Fire Giants definately S tier, they attack fast, hit hard, their special is strong, they are a ranged siege dmg unit (they have crush) decent health at 600 but incredible armor. Their only flaw is speed and they slow to build, but I seen just 3 fire giants destroy an entire front line, easily.
Problem is building fire giants are hard if the enemy knows you’re rushing that type of unit. This is why most mythic age units aren’t S tier just because they’re not strong but most of them require too much investment and by the time you do, you’re already done.
Yeah, Fire Giants are incredible, despite being slow. They just don't really have any hard counters. And Sons of Muspel are what makes Loki's end game.
For Medusa, the tooltip doesn't say "instantly destroying myth units", it says "instantly destroying most units". And by most, they mean only human non hero units. Myth units are no longer destroyed. They will turn to stone shortly, but then they will turn back. The duration is much shorter than Frost Giants disable. Unlike the Frost Giant special, I think the stone gaze does initial damage. So if 5 or 6 Medusas targeted a Colossus, they might even kill him with their combined initial damage. But it's definitely a huge nerf. Another problem with Medusa is that if you mass them and enemy has only human soldiers, the auto targeting isn't very good. So multiple Medusas will target the same enemy, wasting a lot otherwise free kills.
I think Cyclops should be way higher simply for the fact that it is strong against buildings. That gives you a good siege unit that can tank arrow fire while breaking towers or barracks fast.
Issue is, this is made by a really high level player. The cyclops would be quite easy to take down if you're ready for it, and obviously anyone at the very top of the leaderboard would be. So in a sense, no, it's not a good siege unit because most gods can quite easily deal with it before it can do any damage. Of course, for us peasants, it's a very strong unit. But that's how it works sometimes.
Good content man. In regards to cyclops, yes they are slow, but the age you first start getting them means you can have a meat wall of 4-5 at a fairly good rate with tox and 2 heroes supporting, and pestilence to shut down defensive building arrow fire. All that has to fought with classical age units.
Yeah, they can be like mini Colossi in classical age, except VERY cheap and they cost food. They're very slow, but if you get a few, they're basically unkillable by non-hero units when they come out. They can also be upgraded and Elder Cyclopes are a menace. I think the only problem they have is that heroes are now more accessible by most major gods.
centaur special is bugged cuz it deals more dmg to human units/heroes if the targeted units are near a myth unit since all MUs have bonus dmg against each other
@@mooseaomNot all myth units have bonus against each other. Most myth units have 2x multiplier. Some like Anubites, Valkiries or Argus have 3x multiplier, but some have no multiplier, like Mountain Giants.
I consider myself an intermediate player, but I am on a roll with the toxotes + Cyclops comps. The Cyclops soak up so much damage and do a ton of AoE damage, especially when upgraded. I don't even have trouble against army comps with direct counters.
One thing worth noting about Wadjets is that their DoT stacks. Get a group of them, stick them behind some melee units and target them on high-HP enemy units to watch that health bar melt.
automoton tip, create max pop of them delet half and train morem, they will rebuild the dead ones, congrats you doubled your army past your pop cap enjoy,fun in pvp when they dont expect it, but if your opponent gets wise to you it can be counters easy
Fire giant is hands down S tier imo. Prolly one of the best ranged and also deals much more damage to buildings than other ranged myth units which is a big big plus.
Cool video so thanks for it, but I have to disagree with many choices. I will try to explain my view and choices. I think overhaul your arguments were fine about them, but the tierlist is a bit weird built. At the end, you should have tried to place them according to several criteria, or to put forward criteria beforehand to have a better universality in the choice of each tier. For example, S is ''very strong / close to op'' (you could have make a S+ for true op so something that need instant nerf for example, but atm i don't see something like that except maybe centaur and i think it's more S than S+) if everything is op then nothing is really S. A is ''good'' so it's a very good choice that is most likely going to happens in most games but the unit is not that strong/op. B is ''situationnal but good in the right situation'', C is ''underwelming/very situationnal'', D is ''bad/don't use it''. I think fire giant is definitively S tier, I litteraly won a game because i killed so much toxotes with them, their special with micro is really good. I think Sphinx is not a B ! At worse A if not S, the guy is litteraly almost more picked than anubite (especially after serpent nerf, while eclipse is still great), I think his tornado spin is a bit worse than before but other than that he is the best early raiding units for egyptians, so yeah A is probably fine. Most myth units special abilities deal less damage overhaul, some benefit from it (like mummy) some don't (like avenger or medusa). I think Medusa being S is not accurate, they deal 400 flat damage, it's enough to one shot most human but not myth. They are decent with a good micro but S tier ? Nah. I don't see them as ''super strong''. They are a good counter to myth unit so A with good micro. The fact you mentionned some upgrades but not all of them is also weird. For example cyclops with upgrade are really strong (both ability and AA with aoe damage), while unupgraded they are meh. With the recent buff they are definitively a decent choice, probably almost the same power as minotaur now (better late, less good early to raid). Centaur is a bit op atm in comparison so definitively the best of the three. I think minotaur is still A BIT better because his powerspike in classical age is stronger, but with upgrades cyclopes is definitively way better.. Petesukos is a bit underwelming in my opinion, doesn't deserve A but more B, the buff is a good direction but i don't find them as good as a chimaera (who deserve A tier) for example. Same for phoenix : both greek and norse are better against air : greek hero attack air now and godi exist for norse. The damage feel a bit weaker than before. I think Lampades are decent but probably not A tier, i found them situationnal, the chaos ability and metamorph (upgrade) is probably not strong enough in this stage of the game. With a good micro maybe it's not bad (like medusas) but yeah... A is ''good'' not ''situationnal'' for me. So I think they deserve more to be B. Avenger is probably B in my opinion, their special damage feel so bad now. They are kind of squichy and despite being a bit fast I think they overhaul dmg is too low now. I think cyclops are higher than C, at least B tier, when I compare them to wadjet and automate they are way more useful. Not to mention they cost FOOD and are greek unit, so you can have a lot of them fast. I think Argus is more B than C. Yes the instakill was pretty op before but they wanted to get rid of it for every unit and the new ability can be useful to control the map, if they guy doesn't move he will take a ton of damage, you can cast it on the ground so with a bit of micro it's not that terrible. Probably not that strong but C is very dirty, the unit itself has a good mobility and damage output. I compare him to chimaera : he is very close, he have less burst but more damage over time and zone control, but he is better at killing things, especially after chimaera nerf. So in my opinion he is close to chimaera but a bit worse because chimaera burst while he deal more damage over time so you have more time to react. I think frost giant is more A than S. The unit is powerful but not that fast and their dps is a bit slow. Same for Colossus, i found the unit strong but it is ''super strong'' ? I don't think colossus has more impact than Chimaera, it just depend of the situation. Mountain giant taunt is really good, so i think S can be fair. He is a bit slow so not that easy to use so it's why I wonder if it's better to put him in A and not S but on paper the ability is so powerful... After the nerfs I think hydra is more A than S. Definitively S the last patch, but now it's a bit longer to have full heads. The unit has a insane potential but it's very snowball : if you are ahead, you will be more ahead, if you are getting your myth killed fast, you won't be able to have a big damage output. The chtonian upgrade make them very powerful but in 1v1 pvp you won't be able to sit down and wait that much for them to be recover full hp if the player know what he is doing. Still a great upgrade ! Maybe they are still S, but I think they are less powerful against a good player. But with bronze they can be amazing, but if you think about this synergy for hydra, you need to think about other synergy for others units for example. (Scorpion men with eclipse and sphinx with eclipse, so why you put sphinx in B ?) Apart from that (quite a lot lol) i agree with others myth units.
I really think he forgot Sphinx have upgrades, which makes them great through the entire game. And they're FAST. AND Bast has Eclipse, which combos so well with them AND every other Myth unit (since he talked about combos too). While upgrades are annoying for them, they only cost 120 gold from then on, which is a bargain. Medusae are very strong if you micro them good vs. basically everything, especially expensive human units, but it's ridiculous how Colossi or other giants counter them very hard, because they just don't do enough damage. But when upgraded, they become insane imho. Tanky snipers with overall decent stats. Similar to Lampades. Yeah, upgrades are important. Very important. Cyclopi can be like mini Colossi in classical age, except VERY cheap and they cost food. They're very slow, but if you get a few, they're basically unkillable by non-hero units when they come out. Especially Elder Cyclopes are a menace. I think the only problem they have is that heroes are now more accessible by most major gods. Also Sphinx and Anubite are both incredibly upgraded with upgrades. Anubite is only a harasser and Sphinx is only a defensive unit without the upgrades. He also forgot that Minotaurs now have AoE special compared to original, which can be pretty op vs. someone who wants to defend their backline. But they're expensive. Petsobeks (upgraded ones) are very good though, if you manage to keep them far back, as they can hit from a screen away for decent damage. Just need to be kept away well. I've played and seen games where the opponent couldn't do anything basically, because Midgols and units were in the way, and a few Petsobeks just fried everything that came out. Lampades, like Medusas, I find are the best vs. expensive human units - chiero, elephants, hetairoi, any cavalry, fanatics, etc. One doesn't do much, but three microed well can turn the tide of a battle in a second. They also have VERY fast recharge on their special. I don't think Avengers are bad, as despite them being squishy, they only cost 250 food, which is nothing at that stage, food being the most accessible resource. If you use them for charging between elephants or other "tank" units, they can do lots of damage and go through the frontline, directly into the archers (and can't really be kited). They are pretty squishy though, so if they're focused, they can fall quickly. Wadjet is basically only good early, but it can be very annoying in early classical fights, where poison shreds infantry. Automatons are just not good vs. human players. They're fun when massed in defense though. Yep, Argus is very similar to Chimaera when not upgraded. When upgraded, Chimaera Tyrant has more of a burst damage, while Guardian of Io has a really good and spammable map control ability, along with Lighthouse's vision range xD They're both extremely strong when opponent blinks or loses focus for one second though, as they can kill entire armies. I also find Colossus is basically just a very tanky giant, because with all of the units being buffed in Retold, his damage doesn't hold up anymore. The first one you get from aging is always a treat though. Frost giants are basically stun bots until upgraded, I would also put them to A or even B without Skadi Rime upgrade (like with Hel), as they just don't do much damage. I think a unit like Medusa does everything Frost Giant does, just much better. A few Frost Giants well microed can be very nice though, especially if opponents have squishy high attack units. Hydras are a bit squishy if not first farmed well in a defensive fight or something. As you sasid, good potential, but can be disappointing in 1v1. I also think a fully upgraded Sphinx with Eclipse is much easier to get and pretty comparable to an average fully upgraded Hydra, while a few Scorpion Men are just by all means insane, even without Eclipse. I'd just like to add Avengers with Eclipse - no upgrades required and they're world beaters. Get a few and nothing but heroes can stop them for a minute.
As a big fan it was a lot of fun hearing you talk about this...however as a tierlist purist this just isnt a good tierlist xD It so shifted towards the top its hard to really gain any knowledge from the list. If so many units are S tier and A tier that pretty much means none of them are trully S tier - if a unit of the very best tier can be matched by a third of the units its not really that amazing...Dont get me wrong its a great video - I am only suggesting to be bit more critical in future tierlists and reseve S and D for the absolute cream of the crop and the absolutely useless ones.. because the tierlist and the placements are always in the context of the other items on the list it really should at least mildly resemble Gauss curve..if so many are S then S pretty much loses its meaning. *Even if all myth units are generaly good* youre still rating them compared to each other - the myth units being good just becomes the new baseline. I personally would also kind of specify what the criteria are - is it pop efficency, deathball potential, cost efficency, number of good matchups, how often they're used..what are the main feats youre looking for in a myth unit. For example the Medusa - if you'd randomly get 10 of them in a game they're obviously amazing but I've never ever seen any to player make more than 2...theyre so expensive and also pretty situational - in my opinion that makes the Medusa nowhere near S. S should be you can always mass this unit and it's always at least decent and mostly great.
I realised afterwards that the tier list is weighted badly, should have gone in at the end and split some! Hopefully the discussion was still useful. There are no bad myth units so hard to call any D tier
I would agree with this post. I find that often the best tier lists use a bell curve, with ‘B’ being the average units. So B should have had ‘the most’, with ‘A’ and ‘C’ tier slightly less, and a handful of S and D--those that are truly exceptional, and those that usually should be avoided (not truly ‘F’-failed, but would normally not use). Some make tier lists that are relatively balanced across all grades. This one was massively top heavy. Like ‘Syndrome’ from The Incredibles says, ‘When everyone’s special, no one is.” Of the 39 units Moose ranked (no water units like Kraken or War Turtle); he put 12 in S and 16 in A--so 28 of 39 or 72%, whelp. Perhaps a standard bell curve list might have had, say, 5 in ‘S’, 9 in A, 11 in B, 9 in C and 5 in D. None-the-less, I thoroughly enjoyed Moose’s video…so you do you. D tier ones for me would include the Automaton and Wadjet. I don’t (probably unpopular opinion) actually put Roc in D tier as it is entirely unique; there is no other flying transport in the game, so I put it in C-even if you otherwise might generally avoid it. S tier ones for me would include the Valkyrie and Colossus; probably Centaur since they seem to be a consensus; Im just waiting for their eventual nerfs. I would love to hear your tier list on Minor Gods. Cheers.
@@mooseaomalso the tier list MUs should be compared to other MUs of same AGE and how does the alternative choice (across Civs) compares to it. For eg. when comparing Cyclops and Centaurs, they're completely different playstyle. Centaurs require a massed numbers to do a meaningful damage, which is great, however you need to sink in that many resources and time in doing so. While a single Cyclops can do a meaningful damage, and be a crush damage dealer, IN AGE 2, which is niche ability that is sorely missing in that age is not matched by any other Age 2 MUs. Thus, IMO Cyclops should be S tier while Centaurs are at best B. IMO, Age 2 S tiers that I can say for Age 2 are, Cyclops and Valkyrie. Also as much as I love Colossus, they're C tier, may be B at best, and in no way an S tier. The type of damage Colossus deals is scratched by so many other units, it's completely replacable as an Mythic age unit, it not even noticable.
I really wish the devs had caught that animation bug where units being picked up by the cyclops and kraken float 5 feet away from the hand/tenticle holding them. With gargarensis, it's even worse: When he picks up a unit to throw it, he goes through the animation, but the unit doesn't move, not until the throw action actually kicks in. No way that should have made it past the beta in to full release. I've actually released a mod that makes Argus, Cyclops, Kraken, Medusa, and Gargarensis special attacks instakills again (like they were in the original game). The Mummy still doesn't instakill, but i did up the amount of damage the poison effect does over time, so no matter what the mummy curses, you're usually garunteed to get a minion out of it. And the reincarnated minions don't die. Is that a bit broken? Maybe. Do i care? No :P Personally, i'd put the fire giant as S tier, as in groups, especially if you upgrade them, they're lethal, and move frost giants down to A. Wadjets i'd move down to D, as i have never been impressed by them. they die very easily. Krakens are definately S tier, even if their throw attack no longer kills human units by default, their capsize attack is still an instakill.
@@abbcc5996 no they still do that, it's when they grab human units and when cyclopses pick up human units, the units are floating in the air a lot further away from the model that is picking them up than they should be. You can see this if you go into the editor and test it. With Gargarensis, it's even worse; he doesn't even pick them up, he just goes through the motions of throwing them, the unit he's throwing just stays where it is until the actual attack is executed and it suddenly cartwheels through the air. It's VERY noticable (which is why I said i'm surprised it got past beta testing)
As someone who is familiar with the AoE franchise but not AoM, this tier list is really handy, and the way you show what they do in the editors map is sick, thanks mate
Rocs might be pretty bad competitively but nothing beats the funny value shoving your infantry in there like a clown car and air dropping 15 axemen on a town center
Fenris wolf brood really needs to be tested in group of six (as that is the limit). They reach 50 hack, and 7 speed. They are absolute skirmish assassin units, no one can out-speed a pack of Fenris wolves. You can use them to raid key positions and go away, if microed correctly there is no way that they cannot choose a fight they won't win. I don't think they are S tier, but they are good very cheap, and I really like to go tyr.
I feel Heka gigantes is an S tier, since I often find myself going Helios just for him. Such a good unit especially if you teleport him on top of mass ranged firepower like toxotes. He also deals so much damage that you can actually kill heroes with him, not cost effeciveily mind you, but especially if you have 3 or 4 of them they can be really tough for the opponent to deal with.
Imo you should compare them with their techs on since you're going to get them if you plan to play around such units. The difference between a non-teched colossi/chimera for example is kinda huge. But to be honest I would simply compare minor gods, because there isn't a case where you're going to select your god solely based on the myth unit you're getting, some are low tier but get insane upgrades, some are insane but get bad upgrades, it's a whole package to choose. Regarding the myth units I'm almost agreeing with all your choices, only for 3 of them I'm totally disagreeing with you: 1&2)I think that you're overevaluating piercing abilities like Draugr, most of the time you're going to get 2-3 units aligned at most so its dps is actually fairly low, I'd consider it a B tier, same goes for manticore, it's just a slow/more expensive centaur that doesn't feel like it's packing a punch. 3)On the other hand, teched trolls are one shotting squishy units in aoe with their boulders AND bumping units in aoe, I don't know why you don't put them S tier as most pro consider them one of the best age 2 myths. Some other minor modifications that I'd do: Frost giant & medusa -> A tier Lampades -> C tier (very very low hp pool, special is medusa from wish, no dmg/armor) Centimanus -> S tier (way too much damage and crowd control and tankiness) Automate -> D tier (garbage) Cyclops -> B tier at least (good overall/cheap unit with a good special for early skirmishes) What do you think?
Moose, love your videos, but this one I think you could do it differently. Be more context sensitive, like rating the units in they real life aplications. Looking at upgrades and the minor god powers etc. Maybe a tier list of minor gods makes more sense. If you have a list with half (or more) avaiable options at S and A tier, maybe you can remove B, C and D tier ones and rearrange S and A tier with comparison with eachother. Specialy getting their class right, with age and cost in perspective. Some mith units are siege weapons, some are control (like lamps, argus, etc), some are splash damage, some are special effect (like mummies), and you can think more classes than I do. But put this in perspective. Your knowledge of the game is way deeper than you showed us in this tier list.
You should do another tier list and make it so that each of the three options per age for each civ are required to be in separate tiers. It would really help to identify which are actually better picks on average in relation to each other. When everything is S and A tier, it essentially means that nothing is...
Automatons are pretty good for early defense. And you need just one to rebuild the whole army again. In Arena of the Gods they were my go to when you had no favor costs.
The Cyclops AoE tech is what changes it for that myth unit, I think early on there is the Minotaur window due to favour cost & not necessarily needing the unit's unique tech. But later, I'd rather make multiple tanky cyclops there with that 40% over the previous 30% hack armour for a Hades army especially... but also to boost the tankiness of a Poseidon divine damage Prodromos/Hoplite army (throwing units with a huge AoE damage kills enemy archers).
When you put Argus against Fafnir, Argus completely dominates the dragons. His special has been nerfed to the ground, buts he's now surprisingly tanky, and has a very good damage against myth units. I was surprised how well he does in combat by just auto attacks. I think he has 3x multiplier against Myth units. Most other myth units have 2x multiplier against other myth units, or no multiplier. Like Mountain Giant.
the Roc should be a warrior unit instead, being able to take a unit up into the sky (as a special ability) and dropping it and killing the unit and damaging any unit it lands on. for example if ít drops a horse then it will kill any infantry units it lands on
Lampades attack at halve the rate of a normal unit, and chaos doesn't reassign who they fight so your units and the chaos target will still attack each other in a brawl, the unit seems very micro heavy which is hard when things get chaotic in the mythic age.
Stymphalian Birds definitely aren't what they used to be and much, much easier to deal with now I think. Also yeah, Chimera got a CRAZY special now. EDIT: I also don't know this for certain but they did buff Fenris Wolves right? I feel like they used to only stack damage in a pack, but now they stack damage and MS. I definitely agree though, there's very few myth units that feel 'bad', especially with upgrades- I feel like Sphinx are pretty nice with their upgrades. I love how units like Mountain Giants, Fire Giants, etc. have gotten a facelift with new upgrades or techs (Dionysius and his Hydra tech)
Battle boars are WAY faster, take up only 3 pop instead of 5, are great against soldiers as well, but they cost gold and 20->27 favor. Still, the boar is so much more versatile...
About a few things i noticed. Androids : I think the selling point of them is more campaignwise or against AI when you dont care if they die ,,more favour for Oranos,, : I dont know if this is a bug from the german translation... but Gaia with 1 Favor upgrade got the same amound as Oranos. (0.8 -> 1.1 for Gaia / 1.0 -> 1.1 for Oranos. I guess its something related to max line of sight) Argus : i guess its kinda nice to let your enemy retreat? Im not sure about this but this looks like a situation where you can damage the enemy without any risk since hes retreating also : Great Video
I feel the Fenris Wolf Broods should get some sort of activated ability to give them a little more value. They did so for a few other myth units and I think just having something would be enough to make them more worthwhile. Part of me feels like they should have been a Classical or Heroic age unit rather than Mythic as they don't quite have that heavy impact that other Mythic age units have.
The behemoth is pretty neat if your enemy is greeding a TC a little too much, you can end the game right then and there with 4 hero oracles, 2 caladria, the behemoth and maybe 6 turma or w.e.
for the Fenris: yes you need more than one, but its helped by their very low cost for the age. that, and they arent designed to be frontline myth units, but a harasser and a killer of backlines. Yeah maybe a big group of priests can kill them, but priests have to catch them first, and with their speed in a group, thats just not gonna happen unless the guy using the fenris let it happen. I would still leave them in B as they are very situational as a myth unit, but when used within that niche (as a VERy heavy cavalry that moves as fast if not faster than light cavalry) they can really be a nightmare to deal with As for the boar, I also see it as a very useful frontline. Its health is high, and it also has 60% defense to both pierce and hack, which is very good values
I feel they should give the wolves some sort of activated ability to give them a little more shock and awe factor. I really love using them as fast cavalry or raiders, especially with Bragi's runes, but I feel they are a bit lacking compared to some of the other options.
It really depends on every god you're playing. If you play Loki or the DLC God (I think he was called Freyr?) you have access to Hel, where you get all 3 giants in the mythical age. And there you can even upgrade the fire giants instead of when you would play odin where you can upgrade the frost giants. But back to my actual point... Loki and Freyr are so overpowerd as main gods of the northern faction cause auf Hel who has not only access to all giants but ALSO to the nidhöggr. That is easily one of the best possible choices for the mythic age if you play northern folks inGame. And with each god having a bonus (i think it was zeus with having 200 favor in the old game and reduction of popularity prices or for Seth to convert normal animals into his army if i remember correctly for example) you can really build your own playstile around each faction and what suits you best. By the way I admit i forgot about the lions and always picked the other god alternitives to progress cause i didnt remember the stun ability. Nice to know that sometimes you can still learn something about a detail that you overlooked the entire time. Great video to clarify some things for me and defenitely giving some creatures i had not on my radar up until now a try or two and a lot more value.😎👍🏻
I have to disagree with cyclops because they get an AoE attack if u upgrade them and they can obliterate great numbers of units afterwards. also cyclops win against minitours I believe. I think they deserve an A. they got much more viable compared to EE.
Centaurs and minotaurs are so much better because you get immediate value out of the free one you get, you get value out of building a few of them only, you still get good value from massing them. Cyclops needs to be both massed and upgraded to matter, and on top of that if you can build them it means you chose the worst age 2 god power that Greeks get. I don't think you can call A tier something that comes with so much opportunity cost.
Hey man, I love your content. I want you to succeed, so I gotta give some feedback. I absolutely think you should have studied out each unit fully before making the list. It probably would have helped to write out a script and then do a bit of editing as well rather than just having all the units sitting on a map together.
Lampades in its current state feels buggy and clunky to use. The Chaos ability doesn't work as expected most of the time, affected units barely even attack when they are moving and have enemy buildings around, and only Transfiguration is worth of microing but is behind an upgrade. I believe they should be B tier in this tier list, extremely expensive, they require heavy macroing, they are squishy and you have to be really close to the enemy to cast something, it feels horrible to cast Chaos on an enemy Colossus and watch it do absolutely nothing... they were powerful on Titans expansion when the Chaos effect was permanent.
I just wish they changed the Valkyries to a ranged unit like Reginleif. Having my healing/support unit in the front getting killed is frustrating. I have to constantly micro them to the back, so they don't suicidally charge enemies in melee. May add a late game upgrade that lets them throw their spear.
Honestly I just either stand ground or by late game I literally enable the no attack just so that they would focus healing. Not really of a problem but you at least need to micro to not let them die. For me valks are op just because of their stats and the amount of upgrades valks have.
If you use the automatons as kronos and they "die" but you repair them, do they give back the 20%? Or is it just once they can't be repaired? Cause it'd be a nice strat to mass them even more
People being sleeping on the wdjat. Egyptians don't use a lot of lumber and these cost lumber. It's not hard to pump out a big group of very strong shooters
Question, this is the first footage of retold i see, did they rework the way specials works, where you can manually activate it like in other RTS? Or is it a mod / training ground stuff and they kept it random like in the original for battle?
I find it weird that Valkyries aren’t ranged but Reginleif is but I remember them being melee in the OG too, plus they’ve prob be too strong if they were ranged it’s just annoying you can’t make them stay back to heal automatically
Unfortunately medusae and colossi are not S tier. They scale really bad in numbers. Stacking 2-3 mummies is essentially a slaughter, so is stacking 2-3 fire giants. Imo any myth unit that doesn't have an AOE is pretty much outclassed by others unless there's some serious utilities to the table. Stacking 2-3 avengers is also a death sentence even for heroes. So fire giants should be S tier, colossi and medisae A tier. I do agree that nemean lions are insane. There should be an S+ tier just for them.
I disagree with the frost giant being S tier. The Nemean Lion is just better. Freezing a unit gives it loads of armor so its hard to kill. And stopping a soldier for a bit makes little difference in a fight. So its only good if you can hit an enemy myth unit. But frost giants are still somewhat slow, by the time they get to that unit they might be dead or take a lot of damage. But the Lion can stun the whole army for a short while. If there are two or more that stun really drops the enemy dps to 0. At the same time the stunned units dont have additional armor so your army can tear into the enemy units freely. And it can easily turn the tide of battle. I dont think we can compare them as equals. Then again I'm still a noob, my approach is a theoretical one.
I feel like Giants/jotuns are better than frost giants so you could switch them, whenever i rush with norse while rushing i will always and always pick the age that gives me giants that way i can start taking down buildings and transform my rush to a full on base destroy (you can still counter this with a bolt on the giant :( )
classical age Valkyrie and Cyclops seems very strong heroic age hydra with 5 heads is very powerful n the Stymphalian Birds mythic age mmm cant decide cause everyone is super strong i find heka giant chimera , the avenger ,fire giant unstoppable
Moose I love your videos, but can I ask one thing? Is there any chance you can make the audio louder? I am partially deaf in all fairness but I still feel the audio is quite quiet and it makes it a touch hard to listen to, especially when eating!
@@mooseaom the game to voice volume is absolutely fine to me, just overall I find I need to use 100 volume and still have moments where I want to bump it up then realise I can't. I will say that your old videos are much quieter so I have noticed the change but if you could push it up even more without breaking the audio then I'd really appreciate it :D
How tf does a priest counter a 580 health fenris wolf brood with 55% pierce? Despite the hero counter it should be close to an equal trade however why would you trade when they can run up to 7.4 speed and do 30 dps to vils or other units??
Why are the Rocs D Tier? They are a second Myth Unit you get, and you can literally drop units behind enemy walls, what is fucking OP. Also I recently played fenrir wolfes in campaign and spammed them to have a Pack of 10+, but they seem to only gain attack through the pack bonus and just drop like flies... should be c / d tier imo
As a Starcraft 2 player I 100% agree that lampades are at least one of the top 5 for me just because you get insane value just by making their other myth units chaos bound. The micro potential with multiple lampades are deadly, but I guess people underrate it just because it’s not a great unit for rush right click attacks.
You forgot to say Behemoth has regen and special ability that he takes less damage from attacks in front of him
This is the list of a person who didnt get all in rushed by Areses Cyclops.
5 hero oracles and 2 caladria and the strat is dead
toxotes + cyclops rush is currently so annoying
Ares cyclops rush is very strong
For me its not Loki player and hersirs make quick work of that cyclops while spawning a lot of myth units
@@barssahin9723 that's where your hersir got rekt by the toxotes, and never have the time to kill the cyclops
Fire Giants definately S tier, they attack fast, hit hard, their special is strong, they are a ranged siege dmg unit (they have crush) decent health at 600 but incredible armor. Their only flaw is speed and they slow to build, but I seen just 3 fire giants destroy an entire front line, easily.
Problem is building fire giants are hard if the enemy knows you’re rushing that type of unit. This is why most mythic age units aren’t S tier just because they’re not strong but most of them require too much investment and by the time you do, you’re already done.
Yeah, Fire Giants are incredible, despite being slow. They just don't really have any hard counters. And Sons of Muspel are what makes Loki's end game.
Yeah there's a reason they're mythic age and cost a lot of things and are mostly relegated to endgame, hence why they're probably not S tier.
I concur sir.
Shame that you didnt talk about every upgrades and how that changes the potential of units. Still nice vid!
Agreed! Great video, but could easily watched one twice (or three times) as long with discussions on the unit specific upgrades
Same here
Thanks, thought that would have been too long. Maybe I can do a separate video about myth unit upgrades (not a tier list)
Yeah because Cyclops upgrade makes them insane
@@mooseaom yes would be nice
For Medusa, the tooltip doesn't say "instantly destroying myth units", it says "instantly destroying most units". And by most, they mean only human non hero units. Myth units are no longer destroyed. They will turn to stone shortly, but then they will turn back. The duration is much shorter than Frost Giants disable.
Unlike the Frost Giant special, I think the stone gaze does initial damage. So if 5 or 6 Medusas targeted a Colossus, they might even kill him with their combined initial damage. But it's definitely a huge nerf.
Another problem with Medusa is that if you mass them and enemy has only human soldiers, the auto targeting isn't very good. So multiple Medusas will target the same enemy, wasting a lot otherwise free kills.
I think Cyclops should be way higher simply for the fact that it is strong against buildings. That gives you a good siege unit that can tank arrow fire while breaking towers or barracks fast.
Issue is, this is made by a really high level player. The cyclops would be quite easy to take down if you're ready for it, and obviously anyone at the very top of the leaderboard would be. So in a sense, no, it's not a good siege unit because most gods can quite easily deal with it before it can do any damage.
Of course, for us peasants, it's a very strong unit. But that's how it works sometimes.
- Everything you said then add the fact its in the classic age so you have a LOT less tools to counter. Could be an interesting all in
Good content man.
In regards to cyclops, yes they are slow, but the age you first start getting them means you can have a meat wall of 4-5 at a fairly good rate with tox and 2 heroes supporting, and pestilence to shut down defensive building arrow fire. All that has to fought with classical age units.
Yeah, they can be like mini Colossi in classical age, except VERY cheap and they cost food. They're very slow, but if you get a few, they're basically unkillable by non-hero units when they come out. They can also be upgraded and Elder Cyclopes are a menace. I think the only problem they have is that heroes are now more accessible by most major gods.
centaur special is bugged cuz it deals more dmg to human units/heroes if the targeted units are near a myth unit since all MUs have bonus dmg against each other
oh really? I didn't know that!
Write that down...WRITE THAT DOWN!!!
@@mooseaomNot all myth units have bonus against each other. Most myth units have 2x multiplier. Some like Anubites, Valkiries or Argus have 3x multiplier, but some have no multiplier, like Mountain Giants.
I consider myself an intermediate player, but I am on a roll with the toxotes + Cyclops comps. The Cyclops soak up so much damage and do a ton of AoE damage, especially when upgraded. I don't even have trouble against army comps with direct counters.
I found the same. Didn’t need to mix in counters.
Yeah, Cyclopes are basically Colossi of the classical age. Except they also do high damage.
How has that been shaking out vs Egyptians? Just curious because I feel like slingers/priests would be an unbreakable wall for that army
One thing worth noting about Wadjets is that their DoT stacks. Get a group of them, stick them behind some melee units and target them on high-HP enemy units to watch that health bar melt.
automoton tip, create max pop of them delet half and train morem, they will rebuild the dead ones, congrats you doubled your army past your pop cap enjoy,fun in pvp when they dont expect it, but if your opponent gets wise to you it can be counters easy
Fire giant is hands down S tier imo. Prolly one of the best ranged and also deals much more damage to buildings than other ranged myth units which is a big big plus.
Cool video so thanks for it, but I have to disagree with many choices. I will try to explain my view and choices. I think overhaul your arguments were fine about them, but the tierlist is a bit weird built. At the end, you should have tried to place them according to several criteria, or to put forward criteria beforehand to have a better universality in the choice of each tier. For example, S is ''very strong / close to op'' (you could have make a S+ for true op so something that need instant nerf for example, but atm i don't see something like that except maybe centaur and i think it's more S than S+) if everything is op then nothing is really S. A is ''good'' so it's a very good choice that is most likely going to happens in most games but the unit is not that strong/op. B is ''situationnal but good in the right situation'', C is ''underwelming/very situationnal'', D is ''bad/don't use it''.
I think fire giant is definitively S tier, I litteraly won a game because i killed so much toxotes with them, their special with micro is really good.
I think Sphinx is not a B ! At worse A if not S, the guy is litteraly almost more picked than anubite (especially after serpent nerf, while eclipse is still great), I think his tornado spin is a bit worse than before but other than that he is the best early raiding units for egyptians, so yeah A is probably fine.
Most myth units special abilities deal less damage overhaul, some benefit from it (like mummy) some don't (like avenger or medusa). I think Medusa being S is not accurate, they deal 400 flat damage, it's enough to one shot most human but not myth. They are decent with a good micro but S tier ? Nah. I don't see them as ''super strong''. They are a good counter to myth unit so A with good micro.
The fact you mentionned some upgrades but not all of them is also weird. For example cyclops with upgrade are really strong (both ability and AA with aoe damage), while unupgraded they are meh. With the recent buff they are definitively a decent choice, probably almost the same power as minotaur now (better late, less good early to raid). Centaur is a bit op atm in comparison so definitively the best of the three. I think minotaur is still A BIT better because his powerspike in classical age is stronger, but with upgrades cyclopes is definitively way better..
Petesukos is a bit underwelming in my opinion, doesn't deserve A but more B, the buff is a good direction but i don't find them as good as a chimaera (who deserve A tier) for example. Same for phoenix : both greek and norse are better against air : greek hero attack air now and godi exist for norse. The damage feel a bit weaker than before.
I think Lampades are decent but probably not A tier, i found them situationnal, the chaos ability and metamorph (upgrade) is probably not strong enough in this stage of the game. With a good micro maybe it's not bad (like medusas) but yeah... A is ''good'' not ''situationnal'' for me. So I think they deserve more to be B.
Avenger is probably B in my opinion, their special damage feel so bad now. They are kind of squichy and despite being a bit fast I think they overhaul dmg is too low now.
I think cyclops are higher than C, at least B tier, when I compare them to wadjet and automate they are way more useful. Not to mention they cost FOOD and are greek unit, so you can have a lot of them fast.
I think Argus is more B than C. Yes the instakill was pretty op before but they wanted to get rid of it for every unit and the new ability can be useful to control the map, if they guy doesn't move he will take a ton of damage, you can cast it on the ground so with a bit of micro it's not that terrible. Probably not that strong but C is very dirty, the unit itself has a good mobility and damage output. I compare him to chimaera : he is very close, he have less burst but more damage over time and zone control, but he is better at killing things, especially after chimaera nerf. So in my opinion he is close to chimaera but a bit worse because chimaera burst while he deal more damage over time so you have more time to react.
I think frost giant is more A than S. The unit is powerful but not that fast and their dps is a bit slow. Same for Colossus, i found the unit strong but it is ''super strong'' ? I don't think colossus has more impact than Chimaera, it just depend of the situation. Mountain giant taunt is really good, so i think S can be fair. He is a bit slow so not that easy to use so it's why I wonder if it's better to put him in A and not S but on paper the ability is so powerful...
After the nerfs I think hydra is more A than S. Definitively S the last patch, but now it's a bit longer to have full heads. The unit has a insane potential but it's very snowball : if you are ahead, you will be more ahead, if you are getting your myth killed fast, you won't be able to have a big damage output. The chtonian upgrade make them very powerful but in 1v1 pvp you won't be able to sit down and wait that much for them to be recover full hp if the player know what he is doing. Still a great upgrade ! Maybe they are still S, but I think they are less powerful against a good player. But with bronze they can be amazing, but if you think about this synergy for hydra, you need to think about other synergy for others units for example. (Scorpion men with eclipse and sphinx with eclipse, so why you put sphinx in B ?)
Apart from that (quite a lot lol) i agree with others myth units.
I really think he forgot Sphinx have upgrades, which makes them great through the entire game. And they're FAST. AND Bast has Eclipse, which combos so well with them AND every other Myth unit (since he talked about combos too). While upgrades are annoying for them, they only cost 120 gold from then on, which is a bargain.
Medusae are very strong if you micro them good vs. basically everything, especially expensive human units, but it's ridiculous how Colossi or other giants counter them very hard, because they just don't do enough damage. But when upgraded, they become insane imho. Tanky snipers with overall decent stats. Similar to Lampades.
Yeah, upgrades are important. Very important. Cyclopi can be like mini Colossi in classical age, except VERY cheap and they cost food. They're very slow, but if you get a few, they're basically unkillable by non-hero units when they come out. Especially Elder Cyclopes are a menace. I think the only problem they have is that heroes are now more accessible by most major gods. Also Sphinx and Anubite are both incredibly upgraded with upgrades. Anubite is only a harasser and Sphinx is only a defensive unit without the upgrades. He also forgot that Minotaurs now have AoE special compared to original, which can be pretty op vs. someone who wants to defend their backline. But they're expensive.
Petsobeks (upgraded ones) are very good though, if you manage to keep them far back, as they can hit from a screen away for decent damage. Just need to be kept away well. I've played and seen games where the opponent couldn't do anything basically, because Midgols and units were in the way, and a few Petsobeks just fried everything that came out.
Lampades, like Medusas, I find are the best vs. expensive human units - chiero, elephants, hetairoi, any cavalry, fanatics, etc. One doesn't do much, but three microed well can turn the tide of a battle in a second. They also have VERY fast recharge on their special.
I don't think Avengers are bad, as despite them being squishy, they only cost 250 food, which is nothing at that stage, food being the most accessible resource. If you use them for charging between elephants or other "tank" units, they can do lots of damage and go through the frontline, directly into the archers (and can't really be kited). They are pretty squishy though, so if they're focused, they can fall quickly. Wadjet is basically only good early, but it can be very annoying in early classical fights, where poison shreds infantry. Automatons are just not good vs. human players. They're fun when massed in defense though.
Yep, Argus is very similar to Chimaera when not upgraded. When upgraded, Chimaera Tyrant has more of a burst damage, while Guardian of Io has a really good and spammable map control ability, along with Lighthouse's vision range xD They're both extremely strong when opponent blinks or loses focus for one second though, as they can kill entire armies.
I also find Colossus is basically just a very tanky giant, because with all of the units being buffed in Retold, his damage doesn't hold up anymore. The first one you get from aging is always a treat though. Frost giants are basically stun bots until upgraded, I would also put them to A or even B without Skadi Rime upgrade (like with Hel), as they just don't do much damage. I think a unit like Medusa does everything Frost Giant does, just much better. A few Frost Giants well microed can be very nice though, especially if opponents have squishy high attack units.
Hydras are a bit squishy if not first farmed well in a defensive fight or something. As you sasid, good potential, but can be disappointing in 1v1. I also think a fully upgraded Sphinx with Eclipse is much easier to get and pretty comparable to an average fully upgraded Hydra, while a few Scorpion Men are just by all means insane, even without Eclipse. I'd just like to add Avengers with Eclipse - no upgrades required and they're world beaters. Get a few and nothing but heroes can stop them for a minute.
As a big fan it was a lot of fun hearing you talk about this...however as a tierlist purist this just isnt a good tierlist xD It so shifted towards the top its hard to really gain any knowledge from the list. If so many units are S tier and A tier that pretty much means none of them are trully S tier - if a unit of the very best tier can be matched by a third of the units its not really that amazing...Dont get me wrong its a great video - I am only suggesting to be bit more critical in future tierlists and reseve S and D for the absolute cream of the crop and the absolutely useless ones.. because the tierlist and the placements are always in the context of the other items on the list it really should at least mildly resemble Gauss curve..if so many are S then S pretty much loses its meaning. *Even if all myth units are generaly good* youre still rating them compared to each other - the myth units being good just becomes the new baseline.
I personally would also kind of specify what the criteria are - is it pop efficency, deathball potential, cost efficency, number of good matchups, how often they're used..what are the main feats youre looking for in a myth unit. For example the Medusa - if you'd randomly get 10 of them in a game they're obviously amazing but I've never ever seen any to player make more than 2...theyre so expensive and also pretty situational - in my opinion that makes the Medusa nowhere near S. S should be you can always mass this unit and it's always at least decent and mostly great.
I realised afterwards that the tier list is weighted badly, should have gone in at the end and split some! Hopefully the discussion was still useful. There are no bad myth units so hard to call any D tier
automatons are D tier
I would agree with this post.
I find that often the best tier lists use a bell curve, with ‘B’ being the average units. So B should have had ‘the most’, with ‘A’ and ‘C’ tier slightly less, and a handful of S and D--those that are truly exceptional, and those that usually should be avoided (not truly ‘F’-failed, but would normally not use). Some make tier lists that are relatively balanced across all grades. This one was massively top heavy. Like ‘Syndrome’ from The Incredibles says, ‘When everyone’s special, no one is.”
Of the 39 units Moose ranked (no water units like Kraken or War Turtle); he put 12 in S and 16 in A--so 28 of 39 or 72%, whelp. Perhaps a standard bell curve list might have had, say, 5 in ‘S’, 9 in A, 11 in B, 9 in C and 5 in D.
None-the-less, I thoroughly enjoyed Moose’s video…so you do you.
D tier ones for me would include the Automaton and Wadjet. I don’t (probably unpopular opinion) actually put Roc in D tier as it is entirely unique; there is no other flying transport in the game, so I put it in C-even if you otherwise might generally avoid it.
S tier ones for me would include the Valkyrie and Colossus; probably Centaur since they seem to be a consensus; Im just waiting for their eventual nerfs.
I would love to hear your tier list on Minor Gods.
Cheers.
@@mooseaomalso the tier list MUs should be compared to other MUs of same AGE and how does the alternative choice (across Civs) compares to it.
For eg. when comparing Cyclops and Centaurs, they're completely different playstyle. Centaurs require a massed numbers to do a meaningful damage, which is great, however you need to sink in that many resources and time in doing so. While a single Cyclops can do a meaningful damage, and be a crush damage dealer, IN AGE 2, which is niche ability that is sorely missing in that age is not matched by any other Age 2 MUs. Thus, IMO Cyclops should be S tier while Centaurs are at best B.
IMO, Age 2 S tiers that I can say for Age 2 are, Cyclops and Valkyrie.
Also as much as I love Colossus, they're C tier, may be B at best, and in no way an S tier. The type of damage Colossus deals is scratched by so many other units, it's completely replacable as an Mythic age unit, it not even noticable.
I really wish the devs had caught that animation bug where units being picked up by the cyclops and kraken float 5 feet away from the hand/tenticle holding them. With gargarensis, it's even worse: When he picks up a unit to throw it, he goes through the animation, but the unit doesn't move, not until the throw action actually kicks in. No way that should have made it past the beta in to full release.
I've actually released a mod that makes Argus, Cyclops, Kraken, Medusa, and Gargarensis special attacks instakills again (like they were in the original game). The Mummy still doesn't instakill, but i did up the amount of damage the poison effect does over time, so no matter what the mummy curses, you're usually garunteed to get a minion out of it. And the reincarnated minions don't die.
Is that a bit broken? Maybe. Do i care? No :P
Personally, i'd put the fire giant as S tier, as in groups, especially if you upgrade them, they're lethal, and move frost giants down to A. Wadjets i'd move down to D, as i have never been impressed by them. they die very easily. Krakens are definately S tier, even if their throw attack no longer kills human units by default, their capsize attack is still an instakill.
kraken no longer wraps his tentacles around the ship and drag them down in retold? thats a bummer. one of the cooler animations from the original game
@@abbcc5996 no they still do that, it's when they grab human units and when cyclopses pick up human units, the units are floating in the air a lot further away from the model that is picking them up than they should be. You can see this if you go into the editor and test it. With Gargarensis, it's even worse; he doesn't even pick them up, he just goes through the motions of throwing them, the unit he's throwing just stays where it is until the actual attack is executed and it suddenly cartwheels through the air. It's VERY noticable (which is why I said i'm surprised it got past beta testing)
@@TheGuardianofAzarath It's a bug and will be corrected from what I know (I reported them and they are under investigation apparently)
One overlooked aspect of the lampades is that they deal 20 crush damage making them an okay siege unit when massed.
As someone who is familiar with the AoE franchise but not AoM, this tier list is really handy, and the way you show what they do in the editors map is sick, thanks mate
"theyre not bad.... A tier"
Rocs might be pretty bad competitively but nothing beats the funny value shoving your infantry in there like a clown car and air dropping 15 axemen on a town center
I think you can put soldiers in the siege tower and put them into the roc so you can transport 5 times as many. Maybe this works only in the legacy
Fenris wolf brood really needs to be tested in group of six (as that is the limit). They reach 50 hack, and 7 speed. They are absolute skirmish assassin units, no one can out-speed a pack of Fenris wolves. You can use them to raid key positions and go away, if microed correctly there is no way that they cannot choose a fight they won't win. I don't think they are S tier, but they are good very cheap, and I really like to go tyr.
dusa and phoenix in A+ tier? crazy
I feel Heka gigantes is an S tier, since I often find myself going Helios just for him.
Such a good unit especially if you teleport him on top of mass ranged firepower like toxotes.
He also deals so much damage that you can actually kill heroes with him, not cost effeciveily mind you, but especially if you have 3 or 4 of them they can be really tough for the opponent to deal with.
Imo you should compare them with their techs on since you're going to get them if you plan to play around such units.
The difference between a non-teched colossi/chimera for example is kinda huge.
But to be honest I would simply compare minor gods, because there isn't a case where you're going to select your god solely based on the myth unit you're getting, some are low tier but get insane upgrades, some are insane but get bad upgrades, it's a whole package to choose.
Regarding the myth units I'm almost agreeing with all your choices, only for 3 of them I'm totally disagreeing with you:
1&2)I think that you're overevaluating piercing abilities like Draugr, most of the time you're going to get 2-3 units aligned at most so its dps is actually fairly low, I'd consider it a B tier, same goes for manticore, it's just a slow/more expensive centaur that doesn't feel like it's packing a punch.
3)On the other hand, teched trolls are one shotting squishy units in aoe with their boulders AND bumping units in aoe, I don't know why you don't put them S tier as most pro consider them one of the best age 2 myths.
Some other minor modifications that I'd do:
Frost giant & medusa -> A tier
Lampades -> C tier (very very low hp pool, special is medusa from wish, no dmg/armor)
Centimanus -> S tier (way too much damage and crowd control and tankiness)
Automate -> D tier (garbage)
Cyclops -> B tier at least (good overall/cheap unit with a good special for early skirmishes)
What do you think?
Phoenix and Wadjets may not be busted, but they are absolutelly beautiful...
Miss the old goofy exaggerated animation of wadjets spit XD
The working conditions of red hoplites is downright atrocious in here. I demand a union!
Moose, love your videos, but this one I think you could do it differently.
Be more context sensitive, like rating the units in they real life aplications. Looking at upgrades and the minor god powers etc. Maybe a tier list of minor gods makes more sense.
If you have a list with half (or more) avaiable options at S and A tier, maybe you can remove B, C and D tier ones and rearrange S and A tier with comparison with eachother. Specialy getting their class right, with age and cost in perspective.
Some mith units are siege weapons, some are control (like lamps, argus, etc), some are splash damage, some are special effect (like mummies), and you can think more classes than I do. But put this in perspective. Your knowledge of the game is way deeper than you showed us in this tier list.
I should have gone in at the end and readjusted, agreed the tier list was too top heavy!
You should do another tier list and make it so that each of the three options per age for each civ are required to be in separate tiers. It would really help to identify which are actually better picks on average in relation to each other. When everything is S and A tier, it essentially means that nothing is...
Automatons are pretty good for early defense. And you need just one to rebuild the whole army again. In Arena of the Gods they were my go to when you had no favor costs.
The Cyclops AoE tech is what changes it for that myth unit, I think early on there is the Minotaur window due to favour cost & not necessarily needing the unit's unique tech. But later, I'd rather make multiple tanky cyclops there with that 40% over the previous 30% hack armour for a Hades army especially... but also to boost the tankiness of a Poseidon divine damage Prodromos/Hoplite army (throwing units with a huge AoE damage kills enemy archers).
When you put Argus against Fafnir, Argus completely dominates the dragons. His special has been nerfed to the ground, buts he's now surprisingly tanky, and has a very good damage against myth units. I was surprised how well he does in combat by just auto attacks. I think he has 3x multiplier against Myth units. Most other myth units have 2x multiplier against other myth units, or no multiplier. Like Mountain Giant.
the Roc should be a warrior unit instead, being able to take a unit up into the sky (as a special ability) and dropping it and killing the unit and damaging any unit it lands on. for example if ít drops a horse then it will kill any infantry units it lands on
You are forgetting the ultimate myth unit: The Lazer Bear!
cyclops is amasing on ahdes, it cost food which your archers dont, it has crush damage aswell great for buildings. it should be a tier in my opinion
Lampades attack at halve the rate of a normal unit, and chaos doesn't reassign who they fight so your units and the chaos target will still attack each other in a brawl, the unit seems very micro heavy which is hard when things get chaotic in the mythic age.
Stymphalian Birds definitely aren't what they used to be and much, much easier to deal with now I think. Also yeah, Chimera got a CRAZY special now.
EDIT: I also don't know this for certain but they did buff Fenris Wolves right? I feel like they used to only stack damage in a pack, but now they stack damage and MS. I definitely agree though, there's very few myth units that feel 'bad', especially with upgrades- I feel like Sphinx are pretty nice with their upgrades. I love how units like Mountain Giants, Fire Giants, etc. have gotten a facelift with new upgrades or techs (Dionysius and his Hydra tech)
hi! Is this list updated or has any units changed?
Medusa used to be a literal one shot now she isn't and for that simple reason she can not be S tier.
Wrong. Medusa still one shot units just not the ones with high HP and they will still lose health. Plus their stats got buffed ALOT.
The behemoth regens health, does not change the fact there slow and hard to use just another alt for seige that does not cost gold i think
Battle boars are WAY faster, take up only 3 pop instead of 5, are great against soldiers as well, but they cost gold and 20->27 favor.
Still, the boar is so much more versatile...
missed opportunity to talk about the sun of muspell upgrade for fire giants. def make them S tier in that case where thats an option
About a few things i noticed.
Androids : I think the selling point of them is more campaignwise or against AI when you dont care if they die
,,more favour for Oranos,, : I dont know if this is a bug from the german translation... but Gaia with 1 Favor upgrade got the same amound as Oranos.
(0.8 -> 1.1 for Gaia / 1.0 -> 1.1 for Oranos. I guess its something related to max line of sight)
Argus : i guess its kinda nice to let your enemy retreat? Im not sure about this but this looks like a situation where you can damage the enemy without any risk since hes retreating
also : Great Video
I feel the Fenris Wolf Broods should get some sort of activated ability to give them a little more value. They did so for a few other myth units and I think just having something would be enough to make them more worthwhile. Part of me feels like they should have been a Classical or Heroic age unit rather than Mythic as they don't quite have that heavy impact that other Mythic age units have.
The behemoth is pretty neat if your enemy is greeding a TC a little too much, you can end the game right then and there with 4 hero oracles, 2 caladria, the behemoth and maybe 6 turma or w.e.
for the Fenris: yes you need more than one, but its helped by their very low cost for the age. that, and they arent designed to be frontline myth units, but a harasser and a killer of backlines. Yeah maybe a big group of priests can kill them, but priests have to catch them first, and with their speed in a group, thats just not gonna happen unless the guy using the fenris let it happen. I would still leave them in B as they are very situational as a myth unit, but when used within that niche (as a VERy heavy cavalry that moves as fast if not faster than light cavalry) they can really be a nightmare to deal with
As for the boar, I also see it as a very useful frontline. Its health is high, and it also has 60% defense to both pierce and hack, which is very good values
I feel they should give the wolves some sort of activated ability to give them a little more shock and awe factor. I really love using them as fast cavalry or raiders, especially with Bragi's runes, but I feel they are a bit lacking compared to some of the other options.
It really depends on every god you're playing.
If you play Loki or the DLC God (I think he was called Freyr?) you have access to Hel, where you get all 3 giants in the mythical age. And there you can even upgrade the fire giants instead of when you would play odin where you can upgrade the frost giants. But back to my actual point... Loki and Freyr are so overpowerd as main gods of the northern faction cause auf Hel who has not only access to all giants but ALSO to the nidhöggr. That is easily one of the best possible choices for the mythic age if you play northern folks inGame.
And with each god having a bonus (i think it was zeus with having 200 favor in the old game and reduction of popularity prices or for Seth to convert normal animals into his army if i remember correctly for example) you can really build your own playstile around each faction and what suits you best.
By the way I admit i forgot about the lions and always picked the other god alternitives to progress cause i didnt remember the stun ability. Nice to know that sometimes you can still learn something about a detail that you overlooked the entire time.
Great video to clarify some things for me and defenitely giving some creatures i had not on my radar up until now a try or two and a lot more value.😎👍🏻
Cyclops is S tier after the patch. It’s an awesome siege unit for classical age. And so tanky
I agree with pretty much everything except Fire Giants being A tier....they absolutely wreck both units and buildings
I feel like the cyclopse is good. Especially the cost is great. Pure food cost units are great.
Can you make more tier lists like this for infantry etc.?
By the way, there is no reason to talk about pierce armor of myth units when talking about Egypt priests, as they do divine damage ignoring all armor
I have to disagree with cyclops because they get an AoE attack if u upgrade them and they can obliterate great numbers of units afterwards. also cyclops win against minitours I believe. I think they deserve an A. they got much more viable compared to EE.
Cyclops after better after the buff for sure, just more expensive and slower than a minotaur
Centaurs and minotaurs are so much better because you get immediate value out of the free one you get, you get value out of building a few of them only, you still get good value from massing them. Cyclops needs to be both massed and upgraded to matter, and on top of that if you can build them it means you chose the worst age 2 god power that Greeks get. I don't think you can call A tier something that comes with so much opportunity cost.
I like how that the Satyr got S tier
Hey man, I love your content.
I want you to succeed, so I gotta give some feedback.
I absolutely think you should have studied out each unit fully before making the list. It probably would have helped to write out a script and then do a bit of editing as well rather than just having all the units sitting on a map together.
Cyclopes have an AOE damage on hits... at least he did today :P
Lampades in its current state feels buggy and clunky to use. The Chaos ability doesn't work as expected most of the time, affected units barely even attack when they are moving and have enemy buildings around, and only Transfiguration is worth of microing but is behind an upgrade. I believe they should be B tier in this tier list, extremely expensive, they require heavy macroing, they are squishy and you have to be really close to the enemy to cast something, it feels horrible to cast Chaos on an enemy Colossus and watch it do absolutely nothing... they were powerful on Titans expansion when the Chaos effect was permanent.
Prometheans are SSS tier because they enable the 3:05 Kronos rush to be so deadly
Frost giant as S-tier but not Fire giant or Centimanus is ridiculous lol
I just wish they changed the Valkyries to a ranged unit like Reginleif. Having my healing/support unit in the front getting killed is frustrating. I have to constantly micro them to the back, so they don't suicidally charge enemies in melee.
May add a late game upgrade that lets them throw their spear.
I haven't played multiplayer yet, but I order them to stand ground or defensive during the campaign so they stay in the back
Honestly I just either stand ground or by late game I literally enable the no attack just so that they would focus healing. Not really of a problem but you at least need to micro to not let them die. For me valks are op just because of their stats and the amount of upgrades valks have.
The game should force them to only heal and not attack if you put them on constent healing
If you use the automatons as kronos and they "die" but you repair them, do they give back the 20%? Or is it just once they can't be repaired? Cause it'd be a nice strat to mass them even more
No they need to be gone for good to get the refund.
Cool video !
You forgot dryades though, too bad.
Atlantean myth units seem underwhelming
Poison in this game is crazy
My elephants just get shreedded by amything poison
Scarabs are good vs human units and buildings. The description says so.
Centimanus definitely deserves to be in S tier
Its is good to have a Tier list but dont Limit yourself to the Tier list based only on Myth Units only
Laser croc needs a nerf, shreds way too easy for how spammable it is
People being sleeping on the wdjat. Egyptians don't use a lot of lumber and these cost lumber. It's not hard to pump out a big group of very strong shooters
Question, this is the first footage of retold i see, did they rework the way specials works, where you can manually activate it like in other RTS? Or is it a mod / training ground stuff and they kept it random like in the original for battle?
Sorry to be that guy but u forgot the Dryad's from the Herpedris tree. Which can be be a decent compensation for an army lacking seige or infrantry
I got rushed by a few Cyclopes and they picked up units and I guess threw at the same spot and it Insta killed half my units
so we can note myth units are in general great xD a bit top heavy list, maybe a S+ Tier helps to differintiate a bit more
I find it weird that Valkyries aren’t ranged but Reginleif is but I remember them being melee in the OG too, plus they’ve prob be too strong if they were ranged it’s just annoying you can’t make them stay back to heal automatically
Unfortunately medusae and colossi are not S tier. They scale really bad in numbers. Stacking 2-3 mummies is essentially a slaughter, so is stacking 2-3 fire giants. Imo any myth unit that doesn't have an AOE is pretty much outclassed by others unless there's some serious utilities to the table. Stacking 2-3 avengers is also a death sentence even for heroes.
So fire giants should be S tier, colossi and medisae A tier.
I do agree that nemean lions are insane. There should be an S+ tier just for them.
I disagree with the frost giant being S tier. The Nemean Lion is just better.
Freezing a unit gives it loads of armor so its hard to kill. And stopping a soldier for a bit makes little difference in a fight.
So its only good if you can hit an enemy myth unit. But frost giants are still somewhat slow, by the time they get to that unit they might be dead or take a lot of damage.
But the Lion can stun the whole army for a short while. If there are two or more that stun really drops the enemy dps to 0.
At the same time the stunned units dont have additional armor so your army can tear into the enemy units freely. And it can easily turn the tide of battle.
I dont think we can compare them as equals.
Then again I'm still a noob, my approach is a theoretical one.
I feel like Giants/jotuns are better than frost giants so you could switch them, whenever i rush with norse while rushing i will always and always pick the age that gives me giants that way i can start taking down buildings and transform my rush to a full on base destroy (you can still counter this with a bolt on the giant :( )
classical age Valkyrie and Cyclops seems very strong
heroic age hydra with 5 heads is very powerful n
the Stymphalian Birds
mythic age mmm cant decide cause everyone is super strong i find heka giant chimera , the avenger ,fire giant unstoppable
Can I ask you one question? Scarab is now stronger than War Elephant and can win in a 1vs1 fight, right?
It's kinda hard to tell what's better than what if half the units are in A and S tier lol
Cyclops is getting way too much disrespect imho
Do Medusa still one-shot then? I thought they'd removed that since beta, or is the tooltip wrong?
Croc is s tier meta gameplay priests and crocs
23:16 as he proceeds to misread it again.
Thanks for the video
Laser crocs SSS tier
Moose I love your videos, but can I ask one thing? Is there any chance you can make the audio louder? I am partially deaf in all fairness but I still feel the audio is quite quiet and it makes it a touch hard to listen to, especially when eating!
Thanks! I raised the volume on videos since retolds release but I can have another look. Would it help if the game was a bit quieter?
@@mooseaom the game to voice volume is absolutely fine to me, just overall I find I need to use 100 volume and still have moments where I want to bump it up then realise I can't. I will say that your old videos are much quieter so I have noticed the change but if you could push it up even more without breaking the audio then I'd really appreciate it :D
How tf does a priest counter a 580 health fenris wolf brood with 55% pierce? Despite the hero counter it should be close to an equal trade however why would you trade when they can run up to 7.4 speed and do 30 dps to vils or other units??
Why are the Rocs D Tier? They are a second Myth Unit you get, and you can literally drop units behind enemy walls, what is fucking OP.
Also I recently played fenrir wolfes in campaign and spammed them to have a Pack of 10+, but they seem to only gain attack through the pack bonus and just drop like flies... should be c / d tier imo
Greeks have have the S tier myth units. Typical.
doesn't sphinx have a damage multiplier against heroes and/or myth units?
Automatons still worse, because Leto is the worst Minor God. Ty for vid
How does the ranking number work?
You comment on Roc but not Dryad??
Heka Gigantes and Fire Giants the same Tier as Lampedes and Phoenix ..... Come on bro 😃
cyclops and sphynx CB? lmao if they are the best siege early game tho!
Worst tier list I’ve seen
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOO
Dude i wish the automatons were better but they are like the worst myth unit in the game by far they need a buff
do it with basic unit
I don't agree at least hald of a tier can move down
풀업기준 티어표도 만들어야겠지..?
I think thr sphinx has been nerfed it feels weaker
lampades are so underrated, just throw 2 your army and micro them a little and you get insane value
As a Starcraft 2 player I 100% agree that lampades are at least one of the top 5 for me just because you get insane value just by making their other myth units chaos bound. The micro potential with multiple lampades are deadly, but I guess people underrate it just because it’s not a great unit for rush right click attacks.