Secret Invasion's ai Art Intro, Explained
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- Опубликовано: 23 июн 2023
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The Secret Invasion AI Art intro has sparked controversy across the internet. But what does this really mean? Did Marvel replace their animators with robots? How does this technology work, and does it spell the end for all mankind?
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Written by Dodson Seitz / banewruse
Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
Edited by Harriet Lengel-Enright, Randolf Nombrado, and Sofien Dami
Featuring:
Noah Sterling / noahsterling42
Heather Antos / heatherantos
#SecretInvasion #AI #TheyTookOurJobs
So, what do you think about the AI rt in secret invasion? R you a soulles monster who thinks that humans should be replaced by AI for corporate gain? Let me know your thoughts….
*editor note*
[opening clip: “ a solid clip that hooks people in”]
Welcome to ScreenCrush, I’m Ryan Arey. As amazing as the first episode of secret invasion was - it was mired with controversy.
It included the death of a beloved character, and a terrorist attack on Russian soil - but by far the biggest controversy was literally in the opening credits. [clip]
Doug: Yea, what was up with that intro? It was super weird looking - like it was made with one of those.. AI image-maker-thingys…
That’s because its was. The intro was created by Method studios, a visual effects company with a killer resume that includes movies like watchmen, mad max fury road and MANY marvel films.
They used a custom AI tool to give the intro a specific look and the reaction from fans has been…. Mixed.
Doug: Makes sense! isnt there a writers strike going on RIGHT NOW - protesting this exact thing?
There 100% is, which is why the timing of this, couldn’t be worse. A little later I’m going to talk to animation producer Noah Sterling and IDW conics editor heather antos about this, but first, here’s some background.
As we’ve discussed in other videos, on may 2nd 2023, the writers Guild went on strike for the 6th time since its founding and a month later they’re still going strong. [clip]
While the main focus of the strike is to get fair compensation for the writers who create the stories we love, one of the other major concerns is preventing AI script writers from replacing real ones. [clip]
While method studios was only using AI generated animation, the situation feels eerily similar to the EXACT scenario these writers are striking to prevent.[clip]
Beyond that, HOW the software creates those visuals is also a reason for concern.
One of problems - specifically with AI generated art - is the fact that it uses data from thousands of neural networks. [clip] These networks use images from various artists across the Internet -many without permission - to produce art identical to their own. [clip]
In some cases, it’s outright copyright infringment-and in others, It’s really close to the line.
Doug: Well, moral implicatsions aside, it does kinda fit the vibe!
And there's a portion of fans agree - hence the mixed reactions.
The visually deceptive elements of AI, morphing objects and textures back-and-forth, as well as the big feelings people have behind the technology - couldn't be more emblematic of a series about Aliens secretly replacing humans.
It was a risky creative decision by creator Ali Selim, but definitely an intentional one-they said “It felt explorative and inevitable, and exciting, and different.” [clip]
And in that way, it’s a success. We can always tell when something digital feels off, it’s like the uncanny valley effect.
Doug: Like Shia about, swinging with all those monkeys in Crysta Skull.
Now, back to secert invasion’s intro. It’s probably the most controversial marvel intro yet, even some of the concept artists who worked on the project have had pretty harsh public comments about this.[stil] Jeff Simpsons said:
“Secret Invasion intro is AI generated. I’m devastated, I believe AI to be unethical, dangerous and designed solely to eliminate artists careers. Spent almost half a year working on this show and had a fantastic experience working with the most amazing people I ever met…”
Some fans have even proposed boycotting the show all together…
Doug: Wait, so your telling me - they’re gonna boycott a show - made by A BUNCH of humans -just cause some of them used AI? Thats skipping on 50 mins of show for like a 40 second intro. 
Кино
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Criticizing AI and advertizing it in the same video😂😂
Uhuh! Let's see how it ends...
I fell for another of your ad transition👏👏
I don’t think it worked
I did not like the intro, AI or not. The images just didn’t feel like there was any style connection to any form of the Marvel world.
I wish you guys would dial back the ad integration a little. I'm glad you're getting paid for your work, but it's gotten so intrusive in the videos now that it takes away from them for me.
As someone who works in the film industry, I really appreciate that ScreenCrush tries to bring in working professionals to educate the audience on the Entertainment industry. It's always been difficult to make a living in the industry because most positions are a gig to gig basis. When studios and producers use AI to shortcut and underpay actual artists, its another blow to people who are already financially struggling. Not to mention the ethics of using AI art as a substitute rather than a tool.
I also work in the film and tv industry. I 100% agree with you. Thank you for sharing. Solidarity ✊
🎯🎯
exactly
Your kind will soon be replaced and its all your fault
ofcourse you work in the film industry, just like how my dad owns rockstar games
I’m loving that you’re having more people with differing opinions on or with the ability to provide added context
I feel a lot of Artist and even Writers aren’t conventionally scared of AI like everyone else, it’s the companies that use AI will continue to devalue the persons work and undermine the hard work that actually gets put in by actual living people that mostly end up working 2 jobs to make ends meet
Correct. That's the bottom line. The WGA doesn't necessarily think that the studios are going to be able to produce compelling scripts anytime soon. They know 100% that the studios will use AI to generate garbage quality spec scripts and try to hire human writers to punch them up. Anyone who has ever edited a poorly written report, script etc. knows that editing/rewriting bad work is more work than just writing it yourself.
The "AI is getting too smart" line is basically the equivalent of a humblebrag by tech bro marketing departments. They're selling a lie that they have sentient machine when in fact they have an algorithm that predicts what words a human would use in response to a certain prompt.
It’s the culmination of something that’s been happening for a while. I have a friend who used to illustrate YA fantasy book covers, then the publishers started using photographs. Now I’ve been hearing about major publishers using stock photos, even for books by bestselling authors. The ubiquitous “corporate Memphis” illustration style is due to the fact that clients aren’t willing to pay for complex illustrations.
Exactly...technology is not inherently bad...innovation is key
However, it is naive to expect people to simply embrace these new innovations when they are fully aware that the moment an autonomous system starts working well executives will not think twice about cutting jobs to improve profit margins
@@charlies_memoir5136 Even if the results are crap (see the sharp decline in VFX quality in recent movies).
@@mborok That is definitely a debate to be had about the quality in recent films and such
However, remember that studios such as Marvel have been shown to overwork VFX artists to meet their timelines
I am not arguing that things have been perfect, all I'm saying is...this Fourth Industrial Revolution is not merely going to stop with VFX artists and script writers
There is a serious conversation to be heard about how the new technologies can be ethically integrated into workplaces and what impact they will have
I'm saying that because its inevitable that AI and other technologies will only get better and more powerful so I believe its worth looking into how that future will be
I honestly feel that Marvel using AI adds to the "who can you trust" feel for the show. That's just me though.
Honestly I think it's fitting, I wasn't expecting it ,but I can see how Al ,and skrull match once another ,but I do believe they should have pushed it further creatively beyond just AI.
And give it to actual artist, but then again, it’s marvel.. they’ll fuck over the artist either way.
its like drawing on paper and drawing on computer, if u dont progrss u lose…
@@Devilspuppets89you clearly don’t understand why they did it….
I loved it and I work in the industry. AI has a very distinctive look and it looks like they did edit the AI work so it’s not 100% AI and i would guess the didn’t make it in 1 day, still a lot of work.
It definitely looks like it was not done by a human and was done on purpose. Skrulls are a copy of a human, but there has to be something they miss, for not being human. The AI opening is meant to not feel real.
Do you really think the people at marvel are that Intelligent?
@@NoahOliveyes, the higher ups no.
@@ked49 you have to remember though, the less intelligent 'Higher Ups' hired everyone beneath them. So why would you expect anyone beneath to be any more intelligent?
@@NoahOliveway more intelligent than u obviously 😂
@@NoahOlive49% of people are in the smarter half of humanity. And that is around 4 billion people. So yeah, highly likely they are smarter than their boss
Ryan & ScreenCrush have been on top of this strike and bringing us all the information we need. Salute to you guys fr!
I thought the intro was sick. And its a whole studio its not like some kid wrote "create the secret invasion intro" into chatgpt and it just spat that back out. Theres actual skill and technique involved
This conversation is so interesting. I noticed that the ai intro does at times really reference art in a direct way. For example at the 1:28 marks the image is an almost green copy of Caspar Friedrich's Wanderer above the Sea Fog. The question of the rights of artists is going to come up time and again.
I liked it because there was clear intention and input and direction behind it.
This was a great interview and informative and objective. This reply was not generated by an AI.
Well my two cents: I am a graphic designer, the amount of times in the past year or so that i have been approached by a client wanting a logo design with some 'Design Ideas' done by some random AI takes away the creativity from my side. It feels like i am just copy, Pasting and correcting because the broadness of creativity is being removed.
I don’t think AI will substitute artists anytime soon, but artists who know how to use AI as an additional tool to what they already have will substitute artist that don’t know how to use it. And I think this will happen in many professions.
Facts! The technology just put the tools into more people’s hands so people will have to get good enough to distinguish themselves in ways that are more difficult to replicate.
That is exactly what I'm thinking! I'm an artist myself and I want to point out that there're things in an art project that is purely tedious work with zero artistry needed. I would love to let AI do those work for me so that I can focus more on the art side of the project. It should also allow me to finish an art project quicker or do a much more complicated project that I previously cannot do.
I agree. I work in education, and we are already seeing AI being used to create courseware. We have to go through it and make sure it’s correct information, but the point is it’s being used to write lessons and curricula.
On the flip side of this, it’s being used to write thesis and dissertations. That is worrisome.
You all do realize chine reduced in 70% their Concept artists in videogames because of A.I right?
I’ve been defending this opening credit since it dropped, if you use a tool ethically there’s nothing wrong with it
It's still extremely tone deaf in the current situation with the WGA strike. It's a slap in the face from a bully of company to the people they should be negotiating with. The end game of corporate entertainment is to remove as many wages as possible to increase profit. It's business. It's ugly. Fuck Disney.
Thank ryan ,and secret crush team for using your platform to talk about this, and take the side of the artists ,and not tow the corporate line on this👏🏽👏🏽.
this is how i ai should be, a tool and not a replacement.
I thought it was a bold move and knew immediately that people would be upset about it. I think it works thematically I was more disappointed that the song isn’t more interesting.
In my humble opinion, if my material is used as a “base”, process further through AI and become a new product. I still should be compensated and giving partial credit.
What do you think of the AI Art Intro?
Honestly would’ve have even noticed if marvel didn’t let the fans know
I think it’s cool
I mean it’s cool it gives off that vibe but next time stick to the usual oh why not both Pay the Artist writers more and use AI A bit of balance.
Greed at its worst.
Love to all the human creators in the world.
Boycott AI. Hurt their wallets.
People should begin making the difference between the tool and the artist. When the photography appeared, artists thought they're on the way out. When AI appeared, people thought they'll be layed out of jobs instead having a symbiotic relationship. When drones appeared, Admiral Cain thought pilots are on the way out.
But not today.
I thought the intro was weird but now that I understand the premise behind the intro, I think it’s pretty cool it’s unfortunate that developers and artists did not get paid for it though
More people were paid
At 5:58 Ryan says irregardless.
Screen crush has always been AI generated
Sending those daily positive vibes from Houston everyone!🙏🏼
Shut it
@@Joedougal cheers
@@Joedougal Good day to you mate.
@@JoedougalI hope you have a wonderful day today.
There’s no great show/series w/o a little controversy. The start of this show was a Masterpiece! Have to put it up there with some of the best MCU content imo. Dark, Gritty, and suspenseful has been a much needed spark for the MCU! Also much props for Sam for the great performance!
@ScreenCrush The supposed metaphor of AI generated imagery representing the mimicry of Skrulls completely falls apart since the Skrulls are thinking, feeling beings as complex as humans. Maybe it would work if the villains of the show were AI programs. But the core problem is that these image generators were created with stolen work, can only function with stolen work, and their intended purpose is to diminish and devalue labor. It's not a tool for working artists -- it's a means to replace them.
let's not confuse 1. academic artists (fine arts, concept, performance) that are working on artwork for gallery exhibitions with 2. graphic designers and illustrators. First one builds his persona connected to his expression like a philosopher and is valued by official critique. Second one is hired to do a job. First one will not be replaced by ai. Also bestseller writer recognized author books are going to be bought because of his expression and his name. Ai writer used in entertainment industry it just tool to help industry to spend less and make more content. yes writers should be compensated fairly on the job also as designers and illustrators. but also we can't stop progress of industrialization of digital craft. some jobs will change or be put to a minimum. If you can create something thought provoking and beautiful who cares what tools are used. I work as a vfx artist and for the last 20 years I am adapting every year to new conditions and tools that are speeding things up and dropping prices of products. but my hourly rate has only increased.
my brother translates for a living. most of his work is in the medical field or the legal field. AI has now basically taken a layer of work away from him. The company he works for uses AI to translate a document and they get him to check the work and is being payed less to do so.
I feel like when it comes down to it. It takes away from people and their talent. If an artist wants to use it to better their work as "tool". That would be a great way to keep it "in house." Otherwise, I feel like getting permission, paying royalties, and recognition on the credits would be the alternative if say a studio wants to imitate a piece of work.
What is the difference between what she was saying, and an actual human artist finding inspiration from someone else's art and making their own version? It seems like the same workflow; but instead of a person, it's a computer. I work in audio, so it reminds me of an "AutoMix" function, it's never going to replace what I do, just makes my job a tad bit easier in some cases.
Mmm, AI art. An iffy situation. There are problems with copyright, but there clearly was work put into the intro.
At last someone with a brain explaining publicly how it actually was made and why.
thank you so much for covering this story Screen Crush. I too work in the TV and film industry and studios are always looking to hire less crew and pay them less so that they can take home more of the profits for their shareholders. They have been doing this for years. I have seen big budget shows not hire sufficient staff - small crews making little money are forced to do more work in less time. its not right because crew members are not able to earn enough money to sustain a healthy lifestyle - like afford rent (forget owning a home), afford health insurance etc... its also a terrible practice because it impacts the quality of the work. So whenever there is a video here about any show or film being "poorly made" people should look to the studios. if you give a writer less time to write the story the story will be poor. The reason there is a lot of garbage films and shows out there is the same reason there are so many train derailments in America. It's because the owners of the companies are trying to save money by cutting corners which impact the safety and health of the workers and the community that that company touches. This is why unions are so important because they stand with us workers and its why all should stand with the WGA writers during their strike. the shareholders that own the railroad industries also own the movie studios and many other companies... you'd be shocked. This is why antitrust and unions are so important. its important that workers stand united against any effort to disempower workers - AI or otherwise
the ironic part of your rant is that AI will help in all those problems. Why hire 20 animators to work 20 hr days when you can hire half as many artists and animators to establish a look and then feed it into an AI script to animate. it makes life easier and cheaper for everyone involved freeing up resources for corporations to reinvest in other ventures and freeing up artists and engineers to work on other projects while also allowing them to work on passion projects as it no longer cost millions to animate 20 minutes of footage. the only issue with AI is when it is trained on artist's work that did not consent. As with any new tech, those that dont get it and can't adapt to using it will be pushed out by more clever and talented individuals. it's how every industry stays fresh.
18:38 this has always been the case. Very few people have the capacity to imagine themselves to be in such a niche and highly skilled field if they can’t even have certainty about where their next meal is going to come from, or if their can’t afford to go to the dentist. Besides which, it is (for the vast majority of artists) highly resource-intensive to gain the skills necessary to even begin to think about joining the highly competitive top-tier of artists who can make actually a living producing art. So artists either come from families of artists (who can foster their talent and provide endless mentoring and networking, and probably have plenty of excess art supplies or musical instruments or whatever supplies are needed for the given art) or they have sufficient money needed to supply what it necessary for their children to even contemplate going into the arts.
The other element is the extreme risks that artist must take to “make it” to the professional level. Undoubtedly many tens of thousands of high schoolers are in drama or music or art, but only a select few will be able to have the resources to go to endless auditions and to continuously produce art and improve their skill (and also not give up on this dream) in the hope that one day they can be able to be paid for producing art.
Oh, Dollhouse? Love seeing the clips of different media and how you/your editors get them integrated.
The ONLY issue I have with the opening credits is that they are 10x longer than they need to be and I’d rather the show be longer. Visually its awesome and fascinating and unique and people are going to skip them just as much as they already do lol
When he talks about the “gig economy “ and that people have to know someone or work for these places for free or near free for a long time in hopes to get employed may be true but we’ve also seen the opposite now thanks to social media. People like Bosslogic that just did it out of the joy of producing art and sharing it have gotten jobs just based on their talent and the ability to share. He not only ended up with huge jobs from doing this but even influenced (on multiple occasions) which actors got roles in the MCU.
I think it is beautiful. It is in theme, and also.... people who say it takes jobs are wrong. Ai always requires someone to tell it what to do, someone who understands art, an artist.
You clearly didn't watch the whole discussion.
Exactly there just hating on marvel
@@HolyFieldM5yep. Its just another bandwagon.
AI writing programs will soon replace any one that thinks they’re an artist by inputting prompts. Soon all an executive of a large entertainment company will need is a handful of people. 😡
@@Ursus3978 ai is incapable of this. It lacks creative thinking
When factory workers are replaced by automation: They deserve it! When film makers are replaced by automation: This must be stopped! The hypocrisy is ridiculous.
As far as steady careers for the artists I feel like there could be a lot of roles made out of properly administering the use and access to art for starters... I'm sure there are ways for both sides (studios/ artists)to sustain and benefit each other. Maybe get better at sharing profits from tech upgrades could help as well and you could sort of tie it to clocking hours for R&D type projects?
I think it's very important to remember that these models work in sort of the same way our brains do, how humans learn. I wouldnt be an artist myself i hadnt looked at other art. I need to know what art is to make art. At least that's how I see it.
I do not like ads, but I REALLY have to applaud your smooth integration of ads into your content. Your advertisers are lucky.
Technology made slavery obsolete and we adapted, abolished slavery and moved on. Now technology is making waged slavery obsolete and people are mad? Where was this anger when automation obliterated factory jobs for the past 50 years?
We need to adapt, change our economy, implement a UBI and stop relying on "jobs" for people to survive. It's antiquated philosophy and it hasn't worked, especially under our predatory capitalistic system.
Technology isn't going to slow down, so we can either adapt or let our economy collapse.
Dude.... ROBOTS/ELECTRONICS stole human artwork and morphed it together during a time that (human writers) are on strike .....but you say it's okay. The rest of us are the problem. Okay.
@@JaeSprooI never said we are the problem. I said the economy is the problem and the fact that these writers and artists have to rely on selling their works to survive.
Also, we don't know if any art was stolen to create this art. Like it was stated in this video, they could have used their own art and that is backed up by artists being credited in the show.
Privatization is a completely different debate though.
You need help. Please delete your comment & get help. Automation hurts everyday people.
It enables corporate greed. Crap I don't use self-checkout.
Not about to watch a show using AI in any capacity.
@@JaeSprooartist have been stealing artwork since the dawn of the renaissance
Even if this intro was ethically made, my biggest issue with the intro is how heartless it is as if skrulls aren't doing whatever they are out of a want for home. They are trying to protect their species. They are looking for the freedom to be themselves. It's all about the heart and soul. The choice itself feels lazy then.
Great video Ryan. Very interesting and informative. I love the usual fare but I'd like more videos like this too with guests from the industry. Tell Doug he's a good boy!
I would love to hear your take on why comic book writers should get better recognition and pay from Hollywood. I would definitely share that video with as much people as possible!
Off topic but heather’s wallpaper is just 😍😍😍😍😍 I NEED it! 🥰
Did anyone else see that title and think for a second that Weird Al Yankovic had made his MCU debut?
"Designed solely to eliminate artistic careers" is an example of how to make everything revolve about you. IA predictions has being there for us programmers for years and only now that is everywhere people started saying it will replace us, when in reality it has only make or jobs faster. Yes, there are a lot of unethical implications with artists, but those are things that can evolve and be resolved, they ALSO have access to this tools anyways, it's not them VS the AI, it's all of us with the help us IA VS the problems we face.
I think the point is that many end users (and plenty of big corporations) are very hand-wavey about those ethical implications, and much of the outcry from artists is about this hand-wavey-ness. I'd argue even this reply is kinda hand-wavey about it.
"Yes, there are a lot of unethical implications with artists, but those are things that can evolve and be resolved."
How exactly can we resolve these unethical implications fairly and appropriately if artists are told they're making everything about them when they raise these concerns?
Thank you, this is great info to get from people in the industry. What's hilarious is I got into an argument with a friend; I'd said so many things brought up in this video (like I bet you could use it as a tool, not replacing artists, or that you could input your own art, or free-use art, that I thought different AI software might be used in different ways) but was told no, I was wrong about everything. All AI was evil, it ALWAYS steals copyrighted material/other people's work, no consent, etc.
Skrulls are shape shifters! It’s like we are arguing over bs. The whole point of this show is about the secret invasion of skrulls and finding out who is real and who is skrulls. So ofcourse the intro will artfully illustrate just that. Transformation/shape shifting
Id love to see a deep dive on Short Circuit Vs AI. J5 went from being AI to being "Alive" (I think the movies do a great job trying to debate what it actually means to be alive, but I digress) and how much of what he learns or struggles with is actual programming or conciseness.
My issue with the argument that AI generated art is a derivative of so many different contributors from a huge Data Set that it’s negligible…. is that it’s like saying that it’s OK that I stole because I didn’t steal more than a couple of pennies from 20 million people.
That was the smoothest transition into paid promotion I’ve ever seen
ALL artists are ‘trained’ on the art of others. It’s always been that way, some more directly influenced than others. So I find this argument that the ML training models are unethical to be fundamentally flawed. That said, the music industry got ahead of this with crediting and sampling having a financial model behind it. I suspect the film/art industries will need to do the same thing to stay ahead of laws created by people who don’t understand any of that.
Illustrators: I would prefer working with a writer who can show me exactly what they want.
Writers: Here are some renders of the characters from some software.
Illustrators: I didn't mean that....
The us of AI in the intro was brilliant. AI attempts to imitate humans but usually doesn't quite get it right resulting in something that feels alien; nevertheless, people still fear that the AI will replace them (it wont).
This is a perfect analogy for Aliens that are attempting to imitate humans in an effort to replace them (they wont).
The very thing that offends some people about using AI art is exactly why it was perfect for the intro of this show in particular.
I really liked the AI intro! I thought it was definitely on theme for a show about Skrulls copying and replacing humans. AI is just another tool for artists to use, but it gets weird when you can have it copy another artist’s style.
Here's the problem with AI; you say it gets weird when it can copy an artist's work, but even if it's not intentionally copying a specific artist, it will end up stealing artwork and copying the style of real artists. Thus, no matter what, AI art will be weird because it will always be stealing art, inadvertently or not.
It does look kinda cool and it does fit the theme of the show but my feeling is that it also could've just been done by an actual human
@@keithwoodcrestidk if I should agree or disagree
Some level-headed commentary here, rather than the reactionary, fear-driven pearl clutching.
As an illustrator myself, I appreciate the intro concept and what they were trying to achieve. The unfortunate issue, is that the AI scours imagery online that is owned by someone else (the original creator of that imagery). The debate here is interesting, since the AI (and the human using it) is simply doing what humans have been doing for millennia - absorbing other art to influence their work - the main difference is that the AI can do it in a matter of seconds, with minimal, unskilled (arguably) input from a human.
The intro looks great.
And saying that AI will take jobs is like saying that everything should be manufactured by hand, because factory automation is taking peoples job :D
And the legal aspect is also strange, because I (maybe not really me) can be inspired by different other existing paintings and I still can sell my painting without paying royalties to the other artists.
Fascinating discussion. A thousand years from now they will discover AI hieroglyphic art and have zero relatable, substantive understanding of humanity in it's truest most accurate form.
I'm not in the film industry, but I can say that every single industry I've been in has similar parameters. Free labor in hopes of moving up
A show that is literally branded for "not knowing who is whom or what is real" has an AI intro? Oh no. It makes 100% sense, i think its great and makes perfect sense for this particular project. And this didnt stop WRITERS feom working, it just stopped an animator or two, who may have already been over worked anyways and may have enjoyed the break.
"an animator or two..." lol
They say no animators jobs were lost
If they didn’t hire an animator
To do that no animators were lost. They weren’t hired in the first place 🤷🏻♂️
@they had animators work with others so more people were hired
Exactly people just hating on marvel
First: Thanks ScreenCrush team for speaking about this subjects and some others about how the Entertainment Industry works.
Second: I bring up this ideas just to put them on the table for us to reflect upon. I'm not looking for debate. I just want you to reflect upon this:
How do great writers become great writers? How do they train themselves to become: 1. employable and 2. to find their own voice in the process? Hasn't it be done by researching and analyzing, mimiking, and emulating the writers they admire?
How do illustrators, sketchers, painters train in Art School? Isn't it by researching, analyzing, mimiking and emulating the great painters, designers and artists of the past? Picasso was able to "create" cubism after he prooved his teachers and critics that was able to paint like Rembrandt, Cezanne and all the great ones before him. And that meant, yes, paint with great technical quality in their own style. And let's not forget that great cinematographers learn how to light researching, analyzing, mimiking and emulating great painters. Let's not forget that even the name of the painters are used to refer to a certain style of use of light and composition: "Give me a Rembrandt here".
What about Directors that admire the final product of other directors and then use part of their style or technic and produced a blockbuster movie? They are the ones paid. They are the ones that receive the awards. I don't see them giving a percentage of their earnings to those Directors, who sometimes are still alive, from whom they grabed inspiration from.
Yes we use words like: inspired by or paying a homage to, but in the end is the same thing: taking from the arts of others to create our own.
Ponder that. Reflect upon who do you owe to, who were your inspirations that helped you become the artist you are today and for being able to achieve that job you are enjoying today?
Peace to everyone. Thanks Team ScreenCrush for speaking about this subjects.
I get that some people are okay with the AI opening, because of how it's utilized here, but I'm afraid this is a doorway to it being used in many worse ways later on. I remember in Jurassic Park, where they had some CGI forscenes, but they also had a full sized robot T-rex, and they had practical effects with all the dinosaurs. And while that worked so well, a few years down the line, they scrapped all the practical effects and have gone full CGI with everything.
I’ve been getting this feeling when I see something that looks really cool but then I find out that it’s AI, I just get a little disappointed and lose some of that feeling of appreciation for that art. I thought the Secret Invasion intro looked cool and really impressive until I heard it was AI and then it just kind of took some of that wind out of my sails.
and yet SC accepts sponsorship from AI generators
AI Art is weird tho. I remember in 3rd grade I stole a book. Stan Lee's How To Draw Comics. It taught me a lot, but I used my own style with it..... WAIT AM I AI????😮
it comes down to whether the source imagery was ethically sourced or not imo. I understand they were going for an off putting theme here and that makes sense given the subject matter. I admit i had a knee jerk reaction when I heard that this was AI generated. This conversation was interesting though, i am still undecided whether to boycott the show or not. I guess I will wait until i find out if the source was in fact from a lead concept artist or just generated from scratch, ie, pulling from other artists without consent.
People were paid, final product looked different from training data.
Artist have been taking inspiration from others since art was created. I really don’t see the problem. Artists don’t go to every inspiration and ask them for permission.
I wish my job was that easy. Couple buttons pushed and the computer does all the work. 🤔
Here comes the end of movies.
“”Greaaaat””
Ai isn’t that smart. You have to keep writing better prompts to get what you want
So, if someone using a trained AI to create art has to pay a royalty to use the art, then why shouldn't a painter doing "art in the style of X" not have to pay a royalty to the artist(s) he's copying?
Guess artists with pads and cameras shouldn't be allowed in museums.....
Heather holding strong. Techbros shouldn't shut her down
Yeah AI needs to be used by humans to make things. The problem is that the humans most eager to use it are the creeps who run the studios, because they want to make product without paying any real workers.
THANKS for this!!!! By the way, Ryan, "How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way" has been back in print for quite a while. I thought it was really "How To Draw Like John Buscema," but my tangential reading of Marvel's history shows you are clearly right. I am not a soulless monster--in fact, I'm a freelancer myself!--but I do think that what technology gives (20th century) it can now clearly take away.
I am a monster.
But I cannot stand the thought of our voices being silenced any further... it is with our expressions, thoughts and actions that ai was created. Never should it be ☆programed☆ the freedom to express that for us!
Art is sanctuary!
People, in every difference should be the foundation that the sanctuary is built upon.
Your really slick with the advertising 🤣
it doesn't take away from the overall show. we need to get used to A.I. artwork being incorporated into cinema, and television. like it or not it's here.
My friend plays War Thunder too
He likes battle ships and air tanks or whatever so much that he talks about it everyday in school😊
Oh for example 2B From near automata she’s an android AI a good one hell in a few years from now US Military Will use these types of technology to fight our wars.
Ai isn’t that smart, unless programmed to “win a war” and it’s solution would probably be nukes
incredible video! It is a very informative and necessary video to inform those who are not into this stuff and can easily get confused and draw the wrong conclusions.
Holy SHIT. can’t believe SC is stumping for AI. Every argument RA makes in this video is purely to minimize the adverse effects that AI is inflicting on the industry. Pay writers? You actually said “pay writers??” And THEN immediately made the argument that “we can get our shows back faster if the writers use AI”? Which is it, Ryan? Seems like you’re valuing your content over the livelihoods of the people that provide it to you.
Bootlicker
@@djianfaceit doesn’t cost jobs when used as a tool. Like what happened in secret invasion
@@ked49 it does. An artist should have been paid to create those images. It’s unethical because AI is theft, utilizing millions of images to create (not inspire, create) composite works that lack originality or artistic intent.
“They were paid” paid what? For a second draft, for editing a computer image vomited up by stealing other images?
Just pay humans to create art. It’s simple.
@@djianface Ok, why don't you do it? Have no money? shame.
I'm a professional writer. I have sold movie scripts and books. I do use AI (midjourney, mostly), right now, to make concept art (pre-viz) for scripts I'm working on but it's for my own reference and my own geek joy. I don't provide that pre-viz to anyone, just the words. I don't rely on it, and doing so would hobble me creatively I expect.
The SI opening does what it was made to do. It is unsettling. It has a feeling of being unique and inauthentic simultaneously.
Your discussion is interesting and would require an in-depth discussion, which may lead to nowhere because the technology is already here and being integrated too completely in our lives.
1) Since everyone believes so readily in evolution, they may need to consider that evolution is both disinterested and incapable of being interested in its impact on those entities it effects. We may need to develop more social and legal guidelines for what we expect from a tool or service before we make it and use it. Right now, it seems we only live to react to what we or others produce.
2) I want people to be able to live. But it seems that capitalism is not designed to benefit everyone consistently for an extended period of time. Capitalism isn't bad, but perhaps we need to do a better job teaching people how to navigate it while we seem to never stop producing "tools" that take away the human value in that economic structure.
3) The music industry seems to be analogous to the visual arts industry. I am not clear on how the artists of the past or their descendants are profiting from those who learn from their work, often by copying their work exactly, until they can competently produce their own original content. I am not clear how Elvis is not still revered as the King of Rock and Roll despite the considerations of cultural appropriation. It took Tom Petty himself to point out the similarities between his work and that of Sam Smith. Metallica sued Napster, and there are now better rules in place, but musicians are still having difficulty with the streaming platforms to protect and financially benefit from their work. The arguments presented here only seem to suggest that the problem with AI is that the people who helped that AI become powerful ended up losing economic stability and credit for their intellectual property. But AI seems to be a new way of what we've always done as a human species-find new ways to do more with less; learn from the past; work smarter, not harder. I hope the writers and the artists on strike can achieve something by it, and I would hate bigotry to be the only refuge (thinking Star Wars and andriods, American racism, etc.) these people may have, but it is hard to see how they can achieve much from debate and legal petition.
4) We need farmers to produce our food. But every dollar we spend for that food profits everyone else but the farmer. If I then become the farmer by building a product that produces that food more cheaply, do I still owe the original farmer, the transporters of the produce, the package companies, the restaurants, etc. that I no longer deem necessary? Do I owe the farmer who taught me how to plant, harvest, clean, and cook that food, particularly if I do it differently enough that those methods seem proprietary to my process?
It just seems as though we keep fighting progress and consequences without ever considering enough on what impact our choices will have. And, unfortunately, it feels like we must make those choices before we often feel ready to make them.
I had no idea it was AI, thought it was some kinda picaso type art. Like starry night or the scream. And yes I know those aren't Picaso
Thought this was so clear! Occasionally use AI for textile design and feel weird about it- having more context without a bunch of hyperbole is super helpful.
I’m telling you Nick fury is wearing the same outfit in trailer as Everett Ross is wearing in first episode…. I think he is a skrull
I’m thinking he was a skrull for a long time
I could tell AI did it too. Much to the theme of marvel rushing thru aspects of their product or productions as of late. In Contrast spidermans new show, crowed room, has a oil painting shifting like cinema intro, and it looks amazing like feels possibly hand painted. Probably not, but it Acomplished its intent bc it "looks" may have been hand painted cartoon, or hand stylused with an ipad or at least human produced with oil paintings then popped in sketchbook or special fxs software or something
I could explain how the intro was actually made. Your experts gave their best try, but Noah missed the mark on the process a bit. He was very knowledgeable about AI in general however, and IMO did an important job of educating the audience on how much the artist is involved in the process. AI is definitely a tool in the workflow, when it's at this level.
Great episode, thanks for your hard work and always sharing great stuff!
That intro could be entirely generated with AI. Human guided, but no image inputs would be needed.
The secret of this is just thinking simple. The intro is a metaphor of our reality being unconsciously invaded by artificial intelligence. Just like how skrulls are secretly invading the mcu.
Never stray.
I appreciate you more than 4.18 billion people.
Information is your game,, perfection is the name
I think humans could have created much better, but the intro created by AI was also good, i liked it. That's the main point as said in video, that generally people are satisfied with "good enough".
I find all of this to be metaphorically on the nose machines replacing humans jus like the skrulls you know this actually reminds how frustrating it is to speak my words out thru a IPhone keyboard
Ya know, artists also had complaints and fears about photography when that technology first started to spread. -- Yes, AI based on other artists works without permission is crappy, but it's just another tool for artists to use. Like a paintbrush, or a new camera lens, or photoshop. --- That's my opinion, I welcome yours.
Maybe I missed it but it seems eerily odd that nobody mentioned Dave McKean when discussing this issue. And the fact they said it doesn’t look like it was made by humans when it obviously looks like the work of a human named Dave McKean.
Replace the word "train" with "inspire" and see how the argument changes. If I paint a picture inspired by a Rembrandt, would that not be allowed?
Did you pay them?
Important information, no jobs were replaced by ai. They had artists working with technicians and animators. So people saying this cost people’s livelihood are just incorrect.
So the only problem is the training not the use.
The only controversy should be the using of others art without permission. And even that isn’t really a problem if the results are different than the original piece. Because as an artist you have to take inspiration from somewhere and that inspiration can be other art.
It was awesome and everyone else can shut tf up about it
I think the Heather Antos has pin pointed the matter. Even I could see swirly effects of sky like that of famous Starry Night. This is a gray area where all the ethics and immorality blends together.
How is Everyone(esp. Carol Danvers) forgetting the "RETIREMENT PLANet" that Thanos had???🤔🤔
Wasn't that planet said to be completely uninhabited in Endgame???
Couldn't Carol Danvers inform the Skrulls about that planet???🤷♂🤷♂
Yes
Except no, thanos snapped everyone from the planet
@@ked49so they came back?
@@stealthystudios4129yes
Very interesting conversation!! I hope the artists start to get some better compensation for their work. I don’t know how sites like midjourney can even exist legally.
Loved it, it put the viewer on a path to know that something was wrong. That uncanny valley feeling where at first glance you may not be able to put your finger on it but it does exactly what it was meant to do and all the so-called controversy talk just gets more people interested. Those who are going to boycott are just looking for an excuse to say "look at me" but we're too busy enjoying the show.
Brilliant transition into the ad.