"I want you to turn on Melee right now and do this combo" Dude it's like midnight for me right now. How did you know it was the perfect time to play Melee
The people will never know how hard it was to make a video like this. Took like 2 full days just to write the script only. Maybe like 3 other people in the world would have been able to explain how to combo in 7 minutes. Little kids have it so easy these days. Back in my day.... /ego
+SSBM Tutorials This is an amazing video? Any chance of something similar for captain falcon? I really like the way you present this, breaking down comboing like this makes it seem so much more doable for newer players like me!
donovan weekley I recently did a scene in my theatre class of the entire exchange between the Bridgekeeper and the knights; whole mess of fun that one was.
Between the falco videos on this channel and squids guide you guys have made it so fun to learn falco. This one in particular and squids guide are probably the two best guides in melee ever created IMO. Thanks for the hard work.
+OfficialThatGuy He still likes Falco versus Leffen and Mew2King, but Leffen can't attend most tournament, and Mew2King hasn't been playing at his best, while Armada and HBox are the biggest threats right now, and he feels like Fox and Marth have a better chance against them.
+kered13 Leffens at eglx, his visa issues got solved. We probably will see him in the upcoming tournaments. And he used falco at Summit vs Armada the whole set. He said and quote: "I was feeling the Falco at practice", and he used it in the actual match.
damn im always coming back to this video. yes that's pathetic that i just havent memorized it but i just forget stuff there is a lot here. thanks dudes.
+Sanic for event 50... ganon upsmash or yoshi down air both do ridiculous hp damage. ganon's up smash can hit the base part of the glove when the hands are in neutral position
+SSBM Tutorials another question actually (sorry, new to the melee competitive scene) is it a bad habit for me to pretty much only use tap jump with the exception to wave dashing and shine canceling? should I try to get used to pressing x or y?
The parts about waveshining depending on which side the shine hits on, and the weak vs. strong followups were actually incredibly helpful. Thanks! Falco wins slightly on FD, but it's even to Fox's favor on every other stage.
Mike McG Fox can still get them to 50-60% on every other stage, so it's not that different. On the other hand, Fox can't use platforms to avoid lasers on FD.
I gotta go with fox. Once you can get around falco lasers effectively, Fox creams him in neutral game. Falco has an easier time in the matchup but if fox knows how to punish, i think its kinda 60/40
I think he beats fox at any level other than High or Top. At those higher levels, it SEEMS like its either even or slightly in Fox's favour, but that's just my observation as a low level player.
KuiNoah not true. He dropped falco because the falco metagame shifts in a direction where he needed to play falcon in a way he doesnt want to an he hopes the meta shifts bach. Watch his VOD one more time ;)
I think the question in the end was a really good one. Do more MU stuff, maybe like Falcon - Sheik, can the 20GX beat their demon? Or other controversial MUs like Falco - Peach, Falco - Icies, Pika - Marth etc.
Fox may have better matchups overall, but Falco beats Fox by a slight but significant margin. Falco has more reach on his moves (sans his Shine,) and Falco can punish Fox with his combo game harder than any other character.
@@actually_well_ but in response to the actual mu, fox wins because he has a lot of guaranteed true combos on falco, whereas falco doesn't have the same against fox. Fox can kill falco at any percent, combo at any percent, gimps etc. etc. better tools in the neutral (arguably) the MU is probably 60-40 or 65-35 for fox
I realize it's not directly a Melee tutorial, but what about a video about how to find what specifications in controllers are better/fit you? I know I hear a lot about silvers being amazing, stiff and loose analog sticks/triggers, etc.
+CheeseManFuu The controller barely matters, all you need is something that can shield drop. Put enough hours into your controller and it will become a "good" controller
I love Falco. He’s so much fun to combo with. His down air is so lovely, and his shine throws people up. It’s great. I just wish his up B was stronger.
@@joecastaneda6195 He already is the best character in the game without fox's up B. Falco players just cant stand their character having a single part of hit kit that isn't the best in the game
@@yurplethepurple2064 I mean everything except movespeed upsmash upair upb and throws. Even Falco shine is better 99.9% of times, getting shield poked by a fox shine loses you neutral and stage position unless they're Hax$. Getting shield stabbed by Johnnyfalco2007 leads to a 80%+ combo because Falco's the easiest character in the game to combo with
I'd say it's even. People say like "just powershield lasers" and Fox wins. But I haven't seen much consistency of that, and even if you do, you get like 1% and a good projectile to cover your approach. And Falcos will obviously adapt to it, learning how to deal with laser coming back at him. There is also the mute/fake laser, or whatever it called, where you do it so low it doesn't come out, could be used as a mind game since some players try to react to the sound, and then making them shield unnecessarily. I also think that Falcos punish-game is a lot easier and cleaner than Foxs, and that Foxs requires more precision to really like 0-death Falco, while Falcos is more true and have more variations. Falco also have more range on his moves than Fox, and an AC B-air which is really safe, and also is heavier, meaning better CC. So y, I think it's pretty much even. Falco probably wins the MU at non-top level, but at top level it's pretty much even.
How do I know if I hit the right or left side of fox? do you mean the direction foxes nose is pointing?? sorry, if this is a dumb question but I need some clarification about knowing which direction to wavedash.
+RUclips Account Mango said that falco wins. He based this on the fact that he started winning with falco more. He's not the person whose opinion you should look for.
it's an even matchup,they both have an insane punish game on each other if Falco gets a shine combo it can lead to death and if fox gets a grab it can also be fatal
+Tyler Wills that's pretty short sighted. Falcon could just as easily power shield back or laser cancel as a mix up. Falco's laser will always be an objective advantage
+Not Thomas It's harder to powershield the lasers back as falco because the sound is not there. When you shoot a laser, it isn't as much of an advantage as it's made out to be (unless sound is turned off) because the SOUND is easier to react to than visual cue. Lasers simply aren't as dominant in the meta as before, and powershield laser is becoming more prominent and common.
+M16U1_D4_5CHKRU8 power shielding has an audio cue as well, so what's stopping falco players from anticipating that. The meta is shifting, but that's simply because fox is the most concentrated character in terms of the meta being pushed. Once falco players adapt, however long that takes, it will again place favor on falco
ive been starting off my neutral game combos with either running in laser crouch cancel down tilt or if theyre a decent percent just simply a dash attack normally followed up by sideB uptilt or nair. but with floaties especially peach full jumping ontop of them and shine just to stall in mid air when im close enough they throw out a down smash then dair/nairing
+iNSOMNIACssbm Jesus, just powershield. People are dumb if they complain about lasers but don't do shit to prepare against them. It's really not that hard, combined practice that I put in for powershielding is probably just a few hours, and I can do it pretty consistently at this point, in and out of tournament. Aside from lasers, Falco has slightly larger hitboxes for the neutral, but Fox's superior APM beats that out in my opinion.
What about when the other person DIs in over you? After dair > shine, and they DI inward over your head, it breaks the combo every time. How do you deal or react to this?
+IcicleTFL IT doesn't break the combo, you can either wavedash down or do a short wavedash to be able to get there easier but you can get there in time almost no matter what. Most likely you are not doing the moves very slow
Max B. Bowser is actually somewhat floaty I think. He's kinda...middle tier. His weight is insane obviously but he doesn't fall as fast as roy. Maybe he's only a couple down from roy on the fastfall tier list? lol idk.
Can anyone explain me how i can get 20xx on a GameCube. My wii doesn't read discs anymore, so my GC is my only option. I do not want to mod/change my GC, so please keep that in mind.
Depends on certain situations. In PAL, Falco dominates even at the highest play due to less kill power with Fox. NTSC the line is blurred a fair bit. Depends on the player, West for example. On a technical perspective Fox wins at top level, any lower I feel it's even.
+TheMagicalBean that has more to do with neutral game than combo-ing tbh. I would watch our video "6 Ways to beat Falco lasers" and then avoid the techniques we describe there
How do you do a delayed SHFFL dair without C-stick? With c-stick it seems quite easy but that requires the "claw" grip which I don't like. But doing it with the A button and analogue stick seems really hard, the dair barely comes out at all
If it's easy for you with the c-stick, then why would you want to do it without? Anyway, just short hop, and at the very last second press down and A. As long as the dair comes out that's all that matters since you're L-cancelling into shine anyway
SSBM Tutorials Because I can only comfortably do it with the C-stick if I play "claw-style", which I personally don't like using for everything else. Thanks for the response.
I would use the C stick. Jump and immediately move your thumb to the c stick. Then fastfall and press down on the c stick right after. You can L cancel and fastfall without having to press any other buttons so you still have time to reach it. Then go back to the B button. it may seem hard at first but eventually your hands will get used to the speed
SSBM Tutorials After trying it, I think that's what I'll do. I assumed it wouldn't be feasible but you are correct, there is enough time to do it that way. It'll just take some practice. Thanks :)
does anyone know if the pros use tap jump to jump out of shine or x/y? what's recommended for a newbie? tap jump seems easier imo but what do I know \(x.x)/
How to combo Floaties with Falco? Peach, Puff? And mid speed? Marth Sheik. Characters you shouldn't over extend against? Samus, Luigi. All of these would be very useful to know
To combo floaties, after the initial shine, double jump over them and fall with a dair. then uptilt don't over extend vs anyone. over-extending implies you went too far
thats either because they are super high percent or they are DI-ing off of the edge of the platform. Aim your dair so that they have to go more towards the center of the platform if possible
People are gonna hate me for saying that Fox's combos are just as good as Falco's, but it's so true. Up air, Up smash, Up throw, and tech chasing is all you need, and you WILL 0-death Falco if you execute correctly, whereas with Falco most of his combos are 50/50 DI mix ups that aren't guaranteed. Once you get Falco to percents where up air stops giving you follow ups, just bair/shine them offstage and get a free edge guard. Boom. 0-death. In the neutral all you have to do against Falco is powershield (it's not that hard guys) and then use your superior APM to beat him out. Fox obviously has the edge (kek) when edge guarding, he has just as good (if not better) combo game, and arguably better neutral game. All this comes from a Fox main who gets very little practice against Falco and tends to perform quite poorly against them. I am personally mediocre in the MU, but at least I can realize that it's my fault and not just a favorable MU for Falco. In short, Fox wins.
honestly a lot of what u said is true. to win matches falco has to outplay fox whereas fox can steal games from falco he doesn't deserve through gimps and shit. Falco has to work harder to win the matchup but i do think it's an even matchup still.
Can you please make a how to combo with falco against floaties video? I know these videos take a while, so take as much time as you need, but I am really bad at comboing floaties. Thanks!
Kira, I was wondering how you avoid entering "auto-pilot" mode and letting your brain shut off during sets. Do you have any advice for some way of doing that?
+Alex Sperandio Sometimes it's better to do that tbh. Lets you react faster. You can't think about every tiny decision in this game, it's just not possible. Otherwise pick a specific situation and tell yourself what you will change next time you get in it
Fox and Falco are very even and it's hard to chose who would win. Falco definitely wins neutral but Fox also has heavy punish game on Falco and also has chain grabs at low % so I can't chose as it's all about how the game plays out.
you keep saying "if they guess their DI" or "if you predict correctly." I mean, there are essentially three di options, so are most combos dropped if you guess wrong? will most people only di one way for a bit? iirc westballz said it doesnt matter where they di, is this true? thanks so much for the vids. practice every day and this really helps me specifically target things in my practice.
also at 4:15 you say use weak hits to continue combo for switch to di in. was that not a strong nair, and not weak? or do you mean moves that are not smash attack or backair. sooorrrrrry
Well you can follow up on any DI but sometimes you do have to guess correctly. You can manipulate their DI by mixing up which side you shine them on as well, often times you can get long combos going either way.
Shine > Wavedash is a waveshine, so yes, they are the same. I think they say Shine > Wavedash so that it's a little easier to understand for those who don't know as much Melee terminology.
I noticed that if u been using down air lately ( causes Stale-Move Negation) you can do one more down air shine, before it is tech able, if u start pillaring on 0 % :)
+SSBM Tutorials so against fox, I get some decent mileage from using fullhop dair oos at 0% instead of wavedash oos. is this a viable alternative or do the people I play with just have bad DI or something?
+Tony Abbott First if you say "oos" many people will think you are saying "out of shield". Second fullhop dair can work but why do it when waveshine covers everything and fullhop dair does not cover everything
It's hard for us to straight up say Fox or Falco because you see some Falcos go off against some foxes, but, overall, the match-up is 52-48 for Fox. He probably wins due to having a more reliable kill set up in edge guarding. Kira you should tell us what you think for some of these polls!
+ColdFridge1 not actually injured.. Just need to catch up on the meta with the new westballz soda can tech. So you can keep your statistics, I prefer the magic.
i think fox vs falco is slightly favored in falco's favor at all stages of play - when a falco like westballz is playing on point, i think he gets way more off an opening in neutral on average compared to a top fox.
"I want you to turn on Melee right now and do this combo"
Dude it's like midnight for me right now.
How did you know it was the perfect time to play Melee
+Chugga Chugga Choo Choo
Kira with the hard reads lol
Bruh it's 5am no time for melee
There are no brakes on the Melee Train friend >:]
i read your comment at 12:07am
those are prime melee hours
The people will never know how hard it was to make a video like this. Took like 2 full days just to write the script only. Maybe like 3 other people in the world would have been able to explain how to combo in 7 minutes.
Little kids have it so easy these days. Back in my day....
/ego
thanks for the content!
+SSBM Tutorials This is an amazing video? Any chance of something similar for captain falcon? I really like the way you present this, breaking down comboing like this makes it seem so much more doable for newer players like me!
Thanks for the video!
+RaidsEpicly We're doing every video for every character, everyone pls stop asking =(
+SSBM Tutorials For the tournament, is there an age limit?
well that depends is it an African falco? or a European falco?
I can appreciate this comment.
+jakenator13 I, I... I don't know that!
That depends. What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen Falco?
donovan weekley I recently did a scene in my theatre class of the entire exchange between the Bridgekeeper and the knights; whole mess of fun that one was.
In order for falco's to maintain air velocity they must shine 43 times per second.
Between the falco videos on this channel and squids guide you guys have made it so fun to learn falco. This one in particular and squids guide are probably the two best guides in melee ever created IMO. Thanks for the hard work.
Who wins in Fox vs. Falco? Yes.
+WondrousMoose lol I like that xD
YES wins? So Falcon?
WondrousMoose who wins in fox vs falco? X=12
Personally, I prefer the air
Is that a reference to something?
@@johnnycrash4892 yes, it's a reference to the critically acclaimed game called Hogan's Castle
@@ashersmasher2313 really?
@@johnnycrash4892 no lol. It's a Falco quote. I thought my sarcasm was pretty obvious
*Personally, Ai prefer di er*
THANK YOU. finally a guide that doesnt just show off combos, but also tells me where i should start when learning them.
True
Mango is going to make 50 accounts to have 25 say fox and 25 say falco
Mango dropped Falco.
+OfficialThatGuy he also says his falco is going to make a huge comeback!
+OfficialThatGuy He still likes Falco versus Leffen and Mew2King, but Leffen can't attend most tournament, and Mew2King hasn't been playing at his best, while Armada and HBox are the biggest threats right now, and he feels like Fox and Marth have a better chance against them.
+kered13 Leffens at eglx, his visa issues got solved. We probably will see him in the upcoming tournaments. And he used falco at Summit vs Armada the whole set. He said and quote: "I was feeling the Falco at practice", and he used it in the actual match.
EGLX is in Canada, he visa issues only affect the US.
Shine sound in slow motion sounds sweet, well every hit in slow motion sounds sweet. It reminds me of basketball for some reason.
Falco comprees the mishun better than fox
took me a second
damn im always coming back to this video. yes that's pathetic that i just havent memorized it but i just forget stuff there is a lot here. thanks dudes.
its very difficult and requires a lot of practice. good luck!
This is EXACTLY what I was looking for!
Whichever one of the spacies mango is playing at the time
Best tutorial yet Kira! This video really helped me understand how to harness the power of falco's combos. :)
I can't believe you made a tutorial on cheating.
@@Pickleknotts either that or he was memeing bro
@@Nick-ex8wm it's obvious irony
I cant believe 39 people actually thought OP was serious
Your video helps me a lot in playing Melee. I'm not going to lie but you're my best channel of learning to play Melee better
What is an easy way to beat event 50 and 51 so I can get FD?
+Sanic Hedgehog I used marth for event 51, it was pretty ok. Just know you're gonna have to reset a good few times
+Sanic Hedgehog 51 what I did as a kid was pick Puff and Side B > Rest against Giga bowser until he died
Jltn Puff sounds like such a good idea. Wish I thought of that before.
+Sanic for event 50...
ganon upsmash or yoshi down air both do ridiculous hp damage. ganon's up smash can hit the base part of the glove when the hands are in neutral position
+Sanic Hedgehog For event 51, spam lasers with Fox. The AI shields it if it's a good distance away from you.
the pause and shine sound are so good in slow mo
should I press y to get out of shine, or x?
Doesn't matter, all personal preference
+SSBM Tutorials thanks!
+SSBM Tutorials another question actually (sorry, new to the melee competitive scene) is it a bad habit for me to pretty much only use tap jump with the exception to wave dashing and shine canceling? should I try to get used to pressing x or y?
no
+SSBM Tutorials thanks again! and thanks for these great vids!
The parts about waveshining depending on which side the shine hits on, and the weak vs. strong followups were actually incredibly helpful. Thanks!
Falco wins slightly on FD, but it's even to Fox's favor on every other stage.
+FishamanP what about fox chaingrabs
Mike McG Fox can still get them to 50-60% on every other stage, so it's not that different. On the other hand, Fox can't use platforms to avoid lasers on FD.
FishamanP no foxes chances of 0-deathing falco are much higher if he uses uptilts to continue the chaingrab, similar to marth
Mike McG And Falco's chances of 0-deathing Fox?
+FishamanP that isn't as guaranteed as foxes
I gotta go with fox. Once you can get around falco lasers effectively, Fox creams him in neutral game. Falco has an easier time in the matchup but if fox knows how to punish, i think its kinda 60/40
6:23 So what you're saying is... it'll cover everything except the roll to the right?
Please make a floaties for falco combos. I deal with a peach everyday :c
+ktn i deal with "paralize spam" zero suit spamus
+TheAsianGamerDuo pretty sure we're not talking about sm4sh
+Funny Motives could be he means PM
I have to deal with pickachu most of the time
Reflet games jump over it
This video has like 100 hours worth of practice/learning material in 7 and a half minutes. My god
So what are you waiting for?
I genuinely believe Falco beats Fox.
I think he beats fox at any level other than High or Top. At those higher levels, it SEEMS like its either even or slightly in Fox's favour, but that's just my observation as a low level player.
+Seank7 PAL player here, i REALLY think falco beats fox ;)
+Jonas W stay in Europe
+Jonas W mango dropped falco because at really high level of play, falco is slowly becoming un-viable
KuiNoah not true. He dropped falco because the falco metagame shifts in a direction where he needed to play falcon in a way he doesnt want to an he hopes the meta shifts bach. Watch his VOD one more time ;)
I think the question in the end was a really good one. Do more MU stuff, maybe like Falcon - Sheik, can the 20GX beat their demon? Or other controversial MUs like Falco - Peach, Falco - Icies, Pika - Marth etc.
Fox vs Falco is 50/50 imo
Agreed
+The Alchemist League More like 50.5, 49.5. The match-up is literally dead even but Fox just has so much speed he can out maneuver Falco easy.
+ShucklesD3 yeah, maybe. I personally think that Falco is the best character, but I don't know
But, does down smash cover roll to the right?
Hmm, if MaNg0's doing bad with Falco, Fox. If he's doing well with Falco, Falco.
Hayabusa truest comment
"first things first, i want you guys to know this guy is NOT the end all be all"
FALCO WILL HAVE HIS MOMENT TO SHINE
Fox may have better matchups overall, but Falco beats Fox by a slight but significant margin. Falco has more reach on his moves (sans his Shine,) and Falco can punish Fox with his combo game harder than any other character.
This is definitely not true, marth and sheik punishes fox much harder than falco can
@@ssgsaxgamer4902 what does that have to do with falco vs fox?
@@actually_well_ I think when I made that comment I was responding to the statement that falco can punish fox harder than any other character
@@actually_well_ but in response to the actual mu, fox wins because he has a lot of guaranteed true combos on falco, whereas falco doesn't have the same against fox. Fox can kill falco at any percent, combo at any percent, gimps etc. etc. better tools in the neutral (arguably)
the MU is probably 60-40 or 65-35 for fox
@@ssgsaxgamer4902 oh I'm stupid, I should have read the original comment a little better, my bad. That makes sense
In what ways can I start the basic waveshine dair combo at low percents. I find when im playing I have trouble getting that initial shine
I realize it's not directly a Melee tutorial, but what about a video about how to find what specifications in controllers are better/fit you? I know I hear a lot about silvers being amazing, stiff and loose analog sticks/triggers, etc.
This is actually a great idea
+CheeseManFuu The controller barely matters, all you need is something that can shield drop. Put enough hours into your controller and it will become a "good" controller
+CheeseManFuu Shield drops are done by manually notching your controller so it doesnt matter which one you pick
It’s so satisfying seeing a good falco.
sheik needle guide plssssssssssssssss
+Cedric M word
+Cedric M how to combo with shiek: grab, d-throw, aerial
+myOZone no nerd, video about using needles
Cedric M b on the ground it goes straight b in the air it goes 90 degrees.
+myOZone noce meme friend
Man are we lucky uncle punch exists
I love Falco. He’s so much fun to combo with. His down air is so lovely, and his shine throws people up. It’s great. I just wish his up B was stronger.
If he had fox’s up b he’d be the best character in the game
@@joecastaneda6195 no
@@joecastaneda6195 He already is the best character in the game without fox's up B. Falco players just cant stand their character having a single part of hit kit that isn't the best in the game
@@ReavenM1911A1what part of falco’s kit is better than fox’s besides laser
@@yurplethepurple2064 I mean everything except movespeed upsmash upair upb and throws. Even Falco shine is better 99.9% of times, getting shield poked by a fox shine loses you neutral and stage position unless they're Hax$. Getting shield stabbed by Johnnyfalco2007 leads to a 80%+ combo because Falco's the easiest character in the game to combo with
I'd say it's even. People say like "just powershield lasers" and Fox wins. But I haven't seen much consistency of that, and even if you do, you get like 1% and a good projectile to cover your approach. And Falcos will obviously adapt to it, learning how to deal with laser coming back at him. There is also the mute/fake laser, or whatever it called, where you do it so low it doesn't come out, could be used as a mind game since some players try to react to the sound, and then making them shield unnecessarily. I also think that Falcos punish-game is a lot easier and cleaner than Foxs, and that Foxs requires more precision to really like 0-death Falco, while Falcos is more true and have more variations. Falco also have more range on his moves than Fox, and an AC B-air which is really safe, and also is heavier, meaning better CC. So y, I think it's pretty much even. Falco probably wins the MU at non-top level, but at top level it's pretty much even.
If both players are very good I'd say fox barely, if both players are all right at the game or bad then 100% falco
how to edge guard spacies as captain falcon please
Ask Mang0, not us
How do I know if I hit the right or left side of fox? do you mean the direction foxes nose is pointing?? sorry, if this is a dumb question but I need some clarification about knowing which direction to wavedash.
Who wins Fox v Falco? Just ask Mango. He knows the definitive answer
lollll best comment
That's true, if you think about it he is basically the only top player thats played both spacies at the top level
+RUclips Account Mango said that falco wins. He based this on the fact that he started winning with falco more. He's not the person whose opinion you should look for.
mango says its even but falco has to work harder than fox does because u won't score any easy gimps or anything like that.
it's an even matchup,they both have an insane punish game on each other if Falco gets a shine combo it can lead to death and if fox gets a grab it can also be fatal
Falco cuz Lasers and dair and shine and stuff i dunno
Joshy Zamael then there's away around Fox's stuff
+Wizzkidwas perfect shielding Falco's lasers
+Tyler Wills that's pretty short sighted. Falcon could just as easily power shield back or laser cancel as a mix up. Falco's laser will always be an objective advantage
+Not Thomas It's harder to powershield the lasers back as falco because the sound is not there. When you shoot a laser, it isn't as much of an advantage as it's made out to be (unless sound is turned off) because the SOUND is easier to react to than visual cue. Lasers simply aren't as dominant in the meta as before, and powershield laser is becoming more prominent and common.
+M16U1_D4_5CHKRU8 power shielding has an audio cue as well, so what's stopping falco players from anticipating that. The meta is shifting, but that's simply because fox is the most concentrated character in terms of the meta being pushed. Once falco players adapt, however long that takes, it will again place favor on falco
I've been practicing Falco for almost a year and im having a hard time shine wave-landing. can i get some insight on how to practice it.
falco> fox. I'm a ganandorf main lol so i like spiking if you know what i mean.
+Nareg95 wow very impressive
+Michael Schlag ?
+Nareg95 Ganon doesn't have a spike.
+Poison- is down air and end of his up air are both spikes, you can't tech the up air spike tho so i use that a lot
Nareg95 Neither of those are spikes. His down-b is a spike when used in the air though.
ive been starting off my neutral game combos with either running in laser crouch cancel down tilt or if theyre a decent percent just simply a dash attack normally followed up by sideB uptilt or nair. but with floaties especially peach full jumping ontop of them and shine just to stall in mid air when im close enough they throw out a down smash then dair/nairing
Falco is better in the neutral, but fox is better to edgeguard with
Exactly what I think. Falco shuts Fox down, but once Fox gets Falco offstage, he's likely dead.
That's what I think
+Memo_Mj yes but I believe its more important to have the neutral game
(in the fox vs. falco mu anyways)
+iNSOMNIACssbm Jesus, just powershield. People are dumb if they complain about lasers but don't do shit to prepare against them. It's really not that hard, combined practice that I put in for powershielding is probably just a few hours, and I can do it pretty consistently at this point, in and out of tournament. Aside from lasers, Falco has slightly larger hitboxes for the neutral, but Fox's superior APM beats that out in my opinion.
Mahkram Saile regardless of lasers flaco's neutral is till better
What about when the other person DIs in over you? After dair > shine, and they DI inward over your head, it breaks the combo every time. How do you deal or react to this?
+IcicleTFL IT doesn't break the combo, you can either wavedash down or do a short wavedash to be able to get there easier but you can get there in time almost no matter what. Most likely you are not doing the moves very slow
casually asks which spacie is better I'd say Falco swags way harder but fox gets the best results
+Johnny Petes I think Fox's combos are cooler. Send them flying back and forth across the stage
TurbinationE well that's an unpopular opinion brotha
This is what I need to finally win against my friends! Thanks!
"As long as you don't suck you can continually combo your opponent to death, as falco is a brain dead and automatic character"
This video taught me a lot of cool things that I'm absolutely not going to remember.
Roy is technically a fastfaller
+1337wafflezz yeah, i can personally say falco's shenanigans work pretty well on Roy
+1337wafflezz So is Bowser!
+stegosoriz Or should you say... shineanigans
***** niceme.me/
Max B. Bowser is actually somewhat floaty I think. He's kinda...middle tier. His weight is insane obviously but he doesn't fall as fast as roy. Maybe he's only a couple down from roy on the fastfall tier list? lol idk.
Can anyone explain me how i can get 20xx on a GameCube. My wii doesn't read discs anymore, so my GC is my only option. I do not want to mod/change my GC, so please keep that in mind.
Who wins the Fox v Falco matchup? Falco of course. He wins 90 -10.
Depends on certain situations.
In PAL, Falco dominates even at the highest play due to less kill power with Fox. NTSC the line is blurred a fair bit.
Depends on the player, West for example.
On a technical perspective Fox wins at top level, any lower I feel it's even.
Falco wins
How does he win?
Anyone know the background music?
Fox wins NTSC
Falco wins PAL
wh
Rock Lobster what? Why?
Rock Lobster Falco got way worse than fox in pal
How to combo floaties (especially marth) i keep getting destroyed if they know how to counter lasers
+TheMagicalBean that has more to do with neutral game than combo-ing tbh. I would watch our video "6 Ways to beat Falco lasers" and then avoid the techniques we describe there
+SSBM Tutorials Thanks!
Falco wins 90-10
Noob
Tyler Jones baited
Dominic Actually as I now realize he was referencing another ssbm tutorials video
How do you do a delayed SHFFL dair without C-stick?
With c-stick it seems quite easy but that requires the "claw" grip which I don't like.
But doing it with the A button and analogue stick seems really hard, the dair barely comes out at all
If it's easy for you with the c-stick, then why would you want to do it without?
Anyway, just short hop, and at the very last second press down and A. As long as the dair comes out that's all that matters since you're L-cancelling into shine anyway
SSBM Tutorials Because I can only comfortably do it with the C-stick if I play "claw-style", which I personally don't like using for everything else.
Thanks for the response.
I would use the C stick.
Jump and immediately move your thumb to the c stick. Then fastfall and press down on the c stick right after. You can L cancel and fastfall without having to press any other buttons so you still have time to reach it. Then go back to the B button. it may seem hard at first but eventually your hands will get used to the speed
SSBM Tutorials After trying it, I think that's what I'll do. I assumed it wouldn't be feasible but you are correct, there is enough time to do it that way. It'll just take some practice.
Thanks :)
When the mid/floaty combo video comes out I'll never lose again
Next question for the end of the video: do lasers count for a JV stock?
Fox vs Falco. Depends on player. Usually fox wins more tournaments but Falco has way more combo options. So take your pick.
Fox has a better matchup spread.
does anyone know if the pros use tap jump to jump out of shine or x/y? what's recommended for a newbie? tap jump seems easier imo but what do I know \(x.x)/
+Iron Giant X/Y is more common but tap jump is still used. Nothing is recommended everything is personal preference
I just woke up my parents from practicing too much tech skill lol.
How to combo Floaties with Falco? Peach, Puff? And mid speed? Marth Sheik. Characters you shouldn't over extend against? Samus, Luigi. All of these would be very useful to know
To combo floaties, after the initial shine, double jump over them and fall with a dair. then uptilt
don't over extend vs anyone. over-extending implies you went too far
Where is Colesseum gonna be streamed on? Channel wise.. Anyone??
A tutorial on shield DI (how to do it/practice it and it's uses) would be GODLIKE
this is such an insanely good vid like damn
is shine to shine dair not a good option as a platform techchase? or why isnt it in this video?
i mean shinine to pop them up and shinedair to slam them into the platform
it's fine but harder to tech chase than just dair-ing them without the shine
thanks for the reply its just when i do the normal dair the cpu will bounce off the platform
thats either because they are super high percent or they are DI-ing off of the edge of the platform. Aim your dair so that they have to go more towards the center of the platform if possible
why is this so hard for me? does the 20xx training cpu smash di super hard or something because i cant get this to work
Nathan Merrell try it in training mode, no di there
Do the Dairs always need to be fast falled and L-cancelled to do these combos?
+Nathan Litts yes
People are gonna hate me for saying that Fox's combos are just as good as Falco's, but it's so true. Up air, Up smash, Up throw, and tech chasing is all you need, and you WILL 0-death Falco if you execute correctly, whereas with Falco most of his combos are 50/50 DI mix ups that aren't guaranteed. Once you get Falco to percents where up air stops giving you follow ups, just bair/shine them offstage and get a free edge guard. Boom. 0-death.
In the neutral all you have to do against Falco is powershield (it's not that hard guys) and then use your superior APM to beat him out.
Fox obviously has the edge (kek) when edge guarding, he has just as good (if not better) combo game, and arguably better neutral game. All this comes from a Fox main who gets very little practice against Falco and tends to perform quite poorly against them. I am personally mediocre in the MU, but at least I can realize that it's my fault and not just a favorable MU for Falco.
In short, Fox wins.
You wrote a literally text with 20+ lines of personal opinion which do not have antything close to reality...
+MyTopo14 lol
MyTopo14 Tell me why I'm wrong, and how giving factual ways to combo Falco is opinion based.
honestly a lot of what u said is true. to win matches falco has to outplay fox whereas fox can steal games from falco he doesn't deserve through gimps and shit. Falco has to work harder to win the matchup but i do think it's an even matchup still.
Big thanks for all your videos. Alot of work and very precise job.
Can you please make a how to combo with falco against floaties video? I know these videos take a while, so take as much time as you need, but I am really bad at comboing floaties. Thanks!
So how do you combo floaties
Kira, I was wondering how you avoid entering "auto-pilot" mode and letting your brain shut off during sets. Do you have any advice for some way of doing that?
+Alex Sperandio Sometimes it's better to do that tbh. Lets you react faster. You can't think about every tiny decision in this game, it's just not possible.
Otherwise pick a specific situation and tell yourself what you will change next time you get in it
The amount of work Falco has to do to finish Fox stocks vs the reverse makes Fox win.
0-40 combo on FD can be done in many ways
f-smash combos need to be utilized , shout outs to lambchops/beerman for the best DI mixups }
Fox and Falco are very even and it's hard to chose who would win.
Falco definitely wins neutral but Fox also has heavy punish game on Falco and also has chain grabs at low % so I can't chose as it's all about how the game plays out.
I'm going to watch this video over and over and over again, until I can do this flawlessly.
you keep saying "if they guess their DI" or "if you predict correctly." I mean, there are essentially three di options, so are most combos dropped if you guess wrong? will most people only di one way for a bit? iirc westballz said it doesnt matter where they di, is this true? thanks so much for the vids. practice every day and this really helps me specifically target things in my practice.
also at 4:15 you say use weak hits to continue combo for switch to di in. was that not a strong nair, and not weak? or do you mean moves that are not smash attack or backair. sooorrrrrry
Well you can follow up on any DI but sometimes you do have to guess correctly. You can manipulate their DI by mixing up which side you shine them on as well, often times you can get long combos going either way.
thank youuuuuuuu. gotcha gotcha. aka mixup will fuck with them.
it was a strong nair but it wont send as far as like fsmash or bair or something. you could also use 1st hit of fair there as well
SSBM Tutorials Who do you think wins the Fox/Falco matchup?
no mention of shine bair at all?
Why do you say Shine wave dash instead of waveshining? Are they different? I was used to saying waveshining.
Shine > Wavedash is a waveshine, so yes, they are the same. I think they say Shine > Wavedash so that it's a little easier to understand for those who don't know as much Melee terminology.
How much of this applies to project m?
Even usually but I think Falco has a slight advantage in Pal
The MU is decided by who the crowd is cheering for. Falco is swaggier, so he wins more often.
Why wasn't Mr.B vs. Red Ranger on the survey???
I noticed that if u been using down air lately ( causes Stale-Move Negation) you can do one more down air shine, before it is tech able, if u start pillaring on 0 % :)
Are you ever going to do a Falco video vs. Marth/Sheik/Jigglypuff/Peach?
I think fox vs Falco is even, they both have insane punishes on each other, Falco has lasers, and fox has good edge guarding against falco
+SSBM Tutorials so against fox, I get some decent mileage from using fullhop dair oos at 0% instead of wavedash oos. is this a viable alternative or do the people I play with just have bad DI or something?
+Tony Abbott First if you say "oos" many people will think you are saying "out of shield". Second fullhop dair can work but why do it when waveshine covers everything and fullhop dair does not cover everything
It's hard for us to straight up say Fox or Falco because you see some Falcos go off against some foxes, but, overall, the match-up is 52-48 for Fox. He probably wins due to having a more reliable kill set up in edge guarding. Kira you should tell us what you think for some of these polls!
Does anyone know how I can change the 20xx cpu back to normal?
+Steph Curry you should be healing your injury not playing melee
+ColdFridge1 not actually injured.. Just need to catch up on the meta with the new westballz soda can tech. So you can keep your statistics, I prefer the magic.
+Steph Curry CPU Flags non-psychotic AI or something like that
+SSBM Tutorials I don't see that option in the Debug Menu. Do I have to reinstall it? I've literally looked everywhere
Debug Menu > General Codes > [Something] Flags > Normal AI
I think that's what it was
i think fox vs falco is slightly favored in falco's favor at all stages of play - when a falco like westballz is playing on point, i think he gets way more off an opening in neutral on average compared to a top fox.
I feel like fox/falco matchups are generally 45/55 due to Falco having more priority from his lasers and combo game.