!
You and many others! 😂
Thanks for letting me look over your shoulder once again,really appreciate your patients,makes you stand out from others.🤗🤗🤗
My favorite of all time shaper. The only thing that could get better is the universal table vs the standard. But the standard table has its benefits as well , larger size for one. Thanks for sharing Adam. I really enjoyed the video. Shame we are so far away for you guys.
Wes is an incredibly smart guy. i cant believe how many things he knows how to do.
When I went through apprentice school at Cincinnati Milling Machine 50 years ago we had to learn to hand scrape. Power scrapeing is for whimps!! (LOL) Our ways were mostly planed and then scraped. If I remember correctly we had to have 8-10 rubbing spots per square inch using red lead.
Bob Geisler 8 to 10 per sq inch? That seems very small amount. They are working on a Minimum of 40 contact points per sq inch and that's the bare minimum having watched the earlier comments and practice videos that Lance and Adam have put up
@@samrodian919 The more spots the flatter the surface and less pockets for oil. This creates more slipstick and a jumpier motion. It will also wearout faster because the pockets are not as deep. The guys who did this were experts at creating a beautiful and consistant pattern all with a hand scraper. When I was a foreman I had one of the oldtimers scrape in the bearing seat on a Heald 60" vertical internal grinder to a table deflection of less than .0001".
It's like mine except he actually finished his...
You're like me and hang in both automotive and machining group!
I've yet to actually get a scraper or a piece off metal to scrape
Hey Wes, send me yours and I'll finish it....
@@lancebaltzley4770 Lance, if you'd like to have it, I'll give it to you. I think you will get much more good from it than I. Send me your address to mail@watchweswork.com and I'll ship it out to you.
Wes, just sent you an email. At your RUclips email....
I remember when red lead was used as contrast. Nice job of scraping.
Really enjoyed the shop tour. It's so cool to see all those old beautiful machines still in service.
I’m sure not getting much done today fellas. Started with SS, then WWW, Abom, Fenner put one out , Kilroy entered stage left and then realized Stephan had slipped one in on me. What a Saturday.
Sorry, about the spelling STEFAN😬. And now TOT and Clough 42. Just getting better and better.
It's amazing that you can get such high accuracy with basically hand tools and a lot of time
That’s how this has worked for so long
Waner &Swasey ground their bed ways but they were not flat . They used a five inch cup wheel and the spindle was tipped forward just enough to make it .0005 low in the center of the way surface. That was to keep the way oil from being squeezed out. The saddles were planned and then scrapped to a master gage . Finally the saddles were fine tuned scraped to the bed way in assembly . The bed ways were plained first from a raw casting which I did for almost a year. They were rough ground and finish ground later. In finish they were straight with in .0002" end to end.
All way surfaces were parallel to one another with in .0002". I bid over to tool & cutter grinding which I was waiting for an opening for. Wonderful place to work and learn. It's a shame they went out of business. They made turret lathes that helped win two wars and had been in business nearly
100 years.
I ran the holy heck out of a No#3 &4 W/S Turret for over a decade, old & ugly but I knocked out more blanks then anybody on the newer machines as they would hog much stronger then any other Turret lathe if you knew how to sharpen the tools right ! and set the feeds& speeds correct for Stainless bars. Never used a machinist hand book to set them just watched the chip load & color and keep speeding up the feed at a low rpm. Them S /Ws would eat !
thank you for your info
@@hydroy1 You are not the first person l herd this from. This was not a turret lathe but one of their slant bed lathes. They were in hurry and needed to cut down a spindle forging to the next smaller size and did it on one of their slant beds . To cut one sholder back they cut 1 inch a side in one pass deducing the diameter by 2 inches. Not one bit of chatter. You could hear the motor labor that's all. They made a helluva machine.
Wonderful to hear your story sir! I could read all you could write about working as a skilled craftsman who made machine tools. You are obviously very proud of your service with W&S, who I am afraid I have never heard of because I'm in the UK . I don't suppose too many of their machines got over this side of the pond especially as we had such a great heritage of British machine tool manufacturing
@@samrodian919 Here is a W/S turret in action ---> ruclips.net/video/VSuDu47ln48/видео.html
Abom, Very interesting process, alot of work but worth the labor, thanks.
Hello Adam, that was a nice workshop come together ... great shop, too. Stefan,
Beautiful shop. Really enjoyed that. I need the ways on my old Bridgeport done.
Impressive hobby shop!!!!!!!
Sending Love for your love for machines from Florida......Cheers, you make my day seeing this, and put a smile on my face.....PB
Started tool making a long time ago, I am so glad these skills are still around. Cool stuff !
This video takes me back years when I visited a very large machine shop in the LA area. They had just finished having their Moore Jig Bore's ways scrapped. It was done by a team from Germany.
Watch Wes Work is a great channel.
Awesome shop tour Adam.
Thank you
The entire modern world is built on hand scraped machines. Thanks for sharing that magnificent shop.
You guys are awesome, continuously amazed over the amount of skill!! Slowly restoring my hope on mankind. 😁 Keep uploading these super clips.👍
I wonder how many steps Lance's Apple Watch said he'd done after that power scraping!
Outstanding shop 👍
Great video! Thank you so much! I’m retired and learning at a shop how to do this now..
Great to see you treating yourself to a little leisure time with good friends and prime ribeye.
Love Ya, never stop being Adam.
I can remember, when I was about 15 years old, watching a guy in my Vo-Tech class hind scraping a surface plate for a project. As I recall he was looking for 60 high spots per inch. What a tedious job.
Great work and nice explanations and content. I did my apprenticeship in the power stations and a lot of bench time introduced me to some vee way and white metal bearing maintenance. I can appreciate the work that goes into the whole process. Thank you.
mighty fine work going on and the scraping looks good to.. lol
Thank you Adam!!! Loved this video! Felt like I was on a mini-vacation! I really appreciated you showing all the steps and explaining everything (would be cool to see the wood shop and gallery too sometime). Really felt like I was enjoying a steak and a beer wit you guys - just awesome. Thanks!
This was very cool to see how you do this!
Your making me hungry with the steaks and I've just had my supper.
P.s. Great job with the scraping.
13:03 I love the wheel of fortune controls on that lathe
This video was awesome! I had no idea that this was how this process was done. Super interesting! Our company builds custom lift tables like the one you were working on for the automotive industry...Usually pneumatic for the plants but we do air-over-oil and electric-hydraulic like that one as well. 👍
Cool! Can you post of the make or company info?
I have never seen anything like these scrapers before. What a neat episode! Thank you for posting!!!
He has a video where he took a training class on this that goes pretty in depth and shows some of it being done by hand as I recall. It's pretty educational!
@@BLKMGK4 Thank you so much for explaining that to me! He is such a gifted, master craftsman!
And a big thank you to John for allowing the tour.
Thank you love this stuff
How did y'all get the ram off? I have a 32" that I just took possession of, and I don't know what it is, but I can't make the rocker arm lean forward far enough to clear the ram.
How long can you work that scraper before you get vibration white finger?
I completely understand hand scraping the ways having rebuilt many old Mills,Lathes and small surface grinders and would never leave a surface ground way as finish but a good job on the grinder
puts me well within .0005 then start fine tuning with scraper this cut my time reworking ways by 50% or more.
Sehr gut mach weiter so!!👍👍👍
At 31.08... I'll take the one on the left. Jacket potato with real butter.. English mature cheddar and a pot of coleslaw. High precision.
Love your videos too David.
Glad to see the old DSG make an appearance in the last one :)
That is an amazing process . good TV , thank you !
Seeing that Polish American sure did remind me of my years in front of one I ran. Coal Mine fab/ repair shop in the Colorado high country!! Greeting to All!
6:17 essential tools present, Kingway comparator, power scrapers, scraper blades, coffee whitener, Reese's peanut butter cups... :-)
Thanks Adam. That’s very interesting 👏👏👏👍🇬🇧
Love that barbecue
Love this channel someday I want to work in a machine shop
Love the content, I think it's awesome personally!.
I only have one suggestion... Ear Pro...
Considering you recently acquired two big shapers I foresee lots of scraping in your future Adam.
Abom,
I am restoring a 1962 Bridgeport and the table is bowed, would you scrap it back flat and how much would it cost me? I don't have a surface plate big enough or any straight edges. I am in MS and only 5 hrs from you in Pensacola.
Y’all make scrapping look easy
i was one of them that questioned why not grind it? because i thought with it rough it will catch. then Adam explained it catches oil then it made sense.
Wish you guys lived in the uk so you could help me scrap my old ward lathe back true the straight edges are so expensive great video guys
Good for you man
I dunno bout any one else, but to me... that Thompson was eye-popping.
I love that process, but I kept wondering, how do you make sure that both flanks are parallel and not "conical"?
@@nigelcraig3949 I thought a bit about that, and I think the proper way would be to measure the "conicity" (for lack of a better word).
That is a problem itself. I tried to come up with a proper procedure, but it always comes down that it is just extremely amount of work and tooling to measure it.
Nowadays I would assume that it would be the easiest to just laser scan it. Maybe laser interferometry, but would be kinda awful with the "dimples".
That way we manufactured calibres for taper fits at my old job.
I see no ear plug not for the noise of the scraping but the bad jokes of your friends 😉👍 nice video
A Biax isn't that loud.
Nice!!
Adam really loves all things machining......as a machinist myself, the last thing I want is a Biax.
OK, how many of you guys have tinnitus? You are all amazing and the scope of this equipment is just astounding.
I have a Harbor Freight lathe and mill. I wish I could ask my dad who passed in 1979 if he ever got to see any of these tools.
He spent a lot of time in the Katy Yards in Waco, Texas so I am guessing he knows this stuff exists. It is just unfathomable to me.
Love to watch though and I love it. //ji John in Oregon
Wish I could work with these tools and people. Would love to learn how to do all this stuff but im 35 allready with a fucked up back so a dream is all it will ever be for me.
I would love to see that wood shop,maybe they have some Oliver machines in there.
muy bueno ! hi from Uruguay
That polish mill is a Mechanicy, very tough mill. our k&t bit the dust before our mechanicy, we worked that mill allot harder aswell.
Nice stakes 🙂👍🏻👍🏻
The stakes are too high.
Yes Adam great day of work fun and food
Good show.
I am not sure of the sequence of events here. Is the idea to get the dovetail face in one plane, then step scrape to get it parallel with the opposite dovetail and THEN align those with the base dovetail? This is where a guy like Richard was worth his weight in gold. Scraping itself is relatively easy, but the alignment is the mind bender.
At a guess, the only reason to compare the sides to each other at the start is to minimize the total material to be removed. Geometrically, you should be able to do two sides before even looking at the third, but if you just flatten out the second side, you might move it away from the third and add more work down the line. (But my training is as an engineer, which is to say even if I'm "technically correct", I'll still end up making life difficult for the person who has to actually build the thing.)
You know a person takes care of their tools when rather old equipment looks basically brand new...
did you get a new camera, your video quality is looking clean. great job!
I’ve been using a Hero 8 for a couple months now
Abom79 looks awesome, great work.
When that grill appeared I suddenly thought of Hank Hill and his propane and propane accessories...
Bunch of guys standing outside the machine shop:
"Yep."
"Yep."
"Yep."
"I'll tell ya what..."
"Yep..."
:-)
I'm jealous! Nice shop!
Imponente trabajo!! Saludos desde uruguay
beautiful shop
Cool! Biax is great!
I have their FR 8-12 lightweight air file and one of their 10mm handheld belt air sander!
That tool you’re using looks scary. Is the blade like really really razor sharp to be able to cut the metal like it it?
That's turning out as nice as those steaks.
I remember my dad had somebody come over when we got our Logan lathe and he scraped the ways like that and that's how I learned I've done several machine since then but I remember the guy saying something about ,calling it "chinking".... Does that sound familiar?
John Terry went from playing for Chelsea to owning a workshop in America. I hope I’m not the only football(soccer) fan here 😂😂😂
Any machinist should have a set of and should know that they can be “wrung”, i.e. twisted together on the flat surfaces so that they cling with 67 lbf pull. You do want this to happen with this surface. Scraping reduces the touching area to 1% of the nominal area, reducing the wrung friction by that much. The oil trapped in the dimples, acts as a non-compressible hydraulic surface with essentially zero friction.
Hey adamn the parallel you where doing on Instagram the spot to see if something is flush will you scrap something like or does cutter provide enough tolerance for what it needs. Thanks !
I was under the impression that flaking was used to ensure lubrication is distributed over a surface. Is there a different reason to flake the surface of the ram?
Looks hehe
Beef! It does a body good :-)
It's what's for dinner, too. ;-)
Amen.
So if you could mount it in a surface grinder you could grind it flat then finish up with a scraper. Would that be quicker or not? I guess not cause fixture set up
And most surface grinders that aren't on an industrial scale wouldn't fit that massive casting.
as I understand it both scraping and flaking are used to hold and transfer oil? would it be correct to say that flaking is a finish design only? or do you have to flake a surface after you scrape it?
nice looking van Adam