Testing Ellen White's Writings (Seventh-day Adventism) | Part 2
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
- Is Ellen White a true prophet? Did Ellen White plagiarize as Walter Rea stated? What is the history of the Seventh-Day Adventist prophet and how were her books constructed?
CHAPTERS:
00:00 - Intro
02:29 - Warnings on giving up Ellen White
03:47 - Ellen's literary claims
07:45 - What if Adventists ignore her writings?
10:24 - Evaluating the written word of a "prophet"
11:53 - Desire of Ages claims
14:28 - Desire of Ages Example #1
16:18 - Desire of Ages Example #2
26:02 - Closing Thoughts
References in order of appearance:
1. “As soon as I take my pen in hand I am not in darkness as to what to write...”
-Manuscript 89, 1900. m.egwwritings.org/en/book/100...
2. “The Holy Ghost is the Author of the Scriptures and of the spirit of prophecy [Ellen White].”
-To J. H. Kellogg, 1900 m.egwwritings.org/en/book/140...
3. “Sister White is not the originator of these books...They contain the precious, comforting light that God has graciously given his servant to be given to the world.”
-Advent Review and Sabbath Herald from January 20, 1903
documents.adventistarchives.o...
4. “I cannot at my own impulse take up a work and launch out into it. I cannot write unless the Holy Spirit helps me...”
-Letter 11, 1903. m.egwwritings.org/en/book/140...
5. "These books contain clear, straight, unalterable truth...The instruction they contain is not of human production."
-Letter 339, 1904 m.egwwritings.org/pl/book/140...
6. "I am thankful that the instruction contained in my books...These books were written under the demonstration of the Holy Spirit."
-Letter 50, 1906 m.egwwritings.org/en/book/847...
7. “When writing these precious books, if I hesitated, the very word I wanted to express the idea was given me.”
-Letter 265, 1907 m.egwwritings.org/en/book/140...
8. “I am very busy with my writing...I am writing out the matters that the Lord opens before me.”
-Letter 371, 1907 m.egwwritings.org/en/book/140...
9. “I am instructed to say to our churches, Study the Testimonies...If God’s people will not study these messages...they are guilty of rejecting light...”
-Letter 292, 1907 m.egwwritings.org/en/book/140...
10. “Precious instruction has been given to our people in the books I have been charged to write. ...this light will condemn all who have not chosen to accept and obey it.”
-Letter 258, 1907 m.egwwritings.org/en/book/140...
11. “...God would be pleased to see “The Desire of Ages” in every home. In this book is contained the light he has given on his work...” Mrs. E. G. White
- Supplement to the Review and Herald July 3, 1900.
m.egwwritings.org/en/book/821...
12. “The larger books, ... "Desire of Ages," should be sold everywhere. These books contain truth for this time…Sister White is not the originator of these books. They contain the precious, comforting light that God has graciously given his servant to be given to the world.”
-Advent Review and Sabbath Herald from January 20, 1903
documents.adventistarchives.o...
13. “...In my books, the truth is stated, barricaded by a “Thus saith the Lord.” The Holy Spirit traced these truths upon my heart and mind as indelibly as the law was traced by the finger of God upon the tables of stone...”
-Letter 90, 1906 m.egwwritings.org/en/book/140...
FIRST EXAMPLE--
14. “Having collected the riches of the universe, and laid open the resources of infinite power, He gives them all into the hands of Christ, and says...”
-Ellen White, The Desire of Ages (1898).
repo.adventistdigitallibrary....
15. "Having collected all the riches of the universe, and laid open all the resources of his infinite nature, he gave them all into the hands of Christ and said..."
-John Harris, The Great Teacher (1837), page 113 in this edition (page 112 of PDF below).
ia600700.us.archive.org/10/it...
SECOND EXAMPLE--
Based on Luke 24:33-48 and John 20:19-29.
16. “On reaching Jerusalem the two disciples enter at the eastern gate...”
-Ellen White, The Desire of Ages (1898), page 802-804 (page 407-408 of PDF below).
repo.adventistdigitallibrary....
17. “Reaching the walls of the city at a late hour...”
-Daniel March, Night Scenes of the Bible (1869), page 420-427 (page 420-426 of PDF below).
ia600903.us.archive.org/22/it...
All books shown on video were printed and copyrighted before 1915, and are thus in the public domain, except for The White Lie by Walter Rea which was used with permission.
Photos of Ellen White courtesy of the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc.
#seventhdayadventist #ellenwhite 
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What is the saddest thing I’ve seen among SDA’ s on these various sites exposing her is that none spend effort defending the Bible or quoting it as they do EGW! Gods Bible is completely sufficient. I’m an ex, 4th generation SDA because of this.
Amen. This is the same issue I had with Adventist before I became an Adventist. I put nothing ahead of the Holy Bible. It is God and the Bible first. I have encounter many different Adventist over the years, some bad and good. I have come across that some so steep in Adventist traditions and Commandments of the church that they can't see themselves as ever saying anything wrong. I saw pure arrogance from the top of the leadership to the bottom of common attendee. I befriended them all because God wants to save all. I encourage people to do there investigation, but I will say this you will not find doctrinally (meaning Biblically) a more sound group on the planet. Don't get me wrong the church has its issues like any other church but I have rarely encounter any harsh feed back from teaching and preaching Biblical truths without the use of Ellen White. Now I have encounter some folks in the church who believe in Jesus, Jesus, Jesus and his love. Yet, they teach a Jesus that let everything goes accept what they want to go. They teach a Jesus that loves all people and their ways. Jesus loves the sinner but he hate bad behavior. All Jesus was really trying to do is get back back to His original state. A state where nothing dies because of sin. He came to save man from sin. Yet, these folks are saying a little sin won't hurt. Jesus and the Father are simply trying to keep man from stepping on land-minds of life. He trying to keep us from blowing up our lives literally and eternally. He rescues us over and over. Then he invites us to rescue others. Jesus died for us even though our sins put him on that cross. While we were yet sinners Christ died for us. This is the good news,
Well yes, they openly teach that while the Bible is infallible that it is not inerrent. They believe the Bible contains errors and that is why Ellen White is needed. Her extra biblical truths, inspired just as the apostles were, can sort out the errors in God's word. So that legitimizes their prophetess.
Of course real Christians know this is 100% false and heresy. Ellen White fails the test of a prophet on every front. Adventists ask you to view the Bible through the lens of Ellen White. I would ask you to view Ellen White and Adventism through the lens of the Bible alone.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I was in an SDA church service, a church that claims "Sola Scriptura" and heard the speaker say, "The Bible doesn't tell us this, but Ellen White wrote...." and then quotes a portion of her writings where she adds details and people's thoughts to a story that are not part of the Biblical record. And they say her writings are not equal to the Bible, but at 8:16 in this video she uses scriptural quotes to explain how we should view her writings...basically, study them the way you would the Bible.
Yes and they speak of the details she adds as if they were based on knowledge she received from above.
EGW will be the downfall of the SDA church. Heaven is pouring out truth and they are clinging to and giving behind her teachings instead of allowing the spirit to lead. We should pray for our brothers and sisters still under the deception of the corrupt SDA church.
That is pure calculated lie !
No one in the pulpit would say the Bible doesn't say this but EGW does ; there is always atleast some inference in the Bible to the topic or the context at hand ; the beauty of the gift of prophecy is it is for the edification of the church so it is clarity on the enlightenment of the Scripture , and most always the Prophet can say it much better than even the ablest elder and teacher and PhD for that matter ⁉️❗🤔
Well, no, it's not a lie.....@theVCRTimeMachine says I agree as I used to be in the faith yrs ago & and I've heard quite often EGW quoted... especially in general chit-chat no matter what the topic is ...... ho..... what dose EGW say about this or that!.... kid you not!
When a church hesitates to test their prophet, something seems off. The bible clearly says to try the spirits to see weather or not they are from God.
Difference between testing and doubt?
@@user-ti3cc6dg2r I beg to differ
There has been quite a bit of testing over the years. Seems like many of the people on this thread are unaware of the decades of testing people within and without the church have conducted over the years.
This video and thread has a common theme of assuming Adventists haven’t heard these criticisms or read from other books outside Adventism. I grew up aware of most of these issues as a kid and enjoy many books and viewpoints outside traditional Adventism. It makes me wonder if most of the people surprised by this supposed “plagiarism” grew up in very isolated or ultra conservative communities of Adventism.
She has been tested. Numerous times.
When I tell sda's about Ellen's PROVABLE plagerism, they tell me 1. Beware of crititising "God's Prophet" 2. To READ ALL OF HER WRITINGS. I guess it shouldn't amaze me that after reading all of Galatians to them, they respond " Jesus kept the sabbath", nor have I been able to convince a single one that "grace" is not just another word for "anarchy". Incredible how strong the superglue is that this cult pours into the brains of their victims. May the Lord lead them out. Sean's wife
Kevin Morgan
Read Hebrews 3 and 4 line by line..
Pray before you do so the veil can be taken away from your eyes.
Hebrews 3 and 4 clearly explain Jesus is our Rest from wandering in the wilderness of the world-He is our Rest 24/7.
Read 2 Corinthians 3:3-16.
Galatians 2:21 Galatians 2:11-21
Hebrews 8:13
Acts 15:10
Hebrews 7:11-28
Jeremiah 3:16
Jeremiah 3:8
Hebrews 7:11-28
My suggestion: do not read all her writings. Those are years you will never get back.
@@cbtam4333 My suggestion is, do not read ANY of her writings!
Jesus did not always keep the Sabbath. The apostle John literally says, "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." He did what? He broke the Sabbath. And this wasn't the only time. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath in that He is Lord OVER the Sabbath. That's why he said and did what he did.
They thought Yeshua had broken the Sabbath for healing people and not that He was against keeping the Sabbath- Matthew 5:17.The Sabbath was created before the Hebrews became an established nation and was meant for all mankind.
Thorough work, brother. Keep driving this truth home!
“If she relied on another author once, what will stop her from doing it again?” That’s such an important question. What about if she committed plagiarism from books we have no access to to? We would have never known. We thank God we can see the truth.
I have a book I imported from Germany that I will show in part 4 that formed one of her dreams that her "heavenly guide" allegedly sent her. She copied from authors at home and abroad.
@@TesttheProphet How can I view part 1of part 2?
@@deondouglas8271 Deon, I only have two videos completed at this time. Here is part one which is more of a brief overview and introduction: ruclips.net/video/toaSgFSz9_Q/видео.html
Hello Terry. I hope all is well (I believe we've met in another comment section by a different presenter, lol).
I believe "rely" is a strong word to use here. Looking at its definition, EGW would have to had more quotes that she actually does. To "rely" on something/anything is subjective and that's the issue I have with the plagiarism point overall. What if we were to discover that God directed her to those 10, 20, 30, or 40+ sources? That'll change everything. And because we don't know whether God did or not - we're "accusing" her of stealing? And even if He didn't lead her to those sources, where is the "rule of law" that says, "don't use the writings of others." Where is the rule of law that says, "a spokesperson/prophet of God shall not refer to the writings of another author in any way, shape, form, or likeness?" You have a better case with me if you can show me the "rule" that speaks against what she "did."
And if someone is reading this thinking she broke the "thou shall not steal command" then think again as Jesus and may others in the Bible "stole" from message/words in the Old Testament. If she was actually "stealing" don't you think God would have done something about it? When has God ever allowed outright sin to happen w/out confronting it? Never. But since there isn't a rule that speaks against what she did, then all of this (for me) is smoke and mirrors. The claim against her goes back (I believe to 1880s). Its been debated for a long time and for me the bottom line is that I do not see God saying anything about it. So, either God (1) didn't know EGW plagiarised or (2) He knew she plagiarised and didn't say anything about it - suggesting that it was ok for her to "lie" and "steal." Which is it b/c if neither is the case, then, God knew what she wrote and did nothing about it b/c no laws/rules were broken.
@@frazierwoods9912 The problem lies in the fact that she claims she got many of these revelations directly from GOD. If she is continually borrowing from other sources, then how does this support the view that she was under divine inspiration when penning them, when in fact she was copying from another writer. Were the other sources inspired as well? The enemy can also direct someone to pull from various sources and create an entire religion from it. The enemy is crafty! Have you ever entertained this idea. Just sayin.
I'm so excited about this. I watched part 1 and couldn't wait for part 2. God is working to bring truth to his people. I pray that a reformation will take place in the Adventist church. God bless you brother.
Thank you, sister.
I appreciate your time and efforts. The information presented is sound and verifiable. Now it is time for Adventists to openly admit their "prophet" was a fraud and to then perform the proper biblical examination"
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?-unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
The SDA church will never admit any such thing (that their prophet was a fraud). They have been defending the indefensible for well over a century now, so they have a lot of practice and experience with it. It is not in their pecuniary interests to come clean. So the question must be, what should be OUR response? This channel is a good resource that will help people think about what their responses will be.
@@cbtam4333 I agree,, the SDA church has a consistent record of defending EGW and will continue to defend her and her false prophecies and false teachings. And you, this channel is a great resource and proof that EGW is a false teacher and literary thief.
Excellent work and thoughtful production. Your calm demeanor and presentation are much appreciated, and make your analysis shareable with Adventists. Thank you. It would be wonderful to see videos that address SDA doctrine as compared to Scripture.
God bless you Brother. I praise the Lord for your diligent efforts in the Lord! God bless you👏
Thank you!
Someone left me one of her books on my door. I’m not sure who or why…. But upon digging I’m not sure I like what I’m reading. Reading comments I am so glad many of you are letting the Holy Spirit guide you to the truth. He is so good. Such a good shepherd ❤️
@@remnantime3672 I believe it was called ‘The great controversy’
When I received it I had an eerie feeling about it and it felt off… so I disposed of it… but I am pretty sure that was the book.
I also left the Adventist church. Our pastor, in my opinion was more an agnostic then Adventist. He often instilled doubt in the bible, and even told me that Father's ordinances and commands were done away with. My first clue that Ellen G. White was a false prophet was in her Wikipedia page. Under the heading "Physical phenomena during visions". All the phenomena described are more akin to demon possession than divine inspiration. In 1 Corrinthinan's 14:32 "And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets". Paul is very clear, a true prophet is never out of control of his own body. A real prophet will speak plainly and clearly. No stunts or "signs" are needed. Great video, I will share with some that are still lost in the church.
Thanks for sharing. Is that pastor still preaching? Did he instill doubt in the Bible but uplift Ellen White?
@@TesttheProphet That preacher retired last year. I wouldn't say he uplifted her, but Ellen G. White was often referred to as "My favorite author" and her books were still considered a reference in the congregation. I never read more than half of Desire of the Ages. I found it completely void compared to my old KJV. There are two basic tests for testing prophets. The first is Deuteronomy 13 then in Deuteronomy 18. Both are in the Torah. A prophet's predictions must come true and no prophet can change god's instruction, else he is to be dismissed. That's discernment in a nutshell. I did a few teachings on false prophets too; they are available on my channel. I'm glad Father opened your eyes and ears. False prophets are in every evangelical denomination. Peace!
I want to pin a common SDA defense that was written here. This is an argument I have encountered countless times in my studies on EGW and plagiarism. Unfortunately, the commenter deleted their comment after I responded so we could not engage in a conversation. However, I wanted to post this for others who have had similar discussions regarding the issue of plagiarism.
They wrote:
"Everyone, when writing Essays or books, takes sources from other writers, we have all done it, God led her to those sources to help her articulate what she was trying to convey, so she is not guilty of copyright infringement nor plagiarism. It has been proven by LAWYERS Sadly, many SDA’s who have been fanatics, and who have read EGW books more than the Bible will fall for this video, because they never had a foundation in Christ."
My response:
"How do you know God led her to those sources? By your own logic, if God did not lead her to those sources she would be guilty of plagiarism.
Further, why does Ellen White need help from other writers for something she was told by God? Is she unable to use words to convey what she saw/was told? Even a 7 year old can describe something in detail that is witnessed. It would take 10x the amount of time to search other books to find something that matched your vision/inspired information, and then copy their ideas rather than simply writing it out from what was told to you/observed. It's illogical. Plagiarism on the other hand would be a consistent finding for someone who is making stuff up.
In keeping with your reasoning, you would have to accept Daniel March as someone who received a vision about that night he described after the resurrection (assuming you even watched the video), because Ellen White, according to you, felt it was easier to hunt down those extra-biblical details found in March's book instead of writing what she saw herself. Why don't we hold March as the Spirit of Prophecy from Revelation? Either both are inspired or neither were, and Daniel March my friend never claimed divine inspiration."
For those wondering about the lawyers report referenced in this comment. I will be addressing this in part 3 & 4.
First, I'll be waiting for parts 3 and 4. For now, I'll say this: I think its important to consider whether this happened "wholesale" or not....basically, with what "frequency" did EGW "copy" the words of another person? I say this b/c Person A "may be ok" with 5% plagiarism. Person B "may be ok" with 3%, etc. So, what is your personal standard? 0%? If so, that's fine (more on that at the end).
To your question from the conversation you just mentioned ("How do you know God led her to those sources") my answer would be that there's no way to know-its a conclusion based on faith. With that said, does what she copied take away from the central point being made in that paragraph/chapter? I believe this must be considered. Lastly, is plagiarism a disqualification regarding the test of a true prophet? Specifically, did God establish that a prophet should not plagiarize - under no circumstances? If so, where is this given in scripture? If God made no such claim, then the root of this narrative is man-made. Created to cause deception and division. I look forward to reading your response...
So you're saying -- if I find someone claiming to have written books traced by the Holy Spirit, that have consequences if not obeyed, and this individual has lied about the source of her writings -- I am creating deception and causing division? That's a stretch, sir.
@@TesttheProphet I'm making no accusations about you-I don't know you well enough. I'll rephrase: The point about the narrative being man-made is where I should have been more clear. I should have said/asked, "is plagiarism is a disqualification of a true prophet based on scripture?" If not, then the very idea that it is came from Satan-not God, Also, consider the following:...did Jesus Himself plagiarize (yes or no)....is what EGW copied consistent with scripture (yes or no)? If what EGW copied is consistent with scripture, then, you have at least two people who are communicating to others what the Bible says. Where is the harm in that? Especially when she openly admitted to doing (using the writings of others) so in one of her more popular book, Great Controversy.
@@ineedrest7 Jesus by quoting OT scriptures was in fact quoting the very words He had given to the Prophets ,That was divine inspiration and not plagairism
EGW quoted from other authors but did not give credit to them,but instead said God had given it to her -that is plagairism ,lying and deceiving and you sir ,as a product of Adventism are duped ,you defend a plagairist ,a false prophet When are you going to have a backbone and defend the Bible and Jesus against this madness called Adventism
@@umabrijmohun6720 So, the problem is that she didn't give them credit? (1) Does this, by God's standards, disqualify her as a prophet? Yes or no? The "God had given it to her" phrase you used is in jeopardy if she uses the words of someone who came before her? (2) Are you certain that God did not lead her to those sources? Yes, you're certain or no, you're not certain? Because your opinion may change if you were to find out that God actually led her to those sources.
Duped? Naw. Not at all. From Genesis to Revelation, the writers of scripture were appointed to write as they were led by God. Nowhere in this does it mean that God gave them the literal words to use in each and every case w/ the understanding that if they deviated the message would be nullified. In other words, the writers were able to use their personality/their own voice when writing. For example, look at the gospels. There are stories that are told that are the same story but the wording is different. So, its clear that there is no "law" against using your words/the words of others as long as the message is being communicated. I've asked you two questions based on what you've said - do give an answer to them when you can.
The White Estate came to the conclusion of innocence first, then the reasons why. lol They want to maintain their money and status, of course! The vipers…
When I was in undergrad, I was in a class where I loved my professor but hated his assistance proff who was also teaching the class. Anyways, he gave us an assignment and I, being petty, had no desire to invest any of my time to research so I found an article and literally copied and pasted it, adjusted some words here and there and turned it in. I remember, I used quotes in a sentence and acknowledged the author, (using MLA and not APA) but for the rest of the paper, which was literally the rest of the author's work, I passed it off as my own.
Well, you can imagine my bubble guts when the provost of the university called me into her office to discuss how i had written the exact same paper as the original author. I was caught RED HANDED!!! Honey, I put on my best Angela Bassett performance and told that lady, I had no clue how the whole paper had turned out the way it did. 😅😅😮. I can imagine that EGW had to put on the same performances but then added in condemnation for a little razzle dazzle out of guilt.
Little did I know, i was following in the footsteps of our "prophetess." 😅😅 I was put on academic probation for a semester and NEVER did that shit again. I also learned a huge lesson; DO THE WORK!! It gives you credibility and personal integrity. Of which, EGW, never had.
The strongest and most overlooked argument against EGW's supposed prophetic gift is that scripture shows that God NEVER gave women prophetic authority by visions or dreams. Male prophets only were called to be God's messengers and Bible writers. Only five females are mentioned by name in scripture (Miriam, Deborah, Hulda, Noadiah, Anna), and none received a vision or dream from God, none wrote anything down, none held a divinely called leadership position in Israel or Judah, none ever addressed a mixed congregation or assembly or gave speeches, none were used by God more than once--never repeatedly, none ever manifested superhuman strength or gave signs or wonders to prove their "gift," none ever prophesied while disrespectfully lying on their back's when God was speaking to them. Women were not given a prophetic role by God. Only men were ordained to be divinely inspired authors and public spokesmen for God. God sternly reprimanded and punished Miriam for trying to usurp Moses' prophetic authority, and made it plain that he would communicate by visions and dreams with men--not women. (Num. 12:6; 2 Peter 1:21: Amos 2:11,etc.) Notice that God sent the male prophet, Agabus, to warn Paul, and did NOT use Philips' prophet daughters who resided in the same house where Paul was a guest. Also of note is that Deborah's name is not mentioned in Heb. 11. Only Barak is recognized as judge over Israel. ( Deborah was temporary judge.)
@@LaVerneSandridgeAmen and Amen 🙏
When is the following video coming out we are eager to hear it and thank you for opening this topic.
Unfortunately, I am very busy. It should be out before the end of August though.
This have been the best video I watch since I came out of the whole ellen white false teachings. Brother keep these videos coming God bless.
So glade I found this channel. I was raised in and had/have family who are in the highest positions of the Global SDA church. It all hinges on EGW being “the spirit of prophecy”. Because of this her writings are accepted as basically scripture and therefore can’t be questioned because the scriptures essentially talk about her. Have you heard of the Clear Word Bible? It has EGWs writings right alongside scripture in the Bible. This should be enough to discredit any person or church who would add anything to scripture. And no I don’t see the clear word Bible as a “commentary” but a work of heresy. From what I have read I believe that after the great disappointment and the split they were looking for something that was unique and set them apart from everyone else. And they found it. But as we know there is no “unique” message among different churches but one and one only. I can see that the SDA church has “done good works” with its health message, hospitals, universities, food companies but it has originated from a place of false doctrine. Again, Sabbath keeping is seen as the “seal” of Gods true people and not the Holy Spirit as stated in scripture. Such is the same with spirit of prophecy being Jesus Christ and of course not EGW. So much more to say. I’m enjoying the videos. Thanks
Thanks for stopping by.
Sabbath keeping is really the least of the damnable heresies which, if followed, will find a lot of people on the wrong side of heavens gate
Great work in your research and thank you for bringing this to the fore. This information is much needed and appreciated. Would you kindly share a bit of your bio with us including your name? Thank you so much.
I think it’s best if he doesn’t he is a former SDA that’s all we should know. You never know what the church may try to do.
Academy Apologia would be a good channel for you to explore. I am currently try listening to all of his videos. Looking forward to your upcoming videos.. God bless you.
Was introduced to yoru videos this weekend by a mutual acquaintance. Very interesting stuff so far. I can't wait to turn others to these videos
Thank you.
Excellent video, great documentation bro. Keep them coming.
Thanks Elce. I would recommend everyone to checkout Elce’s channel for great theological discussions on Adventism.
@@TesttheProphet blessings bro.
We have @E.-J. Thunder Lauriston and @AcademyApologia to learn from....and now we have a third.....@Test The Prophets.
The spirit of prophecy is having the testimony of Jesus, which every Christian have it’s the testimony OF JESUS
Hi Test The Prophet. When we can expect a new video to come out? Really looking forward to it 👌
Part 3 is out now.
This is good material to share, you could translate it into Spanish since I speak Spanish and I have many Spanish-speaking Adventist people and I was an Adventist too, I am learning this truth now.
I have added Spanish subtitles to the first two videos. Perhaps you can tell me how accurate the translation is? To view -- click CC, then click on settings and select Spanish.
@@TesttheProphet Why the other two videos do not have? It would be better if you translated the audio into Spanish some people are slow readers.
I haven't had time to add subtitles to 3 & 4 yet. I don't think there is a way to translate the audio into Spanish -- text only.
@@TesttheProphet Ok I understand, you can then add the subtitle in Spanish to the other two videos is that I want to share them. Thanks
I likely wont be able to add until later this year.
Felicitaciones, excelente investigación y enorme valentía al presentarla con sumo respeto.
Gracias Señor. Más por venir.
EGW: "You have to do what I say because I'm a God's messenger."
Me: "How do I know you're God's messenger?"
EGW: "Because I'm God's messenger and I said so."
The parallels between SDA and JW are significant.
Indeed. I keep looking, but I don't see any substantial evidence other than "because I said so".
If you look more into the history of trans-mediums at that time it’s seems like it was a huge trend. Defeating Adventism did a well researched video about it. Let me know if you want to check it out and I’ll drop a link.
@@davidfarr1976Yes. I have quite a bit of research on this.
Hey bro I really appreciate your approach to this. I have been fellowshipping with SDAs for the past few yrs, though I've been reluctant to consider myself as one. God had been teaching me about the sanctuary leading up to meeting them, and I was impressed that they taught this. Also I was a Sabbath keeper, and knew about the law in the new covenant. I've not actually read much of Ellen's writings, and have been reluctant to do so. Though I have many, as you know they give them out readily. I've been happy to test what they teach for myself, and have to trust God to lead me. Ive always been a sincere seeker, and have limited faith in man. So thanks for your videos, and I am prayerfully considering the challenges towards adventism.
You're welcome.
Read Hebrews chapter 7.
Soohhh, you have a Levitical priest kill two male lambs without blemish and offer a grain offering of fine flour mixed with oil, and a drink offering, as well as the regular daily burnt offering? You are deluded. Shabatt was a shadow and has not existed in 2,000 years. You have never kept Shabatt- it’s nonexistent.
@@rayray4192 I would have been kinder brother. But that works too I guess 😂
@@matthewtoves8919 most humans are big babies. If every word is not dripping in sweetness it’s not kindness. I was a deckhand in the Bering Sea. I don’t need soft words from anyone, and I rarely offer them up. Most men need to put their big boy pants on. I’m not mean or cruel to anyone. I’m actually incredibly gracious in person, and always looking for practical ways to give - especially to the downtrodden and depressed. Adventists piss me off. I find them to be disgusting pompous Pharisees. At times I’m not exactly sweet to them. Life is not always warm puppy kisses, and rainbows and unicorns. Most of my anger is me screaming at my dead Adventist health evangelist father who psychologically tortured his two daughters and his only son. Hope you understand. I’m working on it with the help of a brilliant psychologist. Hope you’re well and happy, and experiencing joy from time to time. Peace.
This is just a question for curiosity sake. How much of her writings are plagiarized? Was there anything of any substance that actually was original to her? I see all these excerpts you are showing and I can’t help but wonder, was this consistent throughout the entire books or just the pages you are showing?
Who is the speaker/author ?
Testing the Prophet God bless you brother. The truth will set us free, sometimes Adventists may feel a bit of discomfort when they realize the person whom they put so much hope in is just another author. But this discomfort is met by a true peace when we realize that the Bible and the Bible alone is the True Word of God, the ruler for our lives and by which all faith is to be tested. Also if you could discuss the vision where she held a heavy bible for several minutes without breathing (seemingly) since this may be used as evidence to show her vision was supernatural.
Thank you. I do plan on discussing her supernatural manifestations in the future.
Great Video It Proves she wasn't a profit
Wowww! I find myself nodding in agreement as I listened, uttering, "Hmm, and Umm, and Ohh..." because you were expressing the various sentiments and conclusions I have come to in reading some of EGW'S writings; of her Scriptural interpretations not being in alignment with the Bible; what has been written regarding her works - for and against - albeit not as thorough and indepth as yours. I understand your standpoint, and I'm exceedingly happy that you undertook this burden of work to reveal the "burden of proof," - for and against Adventism - and so the listener can come to their own conclusion.
I commend and applaud you and I'm greatly impressed, blown away, even, 🙂 at the depth of your research and the non-judgmental, non-argumentative, non condemming way of presenting this research. I can only imagine how you must have felt when those first questions arose, doing the research and finding your religious world crumbling around you - but instead of reverting to spiritual complacency, to what you have known all your life - like some would due to refusal or inability to face the truth - you persisted...and for that, again, I applaud you. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽...Your research has helped broaden my view of Adventism, increased my knowledge and made me fearless - not in challenging Adventism's beliefs - for everyone is entitled to their beliefs. But it has made me more confident in expressing my own Biblical beliefs, my thoughts regarding those beliefs - and what I think of their beliefs...Thank you, so much! Blessings 🙏🏾
Very welldone brother. God is shaking everything!
Great video, great presentation, and great resources. Well done!
Hey man is there any way I can contact you privately?
testtheprophet@outlook.com
@@TesttheProphet Thank you, email sent
Great work 😇 Keep going 👍
Every true Christian should immediately be able to recognize a false prophet by teology. Her entire teaching revolves around the literal Sabbath's day and pure legalism and THIS IS MAJOR RED LIGHT !!!
Paul explained in one sentence that Shabbat was but a shadow of Christ and was symbol of salvation without the works of man.
*"Let no man therefore judge you in food, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."* Colossians 2
*"But to him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."* Romans 4:5
Paul in Hebrews 4 even explains that Moses and Joshua did not provide rest to Israel when they entered the promised land because real spiritual rest is only by faith in Christ.
*"Come unto me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."* Mattew 11:28
Ask yourself who returns to the old shadows to seek your own justice in the law ?
The following passage from Galatians 3 is the answer to all the wrong theology of Adventists who want to be perfect through the fleshly fulfillment of the law. Paul even refers that whoever wants to be under the Law must be under the entire Torah, not just the chosen commandments.
*"O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ has been openly set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received you the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministers to you the Spirit, and works miracles among you, does he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know you therefore that they who are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In you shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they who are of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith"* Galatians 5
I was possessed in the SDA church and got deep depression. The elder would do devil horns “subconsciously”. I should have listened to my discernment. Even claiming aliens can be used by God to heal us, eating vegan no medications, completely ridiculous. Thanks for sabbath scripture.
"I don't know all the hoaxes of Christianity, but of those I do know, certainly Ellen White is the greatest."
Adventism is not Christianity. You're association is in error. The Jesus in adventism and the worldview is contradictory to actual Christianity. Adventism is a cult.
Well done brother. One alarming passage is where Ellen White admonishes that her books are to be sold everywhere. Not a singe passage in the Bible instructs Christians to sell the Bible or portions of the Bible as a method of spreading the gospel. Additionally, White does not write that the Bible should be sold everywhere. She was all about profit. Any honest investigator of Adventism will realize that it is not true. I have over 30 years of experience in the SDA world, born and raised, PK, who attended Adventist schools, elementary to college. You are on the right path. God bless.
Accurately stated and do Adventists today offer the bible during evangelizing or something else? We know they do not distribute the bible, but distribute Ellen White books and that tells us everything. Sola Ellen!
@@AcademyApologia Well said. I've never heard "Sola Ellen" but that is 100% accurate.
@@ExaminingTruth Sola Scriptura does not and cannot apply to the SDA, But Sola Ellen does and is much more accurate
Solid marketing strategy.
I'm just wondering dear, what do you think about selling the Bible, is it sinful or not?
If it is sinful, then why is there no global condemnation of this practice in the Christian world? Again if it is sinful, what do you think of the material usage in the entire process?
Again, you said it is absurdity for Ellen to talk about selling her books(to spread gospel) but why weren't you so much skeptical of Paul when he think he should get payment from the work of Gospel
1 Corinthians 9:9-14
[9]For it is written in the Law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing." God is not concerned about oxen, is He?
[10]Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing the crops.
[11]If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?
[12]If others share the right over you, do we not more? Nevertheless, we did not use this right, but we endure all things so that we will cause no hindrance to the gospel of Christ.
[13]Do you not know that those who perform sacred services eat the food of the temple, and those who attend regularly to the altar have their share from the altar?
[14]So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.
Now, Ellen said (for the sake of the materials use) that pple pay for her books
Paul said, he need n even deserve the right to earn his living from the gospel ministry.
Among the two, whom will u just more harshly , n y, n y not the other.
Again fo4 ur information (it was the design of God that they should benefit from the gospel labour, so don't judge or you b judge Mathew 7:1-2.
Dear, I know you are a truth-seeker but don't be too quick to make conclusion or else you will find yourself fighting God.
Acts 5:39
[39]but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God."
Thanks.
Such a humble and gracious man’s “Berean” example.
Hi.
I have a few questions wealth going through or responding to based on the contents of this video.
1. Did Ellen White claim that what she has written has never been written by anyone else before her?
2. Does the bible say a prophet or when someone is writing inspired words they cannot copy, or quote, or write something similar to, the things written by other writers before them?
3. Is there any situation where any canonical person quoted, copied or wrote something similar to, the writings or words of some other writer or speaker before their writing?
4. Are there instances where Ellen White quotes, copies or writes something similar to those in the bible without showing where she has extracted those ideas?
6. If the things written by a previous writer are correct and truth, whether inspired or not. And God inspires a latter prophet to teach on the same subject, which words should this latter prophet use? Does the bible teach that they should by all means avoid the words or wording used by the previous writer, or avoid the subject altogether for fear of writing something similar to someone unsinspired by God?
7. When testing the spirits/prophets, does the bible say we should use this method that you have employed here, thus seeing if their writings appear in any other persons writing before them?
All my questions are based on this video. I hope I will be answered based on the contents. May God bless the presenter and all that watch and read.
I rather recomend to use word "morality" instead of secular "ethic" considering religous groups and Ellen White. Ethic can be subiective in case of every group of people and can be changed, morality based on religious source, can't.
Great Job!!! Keep on going. 👍
God no longer speaks to man nor the messenger of God. Because the Bible is already complete. Anyone who says the messenger spoke to them is also contradicting the Holy Bible.
Not entirely an accurate statement. Hebrews 1 says that while in times past God spoke to us through the prophets he now speaks to us through his Son. We have no need of a modern prophet. Jesus is the perfect coalescence of prophet and priest. As our prophet he speaks as God to his people. As priest, after the order of Melchizedek, he intercedes for us, having offered his blood as a permanent atonement, he sat down at the right hand of the father, his priestly work completed. Jesus is the summation of it all. We don't need a modern prophet as we have Jesus Christ.
I'd like to ask, did you get out of this group? What group are you in now?
Hi Ken. I spend my time studying my Bible, the doctrines and history of Adventism, the subject matter of these presentations, and attending a local non-SDA church. I do not consider myself part of any group other than Christianity as a whole at this point.
No plans at this time.
my religion is grace, aleluia.
Thank you for this resource brother!
You're welcome.
I love to read the Healing ministry it helps me specialiy my physical condition n spirirtual life God Bless broder
The extremes mentioned in 9:30 are a little buggy, perhaps we can be a little more specific.
So well done, thank you for your research
Would you trust a messenger who doubted the message they were sent with No, of cause not.
Jer 23, 30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.
31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.
32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the Lord, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the Lord
Hi, you asked a very good question “why would she plagiarize instead of making something up”. I think I have the beginning of the answer. Is there a way I could txt you privately?
testtheprophet@outlook.com
Thankyou, Great info, well documented and sourced. I have subscribed Dr. Ez
Thank you. I am watching your interview with Dr. Steve Daily now. I am currently half way through his book. It is certainly one of the most broad books on the subject. Something Dr. Baldwin said in the video really resonated with me. He said something to the effect that most people have an opinion without studying why they have that opinion. This is so prevalent in the SDA church. EGW is held onto without anyone asking why they hold on to her. Many state it is because her writings are beautiful and point to Christ. She cannot be held onto because she has "beautiful writings" when many of those beautiful writings are simply from other authors! It's like putting together a symphony using the greatest melodies from all of the great composers and then being praised for your conglomeration. And yet this is a frequent defense I see.
@@TesttheProphet That is great! So glad that you are doing this, someone private messaged me your video today, I have shared both on my FB page, it will cause a warfare but i'm use to it. God is doing a grand work to expose and uplift the gospel at the same time. God Bless you for being a part of this and the hrs of work for HiS glory. Dr. Ez, Pr. Art
Ellen G. White, Copyright, And Plagiarism
Ellen G. White is not guilty of copy-right infringement or plagiarism. This is the opinion of Vincent L. Ramik, senior partner of Diller, Ramik & Wight, Ltd., an lawyer who practices patent, trademark, and copyright law in Washington, D.C. Mr. Ramik undertook to research Mrs. White’s writings after Warren L. Johns, chief legal officer of the General Conference, retained the services of Diller, Ramik & Wight last April because of allegations made against Mrs. White by Walter Rea, at that time pastor of the Long Beach, California, church. Ramik, a Roman Catholic, spent more than 300 hours researching about 1,000 relevant cases in American legal history. He concluded his 27-page legal opinion* with an unequivocal declaration:
“Based upon our review of the facts and legal precedents . . . Ellen White was not a plagiarist, and her works did not constitute copyright infringement/piracy.”
The legal report was delivered to John’s office late last month. It responds specifically to six questions:
1. Was there a Federal copyright law between the years 1850 (when Ellen White first published) and 1915 (the year of her death) granting literary property rights to authors? If so, what was the essence of such law? Did it substantially differ from copyright law in 1981?
2. Was the payment of royalties by publishers a standard legal and business practice at that time?
3. Were licensing agreements for the use of literary property standard business practice at that time?
4. Was there a standard literary practice to use quotation marks, footnotes, and bibliographical citations in literary works that utilized the literary property of other authors?
5. What case law is available between 1850 and 1915 that might suggest the extent of an author’s protection
against literary piracy?
6. Is there anything within the published works of Ellen G. White that would suggest literary piracy (Federal copyright infringement) within the standards existing between 1850 and 1915?
Ellen White’s literary output reportedly approximated 25 million words during a writing career spanning nearly 70 years. A number of the 90-plus books, including compilations, from her pen in print today have been translated into as many as 100 languages.
The fact that Mrs. White incorporated quotations and paraphrased materials from other authors (principally historians of the Reformation era and contemporary nineteenth-century devotional writ ers) in her books and articles has itself never been at issue. She, during her lifetime, and church officials, subsequently, have repeatedly acknowledged such use. But Walter Rea undertook the task of identifying the various sources of that literary borrowing. This study demon stated that Mrs. White had borrowed more extensively than had been estimated previously.
Ramik discovered that many of the books from which Mrs. White borrowed were not in fact copyrighted. But, he continued, even if they had been thus protected by law, her utilization of phraseology and even multiple paragraphs did not in law constitute copyright infringement, nor plagiarism.
“If the issues had been court-tested between 1850 and 1915, Ellen G. White emphatically would not have been convicted of copyright infringement,” concluded Ramik.
The law specialist found it ironic that Mrs. White’s sternest critics themselves offer “the best evidence available” to support a position of noninfringement.
“Nowhere,” Ramik pointed out, “have we found the books of Ellen G. White to be virtually the ‘same plan and character throughout’ as those of her predecessors. Nor have we found, or have critics made reference to, any intention of Ellen White to supersede . . . [other authors] in the market with the same class of readers and purchasers.” Instead, she invariably introduced considerable new matter to that which she borrowed, going far beyond mere “colorable deviations,” and, in effect, created an altogether new literary work.
Furthermore, “the sheer ‘compilation’ of the works of Ellen G. White necessarily reflects her labor and skill. So long as she did not (and the evidence clearly establishes that she did not) draw from any prior works ‘to a substantial degree,’ she remains well within the legal bounds of ‘fair use.’
“Moreoever, so long as the materials were selected from a variety of sources, and were ‘arranged and combined with certain passages of the text of the original work, and in a manner showing the exercise of discretion, skill, learning, experience, and judgment,’ the use was ‘fair.’”
Intent is a chief ingredient that must be demonstrated in plagiarism cases; and Ramik believes he has proved not only from Mrs. White’s own published statements but indeed from the admission of some of her critics themselves, that she did not intend to defraud in the borrowing of other literary productions.
“Proceeding with but the highest motivations and intentions,” said Ramik,
Mrs. White, in fact “modified, exalted, and improved” much of that which others wrote, in a manner entirely ethical, as well as legal.
“It is impossible to imagine that the intention of Ellen G. White, as reflected in her writings and the unquestionably prodigious effort involved therein, was anything other than a sincerely motivated and unselfish effort to place the understandings of Biblical truths in a coherent form for all to see and comprehend.
“Most certainly, the nature and content of her writings had but one hope and intent, namely, the furthering of mankind’s understanding of the word of God.”
In his summation, Ramik concluded, “Considering all factors necessary in reaching a just conclusion on this issue, it is submitted that the writings of Ellen G. White were conclusively unplagiaristic.”
adventistbiblicalresearch.org/sites/default/files/pdf/plagiarist.pdf
See Also:
www.ellenwhiteanswers.org/answers/plagiarism/
Walter Rea is a study demon? Are we at name calling already?
Ksilas, have you read the Ramik report? Do you know what the criteria was for his conclusion? If you haven't I suggest you study instead of copy and pasting websites. I will be discussing the Ramik report and associated issues in the next two videos if you're interested, but I'm assuming your mind is closed at this time.
@@TesttheProphet in fairness I think ‘demon stated’ was an autocorrection of ‘demonstrated’. Thank you for your research and time invested in these videos. I have been following them with interest as a lifelong SDA who never did understand the IJ theory or Sunday law prophecies. Instead I have recently found a new understanding of the NT exploding with the good news of new covenant, the new commandments Jesus gives us in the light of the sermon on the mount, the beatitudes, in all his teachings and examples.
Jesus is the fulfilment of the old covenant and laws. He is our Shabbat and in him alone we rest.
I no longer pay ‘homage’ to the Sabbath or see it as the big ‘test of faith’ however I have come to appreciate the blessing of setting aside a day for worship, time with family and to enjoy nature. A time for reflection and to nourish my soul.
My church family are a small fellowship of good traditional SDA people, most of whom would not agree with me but are non judgemental and we worship in a spirit of love and respect.
Is your whole series will contain only 8 films and nothing more?
No. The introductory mini-series will be somewhere around 8, but then I will begin on individual books and certain topics. Sketches from the Life of Paul alone will be around 20 videos. Part 3 should be out this weekend.
@@TesttheProphet Do you also have plan to make simllar films about other religions or you are flouid only in the context of Adventism?
Only Adventism as that is what I have been familiar with.
@@TesttheProphet Good, i hope you also mention about Islam issue in Adventism.
@YAJUNYUAN Type down "Seventh day Adventism and Islam, Dwight Nelson, John Carter" and you will find documentary film in English that i did about it
👍 .. ✝️🛐 .. 🙏
Those poor people who lived prior to EGW were in rough shape. 😬
Thanks for this series 👍🏾
Thank you for your video, looking forward to hearing more !
We must be About Our Father’s BUSINESS Church Family! 🤟🏿💯🖖🏿
Matthew 11:13
For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
L'esprit de la prophétie c'est le Saint Esprit. 😮 pas une humaine !
Merci pour ces vidéos bien documentées et expliquées.
Dans ses propres écrits,elle dit de ne pas faire passer ceux- ci avant la Bible,et ensuite elle se proclame infaillible 😮 et prévient ceux qui mettent en doute ceux-ci,quelle manipulation .
Not all adventist believe ellen white only bible alone thank u brod r for exlaining to us sda God Bless
You have done deep research. Great Job. People will still keep her books distributed, than give out the Bible itself.
About 14 minutes in on your video you make a statement from Ellen White how she says that God wrote his law in her mind and heart. That doesn’t contradict the Bible whatsoever and as true Christians we should claim that promise, which she is clearly doing.
Hi. You must be referring to 13:53 -- You will notice if you re-listen to this section, that I did not say God wrote his law on her heart and mind, but that in her quote she wrote that the truth included in these three books was traced in her heart and mind just like the law was traced upon the tables of stone. Hope that helps.
Funny how Jesus is warning us about her !
The book" The Desire of Ages Have 835 pages?How many pages did copied from other Authors?If you've found 1 or two paragraph or even sentences to that seems shes relied or copied from other Authors,when her writing Ong that book come up to almost 1000 pages?Can you show even 50 pages in Desire of Ages that she was copied from other Authors,or only that 2 sentences,or paragraph in that book?Show us more in the book of Desire of Ages!
So that we can prove that that book of Desire of Ages was copied or plagerize from the other Authors.
For if not,you are telling a lie...
And I can prove you that even in the Bible,Matthew,Mark ,Luke ,John,has many instances,have the same writings.Do you mean that they are relying each other,or copying each other,or plagerizing other authors?Or just because the have one guide which is the Holy Spirit?
How much of Desire of Ages would need to be based on other writers for you to say something is wrong?
The bible is our foundation, our life , our light our truth & gives us god give hope....
Not EGW & her opinions & idealism in her books.
@@TesttheProphetjust answer her..
I'm not a SDA. I don't have any thoughts good or bad on Ellen White., How do you know that instead of plagiarism, it's God given everybody this message like a chain text.
...She took works that were not hers...told everyone she saw the things she read as visions...and then claimed these were given to her by God. Understand?
An amazing video idea would be examining the plagiarism of Ellen white when she is supposedly directly (in parenthesis) quoting God or an angel and even that is direct plagiarize.
I appreciate your honesty. I'm now atheist/ antitheist in part of this fact.
Look up "THE CRUCIFIX FISH - WHAT THE CRUCIFIX FISH REVEALS"
Is this a serious comment? You went SDA to atheist because Ellen White isn't actually a prophet?
@Dustin S no, that's why I stated "in part."
@@darknight8139 I'm still a bit confused. Mind if I asked what made you go atheist? I've heard that some people go atheist when they leave SDA because "the system of SDA programs you to believe either in SDA or nothing", but I'm not sure exactly what one is thinking when they believe that.
@Dustin S there we're many variables that lead to my unbelief. I'd say the biggest proponent of my deconversion was God's divine hiddeness. This wasn't an easy deconversion for me I didn't just walk away from the church and automatically not believe in any God's it was a process. I wanted fervently to hold to faith in God, but atlas I couldn't reasonably hold to it with my own doubts being answered by science and also from experience or non-experience with the Devine.
This should be a 2 minute video. Read Deut 18:22. A prophet must be correct 100% of the time. EGW was wrong repeatedly. End of debate.
Many of the topics that have plagued Adventism are not easily covered in two minutes. You have to understand Adventist apologists have been working tirelessly for decades on rebuttals and loopholes for many different subjects. A two minute video would not be enough to approach these topics.
A prophet does not have to be correct for them 100% of the time, all less than 100% are conditional prophecies.
@@TesttheProphet I was being facetious on the “2 minute video” part.
Are you suggesting that a 80-90% success rate is “close enough” - that God can miss the mark 10-20% of the time? 😳
@@Jaco3688 Yes that success rate is permissible by SDA apologists because anything less than 100% is accepted as "conditional".
@@TesttheProphet Like nailing jello to the wall. lol
So if Paul quotes peter Paul is a false apostle?
Are you stating that the people she copied line after line of writings from are like Peter?
She herself said they are from God direct to her
Where do you address the fact that Ellen White had her first vision in 1844. Then she started writing her books from 1851. Her first was 'A sketch if the christian experience and views'. DoA is the expansion of her continuing visions and her books 'Spiritual gifts', which were written soon after in 1858. Where is your proof that Harris and March didn't actually copy Ellen White?
Who published the section in question first-March/Harris or Ellen?
What you presented was a very compelling argument, and as of right now i have no answer to this, though this has compelled me to study more into this issue. However as an SDA, genuine question here: What does egw gain to profit from being a false prophet? She was never rich, she never gained "fame", and was even shunned/rejected by many church leaders in her era. She was so poor she never ate proper meals, was in poor health and was always weak (assuming this part of history is accurate). Not saying this is any sort of convincing argument, just food for thought. Only thing i can think of now, is that she was a very genuine....false prophet?
The Holy Spirit Agrees with itself. The men who wrote later books of the Bible almost used word for word quoting earlier books of the Bible. When I came to know Christ I found I was almost quoting some things I later read in her writings that I had never read before. Also my dad was a born again Christian he many a time said and has said things and ideas that were in her writings and he has never read her witting . I believe the Holy Spirit does not have to ask for permission to use His own Ideas. My brothers test all things hold fast to that which is good. Let us turn from our cherished sins repent God will have mercy we can get the Victory. We can do all things through Christ who strengthen us. Phil 4:8 her writings are a blessing to us. please read for yourself.
No one has claimed that quoting scripture is unethical.
The biblical authors never tried to conceal their sources and claim them as their own. The biblical authors when quoting other works depended on their audience knowing the sources he was quoting from. The opposite is true of EGW. She attempted to pass off huge amounts of content as her own. When her copy editors realized what was happening eventually....they were horrified.
Joseph Smith and other false "prophets" all have claimed the same thing.
One way of testing if one is a prophet from God we are instructed in 1Thessalonians 5:19-21 and Isaiah 8:20 what is required of us. Let us prove two of sister White's early experiences as recorded in the book Early Writings.
1) Her first vision recorded on.pp.13 to 20. And 2) That what she stated took placed, at the end of the 2300 days prophecy as recorded on.pp.54 to 56.
After 1843 and then 1844 failed she and Bates readjusted to the year 1851...woops....She prohesized that she and numerous others alive during her time would live to see the second coming im 1856...but they are ALL dead ...woops. She claimed from 1844 to 1851 that the door of mercy was shut to the whole world except her and her little cult...(shut door theory)....woops...then she denied she ever believed or said any of those things. Except if you read her letters from 1844 to 1851 its all there....woops. Maybe look for yourself instead of allowing yourself to be abused.
Ellen stole her first vision from Turner. She was a liar and a thief.
How about simply reading Deut 18:22. Almost all of her prophecies failed to come true. She would’ve been stoned, if she lived in the OT times
I’ll be covering her prophecies. The subject of EGW is far to vast to cover all at once.
In Book "The Desire of Ages page 57.And it was only at the end of the 22nd paragraph,3rd sentences to the last,and it has 25 paragraphs,how long is that chapter contained,but he found a 1 single sentence that it seems alike from other authors,then you conclude that the book "The Desire of Ages was Plagerize!Are you a truth seeker or faultfinder?
Perhaps there is more to this subject than you are aware of. I hope you continue to watch this series.
"The preacher SOUGHT TO FIND OUT ACCEPTABLE WORDS: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth." - Ecclesiastes 12:10
Remember Lucifer is the light bearer ❤️
I feel there is a dark undertone to this channel a preseption of doom and gloom to the author . There is still time to change . I can't return.
What does that even mean?
👋🏾 see ya
(1) Is it plagiarism if EGW copied a historical or biblical fact?
(2) Is it plagiarism if EGW copied the idea/reasoning of another author?
(3) Is there proof that God did not lead her to use material from others?
(4) Is plagiarism a biblical rule; disqualifying EGW from being a prophet of God?
(5) If what EGW copied is consistent with scripture, does that change your view?
(6) If you were to discover that God led EGW to the writings of others , would your view change?
(7) Is it more important that she copied from others and is held "accountable" for not citing her sources each and every time? Or, is the message she writing about the most important?
...just a thought...
EGW did infact cite her "source".....either it was all from God or all from satan. The similarities between her "God-given"/ angel and human authors are remarkable.
@@LoCoWi If it "all came from God" then why is she accused of plagiarism? God said nothing about EGW committing plagiarism. If so, where did He do so? But if some/all came from Satan, what reference do you have as evidence?
"If it "all came from God" then why is she accused of plagiarism?"
-She is accused of plagiarism because it is evident her writings (as in these two examples from Desire of Ages) can be easily explained by non-supernatural sources while she describes her writings as being formed by supernatural means. I know you will respond "we cannot say God didn't tell her these things". But if you see the blueprint I feel it is more unreasonable to infer the supernatural as an explanation.
“The larger books, "Patriarchs and Prophets," "Great Controversy," and "Desire of Ages," should be sold everywhere. These books contain truth for this time,- truth that is to be proclaimed in all parts of the world…Sister White is not the originator of these books. They contain the instruction that during her life-work God has been giving her. They contain the precious, comforting light that God has graciously given his servant to be given to the world.” -Advent Review and Sabbath Herald from January 20, 1903
You said in the pinned discussion of this video...
"I believe if we were to find out that God actually led her to those sources it would change the claim against her."
-Well, we will never find that out until we get to heaven. And if we cannot verify this side of heaven, why do we want to ignore the warning signs of false claims?
You said:
"However, I want to be clear that I agree with the conclusion that she should have cited her sources. Not doing so opens the door for claims that she plagiarized."
-Thank you for being honest that not citing sources opens the doors for the reasonable claims many have made.
You said:
"God said nothing about EGW committing plagiarism."
-God hasn't called out Joseph Smith either. Both prophets cannot be true as they contradict each other. Why didn't he write in the sky one of them is false? Because he gave us intellect and a mind to discover these for ourselves. If something smells you investigate the source of the smell, you do not simply say "God says nothing about the smell".
@@TesttheProphet (1) What about the other considerations I listed? (2) Are you personally ruling out the possibility that Satan could have used him (Dudley M. Canright) to sow seeds of deception regarding EGW and her writings when he left the SDA church? All of this must be considered in your research. Right?
&&&"He gave us intellect and a mind to discover these for ourselves." See Prov. 3:1-6.
Finally, shouldn't the Bible be the only rule of measurement that matters here? Shouldn't God have the final say regarding the relevancy of EGW writings? Joseph Smith and others do not fit the Biblical tests of a prophet. I believe EGW does.
***Isn't the literal word of God our "verification" this side of Heaven? See Heb. 4:12, Rev. 19:10, & Isa. 8:20. Either it is or its not. Simple and plain.
Canright could have been led just as easily by the Devil as Ellen White. What’s your point? My studies did not begin with Canright, although later on I did find he is one of the first that brought up issues. Which is somewhat notable since he did know her personally. I’m sure you have noticed the SDA church has done a good job in decimating his character/reputation. But to answer your question…all players in the game must be examined.
“See Prov. 3:1-6.”
-Ha! You can’t just pluck that verse out and use it when you disagree with someone in an attempt to shut down their arguments. Come on, man. I expected better from you.
We are invited to put the prophets to scrutiny. Paul himself commended the Bereans for testing if that he was teaching was true. How did the Bereans test if Paul's teachings were true? By the comparing them to scripture. How should we test if what EGW says is true? By comparing it to Scripture. Every prophet in the Bible had to be tested with what the truth that had been revealed prior to that prophet's time. To the law (pentateuch) and the testimony (the writings of previous prophets) if they do not speak according to this is because there is no light in them Isa 8:20
I can see how you may have felt deceived or betrayed by what you were taught while growing up in adventism. I believe your doubts and questions may have been cleared by a correct understanding of revelation and inspiration.
Do you realize that the plagiarism charge had already been debunked? The guidance of the holy spirit wasn't a verbatim message. Her emphasis was based on the guidance of what to write. It was inspired by the Holy Spirit. The same Spirit that inspired to write what she wrote is another way as when Paul quoted a proverb from the pagans in Acts 17. Look up the plagiarism charge with Ramik. She quoted from other authors not to say that it is hers but rather guidance.
You cannot be serious about the plagiarism being debunked.
Huh... *rips proverbs out of his Bible.*
@Test the Prophet
I'm looking at the 24 min. 23 second mark. If this example is "plagiarism" then Jesus is guilty of it as well. So is everyone in scripture who quoted the same/similar words from those who came before them. Also, I disagree that the "burden of proof" mentioned just before the 4 min mark, rests on her writings. There'd be no writings if God didn't choose her. So, the burden of proof lies with God and the Bible with regard to the establishment of a prophet for this time.
What do you mean "There'd be no writings if God didn't choose her."
@@TesttheProphet I mean just that. The SDA belief regarding the Gift of Prophecy is clear that God appointed EGW to be a prophet for this time. Unless of course you believe that God didn't make this designation for her or at all. Personally, there'd be no EGW/EGW writings if God didn't appoint her/choose her to be the prophet for this time. With regard to her relevancy as a prophet one must begin with the Bible and what God says.
I do not understand why you believe there would be no EGW/EGW writings if God didn't appoint her/choose her to be the "prophet" for the last days. How did you come to that conclusion? Are you saying without God's help she would not be able to write so much material?
@@TesttheProphet I arrive at that conclusion based on scripture. The Bible teaches the gift/spirit of prophecy doctrine right? If you disagree, then, that's really the source of this-not her writings. However, since the Bible teaches this doctrine, its by faith that I believe EGW was appointed by God to speak, write, etc. as a messenger of God for this time. Therefore, I disagree with the notion/conclusion that she would have written Steps to Christ, Desire of Ages, Great Controversy, etc. *on her own* w/out being inspired/led by God.
No. I'm not saying that she would not have been able to write so much material without God's help. I'm literally saying that (its probable) EGW would have been just another woman...no inspired writings at all, no connection to the SDA church, etc. *if God did not appoint her as a prophet for this time.* Simply put, either God appointed her as a prophet or He didn't. That's the foundation for whether or not she's considered a prophet of God. So, if she's appointed by God based on scripture, then, her writings are in order and her standing is w/out question. If not, she's a fraud-plain and simple. I hope that's clear...
If we test the "prophet" and find the "writings" are not hers and were taken from other's without giving the true author credit. it is not honest and cannot be of God.
I doubt much of what Ellen White wrote was inspired. But not on this point of "plagiarism." People borrowed each other's writings significantly in her day. Similar to how you or I or some other person shares a meme on a Facebook page; we don't cite where we got the meme and when and who created the meme. Such citations were uncommon in her day as well and with all published content. I will admit she pushed the boundary way too far with borrowing so much content for the Great Controversy. But still not illegal or 'sinful' by social standards in her day. Today's strict plagiarism laws did not exist prior until very recent (i.e., 1989 in the United States). In EGW's 1800s world, what she did would be considered repurposing information to make a new point.
Why were they served with cease and desist letters for infringing on copyright law then? This is easily verifiable. When looking for the truth do not start at a conclusion.
I am surprised that in your endeavour of testing if EGW was a true prophet you have largely ignored what God himself has said in His Word are the test of a true prophet
Make predictions that “come to pass” (Jeremiah 28:9)
Glorify God rather than themselves (John 16:13)
Do not give their own private interpretations (2 Peter 1:20, 21)
Point out sin (Micah 3:5-8)
Warn of coming judgment (Isaiah 24:20, 21)
Edify the church (1 Corinthians 14:3, 4)
Give messages that harmonize with the Bible (Isaiah 8:20)
Teach that Jesus came in the flesh (1 John 4:1-3)
Have a Christ-like character (Matthew 7:16-20).
Are obedient to the will of God (Deuteronomy 18:18).
It seems to me that you appreciate your reasoning as higher than that of God.
Reasoning higher than God!?!?....so ....
Mary Baker Eddie - Christian science .
Joseph smith - Mormon.
Charles taze Russell - jehovah witnesses.
Ann Lee - the shakers.
John humphrey - the oneida community.
Emanuel swedenborg - spiritualism.
John Thomas - christadelphians.
Ellen White - 7th day adventist....just to name a few
And guess what.... they came out of the US in the 1800's.... who claimed to be divinely inspired.... and they are all cults!
Nici să nu mai aud de adventisti
Brilliant explanation of a biblical harlot. She was truly a false prophetess that spread a doctrine of demons.
Do you believe in thought inspiration or verbal inspiration. That makes a difference in how you understand the Bible and secondarily EGW writings. Multiple sincere, men and women throughout history have experienced thought inspiration and their writings are from God as long as they agree with the Bible. Your example in min 16 about how EGW used the words and ideas of a previous christian author are an example of that. You seemed to believe that the author of the book where she borrowed the idea from was a simple human uninspired person, I happen to disagree. God can speak through whoever submits to the Him. Paul encourages us to seek to prophesy (1 Cor 14:1,39) but we are not all prophets. Paul for example quoted from external sources, "uninspired" and those words are now in the Bible and considered the Word of God.
Why do you keep saying Ellen White "IS" the Spirit of Prophecy? As if the Spirit and Ellen White are one in the same? You need to address that sir.
An intensified campaign of resistance has been unleashed against a group that has compassion for what is happening with so much loss of life! It is not fitting that this group would like to show the world, to look Up, from where Deliverance from the troubles of this world will soon come. They don't want to admit that the planet is altered by sin, it is no longer our house!
Is originality a test of inspiration? The answer is no.
Honesty is.
@@thankfully1202 Did she "lie?" Or was it that the perception of her "being inspired" misunderstood/misrepresented? I'll be the first to say she's a false prophet if lying was present in her writings. But, again, where did she "lie?" The perception/misperception of her role and her lying in her writings are two different things.
@@frazierwoods9912 Yes, she said her writings were given her by God when she "borrowed" them from other books.
@@thankfully1202 You just made my point regarding the misunderstanding/misrepresentation of being inspired. I mentioned an article that talks about this in another comment you made.
@@frazierwoods9912 It is not a misunderstanding. If you say you got the info from God but directly copied another person's book that is a lie. And not only a lie but holds SDA members in the cult without ability to question. If she had said she was inspired by something she read from another author and gave him credit that would be another situation. But the way she did it was morally unscrupulous that makes her not credible as a true prophet or even a true believer. I understand your trying to defend her, I did it myself for 22 years. I lost my family over fighting against the evidence that I was in a cult. It is a hard pill to swallow but if you will honestly check out the facts you will understand the truth.
Everything you quoted from Ellen White has only made me read her writings more. I see no problem with those and therefore wondering why you're mixing the truth with error in what you are saying. She herself considered her writings as the lesser light that leads people to the greater light which is the Bible. I have been reading her writings for almost 20 years now. Never did I saw a contradictions with the Bible. And yet to see an author who quoted Bible as extensively as her. If only people read her writings it will only lead them Christ for she points to Christ almost in every sentence. Mercy my friend... Praying for you.
...and everything I have quoted from Ellen White has only made me want to read the Bible more. That was her mission right?
Thanks for the prayers.
"Never did I saw a contradictions with the Bible" - Ellen White denies Christ's authority and equality with God from the Beginning:
Ellen White and early Adventist had declared Christ to be a created being. Ellen White herself declared that Christ was subservient to the Father before the fall read her own words "Satan was envious of Christ, and in his ambition assumed command which DEVOLVED on Christ alone." - "The great Creator assembled the heavenly host, that he might in the presence of all the angels CONFER special honor upon his Son. The Son was seated on the throne with the Father, and the heavenly throng of holy angels was gathered around them. The Father THEN MADE KNOWN that it was ordained by himself that Christ SHOULD BE EQUAL with himself; " - read that last sentence again
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Scripture: In the BEGINNING was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
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At no point in scripture do we see Christ before the fall of man was a created being, subservient, and then in a heavenly council, God the Father decides to then make Christ equal with Himself. This is a plain denial of Christ' deity. Stronger opposition to His deity by Ellen White was removed from her later published works. So seems that the 'prophet' had to have her divine pronouncements redacted
I was led to this video via deception. Someone representing Ellen White. It's rather odd that they felt the need to use deceptive activity in order to pull me in. However, I've been investigating her as well. But I'm not all in for either side of this discussion. I'm simply here because someone deceived me and decided to watch the series anyway. I will also say that it is curious that he reads her writings to wgere she admits to using other authors as inspiration and gives credit in a way that actually sounds more like she's saying that the author that inspired hwr was inspired by GOD. If we come into something with our hearts set on an outcome, that will likely be the only outcome qe will achieve. That being said to help us not simply go all in to obe direction. There are things However i still question, so I'll see if those questions can be further answered or not, here.
I think there will be a great price to pay for subverting the works of a prophet of God
They used to stone false prophets you know.
Ya they used to burn women in Salem USA because they thought they were witches , they were just women. But you know that God didn’t chose her.
@@oldgeeser Its unfortunate. I recall her prophecy saying she and quite a few other people would not die before the second coming of our Lord. Woops. If she had been correct we wouldnt get to have this exchange.
Well all I can say is , do as you will. But whichever way it goes you will have to take responsibility.
No Sir. When it is time to make an account of myself I will simply point to Christ. As should you.
"If you say you are going to test her, you are immediately met with pushback". Perhaps that happened to you or someone you know but that is not a true adventists position.
You make the mistake of measuring the doctrine by the people and not the people by the doctrine. Before presenting any evidence you first lay the seeds of doubt by building a a false image of who adventists are. You use verbage similar to that which describes a reckless, blind cult following.
This message you being cannot be from God because you attack the character of the people you are trying to undermine before presenting the evidence. This is the way Satan operates not God.
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
John 8:44 KJV
Is this pointed at Ellen White, the author of this video, or are you simply posting a passage of scripture?
@@davidfarr1976 The Truth said these words to teach us that liars don't belong to him, no matter if they are apostles, angels, prophets, church founders, RUclipsrs, people who wrote books or just comments like both of us. Just remember that Satan said truths and lies to convince Eve in the garden.
@@silviomp Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. If call him your Lord and Saviour then I call you my brother.
@@davidfarr1976 Then we're gonna meet each other in Heaven, my brother! Here on Earth we'll have leaders who might lie, but we need to stick with the words of Jesus and have our lives driven by the Spirit.
Why are you judging me as a liar?