@@amcluesent you are actually allowed to turn the annoying crap off. It does have to come on after every restart so a no nonsense button like this is very desirable.
@@trick700 For me it's not about the costs, i can't afford a new car anyway. But al the safety beeps are so annoying and distracting it's actually a lot less safe.
Oh dear Harry, I can’t help but think it’s built for farmers like yourself and Clarkson ( no offence) but for us farmers who haven’t done as well as you guys and just farm! We had land rovers as they were basic and good value for the money. I thought ineos was building good value for money off-roader and the advertising says it all the pictures of them with the family on an adventure. Us basic Land Rover farmers are forgotten about, sorry about the rant but I really wanted something so I could chop my old 90 in but I see nothing to replace it that I can afford/ great channel though and keep the vids coming. Stuart.
Yes the pricing is a fright alright, I've had several Landrovers from S1, S2, S2a, S3, Defender 90, now my good car is an SVR Rangie, but my work wagon will stay a Jeep Gladiator I'm afraid, the Quartermaster would've been ideal too. Must say this reviewer doesn't have much of a clue about off roading or how the vehicles work,
@@burkezillar hi burkezillar um the new Land Cruisers are expensive as well and the last time I see one of those they didn’t look as rugged as the older ones.
I live not too far from Harry and have seen a few of these, a couple in my village, operating in their natural environment dropping the kids at school and visiting Waitrose. One is also particularly effective at using 2 parking spaces outside the village post office shop, lording it over the minions.
That’s hilariously funny but at the same time I love it because if only farmers and off road enthusiasts bought it none of us would be able to buy one because just like the Defender it wouldn’t be profitable to build. So three cheers for moms in Grenadiers! But you should only ever take one parking spot.
"operator error"...... And that right there Harry, is why I watch your vids. Open and honest letting us know what you find, SMASHING. As always much appreciate the video cheers.
It didn't stop him from rubbishing it the first time round. In all honesty, people all over the world were embarrassed for how little he knew about four wheel drive CDL/locker actuation.
If I remember the main distinction he drew agains the Defender was that the LR has a computer that does it all for you. Not everyone wants to have to memorise what you can do in which order. His business is growing stuff, not being an off road expert. Not knocking anyone, if you like the manual controls, great.
I have something very similar except that mine was built in Solihull in 1984. It has the simplicity, peeling paint and battered panels that Harry wants!
I live in south west France. We are not a wine growing area but a fruit growing area. Our local fruit farmer has bought an Ineos Grenadier and it's a real pleasure to see him out and about. It's always covered in shite and he seems to use in all the time. When I get the chance I will ask him what he thinks of it.
I am a hill farmer. Followed the Grenadier from the start and got one this time last year. After years of Land Rovers and eventually getting fed up of them I am glad Jim and his team has done what Land Rover should have done years ago. Best vehicle I have ever had for what I do. I am glad Harry has got it now as I think his first review was a bit uneducated!
Land Rover definitely dropped the ball as the new Defender is basically an SUV with limited off road capability, what we once called `Chelsea Tractors' that might see a muddy field at an equestrian event.
Yet the New Defender did everything Harry asked of it on the farm without having to have special meetings with the designers. And for what it couldn't do you'd already be in your tractor.
Don’t think it was uneducated. He tested it as a road car - as a road car it’s not very good. I don’t think Land Rover should have done this years ago - you buy this because you want an old school feel.
Being a JLR customer for the last 20yrs and being constantly disappointed and always replaced my LR when the new vehicle warranty expired @ 3yrs (which would be 3 new Landrovers every 9yrs) i decided to jump in and order one of the 1st Diesel Grenadiers which was delivered in April 2023 It was the best decision I’ve ever made, and over a 9 yr period I will only have to replace the Grenadier with another Grenadier every 5yrs because it comes with a factory 5yrs warranty (a reduction in the purchase cycle of one vehicle) It’s used for work and play, and it’s like driving around in a block of Granite. Massively over engineered, and I absolutely love the Grenadier and it’s never let me down The steering isn’t an issue after a few hours of the initial drive, the same as the foot rest on the RHD version If you have owned the old Defender and interested in the Grenadier, go test drive one for 2hrs and you will love it
@@stevezodiac575 No we were leaving the car park which I have to say had become a an absolute quagmire due to the rain -- the owner of the Landy was dead embarrassed though
From somebody who has used 79 series Landcruisers their whole life in Australia for timber work and general farming, the idea of calling something with that BMW shifter “rugged” is ‘challenging’. I don’t remember having to worry about sequences of button presses to make the Landcruiser work off-road.
I've had cruisers and those with part time 4 wheel drive often have free wheeling front hubs you have to get out and engage, then used the transfer case lever to slip into 4h, then through Tcase neutral to 4L and press button for front and rear lockers if optioned. Not really that much different?
Well yes.. but you can't get more mass-market than Isuzu. This is quite a lot more niche, with a price that's actually less than I thought it would be. It's kind of Caleb Cooper's pick-up versus Jeremy Clarkson's. I also think the Grenadier is completely uncompromised for off-roading. Isuzu trucks still need to be comfortable on the road.
Cheers Harry. I've put about 20k on my 2 seater utility. Built tough and would pull a house down. Changed the steering damper so the steering wheel now returns to centre. Diesel engine with towing, off road and normal road driving still thirsty at 20.8mpg average over 20k miles.
Something about the money for charity rubs me the wrong way. It seems to me that all the money for that upgrade should go directly to charity - otherwise it's just too show-offy. 150 euros is simply too little. What you're saying is "I paid 1000 euros to keep 850 of it away from charity", because why wouldn't you just go for a standard frame and donate the 1000 directly? Or give 990 and spend 10 on a red spraycan?
What a great surprise! A bonus from Harry 👍 I have to say, price aside, the Grenadier Quartermaster looks very much at home around the farm. Certainly from the way it looks to have been built, it would appear to be capable of being the sort of vehicle which will still be working away in 20-30yrs time just like the original Defender. I think it just comes down to if you are prepared to make such a large investment in anticipation of getting 30+yrs use out of it, by which time the cost equation starts to look reasonable. A good review from Harry as ever, putting it properly to use. 👍
An enormous amount of thought has gone into this vehicle. It clearly takes a minimum of two Harry’s Garage/Farm videos to fully appreciate it. So, not your average vehicle, but certainly built to purpose. 👏
I’m surprised they didn’t tell you all that diff lock stuff when they gave you the first car. Kind of critical to not have user error:) Loving your content as ever
It's a bad design. Spend some time in an American pickup truck. You will realize that you very rarely need low range, but you use that locked rear diff all the time. Sometimes you don't even need to be in four-wheel drive to take advantage of that extra traction at the rear.
@@otm646, this is full time 4x4, the pickup trucks you are talking about are part time. Not comparable at all. Everybody who has ever driven a proper 4x4 offroad and know a tiny bit of what this means, knows that as soon as you get off the road, you either engage the centre diff lock (in full time) or the front axle (in part time). We are not talking about axle locks or low range even. Because if you don’t do that, you get just 1 wheel drive. And that’s a very very well known fact in the 4x4 field. That previous test did not speak well for Harry, unfortunately. It was just not professional enough and on par with his usual attitude and overall car knowledge.
@@mioiox Don't blame Harry he's used to driving a Land Rover products where you don't have all that faff pushing buttons and levers. You just point it at the hill and it goes up!!
@@mioiox You're really not understanding here. This is not a full time four wheel drive versus part time four-wheel drive discussion. You should also know that all of the newer pickup trucks automatically engage the transfer case at speed. Most the time when you're in a field like this you want the additional traction of both rear wheels rotating at the same speed. You don't honestly need to have the front axle engaged most the time. In this scenario he has to shift into low range to engage the rear axle lock. That's why it's a bad design. I grew up on a farm, I've driven through muddy fields my entire life, you don't want low range, high range with a locked rear you're lower in the power band and it gives you much better feel if there's any slip that's starting.
I'm no farmer but I really like it.👍 It's 1990's tech, with a few modern extras, and identical in many ways to my '97 Land Cruiser, from the heavy duty ladder chassis, coil springs, good old manual gear levers, mechanical diff locks, right down to the 6 wheel studs/nuts. The UL weight is even the same at 2700+kg. If you need, or even just like this kind of vehicle you can forgive the compromised on road manners and if you can't, then buy a Discovery or a Range Rover. As Harry mentions at the end, many will sell to owners who will rarely, if ever, venture off road but just love the the rugged good looks and relative simplicity.👍
@@hughmarcus1 Of course there is. It's unavoidable and necessary to meet the ever tightening emission laws. My LC is mechanical injection, no fancy electronics, CAT or DPF and no Adblue tank. I've no idea what Euro spec it is but it certainly isn't Euro 6😂. Things move on and wether we like it or not it's called progress. Give me mechanical levers and diff locks any day over all this electronic "driver aid" crap. The brain in my car is ME. 😂
@@hughmarcus1That may be but there is a significant fewer CPU’s than any other car built today and done so embracing the engineering philosophy of graceful degradation so if something fails it’s far less likely to prevent vehicle operations.
@@spdcrzy Lots of M5 owners might disagree. The point is that BMW don't produce heavy or commercial vehicles. Land Rover's experience with BMW 6 pots will tell you they're not the right engine for a heavy 4x4, especially if that 4x4 is doing any serious work. Ineos tout the Grenadier as being a tough workhorse, my view from the start, is that this engine could well prove it's undoing
I'm so impressed that they managed to "Just start making them" from scratch. Seems to me that they will evolve slowly, and get better with time. This sort of car, don't need a second generation really, just gradual improvements.
That was always Landrover's problem, for decades no two were the same. I tested a new 1986 LWB Stage iV and it had a wind up window for the driver but sliding windows for the passenger. as an example
The Grenadier won its class in the 2024 Alcan 5000 Rally, there are plans for the Ineos Grenadier to be fielded in the 2025 World Rally-Raid Championship, which includes rallies like Dakar
The nature of the Alcan Rally, being a speed/distance regularity event means it hardly mattered what vehicle you drove. The event is won by the driver/Co driver and their skill. Look at the other vehicles taking part and finishing.
The return to center on a tight turn is a steering geometry issue. The vehicle has been set up with 0 degrees caster angle to give better response off-road and to minimise the already limited turning radius. This is great for low speed bush tracks but may be a potential safety hazard on the black top. Imagine you’re turning onto an intersection and misjudge the time and distance of on/incoming traffic and you need to step on the accelerator to clear safely. Without a caster assisted recenter you could easily oversteer and end up crossing into the oncoming lane (and potentially overcorrect back). It will also require constant corrections driving in a straight line. This is probably overcome with time and experience behind the wheel but the best solution would be to build 2-3 degrees into the factory caster angle.
0 degrees is incorrect and should be edited. You literally do not know what you are talking about. I find not over inflating tires helps with tracking as well.
@@BryanPike I’ve seen physical caster measurements from two separate Trialmasters both with 0 degrees from the factory. A quick google search will show this is not unique. The owners manuals were not available at the time and assumed that was an intentional factory setting rather than a quality assurance issue from the factory. Adjusting the caster cam bolt to its maximum achieves just over 2.2 degrees. It could do with 1 more degree + but that would require a modification and would further reduce the turning radius. Who drives with over inflated tires? That’s like saying my engine runs better with the correct fuel. Don’t let your sunk cost bias interfere with objective reasoning.
@@SingaporeSling1 The dealer service department has a QA Document for receiving and checking units for sale. The manual says 2° with a max of 2°30' just like fluids etc alignment is supposed to be checked. Chaining these heavy vehicles down in shipment evidently has pulled some units out of spec. I have no issue on the first thousand miles on my Grenadier that I took delivery of this month. The door plate shows tire pressure of 42 front and 49 back PSI. The steering is much better running 38psi which I am running on KO2s. So no, your quip above is wrong, a Grenadier is NOT set up with 0° caster, if received that way, it is out of spec. Luckily mine is and loving every mile of it. The return to center is primarily impacted by a stiff stock steering stabilizer, which some guys have swapped out for an adjustable Fox unit. I think they may have adjusted this a bit in production as time has gone by. i have not issue, but like when I drove a Hummer, gunning the gas out of a corner it does not try to unwind itself like rack and pinion, making you feed the wheel proactively a bit.
that what almost all of the world does. 165 countries are right hand side and only 75 are lefthand side. that has nothing to do with the usa. in fact rest of europe drives on the right ....
I watch so many UK car & motorcycle videos that it rarely phases me, the only time I get shocked is when someone turns right & I worry that a car is coming up behind them & will smash the shit out of em. Then I chastise myself for being silly. This tends to happen more often with motorcycle videos.
@@marekhild7192 75 to 165 is actually quite a high number for RHD. Not to mention that about 1/3 of world's population lives in RHD countries (UK, Ireland, Japan, Australia, NZ, entire Indian Subcontinent, Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, large part of Africa etc.).
What got me first time driving right hand in Barbados was the stick shift pattern. I always imagined it would be reversed... nope. That took a little getting used to. That and coming off round abouts.😊
As a former user of LR and Japanese 4x4’s dead a field engineer, this looks very promising. As you say at the end of the video, I would be interested to know more about how it responds in various fail states: ie, if that exposed ABS cable on the front axle (5:20) gets snagged, does it disable some systems and keep going, or throw a meltdown? I think this, and the ease of tracing electrical faults, will determine if they make it past the ten year mark.
I think you summarise this perfectly. It fits a very niche gap in the market. There will be a lot of individuals that will say yeah but what about this and that, with no interest in using the vehicle in the way it’s been designed. 90% of the new defenders will see nothing more than wet grass and will spend ridiculous amounts of time being repaired. They have the badge and the kerb appeal though. It will take a lot more effort to sell a grenadier because most will lack the ability to grasp its true ISP.
@@luccadukka In the US I will be curious how well they sell. There are a lot of $90,000 Jeeps on the road. This is a step up, it's not a Chrysler product and it's a much more classic look which will pull in buyers.
The chassis and the body will outlive the electronics in this car many times. Toyota Hilux and Land Cruiser have both decades of generations and are both trusted.
Plenty of Toyota’s break down mate. I have owned a 3, one 2.8 Diesel Hilux spun a big end bearing at 100 000 km and was serviced every 5000 km. Not to mention others having injector, DPF and clutch failures ect.
It’s not a car, it’s a machine, a tool. So great to see someone build something to a vision and standard without compromise. Surely a first choice for anyone engaged in serious off-road adventuring. I know what I’d want to use out in the backwoods, Alaska or the deserts.
I want one! Good looking farmer’s vehicle, much more practical than a new Defender that everybody that used to have a Discovery 4, now drives. ……….I’d rather have the Discovery 4, or even a 3. But what I really want is that exact Grenadier! I’ll put up with the Chassis, Springs and steering and I like my left foot to be supported
Nearly all the farmers I watch, and I watch a lot, have Range Rovers. When they get to a certain size, they’re more farm managers than workers, so don’t need the ruggedness. Most of the smaller farmers that don’t have the same money, just buy pickups.
@@fanfeck2844 I’m a Farm manager and I do have a Range Rover. …………15 years old RR Sport 3 litre. If it were a Disco 4, it’d be worth twice as much! But my works vehicle is a 19 years old 2.7 Discover 3 and I like it more than the RRS. However, I still hanker after a Grenadier!
A licence weight restriction that only applies to ICE vehicles while Cat B licence holders wanting to drive EVs exceeding 3,500Kg get a free pass up to 4,250Kg instead of having to acquire a C or C1 licence. Amazing how they get the rules changed when it suits an agenda.
Was at the Yorkshire hill rally last weekend and the stewards and safety team were using Grenadiers and the pickup. Stunning extremely capable vehicles.
Owned a 2012 RR Autobiography SC… even added a LR-RR extended warranty on top of the mfg standard and even when just the left rear air bag failed, the entire vehicle was essentially immobilized as the entire air suspension system was out and the vehicle was seemingly riding on the axles - the airbag failure occurred whilst my RR was sitting at the DFW airport valet parking garage for 2 wks as I was traveling on biz to the EU and UK and my wife and kids where in Maui - hence when I got back to DFW, I was essentially stranded and had to take an Uber home whilst arranging w/ my LR-RR store to flat-bed the vehicle to their store and to arrange a loaner vehicle - expecting that like with brakes, rotors and tires, if you’re replacing one side of axle, ya should replace the other side also, I inquired about doing the other side of the axle whilst it was up on the rack and in pieces - NOPE said LR-RR of NA. I even offered to pay for the additional part (like $2K) and they said nope…. I swore off LR-RR and after the repair was done under warranty, i immediately traded the RR for a 2016 MB GL63 AMG….lol, that vehicle was also a clusterfk… now drive 2022 Lexus LS600 and the living is smooth and easy…
@@Padoinky their dealer service in the US is really awful. Had a very good friend purchase an SVR right when they came out. It ate a fuel pump in the first 500 miles. They offered him a base loaner. Dealer ordered a fuel pump, tried to install it. It was the wrong part. The SVR part is different and apparently was completely unavailable. He ended up trading it in broken and got another Cayenne Turbo.
Harry, you nailed it. Great review and as Ive only sat in one I can't comment on the driving qualities. Everything you said I'd echo about the Ineos. I absolutely love my Grenadier Station Wagon. And yes, I do use it as designed, and I think it's brilliant. I don't say that only because I bought one, because if it wasn't a wonderful vehicle to drive I'd say so. Here in the US we have to pay a 25% tariff tax making them a bit more rare. If we didn't have the import tax I'd probably trade for the Quartermaster. Im looking forward to driving it.
Ye he's definitely interesting he was a big backer of Brexit and promised to build those 4x4 in Wales if Brexit happened, Brexit happened and like a true British patriot he built his factory in France 😂
@@John316OBrian-cm4fj And has lived in Monaco for years, doesn't pay much tax (nom domicile status, obs) and even though the vehicle is assembled in France, it is badged to show it's British/German heritage/parts, but in doing so, slaps its French workforce in the face, by ignoring where it's put together...
@@John316OBrian-cm4fj Billionaires like "J.R." and their multinational corps. saw Brexit as a means to make more money more easily, by directly influencing the U.K.'s politicians, laws and regulations without having to worry about the E.U. getting in their way.
I saw this car parked at the Goodwood Revival in Park City on Friday….it certainly suited the monsoon conditions! I think it has many merits and had following but I don’t have a use for such a commercial based vehicle….many will but the price is the problem. At least the build quality looked to have improved from dreadful to not bad! I still think the New Defender is a better solution for general use though. 🤔🤔🙂🙂🙂
14:25 - The teeny-weeny 'toot' horn is the thing that caught my attention. I'm not a horse rider, but I am a (reluctant, not militant) cyclist and, even though my crummy bicycle has mirrors, it's still nice to know when there's a car approaching. Not many drivers bother to warn cyclists of their presence; those that do, often do so AGGRESSIVELY, with much furious revving of engines and blaring of horns. It doesn't help concentration, especially if you're already riding in the gutter (as I do). Even a sensitive driver giving a polite 'bip bip' on a regular horn can sound unnecessarily angry, so the Grenadier's mini muted one is definitely something I'd like to see fitted as standard on more vehicles - EVs in particular. After all, it's not another toy - it's a practical, genuinely useful feature. As for the rest of the Grenadier... Well, it's a car. Not my cuppa, but I suppose someone, somewhere, will love it.
Yes ! I can’t understand why it’s so rarely found. One of my motorcycles is electric and extremely quiet, I so wish I had a way to make pedestrians more aware of me without behaving to use the horn.
You will be pleased to know that the first time I washed my Grenadier was 28,000K. My first dint was on the first day of ownership when a lady in an AUDI gave me a love tap. There was minimal damage. I had a second tap from a Toyota, another crease, but the Grenadier's paint stayed intact! Both times, these people backed into me, and mine is Scottish white!! I purchased white for a reason!!!
I wouldnt bother with one. Its obviously a copy of an old brand vehicle but things have moved on in life and the LR defender looks far better. The Gren is just not worth the money. Yes its very off road, but it strikes the wrong on road/off road balance. And to blame user error just means that the car is not easy to use... and thats wrong
Great video as ever, and a great car for what it's designed to do. Maybe the niggles will be sorted out in the Series 2. I also hope you get to test the new LandCruiser, as I understand that it's also built on a ladder chassis.
Living in a country town in Central Queensland, Australia, starting to see quite a few of these getting around with the farmers out here. Definitely not as popular as the 79 series Landcruisers, but they are making their presence known. From what I’ve heard they are quite capable off road, and on the many dirt roads here.
Like the look of that upcoming 2-seat commercial version. Wasn't aware that was on the cards. Talking about being niche, I wonder if they'll ever be daring enough to offer a single cab pickup version to rival Landcruiser's offerings. Does the off-road mode need engaging every time you start it up or will it stay on through engine starts until you go 44?
Traditionalists need not worry though. To get the full "Classic Defender" experience just move the seat as far forward as it will go and wear size 20 wellies...
It's nice that you finally get it, Harry ! You should watch some of Ronny Dhal's videos if your wondering on the Grenadier's off road capabilities and toughness.
Great review. I really like the V8 and the jacked up red pickup versions. The commerical ones appeal to me more than domestic. Hopefully and short wheelbase will be available one day in van and pickup versions.
What I don’t understand is that Land Rover “HAD” to stop manufacturing the Defender, something related to crash protection for pedestrians (I only know what was said in the media at the time). So how have INEOUS managed to make an almost identical shaped vehicle that does meet the requirements ? Why was Land Rover unable to ? Did JLR just use it as an excuse to stop making the longest running production car & get out of the farm vehicle market ?
Have you not noticed the hideous front bumper extension on the Grenadier? The fact is simple, there are not enough sales in this segment to make any money. Ineos are never ever going to even breakeven with the Grenadier (over $1.5Billion in costs, just 7,000 built (built, not sold..) to date) LR sold roughly 8,000 Defenders a year in the last decade before it was put out of production, they sold 110,000 new defenders in 2023 alone.... It's actually pretty clear, if JLR had continued with the old defender, they would have gone bust. It's honestly that simple The Ineous's automotive arm who make the Grenadier is only not yet gone bust because of the richness of it's owner. They do not have, nor will ever have imo, a valid business case for this segment that stands on its own two feet.
They very labour intensive to make, rubbish to drive, noisy, cramped, uneconomical, leaky, drafty, and we’re only selling about 1500-2000 worldwide, so no money in it
The design of this is early 21st century not the 1940s. It’s that simple. EuroNCap killed the old Defender, no air bags, pedestrian protection etc etc. most modern SUVs now have an airbag on the bonnet.
Well, you can have the ‘old’ Defender, but JLR say the price is £200k, yup you read that right: 200 grand… I’d like that big red Grenadier pick-up and plenty of change left over to fuel it.
Can only say that one of my friends who s got a restaurant and a part time farm absolutely loves the Grenadier (Diesel engine) and he had the powerful Diesel on the Hilux right before he got the Grenadier last year. The overhang to the front , general visibility, bad economy and the fact that the space that was quite limited compared to the vehicle size often upset him in the Hilux. He s extremely happy with the Grenadier and I sometimes think they should hire him as a sales rep coz he just talked one of his neighbours into getting one as well as he proudly told me. Edit: I m so not a fan of these 4x4 or even SUVs but I must say, he made me want one. The way it s built and how sturdy it feels is quite cool so if I wanted or needed sth like that, the Grenadier he has in his spec would pretty much be top of my list as well.
@@stewartjmurray In my market it s not that much cheaper actually, it s more like 20k and tbh I drove the Hilux with him numerous times and found it dreadful time after time and totally understood why he doesn t like it, fuel economy, usable space and visibility being the things that instantly shocked me and bothered him as the owner. Meanwhile, what instantly won me personally over was the build quality, room and actually good visibility and all those features my friend talked about that wouldn t matter much to me as a non 4x4 fan. He s happy with the Grenadier and I get why, for me personally the Hilux and its downfalls surprised me a lot given they re the no1 UN vehicle worldwide and I expected a lot more. How can it be so tiny inside being big even more so compared to the Grenadier, not powerful whilst drinking etc etc. I still give you the fact that parts bin and proven in "combat" are a thing but gee, the Grenadier is really nicely built and it made me think of the G Class prior to becoming an in-fashion thing.
@@nonamenameless5495 thats because they price hi-lux’s too high. In Aus I can get one for less than 30k sterling. At that price they make sense. They will also out last the ineos, as you say they are used globally for a reason. A hi-lux customer isn’t an ineos customer I don’t think there is much cross shopping going on. I can see people buying one to be different or individual, but a new Defender is a better all rounder, a Landcruise is better off road and more reliable and a Hi-Lux is 80% of the vehicle at half the price. However you pays your money you takes your choice, if he likes his purchase than good on him.
It’s good that they gave you a course in how to make use of the very fiddly, complicated and perhaps not fully thought-out systems in it so you can use it as intended. The question is why those systems are so fiddly and why you would need all of those functions and features in the first place? Why didn’t they make it simpler and more old-school like the suspension design? It just seems very poorly thought out.
Hmm... reminded me of the old-school shifting on the Series LRs, where you had to do all that shuffling with the yellow and red levers! Had to be done at rest for selecting low four, then a manic shuffling of levers if you needed to move up to high four without losing momentum in a bog!
The reason I didnt buy one, Vat , price , and the spare wheel in the back , I bought a Hilux instead , ridiculous not being able to get the Vat back , I also wasnt over impressed with rear legroom ,
Different spring rates for various combinations of engine and accessories has been a thing for donkeys' years. Can't believe they only give 15% of the chassis paint job to the charities.
Me, I hate them. I drove too many trucks and some had overhead radios which are impossible to tune or even change the volume because your arm is flapping about due to the rough ride. In the end I used to turn it off and learned to live with silence.
Geez Harry.. I thought you'd know your way around old school low range selector and diff locks. Just have a very slight roll going when you shift between high low and you should find it shifts easy. .. and live axles are great. Horses for courses. If you are going off road live axles are great and small price to pay for proper off road defender replacement. Sooo much better than the new LR defender. I drove a demo Grenadier on off road course in Canada. Great car but still quite a few good picks in the used car market. Personally I love my old school defender with added air lockers. As a business purchase/lease 👍👍
The beauty of most modern 4x4s is that their electronics control all the diffs and traction control for you to maximise your traction off road (and they do it in fractions of a second).
There's little 'beauty' in electronic controls, of course they are great when they all work but for how long? I took my test on a Series 1 Land Rover 51 years ago and stuck with the marque up to the Discovery 2, all easily fixable on the side of the road although the D2 did have it's foibles from time to time. When the Ineos was in it's infancy I put my name down for a new one, when it was announced it would have a BMW engine I cancelled it. It's a pity that a simpler more basic engine was used, one that could be fixed on the side of the road with basic tools. Pity as it's a vehicle that would suit most agricultural needs.
From an off-road perspective LR peaked at the Series 3. After that the electronics became a vulnerability. Landrovers used to be repairable with a bit of wire & few hand tools but that disappeared with the move to fuel injection, ABS, coil springs, etc. That's partly why the Hilux took over in the truly rugged parts of the world - Toyota reliability. A mechanical failure in some places can put your very survival at risk. The Ineos Grenadier is a great attempt to return to those earlier times, as far as modern regulations and consumer tastes allow. Thanks for the excellent review Harry.
Perhaps a close-run thing and it might differ dependant on terrain, but I'd say 200Tdi was peak. Coil springs and central diff lock were a plus and the 200 Tdi could still be roll-started with a dead battery by removing the fuel solenoid. Although, if I could get one of my old ones back it would be my very early V8 county 110 - with the vacuum diff-switch and split doors.
They have knocked 30k NZD off some models here in NZ,not selling and Toyota fanboys wouldn't buy them on principle. They have brought out a double cab chassjs version,I will buy one and put a flatdeck on it for my contracting business a d more importantly,hunting in the southern alps.
There's a lot of unsold 2022 manufactured in Oz . They're trying not to discount , but eventually ............. Are there any spare parts , is the big problem .
Thank you Harry. I know what you mean about live front axles on a 4WD tending to ‘tramline’ BUT it will be 😊nothing like driving a 3 tonne tipper with solid front axle at open road speeds. I presume that your comment was intended mainly for people with minimal breadth of driving experience. The lack of self-centring is weird. Par for the course on a RHD Unimog but only because all Unimog steering boxes are situated on the left side of the vehicle.
@@LitleBear They just started US delivery, so we'll see how many actually get production. Vintage (imported) Defenders might actually drop in value now.
@@perpelle Yes, when he was showing the wheel, my initial thought was how small the nuts looked. To my eye, they were too small for the rugged effect that the wheels and tyres were going for.
I have no use for such a capable off road vehicle but I do realy like this quartermaster. I liked the grenadier too. I like the story of the company but................its all that BMW nonsense the main screen is a shame but I guess that's what cars have nowadays.i think the lack vat qualification could be an issue for some customers.great review as always harry.
I think my thing is that I'm really confused by the marketing for this vehicle. Its the simple farmers tool that you can bash around as much as you like. But then they price it way in excess of any of it competitors. I mean, its 30% more than the Defender! Then you go to my local Ineos dealership, and its in the same building as the Ferrari and Porsche! And its still verging on the dangerous on the road! I find it very interesting to note that Harry says the company is going towards the bespoke market - surely that is everything that Radclifee is wanting to avoid? Unless he has a history of saying one thing, then doing the other to maximise profits... Given those facts, it seems that it won't really appeal to farmers or people who need a cheap and simple 4X4, as they will want a Toyota Hilux or something like that. It seems to drive badly on the road, so presumably not many people will want it as a road driver. It does 14mpg, which means its massively expensive to run. The limp in the foot well means its uncomfortable to sit in! Its just massively confused and compromised. I can't help but feel its a case of the Emperor's new clothes. The main plus point of the car according to this review is that Harry likes Jim Radcliffe. It seems slightly suss that Harry gives a poor review, then gets "called in" by Jim and his colleagues, then gives it a *slightly* better review. I don;t think I've seen any review of these cars that say anything good about the car, other than that they;re "pleased it exists".
For a while now I've been trying to read the label on your red checked work shirt, but haven't been able to. It would be ideal for my dog walking shirt. Big 'proper' button down front pockets. If you could find the time and let me know I would be very grateful. Love your videos.
3:49 That really is a design fault. There are more times you need a locked rear diff in high range than you ever would need to be in low. You don't need, and arguably don't want the torque multiplication you just want the additional traction. If you're in the real muck, you need to be able to get that wheel speed before you get stuck.
@@Pandora882If you've ever done this in the real world you would understand. You've got the engine absolutely screaming trying to go a moderate pace. It's number one severely uncomfortable to drive, number two difficult to modulate torque input in slippery conditions because you have such a gear reduction. If you're in high range, you're much lower in the Power band and you have a better gentler feel of how that slip is occurring.
I hope the engineers don't adjust the chassis thickness, if you compare that to a hilux it looks chalk and cheese on wall thickness, that is a beast. Shafts are super robust too. Having been on topsides and pipelines design teams, skinning down stuff to minimum thickness for metal prices these days, I can tell you that the price is not bad really! And those prices on accessories are ten times cheaper than other vehicles in this class! Brilliant. I hope it finds a market and will be in for the secondhand ones!
Thanks. Very interesting insight into a specialist off-roader that assumes customised options. cAs you say at the end, time and extended use will show its true qualities, or otherwise. Cheers.
Having complained about Harry’s last review of the Grenadier , this one seemed very fair! I am loving my Trialmaster after 1 year and 13k KM, but it isn’t a car it’s a truck and you shouldn’t touch one unless you are happy with that. Our family Newfoundlander finds there is enough room for a big dog too!
Seen more and more grenadiers about and they do seem to be hitting the right market. Loads are either towing or have roof boxes on them. Some are stock but not used as a tow car as frequently as the new defender. Be good to see the next gen of grenadier, hopefully without the lump in the footwell. Thanks Harry.
I’m still wanting to love the Grenadier… but I just can’t. My hi cap TD5 has just past 200k on the clock, she won’t last forever and the grenadier would be the next thing. It’s too heavy for what I’d want and no manual gearbox (I enjoy changing gear, the last enjoyment of driving) would love to see if I can take the rear tub off and put my tipper body on as well🤔
I like the styling very much. I remember the last brand new defender90 I bought cost £20,000 + vat back in 2011 so incredible how prices have increased. Disappointed that technology has not managed to reduce the gross weight, 2.7 tonnes is crazy heavy and explains the poor economy
I wish every new vehicle came with that "disable stupid garbage" button. Sounds like a must have feature.
EU rules.
@@amcluesent And yet the car is available in the EU. Do "they" turn off that feature?
@@amcluesent you are actually allowed to turn the annoying crap off. It does have to come on after every restart so a no nonsense button like this is very desirable.
I wish they made cheaper cars without all the annoying crap!
@@trick700 For me it's not about the costs, i can't afford a new car anyway. But al the safety beeps are so annoying and distracting it's actually a lot less safe.
Oh dear Harry, I can’t help but think it’s built for farmers like yourself and Clarkson ( no offence) but for us farmers who haven’t done as well as you guys and just farm! We had land rovers as they were basic and good value for the money. I thought ineos was building good value for money off-roader and the advertising says it all the pictures of them with the family on an adventure. Us basic Land Rover farmers are forgotten about, sorry about the rant but I really wanted something so I could chop my old 90 in but I see nothing to replace it that I can afford/ great channel though and keep the vids coming.
Stuart.
It can’t quite make up its mind what it wants to be. Posh or workhorse. Hence the dealers have plenty on the forecourt that they can’t shift.
Absolutely, well said 👏
You guys have been thought about. That's why the Toyota Land Cruiser was invented!
Yes the pricing is a fright alright, I've had several Landrovers from S1, S2, S2a, S3, Defender 90, now my good car is an SVR Rangie, but my work wagon will stay a Jeep Gladiator I'm afraid, the Quartermaster would've been ideal too. Must say this reviewer doesn't have much of a clue about off roading or how the vehicles work,
@@burkezillar hi burkezillar um the new Land Cruisers are expensive as well and the last time I see one of those they didn’t look as rugged as the older ones.
I live not too far from Harry and have seen a few of these, a couple in my village, operating in their natural environment dropping the kids at school and visiting Waitrose. One is also particularly effective at using 2 parking spaces outside the village post office shop, lording it over the minions.
😂😂
Cool to see them being put to use, but it's also hilarious that this is what most Americans drive every single day in pickup truck form.
That’s hilariously funny but at the same time I love it because if only farmers and off road enthusiasts bought it none of us would be able to buy one because just like the Defender it wouldn’t be profitable to build. So three cheers for moms in Grenadiers! But you should only ever take one parking spot.
That will be all the range rovers.
Noice
"operator error"...... And that right there Harry, is why I watch your vids. Open and honest letting us know what you find, SMASHING. As always much appreciate the video cheers.
It didn't stop him from rubbishing it the first time round. In all honesty, people all over the world were embarrassed for how little he knew about four wheel drive CDL/locker actuation.
Did you get the steering wheel correction? "Lack of self-centering...." Yikes, on an expensive vehicle??????
If I remember the main distinction he drew agains the Defender was that the LR has a computer that does it all for you. Not everyone wants to have to memorise what you can do in which order. His business is growing stuff, not being an off road expert. Not knocking anyone, if you like the manual controls, great.
@@selseyonetwenty4631 Very good point.
I have something very similar except that mine was built in Solihull in 1984. It has the simplicity, peeling paint and battered panels that Harry wants!
I live in south west France. We are not a wine growing area but a fruit growing area. Our local fruit farmer has bought an Ineos Grenadier and it's a real pleasure to see him out and about. It's always covered in shite and he seems to use in all the time. When I get the chance I will ask him what he thinks of it.
4 Letter word plus an 'e'. You must be a Scot.🤣
@@flatheadV8
Yorkshire.
@@turbolevo8703 Aye, that will do Lad.
@@flatheadV8 Born in Kent but my dad was Irish
@@borjastick Would make an extra verse in 'Substitute' by The Who
What a great surprise, a Harrys Farm on Thursday! Made my day.
I am a hill farmer. Followed the Grenadier from the start and got one this time last year. After years of Land Rovers and eventually getting fed up of them I am glad Jim and his team has done what Land Rover should have done years ago. Best vehicle I have ever had for what I do. I am glad Harry has got it now as I think his first review was a bit uneducated!
I though farmers were poor? You could have literally bought two japanese crew cab pickups for the same money.......
Literally couldn’t. A specced up hilux is £40k compared to an original gren especially if they bought at the original price.
Land Rover definitely dropped the ball as the new Defender is basically an SUV with limited off road capability, what we once called `Chelsea Tractors' that might see a muddy field at an equestrian event.
Yet the New Defender did everything Harry asked of it on the farm without having to have special meetings with the designers. And for what it couldn't do you'd already be in your tractor.
Don’t think it was uneducated. He tested it as a road car - as a road car it’s not very good. I don’t think Land Rover should have done this years ago - you buy this because you want an old school feel.
I did that sort of climb in my Jimny, with only a center diff lock. Anyway, like your channel👍
Being a JLR customer for the last 20yrs and being constantly disappointed and always replaced my LR when the new vehicle warranty expired @ 3yrs (which would be 3 new Landrovers every 9yrs)
i decided to jump in and order one of the 1st Diesel Grenadiers which was delivered in April 2023
It was the best decision I’ve ever made, and over a 9 yr period I will only have to replace the Grenadier with another Grenadier every 5yrs because it comes with a factory 5yrs warranty (a reduction in the purchase cycle of one vehicle)
It’s used for work and play, and it’s like driving around in a block of Granite.
Massively over engineered, and I absolutely love the Grenadier and it’s never let me down
The steering isn’t an issue after a few hours of the initial drive, the same as the foot rest on the RHD version
If you have owned the old Defender and interested in the Grenadier, go test drive one for 2hrs and you will love it
Bought a Hilux 10 year 100k Warranty in the UK, Will easily last me 15 to 20 years 👍
@@-DC- Hilux is a great pick up, I wanted something that was more luxurious but also built to last like the Hilux and the Grenadier ticked that box
I'm glad to hear you love it
Was at Goodwood this weekend - a Grenadier pulling a new Defender with low profile tires out of the mud was an absolute highlight
And that tells you everything you need to know about the new Defender and the Grenadier! Is there a video online?
@@stevezodiac575 No we were leaving the car park which I have to say had become a an absolute quagmire due to the rain -- the owner of the Landy was dead embarrassed though
@@stevezodiac575 Only that some owners of the new Defenders are a bit stupid. The vehicle itself is an immense piece of kit.
@@mrdainaseSecond this, anything Land Rover pisses on this defender look a like, even a 2wd Freelander
Did you get the steering wheel correction? "Lack of self-centering...." Yikes, on an expensive vehicle??????
Just done 11,000 miles in 23 countries in 12 weeks in mine and it’s become my vehicle Lab , faithful and reliable so far
You'd expect that from a BMW in all honesty. It's around the 80k mark they start to become a headache.
Compare to Jeep Gladiator and Ford F-250 Super Duty.
Did you get the steering wheel correction? "Lack of self-centering...." Yikes, on an expensive vehicle??????
@@iamgermane the castor and camber was set up , and what a difference it makes, I actually bought 2 and don’t even notice anything
@@iamgermane In Australia, Jeep Gladiator is not available in diesel so is useless in the bush
From somebody who has used 79 series Landcruisers their whole life in Australia for timber work and general farming, the idea of calling something with that BMW shifter “rugged” is ‘challenging’. I don’t remember having to worry about sequences of button presses to make the Landcruiser work off-road.
Land Cruisers are horrid.
It has an engine from a canal boat and all of the creature comforts of a cave and about as quick as one
@@peanuts2105 That sounds like my friend's wife, especially the last bit🤣.
I've had cruisers and those with part time 4 wheel drive often have free wheeling front hubs you have to get out and engage, then used the transfer case lever to slip into 4h, then through Tcase neutral to 4L and press button for front and rear lockers if optioned. Not really that much different?
Considering that it‘s all a few easy button presses, no issue.
Also the ZF-8 transmission that it is using is sturdy as hell, the rest is up to ineos.
@@rasersedge2004You can get automatic locking hubs for those land cruisers or you can leave them locked or even use drive flanges so no locking hubs
As an Australian looking at your 'hill', I shake my head.
Bloody oath mate
You can have two Isuzu pickups for that, they are work horses too
Well yes.. but you can't get more mass-market than Isuzu. This is quite a lot more niche, with a price that's actually less than I thought it would be. It's kind of Caleb Cooper's pick-up versus Jeremy Clarkson's. I also think the Grenadier is completely uncompromised for off-roading. Isuzu trucks still need to be comfortable on the road.
I'm also struggling to see the market for this.
It’s nothing but an ugly status symbol.
Not in the US you can't.
Cheers Harry. I've put about 20k on my 2 seater utility. Built tough and would pull a house down. Changed the steering damper so the steering wheel now returns to centre. Diesel engine with towing, off road and normal road driving still thirsty at 20.8mpg average over 20k miles.
Watching from South Africa. Awsame car.🇿🇦
Awesome*
@@JohnDoe-tv4zfit’s the Saffer accent 😂🤣.
Something about the money for charity rubs me the wrong way. It seems to me that all the money for that upgrade should go directly to charity - otherwise it's just too show-offy. 150 euros is simply too little. What you're saying is "I paid 1000 euros to keep 850 of it away from charity", because why wouldn't you just go for a standard frame and donate the 1000 directly? Or give 990 and spend 10 on a red spraycan?
It is meant to to be a "feel good" thing but I fully agree, it is a farce.
"I paid 1000 euros to keep 850 of it away from charity" - haha, well said 👏Weird virtue-signalling indeed.
But then nobody would know you’d done it. Pure virtue signalling
I am so glad I was not the only one thinking this.
That applies to every single donation via corporate, even if they claim 100% goes to charity they'd use it for tax breaks
Both yourself and clarkson are making farming seem like a desirable profession. Lots of fun.
Its a hobby for them. They are millionaires from other avenues. Nothing like the real world of farming.
Buying the land is the issue. No mortal man can afford it.
Might be fun but there’s no money in it apparently and you have to like working 365 days a year…
Neither are professional farmers!
Both of them are media personalities playing farmers. Clarksons farm in particular is not real farming
Thanks for showing us Harry. It's interesting to know what off road truck's there are about.
What a great surprise! A bonus from Harry 👍 I have to say, price aside, the Grenadier Quartermaster looks very much at home around the farm. Certainly from the way it looks to have been built, it would appear to be capable of being the sort of vehicle which will still be working away in 20-30yrs time just like the original Defender. I think it just comes down to if you are prepared to make such a large investment in anticipation of getting 30+yrs use out of it, by which time the cost equation starts to look reasonable. A good review from Harry as ever, putting it properly to use. 👍
An enormous amount of thought has gone into this vehicle. It clearly takes a minimum of two Harry’s Garage/Farm videos to fully appreciate it. So, not your average vehicle, but certainly built to purpose. 👏
I’m surprised they didn’t tell you all that diff lock stuff when they gave you the first car. Kind of critical to not have user error:) Loving your content as ever
The motor journalist do have some sort of responsibility to check the manual or Google if they don't know how stuff works.
It's a bad design. Spend some time in an American pickup truck. You will realize that you very rarely need low range, but you use that locked rear diff all the time. Sometimes you don't even need to be in four-wheel drive to take advantage of that extra traction at the rear.
@@otm646, this is full time 4x4, the pickup trucks you are talking about are part time. Not comparable at all.
Everybody who has ever driven a proper 4x4 offroad and know a tiny bit of what this means, knows that as soon as you get off the road, you either engage the centre diff lock (in full time) or the front axle (in part time). We are not talking about axle locks or low range even. Because if you don’t do that, you get just 1 wheel drive. And that’s a very very well known fact in the 4x4 field.
That previous test did not speak well for Harry, unfortunately. It was just not professional enough and on par with his usual attitude and overall car knowledge.
@@mioiox Don't blame Harry he's used to driving a Land Rover products where you don't have all that faff pushing buttons and levers. You just point it at the hill and it goes up!!
@@mioiox You're really not understanding here. This is not a full time four wheel drive versus part time four-wheel drive discussion. You should also know that all of the newer pickup trucks automatically engage the transfer case at speed.
Most the time when you're in a field like this you want the additional traction of both rear wheels rotating at the same speed. You don't honestly need to have the front axle engaged most the time. In this scenario he has to shift into low range to engage the rear axle lock. That's why it's a bad design.
I grew up on a farm, I've driven through muddy fields my entire life, you don't want low range, high range with a locked rear you're lower in the power band and it gives you much better feel if there's any slip that's starting.
I saw an Ineos with enormous power on safari in Tanzania. Cheetah survey team was given one to use. They loved it!
I'm no farmer but I really like it.👍 It's 1990's tech, with a few modern extras, and identical in many ways to my '97 Land Cruiser, from the heavy duty ladder chassis, coil springs, good old manual gear levers, mechanical diff locks, right down to the 6 wheel studs/nuts. The UL weight is even the same at 2700+kg. If you need, or even just like this kind of vehicle you can forgive the compromised on road manners and if you can't, then buy a Discovery or a Range Rover. As Harry mentions at the end, many will sell to owners who will rarely, if ever, venture off road but just love the the rugged good looks and relative simplicity.👍
There’s nothing simplistic about it. There’s 35 sensors on that engine alone
Only the chassis & axles are old school when they don’t need to be.
@@hughmarcus1 Of course there is. It's unavoidable and necessary to meet the ever tightening emission laws. My LC is mechanical injection, no fancy electronics, CAT or DPF and no Adblue tank. I've no idea what Euro spec it is but it certainly isn't Euro 6😂. Things move on and wether we like it or not it's called progress. Give me mechanical levers and diff locks any day over all this electronic "driver aid" crap. The brain in my car is ME. 😂
@@hughmarcus1 it's still a dead nuts reliable engines at that power level, and it will last FOREVER.
@@hughmarcus1That may be but there is a significant fewer CPU’s than any other car built today and done so embracing the engineering philosophy of graceful degradation so if something fails it’s far less likely to prevent vehicle operations.
@@spdcrzy Lots of M5 owners might disagree. The point is that BMW don't produce heavy or commercial vehicles. Land Rover's experience with BMW 6 pots will tell you they're not the right engine for a heavy 4x4, especially if that 4x4 is doing any serious work. Ineos tout the Grenadier as being a tough workhorse, my view from the start, is that this engine could well prove it's undoing
I'm so impressed that they managed to "Just start making them" from scratch.
Seems to me that they will evolve slowly, and get better with time.
This sort of car, don't need a second generation really, just gradual improvements.
That was always Landrover's problem, for decades no two were the same. I tested a new 1986 LWB Stage iV and it had a wind up window for the driver but sliding windows for the passenger. as an example
The Grenadier won its class in the 2024 Alcan 5000 Rally, there are plans for the Ineos Grenadier to be fielded in the 2025 World Rally-Raid Championship, which includes rallies like Dakar
Which makes absolutely no comparison to a version the public can buy. Those rally vehicles are hand built for racing,
The nature of the Alcan Rally, being a speed/distance regularity event means it hardly mattered what vehicle you drove. The event is won by the driver/Co driver and their skill. Look at the other vehicles taking part and finishing.
Great looking vehicle, for the next / updated revision i hope they can sort some of the key issues out i.e. poor steering.
The return to center on a tight turn is a steering geometry issue. The vehicle has been set up with 0 degrees caster angle to give better response off-road and to minimise the already limited turning radius. This is great for low speed bush tracks but may be a potential safety hazard on the black top. Imagine you’re turning onto an intersection and misjudge the time and distance of on/incoming traffic and you need to step on the accelerator to clear safely. Without a caster assisted recenter you could easily oversteer and end up crossing into the oncoming lane (and potentially overcorrect back). It will also require constant corrections driving in a straight line. This is probably overcome with time and experience behind the wheel but the best solution would be to build 2-3 degrees into the factory caster angle.
2 degrees of caster is the specification and it should be leaving the factory with
Sounds like a Jeep Wrangler
0 degrees is incorrect and should be edited. You literally do not know what you are talking about. I find not over inflating tires helps with tracking as well.
@@BryanPike I’ve seen physical caster measurements from two separate Trialmasters both with 0 degrees from the factory. A quick google search will show this is not unique. The owners manuals were not available at the time and assumed that was an intentional factory setting rather than a quality assurance issue from the factory. Adjusting the caster cam bolt to its maximum achieves just over 2.2 degrees. It could do with 1 more degree + but that would require a modification and would further reduce the turning radius. Who drives with over inflated tires? That’s like saying my engine runs better with the correct fuel. Don’t let your sunk cost bias interfere with objective reasoning.
@@SingaporeSling1 The dealer service department has a QA Document for receiving and checking units for sale. The manual says 2° with a max of 2°30' just like fluids etc alignment is supposed to be checked. Chaining these heavy vehicles down in shipment evidently has pulled some units out of spec. I have no issue on the first thousand miles on my Grenadier that I took delivery of this month. The door plate shows tire pressure of 42 front and 49 back PSI. The steering is much better running 38psi which I am running on KO2s. So no, your quip above is wrong, a Grenadier is NOT set up with 0° caster, if received that way, it is out of spec. Luckily mine is and loving every mile of it. The return to center is primarily impacted by a stiff stock steering stabilizer, which some guys have swapped out for an adjustable Fox unit. I think they may have adjusted this a bit in production as time has gone by. i have not issue, but like when I drove a Hummer, gunning the gas out of a corner it does not try to unwind itself like rack and pinion, making you feed the wheel proactively a bit.
As a Brit now living in the USA, I just realized how Americanized I have become after puckering up seeing you drive on the other side of the road.
that what almost all of the world does. 165 countries are right hand side and only 75 are lefthand side. that has nothing to do with the usa. in fact rest of europe drives on the right ....
I watch so many UK car & motorcycle videos that it rarely phases me, the only time I get shocked is when someone turns right & I worry that a car is coming up behind them & will smash the shit out of em. Then I chastise myself for being silly. This tends to happen more often with motorcycle videos.
@@marekhild7192 It does have to do with the USA because the original commenter now lives in the USA.
@@marekhild7192 75 to 165 is actually quite a high number for RHD. Not to mention that about 1/3 of world's population lives in RHD countries (UK, Ireland, Japan, Australia, NZ, entire Indian Subcontinent, Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, large part of Africa etc.).
What got me first time driving right hand in Barbados was the stick shift pattern. I always imagined it would be reversed... nope. That took a little getting used to. That and coming off round abouts.😊
"Outhouse" is the word you were searching for Harry 😉
As a former user of LR and Japanese 4x4’s dead a field engineer, this looks very promising. As you say at the end of the video, I would be interested to know more about how it responds in various fail states: ie, if that exposed ABS cable on the front axle (5:20) gets snagged, does it disable some systems and keep going, or throw a meltdown?
I think this, and the ease of tracing electrical faults, will determine if they make it past the ten year mark.
I think you summarise this perfectly. It fits a very niche gap in the market. There will be a lot of individuals that will say yeah but what about this and that, with no interest in using the vehicle in the way it’s been designed. 90% of the new defenders will see nothing more than wet grass and will spend ridiculous amounts of time being repaired. They have the badge and the kerb appeal though. It will take a lot more effort to sell a grenadier because most will lack the ability to grasp its true ISP.
Its true USP is obvious to everyone, i don't think it's just you and a few others who can grasp it.
@@morganthedruid1 Everyone? That’s a huge statement of fact. Go through the comments on here to see otherwise.
Actually the new Defender is proving very reliable
@@luccadukka In the US I will be curious how well they sell. There are a lot of $90,000 Jeeps on the road. This is a step up, it's not a Chrysler product and it's a much more classic look which will pull in buyers.
The chassis and the body will outlive the electronics in this car many times.
Toyota Hilux and Land Cruiser have both decades of generations and are both trusted.
Plenty of Toyota’s break down mate. I have owned a 3, one 2.8 Diesel Hilux spun a big end bearing at 100 000 km and was serviced every 5000 km. Not to mention others having injector, DPF and clutch failures ect.
Newer Hilux are soft as shit. List of issues.
In Belgium you CAN register it as a full commercial vehicle and deduce the VAT but you lose one seat ;)
It’s not a car, it’s a machine, a tool. So great to see someone build something to a vision and standard without compromise. Surely a first choice for anyone engaged in serious off-road adventuring. I know what I’d want to use out in the backwoods, Alaska or the deserts.
I want one!
Good looking farmer’s vehicle, much more practical than a new Defender that everybody that used to have a Discovery 4, now drives.
……….I’d rather have the Discovery 4, or even a 3.
But what I really want is that exact Grenadier!
I’ll put up with the Chassis, Springs and steering and I like my left foot to be supported
Nearly all the farmers I watch, and I watch a lot, have Range Rovers. When they get to a certain size, they’re more farm managers than workers, so don’t need the ruggedness. Most of the smaller farmers that don’t have the same money, just buy pickups.
@@fanfeck2844 I’m a Farm manager and I do have a Range Rover.
…………15 years old RR Sport 3 litre. If it were a Disco 4, it’d be worth twice as much!
But my works vehicle is a 19 years old 2.7 Discover 3 and I like it more than the RRS.
However, I still hanker after a Grenadier!
A licence weight restriction that only applies to ICE vehicles while Cat B licence holders wanting to drive EVs exceeding 3,500Kg get a free pass up to 4,250Kg instead of having to acquire a C or C1 licence. Amazing how they get the rules changed when it suits an agenda.
It should indeed be applied to all such vehicles but only ones new enough with the modetn safety features.
It will go on a lot longer than any other current Landrover product!!!
Was at the Yorkshire hill rally last weekend and the stewards and safety team were using Grenadiers and the pickup. Stunning extremely capable vehicles.
Looks great , Sounds great 👍
Thanks Harry for the revisit of the Quartermaster
The kind of vehicle I didn't think was made anymore. One word sums it up for me - Solid.
Owned a 2012 RR Autobiography SC… even added a LR-RR extended warranty on top of the mfg standard and even when just the left rear air bag failed, the entire vehicle was essentially immobilized as the entire air suspension system was out and the vehicle was seemingly riding on the axles - the airbag failure occurred whilst my RR was sitting at the DFW airport valet parking garage for 2 wks as I was traveling on biz to the EU and UK and my wife and kids where in Maui - hence when I got back to DFW, I was essentially stranded and had to take an Uber home whilst arranging w/ my LR-RR store to flat-bed the vehicle to their store and to arrange a loaner vehicle - expecting that like with brakes, rotors and tires, if you’re replacing one side of axle, ya should replace the other side also, I inquired about doing the other side of the axle whilst it was up on the rack and in pieces - NOPE said LR-RR of NA. I even offered to pay for the additional part (like $2K) and they said nope…. I swore off LR-RR and after the repair was done under warranty, i immediately traded the RR for a 2016 MB GL63 AMG….lol, that vehicle was also a clusterfk… now drive 2022 Lexus LS600 and the living is smooth and easy…
@@Padoinky their dealer service in the US is really awful. Had a very good friend purchase an SVR right when they came out. It ate a fuel pump in the first 500 miles. They offered him a base loaner. Dealer ordered a fuel pump, tried to install it. It was the wrong part. The SVR part is different and apparently was completely unavailable. He ended up trading it in broken and got another Cayenne Turbo.
warranty work does not cover pre-emptive repairs. You'd never get another bag covered, all about money saving.
That looks like a great addition to any farm. 👍
Much fairer review than previous. Thank you. Enjoyed it.
Well he was essentially wined and dined into a better review.
Harry, you nailed it. Great review and as Ive only sat in one I can't comment on the driving qualities.
Everything you said I'd echo about the Ineos. I absolutely love my Grenadier Station Wagon. And yes, I do use it as designed, and I think it's brilliant. I don't say that only because I bought one, because if it wasn't a wonderful vehicle to drive I'd say so.
Here in the US we have to pay a 25% tariff tax making them a bit more rare. If we didn't have the import tax I'd probably trade for the Quartermaster.
Im looking forward to driving it.
Great video, as usual. Any chance you could get an interview with Jim Ratcliffe,Harry? Sounds like an interesting Gent.
Ye he's definitely interesting he was a big backer of Brexit and promised to build those 4x4 in Wales if Brexit happened, Brexit happened and like a true British patriot he built his factory in France 😂
@@John316OBrian-cm4fj Don't forget tootling around Mongolia in his blower Bentley with a team of support Grenadiers. Proper action man don't y'know. 😆
@@John316OBrian-cm4fj And has lived in Monaco for years, doesn't pay much tax (nom domicile status, obs) and even though the vehicle is assembled in France, it is badged to show it's British/German heritage/parts, but in doing so, slaps its French workforce in the face, by ignoring where it's put together...
@@John316OBrian-cm4fj Billionaires like "J.R." and their multinational corps. saw Brexit as a means to make more money more easily, by directly influencing the U.K.'s politicians, laws and regulations without having to worry about the E.U. getting in their way.
@@simongreenidge6454 The EU doesn't get in the way of billionaires, more money is spent lobbying Brussels than Washington.
I saw this car parked at the Goodwood Revival in Park City on Friday….it certainly suited the monsoon conditions! I think it has many merits and had following but I don’t have a use for such a commercial based vehicle….many will but the price is the problem. At least the build quality looked to have improved from dreadful to not bad! I still think the New Defender is a better solution for general use though. 🤔🤔🙂🙂🙂
14:25 - The teeny-weeny 'toot' horn is the thing that caught my attention. I'm not a horse rider, but I am a (reluctant, not militant) cyclist and, even though my crummy bicycle has mirrors, it's still nice to know when there's a car approaching.
Not many drivers bother to warn cyclists of their presence; those that do, often do so AGGRESSIVELY, with much furious revving of engines and blaring of horns. It doesn't help concentration, especially if you're already riding in the gutter (as I do).
Even a sensitive driver giving a polite 'bip bip' on a regular horn can sound unnecessarily angry, so the Grenadier's mini muted one is definitely something I'd like to see fitted as standard on more vehicles - EVs in particular. After all, it's not another toy - it's a practical, genuinely useful feature.
As for the rest of the Grenadier... Well, it's a car. Not my cuppa, but I suppose someone, somewhere, will love it.
Yes ! I can’t understand why it’s so rarely found. One of my motorcycles is electric and extremely quiet, I so wish I had a way to make pedestrians more aware of me without behaving to use the horn.
You will be pleased to know that the first time I washed my Grenadier was 28,000K. My first dint was on the first day of ownership when a lady in an AUDI gave me a love tap. There was minimal damage. I had a second tap from a Toyota, another crease, but the Grenadier's paint stayed intact! Both times, these people backed into me, and mine is Scottish white!! I purchased white for a reason!!!
Must have been a good lunch to get this thing rolled in glitter.
🤣My thoughts exactly.
Fantastic review Harry
I wouldnt bother with one. Its obviously a copy of an old brand vehicle but things have moved on in life and the LR defender looks far better. The Gren is just not worth the money. Yes its very off road, but it strikes the wrong on road/off road balance. And to blame user error just means that the car is not easy to use... and thats wrong
The LR defender is a joke and this is almost as bad
Great video as ever, and a great car for what it's designed to do. Maybe the niggles will be sorted out in the Series 2. I also hope you get to test the new LandCruiser, as I understand that it's also built on a ladder chassis.
Will be interesting collectors item (stored and not used) as part of a collection for £m’aires
works just like my Mitsubishi Montero/Shogun. You need to be in LR for the back/front differential. By the way, your honesty is very much appreciated.
I just love that someone is making a vehicle like this today. I have a feeling these might be viewed as pretty legendary in 20-30 years.
Living in a country town in Central Queensland, Australia, starting to see quite a few of these getting around with the farmers out here. Definitely not as popular as the 79 series Landcruisers, but they are making their presence known. From what I’ve heard they are quite capable off road, and on the many dirt roads here.
Like the look of that upcoming 2-seat commercial version.
Wasn't aware that was on the cards.
Talking about being niche, I wonder if they'll ever be daring enough to offer a single cab pickup version to rival Landcruiser's offerings.
Does the off-road mode need engaging every time you start it up or will it stay on through engine starts until you go 44?
Good review 😊I'd like to see more on the roads and a few proper dealer showrooms and some getting serious use on farms
Traditionalists need not worry though. To get the full "Classic Defender" experience just move the seat as far forward as it will go and wear size 20 wellies...
It's nice that you finally get it, Harry ! You should watch some of Ronny Dhal's videos if your wondering on the Grenadier's off road capabilities and toughness.
Fantastic vehicle 👍🏼
Brilliant video Harry. What a machine that is 😊
are they planning to make a smaller version called the 1/8 master?
Great review. I really like the V8 and the jacked up red pickup versions. The commerical ones appeal to me more than domestic. Hopefully and short wheelbase will be available one day in van and pickup versions.
What I don’t understand is that Land Rover “HAD” to stop manufacturing the Defender, something related to crash protection for pedestrians (I only know what was said in the media at the time). So how have INEOUS managed to make an almost identical shaped vehicle that does meet the requirements ? Why was Land Rover unable to ?
Did JLR just use it as an excuse to stop making the longest running production car & get out of the farm vehicle market ?
If these had a Land Rover badge on, the production line would be at full capacity. It’s crazy.
Have you not noticed the hideous front bumper extension on the Grenadier? The fact is simple, there are not enough sales in this segment to make any money. Ineos are never ever going to even breakeven with the Grenadier (over $1.5Billion in costs, just 7,000 built (built, not sold..) to date)
LR sold roughly 8,000 Defenders a year in the last decade before it was put out of production, they sold 110,000 new defenders in 2023 alone....
It's actually pretty clear, if JLR had continued with the old defender, they would have gone bust. It's honestly that simple
The Ineous's automotive arm who make the Grenadier is only not yet gone bust because of the richness of it's owner. They do not have, nor will ever have imo, a valid business case for this segment that stands on its own two feet.
They very labour intensive to make, rubbish to drive, noisy, cramped, uneconomical, leaky, drafty, and we’re only selling about 1500-2000 worldwide, so no money in it
The design of this is early 21st century not the 1940s. It’s that simple.
EuroNCap killed the old Defender, no air bags, pedestrian protection etc etc. most modern SUVs now have an airbag on the bonnet.
Well, you can have the ‘old’ Defender, but JLR say the price is £200k, yup you read that right: 200 grand…
I’d like that big red Grenadier pick-up and plenty of change left over to fuel it.
Can only say that one of my friends who s got a restaurant and a part time farm absolutely loves the Grenadier (Diesel engine) and he had the powerful Diesel on the Hilux right before he got the Grenadier last year. The overhang to the front , general visibility, bad economy and the fact that the space that was quite limited compared to the vehicle size often upset him in the Hilux. He s extremely happy with the Grenadier and I sometimes think they should hire him as a sales rep coz he just talked one of his neighbours into getting one as well as he proudly told me. Edit: I m so not a fan of these 4x4 or even SUVs but I must say, he made me want one. The way it s built and how sturdy it feels is quite cool so if I wanted or needed sth like that, the Grenadier he has in his spec would pretty much be top of my list as well.
Hi-Lux is 30k cheaper and will still be working while the parts bin special will be long gone.
@@stewartjmurray In my market it s not that much cheaper actually, it s more like 20k and tbh I drove the Hilux with him numerous times and found it dreadful time after time and totally understood why he doesn t like it, fuel economy, usable space and visibility being the things that instantly shocked me and bothered him as the owner. Meanwhile, what instantly won me personally over was the build quality, room and actually good visibility and all those features my friend talked about that wouldn t matter much to me as a non 4x4 fan. He s happy with the Grenadier and I get why, for me personally the Hilux and its downfalls surprised me a lot given they re the no1 UN vehicle worldwide and I expected a lot more. How can it be so tiny inside being big even more so compared to the Grenadier, not powerful whilst drinking etc etc. I still give you the fact that parts bin and proven in "combat" are a thing but gee, the Grenadier is really nicely built and it made me think of the G Class prior to becoming an in-fashion thing.
@@nonamenameless5495 thats because they price hi-lux’s too high. In Aus I can get one for less than 30k sterling. At that price they make sense. They will also out last the ineos, as you say they are used globally for a reason. A hi-lux customer isn’t an ineos customer I don’t think there is much cross shopping going on. I can see people buying one to be different or individual, but a new Defender is a better all rounder, a Landcruise is better off road and more reliable and a Hi-Lux is 80% of the vehicle at half the price. However you pays your money you takes your choice, if he likes his purchase than good on him.
It’s good that they gave you a course in how to make use of the very fiddly, complicated and perhaps not fully thought-out systems in it so you can use it as intended. The question is why those systems are so fiddly and why you would need all of those functions and features in the first place? Why didn’t they make it simpler and more old-school like the suspension design? It just seems very poorly thought out.
Was the development not done in Austria?
Hmm... reminded me of the old-school shifting on the Series LRs, where you had to do all that shuffling with the yellow and red levers! Had to be done at rest for selecting low four, then a manic shuffling of levers if you needed to move up to high four without losing momentum in a bog!
Well done Harry
Great honest review 👏
The reason I didnt buy one, Vat , price , and the spare wheel in the back , I bought a Hilux instead , ridiculous not being able to get the Vat back , I also wasnt over impressed with rear legroom ,
I was amazed that a dealership less than 20 miles away from me here in the US is now offering and servicing Ineos
perfect timing for my lunch thank you harry
And my breakfast on the the east coast of the U.S.
As driver of 20 year old big-built Wrangler… I like this grenadier… 👍😊
Different spring rates for various combinations of engine and accessories has been a thing for donkeys' years.
Can't believe they only give 15% of the chassis paint job to the charities.
The charitable donation is only part of what Ineos do , check out what else Ineos support on the Rhino Trust
@@CraigMcCarthy-u8v Sure but make the donation 80% then. 15% is insulting.
Pleased you gave it a fair review on your Farming Channel 👍🏻
who doesn't like roof buttons though 😍
Me, I hate them. I drove too many trucks and some had overhead radios which are impossible to tune or even change the volume because your arm is flapping about due to the rough ride. In the end I used to turn it off and learned to live with silence.
It's amazing the difference a brown packet can make😀
Ha ha
These vehicles make a statement like, "I'm quite wealthy, but somewhat down-to-earth."
No just I have lots of money and can afford nice things
Geez Harry.. I thought you'd know your way around old school low range selector and diff locks. Just have a very slight roll going when you shift between high low and you should find it shifts easy. .. and live axles are great. Horses for courses. If you are going off road live axles are great and small price to pay for proper off road defender replacement. Sooo much better than the new LR defender.
I drove a demo Grenadier on off road course in Canada. Great car but still quite a few good picks in the used car market. Personally I love my old school defender with added air lockers. As a business purchase/lease 👍👍
The beauty of most modern 4x4s is that their electronics control all the diffs and traction control for you to maximise your traction off road (and they do it in fractions of a second).
Which diffs?
@@pistonburner6448 Disco 3 and 4 have locking rear and centre diffs all controlled by computer magic.
@@Rover200Power See: no locking front diff.
There's little 'beauty' in electronic controls, of course they are great when they all work but for how long? I took my test on a Series 1 Land Rover 51 years ago and stuck with the marque up to the Discovery 2, all easily fixable on the side of the road although the D2 did have it's foibles from time to time. When the Ineos was in it's infancy I put my name down for a new one, when it was announced it would have a BMW engine I cancelled it. It's a pity that a simpler more basic engine was used, one that could be fixed on the side of the road with basic tools. Pity as it's a vehicle that would suit most agricultural needs.
@@pistonburner6448 That's what the aftermarket is for.
From an off-road perspective LR peaked at the Series 3. After that the electronics became a vulnerability.
Landrovers used to be repairable with a bit of wire & few hand tools but that disappeared with the move to fuel injection, ABS, coil springs, etc.
That's partly why the Hilux took over in the truly rugged parts of the world - Toyota reliability. A mechanical failure in some places can put your very survival at risk.
The Ineos Grenadier is a great attempt to return to those earlier times, as far as modern regulations and consumer tastes allow. Thanks for the excellent review Harry.
Perhaps a close-run thing and it might differ dependant on terrain, but I'd say 200Tdi was peak. Coil springs and central diff lock were a plus and the 200 Tdi could still be roll-started with a dead battery by removing the fuel solenoid. Although, if I could get one of my old ones back it would be my very early V8 county 110 - with the vacuum diff-switch and split doors.
They have knocked 30k NZD off some models here in NZ,not selling and Toyota fanboys wouldn't buy them on principle.
They have brought out a double cab chassjs version,I will buy one and put a flatdeck on it for my contracting business a d more importantly,hunting in the southern alps.
There's a lot of unsold 2022 manufactured in Oz . They're trying not to discount , but eventually ............. Are there any spare parts , is the big problem .
folks are waiting for the ute as it's tax deductible
Thank you Harry. I know what you mean about live front axles on a 4WD tending to ‘tramline’ BUT it will be 😊nothing like driving a 3 tonne tipper with solid front axle at open road speeds. I presume that your comment was intended mainly for people with minimal breadth of driving experience. The lack of self-centring is weird. Par for the course on a RHD Unimog but only because all Unimog steering boxes are situated on the left side of the vehicle.
Started to see these in the states, only in wealthy suburbs, tells you enough haha.
Do you cruise around wealthy suburbs looking at people's cars?
@@LitleBear They just started US delivery, so we'll see how many actually get production. Vintage (imported) Defenders might actually drop in value now.
FYI Harry. Five studs are the norm for most vehicles these days. Four studs only for smaller sedans and six studs in place for the heavy duty stuff.
It's not that simple. Using six studs instead of five grants you the ability to go down in diameter on the studs.
But generally, HD stuff use 6+.
@@graemecatty9921 im surprised Harry didn't mention that it uses tractor axles
@@perpelle Yes, when he was showing the wheel, my initial thought was how small the nuts looked. To my eye, they were too small for the rugged effect that the wheels and tyres were going for.
To me, Harry is still not convinced
I have no use for such a capable off road vehicle but I do realy like this quartermaster. I liked the grenadier too. I like the story of the company but................its all that BMW nonsense the main screen is a shame but I guess that's what cars have nowadays.i think the lack vat qualification could be an issue for some customers.great review as always harry.
I think my thing is that I'm really confused by the marketing for this vehicle. Its the simple farmers tool that you can bash around as much as you like. But then they price it way in excess of any of it competitors. I mean, its 30% more than the Defender! Then you go to my local Ineos dealership, and its in the same building as the Ferrari and Porsche! And its still verging on the dangerous on the road! I find it very interesting to note that Harry says the company is going towards the bespoke market - surely that is everything that Radclifee is wanting to avoid? Unless he has a history of saying one thing, then doing the other to maximise profits...
Given those facts, it seems that it won't really appeal to farmers or people who need a cheap and simple 4X4, as they will want a Toyota Hilux or something like that. It seems to drive badly on the road, so presumably not many people will want it as a road driver. It does 14mpg, which means its massively expensive to run. The limp in the foot well means its uncomfortable to sit in!
Its just massively confused and compromised.
I can't help but feel its a case of the Emperor's new clothes. The main plus point of the car according to this review is that Harry likes Jim Radcliffe. It seems slightly suss that Harry gives a poor review, then gets "called in" by Jim and his colleagues, then gives it a *slightly* better review. I don;t think I've seen any review of these cars that say anything good about the car, other than that they;re "pleased it exists".
For a while now I've been trying to read the label on your red checked work shirt, but haven't been able to. It would be ideal for my dog walking shirt. Big 'proper' button down front pockets. If you could find the time and let me know I would be very grateful.
Love your videos.
3:49 That really is a design fault. There are more times you need a locked rear diff in high range than you ever would need to be in low. You don't need, and arguably don't want the torque multiplication you just want the additional traction. If you're in the real muck, you need to be able to get that wheel speed before you get stuck.
You can use all 8 gears in low and get to over 50mph I think thats more than enough wheel speed .
@@Pandora882If you've ever done this in the real world you would understand. You've got the engine absolutely screaming trying to go a moderate pace. It's number one severely uncomfortable to drive, number two difficult to modulate torque input in slippery conditions because you have such a gear reduction. If you're in high range, you're much lower in the Power band and you have a better gentler feel of how that slip is occurring.
The auto keeps the revs down the engine doesn’t screamaway
I hope the engineers don't adjust the chassis thickness, if you compare that to a hilux it looks chalk and cheese on wall thickness, that is a beast. Shafts are super robust too. Having been on topsides and pipelines design teams, skinning down stuff to minimum thickness for metal prices these days, I can tell you that the price is not bad really! And those prices on accessories are ten times cheaper than other vehicles in this class! Brilliant. I hope it finds a market and will be in for the secondhand ones!
But… will you buy one? What will you use for your farm vehicle going forwards?
He'll carry on using the old trusted range rover
Or a Hilux for 40k. Farmers won't be buying it en masse
Thanks. Very interesting insight into a specialist off-roader that assumes customised options. cAs you say at the end, time and extended use will show its true qualities, or otherwise. Cheers.
Having complained about Harry’s last review of the Grenadier , this one seemed very fair! I am loving my Trialmaster after 1 year and 13k KM, but it isn’t a car it’s a truck and you shouldn’t touch one unless you are happy with that. Our family Newfoundlander finds there is enough room for a big dog too!
Harry's last review was compromised by his relationship with land rover
Seen more and more grenadiers about and they do seem to be hitting the right market. Loads are either towing or have roof boxes on them. Some are stock but not used as a tow car as frequently as the new defender. Be good to see the next gen of grenadier, hopefully without the lump in the footwell. Thanks Harry.
I’m still wanting to love the Grenadier… but I just can’t. My hi cap TD5 has just past 200k on the clock, she won’t last forever and the grenadier would be the next thing. It’s too heavy for what I’d want and no manual gearbox (I enjoy changing gear, the last enjoyment of driving) would love to see if I can take the rear tub off and put my tipper body on as well🤔
I like the styling very much. I remember the last brand new defender90 I bought cost £20,000 + vat back in 2011 so incredible how prices have increased. Disappointed that technology has not managed to reduce the gross weight, 2.7 tonnes is crazy heavy and explains the poor economy
Proof that having James May accent will take you far in the automotive world
He created a magazine my man. Made his name and money without the accent..
That’s pretty hilarious, seeing as he’s a writer.
Same on my old 80 Series Land Cruiser. LR activates the centre diff lock, and front and rear lockers can then be selected as required