The MCU vs the SNYDER VERSE: Why One Works and the Other Doesn't
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- Опубликовано: 27 май 2021
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Zack Snyder was finally able to release his true version of the Justice League to the public. Love it or like it, it stays true to his vision. But this got us wondering, what is Snyder's vision? What defines the SnyderVerse and sets it apart from the MCU?
In this video we break down Snyder's literary influences and his philosophy to understand his work, from 300, The Watchmen, and his interpretations of Batman and Superman.
We also take a closer look at the history of the MCU, and how Jon Favreau and Kevin Feige instilled that franchise with a core philosophy of its own.
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Written and Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
Edited by Harriet Lengel-Enright
Research by Sailesh Gudipati
#RestoreTheSnyderVerse #MCU #SceneFights 
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Did you ever do a face reveal?
You couldn't have defined it better. When I see this DC saga I can only see a bunch of privileged ones with zero responsibility of their acts, but each and every character in the MCU is constantly worried about the consequences of their acts ("how can I be here without doing anything when there are men giving their lives" is the main theme in Captain America, "you must learn responsibility and the consequences of your decisions" in the case of Thor, "with great power comes great responsibility" for Spider-Man, "my legacy cannot be this, there are young men killed by our weapons, we can do better than this" in the case of Ironman, and the list goes on. They are there exact opposite.
okay
This unfortunately has been a code in the game before 😢 nothing new for older players of the game
His father was worried his choice would be taken away. But Clarks own father tells hi. He has no choice but to stay hidden while he sacrifices himself.
These longer video essays are an absolute kickass way to stand out and the quality is unreasonably high. Huge congratulations to the ScreenCrush team who make these videos
man.. this is a good one
Agreed!
They pretty much nailed it. And there is no way I would have figured this out on my own. Watching this was time well spent.
⚠️ WARNING ⚠️ THIS IS A VERY LONG COMMENT. ONLY SCROLL DOWN IF YOU HAVE A COUPLE MINS TO SPARE. and that’s only if you’re a pretty fast reader…it’s more like five mins for slower than average readers haha.
This channel is one of the few, if not the only channel that does film/TV/animated shows/character studies (mainly on superhero or fantasy movies or shows, so if you exclude all the other genres then that limits it down to only a few channels….if we’re talking specifically about RUclips that is…but still that’s a very big chunk of the film and TV industry with just those genres alone and that’s where all the good juicy stuff is; all the Easter Eggs and fan theories, etc. So that’s what everyone wants to see anyways, including me being one of those people.) and movie/series/franchises/cinematic universe breakdowns, plus all the other stuff I already mentioned in the parenthetical above. But the main thing(s) that separate this channel from all the others (IMO) is not only do they constantly and steadily deliver on the quantity of the videos, but they are always quick and on time, which is also implying that they are always keeping up to date on the most recent shows and movies (but also every once in a while delving back into older classics for nostalgia or even other genres, which I love…since I’m just a huge film and TV fan of all movies and shows in general) and quickly releasing the videos shortly after these movies’ and shows’ release of each new episode or season. As a matter of fact, at least out of the other channels that are similar to this one that I’m aware of, Screencrush is always the first to upload a full in depth breakdown video after an episode or movie is released. And the thing is that it’s not just the quantity…the quality is always on point and everything is so well put together and executed nicely and neatly. They don’t sacrifice quality for quantity like a lot of other channels do. Plus, and this is just a bonus I guess but it’s a huge factor for me, is that he never tries too hard on his jokes, they are subtle (which is why they usually land most of the time…or at least they are usually somewhat funny the majority of the time, and I usually let out at least a little light chuckle or smile, but a lot of the times it’s an actual genuine burst of laughter) and they just blend in perfectly and keep the video from becoming too boring and make it entertaining while also giving out actual useful information for your brain at the same time. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, he doesn’t try to put one in *every ten seconds* to the point where you just wanna click off the video cuz you’re tired of constantly rolling your eyes at all the cheesy, unnecessary, and UNFUNNY jokes that become a nuisance after a while because they also interrupt the video and make you lose your focus, and then you have to rewind since you lost track of where the host left off; and that means hearing the stupid joke for a second time. SO FRUSTRATING 😣😩😤😰🥵 I don’t want to name any names though ( *cough* *cough* Heavy Spoilers ) lol ya but anyway I know they’ll probably never see this but thanks to anyone who made it this far in my own little “essay” or “channel study” of my own that I felt was deserved of and worth mentioning. 👍 👌 ✌️
P.S. shout out to not only Ryan, but of course the whole team for the great videos that help me get through the day and pass the time. I am so fascinated by all this stuff. It’s truly an escape from reality which I need sometimes…but ya also major shoutout to the editors, you guys are the true GOATS. And btw no disrespect to Heavy Spoilers. He’s ight too, so nothing against him, I just prefer ScreenCrush instead…haha thanks again keep up the great work guys if you somehow see this. Preciate you 🙏🏼 🙂
I know right? The time they spent to analyze and carefully breakdown the ideas of each pioneers of these two franchises. Know I gained an idea how Znyder's perceived his DC projects.
The Ancient to Strange: "It's not about you"
Parents to Clark: "You owe nothing to this world"
Probably the most direct differences within each cinematic universe
DC's Cinematic Universe is more closer to reality..
Imagine if you wake up as Super Man. You can go all out like Tony Stark and say to the world that 'I, Clark Kent, am Superman'.
Once you say that in the real world, mainly 2 things happen:
1. Humans fear the Superman because they don't know whether he is really a good person with Humanity's best interest in his heart. What if he goes Rouge? He is capable of destroying the planet in seconds.
2. People expects Superman to save everyone from every danger ever possible. If he fails to do so, people blames Superman that he didn't save them or their friends from an accident, eventhough he easily could have. Being a superhero becomes a stressful, sleepless operation where he needs to save every one from every possible accidents or dangers.
This is what exactly shown in Snyder's movies like Man of Steel and Batman vs Superman.
The only reason Batman tried to kill Superman is because he thought the same as the first point I mentioned before. Batman was prepared to handle the worst case scenario.
Personally I love both MCU and DCEU. MCU is cheerful, funnier and more heroic in certain ways. But DC, is more true to life and feelings. In DC, superheroes also has human like feelings. Their behaviors and their decisions are more naturally guided by the situation that they are in. DC is dark, because this real world is truly dark. World is not always a funny place where people have a 'Dance Off' in serious situations.
@@more2liv
Dceu is not more realistic to our universe irl but Zack Snyder’s heightened universe of ours. The mcu is closer or tries to be relatable to our universe. Both have pros and cons. Zack Snyder’s universe is darker literally and figuratively with lightning but also the world seems to be more hostile at least at first glance. His is more of a painting with lots of accentuations. The media is probably portrayed more realistically than the mcu in the snyderverse but there aren’t awkward daily occurrences in the snyderverse vs mcu. Makes it easier to be engrossed in his stories and take them seriously vs the mcu where characters even gods make relatable mistakes like dropping something by accidentally and awkwardly or having small talk on a bus etc which can be harder to take those films seriously and be immersed but helps with comedic levity so pros and cons. A dance off is more relatable than killing a mutant human alien hybrid with a rock that harms oneself who is from space. Again pros and cons but the dceu isn’t realistic or at least relatable. If Superman existed irl him saving Lois in bvs when she’s thrown off would kill her due to the speed at which she falls vs Superman flying upwards. If it was realistic Superman would die immediately on earth since his immune system wouldn’t be use to earth diseases or the same with Zod’s crew. Batman also would be wearing eyeliner like in The Batman under his mask. Wonder Woman would’ve aged and if we says she’s magical and made from clay by Zeus then we fully admit Snyder’s DCEU isn’t realistic but rather more mythic. Superman in the dceu excluding JL (2017) is more of a Greek hero who’s burden is too much to bear. Iron man is more realistic to our universe. I respect both. I dislike the dceu more because of wb and their meddling. I don’t like the snyderverse because that’s not how I like to see those characters portrayed but I still respect them for being Snyder’s and other directors vision. Just not my cup of tea. I prefer more of DCAU. But Snyder’s films were green lit and then butchered by wb execs who wanted their bonus and put out sub par Frankenstein-Esque films from what their directors originally wanted. But don’t tell me bvs or mos is realistic because they aren’t. Literally mos is just the Greek myth of Hercules mixed with Jesus imagery in a Superman skin. Doesn’t make it bad but it’s more like a Greek epic than realistic. Darker than marvel in tone and cinematography but both have their heroic cheerful lighthearted moments and their dark moments.
@@more2liv Maybe if Superman didn't fucking demolish entirety of Metropolis, people would love him
@@DarkKnight_ when did Superman do that? Lol. That was Zod and the world engine.
And both in the comics and animations Superman does more destruction and tosses around villains against buildings.
someone give this man a -shield- seat at one of Marvel's creative tables to make sure they keep those idea(l)s in mind
Pretty clever little quip you did there with the crossing out of shield. I’m sold. Here, take this like. 👍
Thoust shal prosper in the land of thou man!
Is fucked up
Marvel has a team to watch people like him. They are too intelligent they work more effectively than you can imagine.
"This was Spielberg's way of trying to communicate with an alien life form... his parents. 😂🤦🏾♂️😂
The only Marvel film I wouldn't mind Zack directing is Ghost Rider. That's a movie that he could make as dark as he wants
The Punisher will work also for him
Zack doing it in the vein of 300 or Sin City would be epic.
Or maybe Daredevil
I think Snyder should change genre and stop doing hero power fantasy for some time, after that we will see how good director he is 😁
Zach could make a Justice League Dark film where Deadman’s forced for 3hrs to listen to Ayn Rand’s ghost deny she ever accepted Social Security benefits.
That scene in Iron Man 1 is a good pick, but honestly I think the scene that best exemplifies the thesis of MCU is the skydiving scene in Iron Man 3. In a DCU movie, all the people who fell out of the plane are dead. In Iron Man 3, he worked with normal people to make sure everyone got saved. IM3 is just a great thesis on the MCU because of the whole tone as well, since Tony didn't see himself as a hero but he sees the real heroes as Pepper and Rhoady. He just sees himself as a guy trying to do his best to help people.
So underrated, IM3. One of my faves!
I agree. Sure it has its flaws but IM3 is great and def underrated.
THANK YOU!!!! You are god for this breakdown of Iron Man 3. Such a truly underrated film. That airplane scene was so good.
@@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdom I never read the Extremis storyline in the comic, but I didn’t like how they were just tearing through Tony’s suits like they were made of tin foil. Other than that, I really liked the story and Tony being on the ropes, plus his battle with anxiety and mental illness hit home
In a marvel movie an entire city gets destroyed and no actions are taken and everyone trusts the superheroes. In a DC movie the public are worried and distrusts the heroes when they destroy buildings. Also in marvel movies they make dumb corney jokes like “America’s ass” and “regular size man” while in DC movies they have scenes like Superman screaming in agony as he painfully dies. In marvel movies we also have to feel bad for the villains when they do bad and die for being bad, even though we shouldn’t, while in DC they recognize they are bad and give no sympathy points to the villains
I came to watch a simple vídeo about my favorite characters, instead i got a lesson on individualism vs collectivism, Zack Snyder's vision and perspective about life, and discovered aspects of my own view of the world that i didn't know i had.
And for that i say thank you Ryan👏🏾
It’s like we got a PhD dissertation. Awesome !!
Tldr: "Marvel treats service as an honor, while DC treats service as a burden." Powerful, well done!
It's all about studios man. Sometimes I feel jealous about marvel. I love marvel it's a part of my childhood but I'm more a of a DC guy and I want to see a perfect DC universe.
"...and Pirates Of The Caribbeans." I took that personally.
lol that was me with the Amazing Spider-man drive-by 🙈😂
Deadass lol what did they do to deserve that
When I heard that news, its disheartening and disappointing...
he is right, after first movie, it was all about getting as much as money through pirates IP!! For me First pirate movie is example of good summer popcorn fun movie with good music good acting good direction fun enough story!! but rest oh my god after first viewing i cant stand watching over and over again, flaws are easily seen!!
First 3 were good. The 4th one was so boring, it could kill. The 5th was better in a way it is forgettable.
I think I never said that, but I LOVE the editing on ScreenCrush Channel. So on point and fun. Definitely one of the best I ever seen around RUclips. Whoever is doing this, keep it up!
“Cool motive. Still murder.” - Perfection
They suck
Its gold. Always really on point. 🤣
"you know....... bullshit."
I'm dying here
Me to
Me too 😂😂
The MCU has been a gift, truly awe inspiring design and filmmaking. I truly appreciate being alive during its creation and watching it all come together.
Good series, but bad film making.
@@MisterHeroman nah
@@MisterHeroman great film making actually, specially with the gigantic scale of movies we are dealing with.
@@davemarty265 Hm, no. Bad camera work and writing stop it from being great.
Well said. Comic books and my imagination come to life on screen.
Marvel established solo films about unknown characters and brought them together to form crossover films and team up/vs movies with even more solo films, creating a cinematic universe on a scale never before seen in Hollywood.
DC wanted to replicate that effect but instead rushed their most iconic characters into existence by cramming tons of stories, solo films and crossover movies with the first few films without a long term goal or the blueprint that made the mcu successful.
Exactly
Marvel started with solo movies of 3 core avengers with the hope of getting to the Avengers. Hulk was done only a few years before. DC started with 3 of the core members of the Justice League. So I’m not sure how much this argument still works. Now, Gardiens of the Galaxy was totally left field but again, I think they wanted a space based groupe. They didn’t have the right to X-men lore so no Starjammers. So what’s left that is simple enough to introduce as an assemble? The Nova corps ? (Too much like Green Lantern)
There's an expression the Pixar guys used to use (and maybe still do), "an idea is worth $20, execution is worth 20 million". There's no reason why what DC wanted to do shouldn't have worked with the right stories or directors. They just had the wrong ones.
Snyder indeed had a long term plan, but WB made him rush to it cuz they wanted to catch up with marvel.
@@derbaba5266 yeah that does go into account of why the dceu failed.
To quote the philosopher El-P, "Got a Vonnegut punch for your Atlas shrugs."
Gee...How wry... who could argue with such an articulate statement as that? No wonder you idolize the words of such a ...Celebrity?
@@bryndone I hate to be the one to tell you this, no matter how much you try to assert your superiority in RUclips comments, she'll never love you. Shit, she doesn't even respect you as a man. You are a non-sexual entity to her.
In the Snyder Cut, Superman does seem that he wants to help others. It seems his attitude changes after he comes back from the mother boxes.
Yes.
Which was part of the plan for JL 2 and 3.
I find it so uncharacteristically surprising at first that Captain America: Civil War and BvS were similar on hero vs hero theme and that even before BvS was out, Jim Lee storyboarded the Justice league that Zack envisioned and how, again, it was similar to Infinity War and End Game. At the end of the day it would be best Geoff Johns is not involved in the DCEU.
Another thought: I've heard how some directors and even actors didn't work out with the MCU because of creative differences and more specifically those persons not wanting their ideas and visions stifled by the demands of those overseeing the MCU. That's a perfectly valid viewpoint, but it doesn't mean those demands are inherently bad, especially given the incredibly positive reaction to the MCU as it's progressed. It boils down to Fiege and company saying to people "Hello, we have this universe we're building. You're really great, you got amazing talent and style and ability. We're inviting you to come play in our universe. You'll need to stick to certain rules, but otherwise you can do what you do best and contribute." And for some folks, like Edward Norton and Edgar Wright, that feels too restrictive, and for others, like James Gunn and Taika Watiti, it works out just fine.
But at the same time, some directors have really bad ideas and maybe it helps if they get reined in a bit, especially if it conflicts with who the character is. Marvel seems to be okay with giving even unknown directors complete control as long as they understand the content. I think Scott Derrickson is a pretty good example of this, he really, really, really wanted to make a hardcore horror movie and Marvel finally said no for the last time, so they parted ways.
I wonder how other directors will fair when they are asked to director a film using the creative style of the Snyder-verse.
@@orlandocardoza974 No other director can do that successfully
Basically the good old: "adapt or die"
Taika = unusual genius
So the MCU heroes are humans, while the Snyderverse heroes are gods.
Funnily enough, that's the exact general feel of their respective comics.
Exactly. They have problems if an incredible scale to handle. And that’s why we watch them, isn’t it?
A lot of people also don't understand that Snyder was only going to make 5 DC films that were *HIS* story for the DC characters and while they started out as his versions of the characters, they were meant to grow into the more comic accurate versions of the DC Characters by the end of ZSJL3 so that way other directors could do what they want with the characters for future stories in the DCEU without needing snyder around, but WB didn't stick with that and now they are just throwing random things out there and seeing what sticks.
Essentially the DCEU is dead and WB won't let Zack do his last Two DC films to finish his story they won't even let him finish it in comic format which is kinda messed up they hate him that much, even though everyone liked his singular vision better than the random stuff thrown out there because it was at least a cohesive story told by one person.
@@CAPEDCRUSADER3900 well both of his first two films underperformed financially, critically and with the audience along with most people blaming the slow start on Zack Snyder so can you honestly blame Warner Brothers for thinking maybe continuing with Zack Snyder isn't the best idea when other directors in the dceu had made movies that had better reception and more success?
MCU : humans want to be gods
DC : gods want to be humans
@@SlimKim3 the first 4 movies of mcu failed but the 5th movie was successful.zack movies released in the shadow of mcu they are still good not failure but old dc fans and wb rejected him🙄love you zack you are legend
Marvel built a franchise on mostly unknowable characters (to the general public anyway). What they did with infinity war and endgame is truly remarkable. Especially the character arc for Tony.
High quality video commentary like this will not only keep me coming back, but will be used as an example of how to state, support, and express thoughts. Thank you guys for what you do and for helping to elevate the conversation around this particular genre of art.
Marvel had a general plan and idea with an ultimate end goal (The Avengers then Infinity War/Endgame) in mind. They adapted and changed when needed to and kept a key focus on where they wanted to go. DC/WB had relatively no long-term plan and wrote by the seat of their pants. They either crammed too much too soon, didn't let their characters or stories develop, threw whatever they could on the wall to see what stuck, micromanaged or interfered with production or tried to emulate Marvel or so something completely opposite. This made their cinematic universe inconsistent in scope and varied wildly from film to film. While they have hit some home runs, they also had their fair share of misses and duds too. Hopefully, DC/WB has learned where they want to take their characters and stories to fully utilize their potential and create great works of cinema.
The problem of DC is WB. ZSJL is great movie and his story deserved to be done. Its like waching Infinity War but without the Endgame. So Zack made huge interesting story with amazing CGI (Flash travel through time to save JL was one of the amazing shots he did.) but WB want to make some new shit with black Superman (i am not a racist, even black people said that is stupidest idea WB have) and the woke convention.
WB will destroy DC
@@giannisksanthopoulos4300 Snyder cut is okay. Villain is still a grey CGI monster I don't care about. And it's not interesting enough for a 4 hr movie.
@@davidbowles7281 This is your opinion...but the rating and movie reviews said different.
Still gray?? TF....did you see Steppenwolf, you can see even his sparkles in his eyes..and the suit he has was ine of the kind in movies. So...what was wrong?? You dont know either, you just a dumb troll
@@giannisksanthopoulos4300 I said it was okay. That's what most of the reviews I watched said as well. What are you on about?
I'd never watch it again, though.
Eh... I think WB haven't learn anything yet buddy.
Gotta love Christian Science, it’s neither Christian or science.
Soooo Scientology?
Like Grape Nuts
💀✌️
Gave us Metallica as well
Well I just looked it up the beliefs and all the sorts and it seems close to Christianity, but flawed in someways.
Thanks Ryan, this is as good of a description as any, as to why Snyder's vision is so polarizing, and why in particular, his vision of the DCEU clashes not only with the comparison to the MCU, but also to the source material.
it doesnt.Superman was depicted as a jesus character like for years.
@@ebbystein7577 No he wasn't. Superman is a Moses figure created by two Jews who wanted to relate the immigrant experience, showing that they both value their new home and can be positive contributors to it. It has been repeatedly co-opted by Christian ideology (as well as bullshit conservative ideology like this Ayn Randian Libertarian Superman that Snyder gives us) but the Jesus figure shit is very, very new in terms of age.
When Clark is written best, he is REMOVED from "godhood" and is instead returned to the salt of the earth immigrant roots he began at. He's not and will never, ever be a Jesus, no matter how hard Christians try to shoe-horn Christ on the Moses story that is his literal origin.
No his take is entirely based from an one off story universally hated by superman fans where superman goes bad . Snyder took each character from one off stories that do not fit into usable characters in the main story arcs that fans like or had best atories to translate to film.
Dark knight batman with the tank was a version of Batman only in those .
Agreed , Snyder is an absolute stupid twat on DC source material. Man of steel was best Superman and why? Because Chris Nolan wrote it and WB wouldn't let Snyder change it because they wanted Nolan to write more Dark Knight level successes for DCEU
@@DarkepyonX Supes was great in the Snyder Cut too.
Dude the way you sneak in your ads just makes me want to never skip ahead of them
I wonder if the irony of a staunch individualist relying on the collective action of his twitter fanbase to achieve was he could not do on his own is lost on him and his supporters...
you should tweet that at him
Tell me, do you want to go back to a studio knowing that they treat you like shit?
@@possiblyanonymousguy1904 Welcome to working class.
He is not an individualist, lol. And oh, what are societies made of anyway? Individuals? No way! Individuals working together? No way! It is very different than thinking you can do stuff just by yourself. Specially in the movie business.
@@Vesohag the man been making films for WB from the jump..if he was really an individual he would've went indie
Idk but when I watch MOS, BVS, JLS, I feel sth that I've never felt when watching movie. I feel so connect and relate to the character.
What does that say about you?
ofc. people with individualistic ideology like snyder will relate to them.
Was genuinely scratching my head at "Fant4stic" till it hit me. Needless to say, I haven't watched the movies.
SnyderVerse - Zack wants the audience to connect in his movies.
MCU - Kevin Feige wants his movies to connect to the audience.
You speak out my thought
Even if this assertion was true, neither of these are superior to the other.
Beautifully put.
The only made two movies. I don't know why people call it the snyderverse when it was just a couple of movies within a larger franchise called the DCUE
@@charliehustle3876 I don't know about Comics but cinematic wise you have to be a straight DC fanboy to not acknowledge Marvel is Superior to DC.
LOVE when you do these types of vids!! Thought-provoking, insightful, entertaining, AND comical. You’re doing GREAT! 👍
This is so good to watch, great job Ryan
I never came across a more thoughtful comparative review of MCU and DCEU. Really nice job.
I actually don't know man why this man have any haters
He is so good and doesn't personally hate anyone
Superman's desire to save people is literally and figuratively beaten out of him...
Ah yes, Individualism vs Collectivism, the greatest war of our times.
Wisecrack already has video about Batman v Superman and about their ideology, problem is that both are same individualist characters so they are really not in opposition. (I am sure there many more explainers on RUclips)
@@Feefa99 give link
@@tommale7631 Type "wisecrack dceu" to search on RUclips, there are multiple videos just from them
And the winner in this case has been well defined thanks to Capitalism
@@shannond7437 whos the winner?
This essay is remarkable and truly mindblowing. Great job, Ryan 👍🏼👏👏👏
No one breaks these down like you. Great research and great presentation. Keep up the great work!
Man Of Steel was the first intended chapter. The aim was to show his progress over 5 movies with Superman becoming the character we all know. Unfortunately, WB cut this story short so we didn't get the "redemption".
Five movies is way too long to turn Superman into Superman. It's ridiculous.
only problem is, in regard to Snyder's vision, that doesn't happen. Say what you will about Joss's version but its version of Superman acted like Superman. he was smiling, optimistic, and he went out of his way to save people. his presence in the final battle felt like a grand return
the Snyder Cut just showed him in black beating up Steppenwolf. even slicing off one of his horns. sorry, but that just doesn't feel like Superman to me
No. It's very fortunate that they stopped this. The entire concept is asinine. Superman doesn't grow into being Superman. He's raised to be by great parents. He doesn't have to figure out how to be a good person becuase good people already taught him how.
I don't know who that rash family was that found the alien in man of steel by they weren't any Kents I ever heard of.
@@captainjefferies9047 your whole comment is asinine
@@MovieBuff404 What you are telling me is that you are too ignorant to merit respect.
I always love watching your videos Ryan. You're the best part of screencrush
"He didn't knowingly sacrifice his life." What? What are you talking about? Supes absolutely knew that being near a kryptonite spear and rushing toward Doomsday can totally kill him. That's why he gives Lois one last kiss and hug before Flying toward the monster.
Zack gives his Superman a character Arc. His experiences make him grow to BECOME the Superman with unbridled optimism. Batman is absolutely collecting everyone for the greater good, that's collectivism. He has no choice, there's a coming imminent threat. Snyder Cut also has a major theme of family and fatherhood. Batman had a connected character arc from BvS Ultimate to Snyder Cut. By the 3rd act of Snyder Cut, Bats has regained his faith, and not just cold logic.
Also, I'm assuming you didn't see BvS Ultimate edition because Supes definitely WAS horrified after the court bombing, he even helped the medical staff with the victims.
he did it to save his flgirdriend and his mom. Like his mom and dad taught all that matters is you not the countless people you could help
@@urbz6712 Wrong.
Fantastic analysis! You continue to surprise me Mr. Arey.
After watching this, I appreciate man of steel even more. Its showing that even superman isnt immune to being a symptom of shaky parenting. That's as real as society gets
that is your conclusion? 😂😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂
Let's not forget that if Superman is real people will fear him
@@hello-gx6oi but he’s not real
@@qarahiyo my thoughts exactly
Beautiful.
Honestly just started watching your videos today and this is the second one… what an amazing video.
Thank you
I'm sorry but two things. One , when Superman was in the courtroom and everybody dies from the explosion it's clearly shown that Superman is heartbroken by the scene as he knows the people will ridicule him for not helping or they will think that it's him that did the explosion as well as when everybody was coming to rescue the people Superman was seen trying to help but they said that they don't need his help. Two, Superman clearly knew that he was going to die or had a high risk of dying when he was flying the spear up to Doomsday because he just got nuked as well as how to fight with Batman before. Louis was literally begging for him not to do this but he felt like he had to. The journey Superman makes in his film connects with me so much because it shows how good people are made through the worst experiences.
Yes those scenes work and internally justify themselves, much like a man sitting in an ivory tower can justify his opinions; meaning that it's all internal, he doesn't seek out peers of any sort. What kind of peers could Superman find? Peers of mind, peers of heart, emotionally kindred people. Lois is more pet than peer, doesn't change his mind through reason, only pleas emotionally. We all live in a world of one, ourselves, and work to overcome that, to see others as equally valid living beings despite shortcomings or dumb ideas. On that level we can all connect. Snyder objectifies others. Even the collection of heroes feels like co-orbiting individual universes. They are obstacles standing between him and his wants. We all do this but strive to remember that is an illusion of the ego; a necessary one (lest we be cattle and insane) but to know our own boundaries is the goal. Superman's real kryptonite is his hurt feelings, his fear of rejection. Ultimately Snyder believes, like Rand, that the ends justify the means and like in a Twilight Zone scene, would end up living alone in their perfect world.
I really like the Snyderverse, btw, for its portrayal of that side of the inner duality. I just see where ScreenCrush has a valid assessment. If you've read the Ayn Rand novels you'll know (I hope) that it comes down to a question of values: are the things ($s) worth more than the people? It is really all just entitlement issues wrapped up in some artsy idealism.
But was he heartbroken for the loss of life, or heartbroken that people would blame him?
It still had elements that this video is talking about, Superman wasn't just thinking of others but also of himself - in your post, you say as much.
Granted, it's open to interpretation and there's no absolute right answer, but I'm just pointing out that even in your post you imply objectivism in Superman's thought process.
Yet ppl say he was emotionless
@Mist I agree with this and have more detailed rebuke of the accusations and false narratives in this video above. Humans are the one's wanting to regulate Superman and he is willing to submit to that, hence he was at the Senate hearing. Batman is also trying to argue that Superman must be regulated, even as Bruce acts outside the law of his own accord. Captain America did even worse by refusing to participate in regulatory controls at all in his rejection of the Sokovia Accords. I guess people forgot about that.
I didn't know of the Ayn Rand connection, but it makes sense. I also think that the Snyder movies just aren't as well written as MCU films. Perhaps the most damning factor is how Warner Brothers didn't have faith in their own films, and torpedoed Snyder's vision and brought in Whedon because they thought that they had to change their approach to these films halfway through an established path they themselves had greenlit.
Wasn't whedon brought in after snyders daughter died?
@@raygun38 Yes, so that's a bit off. Snyder also got full rein on Man of Steel and Batman v. Superman, so clearly WB gave him a lot of leeway to put the movies out he wanted to put out.
I did not know about the Snyder/Rand connection either and I too believe that it makes sense. It is my understanding that Warner Brothers brought in Whedon to finish The Justice League because, due to the death of his sister, Snyder could not. The lighter tone is the foundation of all of Whedon's work, so that would of course be revealed in his work on JL. Not to mention how difficult it must have been to be tasked with finishing an unfinished work of an artist who has a style that is quite different from one's own.
If you go through the list of the greatest failures due to studio meddling, Warner Brothers is typically behind 70% of the films. They appear to be attempting to improve this moving forward.
@@shannond7437 but where did they meddle here? They let him do MoS and BvS with full control, they let him do JL as well but after his daughters death Wheddon took over. I guess we’ll never know what would have happened otherwise, but they seemed to have let him make the movies he wanted to make.
Seems like "the studio didn't let me do my vision" is the get out of jail free card for directors these days.
This is one of my favorite video from your "VS" series : )
Such an awesome video. Loved it through and through ❤️ great content ScreenCrush
wow man! this was such a joy to watch! thank you! do you have a class in some college I can take?
In my experience, the best Superman stories are the ones that make him the most vunerable.
Good analysis, SC nailed it once again.
I really enjoyed this, and it made me appreciate both franchises more. Thanks!
Great channel with some amazing insight. Even when I don't agree I see his point clearly, respect him for it and grow because I listened to it.
Wow. You and your team really are excellent writers and really do your research. This is brilliant
very insightful, I learned a lot about Zack-attack from this. whenever I hear "the Fountainhead" referenced I groan, I've had friends that adored Rand and its usually made them lazy thinkers and a little bit selfish.
I could not agree more. Especially with the lazy thing. They see themself as the great artist but they refuse to look into the detail if what they produce even works (Snyder with his imagery - thinking it is so deep but most of the time it is shallow or doesn't even work)
@@martinwinter615 well he doesnt care about what you think.
@@ebbystein7577 And I dont care about that. I can have my opinion about his art without his feedback.
@@martinwinter615 If your opinion of his art is this shallow then it is essentially useless.
@@charliehustle3876 Useless for you yes. Cause you won't accept any critic against Snyder anyway.
Ok, this was one of the best insightful video I've watched on the subject. Thank you.
Ryan, your segue skills are unmatched!
Well, DCEU's closest to have a Kevin Feige, was Steve Mnuchin, Donald Trump's Treasury Secretary.
Let that sink in.
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
You mean The Penguin?
Mnuchin the guy who looks funny when he says his own name🤣🤣
Donald trump secretary was one of the reason why the investigation of wb was not carried on,if only the investigation was carried these execs would be out,stupid donald trump secretary,wb slave
We all saw the DCEU Honest Trailer this week.
I wanna see a Snyder movie where Alfred betas the shit out of every major villain and then just bullies darkseid
Love,Love watching your videos with dedicated explanation. Great work as always.
i appreciate your sensitivity to emotional life of the people you talk about in your videos. it’s really nice
It almost feel he gave Superman, Lex's world view.
You couldn't have said it better.
That would explain why Lex was so un-Lex in Batman v. Superman. If they just made him normal Lex, he'd have been indistinguishable from Superman, and that might've been a problem.
Alternatively, it could've become Superman's motivation to change his worldview and be altruistic, but then that'd require Zack Snyder change his own as well.
This was an awesome analysis. Now I can understand the differences in the theatrical ans HBO release of the movies.
I’m spending my morning with you! Great content!!!
This was really well done good stuff
I’m so deeply amazed at these breakdowns. It’s like a whole new something I wanna learn.
This is good!!!
I suspect that those who fight for their place in what they love, come to the conclusion that fighting for what they love is the most valuable fight.
Now add that to the gnostic-ist sentiment of Christian Science, namely to transcend what is known or understood. And we have a self interested fight that includes rising above others even if we must help others so we can to get there.
That’s what I’m picking up from Snyder’s perspective, at least in these movies. Although I wonder if contemporary culture lends to that. It certainly makes it sort of ok, but I’m not sure if that’s a hero.
This is an outstanding analysis! Really brought these motivating forces into focus.
Beautifully made video, I truly truly enjoyed watching thank you for this.
Thank you for the this breakdown. So on point for me.
Thank you for the effort to understand where Snyder is coming from. I don't agree with all of your conclusions, but I do agree that Snyder's Clark Kent isn't altruistic. If anything I felt like he was more human and more relatable in his uncertainty. He doesn't believe that humanity is innately good and worthy, but to me that makes his actions even more heroic; putting himself at risk for people he doesn't know if he can trust. Of course he's conflicted.
I also think that he did think he was likely sacrificing himself in Batman v Superman. He was extremely weakened by the Kryptonite spear, straining for every bit of remaining strength, he had to know the risk.
But, I also understand why it's not your favorite and, again, I appreciate your time in looking at it from Snyder's point of view.
"He doesn't believe that humanity is innately good and worthy, but to me that makes his actions even more heroic; putting himself at risk for people he doesn't know if he can trust." That is quite literally the definition of altruism lol. Like I'll never understand ppl who watch this movie and BvS and don't think hes altruistic if anything hes more objectivist in Donners version because saving people actually makes him happy. Snyders take on Supes hes miserable because humanity hates fears or worships him but throughout MoS and BvS despite being conflicted he still tries to save people because he believes its the right thing to do not because he feels a sense of personal joy out of it. I hate Ayn Rand but even she stated if you want to be altruistic be altruistic if it brings you self satisfaction which is nowhere near the direction Snyder takes supes so I honestly have no idea where people keep coming to this conclusion.
Its a either a deep misunderstanding of objectivism or a deep misunderstanding of snyder and his movies.
I totally agree. I like how you explained and analyzed first the nature and intentions of each franchises. You provided breakdown of these insights and carefully provided the details through a narrative of research and analysis. You just don't give opinions. Instead you provided a factual details especially on understanding Znyder's point of view for his Znyder's Universe. And I was very intrigued about it. Honestly I didn't know these facts until you narrow it down. Now I gained a little knowledge about Znyder's intentions and how he perceived his DC projects and his other films as well. Good job with that. I like how you explained these facts also. The tone of your video wasn't that "I am right about this, so hear me out" type of thing instead you just explaining things the way you understand based on the facts and resources you've found. That's a good way how you attack a narrative or providing an opinion or whatnot. Overall I like hoe you give your opinions about this. Great job.
When I saw this in my front page, I completely missed that this video was about what I requested a while back when you were already working on it. I only just realized that it wasn't just Marvel vs. Snyder, but Marvel vs. DC. Sseing the DC logo would have helped. Thank you. You did not disappoint. VERY good breakdown.
This was VERY well done. Thank you.
DC : Man like creatures, God like Powers
MCU : God like Creatures, Man like Power
I rank mcu 1st and dceu second. Both of them have amazing visual. I love marvel and i love dceu too. You have ur view but i disagree regarding dc a lot. A lot! Zack snyder had a vision. His true vision is what made fans love him. He didn't start from ground zero and still made it look so amazing. He still went deeper into the characters. And he did amazingly.
This was an amazing video essay! Shared to my Facebook.
What an amazing video man loved it... Perfect
Nah this is a PhD level essay. Loved every part of it
14:43
You're forgetting what that trucker guy did to the waitress, he deserved it. Don't stick up for people like that, they're bad.
thank you
Amen hallelujah
Yes thank u!
true but Superman is always the bigger man. there's lots of people like that in the world and the way he dealt with the situation made him look petty. He could've quite easily as just kick the guy out the dinner too.
@@jayreal2084 Yes, Superman is. That's why Snyder named the movie Man of Steel, because he's not Superman, not yet. At least not the Superman we've all come to know and love.
Just like in Reeves' The Batman, Kal-el is a rookie, he's new to being hero and definitely not the same one we're used too.
This is a really interesting perspective. Thank you for researching this
Wow! I have to say this was a very impressive video! It is super interesting to see things from that perspective.
Great job Ryan, such a thorough breakdown that was easy and enjoyable to watch. It made me more appreciative of both Marvel AND Zack Snyder and while I'm a way bigger Marvel fan, if DC allowed the Snyderverse to live on through a series of "Zack Snyder's (Insert DC Superhero Movie Title Here)" I'd have my butt in the theater for every one.
"and why it spoked to the new fans that never cared about the character before" yeah thats me
Personally i hate comic book superman..... But Zack's superman is the only version i love
You sir, are the king of ad placement. Gets me every single time
This was great! thanks for this video.
“Hi, this is Ryan Arey. Let me share my well thought-out perspective that treats comic book movies like serious literature and brings in legitimate source material for deep thought-provoking consideration. Then I’ll minimize it by saying, “But that’s just my opinion. What do you think?”
Unbelievable humble man and team
RUclips video essays are by definition partial and subjective. I would have thought that by this time everyone would accept that these aren't academic works and that if you can't take someone giving a negative opinion on something you like you should simply keep scrolling.
In social media, that's called a call to action. More interaction on a video (likes, comments, shares) increases visibility directly or indirectly (e.g. The Algorirhm). Nearly every RUclipsr will have at least one call to action because it greatly increases traffic on their videos. Film Theory had a great video explaining this.
Snyder will always suck deep to the very core.
@Heroes Kitchen
I mean... It really is just their interpretation. A VERY good one. But it's not like they were there in Snyder's head to confirm this as fact. There could be other interpretations. They probably won't be as good as this one though.
13:56 he literally looks sad that he couldnt save those people. 14:22 still sacrificed himself tho.
First, no, he didn't look sad, he look bored; true, he was destroyed at the fact that he killed Zod, but for these people, its like, "Bummer, I couldn't save these people, even thought I should have heard the bomb because I have super hearing. I'm going home, and not help the people who are injured."
Second, but he didn't know, or even figured. A real superhero would go in there, sure they're about to die, maybe even already know it in advance; however, they go in there anyway, because they're trying to save the world, and that's all that matters.
@@TommyTallNose If you think like that it's because you haven't watched Batman vs Superman The Ultimate Edition, where there are scenes that were cuted from the film that explains all the questions you are asking.
@@BrunoVelius okay dude, if you say so.
This was great Ryan 👏🏾👏🏾
very well researched video.well done.
The marvel movies have many directors over the years like James Gunn, Peyton Reed, Matthew Vaungh, Tim Story, John Favreau, Sam Raimi, Lexi Alexander (first female director of a marvel property), Gavin Hood, many others as well. And as well as Mark Steven Johnson, James Mangold, Simon Kinberg, and of course Bryan Singer. I won't have Brett Ratner and Josh Trank in the list. To be honest, it's for the best. These are the marvel property movies and directors who struggled and took many risks to bring marvel characters to the big screen and paved for the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The marvel brand will be studied and remembered for generations to come
I think this video also explains why Marvel said to Patty Jenkins (directory of WW) they want full control . If a director went too individualistic it can cause disturbance and instead of creating MCU it will be like director-verse.
Wow, I love your analysis of the Snyderverse! Thanks for this perspective. It really shines a light on Zach's work.
Flawless analysis, bravo 👏
Spot on breakdown critique!
Books can tell a lot about a person
I’ll say it again and again….you are brilliant with these videos and always verbalize the feeling or thoughts I have but can’t explain. This is also why I love comics and superheroes for the metaphors and parallels we can make to our real lives. I mean I wish I could double subscribe to your channel lol ❤️
It was very well put, thanks!
Talk about a deep dive. Good job, keep up the good work.
This video explain the real meaning of Man of Steel that others didn't understand.
I don't agree with this guy. Superman was portrayed very well. Marvel doesn't really address real life hardships and consequences, portrayed life through a child's eyes full of fun and play, DC real puts them into consideration. Shows that life is not a cartoon, it's hard to navigate and shows the human nature of people and superman is torn between being a "god" and being human (because he was raised as a human for 33 years so he knows that human beings are good but are also bad, and DC doesn't bullshit its audience about the consequences of having superheroes fighting in a city , the deaths the destruction etc.And I think zack is doing a good job with superman
You broke that down beautifully incredible job sir much thanks to you.
Great video! But I was curious about that roundtable with the marvel directors. Where is it from?
I'd say the big difference is that the MCU is filled with people who represent hope. They put the 'hero' into superhero.
The Snyderverse is filled with people who beat things up.
Snyder has a style, and I think he can make good movies, but his style wasn't the right one for DC movies as a whole. Certain movies about specific, darker characters, sure... but not for the overall DCU.
Very true. And somewhat sad coz the JL:Animated Series soundtrack represented hope and the righteousness feeling that you should get watching superheroes apart from having fun. The DCEU has just not been able to achieve that.
This, so much this.
Yes definitely, I don't think it would be as much of a problem if we got our version of an mcu first and have a stylistic director like Snyder do an alternate version, like if Snyder did an avengers film now I'd be interested in seeing a different take but the reason the Snyderverse is so divisive is because DC fans like me are still waiting for a more comic accurate version
Funny thing is that in the comics Marvel is usually much darker then DC!
You couldn't be more wrong about Snyder