Being 74 years old and living in California for years, I was fortunate enough to purchase the FN-FAL from B&B gun shop the morning of what became worse bank robbery in North Hollywoods history. I paid 600 dollars back than for the gun and still have it.
I shot my first dear with the gun my Father had built for the 03 30-06 Springfield, was in the High Sierra Mountains and that was in 1964 when I was 14 years old. All my Life I’ve been fascinated by the designs of John Browning, from the Colt SAA , Colt New Service Double Action Revolver to the Colt 1911 45ACP . There hasn’t been a more duplicate Pistol manufactured than the Colt SAA and the Colt 1911 design. Beretta has built the finest semiautomatic 9mm Short- 380 Automatic design with the Model 70 which was made in the 32 ACP and the 22 caliber automatics.
Remember that store and morning well..I run the dd5v3 16” .308 and man it’s a good thing they didn’t use that hk91 more as it fires the 7.62 nato vs 5.56 dissapator and 7.62x39 ak. Which neither are weak but .308 much stouter..
H&K 91 - Had one years ago when I was in the Army. Sold it and have regretted it every since! That thing was a hardass beast. It fired everything, never had a malfunction and took a beating.
I personally prefer the Springfield Armory M1A SOCOM-16, I've put 2K NATO rounds and never jammed, never misfired or slamfired, it's incredibly accurate and the M1A imo has the best iron sights of any Semi-Automatic Rifle. Love how it feels, easy to take down to single components and put back together.
Yeah, the Socom 16 or the Socom 16 CQB would be very formidable rifles to use for duty. I'd probably do the CQB so that way I can attach a light and a laser, but that's just me. :)
5 years ago I went to every gun dealer in my area, none had an M1A. I purchsed a Dpms AR10. It's a good weapon, but not an M1A. Since I trained and carried an M14 in Vietnam I believed the M1A would be a great choice.
I bought my Springfield Scout Squad in early 2018, and LOVE IT. Reliable, accurate, simple and proven. I call it my "boom stick". My 5.56 is fun, but, for serious reach out and touch and destroy, the 7.62 M1 is my personal favorite and new it was $1675.
Unrelated to the video topic, but that woodland M65 Field jacket instantly sent me back to childhood camping trips spent tearing through those woods in my dad's old army jacket. I love those jackets!
Wanted a Scar, could afford the Tavor, I am extremely happy with it so far. It's got to be one of the more high speed/low drag battle rifles of the bunch, yes it's not quite as accurate as the Scar or nicer AR10s, but it makes up for it by being such a tight package and so easy to shoot well within 200 yards.
Indeed, the last chance for a peaceful turn was ruined by the cowards in the Supreme Court, the Presidency was stolen by DemocRATs and RINO's from Arizona to Georgia let it happen. What comes next is on them.
I went on gun broker and searched for one. I found one for $800 and thought, how is that expensive? Then I realized it already had 20 bids and 13 days left on the clock. 😂
I bought the Patriot Ordnance Factory gas piston. High quality, but the closer was the great factory support. I sent 1 gun in for an upgrade and they turned it around in one day… at no charge.
Want to share a personal experience (totally unrelated to this video). I purchased a Hornady gun safe late last year, and they have this rebate that will give me two boxes of their ammo. Sweet, till I realize I live in CA. Send in the rebate anyway, and provided the FFL's info. Got a call from Hornady today, they require a copy of the FFL in order to send the ammo, I was like, nah, too much trouble, no worries. But the lady offered to let me pick some merchant from their web store (up to similar value). WOW! With all the ammo shortage and everything else going on in the world, the Hornady customer service really amazed me. Just want to shoutout to Hornady, this is what a great company does.
Best rifle in my opinion. It did a great job at Falklands under extreme low temperatures and also in the Amazon rainning forest or Africa and Saara desert. it's a very robust rifle.
Good condition magazines for these are becoming extremely hard to come by and are now expensive, and new ones are basically non-existent (or don't function properly). SR25-compatible guns like the Tavor have a huge advantage in this area.
@@LuizSMatos-dr9tz in the Falkland war both sides used FAL, neither could use the others magazine. May not be a problem with a military supply system but a real problem for a civilian.
British Army during 1960s/'70s. L1A1 - Imperial Measurement version of Metric FN-FAL - was a very serviceable and reliable rifle, good enough for repeated hits at Half-a-Mile. I was Company Marksman and had a top cover which was fitted with a No.32 Telescopic Sight, as fitted to L42A1 British Sniper Rifle. Even with iron sights, 600 metres was well within range for repeated hits. My first choice for a Battle Rifle, despite its length. Easy to service and easy to clean and keep clean. I would also consider the FN Para-FAL with folding butt, despite shorter barrel and less accurate at extended range, but still good enough for reliable and repeated hits at 400 metres. As with everything in life, 'Better the Devil you Know' and 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'.
I have a para Fal made by DSA. Great rifle! I only have two complaints. It is extremely hard on brass bending the rim so it is very difficult to reload. It also doesn't suppress well. I have even custom machined a new gas key with a small port so I don't have to dump a lot out of the atmosphere and it's still pretty loud. It is extremely reliable and well designed.
Magpul, an American manufacturer of plastic magazines, grips, bipods, stocks, and so-on has a rather expensive, not-particularly "slender," but possibly quite USEFUL after market stock for the FN-FAL. Unlike the usual stock, the cheek is higher-up, allowing better, more comfortable use of optics, than what results from the downward "droop" of an ordinary FN-FAL stock's configuration. I have a friend who would have ME run his FN-FAL, with a large variety of loads, from magazines labeled with masking tape with the load printed onto it, both for Chronographic velocity testing, and for accuracy, to see which load the rifle "liked" best. One thing that I noted was that the FN-FAL didn't seem to have as much felt recoil as an M-14. I'd also noticed this about the FN SCAR-17, and I suspect that this may derive from the "brick-sized" bolt carriers being able to soak-up the recoil impulse.
Myself when it comes to using a 7.62 x 51 round I like the M!A/M14 after using a M1A for over 30+ years I'm not going to trade it for anything else. The M1A fits me like a glove and I never had one problem out of the rifle I couldn't tell you how many thousands of rounds my rifle has fired.
Agreed, David- I have 3 versions of the M1A and really love the platform. The 7.62x51 is a capable, well rounded cartridge with power to spare. I could not see myself putting $1800 into an SCAR.
M14 is a great cost effective rifle. It is a very effective brush rifle, and is almost as good in a close quarters situation as it is a hunting rifle. It’s sleek, nothing special, and easy to use.
A PTR91 is most people's best option. It's dead reliable, easy to service, has a decent selection of aftermarket parts, available for a reasonable price, has plentiful and still affordable magazines, decent sights (and the rail version that has a welded picatinny rail). It isn't perfect, but it is very good with only a handful of downsides that aren't ultimately that important.
@DV8 *** Comment was aimed at John Pierce who was suggesting getting a preban HK 91 which, as I'm sure you know, is far more expensive than the PTR 91.
It also weights roughly 3 metric tons, is longer than your average school bus, is a bitch to clean, and the earlier versions don't have rails for optics (And the original iron sights are rough). That said, you can drive over it with a tank and it'll still shoot. And it is a very fun rifle on the range. Sincerely: Someone who had to haul a G3 around during his military service.
I just finished my AK-308 Battle Rifle build that started its life as a Saiga 308-1 with the 21" barrel. I moved the front sight back and installed a 24×1.5 adapter to allow the use of a muzzle device. I also installed a modified and tuned FIME Group Enhanced FCG, and I tuned the gas system to allow for suppressed shooting and better accuracy. My AK-308 is extremely reliable and very accurate with minimal recoil.
Was looking for the Saiga comment. I have such a tendency to modify the saigas, finding a completely original unmodified one has made me want to keep the look and only work on internals.
@@200130769 true, but Saigas have chrome-lined barrels and are built on the same equipment since 1947. That reputation likely comes from the massive amount of unlicensed copies out there.
@@200130769not even close to being a correct statement. Neither of those are as reliable as an AK, in a battle rifle there's much more important qualities necessary than simply being accurate...
Morning Tim! For me it’s a tie between my FAL and my LMT. With the LMT being more accurate and having a great trigger, and the FAL being adjustable gas piston operated for harsh conditions. My two favorite .30 cal’s!
I got the LMT when the Royal Marines adopted it as a battle rifle. No regrets. Think they’ve moved on now but it’s a tank of a gun and far more accurate than my 61 year old eyes could hope to be.
Exactly what I was thinking, I'd take the FAL any day of the week if I'm going to grab a .308 conventional rifle. The Tavor-7 is my choice for a .308 "modern" rifle.
Great video. Thanks for posting. Personally, my favourite was the one I was issued by the British South Africa Police, now Zimbabwe Republic Police, which was an FN FAL. I did have a stoppage in the middle of a firefight where the cartridge must have had a weak spot at the head, causing it to sever at the groove. As a result the full casing was not ejected, and the next round was forced into the now headless spent case. Getting it out was not easy, but after 30 seconds or so I managed to clear it, and continued to fight. Back in the city I showed it to the armourer and he said he'd never seen that happen before. Even with the stoppage, the FAL remains my favourite.
You were lucky, being able to clear the stoppage under those conditions, then continue in the fight. I was SADF 74/75, radio operator/ COIN ops. Issued FN, fortunately never experienced stopages. Excellent weapon. My cousin from Plumbtree was in the RLI, also during the 70's. Was ambushed while in transit, more rounds up in the tree branches than in the vehicle, he sustained many injuries, mostly his face/jaw and spine. He survived. Sadly, his brother took an RPG to the chest, not much left of him. Yet another cousin on the farm was told of a ter down in the compound. He was a sharp shooter, took his rifle, saw the ter, emptied his magazine, missed every time. Was taken out with just one shot. My wife's uncle and aunt lost a son in Rhodesia. They moved down to SA and lost their youngest son serving in the SADF. We lost a number of family members, cousins, during the war.
“That muzzle device” on the SCAR is a Primary Weapon Systems (PWS, Idaho) FSC. They make great stuff, but don’t get much credit for it. Kinda a big deal when FN buys your parts as a factory offering.
I picked a dpms gen 2 recon when I decided to get away from 5.56 for a hunting rifle. At the time it was one of the first introductions of the small frame ar10s. And its served me well. If I get some extra money I may upgrade it
I had a toss up between the tavor 7 and gen 1 galil 16" in 308. Went with the galil (which is by far my current favorite rifle). Tavor 7 is definitely high on my list of wants though, I've been a tavor fan since the first iteration
I have owned several 308 rifles and I profoundly like the FAL over any other variation. The only manufacturer of them anymore is DSA. The recoil is much lower which may be due to their increased weight. I have an artificial shoulder thanks to my service in the Army. So recoil is profoundly important to me. Also I love the reliability of the FAL.
In the late eighties I was one of the sources for FAL parts and so forth. Loved the FAL. However, when it came to immediate action with a FAL I always found myself reaching for the op rod handle on the RIGHT side. As in M-14. I trained with the M14 and it was indelibly programmed into my brain. In 1965 the idiot stick my Sergeant laid on the side of my skull helped some too. ("Tighten up on them targets, boy"). Have a Garand now.
If you can get a genuine surplus Brit one in good condition they are the strongest and most reliable, I may be biased as I carried one for over years before the L85 came in..
G3 clones can be had for much less, easier to find, parts are signifcantly cheaper aswell, use the money saved for a spuhr stock and red dot with magnifier (assuming you get one with a top rail welded on like ptr)
@@bloodking73 Parts for the G3's are not easier to find in our area. FN mags and parts are all over the place around the world. I have seen G3 'clones' and parts not compatible with others. The FN STANAG scope is top quality. Goes back to battery with little effort when removed for safekeeping. 6 to one half dozen to the other....
@@bloodking73 the G3 is shit compared to the FN FAL, just because of muzzle velocity and rate of fire. Carried the FN between 1972 and 1984 on regular stints on the SWA/Namibia conflict.
Damn sure wouldn't be the first in line. My first BREN2 in x39 was a Jam - o- mattic. Only been able to put 180 rounds down range with the replacement. I don't trust it, the ejection pattern is still erratic.
I once talked to a guy who runs anti poaching operations somewhere in central africa what he told me was his go to rifle was an M1 garand. He said simply because it's a tough rugged rifle and no matter what you give it it fires (his words)
Interesting. I love my M1 but I've always heard careful what ammo you feed it. Supposedly most modern ammo is more powerful then m2 ball and could bend an op-rod. Its reliable enough but then again I'm not getting it that dirty sense its mainly just being used on a plinking day.
Personally I owned a demilitarized selective-fire G-3 in 7.62 and greatly appreciated it rugged reliability and low-cleaning requirements as it has no gas cylinder.
Many years ago, I was a young lad in the early 90's, absolutely infatuated with the Hk91. My pocket book preferred the Springfield EBO Sar-8 from Greece, ie, a poor man's Hk91. Best part was, 20 rd mags were $0.99/ea all day.
Same here. In the mid 80’s, about 13 YO, I remember calling HK and asking how much they cost; $460. Fast forward to 91, right before AWB I was going to buy one, but when I returned to the gun shop with $$, it was sold. Now I have s SAR-8. At least I finally got my fix.
I like my century arms .308 more than my ar10. That's the true poor man's h&k lol also have a winchester model 100 in .308, but that's not a battle rifle.
I used R1 / R2 (FN FAL)'s 1968 to 1984 and they never let me down. Gas setting on three and a half .. clean, maintained weapon (always .. coming back into base, water bottles refilled and then weapon seen to before anything else). Yes, there are more modern equivalents out there, but if no other option, I would settle for my R1 / R2 anytime.
Yip, thats what we used in the South African Defence Force. Deadly and reliable. R1 was the South African version of the .308 FAL. IMPROVED I MIGHT SAY.
Yeah buddy! I humped my 60 for better than 13 months, being the biggest dummy in the platoon...until a new dummy stepped up. It might not get you laid, but it will definitely get you out of a jam!!
I remember getting tagged to carry the M60 during PLDC. (Primary Leadership Development Course) Sergeant school. Those get heavy fast. I pulled a Tom Sawyer on one of the nice, but thicker guys. I let him carry it in a mock ambush. Then I went on and on about how good he was with it, and it was too bad he didn't have one. He almost begged me to carry it after that. Like we said in the Army, if you ain't cheating you ain't trying. 🤭
I have a relatively new production RFB 24 and keep waiting for it to do something, anything to make me fall out of love with it. It's accurate, more accurate than I can be given how little I take it to the range these days, it has virtually no recoil once you tune it to the ammo you run using the gas knob at the front, the trigger is just incredible, it's east to clean, once you learn the mag change drill for it, it's fast enough for anything practical, it uses FAL mags so you can get 30 round mags for cheap, I could go on and on. Plus, it's forward ejecting which is just awesome and cool and always fun.
Just remember the rifle weighs more and the ammo weighs more. I personally would go with a FAL because they're a proven rifle. Tons of choices there though. I might be more specific depending on mission per say. If I wanted more accuracy at longer range then I'd go with some other options.
@bali song I want a totally different system then . Dude the M1A is awesome for what it is not for what the new hy sped low drag fad is . M1A's are great weapons and they can be great allies . Ask lots of Vietnam veterans and Korean War era Marines and Soldiers. No you can't fit them in a fannypack and yes they have heft. Still would rather have an M1A than slingshot and I think the M1A likely runs more reliably than the SCAR . Why does no one mention how the SCAR was dropped with much less service time than the M1A ? Variants of the M1A are STILL serving ! They have drawbacks but hating on them is lame
I know they are heavy and old but I would not give up my FAL with its Halbek Device for anything. I know it is not as accurate as your selections and accessorise are not as wide spread but it suits me and my shooting preferences One of the less than dozen after market parts I have on it other than lights and opticts is a bolt lock that allows me to shoot "single action" which helps moa accuracy.
5.56 is an excellent "domestic use" cartridge. Everyone in the family unit / L.E. agency from the smallest statured member to the largest, non-shooters to "enthusiasts" can be taught to control it and hit reasonably well out to 100 yards. .308 is an outstanding military / enthusiast cartridge.
@@AntonAdelson I never said that. I have personally shot a lot of different weapons systems but if I’m more familiar with an AR-15 and would like a bigger caliber like the 308 for a battle rifle then I may lean towards the AR-10 instead of a Tavor type rifle.
For normal long range I invested in 300 WinMag. For long long range 50BMG. For fighting close AR10. For cheap fun AR15. I have store bought ammo and self-made including the bullets in all calibers and types.
I bought one of the PTR91’s back in 2015.It is an American Made HK91 or G3.I got the 18” Hvy Bbl. All parts are interchangeable w/HK and new mags were $7-$10.00. Bill Springfield in Colo Springs Co. does a PHENOMENAL job on the trigger.Offers an improved recoil buffer you can install and he can extend the safety.You won’t recognize your rifle after he does his magic.Mine will shoot 1.5” all day. They know have a welded picatinny on top for optics. I’m an M1A freak,have 2 of em,but the PTR was $1k compared to $1500.00,for the std. model or $2k for the Natl Match.
I'll take my Imbel FN/FAL into battle without a doubt. It will run any ammo including 50 year old Chilean milspec. Yes it is on the heavy side but it runs extremely fast with mild recoil. Mine is set up with a railed front handguard, SAW buttstock and will accept 30 rd. magazines from DSA. Only plastic is buttstock, pistol grip, magpul horizontal grip.
Well my service rifle in the Royal Marines was the FN FAL. I would love another but my base rifle started as a Springfield Saint Victor. I was not happy with it. Accuracy was 4” at 100. I changed out the barrel for a Faxon 20” heavy fluted. 3.5 Trigger, upgraded controls, 6-24 Vortex FFP scope with a red dot mounted on top. Added a bipod and vertical fire grip shoots sub 1” groups. Shoots really well. Tested it on 100 rounds rapid fire to see if heat would affect accuracy or feeding. No issues still sub 1” groups while hot. Yes I would love an FN Scar
Though I loved mine, no matter the ammo or mag, if the mag came in contect with the ground in any way, it would jam by double feed. Perfect otherwise, but I sold it!
The only thing that is keeping me from buying a scar is the price. I can build a very nice ar10 and a whole armor setup for the price of a scar with irons on it. Another thing is how finicky the scar is you can't really change anything other than the rail on a scar without having to tune it. Even upgrading the plastic hinge to metal can affect how it runs
@@oz5854 What's so difficult about cleaning the Tavor? • step one: push the buttpad button out to lower the pad • step two: pull out the bolt carrier/piston system from the rear • step three: spray some CLP all over and wipe it off • step four: reinsert and close the buttpad and button It's sooooo difficult.
5.56 is pretty good, if you avoid SS-109/M855, and you avoid excessively short barrels. 5.56 needs it's velocity and slight instability to perform as intended.
@@leiag201 It's very stable, and at 62 grains it goes somewhat slower than 55gr. M193. As a result, it rarely tumbles (which is the main route to high lethality for 5.56). Particularly out of shorter barrels which the military has moved towards. It's mild steel core and higher sectional density have less of an effect on hard armor penetration than the velocity you get at 55 gr with regular FMJ ammo. So it neither penetrates better, nor does as much damage on soft tissue. Basically, Belgium figured out a way to invent a less effective version of 5.56 mm NATO. And combined with shorter barrels for more handy CQB, it gives 5.56mm a bad rep for potency. I'd point out that i'm talking about SS-109/M855 (and NOT talking about "M855 A1"). The M855-A1 is a completely different bullet design, with a faster burn, about 100 fps more velocity than M855, and the exposed steel core in a solid copper bullet actually acts like both a penetrator and a copper hollow-point... so the lead-free A1 version is pretty effective stuff. The USMC also has a couple of effective 5.56mm variants. If you stick in the 16-20" barrel range, and use anything other than M855, then 5.56mm can be a fairly punchy cartridge for a main battle rifle. Velocity does translate to good lethality, as long as you don't use a bullet which punches clean 22 caliber holes with no tumbling or frangibility features. It's not as potent as 308 win (7.62 NATO), but it's target trauma can be surprisingly closer to 308 than it's recoil (accurate rate of fire) would allude to. 7.62 nato unfortunately does little more than punch 30 caliber holes... but at least it punches through a lot more barrier material, and 30 caliber is a bigger hole. I think 5.56 M93 or M855A1, out of a 16+ inch barrel, would compare very well with 7.62x51 NATO. In civilian use though, just put an expanding tip 308 in there, and it'll make quite a mess, and leave the 5.56 lagging way behind in trauma. Or if the military used a frangible 7.62 projectile (either way). But of military bulk ammo crates, 5.56 is really decent, in a full length gun, in anything other than M855/SS-109. It loses it's lethality quite a bit past around 300m though, as slower = less penetration and less deformation, which translates to not nearly as good at tumbling. If you're in big open spaces and use a scope, go 308 (or even 300 win-mag). If you use M855A1 (if you can find some on civilian market), then be sure to stick with magpul magazines. If the feed angle is slightly off, those exposed steel tips will eat up the aluminum feed ramp. Switching magazines was the military's easy fix, and helped reliability as icing.
M855 was made to penetrate cover and retain its mass, which 55 grain M193 has a hard time doing. 55 grain FMJ also shatter on impact with hard cover and even windshields. M193 in a 20 inch barrel is one hell of a round, but it suffered badly when the military switched to the M4. M855 is the better option in 16 inch and under barrels. But I'm a full blown 30 caliber battle rifle guy, so this debate only applies to my single 5.56 gun: A Mini 14 Ranch Tactical in an Archangel Sparta chassis. I am getting 1-1.5 MOA groups from factory Winchester Lake City M855, so its my go-to round.
@@shockwave6213 M855 really is more 'barrier agnostic' as they call it. That is true. Unfortunately, the same principals which make it barrier agnostic, make it somewhat 'target agnostic', in an unhelpful way. The most fundamental aspect of doing damage to a target, is successfully dumping energy into it, not conserving energy. M193 doesn't do bad on windshields. But glass does do pretty bad things to bullets because of the way it spreads surface tension across the pane before shattering. M855 goes through glass in a more straight line (less deflection), but they both suffer a big energy loss on the first impact to glass. A windshield will completely stop a 3" 12ga full of 00 buck. Once shattered though, glass loses it's superpower. A second shot of 12ga 00 buck will go right through it then. Basically I think you're right, it's just that I don't think 5.56x45 is a big enough cartridge to do barrier penetration 'and' lethality. m855-A1 really does kinda have it's cake and eat it too (good barrier agnosticism, and good frangibility in fluid target matter). But if I had to choose between 193 and 855 (with no A1 sauce), I'd go with 193, so it's at least lethal without barriers. As for body armor, speed is much more important than being more or less frangible. m193 is better than 855 on body armor (even the A1 variety). 22 caliber 'varmint' plastic tips go through body armor very well, if loaded into .308 (7.62x51) with discarding sabots (around 4000 fps). There are reasons for the military to shy away from discarding sabots though. They're very "hey, here i am!" in daylight. And sometimes they don't break away evenly and accuracy goes fubar. They don't work with cans either. But I do think if they want to defeat body armor, they should seek as much speed as possible without roasting barrels at an incredible rate. Which means fairly light projectiles and fairly long barrels with a lot of chrome in the bore. Only thing is long barrels aren't very CQB friendly. At long range, light projectiles will lose a lot of energy though, that's the trade-off. There isn't really a way to penetrate body armor at long range without going to 338 or 50, which really isn't CQB compatible. If I were the army, i'd have gone with .243 win (6x51mm), with a very light bullet for 6mm (say 60-65 grains). And spent all the research money on trying to figure out how to make a bullpup which defeats all the caveats of bullpup designs. I don't think the world has seen a 'great' bulpup yet. Lots of 'good~ish' ones, but no single design has dealt with all of the cons. But every 'con' of the bullpup design has been dealt with in one design or another, just not all together in one design (yet). Instead they went with a hot 6.8mm, which is effectively like a .270 win. Which 'could' be a good choice... but with a very short barrel and a 140 gr bullet, it's not going to defeat body armor. If they went with the bullpup for a 20" barrel, and they dropped the projectile to 100gr, it would be good at penetrating body armor though (out to a few hundred meters anyway). It'll certainly recoil more than 243 would though. Which regardless of skill, or training to ignore recoil, still affects the maximum rate of accurate fire. But their 6.8 at 140gr will be great for long range accuracy. I'll give it that. But yeah, I agree that m855 is good on barriers, it's just that it's ONLY good vs. barriers, hehe. Clean, narrow, 22 caliber holes with minimal energy transfer doesn't drop targets unless you have the luck to directly hit a vital organ, or hit a large bone and the bone assists in energy transfer & makes a mess. Same is true of m193 at longer ranges, but it more reliably makes a mess at closer ranges. I also agree that m193 becomes less impressive the shorter the barrel gets, I just think that applies equally to pretty much every cartridge. 193 tumbles/deforms pretty reliably out of a 16" barrel, but only at say 150 meters & closer. The 20" barrel pushes the tumbling lethality out to 250-300~ish meters. From 20 to 16 inches costs about 150-200 fps. If you can get a 5.56 to tumble it can do as much damage as a .308 (762 nato), because 308 generally doesn't tumble. Granted you could always change that with 308 ammo which doesn't follow the geneva convention. There's an argument to just abandon that convention. The shorter you get with barrel length, the more dire the velocity cost. 14" costs another 150 fps or so. It was designed to allow using a can, in the same length as a 16" with a bird-cage. But 14" just gimps any cartridge too much to be worth the 2 inches for cqb. Stuck with using FMJ, I don't think the military should have quit 45 ACP either. 9 is great with hollow points, but with FMJ it has the same problem m855 has. The Geneva convention is a really weird rule, seems to have the idea of "killing enemy combatants, gently", there's a lot of options which could work well without it. M193 with enough barrel length (velocity) flips off the geneva convention, which is what makes it so good. M855-A1 too.
A G3 every day of the week, heavy and clumsy, yes. But simple, easy to use and no strangeness. And HK's locking system is not as picky with different tolerances on ammunition as many other systems are. Plus it's the weapon I'm mainly trained on, and FNMAG, Swe-K, Mauser 6.5 swed.
@ Hringhorne Stularsson - Re: G3 in the Norwegian military. Hei, hvordan har du det? That's all the Norwegian I could find. I am half-Danish through my mom, but don't speak the language, unfortunately. I've always been curious why the countries of Northern Europe - including your own - chose the G3 over the FAL back during the Cold War. They're both good designs, but I wondered if there was something specific in why Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia all chose it? Cold-weather performance? Proximity to Germany? A better deal economically,in terms of production cost and licensing? I have heard, but can't confirm - that the G3 works really well in the cold, snow and ice. If true, that could be a reason.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 that's true the g3 is way more reliable than fal, it can work in -10 degrees or in the sahara, the only unreliable g3 was the mexican g3 wich was made with cheaper steel so as a result it could jam in any contact with whater but the normal one can fire after bein sumerged in whater if the ammo is dry just dont open the bolt when in contact with whater)
@@mguerrrero i got a Voyager model to try out and have had no issues with the ole girl. Been 100% since day 1. But i use surplus mags and not dsa mags also
@@DeWin157 let me guess, you’re a new gun owner that thinks 800 rounds is a lot of ammo well guess what for 22lr it’s not in fact it’s hardly a start, even my poor ass has a couple thousand rounds
I’ve been thinking about getting the Century Arms CETME C308. I’ve read pretty good things about them and they are very reasonably price..much more affordable than what he is showing off,I can’t afford these rifles..I can do $800-$1,000 max,I mean,it’s not like that is mere pocket change..lol..well,it’s certainly not for me anyway
@ Paul Dodd The CETME is a reliable and time-tested design, at least according to those who have used them in Spain or elsewhere in military service. However, the CETME-based parts guns being sold by Century Arms International here in the USA have had all sorts of problems. Primarily, quality ranges from excellent to quite poor. If you get a decent one, with surplus parts in good shape, put together by someone who knows how, you'll probably be happy with it. However, they are notorious for having issues with their sights, i.e., not being able to zero them point-of-aim equals point-of-impact. Part of the problem is what the design of the CETME sights themselves, which the Germans fixed on the G3/HK91. The Spanish rear sights are four rotating leaves, each of which has an aperture for a specific distance. No windage or elevation adjustment. In theory not bad, but since they didn't build in enough adjustment on the front sight, it often has problems. The front sight, which is where all of the adjustment for elevation/windage is done, is eccentric and rotates up/down and side-to-side to provide in theory, anyway, 4moa of windage adjustment plus elevation as well. In practice, this system doesn't lend itself to any great degree of precision. Even if you can get the iron sights to zero, at the recommended 200m battle zero, there are sometimes other issues with the CAI parts rifles. Such as mistimed barrels, receivers which aren't dimensionally square and throw off the sights, and so on. Last but not least, adjustment of the front sight assembly on a CETME requires a special sight tool, and good luck procuring one. Sometimes Sarco or Numrich have them, sometimes not - and CAI doesn't provide one with their rifles. Granted, problems with the OEM iron sights are minimized by the after-market attachment of a receiver-mounted P-rail, but that's what folks ran into when I used to work in the retail FA industry. The other problem is magazines. CETME rifle mags are required for CETME rifles. G3-pattern mags can sometimes work, but out of every 10 or so, expect 7-8 not to fit. G3 mags are plentiful and cheap; CETME mags are OK on price, but not all that easily-found. Some of the Century CETME parts guns take G3 mags, some do not. Depends whose pattern receiver was used, I think.... It's a real shame there are issues with these Century CETMEs, because they are historically-significant rifles and nice to look at with their wood furniture. Anyway, that's been my experience. A genuine PTR-91 will cost $200-400 more than a Century rifle, but they stand behind their products, which are manufactured off of old Steyr blueprints obtained from Austria when they discontinued their G3 production. Quality control there is substantially better than at Century. One note, though: PTR Industries subcontracts with CAI to make some of the lower-receiver parts for their rifles. Now, if we could just get PTR to make wood-stocked rifles again!
You can use G3/HK91 mags but you havee to work them with a Dremel tool. I have had good experience with the Century Arms rifle. I do acknowledge your issues. I just have never had those problems.
@@pauldodd2086 - Glad you have had a good experience. Those rifles are a screamingly good value if you happen to get a good one. I wasn't aware of the possibility of using a Dremel to make G3 mags work in a CETME, so thanks for the tip.
The tavor is my pick for .308 rifles to take to the fight as a universal platform that can do pretty much every job pretty well. IWI killed it with that platform
I lusted over one for years till 2015 and finally saved enough for one. Id reccomend a gir model with the paddle mag release and welded top rail for the option of easy sight options. But, go for what you want/can find. A Buddy of mine has a DSA FAL and another has a fulton armory m14, their mags are gold bricks, we all are happy but man I LOVE my ptr. Mags are usually super cheap, handguards and furniture are easy to find, steel are higher but the aluminum ones are nearly indestructible, and shes a tack driver. Also an absolute club to swing when out of rounds. Recoil is there but its more of a shake not a kick, brass goes into orbit, and it eats any 308 you put in it so if your stuck with cheap steelcase as the only option like right now, it eats it for breakfast. Good luck🤟🤟
@@jakeadair8292 would love to, here overseas it is costly to just get permit for a shotgun and bolt action rifle, need to do a lot of ipsc first with handgun and get 5 year permit with that and then find a club that deals with semi auto to even have a shot(Pun intended) at getting a g3 clone
@@techti8792 I didn't do any research on FN FALs for a while so I suggest checking/ finding an FN FAL forum for the latest info. However the last I heard DSA still made the best version. They are not cheap and they are hard to find. I personally will not trust anything with a Century Arms stamp on it. If you can still find the pre 89 version that were the original FN FAL they were likely the best but plan on parting with approx $5000.00+.
The weird forward and backward recoil happens on air rifles, but specifically on gas piston and coil spring break-barrel air rifles due to the piston or coil releasing. Interesting to learn that a piston driven firearm also does that. Makes sense. Cool.
I liked the video. When I saw the title I was expecting to get an opinion of how bad the 5.56 was and I'm glad it wasn't there. I think most logical thinkers can appreciate that the 5.56 doesn't have the power of a 30 cal round so it's really a pointless argument. I'm glad this was more of an intelligent review of a selection of 30 cal rifles and their good and bad. While I agree that 30 cal is a more powerful round and is definitely a better choice for longer range targets, there is still a place for the 5.56. Thanks for the great video, looking forward to more.
Thanks for saving me from having to watch this to see a stupid argument. I don't appreciate his clickbait title, which is a guaranteed way to get me to never watch their videos again. A 5.56 and .308 is an absurd comparison to make to begin with. The reality is 99% of shooters don't have the skill to fully utilize a .308. For the vast, vast majority of shooters, they'll never notice a difference between a .270, .308, or 30-06. What they will notice is the price difference for .308 ammo.
I love all 3 of these rifles, even though Tavor’s have felt small with my reach. I feel like we missed an opportunity by not also showing any of the M14/M1 clones or a G3 clone. All have loyally served/still serving in many armed forces.
Drop the Socom 16 (Short M1A) into the Archangel Collapsible Stock, add a Viper / Trijicon optic and you have an EXCELLENT .308 Battle Rifle!!! Proven design and very easy to deploy.
@@MC-td4ol Springfield Armory is not the same company it was and the rifles aren't really as good. Barrels are not chrome lined either. Ask anyone who has shot a M14/M1a much and they'll tell you which parts break.
As a deer hunter many moons ago, I only have a Browning BLR '71 in .308 and unfortunately no semi-auto rifles. I I have good semi -auto pistols and quality revolvers though to compliment my BLR. Good presentation that makes sense.
Maybe because Keltec is thinking about the "newer and younger" generations? We Millennials grew up around gameboy, PS1, PS2 Call of Duty, GTA, old ass PS2 shooting games and in these games they have old mix mash of guns. So as for us Millennials we like old school guns, new guns and modern guns. The newer Gen Z and newer Gen are into guns base off from today's FPS games.
@@SCH292 so only gen z like bullpups? Guess the guy in the video must identify as gen z seeing as how his number 1 choice is a tavor, one of those gen z rifles... maybe if you knew fuck all about rifles you'd understand a bullpup will beat out any other rifle any day of the week as a straight battle rifle.
Check out the C20. They still make some of the finest rifles but we’ll likely never see them unless they pull their heads out of their asses and start caring about their customers. I have a 901 and I’m sure if any part breaks I’ll never be able to find a replacement part.
Yeah, amazing, isn't it? I was in the Army in the 90's and a dedicated shooter. Back then, the AR wasn't as popular as it is today. I took a hiatus from owning and being knowledgeable of firearms. When my interest was renewed in 19', I was shocked that the AR was now the rifle of America.
Standard issue ammunition for the SCAR 17 is the Federal 130 grain Barrier round. How about doing a little more research next time around. I have some sealed cans of the 130 grain ammunition and and can provide more info if needed.
I just ordered all the components to assemble my first ar 10 in 308. I’m also trying bear creek arsenal for the first time as well because I really wanted a side charging upper. Great info as usual MAC and maybe I try the Tavor in the future.
@@jdubss1401 because ar-10 lowers or a lot different my Daniel Defense DDM5 is a true ar-10 pattern look at aero .308 lower and a knight sr-25 lower and you’ll see the difference between ar-10 or LR.308 that’s it
@@grezikpainting You're right, and it's good to know. However, I don't like this distinction. An AR-308 is really an AR-10. The fact that the cut is slightly different doesn't make it a different rifle.
I’m a 308 and 30/06 man myself. I’ve tried plenty of different calibers and brands but I found a 308 and 30/06 in mossberg and you can believe this or not and I don’t really care but I floated the barrels and the best brand and round they love and it Winchester silver ballistic tips. Me or my wife can drive tacks to four hundred yards. We can put five rounds cutting through the first hole or cut the first hole in half with the next four rounds and that’s hitting the center of the bulls eye hundred yard target 150 grain on 30/06 and 168 grain on the 308. I have them set one inch high at a hundred yards and I can’t bust a heart out to four hundred yards. I’ve proved it to more than one person over the years.
interesting choice, but for me SLR, used one back in the 80's, mud, rain, sand, beat the crap out of it, easy to clean and break down. Accurate, one of our lads in basic was popping man sized at 600 with iron sights. For hunting your choices are fine, for battle and durability, SLR. Just my thoughts.
@@jonathanhornbuilders Keep in mind, the ballistic difference between a 20” and a 16” in .308 is about 120fps. I went with the 16” and I’m really glad I did. It’s extremely light. I got a 2-7x Vortex scope, and an Aimpoint Duty RDS for it (not running them at the same time). I absolutely love it. Also consider getting a BFD by Indian Creek! Absolutely saved my ears and everyone else’s ears by the end of my rifle course. It was indoors and was quieter than the rest of the classes 5.56’s! 😂 Everyone including the instructor wanted to know what it was and was going to buy one, and the instructor said this was the nicest AR-10 he’s ever shot.
i've wanted an M1a for as long as i can recall. hard to pony up over $2k (minimum) for an 'older' design. boggles the mind as to why they're still so expensive.
Just got mine after waiting 5 months for it to arrive. Beautiful walnut stock. Added the bayonet lug and the M6 bayonet. Looks sweet!😎 Seriously accurate and hard hitting!
VietNam vet.....qualified on 7.62 M14 in '67. Spent the next 18 months behind a M30 in a Huey. So I"m pretty familiar with 7.62. While flying i also had a M1A carbine (.30 cal) and a Colt M16. I carried both a Colt 1911 .45 ACP and a S/W .38 revolver. The logic when flying during 1968 and 1969 was when you go down you have what ever you brought...nothing else. The advantage with the M16 was weight of both the weapon and the ammo. Now, at 67 yrs old...I opt for the lighter AR15 and a Glock 19. I no longer hunt bigger than varmits. for home defense use a 12ga. My wife carries a .38sp revolver. We feel we're comfortably protected. We practice with .22 just to keep sharp and because of the lower cost. We have a Rugger SR22 and 22-10 for the home range. Biggest concern going forward is the avail and cost of ammo. We have a 5' tall gun safe full to the top with ammo but there's no telling what the Gov will do in the future and/or what challenges will come as a result of the open boarders. Stay safe.
So if you are 67 years old (if comment was made in 2021) that means you were born in 1954. So you qualified in 1967 for Vietnam Nam at the age of 13. Explain please.
@@dimitristevanskov6778 if a patriot is an excellent marksman (like many of us are), we need a bullet that has the energy to do it's job at 300+ yards. The .308 is an excellent choice for that purpose, and the FN is an excellent choice for delivering that round.
@@madmaxd1if the mad meistro is talking to me, I'm an avid shooter, and there's not many guns - WORTHY OF BEING A GOOD BATTLE RIFLE - that I haven't shot. Your intelligence (or the lack of it) is showing(!), because how do you know what guns that a man has fired???? Lhhhh!
People are looking at all you gun tubers getting ammo selling paperweights , until we get ammo back to normal you guys are going to sink with all of us... unless your protected
IWI = trash Bullpups = trash I’d buy a VEPR 7.62 x 54 even with it selling at 2x+ it’s msrp due to Obama ban it still is less then a garbage IWI, vepr will always hold its value and oh yeah it’s top tier build quality not a piece of IWI garbage.
I am overdue to revisit the Tavor 7 again, but I experienced a great deal of ammo finickiness with it, which soured me. I expect a battle rifle to shoot whatever I can find.
I recently had multiple malfunctions with my IWI Tavor 7 that could not be fixed in the field. I have sent it in for repair, but I would never again trust my life to it. Not a chance.
1:39 Colt 901
8:10 FN SCAR 17S
13:53 IWI Tavor 7
You're a gentleman and a scholar.
He is talking mainly about Indian army SIG ...they have Tabor already
Thanks. I like MAC but sometimes just want to know what the video contains before investing 20+ minutes
Lol ill take a POF REVOLUTION ANY DAY OVER THOSE TANKS
I'm old fashioned, and I like the M-14 and the old heavy BAR! Both tried and true!
Being 74 years old and living in California for years, I was fortunate enough to purchase the FN-FAL from B&B gun shop the morning of what became worse bank robbery in North Hollywoods history. I paid 600 dollars back than for the gun and still have it.
great gun, great price
You did damn good brother! Have one myself , wished it had better sights like M14.
I shot my first dear with the gun my Father had built for the 03 30-06 Springfield, was in the High Sierra Mountains and that was in 1964 when I was 14 years old. All my Life I’ve been fascinated by the designs of John Browning, from the Colt SAA , Colt New Service Double Action Revolver to the Colt 1911 45ACP . There hasn’t been a more duplicate Pistol manufactured than the Colt SAA and the Colt 1911 design. Beretta has built the finest semiautomatic 9mm Short- 380 Automatic design with the Model 70 which was made in the 32 ACP and the 22 caliber automatics.
How are you able to keep it? I thought that rifle would be banned in Cali. So you had a bullet button it? Or a fin on the pistol grip?
Remember that store and morning well..I run the dd5v3 16” .308 and man it’s a good thing they didn’t use that hk91 more as it fires the 7.62 nato vs 5.56 dissapator and 7.62x39 ak. Which neither are weak but .308 much stouter..
H&K 91 - Had one years ago when I was in the Army. Sold it and have regretted it every since! That thing was a hardass beast. It fired everything, never had a malfunction and took a beating.
The HK 91 sure does leave racing stripes on your spent brass though. That action is one reason it is so dependable. You gotta love it.
@@dangercloseprotocol thats 1 reason i dont want it...just chews up brass...love the gun though
I have a PTR G1 bought many years ago I love this gun Very accurate It’s heavy but gets the job done Great gun out to 400 yds with my scope
I personally prefer the Springfield Armory M1A SOCOM-16, I've put 2K NATO rounds and never jammed, never misfired or slamfired, it's incredibly accurate and the M1A imo has the best iron sights of any Semi-Automatic Rifle. Love how it feels, easy to take down to single components and put back together.
I have one also its a beautiful rifle
Yeah, the Socom 16 or the Socom 16 CQB would be very formidable rifles to use for duty. I'd probably do the CQB so that way I can attach a light and a laser, but that's just me. :)
@@zombieslayer7759 plenty of after market Stock Chassis's you can get that will do that.
5 years ago I went to every gun dealer in my area, none had an M1A. I purchsed a Dpms AR10. It's a good weapon, but not an M1A. Since I trained and carried an M14 in Vietnam I believed the M1A would be a great choice.
I have a M1A Tanker 16.25” dearly love it.
I bought my Springfield Scout Squad in early 2018, and LOVE IT. Reliable, accurate, simple and proven. I call it my "boom stick". My 5.56 is fun, but, for serious reach out and touch and destroy, the 7.62 M1 is my personal favorite and new it was $1675.
I’m not looking for a new gun I’m worried about never getting ammunition again.
national guard bases have lots of 556
Yeah because under Obama you had no Ammo.....Nobody is taking your guns, relax
@@cm1971it Joe Biden literally said he's going to go after "Assault Rifles"
@@franklindguccibelt6209 To mention nothing of the pile of anti-gun bills that have been pre-filed.
@@themidnightanimal1555 yep, and they’ll have both houses of Congress, as well.
Unrelated to the video topic, but that woodland M65 Field jacket instantly sent me back to childhood camping trips spent tearing through those woods in my dad's old army jacket. I love those jackets!
They are still available. Just pick the manufacturer carefully.
Yeah I still have mine too. For some reason though the left and right sides of the zipper are further apart than they used to be … who knows why?
@@nphare Darn refrigerator keeps shrinking my clothes too...😂😂😂
Wanted a Scar, could afford the Tavor, I am extremely happy with it so far. It's got to be one of the more high speed/low drag battle rifles of the bunch, yes it's not quite as accurate as the Scar or nicer AR10s, but it makes up for it by being such a tight package and so easy to shoot well within 200 yards.
I had not heard the Ugg boot thing before but now that's all I can see when looking at the scar.
yep, it happens to everyone when the revelation hits. That gun seems overrated imo
Oh you sweet summer child you....
A bunch of navy seals says ppl lost their life because of the scar and it jams like a mf
Dang, I thought everyone had heard that
You don’t get out much then...
WHATEVER CAN BE LIBERATED FROM THE ARMORY, THAT IS HOW IT WAS DONE IN YUGOSLAVIA,
This man gets it
Absolutely based
I can't like this enough. What a glorious comment
Indeed, the last chance for a peaceful turn was ruined by the cowards in the Supreme Court, the Presidency was stolen by DemocRATs and RINO's from Arizona to Georgia let it happen. What comes next is on them.
may soon apply to us here in U.S.A.
Describing the virtues of the Colt 901, is like describing the many uses of Unobtainium.
Guess he just didn't have an AR10 handy? Or wanted to show off?
I went on gun broker and searched for one. I found one for $800 and thought, how is that expensive? Then I realized it already had 20 bids and 13 days left on the clock. 😂
Yeah, all unicorn rifles, nonexistium potentium lol. Try getting parts, let alone the guns.
@@JamieR2077 why i dont watch this channel
@@Dakingsnake "bro you want your first .308 rifle? Here, buy a rare AR. lol"
I bought the Patriot Ordnance Factory gas piston. High quality, but the closer was the great factory support. I sent 1 gun in for an upgrade and they turned it around in one day… at no charge.
For over 50 years I have depended on my HK and never regretted it. It simply doesn’t get any better.
HK... ALL DAY!!
I'll take an M14 variant. I carried the M14 a lot during 2 tours in Iraq.
I like my 91, HK slap, and the telescoping stock, but the trigger and ergonomics on a AR-10 are so much better.
@@33Luger I have 3 ARs in different calibers 5.56mm, 6.8mm SPC & 7.62 NATO...they are very good rifles
@@aaronsanborn4291 Correct . An accurized M1- A can't be beat .
Want to share a personal experience (totally unrelated to this video). I purchased a Hornady gun safe late last year, and they have this rebate that will give me two boxes of their ammo. Sweet, till I realize I live in CA. Send in the rebate anyway, and provided the FFL's info. Got a call from Hornady today, they require a copy of the FFL in order to send the ammo, I was like, nah, too much trouble, no worries. But the lady offered to let me pick some merchant from their web store (up to similar value). WOW! With all the ammo shortage and everything else going on in the world, the Hornady customer service really amazed me. Just want to shoutout to Hornady, this is what a great company does.
@USA drink myself till I cannot remember it
And got the package like 2 or 3 days after the phone call! Nice range back~
Man, to me hands down the FAL. Believe or not it qualified to become our fighting rifle but US Army leadership at the time said no.
James Yeager agrees with you.
Best rifle in my opinion. It did a great job at Falklands under extreme low temperatures and also in the Amazon rainning forest or Africa and Saara desert. it's a very robust rifle.
Good condition magazines for these are becoming extremely hard to come by and are now expensive, and new ones are basically non-existent (or don't function properly). SR25-compatible guns like the Tavor have a huge advantage in this area.
@@LuizSMatos-dr9tz in the Falkland war both sides used FAL, neither could use the others magazine. May not be a problem with a military supply system but a real problem for a civilian.
@@johnalarcon5006 I believe so. British SLRs are on inches and FALs are on cms.
British Army during 1960s/'70s. L1A1 - Imperial Measurement version of Metric FN-FAL - was a very serviceable and reliable rifle, good enough for repeated hits at Half-a-Mile. I was Company Marksman and had a top cover which was fitted with a No.32 Telescopic Sight, as fitted to L42A1 British Sniper Rifle. Even with iron sights, 600 metres was well within range for repeated hits. My first choice for a Battle Rifle, despite its length. Easy to service and easy to clean and keep clean. I would also consider the FN Para-FAL with folding butt, despite shorter barrel and less accurate at extended range, but still good enough for reliable and repeated hits at 400 metres. As with everything in life, 'Better the Devil you Know' and 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'.
I have a para Fal made by DSA. Great rifle! I only have two complaints. It is extremely hard on brass bending the rim so it is very difficult to reload. It also doesn't suppress well. I have even custom machined a new gas key with a small port so I don't have to dump a lot out of the atmosphere and it's still pretty loud. It is extremely reliable and well designed.
Magpul, an American manufacturer of plastic magazines, grips, bipods, stocks, and so-on has a rather expensive, not-particularly "slender," but possibly quite USEFUL after market stock for the FN-FAL. Unlike the usual stock, the cheek is higher-up, allowing better, more comfortable use of optics, than what results from the downward "droop" of an ordinary FN-FAL stock's configuration.
I have a friend who would have ME run his FN-FAL, with a large variety of loads, from magazines labeled with masking tape with the load printed onto it, both for Chronographic velocity testing, and for accuracy, to see which load the rifle "liked" best. One thing that I noted was that the FN-FAL didn't seem to have as much felt recoil as an M-14. I'd also noticed this about the FN SCAR-17, and I suspect that this may derive from the "brick-sized" bolt carriers being able to soak-up the recoil impulse.
Always hilarious seeing comments like this, people are so full of 💩
Totally agree. The SLR was a gem.
Too damn heavy for my choice.
Myself when it comes to using a 7.62 x 51 round I like the M!A/M14 after using a M1A for over 30+ years I'm not going to trade it for anything else. The M1A fits me like a glove and I never had one problem out of the rifle I couldn't tell you how many thousands of rounds my rifle has fired.
I love my 556 Tavor, but I like how familiar with the AR platform after 24 years. Either way is a win.
Agreed, David- I have 3 versions of the M1A and really love the platform. The 7.62x51 is a capable, well rounded cartridge with power to spare. I could not see myself putting $1800 into an SCAR.
M14 is a great cost effective rifle. It is a very effective brush rifle, and is almost as good in a close quarters situation as it is a hunting rifle. It’s sleek, nothing special, and easy to use.
Th M1A with a sage ebr stock is like a hourglass shape bombshell
I just couldn't stop looking at the Boba Fett beanie and realized I was missing out on what was being talked about.
LOL I know, right!
A PTR91 is most people's best option. It's dead reliable, easy to service, has a decent selection of aftermarket parts, available for a reasonable price, has plentiful and still affordable magazines, decent sights (and the rail version that has a welded picatinny rail).
It isn't perfect, but it is very good with only a handful of downsides that aren't ultimately that important.
Just get the pre ban hk91
@@johnpierce4778 Except you give up the affordable part of the equation.
@DV8 *** Comment was aimed at John Pierce who was suggesting getting a preban HK 91 which, as I'm sure you know, is far more expensive than the PTR 91.
It also weights roughly 3 metric tons, is longer than your average school bus, is a bitch to clean, and the earlier versions don't have rails for optics (And the original iron sights are rough). That said, you can drive over it with a tank and it'll still shoot. And it is a very fun rifle on the range. Sincerely: Someone who had to haul a G3 around during his military service.
PTR is just down the road from me.
I just finished my AK-308 Battle Rifle build that started its life as a Saiga 308-1 with the 21" barrel. I moved the front sight back and installed a 24×1.5 adapter to allow the use of a muzzle device. I also installed a modified and tuned FIME Group Enhanced FCG, and I tuned the gas system to allow for suppressed shooting and better accuracy. My AK-308 is extremely reliable and very accurate with minimal recoil.
AK and generally russian weapons are trash inaccurate and heavy
Was looking for the Saiga comment. I have such a tendency to modify the saigas, finding a completely original unmodified one has made me want to keep the look and only work on internals.
Ar10 or m1a still more accurate and reliable. Ak's aren't really known for accuracy.
@@200130769 true, but Saigas have chrome-lined barrels and are built on the same equipment since 1947. That reputation likely comes from the massive amount of unlicensed copies out there.
@@200130769not even close to being a correct statement. Neither of those are as reliable as an AK, in a battle rifle there's much more important qualities necessary than simply being accurate...
Morning Tim!
For me it’s a tie between my FAL and my LMT. With the LMT being more accurate and having a great trigger, and the FAL being adjustable gas piston operated for harsh conditions. My two favorite .30 cal’s!
I got the LMT when the Royal Marines adopted it as a battle rifle. No regrets. Think they’ve moved on now but it’s a tank of a gun and far more accurate than my 61 year old eyes could hope to be.
FAL - carried one for a decade. Would happily go to war with one, even if there are more modern things out there.
Exactly what I was thinking, I'd take the FAL any day of the week if I'm going to grab a .308 conventional rifle. The Tavor-7 is my choice for a .308 "modern" rifle.
I'd have a FAL as well.
Now if only fals weren't 1200-1800
Fal 7.62 my fsvorite
A 7.62 to go to war with...
FAL. I did. It worked.
Great video. Thanks for posting. Personally, my favourite was the one I was issued by the British South Africa Police, now Zimbabwe Republic Police, which was an FN FAL. I did have a stoppage in the middle of a firefight where the cartridge must have had a weak spot at the head, causing it to sever at the groove. As a result the full casing was not ejected, and the next round was forced into the now headless spent case. Getting it out was not easy, but after 30 seconds or so I managed to clear it, and continued to fight. Back in the city I showed it to the armourer and he said he'd never seen that happen before. Even with the stoppage, the FAL remains my favourite.
You were lucky, being able to clear the stoppage under those conditions, then continue in the fight. I was SADF 74/75, radio operator/ COIN ops. Issued FN, fortunately never experienced stopages. Excellent weapon. My cousin from Plumbtree was in the RLI, also during the 70's. Was ambushed while in transit, more rounds up in the tree branches than in the vehicle, he sustained many injuries, mostly his face/jaw and spine. He survived. Sadly, his brother took an RPG to the chest, not much left of him. Yet another cousin on the farm was told of a ter down in the compound. He was a sharp shooter, took his rifle, saw the ter, emptied his magazine, missed every time. Was taken out with just one shot. My wife's uncle and aunt lost a son in Rhodesia. They moved down to SA and lost their youngest son serving in the SADF. We lost a number of family members, cousins, during the war.
I also have a PTR 91, M1A scout and a FAL on order. I will take good 308 over a 556 any day.
“That muzzle device” on the SCAR is a Primary Weapon Systems (PWS, Idaho) FSC. They make great stuff, but don’t get much credit for it. Kinda a big deal when FN buys your parts as a factory offering.
I picked a dpms gen 2 recon when I decided to get away from 5.56 for a hunting rifle. At the time it was one of the first introductions of the small frame ar10s. And its served me well. If I get some extra money I may upgrade it
I think your advice is the best I have heard. "Choose what's right for you." Well done and well said.
I had a toss up between the tavor 7 and gen 1 galil 16" in 308. Went with the galil (which is by far my current favorite rifle). Tavor 7 is definitely high on my list of wants though, I've been a tavor fan since the first iteration
Yea ! 300 lb wild hog shot down with one shot . Which means you have 19 rounds to go next one .
@@stephentraveler5291 24* more. 😄
I favor the Galil in 308 as well.
You tube hasn’t been suggesting your new stuff so I’m here to tell them that I want to see your stuff. Thanks
RUclips hates gun channels. Thanks for watching.
@@Militaryarmschannel same. I used to watch a lot of your videos and for the past 3 months you have been a ghost in my recommendations.
Enjoyed your program . First time I've seen you . My favorite rifles are my Remington 700 and the M14 I was issued in the Army .
M14 is great and shorter version used in military now ,socom14
I half expected a Robinson Armament XCR on the list, that one seems to intrigue me the most, personally
Love that rifle, definitely want one some day
How tf you comment 5 days before the video release
@@joshuagibson2520 Good cover. He almost saw through the matrix 😉
What makes it so special?
@@Archangel0804 it's badass. Like a scar but to reciprocating charge handle
I have owned several 308 rifles and I profoundly like the FAL over any other variation. The only manufacturer of them anymore is DSA. The recoil is much lower which may be due to their increased weight. I have an artificial shoulder thanks to my service in the Army. So recoil is profoundly important to me. Also I love the reliability of the FAL.
In the late eighties I was one of the sources for FAL parts and so forth. Loved the FAL. However, when it came to immediate action with a FAL I always found myself reaching for the op rod handle on the RIGHT side. As in M-14. I trained with the M14 and it was indelibly programmed into my brain. In 1965 the idiot stick my Sergeant laid on the side of my skull helped some too. ("Tighten up on them targets, boy"). Have a Garand now.
If you can get a genuine surplus Brit one in good condition they are the strongest and most reliable, I may be biased as I carried one for over years before the L85 came in..
I have always liked the FN-FAL in multiple configurations. TONS of parts available and battle tested for 50 years.
G3 clones can be had for much less, easier to find, parts are signifcantly cheaper aswell, use the money saved for a spuhr stock and red dot with magnifier (assuming you get one with a top rail welded on like ptr)
@@bloodking73 Parts for the G3's are not easier to find in our area. FN mags and parts are all over the place around the world. I have seen G3 'clones' and parts not compatible with others. The FN STANAG scope is top quality. Goes back to battery with little effort when removed for safekeeping. 6 to one half dozen to the other....
The Right Arm of the Free World
@@bloodking73 the G3 is shit compared to the FN FAL, just because of muzzle velocity and rate of fire. Carried the FN between 1972 and 1984 on regular stints on the SWA/Namibia conflict.
I watched hoping he'd include one in this video, but no, sadly. I'd be curious as to what he would have to say.
Too bad the CZ Bren BR couldn’t be a contender. I was hoping for a 2021 import but things dont look good...
Things really don't look good.....puts me in a horrible mood
I'd own that Bren if they'd bring it to the states. I have the Bren 5.56 carbine
@@easbreid9879
Youre not alone.
Same here... the CZ Bren 2 BR in 7.62x51 checks all my 30 cal rifle boxes.
Damn sure wouldn't be the first in line. My first BREN2 in x39 was a Jam - o- mattic. Only been able to put 180 rounds down range with the replacement. I don't trust it, the ejection pattern is still erratic.
I once talked to a guy who runs anti poaching operations somewhere in central africa what he told me was his go to rifle was an M1 garand. He said simply because it's a tough rugged rifle and no matter what you give it it fires (his words)
my first 308 , a m1a socom
I think I will pick up a scout sized model again one day
Introduce your friend to the AK
Interesting. I love my M1 but I've always heard careful what ammo you feed it. Supposedly most modern ammo is more powerful then m2 ball and could bend an op-rod.
Its reliable enough but then again I'm not getting it that dirty sense its mainly just being used on a plinking day.
I pefere the M1A, 20 round box magazine, and much easier to load and clear.
@@jungleno. probably a good choice and it would be easy to get in Africa but it also needs to stop animals
I would love to be able to own a FN FAL, the thing is like the Rolls Royce of battle rifles from the 1950's 60's era. Its just so beautiful!
You did a really great job with the various .308’s. Thanks - much appreciated!
Personally I owned a demilitarized selective-fire G-3 in 7.62 and greatly appreciated it rugged reliability and low-cleaning requirements as it has no gas cylinder.
H &K make good rifles
And no bolt hold at end of mag capacity
Roller delayed blowback for the win! 😉
Great weapons platforms 👌
Have you had any experience with the PTR91? It's a copy of the HK91, which of course is the civilian legal version of the G3.
Congrats on 13 years of outstanding content!
I will keep my H&K MR 308 with a 16.5” barrel and S&B PM II Scope. Retired in 1984 and still shooting matches.
That’s my rifle too, love it. Civilian 417!
LE901 is a great rifle. Problem is there are no spare parts available and Colt is not servicing them. Only reason I don’t shoot mine.
Colt turned its back on American gun owners. Colt can eat shit and die.
Many years ago, I was a young lad in the early 90's, absolutely infatuated with the Hk91. My pocket book preferred the Springfield EBO Sar-8 from Greece, ie, a poor man's Hk91. Best part was, 20 rd mags were $0.99/ea all day.
Mags are still pretty cheap about 3-5 bucks all day and are genuine HK mags
Same here. In the mid 80’s, about 13 YO, I remember calling HK and asking how much they cost; $460. Fast forward to 91, right before AWB I was going to buy one, but when I returned to the gun shop with $$, it was sold. Now I have s SAR-8. At least I finally got my fix.
Yeah, my HK91 is my .308 choice. Built like a tank. Reliable. Cheap mags are a bonus. The LOP is a bit goofy & long, but there are ways to solve that.
I like my century arms .308 more than my ar10. That's the true poor man's h&k lol also have a winchester model 100 in .308, but that's not a battle rifle.
SAR-8 is a fine battle rifle I've owned a few and never had any issues.
fav gun of all time HK91 :) used to love using those back in the day
I used R1 / R2 (FN FAL)'s 1968 to 1984 and they never let me down. Gas setting on three and a half .. clean, maintained weapon (always .. coming back into base, water bottles refilled and then weapon seen to before anything else).
Yes, there are more modern equivalents out there, but if no other option, I would settle for my R1 / R2 anytime.
Agreed. They threw us under the bus with the SA80.
Is that the South African version ?
Yip, thats what we used in the South African Defence Force. Deadly and reliable. R1 was the South African version of the .308 FAL. IMPROVED I MIGHT SAY.
@@Gerrardboss-v2g Rhodesia used it, too.
In 7.62 Nato, I used L1A1, AR10, and C1. I never had a problem with the L1A1, R1, or C1 or the AR in Brunia, others did.. The R1 was my preferred.
I’m with you on the Tavor 7. I’ve been salivating from a distance for awhile now...hope to get one later this year. Thanks for the review.
I have one and love it. Much better than my AR-10 imho
I remember when I got tagged to carry the M60, so awesome. Till I had to carry around said M60 Weight matters more than you think.
Mortar base plate has entered the conversation.
Mortar Base Plate Not Necessary
Yeah buddy! I humped my 60 for better than 13 months, being the biggest dummy in the platoon...until a new dummy stepped up. It might not get you laid, but it will definitely get you out of a jam!!
I remember getting tagged to carry the M60 during PLDC.
(Primary Leadership Development Course) Sergeant school.
Those get heavy fast. I pulled a Tom Sawyer on one of the nice, but thicker guys. I let him carry it in a mock ambush.
Then I went on and on about how good he was with it, and it was too bad he didn't have one. He almost begged me to carry it after that. Like we said in the Army, if you ain't cheating you ain't trying. 🤭
PIGS were awesome in their time, more like HOGS now.
I have a relatively new production RFB 24 and keep waiting for it to do something, anything to make me fall out of love with it. It's accurate, more accurate than I can be given how little I take it to the range these days, it has virtually no recoil once you tune it to the ammo you run using the gas knob at the front, the trigger is just incredible, it's east to clean, once you learn the mag change drill for it, it's fast enough for anything practical, it uses FAL mags so you can get 30 round mags for cheap, I could go on and on.
Plus, it's forward ejecting which is just awesome and cool and always fun.
I also have an RFB 24 with the elusive quad rail and once I got the gas dialed in and I agree with you.
Just remember the rifle weighs more and the ammo weighs more. I personally would go with a FAL because they're a proven rifle. Tons of choices there though. I might be more specific depending on mission per say. If I wanted more accuracy at longer range then I'd go with some other options.
Agreed! I have the POF revolution. A great gun and deadly accurate
I like my M1A. It goes boom and don't miss! What more can you ask for?
@bali song I want a totally different system then . Dude the M1A is awesome for what it is not for what the new hy sped low drag fad is .
M1A's are great weapons and they can be great allies . Ask lots of Vietnam veterans and Korean War era Marines and Soldiers.
No you can't fit them in a fannypack and yes they have heft.
Still would rather have an M1A than slingshot and I think the M1A likely runs more reliably than the SCAR .
Why does no one mention how the SCAR was dropped with much less service time than the M1A ?
Variants of the M1A are STILL serving !
They have drawbacks but hating on them is lame
I'm glad you all enjoy your M1A creations as much as I love my modded M1a
I know they are heavy and old but I would not give up my FAL with its Halbek Device for anything. I know it is not as accurate as your selections and accessorise are not as wide spread but it suits me and my shooting preferences One of the less than dozen after market parts I have on it other than lights and opticts is a bolt lock that allows me to shoot "single action" which helps moa accuracy.
Im with you there, ill take an L1A1 or Para Fn FAL over these new rifles any day of the week.
Some of these are very Accurate. Adjust the gas properly so ejection is optimal, work on the trigger. Excellent weapon that will rarely let you down.
Too heavy for most people but I'll stick with my Fulton Armory M14 target rifle....it is truly a Tack Driver
Definitely entering a new era when none of the original big 3 battle rifles made the cut.
If it wasn't for weight a FAL or G3 would be toward the top of my list.
You are reffing to the AR-10, FN FAL, and the CETME Model C/H&K G-3?
@@earlwyss520 I suspect those are the three.
@@earlwyss520 I think he's talking about the M14, FAL, and G3.
FAL, M14 and ???
5.56 is an excellent "domestic use" cartridge. Everyone in the family unit / L.E. agency from the smallest statured member to the largest, non-shooters to "enthusiasts" can be taught to control it and hit reasonably well out to 100 yards. .308 is an outstanding military / enthusiast cartridge.
.308 is an appalling military cartridge, should never have been adopted, and continues to be a ball and chain 67 years later.
5.56 looks bad when you take away everybody's rifle and give them a carbine and tell them to fight guys on a mountain a mile away.
@@agentoranj5858 What short action cartridge do you think the military should have adopted 67 years ago?
@@TheGM-20XX You're not going to hit them a mile away anyway; everybody won't be trained snipers.
@@agentoranj5858 I would choose 6.5x55 swede over 308. Its similar to 308 with a better BC and higher range of projectiles.
In the words of Paul Harrell: “go with what you know”.
Still tough to beat a .30-30 Lever action :D
Paul Harrell is a prophet on par with the Simpsons or NostraD
So what? Never learn anything new?
@@AntonAdelson I never said that. I have personally shot a lot of different weapons systems but if I’m more familiar with an AR-15 and would like a bigger caliber like the 308 for a battle rifle then I may lean towards the AR-10 instead of a Tavor type rifle.
If you have the chance to run a POF REVOLUTION DI I strongly suggest it.
For normal long range I invested in 300 WinMag. For long long range 50BMG. For fighting close AR10. For cheap fun AR15. I have store bought ammo and self-made including the bullets in all calibers and types.
I bought one of the PTR91’s back in 2015.It is an American Made HK91 or G3.I got the 18” Hvy Bbl.
All parts are interchangeable w/HK and new mags were $7-$10.00.
Bill Springfield in Colo Springs Co. does a PHENOMENAL job on the trigger.Offers an improved recoil buffer you can install and he can extend the safety.You won’t recognize your rifle after he does his magic.Mine will shoot 1.5” all day.
They know have a welded picatinny on top for optics.
I’m an M1A freak,have 2 of em,but the PTR was $1k compared to $1500.00,for the std. model or $2k for the Natl Match.
Have a PTR as well. Mags were $4. All new all German made. They are great rifles r sure
@@Sim_racer_40oz unparalleled reliability and accuracy but you cant reuse some of the brass. real smoothbrain statement
“You can’t find these rifles but this is my pick” 🤦🏻♂️
Its the nature of the beast all the best guns get sold out asap.
They aren't that difficult to find, but you will pay 3k-3500 for one.
Same guy said Century Golani's were bad..Idk how he keeps seeping into my feed.
Literally both my local gunshots have Sig 716’s. In fact, one store always has 1-2.
Build one man, that's what I'm doing right now
I'll take my Imbel FN/FAL into battle without a doubt. It will run any ammo including 50 year old Chilean milspec. Yes it is on the heavy side but it runs extremely fast with mild recoil. Mine is set up with a railed front handguard, SAW buttstock and will accept 30 rd. magazines from DSA. Only plastic is buttstock, pistol grip, magpul horizontal grip.
👎
Well my service rifle in the Royal Marines was the FN FAL. I would love another but my base rifle started as a Springfield Saint Victor. I was not happy with it. Accuracy was 4” at 100. I changed out the barrel for a Faxon 20” heavy fluted. 3.5 Trigger, upgraded controls, 6-24 Vortex FFP scope with a red dot mounted on top. Added a bipod and vertical fire grip shoots sub 1” groups. Shoots really well. Tested it on 100 rounds rapid fire to see if heat would affect accuracy or feeding. No issues still sub 1” groups while hot. Yes I would love an FN Scar
POF Revolution! Also, it was cool to see a big variety of rifles.
I got the beefier P-308 POF..love the thing
I own one and it's great.
POF Rogue. Sub 6lbs ❤️
@@surfingtothestars : will not last as long as the P308. Big Bangs take their toll on lighter weapons/alloys
Though I loved mine, no matter the ammo or mag, if the mag came in contect with the ground in any way, it would jam by double feed. Perfect otherwise, but I sold it!
The only thing that is keeping me from buying a scar is the price. I can build a very nice ar10 and a whole armor setup for the price of a scar with irons on it. Another thing is how finicky the scar is you can't really change anything other than the rail on a scar without having to tune it. Even upgrading the plastic hinge to metal can affect how it runs
That Tavor 7 setup is worth more than I paid for my truck
@@oz5854 What's so difficult about cleaning the Tavor?
• step one: push the buttpad button out to lower the pad
• step two: pull out the bolt carrier/piston system from the rear
• step three: spray some CLP all over and wipe it off
• step four: reinsert and close the buttpad and button
It's sooooo difficult.
Super easy to clean.
@@oz5854 Tavor's clean up in a quick minute? Have you ever broken one down? Super easy.
5.56 is pretty good, if you avoid SS-109/M855, and you avoid excessively short barrels.
5.56 needs it's velocity and slight instability to perform as intended.
what's wrong with M855?
@@leiag201 It's very stable, and at 62 grains it goes somewhat slower than 55gr. M193. As a result, it rarely tumbles (which is the main route to high lethality for 5.56). Particularly out of shorter barrels which the military has moved towards. It's mild steel core and higher sectional density have less of an effect on hard armor penetration than the velocity you get at 55 gr with regular FMJ ammo. So it neither penetrates better, nor does as much damage on soft tissue.
Basically, Belgium figured out a way to invent a less effective version of 5.56 mm NATO. And combined with shorter barrels for more handy CQB, it gives 5.56mm a bad rep for potency.
I'd point out that i'm talking about SS-109/M855 (and NOT talking about "M855 A1"). The M855-A1 is a completely different bullet design, with a faster burn, about 100 fps more velocity than M855, and the exposed steel core in a solid copper bullet actually acts like both a penetrator and a copper hollow-point... so the lead-free A1 version is pretty effective stuff. The USMC also has a couple of effective 5.56mm variants.
If you stick in the 16-20" barrel range, and use anything other than M855, then 5.56mm can be a fairly punchy cartridge for a main battle rifle. Velocity does translate to good lethality, as long as you don't use a bullet which punches clean 22 caliber holes with no tumbling or frangibility features.
It's not as potent as 308 win (7.62 NATO), but it's target trauma can be surprisingly closer to 308 than it's recoil (accurate rate of fire) would allude to. 7.62 nato unfortunately does little more than punch 30 caliber holes... but at least it punches through a lot more barrier material, and 30 caliber is a bigger hole. I think 5.56 M93 or M855A1, out of a 16+ inch barrel, would compare very well with 7.62x51 NATO.
In civilian use though, just put an expanding tip 308 in there, and it'll make quite a mess, and leave the 5.56 lagging way behind in trauma. Or if the military used a frangible 7.62 projectile (either way). But of military bulk ammo crates, 5.56 is really decent, in a full length gun, in anything other than M855/SS-109.
It loses it's lethality quite a bit past around 300m though, as slower = less penetration and less deformation, which translates to not nearly as good at tumbling.
If you're in big open spaces and use a scope, go 308 (or even 300 win-mag).
If you use M855A1 (if you can find some on civilian market), then be sure to stick with magpul magazines. If the feed angle is slightly off, those exposed steel tips will eat up the aluminum feed ramp. Switching magazines was the military's easy fix, and helped reliability as icing.
M855 was made to penetrate cover and retain its mass, which 55 grain M193 has a hard time doing. 55 grain FMJ also shatter on impact with hard cover and even windshields. M193 in a 20 inch barrel is one hell of a round, but it suffered badly when the military switched to the M4. M855 is the better option in 16 inch and under barrels. But I'm a full blown 30 caliber battle rifle guy, so this debate only applies to my single 5.56 gun: A Mini 14 Ranch Tactical in an Archangel Sparta chassis. I am getting 1-1.5 MOA groups from factory Winchester Lake City M855, so its my go-to round.
@@shockwave6213 M855 really is more 'barrier agnostic' as they call it. That is true. Unfortunately, the same principals which make it barrier agnostic, make it somewhat 'target agnostic', in an unhelpful way. The most fundamental aspect of doing damage to a target, is successfully dumping energy into it, not conserving energy.
M193 doesn't do bad on windshields. But glass does do pretty bad things to bullets because of the way it spreads surface tension across the pane before shattering. M855 goes through glass in a more straight line (less deflection), but they both suffer a big energy loss on the first impact to glass. A windshield will completely stop a 3" 12ga full of 00 buck. Once shattered though, glass loses it's superpower. A second shot of 12ga 00 buck will go right through it then.
Basically I think you're right, it's just that I don't think 5.56x45 is a big enough cartridge to do barrier penetration 'and' lethality.
m855-A1 really does kinda have it's cake and eat it too (good barrier agnosticism, and good frangibility in fluid target matter). But if I had to choose between 193 and 855 (with no A1 sauce), I'd go with 193, so it's at least lethal without barriers.
As for body armor, speed is much more important than being more or less frangible. m193 is better than 855 on body armor (even the A1 variety). 22 caliber 'varmint' plastic tips go through body armor very well, if loaded into .308 (7.62x51) with discarding sabots (around 4000 fps). There are reasons for the military to shy away from discarding sabots though. They're very "hey, here i am!" in daylight. And sometimes they don't break away evenly and accuracy goes fubar. They don't work with cans either.
But I do think if they want to defeat body armor, they should seek as much speed as possible without roasting barrels at an incredible rate. Which means fairly light projectiles and fairly long barrels with a lot of chrome in the bore. Only thing is long barrels aren't very CQB friendly. At long range, light projectiles will lose a lot of energy though, that's the trade-off. There isn't really a way to penetrate body armor at long range without going to 338 or 50, which really isn't CQB compatible.
If I were the army, i'd have gone with .243 win (6x51mm), with a very light bullet for 6mm (say 60-65 grains). And spent all the research money on trying to figure out how to make a bullpup which defeats all the caveats of bullpup designs. I don't think the world has seen a 'great' bulpup yet. Lots of 'good~ish' ones, but no single design has dealt with all of the cons. But every 'con' of the bullpup design has been dealt with in one design or another, just not all together in one design (yet).
Instead they went with a hot 6.8mm, which is effectively like a .270 win. Which 'could' be a good choice... but with a very short barrel and a 140 gr bullet, it's not going to defeat body armor. If they went with the bullpup for a 20" barrel, and they dropped the projectile to 100gr, it would be good at penetrating body armor though (out to a few hundred meters anyway). It'll certainly recoil more than 243 would though. Which regardless of skill, or training to ignore recoil, still affects the maximum rate of accurate fire.
But their 6.8 at 140gr will be great for long range accuracy. I'll give it that.
But yeah, I agree that m855 is good on barriers, it's just that it's ONLY good vs. barriers, hehe. Clean, narrow, 22 caliber holes with minimal energy transfer doesn't drop targets unless you have the luck to directly hit a vital organ, or hit a large bone and the bone assists in energy transfer & makes a mess. Same is true of m193 at longer ranges, but it more reliably makes a mess at closer ranges.
I also agree that m193 becomes less impressive the shorter the barrel gets, I just think that applies equally to pretty much every cartridge. 193 tumbles/deforms pretty reliably out of a 16" barrel, but only at say 150 meters & closer. The 20" barrel pushes the tumbling lethality out to 250-300~ish meters. From 20 to 16 inches costs about 150-200 fps. If you can get a 5.56 to tumble it can do as much damage as a .308 (762 nato), because 308 generally doesn't tumble. Granted you could always change that with 308 ammo which doesn't follow the geneva convention. There's an argument to just abandon that convention. The shorter you get with barrel length, the more dire the velocity cost. 14" costs another 150 fps or so. It was designed to allow using a can, in the same length as a 16" with a bird-cage. But 14" just gimps any cartridge too much to be worth the 2 inches for cqb.
Stuck with using FMJ, I don't think the military should have quit 45 ACP either. 9 is great with hollow points, but with FMJ it has the same problem m855 has. The Geneva convention is a really weird rule, seems to have the idea of "killing enemy combatants, gently", there's a lot of options which could work well without it. M193 with enough barrel length (velocity) flips off the geneva convention, which is what makes it so good. M855-A1 too.
Tell me you don't like Ar pistols w/o telling me you don't like Ar pistols
A G3 every day of the week, heavy and clumsy, yes. But simple, easy to use and no strangeness. And HK's locking system is not as picky with different tolerances on ammunition as many other systems are. Plus it's the weapon I'm mainly trained on, and FNMAG, Swe-K, Mauser 6.5 swed.
I was one of the first people in my platoon to qualify on the G3. Only a couple of us did. So, I can say I like it.
Clumsy wtf you talking about? You insert a mag and pull the charging handle. Nothing clumsy about it
@ Hringhorne Stularsson - Re: G3 in the Norwegian military.
Hei, hvordan har du det? That's all the Norwegian I could find. I am half-Danish through my mom, but don't speak the language, unfortunately.
I've always been curious why the countries of Northern Europe - including your own - chose the G3 over the FAL back during the Cold War. They're both good designs, but I wondered if there was something specific in why Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia all chose it? Cold-weather performance? Proximity to Germany? A better deal economically,in terms of production cost and licensing? I have heard, but can't confirm - that the G3 works really well in the cold, snow and ice. If true, that could be a reason.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 that's true the g3 is way more reliable than fal, it can work in -10 degrees or in the sahara, the only unreliable g3 was the mexican g3 wich was made with cheaper steel so as a result it could jam in any contact with whater but the normal one can fire after bein sumerged in whater if the ammo is dry just dont open the bolt when in contact with whater)
Love the Tavor-7! It’s my go to moose rifle! It’s great for pushing the bush or operating from an ATV.
No menton of a FAL? How dare you. You go stand outside and think about who you let down. Lol
Well tbh if it's a dsa it's probably not as good as other battle rifles
Thank you. My FN FAL served me well in Rhodesia. I can prove it - I'm still here!
@@mikesharp4033 Respect to you, sir.
@@mikesharp4033 The ultimate test really.
@@mguerrrero i got a Voyager model to try out and have had no issues with the ole girl. Been 100% since day 1. But i use surplus mags and not dsa mags also
2021 Pick: Ruger 10/22, because there's ammo
I have over 800 various rounds for my 10/22.
@@DeWin157 damn son only 800 rounds? Those are rookie numbers, got to bump up those numbers.
@@blakedavis2447 It's better than zero.
@@DeWin157 let me guess, you’re a new gun owner that thinks 800 rounds is a lot of ammo well guess what for 22lr it’s not in fact it’s hardly a start, even my poor ass has a couple thousand rounds
@@blakedavis2447 Get lost
The old CETME is a damn good rifle. Now sold as Century Arms C308. It was the precurser of the HK91/G3.
I’ve been thinking about getting the Century Arms CETME C308. I’ve read pretty good things about them and they are very reasonably price..much more affordable than what he is showing off,I can’t afford these rifles..I can do $800-$1,000 max,I mean,it’s not like that is mere pocket change..lol..well,it’s certainly not for me anyway
I would put my C308 up against any rifle out there although it is rather heavy.
@ Paul Dodd
The CETME is a reliable and time-tested design, at least according to those who have used them in Spain or elsewhere in military service. However, the CETME-based parts guns being sold by Century Arms International here in the USA have had all sorts of problems. Primarily, quality ranges from excellent to quite poor. If you get a decent one, with surplus parts in good shape, put together by someone who knows how, you'll probably be happy with it. However, they are notorious for having issues with their sights, i.e., not being able to zero them point-of-aim equals point-of-impact.
Part of the problem is what the design of the CETME sights themselves, which the Germans fixed on the G3/HK91. The Spanish rear sights are four rotating leaves, each of which has an aperture for a specific distance. No windage or elevation adjustment. In theory not bad, but since they didn't build in enough adjustment on the front sight, it often has problems. The front sight, which is where all of the adjustment for elevation/windage is done, is eccentric and rotates up/down and side-to-side to provide in theory, anyway, 4moa of windage adjustment plus elevation as well. In practice, this system doesn't lend itself to any great degree of precision.
Even if you can get the iron sights to zero, at the recommended 200m battle zero, there are sometimes other issues with the CAI parts rifles. Such as mistimed barrels, receivers which aren't dimensionally square and throw off the sights, and so on.
Last but not least, adjustment of the front sight assembly on a CETME requires a special sight tool, and good luck procuring one. Sometimes Sarco or Numrich have them, sometimes not - and CAI doesn't provide one with their rifles.
Granted, problems with the OEM iron sights are minimized by the after-market attachment of a receiver-mounted P-rail, but that's what folks ran into when I used to work in the retail FA industry.
The other problem is magazines. CETME rifle mags are required for CETME rifles. G3-pattern mags can sometimes work, but out of every 10 or so, expect 7-8 not to fit. G3 mags are plentiful and cheap; CETME mags are OK on price, but not all that easily-found. Some of the Century CETME parts guns take G3 mags, some do not. Depends whose pattern receiver was used, I think....
It's a real shame there are issues with these Century CETMEs, because they are historically-significant rifles and nice to look at with their wood furniture.
Anyway, that's been my experience. A genuine PTR-91 will cost $200-400 more than a Century rifle, but they stand behind their products, which are manufactured off of old Steyr blueprints obtained from Austria when they discontinued their G3 production. Quality control there is substantially better than at Century. One note, though: PTR Industries subcontracts with CAI to make some of the lower-receiver parts for their rifles. Now, if we could just get PTR to make wood-stocked rifles again!
You can use G3/HK91 mags but you havee to work them with a Dremel tool. I have had good experience with the Century Arms rifle. I do acknowledge your issues. I just have never had those problems.
@@pauldodd2086 - Glad you have had a good experience. Those rifles are a screamingly good value if you happen to get a good one. I wasn't aware of the possibility of using a Dremel to make G3 mags work in a CETME, so thanks for the tip.
The tavor is my pick for .308 rifles to take to the fight as a universal platform that can do pretty much every job pretty well. IWI killed it with that platform
I used the fn fal for 10 years as a regular army in a country far away that doesn’t exist anymore. It was an ideal weapon against 7.62*39
Which country ?
@@jnestor481 pretty sure they left that out purposely.
@@jnestor481 i think Rhodesia.
shutup
Would love to own a ptr91 or similar g3 clone, cheap, very durable and the free worlds ak, imo best choice
I lusted over one for years till 2015 and finally saved enough for one. Id reccomend a gir model with the paddle mag release and welded top rail for the option of easy sight options. But, go for what you want/can find. A Buddy of mine has a DSA FAL and another has a fulton armory m14, their mags are gold bricks, we all are happy but man I LOVE my ptr. Mags are usually super cheap, handguards and furniture are easy to find, steel are higher but the aluminum ones are nearly indestructible, and shes a tack driver. Also an absolute club to swing when out of rounds. Recoil is there but its more of a shake not a kick, brass goes into orbit, and it eats any 308 you put in it so if your stuck with cheap steelcase as the only option like right now, it eats it for breakfast. Good luck🤟🤟
@@jakeadair8292 would love to, here overseas it is costly to just get permit for a shotgun and bolt action rifle, need to do a lot of ipsc first with handgun and get 5 year permit with that and then find a club that deals with semi auto to even have a shot(Pun intended) at getting a g3 clone
@@ScanianDude thats scandalous. Im sorry man. Keep at it!!!
My pick for a .308 battle rifle; Fn Fal or the DSA clone. Looks like several other Commenters agree.
@@donovanchilton5817 FAL all day long!! Parts availability, 70 years of service, relatively simple to maintain.
I will keep my 1964 CETME. Bought for $275.00 in 1978
@@georgiobenelli4854 worth alot of money now
If I was going to get my 1st 308. Which one you recommend?
@@techti8792 I didn't do any research on FN FALs for a while so I suggest checking/ finding an FN FAL forum for the latest info. However the last I heard DSA still made the best version. They are not cheap and they are hard to find. I personally will not trust anything with a Century Arms stamp on it. If you can still find the pre 89 version that were the original FN FAL they were likely the best but plan on parting with approx $5000.00+.
I'm a crusty old fart and will carry an Aussie Lithgow licensed FN LAR/FAL/SLR to the ninth circle of hell.
cheers
Good on you mate!
Nice choice. 👍
The greatest battle rifle ever made. If the Americans adopted the FAL over the M14, the M16 would have never replaced it.
Great choice brah!
The weird forward and backward recoil happens on air rifles, but specifically on gas piston and coil spring break-barrel air rifles due to the piston or coil releasing. Interesting to learn that a piston driven firearm also does that. Makes sense. Cool.
Inch pattern Lithgow built SLR. Towed that thing all over Waiouru, weighed a ton, but a real pleasure to shoot, less so to clean.
I liked the video. When I saw the title I was expecting to get an opinion of how bad the 5.56 was and I'm glad it wasn't there. I think most logical thinkers can appreciate that the 5.56 doesn't have the power of a 30 cal round so it's really a pointless argument. I'm glad this was more of an intelligent review of a selection of 30 cal rifles and their good and bad. While I agree that 30 cal is a more powerful round and is definitely a better choice for longer range targets, there is still a place for the 5.56. Thanks for the great video, looking forward to more.
Thanks for saving me from having to watch this to see a stupid argument. I don't appreciate his clickbait title, which is a guaranteed way to get me to never watch their videos again. A 5.56 and .308 is an absurd comparison to make to begin with. The reality is 99% of shooters don't have the skill to fully utilize a .308. For the vast, vast majority of shooters, they'll never notice a difference between a .270, .308, or 30-06. What they will notice is the price difference for .308 ammo.
I love all 3 of these rifles, even though Tavor’s have felt small with my reach. I feel like we missed an opportunity by not also showing any of the M14/M1 clones or a G3 clone. All have loyally served/still serving in many armed forces.
Drop the Socom 16 (Short M1A) into the Archangel Collapsible Stock, add a Viper / Trijicon optic and you have an EXCELLENT .308 Battle Rifle!!! Proven design and very easy to deploy.
I carried an m14 in iraq. I loved it but I wouldnt trade my 308 ar for it
first time i've ever heard anything positive about the mk14
@@MC-td4ol Springfield Armory is not the same company it was and the rifles aren't really as good. Barrels are not chrome lined either. Ask anyone who has shot a M14/M1a much and they'll tell you which parts break.
As a deer hunter many moons ago, I only have a Browning BLR '71 in .308 and unfortunately no semi-auto rifles. I I have good semi -auto pistols and quality revolvers though to compliment my BLR. Good presentation that makes sense.
Keltec, the "Hold My Beer" gun maker - and in Florida too.
I swear they must play a lot of Halo....
Have you seen their new 5.7
@@SgtRudySmith31bRet Holy freaking cow
I love my keltec rfb, straight outta battlefield.
Maybe because Keltec is thinking about the "newer and younger" generations? We Millennials grew up around gameboy, PS1, PS2 Call of Duty, GTA, old ass PS2 shooting games and in these games they have old mix mash of guns. So as for us Millennials we like old school guns, new guns and modern guns. The newer Gen Z and newer Gen are into guns base off from today's FPS games.
@@SCH292 so only gen z like bullpups? Guess the guy in the video must identify as gen z seeing as how his number 1 choice is a tavor, one of those gen z rifles... maybe if you knew fuck all about rifles you'd understand a bullpup will beat out any other rifle any day of the week as a straight battle rifle.
I BOUGHT THE NEWEST PSA 308 RIFLE, 18 IN BARREL ADJUSTABLE GAS BLOCK...VERY ACCURATE SHOOTER, FINE RIFLE
Not sure why all CAPS was needed, however If your happy with what you have then there's no need to let anyone rain on your parade.
If it's as good a bargain as their PA 15 (where my first stimulus check went), I'll be keeping my eyes open for one.
nice! What'd that run you?
@@JamieR2077 I didn't mention my build, did you mean to @ me or the other guy?
I grew up in the 90s and remember Colt being the best there was. Miss those days.
Unfortunately , Colt did it to themselves. But I still buy Colts , so long as they are made before Colt started sub contracting out their work.
Check out the C20. They still make some of the finest rifles but we’ll likely never see them unless they pull their heads out of their asses and start caring about their customers. I have a 901 and I’m sure if any part breaks I’ll never be able to find a replacement part.
@@ballisticlt7452 yup. I love the Colts that were made by Colt , but these days it's like a madman is running the company.
Yeah, amazing, isn't it? I was in the Army in the 90's and a dedicated shooter. Back then, the AR wasn't as popular as it is today. I took a hiatus from owning and being knowledgeable of firearms. When my interest was renewed in 19', I was shocked that the AR was now the rifle of America.
My favorite knife is a colt. Colt pathfinder to be exact. Not the best steel but the way it fits your hands is magic.
Standard issue ammunition for the SCAR 17 is the Federal 130 grain Barrier round. How about doing a little more research next time around. I have some sealed cans of the 130 grain ammunition and and can provide more info if needed.
All I have is a Springfield M1A Standard. Sadlak mount and multiple scopes.
Nice. A friend mine has a SOCOM 16, and nothing but good things to say about it.
I am new to tactical shooting, and love my POF Revolution in .308. Although a bit heavier than my Windham Arms .223/556, it shoots just as easy.
I just ordered all the components to assemble my first ar 10 in 308. I’m also trying bear creek arsenal for the first time as well because I really wanted a side charging upper. Great info as usual MAC and maybe I try the Tavor in the future.
Technically your building a AR 308, not an AR 10.
@@grezikpainting how so?
@@jdubss1401 because ar-10 lowers or a lot different my Daniel Defense DDM5 is a true ar-10 pattern look at aero .308 lower and a knight sr-25 lower and you’ll see the difference between ar-10 or LR.308 that’s it
Once you fire a Tavor, you’ll never want to fire your AR15 again.
@@grezikpainting You're right, and it's good to know. However, I don't like this distinction. An AR-308 is really an AR-10. The fact that the cut is slightly different doesn't make it a different rifle.
I’m a 308 and 30/06 man myself. I’ve tried plenty of different calibers and brands but I found a 308 and 30/06 in mossberg and you can believe this or not and I don’t really care but I floated the barrels and the best brand and round they love and it Winchester silver ballistic tips. Me or my wife can drive tacks to four hundred yards. We can put five rounds cutting through the first hole or cut the first hole in half with the next four rounds and that’s hitting the center of the bulls eye hundred yard target 150 grain on 30/06 and 168 grain on the 308. I have them set one inch high at a hundred yards and I can’t bust a heart out to four hundred yards. I’ve proved it to more than one person over the years.
I've got a Century Arms R1A1. Not the best of the FAL commercial clones, but far better than having no 308 in the inventory.
I’ll take the FAL. Never let me down, with devastating stopping power.
DSA SA58 baby!
It also has great range.
With the 22 inch barrel fuck yeah!! 💪🏻
STG58 C! FAL, Right arm of the free world .
interesting choice, but for me SLR, used one back in the 80's, mud, rain, sand, beat the crap out of it, easy to clean and break down. Accurate, one of our lads in basic was popping man sized at 600 with iron sights. For hunting your choices are fine, for battle and durability, SLR. Just my thoughts.
I got the Ruger SFAR and it's incredible!
I’m thinking about getting the SFAR 20”. What kind of optic are you using?
@@jonathanhornbuilders Keep in mind, the ballistic difference between a 20” and a 16” in .308 is about 120fps. I went with the 16” and I’m really glad I did. It’s extremely light. I got a 2-7x Vortex scope, and an Aimpoint Duty RDS for it (not running them at the same time). I absolutely love it.
Also consider getting a BFD by Indian Creek! Absolutely saved my ears and everyone else’s ears by the end of my rifle course. It was indoors and was quieter than the rest of the classes 5.56’s! 😂 Everyone including the instructor wanted to know what it was and was going to buy one, and the instructor said this was the nicest AR-10 he’s ever shot.
@@jonathanhornbuilders Also, consider getting a H2 buffer tube! Helped a lot with recoil!
You are so right love mine two
Love my G3, Fal, and Galil Ace 1651 rifles.
I love have all of these and love them all but if shit got bad I'm gonna grab that FAL lol
Mine favorite is my PTR-91, it's my only .308 rifle....... But that automatic right flank covering fire is dope though......😁
I'll keep my M1A. Works every time.
I love my M1A Scout rifle! :)
i've wanted an M1a for as long as i can recall. hard to pony up over $2k (minimum) for an 'older' design. boggles the mind as to why they're still so expensive.
@@jedironin380 my "fear no evil" gun....and the prettiest in the safe.
Just got mine after waiting 5 months for it to arrive. Beautiful walnut stock. Added the bayonet lug and the M6 bayonet. Looks sweet!😎 Seriously accurate and hard hitting!
I have an older one. built in 82. Great shooter and ,probably, my favorite.
VietNam vet.....qualified on 7.62 M14 in '67. Spent the next 18 months behind a M30 in a Huey. So I"m pretty familiar with 7.62. While flying i also had a M1A carbine (.30 cal) and a Colt M16. I carried both a Colt 1911 .45 ACP and a S/W .38 revolver. The logic when flying during 1968 and 1969 was when you go down you have what ever you brought...nothing else. The advantage with the M16 was weight of both the weapon and the ammo. Now, at 67 yrs old...I opt for the lighter AR15 and a Glock 19. I no longer hunt bigger than varmits. for home defense use a 12ga. My wife carries a .38sp revolver. We feel we're comfortably protected. We practice with .22 just to keep sharp and because of the lower cost. We have a Rugger SR22 and 22-10 for the home range. Biggest concern going forward is the avail and cost of ammo. We have a 5' tall gun safe full to the top with ammo but there's no telling what the Gov will do in the future and/or what challenges will come as a result of the open boarders. Stay safe.
Oh stop. Borders aren’t open.
Do the contents of your skull rattle when you move about?@@AreU4Real1
@@Null4evaare you an ostrich
So if you are 67 years old (if comment was made in 2021) that means you were born in 1954. So you qualified in 1967 for Vietnam Nam at the age of 13. Explain please.
@@jewelhome1 he was a drummer boy 😆
my choice would be the FN fal because i like it.
Mine too! EXCELLENT CHOICE
@@davidearl1056 its an old rifle now but damn does it shoot fine
@@dimitristevanskov6778 if a patriot is an excellent marksman (like many of us are), we need a bullet that has the energy to do it's job at 300+ yards. The .308 is an excellent choice for that purpose, and the FN is an excellent choice for delivering that round.
@@davidearl1056 oh
@@madmaxd1if the mad meistro is talking to me, I'm an avid shooter, and there's not many guns - WORTHY OF BEING A GOOD BATTLE RIFLE - that I haven't shot. Your intelligence (or the lack of it) is showing(!), because how do you know what guns that a man has fired???? Lhhhh!
Thanks 🇺🇸
I lov your channel, don't get your ass banned/deleted
@The Trashman greatest ally?
People are looking at all you gun tubers getting ammo selling paperweights , until we get ammo back to normal you guys are going to sink with all of us... unless your protected
IWI = trash
Bullpups = trash
I’d buy a VEPR 7.62 x 54 even with it selling at 2x+ it’s msrp due to Obama ban it still is less then a garbage IWI, vepr will always hold its value and oh yeah it’s top tier build quality not a piece of IWI garbage.
Beretta 200 in 7.62 NATO
As a big man child I love the bang bang of a 308 😂
As a fellow big man child I concur!
Hahaha the Boba Fett ski cap is awesome!! Never tried a bullpup but I would love to own one at least long enought to see if I can get used to it.
Not all are created equal. Just never use the L85 /. SAE-80 British version. It's probably the worst battle rifle created.
I am overdue to revisit the Tavor 7 again, but I experienced a great deal of ammo finickiness with it, which soured me. I expect a battle rifle to shoot whatever I can find.
The Tavor is awful
I recently had multiple malfunctions with my IWI Tavor 7 that could not be fixed in the field. I have sent it in for repair, but I would never again trust my life to it. Not a chance.
Did you use steel?
@@InfinitelyQurious what ammo did you use?
Plus, it's gassy as hell.