FULL VERSION 1992 - Seles vs Navratilova - Wimbledon
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- Опубликовано: 25 сен 2020
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© 1992 All England Lawn Tennis Club (Championships) Limited
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© PertSnergleman™ Channel
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Thank you for your gracious use of this classic match!
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PertSnergleman's Review:
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Navratilova complained twice to the chair umpire about the noise coming from Seles, but it didn’t prevent Seles from continuing her quest to add a Wimbledon trophy to the ones she has won in the Australian and French Opens.
Seles said, ”The chair umpire asked me twice about it. But, Martina didn't complain. She said, 'Miss Seles, would you keep it down?' Then I tried, and at one point I was.”
Navratilova reacted angrily when she was asked why she chose such an occasion to make an issue of Seles’ noises when they had played 11 other times without complaint by Navratilova.
“Are you putting me on the defensive here?” she said. “I am not saying I lost because of her grunting.
“Am I on trial here or is grunting on trial? . . . I want to see what that guy writes tomorrow. Unbelievable.”
If an umpire decided to give Seles a public warning, any subsequent misdemeanours would be punishable by penalty points until the official felt the distractions were deliberate. The referee would then be summoned, and the player could be disqualified under the rule regarding ‘hindrance'.
The match, especially the third set, was as rollicking as the news conference.
Playing Seles, who is half her age, on a grass court for the first time, Navratilova was immediately put under pressure by an opponent who gleefully passed her - left, right and down the lines - at every opportunity, and was broken in the opening game. 
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People complain about Seles grunts but no one mentions LOUD GRUNTS FROM SERENA OR MARIA. They are worse.
They you really dont watch tennis because It was very commenting, specially sharapova, ask agnieska radwanska
@@thisp666 what did you say? You don’t make sense.
@@quiddy then*... i think if you are a Smart person you Will understand the rest only must change the they for the then* then you really dont watch tennis...
@@thisp666 “Then you really don’t watch tennis because it was very commenting, specially Sharapova, ask Radwanska”
No I still don’t understand what you mean by “commenting” as used like an adjective here.
@@quiddy seriously? I dont speak english and i learn by my own, if you dont like, you can simple comment in somebody else, i mean what IS the problem ? Did i hurt ur eyes? Are you going to die because my english ? Goodbye
Super 👍 Thanks for your uploads.
Truly incredible match by Monica. 42 winners and only 9 unforced errors across three sets and a first serve percentage of over 74% - and all that against the best grass court player ever. Possibly Monica’s best match... ever? She certainly wasn’t the same player in the final. She bowed to the controversy over her grunting and played silently (and poorly;) ) or to quote Bud Collins “no fire at all”. Such a shame as the final could have been a classic :( She certainly would have won Wimbledon at some point if it weren’t for April 30th the following year. I reckon in that parallel universe where she wasn’t stabbed she would have won in 1994 but then again, we’ll never know :(
I consider the best grass courter ever to be one of Court, Graf, or Serena. Serena has 7 Wimbledons against the strongest field in tennis history, which is more impressive than Navratilova with 9 Wimbledons against a horrible field. Remember Serena faced Venus (Venus is by far better on grass than Evert, who was Navratilova's main opponent on grass), Davenport, Sharapova, Henin, Clijsters, Mauresmo, Kvitova. Navratilova faced Evert, who is weaker on grass than Venus, and that is it. Graf averaged 7 slams per grass slam while Navratilova averaged only 6 (9 Wimbledons on grass, 3 Australians on grass) and while not a great grass field better than Navratilova as she faced Navratilova (even slightly old Navratilova is atleast equal to prime Evert on grass), Novotna, Davenport. And then Court who averaged 6.33 grass slams per grass slam (11 Australian, 3 Wimbledon , 5 U.S Open), again higher than Navratilova's 6, and faced a way tougher grass field than either Navratilova or Graf, but still weaker than Serena.
Navratilova was also way past her prime for this match, and was losing to players even weaker on grass than Seles like 14 year old Capriati in straight sets the year before, Harvey Wild, and Conchita Martinez. Also lost easily to Jana Novotna, although Novotna is much better on grass than even peak Seles.
Anyway a peak Graf is much better even on grass than a very old/way past her prime Navratilova, who much younger and closer to her prime than this lost easily to Graf in the 88 and 89 finals, so no surprise Seles was destroyed by Graf in the final after barely beating a very old Navratilova, a much easier grass opponent than a fully prime Graf. Plus having barely beaten Graf on clay right before this, predictable she would lose very easily on grass.
@@grantgoffin4774 "predictable she would lose very easily on grass." Very nice reasoning, still I am not entirely convinced, especially when she managed to reach the Wimbledon final at 18, not given to many players, and defeated grass superstar Navratilova. You just don't allow for the factor of luck in tennis matches, one that you can't quantify and introduce into your logical reasoning. Monica even in 1992, with her mind fully on the game, had a chance to win. The real question is, how much of a chance? Then you can start your reasoning afresh, and reach an estimation of the odds. Did Monica have a 50% chance, certainly no way according to you. What about a 25% chance? Or 10%? Or 5%? But to say that her loss was predictable, as if her chance was practically 0% seems to me an unacceptable conclusion, not even a reasonable one, as it does not take into account the factor of luck, of unpredictable happenings. Didn't Bud Collins opine in favor of Navratilova? Would anybody have predicted that Seles would be harassed, and as a consequence, given her unsure social self, psychologically handicapped by complaints about her noise in this tournament? A reproach so extraordinary that it had practically NEVER been a factor before this tournament in her hundreds of matches? I find more reasonable the approach of the commenters, who are true experts, and who speak in terms of favorites, preferences, and personal bets.
So difficult to say. Worth noting that Monica tended to put in very flat matches every couple of months. In 92 alone, she had straight set losses to Capriati, Sabatini, Graf and Navratilova, and a very out of sorts loss to Sanchez Vicario in Canada. I think Monica did have some problems bubbling away below the surface that really only came to light after the stabbing, which may be one of the reasons why it took her so long to come back. She said later on that her comfort eating had started many years before as a young teenager, and talked about how difficult she had been finding it to deal with the emotional pressures of the tennis world. That perhaps started to manifest itself in 92 when she went for a 3 month patch without winning a tournament, from June to September, and then in 93 she took a three month break off due to illness - so that meant that in the year leading up to the stabbing, she'd had 6 months of tour time without winning anything. As with so many of the great players, you just cannot keep the dominance going year after year - it's too mentally and physically exhausting. We've seen players like Federer, Graf, Djokovic and Navratilova have big dips after dominant runs. It seems very possible that Monica would have done the same.
@@th8257 Monica had an ankle injury which affected her in LA and Canada (she still reached both finals), but from the US Open onwards she was undefeated through to the end of the year and had only one loss in ‘93 prior to Hamburg
@@th8257 "I think Monica did have some problems bubbling away below the surface that really only came to light after the stabbing". It sounds dramatic, enigmatic, and intriguing, but in reality this is all too fuzzy, vague and unfocused. I am rather curious about that diagnosis concerning young Monica's problems, as I have reviewed most of the literature published on that subject. What's required are solid and precise words, and citing some evidence.
Don't all teenagers, so sensitive to their extreme emotional swings, have "some problems bubbling away"? And especially female teenage professional tennis players, young adolescent girls for whom any aspect of life is an occasion for "bubbling" emotional exuberance? And whose lives are marked by constant uprooting, year-round int'l traveling, limited educational opportunities, and a chaotic, difficult social life? Monica Seles, as a teenager, and in later years as well, was constantly a tangled bundle of problems, a result of all the complicated pulls on her unusual personality, background, and life.
What precisely can be explained with such generalities about 1992 Wimbledon? That her game already was affected by the stress of all those latent worries? That this killed all her chances at Wimbledon? Are you implicitly referring to her childish love of sweets and propensity to gain weight? But in those days Monica Seles's weight varied between 118 and 120 lbs, or around. Please, can you explain clearly what are, in clear language, those bubbling problems you are alluding to?
[Later comment: I am not surprised that there never was any answer to the last question. And, in fact, there can be none. Monica Seles lived all her life with "problems bubbling away", but none below the surface. They were visible to all observers and experts, including her family and her few friends, and journalists for whom she became a source of fascinating puzzlement. And that, well before the stabbing, from her arrival in Florida in Dec. 1976; after the stabbing during her long crazy withdrawal from competition from April 30, 1993 to Aug. 1995; and after her return to competition; and even after quitting tennis in 2003 up to the present. Monica Seles lived through dealing with problems bubbling all the time, but none "under the surface". Just read her two books, those of Nick Bollettieri, all her statements to the press, as well as the major articles by tennis officials and journalists eager to follow all the bizarre incidents punctuating any of her moves, step by step. And for comparison's sake, to check how other young tennis players were able to confront their difficult moments and reacted to adversity, read also the book by resilient Maria Sharapova, systematically trained into dogged Russian resilience by a smart father unwilling to let obstacles block her progress; and Andre Agassi's remarkable biography, OPEN, on how he rebelled against a dictatorial father and tackled his own problems head front.]
Grass more than likely wasn't going to be Seles' best surface but, knowing how exceptional her record was as a teenager from the moment she turned professional until the stabbing (which is still unmatched to this day in the open era), to get to the final of Wimbledon in only her 3rd attempt, gives a pretty good assumption that if she had been able to continue her momentum she more than likely would have won Wimbledon. Unfortunately that never happened after the stabbing, but one thing is for certain we were all robbed of a rivalry with Graf that could have been similar to Evert and Navratilova.
Nonsense.
Seles was only on par with Steffi in a time when Steffi lost tons of matches to Sabatini, Novotna, was thrashed by ASV at the FO. She never had the means to threaten an in-form Steffi.
@@carrerau7138 shut up. So glad that others are seeing how biased you are. FO
@@carrerau7138mano e só observar os números entre 91 e 93 e seu argumento fica duvidoso. Os jogos foram duros e Steffi ficava de cara amarrada coisa rara em sua carreira.
@@vivoangelomatinhosYes, between 1991 and 1993 Steffi won 3 of her 5 matches against Seles. That is 60 %.
Even though she was in a deep slump, missing 6 (!) slam finals, losing 7 (!) matches against Sabatini and 3 against Novotna.
@@carrerau7138well some of Steffi’s worst seasons came after stabbing..
What a fantastic match
are you joking, it was boring
@@mikiafu reow.
Was a match I'd only read results of. Net rushing. I like
If Navratilova was complaining about Seles' grunts here, imagine how much she would complain about the grunts coming from the Williams sisters and Maria Sharapova!
Exactly...so unfair. Glad Martina lost.
And to think that Martina was the one that brought the Williams into wta as a scout!
@@rattata30What did Martina do?? 🤔
@@carrerau7138 she was the one promoting the Williams as a talent scout for the WTA and I believe for yonex
@@rattata30 What does that mean, “promoting“?
And did Navratilova discover the sisters’ talent??
Looking back, Martina's complaint about Monica's grunting was disgraceful. Absolute gamesmanship. Martina had never complained about Monica's grunting in any of their previous matches and never would again. When Steffi Graf took over as world number 1, it was reported that Martina was trying to form a "Stop Steffi" team in the locker room. It's hard not to think that she was doing the same here against Monica
Yes, but, to be fair, Martina went to Monica after the match and apologized to her.
What would a “Stop Steffi team“ have looked like? 🤔
@@carrerau7138that's a very good question! I suspect Martina's efforts didn't get much traction.
@@thomasmiles340Martina was 35 going on 36 here. She wasn't a child - it should never have happened at all.
Many players and the press were also critical of Monica Seles' grunting. It was viewed as a form of gamesmanship designed to distract her opponent. Couple this with her aloofness towards other players, and she was not warmly received during her heyday. She went so far as to not grunt in the final against Graf, which didn't do Seles any favors since she proved without a doubt that she could turn her grunting on and off like flipping a light switch.
Come Seles non c è nessuno adorabile bambina con un sorriso d capricciosa ha vinto tutte campionesse tutti i titoli insomma una grande Monia
She never won Wimbledon....
One of two Seles wins against top a 10 player in Wimbledon!
The other one would come in 2000 against then #9-ranked Arantxa Sanchez.
In those days, Monica's roar was a disadvantage. What people say about her is that her voice is so loud that it disturbs concentration. of the other player But as time passed, people went to watch RUclips reruns of Monica's voice. It makes watching tennis more fun, playing and hitting tennis. Her fierce style made the audience seem to be involved in the match, and afterward, the male and female tennis players roared loudly. and the doctor concluded that roaring loudly Makes tennis players breathe better
A lot of tension between these two here - not sure that at this stage of their careers there was much love lost between them. A lot of passive aggressive digs at eachother through questioning line calls and through their body language
Orrible what they did to Monica. Compare her to the screaming players that come after her....
Well it could be argued they should have buckled down on Seles's grunting and the grunting of a few others much earlier than this, since if they did we might not have gotten some of those terrible screamers you refer to now. Seles and a few of her peers were the start of the disgusting grunting trend, which the tour should have nipped in the bud when it was beginning in 89 and 90, and not let go anywhere. It might have avoided the travesty it has become today.
@@grantgoffin4774 Nadal and Djokovic are just as loud as the women.
I thought Monica's grunting was a natural part of her game similar to Martial Arts.
Today it has become so loud and deliberate....it has become a screaming match between players.
Andrea I agree. Monica was treated so unfairly and it definitely affected her game in the final.
Exactly Andrea; it’s a double standard - also, it was okay for male players like Jimmy Connors to grunt; no one ever called them out!
My mother in the 90s when Seles was screaming while playing : "Turn the volume down, the neighbours think you are watching a porn " haha
Monica Seles!Greatness!She won Martina on grass!
Indeed!! And not many did. And in only her third tournament on grass. Incredible!!
But lost the final :-) Graf was clearly better on grass
@@WONGLER Monica only played Wimbledon 3 times before the stabbing...her first in 1989 at 15 years old.
Steffi first played Wimbledon in 1984 and did not win until 1988.
The stabbing changed the course of tennis history.
Do not forget that martina was nearly 36 year
15-year-old Capriati did it even in 2 sets the year before.
Che giocatrice fantastica la Seles....
What? No pat on the back from Martina? But I was always was told she was such a good sport. 😜
Mónica is magic
Looking back, I think this match took a lot out of Monica emotionally and left her drained for the final. On the BBC, Virginia Wade said this match was the first time she'd ever seen Monica look jittery. I think Monica didn't 100% believe she was going to win this match and you could see how relieved she was at the end.
I remember Monica being very jittery when she lost 06 16 against Steffi in Wimbledon 89.
At 1:36:48, does Martina say, "too good"? Sounds like it. Nice!
Great win
I liked a lot the matches Seles-Navratilova for the differents styles: the excellent angles and two handed blows of Monica and the beautiful game to net of Martina. Navratilova was 35 years old, but on the grass was already a Queen. Then good Monica!
That little incudent at 1:34:05 so typical of their matches in the early 90s, when I i think there was little love lost between them. Both trying to get psychological dominance with little things like Monica dancing around fo threaten Martina's serve, and Martina noticing, glaring at Monica then stepping away to break Monica's rhythm.
Maybe Martina became a Seles fan after the stabbing because she could use this against Steffi?
Is there any way to access the BBC broadcast in the corner?
Luvv chrissy..wow her footwork... not big take back.. they did let the ball drop vs hitting it early on rise like today.. but the racquet Chrissy uses are teaspoon faces... wow
Nobody else could beat her like this
Steffi destroyed a 4 years younger Navratilova in Wimbledon 1988, you clown.
@@carrerau7138 Then she went on to destroy Seles in the 1992 final, a final Seles would never make again in her career.
@@broncoguy4862 Seles is 2-5 win/loss against top 10 players in Wimbledon.
Her other win came against #9-ranked Sanchez in 2000, Arantxa being far over the hill by then.
Great match!
Are you going to upload the other semifinal?
Thanks!
Martina won a tiebreak in the 1989 final against Steffi, not 1988 as Bud Collins claims
If I'm not mistaken ..in 1988 final graf vs Navratilova also went for 3 set with Navratilova won the 2nd set 7-6 ..in 1989 it was the 1st set 7-6 won by Navratilova
❤❤❤
Holy crap. That grunting and shrieking was horrible. Seles was a two handed powerhouse, but man, I can see where the entire current gen of ladies get their screams from. But man did she play so well.
Is this the same Navratilova whom Seles fans dismiss when Graf beat her in the late 80s for being 'old' and 'past it'? This is peak Seles, against an even older Navratilova and it looks like the 'old' and 'past it' Navratilova took it to Seles pretty convincingly.
A shot that Monica could have used to keep Martina off the net was the lob. Not only in this match but in other matches she rarely employs that shot. It would be an added surprise element I felt she didn't incorporate hardly at all in her game.. Just curious about that.
Have you ever played the sport ?
Usually when you are on the court you hardly hear anything because you are concentrating so much. Some players do scream long after the ball us hit. Sharapova salbelenka etc
I just realized that Both Monica and Martina are lefties
It's a great cry but i love best tennis player Monica Seles
Best Serbian tennis player you mean.
THATS HOW THE COOKIE CRUMBLES, NO-ONE CAN STAY NUMBER 1 FOREVER. AFTER STABBING BY GRAF FAN, SHE CAN RETURN EASILY. BUT AS HUMAN AS ANYONE, TO COME BACK REQUIRES MENTAL STRENGTH, SHE DID HER BEST TO COME BACK, CREDIT TO HER. BUT THATS SPORT, WITH OR WITHOUT STABBING, A SPORT CAN WEAR YOU OUT.
Martina really showed her age by this time. Slower to get to the net, first serve rather dismal, the volleys not quite as lethal as before.
But at 36 years old almost wins the match!! More impressive Martina than Seles!
She made the final. She would do so again in 1994. Not too shabby, and certainly more impressive than never having won it even one time.
@@broncoguy4862 Navratilova didn't make the final in 92.
Evert was shamelessly biased. So glad Monica won and enjoyed so much moments of silence after the winning point. I took them some time to recuperate 😂
Evert: “If anyone can beat Seles it is Martina.“
I think Steffi killed all of Chrissie‘s few brain cells when she beat her up 62 61 several times in 1987-89.
@@carrerau7138 Steffi hadn't beaten her for a while. Look after your own brain cells
@@Dbdbe1 Steffi had beaten Seles in 2 of 3 matches in the last 16 months.
And she beat her again two days later. With 62 61 - the worst slam final loss ever for a #1 player.
Evert?
"Steffi doesn't look as dominant as in the last year anymore."
(Chris Evert on Steffi Graf, spring 1988)
😄
@@carrerau7138seles was 3-1 in slam finals overall vs graf . Who needed stabbing to inflate her slam count. Never forget that
@@deepakmahajan170 Sanchez was 2-1 in slam finals even until 1994.
She beat peak Steffi in 1989 at the AO.
She beat Steffi on fast hard court in 1994 at the USO.
Seles did neither.
Steffi won the next 4 slam finals against Sanchez..,
Bud Collins! is he the best or what?!
What.
No he is not
Navratilova other planet! Ok, she lost, but....at 36 years old she almost wins the match! She was impressive!
Bravo! So exciting. One of the high deeds of Seles's short glory years. And Navratilova is such a magnificent athlete with beautiful strokes, so much more interesting to watch than Steffi Graf for the pure beauty of her motions and actions. Seles is like a little devil come to demolish the established superstar of the volley game. Even when Navratilova manages to intercept the ball on her racket, she can't control her volley so powerful is Seles's hitting. Based on this performance, it's clear that young Seles blew her chance in the final by letting the criticisms about her FOR-TEH grunting get to her, paralyzing her habitual style and distorting the efficiency of her strokes. What is strange is that nobody really forced Seles to control her grunting and tone it down in the final against Graf, she did it all to herself.
Nonetheless, Martina's complaint in this semi-final bears a strong part of the responsibility of upsetting and undermining Monica's concentration. Martina felt later that she had to apologize to the teenager for affecting her so deeply. Seles, at 18, convinced herself that this was not the end of the world, there was no malice, only tension and irritation exacerbated by the competition for high stakes. It was only "partie remise", her chance was only being postponed to another year, for there still lay ahead many, many more years for her to get her shot at the Wimbledon title. As Graf would say, "aufgeschoben, aber nicht aufgehoben" (postponed, but not cancelled). But the fates have a cruel way of deceiving naive youngsters ignorant of the vagaries of life. Seles never got another chance to reach a Wimbledon final again, let alone to win it. She would have the rest of her life to meditate about this lesson.
Well said @Roo Bookaroo... well said.
This was arguably Monica's greatest victory - specifically in hindsight and perspective.
At this point, undefeated in Slams for so long, Monica proved here just how magnificent a competitor she is, despite many commentators saying otherwise - Seles was destined to win at SW19... until 30 April 1993 - 4 years to the day of her first WTA Tour victory.
PS: I will upload that '90 NY 5-setter for you one day... one day... stay tuned!!! ;)
Oh stop - It was an incredibly close match and that means that Martina handled her quite well- Seles is an amazing player but very ungraceful to watch compared to the fluidity and athleticism of Graf / Martina
@@iliasdf2595 Personally I love Monica’s totally unorthodox style. Taking groundies so early on the rise so they were virtually half volleys and taking the service returns inside the baseline she pretty much created the blueprint for the modern power game. Her timing was truly exquisite - and there’s nothing “ungraceful” about that. She was also very sporting and humble in her outlook. All of that is much missed in my opinion.
@@tomogden9503 Even too humble. Monica Seles let herself get intimidated by the complaint about her grunting. She took it too much to heart, and wanted to show that she was a "sporting" girl as you call her (i.e "a good sport"), and spent the final concentrating more on taming her grunting instead of clearing her mind and putting all her mental energy on bashing the ball. As so many coaches love to repeat about the course of a match, very often "ITS' ALL IN THE MIND". It was Monica's youth and lack of social confidence at 18 that did her in. At the end of the first set, it's clear that Martina was never bothered by Seles's grunting. What bothered her more effectively was Seles's unrelenting powerful shots and her spectacular unerring passing shots. Losing 6-2 Martina was already deeply annoyed before Monica even stepped on the court for set No. 2. The grunting, all too obviously, was nothing more than a pitiful excuse on Martina's part. She came to regret her nasty recriminations so much later that she went out of her way to show signs of friendship and concern to distressed Monica when she was living like a recluse from competition following the stabbing disaster of April 1993.
I never really forgave Navratilova for how she treated Seles.. Seles did and there became good friends. Seles deserved a Wimbledon.
Wim 92 Navratilova was only a shadow of her former self, the Wim 88/89 when she played two great finals against Supersteffi.
No wonder, she was almost 36 years old now.
You mean gunthergraf
@@ChicanoPhD What gun?
And what is a "ther“?
Imagine what the outcome of this match would have been if Monica could play on grass? Maybe she would have won this match over the winningest player in Wimbledon history and reached the finals!
Wait…
And the cracked down on seles to make sure graff would win the final
Why would they make it sure?
It was grass and the fastest court on which Seles ever beat Steffi was the FO‘s clay!
@@carrerau7138 because Stefi was the tennis princess and seles was a grunting commoner. This match was NOT fair.
BUT stefi was a superb athlete probably better than Serena. Had stefi been taught the modern way of playing tennis she would have won 30-35 majors.
@@Largecanyondog What should have taught Steffi?
Grunting and screaming? Brainless ball bashing? Folding like a cheap tent at crunch time?
@@carrerau7138 western grip forehand, topspin backhand. Like Justine. Not the old wooden racquet strokes. All the teachers in the 80’s were old wood racquet guys.
@@Largecanyondog Thank God no “modern teacher“ ruined Steffi‘s strokes.
Evert was so nasty towards Monica as a commentator near the end of the match at 1:39:17.
Lost a lot of respect for both Chris and Martina after this match.
the male commentator is super annoying
Chris Evert was a horrible commentator! She's improved, but not one of the best commentators.
She has only improved since she is old enough to have gone senile which means she can't say as many outright stupid things as when her brain was still functioning.
@@travisstrong5389 😬😬😂😂😏
@@travisstrong5389 I needed this laugh
I like her for some reason!
Couldn't stand Seles.
Taking nothing away from Monica, Martina was not at the top of her game here, looking tired and missing some balls that she didn't usually miss, even if Seles hit the ball very hard. But an epic win for Seles, who unfortunately missed the championships one year - was that in 1991 ? Too bad about that. Graf destroys her in the final - getting revenge for at least one of those French Open titles lost to Seles. Graf however had the winning record against Seles 10 to 5 and with Navratilova it was even at 9 wins 9 losses with Graf, Seles had 9 wins over Martina and 7 losses....Don't forget the generation gap between them ! Martina was twice Monica's age...
La Seles 1:44:01 Con quei urli era veramente fastidiosa