I think it would be really cool if there was like a historical reticle list on the website. That a customer could click on and see all scopes that have that reticle. It would make it super easy to shop :)
I love the BDC for hunting. I do the math in the hornady ballistic app, then verify the data by actually shooting. Then i draw a picture of the reticle and write down what exact distance corresponds to each hash mark and put it inside my scope cap so when i flip it open, my info is right there. They arent exact 100 yard increments but that doesnt matter. Range a deer in between 2 of the distances, and kinda guestimating a hold between them has always worked for me. I will put as a caveat, always verify the data from your ballistic app with actual shooting. Ammo companies tend to be optimistic about their velocities and BC numbers.
The velocity issue is typically because despite the fact of them knowing the average user of, say, 5.56 is going to use a 16” barrel (often shorter, rarely longer), maybe up to a 20”. Thing is, they then chronograph the load from a 24” barrel, take that much higher number no one is ever gonna get, and slap it on the box
I'm still stuck on MOA because I was a carpenter and I lived in inches, I can use MILs but it doesn't feel as natural as MOA to my tape measure brain. I'm also old enough to remember when MIL dot was just some secret squirrel military thing and EVERYTHING was MOA even if it had the mil dot reticle. I just learned that a mil was approximately 3.4 inches and rolled with it. My old eyes don't like FFP scopes at lower magnification, but its hard to beat the xmas tree reticles when target shooting, and the SFP BDC reticles are great for hunting or targets within the usable ranges.
I simplify the MOA fractions to decimals like MRAD. 1/4 is .2, 1/2 is .5 and 3/4 is .7. I use strelok as my ballistic solver and that puts the MOA into decimals. I finding the dialing easy, dial to the larger number first and dial the last 1 - 3 clicks. This is how i do it and has worked well for me.
Well, another great podcast. I was also listening to Ep 203-Andy May, all that talk re wind management when hunting deer. Please do a Wind 101 podcast discussing how to study wind, the basics of wind thermals, how terrain affects it, etc. Thanks for all this awesome knowledge folks :)
I have an old Edgar Brothers Super Sniper which is what the SWFA scopes became. It's a fixed power, dialable turrets (moa) with mil dot reticle. Super simple use it for everything from targets to vermin control, predators and hopefully deer. Does the job everywhere, never on the wrong zoom coz it's fixed, I can hold in mils and if someone says something in moa I can dial it, my ballistic calc is setup so that it tells me clicks in MOA and sub-tensions in MILS, never had to do any mental arithmetic whilst using it. In many ways it's a totally outdated scope, but it's quality Japanese glass, built like a tank, probably 25-30 years old and still works every time I use it.
Thanks guys, i was dead set on a 3 -18 razor gen 2 for my 308 bergara hmr and now i see the 4.5 - 22 razor hd lht which has caught my attention. Back to the drawing board, lol.
I was in the Army. Graduated 2 different Sniper courses. Part of our training is that we are cross trained as forward observers to call for, and adjust artillery. When giving direction to targets we use degrees. When adjusting artillery we use mills. It is helpful to have a mill scale in a scope for this reason. An MOA reticle would be useless for this. My brain works in 10's easier than 1/4. I can use either for shooting. But given a choice I prefer mill/mill scope. Mill reticle with mill adjustments.
You guys should do what nikon used to do is they had an app that you selected your scope and it's redical then would select your ammo load and calculate what the bdc line would be for that round in yards
This video is very helpful to me since I just bought a Ruger SFAR was having a hard time to decide (many choices) of what to put on until this video. Thanks again
My two HST’s and two Strike Eagle’s, all in Mil, have changed my approach to shooting and hunting. The reticle makes a big difference even to a predominantly hunt focused shooter. I can take the time as I sit and range, measure and prep shots before they happen and make it muscle memory rather than chance in the moment.
Absolutely the best information I’ve learned about my scope for hunting applications. Learned this and spending time to validate my rifle to the hash marks will definitely increase my already confident shooting skills Thanks again guys!!!
For most of my hunting all I need is a single crosshairs, no drop down. Where I hunt here in N. E. Georgia 300 yards will be an extremely long shot. I zero my 308 at 200 and it’s perfect for my 0-300 yards
Glad to see Nick back! I hope you could make a podcast with Nick talking about his Book: "The Precision Marksman: Foundations and Applications" Thank you for this interesting podcast.
Ive got 1-6 BDC illuminated dot on my 350 Legend and 458 SOCOM. On the Legend, center crosshair is max point blank to 215yds. With Subsonic, one dot down is point blank to 85yds. On the 458 SOCOM, center is max point blank 150yds. With subsonic, one dot down is point blank to 75yds. Those of course are perfect for my style and my hunting conditions.
I love the bdc for my hunting rifles. But PLEASE make a red dot BDC reticle. a simple illuminated red dot with the bdc is would be amazing and i dont understand why more companies dont make this. make the VIPER HS 2.5-10 with a red dot added to the BDC!
IMO some of the most fun shooting I've ever had has been calcing. range, tgt size and bullet drop using multistadia SFP reticles (and iron sights...and archery sight pins). The math is simple--just the subtension formula ("mil"-ranging formula) with different variables, and the fact that subtension (reticle measurement) is inversely proportional to magnification. I can't believe what we have been able to accomplish with these simple math concepts.
I tend to pick the redical that'll work for me and then look at the optics that are available. For a lot of folks have been shooting rifles with Scopes that are their fathers or grandfathers. So when they go to buy scoops they want to buy some optics that are similar for ease of use.
My preference is hard to find. I like a circle with a crosshair in the middle. Leuplod has a hog hunter and the old redfield accurange. Super quick acquisition and somehow I’m more accurate while hunting.
As i aged and lost the ability to shoot consistently with irons…i have scopes or red dots on almost all my guns. Only ones that dont have fiber optics irons which i can see. Or a peep sight . All of my Red dots are vortex…strikefires, sparcs, vipers, …and last year I bought 2 LPVO Crossfires…with illuminated red dot in the reticle…and its a GAME CHANGER. I took a Doe with my 30-30 at 165 yds in a dark woods. And a 9 pt buck at 150 yds in low light just after legal shoot time…that red dot saved me…i couldnt have seen the crosshairs at that light. Im actually looking to start replacing some other scopes I own to ones with an illuminated dot.
I'd love to see a lightweight fixed power BDC scope for hunting. Maybe a 4x or a 6x. Enough magnification for 300-400 yard shots on large game, and you wouldn't have to worry about whether the zoom level is correct for your BDC. And with fewer moving parts it should be dead reliable and lighter weight than the lightest optics currently in the Vortex catalog.
@@Magnum-284 Yes. Would be nice to also have a fairly useable reticle at the 2x. Also elevation and windage turrets exposed and lockable like the other Razors
There are a ton of different reticle s available. And most people will gravitate to the kind of reticle they were first taught to use. It is expensive and time consuming to try out different reticle s. Also, different reticle s will use different techniques for drop and wind compensation. Generally, if you don't shoot a Lot: keep it simple. Compare the NightForce NP-2DD, to a Vortex Horus Tremors 3. I have both, and they are hugely different. But used for different situations.
I think the BDC reticle is the most practical for almost every average hunting application. If you practice often you will use the hashmarks/subtensions along with bracketing, which will double the accuracy and decrease yoir groups at various ranges. You will have twice as many subtensions....half of them will be in your head.
52:55 I have very much been leaning in this sort of direction for myself as I was recently shopping for a scope upgrade, and considering the complex Reticle variants out there, contemplating what my preference would be, to provide more function than the simplest Reticle with 5 range drop holdovers, Without getting to the most complex Reticles. I feel like something like this XLR - 2 MRAD Reticle on screen, seems to offer subtlety when you want to see past the data, But still. Offer more data inside the Reticle.
MSR2 reticle, 0.1 MRAD clicks, FFP. And would never take any of the other options. I see something good in some others, but then also clear disadvantages. MSR2 just works close and far and has great mrad measuring scales. Some people are missing a super thick crosshairs for minimum magnification, me not. It's always crystal clear where the center is, with or without illuminated center. Needs of course a dope card telling the distance and clicks. And then either holding or clicking for wind etc.
I love the BDC, for its simplicity, always knowing I have the option to use Mil corrections for greater ranges. Here in Texas, a simple V-plex is ALL you need. I think alot of hunters think that ranges out to 300 yards which is rare here, except maybe in South or West Texas, you have to have an MRad or more complex scope to account for drop. Not knowing that few calibers have that much drop at 300 yards. Except maybe the .308 or .30-06, which are truly overkill for any game you are going to hunt here. Some people just think you need a sledgehammer to drive a nail…. I never use my mil corrections while shooting my .22-250 out to ranges of 200 yards and below. I just point and shoot, maybe placing my center dot a little high in the vital zone to compensate for the slight drop of that round at that distance. I’ve never not dropped game doing that. You DON’T need an FFP MOA type scope for moderate distances. Just dial in your zero and learn how to use “Kentucky Windage”. You can also set your dope at a maximal elevation for that caliber you’re using, and NEVER have to mess with it after that. Especially if you’re engaging targets from 200 yards and closer, your drop will be so negligible, your elevation corrections don’t really come into play for just about every caliber out there. Just do some research homework and experiment at the range. It’s a simple thing that needn’t be complicated.
Watching this i was hoping that they would hold up the scope they are talking about with the retical in the upper right of the screen going over the features of the scopes ! Maybe next time they will do that with just first focal plane scopes and then in the next they will do 2nd focal plane scopes?
also on a sfp you can still use the secondary marks as long as you shoot at the same magnification you set them to. for example i have a 4-12x but i mostly shoot at 5x I can set the marks for 5x and as long as I know 5x is what those marks are set for i should be good. of course this is only for personal manual settings based on how my bullets drop and not by a chart or anything. let’s say i sight in at 50 yards for my main. i know at 5x 75 yards i meed to go down one mark and at 85 yards i have to go down to the next mark.
I just mounted a Bushnell AR optics 4.5-18 X 40mm drop zone 223 on my number 4 mark 1/3 Lee Enfield FTR 1953 useing 180 grain Winchester 303 british I just have to wait till I can get over to my brothers property we have a shooting range 1000 yards long
MOA is way easier to use if you understand simple math. If you have vision problems second focal plane is better because you have to be able to see the reticle. I’ve got friends that use second focal plane to shoot long range over 2000 yards. Zero at 100 and do your range card out to 1000 or beyond that’s why you have the numbers on the turrets.
With FFP MRAD: m * m = mm, mm / m = m, mm / m = m. Could it get more simple than that? or writing it open: m * mrad = mm, mm / mrad = m, mm / m = mrad. m = meters to target, mm = target in mm, mrad = mrad:s on any magnification of the FFP.
Would really love some more Caliber talks especially ones longer than 10 minutes because you're talking about the 7.62x39 and similar calibers like 7.62x40 an 220 Russian or maybe 7.62x54r 5.54x39
I got rid of my BDC reticle optics. There are simply too many variables in dealing with different bullet weights and even calibers. The subtension values are not uniform which makes precision difficult at long range. Whether I'm dialing or holding over or a combination I want a precise value. A BDC simply doesn't provide that. I also prefer to have a paralax adjustment as well. The BDCs lack that as well. For close and fast I've gone to the Spitfire 1x prism. It's good 300 and in and very fast to aquire the target.
The point about a FFP reticle becoming so thin at the lowest magnification leads me to a question. Back when Neanderthals still roamed the Earth, a 3x zoom was the best you could get. 3-9x was very popular. A FFP reticle would only change by a factor of 3. However, now we see 6x, 8x and even 10x zoom factors. So a 2.5-10x or 3-12x FFP reticle appears manageable. Doesn’t a 1-10x FFP reticle become relatively impractical? I know marketing drives the 1-8x and 1-10x LVPO market; however, I’d much prefer a lighter, more robust optic with “better” glass at 3-12x magnification and a first focal plane reticle that I can actually see at 3x.
50:15 Even in such scenario, When you know the size of the target, in inches. I suspect it's easier to convert target size, from inches to say, Centimeters. Ie. Basically 1 inch = 2.54 centimeters So rounded off 2 inches = ~ 5 cm. 4 inches = ~ 10 cm 6 inches = ~ 15 cm 12 inches =30 cm
I think without a dought that a ajustible brightness mil dot with a duplex with a thin lined middle to med thick crosshairs with the smallest lite dot possible so when at a high mag the dot doesnt cover what your shooting at.Burris euro diamond 3×12×56mm is my choice mostly because of the dot at the time was the smallest offered in a higher end scope.early an late times of the day the lite dot is a big advanage of knowing your on target even if all your seeing is a dark image of your target
What magnification scope do I need to actually see holes on paper at 200 yards ,reason being for 556 and of course use the same name all the time. You’ll be under an inch from 25 yards to a little over 300 yards. This is all I need to point and shoot point of aim and point of impact. That’s all I want plain simple. I’m not asking for a cheap scope. I’m not asking for the most expensive one just the right one for this simple task. Will be using on 16” desert TEC bull pup
The Vortex guys: "It's dealing with quarters and common denominators and.....If somebody goes come up 3 and a half MOA I'm like OK 3 times 4 is 12...." Literally anyone who plays a musical instrument: "1-2-3-1,1-2-3-2, 1-2-3-3, and two makes a half." But yes just moving the decimal point is easier. I prefer MOA because the dots are 4 clicks apart, and I can dial between dots easily. Also I'm a fossil and everything I ever shot was MOA, so that's what I buy unless what I want is only in MRAD :)
Honestly Mil is just faster and the scary formula part's of mrad ( unless you train to range from the reticle ) with modern solvers isn't really a thing. However, I will say you can memorize MOA out to a 1000 and work almost as fast. Cheers great video.
Guys, I love your PodCast! My first Optic is an Strike Eagle 1-8 FFP for my Ar15. I have a question... is there any negatives (except for costs) if youimplement some features in FFP and some on SFP? This way you could have the benefits of both! (Low light visibility and adaptiveness with different zooms)
Not sure if that would be possible as the reticle has to be etched in a FFP so it would grow and shrink no matter what. Will have to run it by the engineers to confirm.
@@VortexNation yes, you would have 2 reticles in one optic...one between the turrets with the things you want to be in FFP and a second reticle on the eye piece for the SFP features... I am no optics engineer, just from what I learned through your PodCast! By the way, if Jim gets to read this: I am an Engineer and testdriver for super sportcars 😊 (I assume he would like this)
I only really shoot from 25 yrds to 200 yrds. I like a scope redical like this T simple t shape. i zero for 75. i dont like a scope thats all cluttered up with lines and dots. just a simple scope. a 2.5x8-40 is good. or a fixed power. i really only zoom to 4 most of the time. and long body scope not a fan of the short stubby ones. 30mm is nice. but yes that simple T is nice ( old school german style ? )
I was looking through a sportsman guide catalog once and I found a scope and it was not cheap but it had your crosshairs then it had different sized circles up and down the vertical line. The article said once zeroed at 100 yd you would then find what circle your target fit inside and that would be your hold. I cannot remember the brand or the type of reticle that is and I have been searching for it ever since. Does anybody have any idea, thank you.
"M-o-o-n...that spells...' That was from the movie "The Stand" Tom Cullen kept saying it...but can't spell. So he would out in any random word anytime he said it...which was alot.
BDC are a mixed bag. They're bad when the change between two hashes or marks put you off of whatever accuracy you need for your target. The farther away you are the less relevant the BDC becomes.
No real difference in use, it’s just whatever a person is familiar with is the better option. For many it makes no difference as they zero and then shoot point blank ranges anyway. One caveat is MOA is actually a finer adjustment so for those looking for more precise adjustments moa is the better option.
I totally agree. Yes, MRAD is better when you are doing math with it (especially in metric), but that's not much relevant for actual shooting (at least not in the age of affordable laser rangefinders). So pick your poison and be happy!
49:45 Can I agree with y'all, and point out, If it's helpful for anyone. Similarly to how 1.047 inches per 100yards...even out to 1k yards, rounded down its only .47 inches rounded off. Half an inch, either way, at 1000 yards? Just not generally significant loss in your accuracy right? Not compared to wind or other variables? Similarly. 100 yards is soooo very close to 100 meters. 1 meter is only, like... 3 ish inches longer than 1 yard? 39.37 inches = 1 meter... So basically, 1 yard +3 and 1/3 inches... = 1meter. Sure you can remember that on your cheat sheet, but in a quick estimation, 100 meters vs yards ... 1000 meters vs yards... How far off would your range estimate be, if you just treat 100 meters, as basically 110 yards.
Of course the current fad because of shooting comps is that FFP is the only way to fly in many peoples minds. But the reality is depending on what you use your rifle/scope for that is always not the case. Shooting at set distance targets say punching paper off of a bench even in competition there is a reason most benchrest shooters are using high magnification SFP scopes and many are using 1/8" adjustment MOA for the much finer adjustment range even more so in .22 rimfire comps where the targets bullseye is very, very small and you shoot 1 shot at each target for score. Also how many people are generally using holdovers when again users keep demanding bigger and bigger scope tubes for even more adjustment range is dialing the range and of course are very demanding on what they want for turrets and accurate tracking where they are dialing for distance and using the reticles center crosshair and not using a holdover point at all. Sure guys shooting timed competition events may at times be using holdovers just for the time saving aspect and then FFP regardless of magnification setting is much more important. But again the use scenario does play a big part. Personally I like the less busier SFP reticles like the Vortex EBR4, but again it suites my old eyes and the type of shooting I will be doing.
Guys Guys, whew..do you have a pod cast or training that just kind of starts at the beginning? Yes I liked midwest. understood 1st 2nd focal plane but all the numbers and descriptions without saying what they mean gives me zero understanding of how to use it. Just saying might use it for long range or some windage drop or hold over and I understand what that means but what is the value of the ticks how do you get the values for what power on the scope? I know iron sites cross hairs and cause and effect. BDC? what is that I am just trying to better use the equipment and make a choice but you are not explaining what the stuff is...PRS ? whats that HSR ? whats that?
@vortexnation On the topic of one gun for everything what scope would y’all pick? Assuming your one rifle and cartridge is for hunting out west and in the south east, as well as for competition or tactical use. What would this look like for each of you guys, the LHT? How else would you set this rifle up?
48:58 "1/10 of a mill= 1cm@100M" ¿1Mrad=1mm(0.1cm it was not clear how many places to move the decimal) @100M ? ¿Is this right? ~1\3" = ~ 1cm at 100m (8.382mm actually ) (25.4mm=1") making the margin at 1090yd (1000M) 17.2mm or .68" . So mils is less than 1 click less precise than a moa scope rounded to 1"/100yd at 1000
When talking about the 65 creed more hack Find the Distance of target −2. Then dial that in. Does that hack work for m.o.a or mill Because the two forty three is almost identical out to 8 hundred yards So that little lifehack might be the same. For the 243 . Depending on m o a or. mills damn I was that guy 😂 sorry I jumped the gun on that one😂
... It wouldn't be perfect. But. If you are stuck in inches and yards in your mind... In your mental range estimates... Just so much more familiar with inches feet and yards...
If you half the magnification on a sfp scope does the moa double. For instance, if the distance is 10 moa at 20 power. Is it 20 moa at 10 power? I've read that it does but haven't tested it.
Yes...mostly. Assuming the power ring is correctly cald. But it's always been for practical applications for me. It's an inversely proportional equation.
Hey @VortexNation I have the Crossfire II 6-24x50 BDC I'm having a weird thing with the focus ring, when I set it up there is play and it rocks side to side with tons of in n out play in the threads which shows the reticle move when it moves, which I'm 100% sure it moves during recoil should I be calling u guys? I haven't shot it since I noticed the movement. also if there is an issue do you guys offer an upgrade program where I pay the difference on the ffp diamondback 6-24? Scope is less than 6 months old since purchase at turners
BDC sounds like a good idea, until you get the understanding that it is practically never showing correctly (other than in military with standardized one rifle model and one cartridge). Cartridge, load, primer, bullet, rifle, barrel length, rifling twist, temperature, all affect the ballistics. Of course if someone looking for a 0m-200m pretty good quick rough corrections, then possibly great. But like mentioned before, if you want to try a better load, you'll go off the BDC reticle fast. Typically you see people making their own "corrections" to BDC. then 200m line becomes 238m line, 300m becomes 355m or something like that. Seems extra unwanted nuisance and ruining the whole idea.
The BDC is not a good reticle. I own 3 and everyone that shoots them dislikes them. Please offer viper HSLR with 1 MOA marks for windage and drop. BDC reticles are for ignorant people. Is the viper HSLR for ignorant people?
I think it would be really cool if there was like a historical reticle list on the website. That a customer could click on and see all scopes that have that reticle. It would make it super easy to shop :)
This is a great idea. I'm constantly having multiple TABS open to just compare each reticle side by side.
Now if we could just get the scope company’s thinking in that direction🤔😳
Leupold does this
@@justice1327Thems fighten words! 😉
It's called competition
I love the BDC for hunting. I do the math in the hornady ballistic app, then verify the data by actually shooting. Then i draw a picture of the reticle and write down what exact distance corresponds to each hash mark and put it inside my scope cap so when i flip it open, my info is right there. They arent exact 100 yard increments but that doesnt matter. Range a deer in between 2 of the distances, and kinda guestimating a hold between them has always worked for me.
I will put as a caveat, always verify the data from your ballistic app with actual shooting. Ammo companies tend to be optimistic about their velocities and BC numbers.
The velocity issue is typically because despite the fact of them knowing the average user of, say, 5.56 is going to use a 16” barrel (often shorter, rarely longer), maybe up to a 20”. Thing is, they then chronograph the load from a 24” barrel, take that much higher number no one is ever gonna get, and slap it on the box
We need daily Vortex podcast. My drive to work needs it.
I'm still stuck on MOA because I was a carpenter and I lived in inches, I can use MILs but it doesn't feel as natural as MOA to my tape measure brain. I'm also old enough to remember when MIL dot was just some secret squirrel military thing and EVERYTHING was MOA even if it had the mil dot reticle. I just learned that a mil was approximately 3.4 inches and rolled with it. My old eyes don't like FFP scopes at lower magnification, but its hard to beat the xmas tree reticles when target shooting, and the SFP BDC reticles are great for hunting or targets within the usable ranges.
Very informative podcast that covers a lot of ground. This is too much to adsorb in one sitting but the exposure to dig deeper is handed to you.
👏👏👏👏
I have had to listen to several of these podcasts multiple times while taking notes, there is so much to learn.
I simplify the MOA fractions to decimals like MRAD. 1/4 is .2, 1/2 is .5 and 3/4 is .7. I use strelok as my ballistic solver and that puts the MOA into decimals. I finding the dialing easy, dial to the larger number first and dial the last 1 - 3 clicks. This is how i do it and has worked well for me.
Well, another great podcast. I was also listening to Ep 203-Andy May, all that talk re wind management when hunting deer. Please do a Wind 101 podcast discussing how to study wind, the basics of wind thermals, how terrain affects it, etc. Thanks for all this awesome knowledge folks :)
I have an old Edgar Brothers Super Sniper which is what the SWFA scopes became.
It's a fixed power, dialable turrets (moa) with mil dot reticle. Super simple use it for everything from targets to vermin control, predators and hopefully deer.
Does the job everywhere, never on the wrong zoom coz it's fixed, I can hold in mils and if someone says something in moa I can dial it, my ballistic calc is setup so that it tells me clicks in MOA and sub-tensions in MILS, never had to do any mental arithmetic whilst using it.
In many ways it's a totally outdated scope, but it's quality Japanese glass, built like a tank, probably 25-30 years old and still works every time I use it.
Thanks guys, i was dead set on a 3 -18 razor gen 2 for my 308 bergara hmr and now i see the 4.5 - 22 razor hd lht which has caught my attention. Back to the drawing board, lol.
I would love to see a thin cross hair varmint reticle make the viper line up. But on a real note thanks for pumping out some great conversations
I was in the Army. Graduated 2 different Sniper courses. Part of our training is that we are cross trained as forward observers to call for, and adjust artillery. When giving direction to targets we use degrees. When adjusting artillery we use mills. It is helpful to have a mill scale in a scope for this reason. An MOA reticle would be useless for this. My brain works in 10's easier than 1/4. I can use either for shooting. But given a choice I prefer mill/mill scope. Mill reticle with mill adjustments.
It is really amazing how versatile a regular V-plex style crosshair is, for the normal max 300meter hunter.
I love the BDC reticle for hunting. Very simple and surprisingly accurate.
You guys should do what nikon used to do is they had an app that you selected your scope and it's redical then would select your ammo load and calculate what the bdc line would be for that round in yards
This video is very helpful to me since I just bought a Ruger SFAR was having a hard time to decide (many choices) of what to put on until this video. Thanks again
My two HST’s and two Strike Eagle’s, all in Mil, have changed my approach to shooting and hunting. The reticle makes a big difference even to a predominantly hunt focused shooter. I can take the time as I sit and range, measure and prep shots before they happen and make it muscle memory rather than chance in the moment.
Absolutely the best information I’ve learned about my scope for hunting applications. Learned this and spending time to validate my rifle to the hash marks will definitely increase my already confident shooting skills Thanks again guys!!!
Ron Spomer would be a great guess speaker.
For most of my hunting all I need is a single crosshairs, no drop down. Where I hunt here in N. E. Georgia 300 yards will be an extremely long shot. I zero my 308 at 200 and it’s perfect for my 0-300 yards
Glad to see Nick back!
I hope you could make a podcast with Nick talking about his Book: "The Precision Marksman: Foundations and Applications"
Thank you for this interesting podcast.
Thanks for the plug! I really appreciate it. 😁
Ive got 1-6 BDC illuminated dot on my 350 Legend and 458 SOCOM. On the Legend, center crosshair is max point blank to 215yds. With Subsonic, one dot down is point blank to 85yds. On the 458 SOCOM, center is max point blank 150yds. With subsonic, one dot down is point blank to 75yds. Those of course are perfect for my style and my hunting conditions.
Refreshing. Great discussion!
I love the bdc for my hunting rifles. But PLEASE make a red dot BDC reticle. a simple illuminated red dot with the bdc is would be amazing and i dont understand why more companies dont make this. make the VIPER HS 2.5-10 with a red dot added to the BDC!
Agreed
Great chat, learned a lot out BDC reticle and i would have been pissed to buy it, expect one thing, and then use it.
Thanks guys, learned a ton.
IMO some of the most fun shooting I've ever had has been calcing. range, tgt size and bullet drop using multistadia SFP reticles (and iron sights...and archery sight pins). The math is simple--just the subtension formula ("mil"-ranging formula) with different variables, and the fact that subtension (reticle measurement) is inversely proportional to magnification. I can't believe what we have been able to accomplish with these simple math concepts.
I love the Christmas tree reticle like in the vortex strike eagle
I tend to pick the redical that'll work for me and then look at the optics that are available. For a lot of folks have been shooting rifles with Scopes that are their fathers or grandfathers. So when they go to buy scoops they want to buy some optics that are similar for ease of use.
Old habits die hard.
EBR 7c is awesome for western hunting 😊
My preference is hard to find. I like a circle with a crosshair in the middle. Leuplod has a hog hunter and the old redfield accurange. Super quick acquisition and somehow I’m more accurate while hunting.
As i aged and lost the ability to shoot consistently with irons…i have scopes or red dots on almost all my guns. Only ones that dont have fiber optics irons which i can see. Or a peep sight . All of my Red dots are vortex…strikefires, sparcs, vipers, …and last year I bought 2 LPVO Crossfires…with illuminated red dot in the reticle…and its a GAME CHANGER. I took a Doe with my 30-30 at 165 yds in a dark woods. And a 9 pt buck at 150 yds in low light just after legal shoot time…that red dot saved me…i couldnt have seen the crosshairs at that light. Im actually looking to start replacing some other scopes I own to ones with an illuminated dot.
I'd love to see a lightweight fixed power BDC scope for hunting. Maybe a 4x or a 6x. Enough magnification for 300-400 yard shots on large game, and you wouldn't have to worry about whether the zoom level is correct for your BDC. And with fewer moving parts it should be dead reliable and lighter weight than the lightest optics currently in the Vortex catalog.
"Moon spells money" from Steven King's, That Stand.
It would be nice to see a Razor in 2-14x44. Could use a DMR style optic in the Razor line up.
Agreed. Would like to see it for a DMR 556. Full featured Razor, but doesn't have to be huge. Could even be 2-12x42 on a 30mm tube
@@Magnum-284 Yes. Would be nice to also have a fairly useable reticle at the 2x. Also elevation and windage turrets exposed and lockable like the other Razors
I have two types of reticles, fire-dot duplex for hunting, no shots past 150 yards where I hunt. Then I have the works on my custom .22 rig.
I would love to see the next update on the Vortex Venom with the old school illuminated MIL-DOT bubble dot reticle.
There are a ton of different reticle s available. And most people will gravitate to the kind of reticle they were first taught to use. It is expensive and time consuming to try out different reticle s. Also, different reticle s will use different techniques for drop and wind compensation. Generally, if you don't shoot a Lot: keep it simple. Compare the NightForce NP-2DD, to a Vortex Horus Tremors 3. I have both, and they are hugely different. But used for different situations.
V-plex is hands down the best for hunting. We need more V-plex please. Seems like you all have stopped making them.
I think the BDC reticle is the most practical for almost every average hunting application. If you practice often you will use the hashmarks/subtensions along with bracketing, which will double the accuracy and decrease yoir groups at various ranges. You will have twice as many subtensions....half of them will be in your head.
Shout-out to the Vortex Diamondback HPs!! Love mine
52:55
I have very much been leaning in this sort of direction for myself as I was recently shopping for a scope upgrade, and considering the complex Reticle variants out there, contemplating what my preference would be, to provide more function than the simplest Reticle with 5 range drop holdovers,
Without getting to the most complex Reticles.
I feel like something like this XLR - 2 MRAD Reticle on screen, seems to offer subtlety when you want to see past the data,
But still. Offer more data inside the Reticle.
MSR2 reticle, 0.1 MRAD clicks, FFP. And would never take any of the other options. I see something good in some others, but then also clear disadvantages. MSR2 just works close and far and has great mrad measuring scales. Some people are missing a super thick crosshairs for minimum magnification, me not. It's always crystal clear where the center is, with or without illuminated center. Needs of course a dope card telling the distance and clicks. And then either holding or clicking for wind etc.
I love the BDC, for its simplicity, always knowing I have the option to use Mil corrections for greater ranges. Here in Texas, a simple V-plex is ALL you need. I think alot of hunters think that ranges out to 300 yards which is rare here, except maybe in South or West Texas, you have to have an MRad or more complex scope to account for drop. Not knowing that few calibers have that much drop at 300 yards. Except maybe the .308 or .30-06, which are truly overkill for any game you are going to hunt here. Some people just think you need a sledgehammer to drive a nail….
I never use my mil corrections while shooting my .22-250 out to ranges of 200 yards and below. I just point and shoot, maybe placing my center dot a little high in the vital zone to compensate for the slight drop of that round at that distance. I’ve never not dropped game doing that. You DON’T need an FFP MOA type scope for moderate distances. Just dial in your zero and learn how to use “Kentucky Windage”. You can also set your dope at a maximal elevation for that caliber you’re using, and NEVER have to mess with it after that. Especially if you’re engaging targets from 200 yards and closer, your drop will be so negligible, your elevation corrections don’t really come into play for just about every caliber out there. Just do some research homework and experiment at the range. It’s a simple thing that needn’t be complicated.
Watching this i was hoping that they would hold up the scope they are talking about with the retical in the upper right of the screen going over the features of the scopes ! Maybe next time they will do that with just first focal plane scopes and then in the next they will do 2nd focal plane scopes?
also on a sfp you can still use the secondary marks as long as you shoot at the same magnification you set them to. for example i have a 4-12x but i mostly shoot at 5x I can set the marks for 5x and as long as I know 5x is what those marks are set for i should be good. of course this is only for personal manual settings based on how my bullets drop and not by a chart or anything. let’s say i sight in at 50 yards for my main. i know at 5x 75 yards i meed to go down one mark and at 85 yards i have to go down to the next mark.
I just mounted a Bushnell AR optics 4.5-18 X 40mm drop zone 223 on my number 4 mark 1/3 Lee Enfield FTR 1953 useing 180 grain Winchester 303 british I just have to wait till I can get over to my brothers property we have a shooting range 1000 yards long
I have been useing decimal all my life and 1.7 mil is 1.75 moa and hold the top side of the retical cross for the same exact spot.
Thank you 😊
You're welcome! 🤜🤛
M-O-O-N and that spells moon was a phrase used by the character Tom Cullen in Stephen King's book The Stand. Also used in the TV mini-series.
MOA is way easier to use if you understand simple math. If you have vision problems second focal plane is better because you have to be able to see the reticle. I’ve got friends that use second focal plane to shoot long range over 2000 yards. Zero at 100 and do your range card out to 1000 or beyond that’s why you have the numbers on the turrets.
With FFP MRAD: m * m = mm, mm / m = m, mm / m = m. Could it get more simple than that?
or writing it open: m * mrad = mm, mm / mrad = m, mm / m = mrad. m = meters to target, mm = target in mm, mrad = mrad:s on any magnification of the FFP.
Would really love some more Caliber talks especially ones longer than 10 minutes because you're talking about the 7.62x39 and similar calibers like 7.62x40 an 220 Russian or maybe 7.62x54r 5.54x39
I got rid of my BDC reticle optics. There are simply too many variables in dealing with different bullet weights and even calibers. The subtension values are not uniform which makes precision difficult at long range. Whether I'm dialing or holding over or a combination I want a precise value. A BDC simply doesn't provide that. I also prefer to have a paralax adjustment as well. The BDCs lack that as well. For close and fast I've gone to the Spitfire 1x prism. It's good 300 and in and very fast to aquire the target.
The point about a FFP reticle becoming so thin at the lowest magnification leads me to a question. Back when Neanderthals still roamed the Earth, a 3x zoom was the best you could get. 3-9x was very popular. A FFP reticle would only change by a factor of 3. However, now we see 6x, 8x and even 10x zoom factors.
So a 2.5-10x or 3-12x FFP reticle appears manageable. Doesn’t a 1-10x FFP reticle become relatively impractical?
I know marketing drives the 1-8x and 1-10x LVPO market; however, I’d much prefer a lighter, more robust optic with “better” glass at 3-12x magnification and a first focal plane reticle that I can actually see at 3x.
50:15
Even in such scenario,
When you know the size of the target, in inches.
I suspect it's easier to convert target size, from inches to say, Centimeters.
Ie. Basically 1 inch = 2.54 centimeters
So rounded off
2 inches = ~ 5 cm.
4 inches = ~ 10 cm
6 inches = ~ 15 cm
12 inches =30 cm
You guys should talk about the diamondback HPs
Busting algorithms with four words
Went from basic hunting scopes to the really expensive scopes which you have to use an shooting calculator to use
This was awesome. M o o n that spells moon is from the stand by Steven king
I think without a dought that a ajustible brightness mil dot with a duplex with a thin lined middle to med thick crosshairs with the smallest lite dot possible so when at a high mag the dot doesnt cover what your shooting at.Burris euro diamond 3×12×56mm is my choice mostly because of the dot at the time was the smallest offered in a higher end scope.early an late times of the day the lite dot is a big advanage of knowing your on target even if all your seeing is a dark image of your target
What magnification scope do I need to actually see holes on paper at 200 yards ,reason being for 556 and of course use the same name all the time. You’ll be under an inch from 25 yards to a little over 300 yards. This is all I need to point and shoot point of aim and point of impact. That’s all I want plain simple. I’m not asking for a cheap scope. I’m not asking for the most expensive one just the right one for this simple task.
Will be using on 16” desert TEC bull pup
The Vortex guys: "It's dealing with quarters and common denominators and.....If somebody goes come up 3 and a half MOA I'm like OK 3 times 4 is 12...."
Literally anyone who plays a musical instrument: "1-2-3-1,1-2-3-2, 1-2-3-3, and two makes a half."
But yes just moving the decimal point is easier. I prefer MOA because the dots are 4 clicks apart, and I can dial between dots easily.
Also I'm a fossil and everything I ever shot was MOA, so that's what I buy unless what I want is only in MRAD :)
i like v plex with the illuminated red dot
Honestly Mil is just faster and the scary formula part's of mrad ( unless you train to range from the reticle ) with modern solvers isn't really a thing. However, I will say you can memorize MOA out to a 1000 and work almost as fast. Cheers great video.
M-O-O-N, that spells XXXX is from "The Stand".
Guys, I love your PodCast! My first Optic is an Strike Eagle 1-8 FFP for my Ar15.
I have a question... is there any negatives (except for costs) if youimplement some features in FFP and some on SFP? This way you could have the benefits of both! (Low light visibility and adaptiveness with different zooms)
Like FFP and SFP in the same scope???
@@VortexNation exactly...some features in FFP (scales) and some in SFP (like the main lines)
Not sure if that would be possible as the reticle has to be etched in a FFP so it would grow and shrink no matter what. Will have to run it by the engineers to confirm.
@@VortexNation yes, you would have 2 reticles in one optic...one between the turrets with the things you want to be in FFP and a second reticle on the eye piece for the SFP features... I am no optics engineer, just from what I learned through your PodCast!
By the way, if Jim gets to read this: I am an Engineer and testdriver for super sportcars 😊 (I assume he would like this)
I only really shoot from 25 yrds to 200 yrds. I like a scope redical like this T simple t shape. i zero for 75. i dont like a scope thats all cluttered up with lines and dots. just a simple scope. a 2.5x8-40 is good. or a fixed power. i really only zoom to 4 most of the time. and long body scope not a fan of the short stubby ones. 30mm is nice. but yes that simple T is nice ( old school german style ? )
Question:
Would a shooter need a first focal plane scope if they were only shooting 91 meters and under?
I was looking through a sportsman guide catalog once and I found a scope and it was not cheap but it had your crosshairs then it had different sized circles up and down the vertical line. The article said once zeroed at 100 yd you would then find what circle your target fit inside and that would be your hold. I cannot remember the brand or the type of reticle that is and I have been searching for it ever since. Does anybody have any idea, thank you.
Shepherd Auto Ranging Reticle for magnum velocity and Non Magnum calibers
Shoot once onna Stable Platform. Sim on that Shot and Move the Reticle to Center on that Hole Shazam! Sighted In
"M-o-o-n...that spells...'
That was from the movie "The Stand"
Tom Cullen kept saying it...but can't spell. So he would out in any random word anytime he said it...which was alot.
BDC are a mixed bag. They're bad when the change between two hashes or marks put you off of whatever accuracy you need for your target. The farther away you are the less relevant the BDC becomes.
There are good applications for both Mrad and MOA. I don't think one is better than the other.
No real difference in use, it’s just whatever a person is familiar with is the better option. For many it makes no difference as they zero and then shoot point blank ranges anyway.
One caveat is MOA is actually a finer adjustment so for those looking for more precise adjustments moa is the better option.
@@jaydunbar7538 I agree. That’s why MOA scopes are on all of my ELR rifles.
I totally agree. Yes, MRAD is better when you are doing math with it (especially in metric), but that's not much relevant for actual shooting (at least not in the age of affordable laser rangefinders). So pick your poison and be happy!
MOON reference is from Stephen King's The Stand. Book and TV mini series
L o l. I'm sure you guys caused a lot of headaches around the world😅. But it's super simple
Why don’t you think of the 1/4 as .25? Makes it easier to dial at least 🤷🏼♂️
Why isn’t the LHT available in a simple reticle? The busy reticle is why I went with a competitors optic unfortunately.
The movie is The Stand, based on the book by Steven King.
49:45
Can I agree with y'all, and point out,
If it's helpful for anyone.
Similarly to how 1.047 inches per 100yards...even out to 1k yards, rounded down its only .47 inches rounded off.
Half an inch, either way, at 1000 yards?
Just not generally significant loss in your accuracy right?
Not compared to wind or other variables?
Similarly.
100 yards is soooo very close to 100 meters.
1 meter is only, like... 3 ish inches longer than 1 yard?
39.37 inches = 1 meter...
So basically, 1 yard +3 and 1/3 inches... = 1meter.
Sure you can remember that on your cheat sheet, but in a quick estimation,
100 meters vs yards ...
1000 meters vs yards...
How far off would your range estimate be, if you just treat 100 meters, as basically 110 yards.
I’m sure I missed it on some video but what’s the grocery list in the background all about lol?
the movie (or book) is "The Stand" by Stephen King.
Buf if only vortex offers more than 1 reticle on the same scope of same metric .....
Thank goodness Mark didnt need to print out their entire catalogue because someone already had.
I bet he still printed out... lol. Mark just loves killin trees.😂
Luckily trees are a renewable resource.
Do you guys know where I can get a sunshade to fit the vortex 4-16x42 eagle scope?
Of course the current fad because of shooting comps is that FFP is the only way to fly in many peoples minds.
But the reality is depending on what you use your rifle/scope for that is always not the case.
Shooting at set distance targets say punching paper off of a bench even in competition there is a reason most benchrest shooters are using high magnification SFP scopes and many are using 1/8" adjustment MOA for the much finer adjustment range even more so in .22 rimfire comps where the targets bullseye is very, very small and you shoot 1 shot at each target for score.
Also how many people are generally using holdovers when again users keep demanding bigger and bigger scope tubes for even more adjustment range is dialing the range and of course are very demanding on what they want for turrets and accurate tracking where they are dialing for distance and using the reticles center crosshair and not using a holdover point at all.
Sure guys shooting timed competition events may at times be using holdovers just for the time saving aspect and then FFP regardless of magnification setting is much more important.
But again the use scenario does play a big part.
Personally I like the less busier SFP reticles like the Vortex EBR4, but again it suites my old eyes and the type of shooting I will be doing.
Guys Guys, whew..do you have a pod cast or training that just kind of starts at the beginning? Yes I liked midwest. understood 1st 2nd focal plane but all the numbers and descriptions without saying what they mean gives me zero understanding of how to use it. Just saying might use it for long range or some windage drop or hold over and I understand what that means but what is the value of the ticks how do you get the values for what power on the scope? I know iron sites cross hairs and cause and effect. BDC? what is that I am just trying to better use the equipment and make a choice but you are not explaining what the stuff is...PRS ? whats that HSR ? whats that?
I am curious about LPO on a lever gun ie 35rem
What do you guys think about the LPVO Arken EP-8 KLBOX reticle?
I'd like a bold V plex
@vortexnation On the topic of one gun for everything what scope would y’all pick? Assuming your one rifle and cartridge is for hunting out west and in the south east, as well as for competition or tactical use. What would this look like for each of you guys, the LHT? How else would you set this rifle up?
48:58 "1/10 of a mill= 1cm@100M" ¿1Mrad=1mm(0.1cm it was not clear how many places to move the decimal) @100M ?
¿Is this right?
~1\3" = ~ 1cm at 100m (8.382mm actually ) (25.4mm=1") making the margin at 1090yd (1000M) 17.2mm or .68" . So mils is less than 1 click less precise than a moa scope rounded to 1"/100yd at 1000
When talking about the 65 creed more hack Find the Distance of target −2. Then dial that in. Does that hack work for m.o.a or mill Because the two forty three is almost identical out to 8 hundred yards So that little lifehack might be the same. For the 243 . Depending on m o a or. mills damn I was that guy 😂 sorry I jumped the gun on that one😂
BDC is for those who are looking for "close enough is good enough"
...
It wouldn't be perfect. But.
If you are stuck in inches and yards in your mind... In your mental range estimates...
Just so much more familiar with inches feet and yards...
M-O-O-N: that spells ‘The Stand’ by Stephen King.
If you half the magnification on a sfp scope does the moa double. For instance, if the distance is 10 moa at 20 power. Is it 20 moa at 10 power? I've read that it does but haven't tested it.
Yes...mostly. Assuming the power ring is correctly cald. But it's always been for practical applications for me. It's an inversely proportional equation.
Hey @VortexNation I have the Crossfire II 6-24x50 BDC I'm having a weird thing with the focus ring, when I set it up there is play and it rocks side to side with tons of in n out play in the threads which shows the reticle move when it moves, which I'm 100% sure it moves during recoil should I be calling u guys? I haven't shot it since I noticed the movement. also if there is an issue do you guys offer an upgrade program where I pay the difference on the ffp diamondback 6-24? Scope is less than 6 months old since purchase at turners
The Stand.
My God if you pretend they're talking about dongs this becomes one of the greatest videos ever
Somebody's stoned.
@@userJohnSmith it's a good thing I hate weed or I'd be dead
@@Juliankb39 Wise words.
The Stand
Lpvo for hunting?
Yes, for those close encounters. Guys use them all of the time on large calibers for African Big Game.
BDC sounds like a good idea, until you get the understanding that it is practically never showing correctly (other than in military with standardized one rifle model and one cartridge). Cartridge, load, primer, bullet, rifle, barrel length, rifling twist, temperature, all affect the ballistics. Of course if someone looking for a 0m-200m pretty good quick rough corrections, then possibly great. But like mentioned before, if you want to try a better load, you'll go off the BDC reticle fast. Typically you see people making their own "corrections" to BDC. then 200m line becomes 238m line, 300m becomes 355m or something like that. Seems extra unwanted nuisance and ruining the whole idea.
The BDC is not a good reticle. I own 3 and everyone that shoots them dislikes them. Please offer viper HSLR with 1 MOA marks for windage and drop. BDC reticles are for ignorant people. Is the viper HSLR for ignorant people?