An American investment firm purchased the exclusive license to manufacture and distribute Recaro Automotive seats in 2020. Recaro seats were manufactured in Germany and Japan and sold to vehicle manufacturers all over the world. The company then opened up a manufacturing plant in the US taking that market away from Recaro Germany. They then lost a contract to supply the VW Group. So Recaro GMBH has gone into financial problems. This means it would be stupid for Ineos Automotive to manufacture vehicles that won't have seats. All their global certification and compliance is with these Recaro seats. If they have to find a replacement they may have totally different mounting points and airbags etc. Not the first time an investment company has purchased a business and screwed it up.
I still think INEOS missed a trick by not purchasing Korea’s SsangYong (now KGM) - they’re now on the up, new models (already designed pre-sale) would’ve given INEOS a volume division known also for rugged AWD vehicles, great quality - Korean supply chain access and a decent and now growing distribution network. I cannot understand why they didn’t. They would’ve had access to common parts that are good quality - switches, controls, looms, engines, and…. Seats!
Great comment and point. I think their original intention was to build in Britain as a heritage thing. They got lucky when they found a ready-made state-of-the-art factory for sale in Hambach, France. It's funny to see the Grenadier has 3 different international flags on it (UK/DE/FR).
Because it was started by an out-of-touch billionaire for whom this has always really just been a pet project of a childhood fantasy love affair. And building it in Korea didn’t fit that fantasy.
Oh man another rich kid comes in, takes a decent idea and ruins it by getting greedy. INEOS's biggest unlock was getting a quality car for a good value. And now he wants to move yup market to compete with G-Wagons. Just stupid wrong move.
Agreed! I got to a certain point in life where I realized that businesses don't always make things that make sense, they make things that grow their business - even if that strays from their original intention. I feel like that is taking place before our eyes. I'm willing to sit by and watch what happens with fingers crossed, but then I already have a Grenadier. I know that I would not be a buyer at $160K or even at $100K+. Thanks for commenting!
@@MyAutomobileObsession and if it grows their business then while I’d be disappointed that we lost a good accessible product, all power to them. But I’d argue that the whole momentum around the Grenadier was because it bought G Wagon capability at an accessible-ish price. By pricing it like a G Wagon or those Arkonik Defenders they are basically making another Beverley Hills run about..but without the brand history or cache. Which means it could fail quite easily. They should think about how to build a quality product at an acceptable price point. Businesses should make money but serving a larger market at lower profits is a smarter move than serving a smaller market at higher profits. And I honestly refuse to believe, given the components that go into a Gren, they are losing money at $90-100K MSRP
A project driven by passion, not logic or car experience. They found out it costs a lot more to develop and produce such a car than they thought and they can’t swell it cheaply to farmers etc so instead they pitch in the luxury SUV market… Now stopped production due to “trim” issues, yeah. Watch this space.
@@roybatty2030 true. But most industry changing products come from passion and I applaud them for creating the Grenadier. Yes they do t have prior car building experience but despite that they have put out a stellar product. As @myautomobileobsession called out I’m pretty sure they are profitable at a unit level if you exclude initial setup costs. Those have to be amortized over the long term. IMHO that’s where they should try to bring the price down to push more volumes rather than focusing on more profit/ unit. The Grenadier could fail because of other aspects of being a car company that Ineos needs to get right. Ex: service, parts support, etc. But I’d hate to see it fail because some dumb rich kids wanted to kill the goose that’s laying the golden eggs. The new breed of off-road vehicles are already normalizing the entry price to ~$60-70K (Jeep, Land Cruiser, GX, Bronco) and that’s before they are built up a bit (bumper, rock rails, etc.). The Gren is pretty much ready from factory. The price point today is right for that. If they can keep it flat for the next five years or even knock it down $5K and keep reliability high they would slowly but surely win the volume market.
@@yuglesstube I don't think so. It will take a lot of time and money to make radical changes to convert the brilliant old-fashioned off-roader to a car like the modern Defender. It might get more luxury and cosmetic changes, and it might get some changes to the steering, but I don't think much more-at least in the short term. I still plan to order my Quartermaster in 2025.
@hanenlos I wonder if it's been recognised that the niche the Grenadier was intended to suit is impossible to suit. It's far heavier and more expensive than planned. The reason there is no defender replacement is perhaps because such a thing is now not possible. And perhaps Grenadier proves it.
@@yuglesstube well, not sure. I think judging whether the Grenadier is a success or a failure will take more time. For overlanding globally it will be the best option out there. Why you might ask: is the Toyota 79 not the best overlander. Well if you plan to go all over the world then a Toyota presence in the country will not help if they do not sell your model in that country. So that takes the 70 series out of the game. If we can believe the Grenadier's ambitions of becoming available all over the planet - then clearly the Grenadier is the favorite global overlanding 4x4 I can think of - and it is every boy's dream - at least it is mine :-) (PS: do you live in Switzerland? - just guessing based on your youtube handle!)
Unfortunately, it would appear that the highly desirable Grenadier has become even more unattainable for us mere mortals who are not members of the Billionaire class.
Great comment. They started out with a target of about $59K during the initial design phase and now a '25 Model Year starts at $75K and that's for a bare-bones version with no extras. At some point it stops making sense for what you're getting...that is unless you're spending your "throw away" money.
@@MyAutomobileObsession I know, I have been avidly following the development and progress of project grenadier since it was first announced. For a long time I had the hope of buying one until the prices jumped. I feel that Sir Jim got distracted by his design team who wanted to build a revamped G Class Merc and that the car became over engineered, too heavy and too expensive to produce. I am afraid that this shut down in production will mark the beginning of the end for the vehicle. 😔
In the UK at least, sales numbers for Ineos have been poor this year. Just 187 passenger vehicles to end August (583 for similar period last year) and 16 vehicles taxed as commercials (67 for equivalent period last year). Our nearest Ineos dealer has 21 new vehicles listed on Autotrader UK with discounts of £9000 to £13, 881 on new prices of between £59,020 and £86,202. No wonder electric Fusilier was cancelled. They must be losing a fortune on this venture. Could this be the last nail in the coffin?
Thanks for sharing this. I feel that INEOS was expecting things wouldn't be profitable for a while, but the question is for how long and how much? The bough ailing Belstaff in 2017 and it is just finally reporting a near break even year now, so INEOS is clearly patient with it's projects.
The background and development ( ongoing ) story is interesting with these. I would likely have one at the right price as I do quite a lot of roaming vehicle based camping. But, out here in New Zealand, going on 73 i'm looking at getting my third Toyota for all the well known reasons. Including practicality, maintenance costs, increasingly competitive comfort levels, price. There's a long list of plus points to my choice especially as this may be headed into the Hollywood runabout, silly money zone.
Thanks for your comment. Your point is well taken. INEOS set out to be an off-road built on purpose vehicle, however now we hear more about on-road up-market potential. It's a good vehicle, but it's currently the right mix of features for the off-road and less so for being the Hollywood runabout - but you're right about hitting the silly money zone.
I ordered Granadier in June. It is supposed to have my Granadier med Nov 24. 2 Days ago I received an Email that the delivery of my Granadier postponed to the first quarter of 2025. 😢
It may be that there is going to be a deal to save the business but then again, perhaps not. Presumably they will take their design to another manufacturer and have them manufactured, but that all takes time.
Exactly - takes time. It will be interesting to see how they are able to resolve this since long term and short term may be different solutions. Thanks for commenting!
Thanks for the comment and I believe you! There are cancelled order cars that often don't have essential or desired options that were ordered by people who thought they would just order the basic truck - and those are not necessarily desired versions of the Grenadier. That's why they get to sit and wait for a matching buyer who wants what that build has as most original buyers ordered exactly what they wanted. It will be interesting to see if or how this changes when the supply of fresh cars turns off for a while. Not sure if dealers would rather push out this inventory and have nothing new, or have something on the lot. As this is all new news, time will tell!
They may not be selling in CT but here in Colorado they have been moving vehicles quite rapidly. We purchased ours within a week of hearing of INEOS and the Grenadier. Purchased a Fieldmaster in MM with full lockers, 18" alloys with KO2s, privacy glass, full electrical setup (roof plugs etc), rear hitch....and wait for it....the EXCLUSIVE/ELUSIVE "SMOKERS PACKAGE!"!!!! We purchased two days after our test drive and Craig Barela at Red Noland Ineos in Colorado Springs was an absolute delight to work with! The Fieldmaster we purchased fit all of our needs/wants. We travel by the dealer a couple times a week and the line of "SOLD" vehicles on the lot is pretty long and inventory appears to be moving relatively quickly from our standpoint. Unfortunate about the production hold....I am hopeful that Ineos will get it sorted soon.
If you are not going rock climbing everyday, keep away from it, and 90% of it not equipped with rear lockers, means just for your daily commute. It is a town car! Then horrible design, small side mirror, you have to purchase a separate step to get in easily, you have to lift your leg to brake it…, then the never comeback steering. Quite some people traded it in for other cars with only 300 or 400 miles on it. Atlanta has over 80 covered with dust. Go figure!😢
Thanks for the comment. And you're probably correct that they were aware of this situation well before we all first heard about it. I got a head's up at the beginning of the month, but I'm sure they had their fingers crossed that Recaro would continue to conduct business during its reorganization. Sometimes suppliers (or companies in general) hold things close to the vest. I can only imagine what that phone call was like... We'll stay tuned to see how it plays out.
An interesting comment. I (my opinion) don't think this will be the case based on the back history and solid funding of INEOS companies in Britain, but I do agree that INEOS Automotive might not show a profit for several years to come. Just know that unlike Fisker, INEOS has the resources to keep the Automotive company going - it's not a pubic company.
Translation for others: It's so weird that the door related wiring is exposed on the bottom of the rear door. If someone cut the wiring... Is there a way to make it so it's not exposed to the outside? Thanks for your comment, and yes, it is a bit curious that these are exposed on the outside of the doors. I don't know of a way to have it not be exposed and think INEOS had to make this decision. We may find that future versions do not have this as it does seem to be a "soft spot" that could be vulnerable. 댓글 감사합니다. 그리고 네, 이것들이 문 바깥쪽에 노출되어 있다는 건 약간 궁금하네요. 노출되지 않게 하는 방법을 모르겠고 INEOS가 이런 결정을 내려야 했을 것 같아요. 향후 버전에서는 이 기능이 없을 수도 있는데, 취약할 수 있는 "약점"인 듯하거든요.
I wouldn’t worry a lot about that situation with the son. And, he’s right, a bunch of bureaucrats have impaired the car market. Now we have boring ass designs and simple minded “cross overs”designed for moms. It’s all gotten sort of “Ukrainian”. Compared to a G wagon or LandRover or even a Denali-they aren’t that bad on price. That being said, I’d probably be inclined to wait on some depreciation to kick in. I suspect there are going to be a lot of people who buy them and then miss some of the creature comforts-and there will hopefully be plenty with low miles.
All great comments - thanks. It's a wait and see as I don't think the sky is falling, but as fans of the brand it somehow feels like tragedy has struck. They will sort it out.
@@MyAutomobileObsession It would be great if they could get the price point down, but in these fiat fantasy land day in which we live, such doesn’t seem likely. I don’t consider them over priced, but if you had 85k to spend on an SUV for the family, I suspect most with spouses would be directed towards Denalis and LandRovers and such-which are full of goodies. My wife drove a Grenadier and loved the look and feel-but she openly wondered whether she’d be able to live without the power lift gate on the Denali not to mention a cavernous console in which she keeps more keys than a janitor
Yes - there are many dealers that have several remaining 2024 cars on the lot - cancelled orders. Some are highly spec'd and others are bare bones. Somebody who is spending almost $100K CDN on a car wants what THEY want and not some leftover. So dealers have to wait for a buyer that matches what that car has (color, options, etc.). It will be interesting to see if this changes now that supply of 2025 cars will become constrained for an unknown amount of time. Thanks for commenting!
There are plenty of unsold grenadiers in Atlanta. Last month $5k off msrp on inventory. This month 2.9% financing. Cant get parts. People don’t want them. I think the prices will continue to drop. Lots of good deals on used ones, already.
Thanks for commenting. I appreciate your perspective and it's helpful to have this shared. I was aware of the $5K offer and don't know if it's still happening, but they are going to experience a rough patch while they work to tidy up inventory from cancelled orders. The only point I might debate with you is that people don't want them. They do - or more correctly SOME do - but the original price target was $59K and today's Grenadier is not that. It's going to be interesting to see how things play out, but INEOS Automotive has solid backing from INEOS, so they will move forward in some shape or another. Just might get a little messy for a while.
You are correct. My saying that was mainly that they could spend time keeping busy on R&D while they are in this holding pattern. Thanks for commenting!
So Ineos didn't have a backup seat manufacturer lined up beforehand? Huh? Also, the Recaro bankruptcy press release says they will maintain production. Plus, why not just step in with a few employees to keep building those seats if Recaro is truly the problem. Lastly NHTSA in USA never crash tested the Grenadier and so I do not understand the safety certification issue. Something does not seem right here.
Great points! I don't know if auto manufacturers have backup suppliers for all components. Especially when they name the Recaro for seats and BMW for engines. I think the error might have been in investigating the financial health of the supplier before selecting it. I read the press releases that you mention, and agree that it did say they were maintaining production. However that was 30-July and subsequent news indicated they were in discussions with labor unions and the local town about job preservation. The INEOS announcement was 6-weeks later, so not sure if more came to light. I was unaware about the NHTSA / crash testing detail, so thank you for that. I just know that if they change a supplier for the seat who is integrating an airbag into it, there will likely be some testing/time needed before they could instantly change over. I also found out the Porsche had this exact problem in the past week with a battery supplier in which they needed to make a 60M Euro investment and take 32% ownership in order to keep them afloat while they restructure, so I think this is all a sign of the times. Thanks for commenting.
Thanks for your question. They've been testing an update, but had trouble with their rollout, so it's been delayed and now looking like end of year for the overspeed limit permanent shut off ability. This is per my dealer service manager this past week.
The Recaro problem might be only the pretext. The company is struggling with immensely weak sales figures. Just to give you an idea... This year, just 369 Grenadier were newly registered in Germany, a main sales market. That's not even 50 a month. So going on short-time work due to weak order intake apart from the Recaro dilemma was a logical consequence. With the measure, employers can react to temporary overcapacity and thus avoid worse consequences such as job cuts. They are also able to quickly ramp up production again as soon as the situation improves. I really hope so, but I'm afraid the new marketing approach from George Ratcliffe will appeal to even fewer buyers. Then you'd better get a G63 right away...
Great comment! It could be possible that most of those who wanted Grenadiers, now have one. It remains to be seen how they develop interest and new customers. I do find that people approach me regularly who have never seen nor heard of a Grenadier and are quite intrigued. It may just take time. But yes, the Recaro shut down may have been a bit of a blessing in disguise (?) and provide a little space to re-think a few things to remain strong and viable going forward. I think INEOS is well aware of potential ups and downs, however if the buyers really aren't materializing (and price could be a part of this), it will be interesting to see what they do.
I predicted this from the start. It is a very limited market, niche vehicle that is over-priced against its competitors in that market. Sell a bunch to start, then those that have/ can afford one have one, then what? There are only so many Anglophiles and Europhiles with the money to buy this just because of that, even if it has zero practicality for them, or the competitors are better deals. A few markets might do well, like Australia, but those are small markets and are not going to support the company. For the US market with over 15 million sales a year in vehicles, they did nothing to adapt it to our trails and offroad use or otherwise tune it for American tastes. So we get a vehicle that is more expensive than its competitors and now we still have to dump money into mods. Great vehicle, terrible business strategy.
VINs have passed the 22,500 mark in just over 18 months, with just under 20,000 sold. And that is without the Chinese market, which launched this week.
Please email me privately and I will be happy to share. You can find my address from my channel page (on a desktop apparently and not on mobile) - and the about me section will show you my e-address.
Not a bad idea, but I think they will solve this either with Recaro, or with another European vendor. I think logistics would be a different kind of problem that might be introduced.
It's not easy to start a auto manufacturer company and rebrand a classic style have a price tag 80k and up when inflation is making harder to pay normal monthly bills , i believe this company has 1500 employees and only sold 800 units so far how can anyone stay in business with these numbers looks like more goingout than coming in this will bankrupt any company i really like the grenadier and hope the company can find a way to make it work for starters lower the price make it more affordable like Henry ford did when he started ford as he had plenty of failures in the beginning 😊
Thanks for your comments. To clarify, I only listed US sales numbers and there are many more sold (since 2023) in the other 18 markets served by INEOS. The 800 was current on-the-ground unsold units, not sold units. As of July 31, US had approximately 3,888 sold and were averaging around 500/mo. sales over the past 3 months. Grenadiers are selling. The question was if they were meeting expectations for INEOS Automotive. If you follow INEOS (the parent company), you will know that they are well funded and private, and can afford to float money losing projects for quite some time with the long range expectation of turning out a winner. I think they will tweak things here and there and eventually have things in balance, and have the luxury to do that. Time will tell, but I'm optimistic. And as you say, look at Ford. Winning years, losing years. They've had it all.
I had a V8 disco 2 and a 2011 Disco 4. The D4 was one of the best cars I owned. I now have a top spec IG (one of three cars). Overall driving experience on road is somewhere between the D2 and D4. Offroad is better than our 2015 Defender.
If you are not going rock climbing everyday, keep away from it, and 90% of it not equipped with rear lockers, means just for your daily commute. It is a town car! Then horrible design, small side mirror, you have to purchase a separate step to get in easily, you have to lift your leg to brake it…, then the never comeback steering. Quite some people traded it in for other cars with only 300 or 400 miles on it. Atlanta has over 80 covered with dust. Go figure!😢
Thanks for commenting. You make the point - it's said to be off-road focus, but that's an optional extra - so somebody had to be thinking that there would be an on-road market too. However, this story isn't new. Range Rover's humble beginnings were similar and 40 years later look at what it's become....
Agreed! There were a lot of cancelled orders and what I have seen as reasons range from financial change of circumstance (we put deposits down a year and a half ago), or they didn't like how certain features turned out, didn't like the color once they saw it, etc. But that oversupply that they were trying to push now may become the ONLY supply that dealers have for several months - and I'm not sure if that changes things. We shall see, won't we? Thanks for commenting!
@@RootBeerGMT You can call them/message them to ask. It does not look like they are moving many because about a month ago it was maybe 20 sitting there. Some people claim they are selling well, are all over the Los Angeles area. But I am in the south bay - Hermosa/Manhattan/Redondo Beach and I have not seen one in months. And this is a wealthy area where people have the latest, fanciest everything.
@@XPRoller good grief that is awful. That means this is a flop in the USA. People are willing to pay $80k (including dealer mark up) for the new Land Cruiser so the soending money is there. I think this is the fault of Inneos not having a decent advertising campaign. Most people have no idea who or what they are.
@@MyAutomobileObsession I beieve that they are looking for the “upmarket” as their production capacity would not allow them to be as profitable when staying in the mid market. But this is a game the huge companies recently lost in horrible way … look at the USA - the writing is on the wall and glowing
Thanks for your comment. I agree that they have a situation on their hands with too many cars (at that price), but it appears to be industry wide (except for Asian cars). EV's are piling up, Trucks, etc. I think everybody who wanted to buy after the Pandemic has already done so, and nobody needs a new car year after year.
Thanks for the comment. It's certainly not a far-fetched idea knowing that Jim Ratcliffe bought Belstaf (the clothing company and namesake for the Fieldmaster and Trialmaster) because it was in financial trouble. Time will tell!
Thanks for the update. This sounds like Bricklin, DeLorean, and Fisker, all rolled into one. Who wants to wait for a car that may never be produced? No seats. Really?
Thanks for your comment. I think what sets this apart from the brands you listed is the financial backing at play. INEOS is a privately owned mega company, and they don't always follow the standard playbook. I don't think the insolvency of Recaro will grind them to a halt as much as the softening demand for autos at this price point. I would not be surprised to see INEOS heavily invest in, or buy Recaro.
More like trying to clear the 2024 inventory. All dealers seem to be loaded with them, and they are starting to discount to move them. This is the perfect ploy to retain pricing and clear the 24's. I will be buying a Toyota Land Cruiser instead !
Great Point! But the manufacturing shut down due to Recaro pulling the plug is no ploy. That does not mean that they need to clear out those remaining 24's. Frankly, I think their plan would have been to blow them out and start fresh with the 2025's as they handle orders differently now and potential customers won't place orders for Grenadiers with no (or a strange mix of) options. And the 2025's are at a new, higher price - already. So, now that we won't see 2025's for a while it will be interesting to see how they approach. As for the business problem, INEOS is really well funded and finding more business thatn anticipated in the UAE and other markets. The U.S. is only one of 17 at the moment, and they are heading for 20. If the company fails, it will be a spectacular failure. I'm not thinking that will happen, but also don't know if it will all be smooth sailing, either. Thanks for your comments!
I looked at one off these theŕs no way i would order one with the price there asking the residual price is way to low i brought a better name brand truck
Thanks for commenting. I would agree that there is a lot of choice in the market today, and the Grenadier is somewhat niche. But I'm old enough to remember when Toyota was a young brand in the US, and nobody felt they were a brand name either. It's a matter of time - and it does take time. As for residuals, I have not seen any data, so that is an interesting point you make. I'll have to check that out.
Thanks for the question! I'm doing remarkably well with it. No mechanical issues. Anything that I'm having trouble with is more in the category of "I don't like the way they implemented the feature" and alot of that is software related. But overall, good.
@@MyAutomobileObsession We had software problems initially in Australia but that was resolved after around 6 months and now no problems at all. I also had a faulty rear door sensor that was replaced.
I would think yes, but if the new supplier doesn't make an exact replica of the Recaro seat, it may need new safety certification and so on. That's the hard part, I think. Thanks for commenting!
It's no loss..the vehicle is old fashioned lump without being too impolite.. Radcliffe needs urgently interviewing as he is abandoning other operations in the petro chemical industry.. Seats can be for from 20 suppliers..that excuse is a load of tosh.. All seats are type approved to a standard. Sounds more like an Ineos liquidity issue.
Great comments. Time will tell, but I do know that INEOS has lots of pocket money. As for the old fashioned lump comment - I somehow thinks that is where the popularity is coming from. Some folks want a sturdy old fashioned lump! To each, his own. Right?
@@MyAutomobileObsessionI have to wonder how many of t people commenting have driven one. They have much more personality than a Toyota or Jeep Wrangler Rubicon and far more capable than the Bronco.
Thanks for commenting. We didn't ever get the 2023 in the U.S., we started with the 2024 Model Year. I am surprised to hear that there are some 2023's still available, but somehow not surprised.
Yours is my favorite comment! However, I can't tell if you wandered into the wrong place, or are pulling my leg. In case you really don't know, visit ineosgrenadier.com and all will become clear. Thanks for your comment!
You gotta to love capitalism, there is nothing private equity touches that does not turn to absolute sh…? As for Ineos, this may not be the only EU supplier facing doom, Germany is in a very poor state especially
Good point! I've been seeing loads about German manufacturers putting the brakes on certain production and suppliers falling into financial hard times.
Good question! Grenadier's come with a 5 year warranty at the moment (In the U.S.) so their on the hook for at least that long. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed that if something goes wrong, it's not with the seat! Also, the seats have built-in airbags, so not sure about replacement in the event they deploy.
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An American investment firm purchased the exclusive license to manufacture and distribute Recaro Automotive seats in 2020. Recaro seats were manufactured in Germany and Japan and sold to vehicle manufacturers all over the world. The company then opened up a manufacturing plant in the US taking that market away from Recaro Germany. They then lost a contract to supply the VW Group. So Recaro GMBH has gone into financial problems. This means it would be stupid for Ineos Automotive to manufacture vehicles that won't have seats. All their global certification and compliance is with these Recaro seats. If they have to find a replacement they may have totally different mounting points and airbags etc. Not the first time an investment company has purchased a
business and screwed it up.
Thanks for sharing this. It's the information that I had as well.
I still think INEOS missed a trick by not purchasing Korea’s SsangYong (now KGM) - they’re now on the up, new models (already designed pre-sale) would’ve given INEOS a volume division known also for rugged AWD vehicles, great quality - Korean supply chain access and a decent and now growing distribution network. I cannot understand why they didn’t. They would’ve had access to common parts that are good quality - switches, controls, looms, engines, and…. Seats!
Great comment and point. I think their original intention was to build in Britain as a heritage thing. They got lucky when they found a ready-made state-of-the-art factory for sale in Hambach, France. It's funny to see the Grenadier has 3 different international flags on it (UK/DE/FR).
Because it was started by an out-of-touch billionaire for whom this has always really just been a pet project of a childhood fantasy love affair. And building it in Korea didn’t fit that fantasy.
Oh man another rich kid comes in, takes a decent idea and ruins it by getting greedy. INEOS's biggest unlock was getting a quality car for a good value. And now he wants to move yup market to compete with G-Wagons. Just stupid wrong move.
Agreed! I got to a certain point in life where I realized that businesses don't always make things that make sense, they make things that grow their business - even if that strays from their original intention. I feel like that is taking place before our eyes. I'm willing to sit by and watch what happens with fingers crossed, but then I already have a Grenadier. I know that I would not be a buyer at $160K or even at $100K+. Thanks for commenting!
@@MyAutomobileObsession and if it grows their business then while I’d be disappointed that we lost a good accessible product, all power to them. But I’d argue that the whole momentum around the Grenadier was because it bought G Wagon capability at an accessible-ish price. By pricing it like a G Wagon or those Arkonik Defenders they are basically making another Beverley Hills run about..but without the brand history or cache. Which means it could fail quite easily.
They should think about how to build a quality product at an acceptable price point. Businesses should make money but serving a larger market at lower profits is a smarter move than serving a smaller market at higher profits.
And I honestly refuse to believe, given the components that go into a Gren, they are losing money at $90-100K MSRP
@@paachi They are not losing money on the vehicles. They still have to recover their setup investment but that is also recovered as tax credits.
A project driven by passion, not logic or car experience. They found out it costs a lot more to develop and produce such a car than they thought and they can’t swell it cheaply to farmers etc so instead they pitch in the luxury SUV market… Now stopped production due to “trim” issues, yeah. Watch this space.
@@roybatty2030 true. But most industry changing products come from passion and I applaud them for creating the Grenadier. Yes they do t have prior car building experience but despite that they have put out a stellar product. As @myautomobileobsession called out I’m pretty sure they are profitable at a unit level if you exclude initial setup costs. Those have to be amortized over the long term. IMHO that’s where they should try to bring the price down to push more volumes rather than focusing on more profit/ unit.
The Grenadier could fail because of other aspects of being a car company that Ineos needs to get right. Ex: service, parts support, etc. But I’d hate to see it fail because some dumb rich kids wanted to kill the goose that’s laying the golden eggs.
The new breed of off-road vehicles are already normalizing the entry price to ~$60-70K (Jeep, Land Cruiser, GX, Bronco) and that’s before they are built up a bit (bumper, rock rails, etc.). The Gren is pretty much ready from factory. The price point today is right for that. If they can keep it flat for the next five years or even knock it down $5K and keep reliability high they would slowly but surely win the volume market.
my factory tour also got canceled - and yes, it is the Recaro seats that are causing this 😞
Thanks for commenting. I'd been trying to get into the factory for a couple of years now, so clearly disappointed.
@hanenlos Taken with the rather interesting remarks of the Radcliffe son, I wonder if there's not more to the story.
@@yuglesstube I don't think so. It will take a lot of time and money to make radical changes to convert the brilliant old-fashioned off-roader to a car like the modern Defender. It might get more luxury and cosmetic changes, and it might get some changes to the steering, but I don't think much more-at least in the short term. I still plan to order my Quartermaster in 2025.
@hanenlos I wonder if it's been recognised that the niche the Grenadier was intended to suit is impossible to suit. It's far heavier and more expensive than planned.
The reason there is no defender replacement is perhaps because such a thing is now not possible.
And perhaps Grenadier proves it.
@@yuglesstube well, not sure. I think judging whether the Grenadier is a success or a failure will take more time. For overlanding globally it will be the best option out there. Why you might ask: is the Toyota 79 not the best overlander. Well if you plan to go all over the world then a Toyota presence in the country will not help if they do not sell your model in that country. So that takes the 70 series out of the game. If we can believe the Grenadier's ambitions of becoming available all over the planet - then clearly the Grenadier is the favorite global overlanding 4x4 I can think of - and it is every boy's dream - at least it is mine :-) (PS: do you live in Switzerland? - just guessing based on your youtube handle!)
Unfortunately, it would appear that the highly desirable Grenadier has become even more unattainable for us mere mortals who are not members of the Billionaire class.
Great comment. They started out with a target of about $59K during the initial design phase and now a '25 Model Year starts at $75K and that's for a bare-bones version with no extras. At some point it stops making sense for what you're getting...that is unless you're spending your "throw away" money.
@@MyAutomobileObsession I know, I have been avidly following the development and progress of project grenadier since it was first announced. For a long time I had the hope of buying one until the prices jumped. I feel that Sir Jim got distracted by his design team who wanted to build a revamped G Class Merc and that the car became over engineered, too heavy and too expensive to produce. I am afraid that this shut down in production will mark the beginning of the end for the vehicle. 😔
In the UK at least, sales numbers for Ineos have been poor this year. Just 187 passenger vehicles to end August (583 for similar period last year) and 16 vehicles taxed as commercials (67 for equivalent period last year). Our nearest Ineos dealer has 21 new vehicles listed on Autotrader UK with discounts of £9000 to £13, 881 on new prices of between £59,020 and £86,202. No wonder electric Fusilier was cancelled. They must be losing a fortune on this venture. Could this be the last nail in the coffin?
Thanks for sharing this. I feel that INEOS was expecting things wouldn't be profitable for a while, but the question is for how long and how much? The bough ailing Belstaff in 2017 and it is just finally reporting a near break even year now, so INEOS is clearly patient with it's projects.
The background and development ( ongoing ) story is interesting with these. I would likely have one at the right price as I do quite a lot of roaming vehicle based camping. But, out here in New Zealand, going on 73 i'm looking at getting my third Toyota for all the well known reasons. Including practicality, maintenance costs, increasingly competitive comfort levels, price. There's a long list of plus points to my choice especially as this may be headed into the Hollywood runabout, silly money zone.
Thanks for your comment. Your point is well taken. INEOS set out to be an off-road built on purpose vehicle, however now we hear more about on-road up-market potential. It's a good vehicle, but it's currently the right mix of features for the off-road and less so for being the Hollywood runabout - but you're right about hitting the silly money zone.
I ordered Granadier in June. It is supposed to have my Granadier med Nov 24. 2 Days ago I received an Email that the delivery of my Granadier postponed to the first quarter of 2025. 😢
Sorry to hear this, but thanks for confirming.
Thanks. Just scheduling a test drive now
Thanks for commenting. Just make sure you get one with the options you want!
It may be that there is going to be a deal to save the business but then again, perhaps not.
Presumably they will take their design to another manufacturer and have them manufactured, but that all takes time.
Exactly - takes time. It will be interesting to see how they are able to resolve this since long term and short term may be different solutions. Thanks for commenting!
My friend at a dealer in CT told me that they are having a hard time selling the cars.
Thanks for the comment and I believe you! There are cancelled order cars that often don't have essential or desired options that were ordered by people who thought they would just order the basic truck - and those are not necessarily desired versions of the Grenadier. That's why they get to sit and wait for a matching buyer who wants what that build has as most original buyers ordered exactly what they wanted. It will be interesting to see if or how this changes when the supply of fresh cars turns off for a while. Not sure if dealers would rather push out this inventory and have nothing new, or have something on the lot. As this is all new news, time will tell!
They may not be selling in CT but here in Colorado they have been moving vehicles quite rapidly. We purchased ours within a week of hearing of INEOS and the Grenadier. Purchased a Fieldmaster in MM with full lockers, 18" alloys with KO2s, privacy glass, full electrical setup (roof plugs etc), rear hitch....and wait for it....the EXCLUSIVE/ELUSIVE "SMOKERS PACKAGE!"!!!! We purchased two days after our test drive and Craig Barela at Red Noland Ineos in Colorado Springs was an absolute delight to work with! The Fieldmaster we purchased fit all of our needs/wants. We travel by the dealer a couple times a week and the line of "SOLD" vehicles on the lot is pretty long and inventory appears to be moving relatively quickly from our standpoint. Unfortunate about the production hold....I am hopeful that Ineos will get it sorted soon.
I am picking my new Grennie up from stock at Curry INEOS next week... my order from April has not shipped to states yet.
I believe it's too heavy and has too small a payload. I think it missed the mark.
If you are not going rock climbing everyday, keep away from it, and 90% of it not equipped with rear lockers, means just for your daily commute. It is a town car! Then horrible design, small side mirror, you have to purchase a separate step to get in easily, you have to lift your leg to brake it…, then the never comeback steering. Quite some people traded it in for other cars with only 300 or 400 miles on it. Atlanta has over 80 covered with dust. Go figure!😢
Similar situation in the UK, IAC in the UK which supplies to JLR was in financial trouble so JLR bought it
Great comment! I would not be surprised to see something like this happen with INEOS.
So a cool car, but very expensive for a very basic vehicle. It has a very limited market.
Thanks for your comment. I would agree that INEOS is still in the learning phase about their potential market size.
I'm calling this BS!! company like Ineos this should have seen this coming.
Thanks for the comment. And you're probably correct that they were aware of this situation well before we all first heard about it. I got a head's up at the beginning of the month, but I'm sure they had their fingers crossed that Recaro would continue to conduct business during its reorganization. Sometimes suppliers (or companies in general) hold things close to the vest. I can only imagine what that phone call was like... We'll stay tuned to see how it plays out.
Employees at Recaro Automotive GMBH didn’t even see this coming, so how would one of their clients?
Ineos is doomed. I don't see them around 5 years from now.
An interesting comment. I (my opinion) don't think this will be the case based on the back history and solid funding of INEOS companies in Britain, but I do agree that INEOS Automotive might not show a profit for several years to come. Just know that unlike Fisker, INEOS has the resources to keep the Automotive company going - it's not a pubic company.
후면 도어 하단에 도어 관련 배선이 노출되어 있는게 너무 이상합니다. 누군가 배선을 절단한디면 ㅠㅠ 외부에 노출 안되게 할 수 없나요
Translation for others: It's so weird that the door related wiring is exposed on the bottom of the rear door. If someone cut the wiring... Is there a way to make it so it's not exposed to the outside?
Thanks for your comment, and yes, it is a bit curious that these are exposed on the outside of the doors. I don't know of a way to have it not be exposed and think INEOS had to make this decision. We may find that future versions do not have this as it does seem to be a "soft spot" that could be vulnerable.
댓글 감사합니다. 그리고 네, 이것들이 문 바깥쪽에 노출되어 있다는 건 약간 궁금하네요. 노출되지 않게 하는 방법을 모르겠고 INEOS가 이런 결정을 내려야 했을 것 같아요. 향후 버전에서는 이 기능이 없을 수도 있는데, 취약할 수 있는 "약점"인 듯하거든요.
I wouldn’t worry a lot about that situation with the son. And, he’s right, a bunch of bureaucrats have impaired the car market. Now we have boring ass designs and simple minded “cross overs”designed for moms. It’s all gotten sort of “Ukrainian”.
Compared to a G wagon or LandRover or even a Denali-they aren’t that bad on price. That being said, I’d probably be inclined to wait on some depreciation to kick in. I suspect there are going to be a lot of people who buy them and then miss some of the creature comforts-and there will hopefully be plenty with low miles.
Having competed on the Dakar and other Rally Raid.. wouldn't own one with a broom 🧹 stick..
Over weight, out of date lump of fuel greedy legacy crap.
Great comment, but I think that's exactly why some people love them!
All great comments - thanks. It's a wait and see as I don't think the sky is falling, but as fans of the brand it somehow feels like tragedy has struck. They will sort it out.
@@MyAutomobileObsession It would be great if they could get the price point down, but in these fiat fantasy land day in which we live, such doesn’t seem likely. I don’t consider them over priced, but if you had 85k to spend on an SUV for the family, I suspect most with spouses would be directed towards Denalis and LandRovers and such-which are full of goodies. My wife drove a Grenadier and loved the look and feel-but she openly wondered whether she’d be able to live without the power lift gate on the Denali not to mention a cavernous console in which she keeps more keys than a janitor
@@Rockall57 Sounds like quite the adventure
Problem: Grenadier made in France.
I'm not sure I understand why that is the problem. Perhaps others may chime in.
Interesting, they have at least 20 of them in stock in Vancouver, BC.
Yes - there are many dealers that have several remaining 2024 cars on the lot - cancelled orders. Some are highly spec'd and others are bare bones. Somebody who is spending almost $100K CDN on a car wants what THEY want and not some leftover. So dealers have to wait for a buyer that matches what that car has (color, options, etc.). It will be interesting to see if this changes now that supply of 2025 cars will become constrained for an unknown amount of time. Thanks for commenting!
There are plenty of unsold grenadiers in Atlanta. Last month $5k off msrp on inventory. This month 2.9% financing. Cant get parts. People don’t want them. I think the prices will continue to drop. Lots of good deals on used ones, already.
Thanks for commenting. I appreciate your perspective and it's helpful to have this shared. I was aware of the $5K offer and don't know if it's still happening, but they are going to experience a rough patch while they work to tidy up inventory from cancelled orders. The only point I might debate with you is that people don't want them. They do - or more correctly SOME do - but the original price target was $59K and today's Grenadier is not that. It's going to be interesting to see how things play out, but INEOS Automotive has solid backing from INEOS, so they will move forward in some shape or another. Just might get a little messy for a while.
Curious. What parts were you needing on a new Grenadier that you could not get?
Sounds like I need to make a trip to Atlanta
They can do R&D but you can't re engineer and design a car in months.
You are correct. My saying that was mainly that they could spend time keeping busy on R&D while they are in this holding pattern. Thanks for commenting!
So Ineos didn't have a backup seat manufacturer lined up beforehand? Huh? Also, the Recaro bankruptcy press release says they will maintain production. Plus, why not just step in with a few employees to keep building those seats if Recaro is truly the problem. Lastly NHTSA in USA never crash tested the Grenadier and so I do not understand the safety certification issue. Something does not seem right here.
Great points! I don't know if auto manufacturers have backup suppliers for all components. Especially when they name the Recaro for seats and BMW for engines. I think the error might have been in investigating the financial health of the supplier before selecting it. I read the press releases that you mention, and agree that it did say they were maintaining production. However that was 30-July and subsequent news indicated they were in discussions with labor unions and the local town about job preservation. The INEOS announcement was 6-weeks later, so not sure if more came to light. I was unaware about the NHTSA / crash testing detail, so thank you for that. I just know that if they change a supplier for the seat who is integrating an airbag into it, there will likely be some testing/time needed before they could instantly change over. I also found out the Porsche had this exact problem in the past week with a battery supplier in which they needed to make a 60M Euro investment and take 32% ownership in order to keep them afloat while they restructure, so I think this is all a sign of the times. Thanks for commenting.
are they getting rid of the speed limit alarm any soon>?
Thanks for your question. They've been testing an update, but had trouble with their rollout, so it's been delayed and now looking like end of year for the overspeed limit permanent shut off ability. This is per my dealer service manager this past week.
The Recaro problem might be only the pretext. The company is struggling with immensely weak sales figures. Just to give you an idea... This year, just 369 Grenadier were newly registered in Germany, a main sales market. That's not even 50 a month.
So going on short-time work due to weak order intake apart from the Recaro dilemma was a logical consequence. With the measure, employers can react to temporary overcapacity and thus avoid worse consequences such as job cuts. They are also able to quickly ramp up production again as soon as the situation improves. I really hope so, but I'm afraid the new marketing approach from George Ratcliffe will appeal to even fewer buyers. Then you'd better get a G63 right away...
Great comment! It could be possible that most of those who wanted Grenadiers, now have one. It remains to be seen how they develop interest and new customers. I do find that people approach me regularly who have never seen nor heard of a Grenadier and are quite intrigued. It may just take time. But yes, the Recaro shut down may have been a bit of a blessing in disguise (?) and provide a little space to re-think a few things to remain strong and viable going forward. I think INEOS is well aware of potential ups and downs, however if the buyers really aren't materializing (and price could be a part of this), it will be interesting to see what they do.
I predicted this from the start. It is a very limited market, niche vehicle that is over-priced against its competitors in that market. Sell a bunch to start, then those that have/ can afford one have one, then what? There are only so many Anglophiles and Europhiles with the money to buy this just because of that, even if it has zero practicality for them, or the competitors are better deals. A few markets might do well, like Australia, but those are small markets and are not going to support the company. For the US market with over 15 million sales a year in vehicles, they did nothing to adapt it to our trails and offroad use or otherwise tune it for American tastes. So we get a vehicle that is more expensive than its competitors and now we still have to dump money into mods. Great vehicle, terrible business strategy.
VINs have passed the 22,500 mark in just over 18 months, with just under 20,000 sold. And that is without the Chinese market, which launched this week.
So what’s the name of that hotel? We are traveling to Hambach in late
October . Thanks .
Please email me privately and I will be happy to share. You can find my address from my channel page (on a desktop apparently and not on mobile) - and the about me section will show you my e-address.
Maybe they need to look to Japan for seats?
Not a bad idea, but I think they will solve this either with Recaro, or with another European vendor. I think logistics would be a different kind of problem that might be introduced.
and engines
It's not easy to start a auto manufacturer company and rebrand a classic style have a price tag 80k and up when inflation is making harder to pay normal monthly bills , i believe this company has 1500 employees and only sold 800 units so far how can anyone stay in business with these numbers looks like more goingout than coming in this will bankrupt any company i really like the grenadier and hope the company can find a way to make it work for starters lower the price make it more affordable like Henry ford did when he started ford as he had plenty of failures in the beginning 😊
Thanks for your comments. To clarify, I only listed US sales numbers and there are many more sold (since 2023) in the other 18 markets served by INEOS. The 800 was current on-the-ground unsold units, not sold units. As of July 31, US had approximately 3,888 sold and were averaging around 500/mo. sales over the past 3 months. Grenadiers are selling. The question was if they were meeting expectations for INEOS Automotive. If you follow INEOS (the parent company), you will know that they are well funded and private, and can afford to float money losing projects for quite some time with the long range expectation of turning out a winner. I think they will tweak things here and there and eventually have things in balance, and have the luxury to do that. Time will tell, but I'm optimistic. And as you say, look at Ford. Winning years, losing years. They've had it all.
i have a 2016 disco 4, best drive ever, yes the engine bothers me, but NOTHING, NOTHING at all drives as well
Thanks for the comment. I had a 2001 Disco 2 and it was a favorite. I found it to be quite nimble and really enjoyed it.
I had a V8 disco 2 and a 2011 Disco 4. The D4 was one of the best cars I owned. I now have a top spec IG (one of three cars). Overall driving experience on road is somewhere between the D2 and D4. Offroad is better than our 2015 Defender.
If you are not going rock climbing everyday, keep away from it, and 90% of it not equipped with rear lockers, means just for your daily commute. It is a town car! Then horrible design, small side mirror, you have to purchase a separate step to get in easily, you have to lift your leg to brake it…, then the never comeback steering. Quite some people traded it in for other cars with only 300 or 400 miles on it. Atlanta has over 80 covered with dust. Go figure!😢
Thanks for commenting. You make the point - it's said to be off-road focus, but that's an optional extra - so somebody had to be thinking that there would be an on-road market too. However, this story isn't new. Range Rover's humble beginnings were similar and 40 years later look at what it's become....
Hard to get? Rusnak Inneos has 31 sitting on their lot!
Agreed! There were a lot of cancelled orders and what I have seen as reasons range from financial change of circumstance (we put deposits down a year and a half ago), or they didn't like how certain features turned out, didn't like the color once they saw it, etc. But that oversupply that they were trying to push now may become the ONLY supply that dealers have for several months - and I'm not sure if that changes things. We shall see, won't we? Thanks for commenting!
Discounts?
@@RootBeerGMT You can call them/message them to ask. It does not look like they are moving many because about a month ago it was maybe 20 sitting there.
Some people claim they are selling well, are all over the Los Angeles area. But I am in the south bay - Hermosa/Manhattan/Redondo Beach and I have not seen one in months. And this is a wealthy area where people have the latest, fanciest everything.
Atlanta has over 80 covered with dust!
@@XPRoller good grief that is awful. That means this is a flop in the USA. People are willing to pay $80k (including dealer mark up) for the new Land Cruiser so the soending money is there. I think this is the fault of Inneos not having a decent advertising campaign.
Most people have no idea who or what they are.
That “upmarket” is not anymore a blue ocean market but rather a red ocean and they risk not succeed, as those places are well guarded ….
Great comment! It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
@@MyAutomobileObsession I beieve that they are looking for the “upmarket” as their production capacity would not allow them to be as profitable when staying in the mid market. But this is a game the huge companies recently lost in horrible way … look at the USA - the writing is on the wall and glowing
Definitely not going to have a dry spell the 100k ineos will become 60k very shortly
There not selling as fast as they hoped as they overpriced them
Thanks for your comment. I agree that they have a situation on their hands with too many cars (at that price), but it appears to be industry wide (except for Asian cars). EV's are piling up, Trucks, etc. I think everybody who wanted to buy after the Pandemic has already done so, and nobody needs a new car year after year.
I bet ineos buy recaro..and bring it into profit again.
Thanks for the comment. It's certainly not a far-fetched idea knowing that Jim Ratcliffe bought Belstaf (the clothing company and namesake for the Fieldmaster and Trialmaster) because it was in financial trouble. Time will tell!
How much they pay you to wear the stupid T-shirt
Ouch! I bought the shirt, so blame me. I'm not a plant for INEOS, just a fan. My apologies if you found it offensive.
@@MyAutomobileObsessionAw... that's not fair. I think it is cool. Unfortunately, it is about the only IG product that I can afford to buy 😃
Thanks for the update. This sounds like Bricklin, DeLorean, and Fisker, all rolled into one. Who wants to wait for a car that may never be produced? No seats. Really?
Thanks for your comment. I think what sets this apart from the brands you listed is the financial backing at play. INEOS is a privately owned mega company, and they don't always follow the standard playbook. I don't think the insolvency of Recaro will grind them to a halt as much as the softening demand for autos at this price point. I would not be surprised to see INEOS heavily invest in, or buy Recaro.
@@MyAutomobileObsessioneither that or go to someone like Lear to provide a similar product
More like trying to clear the 2024 inventory. All dealers seem to be loaded with them, and they are starting to discount to move them. This is the perfect ploy to retain pricing and clear the 24's.
I will be buying a Toyota Land Cruiser instead !
The very limited demand for the Ineos will be met shortly if it has not already and there is no way they will be able to remain solvent for very long.
@@JetSkiSuper7 Agree!
Great Point! But the manufacturing shut down due to Recaro pulling the plug is no ploy. That does not mean that they need to clear out those remaining 24's. Frankly, I think their plan would have been to blow them out and start fresh with the 2025's as they handle orders differently now and potential customers won't place orders for Grenadiers with no (or a strange mix of) options. And the 2025's are at a new, higher price - already. So, now that we won't see 2025's for a while it will be interesting to see how they approach. As for the business problem, INEOS is really well funded and finding more business thatn anticipated in the UAE and other markets. The U.S. is only one of 17 at the moment, and they are heading for 20. If the company fails, it will be a spectacular failure. I'm not thinking that will happen, but also don't know if it will all be smooth sailing, either. Thanks for your comments!
Not sure where you are located, but nearly all on the Boston area lot are already spoken for. I doubt this is a model year close out sort of thing.
@@dpl2617 a 4 cylinder?
I looked at one off these theŕs no way i would order one with the price there asking the residual price is way to low i brought a better name brand truck
Thanks for commenting. I would agree that there is a lot of choice in the market today, and the Grenadier is somewhat niche. But I'm old enough to remember when Toyota was a young brand in the US, and nobody felt they were a brand name either. It's a matter of time - and it does take time. As for residuals, I have not seen any data, so that is an interesting point you make. I'll have to check that out.
Make one that costs $45k.
I'll bite. What would you subtract from the existing Grenadier?
I also thought if they would add a “bass-trim” Grenadier with cloth seats that sits below the current lineup.
Cloth seats are the base seats. Leather is an option. A no frills Grenadier is just over $70K.
Thanks for jumping in! Cloth seats are standard on the Station Wagon and the Trialmaster.
How is your IG working out so far? Issues?
Thanks for the question! I'm doing remarkably well with it. No mechanical issues. Anything that I'm having trouble with is more in the category of "I don't like the way they implemented the feature" and alot of that is software related. But overall, good.
@@MyAutomobileObsession We had software problems initially in Australia but that was resolved after around 6 months and now no problems at all. I also had a faulty rear door sensor that was replaced.
Can’t they find another supplier?
I would think yes, but if the new supplier doesn't make an exact replica of the Recaro seat, it may need new safety certification and so on. That's the hard part, I think. Thanks for commenting!
It's no loss..the vehicle is old fashioned lump without being too impolite..
Radcliffe needs urgently interviewing as he is abandoning other operations in the petro chemical industry..
Seats can be for from 20 suppliers..that excuse is a load of tosh..
All seats are type approved to a standard.
Sounds more like an Ineos liquidity issue.
Great comments. Time will tell, but I do know that INEOS has lots of pocket money. As for the old fashioned lump comment - I somehow thinks that is where the popularity is coming from. Some folks want a sturdy old fashioned lump! To each, his own. Right?
@@MyAutomobileObsessionI have to wonder how many of t people commenting have driven one. They have much more personality than a Toyota or Jeep Wrangler Rubicon and far more capable than the Bronco.
DILERS GIVE ME VERY GOOD OFFERS FOR 2023
Thanks for commenting. We didn't ever get the 2023 in the U.S., we started with the 2024 Model Year. I am surprised to hear that there are some 2023's still available, but somehow not surprised.
What the hell is an Ineos?
Yours is my favorite comment! However, I can't tell if you wandered into the wrong place, or are pulling my leg. In case you really don't know, visit ineosgrenadier.com and all will become clear. Thanks for your comment!
You gotta to love capitalism, there is nothing private equity touches that does not turn to absolute sh…?
As for Ineos, this may not be the only EU supplier facing doom, Germany is in a very poor state especially
Good point! I've been seeing loads about German manufacturers putting the brakes on certain production and suppliers falling into financial hard times.
A.K.A - Rich people problems. LOL
I suppose so. Thanks for your comment.
😂 Manchester United stock not doing too well…
If Manchester United suddenly has "RECARO" on the front of their jerseys, we will know what that means...
Let’s say you have an issue with your recaros in a year or two. Or ten. 😂🎉
Good question! Grenadier's come with a 5 year warranty at the moment (In the U.S.) so their on the hook for at least that long. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed that if something goes wrong, it's not with the seat! Also, the seats have built-in airbags, so not sure about replacement in the event they deploy.
A friend of mine who had a shop here in Montéal had to work on a Laforza.....parts came from 10 different car....😅😅😅😅😅
@@MyAutomobileObsessionthe car would be sent to the crusher for a minor impact....insurance do not like paying 10 month of replacement car rental
I think the Ineos Grenadier will be an orphan. My local dealer has tons of inventory that isn’t moving. The seat issue may be the nail in the coffin.
Thanks for your comment. Time will certainly tell. I feel that INEOS is so well funded that they'll put up a good fight before they fold.
Why anyone would buy an Ineos over the new Land Cruiser is beyond me.
That's not surprising!
Thanks for commenting - you know, that's what makes the world go round. We all have different preferences. The Land Cruiser is great!