Do police officers need additional training to handle domestic violence situations? Do Police officers receive adequate training on how to de-escalate situations? Please leave you comment below. Thank You!
@@RealWomenRealStories yes I believe they do need additional training to handle DV! In many situations the abuser is very calm and a great liar, making his victim look like she’s the cause or like she’s making things up.
They know they just don’t gone a 💩.. a piece of paper will never protect you and each time they break the order your at risk and need to report and document.. at the same time is ls fueling their anger with you and literally poking the coals on the already fuel filled fire.. way too many women have died like this after reaching out for help to family and law enforcement. They also let them out early or only hold them briefly without charge . You should ask the question of law enforcement after many decades of women that ask for help are they still dying, while the ex is never charged or sentence is reduced if any.. and another woman dies .. maybe ask them why don’t they change they way they treat these cases or why they release them way early and often don’t tell the victim they are being released so at least they can protect themselves/ move / hide ..
@@RealWomenRealStories Police need to be vetted for their own beliefs. If it’s a “boys club” for the most part, and they defend each other by breaking the law themselves they should be held accountable. Who should be the judge and jury? The victim’s family and friends. Let’s start levelling the playing field. Why should the victims be sitting on the benches?
This is so frustrating! Shame on that detective that was like "she's sarcastic and lippy, you'd smack her around too". Shame on everyone tbh. They handled this situation so incredibly poorly. RIP Pam. She did everything right.
In the USA, three women are murdered every day by an intimate partner. Little has changed since this documentary aired. So tragic that women aren't safe even with Restraining Orders. Rest in peace Pam🌹
This "I'm not taking sides" attitude was very popular with authority figures in the 80's. In middle school I was assaulted in a completely unprovoked attack. We were each grabbed by an ear and hauled out of a school assembly to the principal's office. Where we both received the exact same lecture and punishment. Together. I told the principal that I hadn't done anything and I think he believed me. But he said this is policy and seemed to think he had done a good job. Watching that cop ignore his guilty conscience brought me right back to 1986. I think he could have been a good cop and no doubt was considered to be such at the time. As you might imagine, my peers and I hated cops. Mediocrity rules
It is interesting that the police downplay the criminality( threats of violence , violence, and myriad other offences) of the situation by calling it "a domestic dispute."So very, very tragic. The justice system failed her and her children.
Women need to avoid bad boys and stop blaming the system for their bad choices. If you don't leave the first time a man is violent l feel very little sympathy for you, especially when you allow your children to experience abuse
@@DonnellOkafor_hateslgbtq Would you consider yourself better than a bad boy? If yes,how? Because last time I checked your biological NATURE and neurological wiring is animalistic. How different are you?😏
Judge was full of sympathy foe Gunther and pointed out how horrible it must have been for him the past year. Not a word that his wife suffered 15 years of his disgusting violence.
I get sick hearing those males talking about "her fault"!!! 🤬🤬🤬🤬 THERE IS NO VICTIMS'S FAULT IN ANY ABUSE!!!!! You do not abuse or kill people!!! You just DON'T!
You know what makes me sick that anybody would put their hands on anyone.! The title was exactly for my mother. Imagine being 12 years old and can't help her. My dad is still 6'3 growing up watching him be in the bodybuilder with a v-cut body shape built like a tank, throwing my mom around which is 5 foot 5 5 ft 6 on a good day. I'm glad you got me and my brother out of there when she did. What's even more sickening she had 5 sisters that never helped her because they were scared of my dad!! NO my motive is I see something I will say something. I am that Kodiak bear.
"If you have to fight off aggression where you live, that's not your home. That's just the house of your testimony. It's time to relocate." ~T.F. Hodge
The police almost caused my Moms death too. She had several restraining orders that he walked right through. He knew that the police were always going to just keep on releasing him or they would simply give up after trying to call him one or twice… she had at least a dozen broken noses that I remember, countless broken ribs, black eyes, bruised finger prints left where he choked her until she would pass out, etc. they just kept letting him go!! He even chased her across several states to find her, once he even broke into her sister’s home to find out our new address. She knew better than to try and fight him anytime he found her or she’d be murdered right in front of all of us kids. Finally he molested me just before I turned 12, and that was finally a big enough charge to get him sent to prison. But they never took into account all those times I called 911 as a little girl, the oldest of five kids, always left behind to watch my siblings as he chased and beat her. I was terrified he’d kill her before the police intervened. He was sentenced to 18 years in prison in 1993 and then was let out on good behavior only 4 years later. Thank God my Mom wasn’t his main focus any longer by that time. Prison scared him. He found a new victim though, they always do… please leave if you’re being abused. There’s no more horrifying sound or sight to a child than hearing their momma get beat up or seeing her be choked or beaten until she’s unconscious. I’ll never get those sounds or terrifying memories out of my head.
It was HIS actions of BEATING her that made her leave him in the first place.....That doesn't give him the right to shoot her because she has a boyfriend...Get a DIVORCE!
I experienced an "ex" that terrorized me, beat me, raped me. I received the same response from Police just like Pam. I Pray and Hope that these Domestic "situations" are handled better to Protect the ones Police are to Serve. I had to leave my situation in a hurry, I did not look back. To ALL those women out there dealing with someone like this...Take my advice, do whatever it takes and Save Yourself, Save Your Kids and Get Out.
The guy at the end saying that "anyone would be angry seeing her kissing someone else in front of their children" is just crazy... wtf. So he can beat her up, threaten to kill, and yet still have the right to get angry over her trying to get a new life? What is wrong with these so called "experts"?!?!?!
Thank you for posting this. I have looked online for this tv special for a long time. I watched a movie on this case in the early 90s and always wanted to watch the TV special on the real couple Rip Pamela
This is the movie…. When No One Would Listen is a 1992 American made-for-television film, telling the story of housewife Jessica Cochran (Michele Lee), and the domestic violence she faces from her controlling, mentally unstable husband Gary Cochran (James Farentino)
This detective Stuart from The donut shop incident should have his badge removed he doesn't even have the decency to look at the camera because he knows he screwed up and didn't do his job😢😢😢 things for different back in those days I was in an abusive relationship for 4 years and it escalated to physical violence and I had him arrested but but it is also a mental abuse because abusers are so manipulative😢 I was lucky I got out after one major incident and I know I'm blessed because so many don't😢
Same here I’ve been single since 2017 he was unhinged and wasn’t going to change at all now he’s married I know his wife is going through it 😢she thought she won but in reality she lost
@moongoddess238 yes I've been single for quite a while and I'm a senior and I no longer have any interest in dating and I never really knew what a true narcissist was until I met him I'm glad you got out and have a blessed day from Toronto
I'm 5'5 and my ex was 6'3 and let me tell you, I stood up to him no matter how frightened I was at the time. He expected me to cowwar down but my mother taught me how to defend myself. I left him once I got home from our business trip, but I FEAR NO MAN. You treat me like sh$t on the bottom of your shoe you're gonna wear it.
Omg this whole story is Vulgar,The attitude of police and by people at large back then was revolting,making excuses for the perpetrator and blaming the victim this included the judge...There is Absolutely No Excuse Or Reason For Domestic Violence...It doesn't matter if the perpetrator is Male or Female
I cannot believe that cop stood there with a straight face and said that even after knowing the husband had murdered two other people, that he wasn't concerned about him hurting his wife and that she just didn't seem quite upset enough. Makes me wonder how he treats his own wife... I've watched plenty of DV stories and I have never wanted to throw my phone as many times as I did while watching this one. I'm 61 years old so I lived "back then" and this is exactly how it truly was. Absolutely unbelievable.
Restraining orders don't do jack, and we're more concerned with putting people in jail for thefts and minor drug offenses. It's our priorities that need to change.
I will say, I give major props 🫡 for this documentary and footage!! It’s amazing to see back in time and have all the interviews. Very well made. Absolutely heartbreaking to see as a survivor but important on so many levels so thank you to the crew and the channel for posting! I’ll definitely be searching for more here!
That police officer contradicted himself from one sentence to the next!!!! Outrageous! Stupid stupid man!!😡🤬how was he able to get a gun after the neighbor shooting? What is wrong with people??? This is appalling, sick and so sad!!💔
Pathetic man, cries and plays to victim for shooting his wife. But look at the mean look in his eye when he gets sentenced by the judge. He's a cold psychopath.
From the age of this documentary I can see this is a time when women were expected to stay & endure the suffering because if a man lost his temper she was to blame
Restraining orders are like holding a red flag to a raging bull.. they so rarely work against guys like him. You need to actually leave without telling them , take very little or nothing with you and go into hiding.
The other officer with the sunglasses seems more worried about how his hair looks then about poor Pamela and it seems like back in those days it was more on the man's side unless they actually saw him beating her thankfully when I went to the police they dealt with it right away partially because he had an extensive criminal record and I had marked bruising
Its too bad she felt she had to be intimate with the guy hiding her and the kids. The last thing she needed was to have to placate to another man for her own safety.
SO HEARTBREAKING, NOTHINGS CHANGED AND ITS SO SAD HER DAUGHTER PASSED SO YOUNG AND READING THE COMMENT HER BROTHER MADE ON HER FIND A GRAVE LINK, DV IS A BUTTERFLY EFFECT REST PEACEFULLY XX
This entire documentary is vulgar and disgusting. The “good ol boys” mentality is sickening. Smearing Pam’s name in court..despicable. I am a DV survivor and I can tell you this type of shit is still happening. Rest In Peace Pamela..you didn’t deserve this.
The cops and attorneys and judge all dropped the ball in protecting her ! But for that attorney to actually have the nerve to blame her for all this is a pos in my book! 😡 Prayers for her and her kids. 😢🙏
If you're living with someone with a temper who beats you; it's only a matter of time before the children experience that temper too. That's why I left my ex when our children were babies. I was not going to have them witness and definitely not experience violence in THEIR home. And THE question to ask is NOT "Do you love him?" But 'does he love you?'. That answer is clear. If your partner takes his temper out on you, controls you (in any way) and/or threatens you, he does NOT love you!!! That's not how love behaves; period!
I know what I’m about to say will be controversial, “men who are violent need help in processing their intense emotions”. But I do not condone their behaviour. And women need education and support in recognising red flags in men in the first place, easier said than done.
I don't knowing if controversial is the appropriate word... I get what you're saying; It's just several centuries amiss though. And even more so I believe it's with malicious intention done on purpose to keep the divisive & power dynamics arbitrary! The current societal construct Has Maladaptively Indoctrinated To be impressive So we are In a condition that blames victims Well showing leanings to offenders and we have to get out of that! It's the reason why all children are under attack, unsafe, unprotected, & exploitec! They've been invalidated, blamed, retraumatized, dehumanized, demoralized, disbelieved, & punished....BUT society is expected to have understanding and compassion for predatory sexual offenders! No! We don't! We have to come to a decisive line of ZERO TOLERANCE! One definitive act would be to exile offenders and never allow them to be a part of society again! Offending is a CHOICE! Hurting people don't hurt people! Disordered, Criminally minded, manipulative, exploitative, and abusive people hurt people! We had to cease EXCUSING & Tolerating wrongs! ✨🙏🏽✨
The thing is men and women for that matter that are violent, do not care for others. They are narcissistic. They have no empathy. All they care about is themselves. Those people do not seek any help. They do not think anything is wrong with them. They blame everybody else for their anger and violence, so there is no way to help them. In their minds, they need no help and it is the others that have to change. You could try to help them process or deal with their emotions 100 years, and they would still think they're right and it's not their fault.
“If you still love him, it’s worth fighting for.” Are you kidding me? These are the type of women who voted that THING back into office today. DISGUSTING! What happens next is on ALL OF YOU!
In her defence, that was the belief then. Just turned 40 and my father said always told me to never ignore an abusive man especially if it was physical. We now have enough experience of dv to not give such advice.
@@brendakabanda2181 no offense, but I’m getting real tired of the “back then” arguments. Either you have a soul or you don’t. It’s the same song when people try to coalign morals with a belief in a god (particularly THEIR god.) I grew up in this. I was touched. Animal cruelty. Extreme poverty. Domestic abuse. NO LOVE. And guess what? I don’t have a single relationship with a human being now. No family. No friends. Disabled army vet. I am 44 yrs old. But I rescue animals. I give them as much as I can give. Feed. Water. Every single day. Ain’t no more “back then” for me. And I’m not trying to offend your pov. I’m just saying, that excuses don’t cut it for me. Weakness is a state of mind. And as a woman who was a child who watched my mother not leave or protect because she didn’t want to be alone or have to provide?…. Well.. you ain’t worth the oxygen to even say your name outloud to me. These folks can keep their “back thens.” Im gonna show you a “RIGHT NOW.” And right now, back then can eat a dick.
This resignates with me but I don't know why my relationship with my husband was spared, but the last beating was the last. I was Tina Turner in the car fighting back and I told him the next time will be the last time if he ever hit me again , one of us if not both will die. I buried him 30 years later. Rest peacefully pam
The system worldwide is untrustworthy or lets say more often than not abusers are literally let out and will walk right back to the address. Ive been learning alot about reactiveness and responses like Smoothing over things with Smiles giggles and "sweeeping things under the carpet" Is a trauma response. She more thaan likely had a childhood of having to smooth thing over or keeping her own troubles or emotions to herself. Also learning about co dependency and learned helplessness. R.i.p Pamela
I would say men don’t know this side of women not leaving a marriage back then but I’m sure most of them do. Stories like this and what I used to hear from my grandmothers about their marriages infuriates me whenever men say women are quick to walk away from marriage now. Of course we are. Some men are just no good
I knew I probably shouldn’t even watch this, w the potential of it being triggering for me but here I am. I’ve fought those same battles many times (late 90’s w sons dad and 20’s w x hus) and believe me when I say, u lose faith in the system SO quickly when u jump EVERY hoop they tell u to, pay ALL the lawyer/court fees and still go unprotected!! A sheriff’s deputy flat out told me “it’s just a piece of paper” after I’d been ‘round and ‘round about it (with PLENTY of physical evidence/photos of injuries; hospital records; police reports) and that infuriated me!! I spun on him and got right up to him w all of my 5’ 100lb self and said “I KNOW THAT but when he slits my throat on the downtown square, at least u will know who did it!!” 😡🤬😡🤬😡 and their best advice for me after the many thousands of dollars, time in/out of court, doing EVERYTHING they told me while he did NOTHING they told him w ZERO consequences, that I should probably leave town and hide out somewhere either forever or several months. I am absolutely vehemently against DV on ANY part, man or woman and never stepped to him or even defended myself out of so much fear. Episodes that would make most nauseous to even hear about, but I can guarantee now, 20+ yrs out, it will NEVER happen to me again w/o consequences and defending myself. Ppl wonder why folks take matters into their own hands, this is why. Trust and believe also, it is NOT an easy thing to navigate while ur in it and going thru it. I swore I would never be in what I grew up w but ended up there anyway. It happens over time, usually. I’ll be damned now tho, I will never not fight for my life again, knowing I’m worth enough to do so and so is anyone else going thru this!! Man or woman. Keep fighting no matter what!! If anyone cared enough to read this novel, thank u!! If not, I get it. It tends to pour out at times LoL
That public defender is blaming her! She did everything right and a had a right to leave him. He is acting and lying and why not...it already worked once. What garbage!
These guys are just cowards and cunning, It is 2024 and still many policemen (males) do not have a an iota how to deal with domestic violence. This sad, tragic real story still remains the same for too many women as of today. People in Law Enforcement still have to take "classes" and "special training" regarding domestic violence when all they need is to have a little common sense, put themselves in the victim's shoes. Or at least think she can be your sister, daughter or someone dear to you. 😢💔RIP, dear Pam!
Why isn't anyone commenting on the fact that when her husband was originally charged for shooting the neighbor, she LIED on the stand! If she had been honest, he would have been in prison and she would still be alive. Sorry, but this is kinda karma to me, the guy he killed his poor family didn't get closure because of her lies.
IS this man still alive? Prison? Out in society? As we all know 40 years or even life does not mean they will stay in prison for the duration of the sentence. I hope the children had a lot of counseling and are in a safe and healthy environment
What a stupid prosecutor. Look she had every right to leave that 15 year violent relation. If Gunther treated her well, she would not have needed another man in her life. I hope he is locked up for life.
Good grief. This is people lacking respect for other humans, not being raised properly, being BORN sick... This is a mental health/nurture/nature issue. NOT patriarchy. Stop listening to feminist/extreme liberal ideals and look at ACTUAL issues. As a woman, I can absolutely say this.
I'm so sorry for this massive loss. I'm struck how too many are only wanting others happy, will give up their own good for others, martyrs. Sigh..............
Of COURSE He intended to kill her! He went out and purchased two guns, from two separate stores on two separate occasions! He certainly wasn't buying them to protect himself from her, It was clearly premeditated murder! I understand an attorney has a job to do but how they stand there with a straight face and say some of the things they do is beyond me.
I don't think it was the smartest decision going out with another man in public and kissing him while having her children with her knowing what her husband was capable of. She knew he was stalking her she knew he carried guns and she knew he would kill her. Either way she had every right to move on after everything he put her through i just don't think that was a wise move. She should have layed low until he moved on. Or she should have got out of that town & state
The best thing for a woman in this situation is to take the kids and leave to a different location, where he can't find you. NEVER go back to get clothes or other belongings! I remember hearing about a woman who had a baby, and left her estranged husband and moved to a different country. Several times she moved to a different continent/country. She was eventually arrested for kidnapping, but by that time, her daughter was grown. She was suspicious that her ex was abusing the baby - he wasn't even violent like this man was! You don't stick around in this situation - you have to leave and go far away, and possibly move frequently.
So infuriating that she died ,the poor kids have no choice but to live there and watch their mother getting beaten ,so very sad , and what is EVEN SADDER is ---it’s still going on today in the year 2024 ! Mothers getting murdered by the men who “LOVE “ them …
Rest in Peace Pamela. The system and prejudices against women past and future are a black mark on our legal system. Are we going to go back to stoning in the next four frightening years? Shame on that Colorado law enforcement and judicial system.
Men and women can both be victims of domestic violence. I agree it's not a little family problem. It's criminal to atttack anyone (unarmed I might add) with a gun no matter your feelings being hurt. It wasn't his feelings that caused Pamela's death. He's a coward and a bully. Sick man who only cares abuut himself and having control issues. He lost the grasp and he snapped. For hopefully the last time.
It’s Seattle I’ve warned them No one cares the advocates said to me Even after I was beaten with a crowbar they didn’t sentence him They only care about money
Oh the system totally let her down! How did they not? What a cop out. That police officer and district attorney. Whatever they did not even care about her did they. Thats how it came across. If they were being honest they'd probably say its her fault that he beat her hey. They should be ashamed of themselves
Do police officers need additional training to handle domestic violence situations? Do Police officers receive adequate training on how to de-escalate situations? Please leave you comment below. Thank You!
@@RealWomenRealStories yes I believe they do need additional training to handle DV! In many situations the abuser is very calm and a great liar, making his victim look like she’s the cause or like she’s making things up.
Restraining orders don't work.
They know they just don’t gone a 💩.. a piece of paper will never protect you and each time they break the order your at risk and need to report and document.. at the same time is ls fueling their anger with you and literally poking the coals on the already fuel filled fire.. way too many women have died like this after reaching out for help to family and law enforcement. They also let them out early or only hold them briefly without charge . You should ask the question of law enforcement after many decades of women that ask for help are they still dying, while the ex is never charged or sentence is reduced if any.. and another woman dies .. maybe ask them why don’t they change they way they treat these cases or why they release them way early and often don’t tell the victim they are being released so at least they can protect themselves/ move / hide ..
Yes they most definitely do need additional training for DV situations. No sometimes they make a DV situation worse
@@RealWomenRealStories
Police need to be vetted for their own beliefs. If it’s a “boys club” for the most part, and they defend each other by breaking the law themselves they should be held accountable. Who should be the judge and jury? The victim’s family and friends. Let’s start levelling the playing field. Why should the victims be sitting on the benches?
This is so frustrating! Shame on that detective that was like "she's sarcastic and lippy, you'd smack her around too". Shame on everyone tbh. They handled this situation so incredibly poorly. RIP Pam. She did everything right.
That's a detective, think about how they treat there wives if he v says that on camera about a stranger
Amen
@@ANNASTESIA-s4odetectives, cops, firefighters, military…. Narc infested professions
unfortunately she isn’t the only one the system has failed & continues to fail.
WORST ADVICE EVER FROM A BEST FRIEND -"STAY AND FIGHT FOR IT IF YOU LOVE HIM"...REALLY??? SMH
An extremely old-fashioned point of view, typical of those times, sadly.
I don't think at any time a best friend would advise her to stay with a wife beater unless she also was a battered wife.
Absolutely heartbreaking! 😥 And what kind of friend advises to stay in an abusive relationship? 🤬
Exactly my thought lol
Same shit I said
In the USA, three women are murdered every day by an intimate partner. Little has changed since this documentary aired. So tragic that women aren't safe even with Restraining Orders. Rest in peace Pam🌹
Yeah restraining orders mean nothing
@@SerenDipity64711
A restraining order is a piece of paper.
It can’t even protect you from the rain FFS.
This "I'm not taking sides" attitude was very popular with authority figures in the 80's. In middle school I was assaulted in a completely unprovoked attack. We were each grabbed by an ear and hauled out of a school assembly to the principal's office. Where we both received the exact same lecture and punishment. Together. I told the principal that I hadn't done anything and I think he believed me. But he said this is policy and seemed to think he had done a good job.
Watching that cop ignore his guilty conscience brought me right back to 1986. I think he could have been a good cop and no doubt was considered to be such at the time. As you might imagine, my peers and I hated cops. Mediocrity rules
the legal system is crap at protecting women. sort the guy out yourself. be ruthless.
Women have to be ruthless until she can be trusting and a bit vulnerable
It is interesting that the police downplay the criminality( threats of violence , violence, and myriad other offences) of the situation by calling it "a domestic dispute."So very, very tragic. The justice system failed her and her children.
So he kills his wife. Then he cries on the stand and says what a victim HE is. Asshole!!!
The abuser always claims to be the victim, which is a dead giveaway.
They were crocodile tears
The saddest and sickest thing is things haven’t changed since this (2024).
It cannot change if WOMEN continue to sleep with men but is uneducated about their biological NATURE and neurological wiring.
Women need to avoid bad boys and stop blaming the system for their bad choices.
If you don't leave the first time a man is violent l feel very little sympathy for you, especially when you allow your children to experience abuse
@@DonnellOkafor_hateslgbtq
Would you consider yourself better than a bad boy?
If yes,how?
Because last time I checked your biological NATURE and neurological wiring is animalistic.
How different are you?😏
@@DonnellOkafor_hateslgbtq Yes Very True.
Nope and things have actually been getting worse
Judge was full of sympathy foe Gunther and pointed out how horrible it must have been for him the past year. Not a word that his wife suffered 15 years of his disgusting violence.
Women have to protect themselves. Facts
Sounds like the neighbours should have, too. An innocent woman is no more and her husband wounded. He got away with it!
Abusers select empaths as partners on purpose. They know they won't stand up for themselves.
I get sick hearing those males talking about "her fault"!!! 🤬🤬🤬🤬 THERE IS NO VICTIMS'S FAULT IN ANY ABUSE!!!!! You do not abuse or kill people!!! You just DON'T!
Infuriating! RIP, Pam. Just infuriating.
You know what makes me sick that anybody would put their hands on anyone.! The title was exactly for my mother. Imagine being 12 years old and can't help her. My dad is still 6'3 growing up watching him be in the bodybuilder with a v-cut body shape built like a tank, throwing my mom around which is 5 foot 5 5 ft 6 on a good day. I'm glad you got me and my brother out of there when she did. What's even more sickening she had 5 sisters that never helped her because they were scared of my dad!! NO my motive is I see something I will say something. I am that Kodiak bear.
Thank you for sharing.
Same similar situation.
This is still very much reality😢
And it will continue because women doesn't know anything about MALE nature.
"If you have to fight off aggression where you live, that's not your home. That's just the house of your testimony. It's time to relocate." ~T.F. Hodge
The police almost caused my Moms death too. She had several restraining orders that he walked right through. He knew that the police were always going to just keep on releasing him or they would simply give up after trying to call him one or twice… she had at least a dozen broken noses that I remember, countless broken ribs, black eyes, bruised finger prints left where he choked her until she would pass out, etc. they just kept letting him go!! He even chased her across several states to find her, once he even broke into her sister’s home to find out our new address. She knew better than to try and fight him anytime he found her or she’d be murdered right in front of all of us kids. Finally he molested me just before I turned 12, and that was finally a big enough charge to get him sent to prison. But they never took into account all those times I called 911 as a little girl, the oldest of five kids, always left behind to watch my siblings as he chased and beat her. I was terrified he’d kill her before the police intervened. He was sentenced to 18 years in prison in 1993 and then was let out on good behavior only 4 years later. Thank God my Mom wasn’t his main focus any longer by that time. Prison scared him. He found a new victim though, they always do… please leave if you’re being abused. There’s no more horrifying sound or sight to a child than hearing their momma get beat up or seeing her be choked or beaten until she’s unconscious. I’ll never get those sounds or terrifying memories out of my head.
hope you find your peace✌️💜
@ thank you very much! ❤️💕❤️💕
@@gypsyqueen3806
I am so,so sorry darling. Maybe one day you will find some peace in your heart. Much love. X ♥️
Papers don’t save people.
@@davinastanton3865 thank you ❤️💕❤️💕❤️💕
It was HIS actions of BEATING her that made her leave him in the first place.....That doesn't give him the right to shoot her because she has a boyfriend...Get a DIVORCE!
The judge giving him sympathy at the end made me so frickin mad 😡
I experienced an "ex" that terrorized me, beat me, raped me. I received the same response from Police just like Pam. I Pray and Hope that these Domestic "situations" are handled better to Protect the ones Police are to Serve. I had to leave my situation in a hurry, I did not look back. To ALL those women out there dealing with someone like this...Take my advice, do whatever it takes and Save Yourself, Save Your Kids and Get Out.
The guy at the end saying that "anyone would be angry seeing her kissing someone else in front of their children" is just crazy... wtf. So he can beat her up, threaten to kill, and yet still have the right to get angry over her trying to get a new life? What is wrong with these so called "experts"?!?!?!
Thank you for posting this. I have looked online for this tv special for a long time. I watched a movie on this case in the early 90s and always wanted to watch the TV special on the real couple
Rip Pamela
This is the movie…. When No One Would Listen is a 1992 American made-for-television film, telling the story of housewife Jessica Cochran (Michele Lee), and the domestic violence she faces from her controlling, mentally unstable husband Gary Cochran (James Farentino)
This detective Stuart from The donut shop incident should have his badge removed he doesn't even have the decency to look at the camera because he knows he screwed up and didn't do his job😢😢😢 things for different back in those days I was in an abusive relationship for 4 years and it escalated to physical violence and I had him arrested but but it is also a mental abuse because abusers are so manipulative😢 I was lucky I got out after one major incident and I know I'm blessed because so many don't😢
Same here I’ve been single since 2017 he was unhinged and wasn’t going to change at all now he’s married I know his wife is going through it 😢she thought she won but in reality she lost
@moongoddess238 yes I've been single for quite a while and I'm a senior and I no longer have any interest in dating and I never really knew what a true narcissist was until I met him I'm glad you got out and have a blessed day from Toronto
I'm 5'5 and my ex was 6'3 and let me tell you, I stood up to him no matter how frightened I was at the time. He expected me to cowwar down but my mother taught me how to defend myself. I left him once I got home from our business trip, but I FEAR NO MAN. You treat me like sh$t on the bottom of your shoe you're gonna wear it.
Omg this whole story is Vulgar,The attitude of police and by people at large back then was revolting,making excuses for the perpetrator and blaming the victim this included the judge...There is Absolutely No Excuse Or Reason For Domestic Violence...It doesn't matter if the perpetrator is Male or Female
I cannot believe that cop stood there with a straight face and said that even after knowing the husband had murdered two other people, that he wasn't concerned about him hurting his wife and that she just didn't seem quite upset enough. Makes me wonder how he treats his own wife...
I've watched plenty of DV stories and I have never wanted to throw my phone as many times as I did while watching this one. I'm 61 years old so I lived "back then" and this is exactly how it truly was. Absolutely unbelievable.
That friend that told her to stay and work it out didn’t have her best interest in mind!
And has anything changed for women?? 👎 NO
Listening to him snivel on the stand made me sick. With how much he got away with im surprised they convicted him.
Her daughter Jennifer died at 19 years old in 1996.
How did Jennifer die? That’s so sad!!!
Heartbreaking 😢
Truly heartbreaking. 💔😥. X .
💔😢
Wow, so young 😢😢😢
Restraining orders don't do jack, and we're more concerned with putting people in jail for thefts and minor drug offenses. It's our priorities that need to change.
-16:49 All an ACT by this monster🗑& "Please leave please go please leave her alone" was HIM telling HIMSELF what he should've done!
Hopefully wouldn't have happened in 2024 because he unalived his neighbor.💔
I will say, I give major props 🫡 for this documentary and footage!! It’s amazing to see back in time and have all the interviews. Very well made. Absolutely heartbreaking to see as a survivor but important on so many levels so thank you to the crew and the channel for posting! I’ll definitely be searching for more here!
That police officer contradicted himself from one sentence to the next!!!! Outrageous! Stupid stupid man!!😡🤬how was he able to get a gun after the neighbor shooting? What is wrong with people??? This is appalling, sick and so sad!!💔
There is no way in hell I would have went back to that house!! I would have went far, far away where he could never find me!!!
Pathetic man, cries and plays to victim for shooting his wife. But look at the mean look in his eye when he gets sentenced by the judge. He's a cold psychopath.
This is our future, past, and present.
Yeah, sad but true.
Why?
From the age of this documentary I can see this is a time when women were expected to stay & endure the suffering because if a man lost his temper she was to blame
Restraining orders are like holding a red flag to a raging bull.. they so rarely work against guys like him. You need to actually leave without telling them , take very little or nothing with you and go into hiding.
While he gets to live his life fancy free... We get to hide for the rest of ours. It shouldn't be that way and it needs to change.
Omg the public defender , police and entire system are complete 🤡’s !!!
Public defender “for whatever reason she left ..” 🤦🏻♀️
Some men thinks it’s ok to just beat. Unfortunately even ones that protect.
The other officer with the sunglasses seems more worried about how his hair looks then about poor Pamela and it seems like back in those days it was more on the man's side unless they actually saw him beating her thankfully when I went to the police they dealt with it right away partially because he had an extensive criminal record and I had marked bruising
Its too bad she felt she had to be intimate with the guy hiding her and the kids. The last thing she needed was to have to placate to another man for her own safety.
Her kids break my heart. She was doing everything she could to get away and they had to lose their mom and watch it happen.
SO HEARTBREAKING, NOTHINGS CHANGED AND ITS SO SAD HER DAUGHTER PASSED SO YOUNG AND READING THE COMMENT HER BROTHER MADE ON HER FIND A GRAVE LINK, DV IS A BUTTERFLY EFFECT REST PEACEFULLY XX
This man, psychologist, has the best points!
Sadly domestic violence happens all over the world on all sector of society😢😢😢
This entire documentary is vulgar and disgusting. The “good ol boys” mentality is sickening. Smearing Pam’s name in court..despicable. I am a DV survivor and I can tell you this type of shit is still happening. Rest In Peace Pamela..you didn’t deserve this.
The cops and attorneys and judge all dropped the ball in protecting her ! But for that attorney to actually have the nerve to blame her for all this is a pos in my book! 😡 Prayers for her and her kids. 😢🙏
Nothing has changed.
I have been looking FOREVER for this! Thank you!
If you're living with someone with a temper who beats you; it's only a matter of time before the children experience that temper too. That's why I left my ex when our children were babies. I was not going to have them witness and definitely not experience violence in THEIR home. And THE question to ask is NOT "Do you love him?" But 'does he love you?'. That answer is clear. If your partner takes his temper out on you, controls you (in any way) and/or threatens you, he does NOT love you!!! That's not how love behaves; period!
I know what I’m about to say will be controversial, “men who are violent need help in processing their intense emotions”. But I do not condone their behaviour. And women need education and support in recognising red flags in men in the first place, easier said than done.
I don't knowing if controversial is the appropriate word...
I get what you're saying; It's just several centuries amiss though. And even more so I believe it's with malicious intention done on purpose to keep the divisive & power dynamics arbitrary!
The current societal construct Has Maladaptively Indoctrinated To be impressive So we are In a condition that blames victims Well showing leanings to offenders and we have to get out of that!
It's the reason why all children are under attack, unsafe, unprotected, & exploitec!
They've been invalidated, blamed, retraumatized, dehumanized, demoralized, disbelieved, & punished....BUT society is expected to have understanding and compassion for predatory sexual offenders!
No! We don't! We have to come to a decisive line of ZERO TOLERANCE! One definitive act would be to exile offenders and never allow them to be a part of society again!
Offending is a CHOICE! Hurting people don't hurt people! Disordered, Criminally minded, manipulative, exploitative, and abusive people hurt people! We had to cease EXCUSING & Tolerating wrongs!
✨🙏🏽✨
The thing is men and women for that matter that are violent, do not care for others. They are narcissistic. They have no empathy. All they care about is themselves. Those people do not seek any help. They do not think anything is wrong with them. They blame everybody else for their anger and violence, so there is no way to help them. In their minds, they need no help and it is the others that have to change. You could try to help them process or deal with their emotions 100 years, and they would still think they're right and it's not their fault.
Women will never be safe
“If you still love him, it’s worth fighting for.” Are you kidding me? These are the type of women who voted that THING back into office today. DISGUSTING! What happens next is on ALL OF YOU!
Sheer and utter madness...
@ I am disgusted beyond belief. And I am SICK of them!
In her defence, that was the belief then. Just turned 40 and my father said always told me to never ignore an abusive man especially if it was physical. We now have enough experience of dv to not give such advice.
@@brendakabanda2181 no offense, but I’m getting real tired of the “back then” arguments. Either you have a soul or you don’t. It’s the same song when people try to coalign morals with a belief in a god (particularly THEIR god.) I grew up in this. I was touched. Animal cruelty. Extreme poverty. Domestic abuse. NO LOVE. And guess what? I don’t have a single relationship with a human being now. No family. No friends. Disabled army vet. I am 44 yrs old. But I rescue animals. I give them as much as I can give. Feed. Water. Every single day. Ain’t no more “back then” for me. And I’m not trying to offend your pov. I’m just saying, that excuses don’t cut it for me. Weakness is a state of mind. And as a woman who was a child who watched my mother not leave or protect because she didn’t want to be alone or have to provide?…. Well.. you ain’t worth the oxygen to even say your name outloud to me. These folks can keep their “back thens.” Im gonna show you a “RIGHT NOW.” And right now, back then can eat a dick.
Could not agree more.
This resignates with me but I don't know why my relationship with my husband was spared, but the last beating was the last. I was Tina Turner in the car fighting back and I told him the next time will be the last time if he ever hit me again , one of us if not both will die. I buried him 30 years later. Rest peacefully pam
Most definitely 🍁✨️
too infuriating to watch this historical document. Many many problems
What?
@ hegemony, law relative to DV, law enforcement, prejudice, poor judgment, lack of knowledge & understanding, wdym ‘what’
Especially because 0 lessons have been learned and it’s now many decades later ..
This cop didn’t believe her CLEARLY because he said he believed HIM,! This cop is literally responsible for her death IMO
The perpetrator makes all kinds of excuses for himself. What a POS.!
I hope the cops still have nightmares about this how dare they let that man out
One day in jail??? Then an outpatient program? I doubt that solves anything.
The system worldwide is untrustworthy or lets say more often than not abusers are literally let out and will walk right back to the address.
Ive been learning alot about reactiveness and responses like
Smoothing over things with
Smiles giggles and "sweeeping things under the carpet" Is a trauma response. She more thaan likely had a childhood of having to smooth thing over or keeping her own troubles or emotions to herself.
Also learning about co dependency and learned helplessness.
R.i.p Pamela
Society still is not protecting women in abusive relationships unfortunately ❤😢
Because a lot of victims even in bullying , when reporting , it's difficult to get a good result without getting the sack . Just the system .
The DA was culpable and should have been FIRED!!!
I would say men don’t know this side of women not leaving a marriage back then but I’m sure most of them do. Stories like this and what I used to hear from my grandmothers about their marriages infuriates me whenever men say women are quick to walk away from marriage now. Of course we are. Some men are just no good
This system is screwed up.when the judge said poor husband lived n hell the last year..really.this isn't love in ANY kind of form
He aggravated the neighbours to isolate his wife, so they wouldnt notice the abuse and help her
I knew I probably shouldn’t even watch this, w the potential of it being triggering for me but here I am. I’ve fought those same battles many times (late 90’s w sons dad and 20’s w x hus) and believe me when I say, u lose faith in the system SO quickly when u jump EVERY hoop they tell u to, pay ALL the lawyer/court fees and still go unprotected!! A sheriff’s deputy flat out told me “it’s just a piece of paper” after I’d been ‘round and ‘round about it (with PLENTY of physical evidence/photos of injuries; hospital records; police reports) and that infuriated me!! I spun on him and got right up to him w all of my 5’ 100lb self and said “I KNOW THAT but when he slits my throat on the downtown square, at least u will know who did it!!” 😡🤬😡🤬😡 and their best advice for me after the many thousands of dollars, time in/out of court, doing EVERYTHING they told me while he did NOTHING they told him w ZERO consequences, that I should probably leave town and hide out somewhere either forever or several months. I am absolutely vehemently against DV on ANY part, man or woman and never stepped to him or even defended myself out of so much fear. Episodes that would make most nauseous to even hear about, but I can guarantee now, 20+ yrs out, it will NEVER happen to me again w/o consequences and defending myself. Ppl wonder why folks take matters into their own hands, this is why. Trust and believe also, it is NOT an easy thing to navigate while ur in it and going thru it. I swore I would never be in what I grew up w but ended up there anyway. It happens over time, usually. I’ll be damned now tho, I will never not fight for my life again, knowing I’m worth enough to do so and so is anyone else going thru this!! Man or woman. Keep fighting no matter what!! If anyone cared enough to read this novel, thank u!! If not, I get it. It tends to pour out at times LoL
That public defender is blaming her! She did everything right and a had a right to leave him. He is acting and lying and why not...it already worked once. What garbage!
Bull crap he lost his. Meal ticket and punching bag why did he use her credit card to buy another gun
The judge was talking about what this guy had gone through what about the 15 yrs he battered his wife ?
“If you love him - it’s worth fighting for” -- my god……
Yes perhaps it should be if you love yourself your worth fighting for
These guys are just cowards and cunning, It is 2024 and still many policemen (males) do not have a an iota how to deal with domestic violence. This sad, tragic real story still remains the same for too many women as of today. People in Law Enforcement still have to take "classes" and "special training" regarding domestic violence when all they need is to have a little common sense, put themselves in the victim's shoes. Or at least think she can be your sister, daughter or someone dear to you. 😢💔RIP, dear Pam!
"I had no reason not to believe him"....even though there was a restraint order in place and proof of abuse, those officers were impotent.
Horrid!! Please make a change! How could the judge say the system didn’t let her down. That man should have been in jail on MANY CHARGES!
Why isn't anyone commenting on the fact that when her husband was originally charged for shooting the neighbor, she LIED on the stand! If she had been honest, he would have been in prison and she would still be alive. Sorry, but this is kinda karma to me, the guy he killed his poor family didn't get closure because of her lies.
IS this man still alive? Prison? Out in society? As we all know 40 years or even life does not mean they will stay in prison for the duration of the sentence. I hope the children had a lot of counseling and are in a safe and healthy environment
Yes I looked him up in CO prison search a few mos ago
They say the daughter died young too
What a stupid prosecutor. Look she had every right to leave that 15 year violent relation. If Gunther treated her well, she would not have needed another man in her life. I hope he is locked up for life.
This is the patriarchy.
Will we have more hatred and violence toward women under Trump in 2025-2028?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Good grief. This is people lacking respect for other humans, not being raised properly, being BORN sick... This is a mental health/nurture/nature issue. NOT patriarchy. Stop listening to feminist/extreme liberal ideals and look at ACTUAL issues. As a woman, I can absolutely say this.
Sickest thing about all this was how calm, cool and collected he was
I'm so sorry for this massive loss. I'm struck how too many are only wanting others happy, will give up their own good for others, martyrs. Sigh..............
OMG!Lets blame the victim,and what a pathetic performance from the ex husband!That poor woman!RIP
50:04 “it was her action yes indeed, of leaving that helped set the stage of what happened” 🤯🤬🤯🤬🤯
I stay out of romantic relationships. Because I know I can go from peaceful to prison in minutes flat. Because All men sleep sometimes.
And women own cast iron pans 😅
Of COURSE He intended to kill her! He went out and purchased two guns, from two separate stores on two separate occasions! He certainly wasn't buying them to protect himself from her, It was clearly premeditated murder!
I understand an attorney has a job to do but how they stand there with a straight face and say some of the things they do is beyond me.
What year was this?
Where did this happen?
1987
I don't think it was the smartest decision going out with another man in public and kissing him while having her children with her knowing what her husband was capable of. She knew he was stalking her she knew he carried guns and she knew he would kill her. Either way she had every right to move on after everything he put her through i just don't think that was a wise move. She should have layed low until he moved on. Or she should have got out of that town & state
Stupid ex bridesmaids advise.
The best thing for a woman in this situation is to take the kids and leave to a different location, where he can't find you. NEVER go back to get clothes or other belongings! I remember hearing about a woman who had a baby, and left her estranged husband and moved to a different country. Several times she moved to a different continent/country. She was eventually arrested for kidnapping, but by that time, her daughter was grown. She was suspicious that her ex was abusing the baby - he wasn't even violent like this man was! You don't stick around in this situation - you have to leave and go far away, and possibly move frequently.
Bigotry of every single man involved. She never stood a chance. And these men never even lost a nights sleep or a dollar of pay
So infuriating that she died ,the poor kids have no choice but to live there and watch their mother getting beaten ,so very sad , and what is EVEN SADDER is ---it’s still going on today in the year 2024 ! Mothers getting murdered by the men who “LOVE “ them …
Rest in Peace Pamela. The system and prejudices against women past and future are a black mark on our legal system. Are we going to go back to stoning in the next four frightening years? Shame on that Colorado law enforcement and judicial system.
Men and women can both be victims of domestic violence. I agree it's not a little family problem. It's criminal to atttack anyone (unarmed I might add) with a gun no matter your feelings being hurt. It wasn't his feelings that caused Pamela's death. He's a coward and a bully. Sick man who only cares abuut himself and having control issues. He lost the grasp and he snapped. For hopefully the last time.
It’s Seattle I’ve warned them
No one cares the advocates said to me
Even after I was beaten with a crowbar they didn’t sentence him
They only care about money
The fact the police said they got into a fight when he was kidnapping her
Oh the system totally let her down! How did they not? What a cop out. That police officer and district attorney. Whatever they did not even care about her did they. Thats how it came across. If they were being honest they'd probably say its her fault that he beat her hey. They should be ashamed of themselves