James Gunn VS Zack Snyder - The One Thing That Sets Them Apart
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- Опубликовано: 17 июл 2023
- James Gunn vs Zack Snyder--what's the difference? In this video we breakdown these two important superhero filmmakers to understand their styles, what informs their films, and what we can expect next from the DCU.
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Written by Dodson Seitz / banewruse
Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
Edited by Harriet Lengel-Enright, Randolf Nombrado, Sofien Dami, and Brianna McLarty
#JamesGunn #zackSnyder #dcu
Welcome to ScreenCrush, I’m Ryan Arey. James Gunn is about to reboot the DCU, and end the Snyderverse for good. But what does that really mean? In this video, we’re going to dive very deep into these filmmakers, examine what makes them tick, and find out what actually separates these two very different approaches to DC’s cinematic universe.
Gunn’s characters embrace the lighthearted nature of comics - while still maintaining some sense of realism. This creates relatable characters who are easy to fall in love with - no matter how flawed - which fit perfectly with the MCU.
Snyder, however, made a point of differentiating himself from the MCU. While the MCU’s stories centered (mostly) around humans becoming gods - Snyder’s films were about Gods becoming human.
From the little we know of - and have seen - we can already tell that Gunn’s universe is set to be vastly different than the Snyderverse, which may be precisely what this reboot needs [clip]
And you know, one of Zack Snyder’s best received movies was his 2004 remake of dawn of the dead-whcih was wrotten by James Gunn. [clip] It’s inte∑resting to see that these two filmmakers were once so aligned with substance and style, but over the years their artistry has floated into very different directions.
So let’s talk about these two filmmakers, their careers, and how we got here!
Doug: OH, James Gunn vs Zach Snyder!
Exactly!
Doug: in a caged Deathmatch! Die millionaires, die! You have nothing to lose but your chains.
That’s enough comrade.
Maybe sheath ad here
As we said earlier, Snyder tried to differentiate his films from the MCU by with stories about Gods becoming human vs the other way around. - which isn't a new concept in DC comics. In fact, the idea was actually best summarized in Kill Bill Vol 2 [clip]
While Clark Kent really took a back seat in most of Snyder's stories, Cavil’s version of Superman was more than just an average citizen who stumbled into great power and thus became burdened by responsibilities - [clip]
He’s a messianic figure - who stayed hidden until humanity truly needed him, despite feeling detached from the human race. For the Snyderverse fans, this worked best in Man of Steel.
Doug: I thought you hated that movie?
Well, look, I personally didn't like Snyders's take on the character. It was a well made movie, it just wasn't a Superman film - to me, anyways - but I can conceptually understand why Synderverse fans liked this version of Superman.
Cavil’s Superman was an outsider. Someone burdened by their own strength and even shunned at an early age for helping people. That, plus killing Zod in the end, was a major departure from the “big blue boy scout” Superman has always been.
It was a controversial decision on a beloved character, but it set the foundation for the Snyder universe. [clip]
The Snyderverse dealt with intense emotional themes, and each chapter had consequences that seemingly threatened the entire world. Threats that would have otherwise required the Avengers in the MCU.
Since Snyder’s stories were exclusively told through Superman, the aspect of “gods becoming men” became the Snyderverse’s driving theme - and that's a lot harder for audiences to relate to. [clip]
It's much easier to relate to Spider-Man since he constantly fails in some of the most human ways, but it's kinda hard to relate to Superman. Like no one here watching these videos has ever been a genetic codex for an entire species. It's hard to relate to the guy who literally stares at Earth from space.
This idea of “gods becoming men” is also the most “DC” aspect of his films.
Doug: what do you mean by “the most DC” 
Кино
Do you think the DCU will be better than the DCEU?
Zack snyder
Yes only because hopefully this new DC will have complete autonomy, and not get so much pushback from the studio like the DCEU.
I don't think Snyder has made an actually great superhero movie whereas James gunn has the guardians trilogy, the suicide squad and peacmaker
DCU>DCEU and Gunn always over Snyder anytime
Snyder quit the dccu Gunn is fun separate categories
The thing that sets them apart? Gunn loves comics. Snyder thinks they aren’t cool enough.
Liar
@@CaesarAlexDaras what a weird response?
Nah Snyder loves them so much he makes a montage of his favorite comic panels and forgets to make a movie to fill around them.
@@CaesarAlexDaras Snyder thinks Batman master baiting in the rain to relief his stress and the juice falls on citizens heads in slow motion is so mature, edgy, emo realistic. His edgy evil Superman kills children. So cool right
I think one very telling thing about Gunn's movies is there's a video out there of Florence Welsh, lead single of Florence and the Machine, watching GotG3 for the first time and crying when she hears her song in it. She's so touched and emotional, and you can even tell the part where Dave Batista starts dancing because she starts laughing trying to hold back tears. He makes you care about a CGI Raccoon and Tree, and that's not exactly easy.
When exactly did Quill and Rocket become best friends, they're ALWAYS arguing. GotG3 pulled that out of nowhere so the reactions seemed unearned.
@@dangerflyit's not like they've known each other for years in the MCU ... And basically saved the galaxy 3 times.
@@steefthegamer3287 Yeah? Are you BEST friends with all your coworkers you've known for years? It was a drastic change in characterization to ARTIFICIALLY create stakes and drama. Peter was actually less upset with Thanos killing Gamora. You can't deny what you see onscreen if you're paying attention.
@@dangerfly I don't think they see each other as co workers lol. They see each other as family since Guardians 2. In a flashback in Guardians 2 you can actually see them flying and having fun. It's pretty save to assume they've had a lot of time bonding in the times between movies. There were more than enough clues to pick up on if you watch the movies well enough. Also I think he was more upset about gamora lol. He literally was the cause of half the universe dying. If that isn't being crazily upset I don't know what is.
@@steefthegamer3287 "in the times between movies." Your argument revolves around what happens in between movies like your own personal fanfic. Name just ONE instance where Rocket or Quill referred to the other as best friends.
Quill treats everyone on the team the same except Gamora. Quill+Gamora, Rocket+Groot, Drax+Mantis, have always been the pairings.
“Clark Kent is who I am, Superman is what I can do”
-Lois and Clark
Best description ever!!
I always thought that line was too simplistic. Superman is also who he is. Through his actions as Superman he demonstrates his morality, bravery, compassion, and yes, power. But the power aspect is not the important part. This is something I think Snyder stans tend to forget. Superman isn't a story about power. It's a story about romance. Superman is the opposite of a power fantasy. Superman is aspirational and instructive. He has the ultimate power and he doesn't use it to hurt people. He uses it to demonstrate love and kindness. That's the ultimate romantic idea of what a powerful human can be. And that is a core aspect of not only the Superman identity but the man behind it. Clark Kent IS Superman. They're not separate. They're one being who lives as both god and man. They both serve the same purpose, ultimately. Ultimately they both show us what we can and should be
The Greek Chorus aspect of it, the commentary on humanity, is also misunderstood but it's relevant. Clark Kent and Superman are both aspects of the commentary. They both show what a good man is in different circumstances but it's really one unified theme. Because when I said Superman is aspirational, he is; but he's also telling us that on some level that's what we already are. We just have to get it together and be what we were always able to be
Yeah, obviously I think about this a lot. What can I tell you? I love Superman
@@hezekiahramirez6965
Agreed!
Clark Kent learned from the Kents public virtue, the truth that every individual matters, and that if you can do a thing to help another, you should do that thing
It is Clark Kent who drops whatever the thing is he loves in that moment, to now go be Superman, because he is the one in that moment who can make a difference, so he does, it is Clark Kent who puts the needs of the many before the needs of the one, it is Clark Kent who is filled with so much compassion, that he becomes Superman, just to be able to save the day, it is Clark Kent who is Superman, there would be no Superman, if the Kents did not create Clark Kent first
Public virtue is how the Founding Fathers lived their lives, there was no such thing as “retirement” first you served your family, and if you could, you also built enough wealth, so that in your golden years you could now serve your community, and do that on your own dime, this explains why Benjamin Franklin said, that if our leaders ever began to live off of the back of the people, all the people had to do, was remove the money from them!!
To the Founders public service was never meant to be a paid career, it was meant to be a public virtue service, that you engaged in during your golden years… both Ron Paul and Donald Trump are modern day examples of this public virtue philosophy, both of them served in their golden years, after building up their own personal wealth, and like George Washington did, both of them gave back/or donated the public money paid to them for their service, and only lived off their own wealth they had built up, during their time in office
They are Superman, because it is the public virtue that creates that, it is their true superpower
Just a thought…
@@hezekiahramirez6965
Synder movies wanted to show the path of them becoming the above mentioned character traits.
(Ex: Batman monologue in superman funeral)
It's not comic accurate yes
But that doens't stop people loving the Spiderman home trilogy
In Homecoming he isn't comic accurate or similar to the raimi movies/Garfield ones
Yet People celebrate it
The hypocrisy is crazy
now that you mention it, i did think it was kind of weird his dad disapproved of him saving kids on a bus. i mean i get wanting to preserve your secret identity but i thought he of all people would understand doing the right thing is paramount
He didn't disapprove, he doesn't know what the right thing to do was. Truly showing how human Clark is. Raised by humans that don't always know all the right answers.
That was always my problem with Man of Steel. It didn't feel right to "punish" Clark for saving lives, but to Snyder's credit he remained consistent by having Pa Kent sacrifice himself in the storm against Clark's judgement.
@@Sebastianrdz41I don't know saying to a depressed and slightly freaking out young kid that maybe he should let others just die is still not great human sure but not really what people want to see. It feels like Clark became Superman in spite of his father instead of because of him.
@@Sebastianrdz41aww 45 yr old grown man doesnt know why u should save lives
@@Chiguy79pa kent was a pychopath is those movies so no wonder superman came out a murderer
I've always said Snyder is a great visual artist who works better when you hand him a script instead of a pen. The Dawn of the Dead remake, 300 and Watchmen were great, and he became involved in those after they were written. But when he got involved in the writing of Sucker Punch, the DC movies and Army of the Dead- you start to see a pattern.
He didn’t write any of the dc movies except Wonder Woman.
Sucker Punch is one of the worst movies I've seen, but 300, Watchmen and SnyderCut are some of the best comic movies.
I wish Gunn gives Edgar Wright a movie with complete control but within Gunn's plan.
I mean it it fits in a plan you are sacrificing some control it's how it is
I can see live-action Teen Titans movie having the aesthetic of Scott Pilgrim VS the World
Who makes better movies, Zack Snyder or James Gunn?
James Gunn
Man, definitely James Gunn, not even close!
Gunn always over Snyder anytime
I like them both
James Gunn all the way
Snyder makes beautiful movies, Gunn makes movies with beautiful stories.
w comment
Bros savage
No. The opposite actually
@@UwU-dx5huno he's right
Yes. Thank you for eloquently summing up why I love Gunn's work. Leading with story is imperative.
CHRISTOPHER REEVE'S SUPERMAN ALSO KILLED GENERAL ZOD. I can't believe how often this is overlooked by those who had a problem with Cavill's Superman killing Zod. Even THIS video overlooked that point when comparing the similarities between the Snyder and Donner films.
He don’t like what Snyder did to Boy Scout Superman 😂
He didnt kill Zod, in the original director cut Zod and the others are all alive.
@@pats3212i mean one guy jumped himself why would sm1 jump if he knows he is going to die. In movie character literally jumps from great height only to survive. Without seeing zod unconscious body how could anyone expect he died
Not really .snyderman kills everyone .the way he killed army general in bvs shows that its just like eating breakfast for him .the way he killed zod was no farm boy .it was a perfect neck break only a trained killer can do
Factz!!!!
Along the lines of gods vs. flawed humans, there is also the tragedy and/or inciting incident at the center of each character becoming a hero. It's very different between the core DC and Marvel characters. The DC characters often have something happen to them (often being orphaned, learning a secret about their past, or being presented with a powerful something). The Marvel characters typically have to overcome a terrible mistake they made (not stopping a criminal who kills your uncle, being a weapons manufacturer, building a gamma bomb, starting wars of choice with frost giants, etc.). The DC characters seem predestined to be heroes. The Marvel characters are almost surprised by their status as heroes, and have to continuously work at it.
Maybe it's hard to relate to guy who stares at Earth from space but it's definitely relatable to feel like an outsider, to feel powerless, to feel shunned. The idea that Superman is unrelatable because he's powerful is extremely surface level viewing of his character.
I honestly don't understand this "reparability" thing. It's gets smacked around everywhere for no reason. Like people watched Wall-E and cried a river over a garbage picking robot! Over a robot!
What makes me relatable to a guy like Spiderman? That instead of suffering from cancer or poison bite from a spider he instead gets super abilities! Lol! How is that relatable? Nothing in superhero character is relatable.
It's actually the story and the journey they take is the factor we relate to. Which is why we can see ourselves from Ku Fu Panda to The Conjuring to LOTR.
Story is what we connect with.
@@Vor567tez you've never felt like an outsider? You've never wondered what your purpose in life is? You've never felt like no matter how much you do, it isn't enough? If you haven't ever felt like any of those then I can imagine how you feel that Superman stories aren't relatable.
@@chaff5 I think you misunderstood my comment. I am saying that it's the character's emotional arc that makes us connect with him not his superpower.
So saying Supeman is not relatable bcs he can fly doesn't make any sense.
I have no issue with either filmmaker. Both are awesome.
Snyder's films are created on a mythological scale. With legends of old living larger than life.
Gunn's films are on a grounded scale, even when in space. With much humor coming from humbling relatable realities.
Snyder movies are made cringe scale.main man superman doesnt even have a character or personalities at all .
@@Dikbeeghe has less than 100 lines in bvs,most of the time he's just there brooding
@@kenny8712 right .these goofy stans are embarssing their seleves .bvs superman had less lines than civilwar spiderman lol
@@DikbeegIn man of Steel he is portrayed as God among humans
He ain't flawed. it's the most realistic superhero movie in the current time.
+
BVS is how batman portrays superman
Batman is the protagonist in that looking at the what superman has done to metropolis the destruction he caused
So batman had to take superman down for safety of the human race
So Superman doesn't need to talk much..
Superman , Batman became superhero in comics just like that (superman symbol of hope an idea to strive towards , batman making sure a child not going through what he had gone through as a child)
These were the starting point of these characters
Synder wanted to explore their path to those traits
So he messed up his superman (not a symbol of hope yet) and batman (killing)
It's kinda similar to the Marvel Spiderman trilogy
(In Homecoming Spiderman is not the same guy from the raimi movies or even the garfeild ones)
At the end of no way home he is
@@james_isaacThe destruction he cause by Existing, get it right. Which is weird cause Superman causes that kind of destruction all the time in the comics. Between Parasite, Bazarro, Mettalo and other Superman level threats theirs gonna be destruction. And no he doesn't take them outside the city. Superman use to blow holes on buildings all the time back in the day but 9/11 made people sensitive to stuff like that.
I told myself I was never going to get excited for DC films anymore, but this video made me want to see these movies so bad
Am I the only one experiencing the video and audio being totally out of sync?
Correct me if I am wrong. But didnt Superman kill Zod and the other Kryptonians at the end of Donner's version by removing their powers and letting them fall to their deaths at the fortress of solotude? Seems to get a pass compared to Smyder
The Richard Donner cut makes it explicit that Zod and his cohorts actually SURVIVED their fall.
Yo just wanted to say this was actually a real well done entertaining analysis of dc films I appreciate your efforts Ryan and team because I thoroughly enjoyed this video. Thanks again!
This vid here was horribly done. It lied on Snyders movies. He wasn't observant about Snyders movies. He is bias against Snyder.
He is just another fast talking Snyder hater.
He over looked the fact that MOS was a great adoption story.
And the fact that Superman was just a guy trying to do the right thing ...The God thing was projected on to him by people.
And Snyders Superman was about perseverance and altruism.
Gunn's The Suicide Squad is so underrated and it is what really got me on board. When I first saw the news, I thought he was just gonna Marvel-ify that movie but boy, he did that movie a justice and what I didn't expect was that underneath all that humor, goofiness and emotions, it was a pretty dark movie!
There was one thing that, even before Guardians 3 and if Id known nothing else about James Gunn, gave me hope that his DCU could be great. When he said that he was taking a lot of inspiration from the Justice League Animated series and JLU.
As an aside, I maintain that most of the voice cast of that would've been about as good as live-action versions of the characters. Heck, Rosenbaum could still play an older version of his Wally West in live action.
Funny you say that. Bruce Timm defended Snyders MOS. And worked with Snyder on a Superman short. Snyders movies have way more support from original DC content creators than critics. Snyders Superman was about Perseverance and Altruism. Two core traits of Superman. And darkness is needed to contrast both of those elements...
I don’t like that gunn needs to have humor embedded into all his movies. DC had always been more adult oriented, and that was great. People might think it’s just a comic book story, how serious can it be. But that is the one thing that differentiated it from Marvel. Nolan’s batman for example was sooo successful because it was serious. It was a story meant for adults, who as kids fell in love with these dc comics and now wanted to relive the stories. Snyder kept that serious. I have to admit I love the guardians of the galaxy. But it is something more childlike, goofy and well very marvel. I just think we should have the option of having these two different types of storytelling. I don’t like that gunn will ultimately transform the dc into a marvel like guardians of the galaxy. I love your videos and you have mentioned several times that you are more of a marvel fan and that’s cool. But wanting to transform dc just because people think it’s too gore or to serious. You know what, just don’t watch them. There’s marvel for you guys.
Not 100% excited for Gunn's new DC Universe but i'm really happy that he is gonna have a lot of freedom with the direction the films are going in, thats all I ever wanted for snyder and i'm happy that others are finally getting the chance. Just wished it happened sooner.
Really don't get why anyone is unsure about Gunn our end of the Galaxy Trilogy is all I need to know that DC is in good hands
@@captainjakemerica4579u do realize everyone didn't like gotg right?
@@badseedent4827 yeah but I really don't get how that's a reason to dismiss James Gunn
@@captainjakemerica4579 " is all I need to know that DC is in good hands "
While thats good for you some of us aren't to happy with the way Gunn treated super man in the peace maker episode I mean he litterally had peace maker crack a joke about how super man is turned on by poop. Yeah say what you will about the DCEU but at least it didn't treat super man like he was a wierd ass clown.
@MilkDudMan217 well as Superman wasn't the best treated in the dceu either there's a reason why Zack Snyder or as I call him Hack Snyder got booted James Gunn also has a special connection with Superman and it's something that he bonded with his now-deceased father over I'm quite sure knowing that he's going to do everything he can to do Superman Justice in this movie not to mention how he's been making a lot of posts about it on his Instagram so seems like you're worrying about nothing
In my opinion Gunn is probably a better filmmaker, but I feel like the Snyderverse could have worked if he had the same control that Gunn has been given. Even the MCU shifted tones to be darker after the Snyderverse came to be. Captain America 2, Civil War, Dr Strange, infinity war and endgame are some of the best MCU movies we’ve seen and they lean towards the more serious side. There’s a darker more weighted and contemplative tone to the later half of the infinity saga and it worked well. That being said if Snyder could have found a little more balance in his follow up films , the DCEU definitely could have worked without studio interference
Is Snyder had more control:
-Superman cucked by Batman in the one week he was dead, Lois has Batman's son and never tells Superman until she's forced to do so by a world ending event
-WW as a bloodthirsty assassin who wears her victims' heads as decoration
-Batman r4p3d in prison for shock value
-Greek Gods are actually Kryptonian bc screw the mythos of the comics
-Amazons are victims of mass r4p3 for shock value once again
These are all ideas Snyder was gonna implement but the studio and other directors said no, and these are only the ones we actually know of, who knows what other crap Snyder had in mind for these characters?!
@@pats3212is this legit?
@@Fallenangelcabanel Yes, all of it
If snyder had more control all movies will be 4:3 ratio 4hr slo mo sludge 🤣
@@pats3212 Batman should be raped to be fair
Snyder is a brilliant cinematographer and good director.
Gunn is just a better story teller.
Especially when it comes to characters. Which superhero stories are driven by.
Imo Snyder isn't even a great director, the Snydercut was horrible to me despite heing such a cool concept hahaha. He has tons of style but no substance
@@nailinthefashion I wrote good not great. Try to keep up.
@@bishopwhite1822 I just screenshotted it, cuz your first sentence in the original post made you look dumb lol idk why you got that upset anyway but try to keep up, like you said.
@@nailinthefashion hey man, I had edited it but I guess it didn't go through, my bad.
You're opinion is still wrong, dude.
But some guys think they know more than those who have experience. Like the people who have worked with him.
@@bishopwhite1822 you literally said great at first though 🤷🏾♂️ sure it didn't. Thanks for sharing your opinion, take care!
Let’s look at the directors that helped the MCU’s early rise to preeminence in the movie industry. Jon Faveau for Iron Man 1 & 2, but then he went to do other Disney stuff. Kenneth Branagh for Thor 1 - a one-off. The Russo Brothers for the latter Captain America films & the last 2 Avenger films. James Gunn for the GotG franchise. With the Russo brothers moving on, James Gunn was one of the last tentpole directors left at MCU, now he’s leading the DCU. Seems like a problem for the MCU as their directing bench is nowhere as deep as it was during the earlier phases, as well as a big gain for DC/WB. Yes, I know Ryan Coogler and Destin Daniel Cretton are there in the MCU, but we haven’t seen a large ensemble movie from them yet.
Personally, I liked Zack Synder’s spin that many of the super hero powers are derived from the Greek Gods. That’s a neat background story for both Wonder Woman and Aquaman (maybe even the Flash). If nothing else, it opened the possibility of introducing the New Gods into that universe. But I’m against Zack’s unfinished plans that included the affair between Bruce & Lois and making the Greek Gods be descendants of Krypton.
What I don’t understand is both the rabid fanaticism for the Synderverse and the opposing deep hatred towards the darker/more serious version of the DCEU movies. I think there’s an audience for both types of DC films - just like the more serious movies (like Winter Soldier) and the lighter movies (like GotG) in the MCU.
I believe James Gunn will make a better superman, James is simply able to look at the world of superman in a positive way, who he should be, not who he would be.
I kind of would have loved Snyder's take on a Superman-like character over Superman himself because it really didn't seem lke Snyder actually _likes_ the character that much. A Snyder version of Invincible would have been good, or if we needed to stay in the DCEU, giving him Injustice Superman would have worked. Superman without Altruism and a Smile isn't really Superman.
@@andrewshandleSnyder's version of Invincible would be called Omniman.
@@richardb6260 true, and somehow the hero of the story. Part of me would be worried to see his Injustice movie too because Superman would definitely be the hero in that story too. ;)
@@andrewshandleor how about snyder never come near a comic book ?
@@Dikbeeg I'm trying to give Snyder a bit of a pass in these comments, or the alarm bell will sound and all those guys out there who still have the "restorethesnyderverse" hashtag on their twitter profiles will descend on these comments like a plague of locusts. ;)
Christopher Reeve‘s Superman also killed General Zod as well.
Only thing is he took his powers away from him.
He didnt kill Zod, in the director's cut he's still alive
Directors cut he was arrested .and snyderman kills everything .the way he killed the army general in bvs like nothing shows that he usually does it as a normal daily thing
@@DikbeegDirectors cuts are not the theatrical wide release. They aren’t the official version of a film. They are an interesting exploration for fans, but that’s all.
@@seancampbell1383they didnt show his death either lol .
@@Puffdaddy248 yeah fair enough lol
I love the Dawn of the Dead remake and found out recently that it was written by James Gunn. Army of the Dead was just bad. Zack Snyder's movies can be good as long as he is paired with a good writer. If he does all the job (director, writer, cinematographer) it's a mess.
Even dawn of the dead og script was much better .as soon as snyder touch the scripts its toilet .og script didnt have any of those homophobic scenes snyder added them
I love how ppl say this like outside of guardians 1 James Gunn actually has a good track record as a writer or director lol. He's written hits such as movie 43 Scooby-Doo the belko experiment super slither and uncredited work on 13 ghosts. Like at least snyder has had actual hits the only successful thing Gunn has done is the gotg movies. I'll never understand how he's gotten to the pt where ppl think he's a good enough filmmaker to oversee an entire universe.
@@rams3955 kiddo he has never written movie 43 he literally said he directed only end credits sequence 🤣 .and slither super , all great movies unlike hack snyder snyder who wrote one dogfood that punch movie and gave up .hack snyder literally exist cuz of gunn wrote his dotd remake
@@rams3955 and scoobydoo are classics .u high on cringe
Hey @screencrush Love your videos but in this one the audio does not sync up with the footage
Darkseid was very much touchable in ZSJL. He kills the Green Lantern, gets distracted by the ring flying away which gave the Old Gods room to attack and nearly kill him. I'm also convinced that MCU Thor could have defeated Steppenwolf on his own in the climax of that film.
Yeah it was pretty laughable
I love both. The worst thing about either of them of the obsessed stans or haters each director attracts.
I agree, my friend.
I honestly haven’t seen any haters on Gunn’s side.. Snyder on the other hand 👀
Snyder fans are SIGNIFICANTLY worse than Gunn fans.
💯
@@iambuhlockay8007no, no, no, both are cringe af
In discussing Snyder's influences, him being an Ayn Rand/Objectivism fan I think effects his outlook as well. Something that in the comics made Superman who he was was Jon and Martha Kent, who instilled his kindness and love for humanity. In Snyder's Superman, when his parents were pretty much "F*ck em, you need to think of yourself first" attitude of helping people, it destroyed the foundation of what makes the character great.
It seems like a true superman portrayal would be a lot like All Might from My Hero Academia
Not at all .true superman is how new animated show portrays him .he was raised by the most nicest ppl in entire dc comics
Both great filmmakers. Got to say Zack made the only 3 DC films i really enjoyed. All the others were toy and jokey with the exception of the Nolan trilogy. Got love for James Gunn too.... i won't be investing my time or money in DCU going forward. Three films into what was promising to be an amazing universe DC pulled the plug and we never got to see how Zack's story played out. Are WB/DC gonna pull the plug again when Gunn's films are not well received? Are the board going to interfere with story lines and cut films getting other directors in to finish or reshoot ending of the films. Clowns. Why would we be invested in this? Let the directors do there job.
I loved Peacemaker so much, it’s the reason I am so excited for James Gunns DC universe, he will make me care about the smaller characters I don’t know that much about and as long as he uses the trinity as a building block and makes them a focus to build off of I struggle to see how this won’t be good
Vigilante and peacemaker are 10 times better written than any snyder character
Another banger of a video! Just the kind of video essay I was hoping for 🔥
i guess the audio is not really synced with the video
or my app is glitching :/
One possible thing working in Gunn's favour is that the executives have more or less finished their prior acquisition related shenanigans, and will hopefully know well enough to let Gunn work with all the support they can offer. It may also help if the executives do the right thing by screenwriters, actors, and other talent - which could give them a creative & goodwill advantage over the ponderous Disney Marvel Lucasarts Fox Empire.
an aspect I like about Superman is that as clark kent, he feels like an outsider due to him being literally being a foriegn being from space. he grew up in a traditional american home with traditional views and beliefs. He is inherently involved with the affairs of human questions of morals and beliefs, just from the perspective of someone who has the ability to make actual change. i hope james gunn gives us more kent than Superman, because he has the perfect opportunity change supermans place amoungst the heros from the one diementional good guy to the complex but familiar true hero
That rat-catcher scene always gett me tearing. Hope gunnverse superman feel the same
Somewhere out there, Gunn and Snyder are best friends having a beer and chatting, while their fanbases are fighting with each other
As a fan of both I feel the chat of who's better is a waste of time because they're sooo different I just wished WB would've let Snyder finish the full vision of his Snyderverse before we reboot and get to see Gunn's vision of a DCU.. its just heart breaking that we miss that kind of storytelling
The dream would be Marvel does a full cinematic universe and DC does a bunch is different directors at a time to make universes or trilogies as they please.
I feel like the Snyderverse should have been a trilogy instead of the starter of a cinematic universe: Snyder has a very distinct style of film that, love it or hate (I find it very hit or miss, to be honest, he is great when paying to his own strenghts), it s very hard to immitate, and a very strange choice for a tone setter that s gonna have to carry over to dozens of other projects. Him making a self contained feels like a smarter idea.
@@lvo9197 but we can't ignore the fact that WB was against him at every turn. Forcing him to not only put batman in the sequel but also tease a justice league, all he wanted was MoS ii.
I say they should've put him in the Kevin Fiege position, him casting Gadot, Mamoa, etc & working with those directors respectively . But instead they fired him off justice league when his daughter died and tried replacing him. He was never given a clean run the way Gunn will be
U do know snyder flopped right ? Mos , bvs snyder cut they all flopped .come to earth now
@@kamoheloiannk617yeah cuz he makes nothing good for WB after 300
@@Dikbeeg He did make army of the dead,, though, that was pretty good (not for WB, though)
Whoa whoa Snyder makes beautiful stories too. With the premise being that Clark is completely alone in the world. To it being his biggest fear. For zod to use “you are not alone” to emphasize Clark’s isolation, to cyborg who uses the lessons from Batman and Superman to overcome the motherboxes with “you are not alone”. That’s beautiful symmetry. You can’t say you didn’t go “whoa” when cyborg said that line.
If Bruce Wayne hasn’t figured out who Clark is yet, the saying my mom would’ve been a dead giveaway. Would have been less goofy to you , if he said, “save Martha Clark” maybe he did and that’s all Batman heard.
The point was Superman was more of a man to him there bc there were both men who had mothers
It seems rather heroic for Clark to be mindful of putting his family at risk by not revealing his mom.
And wow that’s a nit pick. James Gunn liked side characters bc you could change a lot and no one would care
Actually Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom does set up the DCU Chapter One Gods and Monsters, is what James Gunn said back during January, which is, "And then into Aquaman 2, which leads directly into our next few projects which I'm going to tell you about now." Also we know that George Clooney has a huge cameo in the film!
Ok, I never understood what all the fuss was about Reynolds Green Lantern Costume. It’s made of energy… it’s not gonna look like cloth!
Donners Supe also killed Zod.
He didnt .zod was arrested later and donner supes actually had a character and personality unlike cavil
I know the main thing that sets them apart, for me, is that Gunn actually enjoys superheroes. Snyder, IIRC, didn't really like superheroes and the only comics he actually liked were Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns, both of which he heavily misinterpreted.
Snyder is like that boys comic writer .he hates superheroes
WOW!!! THANKS for this, Doug and Ryan!!! And I never thought of the Marvel/DC, Gods/Men dichotomy! WOW!!! So thanks for that specifically!!! And "All-Star Superman" is the best Superman story of the first 85 years of the character. And "Super Pets" is one of the best DC movies ever.
I knew from the thumbnail where this was going 😂
James Gunn's style and tone works great for misfits like The Suicide Squad and Guardians, but a Superman movie? And helming the ENTIRE DCU? Having a hard time visualizing it now, but hey, we'll see..
Just think Joss Weedon basically helmed the beginning of the Marvelverse, and the coherency was a good thing. Their styles are not too different. Good character based simple stories.
Except he wont make every movie to fit his favourite character like snyder .snyder made every dc movie of him to fit his goofy bat punisher thats why they look desaturated
@@Dikbeegtrue
Superman is a misfit.. he literally doesn’t get accepted as Clark or Superman
@@firstlast9846 he does .hes literally raised by humans since hes was born .u talking about supergirl
One doesn’t use his followers to attack people!
Neither one has done this
Just Google synder.
@@Ironhart it's Snyder and you saying Google him doesn't prove anything
5:49. Was that timed for when you said landed?
Talia is in the League of Assassins, not the League of Shadows.
I know I should be happy for DC fans, but all this talk just makes me miss James Gunn at Marvel even more.
Marvel's biggest loss
I love James Gunn as a writer and director. I can't wait for the DCU.
There needs to be serious focus on the Lattern Corps
I'm a new subscriber. YT been holding out HIGH QUALITY CONTENT 👏
Audio is out of sync with video
Snyder doesn't make movies. He makes beautiful scenes VERY loosely connected to each other.
The biggest loss for the MCU is the DCU's biggest gain. Gunn was probably one of the only plays they had to try and save themselves.
After noticing that clip from the bear please make a video talking about both seasons it was so good the show
Doug has a very good point about Superpets. That was one of my favorite DC films in the past 10 years and nobody talks about it!
Amazing video, I liked Zack Snyder's versions of the characters and believe if the studio was patient and gave him the time to properly flesh out the universe it could have been one fans came to enjoy. But I'm excited to see James' vision as well, he's proven himself as a capable director and I know he's the best person to build this new DC universe.
This... I'm going to miss him
Carradine has Keaton's voice in that Kill Bill clip.
I still think Tyler Hoechlin's superman is the best one yet. Perfect Superman.
And whatever you said just tells why Marvel works better in movies.
I'm a big fan of "Doom Patrol", which also mixed goofy and serious very well 🙂
I’m genuinely rooting for James Gunn, but deep down I feel like his formula for comic book movies is gonna feel played out for me. I'm looking forward to the new DCU Batman movie coming, however, if this doesn’t work for me, then I don’t think I can keep rooting for the DCU.
Not really .he found the best formula others who tried to copy it failed
@@Puffdaddy248 if I said it’s gonna be played out for me, it will be played out for me at some point.
@@amirc.6146 i said for general audience
So one question? Where does the Blue Beetle film sit in this new DC universe? It comes out on the 18th of August and actually doesnt look bad.
Hmmmmmm literally will have to wait and see!
In Gunn we trust
James Gunn and Snyder are very different
Yeah snyder is a hack
Great video. Congrats!!! Got a weird warning message from Facebook about the content. :/
I would love to see you to a deep dive video on the Scooby Doo live action movies.
Gunn!
Justice for Cavill, didn't hear mention of Snyder also working with Gunn on Suicide Squad and their many prior collaborations, they are good in their own way ...however Gunn has his faults also, Peter Quill scene with high evolutionary , parental complex, mommy or daddy issues..Quill actually outs Gunn probably deliberate.. anyway Gunns films are replete with same constant theme..parent trauma and kids band together to heal.. he's good at ensemble films and having enough time to develop each character.. Snyder has vision.. their team up work is good
Justice for a mid actor who doesnt have half the charisma reeve had
cavill can't act
Bro cavil has a range of a table spoon
I’m so excited for James Gunns DCU. I can’t wait for the Lanterns castings
Who the fuck was responsible for the thumbnail? I couldn't help but laugh 😂
Your video and audio are out of sync.
James Gunn really *understands the characters* more than most of the directors DC has had so far.
In the long run, the DCU will probably thrive more given time. But Gunn shot himself in the foot by keeping remnants of the DCEU while rebooting the rest of the DCEU.
And I'm one of the few that actually supports Gunn and I tell everyone to just wait and see how the universe comes together. Wait until Superman: Legacy releases at least before you get your pitchforks ready for James Gunn.
But I do understand the outrage people have, it seems like Gunn is keeping his projects and cherrypicking his personal favorites or friends to continue, while erasing fan favorites like Henry Cavill' Supes. But he gets it, he knows Superheroes. Just let the man do what he does and THEN you can judge James Gunn if he made the right or wrong decisions. He argues with trolls on Twitter 24/7, but he hasn't given us a reason to doubt his creativity. There's the Flash, but that movie was already made and remade then recut and edited way before he took the reigns.
Just let the man cook.
I agree James Gunns take is exciting
Video cues ahead of the audio for anyone else?
samee
I will say this. They are both good. I like both of them
I will say this improve ur taste cuz snyder is toilet
I feel Snyder could make an amazing Star Wars film. He could deal with some strong jedi and SITH lords.
Pls no
He's making a movie for Netflix right now heavily inspired by Star Wars called Rebel Moon.
Star wars doesnt need snyder to ruin them .they already f ed
I agree 100% with your content normally but if you read the comics Superman is killed general previously so it’s not a vast departure.
I think that rather than asking if the DCU will be better than the DCEU, the better question would be whether it could POSSIBLY be any worse. Snyder's movies were so bad that I was forced to boycott any DCEU movies because I kept leaving the theaters angry. I have faith that Gunn will do the characters justice.
Found someone actually wise
Gunn makes movies about people, Snyder makes Objectivist propaganda.
Objectivist Propaganda????
@@jasonvoorhees310he's big Ayn Rand fan. He wants to make a movie based on Atlas Shrugged.
Like how he changed gunn's script to add homophobic stuff in dawn of the dead
The flash was great. By far better than anything Snyder did.
I hope I see the royal flush gang. Always a great cameo
I love the SnyderVerse but Gunn's DCU should be fun.
Improve ur taste
Batfleck is the the Batman hands down. Wish he got his own movie
The best part of the Snyderverse.
Your opinion
He's truly a batman
The best Batman fighting movie scene ever was directed by Zack.
@@roig8578 he can direct action. He just can't write.
As a person who loves a great script, I'm very excited for the Gunnverse. So far he has nailed his movies. I hope him overseeing things will maintain the standard, while allowing individual director voices to be heard
I actually like the do you bleed interaction lol
Not only is the analysis from this channel completely accurate but the edits for comedic effect are hilarious. Keep up the great work
Gunn & Snyder are like both sides of a coin, Gunn is a Director great at characters development in his movies whereas Snyder is a Director great at visualising his movies
The difference is that one of them is a talented screenwriter/director and the other one is zack snyder
I see,...
After i searched back Watchman (2009), i can see a full picture why a lot of people don't like Zack Snyder vision in MoS, BvS, ZSJL. Back in Watchman and so on Men of steel (2013) just get caught in the hate simply because...ZackSnyder is the director.
It is because.. people can not sustain the harsh reality (realism in movie) and some... ideologies in movies, they want only entertainment, they want joyful, they want goofy, they want shine and rainbows...and some how it seems like people don't want to put thoughts on movies... hmmm
With the look under his artistic style of filming, most of them having slowmo so people can see a "still picture" in the movie, people don't like that, unfortunately, most of them having dark- grey color theme, unfortunately, people also don't like that, most of them descript characters in grief anger sadness, unfortunately, people don't like that neither. Joysih goofy they said.. and then they spreading hate for him like he is a sin on internet, lots of people like his unique style - a bunch of group of hate spread i saw not seems like it.
It is kinda sad how people...human can be full of hate to other within 1 community aka DC community, and Zack Snyder's style is for blaming because they don't like his different style
There is option for ZS to be the DC director for future movies (only if he wants to get back, or WarnerBros just hit their head or some shenanigan happen) is make 2 Path of chain for 2 separate theme of DC, 1 path is goofy and color, 1 path is dark and grey. There, the way to help DC... or no, a bunch of mixed movies will just make the DC brand more worse
We are at a cross point where, the main difference will be Snyder vs Gunn, not Gunn vs Fergie.
The story telling and the dialogue was the main issue for DC, I think DC was supposed to be dark, funny, Gods becoming human becoming monsters and their redemption arches....unlike MCU where it's people becoming Gods and their back stories, sans Thor.
If Gunns DC universe looks like Guardians of the galaxy, what would be the difference between Thanos and Darkside, Winter solder and Redhood, Doctor strange vs Doctor fate and my favorite, Black cat vs Catwoman?
Am already fatigued with the constant stories from MCU from theaters to Disney, idk if I can handle more from the a DCEU perspective.
The main thing between Snyder and Gunn is Gunn makes great films and Snyder falls too deep in love with darkness and slow motion
I like Zack Snyder but you hit the nail on the head for sure. Good point.
I can accept the darkness, the slow mo needs to stop. It's not as "artsy" as people think it is.
And faded colors. Everything looks like a cloudy day. You could have Superman five feet away from the Sun and it would still look like a cloudy day.
And cringe dialougue
The one thing that sets them apart is that James Gunn has actual talent as a writer and director as well as an understanding of characters and Zack Snyder does not.
hating on Snyder is meh mid bleh
@@straycollective873defending a hack is mid .watch more movies
The DCEU is Nolan's fault, he set up Zack Synder to fail, I don't hold him personally responsible. Nolan pushed his idea of a gritty superman movie onto the studio. That set the tone for the films that people back lashed. There's a reason he doesn't want to make super hero movies anymore. He knows it's something he doesn't truly understand, batman was as deep as he could grasp it. It only worked because batman is a grounded character. The nolan film making style doesn't work for other characters, Especially not other DC characters. DC is supposed to be more fantasitical, more about the idealism and hope. It's not supposed to be cynical. Even Batman is supposed to be a hopeful character. It's nothing personally against Zack Synder, he's a genuine and kind hearted human being. I respect and admire him, I just think his vision he adopted for DC is wrong. The vision for a dark gritty universe he picked up from Nolan is something I disagree with. It's fine to have cynical takes on heroes for side characters and storylines like the watchmen, but the main storyline, the main characters should be hopeful. Should be idealistic, project idealism and hope.
I'm excited and hyped for REBEL MOON my favorite Characters in REBEL MOON is Darren Blood Axe and Jemon Hanshu
I'm rolling with Zack Snyder .. 🖐🏾🎤🤷🏾♂️
Lets pray u improve taste