They can build though and generate favor. You get favor for free as opposed to say greek, eggy or atty to some extent, meaning they cost less as they generate part of their cost back. If you take that into account, they will probably jump a tier
axemen in C tier is kinda misleading. As a backline, they often have something meatshielding for them, and the bigger you make both armies, the more dangerous their ranged capabilities compared to melee infantry become. That, and burnign pitch turn them into maybe THE best building destroyer of the game with how spammable and mobile they are compared to siege engines, while still being very valuable against troops. They may not win 1v1s, but as a staple of a norse army, they are deadly especially as cavalry dies to them faster than to most other ranged troops thanks to the hack damage
@@thorveim1174 totally agree, but I think this tier list refers to them as mainline infantry, as he also made a tier list for ranged units and the throwing axeman were included. I don’t remember their ranking however
I like these deep dives into the unit stats. I think it would be helpful also considering unique techs or passive bonuses, particularly ones available at the point when you would start using the unit. For example the Oceanus/Athena techs for infantry and if it changes any of the conclusions. If one in particular has much better unique techs, that could change the tier list standings. I know that is not always super helpful to look beyond base stats as minor gods are more often picked for god powers, myth units, or other reasons.
This would be very important, but is more a matter of Build Order and matchup META strategy and no more a unit analysis. There are just to many variable to keep track of if you gonna consider every unit in every upgrade state possible. Would be awesome in strategy guides tho.
This is really compelling to watch. One argument I have is that I don't feel you factor the Norse Infantry capacity to build appropriately - sure the Hirdman is a little frailer than a Katapeltes and the Throwing Axeman doesn't have the Bonus Damage of a Hypaspist but Norse Infantry will always be difficult to fight thanks to its capacity to push forward so well. Imagine if the Egyptian Spearman were able to build forward bases or steal TC's - that would probably bump up your opinion of it significantly.
Yes and their cost and hp is cheap because you need a lot of inf to gain favor. You send wave after wave. Buff them with Einjar and demolish every army
@@sharifkabir-d8e i dont think its fair to see it this way: they only generate favor by fighting, where they are liable to get killed. In that case its more appropriate to say that norse troops convert a portion of their cost into favor, that portion being much more favorable if you take little losses. Norse heroes however do count as villagers in that regard since they generate passive favor (and that plus their protection against myth abilities and higher health per troop means that as Thor, hersirs tend to form my frontline until the later game, berserks just lose all hope of being a frontline the moment splash damage appears as they are so frail that they will inevitably take massive losses)
Your improvement curve is crazy good to me in these videos. Everything (to me) is better than the first time I watched: Audio, cohesion, entertainment, ideas, information. Everything improved, I'm glad I started following due to your reply, I'm glad Viper has you in such a high regard and credits you (because you earnt it as a AoM player and now content creator) and I'm happy to see your videos getting so many visits. Please keep improving, I want a like Viper, like Hera, like Spirit of the law but their own man for AoM and I think you will be it.
I think the main draw of the Mymidon that isn't mentioned here is that they soft counter myth units. And with myth units being so good, I think they are S tier for that. If you had to throw infantry into the grinder against a Titan, the Myrmidon is the one that's gonna do best.
Yayyy i hope your channel, grows and grows. Youre an AoM legend, and it would be so nice to see this beloved game grow with the support of creators like yourself, Boit etc.
Hi! Thank You for the video 🤗😊 More HP means a longer time spent alive dealing damage! I think that's why the fanatics did better than the myrmidons even though divine damage ignores all resistance: they died slower and got to do more attacks in the meantime
Great job again man! Tier list is perfect, hard to argue against the numbers! My only consideration is about the myrmidon x fanatic tier, IMO, considering both are available only late game, I would prefer a unit dealing divine damage cause at that stage the opponent is probably gonna have at least decent armory upgrades making Fanatics DPS lower. Maybe would be a cool experiment run the same simulation you ran but adding more hack armory upgrades to the enemy
Let's not forget you can heroize Fanatics... then they also get a huge boost vs myth units too. As a Gaia main I love going for Oceanus and Rheia minor gods as one gives the 30% cheaper infantry heroing, and Rheia removes the favor cost of heroizing. Now imagine 30 hero fanatics running at you ...
@@CryShana It is expensive to promote units to heroes, even with a discount. Doing so I think would make them look bad from a cost perspective, but in the late game if trying to close out a match or are pop-capped, it is a nice option. Or if your opponent is going heavy into myth units.
one small note to add to the myrmidons is with blacksmith technologies. While full iron weapons and armour cancel eachother out, it doesn't for the myrmidon, so they actually get 10% per tech to an actually functional 30% damage increase.
Murmillo also wins hearts by looking so badass! And being able to heroise them isnt as important as arcus but still is a plus. Oranos is interesting that he can research two techs in early game and have 5.4 speed catapeltes.
I think it makes sense to compare units within their roles, but I also wouldve liked to hear a bit about the viability of the role as a whole. So for example, Huskarls are better than destroyers in countering archers, but is anti archer infantry (or anti cav infantry, you get the point) as a whole worth training
The axemen being cheaper means you can have more of them in the fight doing damage at the same time compared to hypapist. The axemen also has higher hack armor making the hp per cost effectivly even when fighting hack units. In effect they are like the same unit until egypt goes horus
Hi there, recently came across your channel and I think there's some great content here. Hope new players can come across your videos to get more invested! Coming from AoE2, there's three things about this game I'm unsure about that I would love to hear your insight on. Those three things being: 1) When do you decide to get upgrades (particularly military ones) and when do you decide to just create more units? 2) What kind of things are you thinking about when deciding when to age up? 3) When do you want to start building trade caravans (in both 1v1s and team games)? I would be sooo grateful if you can maybe cover these topics in a future video. Thanks for your hard work 🙏
Thanks for the video Magic :) I was waiting for it ! I definitively agree with the tierlist, I will just give some feedback/things I have in mind : Maybe you should have put the turma in cavalry for the same reason you put throwing axeman in infantry. Since it take bonus damage from anti-cav. I also think that talking about upgrades more frequently (not just for the jarl and berserk for example) could have been interesting, because it can change some things, i think most people don't care if the video was 10 min more due to upgrades/tech. I also think that (maybe) you should have taken in account that the norse infantry also have the ''benefit'' of being able to build close to the enemy so they are very agressive and mobile. Or at least mentionning it even if it doesn't change the tier ! That's still a bonus IMO even if it doesn't make them better in a direct fight it allow you generally speaking to have more of them in some agressive situations. Maybe you skipped a bit the ''ages'' in this one aswell, since for example hypaspist is way better than axeman but come a bit later on (except with Ares), maybe with the data numbers comparing the recruit time and actual flat damage/attack speed could be interesting if you do more updated tierlist in the future. Of course DPS per cost is very important, but since you give flat HP, it's interesting to show flat damage, in some scenarios it can be interesting to have the direct comparison of stats. (For example with micro managing : hit and run etc...) So my question is : what is next ? Heroes ? Myth unit ? Myth unit will be a LONG one, but since i've ''tried'' my own tierlist it will be a pleasure to have your opinion ! Maybe if you have time i would love to discuss it.
@@IamMagicAOM Indeed. I think upgrades can make something really better/worse and since it's a big part of the game yep ! But maybe instead of redoing everything you can do 1 tierlist with all units types instead of redoing each unit type by their type. For example X upgrade put X unit in S etc... I really want to see the myth tierlist tho !
@@IamMagicAOM While a look at things in a vacuum bears a value on its own, it does not really reflect on the "real deal". You hinted at it in the Cav video with the Jarl. Unupgraded that is a unit below average, but with Ringgiver and that Freya cav tech one can have a cav unit in heroic that scrapes at the bottom of the 300hp mark.
@@IamMagicAOM Curiously I would also like to see this, I'm already going over the tech tree and calculating the value of units post upgrade, currently looking at norse and Berserkers and Jarls
First of all, ty for all the content and effort you have been putting. I'm having a blast watching all these even tho i'm not playing the game (yet...) I read some comments about making another tierlist considering the armory upgrades and god bonuses wich is something i agree. However, imo it would be better to make this potential video oriented on "Wich Civ gets the most bonuses and takes more avantage of these?" rather than comparing flat stats (this video already does it so it would be sorta repetitive). Once again, ty for these videos.
for future videos, maybe have the background colour of each unit's name reflect the civ? so newbies like me can follow better which units you're talking about. Idk what a hypapist is without visual aid, but knowing which civ it's from would make it easier!
I love your technical analysis Magic. Maybe the myrmidon is a bit better against myths units than the fanatic (although human units are not recommended against myths)? I think the generic infantry (murmillo, hoplite and berserker) is pretty good in general, but it is true that the murmillo is very versatile. Greetings and thanks for the effort and content.
I do think you are underrating Huskarls a bit. 5 speed is kinda insane on an infantry unit that is not at all squishy. It kinda splits the difference between a cavalry unit and an infantry unit, and their low cost makes them really good at raiding, which is key for the Norse playstyle. Their unique ability to just build things can't be overlooked either, as that can lead to all sorts of cheese. They are one of the best units in Norse and pretty much define their game. I honestly can't imagine putting them anywhere other than S tier due to how they just define the entire faction.
It’s true, upgrades will change the course of the tier list, however if we start going through all the upgrades the video will be over an hour long, I need to find a more time efficient way to integrate them in for discussion purposes
@@IamMagicAOM Upgrades tier lists? :) Like: Infantry upgrades tier lists, economic upgrades tier lists etc. Obviously it will be minor gods specific upgrades because ther is no point in rating basic forge and mill upgrades.
Edit: This is wrong, see comments A trend I have been noticing in Eggy units is that in general they have below average health compensated by above average armor. This means they benefit more from armor upgrades than other civs, but also that divine damage is particularly effective vs Eggy.
How does that make them benefit more from armor? To my knowledge, armor stacks multiplicatively, not additively. So a 10% damage reduction is a 10% damage reduction, no matter what your armor was before you upgraded it (like if you had 50% armor and research an armor upgrade, it goes to 55%, not 60%).
@@RandomPerson-cc9mn Damage reduction is more effective the more you have. A unit with 80 hp and 20% armor has 80/1-(20/100)= 80/0.8 = 100 effective hitpoints, or 1.25x. With 30% armor it would have 80/0.7)= 114.3 effective hp, 1.428x. At 40% -> 133.3 hp, 1.666x. Note how as the armor increases linearly, effective hp increases much faster. Furthermore, if you start with more armor to begin with, a multiplicative increase is worth more armor. With 35% base armor a 10% increase leaves you with 38.5%. At 40% armor that same 10% increase leads to 44%. While in the first case the effective hp increased from 1.538x effective hp to 1.626x effective hp, in the second the increase is from 1.666x to 1.785x. The first had an increase of about 9% and the later an increase of about 12%, with the same upgrade, just because the base armor was higher. And this compounds on itself as armor upgrades pile up.
I cant see my previous comment now, but I must say after checking this in game I GOT THE MATH VERY WRONG. AoM works with with a vulnerability logic, instead of a resistance logic. While in game a unit may show it has 35% resistance, its more correct to say it has a 65% vulnerability, as in, it takes 65% damage. For most practical uses its the same to say one or the other as both lead to the same result in effective xp (with 65% vulnerability you have 1/0.65 = 1.538x effective health). However, when applying upgrades, it works VERY differently. In AoM upgrades affect vulnerability, not resistance. When it says "10% less vulnerability" it means vulnerability gets multiplied by 90% (0.9x). With the previous example, what is shown as a resistance of 35% translates to a vulnerability of 65%. With the upgrade, it becomes 0.9*0.65 = 0.585, which in turn translates to a resistance of 0.415 -> 41,5% (shown as 41% in game). This is very different from the theoretical 38.5% I was proposing earlier. Furthermore, note that the greater your base vulnerability (shown as lower resistance) the greater is the effect of the vulnerability reduction of the upgrade. A base vulnerability of 90% improves to 81% a 9% increase, while a base vulnerability of 60% improves to 54%, a 6% increase. This translates to a resistance increase from 10% to 19% in the first case, and from 40% to 46% in the second. In consequence, in the first case effective hp goes from 1.111x to 1.235x, a 12% increase, while in the second case it goes from 1.666x to 1.851x, a 18% increase. While armor (vulnerability) improvements are still more effective in better armored units, scaling better than linearly, they don't provide a quadratic benefit as I previously suggested, as the upgrades themselves have diminishing returns in the actual resistance values.
@@BVasquezp Your conclusion is wrong in the 4th paragraph. A 10% resistance upgrade always results in a 1/.9 or 1.11x resistance. If you have a vulnerability of .6, and improve to .54, then .6/.54 is, as I suggested, 1.11. And, following the same pattern, 1.851/1.666 is 1.11 (and so is 1.235/1.111). I assume you got that .12 and .18 both through accidentally using subtraction instead of division. 10% armor upgrade is an 11.11% ehp increase. Its always 11.11%. Its just X/.9, and X/.9 =1.11X, regardless of X's value.
Full Respect for you Magic! Youre not just blindly uploading AOM stuff, but you think about what is interesting for everyone and make your videos about that! Your channel doesnt just show the best build orders but is also the most intersting due to the fact that you show also stuff like this. But i still think it would be good if you started some new Build order videos :) The patch made some of them obsolet so that would be great. Thx for you work
Another great tier list with analysis! I normally just listen to other peoples' tier lists like a podcast, but you include so many juicy stats on screen, I enjoy watching the whole thing! 😄 Thanks for making these! I'm a Norse enjoyer, so I'm disappointed to see Berserks in B, though I can understand why. My experience with them is that they really need to get a lot of Unique Techs going before they can become S-Tier, especially Vidar's techs with Freyr. What about you; what did you have in mind when you said that you can see Berserks being S-tier in certain situations? It's a shame because Berserks are such fun units, but I feel like Norse infantry get countered so hard, so easily. 😭
Can you make a base building video? Like layouts for different pantheons and specifics for the building themselves and why should they be positioned where they are. I think this will be cool. As a fortifying player myself, building the base and defenses is one of the most satisfying aspects of the game for me.
It would be interesting to see a tier list where the unique improvements from minor gods were taken into account, as they can greatly enhance the utility or deadliness of a unit. Also it would be fun to compare throwing axemen to siege units (they do x4 against buildings after burning pitch is researched).
The only thing id add, is that cost needs to be considered when comparing any unit. Though stats on paper might favour one unit over another - the cost will then be higher, meaning that most units balance out when cost is incorporated. Hirdman costs 80 resources, katapeltes is 95 resources; it hirdman costed 95 resources then their stats would be increased which would equal a katapeltes.
Thank you, great content as usual. Tip: Since your tiermaker website is all black, you should do a dark (gray) color on your spreadsheets, otherwise the contrast between pitch black and pure white kills peoples eyes.
Love the video but there are two things you kinda missed: A) I would classify the spearman as a more generalist unit, it's like an extreme hoplite (better bonus and less hp). B) The berserkers are good but Norse can do things other civs can't, if you overboom with Loki or Freyr you can mass up 30+ of them in a second (Loki's transformation is free so your berserker only cost food, Freyr's is 15g each). Since these gods don't get Ragnarok, you can "homebrew" a mini rag with them and add in flaming weapons, it absolutely shreds through most armies. Especially if you already have a pop advantage and myth units 🙂
good points! i would consider the spearman as a generalist too but only because egypt doesn't get access to anything better, so it kind of has to fit that role, but with such low hp I think it doesn't really serve that role that well in the grander scheme of things
@IamMagicAOM true, are the same unique units with a bonus vs siege units applying in Retold? Like eggy spears used to have huge bonus damage vs siege, for other civs it was katapele, prodomos and raiding cav. Raiding cav was the only one that did the role properly because archers destroy the other 3 😅 spears are faster than berserker though so you'd still see them raiding, like a murmilo
In old game i used to send a distraction army head front on opponent and small group of Ulfsark in back of his base to build at least three longhouses then swarm enemy base with Ulfsarks. My favorite strategy, sure lot of them die but opponent cant kill as much as i can dish out. They are cheap and fast, generally good against most units.
Hey Magic I'm really digging your guides. They really help out a lot. Can I ask where you get the stats tables for all the units? I looked on the Internet but didnt find any. Thx in advance. Keep up the great work
Thanks for the video and thanks for all the videos, you have teach me so much, I constantly practice your build orders. I'm curious to know why you didn't cover the hersirs, because as far as I know they have the infantry tag.
I’d love to see a video of best god technologies. I feel like most people pick gods based on myth unit/ god power and don’t factor in their unique technologies. But as you say in this video sometimes unique techs can completely change a unit. Which ones are worth going for? Should you pick a minor god just for their tech?
Thank you for the analysis! I have a couple questions: 1) You said you can see Berserks being S-tier in some situations; what situations are those? 2) Because Norse relies on Infantry to build buildings and kill Myth units, do I want to still lean into them heavily even if my opponent has a lot of anti-infantry, but just mix in some counter units of my own (like Huskarls or Ballista) Or do I want to heavily shift into cavalry or something?
When they get all the unique upgrades and they’re running around causing mayhem into your opponents base, since they can not only attack they can also build so they have a lot of potential You’d want a mix, but if your opponent is going exclusively into counter infantry than I’d just take a pause on the infantry, counter his army and then start making them again afterwards
Great tierlist! I think Berserk changes a lot with tech. Contrary to other units who get equivalent buffs, Berserk has some weird but favourful ones. So it's probably better to test him with editors rather than only stats. I also wish the Hersir would be there since he is also inf and often used as a normal inf rather than for being a hero.
Should compare Hephaestus myrmidom vs fanatics at end as well was a big thing in legacy for me was accepting you usually always get that 20% damage increase for myrimidom if u gonna make them. Don't think there is a fanatic upgrade that compares.
I was waiting for this video. Good to see that my favourite unit the huskarl is in A. Magic, I like to go with Loki > Forseti > Bragi > Tyr. Tyr in particular makes the huskarl so much better, they become good against buildings, when combined with Loki bonus too, and flaming weapons and finbulwinter, I don't know if there is a way to stop that. In my games, every time I executed this raid I have always won (I tend to lose before I can execute this combo). I wanted to hear your opinion on this :)
I found Berserks to be particularly good at raiding. With towers being nerfed to obsolescence the low pierce armor isn't that problematic. They're fast, have good line of sight, rapid attack speed, and they're faster and easier to mass on top of being able to build. I can sneak a berserk behind the enemy base and build some longhouses to swarm them with even more berserks from multiple sides.
I think throwing axemen are criminally underrated here. They are the perfect complement of the S tier norse unit (that alone should put it above axemen) and if you have to make slingers or turma to counter them you're making a unit that insta dies to the rest of the norse roster. Also why were godi in the archer video but here there are no hersirs?
Regarding Throwing axemen. You mentioned they was not tagged as a ranged unit in the original which is true. But I know that for example slingers did crazy damage to throwing axemen in at least the extended edition so I guess it's not true after all.
I think you could add effective HP vs Pierce and Hack so it will be more clear to compare units surviablity. It can be calculated as EffectiveHP = HP / ( 1- armor)
Hey. Great video as always. Are you also planning to make guides or overviews of the differnt fractions. I know u are also fulltime but these videos are great. Greetings :)
A Discord server would be great. Especially if it foster some video ideas. If Discord takes up a lot of time on videos, I'd say YT videos with our comunity comments are much more useful. So it's a matter of time management and whether you can handle both at the same time.
Zeus main (noob 1100elo): Myrmidons are late game infantry. You should make test with all the armory upgrades to show why true damage is good. It is worth noticing that as a Zeus you go with Hera and you dont recruit myrmidons. You get them for "free" from the fortress after upgrade. Only zeus have myrmidions and as Zeus you should make myth units. When i play 1v1 i - go fast heroic/mythic, - appolo for temple heal, temple rush - destroy enemy army with hera mythic bolts godpower - i micro "free" myrmidons to kill heroes - spam fortresses to have safe place to heal and for free myrmidons as Hera - spam myth units, minotaurs, manticores, medusas and heal injured I would like you to try this fun strategy as Zeus.
If we're looking at these infantry fulfilling their role and also consider that you are not going to just be using these units solo, they are going to be in a mixed force most of the time, I think the Throwing Axeman should be rated higher, as if other units like Berserks/Hersirs/Hirdman/Huskarls are holding the line, they are only amplifying damage dealt to enemy infantry. Even if they are made easier to counter with archers since they are out in the open, breaking through the enemy line faster will leave the archers vulnerable to your infantry, not to mention any cavalry you would probably have to deal with them.
I do think divine damage is kinda pointless by the time you'll be spawning myrmidons. Most of the armies would be human units so naturally fanatics bonus is just insane compared to the myrmidons. The dps difference is also quite big as it is without even considering how much better bonuses fanatics have.
myrmidons and fanatics are strong units but requiring a palace/fortress and locked behind mythic age makes them very hard to mass, most of the time u wanna go murmillo or hoplite/hypaspist in late game infantry compositions
I think you are underrating the Throwing Axemen a bit. The spreadsheet doesn't lie, but there's a bit more to it than that. They cost wood instead of food, so in the early/mid game because wood gathers faster and is much more available, throwing axemen feel a lot cheaper than they are - which compounds the strength advantage being ranged has. The range also allows for some really nasty micro to easily pick off a few more troublesome melee units and they can kite slightly (they are short ranged and normal speed, but they still can get the job done) and massively weaken an enemy infantry horde before it arrives. Lategame, they definitely fall off as anything but a counter-infantry unit, and maybe I'd trust Axemen over them for stopping a Ragnarok, sure, but in Classical/early Heroic age, I think they have a strong power spike that makes them one of the best infantry to mass during that specific period.
Great points! The issue I find with the throwing axemen is that they get double tagged, so they get shredded by both cav and archers, it’s a great unit but it’s very vulnerable
Also, front lines often contain a mix of infantry and OP myth units. When axemen/hypastists get tossed by minotaur or other myth units, they can't do their job. Throwing axemen are safer from the chaotic front line, so they're always doing their job.
I think it would pre pretty useful to have different timestamps. Like "Hoplite" etc. So people can just find the unit they wanna hear about in case they don't have time for the whole video or wanna rewatch something. But great content anyhow.
As a sc2 player just starting AoM, hearing you reading out the berserkers stats, why does it remind me of the zergling? Probably not as useful as a meat shield but could be helpful for surprise villager harassment on expos. Could also be useful for scouting if you arnt using Odin.
@IamMagic loving the AOM Retold content!! Extremely useful! You mentioned setting up a Discord server for your following, this would be super helpful! Any advise on finding a clan to play with? I was in a clan called Storm Reapers (StR) 20 years ago, but none of the guys are playing anymore. Would be great to find some practice partners.
I’m not too familiar with the clan scene atm, I think there’s a multiplayer update coming today, I hope they spruce up the clan page so we can find different clans to join and be apart of
I’d rate destroyer a step higher myself. Having a (relatively) speedy boi for siege is so nice. Plus he gets a pretty insane multiplier as a hero. I’m totally biased though I just really enjoy Atlanteans. Everything feels good to make. Whereas with Egypt I’m always wanting to skimp on barracks units because they’re all so meh. I also hate EACH one has its own upgrades. But I love the chariots and camels to make up for it. 🤷♂️
If no one brought this up but what was up with the jump cut at 20:18? Also love looove the community helping each other out! After I play some matches I’d love to (when you have time) for you to give me some honest critiques. Again I know you’re busy so I would just send you the games to watch or record when you have time! Infantry and myth units are my favorites in AOM! Ever since I was a kid.
I was blabbering a lot so I cut some stuff out haha, definitely would watch some of your games, it’s best to send it to me when I’m streaming so we can all learn from it together
@@IamMagicAOM sounds great. I’m brewing up a Freyr Strat that I plan to use in matches. Cause I feel like there are more Ways than just the standard way of playing him that can make him extremely intimidating! Also working on an Oranos Strat and Gaia too. Sadly my only days to truly play is Monday and Tuesday. Also in regards to the jump cut. To make it more smooth or add some flair you can have a text box pop up for one second saying “epic gamer cut” as it suddenly cuts.
I understand all the reasoning but i think theres so many bonuses and technologies which completely transform some of these units. I guess taking all that into account would add too much complexity and make the video too long. Would love to see some kind of video like this but for the different unique technologies from the minor gods.
Feels bad to be a norse main. I feel like the Throwing Axemen under performs, and the norse units are too squishy to actually hold up in a fight - leading to very one sided fights where you either have your army wiped, or you clean house. @Magic, what do you suggest for Nose to make as a meatshield? Hersier wasn't in this list but I feel like at times they are the best choice for HP per cost
I really like using Jarls with ring giver but I find that with Norse you really need to mix in the heroic age myth units, they have the tankiest myth units in age 3
I think the Destroyer and the elephant should be compared to siege weapons or some weird "tank unit" class (with some mythic units), not infantry and cavalry respectively.
Norse have many type infantry for counters , as general good unit you can make hersirs , little expensive but good……greek units are only 2 and expensive thats why they are somewhat strong, atlantean inf also are very good . Egyptian inf are also somewhat cheap and counter units….but all infantry and gods have some good tech upgrades from gods 🎉🎉
Have to disagree with throwing axemen being worse than the other two anti infantry counters. In small numbers, the TA is worse but as the numbers increase, the deathball becomes a lot stronger. Similar to crossbows in AoE2, a big enough blob of TA will shread any melee opponents. 100 TA will beat 100 axemen or hypapist, especially in a choke point.
Oh and btw discord server is excellent way to do it! I’ve ran servers and made servers in the past. So if you need any help I got you. They are really fun and cool to set up. And a great way for everyone to get involved with not just you but others.
I feel norse got more unique buffs for their infantry than the other factions, which means their base stats might be lower. Nothing is stopping the fully upgraded Thor berserker with berserkergang or Odin berserker with frenzy and berserkergang
The problem I have with norse infantry is that Hersirs are the better option 90% of the time. They are tankier, they are heroes, you don't need the infantry upgrades for them, you can make them from multiple buildings, they generate more favor and you get them from first age.
seeing all the stats is SO informative. But its weird, early on I heard people love spamming throwing axemen, and I have SO much success with just teching up to age II and then just spam the early hero unit and throwing axemen and I just run over every enemy army I play against.
but in late game (with armoury upgrades), the divine damage of the myrmidons is better than that of the fanatics, right? i mean they are age 4 infantry so... but also fanatics can be upgraded as heroes... anyway,berserkers go brrr (with Vidar tecs: around 20dps + lifesteal)
I have to disagree with not choosing the Throwing Axeman vs Ragnarok...they can dance around that huge mass and slowly poke them down...while Hypaspist would have to engage fully into overwhelming numbers
with good micro they can be good, the issue is with rag that since your opponent is going to have an overwhelming number of units ontop of you, you'll likely get surrounded
Great video! Based on the tier list videos you have released. How is it that the atlanteans have such a bad win rate if they have several great units. Keep up the good work!
They have a slightly weaker economy I believe, their citizens are suppose to equate to 2 vills of other civs but based on testing done by a friend of mine they’re approximately equivalent to 1.5
As an egyptian player, what is infantry? Never heard of them.
😅
@Darth.Augustus Midgol, i like Midgol units.
I think it’s that thing Horus gets
My friend plays Egyptian. He calls their infantry meat shields.
@@Neonmnan your friend is a man of culture.
Hey man just wanted to say thanks for putting out the best AoM retold content on RUclips ! Always looking forward to your videos
Norse: *is the infantry Civ
Also Norse: *has half of their infantry options in C tier
Norse are the infantry RUSH/Raid Civ.
Upgrades bro !!!!
They can build though and generate favor. You get favor for free as opposed to say greek, eggy or atty to some extent, meaning they cost less as they generate part of their cost back. If you take that into account, they will probably jump a tier
axemen in C tier is kinda misleading. As a backline, they often have something meatshielding for them, and the bigger you make both armies, the more dangerous their ranged capabilities compared to melee infantry become. That, and burnign pitch turn them into maybe THE best building destroyer of the game with how spammable and mobile they are compared to siege engines, while still being very valuable against troops.
They may not win 1v1s, but as a staple of a norse army, they are deadly especially as cavalry dies to them faster than to most other ranged troops thanks to the hack damage
@@thorveim1174 totally agree, but I think this tier list refers to them as mainline infantry, as he also made a tier list for ranged units and the throwing axeman were included. I don’t remember their ranking however
I've never clicked on a video so fast in my life. Love you
I like these deep dives into the unit stats. I think it would be helpful also considering unique techs or passive bonuses, particularly ones available at the point when you would start using the unit. For example the Oceanus/Athena techs for infantry and if it changes any of the conclusions. If one in particular has much better unique techs, that could change the tier list standings.
I know that is not always super helpful to look beyond base stats as minor gods are more often picked for god powers, myth units, or other reasons.
I want to watch this video
This would be very important, but is more a matter of Build Order and matchup META strategy and no more a unit analysis. There are just to many variable to keep track of if you gonna consider every unit in every upgrade state possible.
Would be awesome in strategy guides tho.
For instance, how this would play out with Hera's mirmidons comming out for free? How would you account for efficiency?
@@Lpacheko You have the best point to demonstrate that generalozations don't sufice.
This is really compelling to watch.
One argument I have is that I don't feel you factor the Norse Infantry capacity to build appropriately - sure the Hirdman is a little frailer than a Katapeltes and the Throwing Axeman doesn't have the Bonus Damage of a Hypaspist but Norse Infantry will always be difficult to fight thanks to its capacity to push forward so well.
Imagine if the Egyptian Spearman were able to build forward bases or steal TC's - that would probably bump up your opinion of it significantly.
Dont forget that they act as Vills to because they gather Favor.
Yes and their cost and hp is cheap because you need a lot of inf to gain favor. You send wave after wave. Buff them with Einjar and demolish every army
@@sharifkabir-d8e i dont think its fair to see it this way: they only generate favor by fighting, where they are liable to get killed. In that case its more appropriate to say that norse troops convert a portion of their cost into favor, that portion being much more favorable if you take little losses. Norse heroes however do count as villagers in that regard since they generate passive favor (and that plus their protection against myth abilities and higher health per troop means that as Thor, hersirs tend to form my frontline until the later game, berserks just lose all hope of being a frontline the moment splash damage appears as they are so frail that they will inevitably take massive losses)
Destroyer can go above 90% Pierce armor with some specific minor god techs (Leto + Atlas)
+5% from relic? :D Or is there a hard cap?
Finding your channel is like finding a dwarven mine at wonder age while you are not even playing Thor. I appreciate the content you upload.
Your improvement curve is crazy good to me in these videos. Everything (to me) is better than the first time I watched: Audio, cohesion, entertainment, ideas, information. Everything improved, I'm glad I started following due to your reply, I'm glad Viper has you in such a high regard and credits you (because you earnt it as a AoM player and now content creator) and I'm happy to see your videos getting so many visits. Please keep improving, I want a like Viper, like Hera, like Spirit of the law but their own man for AoM and I think you will be it.
thanks mate!
I think the main draw of the Mymidon that isn't mentioned here is that they soft counter myth units.
And with myth units being so good, I think they are S tier for that.
If you had to throw infantry into the grinder against a Titan, the Myrmidon is the one that's gonna do best.
Hero fanatic IMO, titan not only does less damage but would take more damage...
also, Myrmidos can do well against buildings too.
Myrms need some small buff in their attack speed 🎉🎉
Yayyy i hope your channel, grows and grows. Youre an AoM legend, and it would be so nice to see this beloved game grow with the support of creators like yourself, Boit etc.
Been waiting for this video since the first tier list, thanks a lot
Hi! Thank You for the video 🤗😊
More HP means a longer time spent alive dealing damage! I think that's why the fanatics did better than the myrmidons even though divine damage ignores all resistance: they died slower and got to do more attacks in the meantime
Good point!
Great job again man! Tier list is perfect, hard to argue against the numbers! My only consideration is about the myrmidon x fanatic tier, IMO, considering both are available only late game, I would prefer a unit dealing divine damage cause at that stage the opponent is probably gonna have at least decent armory upgrades making Fanatics DPS lower. Maybe would be a cool experiment run the same simulation you ran but adding more hack armory upgrades to the enemy
So this is why I've been seeing so many Murmillos in Atlantean matches! 🧐☺
They don’t have many options until age 3 to be fair 😂
They're pretty decent though. Tanky and fast enough to hit archers, heroized can shred myth units and with caladria support they're pretty great.
Is possible to beat the Titan AI using only murmilos and caladrias. Even up to the mytic Age.
Let's not forget you can heroize Fanatics... then they also get a huge boost vs myth units too. As a Gaia main I love going for Oceanus and Rheia minor gods as one gives the 30% cheaper infantry heroing, and Rheia removes the favor cost of heroizing.
Now imagine 30 hero fanatics running at you ...
@@CryShana It is expensive to promote units to heroes, even with a discount. Doing so I think would make them look bad from a cost perspective, but in the late game if trying to close out a match or are pop-capped, it is a nice option. Or if your opponent is going heavy into myth units.
@@jonsummers3453 Yeah true, but it's fun as hell tho
Wait Oceanus makes it 30% cheaper to heroize units?
@@dirkauditore8413 only infantry, as a unique tech, not all types of units.
As an Atlantean main i love when i can add 10 - 15 fanatics to my army. It makes a big difference
Dude, Fly like Django was a real bro. The editing upgrade is great!
one small note to add to the myrmidons is with blacksmith technologies. While full iron weapons and armour cancel eachother out, it doesn't for the myrmidon, so they actually get 10% per tech to an actually functional 30% damage increase.
I’ve been waiting for this one! Keep up the good work!
Murmillo also wins hearts by looking so badass! And being able to heroise them isnt as important as arcus but still is a plus.
Oranos is interesting that he can research two techs in early game and have 5.4 speed catapeltes.
I think it makes sense to compare units within their roles, but I also wouldve liked to hear a bit about the viability of the role as a whole. So for example, Huskarls are better than destroyers in countering archers, but is anti archer infantry (or anti cav infantry, you get the point) as a whole worth training
The axemen being cheaper means you can have more of them in the fight doing damage at the same time compared to hypapist. The axemen also has higher hack armor making the hp per cost effectivly even when fighting hack units. In effect they are like the same unit until egypt goes horus
Hi there, recently came across your channel and I think there's some great content here. Hope new players can come across your videos to get more invested!
Coming from AoE2, there's three things about this game I'm unsure about that I would love to hear your insight on.
Those three things being:
1) When do you decide to get upgrades (particularly military ones) and when do you decide to just create more units?
2) What kind of things are you thinking about when deciding when to age up?
3) When do you want to start building trade caravans (in both 1v1s and team games)?
I would be sooo grateful if you can maybe cover these topics in a future video. Thanks for your hard work
🙏
Definitely will! Thanks
Thanks for the video Magic :) I was waiting for it !
I definitively agree with the tierlist, I will just give some feedback/things I have in mind : Maybe you should have put the turma in cavalry for the same reason you put throwing axeman in infantry. Since it take bonus damage from anti-cav. I also think that talking about upgrades more frequently (not just for the jarl and berserk for example) could have been interesting, because it can change some things, i think most people don't care if the video was 10 min more due to upgrades/tech. I also think that (maybe) you should have taken in account that the norse infantry also have the ''benefit'' of being able to build close to the enemy so they are very agressive and mobile. Or at least mentionning it even if it doesn't change the tier ! That's still a bonus IMO even if it doesn't make them better in a direct fight it allow you generally speaking to have more of them in some agressive situations.
Maybe you skipped a bit the ''ages'' in this one aswell, since for example hypaspist is way better than axeman but come a bit later on (except with Ares), maybe with the data numbers comparing the recruit time and actual flat damage/attack speed could be interesting if you do more updated tierlist in the future. Of course DPS per cost is very important, but since you give flat HP, it's interesting to show flat damage, in some scenarios it can be interesting to have the direct comparison of stats. (For example with micro managing : hit and run etc...)
So my question is : what is next ? Heroes ? Myth unit ? Myth unit will be a LONG one, but since i've ''tried'' my own tierlist it will be a pleasure to have your opinion ! Maybe if you have time i would love to discuss it.
Looks like people really want to see the same tier list with unique upgrades, maybe I should do that
@@IamMagicAOM Indeed. I think upgrades can make something really better/worse and since it's a big part of the game yep ! But maybe instead of redoing everything you can do 1 tierlist with all units types instead of redoing each unit type by their type. For example X upgrade put X unit in S etc...
I really want to see the myth tierlist tho !
@@IamMagicAOM While a look at things in a vacuum bears a value on its own, it does not really reflect on the "real deal". You hinted at it in the Cav video with the Jarl. Unupgraded that is a unit below average, but with Ringgiver and that Freya cav tech one can have a cav unit in heroic that scrapes at the bottom of the 300hp mark.
@@IamMagicAOM I would love to see that!
@@IamMagicAOM Curiously I would also like to see this, I'm already going over the tech tree and calculating the value of units post upgrade, currently looking at norse and Berserkers and Jarls
First of all, ty for all the content and effort you have been putting. I'm having a blast watching all these even tho i'm not playing the game (yet...)
I read some comments about making another tierlist considering the armory upgrades and god bonuses wich is something i agree. However, imo it would be better to make this potential video oriented on "Wich Civ gets the most bonuses and takes more avantage of these?" rather than comparing flat stats (this video already does it so it would be sorta repetitive).
Once again, ty for these videos.
gotcha, thanks man!
for future videos, maybe have the background colour of each unit's name reflect the civ? so newbies like me can follow better which units you're talking about. Idk what a hypapist is without visual aid, but knowing which civ it's from would make it easier!
insanely helpful vid my goat
also the community server would be real nice
I love your technical analysis Magic.
Maybe the myrmidon is a bit better against myths units than the fanatic (although human units are not recommended against myths)?
I think the generic infantry (murmillo, hoplite and berserker) is pretty good in general, but it is true that the murmillo is very versatile.
Greetings and thanks for the effort and content.
I do think you are underrating Huskarls a bit. 5 speed is kinda insane on an infantry unit that is not at all squishy. It kinda splits the difference between a cavalry unit and an infantry unit, and their low cost makes them really good at raiding, which is key for the Norse playstyle. Their unique ability to just build things can't be overlooked either, as that can lead to all sorts of cheese. They are one of the best units in Norse and pretty much define their game. I honestly can't imagine putting them anywhere other than S tier due to how they just define the entire faction.
as always, thanks for everything u do
I just cant understand how relevant such kind of tier lists are when we exclude upgrades
It’s true, upgrades will change the course of the tier list, however if we start going through all the upgrades the video will be over an hour long, I need to find a more time efficient way to integrate them in for discussion purposes
@@IamMagicAOM Upgrades tier lists? :) Like: Infantry upgrades tier lists, economic upgrades tier lists etc. Obviously it will be minor gods specific upgrades because ther is no point in rating basic forge and mill upgrades.
Edit: This is wrong, see comments
A trend I have been noticing in Eggy units is that in general they have below average health compensated by above average armor. This means they benefit more from armor upgrades than other civs, but also that divine damage is particularly effective vs Eggy.
How does that make them benefit more from armor? To my knowledge, armor stacks multiplicatively, not additively. So a 10% damage reduction is a 10% damage reduction, no matter what your armor was before you upgraded it (like if you had 50% armor and research an armor upgrade, it goes to 55%, not 60%).
@@RandomPerson-cc9mn Damage reduction is more effective the more you have.
A unit with 80 hp and 20% armor has 80/1-(20/100)= 80/0.8 = 100 effective hitpoints, or 1.25x. With 30% armor it would have 80/0.7)= 114.3 effective hp, 1.428x. At 40% -> 133.3 hp, 1.666x. Note how as the armor increases linearly, effective hp increases much faster.
Furthermore, if you start with more armor to begin with, a multiplicative increase is worth more armor. With 35% base armor a 10% increase leaves you with 38.5%. At 40% armor that same 10% increase leads to 44%. While in the first case the effective hp increased from 1.538x effective hp to 1.626x effective hp, in the second the increase is from 1.666x to 1.785x. The first had an increase of about 9% and the later an increase of about 12%, with the same upgrade, just because the base armor was higher. And this compounds on itself as armor upgrades pile up.
thank you!
I cant see my previous comment now, but I must say after checking this in game I GOT THE MATH VERY WRONG.
AoM works with with a vulnerability logic, instead of a resistance logic. While in game a unit may show it has 35% resistance, its more correct to say it has a 65% vulnerability, as in, it takes 65% damage. For most practical uses its the same to say one or the other as both lead to the same result in effective xp (with 65% vulnerability you have 1/0.65 = 1.538x effective health). However, when applying upgrades, it works VERY differently.
In AoM upgrades affect vulnerability, not resistance. When it says "10% less vulnerability" it means vulnerability gets multiplied by 90% (0.9x). With the previous example, what is shown as a resistance of 35% translates to a vulnerability of 65%. With the upgrade, it becomes 0.9*0.65 = 0.585, which in turn translates to a resistance of 0.415 -> 41,5% (shown as 41% in game). This is very different from the theoretical 38.5% I was proposing earlier.
Furthermore, note that the greater your base vulnerability (shown as lower resistance) the greater is the effect of the vulnerability reduction of the upgrade. A base vulnerability of 90% improves to 81% a 9% increase, while a base vulnerability of 60% improves to 54%, a 6% increase. This translates to a resistance increase from 10% to 19% in the first case, and from 40% to 46% in the second. In consequence, in the first case effective hp goes from 1.111x to 1.235x, a 12% increase, while in the second case it goes from 1.666x to 1.851x, a 18% increase.
While armor (vulnerability) improvements are still more effective in better armored units, scaling better than linearly, they don't provide a quadratic benefit as I previously suggested, as the upgrades themselves have diminishing returns in the actual resistance values.
@@BVasquezp Your conclusion is wrong in the 4th paragraph. A 10% resistance upgrade always results in a 1/.9 or 1.11x resistance. If you have a vulnerability of .6, and improve to .54, then .6/.54 is, as I suggested, 1.11.
And, following the same pattern, 1.851/1.666 is 1.11 (and so is 1.235/1.111). I assume you got that .12 and .18 both through accidentally using subtraction instead of division.
10% armor upgrade is an 11.11% ehp increase. Its always 11.11%. Its just X/.9, and X/.9 =1.11X, regardless of X's value.
Very interesting and very useful! Also love the new intro.
Full Respect for you Magic! Youre not just blindly uploading AOM stuff, but you think about what is interesting for everyone and make your videos about that! Your channel doesnt just show the best build orders but is also the most intersting due to the fact that you show also stuff like this. But i still think it would be good if you started some new Build order videos :) The patch made some of them obsolet so that would be great. Thx for you work
Love your Tier List and guide content
Keep it up
Another great tier list with analysis! I normally just listen to other peoples' tier lists like a podcast, but you include so many juicy stats on screen, I enjoy watching the whole thing! 😄 Thanks for making these!
I'm a Norse enjoyer, so I'm disappointed to see Berserks in B, though I can understand why. My experience with them is that they really need to get a lot of Unique Techs going before they can become S-Tier, especially Vidar's techs with Freyr. What about you; what did you have in mind when you said that you can see Berserks being S-tier in certain situations?
It's a shame because Berserks are such fun units, but I feel like Norse infantry get countered so hard, so easily. 😭
also the upgrade option should have been considered (turning villagers into army even without ragnarök), not utilized often but the option exists
Now myth unit tier list ❤
Can you make a base building video? Like layouts for different pantheons and specifics for the building themselves and why should they be positioned where they are. I think this will be cool.
As a fortifying player myself, building the base and defenses is one of the most satisfying aspects of the game for me.
Definitely, I’ll do a video for that in the coming future
@@IamMagicAOM Awesome! Thank you!
It would be interesting to see a tier list where the unique improvements from minor gods were taken into account, as they can greatly enhance the utility or deadliness of a unit. Also it would be fun to compare throwing axemen to siege units (they do x4 against buildings after burning pitch is researched).
Would love to know in depth how certain unique techs can affect the list. Or the age availability. But this spreadsheet format is so great.
Thanks for the shoutout :) Magic Nr.1 lets go
The only thing id add, is that cost needs to be considered when comparing any unit. Though stats on paper might favour one unit over another - the cost will then be higher, meaning that most units balance out when cost is incorporated. Hirdman costs 80 resources, katapeltes is 95 resources; it hirdman costed 95 resources then their stats would be increased which would equal a katapeltes.
rock solid content ! im waiting the tierlist for mythic unit now !!
Great series Magic!
I believe it is very important for you to analyze the units with god specific upgrades tho.
That's the plan in the future, if I did it here the video would be almost 2 hours long :p
would be nice to see a video comparing infantry with said upgrades, cuz berserk with all the minor gods upgrades and he has a lot, becomes a beast
Thank you, great content as usual.
Tip: Since your tiermaker website is all black, you should do a dark (gray) color on your spreadsheets, otherwise the contrast between pitch black and pure white kills peoples eyes.
Good point
Norse units under rated af
Thanks for the video, super helpful content. Keep it up
Love the video but there are two things you kinda missed:
A) I would classify the spearman as a more generalist unit, it's like an extreme hoplite (better bonus and less hp).
B) The berserkers are good but Norse can do things other civs can't, if you overboom with Loki or Freyr you can mass up 30+ of them in a second (Loki's transformation is free so your berserker only cost food, Freyr's is 15g each). Since these gods don't get Ragnarok, you can "homebrew" a mini rag with them and add in flaming weapons, it absolutely shreds through most armies. Especially if you already have a pop advantage and myth units 🙂
good points! i would consider the spearman as a generalist too but only because egypt doesn't get access to anything better, so it kind of has to fit that role, but with such low hp I think it doesn't really serve that role that well in the grander scheme of things
@IamMagicAOM true, are the same unique units with a bonus vs siege units applying in Retold?
Like eggy spears used to have huge bonus damage vs siege, for other civs it was katapele, prodomos and raiding cav. Raiding cav was the only one that did the role properly because archers destroy the other 3 😅 spears are faster than berserker though so you'd still see them raiding, like a murmilo
@@IamMagicAOM looks like my berserker trick is being nerfed heavily across all civs 😭😭
In old game i used to send a distraction army head front on opponent and small group of Ulfsark in back of his base to build at least three longhouses then swarm enemy base with Ulfsarks. My favorite strategy, sure lot of them die but opponent cant kill as much as i can dish out. They are cheap and fast, generally good against most units.
Hey Magic I'm really digging your guides. They really help out a lot. Can I ask where you get the stats tables for all the units? I looked on the Internet but didnt find any. Thx in advance. Keep up the great work
Hey I made it myself, I’m going to be sharing it once I finish adding all the details
Best list I ever saw ! :) keep it up
Thanks for the video and thanks for all the videos, you have teach me so much, I constantly practice your build orders. I'm curious to know why you didn't cover the hersirs, because as far as I know they have the infantry tag.
I decided to do heroes in a different video
I’d love to see a video of best god technologies. I feel like most people pick gods based on myth unit/ god power and don’t factor in their unique technologies. But as you say in this video sometimes unique techs can completely change a unit. Which ones are worth going for? Should you pick a minor god just for their tech?
Thank you for the analysis! I have a couple questions:
1) You said you can see Berserks being S-tier in some situations; what situations are those?
2) Because Norse relies on Infantry to build buildings and kill Myth units, do I want to still lean into them heavily even if my opponent has a lot of anti-infantry, but just mix in some counter units of my own (like Huskarls or Ballista) Or do I want to heavily shift into cavalry or something?
When they get all the unique upgrades and they’re running around causing mayhem into your opponents base, since they can not only attack they can also build so they have a lot of potential
You’d want a mix, but if your opponent is going exclusively into counter infantry than I’d just take a pause on the infantry, counter his army and then start making them again afterwards
Thanks for the tips!
Great tierlist! I think Berserk changes a lot with tech. Contrary to other units who get equivalent buffs, Berserk has some weird but favourful ones. So it's probably better to test him with editors rather than only stats. I also wish the Hersir would be there since he is also inf and often used as a normal inf rather than for being a hero.
I know its alot but upgrades have impact on performance. I wonder what the differences are between base and BASED!
El señor IamMagic con otra clase magistral
Should compare Hephaestus myrmidom vs fanatics at end as well was a big thing in legacy for me was accepting you usually always get that 20% damage increase for myrimidom if u gonna make them. Don't think there is a fanatic upgrade that compares.
I was waiting for this video. Good to see that my favourite unit the huskarl is in A.
Magic, I like to go with Loki > Forseti > Bragi > Tyr.
Tyr in particular makes the huskarl so much better, they become good against buildings, when combined with Loki bonus too, and flaming weapons and finbulwinter, I don't know if there is a way to stop that. In my games, every time I executed this raid I have always won (I tend to lose before I can execute this combo).
I wanted to hear your opinion on this :)
Absolutely agree, really strong combo !
I like the new banner/icon but MS might not like it for copyright issues. Wonder if it might impact the views or smth
I found Berserks to be particularly good at raiding. With towers being nerfed to obsolescence the low pierce armor isn't that problematic. They're fast, have good line of sight, rapid attack speed, and they're faster and easier to mass on top of being able to build. I can sneak a berserk behind the enemy base and build some longhouses to swarm them with even more berserks from multiple sides.
I think throwing axemen are criminally underrated here. They are the perfect complement of the S tier norse unit (that alone should put it above axemen) and if you have to make slingers or turma to counter them you're making a unit that insta dies to the rest of the norse roster.
Also why were godi in the archer video but here there are no hersirs?
I decided to not include heroes going forward for regular units, I’ll do them in a different list
Regarding Throwing axemen. You mentioned they was not tagged as a ranged unit in the original which is true. But I know that for example slingers did crazy damage to throwing axemen in at least the extended edition so I guess it's not true after all.
Thank you for that.
If you put up Myrmidon vs Hoplite, what would you say is better?
fully upgraded? i'd take myrmidon, but they're harder to mass so it's nice to have some hoplites to buffer the ranks
I think you could add effective HP vs Pierce and Hack so it will be more clear to compare units surviablity. It can be calculated as EffectiveHP = HP / ( 1- armor)
Hey. Great video as always. Are you also planning to make guides or overviews of the differnt fractions.
I know u are also fulltime but these videos are great.
Greetings :)
That's the plan!
Good plan ❤@@IamMagicAOM
A Discord server would be great. Especially if it foster some video ideas. If Discord takes up a lot of time on videos, I'd say YT videos with our comunity comments are much more useful. So it's a matter of time management and whether you can handle both at the same time.
Zeus main (noob 1100elo):
Myrmidons are late game infantry. You should make test with all the armory upgrades to show why true damage is good. It is worth noticing that as a Zeus you go with Hera and you dont recruit myrmidons. You get them for "free" from the fortress after upgrade. Only zeus have myrmidions and as Zeus you should make myth units.
When i play 1v1 i
- go fast heroic/mythic,
- appolo for temple heal, temple rush
- destroy enemy army with hera mythic bolts godpower
- i micro "free" myrmidons to kill heroes
- spam fortresses to have safe place to heal and for free myrmidons as Hera
- spam myth units, minotaurs, manticores, medusas and heal injured
I would like you to try this fun strategy as Zeus.
If we're looking at these infantry fulfilling their role and also consider that you are not going to just be using these units solo, they are going to be in a mixed force most of the time, I think the Throwing Axeman should be rated higher, as if other units like Berserks/Hersirs/Hirdman/Huskarls are holding the line, they are only amplifying damage dealt to enemy infantry. Even if they are made easier to counter with archers since they are out in the open, breaking through the enemy line faster will leave the archers vulnerable to your infantry, not to mention any cavalry you would probably have to deal with them.
I do think divine damage is kinda pointless by the time you'll be spawning myrmidons. Most of the armies would be human units so naturally fanatics bonus is just insane compared to the myrmidons. The dps difference is also quite big as it is without even considering how much better bonuses fanatics have.
myrmidons and fanatics are strong units but requiring a palace/fortress and locked behind mythic age makes them very hard to mass, most of the time u wanna go murmillo or hoplite/hypaspist in late game infantry compositions
I think you are underrating the Throwing Axemen a bit. The spreadsheet doesn't lie, but there's a bit more to it than that. They cost wood instead of food, so in the early/mid game because wood gathers faster and is much more available, throwing axemen feel a lot cheaper than they are - which compounds the strength advantage being ranged has. The range also allows for some really nasty micro to easily pick off a few more troublesome melee units and they can kite slightly (they are short ranged and normal speed, but they still can get the job done) and massively weaken an enemy infantry horde before it arrives.
Lategame, they definitely fall off as anything but a counter-infantry unit, and maybe I'd trust Axemen over them for stopping a Ragnarok, sure, but in Classical/early Heroic age, I think they have a strong power spike that makes them one of the best infantry to mass during that specific period.
Great points! The issue I find with the throwing axemen is that they get double tagged, so they get shredded by both cav and archers, it’s a great unit but it’s very vulnerable
Also, front lines often contain a mix of infantry and OP myth units. When axemen/hypastists get tossed by minotaur or other myth units, they can't do their job. Throwing axemen are safer from the chaotic front line, so they're always doing their job.
Fanatics also get two really good bonuses through Oceanus and Atlas making them even nastier.
You can max out your villager pop, then convert them to berserks after you hit your pop cap, leading to a nasty swarm.
I think it would pre pretty useful to have different timestamps. Like "Hoplite" etc. So people can just find the unit they wanna hear about in case they don't have time for the whole video or wanna rewatch something.
But great content anyhow.
As a sc2 player just starting AoM, hearing you reading out the berserkers stats, why does it remind me of the zergling? Probably not as useful as a meat shield but could be helpful for surprise villager harassment on expos. Could also be useful for scouting if you arnt using Odin.
Can you share the spreadsheet for us to have a cheatsheet with the stats and knowledge please?
Sure when it’s finished !
Nice video !! Love your content
@IamMagic loving the AOM Retold content!! Extremely useful! You mentioned setting up a Discord server for your following, this would be super helpful!
Any advise on finding a clan to play with? I was in a clan called Storm Reapers (StR) 20 years ago, but none of the guys are playing anymore. Would be great to find some practice partners.
I’m not too familiar with the clan scene atm, I think there’s a multiplayer update coming today, I hope they spruce up the clan page so we can find different clans to join and be apart of
Great content. Makes me wanna play
I’d rate destroyer a step higher myself. Having a (relatively) speedy boi for siege is so nice. Plus he gets a pretty insane multiplier as a hero. I’m totally biased though I just really enjoy Atlanteans. Everything feels good to make. Whereas with Egypt I’m always wanting to skimp on barracks units because they’re all so meh. I also hate EACH one has its own upgrades. But I love the chariots and camels to make up for it. 🤷♂️
If no one brought this up but what was up with the jump cut at 20:18? Also love looove the community helping each other out! After I play some matches I’d love to (when you have time) for you to give me some honest critiques. Again I know you’re busy so I would just send you the games to watch or record when you have time! Infantry and myth units are my favorites in AOM! Ever since I was a kid.
I was blabbering a lot so I cut some stuff out haha, definitely would watch some of your games, it’s best to send it to me when I’m streaming so we can all learn from it together
@@IamMagicAOM sounds great. I’m brewing up a Freyr Strat that I plan to use in matches. Cause I feel like there are more
Ways than just the standard way of playing him that can make him extremely intimidating! Also working on an Oranos Strat and Gaia too. Sadly my only days to truly play is Monday and Tuesday.
Also in regards to the jump cut. To make it more smooth or add some flair you can have a text box pop up for one second saying “epic gamer cut” as it suddenly cuts.
I understand all the reasoning but i think theres so many bonuses and technologies which completely transform some of these units. I guess taking all that into account would add too much complexity and make the video too long. Would love to see some kind of video like this but for the different unique technologies from the minor gods.
definitely, I have plans for it in the future!
Feels bad to be a norse main. I feel like the Throwing Axemen under performs, and the norse units are too squishy to actually hold up in a fight - leading to very one sided fights where you either have your army wiped, or you clean house.
@Magic, what do you suggest for Nose to make as a meatshield? Hersier wasn't in this list but I feel like at times they are the best choice for HP per cost
I really like using Jarls with ring giver but I find that with Norse you really need to mix in the heroic age myth units, they have the tankiest myth units in age 3
lol video quality keeps going up and up good work
I think the Destroyer and the elephant should be compared to siege weapons or some weird "tank unit" class (with some mythic units), not infantry and cavalry respectively.
Seems like Norse units in general is just worse than other civs
I've felt that since playing retold.
their cav can be quite good and they have some of the best heroic myth units in the game imo (the rock giant and mountain giant are so good)
Whenever I play Norse I go heavy on raiding cav and frost giants. Their infantry melts to any other, especially Greek
I feel the other way, specially when you go berserk heavy minor gods and loki
It's so much dmg and spamming mythic units nostop
Norse have many type infantry for counters , as general good unit you can make hersirs , little expensive but good……greek units are only 2 and expensive thats why they are somewhat strong, atlantean inf also are very good . Egyptian inf are also somewhat cheap and counter units….but all infantry and gods have some good tech upgrades from gods 🎉🎉
Have to disagree with throwing axemen being worse than the other two anti infantry counters. In small numbers, the TA is worse but as the numbers increase, the deathball becomes a lot stronger. Similar to crossbows in AoE2, a big enough blob of TA will shread any melee opponents. 100 TA will beat 100 axemen or hypapist, especially in a choke point.
Oh and btw discord server is excellent way to do it! I’ve ran servers and made servers in the past. So if you need any help I got you. They are really fun and cool to set up. And a great way for everyone to get involved with not just you but others.
I feel norse got more unique buffs for their infantry than the other factions, which means their base stats might be lower. Nothing is stopping the fully upgraded Thor berserker with berserkergang or Odin berserker with frenzy and berserkergang
The problem I have with norse infantry is that Hersirs are the better option 90% of the time. They are tankier, they are heroes, you don't need the infantry upgrades for them, you can make them from multiple buildings, they generate more favor and you get them from first age.
Nice intro man!
seeing all the stats is SO informative.
But its weird, early on I heard people love spamming throwing axemen, and I have SO much success with just teching up to age II and then just spam the early hero unit and throwing axemen and I just run over every enemy army I play against.
Keep it up magic
but in late game (with armoury upgrades), the divine damage of the myrmidons is better than that of the fanatics, right? i mean they are age 4 infantry so... but also fanatics can be upgraded as heroes... anyway,berserkers go brrr (with Vidar tecs: around 20dps + lifesteal)
I still think fanatics are better, but myrms are better vs MUs
I have to disagree with not choosing the Throwing Axeman vs Ragnarok...they can dance around that huge mass and slowly poke them down...while Hypaspist would have to engage fully into overwhelming numbers
with good micro they can be good, the issue is with rag that since your opponent is going to have an overwhelming number of units ontop of you, you'll likely get surrounded
Great video.
Thank you so much!!!
Great video!
Based on the tier list videos you have released. How is it that the atlanteans have such a bad win rate if they have several great units.
Keep up the good work!
They have a slightly weaker economy I believe, their citizens are suppose to equate to 2 vills of other civs but based on testing done by a friend of mine they’re approximately equivalent to 1.5
@@IamMagicAOM that sounds adequate. What army composition do you recommend for atlanteans in the classical age?
Will there be a relic tierlist as well? :)
at some point, but I want to cover the important topics first that can help people improve