Is the MCU Dead After SECRET INVASION?
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- Опубликовано: 8 авг 2023
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After the failure of Secret Invasion, many fans and critics are asking if the MCU is dead. The overall quality of the brand is declining, and fan interest in new characters is at an all-time low? So is Marvel Studios going to right the ship? Or is it too late for Kevin Feige to save the studio he built...
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Written and Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
Edited by Harriet Lengel-Enright, Randolf Nombrado, Brianna McLarty, and Andrew Finkenstaedt
#Marvel #MCU #Secret Invasion
So…is the MCU Dead? That’s what the internet is saying after the ending of Secret Invasion hit a new low for Marvel Studios. So let’s dive deep into that question-first I’ll explain all the reasons the MCU could be in a death rattle-along with all other big franchises-but then I’ll explain why all you haters out there need to calm down.
Doug: Don’t tell me to calm down.
Calm down buddy.
Doug: [in Hawaiian shirt] Ooh, suddenly I am very calm, thank you.
First we have to take a look at the state of Marvel Studios, and briefly talk about how we got here. I’m going to be drawing from two sources here, one is the excellent “Story of marvel studios'' by Tara bennent, which is kind of like the Disney authorized version of the studio’s history, and the other book is the upcoming reign of marvel studios, buy Joanna robinson, Dave Gonzales, and Gavin edwards-this book is great, and gets a little bit more into what’s happened in the studio after avengers endgame.
I covered some of this information in our recent wtf happened to a secret invasion video-so if you saw that video, don’t worry, I’m gonna talk about some new information too. I have to talk about the history of this studio and how they do things, because that’s the only way to understand if their method can still work in the future.
First you have to understand that marvel studios has always operated differently from every other studio in hollywood. Normally, a screenwriter writes a screenplay, a studio buys it, it enters pre production, storyboarding, animatics, production, and post. That process takes a long time. But marvel has created all sorts of shortcuts so we can, say, get a new captain america movie every two years.
Doug: ooh, what are these shortcuts?
Well, with iron man, they entered production without a finished script-which suited John Favreau's indie, improvisational style. But, visual effects take a really long time to create-so they pre-planned action sequences and wrote the script around those. Marvel called this visual development-and this is how they made pretty much every film after 2010. Director Lucretia Martel even said she turned down Black widow because they told her not to worry about the action sequences-because they were pre-planned in advance.
So in a weird way, Marvel had evolved into a giant TV show. You see on most TV shows, the producers have total control of the creative, and the directors are more day players brought in to execute their vision. IN films, it's the opposite. Which is ironic, for reasons we’ll talk about in a bit.
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So actually, Marvel Studios’ process of creating the visuals before the words-was also a hallmark of the early marvel comics. Stan Lee was editing several books, so he would tell visionary artists like Jack Kirby and Steve ditko his ideas, then they would create the stories so Stan Lee could fill in the word bubbles.
So this became the template for marvel studios, basically after the avengers. There are exceptions to this like Guardians of the galaxy. Guardians 1 came about because marvel staff writer, nicole perlman, championed the characters, and wrote several drafts of the screenplay. Then James Gunn came in, made it a very James Gunn film-and ever since then, he has written the scripts before the storyboards and visual effects were prepped. So he is one of the rare exceptions.
But this is how Marvel is able to give us massive films like civil war, infinity war, and endgame in such short time periods. But what’s most important is that this worked because we loved the characters, and the creatives behind the films love the characters too. And the entire franchise was anchored by the charm of Robert Downey Jr’s Tony Stark [clip]. 
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Killing off Iron Man was a bad Endgame.
Get over yourself importance of this channel already will you ? The mcu will survive long after this channel is long gone.
I just can’t believe people approved these scripts and shows
Fyi, just heard Ryan on Preston and Steve, again. Love that Ryan chats with them from time to time! Guessing Ryan is from the Philly area? If so, more bonus points for him! I think I like this channel more than New Rockstars now... I mean, I love Erik Voss too, he's cool, but that channel sort of seemed to have sold out a bit. I'll still watch Voss, but, I think I like Ryan more now!! 💯
Quantity over quality, hubris over what made the characters and stories great to begin with and virtue signaling will kill any empire!
Werewolf by Night special is an excellent example of what D+ should continue trying
And Moon Knight
@@khonshugodofthenightsky2159moonknight isnt that good.
@@lead6186 Have there been any enjoyable D+ marvel shows? Edit: I forgot about Loki I enjoyed that one.
@@Lustratic85 WandaVision and Loki. Mr. Short Term Memory.
Werewolf by Night gets so overlooked and it was awesome imo
I think I would be considered a die hard MCU fan, but that Secret Invasion Finale is the first time I actually thought to myself that the MCU is dead... so yeah I think we're there.
If you excused Quantimania & secret invasion is what did it for you then….they’ll get you back, no prob
oh what, you didnt see she-hulk? you didnt watch ms marvel? you didnt watch Dr strange 2 or Thor 4? This is far from the first loss, and I don't need your permission to watch, thanks!@@dylan15243
how did you survive she-hulk?
@@pbbThe Falcon and the Winter Soldier did it for me. Most tone-deaf ending speech I've ever seen in any fictional property.
Truly love the camaraderie between all my favorite channels. Even if there aren't collabs or anything, I truly appreciate that this space does not come across with any toxicity. The nods to each other from time to time make me appreciate them individually so much more.
For me it's always about the story first, no matter which studio makes the film. Followed by immersion into that world's rule set. Then the bonus comes if there's a well known character in that movie. I'll enjoy a movie/tv show if it has the first element, then any of the following two. Otherwise I feel let down.
Puss in boots 2 being the perfect example
I agree, there's no superhero fatigue, just mid fatigue.
If we get more like Guardian3 or Peacemaker we'll all be holding hands singing the disney praises.
Disney? But peacemaker is dc..
Praise gunn
Peacemaker isn't Disney or Marvel, keep up.
In Gunn we trust 🙏
I totally agree.! Superhero fatigue is a total cop out! I’d love to get a D+ show every month if the writing wasn’t so lame and boring. Cut back on the CGI and bring in some awesome cinematographers like they had on the daredevil show
@@Purrrpleobviously he probably knows that
💔 if they didn’t rush projects to fulfill their own roster of shows in competition of other streaming platforms, we’d have lesser shows but greater ones
fewer *
How is that same strategy working out for apple?
I agree, but, with respect, you may want to edit that to say we get "less" , bc your point is already that we are getting "lesser" which means worse, not less than we are getting. Other than that, I do agree. But I'll take any MCU I can get honestly.
@@alexcastillo8507not so badly. Ted Lasso, Shrinking, Severance, The Morning Show, and plenty of other really great shows along with a lot of good movies as well.
@@alexcastillo8507huh? AppleTV has had a surprisingly large number of great shows
If the big superhero brands want to make GREAT movies again, use Joker as the example, a STANDALONE movie that focuses on the main character and doesn’t try to force cameos or setup other projects. If you want to avoid making bad movies, then look at Ant-Man 3 or Black Adam, 2 movies that focus way too much on trying to set up future projects and don’t care about making their own movie unique and interesting.
The MCU managed to balance both solo movies with cameos in a great way, but that ended once the Endgame credits rolled.
Gotg 3 did a good job of that. It was just about the Guardians and didn't juggle 5 plots at once and didn't feature cameos from half the mcu.
Even joker had that awkward forced Bruce Wayne cameo
I think John Boyega would be great playing as Kang to replace Jonathan Majors if things don't work out in his favor.
There were rumors last year around D23 Expo time last year that John Boyega was in talks to play a younger Kang variant and Denzel Washington an older Kang variant.
I agree he'd be good in the role. I loved Majors' performances so far, but I'd be excited to see John Boyega in the role.
Majors is confirmed to be staying, and he sounds innocent from what I heard.
Yes
I thought that Jonathan Major's trial hadn't even started, but he says he's convicted?
What about innocent until proven guilty?
Get great writers, get great actors, and give us great films. It's no longer an "if you make it they will watch" genre.
And let’s be honest you guys are a huge part of this because your theories raise expectations that are never met
I've said the same before, people know too much about the universe now so they can predict where it's going and how it's going to do that. When it doesn't do what's expected or misses people over hate on it.
@@Sergiblacklist...and when they hit the expectations it's too obvious. You can't win today, everyone's a critic nowadays.
@@morpork-jj2wi we just have to switch off and enjoy sometimes just like we did with top gun maverick
A HUGE part of it lolol I HAVE NEVER EVER heard any of the leading “geek/theory/insider/fan” streamer admit to their part of this shit
In fact, ALOT of the very obscure and mediocre content based around side kicks and tertiary characters comes from the studios LISTENING to y’all clamor for these “weird” stories lolol
@@morpork-jj2wiexactly you can't win with these people, they'll always complain about something even if it's good,those type of videos get views
Yep, you just crushed it! Awesome sum up of, not just Marvel, but all modern day franchises, this is why I love your channel, fair, unbiased, non click bait reviews and discussion. I truly believe you are one of the most important channels on RUclips, keep up the great work! (No pressure 😅)
very good video ryan, you are really honing your informative & compelling style with this kind of video, please keep it up!
anyway, i love your jokes too your humor is something that sets you apart on here so maybe add a bit more of that etc into these videos (maybe work them into the information too), i know you could do it well and your videos would be unmatched. They're already unique & i love how you take things too far, its really the primary reason i watch your channel but there are a multitude of channels with a lot of similar topics and i know if you went a bit heavier on the funny there'd never be a reason to go somewhere else, ya know..?
I feel like the Russo Brothers were better at making crossovers. I don’t really understand why they haven’t had any real crossovers either in the shows or movies with Sam as Captain America or as you mentioned Shang Chi. It was cool to see Wong in a bunch of projects but I want more. It doesn’t have to be endgame level but I want to see at least winter soldier level.
It's about to start already. We're in the middle of the saga still. The Marvels is going to be the first movie to cross over with a newcomer from D+
@@alexism9656 .
I’m still mad at the Russos for bungling Hulk.
@@alexism9656 It should've been in a avengers film, but whatever.
@@proto245 I think it's better if an Avengers film had all the newcomers cross over
I think one of their major problems is the lead in times. There will be movies and shows that are so far along that they won't be able to adapt to the lessons of their recent output. So for at least a year, and possibly more because of the strikes, we are going to get more shows and movies that are going to be bad. And if that's the case, there will be more people turning off, and they will be harder to win back
I think their best bet/plan would be to finish struggling through the Multiverse Saga and then (almost) completely reboot the MCU starting in Phase 7.
Secret Wars sets up a new universe that has all the characters from the start. If they take their time to tell the stories that *need* the time, make the stories and characters engaging and entertaining with decent writing, and not only plan things out and be able to adapt but also communicate more between projects so that they can avoid mistakes and "weird" choices, they *could* be okay.
Yea it's not that it's over hyped and spoiled by content creators.
All they need to do is put one show between each film- that connects directly into the next feature. It’s called SYNERGY.
Awesome as always! Have a thought on an idea for a video or even a series of videos. What about a status update on all the heroes and villains in the MCU currently. Where is everyone? Who’s around? Who’s retired? Who’s dead? Would not be an easy list but could be interesting to look at. 😊
Thank you for your ability to look critically at a story that may not have been told well without ever being a dick about it. I appreciate being able to like something that may not have been the best while still being able to shine a light on why it might not have worked well, and this channel is always super good at that.
I think he's too negative personally. He invites people on to hate on shows instead of praise them.
No, some of his negativity regarding this show hasn't been very well-thought out. In other videos, he's gone on diatribes about the hospital scenes. He expected the President of a major country to be taken to a busy hospital where regular citizens would be taken. He also mistakenly claimed that a patient with internal injuries shouldn't be moved in his bed (which he mistakenly called a gurney, which is different from a hospital bed) but rather in a wheelchair, even though moving him in a hospital bed is the EXACT thing that would be done.
@@blaze556922lmfao
Werewolf by Night, Moonknight, and Loki are proof Disney+ can be done well
Exclude moonknight
Loki sucked
@@diegokeyz219my opinion is it was the best marvel show
@@jimtoujo3996 you’re allowed to feel that way and I respect it
Moon knight was ass cheeks. Skipped the final fight scene and whole climax. Didn’t make sense in the final episode. It felt as if it was hold back.
They need to do two 12 episode seasons (Andor-style) set during The Blip. They could do it super cheap (no superheroes) very street-level, following like a family and a few other individuals, covering the reality of what actually happened during that time.
The fact that they've just skipped over all that and just referenced it jokingly, "my cat died" guy from Multiverse, is a disservice to a huge and interesting time period and situation they created.
Sure, it could have similarities to other things where people disappear or reappear, but most of those don't cover both.
How was the world told what happened? Were there people that blamed the superheroes for failing to stop the blip? What happened when people had moved on from those lost, only for them to reappear? So much interesting stuff just hand waved away.
Soooo true! There are myriads of shoes and movies I don’t watch because of the info overload - I just read smth about them and/or watch videos like yours, explaining what was happening and how it is connected to everything else
Marvel is far from dead! They’ve barley scratch the surface of the wider marvel universe with X-Men and Fantastic Four, though they definitely need to give more quality to their work creative freedom with their directors and staff, push out the saga, maybe more special presentations 50 minute stories that focus on main characters and the setting that have no filler and get right to the point!
I think the part of the challenge here is that the wheels were already spinning in the wrong direction at such a break neck speed, they haven’t had the chance to actually redirect. So we’re witnessing a car crash in action. But there is another side to this.
I think Marvel Studios' biggest mistake is when phase 4 and 5 started being a less connected MCU. In phase 1-3, each film gave a sense of a linear, connected universe with easter eggs, foreshadowing, cameos, and mid credits scenes that hinted of what was to come. This is more important than people think. It gave us an exciting sense of what possibilities were to come and ignited lots of discussion. Starting in phase 4, this went away. Films and TV shows are more isolated and have many unresolved side stories. Marvel has said they wanted to introduce new characters and stories, which is fine. But it should have been done in a more MCU connected style so fans could continue that discussion and theory-crafting. Also, side point... I totally agree the exec interference (*cough* Bob Chapek *cough), played a huge role in the current issues. Because of the increased workload of Disney+, which Chapek was pushing for, some VPs like Victoria Alonzo, former head of VFX, were pressured into going quicker, which shifted tremendous pressure on third parties that Marvel worked with for VFX, which led to the reported complaints about those workers being overworked and not given enough time.
I mean they're definitely still foreshadowing stuff, it's just the teases are further down the line. Shan-Chi's ending was clearly connected to whatever is going to happen in the Marvels, Spider-Man setup an MCU symbiote that we'll see god knows when, Eternals teases Black Knight and Blade which is really far out, Dr Strange keeps flirting with the idea of Wiccan and Speed coming but they're still kids, Thor L&T sets up Knull kind of, Black Panther 2 teased Ironheart, Ant-Man gave us a first look at Kang and Guardians 3 sets up the new Guardians team who we'll see god knows when.
And that's only the movies. They're not teasing the direct next thing, but they are still teasing exciting things if you've read the comics and know what sort of storyline they are setting up.
I think if anything the failing with phase 4 and 5 is the lack of unity between the actors. Putting just two big avengers movies at the end of phase six was a problem. There should have been one at the end of phase 4 where we see some of these new characters connect and meet up. Everyone just exists inside their own streams right now and everything feels so isolated compared to the cohesion of the first three phases. We still theoretically have this Avengers team that exists, but we haven't seen them interact in so long now.
Yes there are tidbit storylines they've planted but the current phases are way less linears. There's too many open stories so far. Shang-Chi did setup something but we still don't know what. Avengers Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars are supposed to close out the multiverse saga. But where's there just hasn't been that much build up to establish, not only Kang as a big bad, but also the Avengers roster and any mid-level or side conflicts. The connected storytelling is definitely not as polished as the Infinity Saga was.@@Zynnix
"Let the past die, KILL IT if you HAVE TO."
Despite the quote's questionable implications, Kylo Ren's right; the MCU has become incredibly unwieldy and created too many continuity problems, not to mention unsatisfying setups and revelations (Rava is Rhodey all along during Endgame? Urrgh...) The only way to save this struggling universe from itself is to get rid of all the mess since 2008 and start anew, probably with Secret Wars.
Great take! The fact that it is talked about so much shows it's not dead. I personally enjoy the new content and on top of that I have had family members tell me that they appreciate the new shows after your videos on them. :) Plus anyone that talks through their dog is ok in my book.
definitely not dead.. not everyone's going to love every project, just like not everyone loves every comic/comic event the same way.
I also think it's the way they won't admit they made something that wasn't well reviewed or received by fans. Always some director or producer saying somehow it's the fans fault for high expectations, or we just didn't understand the story line. I understand expectations are hard to live up to, but all the rag magazine news sites that make fake wild accusations to drum up attention to them. It hurts it as a whole.
Lol, the Colton cut ins and Ryan’s increasing anger at them are great 😂
I will always love the OG animated Clone Wars … they were so much fun and told so much story in such quick shots. Thanks for including that C-3PO clip 🥂
Incredibly well thought-out, interesting and profound video, felt more like an essay. I agree with your points, lately I have thought that we would come to this eventually. Similar to the comics, where there is an audience for each title, not everybody reads everything that goes into print each week. I for one, am a super X-Men fan and so I only read the X-related books, simply because I AM NOT INTERESTED in the other Marvel titles. And then, from time to time, I would read one of the crossovers or maybe a critically acclaimed title that becomes a classic. Something like this is bound to happen with the MCU. I mean, it is obvious not everyone is gonna like everything MCU related (even though the suits would love for that to happen, and in their attempt, the movies become more formulaic and basically the same, which gets boring).
Honestly Ryan & Team: this might be one of your best videos you've done. Brilliant summation and ability to look at both sides.
I honestly got emotional listening to the "why" we love these properties so much.
When he got to act III, I started feeling like this might be one of the best video essays ever made.
Get a room lolol
@@DHClappyou need to watch more content
Seriously, I watch a lot of video essays and this is up there. Thanks Ryan and team!
@@drewbooo wow, now that a no one like you said it, on behalf of the internet, thank you.
Thank you for telling us how you, a complete stranger feels.
Incredible
One thing that they are missing from their formula....A movie Introducing a character and then a team-up movie. This really gave the MCU cohesion. After Endgame...All that is shown is an Avenger Level power vacuum. We have a ton of new kids waiting for their shot...but they need more training and team-ups with OG Avengers or mentors. I mean Fury has so much info/intel available...why didn't he bring some kids in on SI to combat Super Skrulls. I mean he should know the weakness/counter to each power a Super Skrull should have.
Oddly though- I don't mind the weird one of Dis+ Shows. Have some fun and get weird- maybe throw a few easter eggs in it or have the character learn some gem and apply it in a future movie action sequence.
"Colton shut the fuck up I'm making art!"
Absolutely killed me with that line 🤣
I loved last years Moon Night and Werewolf by Night so a few duds isn't worrying me.
I see Phase 4 as Phase 1 on a bigger scale. Marvel is introducing these new characters and worlds, using them as seeds for future stories. It just requires PATIENCE
The problem is that Phase 1 atleast didn't feel cheaply made, have logic and plot holes and had great character development(even In their mid movies) and great quality. Unlike now where most Projects feel Soulless and cheap and shittly written.
@@RogueSquadron80phase 4 made more money than phase 1 and 2 soo people actually care
@@Iletyouliveyou compare a newly made Universe with mainly unknown to the big public characters,with the biggest already established movie universe of all time that the current state of MCU is.Phase 1 was attracting more and more people, while phase 4 push away more and more people. Right now they may have more viewers than phase 1,but in this rhythm they'll soon have less maybe. Also, Phase 4 has much more projects running than the 5-6 films that Phase 1 had. You compare 6 projects with 15 projects. Obviously the 15 projects will make more money.
It also requires decent writers.
They have a doc about Lucas and Spielberg and them, Fog City Mavericks. They mention how Creedence Clearwater Revival got their name.
If you had to guess, you would prob'ly think that CCR was from somewhere down south, I feel Louisiana; but CCR is actually from El Cerrito California, in the Bay Area just touching Berkeley.
Their high school is 20 mins from me.
That intro to the ad was hilarious 😂
This was a fantastic video definitely worth a thumbs up. I was not introduced to Star Wars as a child, and never really "got it" and I would just explain to people that I had no connection. This video helps me to expand on those thoughts and rationalize them in a way that I just haven't given it the thought to do so. Coltons interjections actually made me laugh out loud. I love that bit.
The interactions between Colton and Ryan are pricelessss 👌
Love it. I agree in spirit and the facts back you up: anticipation is a stronger reward system than satisfied hunger. You hit the nail on the head about the evolving audience. Anticipating and criticizing MCU shows and films is an authentic audience experience. The studios can and should build on that.
But the suits can’t get out of the way totally. Too many creatives lose focus or cancel themselves in creative self-doubt. That’s a money pit. And there has to be room for new audiences, and that means the MCU cannot feel like homework. Suits can help with that. They have ADHD too.
Blending the established fan base with the new audience is the key. That means more focus on fewer central characters, and simpler tie-ins to the range of events and other characters percolating in the multiverse.
Your take on blending (1) great writers writing and (2) studios ready to scale consistently amazing action sequences is the way forward.
You’re also right that letting the comrades of anti-capitalism take over is a death sentence. But blending them in critically is a deep well of insight and self-awareness.
Core characters and the overarching saga-level writing can take the whole middle class culture that the MCU feeds on down some great pathways, and no one else has the tools and earned social capital to do it.
Do it, MCU.
You are the best!!! Amazing content said and done perfectly. Exploring everything and keeping everything interesting. That is why watch screen crush people!!!!
There can be franchise killers, but a big factor in the ones that made it that you mentioned was time. Seems like if you let enough time go by the hostility dies down enough that you can then reinvent. But if you keep cramming in 'reminders' that just pushes that back
I actually agree I want a break and I’m
taking one regardless of whether or not Marvel and DC keeps giving shows. See I don’t have to watch and at this point I’m not going to.
I think a problem that no one talks about is the fact that I can't go see marvel movies with my friends anymore. It's always, " I have not seen any of the shows and none of the new movies, I can't watch this one"
Encourage them to start watching
I tend to agree. My biggest gripe is the stories are not self-contained. You have to watch movies and shows to understand what's going on in the movie you're watching. I didn't need to see every movie in the MCU to enjoy Black Panther. It stands by itself. But now (for example) I can't properly understand Quantumania without first seeing Loki and even Multiverse of Madness.
I personally wouldn't recommend my friends to watch most of them tbh 😅
Disney+ shows is where my friends stopped watching/caring and they were hardcore fans.
It's hard to see the third film of any trilogy and feel connected. But Shang-Chi was the first film, and also The Eternals. They're both good films to see, if your friends want to jump in at the beginning of a franchise.
Touche, dude. This is one of your best. Thanks for keeping us sharp.
This was a really good deep dive. I appreciate the level of analysis and fan psychology you endeavored to cover. Kudos @screencrush
Secret Invasion is actually really good. It didn't deserve to flop, And it honestly feels like the old MCU, It's more dark and serious. I wish Secret Invasion had 88% and She-Hulk had 55%
I'm for believing something you like should have a higher rating, but you don't need to do so by attacking something you didn't. Let people enjoy the things they like.
@@spamwise249I respect opinions, Don't worry.
Some people might like the tone but the problem with the series when it comes to storyline and direction. It's really poor considering the massive budget of this series alone
Great perspectives. I'm holding hope this was the wake-up call era Disney needed to get their hands out of Marvel's way
Hey @ScreenCrush, I've got a theory for where Disney is going. In Loki, the sacred timeline is a loop, a loop essentially are two ends merging together, with one being the past's beginning and the other the future's conclusion meeting in the present.
The future's conclusion is the killing of He-Who-Remains in Loki. With his death the "future creation" of the sacred timeline is allowed to unravel.
But what actually unravels the timeline?
I think the second event is the "death" of Kang the Conqueror in Ant-Man 3 (which are concurrent I suppose, since both events take place outside of the flow of time). Kang is flung within the possibility field where all his time-traveling variants are formed and escape into the multiverse, "fraying" the timeline with concurrent invasions of multiple points in time and acting as the precursor, or, the past's beginning.
May be your best video yet! Well done.
Actually, I rather liked Moon Knight. And while it was a bit dragged out - only finding out who was doing the actual bloody killings at the end - I rather enjoyed how it made the Gods involvement, from hearing and seeing Taweret (that is NOT the voice I ever imagined her having!) rather than it all being given it that was Steven/Marc's imagination. Or a form of his psychoses.
I liked it way more than Falcon and Winter Soldier, which was the series I was expecting to love.
Not to mention,an Oscar worthy performance (no pun intended)by Oscar Isaac himself that manages to give the series more mature tone.
Yeah moon knight was good
moon knight was not good. not only did it fundamentally change moon knight to the point that hes basically an original character, but it had some of the biggest plot holes in the entire mcu, and it really showed its lack of budget at several points. compare it to something with a similar premise but better execution (like legion on fx) and it totally falls apart
Hindsight is 20/20, I'm hoping that down the line we can look back at phase 4-6 and everything connects.
Awesome video, Ryan!! I like to look at it like reading comics. There were always some titles you didn’t like, either because of the art, who was doing the writing at the time or just because it wasn’t your cup of tea. I look at the movies the same way, as one big comic rack.
Great video! The MCU is definitely not dead. As you said there's so much story potential they can explore in time. They're slowly starting to pump the brakes too so they can focus on quality over quantity, as Bob Iger recently said. There have been duds recently but each project has good aspects. Like with Star Wars, people will watch what they like and skip out on what they don't.
Why does it seem whenever the MCU uses a show that could set up so much for the future everyone cries and complains instead of looking at the future as a whole???
The quality of the product matters more than the future. Low quality products make people think the future will be the same. Although I really been liking MCU lately, i see where ppl r coming from
The show is garbage. Just cause it's a commercial don't mean we should love itm
The show sucked
So the shows are 5 hour commercials for future projects, and we should love them?
Most issues Ive had with shows like these
1) They suck
2) Setting things up is good, but damn so many things ive been set up its overwhelming
3) It still feels disconnected from the rest
Nah, AM3: They said it’s dead, GotG3: they said it’s safed, SI: they say it’s dead.
It’ll stay as the constant that it is and will continue, shapeshifters will love-hate anyway, depending on the product.
Well, marvel better stop this one good movie then one shit movie mindset and start delivering then.
Superhero movies in general have been through that since they were made. Good adaptation, then bad one, then good one, then bad one, over and over again. Like when they went from keatons batman to clooney then bale.
@@vineetdesai6396 I see you, but box office wise it would be
MoM:Profit,
Wakanda:Profit,
AM3: 24 Mill from breaking even, not that big of a flop
GotG3:Profit
SI:disliked
So yeah. By now it happened one time like this, looking at it subjectively might seem otherwise
@@edrrrk I see you too, that’s correct.
I mean Phase 1-3 wasn’t always perfect, but I love it the way it is, same with this saga.
Even when I watched she-hulk and thor4 (that’s my less good options so far) I had moments were I had fun.
Depends on writer/director as well Doh
@@_TheViewer_ Fast and furious, Harry potter, Star Wars and the shitty Disney remakes were all rulers of the box office too and what happened to them? Fast and furious and Harry Potter and star Wars (Fantastic beasts couldnt even make profit) are irrelevant, and with the Little mermaid Flopping it's only a matter of time the others join and as for the current phase and phase 1-3 atleast the earlier phases had good quality, good or competent writing and good character development and had the advantage of being in a time when superhero movies were at their peak.
To be honest, after Burton's Batman, the Roger Corman Fantastic 4 in the 90s was absolutely doomed because it looked like Adam West 30 years too late. Roger literally could have made that film in the 60s and 70s and it would have still been fresh
I think another problem for the shows is the time length. Hbo shows and other shows are like 50 minutes or so, but so many marvel shows are 30 minutes maybe 40 minutes. So the pacing is off, the start of the shows have long episodes and slow start but when the shows need longer episodes in the middle and end, they're shorter and rushed
I also liked Quantumania, so there's at least two of us.
The MCU was due for a few flops but just like in this video, I think this will help the MCU in the long run. The MCU makes too much money for Disney to give up on so soon, they just need to focus on quality over quantity, pay their actors and writers, and let the actual creatives handle the reigns instead of execs who haven't even seen a comic book.
Very insightful video Ryan. I appreciate it.
I also love Doug. So good with his gimmicks.
Like always, Sxreencrush has some great points. I think it's worth noting that fewer people are interested in some of the more fantastical stuff coming out of or left over in the MCU, ever increasing ticket prices, and the ability to have a cinematic experience at home with good content from a plethora of streaming services are also factors in the decline of movies in general, and the appeal of the MCU specifically. Many people are happy waiting to see a movie at home on their 75" for a much lower cost per movie.
The biggest thing people forget is that Phase Four is really Phase 1 v2. We have more connectivity than we did in phase 1, but people seem to forget what we had because of what we got in Phase 3.
While true, Phase Four isn't _exactly_ like Phase One as Phase Four had Disney+ shows, it was a mixture of starting and continuing stories (where Phase One mainly was set up for The Avengers), and Phase Four had more content than all of the Infinity Saga combined.
@@ThatGuy-jj3kz that's why I said it's Phase 1 v2
I totally agree. People are spoiled now.
@@kylecarter1599 imo (and this is slightly off-topic), without an Avengers film to close a phase (or be near the end of a phase), the concept of phases post-Infinity Saga becomes meaningless without an Avengers film. Phase One was focused on setting and leading up to the end of Phase One, but with Phase Four, that can't happen because there's nothing for the movies and shows to set and lead up except the end of Phase Six.
For Phase Four to be Phase 1 v2, it _needed_ to end or lead up to an Avengers film in Phase Four.
Bro we’re in phase 5 right now and still are going nowhere the mcu fell off
I don’t really like the apologist narrative that we should keep waiting. We are thoroughly in the 2nd phase since Endgame, and it seems like there are several story arcs but nothing is really defined. It's a bit sad, that they are blowing their budgets on these poorly written stories.
I guess its less apologist with a "they know what they're doing/they can fix this" type of thinking, and more optimistic in the "they fucked up, current mcu sucks, but they're bound to fix themselves if they wanna survive" way
@@rainydeestar It leans super optimistic. But there are some contradictions. Like the execs knowing they messed up. But we’ve heard that they are blaming fans and/or fatigue for the lackluster excitement for MCU projects.
Will they course correct? We see how they are stonewalling the strikers. Imagine talking to an exec that doesn't have the pressure of several unions making their grievances heard.
I feel like we don't even need to go as far back as this video suggests to see this pattern. It's a lot like Phase 2 of MCU itself with great movies like Winter Soldier and GotG 1, along with some very very low to mid movies like IM3, Dark World and AoU. Then they course corrected into Phase 3 and 4. We could very well just be in Phase 2 Part 2 at this point haha
@@GoTron88 I agree. But maybe it was the lack of movies that made it okay. We are currently getting a lot of content and most of it is either mid or bad.
A nice surprise was the holiday specials. There’s zero pressure to try to connect them to other stories and it was just fun, well-executed content.
Meanwhile "Refeeling our childhood" - this was the failure of Last Jedi. We wanted to re-live our childhood, Johnson (and his supporters) believed we should destroy our childhood. "I let go of childish things" as Paul writes in one of the Epistles. And fans rejected it...and then the actual Universe of Star Wars did because he left his successor absolutely nothing to build any story on.
Mandalorian (seasons 1,2) worked because they both made us feel kids again, taking characters through adventures, and also lived up to be the "saturday matinee" dream that Lucas originally wanted: short, weekly, serial adventures like the Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon of his own childhood.
Nothing about The Last Jedi made me want to grab my old figures, or even the new legos, and start playing again.
Disney MCU doesn’t take TV shows seriously . They treat it like 5 hour movie rather than a TV show
Essentially, the MCU has 5 projects that they need to not miss on: Deadpool 3, Daredevil season 3, Blade, Fantastic 4, and The X-Men. If they miss on these then they might as well pack it up!
Disney still in charge so they will😂
They already messed up X-men by changing the title to mutants, you know, because of DIVERSITY.
The obsession and expectation of the need to go bigger eveytime breaks franchises, seen in the fast series and older james bond. I do not like the endgame movie because of this and like the individual movies and series better. I do not know the comics, and liked most of secret invasion (except over the top end fight), I loved moonknight wherewolf by knight, ms marvel, arrow and love that they continue the Netflix Dardevil serie . It is the expectations and speculatioms that overhype and kill the mood. It is still 100x better tgan any cw soap.
@@dariuschisholm7317 disney was incharged since 2009
This is the best video you’ve ever done (and I love your videos). It’s such an excellent critical analysis not only of the MCU, but all movies, franchises, and things we enjoy. Top tier stuff!
I agree with your insights in the video. With the actor's and writers' strikes continuing there is going to be a major gap in film and TV starting in the fall. With your knowledge of comic books and graphic novels, would you consider doing an episode of recommended reading of titles you think will be the future of film and TV?
Reminds me of a quote from the best live action Marvel Character
"Mother F@ckas always tryin to ice skate uphill!"
5:50 I STILL GET CHILLS WATCHING IT!! That was such a freaking epic moment!!!!!!!
Anyone who remembers resident evil six it almost killed the franchise and go for a rough midlife crisis basically it’s like the MCU was going through right now.
my all time favorite moment in cinema. ive never cheered in a movie before but I did with that scene.
This is a great video. Seems like a really insightful look at things with Marvel. And the comparisons with franchise killers in other movie series is novel. As is the way you brought in the change in comics from the 60s to the 70s. Probably your best video so far 🙂
The MCU needs to be cohesive again. More properties that don't feel connected by much has been one of its downfall. Also, they started more projects but did not expand their production capacity, or at least not enough to match the projects, so everything don't feel and look as polished anymore.
There's no superhero fatigue. People just don't like mediocre products.
A couple takeaways for me: a) if superhero movies die and story centered auteur driven dramas surface like they did in the 70s that’d be great for the industry. B) if marvel falls off but James Gunn’s DCU succeeds because he cares deeply about the comics and is invested in storytelling that’d be great for superhero movies and we’d get some awesome content. C) if marvel somehow learns the right lessons in the wake of recent lackluster box office numbers and is forced to take care of the creatives behind these projects due to the strike that’d be great for all of us and the MCU could keep going as it has been.
I think we forget how dull phase 2 seemed and yet they still pulled it off. There’s too much money on the table for Disney not to find a way to pull this out. If capitalism is good for anything it’s good at getting the proletariat to pay for shit we don’t really need. They just need to understand that we value character development and storytelling. Even after secret invasion, it’s still too early to tell.
THANK YOU Ryan for this excellent piece AND for acknowledging the ‘great expectations’ of the theorists & commentators like yr very good self…
the MCU is so very meta - which is what i loved about She-Hulk, what i fkn love about Deadpool and what gives The Boys its wry smile standout within the genre - the irony of this metadom is that RUclipsrs are now, wittingly or not, influencing in real-time the media narrative, exalting THEIR OWN versions of what films & TV shows and their filmmakers, showrunners & screenwriters shld be delivering… instead of deep diving into hidden easter eggs & comic book references which was all fun & brilliant
it’s like when the Fast franchise went into space… it’s just a big fat NOOOOOO!!!!
❌⛔️❌👎🏼
do what you used to do which was enhance the experience of our fave superhero properties…
if these folk think they can make better IPs… then GO MAKE MOVIES, PRODUCE YOUR OWN TV SHOWS but stop spoiling what’s existing with over-hyped, misguided story arcs & cameo pillow talk… cos it’s often wrong and audiences are then disappointed having been Pied Pipered over the cliff edge on Vormir
i think many of yr compadres wld do well to watch your superb opinion piece and go have a ponder on their own culpability…
Agree with youv100%. Leaks and crazy theories create unrealistic expectations.
I just hope for it to remain popular enough to keep being made, since I have enjoyed pretty much everything in phase 4 to varying amounts. As long as I get to keep enjoying it that's the most important part for me
The suits need to step away and they need to bring in passionate people who are very immersed in comics for a long time like you Ryan! Because you guys have so much knowledge and grasp of understanding of not only plot but the character and we need to remember there can be stories told but the character is the heart and it’s what will always translate! Making movies and shows like Iron Man and WandaVision where it’s so creative and not leaning towards parody or self aware but truly cinematic and full of heart! And there’s heart!!! From everyone on set because it’s something they believe in truly all as a team I think that’s really important than to hire people who are great names but have no knowledge or truly compassion to want to learn and love the work! RYAN THEY NEED YOU
You are so spot on with Star Wars prequels and pro wrestling. You’re insight is unparalleled and funny 😂
Love your marvel videos! ❤
IF LOKI SEASON 2 IS NOT GREAT THAN YES THE MCU WILL DEFINITELY DIE SCREENCRUSH
I don't know why corporate always thinks they have the right answers. Seems like every time corporate decides to get involved things always get worse for everyone else.
I find it funny that the MCU now has a similar feel as comics for people new to them - Some stories or parts feel like homework , there are specific “must watch/read” and “skippable” ones and it’s to the point where both have plot lines that lead nowhere or become convoluted with no real answer
Great analysis! Looking forward to the Barbie/Oppenhiemer video essay.
I'm very curious to how folks will react to the Marvels movie. I think this will be the first time D+ TV show lead characters will main cast in a movie.
The MCU needed to do a soft reboot after Endgame to give the fans a sense of "break" in relation to story telling. It's like they were split on what they wanted to do with this phase. Some movies and shows felt genuine with smaller stakes and focusing on smaller stories like they did in the beginning of phase 1. Then some other movies and shows felt like they were rushing this overarching story of the multiverse. Not everything was on the same page and the fatigue started to set in really badly because of it. It's hard to keep up with everything at this point and know what is important and what isn't to the overall plot.
I mean a soft reboot can work I mean after secret wars do you remember when Mortal Kombat nine rebirth the franchise and video games an anime TV show is done properly.
I do not have trouble keeping up. I guess it depends on which fans are involved.
I think this may be one of your very best essays. Well done.
Ryan! You’re effin brilliant, dude! Keep the killer analyses and commentary comin!
Thank you for explaining why I remember only scenes from all of the Marvel & Star Wars (sans Mando 1&2) content I have watched post End Game as opposed to an actual flushed out story. Interesting to hear that they write the scenes and then fill in the story later (and in a hurry). Unfortunately I am bored and tired of the story-less junk and I am staying away from Marvel and Star Wars (and DC) until they start telling compelling stories again.
I think now it’s a hard task to incorporate all the other teams (Fantastic 4, X-Men) and explain where have they been this whole time.
Be more patient and they will explain it.
Excellent video! Great perspective on the historic parallels.
This is an excellent analysis! Props to the research team.
Samuel Jackson was amazing. So was Don Cheadle. The problem was they did not embrace the spy thriller genre. If they changed some scenes around like the shower scene, then it would be better. If they showed more backstories, for instance, actually show the killing of first victim. Really changing the scenes would help. I also don't like how the main villains are killed so easily. Need more development of characters.
Yes. But a thing isn't beautiful because it lasts. It's a privilege to experience this universe.
Really good point about the Disney+ Plus shows. Every episode would end with cliffhangers & questions; never having at least a modicum of resolution in anything which should happen with every episode in good TV.
Sir, this is my absolute FAVORITE video of yours ever done. Wisdom. Thank you.
Just like the Eternarls i think Secret invasion was really meant to introduce new things!
Ryan, your erudite adroit commentary and summations of and on, not only the MCU (or the cinema industry as a whole) never fail to impress; as they, most often, are an holistic examination of the art of story telling in and across all mediums.
I think it is an innocent and partial point of view, the movies became bad because they chose to focus on characters and diversity instead of creating worlds and good stories, it happened to Game of Thrones when they had to write the scripts, and it happened to the Parallel program of The Witcher, there is no fandom that can put up with 3 bad movies, let alone 10 shows
I love the “Colton, shut the f*** up” 😂😂😂
It’s just great lmao
...and Colton is so chill about it. 😂
I liked Secret Invasion. I remember 30 years ago when the idea of any of these comics being on screen was a complete dream... we are just spoiled now.
🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯
Exactly. Not everything can be Winter Soldier or Infinity War. It would be nice if they focus on quality instead of quantity though.
Is the MCU Dead?
Well... Nop!
It's taken some body shots
kinder yes?
No
MCU has been dead even before Secret Invasion. Secret Invasion is DOA.
Ryan, fantastic breakdown, it felt like a thesis, I was worried your recent sour of marvel would make this video feel a violent angry mob, but its very balanced, nuanced and practicly thought out, I think the best proof is how you expain the same stages of comics own up and down.