INEOS fan here. Really sorry for ENTZ. I'm sure you will bounce back brilliantly. We may be your competitors, but we are also your friends. Kia kaha, kia māia, kia manawanui.
That was not what you were hearing! That sound is "Percussive Testing" and NOT damage to the boat's structure! Banging on it makes a very characteristic sound. But if the material is damaged inside the thickness of the hull then the sound will change. They will be banging away all over the boat listening for changes so they can positively identify where the damage is before x-raying it in detail, most likely. Do you think team members would simply be standing around while the boat somehow tore itself to shreds? No. I don't think so.
@@Chris.Davies I am talking about the moment of the accident, not the team tapping to hear the sounds afterwards! I was 60 metres away when it happened! By chance were you there? It didn't tear to shreds, it fell, and then moved (I suspect as the cradle support partially collapsed. Initially there was an explosive sound combined with a breaking sound similar to when two boats collided.
Over 10 million dollars boats. 6 of them . I guess they only hire brand new cranes with best operators in Spain to handle those unique fast boats. 75 feet racing yachts weighting only 6 tonnes. That crane must have failed badly.
I hope the damage in not serious. How did the crane fail, they do not fail normally unless they are old or badly maintained. I hope it wasn't sabotaged.😢
I've worked on a few major boat repairs, but not from falling from the sky down (the repairs I've been involved with are due to point-loading when being hit by another boat). With gravity and the weight of that boat........what else is damaged or shifted inside the boat? Assuming that the hull shape hasn't been changed by the impact? Then you're pretty lucky to that point. Anything can be repaired but what does that do for team confidence and the crew that will sail it??? Nevertheless, it's a massive task.
Cranes dont normally fail, and the boat only weights 6 tons , so the crane needs to be checked over for sabotage " as would be normal for any industrial accident"
Let’s think about this. Did the whole boat drop ? Looking at the boat from afar was it only the front cradle that tilted forward thus causing the so called fall ? I note that the forward end of the boat being supported up level. If there was major internal damage it would not be lifted like that ? I have driven cranes. Loads do NOT DROP! As brake bands are applied to wire rope drums or the like come on when the hoisting or lowering is paused. If the drum did continue to turn while under load then there must have been a fault ? Or the operator let it free fall? Most lowering is carried out when under load is a power down. WHO supplied the crane, driver and is the crane fully certified to work the stated loads at all rated radiuses. Is or was there a qualified crane operator at the controls? Was the crane in a locked mode when not manned? Or did the boat cradle collapse? Last but not least has the media blown it up out of all proportion?
@@stephenmead8183reporting said it fell 6-7 meters onto the front cradle, which partially collapsed under the impact. they lifted it onto a different cradle to stabilize it, don’t think they had much choice in the matter even if it was damaged
@@stephenmead8183 Full investigation, pre-start documentation on estimated weights and measures. Crane maintenance records and certifications, driver drug and alcohol test😂😅😂😅
Cranes often fail. That’s why you have redundancies and controls in place when lifting critical plant. They did not have a fail safe in place which should have been risked assessed based on potential for a crane failure. The crane failure is one root cause no redundancy control is another root cause, human error could be another root cause. Not sure how sabotage could be a root cause if the crane operator and lifting team conducted all there pre lift checks and risk assessment controls. Personally working in oil/gas and construction all my life I have investigated many crane failure incidents.
daddy his name kepy popping-off inside my head as well. dennis connor will always be remembered for being the 'Biggest Baddest Dirtiest Loser' in cup history
Bad news to wake up and read this. Apart from the contact points with the cradle on the hull side imagine the force of the mast on the deck. That would be even harder to repair. Like many other comment here it all seems a little bit to convenient especially when no boats have ever been dropped before.
Carbon fibre LOVES impacts, and it able to deforrm well beyond the limits of other material, before is breaks. That is is one of the reasons they use it, Yes, some possible delamination, but... so what? You're a "glass always empty" kind of guy, huh?
@@Chris.DaviesCarbon loves strain not (sharp) impacts. It’s brittle. But broken and delaminated areas can be fixed. Check on 11th hour racing. Still AC-boats for sure have less reserves and the weight constraints will be tight to meet.
Someone trying to destroy the ETNZ boat. . And I don't know why Jimmy Spithill was complain, .. everyone knew what was happening to the ETNZ boat... It seems to me all boats they're all wanted to beat ETNZ. As specially Luna Rosa, American Magic, and Britain Ingles. . Just play the game , ..and see who's win,,, the game is not the begining, but at the end of the game, and you know ... Luna Rosa, American Magic, or Britain Ingles or Aligning, Orient France... or ETNZ. If you win, you've done a great job and what you've say it alright because you're the champion of the Americas cup 2024..... Good luck all of the boats.
I really hope so. It is typical that the crane operator company and the crane manufacturer both have responsibility. I would imagine they are very keen to have the truth found much like in the airline industry. If it is either an opposing team to sabotage or team NZ for insurance I would be far more disappointed though such things have happened in the past I've heard.
What is the old saying - "If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and sounds like a duck it is probably a duck". This "I dropped the boat accidentally" smells of deliberate.
I think there would be a solution. Orient Express team owns the same vessel of Kiwis. For sure the frenchman cannot win LVC so this boat can be resell to the kiwis and it would be easy to repaint her with ETNZ colors.
Does this mean that if the Kiwis race with the French boat they have the same performance? What are you saying? Don't you think there is a huge difference between the 2 boats, the French one has been modified at will, consequently, it is no longer the same boat and it shows, come on.......
@@mauryi4770 I think you're right. My statement was only an ipothesis... I know how AC rules are so severe... For sporting reasons it would be deprecable do not have 2 contenders for final AC match races. Now day it seems that Taihoro has been repaired and will be tested on water very soon. That's a good news!
I years of experience with cranes, driver is directed via dogman from ground, there's no way this should of happened 6 tonne multi million dollar boat vs 20 tonne concrete panel etc equals death on a building site definitely human error, win at all costs they say 100% deliberate
So question has to be asked. ETNZ has beaten nearly all the teams. Has a team paid off a crane driver to put ETNZ out of the regatta. This needs to be fully investigated im sure it will be.
Maybe the crane operator was also paid by ETNZ, he saw the recovery of LUNA ROSSA of more than 400m with the penalties included, are they redoing the boat? hahahaha
@@mauryi4770 You have to be joking. ETNZ caught them up and sailed right past them. Can you name any other Americas cup tournament where a yacht has been dropped 6 meters to the ground
Lock up the crane operater...go after the company ...ZERO excuses for this sort of bs... cranes have built in safety factors...there was absolutely no need for this nonsense....how did this go UNCHECKED into a high end operation like a team nz ac campaign? ZERO tolerance for this sort of unprofessional conduct
Maybe. Why have we not seen/heard from actual footage and questioning of crane operator, company etc? There are NO conspiracy theorists, just truth seekers.
Who was the crane operator,? how much was he paid,? Or was it inattention on the Kiwis side, what a shame, Kiwis were on a high, now they'll be in catch up mode, damn shame.
There is no way KIWIS were not paying attention we are not rich but we are extremely careful. Kia kaha team ETNZ 💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜sending love and support from home
@janetihaka799 Paying attention standing on the dock. Not in the crane cab. Never forget all the under hand tactis and spying used by other teams before.
But afterwards when they have plenty of time and money to come back? What's the point. More likely if it was foul play that it would be team NZ for the insurance money? I think negligence by the crane company is far, far more likely. The manufacturers take it very seriously, the sabotage route makes less sense for less gain so I think simple breakage is pretty likely.
A 6m drop, the hull has to have been compromised, no way they built her tough enough to handle that kind of drop, she'd be way too heavy it she were. How many hulls were each team allowed to make?
This is it. The original one was sold to the French. And when you are building a boat as light as possible even when it is pushed to such extremes it is never built to take a 6 meter drop as you are not supposed to drop them.
@@peterdykzeul3074 These are the plans and the concept which were sold to the Frenchman. The boat was built in the “Multiplast” shipyards in Lorient (France).
@@peterdykzeul3074 Yep, that's my view as well, they do not build them like tanks as weight (mass) is a killer of performance. One of the teams has broken at least one mast and it looks like they went a little too far in making it light.
This smells funny! As others with intimate Crane operational expertise have intimated...this only happens with incompetence, or on purpose. Suspicious based on that, also NZ is the Defender, controversy about participation as a Defender in Louis Vutton, and only Team NZs boat! If I was a detective, based on that be opening a file
If you use a construction crane, probably for reasons of space, you can't expect any better, moreover the New Zealanders went to Barcelona for pure profit and because they didn't want the invasion of tourists.....on their land.........as essay "Karma" said
The Crane gig is basic and easy. It will be incompetence. Most of us Kiwis pretty upset Cup not held in NZ as we NEED the benefits plus Govt has helped save and fund the Team in the past! However, our real issue is we lack Corporate $$$ and to prevent the Team imploding or being stolen (happened many times before) I guess Dalts etc... sold to the highest bidder. If we do win, hope they come back even if it means we are underfunded
ETNZ makes the rules, but I wonder if it is right to do them this way, to participate in the cup from the beginning, with the approval of ineos too. I remind you that the races against ETNZ do not give points, the other teams must risk a problem in that race with the possibility of being able to do the following one when they have to do 2 in the same day, At least they could have made an agreement that ETMZ would race in the last race in the daily round, it seems like bullshit to me, it is right that the defender dictates the rules, but there is a limit, too much advantage, it is not good. In short, they do everything to win as is right, but a bit of healthy competition is also needed, they should have participated only in the final as they have always done. I am sorry for the incident anyway, let's hope it is only slight, but I am happy that they stay out of the LWCUP. He who wants too much gets nothing
maybe your right... but if this was their only race in the round robins Im glad they had a chance to check-in with Luna Rossa who in my opinion is the one to win their LV CUP
From memory back in 2017 Oracle Team USA inserted themselves into the Cup Challenger series and took points for their wins and entered the actual Cup Race with a point from the challenger series. Luckily ETNZ won 7 - 1. My question is did you query Oracles position back in 2017 or just the Kiwis this time round who take no points??
challengers needs as much info on what they are facing including the defender. seeing the info in action is crucial for practice time..lucky downtime is still included, all teams no why.. weather,homework etc. while the rules are straight forward, no one team has an advantage over the other(unless you leading on the board). your advantage is on the water somewhere on race day, thats if you can make it to the starting line. The defenders will turn up on the day, hopefully the boat was just a tad dehydrated and nothing more..
Historically the defender has run a 2 or more boats and can get race ready , this time they only have 1, ( actually it's not even a whole boat anymore ) what was important was the time that they had to implement modifications
That's brutal. Such a shame for such a great team.
INEOS fan here. Really sorry for ENTZ. I'm sure you will bounce back brilliantly. We may be your competitors, but we are also your friends. Kia kaha, kia māia, kia manawanui.
no video of the crane and the boat and the accident??
@@marcelnz maybe something will appear, there are typically a few public watching from the street.
Heart-Broken for our Team .... but if anyone can .....KIWIS CAN ...stand strong boys.. Arohanui too the whole TEAM...Kiakaha ❤
Ausies got your back cause its not a Test Match :)
Wow! ETNZ sorry to hear this happened, hope for the best.
That horrible noise of carbon splintering... It was horrendous... Very sad...
That was not what you were hearing!
That sound is "Percussive Testing" and NOT damage to the boat's structure!
Banging on it makes a very characteristic sound. But if the material is damaged inside the thickness of the hull then the sound will change.
They will be banging away all over the boat listening for changes so they can positively identify where the damage is before x-raying it in detail, most likely.
Do you think team members would simply be standing around while the boat somehow tore itself to shreds? No. I don't think so.
@@Chris.Davies I am talking about the moment of the accident, not the team tapping to hear the sounds afterwards! I was 60 metres away when it happened! By chance were you there? It didn't tear to shreds, it fell, and then moved (I suspect as the cradle support partially collapsed. Initially there was an explosive sound combined with a breaking sound similar to when two boats collided.
Equipment personnel keep an eye on that kind of stuff unless people r already their to help with that anyways go hard kiwis
Really really hope your boat can be repaired in time for the racing, fingers crossed for the team. 🤞🤞
Over 10 million dollars boats. 6 of them . I guess they only hire brand new cranes with best operators in Spain to handle those unique fast boats. 75 feet racing yachts weighting only 6 tonnes. That crane must have failed badly.
When do cranes fail?? Its not like its heavy for a big crane....
Omg we don’t have a lot of money either .GOD BLESS TEAM ETNZ and GRANT DALTON. 🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤
For real, $$$$ was paid to drop our super boat. Emm 😮
I hope the damage in not serious. How did the crane fail, they do not fail normally unless they are old or badly maintained. I hope it wasn't sabotaged.😢
I've worked on a few major boat repairs, but not from falling from the sky down (the repairs I've been involved with are due to point-loading when being hit by another boat). With gravity and the weight of that boat........what else is damaged or shifted inside the boat? Assuming that the hull shape hasn't been changed by the impact? Then you're pretty lucky to that point. Anything can be repaired but what does that do for team confidence and the crew that will sail it??? Nevertheless, it's a massive task.
Cranes dont normally fail, and the boat only weights 6 tons , so the crane needs to be checked over for sabotage " as would be normal for any industrial accident"
@hanshoogendyk2203 Plus the driver has he been got at
Let’s think about this. Did the whole boat drop ? Looking at the boat from afar was it only the front cradle that tilted forward thus causing the so called fall ? I note that the forward end of the boat being supported up level. If there was major internal damage it would not be lifted like that ?
I have driven cranes. Loads do NOT DROP! As brake bands are applied to wire rope drums or the like come on when the hoisting or lowering is paused. If the drum did continue to turn while under load then there must have been a fault ? Or the operator let it free fall? Most lowering is carried out when under load is a power down. WHO supplied the crane, driver and is the crane fully certified to work the stated loads at all rated radiuses. Is or was there a qualified crane operator at the controls? Was the crane in a locked mode when not manned? Or did the boat cradle collapse?
Last but not least has the media blown it up out of all proportion?
@@stephenmead8183reporting said it fell 6-7 meters onto the front cradle, which partially collapsed under the impact. they lifted it onto a different cradle to stabilize it, don’t think they had much choice in the matter even if it was damaged
@@stephenmead8183
Full investigation, pre-start documentation on estimated weights and measures.
Crane maintenance records and certifications, driver drug and alcohol test😂😅😂😅
Cranes often fail. That’s why you have redundancies and controls in place when lifting critical plant. They did not have a fail safe in place which should have been risked assessed based on potential for a crane failure. The crane failure is one root cause no redundancy control is another root cause, human error could be another root cause. Not sure how sabotage could be a root cause if the crane operator and lifting team conducted all there pre lift checks and risk assessment controls. Personally working in oil/gas and construction all my life I have investigated many crane failure incidents.
That's not good.
Wtf ,so dodgy ,how can this happen,just like dennis connor days
daddy his name kepy popping-off inside my head as well.
dennis connor will always be remembered for being the 'Biggest Baddest Dirtiest Loser' in cup history
o m g.....
Bad news to wake up and read this. Apart from the contact points with the cradle on the hull side imagine the force of the mast on the deck. That would be even harder to repair.
Like many other comment here it all seems a little bit to convenient especially when no boats have ever been dropped before.
Carbon fibre doesn't like impacts, and there are probably delaminated regions as well. Not simple to fix.
Carbon fibre LOVES impacts, and it able to deforrm well beyond the limits of other material, before is breaks. That is is one of the reasons they use it,
Yes, some possible delamination, but... so what?
You're a "glass always empty" kind of guy, huh?
@@Chris.DaviesCarbon loves strain not (sharp) impacts. It’s brittle. But broken and delaminated areas can be fixed. Check on 11th hour racing. Still AC-boats for sure have less reserves and the weight constraints will be tight to meet.
@@alexandermenck6609Exactly 💯....
Carbon does not love sharp impacts...especially the way these boats are built
Oh crapalina
Someone trying to destroy the ETNZ boat. . And I don't know why Jimmy Spithill was complain, .. everyone knew what was happening to the ETNZ boat... It seems to me all boats they're all wanted to beat ETNZ. As specially Luna Rosa, American Magic, and Britain Ingles. . Just play the game , ..and see who's win,,, the game is not the begining, but at the end of the game, and you know ... Luna Rosa, American Magic, or Britain Ingles or Aligning, Orient France... or ETNZ. If you win, you've done a great job and what you've say it alright because you're the champion of the Americas cup 2024..... Good luck all of the boats.
But was it an accident?
I really hope so. It is typical that the crane operator company and the crane manufacturer both have responsibility. I would imagine they are very keen to have the truth found much like in the airline industry.
If it is either an opposing team to sabotage or team NZ for insurance I would be far more disappointed though such things have happened in the past I've heard.
,6m that boat is toast
darn
6M Drop? Yeah, its a write off. Although, hopefully it wasn't 6m
What is the old saying - "If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and sounds like a duck it is probably a duck".
This "I dropped the boat accidentally" smells of deliberate.
Well the front fell off
I think there would be a solution.
Orient Express team owns the same vessel of Kiwis. For sure the frenchman cannot win LVC so this boat can be resell to the kiwis and it would be easy to repaint her with ETNZ colors.
Like you're thinking
Does this mean that if the Kiwis race with the French boat they have the same performance? What are you saying? Don't you think there is a huge difference between the 2 boats, the French one has been modified at will, consequently, it is no longer the same boat and it shows, come on.......
@@mauryi4770 I think you're right. My statement was only an ipothesis... I know how AC rules are so severe...
For sporting reasons it would be deprecable do not have 2 contenders for final AC match races.
Now day it seems that Taihoro has been repaired and will be tested on water very soon.
That's a good news!
😮 shocker unlucky !
I years of experience with cranes, driver is directed via dogman from ground, there's no way this should of happened 6 tonne multi million dollar boat vs 20 tonne concrete panel etc equals death on a building site definitely human error, win at all costs they say 100% deliberate
really?? 🤔
Its not a comp without team etnz
Bugger this looks dodgy
That can't happen without disabling the safety brake, the load brake and the gravity brake.
So question has to be asked. ETNZ has beaten nearly all the teams. Has a team paid off a crane driver to put ETNZ out of the regatta. This needs to be fully investigated im sure it will be.
Maybe the crane operator was also paid by ETNZ, he saw the recovery of LUNA ROSSA of more than 400m with the penalties included, are they redoing the boat? hahahaha
@@mauryi4770LR was smashed by ETNZ lastnight! i dont think so
@@mauryi4770 You have to be joking. ETNZ caught them up and sailed right past them. Can you name any other Americas cup tournament where a yacht has been dropped 6 meters to the ground
Wow... Conspiracy theories? !
Nuts.
Remember suzie
😅.
And the cheating begins!
😂 give the bookies a call back you reckon, without the boys knowing.
Carbo fibre boat dropped from 7 m... surely it full of cracks s and structurally unsound?!
Lock up the crane operater...go after the company ...ZERO excuses for this sort of bs... cranes have built in safety factors...there was absolutely no need for this nonsense....how did this go UNCHECKED into a high end operation like a team nz ac campaign?
ZERO tolerance for this sort of unprofessional conduct
I bet nz was winning too 🤔
your bet is right 😆
SABOTAGE!!!!!
Maybe. Why have we not seen/heard from actual footage and questioning of crane operator, company etc? There are NO conspiracy theorists, just truth seekers.
Who was the crane operator,? how much was he paid,? Or was it inattention on the Kiwis side, what a shame, Kiwis were on a high, now they'll be in catch up mode, damn shame.
There is no way KIWIS were not paying attention we are not rich but we are extremely careful. Kia kaha team ETNZ 💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜sending love and support from home
@janetihaka799 Paying attention standing on the dock. Not in the crane cab. Never forget all the under hand tactis and spying used by other teams before.
As we know from the past, team NZ has many haters so I wouldnt doubt sabotage. They are just so dominate 😂
But afterwards when they have plenty of time and money to come back? What's the point. More likely if it was foul play that it would be team NZ for the insurance money?
I think negligence by the crane company is far, far more likely. The manufacturers take it very seriously, the sabotage route makes less sense for less gain so I think simple breakage is pretty likely.
It's a conspiracy...I blame Trump.
Or was it Putin?
clearly both were in cahoots
@@MrAhuapai😂😂😂
Some would say Hamas
Which team paid off the crane driver?
Putin of course, who else could that be?
godo
A 6m drop, the hull has to have been compromised, no way they built her tough enough to handle that kind of drop, she'd be way too heavy it she were. How many hulls were each team allowed to make?
This is it. The original one was sold to the French. And when you are building a boat as light as possible even when it is pushed to such extremes it is never built to take a 6 meter drop as you are not supposed to drop them.
@@peterdykzeul3074 These are the plans and the concept which were sold to the Frenchman. The boat was built in the “Multiplast” shipyards in Lorient (France).
Only one gull is admitted in this AC
@@peterdykzeul3074 Yep, that's my view as well, they do not build them like tanks as weight (mass) is a killer of performance. One of the teams has broken at least one mast and it looks like they went a little too far in making it light.
Every time,I swear owners of americas cup don’t do their job. They can’t hold team NZ down in the water so they sabotage them out of the water.
Sabotaged by one of the other teams. Its Europe a lot of dodgy mobs over there.
This smells funny! As others with intimate Crane operational expertise have intimated...this only happens with incompetence, or on purpose. Suspicious based on that, also NZ is the Defender, controversy about participation as a Defender in Louis Vutton, and only Team NZs boat! If I was a detective, based on that be opening a file
If you use a construction crane, probably for reasons of space, you can't expect any better, moreover the New Zealanders went to Barcelona for pure profit and because they didn't want the invasion of tourists.....on their land.........as essay "Karma" said
The Crane gig is basic and easy. It will be incompetence. Most of us Kiwis pretty upset Cup not held in NZ as we NEED the benefits plus Govt has helped save and fund the Team in the past! However, our real issue is we lack Corporate $$$ and to prevent the Team imploding or being stolen (happened many times before) I guess Dalts etc... sold to the highest bidder. If we do win, hope they come back even if it means we are underfunded
ETNZ makes the rules, but I wonder if it is right to do them this way, to participate in the cup from the beginning, with the approval of ineos too. I remind you that the races against ETNZ do not give points, the other teams must risk a problem in that race with the possibility of being able to do the following one when they have to do 2 in the same day, At least they could have made an agreement that ETMZ would race in the last race in the daily round, it seems like bullshit to me, it is right that the defender dictates the rules, but there is a limit, too much advantage, it is not good. In short, they do everything to win as is right, but a bit of healthy competition is also needed, they should have participated only in the final as they have always done. I am sorry for the incident anyway, let's hope it is only slight, but I am happy that they stay out of the LWCUP. He who wants too much gets nothing
its the Americas cup, its always favoured the defender, do some research
maybe your right... but if this was their only race in the round robins Im glad they had a chance to check-in with Luna Rossa who in my opinion is the one to win their LV CUP
From memory back in 2017 Oracle Team USA inserted themselves into the Cup Challenger series and took points for their wins and entered the actual Cup Race with a point from the challenger series. Luckily ETNZ won 7 - 1. My question is did you query Oracles position back in 2017 or just the Kiwis this time round who take no points??
challengers needs as much info on what they are facing including the defender. seeing the info in action is crucial for practice time..lucky downtime is still included, all teams no why.. weather,homework etc. while the rules are straight forward, no one team has an advantage over the other(unless you leading on the board). your advantage is on the water somewhere on race day, thats if you can make it to the starting line. The defenders will turn up on the day, hopefully the boat was just a tad dehydrated and nothing more..
Historically the defender has run a 2 or more boats and can get race ready , this time they only have 1, ( actually it's not even a whole boat anymore ) what was important was the time that they had to implement modifications