DEBATE! Should Christians Keep the Torah? | David Wilber vs. Tony Yu
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- Опубликовано: 23 май 2018
- Two Christians, David Wilber and Tony Yu, debate the role of the Torah in the lives of believers. This debate was hosted and moderated by Josh Tolley. It was originally streamed live May 14, 2017 on the Josh Tolley Show.
To read David's recap of this debate, go here: davidwilber.com/articles/deba...
David Wilber's website: davidwilber.com/
Freedom Hill Community: www.freedomhillcommunity.com/
Josh Tolley: www.joshtolley.com/
-Torah related resources-
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Hey, new to this channel. My husband and I watched last night and he said you should have dropped the mic after your opening statement. After watching, Mr. Lu seems to have the same old arguments as to why we shouldn’t observe Torah. Admittedly, when we first came to Christ, new to the faith, we were in that same camp…but when we started to read the Word for ourselves, we started to have questions. We had no idea that people even kept the Sabbath or Feast Days. Once we were convinced of the doctrine of Jesus (He taught Torah), we left that church and after much prayer, the Lord brought people into our lives who believe as we do. 🙌🏼
Love to all.
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. Ecclesiastes 12:13
Amen.
Old Testament. Written to Israel. Old Testament is to and for Israel. Doesn't mean we don't read it. We learn a lot. Mosaic Law requirements are not to the gentiles.
then how do you live????@@TexasGrandma2010
@@TexasGrandma2010
Hebrews 8:8-13 shows the New Covenant is with Israel and only Israel.
When you enter the new covenant through Christ, you enter Israel and you receive a new heart that knows the Law of God and keeps the Law.
The old covenant Law and the new covenant Law are the same Law. The difference is the heart. The problem with the old covenant was that man did not keep it. The new covenant causes you to keep it.
If you are not keeping the Law of the old covenant, you cannot claim to be in the new covenant, since the new covenant is keeping the Law.
Tony keeps missing the point; observance of the law doesn’t save, just like Baptism doesn’t save.BUT, both Baptism and observing the Law are very important in terms of obedience and bearing fruit.
Very well said brother.
In fact anyone who is a studious messianic Torah observer know ‘there is no remission without the shedding of blood’.
We don’t think we can Torah our selves to salvation, the Torah itself says that. Yet it seems that most Christians think we believe that.
May יהוה (GOD) bless you brother. Forgive the late comment but I felt lead to share
The more I listen and learn from various teachers in what I'll call the Messianic movement and I to try to find a "gotcha" ( because as a Christian my whole life Im terrified to follow something that is some weird movement or heresy) Im convinced even more that following The Torah to the best of my abilities with The Holy Spirit's help is the way I should walk out my faith. Ive been ill for some time so ive had lots of time to take in a lot of info on RUclips mostly. Im looking for a congregation near me and im blessed that it looks as though ill have several in my area to visit and choose from. ( im in Phoenix, AZ and theres some here and in surrounding cities! Who knew?!) My adult son, 20 y.o. ,cheerfully told me he could attend a Sabbath service withbme when I mentioned I found a few around us. My husband hasn't delved into learning yet, mostly because he's working a lot to keep us afloat, but he's open to everything I've shared with him and thinks it all mostly makes sense. So i know im blessed. A lot of people have no one that supports them when they begin to keep Sabbath and the Torah! Pretty sure the rest of my family isn't so happy about. Wait until I tell them im not keeping Christmas and especially not Easter! 😂
Eeeek if you keep Gods Commands you go to hell? That is pretty sinister, what a deception
When you are truly saved you will want to live as he lived it will replace all your desires and TV will be taken down and thrown out
Does that include getting rid of your phone and computer?
@@lmordin only if used for nonsense
When Tony Yu was reading scripture, he injected the word "law" a bunch of places where it wasn't written. This is really confusing, or even deceptive, for anyone not reading along.
It was extremely deceptive, and he ignored context in many key areas. Context is king.
I'll take deceptive for $50, Alex.
I noticed this.
Especially in his opening statement
Context is king. The mosaic law was written to the nation of Israel to set them apart. The new covenant is a new and better covenant, and it is a curse to try to live in the old covenant. And why would you want to live in the old one when we have a better and newer covenant?
Tony Yu really butchered some of the laws he was trying to recite, totally rewrote them to his own liking to make them sound absurd. You shouldn't have to lie about what the laws are, as a means to refute them. And then to say that they were meant to be impossible to follow, when the scriptures say they are meant to be easy to follow? Too much rewriting of the scriptures was used by Tony to present his case.
Deuteronomy 30:11 ESV - “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off.
@@robertfrancis3733amein verses 12-14 says
It is not in heaven, that you should say Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us that we may hear it, and do it?
Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, that we may hear it, and do it?
But the word is very nigh to you in your mouth and in your heart that you may do it. Which is funny because the new covenant which christians use to claim we dont have to follow it (it is written in Hebrews 10:16-17 ) literally says the law will be written on our Hearts
wow! This was killer, David seriously knows his bible! YAH bless!
I think Tony is a genuine believer, however I don't agree with his understanding of scripture by ignoring other scripture relating to them. I will say that he is impressively creative in his defense of false doctrine. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to listen to this debate.
Ouch... "impressively creative in his defense of false doctrine" 😅
Its true though. All of Protestantism does that very thing.
Shabbat Shalom and blessings brother. Excellent debate. Hebraic thought and eyes will always lead to biblical truth. Hellenistic thought and eyes just lead to confusion. Context, context, context the three most important tools for reading scripture once you have your Hebraic spectacles on. Tony Yu owned.....In love of course. Blessings brother. David (UK)
Tony, may God bless you for stepping out to do this and defend your perspective. The only problem, is that Scripture just doesn't line up with your perspective. I know because I was there. No doubt you seek Truth. I pray your eyes, ears and heart can be open to receiving Truth.
As it relates to what Paul said about Peter withdrawing from eating with Gentiles, we only have Paul's side of the story. Peter may have discovered that they were eating meat that had been sacrificed to idols and left for that reason. I can't believe Tony said it is a sin to keep the commands. That is very sad. That would make Yeshua and all the disciples sinners. He doesn't seem to understand the Dueteronomy 13 Test or the Old Testament because if he did he would know that if Yeshua changed anything to do with the law he would be a false prophet and not the Messiah. The New Covenant is to write the laws on our heart...to cause us to obey the commands; not to drive us away from them.
Robin Phillips AMEN
It was about circumcision, not the type of food.
The tradition of men, the Pharisees declared eating with Gentiles, even food declared clean by God, made one unclean.
The reason the Pharisees made these traditions, is the Gentiles often had dead relatives under their houses.
What does the law say about coming in contact with dead bodies?
This is why the Pharisees constructed a fence around Torah, prohibiting gentiles and Jews from mingling.
Brother Tony is genuine like many Christians who struggle on these issues. I wish and pray that he would take some time to hear this debate many times and reflect on these passages prayerfully.
David, brother you were clear and kept yourself to the context and I was really blessed. May the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob be praised. We can learn to think better as we challenge each other and spur one another.🙏🏽😀
All meaningful is repentance, due to the law of commandments.
Totally agree about spurring one another cowboy lol, just today I spurred someone calling a man Rabbi which Yehoshua Messiah says call no man Rabbi. I got bucked off quickly 😂. I am going to be using SPUR all weak!!!!!!!!
Did Yu really just say those obeying the most highs instructions are going to hell?! Wow. Great misunderstanding on his part. He needs to realize this is a brother in Christ and be loving to him and also LISTEN to what he's saying.
It baffles my mind when people say that. Scripture is very clear about the importance of keeping His commandments, and keeping the law is one of His commandments. The sad thing is those people who think that actually believe it.
That's the definition of a satanic lie. Only he and those under his deception will call good evil and evil good.
'It is good to eat of the fruit that God said you would die from, as a matter of fact, you'll be made just like Him, you won't die'
David simply shows us that Yeshua came as a Jew, honored His Father commandments, since the Great I Am is the highest authority. By the time of Constantine, those in political authority started chipping at the Faith once delivered. Gone was the true Sabath, the true feasts of YHWH, such assault on the teachings of Yeshua.
These are the people who longed to stone the woman caught in adultery in Moses’ name. They pretend to keep the law in pride & deception. Come to Christ.
Kate, that is what the Deciver does. It's number ONE task is to teach Torahlessness.
It was sin numer 1 btw.
Ive come to a conclusion that torah still stands in good discernment
Has heaven and earth passed
So tell me how one keeps 613 laws or even memorizes them?
Yeshua summed it up well "all the law and prophets hang on his 2 commands" love your neighbor love your God"
Thanks for doing this video. Very well done. I've seen too many debates that were a total mess
Unfortunately one cannot rationalize/argue anyone into or out of belief.
These issues do not determine salvation as Tony incorrectly asserts.
We do not follow Torah to achieve salvation, no, we follow Torah because we have been saved and our Yeshua/Salvation followed the Law. I know no one who attempts to force anyone to follow the Torah. It’s true that we cannot fulfill the Law. Tony mixes up the teaching of men with the Torah and forgets that most of us are not in Israel and so we cannot keep many of the Torah. I maintain that it is the Father’s Will for us to love Him and Love His Son, Who He sent as our Yeshua/Salvation. If we do love Him, we will follow His example by following the Torah.
Spot on, I agree. In some ways he seems anti semitic.
He fulfilled the Law. It is no more. We have a new covenant in Christ.
Oh and there are some animals that if we eat them we would die, such as a Poison dart frog. Other foods although not deathly are simply not good for you and do not support health in humans. Therefore our loving Creator told us what to eat and what not to eat.
I just started a week ago to not eat unclean things... With YAH, all things are possible.
Say it with me Tony. CONTEXT. Learn it.
Tony’s ending statement made it sound like those who keep the law on our hearts don’t trust in Jesus. I have faith, love, trust and want to obey and do what is pleasing to him. I’m renewed ❤️
Amen!!!
So if one is fulfilled in intimacy with their spouse, they shouldn't be intimate anymore??? It is finished? The relationship is fulfilled so we are done!!??? Wow....
excelent point
The three words "it is finished" are so twisted out of context.
Paul's epistles and John's record of Messiah aren't the gospel.
"As it is written"
But they don't look at how it's written, they just interpret the commentary of the new testament (which is what the new testament is) the last and only word.
@@Hebrew42Day - Thank you! The warning Christ gave of people saying they seen Christ here or there "dessert, and or secret places" does apply to Paul and John who claim that the heard/seen Christ in these places rather than "like lightning shining from east to west" (for all to see) as our Lord promised.
Fulfill means to abound in and confirm by walking them out
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:33
"Here is the patience of the *saints* here are they that: 'keep the commandments of God' and 'the faith of Jesus'." (Revelation 14:12)
great debate - good job David!
Thanks!
Acts 15 is good enough for me, no more confusion for me.
This
Tony Yu is one of those whom Peter wrote about of those who twist Paul's writings to their own destruction. 'as also in all his (Paul's) epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.' ( Peter 3:16) If the law (Torah) HAD been abolished, there would be no more penalty for sin, because sin is transgression of the law (Torah). 'Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law (Torah) : for sin is the transgression of the law.' (1 John 3:4) And we read further that the wages of sin is DEATH (written to believers in Messiah in Romans 6:23) Well, Tony Yu and others like him, will have an unpleasant surprise when they are standing before the Judgment Seat and hear ; 'Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.' (Matthew 7:23) The reason that people are so deceived is because of unconfessed sin in their lives. There is no other explanation for it.
Thanks David for this interesting topic. I strongly believe that this misconception of Christians are not obliged to keep Torah is because the replacement theology (the church replaces Israel) which has been implemented for centuries is the root cause. We are indeed blessed to be this generation where Israel is resurrected in 1948, and this absurd issue of replacement theology should & must be addressed.
Shalom.
i agree with everything you said but the part about isreal being resurrected i don't. you will know them by their fruits.
I speak about replacement theology to various family and Christian friends around me and they just deflect in avoid the topic. I live in Weirton West Virginia next to Pittsburgh
Very few theological traditions sprout from replacement theology. The majority of them, who deny Torah observance mind you, still say that the church is unified with the people of God.
My eyes shed streams of tears because Your law is not obeyed.
-- Psalms 119:136 --
Hebrews 7:26-28 NKJV - For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.
@@firstthessalonian6889Hebrews 10:16-17
For this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days says Yah I will put MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS AND IN THEIR MINDS WILL I WRITE THEM and their sins and inequities will I remember no more
I think Tony passed over Matthew 5 too fast. Sure, it says "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." THEN says "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." So is this Tony guy TRYING to be the least in heaven?
In my experience alot of people do that. I myself did it, I think on some level deep inside there is a part that sees that passage for what it truly is, therefore one has to run through it fast as a means to not truly deal with it.
My other aspect is not all prophecy has been fulfilled likewise the judgements and certain precepts have yet to happen which is law. The government aka great white thrown judgement and king judgements must happen . So has all been fulfilled
Paul DIDN'T KEEP the law? Hmmm, let's see if that's true. Acts 24:14- But this I confess to you, that according to the way which they call a sect, so I worship the GOD of my fathers, believing all things that are written in the LAW and the prophets. Or Acts 25:8- Neither against the LAW of the JEWS, nor against the TEMPLE, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all. Or Acts 18:21- I must by all means KEEP this coming FEAST in Jerusalem.... Or Romans 12:12- ... for not the hearers of the LAW are just in the sight of God, but the DOERS of the LAW Will be justified. Or Romans 3:31- Do we then make void the LAW through faith? CERTAINLY NOT! On the contrary, we ESTABLISH the LAW! Or Romans 6:16- Do you not know that to whom you present yourself slaves to obey, you are that whom you obey, weather of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Or Romans 7:12- Therefore the LAW is HOLY, and the COMMANDMENT HOLY and JUST and GOOD. Or Romans 7:22- FOR I DELIGHT IN THE LAW OF GOD according to the inward man. Hmmmm, either Paul is a really confused person, or someone is twisting scripture! Let's see what God says. Deuteronomy 13:3-4 ....you shall not listen to the words of that prophet .....for the Lord your God is testing you, to find out if you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall follow the LORD your GOD and fear Him; and you shall keep HIS COMMANDMENTS, listen to HIS VOICE, and serve HIM, and CLING to HIM! ....... So you see we are being tested! Seeds have been planted, and the seeds are the WORD of God. But the enemy came and sowed bad seed, which are tares, the Twisted word of God that Satan used to try to tempt Christ. They are allowed to grow together; but in the end, when Jesus comes back, HE will separate the Sheep from the goats. The sheep are the ones who listen and obey God's Torah; goats are the rebellious ones who hate God's word. JESUS IS GOD'S WORD! Matthew 5:19 whosoever shall teach others to break one of the least of these Commandments will be least in the Kingdom of Heaven, but whoever teaches and preaches these Commandments will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Yes!
It's not just that Christians should keep Torah, it's that they should want to.
David Wilber, if you see this maybe you could get in touch with Kent Hovind and ask him to debate you on the Sabbath or unclean meats.
Great debate, and it actually answered some of my millions of questions. Good job David! I am a new subscriber now.
im new to torah and can tell tony has acts 10 all twisted.
Did Yu really say that if you try to keep God’s law you are cursed? So is he saying that if you are lawless you will be blessed…. Obviously not….but I’m shocked. How does Yu understand how we should live…only what’s affirmed in the New Testament?
He must be big into kidnapping and beastiality, since both of those are forbidden by Torah, but not commanded in the New Testament.
If he doesn’t kidnap and have sex with animals, he is keeping commandments only found in Torah, and therefore, is under the Law and abed to hell (according to his own reckoning.)
If course, we should keep all of God’s commandments in the Law, and His grace is for when we fail. And our faith in Christ changes our hearts to better obey his commands.
Great job brother. From a Baptist Pastor to a follower of My Redeemer commandments.
Shalom
Could you share some more of your testimony with us?
Praise Yahweh!
I am not going to watch the video but rather I would like to answer the question in the title.
Torah means Instruction. There are many instructions in the world. Some are instructions on how to put your Ikea furniture together. If we are specifically referring to Heavenly Father instructions then the answer is Yes, we should keep Adonai's instructions.
If you can't follow the instructions exactly then you have a faulty piece of furniture. But someone who can and does follow all the instructions for you, builds it, then you already have that piece of furniture and you dont need to revert back the the instructions. Im learning here but that's a terrible analogy. With all due respect.
Written to Israel. Was conditional upon Israel obeying the law. Using Matt. , Jesus is speaking to Jews. And not realizing Jesus said Je fulfilled it all, means it is done.
Tony, NO....God didn't change the dietary law. Peter's vision had nothing to do with food. It had to do with Peter excepting gentiles as clean. But Tony thinks...oh, 10 years later after the cross God says hey, Peter you can eat a ham sandwich now. (SMH) Seems he never read the context of that entire chapter to see what is going on. And, we don't keep Torah for salvation. We keep it because we love our Father and want to obey him. It comes down to a heart matter. The best example of the Torah is a red light. When we drive, traffic lights keep us safe. If we drive through a red light we endanger our life and the lives of others. If you ran a red light and were judged and someone stepped in to take your punishment, you would be free of that punishment BUT that doesn't mean they would get rid of the traffic lights.
Charity Creech God will not condemn you for following the Jewish law ,nor will he condemn gentiles for what they eat.the main point is to be forgiven ,that comes from Jesus Christ,he will guide you as to what his will is for you.
@@kimhart8154 His will was written down, which is why He often said "it is written". He wanted to make it clear that what was written, was His will. He will guide you to what He has already written, and reveal to you that it is His will for you. It is not up to our interpretation of what we feel was put in our hearts. We need to read what was put into our hearts.
@@kimhart8154 According to Isaiah, Yah will indeed punish people who eat pig flesh, rats and the abomination. He said He will do this when He comes in flaming fire. He specifically talks about destroying people who are sanctifying themselves (setting themselves apart from the world) and purifying themselves (getting rid of sin) but who are also eating these unclean animals. He said he will do this at His coming.
When God said my people perish for lack of knowledge He meant it.
Matthew 15:10-11 Jesus called the crowd to Him and said, “Listen and understand. 11A man is not defiled by what enters his mouth, but by what comes out of it.”
@@dentoncarter8416 Read the whole context. The discussion is about eating without first ceremonially washing your hands. The Pharisees thought this made the food unclean.
He who speaks against the law of God is a false prophet
"To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word,they have no light of dawn." (Isaiah 8:20)
Great job David. Praise The LORD
Poor Tony 😔. We still love you sir, you tried and we appreciate your willingness. May יהוה bless you sir.
I actually think Tony brought a great case and won even though I favored and agreed more with David.
One of my favorite debates by David
He said the law was never the goal. But that’s exactly what rom 10:4 says. Jesus is the goal of the torah. Not the end
This is not true of Noah (talking to Tony Yu) God makes a distinction between clean and unclean animals when Noah is bringing animals into the Ark, this is simply not clearly defined in this part of Torah.
Right, had Noah and his family eaten of the 2x2 animals then we would be missing a lot of different animals in the animal kingdom. Eat one of the equine species, no horse now. Eat one canine species and so on. But of the clean, there were plenty.
there was only two (of the unclean animals)..and seven sets of the clean animals)....for sacrifice and eating)whilst in the ark....they were all kept to replenish the earth
Can't believe this was 5 years ago,
Tony doesn't even know the meaning of the word " under the Law". He thinks that being under the Law= obeying the Law. Lol 🤣😂
Lol true
Great job, David Wilbur. To know all the information is one thing, to be prepared to present it in this kind of format was skillful. Thank you for sharing. Have you been asked to debate anyone else?
-James
Tony says Torah, the instructions and laws of our Creator, are bondage! He hasn't read Psalm 119, the LONGEST chapter in the Bible. Or how about James 1:25- "perfect law of Liberty" or 1John 5:3- "His Commandments are not burdensome". You see in order somewhere with Tony is saying you have to believe God is terrible oh, and he changes his mind. I mean after all if he's God and he knows everything why did he give an impossible law for thousands upon thousands of years if he knew they couldn't keep it? Not only that, but he said if you follow it it's life and blessings to those who follow and curses to those who don't. All the people who came before the cross were destroyed by God for not keeping the law; but then He finally realizes His major error, people can't keep the law. In fact the law is just a curse?!!! Wow I sure hope someone goes back to apologize all those people destroyed in the flood, and Sodom and Gomorrah, ananias and Sapphira, oh wait that's the New Testament?! What happened to God's grace there?..... "Now the serpent was more subtle any beast of the field God had made. And he said unto the woman; 'has God said, You shall not eat of every tree of the garden?'... and the serpent said unto the woman, 'You shall not surely die!' (so Eve ate)....... Have you eaten from the tree that I COMMANDED you not to eat?.... What is this that you have done? And the woman said, 'the serpent BEGUILED me and I did eat'. ...False Christianity is based on Paul, TRUE Christianity is based on GOD!
Paul cannot nulify jesus
David Wilbert, with your opening statement alone ended this debate. Thank you and Shalom
ALL meats huh? Soooo do me a favor and eat a poison dart frog. Lol or go eat ANY toxic animal or bug. It's obvious there are stipulations on what is edible and what isnt. Thats jus using common sense.
Keeping the parts of the Torah that we can keep is NOT keeping the Torah. People that claim to be Torah Observant are fooling themselves. Here is what is wrong. Scriptures, like in John 14 and 15, “if you love Me then keep my Commandments” are NOT talking about the Torah, they ARE referring to the Ten Commandments. Jesus when asked what the Greatest Commandment was quoted Deuteronomy 6, love God and love your neighbor, just prior to this is Deuteronomy 5, the Ten Commandments!!! Hallelujah!!! Love God and love your neighbor summarizes the Ten Commandments. They were written in Stone by God Himself AND they were in the Ark of the Covenant. The Law was written by MOSES with God on PAPER, not STONE.
Jesus didn't say that if you love me you will follow ten of my commandments.
Yu, at the end, thank you for addressing how far removed from Yah’s best for us we have come. 🤦♀️ Prayers always to those blinded by truth🙏
Some Christians actually believe that if you even try follow all of God’s commandments you will go to Hell. This is what happens when you twist the word of God. The unpardonable sin is to follow God's ways??? The enemy must be loving how this deception is being accepted in the church.
so sad
For real though
The unpardonable sin is rejecting Jesus as the Christ
Tony lost in the first 3 minutes 🤦♂️ Was he listening to his own contradictions?
Does tony realize how already keeps 95% of torah that’s applicable to him?
great debate
Good job, David Wilbur. That could have gone on for days had the time not been so short. Paul is hard to understand because he is using the good and holy law lawfully to present what has always been true which is justification by faith. So many don't get it. Tony seems like a genuine man who believes what he is saying. I used to even think the way that he does so I truly understand where he is coming from. But he is in error, sadly. That was NEVER the purpose of the law. It is instructions for living His Way. How to love God and others. Humans over complicate things. The question is which kingdom do you walk in?
Thank You Tony. Great job.
In the parables of the lost sheep, lost coin, and prodigal son: Jesus teaches repentance. Jesus said that heaven is filled with joy when lost people repent. Why didn't Jesus say heaven rejoices when people receive salvation, or when they believe in their heart... John the Baptist, Jesus, and his followers taught repentance.
I dont think its a debate, Torah keeping is Gods will. Its not about what we want, its about becoming righteous because God is righteous. The bible states we left Torah because of our sin, so no Torah is like saying yes, lets stay in our sin... Gods calling people to keep Torah, its happening all over the world I hope you're one of the many who hears his call and repents, and if you missed it, seek him on where you need to heal your heart so you can hear him. We need to stop following our will and seek Gods.
While I do lean towards David's position, I'm going to give Tiny some credit here. The man is still passionate in defending the gospel and cares that the body of Messiah is kept safe. Even if he does not see things the exact same way we do.
But is he defending the gospel? Is it the same gospel? He's ultimately saying we're saved from our sin in order to be able to sin. He's saying there is no law. He's saying God cleansed all food and we (whether jew or gentile) can eat unclean animals...even though scripture clearly says that at His coming Yeshua will *destroy* those eating unclean animals. (Isaiah 66)
Doing away with the law is not something that keeps the sheep safe, it leads them into lawlessness which can cause them to fall away from the faith and be cast away (John 15)(1Corinthians 9:27)(Matthew 7:13-27). Many won't even realize they are rejected until judgement day according to Yeshua when He tells them they are being castaway because they are *lawless.* Tony's gospel (just believe, Jesus kept the law for you so you don't have to) doesn't protect the body of Messiah or keep it safe. The man of lawlessness has that title for a reason.
I feel genuinely sick for Tony Yu. He's being deceived and deceiving others.
Tony does see things the way we do. He just doesn't realize it. He says we are "saved" (meaning justified) by grace through faith. That is true. But he conflates matters of sanctification with those of justification. He does not seem to want to parse the two. That is part and parcel the big misunderstanding between Torah-observant people and those who are not.
THANK YOU TONY! JESUS COMPLETED THE LAW. OUR NEW BIRTH IS SPIRIT & THOSE WHO WORSHIPS GOD WORSHIP GOD IN SPIRIT & IN TRUTH. WE WALK IN THE SPIRIT SO WE DONT FULFILL THE LUST OF FLESH. THANK YOU JESUS FOR THE FINISH WORK! HALLELUIAH! ❤️
Question. What does walking in the Spirit look like?
Does it look like lawlessness? Or does it look like obediance to the law?
But the thing is what is spirit and truth ?
Psalm 119:142
Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness and your law is the truth
Romans Romans 7:14-16
For we know that the law is spiritual but I am carnal sold under sin.
For that which I do I allow not for what I would that do I not; but what I hate that do I.
If then I do that which I would not, I consent to the law THAT IT IS GOOD and Paul also said in
Romans 16:19
For your obedience is made abroad to all men I am glad therefore on your behalf but I would still make you wise to that which is GOOD and simple concerning evil
This was a very good debate. I love how Josh praised you both for sticking to the rules. You did and Tony did because in one way or another- we're rule keepers.
It's hard to hear the things he (Tony) said because of what we now know. He did a lot of twisting but he doesn't know it's twisted.
Great job Tony. The devil attacks faith on every front. Thank you for standing on it.
I am starting a Messianic radio station online can i use the audio from this?
Go for it! I'd just ask that on your program you invite folks to check out my website for my info on my perspective. davidwilber.me/
Woah... Tony lost the debate at his very first point. He completely left out the "till heaven and Earth pass away" part. He literally skipped it... So as to avoid saying that the law cannot pass until HEAVEN AND EARTH pass away and all be fulfilled. He instead said the law will not pass, and the heavens and Earth will not pass until all be fulfilled. So even in his interpretation, the law can't pass until after the heavens and Earth pass.
Are you keeping ALL the laws?
@@mightylove Justification vs Saintification.... this is a very important distinction I feel many on both side miss.
The law was never given as a mean for Justification. And that was Paul's main argument, but in regards to Saintification, Paul tells us to keep it. Not that we will keep it perfectly but that is what we aim for, knowing that God's grace will take care of where we mess up.
Mr. Yu should do a scripture review of the following words:
º FOREVER
º GENERATIONS
º IF
Next, I would suggest that he figure out WHO is GRAFTED into WHOM. IMO, Mr. Yu is to be avoided
I used to follow the Christian tradition until one day I read in Revelations: "Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring-those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus." A couple of chapters later, I read :This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus." Where to church people get their teaching on how to behave? Not from the Bible; they get it by looking around and seeing what other people in the church are doing. But, shall we follow God or men?
I think this issue stands or fall by our understanding of the new covenant. If the new covenant is 'new' and not an 'improvement' of the previous covenant, than I would argue that the old mosaic law also fell away with the old covenant.
Also, if we are not under the law but have to keep the law, according to David, than he is saying that we should keep it and that there will be no punishment for not keeping it - this does not make it a law then.
The new covenant is indeed new but that doesn't mean the new covenant doesn't have any of the same elements. (same God, same people, same laws) God said of the new covenant that He would write His (God's) laws in our hearts and then put His Spirit inside of us and cause us to walk them (His laws) out. God's laws would no longer be written externally on stone tablets but on the fleshly tablets of our hearts. The new covenant is new and better because He has given us His Spirit and put His laws inside of us instead of outside of us. The new covenant was sealed with different blood, the blood of the actual lamb of God. These are better promises. Yeshua is an eternal sacrifice and an eternal priest. This is all new and better. We enter into God's covenant through faith in Yeshua. He then puts His Spirit in us and causes us to walk out His commandments. If we fail, we have an advocate, Yeshua. If we confess our sins (transgressions of His law), then He is faithful and just to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. *But what if Satan convinces us there is no law, that we can do what is right in our own eyes?* We will be picking and choosing which laws we decide are still valid...but it's not up to us. The man of lawlessness is called that for a reason. The saints are defined as those who: keep the commandments of God AND faith in Jesus (Revelation 14).
We are so close to the end that people think Satan is deceiving us into OBEYING God's commandments! Yeah, that's what Satan wants....for us to obey God's commandments.
Addressing Peter: In Acts 10:9-16, Peter was informed by God through a vision that he was not to reject the use of certain animals for food on a religious basis. The apostle Paul also writes, “For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer” (1 Timothy 4:4).
Wow!! The sarcasm of the comments is hilarious. Great job David and keep up the good work. I have just stumbled across your channel and am pleased to hear some of these excellent teachings. By the way, does anyone ever read Steven's accusation in Acts 6:13? Why was it considered a false accusation for him to speak against the law??? I just don't get some peoples' logic.
Shalom brother...can you clarify what you are asking....
Are you asking whether Stephen gave false testimony
Are you asking if he was accused of giving false testimony....
I believe what we can read from the text..Acts 6:9-14...is that some religious leaders were setting up an opportunity to being false judgement against Stephen for proclaiming that Yeshua will change the laws given to the people of Israel by YHWH through Moses
Then in Acts 7:1, the High Priest asks Stephen to reply to the accusation and give a defense....if it be so...
We then have the most amazing monologue Acts 7:2-53 where Stephen replies by summarily reciting from the Torah so as to say to them by His testimony, that not one detail of Torah will he come against ....truly inspired by YHWH
Shalom
@@kyritsitonakis5802 I have a question
David proved once again that salvation doesn't come by keeping the law; but not matter how many times he says it; his opponents keeps coming back to it over and over; Its because its all they have. Good job David, got your book on the Sabbath
After watching Yu I forgot how ignorant of the Bible I was before studying Hebraic Roots. Thanks for this debate, if not for the Hebraic Roots I’d still be as un knowledgeable as Yu in the scriptures. Sorry Yu.
Great job David. Well said!! Keep up the good work!!
I think A LOT of people in the comments misunderstood everything Tony was saying. And David’s rebuttals took what tony was saying out of context. I’ve always had a bad feeling about the hrm. They seem to contradict themselves a lot. One more thing I’ll note, and I think it’s huge. Jesus said that He sent the Holy Spirit to reveal truth and be put interpreter. I noticed David almost always quoted a scholar for his rebuttals, But Tony Only used scripture. To me that’s very important.
Tony did not quote scripture correctly, he added words especially in that last segment. David also said to argue against HRM (which I don’t follow) is not the point of the debate. This was a debate of keeping Torah or not. David quoted scholars to help explain the scriptures. I’ve recently started using a concordance in my Bible study and having that context of the original words in Hebrew makes a difference in understanding. Why was Bathsheba bathing on a roof? Well because that’s where baths were at that time. What did it mean to enter a covenant well if you use your concordance the reason God was speaking to a sleeping man makes sense… why he was sleeping makes sense… so the scholars quotes while always accompanied by scripture were meant to bring understanding of a world none of us ever lived in and most never studied.
Tony Yu quotes Mishna and added words to Torah. Nowhere does it say “cookware “ and accusing your opponent of wanting to fill his fleshly lusts? Nope. By belief in the Redeemer, we prove our belief in good works whereby all the Torah hangs on YAHUSHUA’s 1st & 2nd greatest summary of the commands (instruction). There was never a statement made, except by “Yu” saying that one is saved by the law. Contrarywise, belief without works is dead. To me, those who think they can just believe the Redeemer died for their sins, and then they can go fornicate, swear, cheat, lie, steal, covet, be drunkards, gluttonous , idolize (do you love movies, video games, sports and celebrities?) and who knows what else - are drinking the poison cup of disobedience in order to live in the flesh instead of walk in the Spirit (Gal. 5:20-25). Revelation (Hazon) is clear on this.
Sabbath (7th day ) is not a shadow it points back to creation
Honestly, once keeping God's laws was compared to poison, it was hard to hear him out past there.
Mr Wilber, I am talking to my Christian friends about Torah keeping, trying to point then to the truth and goodness of keeping the Law of God. I'm trying to learn how to well present what the Bible says about it, and explain their seeming "proof texts" from a Messianic Jewish point of view. What good sources would you suggest? Also, thank you for the debate , and for speaking the Truth! I did learn a lot from watching you debate
A great resource is J.K. McKee's book, "The New Testament Validates Torah." Also Tim Hegg's book, "Why We Keep Torah: 10 Persistent Questions." Hope those help!
The sad thing about the 2nd guy’s arguments is that he sees the “Law” of GOD as being against us. But it says that the Law is Just ,is right, is perfect, is Holy. The Hebrew word Torah means teachings on how to live righteously. Teaching us how to do and be. But what was against us is the “punishment “ of going outside these laws. Which punishment was taken away by Messiah paying the price for us, for all who believe. Also if we Love Him , we will keep his commandments. It will not be a burden for us, but a joy because those “Laws” are now written on our hearts. They are part of us and not an issue at all. So based on a false premise, the 2nd guy’s whole argument is false !
Which laws are you referring to that Christians are to keep?
Are you also including the trimming of hair/beards, touching unclean things/people, stoning adulterers/thieves?
The Bible makes it clear that “the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit” (Romans 14:17).
How do you gel that with other scriptures? If the God of Abraham doesn’t change, and is always true, why did Torah even exist?
The Bible says, “For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit” (2 Peter 1:21).
both sides had good arguments. i really don’t know what to believe. i’ve prayed about it but it feels like i get no answer
Don't just pray. Pray and read the scriptures. Listen to the books of the Bible in audio and many chapters at a time to get the context. Too many Christians simply pluck out a verse here or there, that seems to agree with their position. No, listen and read chapters at a time u til a complete instruction is given. Also study LAW in the Bible and see how it is good. Confusion cimes because many Christians don't ynderstand that when a Pharisee said LAW, he meant the Oral Law - the Babylonian Talmud, which comes from their fathers. Also Under the Law is under the condemnation of the Law. How in earth would Yeshua come to redeem mankind from the judgement of sin and death because ALL broke God's commands, decrees and instruction so were condemned to death, to then turn around an nail the Righteous standard for living in a manner that demonstrates love to God and mankind, onto the Cross. It is illogical. It is by the Law that all are condemned. Jer 31:31-34, Hebrews 8 - the LAW which is good, will be written on our hearts by His Spirit. How is that done away with? When did God give Christianity the authority to pick and choose what to obey of His commands? Both Jew and nin-Jew have to be re-grafted and grafted into the Olive Tree. the covenant, the walk of faith and obedience that Abraham had. Matthew 5 demonstrates that God's holy Law given to Israel was to teach all nations how to do what is right in God's eyes, not our own. His definitions for good, righteous, holy, food etc etc Shema: To love God with all our hearts, souks and minds and to love others as we love ourselves. That's why the Law was given. Left to ourselves, mankind redefines thise meanings to suit our own self interest. Peace.
I'm bias now since coming to the Truth of Torah therefore I can't make the call... but Wilbur wins!
David!!! Wonderful job! Way to go on the time too. Talk about PREPARATION! Great video.
Tony did his best... it's just that David was on the side of Truth here.
I agree David Wilbur did his homework. Tony, applied his understanding, his interpretation, to scripture rather than studying to understand scripture. David Wilbur, if you see this maybe you could get in touch with Kent Hovind and ask him to debate you on this topic in general or specifically on the Sabbath or unclean meats.
I keep Torah as well, but I’m very new to it and have been wrestling with keeping it vs. not and what was the will of the Most High… but there was not wrestling with who won this debate. Def a W for David
I'm convinced people who say the Law has been done away with, never read the laws. They are very good laws. The first time I read through them, with clearer understanding, I decided to follow them.
Lets use 2 laws for example, one law says, "Children don't strike your parents", another law says, "Don't take advantage of widows". So you're telling me, since the law has been done away with, I can strike my parents, and take advantage of widows? Again, I don't think Christians have even read them.
Is eating bacon and getting tattoos really that important?
Winner, Mr. Yu. Thank you for your service
how may i ask ?
You took that as a win?
It doesn’t sound like Tony is listening or debating, but rather preaching
Good job tony
Dang. So I guess I gotta get circumcised now
If yeshua ever spoke against law he was sinning according to God he never sinned also priests would have had a legitimate reason to kill him no false witnesses needed
Yep, same goes for Stephen and Paul after Him. That's the sad irony of the usual christian interpretation of the NT
Is the Torah observant man wearing mixed fabrics? I have not met anyone who advocates mosaic law keeping who truly tries to keep all the Law, including not wearing mixed fabrics, keeping the feast of booths, etc. This is a great debate though. Very excited to be watching it!
Mixed thread was cotton & wool. That was reserved for the High Priest. Context. It was Holy. Just as no man was to make up the Temple incense. Be blessed.
@@barryblackwood6050 Matthew 12:3-8 NKJV - But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: “how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? “Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? “Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple. “But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. “For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”
@@firstthessalonian6889we need to keep the sabbath because it is important to YAH and how we can show that we love him
isaiah 58:13-14
If you turn away your foot from the sabbath from doing your pleasure on my holy day and call the sabbath a delight the holy of the LORD honourable and shall honour him not doing your own ways nor finding your own pleasure nor speaking your own words
Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD and I will cause you to ride upon the high places of the earth and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it. Moreover just because Jesus is lord of the Sabbath doesn't mean he changed it in fact he told the disciples to pray that they might keep it
Matthew 24:20
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day
Jesus said " If you love me, you will KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS." On that basis, I wonder if Tony Yu can say that he loves Jesus.
Tony Yu is a sharp guy, very astute, and very persuasive. Thanks for debating him.
Adam Clarke Commentary:
Verse Hebrews 7:12. The priesthood being changed - That is, The order of Aaron being now abrogated, to make way for that which had preceded it, the order of Melchisedec.
There is made of necessity a change also of the law. - The very essence of the Levitical law consisting in its sacrificial offerings; and as these could not confer perfection, could not reconcile God to man, purify the unholy heart, nor open the kingdom of heaven to the souls of men, consequently, it must be abolished, according to the order of God himself; for he said, Sacrifice and offering, and burnt-offering, and sacrifice for sin, he would not; see Psalms 40:6; Psalms 40:7, compared with Hebrews 10:5-10, and with Psalms 110:4, where it is evident God designed to change both the law and the priesthood, and to introduce Jesus as the only Priest and Sacrifice, and to substitute the Gospel system for that of the Levitical institutions. The priesthood, therefore, being changed, Jesus coming in the place of Aaron, the law of ordinances and ceremonies, which served only to point out the Messiah, must of necessity be changed also.
This just makes me so much happier to be truly in Messiah and keeping His Torah... It means that I don't have a mind that twists the scriptures so much to say that keeping God's Holy Law takes you to hell... Thank you Yah for saving me from the influence of this antichrist reading of Scripture.
I am a Torah observant Christian, I will tell you no the law will not save, BUT the law is the created by God so that we remember what he hates so we don't condemn ourselves, this isn't just the 10 commandments but this also includes the levitical dietary kosher laws. There is food you can and cannot eat, you can have chicken, turkey, beef, venison, and fish as long as they have fins AND scales, the butcher also has to be a butcher that practices the kosher techniques of producing meat. You cant eat a cheese burger because that's mixing meat and dairy, and you cannot eat certain hamburger helper meals that require milk mixed in with ground beef, I have no idea where "all 613 laws" comment comes from anyways because not all of us are farmers, warriors, mother's, young children, nor priests, men cannot follow laws of women and vise versa so you're really not following all 613
Tony Yu should have continued reading from Jeramiah. He would have seen:" But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD. I will put My law in their minds and inscribe it on their hearts." So, he doesn't annul the law but instead writes it in a different place.
I wonder what Ezekiel chapters 40 and on, discussing the millennial reign and the Levites, shabbat, sacrifices, new moons, feasts play into Tony's argument. I'm also curious why this is never mentioned in these debates both public and private.
I bring that up in conversations. Usually the response is silence.
People that are from the A-millennial group, tend to make it super allegorical. Anyone else gets agisn super silent.
What do you think about this will occur during the millennial reign but not beyond ?
@@timomarieshely God made an eternal covenant with the Levites. The Levites will sacrifice during the millennium and it seems on into eternity in the new earth (scriptures below)....but the sacrifices _do_ change. From the Mosaic sacrifices to the millennial sacrifices to the eternal sacrifices there are changes in each age.
In the millennial kingdom there will be sacrifices, including sin sacrifices (which I know can sound odd)(Ezekiel 40-46). Those sin sacrifices do not remove sin (they never did in the past and they will not in the future). Remember, where there is forgiveness of sin, there is no more sacrifice....people who have been in the resurrection/rapture who have new sinless bodies are already in the new covenant and already have our actual sin removing sacrifice, Yeshua who is also our High Priest). Those entering into the millennial kingdom in their sinful flesh (their sin has not been forgiven yet) will have sin sacrifices performed. Again, those sacrifices do not save/actually remove sin but they point to Christ and also seem to have something to do with purification while God is here on this earth in our midst. I'm still studying this deep topic. We'll see more clearly then.
In the New Heaven and New Earth (which is the home of righteousness) there is no longer any sin. No sin, no death. Those sin sacrifices cease. But does the Levitical priesthood cease once the new earth (eternal age) comes?
Look at this fascinating passage.
Jeremiah 33:14-22
‘Behold, the days are coming,’ says the LORD, ‘that I will perform that good thing which I have promised to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah: ‘In those days and at that time I will cause to grow up to David A Branch of righteousness; He shall execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. In those days Judah will be saved, And Jerusalem will dwell safely. And this is the name by which she will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS’ “For thus says the LORD: ‘David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel; *nor* shall the priests, the Levites, lack a man to offer burnt offerings before Me, to kindle grain offerings, and to sacrifice continually.’ ” And the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying, “Thus says the LORD: ‘If you can break My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night, so that there will not be day and night in their season, then My covenant may also be broken with David My servant, so that he shall not have a son to reign on his throne, *and* with the Levites, the priests, My ministers. As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured, so will I multiply the descendants of David My servant *and* the Levites who minister to Me.’ ”
Still studying all of this. God bless us.
Yes. From The Heart!
YAH tells us this Over And Over......
ECC 12 13
When all has been heard, the conclusion of the matter is this: Fear God and keep His commandments, because this is the whole duty of man.
1 tim 1:5
Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure HEART, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,
Duet 30 10
if you obey the LORD your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Torah/Law and turn to the LORD your God with all your HEART and with all your soul.
Proverbs 3 3
Let know loving commitment ant TRUTH forsake you-bind them around your neck, write them on the tablet of your HEART.
2 cor 3 3
And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human HEARTS.
Ezekiel 11 19-20
And I will give them one HEART, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the HEART of stone from their flesh and give them a HEART of flesh, that they may walk in "my statutes" and keep my rules and obey them. And they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Jer 31 33
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my TORAH within them, and I will write it on their HEARTS. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people
Hebrews 10 16
This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my TORAH/ law in their HEARTS, and I will write them on their minds.”
Daniel 7 28
Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my HEART
Isaiah 56 6-7
And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to minister to him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be his servants, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant-
these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
~Now you.can understand~
Rev 12-17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ”
Ditto brother
I left Christianity years ago. I don't have a religion. I have a personal relationship with the most high and his son.
I can't believe at the end of this debate Tony did not read Galatians correctly. He put law in where it was not supposed to go
Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Tony please don't misquote scripture to get your point across. I hope you did that by mistake
Paul prophesied teachers like Tony in 2 Timothy 4:3-4.
For anyone who’s struggling with this, like I was for months, I suggest backing away from stuff like this, and man’s interpretation. We have been handed down a lens to see scripture through. In order to see it for what it really says, you have to take away the lens you look through and put your hands up to God asking him to lead you. And just read the Word as if you’ve never heard a thing about it. Also, remember that one phrase can have multiple meanings…context is essential. I made a board of scripture and planned on putting verses up on one side for Torah and the other for no torah. And I studied for myself. On the ones I was stumped on, then I cautiously looked for someone’s interpretation. I ended up with all of it on one side only. Once it clicked for me, it all made sense as a whole. Acts 15:19-21 is the one that made the shift for me.
Replacement theology. (Not the kind that makes the church replace Israel)
churchianity, Belief that faith in Jesus makes you without sin.
Bible, our actions make us without sin. 1 Jo 3:4-10
They take verses out of context, he kept repeating Matt 5:18, and missed a key word.
*ALL* is fulfilled.
Has *ALL* been fulfilled?
Romans 3:31
Do we then abolish the law by faith?
CERTAINLY NOT.