Great test and conclusion. I think you summed it up best when you said, "I don't really know." I love my IFS Trailrunner. it's a performer. As much as I love the IFS, it does require you to choose different lines compared to straight axle, and it takes a bit of time to adjust. That being said when it comes to competitive situation, I would choose my SOA Enduro Sendero to compete with vs. my IFS Trailrunner. My conclusion is that if I have to keep just one rig, then I would keep my straight axle rig. For a second truck, I would not hesitate to have an IFS truck which provides a different driving experience. But not the other way around.
I have been thinking about getting one and trying it. Thanks for your testing. I would still love to try it for my faster woods trails. And I love it when my grandkids see it and say “you changed it Bapa” they don’t miss anything and they are very in control drivers for their young ages. Thanks again.
Great! I see your point on it being fun to try for giggles...but man, hard to pay $100 to actually make the truck worse... Glad you are getting the GrandKids involved!
@@RoadsideRC you will love it someday. No more work just tinker and play with all 10 of them! We do crawling and bashing. We went to a rc park and some people there were amazed at the 4 yr olds abilities! I thank you for keeping your channel kid friendly. Hard to find now days. Stay safe. channel
I put ifs on my Gatekeeper, lost a lot of performance so I too went back to the solid front axle, put the ifs in a trail rig, great video, liked and subbed.
Great news about the solid axle because I prefer how it looks too. Much more to go wrong with IFS. Great test you did for all of us. Well done and thanks. Note to Associated Element. I will buy this on what I have seen from Roadside RC.
Fantastic comparison, first i have seen anyone really get into this that deep and really test it. I like the IFS for the scale looks and seeing how it does seem to perform well I think I am no long on the fence, I am going to have to try and IFS on one of my Elements for sure now. Thanks for sharing!!!
Thx so much I know this is an old video but was very informative for me. I just bought my first crawler an element knightrunner which comes with ifs out of the box. Been tossing the idea around of switching to solid axle. This video was extremely informative and helpful thx so n I'm now subscribed to your channel looking forward to checking out more of your videos.
i have the elements Knightrunner still in the box and has been there since march, i have the Axial Capra and a trx4 Defender and Bronco so its not for the crawling experience i bought the Knightrunner but for the scale look of it and also because its a knights custom job, saying that i was going to get myself the Ecto or the Sendero now after seeing that i really want an Ecto , love this video on the true no BS comparison and yeah going to watch me some more on this truck🙂thanks again for a great presented video
man I was searching up for solid axle vs Independent suspension comparison for live full scale trucks, but this comparison using RC turks was by far more better to understand
Awesome! I am glad this was helpful. I imagine there is a lot of nuance when it comes to the exact suspension designs of the vehicles you are talking about. But I do wonder if this broadly applies.
Awesome vid man thank you! Finally the perfect comparison from ifs to solid axle, i guess it depends on how you plan on using the truck, like a scale trail rig but not so much on a dedicated crawler. I’ve seen a few ifs swapped gatekeepers but they’re more of a rock racer/bouncer type.. keep up the great vids! U have a new subscriber here
We have to keep in mind that IFS is meant more for planted cornering and high speed shock absorption to an individual wheel without affecting the balance of the vehicle. That’s why it works so well on race cars and trophy trucks. IFS isn’t meant for pure rock crawling. It can be done, but the general point of IFS on off-road oriented vehicles is to tame on-road manners. I have a 5th gen 4Runner IRL - I know it will never be the best crawler compared to say a Jeep Wrangler crawler, but it does fine off road and corners great on road even with mud tires. That’s the trade off.
@@RoadsideRC Great video and testing on the differences! I have 3 crawlers (all solid axles), but this makes me want to get a 4th one to have something similar to my own daily driver just so I know it’s limitations a bit better.
This is a grate video for illustrating the fact that IFS its best suited for comfort and control abilitie of the vehical at high speed such as desert racing or short course. Where as solid axle is best suited for hauling and towing and will have greater suspension flex over all, and this will pretty accurately transfer to full scale applications. Again awesome video 🤙
About the wheel weight transfer: when the right front tire is lifted, the weight is transferred to the left rear, not to the tire directly across from it. The (potential) advantage in that is when the front gets light, that weight is transferred to the rear. As IFS cannot physically flex as far as a live axle, the increased static clearance is going to be offset by loss of dynamic clearance. As with anything, you have to give to get. In the right situations, the IFS will be better at some things. For pure rock crawling? Not so much.
It actually seemed to be a lose-lose. Yes, I gained a little bit (2mm) of clearance in the center, but lost it near the wheel based on the geometry. Thanks for your thoughts!
@@RoadsideRC Yeah, on flat ground, turning at speed, or trying to successfully land a jump is where independent suspension really shines. For crawling, or even just climbing stuff like Formula Off Road, the live axle is the way to go.
I have the ifs conversion on my SCX10 ii. It is a give and take situation with ifs, for me I like the sllight change in how I have to approach obstacles. I do have the Kights customs ifs mod I ordered from shapeways coming in the mail.
artful dodger's stainless skids and a arm protectors make this more capable! I've used it on the knightrunner and trailrunner, and it was noticable! if you have a trail truck and you wish to keep the IFS this is a fantastic mod. I have other crawlers with the strait front axles, but they are not really trail trucks, so they do crawl better, but, if we're just trailing, there is no notable difference. you don't have to be right or wrong, and as a scaler I really like the element IFS, but, that's what's so great about the hobby! you do you as long as you enjoy it!
@@RoadsideRC when they rub the rocks they have less friction and it smooths everything out so that it doesn't hang up as bad. the front also changes the angle a little
Awesome! I been looking at a custom build that will require ifs .... without giving too much away, as far as you can see can you run this ifs as a 2wd with minimal or simple modifications?
portal axles give best clearance for rocks and I see major performance difference between tracks. So it all depends on and where you drive at what works best.
Great video love the comparison. I have been wanting to try the IFS on my gatekeeper seems like it would better on a trail style truck vs a rock crawler.
Honestly, the only reason I would use this is if I was going after something even MORE scale. The Element Knightrunner they just came out with is a good example. The IFS helps it look more 1:1 - so that is a plus...but it is literally worse for everything else.
They released an IFS V2 Camburg edition. Supposedly, it has higher clearance in the center and at the arms. Not sure if it has more flex, but maybe someone will do a comparison video. Solid axle vs IFS V1 vs IFS V2 Camburg
@@RoadsideRC You might be able to jerry rig the two kits together to make De-Dion but it'll require custom fab work. De-Dion is a dead solid axle with a chassis-mounted diff and CVs (similar to Independant) that power the hubs. You attach the dead solid axle in any of the same ways that you'd attach a live solid axle. Same with the steering system. Overall it's really more applicable to smooth or smooth-ish surface vehicles, but the benefits are ligher unsprung weight for the responsiveness similar to independent, no chassis torque twist like solid has, less wheel hop and jacking than solid, but you keep the geometry and most of the setup/design simplicity of solid axle. You also get SLIGHTLY better clearance since the pumpkin isn't in the middle. More if you make it an inverted drop axle (so kinda like a portal axle) but then the CV ends will be lower than the axle beam. If I were you (and interested/curious enough) I'd take the IFS hubs and shorten the pickup points for the ball joints to be similar to the kingpin distance on a solid axle, then JB weld those to a beam and setup that jogs around the front diff housing and has space around the hubs for the CVs to slot in, then connect the De-Dion to the chassis with either your existing 4-link, or a Satchell-Link style triangulated 4-link. Satchell Link is parallel upper arms (in both top and side view) that are wide on the axle, and lower arms triangulated at the chassis and wide on the axle. The lowers should also be angled slightly up toward the chassis for proper anti-squat/anti-dive. Tune as needed.
Great video. My opinion is the ifs suspension is not all that for rock crawling, more for trail running. But that's just me. If u want more rock crawler action stick to straight axle.
Being IFS I think it would benefit most from a different shock setup than with the solid axle. Looks like it needs softer springs or a lighter weight oil.
I do think one test that would have been better probably would have been on dirt. I know with my Jeep personally my real jeep that has four wheel independent suspension it has extremely good traction on dirt. I do think that's all that axle like a Wrangler probably has a better traction on rocks. You kind of face the same thing that I faced with mine is that the independent suspension seems to be stiffer and I think there's something called motion ratio and I think it gets into that... Basically the lever that compresses the spring is shorter on the independent suspension usually then it would be on a solid axle. So it's a lot harder to get full compression on Independent suspension. In fact with my Jeep I have to have a wheel off the ground to get full compression for the wheel or Wheels on the ground.
Yeah I knew that wasn't going to go well not personal experience but I watch a lot of RUclipsrs that system doesn't seem to be a hit it's a cool concept and there are some 1 to 1 Vehicles out there with IFS there is even a famous Rock Bouncer rig that has ifs in the front of it I believe it's outlaw but great video Troy thanks for sharing
I would love to own some ifs for my trail truck but unfortunately I can't find a nice set of them for the rite price but I liked how it looked on your rig
Excellent and very informative video! I just subscribed! I'd love to try that IFS system if you still have it please! I have a custom Enduro Sendero 2021 Bronco that I'd love to make more scale please! 🙂👍
Awesome video! I had a feeling it wouldn’t perform as well on the ecto. I’ve been tossing around the idea of putting IFS kit on my very modified sendero. I put a proline cage on and mounted the bed sides to the cage, as well as vs410 bumper on the front. Always interesting in trying new stuff.
@@RoadsideRC so I recently tried the IFS on the new knightrunner basically box stock other than esc at a local comp and my only issue with the ifs was the giant skid plates get stuck on everything, otherwise no complaints. Still think solid axle is better tho.
I’d love to test it on a actual trail. Somewhere similar to what a 1:1 daily driver weekend warrior person would do on his rig. Get the scale look and scale trailing with its real world limitations. Fantastic video by the way
I think u made a believer out of me after your video I got to thinking about the niche the ifs actually has in crawling. Now I'm thinking of getting one just to see if I can make it perform.
@@WreckitRalphie It can perform really well as a crawler. Many times it has surprised me on lines that my straight axle rigs had tough time with. But I feel that straight axle is much more predictable in the way it drives than IFS, and you need that consistency. Here's a video of my IFS Trailrunner on the rocks. Go check it ou. ruclips.net/video/L_8Blfb1jwI/видео.html
Ive been praying for element to come out with portals stronger than trx4 or as strong and better turning than 10.3.........they are leaving us hanging.....they could really make a great portal they have the ability i hope they do fingers crossed!
Id think portals would be the way to go. I know with my crawler/trail trucks once i got my first portal rig there was no going back it was almost a freedom of sorts lol. Thanks for sharing troy
They would but only if he wants it to be a good trail truck if he rlly wants to push this truck run it this way because belly dragged and comp truck don’t us portals and helps cg
My go-to trucks are certainly my TRX4 Sport, Gen8, and Axial SCX10iii - all portal trucks. The straight axle design certainly helps keep the weight low, but I am a big fan of the portals also!
@@RoadsideRC yeah me to I have a heavy midfield low cg for my trx4 defender but just wish Portals are so nice but idk what his plans are but I’m saying if he’s going to make that truck as best as he can keep the stock ones and make it a belly drawer
@@dylanjohnson8675 true. Myself im mot much of a comp guy. I watch them and seems to be more of a who ever has the best winch wins i feel that if they need to use a winch it should only be hooked to the terrain not a fella holding a walking stick. But that is only my opinion i do it purely for the fun of it i been in the rcc hobby 30+ years on and off and back in my nitro days if you would of told me i could just as much fun if not more going as slow as possible id of laughed about it. The rc hobby has came so far in the last decade its unreal. I totally agree with kevin tolbot (what ever car or truck puts a smile on your face is the one for you)
@@jebrc I 100% agree with you but I love comp build I’m starting a scx10ii one soon not to do comps just to see how good I can make a crawler clim I don’t like comps there cool but not my type of thing I love yo see what crazy things I can get over that you would think is impossible
I think that the way things were tested, caused a few results to be a bit off. For example: 1. The ifs kid weighs more than the solid axle, so measuring it the way you did, did not compensate for that added weight, therefore it was not an accurate test of how much weight difference there is between the two types of suspension. In addition, you did not measure that weight difference with the suspension at the same flex points. It was measured where each type meets its maximum flex, and the difference is going to affect the white transfer to the other tire. 2. Measuring how much tire tread remained on the ground was off because naturally the higher the other tires lifted, it's going to put the tire on it's corner or sidewall, which automatically means the solid-axle is going to have less tread contact because it flexes so much more. Again if they were both measured with the flex points at the same height, it would have gotten a more accurate result. 3. Simply because of the laws of leverage, I believe the theory of the solid-axle putting more weight on the lower tire when flexing, only really comes into effect while the other tire is lifting. (With a solid bar/lever, as your prying up on one end, it's applying downward force on the other end because its solid) You could see that reflected on the scale. If you go back and watch, as you were lifting, the scale weight actually increased significantly until you stopped lifting. And that's simply because while you were lifting you were applying extra downforce above and beyond the weight alone. When you stopped lifting, it all evened out because that extra downforce being applied had ceased. So with the ifs suspension, as you're lifting on one tire, there's no solid axle that forces the "equal opposite reaction" on the other tire, because it is absorbed in the fact that it does flex it's not solid and also absorbed by suspension. Whereas with the solid-axle, there's nothing there to absorb that added downforce while lifting. If you could somehow apply lift forced to both types of suspension at the same rate, and measure maximum weight registered on the scale throughout the whole process of lifting and then resting, THEN you would have an accurate measurement of how much difference there is based on just the suspension styles. So basically, an accurate test would require taking steps to make sure everything is equal (weight, lift height, etc.) so that the test reflects no other influence beyond just the different suspension styles. But it was still very informative and helpful test because even though the results from those specific things were not accurate/reliable, it still did expose some of the strengths and flaws of both types of suspension. And I agree with what I think you were saying that, with THAT SPECIFIC ifs kit, there are some issues, that might not exist or effect as much with a different design of the same type of suspension. Compared to 1/1 size all of those suspension components extremely oversized which made them very bulky, and caused a lot of clearance issues as well as limiting its flex potential. If they had used different materials to build each of those components, that would have allowed them to make those parts a lit thinner, less bulky and use smaller screws, knuckles, hubs etc, then it wouldn't have sacrificed as much clearance, and it would actually had more flex. It's kind of like a bodybuilder who's muscles are so huge they're "muscle bound" and have to get someone to scratch their back because their muscles are in the way and prohibit the skeletons full range of movement. 😝
Before I even watched the video I knew what the results would be. The IFS is terrible for rock crawling. Great for regular flat, maybe uneven surfaces driving. Watching some of the up close shots in the video. You can see the IFS isn’t even flexing at all. It stayed solid. The rear suspension did the work. In the close up shots of the straight axle you see the straight axle flexing. The Ecto is a fantastic and inexpensive truck that is outstanding. Why ruin it with IFS. Upgrade to a better tire and add some weight to the front wheels and the truck goes from an animal to a beast.
I personally think you haven't spent enough time with the IFS . There's that pesky learning curve to consider. Like your shock choice. The size tires which axle you're using. I mean good try but in real scale crawler world it's probably better than leafsprings? That's what the IFS is for . Nothing is going to beat 4 link because it's not comparable. If you're into scale modeling then leafsprings or IFS are your choices. Along with what line you chose and the simple facts of Nutens law lol. Still interesting video and still helpful. Thanks for listening lol. Peace ✌️
Interesting! Really doubt more time with it would make a difference - especially if the consideration is vs leaf spring. You lost me on that bit a little. But - I am VERY interested in trying their new IFS2 system! It looks like it solves a lot of the issues with this one, so might be really good.
The AE IFS design you installed is quite primitive. Kinda like AE’s design #2 as it rolled out of it’s cave! Not being anything close to an engineer here. But longer A arms closer together somewhat like a Trophy Truck would probably have alot more clearance. I’m sure there would still be caveat’s tho.
heh... just watched 16 minutes before realizing this wasn't the IFS 2.... I really like the IFS2 over my ifs 1's I have 3 elements now, Solid Rtr tailwalker, IFS2 Gatekeeper, and IFS1 builders kit 1.. I like the "prerunner" / Ultra4 side of things though..
@@RoadsideRC I'm looking at mine right now, the rod end in the lower arm is actually bent upwards... maybes flip it and see what happens with the camber, driveshaft angles, travel and droop, and ground clearance. Might be worth a shot if it's something that simple!
@@S9RUT I find that using a bit taller tires on IFS makes a huge difference. It's a huge difference going from 4.75" tires to 4.92" tires (Jconcepts Ruptures). It really benefits from that slight increase in height.
Been waiting on this one. Great comparison. Your right ,seems to hang up more easily. If you need a second opinion we have an ecto and a great crawler course lol 😆
The independent suspension is designed for riding comfort in real world. Since you're not driving the RC in actual there's no need for that. In reality the solid axle is more reliable in crawling than independent sus. While independent sus is good in a place like baja or highways.
Keep the IFS and turn somthing into a buggie. Brushless . Insane. Basher. Frankenstein somthing . Injoy your 100 dolery doose. Break it . It will cost more to send it . But if you want I'll make somthing and send you videos of the results
@@RoadsideRC I'm unboxing a TRX four but where I live in the mountains along the river back the thing is just amazing. Pile of loosebig weird rocks yeah naa
Great test and conclusion. I think you summed it up best when you said, "I don't really know." I love my IFS Trailrunner. it's a performer. As much as I love the IFS, it does require you to choose different lines compared to straight axle, and it takes a bit of time to adjust. That being said when it comes to competitive situation, I would choose my SOA Enduro Sendero to compete with vs. my IFS Trailrunner. My conclusion is that if I have to keep just one rig, then I would keep my straight axle rig. For a second truck, I would not hesitate to have an IFS truck which provides a different driving experience. But not the other way around.
Thanks for the summary - I agree!
Thanks for sharing , Awesome man !
Thank you!
I have been thinking about getting one and trying it. Thanks for your testing. I would still love to try it for my faster woods trails. And I love it when my grandkids see it and say “you changed it Bapa” they don’t miss anything and they are very in control drivers for their young ages. Thanks again.
Great! I see your point on it being fun to try for giggles...but man, hard to pay $100 to actually make the truck worse...
Glad you are getting the GrandKids involved!
@@RoadsideRC you will love it someday. No more work just tinker and play with all 10 of them! We do crawling and bashing. We went to a rc park and some people there were amazed at the 4 yr olds abilities! I thank you for keeping your channel kid friendly. Hard to find now days. Stay safe.
channel
I put ifs on my Gatekeeper, lost a lot of performance so I too went back to the solid front axle, put the ifs in a trail rig, great video, liked and subbed.
Thanks for confirming what I saw!
Great video! Thank you for taking the time and quality comparison. You do a great job! 👍
Thanks for watching! I'm glad you liked it!
Great news about the solid axle because I prefer how it looks too. Much more to go wrong with IFS. Great test you did for all of us. Well done and thanks. Note to Associated Element. I will buy this on what I have seen from Roadside RC.
Thank you!
Fantastic comparison, first i have seen anyone really get into this that deep and really test it. I like the IFS for the scale looks and seeing how it does seem to perform well I think I am no long on the fence, I am going to have to try and IFS on one of my Elements for sure now. Thanks for sharing!!!
Good luck with it! It certainly looks cool for sure!
Thx so much I know this is an old video but was very informative for me. I just bought my first crawler an element knightrunner which comes with ifs out of the box. Been tossing the idea around of switching to solid axle. This video was extremely informative and helpful thx so n I'm now subscribed to your channel looking forward to checking out more of your videos.
Thanks for the kind words Luke!
Glad to be a help!
Glad to see u tried it out. Great video!
Thank you!
i have the elements Knightrunner still in the box and has been there since march, i have the Axial Capra and a trx4 Defender and Bronco so its not for the crawling experience i bought the Knightrunner but for the scale look of it and also because its a knights custom job, saying that i was going to get myself the Ecto or the Sendero now after seeing that i really want an Ecto , love this video on the true no BS comparison and yeah going to watch me some more on this truck🙂thanks again for a great presented video
Thank you for the kind words!
I agree - the Knightrunner does look great!
Hope you get an ECTO and really enjoy it.
man I was searching up for solid axle vs Independent suspension comparison for live full scale trucks, but this comparison using RC turks was by far more better to understand
Awesome! I am glad this was helpful.
I imagine there is a lot of nuance when it comes to the exact suspension designs of the vehicles you are talking about. But I do wonder if this broadly applies.
This is perfect for my quest for a scale trophy truck that I like.
Check out the new IFS2 that Element just released - even better performance than what is in this video.
Fabulous experiment!
Thanks!
Awesome vid man thank you! Finally the perfect comparison from ifs to solid axle, i guess it depends on how you plan on using the truck, like a scale trail rig but not so much on a dedicated crawler. I’ve seen a few ifs swapped gatekeepers but they’re more of a rock racer/bouncer type.. keep up the great vids! U have a new subscriber here
Thank you!
Yes, I could certainly see the IFS for a bouncer or rock racer...but that is about it!
100% ! Thanks ! I’m picking up the ecto soon and I will NOT attempt the ifs… Thanks again!
Glad it was helpful!
Nice and thorough test. 👍
Thanks! 👍
Thank you Really Appreciate it
Hope it was helpful!!!
Nice vid bro..very good infomation regarding solid axle and ifs..
Glad it was helpful!
Great video, very technical! 👍
Thank you!
We have to keep in mind that IFS is meant more for planted cornering and high speed shock absorption to an individual wheel without affecting the balance of the vehicle. That’s why it works so well on race cars and trophy trucks.
IFS isn’t meant for pure rock crawling. It can be done, but the general point of IFS on off-road oriented vehicles is to tame on-road manners. I have a 5th gen 4Runner IRL - I know it will never be the best crawler compared to say a Jeep Wrangler crawler, but it does fine off road and corners great on road even with mud tires. That’s the trade off.
You are correct!
I am not super worried about on-road ride comfort with my rc crawlers! :)
@@RoadsideRC Great video and testing on the differences! I have 3 crawlers (all solid axles), but this makes me want to get a 4th one to have something similar to my own daily driver just so I know it’s limitations a bit better.
Great video, nice course setup, good comparison, thanks for the video (:
Thanks! Glad this was helpful!
Great vid. Answered many questions. Thx
Glad it was helpful!
This is a grate video for illustrating the fact that IFS its best suited for comfort and control abilitie of the vehical at high speed such as desert racing or short course. Where as solid axle is best suited for hauling and towing and will have greater suspension flex over all, and this will pretty accurately transfer to full scale applications. Again awesome video 🤙
Thank you!
Awesome!! What battery will work well on this??
I run this battery:
amzn.to/3YW2ULp
I also swapped the connector onnthe truck to XT60
@@RoadsideRC oh ok..thanks. I just bought 2 on Amazon 3s lipo 2200mah 50c I hope it's good.
About the wheel weight transfer: when the right front tire is lifted, the weight is transferred to the left rear, not to the tire directly across from it. The (potential) advantage in that is when the front gets light, that weight is transferred to the rear. As IFS cannot physically flex as far as a live axle, the increased static clearance is going to be offset by loss of dynamic clearance. As with anything, you have to give to get. In the right situations, the IFS will be better at some things. For pure rock crawling? Not so much.
It actually seemed to be a lose-lose. Yes, I gained a little bit (2mm) of clearance in the center, but lost it near the wheel based on the geometry.
Thanks for your thoughts!
@@RoadsideRC Yeah, on flat ground, turning at speed, or trying to successfully land a jump is where independent suspension really shines. For crawling, or even just climbing stuff like Formula Off Road, the live axle is the way to go.
I have the ifs conversion on my SCX10 ii. It is a give and take situation with ifs, for me I like the sllight change in how I have to approach obstacles. I do have the Kights customs ifs mod I ordered from shapeways coming in the mail.
Glad you like it!
artful dodger's stainless skids and a arm protectors make this more capable! I've used it on the knightrunner and trailrunner, and it was noticable! if you have a trail truck and you wish to keep the IFS this is a fantastic mod. I have other crawlers with the strait front axles, but they are not really trail trucks, so they do crawl better, but, if we're just trailing, there is no notable difference. you don't have to be right or wrong, and as a scaler I really like the element IFS, but, that's what's so great about the hobby! you do you as long as you enjoy it!
Interesting!
I've never heard someone say skids and a-arm protectors to help anything. I would like to hear your thoughts on how it helps!
@@RoadsideRC when they rub the rocks they have less friction and it smooths everything out so that it doesn't hang up as bad. the front also changes the angle a little
Awesome! I been looking at a custom build that will require ifs .... without giving too much away, as far as you can see can you run this ifs as a 2wd with minimal or simple modifications?
Yes, you could easily run it without any of the differential or driveshafts in it.
great comparison and video
Thanks!
A most interesting experiment Troy
*full watch👍Au👍left a big like*
Thank you 👍
Great work, quite useful. Only metric you forgot to test is the IFS's obvious advantage - open trail handling over the solid axle.
Since I use this truck as a crawler/trail vehicle - I wasn't worried about any higher speed stability.
Thanks for the feedback!
Thanks 🙏🏼 video is awesome 👏
Thanks! I hope it was helpful for you!
portal axles give best clearance for rocks and I see major performance difference between tracks. So it all depends on and where you drive at what works best.
I agree that portals sure help!
What's up my guy, do you still have use for the ifs system? If not I'd like to give it's shot on a rig
I actually do have it!
Couldn't ever get ahold of the other folks who wanted it.
Shoot me a message on Instagram or Facebook.
@@RoadsideRC will do!
Keep up the great vids
Thanks, will do!
Seems like IFS would make it better at higher speed rock racing. Have you ran it on 3s or 4s ?
I run my crawlers on 3S, but not for speed. I have bashers for that.
great video i was about to order ifs i think ill stay with soa that i have thanks
Glad to be of help!
I can't wait to see what happens
Thanks!
Great video love the comparison. I have been wanting to try the IFS on my gatekeeper seems like it would better on a trail style truck vs a rock crawler.
Honestly, the only reason I would use this is if I was going after something even MORE scale. The Element Knightrunner they just came out with is a good example. The IFS helps it look more 1:1 - so that is a plus...but it is literally worse for everything else.
@@RoadsideRCI agree with that definitely for the more scale look versus capable your video comparison definitely shows that.
great video.
Thanks! It seems I have made half of the people happy, and half of them mad with this! :)
They released an IFS V2 Camburg edition. Supposedly, it has higher clearance in the center and at the arms. Not sure if it has more flex, but maybe someone will do a comparison video. Solid axle vs IFS V1 vs IFS V2 Camburg
Yes! I saw that myself and am thinking about doing that exact video.
Thank you!
Thanks for sharing 👍👍
Thanks for visiting!
I think it'd be interesting to see Twin Traction-beam and De-Dion axle testing as well, but kits for those don't exist yet, to my knowledge.
If you make it, we will test it! :)
@@RoadsideRC You might be able to jerry rig the two kits together to make De-Dion but it'll require custom fab work. De-Dion is a dead solid axle with a chassis-mounted diff and CVs (similar to Independant) that power the hubs. You attach the dead solid axle in any of the same ways that you'd attach a live solid axle. Same with the steering system.
Overall it's really more applicable to smooth or smooth-ish surface vehicles, but the benefits are ligher unsprung weight for the responsiveness similar to independent, no chassis torque twist like solid has, less wheel hop and jacking than solid, but you keep the geometry and most of the setup/design simplicity of solid axle. You also get SLIGHTLY better clearance since the pumpkin isn't in the middle. More if you make it an inverted drop axle (so kinda like a portal axle) but then the CV ends will be lower than the axle beam.
If I were you (and interested/curious enough) I'd take the IFS hubs and shorten the pickup points for the ball joints to be similar to the kingpin distance on a solid axle, then JB weld those to a beam and setup that jogs around the front diff housing and has space around the hubs for the CVs to slot in, then connect the De-Dion to the chassis with either your existing 4-link, or a Satchell-Link style triangulated 4-link. Satchell Link is parallel upper arms (in both top and side view) that are wide on the axle, and lower arms triangulated at the chassis and wide on the axle. The lowers should also be angled slightly up toward the chassis for proper anti-squat/anti-dive. Tune as needed.
It's funny that this looks just like the big truck that they're building on Matt's off-road recovery
I'll have to check that out!
Great video. My opinion is the ifs suspension is not all that for rock crawling, more for trail running. But that's just me. If u want more rock crawler action stick to straight axle.
I agree!
I have a Enduro straight and a Enduro IFS each work well in the environment they are in. Pick and choose wisely and pick your line in the run wisely
Thanks for the feedback!
Being IFS I think it would benefit most from a different shock setup than with the solid axle. Looks like it needs softer springs or a lighter weight oil.
I do agree that could help.
I do think one test that would have been better probably would have been on dirt. I know with my Jeep personally my real jeep that has four wheel independent suspension it has extremely good traction on dirt. I do think that's all that axle like a Wrangler probably has a better traction on rocks.
You kind of face the same thing that I faced with mine is that the independent suspension seems to be stiffer and I think there's something called motion ratio and I think it gets into that... Basically the lever that compresses the spring is shorter on the independent suspension usually then it would be on a solid axle. So it's a lot harder to get full compression on Independent suspension. In fact with my Jeep I have to have a wheel off the ground to get full compression for the wheel or Wheels on the ground.
Yeah I knew that wasn't going to go well not personal experience but I watch a lot of RUclipsrs that system doesn't seem to be a hit it's a cool concept and there are some 1 to 1 Vehicles out there with IFS there is even a famous Rock Bouncer rig that has ifs in the front of it I believe it's outlaw but great video Troy thanks for sharing
Thanks for the support! I REALLY wanted this to work...
@@RoadsideRC like I said I watch a few other RUclipsrs Harley designs scale Builders Guild Joe EXO cage and the ifs it just doesn't do the thing
Nice video :)
Glad you enjoyed it
I would love to own some ifs for my trail truck but unfortunately I can't find a nice set of them for the rite price but I liked how it looked on your rig
I don't think I could recommend the IFS, even for a trail truck.
What tires ya running?
Proline Trencher crawler in Predator
@@RoadsideRC Is that the tire you like most?
Hey man - heads up with all that wood straight in the dirt.
Look up: termites.
Yep! We do watch for it.
Thanks!
You should try to install a kit on the back too lol and see how it performs. I'd love to see that
I thought about it! Should have tried it - instead I gave the kit away to a viewer.
Excellent and very informative video! I just subscribed! I'd love to try that IFS system if you still have it please! I have a custom Enduro Sendero 2021 Bronco that I'd love to make more scale please! 🙂👍
Thanks for the sub!
I have two people in front of you for the IFS. If they fall through - I will let you know!
@@RoadsideRC Cool, thank you sir! I really appreciate that! Also, it's my pleasure subbing. 🙂👍
Awesome video! I had a feeling it wouldn’t perform as well on the ecto.
I’ve been tossing around the idea of putting IFS kit on my very modified sendero.
I put a proline cage on and mounted the bed sides to the cage, as well as vs410 bumper on the front.
Always interesting in trying new stuff.
Sounds like a fun build! Obviously, I can't recommend the IFS for performance reasons! :)
@@RoadsideRC so I recently tried the IFS on the new knightrunner basically box stock other than esc at a local comp and my only issue with the ifs was the giant skid plates get stuck on everything, otherwise no complaints. Still think solid axle is better tho.
Agree! That big front skid played hits before the tires do!
Element release ifs2... can u review it and compare?
I would love to!
@@RoadsideRC that will be nice thanks
Great video. Put me in the pot for the IfS giveaway!
Done!
I feel like the ifs needs portal axles to fix the hang ups then it would be setup like a humvee front end.
That would be fun!
Old video new comment I apologize but what rims/tires are those
The rims are discontinued ones from Voodoo. The tires are these: bit.ly/3PCsdgl
Those are really SWEET really caught my attention, thank you
I’d love to test it on a actual trail. Somewhere similar to what a 1:1 daily driver weekend warrior person would do on his rig. Get the scale look and scale trailing with its real world limitations. Fantastic video by the way
Thank you!
On a trail, I expect the differences to be the same.
I think u made a believer out of me after your video I got to thinking about the niche the ifs actually has in crawling. Now I'm thinking of getting one just to see if I can make it perform.
@@WreckitRalphie It can perform really well as a crawler. Many times it has surprised me on lines that my straight axle rigs had tough time with. But I feel that straight axle is much more predictable in the way it drives than IFS, and you need that consistency. Here's a video of my IFS Trailrunner on the rocks. Go check it ou. ruclips.net/video/L_8Blfb1jwI/видео.html
I would like to buy the IFS set up
Here is a link to it:
amzn.to/2WvZ6Ca
@@RoadsideRC thanks tho its a bummer its not avelible thats why i offer to bu yours
I’d run a thinner weight shock fluid to let the ifs work and articulate
I agree that it could use more tweaking for sure. However - the total articulation wasn't what was holding it back.
Ive been praying for element to come out with portals stronger than trx4 or as strong and better turning than 10.3.........they are leaving us hanging.....they could really make a great portal they have the ability i hope they do fingers crossed!
Agree - I really hoped the Ecto would be a portal truck.
Id think portals would be the way to go. I know with my crawler/trail trucks once i got my first portal rig there was no going back it was almost a freedom of sorts lol. Thanks for sharing troy
They would but only if he wants it to be a good trail truck if he rlly wants to push this truck run it this way because belly dragged and comp truck don’t us portals and helps cg
My go-to trucks are certainly my TRX4 Sport, Gen8, and Axial SCX10iii - all portal trucks.
The straight axle design certainly helps keep the weight low, but I am a big fan of the portals also!
@@RoadsideRC yeah me to I have a heavy midfield low cg for my trx4 defender but just wish Portals are so nice but idk what his plans are but I’m saying if he’s going to make that truck as best as he can keep the stock ones and make it a belly drawer
@@dylanjohnson8675 true. Myself im mot much of a comp guy. I watch them and seems to be more of a who ever has the best winch wins i feel that if they need to use a winch it should only be hooked to the terrain not a fella holding a walking stick. But that is only my opinion i do it purely for the fun of it i been in the rcc hobby 30+ years on and off and back in my nitro days if you would of told me i could just as much fun if not more going as slow as possible id of laughed about it. The rc hobby has came so far in the last decade its unreal. I totally agree with kevin tolbot (what ever car or truck puts a smile on your face is the one for you)
@@jebrc I 100% agree with you but I love comp build I’m starting a scx10ii one soon not to do comps just to see how good I can make a crawler clim I don’t like comps there cool but not my type of thing I love yo see what crazy things I can get over that you would think is impossible
I have IFS on my SCX10 II Ford Ranger. It's definitely a different experience.
Different for sure!
I hope you enjoy it.
I think that the way things were tested, caused a few results to be a bit off.
For example:
1. The ifs kid weighs more than the solid axle, so measuring it the way you did, did not compensate for that added weight, therefore it was not an accurate test of how much weight difference there is between the two types of suspension.
In addition, you did not measure that weight difference with the suspension at the same flex points. It was measured where each type meets its maximum flex, and the difference is going to affect the white transfer to the other tire.
2. Measuring how much tire tread remained on the ground was off because naturally the higher the other tires lifted, it's going to put the tire on it's corner or sidewall, which automatically means the solid-axle is going to have less tread contact because it flexes so much more. Again if they were both measured with the flex points at the same height, it would have gotten a more accurate result.
3. Simply because of the laws of leverage, I believe the theory of the solid-axle putting more weight on the lower tire when flexing, only really comes into effect while the other tire is lifting. (With a solid bar/lever, as your prying up on one end, it's applying downward force on the other end because its solid)
You could see that reflected on the scale. If you go back and watch, as you were lifting, the scale weight actually increased significantly until you stopped lifting. And that's simply because while you were lifting you were applying extra downforce above and beyond the weight alone. When you stopped lifting, it all evened out because that extra downforce being applied had ceased.
So with the ifs suspension, as you're lifting on one tire, there's no solid axle that forces the "equal opposite reaction" on the other tire, because it is absorbed in the fact that it does flex it's not solid and also absorbed by suspension. Whereas with the solid-axle, there's nothing there to absorb that added downforce while lifting.
If you could somehow apply lift forced to both types of suspension at the same rate, and measure maximum weight registered on the scale throughout the whole process of lifting and then resting, THEN you would have an accurate measurement of how much difference there is based on just the suspension styles.
So basically, an accurate test would require taking steps to make sure everything is equal (weight, lift height, etc.) so that the test reflects no other influence beyond just the different suspension styles.
But it was still very informative and helpful test because even though the results from those specific things were not accurate/reliable, it still did expose some of the strengths and flaws of both types of suspension.
And I agree with what I think you were saying that, with THAT SPECIFIC ifs kit, there are some issues, that might not exist or effect as much with a different design of the same type of suspension.
Compared to 1/1 size all of those suspension components extremely oversized which made them very bulky, and caused a lot of clearance issues as well as limiting its flex potential.
If they had used different materials to build each of those components, that would have allowed them to make those parts a lit thinner, less bulky and use smaller screws, knuckles, hubs etc, then it wouldn't have sacrificed as much clearance, and it would actually had more flex.
It's kind of like a bodybuilder who's muscles are so huge they're "muscle bound" and have to get someone to scratch their back because their muscles are in the way and prohibit the skeletons full range of movement. 😝
I appreciate your thoughtful consideration! I believe you highlighted a few gaps for sure.
Thank you for your ideas!
Than you for using mm :)
It really does make more sense than SAE! :)
@@RoadsideRC :)
Before I even watched the video I knew what the results would be. The IFS is terrible for rock crawling. Great for regular flat, maybe uneven surfaces driving. Watching some of the up close shots in the video. You can see the IFS isn’t even flexing at all. It stayed solid. The rear suspension did the work. In the close up shots of the straight axle you see the straight axle flexing. The Ecto is a fantastic and inexpensive truck that is outstanding. Why ruin it with IFS. Upgrade to a better tire and add some weight to the front wheels and the truck goes from an animal to a beast.
There is a lot of discussion on the crawler groups about the IFS and whether it is good or not - so I tested it.
I wish you had done this a year ago!!!
Ah! Already did the swap?
@@RoadsideRC yuppers, and I'm not happy with it either.
I personally think you haven't spent enough time with the IFS . There's that pesky learning curve to consider. Like your shock choice. The size tires which axle you're using. I mean good try but in real scale crawler world it's probably better than leafsprings? That's what the IFS is for . Nothing is going to beat 4 link because it's not comparable. If you're into scale modeling then leafsprings or IFS are your choices. Along with what line you chose and the simple facts of Nutens law lol. Still interesting video and still helpful. Thanks for listening lol. Peace ✌️
Interesting!
Really doubt more time with it would make a difference - especially if the consideration is vs leaf spring. You lost me on that bit a little.
But - I am VERY interested in trying their new IFS2 system! It looks like it solves a lot of the issues with this one, so might be really good.
The AE IFS design you installed is quite primitive.
Kinda like AE’s design #2 as it rolled out of it’s cave!
Not being anything close to an engineer here.
But longer A arms closer together somewhat like a Trophy Truck would probably have alot more clearance.
I’m sure there would still be caveat’s tho.
Agree - the results could be better with an alternate design.
heh... just watched 16 minutes before realizing this wasn't the IFS 2....
I really like the IFS2 over my ifs 1's
I have 3 elements now, Solid Rtr tailwalker, IFS2 Gatekeeper, and IFS1 builders kit 1..
I like the "prerunner" / Ultra4 side of things though..
I want to repeat this with the IFS2! Haven't had the opportunity yet.
It's because the solid axle has a constant ground clearance, but the IFS has a constantly varying ground clearance.
What stuck out to me was the first 1/2" - 1" from the wheel. The IFS has much less ground clearance in that area.
@@RoadsideRC could that be resolved with some angled rod ends maybes??
I thought the same thing!
I think it would help, but be awkward with the driveshaft
@@RoadsideRC I'm looking at mine right now, the rod end in the lower arm is actually bent upwards... maybes flip it and see what happens with the camber, driveshaft angles, travel and droop, and ground clearance. Might be worth a shot if it's something that simple!
@@S9RUT I find that using a bit taller tires on IFS makes a huge difference. It's a huge difference going from 4.75" tires to 4.92" tires (Jconcepts Ruptures). It really benefits from that slight increase in height.
Been waiting on this one. Great comparison. Your right ,seems to hang up more easily. If you need a second opinion we have an ecto and a great crawler course lol 😆
I might just send it to you!!!
@@RoadsideRC That would be great! Let us know and we'll get in touch
cool 😎
Thanks!
The independent suspension is designed for riding comfort in real world. Since you're not driving the RC in actual there's no need for that. In reality the solid axle is more reliable in crawling than independent sus. While independent sus is good in a place like baja or highways.
You just gotta know how to drive it. My lcg ifs element does all the comp lines you just gotta drive it differently
It is still really capable, for sure.
However, the simple geometry just isn't as good as the solid axle.
If u portal the ifs its good but not a fan of the stock Ifs.
Still prefer sold axle non portal rigs tho. Portals made me lazy at picking a line
I haven't seen someone portal an IFS. I'll have to look into that!
I mean I'd like to try it out if you're willing to send it to me I am new to the Hobby game and I'd love to test my skills and building that
Thanks!
Already sent off to another person. Sorry!
i used a dab of hot glue for the upper hinge pin
That is smart!
I still stand behind what I posted. No ifs. More moving parts..
I'm actually confused if you are trying to suggest that IFS is better or worse than solid. Your previous post wasn't clear from how I read it.
@@RoadsideRC sorry for that. Lo.
Ifs being worse with more moving parts and less clearance
@@jeffakers9752 Did you actually watch this video? That is the exact conclusion.
@@RoadsideRC yes
Second test was straight Axel. Not equal
Great show . I was interested . . IN IFS. Nor now . Thanks for saving me money
Keep the IFS and turn somthing into a buggie. Brushless . Insane. Basher. Frankenstein somthing . Injoy your 100 dolery doose. Break it . It will cost more to send it . But if you want I'll make somthing and send you videos of the results
Thanks!
I am pondering what I could do with the kit. Even think rear wheel steering...
Hell no! I’ll keep mine stock 😬
I have already swapped back to the solid axle...
IFS is for scale look and trails, not for performances, it's a shame but it is like that.
I really want it to be good. I really do!
I wonder if someone redesigns an IFS system from ground zero if the clearance issues could be avoided.
@@RoadsideRC everything is possible, but the limit is the housing (diff) clearence. IFS on 1/1 cars is made for confort, not crawling.
Throw some 2.2s on that thing and see how it does lol
I don't think I want to raise the COG with them. The truck does great now - nice and low!
Lmaooo so much less flex
The difference really surprised me.
Your front springs are too hard.
Agree! The IFS repositions them and makes it harder. These are the recommended springs.
Long story short not worth getting lol
100% not worth getting.
youre splitting hair
Maybe it doesn't show in the video, but t really was a large difference.
@@RoadsideRC I'm unboxing a TRX four but where I live in the mountains along the river back the thing is just amazing. Pile of loosebig weird rocks yeah naa
watch SOR element rc tacoma