Realistically, 400 yards covers the vast majority of hunting shots. It doesn't take much to kill even an elk at 400 yards. I love this movement to shorter ranges, shorter, lighter rifles, smaller more durable scopes.
The more I've gotten into guns the more I just think...why not just get a short barrel 308 that doesn't require a long barrel...suppress it...and shoot heavy bullets. I'm never going to want to shoot at an animal over 400 yards if I'm being ethical. Taking a short barrel 300 WSM for caribou in August. Let er' rip.
@@KEV_101 well yeah…obviously you can get more velocity out of a .308 but he was talking about a short barrel .308 and running a suppressor (implying subsonic rounds). Which means greater velocity offers no benefit and you’d be better off using a caliber designed specifically for what he wants.
I built something very similar on a ruger 77 in 308 a few years ago. 16”, box mags, 2-10 glass, griffin can. Excellent handy package for hunting to 400 yards
So up here in Canada, outside of region caliber restrictions (Southern Ontario and PEI), length is restricted in two manners. 1) Barrel length for semi-automatic long guns have to be 18.5inches 2) overall length is greater then 26 inches. So if your bolt gun or lever gun is greater then 26 inches your good to go. The can is not welcome though, unfortunately. Love your guys podcast, cheers!
Good explanation 👍. You can get the BCL mrx Bison with a 12.5" barrel in 300bo, loaded subsonic with a blast can. That's about as quiet as we can get in Canukistan, the land of no fun 😢
I’m getting similar velocities with my 308WIN Browning BLR with 20” barrel. Short, light, handy 308 rifles are such a joy when still hunting in the bush or sitting in the tree stand.
Worth the extra bit of money. Mine shoots great after adjusting the windage by a hair toward the left. It cycles very well, it doesn’t kick at all, but maybe 308’s don’t usually kick, I don’t know. caveats are that proper full length resizing every reload is necessary, and make sure the bolt is squeezed in fully - standard advice for a lever action, but when I lent it for others to test it out, they don’t seem to pay attention to properly operating the lever.
Plus 1 for lead balloons! Been waiting for this topic for a long time. I highly recommend doing a gel test with match ammo from a short barrel. The slower starting velocity aids in penetration, and the lower velocity that match ammo is best used at pushes your ranges further. You lose very little “practical” range with a short barrel and an eldm/amax, eldx, or tmk.
Let's go with the .338 Federal lead balloon episode! I wanted to swap my Sig Cross to a .338 Fed but ended up letting it go instead, just didn't scratch any itches for me.
I had a 338 fed and it was ok. Not as big of a lead balloon as you would think but it wasn’t really doing anything my 308 couldn’t do at longer range. Plus the ammo was hard to find and expensive.
I asked my wife does barrel length matter, she said a heavy barrel is desirable & it cant be too long because they can be difficult to handle in tight, brushy situations but it can't be too short either or it wont be long enough to get an acceptable muzzle velocity for the load.
I'm in British Columbia Canada and our provincial hunting regulations require barrel lengths greater than 305mm (12.2 inches). My latest hunting rifle build is a bolt action 14in carbon fiber 6.5Creedmoor. With factory Hornady 143 ELD-X my avg velocity is 2360fps which is only 340fps slower compared to their 24in test barrel. It's still plenty accurate out to 1000m so it'll do the job within 200m hunting distances.
@@triedproven9908 I've never seen a creedmore round get anywhere near factory claims even in 22 inch barrel. I wouldn't be surprised if they are using 26+ test barrels at the factory
@@triedproven9908 i dont know what that means? Treat the barrel how? treat the rounds with what? Bullets shouldnt tumble as most barrels are a high twist rate in the 6.5. bullets should be getting adequate spin out of any 6.5 creedmore.
shooting those eldx bullets out of that short barrel is probably a good thing, because ive seen gel tests lately of these rounds exploding at velocities over 2200fps. they seem to be made for sub 2000 fps impacts.
I just gotta share this hunting story with y’all. Here in Texas we shoot smallish Whitetail at around 100 yards. For decades I hunted with a H&K 770 308. 19 1/2” barrel. While I never lost a deer I got all kinds of different terminal results. One year I came to camp with 150 Nosler ballistic tip ammo. A new guy showed up with a 24” barrel 308 700. He had the same ammo! We both got small meat does at 100 yards. I had a ping pong sized exit wound through the shoulders. He blew the shoulder almost completely off!! I couldn’t believe the difference!!! Later I acquired a 24” 700 of my own and took both rifles to range to chronograph my loads through both rifles. My results were a consistent 200+ difference between the two rifles. Later I found that the 24” gun consistently provided more terminal performance on game by a noticeable margin over the H&K. For years I’ve heard that 100-150 fps won’t make a difference in the field. Well for sure 200 does!
I did that with my 6.5 CM. I ran 120s and 129s. They worked but they didn't produce the terminal ballistics that the 308 did. I couldn't tell it much from a 243. @@austinhowze6280
@@austinhowze6280what’s funny is that the 6.5 loses all its advantages for shooting compared to a 25-06 or .270 when you don’t shoot the high BC 140gr+ bullets. You’d truthfully be better running a 130gr out of a .270 or a 115-125gr from a 25-06. Nothing wrong with a 6.5, but the mass hysteria for it, only for guys to go away from literal purpose of the cartridge within a couple years is pretty entertaining.
@nickschaps4022 the gun I have was bought used for one but only came in 308 or 6.5 so there was no other option and it spits .25 moa with the eldx but that's a shitty hunting bullet that's why I went to copper
Great timing. I'm building a Ruger 7mm-08 and chopping the barrel to 16" and throwing it into a heat seeker stock. Threading the barrel for suppressor. Something lightweight to walk through the woods with for short range (30-150 yrds).
Watched this at least 3 times 😂 suggestion for a future topic : the effect of fluting on barrels (temperature, stiffness,…) would be very interested in that!
I’ve never had a barrel that shot measurably better after fluting, but I have had a few that shot worse. If weight is the primary criteria, I just use a thinner and/or shorter barrel. The velocity loss is negligible with modern cartridges, and the rifles carry and handle better. Barrel cooling isn’t a concern in most hunting situations unless you’re hunting coyotes or pigs. In that case, you’re probably better served with a semi-auto anyway. There’s also the carbon-fiber wrapped option, which is more expensive, but not excessively so once you consider the cost of a custom steel barrel plus the additional charge of having the fluting done. Fluting does look cool and adds a custom touch, which I suppose is a good enough reason to do just about anything.
You guys must see the Reflex Suppressors we use in South Africa. So Half the suppressor fits over the Barrel, making that first chamber nice and big, and still only have half the length of the suppressors sticks out in front of the barrel
Thank you for finally going over this! You have dropped a little info here and there on numerous podcasts and I knew you were running a shorter barrel 308, and finally figured out that you were running a 130 grain, but didn't know what. I've been doing the same and finally built a short 308 last year with a defiance action, carbon barrel, Triggertech trigger, and a Grayboe Phoenix stock, and 3-15 vortex LHT. I absolutely love the short, handy, 308. I may have to try it with my razor 1-6 or my razor 1‐10!
Got a Savage 110 Lightweight Storm 7mm-08 cut down to 16.5 with my suppressor barrel is 22 inches long and gun weighs 7.5lbs with suppressor about 42 inches over all length. Its a fun gun.
The fact that I’m hooked on this podcast love the optics and respect you guys and thankful for all of the great information and you guys like toyota was it! Huge fan!
My first rifle was a 16” Remington model 7 in 308. Sweetest shooting little gun I’ve ever owned. Thanks for sharing, it made me feel good to reflect on my good fortune in owning this rifle
@@bobborlog1677 but the difference in felt recoil, at least in my experience with any manual action 308, is very noticeable. My model 7 is very comfortable in every way but the sharp kick from such a small gun took some getting used to for me. Now I don’t notice it and I believe the benefits of the rifle outweigh the noise and recoil issue
Reflex suppressors is what we'd call those in the states. We have a fee on the market, most notable if the AEM5 on the MK12, but theyre not very popular. I'm sure they would if we didn't have the regulation around silencers.
Hi Ryan! I just recently went through the exact same process and came up with: Tikka T3x light stainless, 308 Win, cut barrel to 17". For better balance with a suppressor on I went with a laminated OEM Tikka T3 stock (second hand), bedded it and added flush cup QD sling mounts. For optics I went with a S&B Zenith 3-12x50 illuminated FFP reticle. The whole rig comes in at 41.3" and 9.36 lbs (scope is 24.7 oz). An excellent all-round rig for box blinds, still hunting or even driven hunts. Perfect for Germany, where I live. Best regards, K.
Where I hunt, most of my shots are 50 yards and in. I started hunting with a Rem 700 in .270 Win w/ a 22" bbl. After a few hunts, I brought my AR in .300 Blackout w/ a 16" bbl. Next hunt, I plan to go out with a Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 Mag w/ a 7.5" bbl. Scope or not, we'll see, but regardless it's going to be a lot handier and lighter than anything I've previously carried.
An interesting cartridge for one of these compact rifles would be 277 SIG Fury. In fact, the primary advantage of that cartridge using the "hybrid case" ammo is its short barrel performance. The 80,000 psi gets more energy out of its propellant in the first few inches of the barrel. The new military M7's barrel is only 13" long. According to SIG's published info, the Fury produces the velocity of a traditional 270 Win but out of a 16" vs 24" barrel. FWIW, it produces 270 WSM velocities out of a 24" barrel, but so does the 270 WSM. 😀
@@sublimetulii23 True, but 270 WSM is not exactly cheap either. Typically the number of cartridges used while hunting is pretty low, so the hunting ammo cost is pretty minor compared to the (currently) expensive rifle, scope and suppressor. The less expensive brass-cased ammo can also be used, especially for practice, but there will be a reduction of performance to close to a 7mm-08 (the 277 Fury case holds a little more powder).
But the hybrid case operates at significantly higher pressure, hence the need for the case material. The standard pressure 277 Sig, as opposed to the high pressure option on 6.8x51mm, isnt going to be very impressive over existing options.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz As noted above, the 277 Fury will largely show a significant advantage when used in short barrels. It would probably take a 28 Nosler to equal its performance in a 16" barrel. I would not underestimate its dual use potential, though. There are a lot of places where deer hunters would mainly use the lower-pressure load and only switch to the high-pressure one for the occasional trip "out West" or an elk/moose hunt.
@@jfess1911 okay, I'll say it a different way: good luck finding a rifle that will be rated for the high pressure load. It can be done, but with most rifles on the market designed around 65,000 psi or less carttidges a rifle manufacturer rating their rifle to handle what amounts to proof loads is going to be difficult.
If you need to make sure your M118LR doesnt go transsonic until after 1200 yards, you need barrel length. If your gonna tag a white tail at 100 yards you can use an 8" .308 and be fine. A bit extreme but viable. The 16" or 18"* is really what would suit a lot of people very well. *dont knock an extra inch or two, to allow barrel setback (unlikely but possible) or thread/muzzle repair (actually likely) while staying above 16". Unless you just wanna buy a new barrel instead of repair. Buyers choice.
As mentioned in New Zealand everyone is running suppressed rifles although a lot of our are over barrel suppressors so you only adding 3-4 inch so gun can be shorter then std Great video keep up the great work👍
I am building just such a rifle. I’m using a Savage AXIS in 308, barrel cut down to 16.5” with a target crown and with the factory plastic stock (very lite) bobbed off at the rear of the grip. I designed a threaded adaptor to fit and be epoxied into the grip area of the stock to accept a AR style collapsable stock that would allow a minimum legal length. Very lite, very short for backpacking and yes, I have a Vortex Diamondback 2x7 scope for it. Thanks for the tip on the 15” load data, I have a 8# jug of Varget and a couple hundred 125gr Nosler BTs ready to go. 2900fps is nothing to sneeze at, should drop a whitetail like a laser beam.
I have been shooting rifles for a long time. I am 68. All of my favorite rifles had a barrel of a min of 24 inches. Those are the centerfire rifles. My rimfire rifle all had long barrels as well. I would guess my old Marlin Model 60 has a 20 inch barrel, it is very accurate for a semi-auto. My most favorite rimfire was a Winchester Model 69A bolt that my Dad bought new in the 40s. I think it had a 24-26" barrel.
On rewatching this video, I was reminded of a hunting cartridge that would be an especially good in a 16" barrel the 338 RCM (Ruger Compact Magnum). This is actually the parent case for the 6.5 PRC. This cartridge holds a little more powder than the 30-06. The larger diameter bullet and short case make better use of short barrels, per grain of powder, than a longer, skinner case and smaller diameter bullet.
Add one in Wyoming for the next Lead Balloon episode. I’m a fan of the 284 Winchester, 338 Federal, 300 RCM and 338 RCM, 7mm STW, 7mm Weatherby and 7mm RUM etc. Love hearing from you all. How would the 16 barrel in the 6.5 BC stack up?
MINIMUM EXPANSION VELOCITY! First, I love this podcast. But... you should not have this conversation without discussing bullet minimum expansion velocity... especially for all copper bullets. I believe the 130gr .308 ttsx has a mev of 1800 fps (please correct me if I'm wrong). For Ryan's stated muzzle velocity of 2942 fps, 1800 fps happens at about 550yrds. Barnes recommends 100-200 fps more than mev for full expansion. 2000 fps is about 425yrds. For ethical hunting with that bullet in that rifle, 425 is your max distance. This is plentry for Wisconsin deer woods, and you guys didn't say anything incorrect, but i think bullet expansion velocity is an important factor when considering use case for a shorter barrel that should be part of this conversation. It can become the limiting factor for ethical hunting.
I shoot my Ruger Hawkeye compact in 308. It's been a great gun for years. Whether in a tree or shooting house, it's got what I need. Great look to yours too.
I’ve done the same with a 16 in Sig Cross in .308 and Thunderbeast Dominus suppressor. It also folds. If you have a pic rail and a good return to zero mount you can take multiple scopes if wanted. Decent return to zero test a few years ago in recoil mag (that is free online).
Modern, efficient cartridges are far less sensitive to barrel length. I cut down a 300 PRC from 26" to 20" and lost 147 fps (Magnetospeed measured) with Hornady ELD-X factory ammo. I'm only down 100 fps from the box velocity on 225gr ELD-M. That's a 5% reduction in velocity but a 20% shorter barrel, an increase in barrel stiffness, and a significant reduction in weight.
This was a great topic and discussion! I'd love to see you guys talk about break action single shot rifles. I have a cva scout v2 in .350 legend and even with a 20 inch barrel it is a super compact rifle. So easy to carry around and uses in different scenarios.
But you do need 14x to properly ID something far away to know whether your allowed to take the shot or to know whether you should stalk closer. Some places have point requirements on deer, some people dont want to shoot a button buck.
Great content as always guys! I've got the Calix Technic cheek piece on my stainless 308 T3x lite, the cheek piece really took my shooting to another level. Also equipped with the pistol style grip piece, wider fore end stock piece, Meopta meostar r2 2,5-15x56 scope and a Stalon X108 suppressor. Couldn't be much happier with the setup. A great example of finnish quality. Only thing missing is a proper bipod, been thinking of getting a spartan, only thing holding me back is the price. I use it for anything from range to birds, foxes, deer all the way to moose. Greetings from Finland! 🇫🇮
Suppressor attachments: dead air xeno is a pretty good, lightweight one. You can also get a Xeno Zero device that has no flashhider or brake on the end, its just threads and taper. Its not the only option, just the only one i remember being universal.
Excellent data and discussion. I’m running a 16” 308 in a suppressed bullpup (Desert Tech SRS) and it’s even more handy than those Tikkas. Not giving up anything and can easily make hits on steel at 1k yards.
Just purchased a howa 308 superlite w 16” barrel. Will run w can and red dot for stalking elk with 150-165 ttsx or accubond. Also purchased a 338 lapua RPR with thunderbeast can that will shoot 250-265 lrx or accubond. Will hike that gun up to our glassing location once at beginning of season and once out after we have bull down. Glassing location is flat bench where we have shots from 300 to 1000 and the bowl is full of elk as it is nasty hard to get in there. We have shot 5 bulls in 5 years within this bowl. The 308 weighs under 6 pounds w suppressor and loaded. I look forward to exploring the mountains with that rifle.
I’m loving my Sig Cross 18” bbl in 6.5cm. Hand loading I’m pushing 140’s 2,800 fps easily. Found a chart showing percentage of powder burned for an 18” bbl. and I’m set on using Reloader 17(99.7% burn).
I cut down a savage 110 in .270 win to 16.5" and its a sweet, handy deer rifle. I asked the Winchester rep about the expansion threshold of their deer season XP and he told me it would expand nicely at as little as 1500 fps so if that's true the bullets will perform out much further than I can hit game.
my build: Grs Bifrost, 6.5*55Scan,T3x SS lite,20" barrel A tec H2 modular supressor w/break endcap,Deer Moose and capercaillie, wood grouse,geese.Max dist for me 350m.
Europe has many firearms regulations, including max FPS, max chamber pressures, maximum barrel length, max gr weight, extra. That's one of the reasons their firearms are shorter, is to meet all the government regulations. Barrel length matters depending on caliber, projectile type, projectile weight, weapon platform, extra. From FPS to felt recoil, barrel length is important.
🤔 Ryan is progressing quite nicely and finally realizing that he doesn't need a 338 Magnum or 300 Weatherby Magnum to hunt out West! YOU ARE CORRECT SIR! The "Future" is shorter barrels, monolithic bullets, 1x6 power scopes (Sorry Mark 😂), efficient "short fat cartridges", and Toyota Tacoma's! 🤣 Mabey, Ryan can buy a truck in burnt orange, to match his gun? 🤪
I set up my ar10s so that if I want a heavy rifle I take the 20 inch bull barrel and if I don't need a heavy rifle I'll take the 16" pencil barrel. Having both is the way to do it. So much firepower in both.
Tikka responded. They now make a 'Ranch' model in the T3x Roughtech line that's 16" and threaded. 308, 223, and 350 Legend. My 223 shoots half minute groups with the factory ammo I've run through it, impressive.
Interesting stuff! I've just joined the shooting world in the UK (yes, we do have one) and this topic is a whole thing i've never thought about. This is a very interesting way of looking at things. I'm enjoying the channel too.
I have the 20" Tikka T3X CTR SS Chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor and I absolutely love it. Im not an avid hunter and have a lot more handgun experience than rifles other than a .22lr takedown. I have shot it 4 times and the biggest group I have shot was a .79 5 shot group with Sellior & Belloit. When I shhot the 140 gr Hornady ELD-M or the Norma 140gr Match ammot it shoots .49 5 shot groups consistantly. Folks Tikka has figured something out that most people have to pay a lot more to get accuracy wise. The Bolt action is smoother than any other action I have personally felt. The trigger is adjustable down to 2lbs from factory and for $10 + shipping adding a YO DAVE trigger spring gets it down to 1lbs and some have even gotten under. The only complaint I would say I would like addressed is cocking the bolt is a little tough like it has a cam over. But its not a custom action so I would suspect it is like that for the hunting aspect. Either way they guarantee 1 moa on all their rifles.
I love that orange blaze furniture on that Tikka. The Canadian Rangers rifle is an orange laminate Tikka. But sorry, I really hope this short barrel thing does not become the new trend. If hunting in forest maybe but not on the plains. I have a 20" 9.3x62 tikka for woods hunting but currently looking for a 26" 22-250 for the plains.
Some companies like Federal and Hornady even offer factory loaded options for shorter barrels. Federal Fusion is an excellent hunting bullet and they make a variant called MSR (modern sporting rifle) for use in AR platform rifles, with shorter barrels. That would probably be an excellent choice in these 308’s, if you didn’t want to hand load. Hornady makes their Black line of ammo, which is intended for AR’s…although the bullets they use aren’t necessarily hunting bullets.
Im having a 20 inch barrel put on my 300 wsm. The way i see it is in a hunting rifle that you use to spot and stalk elk and deer etc a short rifle is far superior in my opinion compared to a long skinny barrel. Good video guys
Cheers lads, Have you done an episode on factory Scout rifles like the Ruger Gunsite, Mossberg etc mounting scopes on them forward or rear and if it makes a difference or advantage over the factory (open sites)
Thank you for “reasonably” discussing differences between 308 and 6.5cr; I have no issues with 6.5cr, but it is not the best thing since sliced bread. It doesn’t provide me any advantages in the ranges I am (and can) going to engage. If I ever dip my toe in the long range steel game, then absolutely the 6.5cr would be near the top of my list.
Marlin 1895 Trapper with a Witt Machine Mod.1 .458 can. Only adds about 4.5” to the barrel length. Combine with a 525 gr. WFN at 1050 fps or 1600 fps. I know how much Ryan loves the .45-70!
In Canada we are allowed short barrel rifles but the overall length has to be over 26” of the firearm but it has to be from factory if you cut it down it has to 18.5 inches or it becomes a restricted firearm if it’s restricted you can go no shorter then 4.25”
I’m in love with my Ruger gunsight scout rifle it’s seriously such a handy thing mine is a 308 Winchester but now they are making it in 350 legend and I think 450 bushmaster
Get a Svemko from Norway less than 12 ounces for their magnum version with a 1/4 turn mounting option. Their small one for the 308 weighs sub 9 oz. Titanium internals and Aluminum shell. A bit on the expensive side, but a one in a lifetime purchase. Will never give mine up
I've got Ruger 77 compacts with 16" bbls in 308, and 7mm08 another a 16" Gunsite scout 308 and a Hawkeye compact Magnum 20" 300 RCM. Never seen a disadvantage in on game performance with the short bbls vs my standard length bbl rifles within normal hunting ranges but they are much handier to carry especially in the brush.
The 2940 ft/s on the 130 Barnes factory ammo is crazy. Would love to know what powder they are using. Any powder I have modeled in tool would be over pressure spec at that speed
Yep, and he’s probably shooting over pressure. Common for reloaders to be over pressure, not having test equipment they base it off of pressure signs that don’t actually show up until we’ll above spec.
@@jaydunbar7538 that’s the thing, according to them the speeds were with the factory Barnes Vortex loads. I’ll check some more powders they have in the Barnes reloading manual tomorrow
The real question is why don't Americans have over barrel suppressors? Here in New Zealand we generally hunt with a suppressor that comes over the barrel so only say 6 to 8 inches protrude past the muzzle. It makes the rifle even shorter and handier to maneuver.
😃 What do Mark, Short Barrels, and a Toyota Tacoma's all have in common (besides things that are small 🤭) - and besides Ryan too? THEY ARE ALL VERY PRACTICAL CHOICES! 🥳 Just Imagine one in a 300 wsm or 7mm prc Mark? 😜
What's really funny, to me, is that I happened to get an email reply from Tikka (for an email I sent earlier today) and went to their site and saw their RUclips video where they show the orange add-ons, which I've never seen before - and suddenly, here we are in this video - and I've watched a number of your videos thus far - just weird coincidence that I see THIS video today, with the orange Tikka add-ons at the same time - and now I'm starting to ramble... Edit - I am in Canada - suppressors are illegal here.
Velocity SD will decrease as the barrel shortens. Load-to-load variations diminish as the barrel length is now not long enough to use any extra powder. Also, each cartridge has an “optimal” barrel length. The .308’s is about 20” so anything shorter than that will see improvements to velocity SD and anything after that will see diminishing returns in velocity with a hotter load. In a 16” barrel, you’re getting a consistent burn of the same amount of powder during the shorter dwell time. Longer dwell times allow larger impact on velocity.
You guys make the best 1-10 in the game, hands down. Can you please fix the reticle? The center of it is too course for bolt gun work, and it needs a death-donut or somethin to make 1x aiming better. It's SOOO close to perfect, just give it that last 10% please!!!
So this is November 3rd of 2024, I rebuilt my Thompson center venture over the course of the last 2 years. Stock barrel, stock action, stock trigger, and I had put on. I know you're going to hate me but Leopold 3 to 18x44 vx5 scope, I used to run 140 grain nozzle partitions. They were running around 2550 because I had two different 708 rifles I was using them, but means I rebuilt my gun. Plus I also put Leopold rings and bases, and went to CFE 223 powder with the Barnes TTSx bullet 140 grain, I'm one grain below Max powder charge according to their chart, My barrel is 20 in Long. It's like a mid weight barrel, and I'm getting 28.25 ft per second. No signs of pressure, nothing, and I believe I have shot in three deer with that so far and every one of them went straight down which two of them were headshots at 225 yd, I'm getting 1/2 inch -5/8 in groups
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Realistically, 400 yards covers the vast majority of hunting shots. It doesn't take much to kill even an elk at 400 yards. I love this movement to shorter ranges, shorter, lighter rifles, smaller more durable scopes.
The more I've gotten into guns the more I just think...why not just get a short barrel 308 that doesn't require a long barrel...suppress it...and shoot heavy bullets. I'm never going to want to shoot at an animal over 400 yards if I'm being ethical. Taking a short barrel 300 WSM for caribou in August. Let er' rip.
That would be a perfect sub 400 yard setup
And I'll add onto my comment, add in federal terminal ascents and you've got a perfect setup
Why not just go with a 300 blackout then?
@@jevraets530158.6 blackout
@@KEV_101 well yeah…obviously you can get more velocity out of a .308 but he was talking about a short barrel .308 and running a suppressor (implying subsonic rounds). Which means greater velocity offers no benefit and you’d be better off using a caliber designed specifically for what he wants.
I built something very similar on a ruger 77 in 308 a few years ago. 16”, box mags, 2-10 glass, griffin can. Excellent handy package for hunting to 400 yards
So up here in Canada, outside of region caliber restrictions (Southern Ontario and PEI), length is restricted in two manners. 1) Barrel length for semi-automatic long guns have to be 18.5inches 2) overall length is greater then 26 inches. So if your bolt gun or lever gun is greater then 26 inches your good to go. The can is not welcome though, unfortunately. Love your guys podcast, cheers!
Sure would like to have suppressors legal here though; would be mighty neighbourly...
Good explanation 👍. You can get the BCL mrx Bison with a 12.5" barrel in 300bo, loaded subsonic with a blast can. That's about as quiet as we can get in Canukistan, the land of no fun 😢
It has to come from the factory with the short barrel cant for it yourself
I’m getting similar velocities with my 308WIN Browning BLR with 20” barrel. Short, light, handy 308 rifles are such a joy when still hunting in the bush or sitting in the tree stand.
Worth the extra bit of money. Mine shoots great after adjusting the windage by a hair toward the left. It cycles very well, it doesn’t kick at all, but maybe 308’s don’t usually kick, I don’t know. caveats are that proper full length resizing every reload is necessary, and make sure the bolt is squeezed in fully - standard advice for a lever action, but when I lent it for others to test it out, they don’t seem to pay attention to properly operating the lever.
Plus 1 for lead balloons!
Been waiting for this topic for a long time. I highly recommend doing a gel test with match ammo from a short barrel. The slower starting velocity aids in penetration, and the lower velocity that match ammo is best used at pushes your ranges further. You lose very little “practical” range with a short barrel and an eldm/amax, eldx, or tmk.
Let's go with the .338 Federal lead balloon episode! I wanted to swap my Sig Cross to a .338 Fed but ended up letting it go instead, just didn't scratch any itches for me.
.338 federal is my dream shorty. It's super efficient out of short barrels.
I rebarreled my Savage 99 to a 19'' 338 Federal barrel. Not a lightweight, but certainly handy. Do the lead balloon!
I had a 338 fed and it was ok. Not as big of a lead balloon as you would think but it wasn’t really doing anything my 308 couldn’t do at longer range. Plus the ammo was hard to find and expensive.
More lead ballon’s please
I was going to do something similar with my impulse but went for thr 358 winchester on 17". It's a sweet ass gun.
I asked my wife does barrel length matter, she said a heavy barrel is desirable & it cant be too long because they can be difficult to handle in tight, brushy situations but it can't be too short either or it wont be long enough to get an acceptable muzzle velocity for the load.
Now a suppressor seems weird 😫
love lead balloon. 338 fed. 17 fireball. 27 nos. 348 win. 357 max. 300 & 338 RCM. 260 Rem. 7-30 waters. 338 marlin express. 327 fed mag
I'm in British Columbia Canada and our provincial hunting regulations require barrel lengths greater than 305mm (12.2 inches). My latest hunting rifle build is a bolt action 14in carbon fiber 6.5Creedmoor. With factory Hornady 143 ELD-X my avg velocity is 2360fps which is only 340fps slower compared to their 24in test barrel. It's still plenty accurate out to 1000m so it'll do the job within 200m hunting distances.
Creedmoor maxes out at 20inches so that 2700fps target you could hit between 18 and 20in. depending on powder.
@@triedproven9908 I've never seen a creedmore round get anywhere near factory claims even in 22 inch barrel. I wouldn't be surprised if they are using 26+ test barrels at the factory
@@Magnum_Express It's because most don't treat the rounds or the barrel. And wonder why it ends up tumbling and skirting the barrel.
@@triedproven9908 i dont know what that means? Treat the barrel how? treat the rounds with what? Bullets shouldnt tumble as most barrels are a high twist rate in the 6.5. bullets should be getting adequate spin out of any 6.5 creedmore.
shooting those eldx bullets out of that short barrel is probably a good thing, because ive seen gel tests lately of these rounds exploding at velocities over 2200fps. they seem to be made for sub 2000 fps impacts.
I just gotta share this hunting story with y’all. Here in Texas we shoot smallish Whitetail at around 100 yards. For decades I hunted with a H&K 770 308. 19 1/2” barrel. While I never lost a deer I got all kinds of different terminal results. One year I came to camp with 150 Nosler ballistic tip ammo. A new guy showed up with a 24” barrel 308 700. He had the same ammo! We both got small meat does at 100 yards. I had a ping pong sized exit wound through the shoulders. He blew the shoulder almost completely off!! I couldn’t believe the difference!!! Later I acquired a 24” 700 of my own and took both rifles to range to chronograph my loads through both rifles. My results were a consistent 200+ difference between the two rifles. Later I found that the 24” gun consistently provided more terminal performance on game by a noticeable margin over the H&K. For years I’ve heard that 100-150 fps won’t make a difference in the field. Well for sure 200 does!
It makes a really big difference I'm switching from a 140 to 120gr on my 6.5 I should see 300fps more I'm thinking it's going to make a big difference
I did that with my 6.5 CM. I ran 120s and 129s. They worked but they didn't produce the terminal ballistics that the 308 did. I couldn't tell it much from a 243.
@@austinhowze6280
@@austinhowze6280what’s funny is that the 6.5 loses all its advantages for shooting compared to a 25-06 or .270 when you don’t shoot the high BC 140gr+ bullets. You’d truthfully be better running a 130gr out of a .270 or a 115-125gr from a 25-06.
Nothing wrong with a 6.5, but the mass hysteria for it, only for guys to go away from literal purpose of the cartridge within a couple years is pretty entertaining.
@nickschaps4022 the gun I have was bought used for one but only came in 308 or 6.5 so there was no other option and it spits .25 moa with the eldx but that's a shitty hunting bullet that's why I went to copper
Great timing. I'm building a Ruger 7mm-08 and chopping the barrel to 16" and throwing it into a heat seeker stock. Threading the barrel for suppressor. Something lightweight to walk through the woods with for short range (30-150 yrds).
Watched this at least 3 times 😂 suggestion for a future topic : the effect of fluting on barrels (temperature, stiffness,…) would be very interested in that!
I’ve never had a barrel that shot measurably better after fluting, but I have had a few that shot worse. If weight is the primary criteria, I just use a thinner and/or shorter barrel. The velocity loss is negligible with modern cartridges, and the rifles carry and handle better. Barrel cooling isn’t a concern in most hunting situations unless you’re hunting coyotes or pigs. In that case, you’re probably better served with a semi-auto anyway. There’s also the carbon-fiber wrapped option, which is more expensive, but not excessively so once you consider the cost of a custom steel barrel plus the additional charge of having the fluting done. Fluting does look cool and adds a custom touch, which I suppose is a good enough reason to do just about anything.
One problem with fluting and carbon wrapped barrels is that you cant shorten the barrel, if you want to change the setup.
You guys must see the Reflex Suppressors we use in South Africa. So Half the suppressor fits over the Barrel, making that first chamber nice and big, and still only have half the length of the suppressors sticks out in front of the barrel
Thank you for finally going over this! You have dropped a little info here and there on numerous podcasts and I knew you were running a shorter barrel 308, and finally figured out that you were running a 130 grain, but didn't know what. I've been doing the same and finally built a short 308 last year with a defiance action, carbon barrel, Triggertech trigger, and a Grayboe Phoenix stock, and 3-15 vortex LHT. I absolutely love the short, handy, 308. I may have to try it with my razor 1-6 or my razor 1‐10!
Got a Savage 110 Lightweight Storm 7mm-08 cut down to 16.5 with my suppressor barrel is 22 inches long and gun weighs 7.5lbs with suppressor about 42 inches over all length. Its a fun gun.
The fact that I’m hooked on this podcast love the optics and respect you guys and thankful for all of the great information and you guys like toyota was it! Huge fan!
My first rifle was a 16” Remington model 7 in 308. Sweetest shooting little gun I’ve ever owned. Thanks for sharing, it made me feel good to reflect on my good fortune in owning this rifle
The difference in 308 from 16 to 20 inch is not as much velocity as I thought
@@bobborlog1677 but the difference in felt recoil, at least in my experience with any manual action 308, is very noticeable. My model 7 is very comfortable in every way but the sharp kick from such a small gun took some getting used to for me. Now I don’t notice it and I believe the benefits of the rifle outweigh the noise and recoil issue
Here in NZ we mostly use suppressors that are Iver barrel as much as beyond barrel. This keeps even more length down.
Yeah mate.
A 308 with a 16.5inch barrel and over barrel suppressor. Great bush gun.
Reflex suppressors is what we'd call those in the states.
We have a fee on the market, most notable if the AEM5 on the MK12, but theyre not very popular. I'm sure they would if we didn't have the regulation around silencers.
Yep, Hardy's make the best on the market
Dpt over barrel suppressors are the most popular in NZ and very light weight. Would not own a rifle without one on it again.
Hi Ryan!
I just recently went through the exact same process and came up with:
Tikka T3x light stainless, 308 Win, cut barrel to 17". For better balance with a suppressor on I went with a laminated OEM Tikka T3 stock (second hand), bedded it and added flush cup QD sling mounts. For optics I went with a S&B Zenith 3-12x50 illuminated FFP reticle.
The whole rig comes in at 41.3" and 9.36 lbs (scope is 24.7 oz).
An excellent all-round rig for box blinds, still hunting or even driven hunts. Perfect for Germany, where I live.
Best regards,
K.
Where I hunt, most of my shots are 50 yards and in. I started hunting with a Rem 700 in .270 Win w/ a 22" bbl. After a few hunts, I brought my AR in .300 Blackout w/ a 16" bbl. Next hunt, I plan to go out with a Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 Mag w/ a 7.5" bbl. Scope or not, we'll see, but regardless it's going to be a lot handier and lighter than anything I've previously carried.
An interesting cartridge for one of these compact rifles would be 277 SIG Fury. In fact, the primary advantage of that cartridge using the "hybrid case" ammo is its short barrel performance. The 80,000 psi gets more energy out of its propellant in the first few inches of the barrel. The new military M7's barrel is only 13" long. According to SIG's published info, the Fury produces the velocity of a traditional 270 Win but out of a 16" vs 24" barrel. FWIW, it produces 270 WSM velocities out of a 24" barrel, but so does the 270 WSM. 😀
It’s expensive though!
@@sublimetulii23 True, but 270 WSM is not exactly cheap either. Typically the number of cartridges used while hunting is pretty low, so the hunting ammo cost is pretty minor compared to the (currently) expensive rifle, scope and suppressor. The less expensive brass-cased ammo can also be used, especially for practice, but there will be a reduction of performance to close to a 7mm-08 (the 277 Fury case holds a little more powder).
But the hybrid case operates at significantly higher pressure, hence the need for the case material. The standard pressure 277 Sig, as opposed to the high pressure option on 6.8x51mm, isnt going to be very impressive over existing options.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz As noted above, the 277 Fury will largely show a significant advantage when used in short barrels. It would probably take a 28 Nosler to equal its performance in a 16" barrel.
I would not underestimate its dual use potential, though. There are a lot of places where deer hunters would mainly use the lower-pressure load and only switch to the high-pressure one for the occasional trip "out West" or an elk/moose hunt.
@@jfess1911 okay, I'll say it a different way: good luck finding a rifle that will be rated for the high pressure load. It can be done, but with most rifles on the market designed around 65,000 psi or less carttidges a rifle manufacturer rating their rifle to handle what amounts to proof loads is going to be difficult.
Built a 20” .30-06 for Mountain/ Thick Brush/Tree Stand , very handy and very happy with it.
If you need to make sure your M118LR doesnt go transsonic until after 1200 yards, you need barrel length.
If your gonna tag a white tail at 100 yards you can use an 8" .308 and be fine. A bit extreme but viable. The 16" or 18"* is really what would suit a lot of people very well.
*dont knock an extra inch or two, to allow barrel setback (unlikely but possible) or thread/muzzle repair (actually likely) while staying above 16". Unless you just wanna buy a new barrel instead of repair. Buyers choice.
Major Plaster already covered the barrel length trials in his sniper books. Good talk guys! And the orange is awesome!
Barrel over suppressors are probably more common here in New Zealand,more quiet.
Thanks for the mention.
🙌🙌
Do an analysis on how different calibers are affected by barrel length
I just got the CVA Cascade SB in 6.5 creedmoor, and I couldn't be happier.
As mentioned in New Zealand everyone is running suppressed rifles although a lot of our are over barrel suppressors so you only adding 3-4 inch so gun can be shorter then std
Great video keep up the great work👍
I am building just such a rifle. I’m using a Savage AXIS in 308, barrel cut down to 16.5” with a target crown and with the factory plastic stock (very lite) bobbed off at the rear of the grip. I designed a threaded adaptor to fit and be epoxied into the grip area of the stock to accept a AR style collapsable stock that would allow a minimum legal length.
Very lite, very short for backpacking and yes, I have a Vortex Diamondback 2x7 scope for it.
Thanks for the tip on the 15” load data, I have a 8# jug of Varget and a couple hundred 125gr Nosler BTs ready to go. 2900fps is nothing to sneeze at, should drop a whitetail like a laser beam.
This all is amazing. Happy hunting!
5 months ago Ryan talked about this 308 build ans by golly he did it. Never wouldve thought orange would look good on a rifle!
He was also super anti suppressor, and he got one
🤷♂️ "Lead Balloon?!" 💥 The 338 Federal would be a "perfect selection" for fun! 😜
Wish that round took off so ammo was readily available
Me too and then I would probably own one! 👍🤑
I have been shooting rifles for a long time. I am 68. All of my favorite rifles had a barrel of a min of 24 inches. Those are the centerfire rifles. My rimfire rifle all had long barrels as well. I would guess my old Marlin Model 60 has a 20 inch barrel, it is very accurate for a semi-auto. My most favorite rimfire was a Winchester Model 69A bolt that my Dad bought new in the 40s. I think it had a 24-26" barrel.
Have a ruger ranch 6.5 cm with 16.3 inch bbl...shoots .5 moa suppressed with multiple factory ammos. Great cast!
Lead balloon please! 338 Federal would be cool!
On rewatching this video, I was reminded of a hunting cartridge that would be an especially good in a 16" barrel the 338 RCM (Ruger Compact Magnum). This is actually the parent case for the 6.5 PRC. This cartridge holds a little more powder than the 30-06. The larger diameter bullet and short case make better use of short barrels, per grain of powder, than a longer, skinner case and smaller diameter bullet.
Add one in Wyoming for the next Lead Balloon episode. I’m a fan of the 284 Winchester, 338 Federal, 300 RCM and 338 RCM, 7mm STW, 7mm Weatherby and 7mm RUM etc.
Love hearing from you all. How would the 16 barrel in the 6.5 BC stack up?
Which is why I had my custom made Shilen 300 RUM with a 34" barrel.
MINIMUM EXPANSION VELOCITY!
First, I love this podcast. But... you should not have this conversation without discussing bullet minimum expansion velocity... especially for all copper bullets. I believe the 130gr .308 ttsx has a mev of 1800 fps (please correct me if I'm wrong). For Ryan's stated muzzle velocity of 2942 fps, 1800 fps happens at about 550yrds. Barnes recommends 100-200 fps more than mev for full expansion. 2000 fps is about 425yrds. For ethical hunting with that bullet in that rifle, 425 is your max distance.
This is plentry for Wisconsin deer woods, and you guys didn't say anything incorrect, but i think bullet expansion velocity is an important factor when considering use case for a shorter barrel that should be part of this conversation. It can become the limiting factor for ethical hunting.
Adding one for the "please more lead balloons Mark"
I've got a 20" 6.5 creedmoor and I'm not giving up a heck of a lot against 24" barrels.
I shoot my Ruger Hawkeye compact in 308. It's been a great gun for years. Whether in a tree or shooting house, it's got what I need. Great look to yours too.
I’ve done the same with a 16 in Sig Cross in .308 and Thunderbeast Dominus suppressor. It also folds. If you have a pic rail and a good return to zero mount you can take multiple scopes if wanted. Decent return to zero test a few years ago in recoil mag (that is free online).
Modern, efficient cartridges are far less sensitive to barrel length. I cut down a 300 PRC from 26" to 20" and lost 147 fps (Magnetospeed measured) with Hornady ELD-X factory ammo. I'm only down 100 fps from the box velocity on 225gr ELD-M. That's a 5% reduction in velocity but a 20% shorter barrel, an increase in barrel stiffness, and a significant reduction in weight.
Answer: yes
Edit: This is a light deer gun for 200yds hunting distance. Use for heavy timbered, logging roads and very small open fields.
This was a great topic and discussion! I'd love to see you guys talk about break action single shot rifles. I have a cva scout v2 in .350 legend and even with a 20 inch barrel it is a super compact rifle. So easy to carry around and uses in different scenarios.
sounds like a great choice for whitetail or hogs
@keithprinn720 It is my go to for whitetails in Southern Michigan.
Love the idea of pronghorn with an LPVO! People tend to over magnify their hunting guns. You don't need 14x mag to place a shot!
Depends on your eyesight ;)
But you do need 14x to properly ID something far away to know whether your allowed to take the shot or to know whether you should stalk closer. Some places have point requirements on deer, some people dont want to shoot a button buck.
Great content as always guys!
I've got the Calix Technic cheek piece on my stainless 308 T3x lite, the cheek piece really took my shooting to another level. Also equipped with the pistol style grip piece, wider fore end stock piece, Meopta meostar r2 2,5-15x56 scope and a Stalon X108 suppressor. Couldn't be much happier with the setup.
A great example of finnish quality.
Only thing missing is a proper bipod, been thinking of getting a spartan, only thing holding me back is the price.
I use it for anything from range to birds, foxes, deer all the way to moose.
Greetings from Finland! 🇫🇮
Cool to hear my man and local gunsmith Matt Peterson get some air time!
Do most of my hunting in areas where a 200yrd shot is pretty much max. Been using a 18.5” .308 and i’d find it hard to go back to a 24”. So handy.
Thank you so much for this episode!
Suppressor attachments: dead air xeno is a pretty good, lightweight one. You can also get a Xeno Zero device that has no flashhider or brake on the end, its just threads and taper.
Its not the only option, just the only one i remember being universal.
Excellent data and discussion.
I’m running a 16” 308 in a suppressed bullpup (Desert Tech SRS) and it’s even more handy than those Tikkas. Not giving up anything and can easily make hits on steel at 1k yards.
Just purchased a howa 308 superlite w 16” barrel. Will run w can and red dot for stalking elk with 150-165 ttsx or accubond. Also purchased a 338 lapua RPR with thunderbeast can that will shoot 250-265 lrx or accubond. Will hike that gun up to our glassing location once at beginning of season and once out after we have bull down. Glassing location is flat bench where we have shots from 300 to 1000 and the bowl is full of elk as it is nasty hard to get in there. We have shot 5 bulls in 5 years within this bowl. The 308 weighs under 6 pounds w suppressor and loaded. I look forward to exploring the mountains with that rifle.
I’m loving my Sig Cross 18” bbl in 6.5cm. Hand loading I’m pushing 140’s 2,800 fps easily. Found a chart showing percentage of powder burned for an 18” bbl. and I’m set on using Reloader 17(99.7% burn).
🤌 that's satisfying lol
Do you know where I can find that chart ?
Man I wish Tikka would make a 6arc to do this with I didn't know if all the orange add on from tikka would look good but i actually like it
I cut down a savage 110 in .270 win to 16.5" and its a sweet, handy deer rifle. I asked the Winchester rep about the expansion threshold of their deer season XP and he told me it would expand nicely at as little as 1500 fps so if that's true the bullets will perform out much further than I can hit game.
Those before the cut speeds are what I get, close anyways, from my factory 16 inch.
168s @ 2650
150s @ 2750
130s @ 3050
my build: Grs Bifrost, 6.5*55Scan,T3x SS lite,20" barrel A tec H2 modular supressor w/break endcap,Deer Moose and capercaillie, wood grouse,geese.Max dist for me 350m.
...THANK YOU!! THIS WAS INTERESTING. I WISH THAT YOU WOULD "LIST" SOME OF THE "SPECS" OF ALL OF THE "VARIABLES, IN THE VIDEO DESCRIPTION DATA.
Europe has many firearms regulations, including max FPS, max chamber pressures, maximum barrel length, max gr weight, extra. That's one of the reasons their firearms are shorter, is to meet all the government regulations.
Barrel length matters depending on caliber, projectile type, projectile weight, weapon platform, extra. From FPS to felt recoil, barrel length is important.
🤔 Ryan is progressing quite nicely and finally realizing that he doesn't need a 338 Magnum or 300 Weatherby Magnum to hunt out West! YOU ARE CORRECT SIR! The "Future" is shorter barrels, monolithic bullets, 1x6 power scopes (Sorry Mark 😂), efficient "short fat cartridges", and Toyota Tacoma's! 🤣 Mabey, Ryan can buy a truck in burnt orange, to match his gun? 🤪
20inches will always reign supreme.
243 with factory 20" barrel is my go to hunting rifle.
Hearing about the difference in velocity between the 16” and 20” barrels made me feel good about decision the build a 16” AR-10.
I set up my ar10s so that if I want a heavy rifle I take the 20 inch bull barrel and if I don't need a heavy rifle I'll take the 16" pencil barrel. Having both is the way to do it. So much firepower in both.
That Tikka in orange! is a beautiful rifle.
Lucky gunner did this exact setup several years ago on their channel with a Tikka. Glad this is catching on these days.
25:15 Barnes has free load data for 18” 308. (Actually 7.62 NATO but still a great starting point, if you’re using their bullets).
Agreed.
Thanks PianoMan! I have several 308 Winchester rifles with 18-18.5” barrels and really like the Barnes bullets.
Tikka responded. They now make a 'Ranch' model in the T3x Roughtech line that's 16" and threaded. 308, 223, and 350 Legend. My 223 shoots half minute groups with the factory ammo I've run through it, impressive.
My wife just purchased an outback and loves it. Rides great and has a lot of room in it. Get one. Plus they grt good gas mileage
Interesting stuff! I've just joined the shooting world in the UK (yes, we do have one) and this topic is a whole thing i've never thought about. This is a very interesting way of looking at things. I'm enjoying the channel too.
I have the 20" Tikka T3X CTR SS Chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor and I absolutely love it. Im not an avid hunter and have a lot more handgun experience than rifles other than a .22lr takedown. I have shot it 4 times and the biggest group I have shot was a .79 5 shot group with Sellior & Belloit. When I shhot the 140 gr Hornady ELD-M or the Norma 140gr Match ammot it shoots .49 5 shot groups consistantly. Folks Tikka has figured something out that most people have to pay a lot more to get accuracy wise. The Bolt action is smoother than any other action I have personally felt. The trigger is adjustable down to 2lbs from factory and for $10 + shipping adding a YO DAVE trigger spring gets it down to 1lbs and some have even gotten under. The only complaint I would say I would like addressed is cocking the bolt is a little tough like it has a cam over. But its not a custom action so I would suspect it is like that for the hunting aspect. Either way they guarantee 1 moa on all their rifles.
That's why I love my Ruger Composite Scout.
I've been trying to figure this out for the last few weeks, this is perfect.
I love that orange blaze furniture on that Tikka. The Canadian Rangers rifle is an orange laminate Tikka.
But sorry, I really hope this short barrel thing does not become the new trend. If hunting in forest maybe but not on the plains. I have a 20" 9.3x62 tikka for woods hunting but currently looking for a 26" 22-250 for the plains.
Some companies like Federal and Hornady even offer factory loaded options for shorter barrels. Federal Fusion is an excellent hunting bullet and they make a variant called MSR (modern sporting rifle) for use in AR platform rifles, with shorter barrels. That would probably be an excellent choice in these 308’s, if you didn’t want to hand load. Hornady makes their Black line of ammo, which is intended for AR’s…although the bullets they use aren’t necessarily hunting bullets.
I just bought a 20" 270 barrel. Love it versus a longer, heavier barrel.
Im having a 20 inch barrel put on my 300 wsm. The way i see it is in a hunting rifle that you use to spot and stalk elk and deer etc a short rifle is far superior in my opinion compared to a long skinny barrel. Good video guys
How much powder would you be wasting In a magnum up a short barrel?
Cursive is a lost art by design, how many people without that skill can read the constitution and bill of rights, in its original form?
Why defend what you can’t read I’ve been warning people about this for years.
Cheers lads, Have you done an episode on factory Scout rifles like the Ruger Gunsite, Mossberg etc mounting scopes on them forward or rear and if it makes a difference or advantage over the factory (open sites)
338 Federal please.
Love your gun Ryan.
I have an 18" Ruger American Predator in 308 that fills that same role for me.
Thank you for “reasonably” discussing differences between 308 and 6.5cr; I have no issues with 6.5cr, but it is not the best thing since sliced bread. It doesn’t provide me any advantages in the ranges I am (and can) going to engage. If I ever dip my toe in the long range steel game, then absolutely the 6.5cr would be near the top of my list.
I have hunted whitetail deer with my Sandman Ti for many years now and it is a great hunting suppressor. Looks great on that short barrel rifle.
Marlin 1895 Trapper with a Witt Machine Mod.1 .458 can. Only adds about 4.5” to the barrel length. Combine with a 525 gr. WFN at 1050 fps or 1600 fps. I know how much Ryan loves the .45-70!
BL(c)-2 always worked well for me in 308 and lighter bullets.
Mine 16" 130 ttsx 3054 AV. SD 8 with 54.9gr w748. VERY compressed load at Barnes book max and and 1mm from overflowing case mouth
Could we have a podcast on “thumper” cartridges and rifles. I’ve always wanted a thumper rifle.
In Canada we are allowed short barrel rifles but the overall length has to be over 26” of the firearm but it has to be from factory if you cut it down it has to 18.5 inches or it becomes a restricted firearm if it’s restricted you can go no shorter then 4.25”
I’m in love with my Ruger gunsight scout rifle it’s seriously such a handy thing mine is a 308 Winchester but now they are making it in 350 legend and I think 450 bushmaster
Get a Svemko from Norway less than 12 ounces for their magnum version with a 1/4 turn mounting option.
Their small one for the 308 weighs sub 9 oz.
Titanium internals and Aluminum shell.
A bit on the expensive side, but a one in a lifetime purchase.
Will never give mine up
I've got Ruger 77 compacts with 16" bbls in 308, and 7mm08 another a 16" Gunsite scout 308 and a Hawkeye compact Magnum 20" 300 RCM. Never seen a disadvantage in on game performance with the short bbls vs my standard length bbl rifles within normal hunting ranges but they are much handier to carry especially in the brush.
I have been waiting for someone to do this. Thank you!
Pin the suppresser and cut it at 12
Out of my 18” 6.5 cd I chrono’d with different ammo and on average my rifle was shooting at 95% to 92% of the printed velocity on the box.
Ive got the ruger American in 243 go wild with the 16 inch barrel and really like it .
Yeah? I’ve considered the 6.5 in 16”.
The 2940 ft/s on the 130 Barnes factory ammo is crazy. Would love to know what powder they are using. Any powder I have modeled in tool would be over pressure spec at that speed
Yep, and he’s probably shooting over pressure. Common for reloaders to be over pressure, not having test equipment they base it off of pressure signs that don’t actually show up until we’ll above spec.
@@jaydunbar7538 that’s the thing, according to them the speeds were with the factory Barnes Vortex loads. I’ll check some more powders they have in the Barnes reloading manual tomorrow
W748 is best at Barnes max. I get 3050fps 16". Great load
The real question is why don't Americans have over barrel suppressors? Here in New Zealand we generally hunt with a suppressor that comes over the barrel so only say 6 to 8 inches protrude past the muzzle. It makes the rifle even shorter and handier to maneuver.
Because the ATF is milking us for money by adding tax stamps for suppressors
Wouldnt that fuck up the barrel harmonics?
Just to let you know Mdt did a 308 and a 22 long barrel test, so Ryan and Taylor were both right. Great pod cast again as always thanks.
😃 What do Mark, Short Barrels, and a Toyota Tacoma's all have in common (besides things that are small 🤭) - and besides Ryan too? THEY ARE ALL VERY PRACTICAL CHOICES! 🥳 Just Imagine one in a 300 wsm or 7mm prc Mark? 😜
What's really funny, to me, is that I happened to get an email reply from Tikka (for an email I sent earlier today) and went to their site and saw their RUclips video where they show the orange add-ons, which I've never seen before - and suddenly, here we are in this video - and I've watched a number of your videos thus far - just weird coincidence that I see THIS video today, with the orange Tikka add-ons at the same time - and now I'm starting to ramble... Edit - I am in Canada - suppressors are illegal here.
Take a look at Wyoming arms suppressor! Small light and effective! 4 CUBED STAINLESS STEEL SUPPRESSOR Would be sweet on those Tikkas!
Velocity SD will decrease as the barrel shortens. Load-to-load variations diminish as the barrel length is now not long enough to use any extra powder. Also, each cartridge has an “optimal” barrel length. The .308’s is about 20” so anything shorter than that will see improvements to velocity SD and anything after that will see diminishing returns in velocity with a hotter load. In a 16” barrel, you’re getting a consistent burn of the same amount of powder during the shorter dwell time. Longer dwell times allow larger impact on velocity.
You guys make the best 1-10 in the game, hands down. Can you please fix the reticle? The center of it is too course for bolt gun work, and it needs a death-donut or somethin to make 1x aiming better. It's SOOO close to perfect, just give it that last 10% please!!!
So this is November 3rd of 2024, I rebuilt my Thompson center venture over the course of the last 2 years. Stock barrel, stock action, stock trigger, and I had put on. I know you're going to hate me but Leopold 3 to 18x44 vx5 scope, I used to run 140 grain nozzle partitions. They were running around 2550 because I had two different 708 rifles I was using them, but means I rebuilt my gun. Plus I also put Leopold rings and bases, and went to CFE 223 powder with the Barnes TTSx bullet 140 grain, I'm one grain below Max powder charge according to their chart, My barrel is 20 in Long. It's like a mid weight barrel, and I'm getting 28.25 ft per second. No signs of pressure, nothing, and I believe I have shot in three deer with that so far and every one of them went straight down which two of them were headshots at 225 yd, I'm getting 1/2 inch -5/8 in groups