I wouldn't judge E9X M3 ownership too harshly yet. This car is a real tough example; reposessed, neglected, unknown history, and was making strange noises when purchased. I had one that was only "averagely" maintained before I bought it, had the bearings done by a professional BMW shop, and it gave me years of trouble-free miles. Sold it with 130,000 miles and many track days on the clock and still regret selling it. Outside of the bearings I never had any check engine lights, left stranded, etc. Drove it year-round in winters and snow too.
Agreed, I know many many people with tons of miles on the S65. Mine personally has been fantastic. If anyones thinking of getting one... just don't buy the cheapest example LOL and always do your maintenance
Was gonna say the same. See them put numberous laps on the nurburgring without any problems. Maintenance is key with these and the bearings should be done as a preventive measure. This one was probably to far gone.
1. Prior rod bearing service overtightened and broken rod bolt. 2. Piston cracked and rod damage followed as a result. Use a torque wrench to see if other rod caps are too tight or got the low torque but not the angle. I think the rod bolts would be 65-80 ft-lb to break free. I didn't see if rod bolt threads remained in rod or were gone
Agreed. I believe improper torque on the rod bolt caused the failure. Could have been a bad rod bolt, but considering these were ARP bolts highly unlikely.
Dude support the car from the back if you re taking the engine out or put the quickjacks perpendicular to the car and far to the back, that was very dangerous, i ve seen a quickjack slide sideways and it will wreck havoc or might even kill you
I worked on a kia that had similar incidents. Oil just replaced but blew a piston, destroy the blcok too... After deep investigation,i found out the wrist pin holding the piston and connecting rod slipped out because the locking clip feel loose and out, the wrist pin then seized at one end if the piston, stopping the smooth sliding of the piston up and down its bore, then basically grenaded itself and ruined the engine... I think something similar happened ti you, it had that same noise that wouldn't go away even after working on the engine.
I kind of wonder if the previous owner had a slight water ingestion. The knock was there before and maybe he slightly bent the rod. Might have been slight enough that you wouldn’t notice during the rod bolt job, but enough to weaken the rod. Then KABOOM.
The fuel sock deteriorates on these and can lead to debris in the injector. The debris gets the injector stuck open and can lead to cylinder wash or hydrolock. Hydrolock of some sort definitely explains the knock.
@@racing0wl the M156 in the w204 C63 AMG has issues with injectors stuck open and hydrolocks as well (also hydrolocks from broken headbolts 😬). Hadn’t even thought of hydrolocks from fuel but that makes perfect sense
Yeah a hydrolocking event with tweaking of the rod weakening it and causing the knocking sound regardless of bearing status was at the top of my list, too.
I thought about water, too. The mention of the smell of the ocean when removing the motor and the water in the transmission seemed suspicious, although I don't know how long water could hang around in there?
As someone who has done 50+ rod bearing jobs on S65s, that looks like install error. My guess is one of the rod bolts on that cyl was missed and wasn't torqued properly. But it could also be the rod end was installed backwards. If you gather all the pieces of the rod and show high quality images of all the mating surfaces of the top and bottom of the rod ends, and the bolts, there might be some evidence of what happened there. But the crank journal being clean means it's not a bearing or oiling failure.
If the piston had hydro-locked, the rod would have been bent or destroyed but the bottom end of the rod would still be spinning on the crank. As clean as the crank journal looks with no discoloration, spun or severely damaged bearings, my guess is the bottom end came apart, possibly one of the cap bolts came loose or broke.
@@crispcarguru303 you can continue to push past the point where a torque wrench informs you that the set torque is reached.. in my much younger years I did this a lot because I wasn't confident that the manufacturers suggested torque spec seemed tight enough.. it does happen. And in the case of rod caps, it can easily be detrimental. An 1/8 of a turn past torque could easily have done this
@@crispcarguru303 I could give five different mechanics a torque wrench and the same bolt. I would check all five bolts and I promise you all five bolts will be torqued to 5 different specs.
Could have been an injector failure. If it was stuck open or stuck closed, it could have flooded the cylinder and hydro locked it.. its fairly common and sometimes overlooked
I initially thought a spun bearing, but that wouldn't change the angle of the Con Rod to be destroyed like that. I'm going with the others that the gudgeon pin (wrist pin) failed. This would allow the Con rod to flail around inside the chamber like a dropped high pressure fire hose. After the compression stroke, the only place for the rod to go is through the block.
My head kinda goes to a bent rod finally giving up. The S65 injectors do have a rare issue of sticking open and essentially hydrolocking cylinders up and bending rods in the process.
I'm afraid it looks to me like a rod bolt dropped out (or much less likely, one broke), like you say, the crank looks clean where the rod is missing, so it can't be a bearing failure. If a main bearing had failed, again the (adjacent) rod bearings would be damaged too. If that cylinder had hydro-locked from say an injector stuck open, then yes the rod would've broken, but it would have broken in the beam section and the big end would still be attached to the crank. To stand a good chance of answering the above, you'd need to find the rest of the rod, and the other rod bolt (& preferably the other 1/2 of the one you have a bit of). If you put the pieces of the rod and bolts together like a jigsaw, you might be able to see the point of failure.
Don’t think it was oil starvation or overheating of internal components. Would like to see the rest of that piston/rod. I think the rod failed/came apart.
Happened to me: stuck open injector, hydrolock, then fatigued conrod. Didn't blow up immediately. Two years after, conrod split up in three pieces, out of nowhere, and there was a mark of fatigue in one of the pieces. Maybe that engine of yours suffered of a stuck injector and fuel hydrolock too, or as mentioned in other comments, water hydrolock, that could cause conrod fatigue the same way. ps.: my rod bearings were all fine as well as main bearings. No overheating marks. But there was a difference: mine didn't break the conrod & cap junction. It stayed connected, with bolts firmly on and intact.
I once had a wrist pin break after a rebuild, rod was destroyed, piston too, but the crank end stayed intact. This was a racecar so shut down quick. This was a 2.0 four, so much less rotatating mass. Anyway, I am in wrist pin camp, with a plugged oil feed. We watched you do all the bearings so I really don’t think one of the bolts backed out.
Almost looks like a connecting rod or wrist pin failure. Maybe look at the external oil squirter? Maybe the one for that cylinder got clogged with something
Bro you don't have to pump up the cherry picker all the way from the bottom you can loosen the release valve for the hydraulic cylinder lift the arm up all the way and while you have it up tighten the release valve and the arm will be in the upright position
As one of my dream cars I’d argue that it “can” be reliable but they have quirks. With this one I’d argue probably oil starvation around the bearings. The main design flaw for the bearings was insanely tight clearances so even when new ones are installed there are steps to be followed: on startup, let the oil circulate for a couple min before driving, always keep the revs down below 3k ish until the oil is up to temp (my previous bimmers said around 160), and use the highest quality oil you can get. For most cars it doesn’t matter but for motors like this it makes a difference. Also at some point the throttle actuators are going to let go as well. This is a great series though. We have the same taste in cars and trucks (not truck wheels lol).
@TheRealDr.Mabuse if you have good oil the oil should still be sat in the bearings, the m3 is a very daily-able car, I'd expect that from a pagani, but when they were making that car they definitely had to take into consideration super cold starts and people not waiting for two minutes. Hell I wouldn't if I'm honest
@@dietznutz1 I’m sure they considered it and on paper that’s probably correct. They also changed the bearing material as well, which was a factor and the reason why the m5/6 v10’s had the same issue. But, lol, from real world driving conditions and experience, as well as feedback from hundreds of owners on the forums and first hand advice from the guys at Turner Motorsport, the m3/5/6 from this generation has to be treated carefully to be reliable. Once warmed up and even if you just let it idle on start until the revs go down (30 seconds to a min?) they should be good. Top tier synthetic oil every 5k max as well. Anything less and they like to leave the chat for no reason lol.
I love my 110K e93. Paid 1/2 of book for it with a repaired rear quarter salvage title at 88K. I replaced the motor mounts and regular oil changes are all I've done. If it blows up tomorrow I've gotten my moneys worth. They aren't quick by today's standard but that engine sounds amazing. Gas milage is annoying! Second channel I've seen where they crapped out after the bearing change. Speed Academy's 100k e90 shelled about 3k after the bearing change at a track day.
IMHO it has to be improper torque on a rod bolt or broken/defective rod bolt. I know I said before you played fast and loose on clearance checks (at least on video) but it doesn't look like a clearance issue. I think if the rod itself had an issue there is a reasonable chance the bottom half would still be on the crank. When i did rod bearings on mine I second guessed myself for months wondering if I am 100% sure I tightened all the bolts. As others said, check the tightness of the other bolts.
Love your vids man! One little tip, anytime when taking out the engine in a car, ALWAYS support it from the back, or front in a rear engined car. The weight difference in that little time will as you know, cause it to tip over, good luck with this car! I promise not all m3's are like this. I would also recommend not rebuilding the engine outside (which you can't anyway) but also when this car is outside, cap or block any outlets in the car, don't want anything getting in there! Much love man
Matt, 10w60 is way too thick for S65 S85 at a cold start. I use 5w50, thiner at cold start, 5w50 flows quick in oil galleys and tight rod bearings clearance much better than 10w60. I use in my e92 m3 without any issues. New England weather.
Too much of a Coincidence that rod failed just a few miles after bearings changed. If it was tighter tolerances created friction then you’d expect heat friction marks so full circle maybe it was coincidence old engine rod just gave up.
aparently injectors sometimes fail on these and stay open, washing out the oil film/ flooding the chamber until the connecting rod goes weak at the knees...
Maybe on install you left that cylinder’s rod loose? Since everything around is so perfect and this failure was not at high rev, it could have been that.
Sucks. I feel your pain here. I love my m3’s. Part of the game I say when you drive them aggressively. I’ve had one lock up and the another similar to yours here but it put a hole in the block. I like you here am unsure what exactly caused the failure, rod bearings were done about 20k miles ago. Main bearing failure I’m thinking but 🤷🏻♂️. It definitely wasn’t a stuck fuel injector for me. As a couple have said already m359 restorations for me was a gem. When I started putting the new engine together I used his vlogs. Speaking of which I need to send him some monies for a beer on me.
Thank you Gentlemen. I WAS considering one of these, but your video made me change my opinion. I would have chosen a problem child (its what I do), but now see the juice is NOT worth MY squeeze. Best of luck guys. Plus, your work space adds another 50% difficulty to this task. Even without that, I’m STILL not in the market for one. Check Speed Academy- Petes M3 crapped the bed also, and he went through a bunch (of time and $) to bring it back online.
It's unfortunate, but really the only manageable BMW engines to maintain and work on are the inline ones. Bought a 2011 535i (N55 inline 6) and the previous owner was a shadetree mechanic but apparently there was too much shade cause he couldn't see anything, cross threaded half the bolts in the engine bay. Had to take out the engine to fix all the bolts, did oil pan and rod bearings while I had it out. The issue with these cars is their owners. I have fixed every single problem I have come across, but what bothers me is that I'll never really trust the car because I know there are so many components that if I wanted to check everything over like an aircraft inspection, it would take MONTHS. I would guess that an S65 would take twice as long to overhaul as I did with my N55 (which was actually running. Rough, no noises, was just bad HPFP and clogged injectors). But with any used BMW I literally would not run it for more than 30s before rolling it into my garage and pulling the engine out for bearings. This is a neon example of bad ownership, but believe me, the majority are like this. Most people who work on these cars really have no business doing so.
This is very similiar to the s85 they both are super high performance egines that are built for track and racing they take intense maintenance that the previous owner never did. the s85 particularly is a f1 engine which is torn down and rebuilt after every race.
Matt, sorry to see some of the criticism that was thrown your way. After watching Sreten’s build, I give you a lot of credit for working with what you have. As far as the failure mode, while there is some great feedback here, the only way to find out what went wrong, is to tear the engine down. One thing that I find interesting is that for such a neglected car, I would think that the crank case would have been more heavily varnished. Lastly, while I have never had any variation of a 911, I do appreciate them and watching you work on them has been informative. What I do have is a G80 and an E90. There are times that I really appreciate the high strung nature of the S65, and there are times when I love the low end torque of the S58. Both are great cars. Yes, some of the content out there on the S65 makes me nervous. On the other hand, the E90, in my opinion, is a great chassis. I say that you should tear down the blown engine to try and find the root cause. In parallel to that, I hope that you find a new engine that you either rebuild, or are fortunate to find one that is ready to go. Best of luck to you. BTW, take it from someone who knows; protect your hands!😊
Im from France i have 2010 M3 im beating the hell out of it in Nurburgring every year and nothing happen only normal service. I wonder why always US BMWs has problems and breaks down ?
try to enjoy the process and look at the bright side. You will learn a ton about the car, about working on cars in general, pick up some new skills, and eventually once its all back together again, will have an excellent m3 with hopefully many miles of carefree driving ahead!
Looks like you broke a rod bolt while driving it. Did you replace the old rod bolts with new ones when you changed out the bearings? They are single time use as they stretch when you torque them.
Either you forgot to torque the rod bolt or... there was just something damaged for before which just was not the bearing issue. Maybe something did go or had already gone to piston or that oil channel was partially glocked 🤔
Matt, I would be checking that those bolts are actually ARP. It is possible that a Brocken bolt caused this. On the other hand the rod itself could have had a discrepancy wasn’t easily picked up when the bearings were replaced. Looking forward to seeing more on this. Enjoy your videos man! Thankyou.
Probably abused for its whole life. I have an E90 M3, my friend owned it before me and never drove it hard until the oil was warm and serviced it regularly. I'm now at 130,000 miles and it hasn't missed a beat.
Failed rod bearing bolt? Is your torque wrench accurate? Check condition of vanos covers and that they are still in place - they can break and block the oil flow… Injector issue causing hydrolock of affected cylinder? Did the oil smell like fuel? Timing failure/vanos? Can’t wait to find out!
The rod bolt looks like it's broke either that or a hydro lock situation but it doesn't look like there was any water in it so I'm going to go with the bolt broke for the rod cap
I was the owner of m3e92 for 6 years. Bought the car from the first owner at 60k km. I was changing oil every year more less 8k km (was using car in summer months) ive always let the oil get hot before i play hard with my M. did rod bearings and throttle actuators at 100k. I never had any problem with the car. I guess how your treat it its what you get.
@@matt13ross yeah i know i just wanted to say that this is an amazing car but it needs some attention ;) im looking forward for your journey with yours!
I’m thinking a failure in the top end (such as a dropped valve) caused the piston to shatter and resulted in what you have here. I’ve seen it on a ford 5.4 3v where the valve stuck in the guide and caused similar results.
Great job as always. Too bad people have bought these M3s that should never have had them, like this one, long before you ever touched it. But remember, stay positive and keep going forward. Do not let naysayers get you down. And your video skills are getting to be very good. We always enjoy your content.
I've mentioned it before...I've seen them fail without warning. Treat it like a floor jack and don't trust it by itself, use stands at all times along with it to be safe
@@TheRealEarlLeeRiser - I think you're making things up or a confused with a different product. These have a backup brace bar on each side in the event the hydraulic lines or pump fails. Also if the car was on a 2 post lift and the engine &trans removed it would tilt back too. it's physics and nothing to do with the quick jacks!
@@hometheatre9978 why would I make things up? Unless there’s another product that looks like this and also called quick jacks then no I’m not confused. Has nothing to do with what happened in this video, I’m not stupid and I understand how balance and gravity work. I’ve seen what I’ve seen…you’re welcome to research it yourself. Won’t say another word though lol…y’all have fun taking chances, but if it was me I’d use common sense and not trust a tiny bar that can jump out of place unexpectedly.
@@TheRealEarlLeeRiserthey do have a locking bar in case of hydraulic failure that floor jacks don’t have, same as how a 2 post lift has locks that click as it’s raised so it won’t fall. I’m not anti extra safety or anything but they won’t collapse unless they were not locked properly.
ARP rod bolts cannot be reused. They will break if stretched too long. Is that what happened considering people replace the rod bearings often on this engine? You have to always use new rod bolts when replacing the bearings.
@@matt13ross I'm confused. You only drove it 5 miles. Did you do rod bearings before ever driving it? What I'm saying is, maybe the previous owner had the bearings serviced and that shop reused the bolts.
I got anxiety watching this. Thanks for sharing all E9X owners appreciate it. I think the only way to know what happened is to inspect the top of the block looking at the main crank. Bet the noise came from up there.
Cheers from Portugal! Was this engine rebuilt? I don't know much about the S65 but, if it was rebuilt, maybe you used new original rod bearings. - If you don't have bore scoring, you can rebuild the engine. Use a set of MAHLE Motorsport high compression pistons and I would highly suggest you use rod bearings from BE Bearings which offer more clearance than the original ones (search for the reference SP1527F-STD-S65). - This is one of the reasons that these engines suffer premature failures.
We almost bought one of these back in 2018 (alpine white with fox red interior, great spec). But after the test drive I went with my gut and passed since I knew of the known issues these could present. lol. I will say though these are great cars once you can get past the faults. Great content as always!
Wonder if the other bolt backed out or let go, since there seems like no other real damage. The prior noise isn't a good indicator though, aince it blew so quick
The fuel sock deteriorates on these and can lead to debris in the injector. The debris gets the injector stuck open and can lead to cylinder wash or hydrolock.
I think you would have a great benefit for cost, if you bought an engine stand. Because, you will need to disassemble the entire engine now to go further on investigation, and it's pretty simple to do you have the stand.
I had an m3 back in the 00's when they switched to the faster desgin iteration cycle. It spent 4 months in the dealership in the first year with the most basic crap breaking constantly, thermostats, windshield cracking (not a stone chip), brake disks warping, ECU, demist, the list was endless. I ended up giving it back bought a Range Rover (which was perfect from day one) and then a 911 and had it for 17 years. I would never buy BMW even if they paid me, too much technology and not enough engineering.
No matter how unrealible the m cars are, someone will always blame neglect. My neighbors well maintained m5 is on second motor due to rod bearings failure.
It reminds me of my car, it passed into the wrong hands and now it's being completely rebuilt again, the money I already spent I almost bought another one but you already know what it's like for those who like to spend and take care of it, those who are strong-armed are only good at destroying 😅
Could’ve been main bearing failure. I don’t exactly know why or how it can fail but it seems like it’s getting reported more as a failure point on s65s, it seems to be more of a issue on the later models since they changed the main bearing material to tin and it seems weaker. The earlier models have copper bearings and less reports of failure but it still happens. Could’ve just been abused and that possibility could’ve caused main bearing failure. Either way still a amazing car and as much as a engine failure sucks, I think it’s worth it to rebuild a s65 with all upgraded bearings and drop it in.
Really? ..... it blew up?😅 ..... just sharing here - having located in South East Asia the stock e92 M3 never got any major issues meaning no one need to swap in another engine .... for a tuned e92 M3, they tune it to 97 or 100 octane gas. ... keep in my the owners take on track days yada, yada, yada ... its back of their head oil starvation will be an issue but it will show up 3 - 4 days later while driving normally on the road.
The crankshaft main bearings on the S65 need to be changed every 50000km. Its the biggest flaw of the S65. I got this information from my dad whom is a mechanic ( not to say that he knows everything but advice from old mechanics should never be disregardet)
Finding out German is junk after a while. But they sure are fun cars to drive while they're good. Makes for great content.Time to part out the BMW v8 and go for an LS in the bay. Keep after it!!
Good luck man! I had the exact same failure happen in my s85 from my e60 m5. I ended up rebuilding the engine, but im glad youre planning to swap the s65 for another one (probably a lot quicker and cheaper than a full engine rebuild!)
I think the StanceWorks channel nailed it last year in their video about BMW and its motorsport division. It was a fascinating and brutal takedown, and it's all I can think about while watching you take this thing apart. It was entitled "A disgrace to the letter M". And he's a huge BMW fan and builder. The Porsche content here is amazing btw.
The biggest issue with the S65 is that of the contemporary N54, which is much more economical, powerful and torquey. Even an FBO and a remap will take it north of S65 power and the N54 actually sounds sweet with just a half decent exhaust system.
Has to either be main bearings or rod bolts snapped, could be anything. I would start at main bearings though, common issue on M3s especially neglected or not driven ones
Hard not to believe it has something to do with the rod bearing repair. Not to question your work. Would a failed rod bearing cause the piston to grenade?
You replaced the rod bearings right? What do you think failed in the end? I hope it wasn’t the new ones you put on or how you did it idk. Either way it makes for me videos :)
I wouldn't judge E9X M3 ownership too harshly yet. This car is a real tough example; reposessed, neglected, unknown history, and was making strange noises when purchased. I had one that was only "averagely" maintained before I bought it, had the bearings done by a professional BMW shop, and it gave me years of trouble-free miles. Sold it with 130,000 miles and many track days on the clock and still regret selling it. Outside of the bearings I never had any check engine lights, left stranded, etc. Drove it year-round in winters and snow too.
Good points!
Agreed, I know many many people with tons of miles on the S65. Mine personally has been fantastic. If anyones thinking of getting one... just don't buy the cheapest example LOL and always do your maintenance
Agreed! I just clocked in about 265,xxx miles on my original motor E92 M3 :)
That's wild!
Was gonna say the same. See them put numberous laps on the nurburgring without any problems. Maintenance is key with these and the bearings should be done as a preventive measure. This one was probably to far gone.
1. Prior rod bearing service overtightened and broken rod bolt. 2. Piston cracked and rod damage followed as a result. Use a torque wrench to see if other rod caps are too tight or got the low torque but not the angle. I think the rod bolts would be 65-80 ft-lb to break free.
I didn't see if rod bolt threads remained in rod or were gone
Agreed. I believe improper torque on the rod bolt caused the failure. Could have been a bad rod bolt, but considering these were ARP bolts highly unlikely.
@@cbrrider98 nah I've seen arp bolts snap before on initial torque. No parts producer is perfect.
Bolt stretch gauge. Torque ain’t everything
First mistake working on bmw: thinking torque specs with measurement units from the dark ages.
Dude support the car from the back if you re taking the engine out or put the quickjacks perpendicular to the car and far to the back, that was very dangerous, i ve seen a quickjack slide sideways and it will wreck havoc or might even kill you
Looking back yes but first time doing this particular job 😊
I worked on a kia that had similar incidents. Oil just replaced but blew a piston, destroy the blcok too... After deep investigation,i found out the wrist pin holding the piston and connecting rod slipped out because the locking clip feel loose and out, the wrist pin then seized at one end if the piston, stopping the smooth sliding of the piston up and down its bore, then basically grenaded itself and ruined the engine... I think something similar happened ti you, it had that same noise that wouldn't go away even after working on the engine.
I kind of wonder if the previous owner had a slight water ingestion. The knock was there before and maybe he slightly bent the rod. Might have been slight enough that you wouldn’t notice during the rod bolt job, but enough to weaken the rod. Then KABOOM.
The fuel sock deteriorates on these and can lead to debris in the injector. The debris gets the injector stuck open and can lead to cylinder wash or hydrolock.
Hydrolock of some sort definitely explains the knock.
@@racing0wl the M156 in the w204 C63 AMG has issues with injectors stuck open and hydrolocks as well (also hydrolocks from broken headbolts 😬). Hadn’t even thought of hydrolocks from fuel but that makes perfect sense
Yeah a hydrolocking event with tweaking of the rod weakening it and causing the knocking sound regardless of bearing status was at the top of my list, too.
I thought about water, too. The mention of the smell of the ocean when removing the motor and the water in the transmission seemed suspicious, although I don't know how long water could hang around in there?
3:11 it's from all the Sea foam that was dropped in it to clean the engine.
17:59 Helloooo ECS
Seam foam? Lol
@@matt13ross ha, yeah Sea Foam. The motor cleaner injector. It's just a corny joke.
Oh haha
As someone who has done 50+ rod bearing jobs on S65s, that looks like install error. My guess is one of the rod bolts on that cyl was missed and wasn't torqued properly. But it could also be the rod end was installed backwards.
If you gather all the pieces of the rod and show high quality images of all the mating surfaces of the top and bottom of the rod ends, and the bolts, there might be some evidence of what happened there. But the crank journal being clean means it's not a bearing or oiling failure.
If the piston had hydro-locked, the rod would have been bent or destroyed but the bottom end of the rod would still be spinning on the crank. As clean as the crank journal looks with no discoloration, spun or severely damaged bearings, my guess is the bottom end came apart, possibly one of the cap bolts came loose or broke.
You over torqued one or both of the rod bolts on that rod. I've done it. I have lived this pain. My rod bearing looked just like that on teardown.
how do you over torque with torque wrench?
@@crispcarguru303 you can continue to push past the point where a torque wrench informs you that the set torque is reached.. in my much younger years I did this a lot because I wasn't confident that the manufacturers suggested torque spec seemed tight enough.. it does happen. And in the case of rod caps, it can easily be detrimental. An 1/8 of a turn past torque could easily have done this
@@crispcarguru303 I could give five different mechanics a torque wrench and the same bolt. I would check all five bolts and I promise you all five bolts will be torqued to 5 different specs.
Could have been an injector failure. If it was stuck open or stuck closed, it could have flooded the cylinder and hydro locked it.. its fairly common and sometimes overlooked
I initially thought a spun bearing, but that wouldn't change the angle of the Con Rod to be destroyed like that. I'm going with the others that the gudgeon pin (wrist pin) failed. This would allow the Con rod to flail around inside the chamber like a dropped high pressure fire hose. After the compression stroke, the only place for the rod to go is through the block.
My head kinda goes to a bent rod finally giving up. The S65 injectors do have a rare issue of sticking open and essentially hydrolocking cylinders up and bending rods in the process.
Garage soda and sketchy lift placement, what a Sunday morning of excitement for us viewers!
Hahahahaha
I'm afraid it looks to me like a rod bolt dropped out (or much less likely, one broke), like you say, the crank looks clean where the rod is missing, so it can't be a bearing failure.
If a main bearing had failed, again the (adjacent) rod bearings would be damaged too.
If that cylinder had hydro-locked from say an injector stuck open, then yes the rod would've broken, but it would have broken in the beam section and the big end would still be attached to the crank.
To stand a good chance of answering the above, you'd need to find the rest of the rod, and the other rod bolt (& preferably the other 1/2 of the one you have a bit of).
If you put the pieces of the rod and bolts together like a jigsaw, you might be able to see the point of failure.
Don’t think it was oil starvation or overheating of internal components. Would like to see the rest of that piston/rod. I think the rod failed/came apart.
Overtightened, maybe.
You have acquired quite a nice fleet of vehicles! Love your passion for cars!
Thank you very much!
Happened to me: stuck open injector, hydrolock, then fatigued conrod. Didn't blow up immediately. Two years after, conrod split up in three pieces, out of nowhere, and there was a mark of fatigue in one of the pieces. Maybe that engine of yours suffered of a stuck injector and fuel hydrolock too, or as mentioned in other comments, water hydrolock, that could cause conrod fatigue the same way. ps.: my rod bearings were all fine as well as main bearings. No overheating marks. But there was a difference: mine didn't break the conrod & cap junction. It stayed connected, with bolts firmly on and intact.
That's wild! Possibly
I once had a wrist pin break after a rebuild, rod was destroyed, piston too, but the crank end stayed intact. This was a racecar so shut down quick. This was a 2.0 four, so much less rotatating mass. Anyway, I am in wrist pin camp, with a plugged oil feed. We watched you do all the bearings so I really don’t think one of the bolts backed out.
first thought, is that the rod bolt broke, and caused the destruction. Could from over torquing? 🤔
Came here to say this too.
nessesarry using metric torque specs
I also think the bolt broke
My thought too but am really surprised the crank wasn't damaged, that it's still smooth where the rod once was.
@@thebigv8644 haven't seen the complete journal ...I bet there's a few contact points on the journal ...no one is that lucky, lol
Very happy you decided to continue on the m3 very excited to see where this goes and maybe find it blew up like that
Almost looks like a connecting rod or wrist pin failure. Maybe look at the external oil squirter? Maybe the one for that cylinder got clogged with something
My guess is the injector stayed open and hydro-locked the piston. If/when you take the engine apart, I’d be curious to see if the piston arm is bent.
Bro you don't have to pump up the cherry picker all the way from the bottom you can loosen the release valve for the hydraulic cylinder lift the arm up all the way and while you have it up tighten the release valve and the arm will be in the upright position
I never knew that lol
@@matt13ross you can also do this with Jacks but it's honestly not as usefull
Crank bearings do wear on these as well it is explained on e39restoration channel where he was fixing his e92 m3.
As one of my dream cars I’d argue that it “can” be reliable but they have quirks. With this one I’d argue probably oil starvation around the bearings. The main design flaw for the bearings was insanely tight clearances so even when new ones are installed there are steps to be followed: on startup, let the oil circulate for a couple min before driving, always keep the revs down below 3k ish until the oil is up to temp (my previous bimmers said around 160), and use the highest quality oil you can get. For most cars it doesn’t matter but for motors like this it makes a difference. Also at some point the throttle actuators are going to let go as well.
This is a great series though. We have the same taste in cars and trucks (not truck wheels lol).
No truck wheel comments!!! Lol
Two minutes ? Design flaw if I ever heard of one
@@dietznutz1 It's by design. Completely normal for performance engines.
@TheRealDr.Mabuse if you have good oil the oil should still be sat in the bearings, the m3 is a very daily-able car, I'd expect that from a pagani, but when they were making that car they definitely had to take into consideration super cold starts and people not waiting for two minutes. Hell I wouldn't if I'm honest
@@dietznutz1 I’m sure they considered it and on paper that’s probably correct. They also changed the bearing material as well, which was a factor and the reason why the m5/6 v10’s had the same issue. But, lol, from real world driving conditions and experience, as well as feedback from hundreds of owners on the forums and first hand advice from the guys at Turner Motorsport, the m3/5/6 from this generation has to be treated carefully to be reliable. Once warmed up and even if you just let it idle on start until the revs go down (30 seconds to a min?) they should be good. Top tier synthetic oil every 5k max as well. Anything less and they like to leave the chat for no reason lol.
I love my 110K e93. Paid 1/2 of book for it with a repaired rear quarter salvage title at 88K. I replaced the motor mounts and regular oil changes are all I've done. If it blows up tomorrow I've gotten my moneys worth. They aren't quick by today's standard but that engine sounds amazing. Gas milage is annoying!
Second channel I've seen where they crapped out after the bearing change. Speed Academy's 100k e90 shelled about 3k after the bearing change at a track day.
If fitting a new engine, make sure the car's got a stock ecu calibration, as a bad tune may have cracked the piston
IMHO it has to be improper torque on a rod bolt or broken/defective rod bolt. I know I said before you played fast and loose on clearance checks (at least on video) but it doesn't look like a clearance issue. I think if the rod itself had an issue there is a reasonable chance the bottom half would still be on the crank. When i did rod bearings on mine I second guessed myself for months wondering if I am 100% sure I tightened all the bolts. As others said, check the tightness of the other bolts.
Love your vids man! One little tip, anytime when taking out the engine in a car, ALWAYS support it from the back, or front in a rear engined car. The weight difference in that little time will as you know, cause it to tip over, good luck with this car! I promise not all m3's are like this. I would also recommend not rebuilding the engine outside (which you can't anyway) but also when this car is outside, cap or block any outlets in the car, don't want anything getting in there! Much love man
Matt, 10w60 is way too thick for S65 S85 at a cold start. I use 5w50, thiner at cold start, 5w50 flows quick in oil galleys and tight rod bearings clearance much better than 10w60. I use in my e92 m3 without any issues. New England weather.
Too much of a Coincidence that rod failed just a few miles after bearings changed. If it was tighter tolerances created friction then you’d expect heat friction marks so full circle maybe it was coincidence old engine rod just gave up.
Just not too sure!
aparently injectors sometimes fail on these and stay open, washing out the oil film/ flooding the chamber until the connecting rod goes weak at the knees...
He boroscoped the engine and there was no fuel didnt seem like
Maybe on install you left that cylinder’s rod loose? Since everything around is so perfect and this failure was not at high rev, it could have been that.
previous work on the rod bearings was not put back together within spec, as a result you were driving a time bomb.
Sucks. I feel your pain here. I love my m3’s. Part of the game I say when you drive them aggressively. I’ve had one lock up and the another similar to yours here but it put a hole in the block. I like you here am unsure what exactly caused the failure, rod bearings were done about 20k miles ago. Main bearing failure I’m thinking but 🤷🏻♂️. It definitely wasn’t a stuck fuel injector for me.
As a couple have said already m359 restorations for me was a gem. When I started putting the new engine together I used his vlogs. Speaking of which I need to send him some monies for a beer on me.
Let's see the block opened! Will be Good content.
Thank you Gentlemen. I WAS considering one of these, but your video made me change my opinion. I would have chosen a problem child (its what I do), but now see the juice is NOT worth MY squeeze. Best of luck guys. Plus, your work space adds another 50% difficulty to this task. Even without that, I’m STILL not in the market for one. Check Speed Academy- Petes M3 crapped the bed also, and he went through a bunch (of time and $) to bring it back online.
It's unfortunate, but really the only manageable BMW engines to maintain and work on are the inline ones. Bought a 2011 535i (N55 inline 6) and the previous owner was a shadetree mechanic but apparently there was too much shade cause he couldn't see anything, cross threaded half the bolts in the engine bay. Had to take out the engine to fix all the bolts, did oil pan and rod bearings while I had it out.
The issue with these cars is their owners. I have fixed every single problem I have come across, but what bothers me is that I'll never really trust the car because I know there are so many components that if I wanted to check everything over like an aircraft inspection, it would take MONTHS.
I would guess that an S65 would take twice as long to overhaul as I did with my N55 (which was actually running. Rough, no noises, was just bad HPFP and clogged injectors). But with any used BMW I literally would not run it for more than 30s before rolling it into my garage and pulling the engine out for bearings. This is a neon example of bad ownership, but believe me, the majority are like this. Most people who work on these cars really have no business doing so.
This is very similiar to the s85 they both are super high performance egines that are built for track and racing they take intense maintenance that the previous owner never did. the s85 particularly is a f1 engine which is torn down and rebuilt after every race.
Matt, sorry to see some of the criticism that was thrown your way. After watching Sreten’s build, I give you a lot of credit for working with what you have. As far as the failure mode, while there is some great feedback here, the only way to find out what went wrong, is to tear the engine down. One thing that I find interesting is that for such a neglected car, I would think that the crank case would have been more heavily varnished. Lastly, while I have never had any variation of a 911, I do appreciate them and watching you work on them has been informative. What I do have is a G80 and an E90. There are times that I really appreciate the high strung nature of the S65, and there are times when I love the low end torque of the S58. Both are great cars. Yes, some of the content out there on the S65 makes me nervous. On the other hand, the E90, in my opinion, is a great chassis. I say that you should tear down the blown engine to try and find the root cause. In parallel to that, I hope that you find a new engine that you either rebuild, or are fortunate to find one that is ready to go. Best of luck to you. BTW, take it from someone who knows; protect your hands!😊
I will tear it down at some point just to see what's inside. Not rebuilding it though lol.
Most likely has a history of overheating which weakens the metal structure. This can lead to failure at anytime.
Im from France i have 2010 M3 im beating the hell out of it in Nurburgring every year and nothing happen only normal service. I wonder why always US BMWs has problems and breaks down ?
I think it was user error on the reinstall of the pistons. I think someone just didn’t tighten the bolts to specification. It loosened and let go.
try to enjoy the process and look at the bright side. You will learn a ton about the car, about working on cars in general, pick up some new skills, and eventually once its all back together again, will have an excellent m3 with hopefully many miles of carefree driving ahead!
My first reaction on the engine is one of the rod cap bolt backed out.
Yup. Me too. We had this on a Land-rover V8. No previous maintenance would have suggested this and very limited warning.
Looks like you broke a rod bolt while driving it. Did you replace the old rod bolts with new ones when you changed out the bearings? They are single time use as they stretch when you torque them.
Yup brand new ARPs
@@matt13ross ok cool, inaccurate torque wrench or defective bolt.
Either you forgot to torque the rod bolt or... there was just something damaged for before which just was not the bearing issue. Maybe something did go or had already gone to piston or that oil channel was partially glocked 🤔
Matt, I would be checking that those bolts are actually ARP. It is possible that a Brocken bolt caused this. On the other hand the rod itself could have had a discrepancy wasn’t easily picked up when the bearings were replaced. Looking forward to seeing more on this. Enjoy your videos man! Thankyou.
I got the ARPs from Turner.
Yeah fair enough, looking forward to seeing future updates, thanks Matt.
This may help aid in your investigation as to what happened to that connecting rod.
Probably abused for its whole life. I have an E90 M3, my friend owned it before me and never drove it hard until the oil was warm and serviced it regularly. I'm now at 130,000 miles and it hasn't missed a beat.
Def abused for years I'm sure.
Rod bearings a tale as old as time.. my mate has owned his E92 for coming up to 8 years and its a beautiful car, no issues no rod bearing replacement.
I was reading somewhere on here or Reddit that after 2011 they fixed the rod bearing issues
Failed rod bearing bolt? Is your torque wrench accurate?
Check condition of vanos covers and that they are still in place - they can break and block the oil flow…
Injector issue causing hydrolock of affected cylinder? Did the oil smell like fuel?
Timing failure/vanos?
Can’t wait to find out!
Can't wait either! Lol
I would say it broke the piston. That could also explain the noise you could hear before the demise
The rod bolt looks like it's broke either that or a hydro lock situation but it doesn't look like there was any water in it so I'm going to go with the bolt broke for the rod cap
I was the owner of m3e92 for 6 years. Bought the car from the first owner at 60k km. I was changing oil every year more less 8k km (was using car in summer months) ive always let the oil get hot before i play hard with my M. did rod bearings and throttle actuators at 100k. I never had any problem with the car. I guess how your treat it its what you get.
It was treated poorly long before I got it.
@@matt13ross yeah i know i just wanted to say that this is an amazing car but it needs some attention ;) im looking forward for your journey with yours!
I’m thinking a failure in the top end (such as a dropped valve) caused the piston to shatter and resulted in what you have here. I’ve seen it on a ford 5.4 3v where the valve stuck in the guide and caused similar results.
Great job as always. Too bad people have bought these M3s that should never have had them, like this one, long before you ever touched it. But remember, stay positive and keep going forward. Do not let naysayers get you down. And your video skills are getting to be very good. We always enjoy your content.
Thanks so much!
Dear Lord those quick jacks are terrifyingly wobbly, talk about a disaster waiting to happen
Just because it was unbalanced without the engine.
I've mentioned it before...I've seen them fail without warning. Treat it like a floor jack and don't trust it by itself, use stands at all times along with it to be safe
@@TheRealEarlLeeRiser - I think you're making things up or a confused with a different product. These have a backup brace bar on each side in the event the hydraulic lines or pump fails. Also if the car was on a 2 post lift and the engine &trans removed it would tilt back too. it's physics and nothing to do with the quick jacks!
@@hometheatre9978 why would I make things up? Unless there’s another product that looks like this and also called quick jacks then no I’m not confused. Has nothing to do with what happened in this video, I’m not stupid and I understand how balance and gravity work. I’ve seen what I’ve seen…you’re welcome to research it yourself. Won’t say another word though lol…y’all have fun taking chances, but if it was me I’d use common sense and not trust a tiny bar that can jump out of place unexpectedly.
@@TheRealEarlLeeRiserthey do have a locking bar in case of hydraulic failure that floor jacks don’t have, same as how a 2 post lift has locks that click as it’s raised so it won’t fall. I’m not anti extra safety or anything but they won’t collapse unless they were not locked properly.
ARP rod bolts cannot be reused. They will break if stretched too long. Is that what happened considering people replace the rod bearings often on this engine? You have to always use new rod bolts when replacing the bearings.
I didn't reuse them, brand new.
@@matt13ross I'm confused. You only drove it 5 miles. Did you do rod bearings before ever driving it? What I'm saying is, maybe the previous owner had the bearings serviced and that shop reused the bolts.
I did bearings before driving it yes. It was making an odd engine noise. After the rod replacement, no change.
I got anxiety watching this. Thanks for sharing all E9X owners appreciate it. I think the only way to know what happened is to inspect the top of the block looking at the main crank. Bet the noise came from up there.
Cheers from Portugal!
Was this engine rebuilt? I don't know much about the S65 but, if it was rebuilt, maybe you used new original rod bearings. - If you don't have bore scoring, you can rebuild the engine. Use a set of MAHLE Motorsport high compression pistons and I would highly suggest you use rod bearings from BE Bearings which offer more clearance than the original ones (search for the reference SP1527F-STD-S65). - This is one of the reasons that these engines suffer premature failures.
Look at the gearbox, it looks suspicious to me.
Excellent work👍
fuel injector stuck open on the cylinder and blew up with too much fuel. known problem in S65
We almost bought one of these back in 2018 (alpine white with fox red interior, great spec). But after the test drive I went with my gut and passed since I knew of the known issues these could present. lol. I will say though these are great cars once you can get past the faults. Great content as always!
Wonder if the other bolt backed out or let go, since there seems like no other real damage. The prior noise isn't a good indicator though, aince it blew so quick
By the way, to lift that engine crane arm quickly, open the valve and raise the arm. You don't need pumping it for hours. 😉
Rod bolt snapped.
Only thing I can think of is injector failure on that cylinder causing detonation.
The fuel sock deteriorates on these and can lead to debris in the injector. The debris gets the injector stuck open and can lead to cylinder wash or hydrolock.
I’ve got one and seeing all these videos it’s making me want to sell 😢it keep up the good videos
I think you would have a great benefit for cost, if you bought an engine stand. Because, you will need to disassemble the entire engine now to go further on investigation, and it's pretty simple to do you have the stand.
“I think we’re good, dude.” I love it when they talk technically.
What jacks are those, they are so cool😮 wanna get a pair to work on my upcoming 535d
Quickjacks. Pay for themselves in a couple jobs!
@ thanks so much bro, but ended up going for a much newer 520d, still gonna look into the jacks tho
mayby the piston 3 had a crack thats why it blew to pieces
I had an m3 back in the 00's when they switched to the faster desgin iteration cycle. It spent 4 months in the dealership in the first year with the most basic crap breaking constantly, thermostats, windshield cracking (not a stone chip), brake disks warping, ECU, demist, the list was endless. I ended up giving it back bought a Range Rover (which was perfect from day one) and then a 911 and had it for 17 years. I would never buy BMW even if they paid me, too much technology and not enough engineering.
I’ve had mine for 4 years and no major issues. 107k on original bearings.
Con rod small end failure? Near sure when you started the car after fitting the exhaust there is an engine rattle.
I would suspect maybe a cracked piston or broken ring?
Probably a damaged rod, high rpm will do that. Probably was beat on by the previous owner.
No matter how unrealible the m cars are, someone will always blame neglect. My neighbors well maintained m5 is on second motor due to rod bearings failure.
It reminds me of my car, it passed into the wrong hands and now it's being completely rebuilt again, the money I already spent I almost bought another one but you already know what it's like for those who like to spend and take care of it, those who are strong-armed are only good at destroying 😅
Definitely add jackstands moving forward
Could’ve been main bearing failure. I don’t exactly know why or how it can fail but it seems like it’s getting reported more as a failure point on s65s, it seems to be more of a issue on the later models since they changed the main bearing material to tin and it seems weaker. The earlier models have copper bearings and less reports of failure but it still happens. Could’ve just been abused and that possibility could’ve caused main bearing failure. Either way still a amazing car and as much as a engine failure sucks, I think it’s worth it to rebuild a s65 with all upgraded bearings and drop it in.
Hi Matt you have a couple of great projects on the go, it’s going to be interesting in how far you can take them 👍
That's the plan!
Really? ..... it blew up?😅 ..... just sharing here - having located in South East Asia the stock e92 M3 never got any major issues meaning no one need to swap in another engine .... for a tuned e92 M3, they tune it to 97 or 100 octane gas. ... keep in my the owners take on track days yada, yada, yada ... its back of their head oil starvation will be an issue but it will show up 3 - 4 days later while driving normally on the road.
The crankshaft main bearings on the S65 need to be changed every 50000km. Its the biggest flaw of the S65. I got this information from my dad whom is a mechanic ( not to say that he knows everything but advice from old mechanics should never be disregardet)
my jaw dropped when you peeled that paint, that is crazy 😂also happy for you after seeing a new impact, should make things much easier 👍
its a wrap
Finding out German is junk after a while. But they sure are fun cars to drive while they're good. Makes for great content.Time to part out the BMW v8 and go for an LS in the bay. Keep after it!!
Our Matt, more Black Apex 997 Rim Action pleaseeeeeeee
Good luck man! I had the exact same failure happen in my s85 from my e60 m5. I ended up rebuilding the engine, but im glad youre planning to swap the s65 for another one (probably a lot quicker and cheaper than a full engine rebuild!)
Yea I don't want to rebuild it lol
I think the StanceWorks channel nailed it last year in their video about BMW and its motorsport division. It was a fascinating and brutal takedown, and it's all I can think about while watching you take this thing apart. It was entitled "A disgrace to the letter M". And he's a huge BMW fan and builder. The Porsche content here is amazing btw.
Accurate video! I saw an XM in person. It's so awful!
That sucks man. I been seriously considering getting one n this sucks
Get a nice one lol
Next time please support the rear diff
The biggest issue with the S65 is that of the contemporary N54, which is much more economical, powerful and torquey. Even an FBO and a remap will take it north of S65 power and the N54 actually sounds sweet with just a half decent exhaust system.
Agree with that!
Has to either be main bearings or rod bolts snapped, could be anything. I would start at main bearings though, common issue on M3s especially neglected or not driven ones
Hard not to believe it has something to do with the rod bearing repair. Not to question your work. Would a failed rod bearing cause the piston to grenade?
Maybe?
Love these series, glad my M3 is not in such a bad shape haha
Get M539 on speed-dial, man. You’ll need him.
I think it was probably a bad install of the rod bearing. Maybe wasn’t torqued enough to hold.
I torqued new ARP bolts to spec.
Love the video keep them coming.
You replaced the rod bearings right? What do you think failed in the end? I hope it wasn’t the new ones you put on or how you did it idk. Either way it makes for me videos :)
Pull head. Or borescope. Dropped valve? Broke piston?
probably a bent rod/ deformed piston wrist pin hole from the previous owner and the rod let or piston let go during the drive?