AI Could Never Translate This Anime (feat. Chihayafuru)
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2024
- Let's talk about poetry translation and karuta.
Sources:
Learn more about Karuta: www.tofugu.com/japan/karuta-j...
All the poems in Japanese, romaji, and English (this is the source I used when writing the video script, but as of February, their site seems to be down):
jti.lib.virginia.edu/japanese...
Another site with MacCauley’s translations:
extra.shu.ac.uk/emls/iemls/re...
A site with all the 100 poems in Japanese:
www.samac.jp/search/poems_lis...
All the poems, CR subs:
/ anime_chihayafuru_poem...
onethousandsummers.blogspot.c...
Some images: Tsunagujapan.com, pngtree
Patreon: / sarahktranslate
kofi: ko-fi.com/sarahmoon
Learn Japanese with me! / @sarahmoonjapanese
Gaming Channel with Husband-kun: / @nekomancer666
Cooking Channel: / @sarahlovesfood
Email: sarahktranslate@yahoo.com
Twitter: / sarahktranslate
Bluesky: @prettytranslator.bsky.social
Channel art: Vera / veracaudieux
Disclaimers: all opinions are my own, sponsors are acknowledged. Links in the description are typically affiliate links that let you help support the channel at no extra cost. 
Развлечения
A note I wanted to add, but couldn’t fit it into the video:
Another narrative the reactionaries like to push is that we translators are being fired en masse or that our firing is imminent. While AI is indeed a threat to our jobs (as well as your job…yes, YOUR job), listen to actual localization professionals for the facts. Personally, I have so much translating work for the foreseeable future that this and my Japanese learning channel (Sarah Moon Japanese) are going on hiatus until at least July.
This very well might be the last video I upload to this channel. I’m simply too busy doing my dream job to keep making videos with any regularity. On that note, check out Miss Savage Fang! It’s a new light novel and manga series translated by yours truly for Yen Press! Vol. 1 of the light novel series will be released February 20th. I’m also working on a number of other manga, light novels, and games, so follow me on twitter or bluesky to keep up-to-date with whatever I’m working on.
Like... do they do this with Ghost Stories?
Or at least call out those claiming its the "best dub" especially with how Satsuki tells bible-thumping Momoko to "go bomb an abortion clinic already."
I mean, Steve Foster might've gotta shit about it back then but now? His work's getting the exact opposite in this age of Anti-Loc crowd.
And Dragon Ball Z. There's only so much nostaglia you can bleat on about before you realize that FUNimation did what they accused of their Dragon Maid dub.
I saw someone argue on reddit that jobs don't have inherent value and if we could automate translation and voice acting it'd simply cut costs and expedite processes. I had some back and forth with him and he said that entertainment and art - including games and anime - only have as much value as you give them. They're a product meant to be enjoyed. There's so much wrong with that hylic attitude that devalues both the meaning of art and the hard work and livelihood of individuals by reducing art to a hedonistic commodity with no depth other than the pleasure of consumption. I really just find that attitude viscerally repulsive and disgusting and I gotta say that I think that anyone who thinks like that is completely tasteless and soulless. I think it's folly to believe that all scientific advancements are necessarily positive. Not to sound like an anarcho-primitivist, but some things we are better off not including as part of our society, and the advent of the AI revolution is making it crystal clear. The only people benefiting from it are the ones at the top, while everyone else either gets laid off or offered a sub-par product - and some are HAPPIER with it.
It's funny you bring up anarcho-primitivism, because the broader post-left anarchist perspective here (to which anprim is connected but from which it is largely distinct) would be that the fundamental problem with "labour-saving" technologies under any vertically hierarchical system is that they *do not* actually reduce the amount of work that people do, but rather are used to increase the amount of labour performed at a lower skill level with less pleasure or interest in the doing. It reduces human beings to the appendages of the machines which have replaced skilled labour. This is not to say that advanced technology is intrinsically evil, but rather that capitalism, or for that matter any system by which humans are forced to give away their labour to others in order to survive, invests in technologies which reproduce its values and will turn any technology meant to reduce human striving to the end of extracting more from that striving. "Soullessness" hardly factors in to me, except in that the people pushing these technologies arguably wish for the world to be more "soulless" because it prevents ideas which might challenge theirs from coming to fruition; I do not think that generative technologies as tools are inherently without "soul," any more than vocal synthesisers or cutup collage are without "soul," but I do believe that any tool can be used cruelly or shaped to cruel ends not inherent to the concept, and I think that is what we are seeing with what people call "AI." (That said, there's a whole conversation to be had about how AGI is impossible within the current paradigms of algorithmic generative technology because such programmes are incapable of wanting things in the way that an actual living, thinking thing does, but while important in telling off especially culty "AI" people, it's only relevant to the machine translation thing insofar as that, again, it can only be a tool, not a will unto itself, and thus will always require outside input.)
Sarah really just mass posted a lot of content. Gotta watch it all!
I mean, 2/3 of the videos are technically clips from another video...
I remember watching season 1 of Chihayafuru when it first came out in 2012 without really understanding what was going on. At that time I was deeply unappreciative of being multilingual and how growing up with different languages literally shapes the way you think. There are lots of concepts that do not translate or exist in other languages simply because they don’t allow for those concepts to be imagined.
I then picked up the manga a few years later and rewatched the anime, I don’t think there’s been another manga/anime that has moved me so much. I cried at the last chapter of the manga after having followed it for many years by that point.
I really believe the localisation of the anime helps explain and immerse the viewer in portrayals of romance and relationships that are different to western depictions. There is a lot about longing, pining, holding back, subtlety, which I’m such a sucker for. For me it has the same feeling as when I watch “In the mood for love”, because I understand the language I can pick up on all the things the translation doesn’t quite get right.
I now appreciate localisation and the amount of understanding and mastery you must have, of not just the language but also the culture, to be able to accurately communicate and deliver the translation.
The lax reaction to CR hosting AI subs for the first (known) time was disappointing even if they were probably given to them. At least they changed them after being called out. Credits as a whole have only been worse lately it feels like since CR took over and Sentai just decided to stop credits at the end of every episode. It is kind of sad when companies like Netflix are one of the few that still credit their TL.
As for Chihayafuru. I loved the localization even as someone who doesn't know Japanese. I was also impressed with the dub when I finally watched it. It was something seen as "impossible to dub" for forever and it ended up really good.
Lax but vocal enough. That there were those calling it out at all was nice to see.
So glad to see so many people in the comments who understand
It's truly a depressing and sickening sight seeing these weebs be so hateful towards other people and wish for them to lose their jobs over a translation. Bad translations do exist, but art doesn't and shouldn't exist for a machine to translate it just because its technically more "accurate". And treating this like it's what the fans deserve with this "the customer's always" right attitude does more harm to anime than any localizer could, cause it tells these corporations that this isn't art, it's a product. AI translations aren't the solution, they're part of the larger problem.
Hell, they really think that this might not spill over into Anime and Manga itself. If this got a foothold in translating, who's to say that Japanese studios wouldn't want to get a piece of it. Lord knows that they treat animators overall like they're machines.
Christ, MAPPA would be first in line...
Like this video legitimately explains it better than I could: ruclips.net/video/GOwxXj1EIXM/видео.html
AI translation and text generation, even if passable, still lacks a quality that i‘m not even sure can be replicated. it’s less about the robot human wars ins the future or whatever, or even about workers rights now, but more so about this flattening of what text can do and what is needed to create it
10:07 Yay I’m your favourite :3
I saw a video by some guy talking about the same old stuff regarding sjw/incompetent localizers and he literally posted in the comments something like "You actually don't even hate localizers enough!". I just don't get that mentality of deliberately inciting hatred and division between producers and consumers of content. I don't work in localization but I have a translation background and speak lots of languages, so I wrote a long comment trying to explain some things about the industry and inviting people in the comments to engage with me, but I just got a dismissive reply. Some guy told me that it is disrespectful to localize instead of translate (as if there's even really a difference) and when I noticed he had "lolicon" in the name I realized it was a losing battle anyways.
I have a ton of respect for you for swimming against the tide in what might seem like a losing battle against these people, but I promise you people notice your stuff and learn from it. I'm a real big fan of yours and I tell all my IRL and URL friends about you. Please continue to make content. I promise I - and a lot of other people - admire your work and will continue to watch : D
Dimitri is the GOAT. Stay mad bootlicker.
Have you seen any of Chihayafuru's dub? It'd be interesting to see how its localization compares. I've actually heard good things about it, which surprised me since it seems like that'd be even harder to pull off with a dub's added limitations.
I was interested in looking into it, but I didn't want to spend too much time on this video
@@PrettyTranslatorSarahMoon Understandable!
Why do you like Neptune less in Japanese?
What are your thoughts on the JelloApocalypse drama? I am dying to hear what an actual localizer thinks of what he did.
While I know there are people out there actually clamoring for AI translations with their whole chest, these people are silly and I quite frankly I don't take their opinions at all seriously. Most sensible people really just want more accurate translations. Which I don't think is too much of as ask. It is something hard to talk about when your opinion gets immediately lump in with those of idiots who don't know what they are taking about. Or worse being told that it doesn't happen or your seeing things even though I know that isn't true and can cite many examples just off the top of my head. While I am not fluent in Japanese yet, being able to notice these differences in real time is quite the experience to say the least.
I want more accurate translations as well and I can also cite examples where I've seen things translated less than optimal. Nobody is more critical of translations than translators, trust me. The difference is whether you believe these mistakes or less-than-optimal choices are intentional...OR whether it's an honest mistake or simply a subjective difference of opinion. As long as it's the latter, we can have a dialogue.
There is a lot to unpack with translators and what they do, are allowed to do, etc. But so much of the Anti-Loc crowd don't want to unpack shit and wanna throw out the entire suitcase. Scorched Earth policy essencially.
I mean, nuance would kill their clickbait videos that pander to translator haters. Their little TMZ thing they got going is making them mint. Why ruin it with actual facts and studies?
do we have any localization tools / AI tools which effectively translates English to Japanese and vice versa?
i shudder to imagine the day when AI translated anime and manga are the standard. i don’t want perfect translation. i want HUMAN translation.
1:01 what dee heck is mugwort and moxibustion?
exactly.
Yep
All those hearlding the advent of AI translations because "no political" are just... sad.
They really don't see that this doesn't stop at translators. Soon they'll dare to make Anime whole cloth from A.I. on top of voice actors (east or west), animation and dialogue.
Any dream job you might've had about this sort of field will go up in smoke for YOU if Artificial Intellegence is abused by those who care about money first, art dead last. You give executive pushing A.I. an inch, they'll take the whole country mile.
And with that foot in the door, none of our jobs, good or bad, will be safe. So even if somehow dialogue in entire scenes were overhauled into leftist diatribes in Anime, A.I. taking over everything else would not be the price so your sensitive snowflake ears won't be "triggered" by some big titted dragon saying patriarchy.
And I say those terms semi-ironically.
Bitch about Dragon Maid all you want but whatever mistakes (THAT THE STAFF OWNS UP TO) in script writing is proof that a human wrote this. That a human interpreted the Anime's text and subtext with a subjective lens. It might not feel "right" but it will feel HUMAN. It will feel personal.
I've been visiting dubs of yesteryear like Digimon, Robotech and a few exceptions from 4kids. They weren't always on the mark, often far from it, but they did feel like a human wrote this and was doing their darnest to make something they thought would work. Keep your virtual insanity, I want people.
Despite being of two minds here in regards to A.I., I can't wait for the day these woke localisers get fired and blacklisted from the entire Japanese entertainment industry. These localisers had it coming and I enjoy seeing them squirm and cry, as translations will be less contaminated with western woke ideology. However, the quality of translations will (temporarily) dip, as they will partially lack a certain human touch. There's also a danger that certain (political) biases can also be programmed and integrated into A.I.. Model professional translators can definitely use A.I. as an additional tool to assist them. It's a double-edge sword. Maybe publishers and foreign distributors need to hire Japanese natives who are good to fluent in various foreign languages. Of course, these Japanese native translators would need to be trained and vetted, in order to perform for and represent theses publishers and foreign distributors like model professionals. Translators in the mould of Studio Khara's Dan Kanemitsu or similar come to mind.
It’s time to return to the days where translations were never done during the development or production of certain products, but to do translations after the completion of the original (Japanese language) version as it was the way things were done in the past. The tried, tested and successfully proven. Translating Japanese I.P.s under Japanese norms never ever hurt or harmed foreign or domestic users, customers, etc. in any way, due to historical, religious or cultural differences. The Japanese historical, religious or cultural differences are what made and still make Japanese I.P.s successful in the first place. Domestic audiences and fanbases are the lifeblood of every successful I.P.. Foreign audiences and fanbases are a bonus though.
This global / modern / wider audience these wokies talk about doesn't exist, due to audiences never ever being a monolith. Additionally, this moral abstinence wokies love to preach is a hoax, as all they do is classic projection, gaslighting, crybullying and tokenism, which is the bigotry of low expectations and internalised and externalised istophobia of the highest order. Wokies are the embodiment of anti-marketing. This toning down of sexiness of characters is also uncalled for. It's obvious that sexiness always sells and that fan service is customer service, always.
As for those so-called "Global Standards" wokists love to refer to, they aren't what they claim to be. All they are doing is refering to generic lowest common denominator nonsense. I would call such mediocrity "Wooden Spoon Standards". During the 1980s and 1990s, developers and producers had way more creative freedom. This "Wild West" during the 1980s and 1990s were and still are the real global standards. Having full creative freedom and completely ignoring so-called "sensibilities" is the real Global Standard and thus the benchmark and an infinitely growing pinnacle of excellence. Why? Because developers and producers during the 1980s and 1990s were in constant competition with one another. This competition of ideas only encourages people to strive to evolve and better oneself. Again, striving for excellence in quality, creativity, evolution, satisfying cumtomers and fans, etc. is the real Global Standard.
Foreign fans of Japanese I.P.s want translations to be faithful to the original with the creator’s original vision intact, uncut, unedited and uncensored. The same thing goes for the Japanese historical, religious or cultural differences that are included and embedded. That’s what also makes Japanese I.P.s stand out.
Those who keep on persisting that this global / modern / wider audience needs to be the main focus, because they bring more money as a whole fail to realise that the absolute majority of such customers are tourists who don't stay for long and don't have a hive mind. Those are the extremely shortsighted ones who always fail economically.
This xenophobia and racism against Japan needs to stop. Even the censorship that is happening during the develeopment and production of I.P. needs to cease. No more censoring at the source!
Localisation never has been, still isn't and never will be translation. Not ever. Period. That's my sober take.
@@konni0883 I’m sorry but I’m not willing to waste my money on a dip in quality product just because people who are in favor of taking down localization translators jobs for the sake of A.I
you enjoy seeing them cry and squirm? what are you cartoon villain? How bitter are you?
@@r.u.phlegmaticbeats These people really love talking like Sephiroth.
@@HeruruMeruru real and true
@@r.u.phlegmaticbeats Localisation apologists such as yourself obviously lack any self-awareness. If these localisers, who will never be recognised as proper translators, refuse to see the error of their way, they've forfeited their right to complain. They purely did it to themselves. They aren't victims, but cultural appropriators, colonisers and vandals. As for bitterness, that's you exclusively projecting your very own behaviour onto me. How weak and petty. People like me are judging you and your sort by your own everchanging standards. No more carnival licences for woke localisers. That isn't cancel culture. That is consequence culture.
6:58 we meet again. remember her? but why does she say nonpictured?
10:47 you sing amazingly 😮🎉
what is MLG at 12:38. 15:32mmkay boss
16:37 feemoid? I get nothing on google
20:48 where is age and gender located? in googleplus?
YOOOOO! My favorite anime that I can never recommend to anyone!
What's that? Double take!
left tap tap, ten seconds back.
Ready? Tap the standing bars!
10:08
Reading Ascendance of a Bookworm and the word “karuta” isn’t pronounced like I thought it was lol
Watching the anime, just listen to the audio.
I don't remember paying attention to the translation of the poems.
19:43 right here I will admit that I disagree. I never liked usagi and Michiru is… bleh 😂 any version
Usagi used to really annoy me, but now I love her.
@@PrettyTranslatorSarahMoon I know and that’s a good thing!
If it isn't the person who wanted to deliberately insert the term "Incel" into a script, when it was never mentioned in the Japanese original. Talk about being a curtural appropriator and vandal. Oh the hypocrisy. A.I. will never be perfect. Yet, it will make you obsolete and even be able to faithfully translate Chihayafuru in the very near future, whilst remaining faithful to the visions of the original creators. You did this to yourself. The internet never ever forgets.
Oh, miss me with that "cultural appropriator" leftist jargon you gleamed from some tweet. You don't speak for any Japanese person and never will. Just cut the grandstanding and say you disagree with her choice of words. Not that hard.
Furthermore, Incel: "based around the inability to find a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one." Now might I know what example you are referring to and whether or not that descriptor alone could be applicable.
Come to think of it, I've seen both the left and right weaponize it more than they should. How is it somehow a Leftist Agenda being pushed?
Stupid localization decisions aside, AI can't even translate hentai without making about a million contextual errors along the way. The amount of hand-holding you'd have to give AI to translate anime or manga is effort better spent actually learning Japanese. I mean, look at it this way, with bad localizers, you're getting a product peppered with rewrites and mistranslations because they fucked up the script while acting cute or political. With AI translations, you're getting a product peppered with rewrites and mistranslations because the person "translating" it doesn't know the script and thus, is forced to make up bullshit and edit what the AI spat out until it "looks right".
@@oldpoletadpole70 Localization is translation full stop. And I'll take a human making a poor translation call over an A.I. I want humanity in my art. Biases and all.
16:28
@@oldpoletadpole70 @matt0044 To say that "the amount of hand-holding I'd have to give AI to translate anime or manga is effort better spent actually learning Japanese" is a copout and an excuse to justify deliberate butcher jobs in my opinion. Customer is king, remember?
Anyway, despite being of two minds here in regards to A.I., I can't wait for the day these woke localisers get fired and blacklisted from the entire Japanese entertainment industry. These localisers had it coming and I enjoy seeing them squirm and cry, as translations will be less contaminated with western woke ideology. However, the quality of translations will (temporarily) dip, as they will partially lack a certain human touch. There's also a danger that certain (political) biases can also be programmed and integrated into A.I.. Model professional translators can definitely use A.I. as an additional tool to assist them. It's a double-edge sword. Maybe publishers and foreign distributors need to hire Japanese natives who are good to fluent in various foreign languages. Of course, these Japanese native translators would need to be trained and vetted, in order to perform for and represent theses publishers and foreign distributors like model professionals. Translators in the mould of Studio Khara's Dan Kanemitsu or similar come to mind.
It’s time to return to the days where translations were never done during the development or production of certain products, but to do translations after the completion of the original (Japanese language) version as it was the way things were done in the past. The tried, tested and successfully proven. Translating Japanese I.P.s under Japanese norms never ever hurt or harmed foreign or domestic users, customers, etc. in any way, due to historical, religious or cultural differences. The Japanese historical, religious or cultural differences are what made and still make Japanese I.P.s successful in the first place. Domestic audiences and fanbases are the lifeblood of every successful I.P.. Foreign audiences and fanbases are a bonus though.
This global / modern / wider audience these wokies talk about doesn't exist, due to audiences never ever being a monolith. Additionally, this moral abstinence wokies love to preach is a hoax, as all they do is classic projection, gaslighting, crybullying and tokenism, which is the bigotry of low expectations and internalised and externalised istophobia of the highest order. Wokies are the embodiment of anti-marketing. This toning down of sexiness of characters is also uncalled for. It's obvious that sexiness always sells and that fan service is customer service, always.
As for those so-called "Global Standards" wokists love to refer to, they aren't what they claim to be. All they are doing is refering to generic lowest common denominator nonsense. I would call such mediocrity "Wooden Spoon Standards". During the 1980s and 1990s, developers and producers had way more creative freedom. This "Wild West" during the 1980s and 1990s were and still are the real global standards. Having full creative freedom and completely ignoring so-called "sensibilities" is the real Global Standard and thus the benchmark and an infinitely growing pinnacle of excellence. Why? Because developers and producers during the 1980s and 1990s were in constant competition with one another. This competition of ideas only encourages people to strive to evolve and better oneself. Again, striving for excellence in quality, creativity, evolution, satisfying cumtomers and fans, etc. is the real Global Standard.
Foreign fans of Japanese I.P.s want translations to be faithful to the original with the creator’s original vision intact, uncut, unedited and uncensored. The same thing goes for the Japanese historical, religious or cultural differences that are included and embedded. That’s what also makes Japanese I.P.s stand out.
Those who keep on persisting that this global / modern / wider audience needs to be the main focus, because they bring more money as a whole fail to realise that the absolute majority of such customers are tourists who don't stay for long and don't have a hive mind. Those are the extremely shortsighted ones who always fail economically.
This xenophobia and racism against Japan needs to stop. Even the censorship that is happening during the develeopment and production of I.P. needs to cease. No more censoring at the source!
Localisation never has been, still isn't and never will be translation. Not ever. Period. That's my sober take.