Update: I got an email from INEOS the day of releasing this, the Quartermaster is indeed coming to the USA. Based off of UK pricing, this truck might be around $110,000.00
You seem fairly miss-informed on the vehicle. You believe the windshield is a bespoke design? The rest of the vehicle is a parts bin project, designed and built by Magna Steyr (who builds the G-Wagon and the UniMog) to travel the world and have easy access to service, yet you don't think the most breakable part isn't already in production for another vehicle like maybe the original G-wagon? Also the differentials are built by Eaton. The same company everyone uses. It is just the axles that are built by Cararo, but they use the same bolt pattern used on many vans like Toyota, Mercedes, Volkswagen, and Chevrolet.
Before they do put it to market. I think they should take a close look at the jeep gladiator. Right now the gladiator is having to give in upwards of $15,000 back in rebates because they are well over priced for their market. In 2023 jeep gladiator was the worst selling vehicle in their class. By far. Ford, Chevy, and even Toyota out sold it by a decent margin. Mainly because of its price. If this vehicle comes to market in the United States at that price tag. We all know that it won’t last long. Kind of like the Lincoln pick up. This will be another vehicle that someone Will be able to pick up or pennies to the dollar on the used car market. Kinda like you see Maseratis being sold for more than 50% cheaper at some back Alley or small town used car dealership. They will probably be sold to people who want to buy it to get that “status” and who will not be able to afford to maintain it because of its high parts and maintenance price
As an owner of both a Grenadier and and FJ, I disagree with much of this. The Grenadier is in a totally different size class v's the FJ and the storage capacity is massively different. Much as I love the FJ, the Grenadier is just on a different level. I think much of this review is pitched very negatively, and some of it is subjective. I gather that the Ineos customer service experience has been less than stellar, but it's not correct to say it is universally so. My own experience has been top notch and I know of plenty of others who have aso had good experience. Another aspect that is overlooked in the whole...."The Grenadier is too expensive" debate is that this is Ineos's first vehicle, which was developed in the middle of a global pandemic. With supply chains only just starting to get back to normal, I think it's staggering that the Ineos Grenadier even exists. Cost increases were inevitable and Ineos are not the only manufacturer to increase prices. Also, when you look at Toyota, Ford, etc, etc. who each have over 100 years experience of building cars, you would expect that they can keep a better handle on costs. Ineos are a new and niche builder who have created a vehicle that has more in common with a previous generation G Wagon than a Totota landcruiser or Jeep. In terms of cost, I think a comparison with the G-wagon is more realistic. Here it actually looks like pretty good value when you consider the components used and life expectancy of the vehicle. In terms of servicing and the 3d repair manual.....yes with limited supply network, servicing is going to be more of a challenge, but I'm sure this will improve. Also, the 3d workshop manual has not yet been delivered, but Ineos are likely just late with this, they haven't said they are not supplying it. I do agree that the Grenadier is first and foremost an overlanding vehicle. It was never pitched as a jeep equivalent or rock crawler, so it's a bit disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Is the Grenadier perfect...absolutely not! No vehicle is. However, it has delivered on virtually every aspect v's the original remit. I have found it totally reliable, a pleasure to drive and very capable on trips/camping expeditions. Sure, some things could be better, and they overlooked a few things; but as a first car, I feel they really knocked it out of the park. It should be celebrated that someone had the balls to build such a car in 2023/24.
As I stated at the beginning, I understand its in a different class than the Toyotas. And its not really that much more space, at least for my use. To buy a vehicle that expensive, cut the roof off, for minimal space wasn't going to work for me. As stated, these are my personal reasons for not buying it.
I am shopping for my next 4WD. I've had a ton of Jeep's, and Toyota's. Grenadier has my attention, and I'm researching heavily. Your comment gives me hope. Looking at Trialmaster or Fieldmaster, but it needs to be lifted and needs steering dampeners, and it needs bigger tires. Agile Off-road offers packages to do all of this.
My thoughts exactly. I have followed this vehicle from the start. Being an owner of Toyota trucks since I got my license when I was 15 in South America this vehicle is the most utilitarian vehicle I have driven since I moved to Canada many decades ago. Personally, I am not worried about parts and service with my Grenadier for as long the warranty it’s on, which is 5 years or 100 kilometres (60 miles) whichever comes first. After that yes, I would expect to have access to parts and manuals to work and do repairs on my vehicle. Other than that I am just lucky to have the dealership just 15 minutes away from where I live.
You’re so right I was seriously looking at purchasing one for myself but the price increases and the lack of information on repairs and wiring diagrams etc. Put me off. Luckily I live in a country where we can still get the land cruiser 70s series. The Stars aligned and I was extremely lucky to purchase one of the very last available in New Zealand Troop Carriers 78 (the 76 and two models of the 79 are still available). The main things that sort on the Toyota was my local dealership is around about 2 km away from my own in a small town, manual transmission still available, come standard with front and rear differential locks, has a decent fuel science range of 180 L of diesel. I would rather have had the option. They have an Africa with a straight six mechanical diesel but something we can’t have. All the best with your Toyota and hopefully it arrives soon .
No shit Sherlock, that’s exactly what I’m saying. I’m running a business using the next truck I buy. Waiting on INEOS to find time to release repair information that was promised years ago rules it out.
all valid points...the windshield in particular is a problem for me....don't want to drive down to the springs every time a crack forms....and they seem to form often
I have never heard of the stuff, I will probably be buying some for my Fj right away. But that was just an example, other parts with be in the same boat as far as being hard to source for a while. @@ElderStatesman-pi3lc
@@IndependenceOverlandoh Lord - I’m so sorry!!! They sell stock kits to self install for Bronco and Wrangler/Rubicon - not sure about FJ. I don’t think so. Everything else you have to have installed - it’s a laminate that will NOT affect ADAS and lasts multiple years. The kit is slightly thicker (called UltraShield) but the regular should provide good protection. I think it’s 5mm. Just look up their site - they have a map of all installer contractors. It’s not too expensive- I think like around $200 plus labor
I would likley flat bed it and do some sort of camper. But as of now, I decided on the Toyota and will continue with that for a while. Maybe some day I will be able to build a Quartermaster, but here in the US the price is insane.
@ ironically here in Ireland the quartermaster attracts less tax than the regular grenadier, which means I look towards the quartermaster, but it’s not as straight forward to sleep solo inside as my old LR3. Good luck with your Toyota and thanks for the response. 👍
Tyler, it sounds to me if the Grenny was 65k with all the off-road options, you would be driving it now. So, it's really about the money. A lot shorter video/ I enjoy all your trips and insight, but this one seems a bit short sighted.
Short sighted? I have quite a pile of reasons here on why I decided not to buy the thing. Price is certainly one of them, but even if pricing would have stayed low, it doesn’t fix some of the most critical issues about customer service and repair information and I would have seen those issues as well, no matter the price. I deal with parts suppliers and other shops on a daily basis. We need help with diagrams and finding parts diagrams on a weekly basis. For this truck to launch a year ago in other markets and not have this information out at this point is unacceptable, it was part of the whole marketing campaign. People are giving it a pass because it looks cool and it’s “built on purpose”. If ANY other manufacturer released a vehicle and without repair information, the Internet forums would be having a frenzy. My decision to not buy the Grenadier is quite well thought out. As stated in the opening, I wasn’t trying to offend anyone who did buy them.
I completely agree, even if they were more price oriented to the new GX 550 they’d sell a hell of a lot more units. Still, there are plenty to see here in SLC. It’s a third car for rich guys.
Was quite excited about the Grenadier so ordered and paid my deposit. Cancelled as my experience with customer service was awful. I had an instinct that there was a problem with the order so kept calling - every time they said it was fine, but of course it wasn’t. When the regional agents were appointed, the local guy inadvertently sent me on an email he had received from Ineos about my order, and the tone and attitude were awful. Cancelled straight away.
I phoned my dealer here in Colorado who a week later finally called me back. In the middle of the conversation we were disconnected, and that was the last I ever heard from them.
Thanks for your openness - I think your reasons are on solid ground - as you say it depends on the owners particular needs - but i suggest that the Old Defender and the 70 series Toyota's are a particular category of vehicle that you can actually configure and live inside - the Grenadier is more like the Gwagon and time will tell about its reliability and service backup - as an older Defender owner i think Landrover probably thew away one of the biggest opportunities to upgrade the Defender - they simply handed that market to Toyota ( 70 series ) but thats another discussion
You mentioned hard to find parts...There's a chap in Australia, (on RUclips) that needed a replacement key...The replacement allegedly cost him over $1000 AUS...
Great overview. I appreciate the way that you broke down your thoughts on the Grenadier. I agree for the most part about company longevity and customer service. Was surprised by your comment about size comparison with the D110, and looking more closely, realizing the 4Runner has about the same cargo space. I think this vehicle is a wait and see how it shapes up in the next few years. Can’t wait to hear about the Trailhunter Tacoma!
Seems a lot of the commenters on here are scared of new/different, and plain outright guessing and making ill-informed comments. Must be hell to live with a negative frame of mind all the time. I’m 10,000km into ownership over 8 months and I’m very happy with it. I applaud Sir Jim for having the balls to do it.
I have one, and I hate it. The fuel system throws a check engine light every time you fill it up, and you have to take it to the dealer to get it turned off. When this happens, it also kills the cruise control. There is a speed warning that has to be turned off every time you start the thing. You need to replace the steering stabilizer for $400.00 to fix the stiff steering issue. The turning radius is the same as a semi-truck. Wait until they fix these issues before buying one.
Did you look at the 2024 4Runner off-road premium with KDSS, cameras, lockers, etc being discounted at $4,000. Add better tires, quality roof rack, lots of room in vehicle. Got mine with rock rails and Wild Peak tires, added great Up top roof rack out of Colorado. Total cost $52,000 for all upgrades. This is a real tank with a dependable and reliable V6 engine.
We have a 2015 4 runner we are ditching for a Grenadier. As he said, they are not in the same class. I am also no longer going to own IFS again. The 4 Runner is reliable, but a nightmare to mod for severe duty work. The Ineos is One Ton stuff, throw some springs, 35" tires and roll out. Not happening on a 4 runner.
@@myauctionaddictionestatesa7451 beautiful vehicle good luck! hope that the billionaire owner stays in business and doesn’t end up like The DMC DeLorean but, time will tell I would wait a least 5years to purchase one but, love those solid axels I miss my 1984 jeep scrambler 🤙🏾I’ll stick to my 4Runner for now.
You and others in the US seem to be unaware of what INEOS is aiming at achieving .... It's what the new Land Rover Defender SHOULD have been ... In the UK (also RHD) the EU and Australia the venerable Landy is the beast 4x4 work horse and it's been used for that for 70 + yrs. The overlanding community is very different to the truck overlanders in the US .... It may be my experience and exposure bias but overlanding across Australia (in a Landy 110) pretty much NO ONE would look at a Jeep or new FJ anything Ford or Toyota as much more than a toy..... I don't think you can get tougher than Australia for the hardest overlanding so that says something for 'product choice'. But as you said, each to their own and only you know how you 'roll' - but great honest video from your perspective!
That much I do understand. XO just took their US Toyotas through Africa and that about pulled them apart. I hope INEOS sticks around to be the last great 4x4, but time will tell. If they do want to be the vehicle that can be used in the most remote travel in Africa and Australia, they better get in gear and release the repair information that was promised up front.
The closed deck B58 should be fine for reliability, but the electronics and turbos on BMWs are not long term items. The block is stout, but that can't be said about the rest of the supporting accessories.
Not the supras specifically, but from leaking seals/failing gaskets, turbo failures, and the typical Bmw electronic gremlins... Even BMW owners count the days until their warranties are up. Source: I'm a previous bmw owner 😊
My wife had a 2010 BMW fully loaded out 535i wagon… Will NEVER buy a BMW or anything parted with BMW again. Reliability fell apart after 55K (and the dealership sucked). Lesson learned. I was stunned when Greny built their rigs around BMW… good luck in the backwoods/desert after 90K miles-and there is a dealership in my town.
Biggest problem in Australia is the floor bulge being on the driver’s side, and very poor range. The fuel tank is just too small, and I haven’t seen any long range tank solution. It just can’t beat a troopy.
Ill start by saying that that roof top tent set up looks sweet. .. i love the Grenadier, partly because i really dig the Defender, and this was actually created to fill the void left by the demise if the Defender (the real ones). I did a build and price on this thing and even my wife said, "that isn't too bad!" Considering all that you get. And it looks quite spacious compared to my Jeep XJ and the wifes JLU. I figured it was going to be pricey .. videos by You Americans, the prices are much lower then here in Canada. I was searching a couple jeeps at a local dealer and a 392 was 134 Grand. The one i was looking for, a Rubicon X... It was 85 Grand. So for what i would get with a Grenadier for that price .. i want the red door!! Its actually not that bad .. but the "build and price" price is completely different then if i went to a dealer ... As in you get to the dealer and that price is waaaay higher. As for crash test, EPA and such things. Im pretty sure Australia's are about the same, or even more strict then North America. So that wouldn't be a concern to me personally. What would concern me is the word BMW under the hood. Im curious how much a routine maintenance would cost. And the repair manuals... Thats a HUGE project. Thats almost tearing the whole thing down again and putting it back together. Until we start breaking them, they won't know the weak spots and what need to be addressed. If i was there id be like, "hurry up and break something!" But not an idiot youtube kind of breakage ... Normal operations breakage. I would still consider it myself. But everything is way to expensive now.. so im not considering anything.
I had seriously considered this vehicle...(see my comments elsewhere...)...I had priced mine out at about $125K CAD + Tax...Much as I really love the vehicle, (test drove one in Toronto...Went to an open house/wine and cheese, in Vancouver), in the end, I just couldn't justify the price...Instead, I just picked up a loaded Jeep JLUR, for an affiliate price of about $75K CAD + Tax, which is still a heck of a lot, but at least $50K cheaper than the Grenadier!
@@tripleseven8361 Oooo! I actually wondered what a dealer sticker price would actually be! And I'm also in BC (Princeton) and that would be a cool idea to go to the coast and do a test drive. But if it's that much, I'd cross the street and grab that Rubicon X.
@@explore_off_road I'm an AC pilot based in Toronto, but I live in New Brunswick...It was just by luck, that after returning from Shanghai, I had dinner with a friend, and came across the open house...Basically, I crashed the party, and justified it with the fact that I had a 'Reservation Number'... I will say, that the guys in Vancouver were very customer oriented....They had just been on a weekend off-road excursion, with a couple of their Grenadiers, and were raving about how great the vehicle was... (Weissach Ineos Grenadier, 1757 W2nd Ave, Vancouver V6V 1H7 - Darren McHattie and Mark Petriw) BTW, before you decide to pick up a Rubicon X, bear in mind, that the X has a different kind of Transfer Case...(Clutches instead of a Chain)...You can still get the older style Transfer Case, but not with the X...And if you don't choose the X, you can't get factory leather or body color fender flares/roof...
Interesting and useful video - thanks for the detail. And I like the T-shirt - sends a nice message. I'm waiting for these new Toyotas to arrive in Australia.
Your video title should be "Why I Cancelled My INEOS Grenadier | Causes For Concern in the United States" Most of the things you mentioned are non-existent in Europe, except maybe for price. Even in Romania, which has awful roads and is mostly rural, Ineos already has a large network of dealerships and service points. Ineos parts are mostly European, and even if they don't have certain parts in stock, delivery takes a few days. You can find most B57 parts at car scrap yards. There are B57 cars with over 500k miles and are in perfect condition, the car is scraped way before the engine dies. In Europe, Toyota parts shipped from Japan (for landcruisers, for example) takes 2 weeks at least. My 2021 Prado was at the dealership for an ECU fault 6 weeks for a replacement. Price-wise, I've spent a lot on modifying the landcruiser with winch, suspension, tires, dual battery system and other things that Ineos already offers in their price point, and if I crash my front end, I don't need to order winch, suspension and other things from different manufacturers and visit 3 workshops to get everything back together, and wasting one month in the process. They are already preparing to open source the infotainment sw and the screen is removable, so the screen issues will be no more. In Europe, people are not usually carrying fridges in the passenger compartment or doing alu-cab conversions, because it is illegal and you risk your plates. The key is 500 Eur, which is the same as any other electronic key from German or French cars. Steelies are 200 Eur a piece, same as other similar brands in similar sizes and materials.
Mate, come to Australia, buy this car, and get stuck somewhere in the middle of nowhere. If you survive, you'll have a completely different opinion about this joke on wheels.
I had it in my scopes. But as a LC 200, 79 Dual Cab and FJ. I could not bring myself to swap any of these for an Ineos. However my friend went for one after selling his LC 100 and LC76. He felt the Ineos is a good replacement for both of these 2 vehicles. I did not see this but he is happy. For you I agree a new Tacoma is tbe way to go.
Yeah the truck bed will be fantastic to have. If we had 70s here, the 79 dual cab would of course be the way I would go. But I will take what I can get!
As a new owner of the Ineos Grenadier, I am thoroughly delighted with the vehicle. While I have encountered some challenges in engaging the differential locks, the overall experience has been overwhelmingly positive. The car's capabilities inspire me to explore off-road adventures every weekend. No regrets so far ❤
I had one and after six dissatisfied months I have sold it and got a Defender which after six months use is in a different class ,now why would I say that ,first off I live in the Highlands of Scotland and live on a sheep farm so need something decent off road and decent on road as it's my only vehicle the grenadier has a strange driving position with my left foot lost for space and skewed also ,there is nowhere to put things ,the roof switch pack is tacky and poor quality,the general interior after six months had squeaks and a few rattles and the plastics scratch ,it's on road manners are average but off road it's pretty good if a bit bouncy ,room in rear is good but not brilliant,I used the rear for feed/bales/posts/tools etc and no seats as I have no children,so the dealer wasn't great and it had a couple of niggles ,EML on etc so after six months I decided to get a defender as it was cheaper and better in every way ,yes another commercial and with good grippy tyres it is a lot easier to drive off road and far far better on road ,faster too ,interior has acres of space to put stuff and has more rear space ,and like my neighbours its been faultless ( they seem to be fine now) it also tows more so its a better car for me ,i appreciate others are going to shout about land rovers reliability but these are fine ,i dont have a toyota dealer nearby and anyway i dont like their interiors and hate pick ups
Based on all your comments. I would have to agree. It’s similar to, but even more extreme, why you should never purchase a brand new model year of an existing vehicle from an existing company. There usually is a bunch of quirks to weed out. Usually done in the next years to come. if you do the research. You will see that for example if Toyota redesigns their Tacoma. You’ll see more recalls come out that very first year of redesign. Then fewer recalls as time goes on with that particular design. Now you bring up this vehicle. Which is completely brand new. That has a foreign power plant in it. in my opinion. This is an accident waiting to happen. I live in a small town in Nebraska. I used to own a BMW. When I needed things done like the air conditioner recharged. I brought it to my friend who runs his own mechanic shop. Who might trust Very much. He recharged the AC system. It never got as cold as it should. Then I brought it to a certified BMW shop, that my stepbrother worked at. In a bigger city. They had to go through and replace almost every AC component. Because things were done incorrectly. This is something that you will find with this vehicle. Even though the engine and drivetrain is used in other vehicles. If they would have put a Toyota engine or a GM engine in it. At least then you would be able to take it to any local shop and get that worked on. Or maybe even work on it yourself. Just because the owner of this company is a billionaire. We all know that people with money think in totally different ways. The concerns they have are completely different than the concerns that we have. For example, if something goes wrong with this vehicle. Number one they have 20 other vehicles to back up on. Number two they call somebody to come and get it and fix it correctly no matter the cost. Number three they purchased vehicles because of a completely different reason than most of us purchased them. As far as us, and I think you are in the same boat. We purchased vehicles to get us to and from work. Sometime, in your case, even, our vehicles are our work. When our vehicle breaks down, that’s not the only burden that we have to deal with. The price of the parts, how readily available the parts are, as well as how quickly we can get somebody to fix it. In your case, if this breaks down and it’s laid up for a couple months. That would mean big dollars not just on the Repair. But on the waste of time that you are unable to put up content. especially when RUclips works on momentum when it comes to their algorithm. Not to mention if you were stuck somewhere and you’re having to either pay to have it hauled home or at the very least pay for you to get home and leave your vehicle at some random shop somewhere. All in all I completely support your decision not to buy this vehicle. I think it would be foolish to buy it just because it looks cool. I am excited to see more content on your other choice. The Toyota. It would be cool if you did a video on the options that this Toyota has and why or why you’re not you would choose the options. I know you probably won’t reveal everything until you have it in hand. But it would be cool to kind of “tease” us a little bit of what’s to come
Yeah, pricing is what did it for me. I'll definitely be checking back in the future, but for right now. A nearly $90k vehicle is a bit out of my budget.
My thought is that IG is an amazing offering out of the gate by a new automobile company …..excellent capabilities and very unique features for off road use [thinking of the option for an extra battery, and four roof mounted plugs for auxiliaries]. As such, IG does not have the same economies of scale that Toyota / Lexus enjoy. As a result, the price per part will have to be higher. Add that into the fact that much of the value / price was invested into the drivetrain, heavy duty suspension etc; as opposed to investing money into the interior features and textures - i.e. lack of highest quality materials, no electric seats, piano black door panels, plasticky dash and mediocre quality screen. So while I give great credit to IG for what it is, the Toyota LC or Lexus GX 550 offer more for the money, and their value will likely remain longer than the IG overtime. The long term reliability question is the biggest question…and that future value is in question…My local IG dealer said that lease rates are high resulting in more expensive monthly lease payments than monthly purchase payments. This reflects the banks being unsure of future values. So we can expect the Toyota products to be more affordable as a result. In doing so you give up a third locker, solid front axle, unique styling, the cool factor of the IG.
When I spec'd out my Grenadier vs. my 2024 Land Cruiser the difference was about 10K. Not as much as I would have expected, but I'm just a sample size of 1.
@@acmhc8 My IG order is for $88K, plus tax of 8K plus fees takes me to $96K +……compared to a GX550 Overtrail with MSRP of $73K…..big potential difference of about $15k between vehicles …..FYI I will not pay a Lexus dealer markup no matter, so I’m not factoring that into the price difference
everything you said is true! exciting new vehicle, yet unproven and unknown reliability! we'll see how the company grows with customer service and delivering on promises. I hope they can work through these issues, as I think it's a cool vehicle, but I can't spend that much on unknown! THANKS for an honest comment on why you've changed your mind! kudos to you!
I’m glad someone had positive feedback on this video! Lots of people seemed to have gotten offended by it, or thought it was disingenuous. Just sharing my thoughts over here and people get mad! 😂 I appreciate your comment sir!
I cancelled my order from my experience with their customer service. I was an early reservation and when my spot suddenly moved towards the back after they "upgraded their queue system" their customer service refused to look into it or do anything about it. Oh and of course they were rude as hell lol. Wild coming from the G wagen on new defender buying experience where the sales reps call me to wish me a happy birthday and such.
If we are talking about reliability…we should never mention Jeep anywhere in the video, lol. Test drove the Grenaider and a day later took home the Fieldmaster and never looked back. It’s awesome and my experience with the dealership/customer service has been excellent. Everywhere I go people as me about and take time to look inside the cabin and check it out. I haven’t seen much issue with aftermarket…seems to be a lot of stuff by companies like Black Sheep etc. I did have to order the bull bar and side rails from a dealership in Australia which is annoying but not a big deal. My dealership 24 miles away so I’m fortunate for that. I do think anyone considering one should do it. Lots of good points but a lot of it is subjective based on how you plan on using it. A lot of us aren’t planning on driving to Alaska but want something they go off-roading that’s built like a tank. Good video though.
I am surprised you were able to find one so easily. That's awesome! Yes, this video was very specific to me, I think others missed that part. In time, and once they have proven themselves a bit more, perhaps I will reconsider. The Quartermaster would probably fit me better at this point though. I appreciate your comment!
I seen the grenadier in person the other day and i thought itd be bigger than it is. It looks big in pictures but its kind of LC80 sized. Interesting vehicle.
A deal breaker for me was the RHD intrusion of the footwell where you rest your foot, I looked at them and this issue is very annoying, I believe it's something to do with the exhaust system, so I'm now looking at the 2024 70 series Land cruiser instead.
I had a 2020 Gladiator Rubicon Dana 44 front axle pumpkin shatter in -38 C weather, when I skidded into a concrete barrier. A 2 month wait on Dana 44 Advantek differential shims is a reality. Part sourcing is a nightmare these days. Windshields in a Gladiator is terrible. If you breath wrong onto the windshield it will get a thermal crack in it. My cracks in my windshield are dated by the cold snap weather we had, ie June cold snap; September cold snap; and April construction zone chip. Aftermarket parts are all $1000 each. Here in Canada we have to deal with the dollar imbalance. Everything here is double the price .
Yeah my Fj is a rock magnet too. Parts are definitely an issue with everything, we deal with it at the shop on a weekly basis. If getting parts for a common vehicle is hard, I can only imagine something like the Grenadier will be harder/take longer. There’s always the possibility that I’m wrong though.
I saw a video with a look underneath the chassis...the drive shafts were no bueno. Rzeppa style CV's all around, both driveshafts were offset laterally from the transfer case to the diffs on front and back. Those CV's will be constantly blowing out.
I hope not for the sake of the owners, but time will tell. The 100k miles point is when we will really start to see how they are holding up, but it will be a while before we see those probably. They are so expensive I doubt many people will buy them to rack up the miles on them right away.
I have a RHD Trialmaster and it's been solid. Some of your concerns are truly valid, but to be honest it seems to me you were never interested in buying one and just finding excuses and talked yourself out of it.
Nope, I was very interested in it. I was talking with Alucab about the roof conversions long before they were unveiled officially, I was on the forums, and I was reading a lot about the vehicles. I applied for the "Hard Road Home" and I also sent out emails to the company after my deposit with various questions and rarely got feedback. I was part of this when they were sending out the videos about "we realize our communication hasn't been great and will now do better" which didn't happen. The reasons I personally decided to not buy this vehicle are in the video you just watched (or maybe you didn't). I had a deposit, and I cancelled it.
A Tacoma and an FJ Cruiser are so similar, I would think a 1/2 ton pickup (Tundra or F150, etc.) with an Alucabin in the back would be way more capable and comfortable for the long hauls for a guy gettin older, then you'd have your FJ for tighter type trails.
Just want a warm space to climb into with relative ease. I’ll be 40 in just a few short years, so I’ve still got the will power to have a narrow, more trail friendly truck. Midsize is the size for me, for now.
@@IndependenceOverland I hear ya, I'm 47. My experience, full size trucks waay more comfy on the highway, seating position, space, the power, better sound insulation, safer, all of it. We'll see with the new tacoma, but the argument has always been in my mind, why spend the same, get the same gas mileage for inferior performance in a smaller package? You gotta really like tacomas for that to come out as the better choice. I think being able to fit on tighter trails would be about the only pro in that column.
Sounds like an impulse reaction to the beauty of the vehicle led you to put down the deposit that you walked back later after thinking it through. Which is totally fine. I agree with about half of your criticisms and concerns, especially if Ineos has failed to deliver on a promise they made in regard to the repair manuals. I do live near a dealer but yeah there's always a risk of high-cost towing if you're on a trip and experience a catastrophic breakdown. Not too concerned about that though. A few notes for you: Grain of salt, but according to a quick google search the RTI is comparable to a Jeep Wrangler JKU (front swaybar connected). This is good, but hopefully the aftermarket will develop a disconnect for the Grenadier. In that case, I anticipate that some modifications may be necessary to take advantage of additional flex. But let's see; time will tell. Personally, I'm still excited to check one out up close. Might pick one up for my next vehicle.
Yes, seeing one will get you very excited. They are beautiful and they are built to be durable. Working on commercial vehicles, it gave me the impression that it physically hold up. But the engine issues/parts issues and the extremely high price scared me off. If no other issues existed, I probably still would have backed out for the price once they shared how expensive it would be. If it were a vehicle like a Toyota with more backing, and a proven reputation then I wouldn’t be as concerned about the price.
I cant believe how much I am about to spend on a Tacoma. Times are crazy, but for 90k I can have a new Toyota truck, with a camper on the back. Is it the right choice? Who knows, time will tell.
I’m not a big fan of screens either. My Raptors screen is pretty much shot. It doesn’t use the rear camera most of the time and the touch is completely off. I’ve reset it and that doesn’t work. To replace it is more than I’d like to pay. Thought about trading for a Gladiator but when I tested one of those brand new the screen was already glitching.
It's a personal decision. Shame that folks would get upset about that. Your reasons are sound. It's a beautiful truck. Expensive too. The concerns you have are very valid. Appreciate you being so transparent.
I don't think people are upset by his decision, and he does make a few good points. However, to frame it as negatively in some instances, based on what has been read, rather than first hand experience is a bit off in my view. This channel has quite a following and influence and although he states in the beginning that it's his personal opinion...most people don't hear that. Many are sheep who don't seem to have one original thought in their head....it seems!
Regardless of whether one happens to be a Jeep fan or not, I think it's fair to say that the Chrysler/Jeep engineers did an awesome job of the interior dash design on the 2024 JL...It's a wonderful ergonomic blend of analog and tech in a great presentation!
I've got an order for a Grenadier, and based on your criteria, I agree with your concerns. I overland more and am sort of looking for something unique, so I'm staying with my decision. I think your assessment of the risk is on point. It's a new car, designed in Britain and built in France; nothing can go wrong with that, right?
Haha yeah, of course it be the best vehicle you ever owned! I’m planning on putting a lot of money into the my next build, on top of the vehicle itself. So the risk associated for the limited space just doesn’t make sense. I hope you love yours, and I hope INEOS is wildly successful.
Grenadier is good, but it’s only INEOS Automotive’s first car, and does need to further improve and expand, I don’t think it’s a flop by any means like most companies first products… their going to have some issues. I think INEOS should do and this is not just coming from me is to launch a more stripped out version/edition without things like Recaro seats, electric windows and glossy finishes, and instead a plan black or grey interior and only the bare basics and plastic bumpers to add a more budget friendly Grenadier for wider range of buyers from overlanders, fleet buyers, military, mining companies, government and NGOs as well as those just interested in tough 4x4s without spending heaps on the thing, another thing would be investing in their own drivetrains and having a single rear exhaust outlet so they can come with a larger fuel tank and of cause keeping reliability and robustness in mind. That will actually fill the gap the old JLR Defender left and complete with the Toyota 70s. Otherwise you’re stuck with a Merc G Wagon competitor more or less.
Almost all valid points. Owners of the Grenadier accept all of those criticisms and could add some more, but choose a unique, rare, and somewhat exclusive vehicle anyway. You do Toyota, great. It's just what you need.
Unique and rare is excellent for those that can afford to pay the extra for it. I can afford the truck, I just can’t afford the risks associated with it.
I'm confused when you say the vehicle provides a small space. The thing is massive, and you mentioned that the Taco will give you more space, which does not make sence. The Taco has a cramped rear seat area, and that doesn't change if you get the 6 foot bed on the trail hunter. Funally, rapairing a hybrid (wich is the only thing you'll get on the trailhunter Taco) is not easy work and they battery is under the rear seats too.... it sounds more like a "the price is too high" situation and your just telling us random reasons that don't add up.
The outside is massive, the interior is not. That is a shared opinion among many. You think it will be massive on the inside until you climb in one. And yes, the Tacoma has more usable space by far. Its a truck. It has a 5x5 foot bed with only the wheel wells as intrusions. That is a LOT more space to work with, plus it has the back seats. I am baffled on how you think the bed of the truck and the cargo area of the Grenadier are anywhere close to eachother in size. Even INEOS is launching the Quartermaster for this very reason. Yes, the starting battery and hybrid battery is under the rear seats of the hyrbid Tacomas, but the bulk of the electronics are not. But it still isn't the same thing. I am not building a living space on top of it in the Tacoma. It has an entire separate rear space. The Tacoma project is going to cost me more than the Grenadier with the roof conversion, but quite a bit. Dumping that kind of money into something that the OEM hasnt even supplied DIY repair info for a year after launch is concerning. I am spending a lot of money on a vehicle, but I can't afford to throw away money on a vehicle. Sorry you dont like my opinion on the Grenadier.
The B58 is an inline 6, not a V6. Probably a distinction without a difference to most people, but in the interest of accuracy. I have an LC100, and it's not a rare vehicle. But getting certain parts for it can be challenging, I can't imagine how difficult parts for this Ineos would be, especially if pulls out of the US.
I think the cost will be the issue with this thing. It’s a very cool and seemingly durable vehicle, but you can get a 4Runner for half the price and it’s just as capable and in some ways more utilitarian.
Yeah but that’s an 85k truck that you gotta modify, which wouldn’t be cheap either. Not sure it would be worth the hassle. Plenty of people have been very happy with their Grenadiers so far. I haven’t heard of many other issues.
I saw my first Grenadier just two days ago and talk with the owner. After watching your video I now understand why the owner did not seem super enthused. He actually told me he wishes now he had just bought a Tacoma. I myself drive a 2021 Tacoma with a 6’ bed and a pop-up GoFast topper that I can stand up in. The only thing I don’t like about my set up is having to get out of the back and in the cab in case of an fast bug-out. But no one rig can provide everything.
Unfortunately I agree with everything you said here. The worst customer service I’ve ever seen. That’s coming from a customer who followed the development for six years and did everything I could to order a vehicle. Way too much technology and Nannies in a vehicle designed for the opposite. Complete failure of mission. Two billion dollars wasted
All valid points. Lack of a dealer network and potential costs as you said could be big issues. As owner of an old GX470 that I have lifted for off roading it is so true Toyota vehicles are very reliable. As mechanics say, when a german vehicle (engine in this case) gets to 100k miles just leave it on the side of the road with the keys in it. That said, I visited the dealer in Colo Springs a month ago and just about every one on the lot was sold. They said a six month wait once you order so there are more than a few people who have the $$ to buy them. I was impressed with the overall vehicle and quality for a new vehicle was impressive. It is an old school truck with a solid front axle for people who appreciate it and for that i think it is cool. When just about every SUV and 4x4 looks the same there is nothing like it on the road. Time will tell about BMW engine, etc.
Will said if people don't understand your reasons for not going ahead with your purchase will what can we say . Personally I think its 'a very wise move the first of anything is always suspect.
I canceled my order after learning Ineos is not and has no plans to produce a technical service manual. Can you imagine purchasing a vehicle to take out into the bush and the manufacture wanting you to phone service 300 miles away if anything breaks? Ridiculous!
I could be wrong because I haven’t been keeping up with this vehicle much but isn’t this supposed to be a barebones off-roader? Everything you need and nothing you don’t? If that’s the case, 90k seems crazy to me.
You can see how US government regulations are limiting our options needlessly. You bring up valid concerns. Until critical mass is reached in production there will be a concern. I hope they are successful. We need more competition in this space. Good luck with the Toyota.
Yeah it’s not that big on the inside, I wish it was. The day I posted this video the Quartermaster got released for reservations, but they start at 95k for one with the off road goodies.
Nice to see all the ins and outs of a like minded person making decisions on vehicles to purchase for this kind of activity. What do you think about the rumors of the v6 being put in the tacoma in 2025?
BMW can service the B58. I've had many BMW's, and it's a solid engine. Walnut blasting at 40K, and proper maintenance. All good. Not sure of the hate for a BMW powerplant. Very strange. Is it a Toyota engine? No. Perhaps that's the root of your hesitation.
Not even Toyota engines are Toyota engines any longer - everyone is talking about them like they’re still offering the naturally aspirated 6 - that’s done. Over. Welcome to hybrid 4. That’s your new reality from Toyota. SUCH a bummer.
Part of it. It’s a combination of things. As stated in the video: Some are my personal reasons and the video was directed towards people who didn’t know why I would cancel it, and were disappointed to hear about it. (I had gained quite a few subscribers from previous videos on the INEOS. In a nutshell: I am spending (a lot) of money to build a new vehicle in this channel. The pricing ended up way over where we thought/ was hinted it was going to be. Taking a risk with a new manufacturer on a new model from a new factory for very little inside space for myself and the wife, or buying a vehicle for around 20k less than I can put a camper on. It’s a risky buy for many of my viewers, so I shared it as such.
I think it was good idea you did not go this way, I could see how you needed a larger overland solution, by the way Toyota Tacoma overview was a good video. PS all the new Vehicles are expensive now Bronco, GX550, Land Cruiser 250. Dealer markups push all them into Grenadier money or more. This is what killed it for me on all three.
Thanks, fixed, was a bit tired yesterday, Pup had me up 10 times the night before, and had long visit to the Vet, he doing better now. @@IndependenceOverland
I'll just keep putting maintenance & upgrade monies into my '95 LR Disco that I've owned since 2001, which is better off-road equipped/modified over the past 23 years than the top of the line Grenadier (not gonna lie, would be nice to have a turbo straight six in my Disco though) rather than paying an overpriced monthly Grenadier payment. I got to attend an early VIP showing of the Grenadier in Las Vegas, which I drove my lifted Disco to - After sitting in the Grenadier and noticing its driver visibility wasn't as good as my Disco's, I invited the North American GM to sit in my driver's seat and I asked him why their new 4x4 had less visibility than my 30 year old one? (An a-hole move I know, but it was a valid question) My wheel base is also shorter, and my Disco weighs 1500 pounds less... and I can also work on it myself. I also don't feel so bad denting, scratching and dinging my '95 D1 compared to an $80,000+ vehicle, that I'd need to drop another $20,000 into to get it to where my Disco already is.
There is definitely something to having an old truck you don't mind getting dented up a fair bit! Its been a long time since I avoided dents and scratches while off road.
Point blank period i think this will be a slow start but will succeed and i mean the first owners are the guinea pigs just like the new toyota and its new engine. Its not gonna be for everyone and thats ok. U make the best decision for you bro. Convenience and lack of headache is a major deciding factor when you spend 90k. Thats a freaking home in some areas and it loses major value as soon as you leave the lot so it has to work for you
I cancelled because of how it reportedly steers on-road (like crap). If IFS is good enough for G-class, it would have been good enough for Grenadier. IFS would make this vehicle appeal to so many more people who rely on it for a daily driver. Again, both G and new Defender do fine off-road, and they both have IFS.
I do think a solid axle is great for a company building what is basically intended on being an off roader. Front IFS is a much more comfortable drive though. But the Grenadier isnt geared towards daily driving, its geared towards the illusion that your gonna ship it to Namibia and live out of it for a month. Which would be amazing to actually do, of course.
Practically all the comments you make are followed by “but”, which pretty much negates whatever you said prior. I’m also not sure what you mean when you talk about the LR110…I’m assuming the older Defender, because the ND doesn’t have that much more room either and obviously a complete departure from a box on frame, solid axle vehicle. Regardless of any extra living space for your needs, the IG is more improved than any old LR110 in pretty much every other spec. Try taking a “16hr “ trip in an old 110 and tell me how you feel after. That right side hump in the IG will seem like a minor inconvenience compared to the experience in a 110. I agree with your statements about the service manuals, dealer network, future parts availability “if” IG fails, and CS (although my CS experience was excellent, I concede that there are a disturbing amount of bad examples by others). IMHO, with the exception of the service manual, these are the risks that a customer takes with a new brand, similar to those that supported Tesla when their future was unknown.
When these were announced and shown I said they will likely fail because of the high cost and lack of dealership service and parts. It's a really nice vehicle but it won't sell in high volume, and depreciation will be really bad.
200 Perfection? Not really. As close as you can get to perfection? Possibly. I have two 200 series Landcruisers. A 2013 and a 2021. The 2013 has had the timing chain cover gasket replaced no small job, no small cost and recently the auto folding mechanism on the driver side mirror failed. Cost to replace the mirror $2,200 dollars more than the timing Cover gasket. Each have long range fuel tanks because without them the trucks are literally useless, at least in Idaho and Montana and Wyoming. I also have just got a Grenadier and so far I’m totally jazzed. Range and reliability are the only question marks.
On another note. It would be cool if you could introduce yourself to this owner of the black INEOS. that way you could see if he could give you any updates of things, good and bad, that he experiences with his. Maybe even give you an opportunity to do a walk around of his vehicle and the options he chose.
I'm a buyer on this thing but being a 60+ year old I know to NEVER buy the 1st year of ANY vehicle. Also, PARTS ! there's a wait for everything... give it a minute... wait a year or 2 then pounce :)
I agree with you I want my Overland vehicle to be reliable and have auto parts stores everywhere for my Toyota 4Runner my next purchase will probably be a pickup truck with Alu-Cab canopy camper either a Tundra or f150 v8 coyote can’t decide have a ikamper mini on the 4Runner I’m just getting a older good choice on your trail hunter taco 🤙🏾
Before deciding against this purchase, my deposit was refunded, sans any explanation as to the reason for it's return...INEOS was relatively quick to respond to my inquiries regarding my 'Reservation Number" but "my" dealer in Toronto has been incognito!... Meanwhile, owing to the very poor Canadian dollar, the price up here, is significantly more than the price in the United States...In addition, anyone purchasing a vehicle which retails for more than $100K, must pay a "Luxury" tax...(If you want the Grenadier to have 'Lockers' etc., IMO, a necessity, , it's well above $100K in Canada), ) Apart from that, there are (currently) only two Canadian Grenadier dealers...One in Toronto and one in Vancouver, so for any repairs or warranty work, (according to INEOS), the vehicle must be brought to a certified dealer...So for me, it's either a 16 hour or a 5 day trek, to the nearest dealer! A few days ago, I purchased a loaded Jeep JLU Rubicon...No doubt, the Grenadier is the superior vehicle, but is it $50K better??
@@IndependenceOverland No doubt, but being a 'relatively' new and untested vehicle...(untested while in customer possession), any warranty work, including software/firmware updates, must be completed by a certified dealer...According to earlier PR info, repairs, etc., were all (potentially), supposed to have been completed by the customer him or herself, while "in the field"! (Sorry, I hadn't yet listened to your entire video, but you've obviously brought up this point as well...)
It's really amazing how much of this stuff you got wrong. Firstly there's no chicken tax in North America which includes Mexico and Canada. Secondly this is longer wider and taller than the old defender 110. So it has more space. Thirdly why is everybody whining about a list of parts that no other dealer supplies on any other vehicle on Earth? If they ever do it it will be a first. Fourthly - this is designed and engineered by Magna Steyr using their catalog of parts bin parts, which means most of the parts underneath are common with one of the forms of G-Wagon that this is basically designed on, including the windshield, the steering box, and the door handle mechanisms. Magna does not build the axles, Cararo does, but the differentials inside them are built by Eaton just like every other North American vehicle.
North America absolutely has a chicken tax for trucks, thats why the new Quartermaster is going to be 100k. Thats also why there are mostly Land Cruiser Troop Carriers imported in the US on a regular basis, but the picksup are far less common. There is a chicken tax even on the 25 year old trucks. SUVs dont have the chicken tax. Perhaps INEOS is just rolling that tax in on their side, and marking the truck up to make up for it. But you are incorrect on the US not having a chicken tax. I could be wrong on the 110, but all the plastics on the interior of the IG still make it not as suitable for an interior buildout. The old box the 110 had was better for that kind of thing. I will say though, the 110 certainly LOOKS bigger. But if I am wrong, I'm wrong. Still doesn't work for me either way. Everyone is whining about parts because parts are pretty important with a vehicle. Crazy, I know. That's good on the diffs. Very cool.
@@IndependenceOverland no what I said is there is no chicken tax "IN" North America... Chicken tax is applied only outside North America. Canada - US - Mexico all have free trade. This is why Toyota can build Tacoma's in Mexico with no chicken tax. Ineos is considering a US factory for Quartermaster. The only bespoke parts are the fenders and doors etc. Engine, transmission, steering box etc all have uses in other trucks or vans. Early adopters have to be acceptable to some inconvenience. Lamborghini doesn't tell you that the side marker light is off a Ford. This truck is basically a reskinned G-wagon with an X5 drivetrain and a special transfer case.
Yeah, and I maintain a fleet of vehicles for a living so that part is not an issue. The issue is that it’s designed to be used maintained and repaired, yet much of that information has yet to see the light of day. This is going on a year now since launch for many of the markets.
I'll agree with the lack of repair manuals; that isn't right. I will say as far as customer service is concerned, I had a question, and I made a simple phone call and spoke to a human within 5 minutes. So, they are accessible.
Ditto - I contacted them 3 times via chat and voice - and it wasn’t AI chat. Real humans - in the UK. Super fast and responsive, and they contacted me multiple times to follow up and let me know how things were progressing.
I’m glad there are some good reports out there on this, because it wasn’t my experience and they have a reputation at this point for not supplying information. Hopefully it’s getting better.
@@IndependenceOverlandI would basically say this - and I think this is your point. If you have the money and are willing to take a little risk and go through the growing pains, great truck, go for it. If you’re going to go wild on modification(like chopping the top), and want fully baked supply chain and service network, this is probably not a good fit. For those of us willing to spend the cash, spend the time, work through the kinks - it’s a lot of fun. Everyone has a different budget and risk tolerance.
@@IndependenceOverlandyour video was fine - this truck really brings out the armchair quarterbacking in everyone. I think your points were fair - I love mine and plan to keep it for many years, just tinkering over the years to personalize it. If I was planning on a major tear-up mod right away, or was too freaked out over parts stock, I would probably be looking for a LC 200 rebuild and just call it a day.
Interesting , I would appear that the Ineos owners reply’s all seem very positive towards the car. Maybe you should have mentioned that the Australian guy you referred to spend half his trip winching and pulling a 79s series Toyota out the mud 😂😂😂 The grenadier is in essence a W463 G wagon replacement with a Better bmw engine in it ! I know I sold my rusting 2018 g wagon for this quality truck
Thank good Toyota finally ditched the absymally under torqued 6 cylinder. Bought one in 2018 and had to sell it after a trip to Florida towing a moderate trailer. The shift, shift. Shift, shift, shift, shifty shift shift shift shift. No thanks. Looks like they got smart put in a turbo 4. My 08 cobalt ss shouldnt make 100ft lbs more torque then my truck. It was embarassing. Its still weak sauce at 317ft/lbs but its better. Especially since the turbos will make good torque under load.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Update: I got an email from INEOS the day of releasing this, the Quartermaster is indeed coming to the USA. Based off of UK pricing, this truck might be around $110,000.00
insane price for a pickup
Magna makes vehicles in Canada. They can avoid the chicken tax putting in line with the Grenadier Wagon
Yes the Chicken Tax on truck is a killer bring them into the states. Toyota Build it trucks in San Antonio Texas to avoid this.
You seem fairly miss-informed on the vehicle. You believe the windshield is a bespoke design? The rest of the vehicle is a parts bin project, designed and built by Magna Steyr (who builds the G-Wagon and the UniMog) to travel the world and have easy access to service, yet you don't think the most breakable part isn't already in production for another vehicle like maybe the original G-wagon? Also the differentials are built by Eaton. The same company everyone uses. It is just the axles that are built by Cararo, but they use the same bolt pattern used on many vans like Toyota, Mercedes, Volkswagen, and Chevrolet.
Before they do put it to market. I think they should take a close look at the jeep gladiator. Right now the gladiator is having to give in upwards of $15,000 back in rebates because they are well over priced for their market. In 2023 jeep gladiator was the worst selling vehicle in their class. By far. Ford, Chevy, and even Toyota out sold it by a decent margin. Mainly because of its price.
If this vehicle comes to market in the United States at that price tag. We all know that it won’t last long. Kind of like the Lincoln pick up. This will be another vehicle that someone Will be able to pick up or pennies to the dollar on the used car market. Kinda like you see Maseratis being sold for more than 50% cheaper at some back Alley or small town used car dealership. They will probably be sold to people who want to buy it to get that “status” and who will not be able to afford to maintain it because of its high parts and maintenance price
As an owner of both a Grenadier and and FJ, I disagree with much of this. The Grenadier is in a totally different size class v's the FJ and the storage capacity is massively different. Much as I love the FJ, the Grenadier is just on a different level. I think much of this review is pitched very negatively, and some of it is subjective. I gather that the Ineos customer service experience has been less than stellar, but it's not correct to say it is universally so. My own experience has been top notch and I know of plenty of others who have aso had good experience. Another aspect that is overlooked in the whole...."The Grenadier is too expensive" debate is that this is Ineos's first vehicle, which was developed in the middle of a global pandemic. With supply chains only just starting to get back to normal, I think it's staggering that the Ineos Grenadier even exists. Cost increases were inevitable and Ineos are not the only manufacturer to increase prices. Also, when you look at Toyota, Ford, etc, etc. who each have over 100 years experience of building cars, you would expect that they can keep a better handle on costs. Ineos are a new and niche builder who have created a vehicle that has more in common with a previous generation G Wagon than a Totota landcruiser or Jeep. In terms of cost, I think a comparison with the G-wagon is more realistic. Here it actually looks like pretty good value when you consider the components used and life expectancy of the vehicle. In terms of servicing and the 3d repair manual.....yes with limited supply network, servicing is going to be more of a challenge, but I'm sure this will improve. Also, the 3d workshop manual has not yet been delivered, but Ineos are likely just late with this, they haven't said they are not supplying it. I do agree that the Grenadier is first and foremost an overlanding vehicle. It was never pitched as a jeep equivalent or rock crawler, so it's a bit disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Is the Grenadier perfect...absolutely not! No vehicle is. However, it has delivered on virtually every aspect v's the original remit. I have found it totally reliable, a pleasure to drive and very capable on trips/camping expeditions. Sure, some things could be better, and they overlooked a few things; but as a first car, I feel they really knocked it out of the park. It should be celebrated that someone had the balls to build such a car in 2023/24.
As I stated at the beginning, I understand its in a different class than the Toyotas. And its not really that much more space, at least for my use. To buy a vehicle that expensive, cut the roof off, for minimal space wasn't going to work for me. As stated, these are my personal reasons for not buying it.
I am shopping for my next 4WD. I've had a ton of Jeep's, and Toyota's. Grenadier has my attention, and I'm researching heavily. Your comment gives me hope. Looking at Trialmaster or Fieldmaster, but it needs to be lifted and needs steering dampeners, and it needs bigger tires. Agile Off-road offers packages to do all of this.
My thoughts exactly. I have followed this vehicle from the start. Being an owner of Toyota trucks since I got my license when I was 15 in South America this vehicle is the most utilitarian vehicle I have driven since I moved to Canada many decades ago.
Personally, I am not worried about parts and service with my Grenadier for as long the warranty it’s on, which is 5 years or 100 kilometres (60 miles) whichever comes first. After that yes, I would expect to have access to parts and manuals to work and do repairs on my vehicle. Other than that I am just lucky to have the dealership just 15 minutes away from where I live.
TLDR.
Good luck...thanks for trying it out
You’re so right
I was seriously looking at purchasing one for myself but the price increases and the lack of information on repairs and wiring diagrams etc. Put me off.
Luckily I live in a country where we can still get the land cruiser 70s series.
The Stars aligned and I was extremely lucky to purchase one of the very last available in New Zealand Troop Carriers 78 (the 76 and two models of the 79 are still available).
The main things that sort on the Toyota was my local dealership is around about 2 km away from my own in a small town, manual transmission still available, come standard with front and rear differential locks, has a decent fuel science range of 180 L of diesel.
I would rather have had the option. They have an Africa with a straight six mechanical diesel but something we can’t have.
All the best with your Toyota and hopefully it arrives soon .
Don't be a winger, this car is an instant classic. You chickened out, own it.
No shit Sherlock, that’s exactly what I’m saying. I’m running a business using the next truck I buy. Waiting on INEOS to find time to release repair information that was promised years ago rules it out.
I agree.he chickened out and came up with a boat load of excuses..... My dog has to look out the windshield!!!! Very creative
all valid points...the windshield in particular is a problem for me....don't want to drive down to the springs every time a crack forms....and they seem to form often
Yeah and like my Fj, it will be a rock magnet
no doubt
@@IndependenceOverland
Just get Exoshield - like all Bronco and Jeep owners. No big deal
I have never heard of the stuff, I will probably be buying some for my Fj right away. But that was just an example, other parts with be in the same boat as far as being hard to source for a while. @@ElderStatesman-pi3lc
@@IndependenceOverlandoh Lord - I’m so sorry!!! They sell stock kits to self install for Bronco and Wrangler/Rubicon - not sure about FJ. I don’t think so. Everything else you have to have installed - it’s a laminate that will NOT affect ADAS and lasts multiple years. The kit is slightly thicker (called UltraShield) but the regular should provide good protection. I think it’s 5mm. Just look up their site - they have a map of all installer contractors. It’s not too expensive- I think like around $200 plus labor
When you say you still might look at the quartermaster, what do you have in mind for the quartermaster in terms of an internal living space?
I would likley flat bed it and do some sort of camper. But as of now, I decided on the Toyota and will continue with that for a while. Maybe some day I will be able to build a Quartermaster, but here in the US the price is insane.
@ ironically here in Ireland the quartermaster attracts less tax than the regular grenadier, which means I look towards the quartermaster, but it’s not as straight forward to sleep solo inside as my old LR3. Good luck with your Toyota and thanks for the response. 👍
Tyler, it sounds to me if the Grenny was 65k with all the off-road options, you would be driving it now. So, it's really about the money. A lot shorter video/ I enjoy all your trips and insight, but this one seems a bit short sighted.
Short sighted? I have quite a pile of reasons here on why I decided not to buy the thing. Price is certainly one of them, but even if pricing would have stayed low, it doesn’t fix some of the most critical issues about customer service and repair information and I would have seen those issues as well, no matter the price.
I deal with parts suppliers and other shops on a daily basis. We need help with diagrams and finding parts diagrams on a weekly basis. For this truck to launch a year ago in other markets and not have this information out at this point is unacceptable, it was part of the whole marketing campaign.
People are giving it a pass because it looks cool and it’s “built on purpose”.
If ANY other manufacturer released a vehicle and without repair information, the Internet forums would be having a frenzy.
My decision to not buy the Grenadier is quite well thought out. As stated in the opening, I wasn’t trying to offend anyone who did buy them.
I completely agree, even if they were more price oriented to the new GX 550 they’d sell a hell of a lot more units. Still, there are plenty to see here in SLC. It’s a third car for rich guys.
Was quite excited about the Grenadier so ordered and paid my deposit. Cancelled as my experience with customer service was awful. I had an instinct that there was a problem with the order so kept calling - every time they said it was fine, but of course it wasn’t. When the regional agents were appointed, the local guy inadvertently sent me on an email he had received from Ineos about my order, and the tone and attitude were awful. Cancelled straight away.
I phoned my dealer here in Colorado who a week later finally called me back. In the middle of the conversation we were disconnected, and that was the last I ever heard from them.
That’s not ineos fault ..it’s an ass hole salesmen
Thanks for your openness - I think your reasons are on solid ground - as you say it depends on the owners particular needs - but i suggest that the Old Defender and the 70 series Toyota's are a particular category of vehicle that you can actually configure and live inside - the Grenadier is more like the Gwagon and time will tell about its reliability and service backup - as an older Defender owner i think Landrover probably thew away one of the biggest opportunities to upgrade the Defender - they simply handed that market to Toyota ( 70 series ) but thats another discussion
You mentioned hard to find parts...There's a chap in Australia, (on RUclips) that needed a replacement key...The replacement allegedly cost him over $1000 AUS...
I mentioned that and linked it in the video
@@IndependenceOverland Yeah...Just heard that...Mea culpa!
Great overview. I appreciate the way that you broke down your thoughts on the Grenadier. I agree for the most part about company longevity and customer service. Was surprised by your comment about size comparison with the D110, and looking more closely, realizing the 4Runner has about the same cargo space. I think this vehicle is a wait and see how it shapes up in the next few years.
Can’t wait to hear about the Trailhunter Tacoma!
Seems a lot of the commenters on here are scared of new/different, and plain outright guessing and making ill-informed comments. Must be hell to live with a negative frame of mind all the time. I’m 10,000km into ownership over 8 months and I’m very happy with it. I applaud Sir Jim for having the balls to do it.
Well presented thank you. Balanced and well thought out.
Thank you!
I have one, and I hate it. The fuel system throws a check engine light every time you fill it up, and you have to take it to the dealer to get it turned off. When this happens, it also kills the cruise control. There is a speed warning that has to be turned off every time you start the thing. You need to replace the steering stabilizer for $400.00 to fix the stiff steering issue. The turning radius is the same as a semi-truck. Wait until they fix these issues before buying one.
Thank you for honest review. Things dealer never told me.
Did you look at the 2024 4Runner off-road premium with KDSS, cameras, lockers, etc being discounted at $4,000. Add better tires, quality roof rack, lots of room in vehicle. Got mine with rock rails and Wild Peak tires, added great Up top roof rack out of Colorado. Total cost $52,000 for all upgrades.
This is a real tank with a dependable and reliable V6 engine.
Agree built to last and diy friendly 🤙🏾
We have a 2015 4 runner we are ditching for a Grenadier. As he said, they are not in the same class. I am also no longer going to own IFS again. The 4 Runner is reliable, but a nightmare to mod for severe duty work. The Ineos is One Ton stuff, throw some springs, 35" tires and roll out. Not happening on a 4 runner.
@@myauctionaddictionestatesa7451 beautiful vehicle good luck! hope that the billionaire owner stays in business and doesn’t end up like The DMC DeLorean but, time will tell I would wait a least 5years to purchase one but, love those solid axels I miss my 1984 jeep scrambler 🤙🏾I’ll stick to my 4Runner for now.
You and others in the US seem to be unaware of what INEOS is aiming at achieving .... It's what the new Land Rover Defender SHOULD have been ... In the UK (also RHD) the EU and Australia the venerable Landy is the beast 4x4 work horse and it's been used for that for 70 + yrs.
The overlanding community is very different to the truck overlanders in the US ....
It may be my experience and exposure bias but overlanding across Australia (in a Landy 110) pretty much NO ONE would look at a Jeep or new FJ anything Ford or Toyota as much more than a toy..... I don't think you can get tougher than Australia for the hardest overlanding so that says something for 'product choice'.
But as you said, each to their own and only you know how you 'roll' - but great honest video from your perspective!
That much I do understand. XO just took their US Toyotas through Africa and that about pulled them apart. I hope INEOS sticks around to be the last great 4x4, but time will tell. If they do want to be the vehicle that can be used in the most remote travel in Africa and Australia, they better get in gear and release the repair information that was promised up front.
The closed deck B58 should be fine for reliability, but the electronics and turbos on BMWs are not long term items. The block is stout, but that can't be said about the rest of the supporting accessories.
Have Supras had problems with the electronics, turbos, aks? Genuinely curious.
Not the supras specifically, but from leaking seals/failing gaskets, turbo failures, and the typical Bmw electronic gremlins... Even BMW owners count the days until their warranties are up. Source: I'm a previous bmw owner 😊
5 year warranty pal
And that's fair, but a lot of people want to own their vehicles longer than 5 years.
My wife had a 2010 BMW fully loaded out 535i wagon… Will NEVER buy a BMW or anything parted with BMW again. Reliability fell apart after 55K (and the dealership sucked). Lesson learned. I was stunned when Greny built their rigs around BMW… good luck in the backwoods/desert after 90K miles-and there is a dealership in my town.
Biggest problem in Australia is the floor bulge being on the driver’s side, and very poor range. The fuel tank is just too small, and I haven’t seen any long range tank solution. It just can’t beat a troopy.
Ah crap I meant to cover the tank issue actually.
Brown Davis does a tank that extends it to 159L
@@mtadc1545 nice
Ill start by saying that that roof top tent set up looks sweet. .. i love the Grenadier, partly because i really dig the Defender, and this was actually created to fill the void left by the demise if the Defender (the real ones). I did a build and price on this thing and even my wife said, "that isn't too bad!" Considering all that you get. And it looks quite spacious compared to my Jeep XJ and the wifes JLU. I figured it was going to be pricey .. videos by You Americans, the prices are much lower then here in Canada. I was searching a couple jeeps at a local dealer and a 392 was 134 Grand. The one i was looking for, a Rubicon X... It was 85 Grand. So for what i would get with a Grenadier for that price .. i want the red door!! Its actually not that bad .. but the "build and price" price is completely different then if i went to a dealer ... As in you get to the dealer and that price is waaaay higher. As for crash test, EPA and such things. Im pretty sure Australia's are about the same, or even more strict then North America. So that wouldn't be a concern to me personally. What would concern me is the word BMW under the hood. Im curious how much a routine maintenance would cost. And the repair manuals... Thats a HUGE project. Thats almost tearing the whole thing down again and putting it back together. Until we start breaking them, they won't know the weak spots and what need to be addressed. If i was there id be like, "hurry up and break something!" But not an idiot youtube kind of breakage ... Normal operations breakage. I would still consider it myself. But everything is way to expensive now.. so im not considering anything.
I had seriously considered this vehicle...(see my comments elsewhere...)...I had priced mine out at about $125K CAD + Tax...Much as I really love the vehicle, (test drove one in Toronto...Went to an open house/wine and cheese, in Vancouver), in the end, I just couldn't justify the price...Instead, I just picked up a loaded Jeep JLUR, for an affiliate price of about $75K CAD + Tax, which is still a heck of a lot, but at least $50K cheaper than the Grenadier!
@@tripleseven8361 Oooo! I actually wondered what a dealer sticker price would actually be! And I'm also in BC (Princeton) and that would be a cool idea to go to the coast and do a test drive. But if it's that much, I'd cross the street and grab that Rubicon X.
@@explore_off_road I'm an AC pilot based in Toronto, but I live in New Brunswick...It was just by luck, that after returning from Shanghai, I had dinner with a friend, and came across the open house...Basically, I crashed the party, and justified it with the fact that I had a 'Reservation Number'...
I will say, that the guys in Vancouver were very customer oriented....They had just been on a weekend off-road excursion, with a couple of their Grenadiers, and were raving about how great the vehicle was...
(Weissach Ineos Grenadier, 1757 W2nd Ave, Vancouver V6V 1H7 - Darren McHattie and Mark Petriw)
BTW, before you decide to pick up a Rubicon X, bear in mind, that the X has a different kind of Transfer Case...(Clutches instead of a Chain)...You can still get the older style Transfer Case, but not with the X...And if you don't choose the X, you can't get factory leather or body color fender flares/roof...
Interesting and useful video - thanks for the detail. And I like the T-shirt - sends a nice message. I'm waiting for these new Toyotas to arrive in Australia.
Working on Australian shipping for all of the shirts on the website 😉
Your video title should be "Why I Cancelled My INEOS Grenadier | Causes For Concern in the United States"
Most of the things you mentioned are non-existent in Europe, except maybe for price. Even in Romania, which has awful roads and is mostly rural, Ineos already has a large network of dealerships and service points. Ineos parts are mostly European, and even if they don't have certain parts in stock, delivery takes a few days. You can find most B57 parts at car scrap yards. There are B57 cars with over 500k miles and are in perfect condition, the car is scraped way before the engine dies. In Europe, Toyota parts shipped from Japan (for landcruisers, for example) takes 2 weeks at least. My 2021 Prado was at the dealership for an ECU fault 6 weeks for a replacement. Price-wise, I've spent a lot on modifying the landcruiser with winch, suspension, tires, dual battery system and other things that Ineos already offers in their price point, and if I crash my front end, I don't need to order winch, suspension and other things from different manufacturers and visit 3 workshops to get everything back together, and wasting one month in the process.
They are already preparing to open source the infotainment sw and the screen is removable, so the screen issues will be no more.
In Europe, people are not usually carrying fridges in the passenger compartment or doing alu-cab conversions, because it is illegal and you risk your plates.
The key is 500 Eur, which is the same as any other electronic key from German or French cars. Steelies are 200 Eur a piece, same as other similar brands in similar sizes and materials.
Well said, the car is built to last with market leading components
Where are people "adventuring" in Europe?
Mate, come to Australia, buy this car, and get stuck somewhere in the middle of nowhere. If you survive, you'll have a completely different opinion about this joke on wheels.
@@australia-ukraineit’s a joke until adoption takes off. Then it’s not a joke.
@@TacoRancher Until!!!
I had it in my scopes. But as a LC 200, 79 Dual Cab and FJ. I could not bring myself to swap any of these for an Ineos. However my friend went for one after selling his LC 100 and LC76. He felt the Ineos is a good replacement for both of these 2 vehicles. I did not see this but he is happy.
For you I agree a new Tacoma is tbe way to go.
Yeah the truck bed will be fantastic to have. If we had 70s here, the 79 dual cab would of course be the way I would go. But I will take what I can get!
As a new owner of the Ineos Grenadier, I am thoroughly delighted with the vehicle. While I have encountered some challenges in engaging the differential locks, the overall experience has been overwhelmingly positive. The car's capabilities inspire me to explore off-road adventures every weekend. No regrets so far ❤
I had one and after six dissatisfied months I have sold it and got a Defender which after six months use is in a different class ,now why would I say that ,first off I live in the Highlands of Scotland and live on a sheep farm so need something decent off road and decent on road as it's my only vehicle the grenadier has a strange driving position with my left foot lost for space and skewed also ,there is nowhere to put things ,the roof switch pack is tacky and poor quality,the general interior after six months had squeaks and a few rattles and the plastics scratch ,it's on road manners are average but off road it's pretty good if a bit bouncy ,room in rear is good but not brilliant,I used the rear for feed/bales/posts/tools etc and no seats as I have no children,so the dealer wasn't great and it had a couple of niggles ,EML on etc so after six months I decided to get a defender as it was cheaper and better in every way ,yes another commercial and with good grippy tyres it is a lot easier to drive off road and far far better on road ,faster too ,interior has acres of space to put stuff and has more rear space ,and like my neighbours its been faultless ( they seem to be fine now) it also tows more so its a better car for me ,i appreciate others are going to shout about land rovers reliability but these are fine ,i dont have a toyota dealer nearby and anyway i dont like their interiors and hate pick ups
I have heard one after another that engaging the locking rear end in front just doesn’t happen constantly trying to redo it
Based on all your comments. I would have to agree. It’s similar to, but even more extreme, why you should never purchase a brand new model year of an existing vehicle from an existing company. There usually is a bunch of quirks to weed out. Usually done in the next years to come. if you do the research. You will see that for example if Toyota redesigns their Tacoma. You’ll see more recalls come out that very first year of redesign. Then fewer recalls as time goes on with that particular design. Now you bring up this vehicle. Which is completely brand new. That has a foreign power plant in it. in my opinion. This is an accident waiting to happen. I live in a small town in Nebraska. I used to own a BMW. When I needed things done like the air conditioner recharged. I brought it to my friend who runs his own mechanic shop. Who might trust Very much. He recharged the AC system. It never got as cold as it should. Then I brought it to a certified BMW shop, that my stepbrother worked at. In a bigger city. They had to go through and replace almost every AC component. Because things were done incorrectly. This is something that you will find with this vehicle. Even though the engine and drivetrain is used in other vehicles. If they would have put a Toyota engine or a GM engine in it. At least then you would be able to take it to any local shop and get that worked on. Or maybe even work on it yourself.
Just because the owner of this company is a billionaire. We all know that people with money think in totally different ways. The concerns they have are completely different than the concerns that we have. For example, if something goes wrong with this vehicle. Number one they have 20 other vehicles to back up on. Number two they call somebody to come and get it and fix it correctly no matter the cost. Number three they purchased vehicles because of a completely different reason than most of us purchased them. As far as us, and I think you are in the same boat. We purchased vehicles to get us to and from work. Sometime, in your case, even, our vehicles are our work. When our vehicle breaks down, that’s not the only burden that we have to deal with. The price of the parts, how readily available the parts are, as well as how quickly we can get somebody to fix it. In your case, if this breaks down and it’s laid up for a couple months. That would mean big dollars not just on the Repair. But on the waste of time that you are unable to put up content. especially when RUclips works on momentum when it comes to their algorithm. Not to mention if you were stuck somewhere and you’re having to either pay to have it hauled home or at the very least pay for you to get home and leave your vehicle at some random shop somewhere.
All in all I completely support your decision not to buy this vehicle. I think it would be foolish to buy it just because it looks cool.
I am excited to see more content on your other choice. The Toyota. It would be cool if you did a video on the options that this Toyota has and why or why you’re not you would choose the options. I know you probably won’t reveal everything until you have it in hand. But it would be cool to kind of “tease” us a little bit of what’s to come
Yeah, pricing is what did it for me. I'll definitely be checking back in the future, but for right now. A nearly $90k vehicle is a bit out of my budget.
Considering the insane price and how awesome the new 2024 Land Cruiser and GX 550 look, I really think INEOS missed the boat.
I’m with you there! Everything is expensive now, but the LC had a the Toyota network backing it at least.
My thought is that IG is an amazing offering out of the gate by a new automobile company …..excellent capabilities and very unique features for off road use [thinking of the option for an extra battery, and four roof mounted plugs for auxiliaries]. As such, IG does not have the same economies of scale that Toyota / Lexus enjoy. As a result, the price per part will have to be higher. Add that into the fact that much of the value / price was invested into the drivetrain, heavy duty suspension etc; as opposed to investing money into the interior features and textures - i.e. lack of highest quality materials, no electric seats, piano black door panels, plasticky dash and mediocre quality screen. So while I give great credit to IG for what it is, the Toyota LC or Lexus GX 550 offer more for the money, and their value will likely remain longer than the IG overtime. The long term reliability question is the biggest question…and that future value is in question…My local IG dealer said that lease rates are high resulting in more expensive monthly lease payments than monthly purchase payments. This reflects the banks being unsure of future values. So we can expect the Toyota products to be more affordable as a result. In doing so you give up a third locker, solid front axle, unique styling, the cool factor of the IG.
When I spec'd out my Grenadier vs. my 2024 Land Cruiser the difference was about 10K. Not as much as I would have expected, but I'm just a sample size of 1.
@@acmhc8 My IG order is for $88K, plus tax of 8K plus fees takes me to $96K +……compared to a GX550 Overtrail with MSRP of $73K…..big potential difference of about $15k between vehicles …..FYI I will not pay a Lexus dealer markup no matter, so I’m not factoring that into the price difference
everything you said is true! exciting new vehicle, yet unproven and unknown reliability! we'll see how the company grows with customer service and delivering on promises. I hope they can work through these issues, as I think it's a cool vehicle, but I can't spend that much on unknown! THANKS for an honest comment on why you've changed your mind! kudos to you!
I’m glad someone had positive feedback on this video! Lots of people seemed to have gotten offended by it, or thought it was disingenuous. Just sharing my thoughts over here and people get mad! 😂
I appreciate your comment sir!
I cancelled my order from my experience with their customer service. I was an early reservation and when my spot suddenly moved towards the back after they "upgraded their queue system" their customer service refused to look into it or do anything about it. Oh and of course they were rude as hell lol. Wild coming from the G wagen on new defender buying experience where the sales reps call me to wish me a happy birthday and such.
Your concerns are very real and now I’m concerned. Thank you for this video.
If we are talking about reliability…we should never mention Jeep anywhere in the video, lol. Test drove the Grenaider and a day later took home the Fieldmaster and never looked back. It’s awesome and my experience with the dealership/customer service has been excellent. Everywhere I go people as me about and take time to look inside the cabin and check it out. I haven’t seen much issue with aftermarket…seems to be a lot of stuff by companies like Black Sheep etc. I did have to order the bull bar and side rails from a dealership in Australia which is annoying but not a big deal. My dealership 24 miles away so I’m fortunate for that. I do think anyone considering one should do it. Lots of good points but a lot of it is subjective based on how you plan on using it. A lot of us aren’t planning on driving to Alaska but want something they go off-roading that’s built like a tank. Good video though.
I am surprised you were able to find one so easily. That's awesome! Yes, this video was very specific to me, I think others missed that part. In time, and once they have proven themselves a bit more, perhaps I will reconsider. The Quartermaster would probably fit me better at this point though. I appreciate your comment!
I seen the grenadier in person the other day and i thought itd be bigger than it is. It looks big in pictures but its kind of LC80 sized. Interesting vehicle.
Yeah It looks huge on the outside, but once you get up close it’s pretty small.
A deal breaker for me was the RHD intrusion of the footwell where you rest your foot, I looked at them and this issue is very annoying, I believe it's something to do with the exhaust system, so I'm now looking at the 2024 70 series Land cruiser instead.
I had a 2020 Gladiator Rubicon Dana 44 front axle pumpkin shatter in -38 C weather, when I skidded into a concrete barrier. A 2 month wait on Dana 44 Advantek differential shims is a reality. Part sourcing is a nightmare these days. Windshields in a Gladiator is terrible. If you breath wrong onto the windshield it will get a thermal crack in it. My cracks in my windshield are dated by the cold snap weather we had, ie June cold snap; September cold snap; and April construction zone chip. Aftermarket parts are all $1000 each. Here in Canada we have to deal with the dollar imbalance. Everything here is double the price .
Yeah my Fj is a rock magnet too. Parts are definitely an issue with everything, we deal with it at the shop on a weekly basis. If getting parts for a common vehicle is hard, I can only imagine something like the Grenadier will be harder/take longer.
There’s always the possibility that I’m wrong though.
The Ineos does drive like my defender 110. I think that’s cool
I saw a video with a look underneath the chassis...the drive shafts were no bueno. Rzeppa style CV's all around, both driveshafts were offset laterally from the transfer case to the diffs on front and back. Those CV's will be constantly blowing out.
I hope not for the sake of the owners, but time will tell. The 100k miles point is when we will really start to see how they are holding up, but it will be a while before we see those probably. They are so expensive I doubt many people will buy them to rack up the miles on them right away.
I have a RHD Trialmaster and it's been solid. Some of your concerns are truly valid, but to be honest it seems to me you were never interested in buying one and just finding excuses and talked yourself out of it.
Nope, I was very interested in it. I was talking with Alucab about the roof conversions long before they were unveiled officially, I was on the forums, and I was reading a lot about the vehicles. I applied for the "Hard Road Home" and I also sent out emails to the company after my deposit with various questions and rarely got feedback. I was part of this when they were sending out the videos about "we realize our communication hasn't been great and will now do better" which didn't happen. The reasons I personally decided to not buy this vehicle are in the video you just watched (or maybe you didn't). I had a deposit, and I cancelled it.
I don't think that's a fair comment...I guess you could say the same about a lot of potential customers then...
Yeahhhh that’s why he put a deposit on one…..
Sorry what’s a RHD Trailmaster is that a side by side vehicle 🤷♂️
having lived in remote area were Volkswagen parts take a week to arrive...reality begs to differ.
I have seen your video in full , but I decided to buy the MB G 400d AMG , it cost a little more , but that´s ok for me .
Why not a real AMG for offroading AND race track?
Regarding suspension articulation etc - what is the suspension travel
A Tacoma and an FJ Cruiser are so similar, I would think a 1/2 ton pickup (Tundra or F150, etc.) with an Alucabin in the back would be way more capable and comfortable for the long hauls for a guy gettin older, then you'd have your FJ for tighter type trails.
Just want a warm space to climb into with relative ease. I’ll be 40 in just a few short years, so I’ve still got the will power to have a narrow, more trail friendly truck. Midsize is the size for me, for now.
@@IndependenceOverland I hear ya, I'm 47. My experience, full size trucks waay more comfy on the highway, seating position, space, the power, better sound insulation, safer, all of it. We'll see with the new tacoma, but the argument has always been in my mind, why spend the same, get the same gas mileage for inferior performance in a smaller package? You gotta really like tacomas for that to come out as the better choice. I think being able to fit on tighter trails would be about the only pro in that column.
Sounds like an impulse reaction to the beauty of the vehicle led you to put down the deposit that you walked back later after thinking it through. Which is totally fine.
I agree with about half of your criticisms and concerns, especially if Ineos has failed to deliver on a promise they made in regard to the repair manuals. I do live near a dealer but yeah there's always a risk of high-cost towing if you're on a trip and experience a catastrophic breakdown. Not too concerned about that though.
A few notes for you:
Grain of salt, but according to a quick google search the RTI is comparable to a Jeep Wrangler JKU (front swaybar connected). This is good, but hopefully the aftermarket will develop a disconnect for the Grenadier. In that case, I anticipate that some modifications may be necessary to take advantage of additional flex. But let's see; time will tell.
Personally, I'm still excited to check one out up close. Might pick one up for my next vehicle.
Yes, seeing one will get you very excited. They are beautiful and they are built to be durable. Working on commercial vehicles, it gave me the impression that it physically hold up.
But the engine issues/parts issues and the extremely high price scared me off. If no other issues existed, I probably still would have backed out for the price once they shared how expensive it would be.
If it were a vehicle like a Toyota with more backing, and a proven reputation then I wouldn’t be as concerned about the price.
Good thoughts. That is what we all should be doing if we are going to be spending a year's salary (or more) on a vehicle.
I cant believe how much I am about to spend on a Tacoma. Times are crazy, but for 90k I can have a new Toyota truck, with a camper on the back. Is it the right choice? Who knows, time will tell.
I’m not a big fan of screens either. My Raptors screen is pretty much shot. It doesn’t use the rear camera most of the time and the touch is completely off. I’ve reset it and that doesn’t work. To replace it is more than I’d like to pay.
Thought about trading for a Gladiator but when I tested one of those brand new the screen was already glitching.
Gladiators are pretty cool trucks anyway!
Honestly had most of the same concerns.
The grenadier is a great vehicle. That thing has pretty off-road charms. Only thing, it's Abit pricy
It's a personal decision. Shame that folks would get upset about that. Your reasons are sound. It's a beautiful truck. Expensive too. The concerns you have are very valid. Appreciate you being so transparent.
I don't think people are upset by his decision, and he does make a few good points. However, to frame it as negatively in some instances, based on what has been read, rather than first hand experience is a bit off in my view. This channel has quite a following and influence and although he states in the beginning that it's his personal opinion...most people don't hear that. Many are sheep who don't seem to have one original thought in their head....it seems!
You're absolutely right.
The "bmw isnt going to be a reliable engine" idea might be outdated. Consumer Reports ranked them as thee #1 most reliable brand for 2024
Regardless of whether one happens to be a Jeep fan or not, I think it's fair to say that the Chrysler/Jeep engineers did an awesome job of the interior dash design on the 2024 JL...It's a wonderful ergonomic blend of analog and tech in a great presentation!
I've got an order for a Grenadier, and based on your criteria, I agree with your concerns. I overland more and am sort of looking for something unique, so I'm staying with my decision. I think your assessment of the risk is on point. It's a new car, designed in Britain and built in France; nothing can go wrong with that, right?
Haha yeah, of course it be the best vehicle you ever owned! I’m planning on putting a lot of money into the my next build, on top of the vehicle itself. So the risk associated for the limited space just doesn’t make sense. I hope you love yours, and I hope INEOS is wildly successful.
Completely agree with all of your points.
Buying on emotion is easy to do but is not always the best thing to do. Better to take your time instead of making an expensive mistake.
Grenadier is good, but it’s only INEOS Automotive’s first car, and does need to further improve and expand, I don’t think it’s a flop by any means like most companies first products… their going to have some issues. I think INEOS should do and this is not just coming from me is to launch a more stripped out version/edition without things like Recaro seats, electric windows and glossy finishes, and instead a plan black or grey interior and only the bare basics and plastic bumpers to add a more budget friendly Grenadier for wider range of buyers from overlanders, fleet buyers, military, mining companies, government and NGOs as well as those just interested in tough 4x4s without spending heaps on the thing, another thing would be investing in their own drivetrains and having a single rear exhaust outlet so they can come with a larger fuel tank and of cause keeping reliability and robustness in mind. That will actually fill the gap the old JLR Defender left and complete with the Toyota 70s. Otherwise you’re stuck with a Merc G Wagon competitor more or less.
Almost all valid points. Owners of the Grenadier accept all of those criticisms and could add some more, but choose a unique, rare, and somewhat exclusive vehicle anyway. You do Toyota, great. It's just what you need.
Unique and rare is excellent for those that can afford to pay the extra for it.
I can afford the truck, I just can’t afford the risks associated with it.
I'm confused when you say the vehicle provides a small space. The thing is massive, and you mentioned that the Taco will give you more space, which does not make sence. The Taco has a cramped rear seat area, and that doesn't change if you get the 6 foot bed on the trail hunter. Funally, rapairing a hybrid (wich is the only thing you'll get on the trailhunter Taco) is not easy work and they battery is under the rear seats too.... it sounds more like a "the price is too high" situation and your just telling us random reasons that don't add up.
The outside is massive, the interior is not. That is a shared opinion among many. You think it will be massive on the inside until you climb in one. And yes, the Tacoma has more usable space by far. Its a truck. It has a 5x5 foot bed with only the wheel wells as intrusions. That is a LOT more space to work with, plus it has the back seats. I am baffled on how you think the bed of the truck and the cargo area of the Grenadier are anywhere close to eachother in size. Even INEOS is launching the Quartermaster for this very reason.
Yes, the starting battery and hybrid battery is under the rear seats of the hyrbid Tacomas, but the bulk of the electronics are not. But it still isn't the same thing. I am not building a living space on top of it in the Tacoma. It has an entire separate rear space.
The Tacoma project is going to cost me more than the Grenadier with the roof conversion, but quite a bit. Dumping that kind of money into something that the OEM hasnt even supplied DIY repair info for a year after launch is concerning. I am spending a lot of money on a vehicle, but I can't afford to throw away money on a vehicle. Sorry you dont like my opinion on the Grenadier.
The B58 is an inline 6, not a V6. Probably a distinction without a difference to most people, but in the interest of accuracy. I have an LC100, and it's not a rare vehicle. But getting certain parts for it can be challenging, I can't imagine how difficult parts for this Ineos would be, especially if pulls out of the US.
Thank you for the correction, you are absolutely right.
USA is Ineos biggest market
@@PeterFearon-g8q so was Pontiac...
I think the cost will be the issue with this thing. It’s a very cool and seemingly durable vehicle, but you can get a 4Runner for half the price and it’s just as capable and in some ways more utilitarian.
If that did happen with hard to get parts, transplant a Cummins 4bt in it if that problem arises.
Yeah but that’s an 85k truck that you gotta modify, which wouldn’t be cheap either. Not sure it would be worth the hassle. Plenty of people have been very happy with their Grenadiers so far. I haven’t heard of many other issues.
I saw my first Grenadier just two days ago and talk with the owner. After watching your video I now understand why the owner did not seem super enthused. He actually told me he wishes now he had just bought a Tacoma.
I myself drive a 2021 Tacoma with a 6’ bed and a pop-up GoFast topper that I can stand up in. The only thing I don’t like about my set up is having to get out of the back and in the cab in case of an fast bug-out. But no one rig can provide everything.
Unfortunately I agree with everything you said here. The worst customer service I’ve ever seen. That’s coming from a customer who followed the development for six years and did everything I could to order a vehicle. Way too much technology and Nannies in a vehicle designed for the opposite. Complete failure of mission. Two billion dollars wasted
I bet you don’t own one , mines been perfect after 9 months .
All valid points. Lack of a dealer network and potential costs as you said could be big issues. As owner of an old GX470 that I have lifted for off roading it is so true Toyota vehicles are very reliable. As mechanics say, when a german vehicle (engine in this case) gets to 100k miles just leave it on the side of the road with the keys in it. That said, I visited the dealer in Colo Springs a month ago and just about every one on the lot was sold. They said a six month wait once you order so there are more than a few people who have the $$ to buy them. I was impressed with the overall vehicle and quality for a new vehicle was impressive. It is an old school truck with a solid front axle for people who appreciate it and for that i think it is cool. When just about every SUV and 4x4 looks the same there is nothing like it on the road. Time will tell about BMW engine, etc.
Will said if people don't understand your reasons for not going ahead with your purchase will what can we say . Personally I think its 'a very wise move the first of anything is always suspect.
My Toyota will be a first as well for the new generation, but I have dealerships pretty much everywhere that can correct any issues.
I canceled my order after learning Ineos is not and has no plans to produce a technical service manual. Can you imagine purchasing a vehicle to take out into the bush and the manufacture wanting you to phone service 300 miles away if anything breaks? Ridiculous!
They don’t plan to now? I had not yet heard that!
I could be wrong because I haven’t been keeping up with this vehicle much but isn’t this supposed to be a barebones off-roader? Everything you need and nothing you don’t? If that’s the case, 90k seems crazy to me.
Guy, I bought it and it is simply perfect! Good luck with your choice.
No such thing as a perfect vehicle, but I am happy so many people love them. This video, as stated, is just my personal reasons for not buying it.
You can see how US government regulations are limiting our options needlessly. You bring up valid concerns. Until critical mass is reached in production there will be a concern. I hope they are successful. We need more competition in this space. Good luck with the Toyota.
Good thoughts. When I saw one in person, the exterior of this was wider than I expected. But the interior was narrower.
Yeah it’s not that big on the inside, I wish it was. The day I posted this video the Quartermaster got released for reservations, but they start at 95k for one with the off road goodies.
Nice to see all the ins and outs of a like minded person making decisions on vehicles to purchase for this kind of activity. What do you think about the rumors of the v6 being put in the tacoma in 2025?
That was an April Fools joke that made its rounds. It won’t be happening unfortunately. We can all dream, that thing would be a monster!
Good video and great points
BMW can service the B58. I've had many BMW's, and it's a solid engine. Walnut blasting at 40K, and proper maintenance. All good. Not sure of the hate for a BMW powerplant. Very strange. Is it a Toyota engine? No. Perhaps that's the root of your hesitation.
Not even Toyota engines are Toyota engines any longer - everyone is talking about them like they’re still offering the naturally aspirated 6 - that’s done. Over. Welcome to hybrid 4. That’s your new reality from Toyota. SUCH a bummer.
Part of it. It’s a combination of things.
As stated in the video: Some are my personal reasons and the video was directed towards people who didn’t know why I would cancel it, and were disappointed to hear about it. (I had gained quite a few subscribers from previous videos on the INEOS.
In a nutshell: I am spending (a lot) of money to build a new vehicle in this channel. The pricing ended up way over where we thought/ was hinted it was going to be.
Taking a risk with a new manufacturer on a new model from a new factory for very little inside space for myself and the wife, or buying a vehicle for around 20k less than I can put a camper on. It’s a risky buy for many of my viewers, so I shared it as such.
Its a really nice looking machine
My experience with the new Toyo engines is amazing power, terrible efficiency. Some people care about that, but I didn't really.
4200#’s? When’s the last time you weighed your FJ?
Talking stock number. INEOS is 6k+ before even adding anything
@@IndependenceOverland ahhh 👍
Yeah I am well aware MY Fj is Obese 😂@@brettferguson6954
@@IndependenceOverland That’s okay…my 80 series is 7k
I think it was good idea you did not go this way, I could see how you needed a larger overland solution, by the way Toyota Tacoma overview was a good video. PS all the new Vehicles are expensive now Bronco, GX550, Land Cruiser 250. Dealer markups push all them into Grenadier money or more. This is what killed it for me on all three.
Overloading is the way
Thanks, fixed, was a bit tired yesterday, Pup had me up 10 times the night before, and had long visit to the Vet, he doing better now. @@IndependenceOverland
Oh lol honestly I thought you were taking a stab at me. Thanks for not doing so! @@GregoryStoner
Not my style. @@IndependenceOverland Now it going to be fun to see what Toyota does with the 2025 4runner in few days
I'll just keep putting maintenance & upgrade monies into my '95 LR Disco that I've owned since 2001, which is better off-road equipped/modified over the past 23 years than the top of the line Grenadier (not gonna lie, would be nice to have a turbo straight six in my Disco though) rather than paying an overpriced monthly Grenadier payment. I got to attend an early VIP showing of the Grenadier in Las Vegas, which I drove my lifted Disco to - After sitting in the Grenadier and noticing its driver visibility wasn't as good as my Disco's, I invited the North American GM to sit in my driver's seat and I asked him why their new 4x4 had less visibility than my 30 year old one? (An a-hole move I know, but it was a valid question) My wheel base is also shorter, and my Disco weighs 1500 pounds less... and I can also work on it myself. I also don't feel so bad denting, scratching and dinging my '95 D1 compared to an $80,000+ vehicle, that I'd need to drop another $20,000 into to get it to where my Disco already is.
There is definitely something to having an old truck you don't mind getting dented up a fair bit! Its been a long time since I avoided dents and scratches while off road.
Point blank period i think this will be a slow start but will succeed and i mean the first owners are the guinea pigs just like the new toyota and its new engine. Its not gonna be for everyone and thats ok. U make the best decision for you bro. Convenience and lack of headache is a major deciding factor when you spend 90k. Thats a freaking home in some areas and it loses major value as soon as you leave the lot so it has to work for you
I cancelled because of how it reportedly steers on-road (like crap). If IFS is good enough for G-class, it would have been good enough for Grenadier. IFS would make this vehicle appeal to so many more people who rely on it for a daily driver. Again, both G and new Defender do fine off-road, and they both have IFS.
I do think a solid axle is great for a company building what is basically intended on being an off roader. Front IFS is a much more comfortable drive though. But the Grenadier isnt geared towards daily driving, its geared towards the illusion that your gonna ship it to Namibia and live out of it for a month. Which would be amazing to actually do, of course.
Practically all the comments you make are followed by “but”, which pretty much negates whatever you said prior. I’m also not sure what you mean when you talk about the LR110…I’m assuming the older Defender, because the ND doesn’t have that much more room either and obviously a complete departure from a box on frame, solid axle vehicle.
Regardless of any extra living space for your needs, the IG is more improved than any old LR110 in pretty much every other spec. Try taking a “16hr “ trip in an old 110 and tell me how you feel after. That right side hump in the IG will seem like a minor inconvenience compared to the experience in a 110.
I agree with your statements about the service manuals, dealer network, future parts availability “if” IG fails, and CS (although my CS experience was excellent, I concede that there are a disturbing amount of bad examples by others). IMHO, with the exception of the service manual, these are the risks that a customer takes with a new brand, similar to those that supported Tesla when their future was unknown.
Talking like a trooper. Cheers
Dealer support and manual is paramount.
When these were announced and shown I said they will likely fail because of the high cost and lack of dealership service and parts. It's a really nice vehicle but it won't sell in high volume, and depreciation will be really bad.
Get your self a Land Cruiser 200 and you will never look back because it is perfection
200 Perfection? Not really. As close as you can get to perfection? Possibly. I have two 200 series Landcruisers. A 2013 and a 2021. The 2013 has had the timing chain cover gasket replaced no small job, no small cost and recently the auto folding mechanism on the driver side mirror failed. Cost to replace the mirror $2,200 dollars more than the timing Cover gasket. Each have long range fuel tanks because without them the trucks are literally useless, at least in Idaho and Montana and Wyoming. I also have just got a Grenadier and so far I’m totally jazzed. Range and reliability are the only question marks.
v8 gas hog
On another note. It would be cool if you could introduce yourself to this owner of the black INEOS. that way you could see if he could give you any updates of things, good and bad, that he experiences with his. Maybe even give you an opportunity to do a walk around of his vehicle and the options he chose.
I'm a buyer on this thing but being a 60+ year old I know to NEVER buy the 1st year of ANY vehicle. Also, PARTS ! there's a wait for everything... give it a minute... wait a year or 2 then pounce :)
Sounds like you’re poor and salty.
Ineos has an additional 10,000 units on order in the last 6 weeks. U.S. will be the largest market.
My Toyota will be just as expensive for me this year with everything I’m doing to it. Sorry your offended by my opinion 🤷🏼♂️
I will buy it if it proves to be dependable.
I agree with you I want my Overland vehicle to be reliable and have auto parts stores everywhere for my Toyota 4Runner my next purchase will probably be a pickup truck with Alu-Cab canopy camper either a Tundra or f150 v8 coyote can’t decide have a ikamper mini on the 4Runner I’m just getting a older good choice on your trail hunter taco 🤙🏾
I love mine, it's amazing.
I think this cat worked for Land rover or Jeep?
No sir, I don’t work for any major manufacturer. I’m a fleet mechanic for a company.
Before deciding against this purchase, my deposit was refunded, sans any explanation as to the reason for it's return...INEOS was relatively quick to respond to my inquiries regarding my 'Reservation Number" but "my" dealer in Toronto has been incognito!...
Meanwhile, owing to the very poor Canadian dollar, the price up here, is significantly more than the price in the United States...In addition, anyone purchasing a vehicle which retails for more than $100K, must pay a "Luxury" tax...(If you want the Grenadier to have 'Lockers' etc., IMO, a necessity, , it's well above $100K in Canada), )
Apart from that, there are (currently) only two Canadian Grenadier dealers...One in Toronto and one in Vancouver, so for any repairs or warranty work, (according to INEOS), the vehicle must be brought to a certified dealer...So for me, it's either a 16 hour or a 5 day trek, to the nearest dealer!
A few days ago, I purchased a loaded Jeep JLU Rubicon...No doubt, the Grenadier is the superior vehicle, but is it $50K better??
Definitely some detractors! I am sure they will be working to get more networks in your area. The luxury tax however, that’s rough.
@@IndependenceOverland No doubt, but being a 'relatively' new and untested vehicle...(untested while in customer possession), any warranty work, including software/firmware updates, must be completed by a certified dealer...According to earlier PR info, repairs, etc., were all (potentially), supposed to have been completed by the customer him or herself, while "in the field"! (Sorry, I hadn't yet listened to your entire video, but you've obviously brought up this point as well...)
It's really amazing how much of this stuff you got wrong. Firstly there's no chicken tax in North America which includes Mexico and Canada. Secondly this is longer wider and taller than the old defender 110. So it has more space. Thirdly why is everybody whining about a list of parts that no other dealer supplies on any other vehicle on Earth? If they ever do it it will be a first. Fourthly - this is designed and engineered by Magna Steyr using their catalog of parts bin parts, which means most of the parts underneath are common with one of the forms of G-Wagon that this is basically designed on, including the windshield, the steering box, and the door handle mechanisms. Magna does not build the axles, Cararo does, but the differentials inside them are built by Eaton just like every other North American vehicle.
North America absolutely has a chicken tax for trucks, thats why the new Quartermaster is going to be 100k. Thats also why there are mostly Land Cruiser Troop Carriers imported in the US on a regular basis, but the picksup are far less common. There is a chicken tax even on the 25 year old trucks. SUVs dont have the chicken tax. Perhaps INEOS is just rolling that tax in on their side, and marking the truck up to make up for it. But you are incorrect on the US not having a chicken tax.
I could be wrong on the 110, but all the plastics on the interior of the IG still make it not as suitable for an interior buildout. The old box the 110 had was better for that kind of thing. I will say though, the 110 certainly LOOKS bigger. But if I am wrong, I'm wrong. Still doesn't work for me either way.
Everyone is whining about parts because parts are pretty important with a vehicle. Crazy, I know.
That's good on the diffs. Very cool.
@@IndependenceOverland no what I said is there is no chicken tax "IN" North America... Chicken tax is applied only outside North America. Canada - US - Mexico all have free trade. This is why Toyota can build Tacoma's in Mexico with no chicken tax.
Ineos is considering a US factory for Quartermaster.
The only bespoke parts are the fenders and doors etc. Engine, transmission, steering box etc all have uses in other trucks or vans. Early adopters have to be acceptable to some inconvenience. Lamborghini doesn't tell you that the side marker light is off a Ford.
This truck is basically a reskinned G-wagon with an X5 drivetrain and a special transfer case.
The BMW engine was the killing point for me. I know too many people BMW cars that have problems. I don’t want that in the truck.
The thing is not designed to be dealer maintained. Price of everything has gone batshite crazy.
Yeah, and I maintain a fleet of vehicles for a living so that part is not an issue. The issue is that it’s designed to be used maintained and repaired, yet much of that information has yet to see the light of day. This is going on a year now since launch for many of the markets.
I'll agree with the lack of repair manuals; that isn't right. I will say as far as customer service is concerned, I had a question, and I made a simple phone call and spoke to a human within 5 minutes. So, they are accessible.
Ditto - I contacted them 3 times via chat and voice - and it wasn’t AI chat. Real humans - in the UK. Super fast and responsive, and they contacted me multiple times to follow up and let me know how things were progressing.
I’m glad there are some good reports out there on this, because it wasn’t my experience and they have a reputation at this point for not supplying information. Hopefully it’s getting better.
@@IndependenceOverlandI would basically say this - and I think this is your point. If you have the money and are willing to take a little risk and go through the growing pains, great truck, go for it. If you’re going to go wild on modification(like chopping the top), and want fully baked supply chain and service network, this is probably not a good fit. For those of us willing to spend the cash, spend the time, work through the kinks - it’s a lot of fun. Everyone has a different budget and risk tolerance.
I will hire you to edit my next video script haha. Nailed it @@ElderStatesman-pi3lc
@@IndependenceOverlandyour video was fine - this truck really brings out the armchair quarterbacking in everyone. I think your points were fair - I love mine and plan to keep it for many years, just tinkering over the years to personalize it. If I was planning on a major tear-up mod right away, or was too freaked out over parts stock, I would probably be looking for a LC 200 rebuild and just call it a day.
ineos grenadiers, nice car !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🚙🚙🚙🚙🚙🚙👍👍👍👍👍👍!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maintenance and endless money pit
Interesting , I would appear that the Ineos owners reply’s all seem very positive towards the car. Maybe you should have mentioned that the Australian guy you referred to spend half his trip winching and pulling a 79s series Toyota out the mud 😂😂😂
The grenadier is in essence a W463 G wagon replacement with a Better bmw engine in it !
I know I sold my rusting 2018 g wagon for this quality truck
When red flags slapping your face left and right, you need to slap back
Thank good Toyota finally ditched the absymally under torqued 6 cylinder. Bought one in 2018 and had to sell it after a trip to Florida towing a moderate trailer. The shift, shift. Shift, shift, shift, shifty shift shift shift shift.
No thanks.
Looks like they got smart put in a turbo 4. My 08 cobalt ss shouldnt make 100ft lbs more torque then my truck. It was embarassing.
Its still weak sauce at 317ft/lbs but its better. Especially since the turbos will make good torque under load.