I hate PPCs and wouldn't own either. But if you're going to buy me one I would absolutely go with the Scorpion. For one I think it looks cool, and I just don't trust Sig these days (accept their optics but they're made by holosun). I know that's going to ruffle feathers but it's just my opinion.
@@spencerfoster8346 Ah, ok. Well all I know is my romeo5 and romeo7 have been bombproof so far. I really do love Sig optics. Especially when trying to outfit every gun with an optic is not cheap. So the romeo series is the shit.
The direct blowback on that cz is noticeably increasing your recoil. I see how much faster you can shoot that sig too. I'd say reliability and longevity is worth the price difference on the sig. Plus to get a trigger even close to as good as the sig will up your price a couple hundred. Edit: oops, meant to post on the main comment section. O well
Well, with Sig, you're part of the R&D team, but you don't get paid. You get to solve their problem, and pay your own money to get their gun to be functional and accurate.
I was going to say the same thing.... why would a person pay a premium to buy it. Then have to fix it... that hurts because I'm in the market for a 9mm in the $1500-$2000 range :(
Pistol caliber long arms are similar to or more expensive than, less proven and has similar to or more recoil (if simple blowback) with more powerful rifles. Would never buy
SIG CEO: "We're going to increase our profit by millions!" Rookie VP: "How will we do that, sir?" SIG CEO: "We'll use our brand's reputation to charge huge amounts of money on new guns and gear, but we'll drastically cut costs in quality control!" Rookie VP: "But sir, American consumers would never let us screw them like that." SIG CEO: "Just wait and see..."
LOL, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I was laughing my ass off when we filmed it because I knew no one would expect it. Yeah, I'm a shameless gamer. I love CoD and Cold War.
The Scorpion is the Hyundai of PCCs. Affordable, fairly reliable, some durability issues, and plenty of aftermarket support. The MPX-K is the Lexus. Expensive, ultra reliable, no durability issues, and limited aftermarket support. In a world crowded with Hyundais, i chose the Lexus.
@@nikik5567 you may not intend to use any of your weapons in adverse conditions on a regular basis, but unless you are of the thinking that firearms only have their place on a range reliability is a requirement. I may live where it never snows and I may only drive on hard surfaces but I would not limit myself by driving a vehicle that has little ground clearance and is two wheel drive. An unreliable firearm in adverse conditions is simply not worth the money that they ask for period.
@@christianarrington6492 to some people yes. To most of the people buying guns today, no. I sell the things for a living. I’ve told people of these tests. I’d say 90% of them don’t care about it. That’s my point. Most people buying these things are buying them to only ever use them on the range. They have like one gun they think they’ll ever use for defense and all others are just range toys in their mind.
@@nikik5567 all of my students care but they are all more serious about the second amendment as well as being a mature and responsible owner and operator of a firearm. Can't stop people from buying them as toys tho, so I'll just avoid them like the ND risk they are and continue training the people who actually want to be alive a day after SHTF.
@@christianarrington6492 well then congrats, ur students are the other 90% that care. All I’m saying is that most of the market won’t use these guns in anything other than the best range conditions. So to them reliability in an environment they don’t believe they’ll ever shoot the gun in isn’t worth the extra money.
@@gerthddyn Yeah, I don’t know why he keeps bringing up that he had to buy the barrel. Then says the aftermarket company states it’s the gas system with the issue and not the barrel. Either way it’s very bad that an $1800 gun has the issues.
@Peder Hansen They closed all offices, production halls, put their employees on a no payment list, stopped production, marketing etc. I got this from an ex collegue who worked there, my local news (I live there), and a Sig Newsletter.
@Peder Hansen Yes the site is up. But Sig Sauer themselves currently dont do any business anymore. They shifted it to their partners for now. Mostly because being a gun company in germany isnt going so well anymore since regulations are getting too strict. According to Sig Sauer at least. Im working for Rheinmetall myself and I can partialy agree.
I have both CZ Scorpion & Sig MPX Copperhead 4.5 inch barrel probably gen 2.5ish. Haven't shot either with a suppressor. Both are super reliable. The Sig has way less recoil than the CZ due to design. One is a blow back the other a short stroke piston system. Have had Both of them SBR'd with full sized stocks. The Sig was nearly 1K more but is one one I would choose if I had one choice.
I started to buy the Sig when it first came out but wasn’t willing to bite on a new model. Pulled the trigger on the Scorpion and never looked back, support for the Scorpion is unbelievable and the cool factor is fantastic. For a 9 mm fun gun the Scorpion is just right!
15:25 They'd never do that. It would require Sig to admit that they made mistakes and bad products, instead of secretly updating and changing things and hoping no one will notice.
Although the scorpion didn’t perform well in the gauntlet test, I do have a few ideas on things for the recoil rod on the scorpion to possibly prevent that from happening and maybe get better results out of it when doing another gauntlet test. About 4-5 months ago I was in the market for a PCC and had to chose between a scorpion and a MPX from my budget, at the time the MPX was priced as $1800 vs $1100 for my Scorpion S2 micro. I chose the Scorpion and fully upgraded it with a nice holographic optic, trigger, trigger springs, pistol grip, QD Sling mounts, safety delete, charging handle, weapon light, and multiple extra magazines for about the same price I would have just got a stock MPX for. You shouldn’t have to go out and spend an extra $600 bucks on a new barrel and gas system to get better groupings at 11-12 yards on an $1800 to now a $2200 and even $4000 for the John wick edition on a factory PCC. To me that is ridiculous. So far my Scorpion has been amazing and very reliable with a little under 1000 rounds through it. If I had to do it all over again I think I would still choose the scorpion knowing that the price is better, it’s reliable, and could dump that $600 onto other stuff rather then a new barrel and gas system like the MPX in order for it to be accurate. I must say even with that rust, the scorpion is still shooting and is still accurate with the rust issues while still running the stock barrel and internals I might add. Love your videos and content. Always provide quality information.
You used multiple Sig’s in past 6 years due to design updates, different configurations from failures. But only one Scorpion and that says it all. CZ is better.
Sig: dominating military contracts Also sig: using their customers as test subjects and requiring aftermarket to make its reliability and competency equal to its cheaper, bone stock, peers
Honestly, whenever Sig gets a mil contract, its QC drops, particularly on the civilian market. Additionally, Sig does not get all the mil contracts. They get US army ones for price and political reasons. HK, FN, B&T ( late comer with their APC9) still dominate the mil market and they make much better weapons.
I’m scared to see the Banshee go down. Never meet your heroes, and if you don’t definitely don’t test them. Butttttt...... absolutely go ham on a 10mm I definitely want to see it.
@@nikik5567 I've got one of the surplus models they sold following the Army trial. It's a safe queen so I haven't fired it but my understanding is Sig fixed the issues before they sold them. We'll see if I ever drop it......lol
@@michaelrouse627 yeah so do I and now they do, cuz they retrofitted them, the triggers and shit are not the same original triggers they had. Besides having one of those as a safe queen is funny. Those were issued guns, they were used and abused.
Your common sense commentary on all subjects is very greatly appreciated by this old time ex-soldier (1961-1963) and old retired Detroit PD retiree (1966-1991). Keep up the good first rate work.
I’m not trying to sound crass but I’ll take a little rust in a gun that still runs and shoots accurately over a $2400 status symbol. Out of the box it’s less accurate. I don’t ever plan on going over the beach with a suppressed 9mm carbine so the gauntlet test is kinda pointless in this case. If I had $2400 to blow on a 9mm PCC I’d get a MP5 clone
"a little rust" Lol once rust takes hold of your weapon you may as well throw it in the trash right then and there. It's over. I by no means run my guns through a "gauntlet". But after watching this, I'd never take a Scorpion out in a light drizzle, or even a humid summer day. People rip on the premium price, but you get what you pay for, in guns even more than anything else.
@@jazon9 well not really? I shot and handled a MPX, CZ MICRO, actual HK MP5, UMP40, and B&T APC PRO. B&T is equal to better than the beloved MP5. The MPX has a break in period. For a $1500 to $1800 gun, it has a terrible forend rattle. To eliminate the rattle, I had to use a piece of TIN FOIL as a shim. The MPX Gen 2 is also heavy and the mags are outrageously priced. CZ MICRO is light weight and shoots well out of the box. However, there's a terrible lower receiver rattle with the trigger guard. I had to use a piece of rolled up gorilla tape to act as a buffer/shim against the trigger guard and pistol grip to eliminate the rattle. The HK MP5 feels like a solid piece of firearm. There's no rattle to the gun, it's battle proven. However, maintenance is a bitch. H&K doesn't have great customer service, because of all their military contracts. B&T APC Pro, capable of taking glock mags and AR accessories. Shoots great out of the box, for a submachine gun it can easily keyhole rounds at 25yards. Also, feels like a solid piece of firearm just like the MP5, no rattle. The action was extremely smooth. All the controls mimic an AR and practical. It's reliable. I think it's worth the money.
@@KeterMalkuth how much is their GHM9 in ur teritory? Here (in CZ) its like 25% more than the Evo, but bets it to the ground. The only downside I see is the mag price.
Except the gmh9c is $300 less than the sig and his sig as configured is still slightly more than a ap9 pro k. Not to mention in the current market B&t are way easier to get at retail.
This was a super well-conducted and broad range review of 2 guns and in my opinion you covered accuracy as well as harsh condition stability. Well done! I wish more reviews were done like yours are
I’d just go with a APC9 at the price the Sig will run you. I’ve got a Scorpion too, no rust or reliability issues, but also haven’t dumped it in a bucket of mud or sand. I love my Scorpion and APC9, but not so sure on the MPX after seeing all these videos.
" if I could only have 1 of the 2 guns..." The real question should be; If I can have 1 Sig MPX OR 2 scorpion + a case of ammo + a bunch of spare mags...
Lol he didn’t even use the original parts to see if they rust lol and probably cleaned the sig because its 2400dollars and not the scorpion lol my scorpion has never rusted lol and never clean
Only if your running a can. Most carbines require adjusting the gas when you run a can. The mpx is actually one of the most accurate out if the box of all pccs, right up there with the mp5
I bought a Scorpion yesterday, wouldn't have minded an MPX but it's almost twice the price of the CZ. The one I bought was imported as a pistol, but I already bought and installed the OEM stock, one of the very few nice things about living in South Africa is that I don't really have a limit on what I can put on my firearms as long as I don't change out parts with serial numbers or turn them full auto. Now I have to apply for the license, that can take anywhere from 1 month to a year, but when the license gets approved I'm going to add a suppressor, Magpul pistol grip, Magpul 35 round mags, the mini AK style selector switch for the right side, and then I just have to decide on an optic. Can't wait to get it.
TIM look at the difference in your beards!!! I never noticed until now. It's funny how people change but you don't notice until you look at pics. Looks good brother!!!
I see your point about reliability but I can get over the price and upgrades needed, so for me and my very limited budget I would pick the scorpion. Thanks for all you do for the gun community!
as an original HK-94 owner I fail to see the"need" for either of these, but I can see that they are quite fun... when you don't need to add $600 worth of parts to get them to run correctly
They definitely have uses tho. I keep a scorpion loaded with hollow points in one of the drawers for home defense. I have an AR15 but Id rather not have my ear drums completely blown out and not have to worry too much about a bullet going through my wall or a neighbors wall and hitting something I dont want it to.
I want to point out that the scorpion did indeed pass the elemental test but failed the gauntlet test. Mac said that he expects every firearm to pass the elemental test and that the gauntlet test was designed to make the guns fail. I should point out both the stribog and the MPx failed the elemental test. They did do better than the cz in the gauntlet, but technically failed the gauntlet also. So is Mac raising his expectation? Do we expect guns to pass the elemental test and pass the gauntlet? Or is the gauntlet still designed to cause failure? Because there is a pretty long list of “reliable” guns that passed elemental and failed gauntlet, same as the scorpion.
I love my CZ, and I’ve shot a few MPX’s. I like the cmmg Banshee I put together with a factory upper and a cmmg Colt mag lower more. It has less gas in the face and sounds better than my CZ or a buddies MPX.
The EVO is amazing.ive had mine for 5 years and have about $1900 total in it. With binary trigger and all the HBI cool guy stuff. And it is about as trucked out as it can be for the price of an MPX factory stock.
@@ironrangerw6r1 And what problem with "gas in Your Face" :-))))))) I hope, You cleans Your gun and have no so stupid problems with "Gas in Gesicht" like man on video .:-))
My MPX K is so darn accurate that the limiting factor was my 62 year old eyes. I zeroed it at 36yds and it shoots consistent 2inch x 2 inch groups with Federal or Speer 147gr TMJ and JHP ammo. Would you believe I installed a 1x6x24 Primary Arms Nova scope just for fun and I am accurate at 50yds ,75yds, and at 100yd are 3 inch to 6inch and circle groups. Amazing for a 4.5 inch pistol barrel. I quickly burned through over 2500rds in the last four months I love this gun! Mine is a later Gen 3 with Timney trigger and all Sigs updates on magazines, gas port..etc. 100% reliable thus far. Mine is completely stock and unsuppressed.
I have a scorpion and love it, change the trigger and it's the perfect 9mm pdw. Cheap mags, affordable gun, and reliable out of the box. If I could only have one pdw it would be the scorpion
Same. Its been great and I take it thru the mud and clay in my area. Also no rust. He must have not cleaned it after soaking it in water. I hit mine with ballistol before I go out.
I came up with this idea for a cheap reactive target. Fill up a large bag with air and get it to stand up straight. tape a cardboard target to it. when you shoot it, it looses air and falls over. you could make smaller ones with balloons or something. but it you use a large garbage bag it would be the perfect size.
All I can say is that I am grateful for having had access to Uncle's MP-5 with 3 shot burst was a blast; ammo was plentiful and always available. Today, if I could afford the thrill of my own personal MP-5, I might first have to designate a fair portion of my imaginary wealth into the acquisition of endless ammo production. Guns are fun, but without sufficient "funmunition," (that's my spur of the moment new word) I no longer see any fun; however, each and every remaining round aspires to a new meaning in life..... Thanks for the great video and fond MP-5 memories.
Oh man. I love those random jokes thrown in. That stat profile had me crying. I would take either one, but I think I would get a mp5 parts kit and have Der König of the 9mm pcc's
Sig mpx = $1800 (average price seen 2k+) Upgrades to make it work properly = $600 Total (on low end) = $2400 Also: comes with 1 mag extras around $50 each Scorpion: $800+ (average around $900) Sb brace: $200 Total: $1000-$1100 Also: additional mags (32rd about $15-20 each) Additions to add for amazing scorpion Pistol grip: $25 Trigger weight reduction kit: $9 Saftey delete: $12 Extended duckbill mag release: $30 Red dot (vortex venom): $250 9mm suppressor (Gemtech gm9, but here are cheaper and more expensive options out there): $589 Suppressor tax stamp: $200 Total: $2,115-$2,215 Essentially, you can have a scorpion, similar to MAC's TO INCLUDE A SUPPRESSOR!!!!! And an additonal 9 32 round magazine (at the $20 price) for the price of a MPX, 1 mag, and Upgrades so it operates properly. No sites at all, not even iron sites.
I have a Scorpion and I love it! It is too bad that the Sig is very expensive and then spend alot more money to get it to be as accurate as rhe Scorpion.
Love the video and enjoyed the choose your character video game reference. I’m choosing the MPX between the two guns. It may cost more but I’ve held both and the MPX feels better in hand than the scorpion. Also seeing the rust issues that is a problem to me. It’s not like you left it in water for days we saw the test and with the changes made by Sig it’s no contest. Pay extra get extra. What I would like to see is these two options against the B&T GHM9 that’s a PCC I have been trying to find
Tim your gun vids are the best on RUclips bar none. So informative and you are so passionate about firearms and so inquisitive like a young boy! I’ve been a subscriber since you were at 50k mark many years ago. Thank you for all the great vids!
I have a gen 1 MPX. I bought it brand new in 2015. I found that when I used a 3 lug suppressor, I also noticed larger groups. I also noticed that 3 lug isn’t exactly a precision mounting platform as the suppressor had a small amount of play/wiggle to it. I then bought a thread conversion to turn it into a 1/2x28 muzzle and switched my suppressor over to direct thread. The lockup was MUCH tighter and so were my groups.
I bought a flat dark earth (FDE) sig MPX 8 inch and loved it. I sold it due to some financial difficulties back in 2017 and it was my biggest regret they dont make the 8 inch FDE guns anymore and they have gone up in price now that I can afford to get one again. Hoping sombody lists one on gunbroker.
I laughed way harder than I should have at the “video game character select” screen. The “jump down” at the beginning is what really sold it, well done
Just bought an MPX-K, didn’t have any group issues at 10 / 15 & 20 yds with a 4.5” barrel with the proprietary flash hider, Winchester 115gr and an SRO. Feels like a ILWT ad.
I think "we" have been giving Sig a pass these past many years. It seems like for quite some time now every notable Sig new offering has come with some design flaw that is only discovered once it hits the consumer. All the while before it is released we often hear of how much time went into development and testing. As far back as the p290, onward as memory serves. A new product, and always an issue that the guinea pigs find that seem hard to miss if this extensive and exhaustive testing were done. Strangely, it doesn't seem to shake the desire for their products.
Four out of five times I bought 1st generation guns within several months of release I I was disappointed. Only my M&P 45 gave me no issues and it has the early unlock issues but is consistent so is shootable and eats everything. (So I give it a C- grade at best and that was the good purchase).
Ok let's test tuned weapon and a stock weapon .... I'll take some rust and when it becomes available use the $ I saved and buy ammo.....p.s don't drop your weapons in water,sand,dirt or mud especially if you haven't rinsed it in its own dirty water
Super stoked to hear you speak so highly of ILWT. I remember seeing one of your early MPX videos on instagram and commenting that you needed to get ahold of Rob Otte and ILWT. Glad to see you finally did and were happy with the results.
I haven’t fooled with any of the K versions, but I have a standard MPX and it has always run flawlessly and shoots great groups without any aftermarket parts other than the silencerco asr flash hider because I run it suppressed almost 100% of the time. I was back and forth between the MPX and the scorpion when I got it and haven’t regretted the heavier price tag because I really enjoy the gun.
Interesting. I have an EVO. No rust, no issues. Lots of rounds fired through it. I really like Sig but there is nothing I like about the MPX. In my opinion the Scorpion is a better gun, excellent design and better value. It’s accurate and reliable out of the crate. Great video.!
Like I said, that's the rub. If you have the money, it's a great solution after you get done fixing the issues with the gun. Thankfully Sig sent it to me free of charge. Thank you for the support!
I keep wanting to like the MPX, but every time I start to think that the gun is far enough along in its development that it is safe to buy one another problem surfaces. The MPX is on Gen 3 at this point and the magazines are on Gen 2, but just a few months ago Sig had to make a rolling change to the gas cylinder so it wouldn’t hydro-lock from a few drops of water. Having to buy an aftermarket barrel to make the gun give useable accuracy with a suppressor is just unforgivable. The fact that the MPX is a work in progress along with spotty spare parts availability led me to buy Zenith MP5 and MP5k clones back in 2017 and a HK SP5 last year. The lack of a last round bolt hold open is really the only major flaw they have compared to more modern offerings, but the recoil impulse is second to none and spare parts are readily available. People like to say that the MPX is the MP5 killer and on paper it sure looks like one. Sadly in reality it isn’t even close. Maybe in another 10 years when they hit Gen 5.
The point of his mentioning is that there is likely an inferior process to protect steel. You can "evaporate" all you want but might be possible issues in the long/short run. Steels even hammer forged one's in firearms often are treated or plated properly for corrosion resistance aka nitrided/zinc/chrome/chromium/phosphate etc. If all it takes for that particular treatment to be breached in a significant manner is water submersion (Once by mac is my assumption) that in my opinion is an important consideration.
@@koala83r72 yeah it’s not necessarily that it’s hard to get off, though I’m sure that’s annoying, it’s that all it took was a little bit of water to defeat the treatment CZ used.
@@nikik5567 imho it does not disqualify the scorpion, it is a solid firearm/pdw not to mention a good looking one as well My point is that it is not as simple as drying it out to the OP.... you just don't dry rust out.
I have the mpx k and the carbine version. I have not had the issue you saw with the accuracy. No problem at all hitting 6” steel at 50ft, and at 10yds I can destroy the A on the cardboard targets
Watching this a year later. Price delta is huge. Magazines are $14-25 for the CZ, Sig is tough to find for under $50/Magazine currently. I like the Sig, a lot. But you can find two Scorpions and buy a pile of Magizines for the same loot
Realistically neither gun is good. If one doesn’t work in adverse conditions, and the other needs 600 dollars worth of upgrades on an 1800 dollar gun in order to work correctly they’re both trash.
I am very happy with my Micro S2, HBI trigger/spring, charging handle, mag release, Wolfman with KeyMicro, 2 point sling and still have money left over to take some lessons and practice at the range as new to firearms vs the Sig. I’m also smart enough to keep dirt and water out of it.
"here is my honest and unbiased review" 'Sig donated me this mpx and even though I had to spend an additional $500 on a $2k gun just to make it hit a group at 15 yards it's hands down the better choice.' Yup no bias here at all 🤡🤣🤡🤣
In no way should a $2k Sig need additional $600 just to run correctly. Scorpion all the way.
I hate PPCs and wouldn't own either. But if you're going to buy me one I would absolutely go with the Scorpion. For one I think it looks cool, and I just don't trust Sig these days (accept their optics but they're made by holosun). I know that's going to ruffle feathers but it's just my opinion.
You can always buy a backup pistol for the extra $600 in case the Scorpion goes down, and still be well under $2000.
@@spencerfoster8346 Ah, ok. Well all I know is my romeo5 and romeo7 have been bombproof so far. I really do love Sig optics. Especially when trying to outfit every gun with an optic is not cheap. So the romeo series is the shit.
@@dongblak7048 you can buy two scorpions and a pistol
The direct blowback on that cz is noticeably increasing your recoil. I see how much faster you can shoot that sig too. I'd say reliability and longevity is worth the price difference on the sig. Plus to get a trigger even close to as good as the sig will up your price a couple hundred.
Edit: oops, meant to post on the main comment section. O well
Just remember that Robski at AK Operators Union did a 5k round gauntlet on the scorpion and it was basically flawless, did exceptionally well
I trust Robski. He's always impartial and tells it like it is.
Maybe I'm being a "poor" but spending $600 to fix a new $1800 gun is unacceptable... CZ for the win
Well, with Sig, you're part of the R&D team, but you don't get paid. You get to solve their problem, and pay your own money to get their gun to be functional and accurate.
I was going to say the same thing.... why would a person pay a premium to buy it. Then have to fix it... that hurts because I'm in the market for a 9mm in the $1500-$2000 range :(
Pistol caliber long arms are similar to or more expensive than, less proven and has similar to or more recoil (if simple blowback) with more powerful rifles. Would never buy
@@mexicanredneck760 Put in around $200 more and get a B&T APC9K
@@KM_1983 don't know much about b&t may RUclips it thank you
SIG CEO: "We're going to increase our profit by millions!"
Rookie VP: "How will we do that, sir?"
SIG CEO: "We'll use our brand's reputation to charge huge amounts of money on new guns and gear, but we'll drastically cut costs in quality control!"
Rookie VP: "But sir, American consumers would never let us screw them like that."
SIG CEO: "Just wait and see..."
Laughs in Colt
It really is dragging Sig’s rep as a top quality brand through the damn mud.
Isn't SIG An American Company now or what?
@@kamelkadri2843 SIG has been American for a while. Sig Sauer was German, but Sig is separate and very loosely related now
Your video game joke just after the14 minute mark was cracking me up. Very well done
Captain Price would be proud!
Lol
I’d play that character, except I’d give him a Mohawk, and make his beard longer, and make him female.
I nearly spit coffee all over my laptop. 😂
LOL, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I was laughing my ass off when we filmed it because I knew no one would expect it. Yeah, I'm a shameless gamer. I love CoD and Cold War.
The Scorpion is the Hyundai of PCCs. Affordable, fairly reliable, some durability issues, and plenty of aftermarket support.
The MPX-K is the Lexus. Expensive, ultra reliable, no durability issues, and limited aftermarket support.
In a world crowded with Hyundais, i chose the Lexus.
Totally didn’t expect that “choose your character” screen haha
PUBG flash backs
why do they always bob their thighs up and down in those screens though
I was dying.
@@jason200912 Makes it harder to get shot in the balls.
HILARIOUS
I'll get the scorpion and avoid vats of mud and shooting on the beach lol
That’s the thing, 99% of people buying the gun, won’t be using it in adverse conditions for that to be a real issue.
@@nikik5567 you may not intend to use any of your weapons in adverse conditions on a regular basis, but unless you are of the thinking that firearms only have their place on a range reliability is a requirement. I may live where it never snows and I may only drive on hard surfaces but I would not limit myself by driving a vehicle that has little ground clearance and is two wheel drive. An unreliable firearm in adverse conditions is simply not worth the money that they ask for period.
@@christianarrington6492 to some people yes. To most of the people buying guns today, no. I sell the things for a living. I’ve told people of these tests. I’d say 90% of them don’t care about it. That’s my point. Most people buying these things are buying them to only ever use them on the range. They have like one gun they think they’ll ever use for defense and all others are just range toys in their mind.
@@nikik5567 all of my students care but they are all more serious about the second amendment as well as being a mature and responsible owner and operator of a firearm. Can't stop people from buying them as toys tho, so I'll just avoid them like the ND risk they are and continue training the people who actually want to be alive a day after SHTF.
@@christianarrington6492 well then congrats, ur students are the other 90% that care. All I’m saying is that most of the market won’t use these guns in anything other than the best range conditions. So to them reliability in an environment they don’t believe they’ll ever shoot the gun in isn’t worth the extra money.
$1800 and you have to buy an aftermarket barrel? Shame on you Sig.....
Probably one of the reasons why only Sig USA is left. Sig Sauer is no more.
@@Waldherz Sig Sauer was better before they came to the US. They made good pistols.
@@gerthddyn Yeah, I don’t know why he keeps bringing up that he had to buy the barrel. Then says the aftermarket company states it’s the gas system with the issue and not the barrel. Either way it’s very bad that an $1800 gun has the issues.
@Peder Hansen They closed all offices, production halls, put their employees on a no payment list, stopped production, marketing etc.
I got this from an ex collegue who worked there, my local news (I live there), and a Sig Newsletter.
@Peder Hansen Yes the site is up. But Sig Sauer themselves currently dont do any business anymore. They shifted it to their partners for now.
Mostly because being a gun company in germany isnt going so well anymore since regulations are getting too strict. According to Sig Sauer at least.
Im working for Rheinmetall myself and I can partialy agree.
I have both CZ Scorpion & Sig MPX Copperhead 4.5 inch barrel probably gen 2.5ish. Haven't shot either with a suppressor. Both are super reliable. The Sig has way less recoil than the CZ due to design. One is a blow back the other a short stroke piston system. Have had Both of them SBR'd with full sized stocks. The Sig was nearly 1K more but is one one I would choose if I had one choice.
I started to buy the Sig when it first came out but wasn’t willing to bite on a new model. Pulled the trigger on the Scorpion and never looked back, support for the Scorpion is unbelievable and the cool factor is fantastic. For a 9 mm fun gun the Scorpion is just right!
thanks
now time for Tim to review the FGC 9 and gauntlet test it. ruclips.net/video/jlB2QV5wVxg/видео.html
Thumbs up just for the "chose your character" sceens :D
15:25 They'd never do that. It would require Sig to admit that they made mistakes and bad products, instead of secretly updating and changing things and hoping no one will notice.
Sig is kind of a scummy company. I, for one, do not like them or their products.
Although the scorpion didn’t perform well in the gauntlet test, I do have a few ideas on things for the recoil rod on the scorpion to possibly prevent that from happening and maybe get better results out of it when doing another gauntlet test. About 4-5 months ago I was in the market for a PCC and had to chose between a scorpion and a MPX from my budget, at the time the MPX was priced as $1800 vs $1100 for my Scorpion S2 micro. I chose the Scorpion and fully upgraded it with a nice holographic optic, trigger, trigger springs, pistol grip, QD Sling mounts, safety delete, charging handle, weapon light, and multiple extra magazines for about the same price I would have just got a stock MPX for. You shouldn’t have to go out and spend an extra $600 bucks on a new barrel and gas system to get better groupings at 11-12 yards on an $1800 to now a $2200 and even $4000 for the John wick edition on a factory PCC. To me that is ridiculous. So far my Scorpion has been amazing and very reliable with a little under 1000 rounds through it. If I had to do it all over again I think I would still choose the scorpion knowing that the price is better, it’s reliable, and could dump that $600 onto other stuff rather then a new barrel and gas system like the MPX in order for it to be accurate. I must say even with that rust, the scorpion is still shooting and is still accurate with the rust issues while still running the stock barrel and internals I might add. Love your videos and content. Always provide quality information.
thanks for these reviews. i went with AKV from PSA after your reviews
You used multiple Sig’s in past 6 years due to design updates, different configurations from failures. But only one Scorpion and that says it all. CZ is better.
Like a uzi. It works.
@@drmachinewerke1 This ☝🏻
Spot on comment, in my opinion.
Bingo. The bias towards the Sig in this video is so obvious.
I've got a scorpion and totally love it..
Sig: dominating military contracts
Also sig: using their customers as test subjects and requiring aftermarket to make its reliability and competency equal to its cheaper, bone stock, peers
Sig has learned the key to mil contracts is not to be good, but to be cheaper than anyone else.
There is no way Sig is getting those contracts honestly.
I truly believe they are paying to play. I'm sure it's nothing new.
Honestly, whenever Sig gets a mil contract, its QC drops, particularly on the civilian market. Additionally, Sig does not get all the mil contracts. They get US army ones for price and political reasons. HK, FN, B&T ( late comer with their APC9) still dominate the mil market and they make much better weapons.
Look MAC! Im helping the algorithm! Im helping! Look at me go!
Cmmg banshee gauntlet test!
Yuuuuuuuup! 👍🏼
The banshee another great 9mm pcc
...in 10mm pls 😁
I’m scared to see the Banshee go down. Never meet your heroes, and if you don’t definitely don’t test them. Butttttt...... absolutely go ham on a 10mm I definitely want to see it.
@@feed_defend_evolve 300 blackout banshee
SIG: If we released it, it isn't ready
Yup...new rule for sig is wait 3 generations till it’s (mostly) fixed
#M17
@@michaelrouse627 even it was messed up when they first made it.
@@nikik5567 I've got one of the surplus models they sold following the Army trial. It's a safe queen so I haven't fired it but my understanding is Sig fixed the issues before they sold them. We'll see if I ever drop it......lol
@@michaelrouse627 yeah so do I and now they do, cuz they retrofitted them, the triggers and shit are not the same original triggers they had. Besides having one of those as a safe queen is funny. Those were issued guns, they were used and abused.
I just bought a scorpion today. That's my fourth using your incredible, detailed videos. Thanks to you I have a line of really good firearms!
Thank you for watching!
Your common sense commentary on all subjects is very greatly appreciated by this old time ex-soldier (1961-1963) and old retired Detroit PD retiree (1966-1991). Keep up the good first rate work.
I’m not trying to sound crass but I’ll take a little rust in a gun that still runs and shoots accurately over a $2400 status symbol. Out of the box it’s less accurate. I don’t ever plan on going over the beach with a suppressed 9mm carbine so the gauntlet test is kinda pointless in this case. If I had $2400 to blow on a 9mm PCC I’d get a MP5 clone
You can probably find a sp5 at that price.
@Multicam Cossack maybe a broken one lol
"a little rust" Lol once rust takes hold of your weapon you may as well throw it in the trash right then and there. It's over.
I by no means run my guns through a "gauntlet". But after watching this, I'd never take a Scorpion out in a light drizzle, or even a humid summer day. People rip on the premium price, but you get what you pay for, in guns even more than anything else.
side note, the new segment you added at time 14:04 and 16:01 is awesome! Way to add something fun and creative.
After the MPX msrp and upgrades you're into B&T territory...
Yea. B&T is overpriced like gun use simple blow back system.
@@KeterMalkuth you guys don't seem to understand how expensive swiss labor and production is.
@JC Denton you're right, I do not. Please explain.
@@jazon9 well not really?
I shot and handled a MPX, CZ MICRO, actual HK MP5, UMP40, and B&T APC PRO.
B&T is equal to better than the beloved MP5.
The MPX has a break in period. For a $1500 to $1800 gun, it has a terrible forend rattle. To eliminate the rattle, I had to use a piece of TIN FOIL as a shim. The MPX Gen 2 is also heavy and the mags are outrageously priced.
CZ MICRO is light weight and shoots well out of the box. However, there's a terrible lower receiver rattle with the trigger guard. I had to use a piece of rolled up gorilla tape to act as a buffer/shim against the trigger guard and pistol grip to eliminate the rattle.
The HK MP5 feels like a solid piece of firearm. There's no rattle to the gun, it's battle proven. However, maintenance is a bitch. H&K doesn't have great customer service, because of all their military contracts.
B&T APC Pro, capable of taking glock mags and AR accessories. Shoots great out of the box, for a submachine gun it can easily keyhole rounds at 25yards. Also, feels like a solid piece of firearm just like the MP5, no rattle. The action was extremely smooth. All the controls mimic an AR and practical. It's reliable. I think it's worth the money.
@@KeterMalkuth how much is their GHM9 in ur teritory? Here (in CZ) its like 25% more than the Evo, but bets it to the ground. The only downside I see is the mag price.
Just the fact you can even compare a $800 Scorpion to the $2,000 MPX is a win for the Scorpion.
Is this some sort of peasant joke I’m too rich to understand? - B&T owners.
Except the gmh9c is $300 less than the sig and his sig as configured is still slightly more than a ap9 pro k. Not to mention in the current market B&t are way easier to get at retail.
then H&K owners hit you with the fist bump
@@22BStan please show me where I can get an APC9 pro glock lower. Please.
@@mvpham13 Tar Heel State firearms has them in stock now.
@@22BStan strangely, you can add to cart but availability says out of stock.
This was a super well-conducted and broad range review of 2 guns and in my opinion you covered accuracy as well as harsh condition stability. Well done! I wish more reviews were done like yours are
Thanks for your efforts to educate those unaware of proper handling and use of the platform of choice
Always excellent advice 😅
You mean sig is doing rolling changes and not tell ppl again? Say it ain't so.
It ain't so :) ... not
The consumer is always Sig’s development team.
@@ringingsteel8729 Welcome to the beta testing team, everyone!
My Gen 2.2 556R feels our collective pain
I’d just go with a APC9 at the price the Sig will run you. I’ve got a Scorpion too, no rust or reliability issues, but also haven’t dumped it in a bucket of mud or sand. I love my Scorpion and APC9, but not so sure on the MPX after seeing all these videos.
"It went down fast and went down hard."
If I get an Evo, I'm going to name it after my first wife.
Something to be said for enthusiasm.
So.... was it a Rachel, Rebecca or Jennifer?
@@SmithASB probably Becky 🤷🏾♂️
🤣
" if I could only have 1 of the 2 guns..."
The real question should be;
If I can have 1 Sig MPX OR 2 scorpion + a case of ammo + a bunch of spare mags...
Or a mid level AR and a Scorpion plus some ammo and extra mags
OR
the Sig.
OR a hi point carbine with a lot more ammo and a lot more spare mags......smh poors
@@imranescobar6120 $5,000 is a lot of money, especially for a sub gun.
Both of the Scorpions will be rusted hunks of scrap metal before the sig even starts to show signs of wear.
+ another Scorpion since the first one rusted away.
So, $800 Scorpion vs. a $1800 MPX (plus another $600+ to make it more accurate)? Seems pretty easy call to me.
Lol he didn’t even use the original parts to see if they rust lol and probably cleaned the sig because its 2400dollars and not the scorpion lol my scorpion has never rusted lol and never clean
Only if your running a can. Most carbines require adjusting the gas when you run a can. The mpx is actually one of the most accurate out if the box of all pccs, right up there with the mp5
$800? Here in Switzerland it is about $2000 🤷♂️
Sadly I just paid $920 for my Scorp :(
@What's Up? I don’t see any Scorps on Gunbroker for less than $900, seems like pre-covid pricing hasn’t tapered down yet
I bought a Scorpion yesterday, wouldn't have minded an MPX but it's almost twice the price of the CZ. The one I bought was imported as a pistol, but I already bought and installed the OEM stock, one of the very few nice things about living in South Africa is that I don't really have a limit on what I can put on my firearms as long as I don't change out parts with serial numbers or turn them full auto. Now I have to apply for the license, that can take anywhere from 1 month to a year, but when the license gets approved I'm going to add a suppressor, Magpul pistol grip, Magpul 35 round mags, the mini AK style selector switch for the right side, and then I just have to decide on an optic. Can't wait to get it.
Love my little evo shoots anything 9mm I can find nowadays lol
bought my gen 2 mpx, with no brace for $1300 back in 2019. LOVE it.
Interesting, a lot of folks have reported the scorpion holding up just fine to water and adverse use
TIM look at the difference in your beards!!! I never noticed until now. It's funny how people change but you don't notice until you look at pics. Looks good brother!!!
Its his "winter" beard 😆
Fact - 99% of wizards have white beards. The color is clearly an indication of wisdom.
A lot changes in 6 years including the color of my beard. 😂
@@justme_gb If only I could be a Wizard named Tim for a day...
Tim ages like a fine wine. (I have socks on)
I see your point about reliability but I can get over the price and upgrades needed, so for me and my very limited budget I would pick the scorpion. Thanks for all you do for the gun community!
I love my scorpion so much
Got a red dot and some magazines and ammo for about a grand..
*no comparison*
as an original HK-94 owner I fail to see the"need" for either of these, but I can see that they are quite fun... when you don't need to add $600 worth of parts to get them to run correctly
They definitely have uses tho. I keep a scorpion loaded with hollow points in one of the drawers for home defense. I have an AR15 but Id rather not have my ear drums completely blown out and not have to worry too much about a bullet going through my wall or a neighbors wall and hitting something I dont want it to.
I want to point out that the scorpion did indeed pass the elemental test but failed the gauntlet test. Mac said that he expects every firearm to pass the elemental test and that the gauntlet test was designed to make the guns fail. I should point out both the stribog and the MPx failed the elemental test. They did do better than the cz in the gauntlet, but technically failed the gauntlet also. So is Mac raising his expectation? Do we expect guns to pass the elemental test and pass the gauntlet? Or is the gauntlet still designed to cause failure? Because there is a pretty long list of “reliable” guns that passed elemental and failed gauntlet, same as the scorpion.
I would agree you are the most unbiased 2A RUclipsr I've seen.
I'm a scorpion evo3 s1 owner and I think for the price it's the best sub gun,and a great truck gun as I use mine for
I love my CZ, and I’ve shot a few MPX’s. I like the cmmg Banshee I put together with a factory upper and a cmmg Colt mag lower more. It has less gas in the face and sounds better than my CZ or a buddies MPX.
@Dun Koff delayed blowback > piston & blow black. There is a reason why the MP5 is still a gold standard for 9mm PCC suppressor hosts
I have a SIG MPX-K with a Deadair wolfman (stock barrel still installed), SIG Romeo 5 and at 25 yards it consistently hits 3 inch or less groups.
CZ, at least you know what you’re getting at half the price
The EVO is amazing.ive had mine for 5 years and have about $1900 total in it. With binary trigger and all the HBI cool guy stuff. And it is about as trucked out as it can be for the price of an MPX factory stock.
@@ironrangerw6r1 And what problem with "gas in Your Face" :-))))))) I hope, You cleans Your gun and have no so stupid problems with "Gas in Gesicht" like man on video .:-))
I’ve got nice gouges in my receiver on my MPX-K as well. Glad yo know it’s not just me. It’s my favorite 9mm in my safe.
I'm here to help the algorithm.... great videos.
My MPX K is so darn accurate that the limiting factor was my 62 year old eyes. I zeroed it at 36yds and it shoots consistent 2inch x 2 inch groups with Federal or Speer 147gr TMJ and JHP ammo. Would you believe I installed a 1x6x24 Primary Arms Nova scope just for fun and I am accurate at 50yds ,75yds, and at 100yd are 3 inch to 6inch and circle groups. Amazing for a 4.5 inch pistol barrel. I quickly burned through over 2500rds in the last four months I love this gun! Mine is a later Gen 3 with Timney trigger and all Sigs updates on magazines, gas port..etc. 100% reliable thus far. Mine is completely stock and unsuppressed.
I have a scorpion and love it, change the trigger and it's the perfect 9mm pdw. Cheap mags, affordable gun, and reliable out of the box. If I could only have one pdw it would be the scorpion
Same. Its been great and I take it thru the mud and clay in my area. Also no rust. He must have not cleaned it after soaking it in water. I hit mine with ballistol before I go out.
Excellent Comparison! Can't get warm an fuzzy about either of them.
Leaning towards getting a Stribog SP9A1.
Slightly off-topic, but I love the British Army parka.
I came up with this idea for a cheap reactive target. Fill up a large bag with air and get it to stand up straight. tape a cardboard target to it. when you shoot it, it looses air and falls over. you could make smaller ones with balloons or something. but it you use a large garbage bag it would be the perfect size.
"Went down really fast and really hard."
Sometimes that's a feature and not a defect.
All I can say is that I am grateful for having had access to Uncle's MP-5 with 3 shot burst was a blast; ammo was plentiful and always available. Today, if I could afford the thrill of my own personal MP-5, I might first have to designate a fair portion of my imaginary wealth into the acquisition of endless ammo production. Guns are fun, but without sufficient "funmunition," (that's my spur of the moment new word) I no longer see any fun; however, each and every remaining round aspires to a new meaning in life..... Thanks for the great video and fond MP-5 memories.
Oh man. I love those random jokes thrown in. That stat profile had me crying. I would take either one, but I think I would get a mp5 parts kit and have Der König of the 9mm pcc's
Lol, now try watching it 1.5x 😂
@@jsnjyn LOL, videos are always more entertaining when sped up.
@@Militaryarmschannel ...and with Yakety Sax as their soundtrack. Thank you, Benny Hill !
Sig mpx = $1800 (average price seen 2k+)
Upgrades to make it work properly = $600
Total (on low end) = $2400
Also: comes with 1 mag extras around $50 each
Scorpion: $800+ (average around $900)
Sb brace: $200
Total: $1000-$1100
Also: additional mags (32rd about $15-20 each)
Additions to add for amazing scorpion
Pistol grip: $25
Trigger weight reduction kit: $9
Saftey delete: $12
Extended duckbill mag release: $30
Red dot (vortex venom): $250
9mm suppressor (Gemtech gm9, but here are cheaper and more expensive options out there): $589
Suppressor tax stamp: $200
Total: $2,115-$2,215
Essentially, you can have a scorpion, similar to MAC's TO INCLUDE A SUPPRESSOR!!!!! And an additonal 9 32 round magazine (at the $20 price) for the price of a MPX, 1 mag, and Upgrades so it operates properly. No sites at all, not even iron sites.
I have a Scorpion and I love it! It is too bad that the Sig is very expensive and then spend alot more money to get it to be as accurate as rhe Scorpion.
CMMG Banshee 9mm conversion upper for my AR pistol with Magpul p-mag cost $760, runs perfect right out of the box, very soft shooting.
Love the video and enjoyed the choose your character video game reference.
I’m choosing the MPX between the two guns. It may cost more but I’ve held both and the MPX feels better in hand than the scorpion. Also seeing the rust issues that is a problem to me. It’s not like you left it in water for days we saw the test and with the changes made by Sig it’s no contest. Pay extra get extra. What I would like to see is these two options against the B&T GHM9 that’s a PCC I have been trying to find
Character screen was awesome. Thanks for the giggle. I love your content.
"It was SMG-45 inaccurate" damn that hit LWRC right in the feels
Unlike the SMG-45, which couldn't group on a poster size target
Tim your gun vids are the best on RUclips bar none. So informative and you are so passionate about firearms and so inquisitive like a young boy! I’ve been a subscriber since you were at 50k mark many years ago. Thank you for all the great vids!
14:03 you SOB, that was funny dude. I loved the little hop at first, like when they first load up. That was great was not expecting that 🤣😂🤣
Old MAC is getting a grey beard! The difference between your 2015 picture and now is phenomenal! I'm right behind you though. Approaching 40, fast
I’ll still pick the KP-9 over both.
I have a gen 1 MPX. I bought it brand new in 2015. I found that when I used a 3 lug suppressor, I also noticed larger groups. I also noticed that 3 lug isn’t exactly a precision mounting platform as the suppressor had a small amount of play/wiggle to it. I then bought a thread conversion to turn it into a 1/2x28 muzzle and switched my suppressor over to direct thread. The lockup was MUCH tighter and so were my groups.
I’ll just take both
Nice profile pic 👍
I bought a flat dark earth (FDE) sig MPX 8 inch and loved it. I sold it due to some financial difficulties back in 2017 and it was my biggest regret they dont make the 8 inch FDE guns anymore and they have gone up in price now that I can afford to get one again. Hoping sombody lists one on gunbroker.
Love my scorpion 🦂
I laughed way harder than I should have at the “video game character select” screen. The “jump down” at the beginning is what really sold it, well done
C) B&T APC-9
GHM9
Just bought an MPX-K, didn’t have any group issues at 10 / 15 & 20 yds with a 4.5” barrel with the proprietary flash hider, Winchester 115gr and an SRO. Feels like a ILWT ad.
I think "we" have been giving Sig a pass these past many years. It seems like for quite some time now every notable Sig new offering has come with some design flaw that is only discovered once it hits the consumer. All the while before it is released we often hear of how much time went into development and testing.
As far back as the p290, onward as memory serves. A new product, and always an issue that the guinea pigs find that seem hard to miss if this extensive and exhaustive testing were done.
Strangely, it doesn't seem to shake the desire for their products.
German made reputation still carrying the brand even though they are made here now.
one of my absolute fav. Channels , nice video as always
I'm sick of companies beta testing things on paying customers without telling them they're in a beta
Never buy a brand new product
Four out of five times I bought 1st generation guns within several months of release I I was disappointed. Only my M&P 45 gave me no issues and it has the early unlock issues but is consistent so is shootable and eats everything. (So I give it a C- grade at best and that was the good purchase).
I bought a 320 before Sig did the trigger recall.
So naturally I bought an Agency Arms flat face trigger w/inertia safety and I havent looked back.
I take my Evo out in the muddy creek for pest control, and it has no rust, and no issues at all.
14:04 Omfg you dork. That had me cracking up so hard.
I love how during that "character select" bit you can clearly see that Tim is trying so hard to keep a straight face.
Ok let's test tuned weapon and a stock weapon .... I'll take some rust and when it becomes available use the $ I saved and buy ammo.....p.s don't drop your weapons in water,sand,dirt or mud especially if you haven't rinsed it in its own dirty water
Super stoked to hear you speak so highly of ILWT. I remember seeing one of your early MPX videos on instagram and commenting that you needed to get ahold of Rob Otte and ILWT. Glad to see you finally did and were happy with the results.
I haven’t fooled with any of the K versions, but I have a standard MPX and it has always run flawlessly and shoots great groups without any aftermarket parts other than the silencerco asr flash hider because I run it suppressed almost 100% of the time. I was back and forth between the MPX and the scorpion when I got it and haven’t regretted the heavier price tag because I really enjoy the gun.
Interesting. I have an EVO. No rust, no issues. Lots of rounds fired through it. I really like Sig but there is nothing I like about the MPX. In my opinion the Scorpion is a better gun, excellent design and better value. It’s accurate and reliable out of the crate. Great video.!
1800 bucks and shitty accuracy using a birdcage... nah I'll pass
Like I said, that's the rub. If you have the money, it's a great solution after you get done fixing the issues with the gun. Thankfully Sig sent it to me free of charge. Thank you for the support!
I keep wanting to like the MPX, but every time I start to think that the gun is far enough along in its development that it is safe to buy one another problem surfaces.
The MPX is on Gen 3 at this point and the magazines are on Gen 2, but just a few months ago Sig had to make a rolling change to the gas cylinder so it wouldn’t hydro-lock from a few drops of water. Having to buy an aftermarket barrel to make the gun give useable accuracy with a suppressor is just unforgivable.
The fact that the MPX is a work in progress along with spotty spare parts availability led me to buy Zenith MP5 and MP5k clones back in 2017 and a HK SP5 last year. The lack of a last round bolt hold open is really the only major flaw they have compared to more modern offerings, but the recoil impulse is second to none and spare parts are readily available.
People like to say that the MPX is the MP5 killer and on paper it sure looks like one. Sadly in reality it isn’t even close. Maybe in another 10 years when they hit Gen 5.
Quality is never an accident. It is always the result of intelligent effort.".....It's fun to do the impossible."
Try putting the scorpion parts in the oven, that'll evaporate all the water.
The point of his mentioning is that there is likely an inferior process to protect steel. You can "evaporate" all you want but might be possible issues in the long/short run. Steels even hammer forged one's in firearms often are treated or plated properly for corrosion resistance aka nitrided/zinc/chrome/chromium/phosphate etc.
If all it takes for that particular treatment to be breached in a significant manner is water submersion (Once by mac is my assumption) that in my opinion is an important consideration.
@@koala83r72 yeah it’s not necessarily that it’s hard to get off, though I’m sure that’s annoying, it’s that all it took was a little bit of water to defeat the treatment CZ used.
@@nikik5567 imho it does not disqualify the scorpion, it is a solid firearm/pdw not to mention a good looking one as well
My point is that it is not as simple as drying it out to the OP.... you just don't dry rust out.
I have the mpx k and the carbine version. I have not had the issue you saw with the accuracy. No problem at all hitting 6” steel at 50ft, and at 10yds I can destroy the A on the cardboard targets
Obligatory comment for the algorithm.
Watching this a year later. Price delta is huge. Magazines are $14-25 for the CZ, Sig is tough to find for under $50/Magazine currently. I like the Sig, a lot. But you can find two Scorpions and buy a pile of Magizines for the same loot
Realistically neither gun is good. If one doesn’t work in adverse conditions, and the other needs 600 dollars worth of upgrades on an 1800 dollar gun in order to work correctly they’re both trash.
Agreed. Stribog A3, AK-V, or CMMG Mutant are better
Considering my Evo is just for home defense I’m not too worried about dropping it in mud during a firefight.
@@gerthddyn pretty sure he meant banshee too. The mutant is 7.62x39.
Been watching your videos since 2010! Keep up the good work
Hey my name is Tim, and 7 mins in you will hear about 5 of my sponsors.
So, no comparison of stock, unsuppressed, guns? I’m disappointed in all your tap-dancing around with the comparison between two modified firearms.
I am very happy with my Micro S2, HBI trigger/spring, charging handle, mag release, Wolfman with KeyMicro, 2 point sling and still have money left over to take some lessons and practice at the range as new to firearms vs the Sig. I’m also smart enough to keep dirt and water out of it.
"here is my honest and unbiased review"
'Sig donated me this mpx and even though I had to spend an additional $500 on a $2k gun just to make it hit a group at 15 yards it's hands down the better choice.'
Yup no bias here at all 🤡🤣🤡🤣