Why AR10's suck - Ruger SFAR vs. DPMS GII - the original vs. the newcomer.
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- Опубликовано: 16 янв 2023
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We asked our viewers if they would like to see a comparison between the DPMS G2 and the Ruger SFAR. The DPMS GII was the leader in making a short action AR10, but did Ruger go a bit further? We take a look at a number of AR10's including the POF Revolution and talk about the differences.
#DPMS #ruger #sfar 
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MAC: “This is my rifle.”
My brain’s response: “This is my gun.”
"There are many like it, but this one is mine!"
If gun people really wanted to make anti gun lobbyists confused, just change the name of the ar platform to the sw(safe weapon) platform. Call it the sw15. It's very hard for people to lobby against safe guns.
I see what you are saying and makes some sense. But AR stands for Armalite, which you may already know but the liars in gun control that make propaganda purposefully lie in order to support their agenda and deceive the regular person. They will misslead with anything.
call it the female protection device so it can be labeled a protected species.
The only way is culture war, making the gun as usable as a cell phone became a usable complex computer for bimbos. 1 button and an app that does it all. Of course it has to be safe and somehow automated. Of course the mysoginistic fascist government does not want women and the disabled to get automated firearms.
It's a deadly weapon of war and that's exactly why I own one
That would be a real gotcha, IF these people cared one wit about safety beyond using it as a thinly veiled excuse for victim disarmament.
Hop did also point out that he personally knew several others who had no issues with their SFARs, and that he was sure Ruger would fix anything wrong with the one he had.
I feel like there may be some rivalry here! It also seemed like the MAC guys didn’t watch the full review from TFB… Hop did a great job reviewing that rifle given how jacked up it was and disclosed that it was of course a single sample and likely faulty, that all the other samples he was aware of did not have those problems and that Ruger would make it right.
He probably shouldn’t have posted that review until he was able to get another sample, or correct the issues with the one he had
but he’s gotta eat
@@peterwassam Yeah, it's one of those things where its SHOT Show time, all the guntubers are dropping SFAR content, so if TFBTV wanted to get decent views they needed to drop theirs too. By the time Ruger got the gun or the replacement parts shipped to Hop, the hype train would have left the station already.
@@peterwassam no, just bias. If this were a Sig product, and nobodies ran right, MAC would be making excuses for it and telling us to spend another $600 on third party parts to make the $2500-3000 gun work like it should have on day 1.
@@theKashConnoisseurSFAR cane out a while ago, shot show has nothing to do with sudden SFAR reviews
@@1014p Oh so it just so happens that 5 different guntube channels drop SFAR videos the week ShotShow starts?
I really like these types of comparison. It's one thing to say, "oh yeah, they tend to have different parts", and another to see them all actually compared.
The Galil is much more durable in 308
I went with the DD5 as a "no nonsense" .308 AR option a few years back and I absolutely love it. That said, the AR15 sized .308 ARs are so impressive to me as a hunting/Ranch rifle etc. I like where the industry is going with these and I hope more companies hop on board to make them even more durable, reliable, etc.
My dd5v3 stays under1” and made first round impact at 1000 dew wks ago. 16” barrel 178s@2140fps
I've been very happy with my Revolution DI, the DD5 is no joke though. Tack driver
Whats a good one for shtf? I have a badass 556 but I want one in 308.
But DD are statist bootlickera
@@user-km5kj8xh1x dd5v3 brother I’ve hand loaded for bout 1.5yr and have everything you can put on 1…1000yrdd with 16” .308
I have a SFAR 16" that I got at the end of November '22 for $960 and I am happy to say that it performs flawlessly - much like the first one you showed (without a can - on setting 3). When I saw the TFB video you mentioned where the SFAR failed over and over, I wasn't surprised to also see the gas block issues they pointed out as well. I can hold my hand around the gas block on mine without it getting burned or turning black.
Same here. My SFAR runs like a champ and no burnt hands. I'd call my gun a true MOA rifle. It likes lighter weight ammo better, so I loaded up some nosler 125gr ballistic tips, and it shoots close to the same hole. It shoots the Barnes 110gr TTSX well as well but the noslers take the win.
Yeah they clearly had a malfunctioning rifle, and then not recognizing that makes me doubt they know what they're doing
@@Cokecanninja, Hop from TFBTV specifically said he thought it was just a production flawed, 1-off, Friday afternoon gun.
You didn't watch the video, did you?
@@kingbaldwiniv5409 MACs viewership is definitely on the more tribal side of guntube - so no he didn't watch it fully.
Update, I just finished sighting in my 20” Ruger SFAR. I easily got sub MOA on my groups. The rifle does recoil more than I expected, but nothing too severe. I will gladly accept the little bit of higher recoil for great accuracy. The only thing I’m changing is the charging handle and the muzzle break. I am getting the ASR break so that I can attach my suppressor to it. Overall I’m super pleased with the performance and the price I paid for the rifle. 👍🏼
I bought a psa PA-10 and didnt have high expectations but it has been awesome. Perfectly reliable and very accurate. I've put around 1000rds through it so far with zero stoppages.
Same with my PSA 10.
I am going to get a PSA AR 10 in a couple of weeks. Still trying to figure out which barrel to get.
@@piedmontwildlifeandoutdoors Mine has the 20in heavy barrel but I have it set up for longer range target shooting. Recoil is almost nothing and stays on target well but it's a little heavy for carrying around. I've heard good things about the accuracy of the shorter, lighter barrels as well. Don't think you can go wrong.
@@mikepeterson2804 I have the PSA AR 15 and love it. If the world as we know it last till the second week of March then I will own the AR 10. Thanks.
I too have a PA 10 with 18" bbl, put a Magpul PRS Lite stock on it as the collapsable just didn't look right on such a large rifle. I run a Silencer Co Saker 762 on it with the gas setting at 8 clicks open from closed, runs flawless.
For anyone wanting to nerd out on what makes an ar-10 reliable, Small Arms Solutions goes into specifications, features, brands etc.
From what we've seen from the SFAR thus far I believe Ruger did an excellent job with this one. I always wait a year or two before purchasing a new firearm just in case there are any issues that need addressed but if all goes well I will likely purchase one.
Whether intentional or not early offerings of new guns render those same users beta testers for the manufacturer, to work out the kinks. So I too will wait a year or more to see if the SFAR will become universally reliable. Time will tell.
Good thinking
Grab it now. Updated gas regulator
Be sure to check your gas rings guys?
I had to get new rings from Ruger, because my rings got chewed up within 100 rounds.
I hopefully can get back out to the range soon to see how the new rings hold up against the original ones that it shipped with.
I will say Ruger's customer service was very courteous, helpful, and insightful. They also got the new rings to me within a week.
Now it is up to me to find the time to test it out again. Wish me luck!
GOOD LUCK, Please keep us informed. T.Y.
Lube your rings
If the bolt uses standard AR15 or AR10 gas rings you could always swap them out for the one piece, flat coil style gas rings. I like running those in all my ARs
I had a PA-10 (Gen 2) that was way over gassed (causing malfunctions). It’s gas’s rings were gone within 250 rounds. It had a one-piece ring with five coils. I have no idea where it was sourced. I replaced it with the conventional rings. It didn’t help. I tried heavier weight springs and buffers to no avail. I probably should have gotten an adjustable gas block, but I was over it.
If the rings are destroyed that fast I would suspect the bolt carrier is causing it, good luck
Interesting to see the dramatic change in the ejection pattern towards the end of the 3rd magazine with the Federal ammo.
I noticed that from 6 to 3 o'clock.
I saw that as well, I wonder if it was heat build up maybe.
I noticed it to It was all over the place..
I just want to say, the camera work during the range session was excellent. 👍
100+rds through my SFAR so far and loving it! I'll be back at the Range soon for more rds!
Mine didn't really like gas setting on 2, but was Flawless on 3!
Thanks for the comparison and displaying the chaotic array of various AR-10 buffer and bolt systems. I had no idea they were so helter-skelter across the different manufacturers, I would have thought they'd be more standardized like the AR-15 platform. I guess no one has figured out an "open standard" yet that tames the .308 beast.
none of the manufacturer want an "open standard", they were forced to standardize the 5.56 platform bec of military contracts, not customer demand
Having never owned an AR-10, I never thought that they would all be different. Great video.
TYVM for your videos, especially this one. I like to watch/listen to different views and opinions to make up my mind, and this video makes a lot of sense to me, both in terms of the pistol brace and of the 922R compliance issue. Thank you for sharing/spreading your wisdom.
I have an old Les Baer AR-10 that came with a 17.25" buffer spring. It was a single shot; the BCG couldn't go back far enough to eject the case and pick up a new one. I replaced it with a JPS 308 buffer spring and now it runs great.
I shot my new SFAR today for the first time. Cleaned and lubed beforehand. Shot Magtech 147 Gr. NATO, Red Army Steel Case 150 Gr., and Remington 150 Gr. Core-Lokt, and all ran flawlessly. Ran on gas setting 3 for first 50 rounds, then on setting 2 for remaining 40 rounds. 90 rounds total. It was very accurate and had amazingly low recoil. Optic was a Primary Arms SLx 3x MicroPrism. Very pleased with this setup.
Low recoil? What
the navy seals used to call the SR-25 "lightning" because it never hit the same spot twice. that stuck with me.
@@OFFICIALUND Oh boy, that's screwed up, however my rifle is as accurate as any bolt heavy barrel tactical rifle out there!!
I built a 308. I've exhausted everything. It's still not cycling. The system is too dependent on the gas system. And the balance is very important.
lol
@@wannabecarguy have you tried honing the chamber, then polishing. Also try switching to a flatwire spring and polish inside the buffer tube. Then lube.
Mr Stoner and Knights made substantial improvements to the SR25, the military can’t buy it do yo … military idiocy.
Little note- The guys at Aero told Lucas @ Trex that they don’t manufacture their own bolts, they contract those out of shop. Springfield might have the same supplier but not necessarily coming from Aero.
So who makes Aero Precision's BCGs?
@@railfanningpoints2.045 question of the year
Great comparison between 308 AR. And now You know that things are not the same inside.
The SFAR has been absolutely flawless. Remember, it ships with the gas block in setting 3, so no adjustment is needed out of the box. It's an amazing piece of kit.
My 20" " ripped the case rims on setting 3. Changed to 2 and no problems.
I’ve had the pleasure of owning a Revolution for over a year now with about 1k rounds through it (half suppressed) and I can’t imagine being able to improve on anything POF has done with this platform. Truly an incredible piece of engineering.
I'm with ya man my revolution is hands down my favorite rifle
Maybe if 85%+ of Rugers budget alternative work it will lower the POFs price by atleast $500... I understand why the rifle was expensive to begin with, but by now they've surely recouped the initial R&D and tooling setups, and have better margins with subcontractors... Although I'd say the Revolution is probably POFs biggest money maker, so maybe it has to keep all of POF balanced out by making large percentage profits 🤷♂️ If small frame .308 ARs become the next "red dot capable double stack 9mm micro pistols" for the AR manufacturers I guess we shall see alot of competition and price fluctuations 😄
@berryreading4809 you can pick up a Revolution for under 2500 now they have come down $500 in price. they use to be closer to $3k, now you can find them for $2400.
I was interested in the revolution at one point but heard nothing but problems from the owners on the FB groups. That turned me away from POF. Glad you're getting to enjoy yours.
piston or di? which u think better?
Back when i got into the AR-10 (15 YRS) the top 7 choices were ArmaLite, of course, DPMS, LWRC, Noveske, who used the ArmaLite pattern on some of their rifles as did LWRC, Daniel Defense and Knights Armament and last Rock Rivers...there was two standards, ArmaLite and DPMS...and RR was somewhere in between.
The S&W MP10 has been awesome for me.
For what it’s worth, mine functions flawlessly so far and I got it two weeks after they hit the market so it’s a first run sample which isn’t something I normally do. Rolled the dice on Ruger and I do not regret it.
I bought one back in November. Love it. Had a few issues initially, but they shook out as well by adjusting the gas. I do recommend checking the buffer. The roll pin in mine started backing out and I had to tap it back in. I have since replaced it with a Spikes h2 buffer. I can confirm it likes military weight ammo. Mine shoots best with 1982 Portuguese surplus.
People seem to wonder if the SFAR BCG will survive high round count. I'd like a follow up video at 5k rounds. Thanks !
I'll wait for the Ruger SFAR Gen II.
The AR10, given lack of parts compatibility, is just an advanced user platform. I’ve built a few AR10s and 100% had to get hands dirty and wrench on them. Both AR10s have superb accuracy and reliability, but this came at a price figuring out which parts work the hard way. In hindsight I probably could’ve bought a couple JP LRP 07s 😂
I have a JP LRP 07.... don't ever buy a jp it will ruin the ar platform for you. It feels and shoots like a high end tuned 1911 and makes my stags,colts,Springfields,ruger,aero and ect feel like a worn out glock.
@@joetapout I’m all about Gucci guns 😂 a JP or GAP10 is on my list.
I had an original AR 10 made in the 60s by the Dutch for use in the Sudan, with Arabic sight markings. It had been altered to semi auto but was easy to convert back. I was able to dig out the solder from the auto notch in the change lever with a pocket knife and got a M 16 auto sear that dropped right in. I wondered if it would work, coming from a 5.56mm but it did. I've got a photo of me firing it, barrel still nice and level, and 5 ejected cases visible in the air.
Great rifle!
Cool and now the alphabet agencies are coming by to check it out😂
@@chrisblack2330 They're too late, I sold it years ago!
Can I have it
@@chathao2833 Sorry, I sold it long ago.
Been looking at tavor 7,s
But hate the idea of a bull pup. I’m so glad I saw this video of the new Ruger. Came just in time for me. The work you do and the information you provide has become an integral part of my life, so thank you so very much for that.
My G2 is a love/hate relationship. It has an AR15 rifle length extension, extra extra strength Sprinco spring, a custom length rifle buffer, and a reduced buffer weight. With a lot of tinkering, adjustable gas block, and reduced cyclic mass, it’s now reliable and the softest shooting AR308 I’ve shot.
Great update! I’m feeling a lot more confident about buying the Ruger SFAR after seeing this!
Yeah, like I said before, my G2 Recon was a great rifle and accurate as hell. The reason I sold it was exactly because it was no longer parts supportable. I thought the G2 would become the IBM PC for all AR .308 patterns like the original DPMS 1st gen. Nope. It was replaced with a couple of Tavor 7's. Let's not forget the S&W M&P10 which came out around the same time and was billed as the same thing also. I chose the DPMS exactly because of S&W proprietary barrel nut ad such. The G2 was amazing at the time because it felt like an M4 with the weight and slight recoil. I sold a few guys on getting them also, they still hunt with them today.
Which parts did you need to replace?
@@forkthepork eventually all parts will need to be replaced. That's why most of us want to only buy guns that we can also buy replacement parts and have them sitting in a box ready to be used, well before any problem ever happens.
Good luck getting a replacement bolt for some of these proprietary guns like the SFAR for example. I want to buy a second cmmg RDB bolt carrier group just so I have a backup bolt. Which would require me to get another barrel too.
I still remember the hell of trying to get a gas tube for my smith and wesson ar10 after I wrecked the factory one putting on an aftermarket handguard.
Hows your comment from 2 days ago when the video been out for an hour? Just wondering if my phone glitching.
@@lancedooley7558 the matrix
Great video and great content! The title was a little misleading but still a great video. I got an SFAR this fall for hunting season and being my first AR-10 I was very impressed with its lightweight and function. It’s lighter than my 16” AR-15 chambered in 6.8 SPC. I did have some issues with excess gas in the chamber using a suppressor with the gas block on setting 3 and some cheap wolf ammo for break-in. After about a hundred rounds I cleaned it, set gas block to 1 and used some Winchester XP 150gr ammo with great results and sub-MOA grouping at 100 yds. Still a lot of gas in the chamber resulting in discoloration of the brass of the ammo in the mag but nothing that affects the operation. Very happy with this rifle and it’s my new go-to for everything! Once again great review like always!
Very informative. Great content. Keep up the great work.
I personally think the SFAR could easily be the next and greatest battle rifle. I can't wait to get mine. Also, I want to put one of those curved forend hand stops like Jason had on his rifle whilst you were shooting it.
Buy the POF Rogue instead. It costs a bit more, but is Toyota quality. The Ruger is cheaper, but is not in the same league of quality as the POF. If you keep your weapons long term, you won’t be sorry.
@@robertgoodrich8953 I'm just getting a regular AR and making it in .300 HAMR amd getting an AK.
@@ChargerusPrimeThe .300 HAM'R do be looking based.
@@georgewhitworth9742 it's more powerful than 7.62x39 and uses the same case as 5.56x45 so it'd be very easy to change over to that caliber froma military standpoint.
Does it have any drop tests?
Please compare the 16" to the 20" SFAR. Not only would it be interesting, but nobody on RUclips has reviewed the 20" version. I would like to know if the recoil is any lighter with the rifle-length system.
I have the 20" and love it!
It should be lighter. I have the Ruger MPR with a 16" mid length gas system. Think I'd want the 20" SFAR. They should do an 18" version also imo.
Hickok reviewed it
I have a 20. Only 75 rounds through it. I have some friends who are going to beat it up for next couple weeks while I'm working. Told them to run steel, brass, junk through it. Basically treat it like a shitty old ak and see what happens. I'll trying to keep you posted
Also might try PSA's little ks47 withshort barrel. I can't get it to fafail. Just got 16"upper for it. Going to see how that goes 😁. I figure almost still available and cheapish so wat the hell,burn it up.
I only have had one issue with a brand new Ruger. I contacted them by phone, they offered to pay shipping and repair the handgun or supply the part needed. The repair was extremely simple so I had them ship the part. I received the part in less than 5 business days!
Thanks for the in-depth review and the overview of AR-10 platforms. I really liked the SFAR until HOP at TFBTV had so many issues. Nice to see the two you have working well. Your working through the short stroke/feeding issue was very helpful not just for this firearm but in general. For the money it is very hard to beat and I am a Ruger fan since childhood. I m now willing to spend the money and buy one.
To be fair, only the last two (Aero and Springfield) were "standard" LR308s. Generally a DPMS pattern LR308 will be interchangeable, however the handguards and uppers may not perfectly match, unless they both come from the same manufacturer (just make sure both are either low or high). When it comes to improved LR308s (i.e. shortening the system), there is no standard because each company has their own patent; I'd be willing to bet companies who make DPMS Gen 2 pattern BCGs/bolts give royalties to DPMS, and the same would hold true if anyone made the short BCG/bolt from Ruger or POF.
Yeah I feel like he should’ve added a caveat to his claim “AR10s suck.” The older LR308 design is pretty well industry standard now, and they’re incredibly reliable. Aero, Ballistic Advantage, Wilson Combat, Palmetto all have interchangeable parts with their LR308s. Kinda surprised he didn’t explain that a little more
So you could say, it's working well SFAR.... 🤣
😂😂😂😂😂
Great video. Really appreciate that you bought a second one to test.
A long range SFAR video with the 20 inch barrel would be nice
I recommend the M&P Smith&Wesson AR10 308 if you're in the market for one. Reasonably priced , well built, consistently accurate, and very reliable . I wish I had it with me when I was deployed.
I have one. Consistent light primer strikes. Will take the bcg apart and clean it. If that doesn't fix it, I'll be talking to s&w.
@@matthewblumenthal804 define “consistent’? Have you ever cleaned it?
@@matthewblumenthal804 you may want to clean it and get a new firing pin and a spring if it happens to you frequently, check if it happens on the same type of ammo.
@@matthewblumenthal804 Interesting. I’ve only seen one other mention reliability issues but he had no lube on the BCG at all. Mine has been flawless, tbf though I’ve never used steel case ammo
Excellent weapon for the money in my opinion...not had one issue with my s&w AR 10
Aero doesn't make LR-308 BCGs. Lucas Botkin from T.REX Arms talked with their CEO and they source it from another OEM (Source: Aero 5K Rd video).
Mac great video. I bought a DPMS LR308 Before 2008 when their shop was a couple hours away. I pretty much "built" my rifle at the counter. Ahh the good old days. It's a tack driver for sure. When we tried to shoot it one handed like a pistol it did fail to feed a couple of times but that was the idiots behind the gun. Never had a failure using it right. My friend Little Bill got excellent hits a 800yrds. Me not so much but not from a lack of trying. It loves 168gr Sierra hollowpoint boat tails. One of my favorite guns. Shame what happened to DPMS, and many other smaller companies. Such is big corporate life.
Very cool! I guess I need one of those too. 4 years ago I built an Aero AR-10 using a Kreiger 20” service profile barrel and it’s at 14 pounds.
I have a DPMS LR308 from ~2007. Back then they were standard and DPMS was the the standard. The only issue with it was the really crappy magazine. I use Magpul mags and it runs flawlessly. I think the problems arrived when manufacturers tried to mix an AR-15 with an AR-10.
Hopefully the old obsolete long action ar10 pattern rifles will be phased out in favor of newer better made ar15 sized ar10's.
@@themorningstar4512 Maybe but I happen to like it the way Stoner basically designed it. It's heavier than an AR-15 but lighter than an M-14. A 7.62x51 bolt group should have more mass than an AR-15's. There is a reason I haven't had issues with the rifle.
@@mikevars8979 I just see it as another tool, if it gets improved upon over time then why not get the newer better version so long as it is proven of course. I would however much rather see improvement upon calibers like 300 blk out, 7.62x39 or 6.8 spc so that I don't have to have a full sized rifle.
DPMS has always been crap. Never the standard.
@@LosDoyerss actually it was the standard. The AR-10 platform was a mishmash of standards until DPMS standardized it. It wasn't always crap either but it has gone down hill since it's founder left a decade ago.
Excellent Review 👍 Interesting how it shot the lighter bullets more accurately. 130 grain solid copper's would be devastating on large game out to 400 yards. 147 grain NATO rounds are more than expectable. I'd like to see Ruger do a Custom Shop Carbon Fiber Barrel and handguard as well. Ruger hit it out of the park with this one.
Yes you should try some 130 Hornady soft point , loaded with 47 gr of H4895 shoots very accurate for me.more than good enough to hunt with or take out the bad guys😅😸👍
Awesome video brother!!! Thank you for sharing this with us!
Agreed, when I built my Aero M5 I found the information hard to come by. It became work in progress. The gas system was the hardest to get right. And of course adding a can made it even worse. Adding an adjustable gas block fixed everything, making it run great. Tough gun.
Can you share what your final build was? It can help me with my learning curve on my Aero build. Thanks
Yah I'm in my aero build and I came to that conclusion early after reviews like yours. Adjustable gas block is the only way with the ole .308
Aero isn’t the subcontractor for Springfield. Aero openly stated that they source their BCG’s from another shop. It came up in the video where their firing pin broke and extractor pin sheared into pieces.
Yep, aero is gimmicky trash
Thanks you for confirming my next purchase.. SFAR being so new to market, reviews +/- one never knows. I dig your channel. Thanks
Great vid. Very thorough and informative
i noticed a weird change in the ejection patters on Jason's SFAR towards the back end of the up gassed mag... rounds 13-20 all went different directions from the previous 13 that went pretty much straight backwards
would be intresting to see a 5k review given the lighter components
I've watched many of your videos and enjoyed them tremendously. I never signed up for Patreon before, but considered it for some time and I wanted to decide which of the many great creators can I support. I wish I could support all, but I chose you for the great content you provide. Happy to be a Battalion Commander member. I am also going to pull the trigger (no pun intended) on purchasing the SFAR.
I have an Aero Precision setup and I am very impressed with it. A friend shot a four shot group in one elongated hole at 100 yards. He pulled the 5th shot and still had a group of around 0.75”. This was with factory ammo. I am a big fan of this rifle. It is heavy though, but I am not a girly man. Working with a friend on his 6mm CM and waiting on the barrel to see how it works.
To be fair TFB had three and it was one that Hopp was making the video on that had issues. Still one out of three isn’t the best odds if there is indeed an issue.
Cool video. Very informative. Been looking to get an AR 10 or M14 type rifle for a while. I was looking at the Ruger, but may wind up going with something like a Springfield SOCOM II. Would love to have both someday.
Hop at TFB replaced the adjustable gas block on his SFAR and now functions very well. He professes to love it
I just love watching the spent brass bounce off of the deflector.
Still blows my mind that Colt let the whole market up for grabs. The 901 was great...just think if the US had gone with the FAL way back when we would be set today
The FAL is great. Too bad the parts kits dried up and now building one is ridiculously expensive. Lots of crappy builds out there too, and going for big money.
Me, I'm going to party with my sweet Metric like it is 1999. It cost me less to build back then than a cheap generic AR costs today.
Feeding is a little pricey but maybe someday surplus ammo will be a thing again. There is still a lot of it out there but the UN arms treaty pretty much ruined the milsurp ammo supply.
I've been happy with my SFAR, can't beat the price/weight point, it's pretty accurate, recoil is reasonable, a bit rough on brass like you'd expect with a light .308 AR, but an H buffer helped.
Informative in depth review. Thank you. Knowledge is power👍
great vid man. Those look fabulous. I'd love to see the saint victor vs the SFAR!
Suck being a weird word to describe a lack of standardization. That said thanks for doing the video. Looking forward to seeing other reviews and seeing if it makes sense to pick one up.
How else will he get views?
@@RockSolitude this
I don’t have a whole lot of rounds through my 20” SFAR but so far it won’t lock back with the included pmag or a Magpul drum. It also won’t cycle the drum unless it’s on gas setting 3. Hoping those kinks get worked out with more rounds. I love it though, pretty accurate.
Lube it up real good and run her hard. The problem with that is ammunition cost.
I don't like waiting for 100,200 or 500 rounds to " break in" a firearm. After a small round count you can see the contact/wear points on the moving parts. Careful lapping and polishing will greatly shorten the break in period. A ordinary but quality mineral based oil during break in seems to speed up the breaking in process. After breaking in the weapon I then switch to a more modern/synthetic lube.
Some have issues being under gassed. Sounds like you might have one of them.
I used 2 magpul 50 round drums, had no problems with lock back when the drum was spent. Only had one round jam, I am using Hornaday ammo 168 or better. Might try some other ammo eventually, but am happy with what I am using.
Thanks. Informative and well presented.
Picked up a Sig 716i recently and started building it out. Due to where I live I am stuck with 10 round mags, so going to .308 was more preferable, plus if any cataclysmic event occurred I would be in mostly wooded areas and would likely move north into more mountainous terrain where the .308 rifle would shine. The lightweight nature of these newer .308 rifles is very nice to have as most of the other options are either boutique rifles or legacy battle rifle's that weigh more, have less parts availability, as well as less accuracy.
As useful as 5.56 is, I still feel .308 will be extremely hard to unseat as the most versatile caliber in the US. Sans the urban centers .308 is better for most of the terrain as well as making a potent hunting cartridge and having the legs to reach out to decent ranges. Not to mention how ubiquitous it is as far as availability.
.308 is extremely overlooked and underappreciated from the perspective of practicality for the average American. It will stop a bad guy close, it will stop a bad guy far, it will put food on the table, and it is everywhere.
You live in china??
@@skipmitchell3200 The Rhode Island Communist Party certainly seems real
but that recoil.
I know that we all love the AR platform but if we’re comparing size, the tavor 7 (albeit chunky) with a 16 inch barrel is about 30 inches. Manual of arms is similar to the AR although getting through reloads takes time to learn. My $.02 because I’m an old fart that loves his M1a and tavor 7 equally 😊
Great video!! I also love your safety glasses!!
@17:20 you can see the direction the shells are ejecting has changed when you put the gas setting to 3. you typically want to see the shell going more rearward like that vs. coming more straight out to the side on the first few shots at the 2 setting.
This is why I like this channel. 👌🏻 excellent reviews.
Noticed the ejection pattern changed about halfway through the 2nd mag at gas setting 3… it went from ejecting at 4-5 o’clock to ejecting at 2-3 o’clock. Does that mean it was already breaking in, and over gassing? Or just getting hot?
Good vid. Best I’ve seen for while.
Went for the DMSP in 338 Federal and very happy with it
To be fair, the TFB guy did mention two of their other writers had their own evaluation guns which didn’t have reliability issues.
Based on the ejection pattern the Ruger is under gassed. I hope they fix that and they become the standard
Ruger gas adjustable block. Which setting was he running it on?
@@armynurseboy 2 and 3. From what I saw even 3 was under gassed. Your ejection pattern should be between 4 & 5 o'clock for good reliability.
Had my Ruger SFAR 16 inch for 5 months with almost 300 rounds through it with no issues what so ever all I did was put a H3 buffer and it runs flawlessly with gas port at 2 setting 💪🏽🔥
I now see why you love the Tavor 7. AR10s are so unstandardized, getting a unique firearm would literally be just like getting any other one. Parts compatibility isn't a thing so doesn't matter as much unlike AR15s.
Great video!
Many many years ago I decided to go the PTR 91 route for my X 51 rifle. Mostly because it was way more affordable. I love the rifle and it’s plenty accurate enough for me. Not to mention the 48 magazines I have for it. Almost went with a M&P 10 several years later but decided not too. This new Ruger really has me interested in possibly finally getting an AR-10 though. Will probably wait a while longer to make sure it is good to go. Very good video Mac.
Do it before you can’t get a SFAR for $1200, it’s amazing, highly recommend, my favorite gun purchase out of every gun I’ve bought.
PTR 91 is a great option! That would be my choice aswell
@@stavechurch9973 Well the SFAR is the more current .308 choice, hate to just argue with ya but the SFAR blows the PTR-91 out of the water. It’s a great gun sure, but the SFAR can use a bunch of AR parts, it’s what the people need.
@@mattandrews8528 it's also a new design unlike the g3
@@johna2008 - There's no contest in terms of ergonomics, either. The Ruger blows the PTR91 out of the water in that category, too.
Bought the DB10 from Diamondback (no gas adjuster that I'm aware of). It would fire but fail to chamber the next round. Had to pull the charging handle to load the next round, each time. Oiled up the carrier and it started working flawlessly.
Thanks for the work making this video.
I purchased a Smith & Wesson Performance Center 6.5 AR10 about 3-4 years ago. That rifle has been a treat to shoot, very accurate for a semi-auto and has ran flawless.
Just like how all AR-10s run. I am very sad to see this video full of lies saying AR-10s suck when if fact they are always much better guns than AR15s.
My Smith is in .308 and drives tacks and will always have a spot in the collection
Chris M Bear in mind Mac is very, very opinionated. He does great reviews, that being said, if he doesn't like "something" then it's not good to have and you should listen to him because "he's the gun man". Just like piston AR's he doesn't like the fact that they have better guns than the DI guns in the AR platform. So he doesn't like them so to say from watching some of his post. Many people have AR 10 with many rounds down range and have enjoyed them and they run.
@@arlissyoung8899 - I get that, got that from some of his videos. Just seemed like he was focused on the AR10's parts not being interchangeable like the mil-spec AR15 parts. I have a S&W 6.5 AR10, very accurate and it runs, never had any issues with it. The way I see it, if someone bashes a gun because of a bad experience, get a better more reliable gun.
@@chrism2042 He does really good videos all in all. I can see him lean a lot in some as to his likings. He is right, I have a Sig 716 308 and it's unlike any other. It's a piston gun for one and a lot of parts are Sig only.
I have a POF Edge AR10 and it’s a hefty rifle, especially with the monolith rail. The revolution is a totally different AR10 than the Edge and parts don’t interchange so even with the same company there are so many variations.
I purchased a new Robar NP3 coated POF P308 Gen4 Edge SPR over five years ago. Has run through every ammo and weather condition I've thrown at it, flawlessly, even bone dry/no lube.
Broke in at .6 moa with Fed GMM 168.
Anyone who thinks AR-10s suck own the WRONG AR-10s.
My SHTF safe grab rifle/pistol is the POF P308 SPR and HK Mark 23 w/suppressor, loaded with 45 Super ammo.
@@jamescampbell4334 Awesome! Thanks.
I just got the 20” SFAR, and I am looking forward to shooting it. I am changing the charging handle and will most likely change muzzle break to an ASR one. I want to try my 46m hybrid suppressor on it and see if I get any shift. I liked the review and I also watched the TFB one. I’m glad your rifles are working as they should be. 👍🏼
😂 I approve of your choice of "pointer" while explaining your shot placement and accuracy.
I would love to know how long that bolt lasts being that it has thinner walls where the locking lugs are located. That has been my biggest point of concern for this rifle.
Yep, that and the single bolt carrier key.
All of these 15 size AR10s I have the same concern. Plus more confusion on lack of standardization. Keeps me from pulling the trigger on a 450 bush, tho at half the pressure and slightly more rebated rim than 308.
Full size are a handful and overgassed till tuned most of the time. I had luck with a heavy buffer.
This whole design is a bad idea.
Ruger says they have some test SFAR's with over 10,000 rounds through them. Zero failures. That's what they say...I have no proof. 🤷♂️
I have a POF Rogue with about 1K rounds through it and it's ran like a champ the entire time. I have no concerns about the bolt since they use stronger material for the bolt than a standard AR15 bolt. POF also dovetails the carrier key into the carrier and uses a single bolt. I see no problem in that design...the SFAR remains to be seen. I use it for a hunting rifle and it's been a great one. Plenty of power with .308 and as light, or lighter, than many AR15s.
I had a DD5v1, no issues. Now have the POF Rouge and honestly, I thought it would have issues with a variety of ammo. To my surprise, my sample of one has been great. Recoil is not that bad for a 6lb 308 either.
Thank you.
@@pofusa Different caliber and platform but really enjoy my POF-415 Edge. Over 1,000 rounds in a year and only 2 malfunctions one of which may have been my fault.
Thank you for the video. I knew about the differences between an actual AR10 and an LR308, but I didn’t know about the differences in the bolt carriers. I didn’t really get into guns until I was 62. My very first (personally purchased and owned) AR style gun was the brand new Sig MCX. The gun was introduced at the 2015 Shot Show and I bought mine in March of 2016. It took several months and several trips back and forth to Sig before they got that gun right. Because of all the problems I had with my MCX I went to building all of my AR style guns. I guess I have just been really lucky in my three AR10 builds, because I have completely different bolt carriers and bolts, and springs and buffers in the three guns. They all work flawlessly. My success might be in building them all using the same Areo Precision M5 Receiver sets. Again, thank you for the video. It was extremely informative.
Great video. Thanks for the breakdown.
I have a S&W M&P 10, great rifle, very accurate, And an MDR by DT, But now after Tim showing this new Ruger, I gotta settle on a good "truck gun" This might be it. I love the .308 (7.62 x 51) cartridge. And I'm looking for a lighter all purpose semi auto rifle. I'm getting older now, so weight is an issue. I like the pairing of the PA 3X, thanks for sharing Tim
Curious why you need to move away from anything other than the M&P10? Does that not fit your purpose??
I noticed that the Fiocchi ammo was all ejecting it's brass consistently in the same direction, outboard past your right shoulder. The Federal ammo was ejecting its brass consistently when you first began firing that ammo, but then began ejecting it all over the place with the last several rounds of it. Did you notice that as well? Wonder what's up with the Federal ammo??
The ejection pattern moved forward as more rounds fired… typically ejecting forward means overgassed so my guess is that towards the end of the magazine all the contact surfaces between moving parts had started wearing in and everything started moving more freely. Basically by the end of the magazine there was less friction in the action than there was at the beginning of the magazine (due to the parts being more broken in) so the amount of gas needed to cycle the action was also reduced. The rifle needed the extra gas from setting 3 at the start of the magazine to overcome the extra friction, but towards the end of the magazine the extra gas was no longer needed since the action was operating more smoothly causing it to be overgassed. Could probably run another magazine or 2 through it to finish breaking it in then switch the gas block back to setting 2 and the rifle would function and the ejection pattern would return to normal.
@@curtmcbee2238 it would be interesting to see if you are correct, if MAC would retest the firearm and see what they come up with for this question on the ejection pattern.
I noticed as well, had to re watch to see. Constant rearward ejection, then on the last few ejections they were to the side, forward, side forward.
The Ruger just isn't as well made
You guys rock. Thanks for the info
Recieved my SFAR two weeks ago.... round & about 150 rounds through it (setting 3) & not a single hickup. I Looooove this rifle !
These are unobtanium at my LGS, going to have to order one in, Ruger can't make them fast enough. Great comparison and break down with some historical context - one of your best videos yet in this regard.
Mine just arrived. Close to 4 weeks on backorder. I'm very happy! 😁
I’ve had the Ruger SFAR since they were first introduced and functions great, on gas setting 2. 3 or 1 setting creates feeding problems with the 147 grain, Federal Lake City ammo. Great weapon by Ruger!!
I purchased the SFAR in January and mounted a PA scope on it. Because of the wonderful Alaskan weather I've only had opportunities to shoot at 100yd ranges. Even then all my results have been the same even as yours even in 0° - 15°F range and one day with blizzard conditions and still no issues. However I found that mine didn't like the 145's but shot the 147 and 150's vey well. I was very pleased that it liked 165/168's and even the 176 A-tip/178 ELD-x. Great rifle and compatible with most ar15 accessories.