🤔 Cement Board Or Uncoupling membrane, choose wisely.
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
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Which is better, a cement backer board like Hardie Backer, or an uncoupling membrane like Schluter Ditra. There are actually quite a few choices of both kinds, Durock Hardie board, Wonder board are just a few of the brands of cement backer board to choose from. Then you have uncoupling membranes like Schluter Ditra, Mapei Mapeguard UM, Laticrete StrataMat, and Ardex Flexbone just to name a few. So which is better? If you know how they work, then you will be able to figure that out. In this video I explain what the main differences between the two types of tile floor underlayments are, and I give you reasons why you should choose one type over the other and exactly why it is better.
All tile installed by Sal DiBlasi, Elite-tile Company, in the Boston North Shore area. This video contains affiliate links, which means I will receive a small commission if you click on the product link.
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A friend of mine who is a Tilesetter, did my home 20 years ago. He used the hardy backer board and just screwed the boards into to the plywood floor. Then installed the ceramic tile. About 1 month later..immensely loud noises occurred around 3am. I woke up and thought someone was firing a gun outside ( Yes it was that loud). I look around the kitchen and the whole floor was cracked along the grout lines and whole tiles. I told him what happened and he said " That never happened before and has done 100's of jobs with no problems. So now I know he installed it wrong and thus, ends the mystery. You have more knowledge of this business than anyone I met or saw on RUclips. Thanks for another great video and hope your doing well- Blessings.
U have a ghost sir 😳 😂
You are a fountain of knowledge for us DIY types. Honestly, cable should offer you a big contract to put your videos on their channels.
Great fit for Ask This Old House! Hahah (:
Don't take a thing away from how you transfer knowledge on RUclips. Make your point. Every second of this is valid & helpful and I thank you.
Thanks for that!
New subscriber here. Thanks to your video I am convinced of going with a membrane decoupler and no cement backer board. You are the first to precisely describe the benefits and wisdom of using this system (in addition to the proper floor support videos, thank you). I have 2 bathrooms ripped up and have not bought the underlayment yet and I thank you for perfectly explaining what I need to do!
when in doubt go with cement board or durock. it’ll always give you a great bonding surface.
Great video, Sal, thank you! I'm a young tile contractor in Colorado and have learned how to do basic tile installation from my dad, who is a custom home builder. Everything more complex, such as pouring a shower, installing Ditra Heat, etc. I have learned from you. I'm always open to trying new methods to get the best results. I just installed my first heated floor this week and while I must say that it's relatively labor-intensive, it's a great product that I plan to use more often. Glad to hear all of this from your perspective with your experience!
Glad that you found my videos helpful 😊👍
Thank you for sharing all your expertise! DIYers here. Last year husband and I redid our kitchen together subfloor up with woodlook plank LVT and people say it looks like a magazine. Hoping to redo our 80s bathrooms with tile when we can afford it so I am soaking up all your videos getting ready for the big day. Thanks for explaining everything for newbs like us!
For the first time ever I was happy to see a youtUbe commercial now let's get back to the haaaaddddyy baaaackkkaaa
That was a more logical and thorough explanation than even the manufacturers give.
All your videos are a true master class in tile work.
Thank you so much for making them.
Wow, thanks!
Always appreciate the effort involved in these videos, thx👍
Being said, would never use any of that on a bathroom floor.
I think when talking about deflection we forget most bathroom floors are 5 x 10 or less. I make sure to glue/screw down 3/4 ply & then bond the backer board.
I use either of the liquid membranes available at the big box stores & waterproof the entire bathroom floor.
I don’t care if an elephant stepped on that floor- it ain’t deflecting
Im so happy you explained this, I've been wondering for a long time. I started wondering when I was 11 years old, I'm now 40 yours old. video could of been shorter lol . but very good info keep it up!
Michael Prata ur asking an ole time ah to talk faster or more concisely?
Sal, thank you for the info you keep posting on RUclips. You are the one I go to for all info pertaining to tile install.
Glad to help
Sal, that was PhD caliber knowledge from a guy in blue jeans. I appreciate it! One burning question I have is what is the practical outcome in the tile flooring when shifting/settling occurs in the structure after using backer board? Grout failure? Cracked tile? Tile separation from backer board?
Thanks again, Joe
Depends on how much shifting, but all some or none.
Thank you Sal, I come across your videos during my research for tile installation. I've been considering using an uncoupling membrane product as you have described. Specifically for an upcoming bathroom reno. The info you have provided has given me the answer I was looking for. And I appreciate you emphasizing that one should "Follow Manufacturers directions" when using tile related install products. For that matter, that should apply when installing "Anything" in my book. Thanks for taking the time to put out the videos.
Thanks, glad you found it helpful
I always tell my customers, if I'm already going to be spreading thinset to install cement board properly, they might as well spend the money for uncoupling membrane and put it down instead of backer board and get the bonus of uncoupling, lighter weight, and faster installation. Good video Sal!
Thanks, cement board has become an inferior solution.
Hi Sal, thanks so much for the info. Just wondering what happens if you want to change the tile out in a few decades, can you strip it down to the ditra and lay the new tile over top or does the ditra have to come up too?
No. Imagine a super thin wall mini ice cube tray in a roll. That's what Ditra is. It's an Uncoupling membrane. It does just that. You spread Thinset/Allset on the floor in a wet soupy consistency that integrates into the mesh fiber on the bottom of the ditra. Then you mortar that ditra ice cube tray full then scratch lines with your Thinset/Allset mixed normal and lay tile all while wet. It separates the movement in the subfloor from your Ditra and thinset.
Hi Sal I've been watching your videos for years. Thanks for the awesome information! When installing any underlayment, whether it be Backerboard or ditra etc. If one needs to self level a floor, does it go over or under the ditra?
Under then ditra
Tiling my kitchen floor this weekend onto t&g chipboard (uk) was in two minds about choice of tile foundation until now. Thanks for your very detailed, helpful explanation of why the decouple membrane is best 👌
Great video, Sal! And very informative. I just subscribed. Thank you sir.
Thanks for the sub!
"backboard gives no structural strength to your subfloor" thank you Sal!
👍
very true. It's only to separate the tile from the house.
Hamilton Tile GA thank you sir for saying that. This is sharper finish. Ive had that argument so many times. No structural integrity with cement board. Have to explain that cement board has no grain to it, it flexes in all directions.
The beauty of the ditra is in the inverse egg carton design . The thinset is in the 'nests' , never attaching to the Ditra by surface contact but by a 'Velcro' like attachment . Think of LEGOS that snap INTO the adjoining surface . The thinset is surface attached to the tile back but the Ditra can move horizontally , not forcing the tile to move with it . Hardy back , cement board , dense shield are ONLY for a better base than drywall (including the green junk) ON WALLs only .
I disagree
@@j.johnson8360 this guys full of it
Sal I have to say I love your approach to tile work. I’m 62 years young and people wonder why I still do the work myself. My answer is that I still enjoy it. I like the way I do things and also I want to get the most out of my 44 years of experience. May I ask, how old are you and why do you stay at it ?
65, getting to old for this now
I did a little bit of research on Hardie products, and I was shocked at how hard they fight customers to deny warranty claims. Their argument appeared to be that their product was flawed by design, but was not defective in materials and workmanship so the terms of the warranty should not apply. From what I saw, the courts side with Hardie basically every time. Don’t buy a Hardie product for the warranty unless you have an army of lawyers.
That’s true for everyone of these products offering a warranty😀
Question Sal as I get different opinions on this and haven't located the answer in the TCNA handbook (I'm sure its there I just haven.t found it). Installing tile over perfectly level concrete slab foundation subfloor. Do you waterproof/seal/vapor barrier the concrete slab before installing the tile? Obviously an uncoupling membrane is optimal in every situation, but if the customer doesn't want to spend the money on ditra or the like, do you go directly over the bare slab or prime/seal it first? On the one hand you want the thinset to permeate into the concrete slab and back of the tile to promote a strong bond, on the other hand I can see situations where you would want a vapor barrier. Thanks as always!
If you want to go directly over concrete, then that is fine, however you want to be sure that the concrete has no sealers or bond inhibitors on it. as long as there is no standing water, most times the concrete can still be tiled. Do a water drop test on the concrete, if the water absorbs into the concrete quickly, more than likely the pores are open and suitable for thinset to bond to it, if the water beads or takes a long time to absorb into the concrete, it will need to be scarified in some way to open the pores. If the concrete is below grade and has some amount of moisture coming through, I would think very carefully about just tiling directly to it, not because the tile will not bond, but because the moisture needs to be managed in some way to mitigate all the possible issues that can arise from the moisture in the slab coming through.
@@SalDiBlasi Thanks, that's my issue in this tropical climate with the standard being thin concrete slab foundations, we get high vapor from the slab. Can't drop a layer of cheap 6mil poly under tile like we do floating floors.
Looking for solutions besides ditra (I always recommend ditra or it's counterparts everywhere, but most don't want to pay for it). Any less expensive but standards complaint vapor control method's I can recommend to my clients?
Hi Sal! I am doing Penny tile on a bathroom floor. What kind of backboard and subfloor setup do I need?
Now I understand decoupling membranes; thanks. would you recommend using this decoupling membrane for plaster?
Sal, when do you find Ditra XL necessary over the standard Ditra? I’m installing 5/16” marble tile but have 16” OC floor joists and 3/4 t&g subfloor… is the XL necessary or can I get away with the standard?
You actually need another layer of plywood and then the ditra. Floor has to meet L/720 deflection standard when installing natural stone.
Watching this builds my confidence.....but still so much to learn....thank you
Glad to help
In NZ we have Hardies 6 millimetre thick tile and slate underlay which is a fibre cement sheet .the installation instructions are to use cartridge adhesive like nail bond and flathead galvanised nails at 4 inch centres nailed over the whole sheet. I have laid hundreds of sheets over the years,in theory the nail bond acts as an uncoupling I guess and the tile and cement sheet become one.
Always follow manufacturer installation recommendations, if that is how they say to do it, then it is designed for that installation method, Your standards will be different to ours and you may have products that are not available here. All that being said, there are some products here that I would never consider using.
Hey sal thanks for this video :) I’ve learned a lot but I have a question. So I’m gonna be building a house in the next year or two and I am gonna have a slab floor instead of a basement. What do you recommend I do for that to tile it? Would I wanna raise it at all? Cause I figure I should use the membrane but does that slab move like a wooden floor would? I feel like I’m going to have to raise it up a bit at least cause I wanna put wanna of those long short drains in cause it’s going to be a walk in shower, so I just been thinking a lot about the design. I actually designed about 16 years ago and now since I’ll be building a home I figure hey why not build that bathroom I designed some time ago. Any info would be good :) also thank you for making these videos I have honestly learned a lot of stuff.
Very informative video. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Much appreciated
Glad it was helpful!
I will taking some items back to the box store and taking up your recommendation. Thank you.
Great Stuff as always! I just Did 650ft Wood look tile job over Ardex Flexbone..I wont use backerboard again! Also used Rigid level max spacers and was impressed with there ability to ensure it was a lippage free install! Ive been instaling Tile for 10 years and basically taught myself. Id love to come work with you on a shower or 2 for FREE because the learning experience would prove to be invalubale! Thanks for showing how to do things the right way! ..Nick from Jersey
Great video. If replacing tile and have removed all the old backer board, how will this new system work if I need to account the difference in height from the adjacent room (hardwood)?
Great video.. I've seen guys use nail guns to slam down hardiebacker dry without care to stagger seams in backer layer and over seams in the subfloor they are going over and they don't use tape over the joints. Hardie board goes down pretty quick with that method but boy oh boy what a recipe for failure.
I have seen this with track housing. It comes up so easy. In sheets. Should be a crime
Sal, thank you for your videos.I'm older and to me the uncoupling membrane is taking the place of the cork sheets only waterproof. Makes it convenient. Great explanation, Thanks
All of my tiled floors were done in 2003. Tar paper, mesh, mortar and then tile. I have demolished my bathroom down to the studs and bare plywood floors.
Still feel more comfortable with fibrerock board with LFT mortar and screwed every 4 inches with screws every 2 inches on the seems. I don't like reinventing the wheel if it's never been broken . Never had a problem with either, but personally, installed correctly my tear outs I've done over the years (older jobs from others) the tile was insanely stuck with fibrerock. I live in northern ontario and it gets cold here , alot of movement every year and I've seen more fails with ditra. Just based on experience and time telling the tale. Maybe because some don't know the proper way to install ditra , but with what I've just described , why reinvent the wheel and throw everyone off.
Mold oldschoolers that have seen me instalk ditra just can't get behind it , and say , "why, I've never an issue ? Good video Sal . Very informative. I'm "pro " board obviously lol.
It is not reinventing the wheel, it is just making it better and easier to use, lighter cleaner and waterproof. You don't have to use it if you don't want to. I would suggest you do a Schluter workshop, and get to know these new products. Knowledge is your best friend, still don't have to use them, but you will have a better understanding of them.
I just don't like the use of plastic materials if it's not necessary. I love levelling clips and use them on very large format tiles , even then, such a large amount of waste is formed by them. I have the same coffee can of spacers from Last year still going strong ,and use the same ardex rover mixing system to self level my floors for the last 7 years since I bought it. No waste . No plastic on my local landfill . I also build mosaic coffee tables on the small amount of spare time I get with most of my tile waste.
I believe this direction on our industry has been left behind. You would be surprised the customers I get from it. It's "trending " .
@@dustystinson1891 I hate how much waste there is from building houses. I always try to use everything
I have a subfloor that is needs some kind of board (like cement backer or plywood) because it’s a series of 2x8 planks. There are half inch gaps between these planks and some height differences. Can i put down a 1/4” cement board and then apply Ditra on top of it? This would level my floorboard and then provide the decoupling. I guess I’m really trying to avoid floating.
Would you put a backer or kerdi on a lid b4 you tile a shower lid with porcelain
Or just to the sheet rock
If you mean the ceiling, then i would use backerBoard fastened with screws and pl-400 or similar.
Ya i was going to use hardi but had some left over kerdi waste nothing you no
@@neiltropolis thanks man i was debating
@@TILEROB Many ways to skin a cat, but that's my way. Take care
Hey Sal, very good information, thanks. QUESTION- - - - I see the these non-coupling membranes suggest only 2" or larger tile. I need to put down a marble mosaic that consists of 1-1/6" hexagon pcs of marble, comes in 12x12 sheets. Is using a smaller mosaic for the floor ok? If not, what do you suggest?
Here is my floor prep: I have a 5/8" subfloor, and I'm adding 15/32" BC underlayment on top. I'm also beefing up floor joists that are 16 OC and "sistering" some 2x6 SYP onto my 2x10 (9-1/4) Floor joists to help with deflection. This will also help reduce my OC dimension and help with a slight leveling problem. (I'm Using 2x6 so they pass over the top of my wiring and plumbing running through the joists). I'll probably add some cross blocking too, especially at all new subfloor joints. Using deck screws for subfloor. I'll thinset the membrane to BC underlayment like you suggest, then tile the mosaic as usual.
Call your rep, in a residential tile job they will usually give you the OK for the smaller tile, and will give you a warranty, but you need to call and follow their instructions, which will usually mean prefilling the ditra before setting the mosaic tile.
Sal, do you ever use cork underlayment instead of the mentioned decoupling products?
Doesn't the mortar you apply under and above membrane get hard after installation, making the uncoupling membrane absolite? Seems like the only benefits of this membrane is the ease of carrying, and cutting into the area your installing tile.. I did hear him say something about indentations in the membrane but we go back to both sides of the membrane being completely solid after applying mortar? Thoughts?
Liked and subscribed. DIY'er here in Coromandel and grateful for your knowledge. Tiling my own bath and shower soon.Thank you. Cheers, D.
Thanks for the sub!
@@SalDiBlasi You're welcome. Old New Jersey kid here. Was nice hearing your accent. Reminded me of my youth in the sixties. Seriously, though, you've really helped me on the home front. I'm a jack of all trades (master of none:) and this bath/shower has to be done well. I'm finding you're the most down to earth and knowledgable man on the subject. Cheers, D.
Well, thanks again.
Oooh that's what i was looking for
Thanks 😁😁👏
But How much cost and where *YOU* purchase the orange underlayment for tile? A roll of 100sqft.
Pleaseeee.
amzn.to/308ZNAk
@@SalDiBlasi
Nice, thanks... was looking for a plywood underlayment but will be easier to find your video if title say PLYWOOD (have to lay 1,500 sqft 😱)
And have a option like *Fortifiber* but you give me better one
Thanks.
Hello Sal,
I will be installing a 1x2 mosaic tile on my bathroom floor and have read not to use the ditra system because they have a minimum of 2x2.
I will be installing 3/4 plywood and was thinking 1/2 cement board on top of that.
Do you suggest the cement board or is there another brand similar to ditra that you would suggest for that size tile?
Thank you in advance!
Call your rep, they will okay it for you.
I used Ditra for my bathroom floor tile. Easy to put down and tile over. Good product. Great video Sal, well explained.
In 2005 I mortored and screwed 900 Sq feet of concrete board (the heavy 1/4" that only comes in 4x4 sheets), then mortored porcelain tile. This is in a log cabin in the UP of Michigan. It was a huge job but that floor is rock solid and not a single hairline crack in grout in 14 years. The subfloor was 2 layers of 1/2". There was no bounce before install and there is zero bounce now, built like a brick sh*t house. I'm going to build a luxury shower and all the failures of shluter and similar systems (by "professionals") on RUclips scares the crap out of me. I've been watching Sal for years and I would trust him but I don't know about trusting any other.
Did you screw it while the mortar was still wet?
I do tile for living dítra look like great product the problem whenever you need to do a upgrade or new floor is a headache to remove
As always. Good information. As a professional, I apreciate your education to the general public
Thanks for watching
My only concern with using an uncoupling membrane over concrete in a normally dry basement, is even if any amount of water were to find its way into the dimples of the uncoupling membrane through the side or perimeter edges, it would never be able to dry out.
Sal, thank you for another helpful video. I had a tile contractor look at my bathroom floor to give a quote. I told him I wanted Ditra uncoupling membrane used over the subfloor. He saw that I had Advantech flooring which the floor has no flex whatsoever. Rock Solid. He proceeded to tell me that Ditra over Advantech subfloor is a big mistake because if you ever go to remove the floor, the floor would peel right up like nothing. He said Ditra will not stick to Advantech flooring and that if I wanted Ditra I should have put down a plywood floor because Ditra will stick or bond to plywood. Is this guy all wet?? Ive had other tile contactors look at my job and recommend Ditra. What Gives??? Thank You Sir
I guess all those hundreds of job that I have installed Ditra on Advantec will all fail. This guy probably wants to sell you cement board and is using it as an excuse to scare you. Just be sure to use AllSett which is Schluters high polymer content Mortar which meets ANSI A118.15 and also use Either AllSet or Set, their unmodified mortar, to install the tile, and you can get a Schluter Lifetime warranty. Here is one I did over Advantech some years ago, Allset was not on the Market so I used a different A118.15 mortar. ruclips.net/video/GXqjLGTwbnM/видео.html
@@SalDiBlasi Sal, you nailed it my friend. I have found that there are many contractors who use fear to persuade you to use only their favorite methods because they are only looking out for themselves.......... not the customer. Thank you for all you do and your many instructional videos. Im sure Im not alone in saying this, if you lived closer to me, I would be hiring you to do my tile work!! Thanks so much for your help
Hi Sal I use mapei uncoupling membrane all the time and I put it down with a 1/4 square notch trowel. The issue I have with it is it seems to curl up in places along the walls or where you cut it. It's kinda a pain in the butt
I guess I missed the instructions on out putting down the membrane? Is there adhesive or does it float?
Sal what do you think about using the ditra over a wedi board on a floor?
Hello Sal, Great videos, what are your thoughts on tar paper over plywood, then wire mesh and instead of a scratch coat setting tile directly into the mud?. I did not know about this product at the time I was told to use the method as I described, Thanks, Anthony
You have to define your method better, if it is an unbonded mud bed it is perfectly fine old school method, if however you are referring to a Jersey Mud job, it is one of the worst hack ever. How thick is the "Mud" you are referring to and what is it"s composition.
Hi Sal, can I Instal the Ditra over linoleum whic is on top of a plywood subfloor? Does the Vynil need to be removed ? or can I lay mapei eco prim grip over tbe vynil and then install the Ditra....?
The issue i see here is, yes this membrane may be flexible, but tile and thinset/mortar are not meant to flex. So what's the point of a flexible subfloor if your main floor isn't flexible? Also, at the end of the day you're tiling over plastic... I could pull off a tile from this membrane even after 30 days of cure. I don't know how we've come to the point of thinking tiling over a plastic sheet is a job well done.
The house will move under any substrate. The membrane is to separate the house from the tile.
I think you missed the entire point of how uncoupling works, there is a link in the cards and the description to a video that explains the system. A wood subfloor on a wood frame house will move quite a bit, the goal is to protect the tile assembly from that movement.
I think the failed logic behind all these "systems" is that they're banking on everybody tearing out whatever tile is installed on the membrane within 5 yrs so it doesn't have to last, and the membrane creates a separation layer to make demo really easy? haha
You misunderstood how the system works. There is no 'flexing'. If the floor flexes it can't handle tile period. No, you could not just pull a tile off ditra. It's not easy to pull up the tile or the ditra once put down properly and cured.
Love the video! So informative! Thanks so much!
You are so welcome!
Sal my man. A true expert. Love you big man.
😊👍
A floated floor then becomes one rigid assembly and will transfer movement through. An uncoupling membrane can be tarpaper which was used for years and years before all of these hi-tech products came out.
Schluter has great customer service. They will actually help you if their product fails. The other thing I liked was if you use Kerdi in a shower, you don't need a vapor barrier. That's Schluter policy, though I'm not sure if TCNA would agree. Btw....nice clip, Sal.
Really thats good to hear. Because I herd they will have nothing to do with you. Once you start having problems. Thanks for sharing
Great Video Sal... Question.. Would you recommend an uncoupling membrane or hardi backer under river rock on bathroom floor? I feel the uncoupling membranes void might make the river rocks easier to flex and move. Any advice would help. Thanks
Since most uncoupling membranes limit the size of the tile to no less than 2x2 inches, I would say maybe you have a point. On the other hand, Schluter will approve of smaller tiles on a case by case basis.
Hey Sal i saw one guy put a mortar bed on to the ditra and then the next day apply thinset and small tile, is that an exceptable solution, he was a homeowner and wasn't worried about warranties.
🙏🏻❤️🙏🏿 Always uncle Sal. Aloha🤙🏼 Hawaii Tile Renovations LLC
Sal,
Again, thank you very much for sharing your experience and knowledge.
I plan to replace kitchen tiles(14 years old)- some of them cracked, sitting on metallic/cement "bed".
And I planned to use cement boards to add rigidity to the kitchen floor, especially that tiles cracking shows some movement.
After watching this video, I m not so sure what would be the best approach.
May be to install Ditra instead of cement boards?
What would you recommend and why?
By the way your recommendations about Kerabound T worked perfectly- it was perfect to put tiles on ceiling, no problems at all.
Thank you
Cement board has no structural value, so it will not stiffen the floor. You need to determine you deflection to see if the floor is capable of supporting tile ruclips.net/video/74BDTI67S1M/видео.html then if floor is good for tile, I would use an uncoupling membrane, much better product
@@SalDiBlasi Thank you
Good information Sal. Can this product be installed over liteCrete that haves cracks all through it in an apartment building.
I am assuming that that your floor is a gypsum product, best to contact the manufacturer of the product you intend to install and get recommendations on how to do it.
@@SalDiBlasi Thank you Sal.
Hey Sal, Im doing about 600 sq ft of living room in porcelain tile. I previously did my kitchen in the same tile using the Ditra.
Something I didn't think about is, tearing the tile out. The Ditra seems to leave the fleece on the plywood subfloor.
Weird question, can you nail down the Ditra like you would Durarock and lay your tile? Clearly, it wouldnt be waterproof but i wonder if it would perform the same being nailed down and not bonded with thinset to the plywood subfloor. That would make my next tile change in 10 years, way easier.
Please don't try that. Installing a floor to be easy to rip up will end badly.
Sal, how do you deal with 12x12 ceramic tiles, and mosaic tile (floor application) that are different thicknesses? Help?!?!
With the hardy backer (spelling unknown) even if it was countertop backsplash? Or is there just better ways to go about it?
Can I install ditra directly on an old smooth tongue and groove (about 2 and 1/2 inch wide and 1 inch thick each) hardwood floor? I think you would call it structural. It is the original floor from when the house was built about 100 years ago. It was not added later. It is still in perfect shape. I will appreciate your advice very much. Thank you for a very good video.
no
I love the hideebacka!
Hi Sal, lots of great info as normal. Can you suggest the best way for me? I plan to put tile over a floor that is linoleum over hardwood. The linoleum should come up fairly easy. Just wondering what I will need to do after I get that up. Thank you!
Hardwood has to go
@@SalDiBlasi thank you for the reply. So I'm assuming that I need to to pull it up and replace it with plywood?
@@mattwilkins1597 yes, hardwood moves way to much for tile, there should be plywood under the hard wood, unless you mean dimensional lumber plank subfloor when you say hardwood.
@@SalDiBlasi Very interesting. We have the plank under the hardwood. House was built in the 50's. BTW, I'm very glad that you showed the other uncoupling membranes. Gives me a little more piece of mind using it. And being a dog person the one with the bone design is cool. Thank you again.
This guy knows his stuff. I am considering ending my career with cement board and doing Ditra.
That would be a smart move.
I havent watched all the video but there are rules for substrate thickness pre tile based on joist spacing.
Thank you for explaining mechanics of this. So informative.
Glad it was helpful!
Given that my washing machine weighs about 250 lbs dry (probably 300 lbs full load), should I put an uncoupling membrane between the concrete subfloor and the tile in the laundry room?
Irrelevant, uncoupling serves to protect from cracks from movement, not load.
sal. great stuff, i plan on installing Schluter®-DITRA on concrete.
what if the concrete is painted or has peel and stick tile on it. i assume it needs removed and cleaned..
also, what thin set/ mortar product can i use from say lowes or home depot? i cant find TEC 338 that i saw you use in one of your videos.. box store sells the Schluter®-DITRA but not the thin set.. thanks in advance
Paint and vinyl tile have to be removed and the concrete has to be porous, make sure that any residual adhesive left by the tile does not act as a bond inhibitor. On concrete you can use unmodified thinset to install ditra and the tile, ANSI A118.1 is what you should look for on the bag, buy premium, not the cheap stuff.
@@SalDiBlasi ty. been watching you for awhile now..
@@SalDiBlasi all the bags i see says Meets ANSI A118.4 and A118.11 ...im sure you dont shop at lowes or homedepot.. we have a manards but it appears to all say Meets ANSI A118.4 and A118.11 in the bag...
Hey Sal would a liquid membrane like Merkrete 7000 or other brand be ok to use on a plywood sub floor to lay tiles instead of these you showed us? I plan on laying wood looking plank tiles. Thanks
No
Hey Sal - do you find demolishing tiles with ditra difficult? You can really clean up tiles well without all these backing products but I was wondering how hard it is to clean a floor with Ditra.
I have the video for you. ruclips.net/video/nY3WSe08n2M/видео.html
@@SalDiBlasi Thnx Sal - does that mean you can just knock the tiles off the top and reuse the ditra underneath? Would a power tile scrapper work if you need to do a large area?
Sal I am about to tile my bathroom floor. Is this correct...plywood, then thinset, then Uncoupling membrane, mortar/tile? I am going to use the Mapei Uncoupling Membrane Mortar, can I use it for laying the tile and adhering the membrane?
To install the uncoupling membrane mortar to the plywood, you need a modified Mortar that meets ANSI A118.11. Mapei also recommends the use of a modified mortar to set the tile on the uncoupling mat. The Uncoupling membrane mortar you mentioned is an unmodified thinset, it can be used to set the tile, but will not work to install the membrane on the plywood.
Is it ok to use ditra (or similar) on 5/8" osb for 12x24" floor tiles? Also what is your option on scratchcoating kitchen floors? (aquabar, mesh, mortar)?
I'm refinishing a basement. It's a cement floor and I want to tile on top. I do not want to do any wood subfloor. I also recently redid the drain pipes going to the sewer main. With all that said, which is the best membrane to use? I want to decouple and I also want to somewhat waterproof because one of the rooms is a bathroom. Toilet and vanity only (no tub or shower.)
Never put plywood or backer board on concrete, any uncoupling membrane will work, as far as waterproofing Laticrete Strata Mat is a great uncoupling membrane but not waterproof.
@@SalDiBlasi not sure that I understand what your saying in your last part of your comment. On one hand, your saying that the product is good for water proofing, yet it's not waterproof? Would LATICRETE HYDRO BARRIER PLUS make it waterproof added to the membrane?
Strata Mat has Hydration vents in the membrane, Full of holes, the others have no holes so are waterproof.
@@SalDiBlasi Thank you for the knowledge. I really would like to get the benefit of waterproofing. This is a basement and during the summer I'm subjected to a lot of humidity. I have a dehumidifier with the pump on it. But if I'm going to put this kind of money into my home, I really don't want to have any headaches with tiles cracking and I would like the benefit of less dampness. Besides the washer dryer I'm setting it up to be like a little man cave with all the creature comforts ie full Wi-Fi, big screen TV on the wall, a wine cooler, couches, and a massage chair so if I on my wife is doing laundry and we want to just chill out watch a little TV and have a glass of wine a, beer or soda, it would be nice and comfortable down there. Also going to do a floating stairs.
Sal, I put wonderboard down in my bathroom already with mortar and screws. Could I put Ditra over the wonderboard or should I just continue with cement board?
No point putting down ditra at this point.
Sal you have some great videos. So in your opinion what is your preferred membrane?
I mostly use ditra, however they are all more or less the same.
The difference is now clear. I am ready to use uncoupling membrane
Hope it went well!
Enjoy cracked tiles
Wtf @@davidtortorici8531
Sal. I'm in the process of building my house and there is a partial basement. Main level will have concrete slab that will transition to a plywood subfloor over basement portion. What would you recommend for installing ceramic tile over that joint (slab to plywood)?
You will probably have to have an expansion joint there honored all the way through the tile.
@@SalDiBlasi ok. So there will have to be a break in the tile where that joint will be. Contractor is saying that nothing I can do will prevent it from cracking over that location because of the two different subfloor.
@@jabrown3rd Basically yes.
You have used hardie and durock for so many years and never had a failed floor or shower if installed properly? Now it is not good because of some new orange plastic on a roll? I'm confused¿
So if something can be improved and made better, it shouldn't be? Why do we have cars with anti-lock brakes? Why not keep the old CRT tube TVs? why do we need smartPhones? Just because something works, doesn't mean it can't be improved upon. There were plenty of problems with Water in water out shower systems, cement board on a floor is not an ideal product to work with, it is heavy, dusty and has dangerous silicates, it is difficult to work with, and the list goes on. So just because something works it doesn't mean it is the best possible solution to a problem.
Sal DiBlasi gotcha.. Thanks for the reply you truly are a Master of your craft. Cheers from Jersey!
@@SalDiBlasi Sal, what would you is the most common problem with a water in water out shower pans?
could an uncoupling membrane be used over cement slab relief joints in order to avoid relief joints in tile? for example 17x17 slab dived in 4 sections by relief joints. want to do a versailles pattern but won'r really be possible with the reliefs.
If I use hardie backer, then can I use the matting on top of the hardie backer?
What do you think of blanke permat
Good product.
Excellent, can't beat experience 👍
Thank you for your teachings! Much appreciated
You are so welcome
Hi sal what the best to use over wooden boards
Hi Sal , I just called Schluter today. I was trying to find out if there is any Ditra or any of product can be help with ICC Rating , which is for sound control . When we working on HOA units . And, Schluter answered , they don't have it right now , everything is basic on working on the concrete slab . would you recommend any of 55+ IIC rated product that work out on the second floor with floor joist substrate? otherwise , I think I will put the whisper step underlayment and then screw down the 1/4 hardiebacker board.Thank you
The only product I know Schluter has for sound reduction is Ditra Heat Duo, but it is only effective on concrete, no point using it on a wood subfloor.
Well covered thanks.
very informative video. A tile Contractor told me that the thicker hardie backer board was for floors and heavier tiles on the walls.
He actually has it backwards, the thinner board was made specifically for floors and should not be used on walls, the thicker version for 16" stud spacing on walls.
Firstly, thank you very much for all your efforts in providing clarity for DIY'ers like myself! Question for drop in bath tub deck with 3/4 plywood deck, would you use kerdi or ditra on top of the deck? I'm assuming kerdi but correct me if I'm wrong. Thank you kindly
Kerdi Board, or ditr, not Kerdi sheet membrane,
@@SalDiBlasi so schluter ditra or kerdi board on the deck, what about the sides? Kerdi board? And connect them with the kerdi sheet membrane?
In the uk most wooden floors are floorboards so I use the hardie as a uncoupling membrane wouldnt lay as flat
You may use it as an uncoupling, but it does not work as one.
Sal DiBlasi if it was a ply wood sub floor then yea a membrane would be by fair the better option, due to the floorboards having a wavy effect iv found I can get great preparation results by bedding the cement board in place then screwing it down.
Hey Sal what if your subfloor is an 1” 1/2 low and you have to bring the whole sub floor up to match existing tile in separate rooms?? What would you use to bring up the sub floor before using the schluter
So that would depend on the tile you are installing, usually a large format tile installed on Ditra will have a total thickness of about 3/4" or just a bit less, so you need another 3/4" build up. 3/4" plywood would probably be the easiest option, or you could pour some self leveler, or even install a mud bed. If the tile is a smaller format then Ditra XL instead of the regular ditra.
Can we use both Hardie backer and a tile fleece mat over a wooden subfloor? Will it help more
Not enough info, but usually no.
@@SalDiBlasi I have both 6mm HB and fleece mat for small bathroom (2m x 1.5m). I bought it half price from a friend, but my wood substrate seems solid but has some imperfections around, so I thought I'd be safe, plus I'll also add underfloor heating on top of the mat. Is it a bit overkill?
Can you use those rolls to lay tile? How can you put mud on those rolls?