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Something I WOULD LIKE to point out about your UAE shipped watch... I have recently got a few cheap fake gold rings which were from chinese ebay sellers and they come from UAE even though I'm in AUSTRALIA and China is closer. I even got a watch strap from there too, last week. I thought that was coming from china as well.
Everyone on here bashing affordable automatic watches I was where you are too I was in denial to spend a whole bunch of money on watches that are just going to drop that you thought we're going to hold their value denial is one of the hardest parts to get by it sucks when you get ripped off you know and you spend twenty-five thousand on a watch that you could have got for 500 I understand your anger you know I'd be pissed too and have two laptops one on each hand trying to prove it
For anyone wondering, we thought the strap had finally arrived. We paid the insane £40+ customs charge on the item, yet several weeks on and it still has not been delivered. Maybe I've fallen for some kind of scam?
Ben, you are actually doing journalism at this point. Your videos about the scams that constitute most of the "fashion timepiece" business is really good stuff. Kudos and keep these coming.
I came here to say the same thing but you beat me to it. Ben, hats off for decent investigative journalism and thoroughness. You followed up each lead and thread to arrive at a logical conclusion. Bravo.
Yep. And don't forget that the point of luxury items is being exclusive, they can be rubbish like gold plated old technology as long they are expensive.
@@Mmmmilo I was referring to gold plated or diamond I phones sold for hundreds of thousands by companies like Vertu. They probably do the same with apple watches.
Don't forget the word "premium" for literally any product. Even in countries with the best consumer protections on earth, the cheap rotgut Vodka at the supermarket is allowed to print "premium" on the bottle...
I keep getting emails from these kind of companies and simply ignore them. I love microbrands and the value they bring with styles of watches that are out of someones reach or the crazy original desings, but when I see these types, a generic design with a simple quartz at a HUGE price, i just don't respond. Your coverage of these is both very thorough and entertaining!! Also congrats in advance at reaching 100k, which is just around the corner 😁👍
Hilariously, if these guys went to the trouble of contacting some of the better AliExpress watchmakers, they probably COULD be making halfway decent watches that justify those costs.
@@MrMadvillan I Like Watches Gary and his business partner reached out to Cronos to build their original design for example. I'm sure you could cut a deal with the slightly lower tier guys like Pagani or Phylida if you really wanted, you know.
As someone who "tried" to start a microbrand i can give some insights into costs. A cheap PT5000 (ETA 2824-2 Clone) costs around 60€ The casts costs around 40-60€ (including the saphire cristal) Watch hands and face (without logo) come in at round 20€. So the cheapest they'd get for a very basic 3 Hand + Date watch is round 120€ production cost. when entering true "entry-level-luxury" te Eta 2824-2 costs around 200€. Development / RND Cost for Case and Watch design is more or less random, depending on who does it. Producing a custom case comes in around 50-80€ / pcs (in germany at least) for 500 pcs. Hope this may helps?
As a youtuber, I just want to offer my respect for how much work you put into this (and all) your content. People don't always know how much work it takes to create a video like this! Very interesting Ben! 👌
When I was just landing into the watch world I fell into this scam. Yep. A gold one with green dial. Came in after 1 month and one of the links was upside down, trying to put it back and it scratched. The gold patina went off like it was paper...never put it on my wrist, I was scared that other scratches may appear and I could no longer re-sell it. Never managed to sell it in the end... Now I enjoy my PRX, goodbye middle man lol
My condolences man... Even in the knock-off sneaker game one usually has more luck than that... You really couldn't even resell it for 30? I mean, it's gotta be worth 30 right?
Depending on your definition, you can get pretty luxurious watches for a relatively small amount of money (Grand Seiko or even higher-end watches from the Swatch group), but the entire idea of luxury contradicts the idea of affordability.
@@NatiiixLP true that,they are excellent watches. I have a casio edifice for which I paid less than 100 euros and it still feels so good and even elegant, but no one would see it as a luxury watch, but definitely a quality watch, maybe also a value watch. I think the 'middleman makes all the money' ads definitely sounds so funny to anyone who knows anything about watches(i have also thought this way unfortunately but never fell for it luckily ) A luxury watch definitely should use better materials , better quality of build, more exclusive types of mechanisms, better precision , generally longevity and also make an impression of something exclusive and exotic i think. 👍👍
Beggers belief how these charlatans are still selling watches, wish people would wise up and see these for what they are. Unoriginal, chinese made cheap watches. All they are good at is clever marketing. I know I cover a lot of homage watches but least they don't try and force feed you this nonsense. Great work uncovering this.
Great video as usual, Ben There are several problems with these fashion brands: 1- They taint the micro brand industry as a whole. There are serious brands offering good products. But these “fashion brands” questionable marketing tactics, products quality and business practices cast a shadow over the whole industry. 2- They are not scammers in the strict sense. They sell you a watch as promised. It is true, all the hoopla surrounding the product is fake. But as long as the product exists and works, it is not a scam. 3- They will continue appearing until the public is more educated and/or there is a saturation. But there are always going to be people willing to fall for their tricks. As PT Barnum allegedly said “there is a sucker born every minute”
These are not “fashion brands” Fashion brands are cartier, maybe fossil, even gucci and similar. These are just money grabs lol. I was surprised that it was as usable as it is.
@@melody3741 Well, did you see the amount of money their kickstarter pulled in? Same for other "scam" brands like MVMT or Daniel Wellington. Hundreds of millions of dollars of sales (DW is worth like $200m). These are economics people who discovered a way to make money fast, promoting their watches to influencers and their huge instagram followings. It's a viable tactic I suppose.
I strongly disagree with your restriction of the definition of a scam. If a salesman blatantly misrepresents what his product factually is, e.g. selling a Ferrari whose engine has been replaced with that of a Toyota, or say shipping many iterations of a (subtly) defective product (especially with the intention that the customer must return to a shop for repairs/updates), that too is a scam. Just because it isn't a case of obvious theft where the con artist absconds with your money and leaves you empty handed doesn't mean you aren't being stolen from all the same. I get that half of marketing nowadays is various degrees of misrepresentation of the product or doing your best to conceal the negative and/or harmful aspects of your products, which essentially makes any consumerist/capitalist venture some shade of less-than-honest manipulation, but that's consumerist capitalism baby.
Ben, you're thorough in your research, funny in your delivery and no-nonsense about the information you deliver. Your content is just pure quality and it fills a crucial gap in the watch world: that price margin where the most shameless scamsters coexist with the best cost/quality ratio offerings from respected and well-established brands. It's also the price bracket most average young watch enthusiasts will realistically be looking at. Thank you so much for putting so much effort into such necessary content.
Great exposé Ben. Definitely a masterclass in investigative journalism. As a side issue, for those of us like you who have no female fashion sense, a video listing a few woman’s watches would be something different and would definitely help in Christmas pressie hunting. Don’t see any reviewer who does ‘female’ watches.
Ben, Did you also notice these watch (and razor) companies also say it "disrupts" the watch (or razor) industry. You are doing investigative journalism at this point. Well done. Thanks. Ian
A brilliant video Ben. I’m fed up of seeing this type of scam adverts so I am pleased that one of you review channels have picked this subject up and ran with it to inform / expose what it’s all about. Well done sir.
The worst part is most these people wont even listen, "No, my exquisite Daniel Wellingtom is for sure head and shoulders over that cheap casio your sporting. Pff, what do you think I am, a moron?" "Eh.......yes?" Morons can be really hard to convince, trust me on that, I've tried.
Tell your friends to get their watches appraised if they're so confident. Make sure to record the interaction, it'd be great content to share that other people can also share
Thank Ben, I wish some of my friends would tune in to your videos, I was with a friend having dinner and they had a Vincero and I was wearing my Casio Edifice his girlfriend of course preferred the styling of his watch of course over my boring Edifice but, in my mind I think of the build quality the value of my Edifice was better. When asked how much was his watch he bragged cost him over $250 my EF527D-1AV was $170.. Unless you understand the scams with these companies there is no limits to how they can rip people off. Thanks again for a very informative video.
@@alexandrupara4574 Why would I base my life's value on a friends choice on a watch? Ever occurred to you he may not be a watch collector and he liked the look of it, who cares?!?. The purpose of the exercise is educating so they understand how this all works...my life's value?! I can think of more important reasons to consider choices when it comes to "my life values" and when it comes to choosing my friends.. I hope you do the same.
I hope you destroyed the shit out of him for bragging about garbage. Hit em with the facts! Obviosuly just a "subtle roast" because you might not wanna destroy that friendship, idk.
An excellent video Ben. Unfortunately (anti) social media seems to be able to dupe those not in the watch enthusiast hobby into throwing money away to these sca... merchants who are woefully ripping off purchasers. Actually it's probably putting people off buying another watch in the future effectively putting any interest in watches not only onto the back burner but shoving is way behind the back of the cooker. Unfortunately it targets those who probably have the least disposable cash making there situation worse.
Fantastic video and in-depth information! Just to add a thought to the 'affordable luxury' discussion: there is not authority that dictates what can and can't be called a 'luxury watch'. Just recently, I heard somebody call a basic quartz Tissot a luxury watch. For that person, I think the 'affordable luxury' claim made by a brand like Valuchi might actually hold true. They make watches that cost less than that Tissot, and for many (including myself actually) look better. Yes, their movements are worse, but to someone who calls a Tissot a luxury watch, that means nothing. I don't consider these watches luxurious in any way, but my point is it might not matter to their target audience. They aim to attract people who are just looking for a good looking watch, and to whom a £400 Tissot and a £10000 Rolex are both 'luxury watches'. And this is probably most of the world's population.
really glad I found your channel, I'm looking to starting a collection of watches. btw the video editing is higher quality that the valuchi brand as an entirety.
The defining characteristic of a "luxury" anything is exclusivity conferred by high price that excludes most people from being able to access the product.
Thanks Ben... Sad that such scams still exist. I would never buy watch to "impress" someone, I rather spent similar money on 11/11 sale on Sugess Lunar phase mechanical chronograph with Sea-Gull ST1908 movement and swan neck adjustment. Pure China without the Dutch and Indiegogo middlemen :)
Great video!! I would say Omega, Tudor, and Tag Heuer are “affordable luxury.” If they are still too expensive for someone then you shouldn’t be buying a “luxury watch.” Seiko, citizen, Bulova, Timex, Casio all make solid affordable watches and are miles away from this crap that Filipo Loreti and Valuchi offer.
i found this channel because i was going to buy a MVMT watch and at the last moment I decided to check out a review. saw what you had to say (thank god) and now I'm looking at an orient open heart. your vids are saving people from these crappy companies so keep it up!
Love it when Ben takes the absolute piss off these watch 'brands'. They are committing fraud and we need Thnak Ben for the work he's putting to expose these jokers.
When I started liking watches I stumbled across Filippo Loreti and didn’t know much about watches and bought one. It took about eight months to get here. And I told her the shipping said two weeks and she said that’s only on certain models, to look at the wording there’s only a couple of them that that applies to. I’ve been trying to sell the damn watch for two years now with no luck lol. Even tried to throw in a mesh watch strap to sweeten the deal lol
If something is affordable, it's not luxury. If it's luxury, it's not affordable. It's that simple. However, when it comes to spaghetti scameti, then you can definitly have both! Still waiting on it to arrive though...
watching this, while wearing an entry level luxury swiss watch with an integrated leather bracelet and an overall genta feeling that costs around 1,5 grand. (Maurice Lacroix Aikon) - yeah deffenetly Valuchi is on the same level of watchmaking... damn, i feel screwed now xD
In the watch advertisement at the beginning when they were talking about the "Italian hand-picked leather". It reminded me of the old Chrysler commercials with Ricardo Montalban and his total BS line "fine Corinthian leather".
I understand that these watches are considered fast fashion watches. But a lot of people can’t afford luxury watches, just like how a lot of people can’t afford a regular couch without having to put a bed sheet over it. All in all I think people should buy what makes them happy and not be afraid to be judged by watch snobs, or any snob for that matter.
I just bought a Seiko SNE047 from Watch Shop on the strength of this recommendation 👍 I'm fairly new to horology and I really like your down-to-earth, no nonsense style. Keep up the good work!
Hey, Ben! Great video as always! A thought, because I think it could be helpful: you do a great job of throwing share and tearing apart terrible brands, but sometimes it's unclear what to expect from the brands that are actually doing it right. Would love to hear these included more often in these reviews, like the Casio comparison at the end! If there is an example of an obvious knock at an "affordable luxury" brand, what is usually the expectation of the luxury equivalent for a point of reference? For example, you've got brands like MVMT and DW doing lazy generic minimalism, but what makes the comparison brands (e.g. Junghans and Nomos or even a Patek Calatrava) so far superior in their successful execution of minimalism? Additionally, what differentiates cheap low quality quartz from high quality modules, or even luxury quartz like Grand Seiko or Cartier's? The Casio comparisons are a great move with this, so thank you for that!
I bought a Valuchi just before they first sent out their first shipment it took 3 months before I got my watch, when it arrived the second hand wobbled and I wasn't the only one experiencing this fault and they would do shit to replace the watches. at the time of purchase I was very very new into wanting and buying watches and my Valuchi was my 2nd watch next to some quicksilver watch I had gotten for Christmas. it was a harsh and somewhat crushing realisation when I figured out what I had gotten but I beleive I've learnt from it and now I've got a couple pretty nice Seiko's and Citezen watches as my nicer going out watches, and i firmly beleive that my Invicta Pro Driver is 1000% better than my Valuchi and I just use the invicta as a flashy watch I wear to work that I don't mind if it gets banged about and broken over! plus at least the invicta is comfortable on the wrist...
Hi Ben, I have a question? There's this German brand, I think it's a Startup, it is called Lilienthal Berlin. I like the design of their watches and they are affordable to medium range in pricing. Please review one of them, maybe the L1.
in all areas of fashion, big brands rip off designs from small startups with no compunction (or compensation) So it's a safer bet for small startups to simply rip off designs from established brands until they themselves become prominent enough to be accepted as trend setters
I wear a Chinese quartz Rolex Milgauss copy. It is well made and I have had no issues with it in 5 years. If I had the money, I would buy a real one, but I don't. Watches should be bought for their looks. If Timex made a Milguass, I would buy it. Most people don't even notice a very expensive watch, so what does it matter? I have my eye on a Chinese Tudor Black Bay as well. (about $30) !! As long as it keeps time It's good enough. It's not fault if I have champagne tastes but lemonade money.
@@johnadams-wp2yb You have a rather miserable outlook on life in how you spend your money, but I respect your stance on "affordable luxury" belief. Rock on and don't let anyone else dictate how you spend your blood and sweat cash that you can use to buy affordable quality food and retirement investments. =)
Big difference between direct to customer is the cost and advertising, I bought a Christopher ward directly from CW online, cuts the cost yes but CW doesn’t make that their sole selling point. They do it because it makes sense, valuchi does it because letting you know makes money. And with the CW you actually get high level quality
What a delight. It's gotten to the point where you're searching consciously to stop all them scammers. This is some quality content, people. I'm getting a Spaghetti just to support the channel.
Hiya mate you probably won’t see this but I love the vids and was wondering if you were gonna do a vid on sekonda watches as I have seen a lot of RUclips ads for them recently and wanted to see what they are really like apparently they are a brand that has been around for a while
I bought a Forge and Foster for around $200 when it was on sale. I don't remember them having any of that cut out the middleman stuff. I got it promptly, it looks / works great for me, and their customer service was very responsive. I wanted an industrial / modern skeletonized automatic for around $200 and I don't think there are many better options. I agree that some of these other ones are outright scams, but just thought I'd drop my thoughts on Forge and Foster.
Now I think of it, when I go to a city, I enjoy a bit of window shopping, looking at some pieces from expensive brands... so I guess the middle man is rather nice to have. It's also a place where you can give your watch for maintenance.
I spotted that the brand Waldor & Co, that popped up as a tangent, is Swedish, so I had a look at their reported earnings (profit in parantheses): 2017: 10.8 MSEK (1.2) 2018: 12.5 MSEK (0.9) 2019: 16.7 MSEK (2.3) 2020: 31.8 MSEK (4.2) 1 MSEK is about 100k EUR. Evidently, it's highly profitable for the amount of work you put in. The founder also runs an e-commerce business, so it's up his alley. I'm guessing the same story applies to all these faux-luxury watch brands.
Great review Ben, you killed it with this one! Love how your not afraid to say what you think, with hardly any filter. On another note, what do you think of Caravelle/Caravelle New York by Bulova? Atleast they dont claim "luxury". To me it seems as reasonable priced original designs. Not seiko level, and probably all chinese assembly, but they do have a few automatics, plus the quartz ones can be had for around $50-60, so budget for sure. But budget garbage, or budget original design + adequate quality?
@10:45 Lios is a watch designer AND a PA at the same time... Talk about two different ends of the spectrum in terms of job scopes.. mind = blown.. Edit: Oops.. I'm mistaken. Apparently according to Valuchi, it's Personal 'Assistent'...
I have a G-shock and a Police Batman Vengeance edition watch :) considering buying a Seiko, a simple and classy looking one :) definetly wont go with a social media sponsored brand, nice vid
The established brands are little better. They con us by having short production runs and limiting availability country by country. What is available in Japan may not be available in the U.S; what is available in the U.S may not be sold in the e.u. Add to that Amazon listing watches that are anything up to 10 years out of date and buying is not the pleasurable experience that it should be. Finally it should not be beyond the capability of the manufacturers to produce watches in a wider range of case sizes as well as being given the choice between quartz and mechanical movements. Increasingly they are fixated in only making products in oversized cases. My enthusiasm for watches is rapidly diminishing and I can see myself spending my money elsewhere.
Another great video. Thank you so much for putting in all this time and effort, I really appreciate it. Have you ever heard of 'Trend-Design' watches? They are clearly fashion watches and only cost 12 Euros! This is absolutely no rip-off. I bought one 3 years ago just because I really liked the design, never expected it to last very long. Yet here we are: after 3 years the watch still looks decent and runs. I replaced the battery for the first time last week and was surprised to find a CASIO movement inside, the same is in the MRW-200H. The case seems to be aluminum, but the case back is steel. There is a fake leather strap that now looks very used, but is still in good order. It wears really comfy because it is so lightweight and thin. It seems that these watches are only sold in special display cases in supermarkets and malls. The website claims they are sold all over Europe but I dont know if in the UK as well. If you should have the opportunity to buy one I think a test would be quite fun. This is not advertisement and I am not related to that company whatsoever. I just think they are surprisingly good for 12 Euros (I only paid 10 Euros 3 years ago).
the 'cutting out the middleman' model works in some areas (thursday boots use that marketing, and they make pretty good boots) so i can see why it's being exploited by scammers
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Something I WOULD LIKE to point out about your UAE shipped watch... I have recently got a few cheap fake gold rings which were from chinese ebay sellers and they come from UAE even though I'm in AUSTRALIA and China is closer. I even got a watch strap from there too, last week. I thought that was coming from china as well.
Everyone on here bashing affordable automatic watches I was where you are too I was in denial to spend a whole bunch of money on watches that are just going to drop that you thought we're going to hold their value denial is one of the hardest parts to get by it sucks when you get ripped off you know and you spend twenty-five thousand on a watch that you could have got for 500 I understand your anger you know I'd be pissed too and have two laptops one on each hand trying to prove it
For anyone wondering, we thought the strap had finally arrived. We paid the insane £40+ customs charge on the item, yet several weeks on and it still has not been delivered. Maybe I've fallen for some kind of scam?
@@OffGridInvestor 1
@@NobleKnowledgeofphilly he doesn't bash cheap watches (you'll know if you watch his other videos). And the valuchis movement is quartz btw
Ben, you are actually doing journalism at this point. Your videos about the scams that constitute most of the "fashion timepiece" business is really good stuff. Kudos and keep these coming.
Ben is the best channel for this kinda watch journalism no bs
Totally agree. Ben is a good Dude.
And honest!
👏
I came here to say the same thing but you beat me to it.
Ben, hats off for decent investigative journalism and thoroughness. You followed up each lead and thread to arrive at a logical conclusion. Bravo.
Any product deliberately described in its advertising as 'luxury', 'artisanal' or 'connoisseur' is an immediate red flag to the potential purchaser.
Yep. And don't forget that the point of luxury items is being exclusive, they can be rubbish like gold plated old technology as long they are expensive.
@@PabloSanchez-qu6ib what luxury watches have “gold plated old technology”?
@@Mmmmilo I was referring to gold plated or diamond I phones sold for hundreds of thousands by companies like Vertu. They probably do the same with apple watches.
Like “surgical stainless” is to knives. Never has there ever been anything even close to quality or value with those words attached.
Don't forget the word "premium" for literally any product. Even in countries with the best consumer protections on earth, the cheap rotgut Vodka at the supermarket is allowed to print "premium" on the bottle...
I keep getting emails from these kind of companies and simply ignore them.
I love microbrands and the value they bring with styles of watches that are out of someones reach or the crazy original desings, but when I see these types, a generic design with a simple quartz at a HUGE price, i just don't respond.
Your coverage of these is both very thorough and entertaining!!
Also congrats in advance at reaching 100k, which is just around the corner 😁👍
You too Watch Geek!
Hilariously, if these guys went to the trouble of contacting some of the better AliExpress watchmakers, they probably COULD be making halfway decent watches that justify those costs.
yeah drop shipping is pretty insidious and apparently people can make enough money to justify the practice.
@@MrMadvillan I Like Watches Gary and his business partner reached out to Cronos to build their original design for example. I'm sure you could cut a deal with the slightly lower tier guys like Pagani or Phylida if you really wanted, you know.
It is a superb point. Quartz can be luxerious but not these bog standard movements
I live in Qatar, so I'll go and check if the store mentioned at 11:39 actually sells those watches. I'll update you guys in the replies soon
That would be cool of you!
Please do! I’m an American revert and want to go to Qatar so bad. It’s my dream lol 🥲
Following
Haha, a wild goose chase, love it!
Bump
As someone who "tried" to start a microbrand i can give some insights into costs.
A cheap PT5000 (ETA 2824-2 Clone) costs around 60€
The casts costs around 40-60€ (including the saphire cristal)
Watch hands and face (without logo) come in at round 20€.
So the cheapest they'd get for a very basic 3 Hand + Date watch is round 120€ production cost.
when entering true "entry-level-luxury" te Eta 2824-2 costs around 200€. Development / RND Cost for Case and Watch design is more or less random, depending on who does it.
Producing a custom case comes in around 50-80€ / pcs (in germany at least) for 500 pcs.
Hope this may helps?
As a youtuber, I just want to offer my respect for how much work you put into this (and all) your content. People don't always know how much work it takes to create a video like this! Very interesting Ben! 👌
I appreciate that!
I even started wondering where Ben has gone, where are new videos? And now I see where the time was put. Incredible content, Ben.
@@TomasWatchReviews i agree, it shows that quality over quantity is best.
@watch me with watches always 👍
The phrase “Affordable Luxury” is a paradox in and of itself!
When I was just landing into the watch world I fell into this scam. Yep. A gold one with green dial. Came in after 1 month and one of the links was upside down, trying to put it back and it scratched. The gold patina went off like it was paper...never put it on my wrist, I was scared that other scratches may appear and I could no longer re-sell it. Never managed to sell it in the end... Now I enjoy my PRX, goodbye middle man lol
My condolences man... Even in the knock-off sneaker game one usually has more luck than that... You really couldn't even resell it for 30? I mean, it's gotta be worth 30 right?
"Valuchi"? Sounds a bit like "value" plus something Italian, yet means absolutely nothing in Italian.
In Italian it is pronounced "Vah-Loo-Key" which sounds like someone's surname.
Does a luxury watch has to be expensive?
Yes LOL.
Yes. That is why they sell old iPhones for tens of thousands by adding mostly ugly bling. Not everyone with money is smart.
Depending on your definition, you can get pretty luxurious watches for a relatively small amount of money (Grand Seiko or even higher-end watches from the Swatch group), but the entire idea of luxury contradicts the idea of affordability.
@@NatiiixLP true that,they are excellent watches. I have a casio edifice for which I paid less than 100 euros and it still feels so good and even elegant, but no one would see it as a luxury watch, but definitely a quality watch, maybe also a value watch.
I think the 'middleman makes all the money' ads definitely sounds so funny to anyone who knows anything about watches(i have also thought this way unfortunately but never fell for it luckily )
A luxury watch definitely should use better materials , better quality of build, more exclusive types of mechanisms, better precision , generally longevity and also make an impression of something exclusive and exotic i think.
👍👍
Kind-of the point of luxury, innit?
@@AKM93 That description sounds like a casio to me, atleast if one consider alternatives at the same price.
Beggers belief how these charlatans are still selling watches, wish people would wise up and see these for what they are. Unoriginal, chinese made cheap watches. All they are good at is clever marketing.
I know I cover a lot of homage watches but least they don't try and force feed you this nonsense. Great work uncovering this.
They are hand crafted by Chinese Italian created at the far east :D
@@tanhockjun exactly, 🤣
"All they are good at is clever marketing." It's not even that clever anymore.
@@caktaylor no idea how long they're going to use this kind of marketing
The Chinese homage watches, are in the main reasonably well made, often using Seiko movements.
Great video as usual, Ben
There are several problems with these fashion brands:
1- They taint the micro brand industry as a whole. There are serious brands offering good products. But these “fashion brands” questionable marketing tactics, products quality and business practices cast a shadow over the whole industry.
2- They are not scammers in the strict sense. They sell you a watch as promised. It is true, all the hoopla surrounding the product is fake. But as long as the product exists and works, it is not a scam.
3- They will continue appearing until the public is more educated and/or there is a saturation. But there are always going to be people willing to fall for their tricks. As PT Barnum allegedly said “there is a sucker born every minute”
These are not “fashion brands”
Fashion brands are cartier, maybe fossil, even gucci and similar. These are just money grabs lol. I was surprised that it was as usable as it is.
@@melody3741 Well, did you see the amount of money their kickstarter pulled in? Same for other "scam" brands like MVMT or Daniel Wellington. Hundreds of millions of dollars of sales (DW is worth like $200m). These are economics people who discovered a way to make money fast, promoting their watches to influencers and their huge instagram followings. It's a viable tactic I suppose.
@@melody3741Technically Cartier did give us the first pilot watch in the form of the Santos.
I strongly disagree with your restriction of the definition of a scam. If a salesman blatantly misrepresents what his product factually is, e.g. selling a Ferrari whose engine has been replaced with that of a Toyota, or say shipping many iterations of a (subtly) defective product (especially with the intention that the customer must return to a shop for repairs/updates), that too is a scam. Just because it isn't a case of obvious theft where the con artist absconds with your money and leaves you empty handed doesn't mean you aren't being stolen from all the same. I get that half of marketing nowadays is various degrees of misrepresentation of the product or doing your best to conceal the negative and/or harmful aspects of your products, which essentially makes any consumerist/capitalist venture some shade of less-than-honest manipulation, but that's consumerist capitalism baby.
I’ve gone down such a strange rabbit hole of watch videos. I never thought I’d find it so interesting! This video is my favourite so far 😭🤣
Ben, you're thorough in your research, funny in your delivery and no-nonsense about the information you deliver. Your content is just pure quality and it fills a crucial gap in the watch world: that price margin where the most shameless scamsters coexist with the best cost/quality ratio offerings from respected and well-established brands. It's also the price bracket most average young watch enthusiasts will realistically be looking at. Thank you so much for putting so much effort into such necessary content.
Just got a vincero ad while watching this….and apparently, they too are cutting middle men!
Great exposé Ben. Definitely a masterclass in investigative journalism.
As a side issue, for those of us like you who have no female fashion sense, a video listing a few woman’s watches would be something different and would definitely help in Christmas pressie hunting. Don’t see any reviewer who does ‘female’ watches.
Not Ben but as a woman who likes watches, why not go see Orient Happy Stream or Seiko Lukia line? Feminine yet great quality watches.
Great point
Where are these women who willingly wear wristwatches?
@@BillLaBrie 😂
@@BillLaBrie i saw a pharmacist wearing a sleek Rado a few days ago.
Ben,
Did you also notice these watch (and razor) companies also say it "disrupts" the watch (or razor) industry.
You are doing investigative journalism at this point. Well done.
Thanks.
Ian
10:00 props to you using Lenmino's music for the background👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
A brilliant video Ben. I’m fed up of seeing this type of scam adverts so I am pleased that one of you review channels have picked this subject up and ran with it to inform / expose what it’s all about.
Well done sir.
I was very sad to see one of my friends brandishing a Filipo Loretti recently, along with others with MVMTs and Vinceros. Keep doing this Ben.
Talk to your friends and inform them that they're getting ripped off.
You should have pulled out your god-tier $20 G-Shock and kindly explained to them what a marketing scam is.
The worst part is most these people wont even listen, "No, my exquisite Daniel Wellingtom is for sure head and shoulders over that cheap casio your sporting. Pff, what do you think I am, a moron?" "Eh.......yes?" Morons can be really hard to convince, trust me on that, I've tried.
Tell your friends to get their watches appraised if they're so confident.
Make sure to record the interaction, it'd be great content to share that other people can also share
Friends don't let friends purchase grossly inferior watches.
Thank Ben, I wish some of my friends would tune in to your videos, I was with a friend having dinner and they had a Vincero and I was wearing my Casio Edifice his girlfriend of course preferred the styling of his watch of course over my boring Edifice but, in my mind I think of the build quality the value of my Edifice was better. When asked how much was his watch he bragged cost him over $250 my EF527D-1AV was $170.. Unless you understand the scams with these companies there is no limits to how they can rip people off. Thanks again for a very informative video.
If you find friendship in people like him, you should really reconsider your life's values.
@@alexandrupara4574 Why would I base my life's value on a friends choice on a watch? Ever occurred to you he may not be a watch collector and he liked the look of it, who cares?!?. The purpose of the exercise is educating so they understand how this all works...my life's value?! I can think of more important reasons to consider choices when it comes to "my life values" and when it comes to choosing my friends.. I hope you do the same.
@@michaelanthony5441 I think he was trying to be funny.
@@garyboyle695 If that was the case then I apologize Alexandru.
I hope you destroyed the shit out of him for bragging about garbage. Hit em with the facts! Obviosuly just a "subtle roast" because you might not wanna destroy that friendship, idk.
I blame DW for this garbage. They started it. I bet 20 years from now collectors will be thrilled to own one
I highly doubt it.
I doubt a DW watch would last 20 years
An excellent video Ben. Unfortunately (anti) social media seems to be able to dupe those not in the watch enthusiast hobby into throwing money away to these sca... merchants who are woefully ripping off purchasers. Actually it's probably putting people off buying another watch in the future effectively putting any interest in watches not only onto the back burner but shoving is way behind the back of the cooker. Unfortunately it targets those who probably have the least disposable cash making there situation worse.
Fantastic video and in-depth information!
Just to add a thought to the 'affordable luxury' discussion: there is not authority that dictates what can and can't be called a 'luxury watch'. Just recently, I heard somebody call a basic quartz Tissot a luxury watch. For that person, I think the 'affordable luxury' claim made by a brand like Valuchi might actually hold true. They make watches that cost less than that Tissot, and for many (including myself actually) look better. Yes, their movements are worse, but to someone who calls a Tissot a luxury watch, that means nothing.
I don't consider these watches luxurious in any way, but my point is it might not matter to their target audience. They aim to attract people who are just looking for a good looking watch, and to whom a £400 Tissot and a £10000 Rolex are both 'luxury watches'. And this is probably most of the world's population.
really glad I found your channel, I'm looking to starting a collection of watches. btw the video editing is higher quality that the valuchi brand as an entirety.
The defining characteristic of a "luxury" anything is exclusivity conferred by high price that excludes most people from being able to access the product.
luxury debt
Not really. If I sold you an Alfa Romeo for 5 bucks it would still be luxury.
But the key question is, would 'ya?
lmao at that review. "Looks like a $10000+ luxury watch and I prefer it over my Rolex". Seems legit. And that reviewer's name? Albert Einstein.
Thanks Ben... Sad that such scams still exist. I would never buy watch to "impress" someone, I rather spent similar money on 11/11 sale on Sugess Lunar phase mechanical chronograph with Sea-Gull ST1908 movement and swan neck adjustment. Pure China without the Dutch and Indiegogo middlemen :)
Just ordered that exact same watch!
RUclips is a better journalism platform than news channel. This man just tore apart a whole brand.
Whilst out window shopping I saw in a local jewellers a second hand DW price £95.00 I kid you not! Stay Safe!!
I think they pay you £95 to take it off their hands.
Great video!! I would say Omega, Tudor, and Tag Heuer are “affordable luxury.” If they are still too expensive for someone then you shouldn’t be buying a “luxury watch.” Seiko, citizen, Bulova, Timex, Casio all make solid affordable watches and are miles away from this crap that Filipo Loreti and Valuchi offer.
i found this channel because i was going to buy a MVMT watch and at the last moment I decided to check out a review. saw what you had to say (thank god) and now I'm looking at an orient open heart. your vids are saving people from these crappy companies so keep it up!
Love it when Ben takes the absolute piss off these watch 'brands'. They are committing fraud and we need Thnak Ben for the work he's putting to expose these jokers.
When I started liking watches I stumbled across Filippo Loreti and didn’t know much about watches and bought one. It took about eight months to get here. And I told her the shipping said two weeks and she said that’s only on certain models, to look at the wording there’s only a couple of them that that applies to. I’ve been trying to sell the damn watch for two years now with no luck lol. Even tried to throw in a mesh watch strap to sweeten the deal lol
I just love videos like this - could watch them endlessly. So well made. Thanks Ben!
Your production quality is outstanding. Congrats on your YT success.
If something is affordable, it's not luxury.
If it's luxury, it's not affordable.
It's that simple.
However, when it comes to spaghetti scameti, then you can definitly have both!
Still waiting on it to arrive though...
9:09 lol is that the Cicada 3301 song in the background? xD
Casio is not a luxury brand, but they do make god tier watches. I recently got the GM-2100 in silver and blue, love them both.
Looks like they both ripped off spaghetti scameti if you ask me...
Clearly, they are just trolling us at this point.
watching this, while wearing an entry level luxury swiss watch with an integrated leather bracelet and an overall genta feeling that costs around 1,5 grand. (Maurice Lacroix Aikon) - yeah deffenetly Valuchi is on the same level of watchmaking... damn, i feel screwed now xD
Ben great video! Loved the whole thing. Reverse image search was good idea. Happy to see these brands exposed.
In the watch advertisement at the beginning when they were talking about the "Italian hand-picked leather".
It reminded me of the old Chrysler commercials with Ricardo Montalban and his total BS line "fine Corinthian leather".
4:56 I assume that they're talking about the "brand tax", i.e. paying more for, say, a Rolex just because it's Rolex branded.
I understand that these watches are considered fast fashion watches. But a lot of people can’t afford luxury watches, just like how a lot of people can’t afford a regular couch without having to put a bed sheet over it.
All in all I think people should buy what makes them happy and not be afraid to be judged by watch snobs, or any snob for that matter.
I just bought a Seiko SNE047 from Watch Shop on the strength of this recommendation 👍 I'm fairly new to horology and I really like your down-to-earth, no nonsense style. Keep up the good work!
Hey, Ben! Great video as always! A thought, because I think it could be helpful: you do a great job of throwing share and tearing apart terrible brands, but sometimes it's unclear what to expect from the brands that are actually doing it right. Would love to hear these included more often in these reviews, like the Casio comparison at the end!
If there is an example of an obvious knock at an "affordable luxury" brand, what is usually the expectation of the luxury equivalent for a point of reference? For example, you've got brands like MVMT and DW doing lazy generic minimalism, but what makes the comparison brands (e.g. Junghans and Nomos or even a Patek Calatrava) so far superior in their successful execution of minimalism? Additionally, what differentiates cheap low quality quartz from high quality modules, or even luxury quartz like Grand Seiko or Cartier's?
The Casio comparisons are a great move with this, so thank you for that!
Excellent. You're quickly becoming my favorite. Nice job.
Fantastic work Ben. Hugely informative and brilliantly put together. Thank you.
Your content is outstanding. Glad I stumbled across this place.
I bought a Valuchi just before they first sent out their first shipment it took 3 months before I got my watch, when it arrived the second hand wobbled and I wasn't the only one experiencing this fault and they would do shit to replace the watches. at the time of purchase I was very very new into wanting and buying watches and my Valuchi was my 2nd watch next to some quicksilver watch I had gotten for Christmas. it was a harsh and somewhat crushing realisation when I figured out what I had gotten but I beleive I've learnt from it and now I've got a couple pretty nice Seiko's and Citezen watches as my nicer going out watches, and i firmly beleive that my Invicta Pro Driver is 1000% better than my Valuchi and I just use the invicta as a flashy watch I wear to work that I don't mind if it gets banged about and broken over! plus at least the invicta is comfortable on the wrist...
Virgin Leather strap:
-boring
-probably end up dry rotting
CHAD PVC strap:
-Doesn't dryrot
-Wont end up cracking
Hi Ben, I have a question? There's this German brand, I think it's a Startup, it is called Lilienthal Berlin. I like the design of their watches and they are affordable to medium range in pricing.
Please review one of them, maybe the L1.
Ben, you deserve more recognition for your service to the watch journalism.
Ah yes, the royal oak. A retail store main stay
I'm not even a watch guy but I was fascinated by your video. Amazing work!
Ben, you have the best watch-channel on RUclips. I love your videos mate.
Brilliant video with great honesty, transparency and ground work. Appreciate the effort!
Excellent investigative journalism, Ben. It's clear you spent a lot of time on this production.
amazing investigation Ben, keep up the great work!
in all areas of fashion, big brands rip off designs from small startups with no compunction (or compensation)
So it's a safer bet for small startups to simply rip off designs from established brands until they themselves become prominent enough to be accepted as trend setters
I wear a Chinese quartz Rolex Milgauss copy. It is well made and I have had no issues with it in 5 years. If I had the money, I would buy a real one, but I don't. Watches should be bought for their looks. If Timex made a Milguass, I would buy it. Most people don't even notice a very expensive watch, so what does it matter? I have my eye on a Chinese Tudor Black Bay as well. (about $30) !! As long as it keeps time It's good enough. It's not fault if I have champagne tastes but lemonade money.
They call it a lobster appetite with a two minute noodle budget! Lll
@@randallk2556 Cheers, nice one
@@johnadams-wp2yb You have a rather miserable outlook on life in how you spend your money, but I respect your stance on "affordable luxury" belief.
Rock on and don't let anyone else dictate how you spend your blood and sweat cash that you can use to buy affordable quality food and retirement investments. =)
@@rinnychor I also buy fake bacon, drive a Chinese Fake Beemer, wear a fake wig and often fake comments.
Big difference between direct to customer is the cost and advertising, I bought a Christopher ward directly from CW online, cuts the cost yes but CW doesn’t make that their sole selling point. They do it because it makes sense, valuchi does it because letting you know makes money. And with the CW you actually get high level quality
I love your content and absolutely trust your opinions on watches. Thank you so much for your hard work it really shows in your videos.
What a delight. It's gotten to the point where you're searching consciously to stop all them scammers. This is some quality content, people.
I'm getting a Spaghetti just to support the channel.
Opening is excellent, funny and very professionally shot and edited.
I love the deep detective work you're doing to expose these unscrupulous watch companies. Keep up the good work!
Hiya mate you probably won’t see this but I love the vids and was wondering if you were gonna do a vid on sekonda watches as I have seen a lot of RUclips ads for them recently and wanted to see what they are really like apparently they are a brand that has been around for a while
I bought a Forge and Foster for around $200 when it was on sale. I don't remember them having any of that cut out the middleman stuff. I got it promptly, it looks / works great for me, and their customer service was very responsive. I wanted an industrial / modern skeletonized automatic for around $200 and I don't think there are many better options. I agree that some of these other ones are outright scams, but just thought I'd drop my thoughts on Forge and Foster.
Aside from the amazing WatchShop Black Friday promo 😉 this video was *chefs kiss*.
Amazing work, Ben!
Your "review" on this piece of garbage and it's dubious origins is brutal. I love it, keep up the good work🤩👍
13:11 "A dusting of luxury dirt" lol
Now I think of it, when I go to a city, I enjoy a bit of window shopping, looking at some pieces from expensive brands... so I guess the middle man is rather nice to have.
It's also a place where you can give your watch for maintenance.
I spotted that the brand Waldor & Co, that popped up as a tangent, is Swedish, so I had a look at their reported earnings (profit in parantheses):
2017: 10.8 MSEK (1.2)
2018: 12.5 MSEK (0.9)
2019: 16.7 MSEK (2.3)
2020: 31.8 MSEK (4.2)
1 MSEK is about 100k EUR.
Evidently, it's highly profitable for the amount of work you put in. The founder also runs an e-commerce business, so it's up his alley. I'm guessing the same story applies to all these faux-luxury watch brands.
Well done Sherlock ! Thanks for taking the time to make ths vid.
Great review Ben, you killed it with this one! Love how your not afraid to say what you think, with hardly any filter.
On another note, what do you think of Caravelle/Caravelle New York by Bulova? Atleast they dont claim "luxury". To me it seems as reasonable priced original designs. Not seiko level, and probably all chinese assembly, but they do have a few automatics, plus the quartz ones can be had for around $50-60, so budget for sure. But budget garbage, or budget original design + adequate quality?
Forget watches Ben.. do expose journalism.. you are good at it.
@10:45 Lios is a watch designer AND a PA at the same time... Talk about two different ends of the spectrum in terms of job scopes.. mind = blown..
Edit: Oops.. I'm mistaken. Apparently according to Valuchi, it's Personal 'Assistent'...
Great work & stylish presentation.
Absolutely love these types of videos. Thanks for taking all the time to keep us informed on these "Luxury" watch brands!!
I have a G-shock and a Police Batman Vengeance edition watch :) considering buying a Seiko, a simple and classy looking one :) definetly wont go with a social media sponsored brand, nice vid
Great work, mayte. Thanks for calling attention to these scammers.
Dude, you need to offer your Spaghetti Scametti watches as merch. I can't be the only one that actually would like one.
Awesome vid. You did some leg work here. I have become a big fan of the channel.
The established brands are little better. They con us by having short production runs and limiting availability country by country. What is available in Japan may not be available in the U.S; what is available in the U.S may not be sold in the e.u. Add to that Amazon listing watches that are anything up to 10 years out of date and buying is not the pleasurable experience that it should be.
Finally it should not be beyond the capability of the manufacturers to produce watches in a wider range of case sizes as well as being given the choice between quartz and mechanical movements. Increasingly they are fixated in only making products in oversized cases.
My enthusiasm for watches is rapidly diminishing and I can see myself spending my money elsewhere.
Another great video. Thank you so much for putting in all this time and effort, I really appreciate it. Have you ever heard of 'Trend-Design' watches? They are clearly fashion watches and only cost 12 Euros! This is absolutely no rip-off. I bought one 3 years ago just because I really liked the design, never expected it to last very long. Yet here we are: after 3 years the watch still looks decent and runs. I replaced the battery for the first time last week and was surprised to find a CASIO movement inside, the same is in the MRW-200H. The case seems to be aluminum, but the case back is steel. There is a fake leather strap that now looks very used, but is still in good order. It wears really comfy because it is so lightweight and thin. It seems that these watches are only sold in special display cases in supermarkets and malls. The website claims they are sold all over Europe but I dont know if in the UK as well. If you should have the opportunity to buy one I think a test would be quite fun. This is not advertisement and I am not related to that company whatsoever. I just think they are surprisingly good for 12 Euros (I only paid 10 Euros 3 years ago).
It's so nice to hear honest no agenda advice with affiliate links in the description.
I bought my wife a Bulova three years ago, and she has word that a handful of times. She daily wears a $45 knockoff Apple Watch.
I was not expecting to find that so funny! Also looks like you spent quite a bit of time on this as well. Good digging mate! Was well worth it.
Ben, excelent video! thanks to help us to open our eyes, and what is your opinion of pagani design watches?
Really like how you answer the question you are put forth with. Can you make a video about Titan watches?
This is investigative journalism at its finest.
Very informative video Ben. Looking at a Casio Edifice for my next watch.
Quality content, Ben. Subbed!
Why not buy Pagani Design instead? They are pretty good quality watches. Casio too, as Ben suggests!
the 'cutting out the middleman' model works in some areas (thursday boots use that marketing, and they make pretty good boots) so i can see why it's being exploited by scammers
Doesn’t the advertising of Filipo Loreti mentions Milan and Amsterdam as their inspiration as well???🤔. Or MVNT? One of this “brands” …
Fantastic work Ben, thank you