"YOUR WELCOME" with Michael Malice
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- Опубликовано: 23 янв 2024
- Michael Malice (“YOUR WELCOME”) invites the world-famous media personality and addiction specialist, Dr. Drew, onto the show to talk about Plato vs Aristotle, the prevalence of dark triad personalities in positions of power, and how uprisings are inevitable when leaders ignore history and make the same mistakes.
DR DREW
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MICHAEL MALICE
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Intro song: "Out of Reach" by Legendary House Cats thelegendaryhousecats.bandcam...
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Dr Drew took questions from supporters exclusively at malice.locals.com/post/5174183/dr-drew-took-your-questions
keep it high and tight
Not your peers on Twitter? Isn't everyone on Twitter equal or because you are a cewebwity you are above that?... what a big ego you have Michael.
most ppl are sheeple and the rest are a minorty vote and or don't have power
Dr. Drew: "I agree with you, Michael."
Michael: "And that's where you're wrong."
Lol I think that sums up this whole interview. Dr Drew is very pleasant. This was probably the most contrary I’ve seen Michael with a guest in a while but Dr Drew holds his own so the interview moved along.
@@aprilvanveghel3790 Short answer: Narcissistic anarchist. And I like Michael in many ways, but he has these shortcomings. Drew was going out of his way to be polite and agreeable.
@@Gurra_Gforce Malice pushes back on his shows only to the people he respects. He treats the people he really doesn't like with complete respect and rarely argues with them or contradicts them.
Michael gets rather emotionally simplistic in his political arguments, and it's unconvincing. When the topic gets more complex his ideas should rise to meet them, but instead his strategy is to go lower and it's armchair talk by a guy who runs nothing.
It’s because the genuinely respects Dr Drew.
I'm Canadian. Our current, most important, social "ethic" is safety. We hold neuroticism as a virtue. It helps explain almost everything that happens up here.
Absolute hysteria.
We're also a nation made up of narcissistic, entitled petty tyrants.
speaking of which please be safe 😂😅😢😢😢
Could you give an example of how something like this affects your life as a Canadian? I hear the big stories but would love an individual's perspective.
Anyone willing to trade liberty for safety deserves neither.
I was at Skank Fest Vagas 2 and Dr. Drew was there, invited on stage, and Roseanne immediately asked if he was sorry for his covid opinions 😂
😂😂😂 God bless Roseanne.
😂
What did he say?
37:01 100% agree! A lot of people LOVED Covid. The drama, the hysteria, submitting to authority, forcing others to submit, living out their OCD wet dreams (like sanitizing all their groceries).
There are a lot of people out there who secretly wish it never ended.
People still love it. So true
I lived in a major US city during the peak hysteria. Covid gave people a reason to live. It gave their lives' meaning. Being part of something big was something missing for them prior to 2020.
Basically I saw first hand how Covidism turned into a religion, or a cult depending on how much credibility you give it.
When are we gonna see Dr. Drew and Dr. Peterson have a chat?!! It’s been far too long for this not to have happened.
My favourite thing about Your Welcome is that it always has me adding to my reading list. Excellent.
When Malice rebuked "the golden rule", I thought, finally, he went too far. And then he made his case... Malice is a genuine paradigm shifter and one of the most brilliant minds of my lifetime.
I think he perfectly explained his case initially but then poorly backed it up with the awful "guy punching you for saying what he doesn't like" analogy.
"The golden rule" (in both Mathew and Luke) establish a prerequisite for doing good as defined by Christianity. So it is do Christian Good when 'do unto others' is applied. Malice is assuming this qualification does not exist.
@@BigJoker it was the perfect example. Do unto others as you would have done unto you forces everyone to construct their own measuring sticks of behavior and morality without any consideration for other people except oneself. Which only when applied to good people is a good thing. Malice's example was giving this blank check to a psychopath who doesn't mind getting punched in the face or getting into a knife fight.
I loved hearing Michael's assessment of The Golden Rule because it was exactly the thought I had when considering my relationship with a 'friend' who was treating me badly. She had told me once that she treats others the way she would want to be treated. A lightbulb went on above my head when I realized that her expectations are not the same as my expectations. We both thought we were right because we were following our internal sense of what was acceptable behaviour. It helped me feel less animosity towards her when I saw it from this new perspective.
That's an indictment of the minds living in your time. Don't be such a cultist.
As a truck driver I would love to go back to the covid era. There was no fucking traffic it was glorious. It was like being omega man.
Everyone should be terrified at just how quickly, how seamlessly so many politicians, corporate leaders, and media went full Authoritarian, literally overnight.
This was awesome. Please have Dr Drew back for a longer show.
IM SO HAPPY I was given the opportunity to enhance my day by listening to these two have an hour long conversation with each other.
My rooms a mess, don’t tell Jordan 😂
I remember listening to Dr Drew on my Walkman working the graveyard shift over 20 years ago. This is one of my favorite episodes so far.
Three cheers for Mike using several heavy hitting points to immediately turn the interview into Something Interesting.
Few interviewers are capable of turning an introductory statement into a third rail that immediately connects your guest into their most powerful message.
people need to be close to the results of their actions. the more removed from consequences things go awry
I agree.
Thomas Sowell has a great quote about this
“It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.”
We've got this problem of busy-bodies / control-freaks / power-hungry parasitic megalomaniacs in centralized institutions at points of great influence far removed from any accountability e.g. in the EU, the USA federal bureacucracy, various think tanks, various NGO's
And some of these exhibit the dark triad personality pattern.
I hope the book Political Ponerology by Lobaczewski or the ideas in that become more popular. I fear they may be exceedingly relevant today
I live with my husband who is opposite me, I nought US tickets to a concert last year that HE was allowed to attend, I was not. Proximity means nothing. Expanding your brain and having principles means EVERYTHING.
I’ve really enjoyed Malice since finding him in 2020. Growing up in LA listening to KROQ, I started listening to Dr. Drew on Love Line, circa 1990 as a kid. It’s great to see these two debate with mutual respect, in pursuit of liberty and free thinking. LFG✨
When I think I've been following him for 10 years. He used to be on fox red eye with gutfeld .look up some of those old shows
I agree w/Michael. There a lot of people who would love to go back to the Covid days, especially in California...one of the many reasons I fled.
There are a lot who never left.
Been a Fan of Dr. Drew since the Love line days
Same he always was the cool smart doctor that’s a bit of a gym bro
Perfectly normal perfectly healthy.
Who was the other older German lady before him? Dr. Wein.....?
We can't let them go unpunished.... Period.
One time a commenter commented a comment just to try and help someone's algo juice.
Best dialogue from their last crossover:
Dr. Drew: I think I may be a libertarian.
Malice: Are you on the spectrum?
Drew: No
Malice: Then you’re not a libertarian.
Dr. Drew has Google Fiber
" Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. " -------- Voltaire
I'm only 19 minutes in, and this is one of the best interviews I've seen in a very long time. Get him on with Carolla! God, I'm old now...
They still have a podcast in case you didn't know.
@@badlaamaurukehuwho? Drew or Mike
Oh, what a treat! These two together are even better than they are apart.
I love these high level discussions. Keep up the great work! I’m sharing this with my friends and grandkids.
Wow, heard you on The Rubin Report today, got curious searched you online and found this channel. This was so interesting. Now I have another excellent show to watch 🤩🤩🤩
I would love to hear this conversation extended out another two hours, just the one hour was great but not enough.
Didn’t know Dr Drew was so based
That's why in Christianity we have the verse about taking the plank out of your own eye before you try to deal with someone else.
The pod I didn't know I needed and a collab i didnt realize i wanted. Legend was right. The wise man considers himself a Fook. .
I enjoyed loveliness too much when I was17
You both consistently explain anarchy exquisitely 1
There is a huge piece missing of the “golden rule”: Love God with your whole heart and whole mind and love others as you would like to be loved. Notice, attention and honor of God must be present to work. Also we each have free will. Religion cannot be compulsory. May God Bless you all.
It was so disappointing how this got in the weeds every time Drew made even a simple assertion.
And then Malice invoking morality immediately before placing himself above others by justifying blocking when other people behave like him.
It started out great and quickly devolved. I prefer Michael as a host and dislike him as a guest. When he gives the other guy more room to expand on his beliefs and flesh them out without immediately crushing each tiny detail before the guest can even get to the point, we get a lot more to think about. I'll be fair and say Drew does sometimes draw out a point, but this show would do much better with a slightly longer runtime.
Everyone's a hypocrite, and everyone should be mindful and working against their personal unique displays of such. Whoever it is that I like, Michael or Jordan Peterson and many others, they have their moments where their blindspot / double standard / hypocrisy shows up. I do, too. Let's just all keep working on ourselves to keep the hypocrisy to as much of a minimum as possible.
You perfectly expressed everything I thought and felt during this video. It was painful to watch.
24:50 and 27:05 (lost count after that): Where Dr. Drew sounds like the actual anarchist with practical, real world ideas; and Malice sounds like an out of touch intellectual serving up pedantic, generic platitudes
agree. Michael's description of anarchy reminds me of hippie communes
@@travisadams4470 'The most effective and efficient unit of social function is the smallest' this was a brilliant point by Drew. Of course Malice blows it and jumps on the idea of this being inefficient for commerce -- as if thats the most desirable standard? Covid proved just how useless overly "efficient" supply chains are. RESILIENCY is the most ideal goal for communities & localities, only then should efficiency be pursued.
There is ample room here for a rich discussion with practical solutions explored... yet i don't hear any of the infamous youtube anarchists discussing any of that... its as if they're stuck in their own parallel pseudo-academia.
Agreed. Who shall we bag to have these discussions.?
Malice can interview a hippie commune surviver
Golden Rule problem: Posting your list of the behaviors that you would permit me to use with or toward you, does not automatically authorize you to consider that granting me those behaviors makes your use of them moral.
You should consider doing longer episodes. Your interview with Bret was so good I could have watched it for another hour. And this one was kind of a mess and going in circles right up until the end, it only started getting good in the last five minutes and then it was over.
Great episode and general list of topics
Love engaging in deep and honest discussions in this world filled with liars pretending to be heroes.
Dr. Drew needs to speak with Josh Slocum
Such an unfortunate last name
This is a great talk. Pretty sure ill need to watch 2 or 3 times to actually get it
The golden rule segment was tough. The spirit of the "golden rule" vs the letter of the rule is what matters. It's easily solved by invoking the quasi-inverse, i.e. "dont treat others as you wouldn't want to be treated."
Love these two. Thanks for all you do!
Malice being intentionally dense about the Golden Rule, he has trolled me to the core.
The government that has the gold, gets to enslave you to mine more gold.
Yes this was really frustrating. I usually can see where Malice is coming from with his contrarian takes but he seemed like he was almost purposely misunderstanding the Golden Rule.
It is simple the Golden rule can be worked around to harm others in many ways but just imagine a sadomasochist following the golden rule for a clear example. Sure, the golden rule is nominally a good rule most would benefit from, but it is not a end all be all rule for all to live by. Another example would be along the lines of apostasy or blasphemy where the zealous could in their mind think if they ever did such a thing, they would want others to punish them for it. Of course, those people never think it could happen to them because they are so pious, but I hope you get the overall point.
He probably meant the Golden Lex of the Uncanny Valley.
Same. The person who punches you in the face because you said something he doesn't like isn't doing it because he wants to live in a world where that's the norm. That's a guy who knows he's a bully and would not accept being punched for any reason.
That's not the golden rule on display, that's hypocrisy.
He touched on why it was bad at first, which I totally got on board with. But then he made a bad analogy that fell flat.
Great show again MM. It is so, in my opinion, not because it’s entertaining, but because I learn & it makes me think critically.
Excellent conversation!
What a fascinating analysis. Dr. Drew synthesizing modern psychiatric diagnostics, contempirary cultural shifts vis a vis celebrity culture, and historical periods of excess, trauma, and scapegoating. I wonder if he is aware of Renee Girard's theory of mimesis?
Great convo guys
As always a good talk that makes you think. Thanks MM.
Malice has figured out his own little fortress and how to defend it. Doesn't matter who or how someone comes at it, he stays inside his walls. Jordan Peterson in his interview kept reframing his questions and his positions, while Dr. Drew just said whatever and let it go.
I think that is very fair. Malice has great critiques of democracy, but when asked to present the case for anarchism in anything other than a broad generality, he tends to just handwave.
I’m annoyed so much time was wasted on the back and forth.
@@SnoWhite2420 I found his answers about needing to do things at scale particularly confusing when trying to argue for anarchism. It would seem to me larger systems will inherently create oligarchical structures over time.
I can't remember which podcast had him boil down his view of anarchism as more of a representation of a social construct. He described it as a culture or a behavior. A philosophy. Principles we all live by, not a governing system.
And he won me over.
Yet here, he argued it as an alternative to a Republic. Which again brings it back to being a system of government. (or possibly lack thereof?)
I think the hardest part people have with embracing it is that it will always be ideal and never attainable. Nothing ensures freedom of association (or lack of association) unless everyone is on board. If a large mob shows up on my land ready to seize it against my wishes, I have no recourse. (incidentally, this is still true in our current system) My freedom of association is non existant without some force to back it up.
Anarchy always leads to government.
High level conversation
Great conversation! Thanks gents
Dont tell Jordan my room is a mess
Don‘t tell Jordan that his daughter loves dark triad guys.
Great podcast and great guest. Love Dr. Drew.
Great interview! Don’t usually comment in these but I didn’t know Dr Drew before this convo. I’ll find more from him.
I think both of you really read Paul. Best philosopher in history. Quoting all these demented narcissists get us nowhere.
We serve a King. His kingdom is not of this world.
Need longer episodes. I could listen to Michael debate his beliefs all day.
My grandmas anarchist
🤣
24:50 To answer Drew's question, where Michael obfuscates, a path to enact anarchism must first include, before all else, self-enforcing mechanisms for sense-making and meaning-making, at the community level. I recommend the book "LIVING THE TRADITIONS IN TODAY'S WORLD" it details how the 12 traditions of AA actually helps them exist/thrive outside a gov't, w/o laws. (CH 9 is titled "AN ANARCHY THAT WORKS") Any group could emulate these principles, so long as they are bound by a common purpose/goal and a common commitment to seek growth & meaning.
that was so good!!!!
I watch a shit ton of interviews and this one was fantastic
1:16 He started lifting when he was young and never stopped.
I love this.
Golden rule as a Christian after study is love God and love your neighbor. Those tenants extrapolate to a extremity that leads to a better life. Those basic principals don’t cover complicated situations but for the sake of text, if you start there, you’re off to a good start.
One of my favorite episodes!
Great conversation, Michael, one note though: hysteria doesn't have anything to do with histrionic personality disorder. Hysteria comes form ancient Greek hystera (womb) and has a very long tradition in both Hippocratic/Galenic medicine as well as demotic magic (as it was connected to mythical Gorgo/Medusa). Histrionic disorder comes from Latin noun, histrio (actor), characterised by attention-seeking (often sexual) patterns of public behavior.
Malice’s arguments about how democracy is not ideal because of the inevitable rising to power of elites also applies to anarchy. Unless you had some outside power enforcing the continuance of anarchy, human nature makes it inevitable that they’d just reform into a new system, and the system would not be ideal because people aren’t. Ultimately, all of his complaints about democracy are really about human nature. And that’s not fixable.
Anarchism, much like Communism, is nothing more than a pie in the sky ideal of what they'd like society to be. Only difference is that communists can get to the point where they take power and see their terrible ideology lead to colossal failures as it doesn't hold up to reality. Anarchists are incapable of even reaching the point where they can implement any of it.
Like you pointed out, they both completely ignore human nature and are doomed to fail. No matter how hard you try and come up with whatever models you want your society to run by, we will never get to the point where we all hold hands, dance in a circle and sing kumbaya. That's simply not who we are.
Great episode. The political discussion was really flat. Obviously, that is not Dr. Drew's main thing, and Malice left a lot of assertions just hang, without explaining them. But I was really surprised that, when it came to the comment about cancer, Malice did not know the difference between "absence of evidence and evidence of absence."
"Cuddle parties sound like a good idea." Worst single thing I think I've ever heard Malice say. no, they never sounded like a good idea, ever.
Varmantown is sooo good. Thanks for sharing it. Great interview with Dr Drew too. Take care
Dr. Drew has always seemed like a "Down to Earth" kinda guy to me. And he and my brother in law look similar so...I like to tease my bro calling him Dr. Drew.
He could easily be a wishy go along to get along media/entertainment/LA kinda NPC but... I've always found him to be reasonable and honest. He was great with Adam Corolla who I think is incredibly funny. Doc Drew seems like a decent guy and a good doc. Glad you're having him on.
Dr. Drew's first stop since leaving YMH lol.
Tom Segura seems pretty apolitical to me. Wonder if Dr Drew left so he could more easily speak his mind without getting the Jeans' into trouble.
Great show.
Michael has done it... Anarchist
27:05 -- I love Malice, but here is where he loses me. Dr. Drew tirelessly asks him, no fewer than four times, what his opinions are on how to model a path to a stateless society. He gets generic platitudes like "liberty, freedom" or some heady, theoretical answer with zero practical meaning.
Dr. Drew finally answers his own question like a real, practical anarchist would, the most effective unit is LOCAL. And no, Malice, the goal is not efficiency. The pandemic proved how useless that is. The goal is RESILIENCY. Try mutual aid networks, building parallel systems, reinforcing existing alternative ones, and promoting antidotes to the meta/meaning-crisis.
Another solution may lie in groups and/or society at large borrowing ideas & principles from existing systems that have successfully operated & thrived parallel to official institutions. An example Dr. Drew may be familiar with is the 12-traditions of AA. I recommend the book: "Living the Twelve Traditions in Today's World" for further reading.
it includes a collection of the early founder's experiences which lead to the formulation and implementation of the traditions -- and it explores what alternative ideas did not work and why.
(spoiler alert, Ch 9 is titled "An Anarchy That Works")
@@sovereignpsyche7968That's fine until the cult creeps in.
Appreciate this, but that's the Socratic method, you can't give answers, you can only ask questions. That way when the idea comes it sinks in.
Framing resiliency as the goal, paired with your suggestions, is top notch.
The feeling of gratitude and kindness is better than any religion and it’s free un like the cults of religion we have today
Out of the gate.
"Low self-esteem."
Outstanding!
man this was brilliant
With all due respect, Mr. Malice, you were right when you said an entrenched oligarchy is inevitable. It is inevitable in all thinkable social systems, even anarchism.
I love Dr. Drew!
That was fun!
Great episode Michael! Thanks for this one! Hope he comes on again sometime soon! 🤘🤘
Government by "small units" = subsidiarity. It works.
Dr Drew never let us down.
The silver rule beats the golden rule. Do NOT do unto others what you would NOT have done to you.
The rule beats both rules. Do to others before they can do to you.
Thank you so much for this when are you going to be able to have him on again?
I’m a Canadian and you’re right. Sad part is there are a lot who think like the one you quoted. ‘It’s not so bad’. Oh yes it is
Hi Guys thanks for doing what you do❤
The exegetical implication of the golden rule from the Christian texts is this:
Do unto others... ...you would have them do to you (IF YOU WERE THEM - empathy) which accounts for how they percieve things.
believe me or not, i had never heard about this guy but now i really like him already !
29:30 This back and forth made me chuckle
Mom Jeans! This is an unexpected surprise. Love it so much!
Dr Drews the man
Malice’s critique of the golden rule is spot on. The bobiverse bopks address this really cleverly in the last book. It’s corrected as treat other as THEY WISH to be treated. Just food for thought. It would be hard to say one or the other is better
superb
So basically, the balance of power is out of whack in the U.S. cause it’s either the federal government over-stepping in areas of business when they shouldn’t and/or businesses (corporations) having lobbyists go in and monetarily incentivize congress members to push more control over other private sector industries and other companies. Neither of them are functioning how they should be cause there is too much personal incentives not too. A fusion of government and corporations or what is actual fascism benefiting only a managerial class (corporate boards and government “representatives”). The balance has been disrupted and the government isn’t acting like a republic should and the corporations aren’t acting like capitalism should by getting rid of all competition which isn’t capitalism but monopoly. This is how revolutions start and countries as they were known fall.
God it is so nice seeing Michael actually push back on his guests
"The prevalence of dark triad people in our society".
I see this issue constantly being involved with youth sports. I see these parents and coaches all the time. When you know what to look for they stick out. This is also the root cause of many of the "problems" plaguing youth sports today.
Michael is not used to getting pushback. He gets ruffled easily
I didn't even sense it as pushback, really. I liked that Drew gave him space to expound on his ideas before responding, but Malice didn't seem to like that.
Malice does seem to have his prepared lines and quips and when Drew says "Keep going" or "Say more" you get just enough hesitation that it seems like discomfort. I think Malice handles it well, but it's a rare side of him. Eric Weinstein is great at that, too. "Say more" is such a great way to see if someone is on autopilot or actually has deeper thoughts.
Augustine's city of God. I deeply believe and help my patients giving them my time off-line. I do it in a corrupt system that sucks my blood in a new way every day. It's rough being a doctor these days. I am a Christian who loves the outgroup. I have always been on the outside because I just won't go with the crowd without understanding why.
Honestly, Dr. Drew is such a solid person. I love the guy. I really, really do. Thanks Doc! Ya freakin legend
My son and I saw the movie Napoleon. Marie Antoinette was beheaded. My 21 year old Son said 95% of the people that are watching this movie have no idea why her beheading happened, and how we are eerily heading in the same direction.
Bro when malice brought out the "and people who don't have a degree in English would be lecturing you that you don't understand medicine,...en mass" I think that line literally turned him into an anarchist. When he responded with "mmeuh" that was the last breath of democracy leaving the nation.