honestly 2 month's severance in this type of industry is a huge relief- i was laid off an animation studio that gave me 1 month's severance, and that was incredibly generous given that no other studio really offers more than 2 weeks (if any, lbr). I hope the others are able to roll off into other jobs as quick as possible!
@OfficialRileyPlayz do not click this, it's not only a tracking link but the video isn't Ludwig, it's one of the scumbags that scams people for clicks (fake mr. beast pfp)
Stanz probably is still employed by Mogul Moves? I think? Or maybe he'll have time to stream more and we get more Stanz streams and he finally plays TimeGuessr again...
even tho i only worked for a couple events, offbrand was by far the best company i've ever worked with and i'm so sad it's gone under. i really hope i (and everyone else who was involved in offbrand productions) can work on similar projects in the future
I think the main thing is that unless you have a really inspired creator, there really never is any incentive whatsoever for streamers to do large events. I mean let's just be honest, streamers often put a lot of time into the streams themselves, but they do it with effectively zero prep at all. Most just hit the go live button and play the game they wanted to play, or talk about the thing that they want to talk about. I think Ludwig has too much faith in other streamers being as motivated to make fun, interesting, and bigger events. But sad to see it didn't pan out, cause the events Offbrand put on were cool.
Its also difficult because those motivated, creative streamers who would be in the market for working with Offbrand, would also be the exact motivated, creative streamers who would just create the event themselves yk
@silversalmon9909 the other issue is that most of those creators are probably gonna be smaller streamers, and like Ludwig said even his 30k viewers wasn't enough. Most people in this industry start getting comfortable once they get big, so it makes sense why they wouldn't be as interested in doing big events.
@@jellytwins1018 Yup, and if they did end up growing a lot from an event, then that growth satiates their desire to do more, assuming that that was their main motivation for doing the large event.
The best comparison here to me is Nebula's success. Nebula only works because there's a lot of RUclipsrs who want to do more than just that, and push their creative boundaries. The same is simply not true for streamers. The number of notable streamers pushing the envelope of what streamers can do is in the single digits.
Im in the restaurant industry which is brutal so i get it. Good restaurants run by competent people close every day. Sometimes it just wasnt in the works or its the right time. You learn from it and you develop your next project even better.
Theres a spot in my town that all the local people that have restraunts have tried to make work and since it's hidden behind other restraunts they all fail. Great food good environment and all have failed. Some places are just cursed
Same. There are big lessons to learn in any “failure”. Sometimes the cards just aren’t in your favor. Learn from it and do your best with the knowledge you gained on your next venture.
Sad to see offbrand getting shut down. But honestly nothing to do with ya’ll. I hope everyone is doing great and honestly I really like the transparency
Nothing to do with y’all? Definitely was their own doing but Ludwig still tried his best and that’s what counts. If you don’t adapt to the market then you won’t be able to live in it. Should have looked into what the viewers wanted and doubled down. Regardless I wish the employees and Ludwig the best on their future works.
Frankly, all the events they did just felt like events that were organized by some RUclipsrs. Nothing felt especially professional or high quality. I doubt anyone wanted to actually pay significant amounts to have some buddies without any resume or qualification produce a typical RUclips-quality event
30 is generous. Like the top top streamers are the only ones who can afford. Then do they want to do events. Then the event has to be in LA. And you could do it yourself with a cheaper production team not from LA. Not surprised it shutdown
@@marcwalshuk Seems you don’t work in marketing cuz that’s just not how it works. Like 90% brands don’t produce their marketing materials and ads in-house. Why would they? They hire giant ad agencies like Ogilvy who then approaches even companies like off brand to do events when needed. So for off brand to succeed in the industry and not just do “streamer events” they’d have to court those giant ad agencies and they all have their favourite event companies already. There are like literally only dozens of customers if that unless they’re happy just doing birthday parties and weddings
Its always been weird to me that specifically on twitch, not so much RUclips, Viewers just don't seem to care for events and the graphic you pulled up proves that, Kai is the only huge streamer who is doing events often
i’ll be real, as a youtube viewer, my favorite videos aren’t highly produced but low quality things with personality and fun. Mogul Money worked because it was a creator not bc of the set
It’s like Kai and Ibai that’s it, outside of them I can really only think of Lud’s first subathon or the Jerma IRL streams like the Sims/Carnival/Archaeology.
I think content creators can sometimes have a disconnect between what the audience wants and expects out of a platform and their own desires. Many times I've heard creators saying "I want to do bigger things, more production more travel more events" and I'm like dude that's not what people showed up for.
Streaming is mostly a replacement for television imo. When people get back from work/school they want a few hours of low investment entertainment to chill out to, that's why having a set schedule is so important and taking breaks can be devastating. It's comparable to 20 years ago when a kid came home from school at 3 o'clock to watch their favorite tv program and finds out it got replaced by something else. Big events can work but I think it's mostly when it's rare and perhaps some sort of big collab with multiple creators.
Honestly gutted to hear this. 💔 As someone who works in digital production, it was so incredible to see a company that felt like it had it's structure right, especially with the coop. I've always cheered it on from the side-lines and shared it as something that should been seen as a best practice. I hope at the very least someone sees what you started here and takes it forward in the future.
5:58 french streamers and content creators do so many events! As a french viewer, I feel like there's a big (huge) event almost every month. It's crazy that they do so many events even if they reach a smaller audience (since they only speak french, thus reaching french people only).
hey, I'm really sorry things didn't work out for offbrand. you were trying to do something really cool and I appreciated all of the events that you have put on. You're legitimately one of my favorite creators and the way you've tried to innovate in the space has been so refreshing to see.
There’s a feeling in America that if a business goes away it “failed” and that’s bad. It’s really not. You tried something, made some cool things, and it’s over now, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t awesome and an accomplishment. It has been a great ride Ludwig. We need a creator like you who’s even willing to try these big events because they ARE awesome, and if you stop I’m not sure anyone will bother to fill those shoes.
The whole point of a business is to make money. If the business isn't making money, you shut it down. That's not just in America. That's everywhere and any business. Parasocial relationships don't change that simple fact man.
@ hey man, I don’t think you really understand the actual concept I’m trying to point out. I’m trying to say that just because something is over, doesn’t make it a failure. Relationships can end and still can have been meaningful. Hobbies can be put down and never touched again, and still not be a “failed hobby”. The part about America is that American often conflate ending with failing. You can still be proud of starting a business when you end up having to close it later. I understand many businesses operate as for profit only. I even have an accounting degree and can tell you further that companies also operate entire branches at a loss and continue to exist. There’s an entire chapter about it when you learn about overheads and why would any company keep a branch that’s not making a profit. Ultimately, research and development are logged as an expense, and that’s what ended up happening here. Good R&D, learning more about the field, and how to operate it more effectively: that’s not a failure. Try having a positive mindset about people’s experiences because it could seriously help your own perspective.
Really sad to see this news. I actually wanted to work for offbrand after I graduated collage. I have friends who work in live sports production but I've always been more into the esports scene so that was right up my alley. Wish everyone the best, it can get really competitive out there.
Holy shit I’ve been in somewhat of the same boat. I ended up going into live sports production and have been working for almost 10 years now. Sports was the initial hook to get me into production but over the last 5+ years of going to various esports and creator events, my real passions have moved over but as the industry has shown us in that time, it is ROUGH out here. PS. Boback, other TO’s, and stream producers, y’all hiring local production crew for Genesis X2 still? lol
it was ridiculously ambitious, they would have needed to revolutionize a part of internet culture for it to work which made it exciting but in retrospect there should have been some additional sources of revenue that the team could work on in their downtime.
Props to Ludwig for realizing that he would lose both companies by march, and still deciding to pay out through February. Sad to see offbrand production go but Im glad to have been around to watch the events they made!
From the inception until the demise, Ludwig has always spoken about his staff, meaning more than the company itself, I do not doubt that he would have made jobs to have people he cares about around him and letting them go is harder than you can imagine. 1 failed business venture and still fairly paying severance to your staff is a lot more honest and truthful than so many huge "RUclipsrs", have done, are doing and will continue to do to their followings. Thanks brother, signed the parasocials 👍
It’s a bummer people don’t show out for events like streamer games since that is some of my favorite content on the internet this year. Either way though you gotta follow the trends I suppose in this world. Either way happy for some great entertainment!
Thank you for defending Co-op companys as a way for buisness management, I believe that the worker wants the company to succeed as much as those in charge as long as it doesn’t affect their way of life and their chance to grow which I believe Co-ops are better at this than regular CEO type companies
@@moshimoshiss Well, if they’re failing then something is clearly wrong with them. Not to say that the standard CEO companies are inherently better, but something significant needs to change with Co-op just like how Direct Democracy is not feasible as a viable and sustainable political system for the United States of America. There needs to be some structure of management or executive positions covered by specialized people instead of having all employees pitch into making company decisions, that is just not sustainable as we have witnessed- the current Co-op structure is too generalized, things are slower and you could end up with multiple conflicts of interest and opinions hampering the company.
very sad, i absolutely loved all the big events & would force my partner to watch the streams with me lol. like dodgeball & the streamer games were so fucking hype, i loved it. i hope to see more of it even if it’s not produced by offbrand. i also hope that everyone on the team is able to find more work, they’re all very talented & any company would be lucky to have them.
Edit 5:14 I mean yeah I didn't know if that was really the reason but sucks to know that it was cuz its aggravating knowing that there are such few streamers these days wanting to step out of their comfort zone & run these kind of events to begin with. This honestly is a shot to a gut... but id be lying if I said I didn't see tbis coming only because of how few and far between the events were. Sucks cuz there wasn't a single event they produced that wasnt upper echelon. Sad day for streaming as a whole tbh but the entire team should be proud of every product they put out
Either way I feel this shouldn't be viewed any other way than a success and ludwig and the entire team should be so proud of the product(s) they made cuz man... every. Single. One. Of them were streaming platform level events & I looked forward to each and every one. Seriously speaks to the type of creator ludwig is that he even attempted to put something like this together and how he always wants to "level up" from just sitting in front of his desk with a camera on and always wanting to do "cool shit" as he says. Will seriously miss hearing "produced by offbrand" at rhe end of event announcements..
i went to almost every event that OffBrand produced and they were all so much fun for my friends and I we got to meet so many like-minded people and have created friendships from it as a RUclipsr myself it was great for networking and rubbing shoulders i even met Ludwig a couple times these were fantastic and very well put together and I have no doubt the employees of OffBrand will go on to do fantastic things in the creator economy
@@brandonchin7713 I literally can't tell if this is a joke or not but RUclips is a business so idk what makes you think RUclipsrs aren't networking at events even if most of them don't call it networking per se. Networking is literally just meeting people so they know you exist and hopefully find you engaging.
Hearing about both the successes and problems is really interesting and made me think more about how the backend of running such a company is. Even if it’s over now, I feel like this was still a valuable experience not only for those involved but maybe even for future content creators who’d like to do similar things.
6:31 apparently the twitch channel for mogul mail is called shroud and it's doing pretty good for itself, 10th biggest on the platform. More lore for you nerds
The appeal of overproduction (not in the MrBeast type of way) is not that it has more character, but it has more legitimisation especially within the MSM. Just look at how Netflix legitimised itself to the MPAA as a producer by overproducing their shows and giving them a cinematic feel, even though it was completely unnecessary.
if chat interaction is the money maker would creating events with chat participation be the goal going forward? like a twitch plays situation but with live events? where chat directly influences the event? with multistreaming and twitch offering more collab built in features you could maybe somehow have various chats "fighting" each other somehow? love big events cause they are neat but felt like it was going more towards a tv show thats streamed instead of a creators streaming event (if that makes sense). hope those at offbrand find jobs since their work was really cool (unpaid intern was my fav "series"/"event" they did).
@@σκοτάδι-υ7σ i think sadly them focusing only on streamers was a shortcoming. a streamed event with a max fosh or the hide and seek around the world dudes would be sick. Like imagine they have live stream bags and the hide and seek is stream sniping with a 5 minute delay or something. and chat can buy their power ups and blockers.
With the amount of severance, I think getting the news early November is actually pretty good. It means that people can have a week or two to process the news, and still have time to take a vacation at the end of the month, and still have plenty of time in January to send out resumes when businesses are actually hiring. No one hires in November. It's unfortunate news, but it's not that surprising. Hopefully everyone is able to find new work, and there's still some ability to bring people back as contractors for a more limited set of events.
Taking 2 weeks to "process the news" and then take a vacation seems like a horrible way to go about this. There isnt anything to process except the fact you have no job. Two months pay isnt much money at all. Start sending out resumes asap.
You're just ahead of the times, in the future I bet events will be the norm or the trend. Wish the employees that lost their jobs all the luck in the world.
Couple of thoughts: 1) I have to imagine there would be other kinds of live production event work that Offbrand could have taken on to help sustain the team between streamer events. Even just basic corporate gigs to keep the lights on. Companies are always doing events and town halls and live streams and things like that. 2) The value of a live streamed event isn't just in the live viewer numbers. Gotta think about how many more folks are going to watch the VOD or highlights on RUclips afterwards. 3) There has to be some kind of a market for producing non-live content that other RUclipsrs could have utilized Offbrand's production services for. Surely other creators would have loved to do their own versions of Mogul Money or Unpaid Intern type content? Or is the issue that anybody big enough to want to do stuff like that already owns their own full production company and is doing it all in-house (e.g. Mythical, Smosh, 2nd Try, etc.)?
I mean, if the market was there like you think it is, this situation wouldn't be happening. I will not claim to ever think or say that I know Ludwig and what he would do personally, but he doesn't seem like the type of guy who would make a decision like this flippantly and without effort to make it work. I think that for streamers or other youtubers, they either got comfy doing things with low effort, or have the appetite to do events on their own. And Ludwig is very well aware of the live viewer point you brought up, in the same way he was aware that chessboxing wasn't a money loss in the long run, like he said in the video.
@noahwesterberg8566 I think the market for #1 is definitely there. Just not sure Offbrand was interested and/or willing to pursue that kind of work. Whether or not there was a market for the other, I don't know. But either way, it's a shame they weren't able to find a way to make things work. You never want to see a company fold and people lose their jobs. Hopefully some of them can land back at Mogul w/ Lud and the rest can find work elsewhere.
I think #3 is a big part of it. Lots of the examples of CCs I think would use this kind of service already have it sorted in-house or through an organization that likely uses contract work to fill the needs as they arise like Lud alluded to in the sustainability analysis. Also the market for #1 exists for sure, but could also be served adequately already.
As someone who worked at a company that kept us going with lies of, "We're fine, we're just seeing our options of who wants to invest in us", "you have nothing to worry about", "this is only temporary", then on December 30th, on our day off, getting told that the day before was our last day at the company and they were shutting down... God. I can't EXPRESS how important it is for a company to let employees know if something is getting to a point where it's on rocky waters. As shitty as the situation is, you guys going ahead and telling the employees and giving them TIME is so damn important.
At the 10 minute mark you explain that you had more viewers during one of your "normal" streams compared to world's greatest gamer. I think that the reason is that the viewer wants to watch something he is used to: Watching people I have never heard of competing in an event which rules I haven't understood is too committimg from my side. After a long day of work I would prefer to watch something I am more familiar with and I think many feel the same
Honestly, as someone who doesn't watch livestreams but does watch the edited videos or VODs. I love watching both types of events, big ideas and just chilling with the homie playing league for a week.
Kind of explains how on the pod they talk about playing games during work hours a lot. It's not that they're avoiding work, it's that there really wasn't much work to do.
As someone who has been closely following Offbrand as a business due to how inspiring it is, an immediate thought to keep the business running is not limiting its scope to streamers. I would say the streaming doesn't even cover that much of the economy at all. As you said people with that type of purchasing power often stay with what kept them relevant, although investing in such an event could've profoundly impacted their growth no doubt about it. You said Offbrand is capable of making events on a consistent basis, so I believe a natural inclination is to go to bigger businesses for the sole purpose of advertising their own businesses. Therefore changing the model to becoming an agency that makes impactful streamed events for both businesses and streamers (that drives great growth potential). I understand it might've corporatized this business leaving it a bit more "soulless" but it just seems like something that could've scaled drastically had that been the case. I believe the trade-off would've been necessary even if the vision was to specialize to just streamers at one point. I don't believe that the structure of worker co-op was flawed, more just in the selling to who is the thing. TLDR: Streamers aren't as scalable as bigger businesses. Please let me know some of your thoughts!
From my work experience, events are a LOOOT of work, and often times, you don't really see the return on them in a way that feels super satisfying. I used to work for a university and we had events for prospective students to consider applying to our programs and each event took up so much prep time and money (for venues and print materials and we would schedule email blasts and all these things) but the data wouldn't really show any spikes of applications right after events. I'm sure they made some difference but it felt pretty thankless even if I saw the attendees having a good time. There's also so much stress that goes into events. It''s a break from business as usual and it's a now or never kind of situation. Any little tech hiccup ends up haunting me for weeks after for no reason so I can definitely understand that there aren't as many streamers (who have been focusing primarily on streams since they were teenagers) to not feel as motivated to really dive into events. As an audience member, a good event makes a lifelong memory so I really appreciate Lud going for it. I actually think his journalism degree had a role here and that he started streaming when he was a bit older. But yeah, on the production side, I'm glad my career moved away from events lol.
In truth I didn’t think other creators were into big events. But I thought with offbrand productions existing more people would try. But I guess the kind of person that’s willing to grind at a desk for 6-14 hours a day every day isn’t usually the same as the person who plans huge events.
it seems like there's a misunderstanding that leads to some of these events having super disproportionate viewership to cost. from what I can tell, loyal viewers of content creators watch them because they like their personality (or whatever their specific niche is). events like the streamer games can't engage people the same way since the content creators are (poorly) doing physical challenges rather than leaning into what drives people to actually watch them. these events end up costing way more, but by virtue of the type of events they won't drive in more viewership since they don't offer what people may be looking for. looking back at Mogul Money it was a perfect format for streamers since it had a loose enough structure to allow streamers to do what they do best.
same man. maybe i’m naive but i gotta think ludwig would give it another shot, maybe with less overhead and more focus on profit, learning from his mistakes. I know he tried to be more than fair with wages and keep ticket costs for live events as low as possible, but from a business standpoint it clearly wasnt working. but with as much passion he’s had towards events and offbrand itself, gotta think he’ll try again someday
Hi Ludwig. I think the 'maximum connection' you refer to is due to the fact that many people are lonely through their parasocial habits (constantly on phone/social media, using videogames as escapism, binging shows, whatever addiction it may be). I address this issue because I believe you, as a person, businessman, and leader, have the ability to continue addressing this. I also believe that you, because of the previous roles you fill, believe in investing in your viewership to the maximum. I think you should host viewer events etc. League would be really easy to run off of a few PC's, and you fly out viewers to play league and film their social interaction over a weekend or someshit. Like viewer bootcamp. But you would participate in this event, viewers get what they want, and it also addresses their parasocialism as they get to interact with each other. Idk just fun ideas.
It's funny in a sad kind of way that offbrand started because streamers had all these big ideas but were too lazy to actually do them, and ended because they were too lazy to even hire a production company to do it for them
oh holy shit that's devastating. offbrand produced so many phenomenal events and productions that was so huge for the creators space, so crushing to hear it's shutting down but know the impact you guys truly had on this space. so many incredible creative individuals, so much love to everybody involved.
It's sad, but I guess just the reality, that the gaming side of the business is more sustainable than the event side. Offbrand hosted a bunch of cool events, sad to see a company that knew gaming culture shut down.
Nothing could ever draw me to a twitch or youtube livestream. I dont have the time nor inclination to watch 7 hours of a stream thats at least 50% dead air. Id rather watch the 20-40 minute highlights edited together.
@kerolokerokerolo my point was watching a stream isn't the same as interacting in person so you can't pretend my issues with streaming are applicable to real life
Event companies need at least 1 of 2 things: to have large events or to have regular events. Some companies focus on giant events only a few times a year with only a few employees, some contractors, and the rest volunteers, but those are harder to get off the ground. They also need to generate revenue through ticket sales or sponsorships. These event companies tend to be things like conventions groups, which might be for profit or 501(c)3, since large scale ticket sales should heavily outdo expenses (so long as you're smart with hotel block contracts and other things). I pretty expected this when the discussions about losses from chess boxing were discussed, and how quickly Fast50 was put together. Fast50 didn't have a sustainability plan for how much was being expensed vs the potential drought afterwards, as it was last minute, had incredibly limited ticket sales, and was during 2 other smaller speedrunning events people had already planned for. It wanted the coziness of old Summit tournament, but the production of something larger, and that doesn't work.
Probably wouldn’t have changed the outcome, because of the demographic of streamers. But, In hindsight the company became more of a marketing agency more than anything else Where consumers should expect to loose money and gain followers rather than pay an amount and gain more cash than they put in.
Hey Lud I think a great way to help the people that were laid off is to give them resources to update and or make new resumes. Tbh thats the worse part of job hunting and it would make their lives a lot easier. Something they can do over the holidays.
Ludwig is spot on about the initial investment not exactly being all that matters when you do an event. I remember Ludwig doing the subathon but I never watched or during that event. I started when mogul money live took off, and I loved watching and that’s what eventually led to me being a fan. I can’t be the only one this happened to, really sad to see off brand go down like this, I know it was something Ludwig was passionate about
You’re an exceptionally inspirational creator, and whilst this sucks ass, I’m excited what rises out of this situation and see what you do next. Keep your head up
thank you for trying luddy! we appreciate the efforts, here is to hopes that you're able to put something of this caliber together in the future! the community could really use another 'beyond the summit'
It sucks but contractors are usually better and cheaper than having employees unless you explicitly need people day to day. At the end of the day, companys need to make money or there's no point.
Yes! I'm celebrating £32K stock portfolio today... Started this journey with £3K.... I've invested no time and also with the right terms, now I have time for my family an…
An awesome streamer event that you could take notes from is Sajam’s fighting game slams. It allowed for streamers to still have their own communities/chats while giving viewers the opportunity to intermingle, and it has the direct engagement element that you’re looking for. Well wishes to the folks at off brand events, hopefully they all land on their feet.
far be it for me to assume how streaming works when I'm a nobody, but I disagree that one of the reasons events don't work is because of a lack of chat/viewer interaction/agency - I think more than anything, if you're going to watch Chessboxing for one particular fight or something, the chances are you're already part of the community surrounding that event, for example. I think most of chat doesn't care that their voice isn't heard through direct streamer interaction, it's just moreso you're not inviting more people into the space that weren't already going to watch the events. Maybe I'm completely wrong on that, idk - it is really sad to see and hear though
Yeah I love Ludwig and I loved alot of the events put on, but I could've told you 2 years ago that it's not a sustainable business model. When I learned that Offbrand was a full company separate from Ludwig just getting events put together, I think my initial thought was "how is there enough of a market to provide for the employees needed for that kind of business," and it turns out there wasn't. I hope the employees find new opportunities soon.
Sad to see the production shut down as I feel it was a perfect blend of professional and amature/casual feel to the events. My favourite event was Fast50 with the Beerio Kart World Cup coming second and I hope you keep doing them as these things feel a bit more timeless with the production quality that goes into them as I mostly watch VODs.
It's too bad because I remember OTK hiring random production companies for events and everything was super scuffed, it seemed like there was an actual need for streamer event production teams that know what they're doing, but I guess the money just wasn't there. Best of luck to everyone involved.
the only question I have is if you shut down offbrand production entirely. If so, I think a better solution was keeping skeleton crew and focusing on consultation work and act as a contractor based agency, where depending on scope, you hire as much personal as needed on tasks-to-do basis. That way, heads of production, design or smth smth could focus on helping other production studious to do their events, cause ur events slapped. And if need arises, hire people to do own events, even those who were previously on offbrand production team, but were fired. but I might be missing smth.
He's gotta point, the majority of streaming audiences are there for the streamer not the show which sucks because it really does prevent innovation on the platform beyond a certain point. Kai Cenat is probably the best example of how far you can take streaming, but it's still just a version of what has already been established.
I just got laid off before Christmas too. I got a severance also. They could have laid me off as soon as they made the decision to restructure but they waited for some reason. Unless as soon as you found out you told the employees…. It’s still scum bag shit. It’s a failure on multiple levels. I’m a fan Ludwig but I do not like mfs who lay off right before Christmas.
I really like this kind of Ludwig. Usually I feel like we see the upbeat funny guy, but this is sort of the business man Ludwig. And I fell like it’s so real. I sometimes forget you run these other businesses and your not just a guy who sits in your room streaming 😂 So it’s really cool to see what your like running a business and making these sorts of decisions
They also did events with DougDoug, Jerma, and xQc (with Ludwig for Juiced) but yeah it unfortunately seems that most streamers don't want to the the risk on a big event when they could instead keep a steady income with their normal streams
This makes sense… Ludwig wants to make events and has the money to burn on them… his company (Offbrand) isn’t just him and does need to stay afloat… So if Ludwig it’s putting all the money to make the events, then he should take the credit (and risk) of them
I don't know if it is necessarily about taking the credit for them because any of the major events were already pretty much credited to him. I think it is more about the workers need to have a liveable salary and he can't make that work unless they did contract work like he mentioned but then they still wouldn't have gauranteed steady work/income
This isn't about taking credit... i doubt Ludwig or anyone has a problem sharing credit with production because they know how valuable the production side is.... this is about employee cost and the frequency of contracts... Offbrand and Ludwig were hoping they could change the Live Streaming landscape and move more to a professionally produced medium like Traditional Television... sadly sitting in front of your computer screaming at the screen is still preferred by most viewers so there was little incentive for big Creators to move to larger productions
@@themainguy5241 Yeah and when it comes to "Events" they don't really happen everyday and its either monthly or yearly..If lucky there will be like 3+ events in 1 month but after that....nothing....no profit earning, money draining because you know, you still need to pay salary to your employee...throughout the end of the year. So, doing contract salary is better but its not stable income so they need to find another job.
Producing events is hard. Hope it all works out. Good on you for making it right with the employees. I work in production and it is the first industry to me hit in tough times. Looking forward to the next events.
I mean, no offense, but anyone could have seen this was the case ahead of time. The only big creators that really do big events are Lud and QT. Kai and MrBeast have their own crews. This might have worked better if they had secured some recurring quarterly events before they decided to found a company around producing them.
I feel like off brand only catered to like 30 people in order for that type thing to be successful they would have to had start doing like wedding planning or corporate events in addition to just streamer events but just doing creator events is shooting yourselves in the foot from the start
To be fair, they also did ads and stuff for some companies like KFC and Marvel Snap and a couple of Redbull events but yeah those definitely weren't their primary customers
Awesome events you guys put on, bummer we couldn't keep it going in the way that it was. Hope everyone who was involved in the projects keeps getting work in the industry either continuing with Ludwig and his people in some way or in another creator or company that wants to do cool stuff with the same involvement as a worker co-op.
i am a random that knows nothing about the industry, but i think it’s about it being personality and talent forward. like i think mogul money was rlly successful cause it’s flashy and a proper set but also still very natural and down to earth, compared to streamer games which has moments of personality but is ultimately people competing with commentary in the big moments. or like greatest gamer, i see connor eats pants for like 20 mins over the stream but the majority is rlly funny commentary (but i’m a melee player so i am biased) but not talent forward.
honestly 2 month's severance in this type of industry is a huge relief- i was laid off an animation studio that gave me 1 month's severance, and that was incredibly generous given that no other studio really offers more than 2 weeks (if any, lbr). I hope the others are able to roll off into other jobs as quick as possible!
fr severance pay does not exist in the production industry, you're lucky if you even have a salary paying job/any small amount of job security
Part 2: ruclips.net/video/x727Oq9w_Ic/видео.htmlsi=IWtu2PtOzA2fb0Ai
Cope. Ludwig is a goon
In Australia the typical severance is 1 month for every year of service, plus some other benefits
Our competitor bought us, and they are laying off the entire 900 staff. Noone is getting a severance :/
What 100 hours of league of legends does to a man’s company
Socialism doesn’t work is what he should have said to save time
@OfficialRileyPlayz get a job
@@gamilith it's a bot
@@nizzel_then it needs to get a life
@@nizzel_ it's weird because the account looks real, probably got hacked
Jerma now has to remove the CEOatOffbrand tag from his stream :(
But for real, sad to hear this news, seriously wishing the best for y'all
Part 2: ruclips.net/video/x727Oq9w_Ic/видео.htmlsi=IWtu2PtOzA2fb0Ai
Do you really want to be a CEO at this moment in time? 😳
@@drex5160people only hate scummy CEOS. No one hates Arizona or Costco
beats being a poor NEET @@drex5160
Ludwig is nothing without Jerma 😔
I cant believe Stanz is actually unpaid now
@OfficialRileyPlayz im scared to click that
@OfficialRileyPlayz do not click this, it's not only a tracking link but the video isn't Ludwig, it's one of the scumbags that scams people for clicks (fake mr. beast pfp)
Stanz probably is still employed by Mogul Moves? I think? Or maybe he'll have time to stream more and we get more Stanz streams and he finally plays TimeGuessr again...
@@LoFiAxolotl the guy was clearly joking... play on words of Unpaid Intern
@@tiiadica is the play on words just that interns never get paid or is there an extra entendre I'm missing here?
even tho i only worked for a couple events, offbrand was by far the best company i've ever worked with and i'm so sad it's gone under. i really hope i (and everyone else who was involved in offbrand productions) can work on similar projects in the future
And they just threw you to the side like the capitalist pigs they are.
❤
the d riding is insane. Sure you did, sure it was the best 😂😂😂. If it was the best why did Ludwig just fire all of his employees?
@@Graahk-r8uDid you watch the video? Or are you just rage baiting?
@OfficialRileyPlayzDisliked and reported
I think the main thing is that unless you have a really inspired creator, there really never is any incentive whatsoever for streamers to do large events. I mean let's just be honest, streamers often put a lot of time into the streams themselves, but they do it with effectively zero prep at all. Most just hit the go live button and play the game they wanted to play, or talk about the thing that they want to talk about. I think Ludwig has too much faith in other streamers being as motivated to make fun, interesting, and bigger events. But sad to see it didn't pan out, cause the events Offbrand put on were cool.
Its also difficult because those motivated, creative streamers who would be in the market for working with Offbrand, would also be the exact motivated, creative streamers who would just create the event themselves yk
@@silversalmon9909 Yup, totally agree, you see that with creators like Ibai
@silversalmon9909 the other issue is that most of those creators are probably gonna be smaller streamers, and like Ludwig said even his 30k viewers wasn't enough.
Most people in this industry start getting comfortable once they get big, so it makes sense why they wouldn't be as interested in doing big events.
@@jellytwins1018 Yup, and if they did end up growing a lot from an event, then that growth satiates their desire to do more, assuming that that was their main motivation for doing the large event.
The best comparison here to me is Nebula's success. Nebula only works because there's a lot of RUclipsrs who want to do more than just that, and push their creative boundaries. The same is simply not true for streamers. The number of notable streamers pushing the envelope of what streamers can do is in the single digits.
Im in the restaurant industry which is brutal so i get it. Good restaurants run by competent people close every day. Sometimes it just wasnt in the works or its the right time. You learn from it and you develop your next project even better.
well said mate
This is so true. I cry real tears when I see my favorite restaurants run by the loveliest people close for financial reasons ❤
@@thepowers100 the chef is probably applying their trade somewhere else nearby depending on the size of the city. Or he's in jail. That also happens.
Theres a spot in my town that all the local people that have restraunts have tried to make work and since it's hidden behind other restraunts they all fail. Great food good environment and all have failed. Some places are just cursed
Same. There are big lessons to learn in any “failure”. Sometimes the cards just aren’t in your favor. Learn from it and do your best with the knowledge you gained on your next venture.
Sad to see offbrand getting shut down. But honestly nothing to do with ya’ll. I hope everyone is doing great and honestly I really like the transparency
@OfficialRileyPlayz Bot, the link goes to a random video usually asmr for some reason just dont click it y'all it gets him views.
@MoldyMan.I click it and it was a bowser in a car not bad actually haha
Nothing to do with y’all? Definitely was their own doing but Ludwig still tried his best and that’s what counts. If you don’t adapt to the market then you won’t be able to live in it. Should have looked into what the viewers wanted and doubled down. Regardless I wish the employees and Ludwig the best on their future works.
He literally fucking said it's not shutting down, are u dull? He said the production side
At the end of the day, the product was good, but it had maybe 30ish potential customers :(
@@akaRicoSanchez I disagree - creators weren’t the only ‘customers’, there are a tonne of brands looking for partnerships as well.
@@marcwalshuk maybe sales and marketing was the problem then, but regardless, they clearly didn't have the customers.
Frankly, all the events they did just felt like events that were organized by some RUclipsrs. Nothing felt especially professional or high quality. I doubt anyone wanted to actually pay significant amounts to have some buddies without any resume or qualification produce a typical RUclips-quality event
30 is generous. Like the top top streamers are the only ones who can afford. Then do they want to do events. Then the event has to be in LA. And you could do it yourself with a cheaper production team not from LA. Not surprised it shutdown
@@marcwalshuk Seems you don’t work in marketing cuz that’s just not how it works. Like 90% brands don’t produce their marketing materials and ads in-house. Why would they? They hire giant ad agencies like Ogilvy who then approaches even companies like off brand to do events when needed. So for off brand to succeed in the industry and not just do “streamer events” they’d have to court those giant ad agencies and they all have their favourite event companies already. There are like literally only dozens of customers if that unless they’re happy just doing birthday parties and weddings
Its always been weird to me that specifically on twitch, not so much RUclips, Viewers just don't seem to care for events and the graphic you pulled up proves that, Kai is the only huge streamer who is doing events often
i’ll be real, as a youtube viewer, my favorite videos aren’t highly produced but low quality things with personality and fun. Mogul Money worked because it was a creator not bc of the set
It’s like Kai and Ibai that’s it, outside of them I can really only think of Lud’s first subathon or the Jerma IRL streams like the Sims/Carnival/Archaeology.
I think content creators can sometimes have a disconnect between what the audience wants and expects out of a platform and their own desires. Many times I've heard creators saying "I want to do bigger things, more production more travel more events" and I'm like dude that's not what people showed up for.
People would just watch regular tv/produced shows if they wanted big polished things. There is comfort in the authentic
Streaming is mostly a replacement for television imo. When people get back from work/school they want a few hours of low investment entertainment to chill out to, that's why having a set schedule is so important and taking breaks can be devastating.
It's comparable to 20 years ago when a kid came home from school at 3 o'clock to watch their favorite tv program and finds out it got replaced by something else.
Big events can work but I think it's mostly when it's rare and perhaps some sort of big collab with multiple creators.
rip unfort was always an idea that seemed unprofitable but a cool way for him to give back to the community he came from.
Honestly gutted to hear this. 💔 As someone who works in digital production, it was so incredible to see a company that felt like it had it's structure right, especially with the coop. I've always cheered it on from the side-lines and shared it as something that should been seen as a best practice. I hope at the very least someone sees what you started here and takes it forward in the future.
fs in the chat for socialism
5:58 french streamers and content creators do so many events! As a french viewer, I feel like there's a big (huge) event almost every month. It's crazy that they do so many events even if they reach a smaller audience (since they only speak french, thus reaching french people only).
Yea and there literally is French Offbrand (ZQSD Production) that runs most of these events. Just a different streaming culture I guess.
hey, I'm really sorry things didn't work out for offbrand. you were trying to do something really cool and I appreciated all of the events that you have put on. You're legitimately one of my favorite creators and the way you've tried to innovate in the space has been so refreshing to see.
There’s a feeling in America that if a business goes away it “failed” and that’s bad. It’s really not. You tried something, made some cool things, and it’s over now, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t awesome and an accomplishment. It has been a great ride Ludwig. We need a creator like you who’s even willing to try these big events because they ARE awesome, and if you stop I’m not sure anyone will bother to fill those shoes.
The whole point of a business is to make money. If the business isn't making money, you shut it down. That's not just in America. That's everywhere and any business. Parasocial relationships don't change that simple fact man.
@ hey man, I don’t think you really understand the actual concept I’m trying to point out. I’m trying to say that just because something is over, doesn’t make it a failure. Relationships can end and still can have been meaningful. Hobbies can be put down and never touched again, and still not be a “failed hobby”. The part about America is that American often conflate ending with failing. You can still be proud of starting a business when you end up having to close it later. I understand many businesses operate as for profit only. I even have an accounting degree and can tell you further that companies also operate entire branches at a loss and continue to exist. There’s an entire chapter about it when you learn about overheads and why would any company keep a branch that’s not making a profit. Ultimately, research and development are logged as an expense, and that’s what ended up happening here. Good R&D, learning more about the field, and how to operate it more effectively: that’s not a failure. Try having a positive mindset about people’s experiences because it could seriously help your own perspective.
I really hoped Offbrand would work
2 months severance is very generous. Ludwig, slime and anyone else behind the scenes are good people.
Really sad to see this news. I actually wanted to work for offbrand after I graduated collage. I have friends who work in live sports production but I've always been more into the esports scene so that was right up my alley. Wish everyone the best, it can get really competitive out there.
Lol, I actually had the same thoughts. Though I'm probably headed towards sports production myself after I graduate.
Holy shit I’ve been in somewhat of the same boat. I ended up going into live sports production and have been working for almost 10 years now. Sports was the initial hook to get me into production but over the last 5+ years of going to various esports and creator events, my real passions have moved over but as the industry has shown us in that time, it is ROUGH out here.
PS. Boback, other TO’s, and stream producers, y’all hiring local production crew for Genesis X2 still? lol
What i got from this is that streamers dont touch enough grass to do events
it was ridiculously ambitious, they would have needed to revolutionize a part of internet culture for it to work which made it exciting but in retrospect there should have been some additional sources of revenue that the team could work on in their downtime.
Props to Ludwig for realizing that he would lose both companies by march, and still deciding to pay out through February. Sad to see offbrand production go but Im glad to have been around to watch the events they made!
From the inception until the demise, Ludwig has always spoken about his staff, meaning more than the company itself, I do not doubt that he would have made jobs to have people he cares about around him and letting them go is harder than you can imagine. 1 failed business venture and still fairly paying severance to your staff is a lot more honest and truthful than so many huge "RUclipsrs", have done, are doing and will continue to do to their followings. Thanks brother, signed the parasocials 👍
It’s a bummer people don’t show out for events like streamer games since that is some of my favorite content on the internet this year. Either way though you gotta follow the trends I suppose in this world. Either way happy for some great entertainment!
Thank you for defending Co-op companys as a way for buisness management, I believe that the worker wants the company to succeed as much as those in charge as long as it doesn’t affect their way of life and their chance to grow which I believe Co-ops are better at this than regular CEO type companies
Yes, and it's extremely sad when co-ops fail
@@moshimoshiss Well, if they’re failing then something is clearly wrong with them. Not to say that the standard CEO companies are inherently better, but something significant needs to change with Co-op just like how Direct Democracy is not feasible as a viable and sustainable political system for the United States of America.
There needs to be some structure of management or executive positions covered by specialized people instead of having all employees pitch into making company decisions, that is just not sustainable as we have witnessed- the current Co-op structure is too generalized, things are slower and you could end up with multiple conflicts of interest and opinions hampering the company.
very sad, i absolutely loved all the big events & would force my partner to watch the streams with me lol. like dodgeball & the streamer games were so fucking hype, i loved it. i hope to see more of it even if it’s not produced by offbrand.
i also hope that everyone on the team is able to find more work, they’re all very talented & any company would be lucky to have them.
Gotta fail to succeed. Huge shoutout to Lud for acknowledging everything.
Every successful businessman has 10 failed busineess behind them.
Edit 5:14 I mean yeah I didn't know if that was really the reason but sucks to know that it was cuz its aggravating knowing that there are such few streamers these days wanting to step out of their comfort zone & run these kind of events to begin with.
This honestly is a shot to a gut... but id be lying if I said I didn't see tbis coming only because of how few and far between the events were. Sucks cuz there wasn't a single event they produced that wasnt upper echelon.
Sad day for streaming as a whole tbh but the entire team should be proud of every product they put out
Either way I feel this shouldn't be viewed any other way than a success and ludwig and the entire team should be so proud of the product(s) they made cuz man... every. Single. One. Of them were streaming platform level events & I looked forward to each and every one. Seriously speaks to the type of creator ludwig is that he even attempted to put something like this together and how he always wants to "level up" from just sitting in front of his desk with a camera on and always wanting to do "cool shit" as he says. Will seriously miss hearing "produced by offbrand" at rhe end of event announcements..
@@SageO6PathzGON How is this a success they literally went bankrupt and are shutting down
@@Naevak. The events were successful, the company was not.
i went to almost every event that OffBrand produced and they were all so much fun for my friends and I
we got to meet so many like-minded people and have created friendships from it
as a RUclipsr myself it was great for networking and rubbing shoulders
i even met Ludwig a couple times
these were fantastic and very well put together and I have no doubt the employees of OffBrand will go on to do fantastic things in the creator economy
networking? YUCK
get a life man.
@@brandonchin7713 I literally can't tell if this is a joke or not but RUclips is a business so idk what makes you think RUclipsrs aren't networking at events even if most of them don't call it networking per se. Networking is literally just meeting people so they know you exist and hopefully find you engaging.
Hearing about both the successes and problems is really interesting and made me think more about how the backend of running such a company is. Even if it’s over now, I feel like this was still a valuable experience not only for those involved but maybe even for future content creators who’d like to do similar things.
6:31 apparently the twitch channel for mogul mail is called shroud and it's doing pretty good for itself, 10th biggest on the platform. More lore for you nerds
I think that the appeal of RUclips and streaming over TV is that they AREN'T overproduced. It has more character when it is less structured.
The appeal of overproduction (not in the MrBeast type of way) is not that it has more character, but it has more legitimisation especially within the MSM.
Just look at how Netflix legitimised itself to the MPAA as a producer by overproducing their shows and giving them a cinematic feel, even though it was completely unnecessary.
if chat interaction is the money maker would creating events with chat participation be the goal going forward? like a twitch plays situation but with live events? where chat directly influences the event? with multistreaming and twitch offering more collab built in features you could maybe somehow have various chats "fighting" each other somehow?
love big events cause they are neat but felt like it was going more towards a tv show thats streamed instead of a creators streaming event (if that makes sense).
hope those at offbrand find jobs since their work was really cool (unpaid intern was my fav "series"/"event" they did).
This would be sick and I think chat would like it better. Like that sims thing they did with jerma.
@@σκοτάδι-υ7σ i think sadly them focusing only on streamers was a shortcoming. a streamed event with a max fosh or the hide and seek around the world dudes would be sick.
Like imagine they have live stream bags and the hide and seek is stream sniping with a 5 minute delay or something. and chat can buy their power ups and blockers.
Dang, I absolutely loved Unpaid Intern
@@William.Kelly7 best Ludwig content sad to see it go.
With the amount of severance, I think getting the news early November is actually pretty good. It means that people can have a week or two to process the news, and still have time to take a vacation at the end of the month, and still have plenty of time in January to send out resumes when businesses are actually hiring. No one hires in November.
It's unfortunate news, but it's not that surprising. Hopefully everyone is able to find new work, and there's still some ability to bring people back as contractors for a more limited set of events.
Taking 2 weeks to "process the news" and then take a vacation seems like a horrible way to go about this. There isnt anything to process except the fact you have no job. Two months pay isnt much money at all. Start sending out resumes asap.
You're just ahead of the times, in the future I bet events will be the norm or the trend. Wish the employees that lost their jobs all the luck in the world.
Unheard levels of transparency. Releasing numbers is such a vulnerable thing to do and I respect it so much
What timestamp?
this breaks my heart so much a shame that the business model wasn’t the best and maybe too niche but i hope for the best for all parties involved.
I appreciate how candid you are on this channel, and about your business in general.
Couple of thoughts:
1) I have to imagine there would be other kinds of live production event work that Offbrand could have taken on to help sustain the team between streamer events. Even just basic corporate gigs to keep the lights on. Companies are always doing events and town halls and live streams and things like that.
2) The value of a live streamed event isn't just in the live viewer numbers. Gotta think about how many more folks are going to watch the VOD or highlights on RUclips afterwards.
3) There has to be some kind of a market for producing non-live content that other RUclipsrs could have utilized Offbrand's production services for. Surely other creators would have loved to do their own versions of Mogul Money or Unpaid Intern type content? Or is the issue that anybody big enough to want to do stuff like that already owns their own full production company and is doing it all in-house (e.g. Mythical, Smosh, 2nd Try, etc.)?
I mean, if the market was there like you think it is, this situation wouldn't be happening. I will not claim to ever think or say that I know Ludwig and what he would do personally, but he doesn't seem like the type of guy who would make a decision like this flippantly and without effort to make it work. I think that for streamers or other youtubers, they either got comfy doing things with low effort, or have the appetite to do events on their own. And Ludwig is very well aware of the live viewer point you brought up, in the same way he was aware that chessboxing wasn't a money loss in the long run, like he said in the video.
@noahwesterberg8566 I think the market for #1 is definitely there. Just not sure Offbrand was interested and/or willing to pursue that kind of work.
Whether or not there was a market for the other, I don't know. But either way, it's a shame they weren't able to find a way to make things work. You never want to see a company fold and people lose their jobs. Hopefully some of them can land back at Mogul w/ Lud and the rest can find work elsewhere.
I think #3 is a big part of it. Lots of the examples of CCs I think would use this kind of service already have it sorted in-house or through an organization that likely uses contract work to fill the needs as they arise like Lud alluded to in the sustainability analysis. Also the market for #1 exists for sure, but could also be served adequately already.
It's great to see a big creator like mogul mail talking about small creators ludwig and his small business off brand
exactly this is what im saying
This guy, 👆 he gets it
As someone who worked at a company that kept us going with lies of, "We're fine, we're just seeing our options of who wants to invest in us", "you have nothing to worry about", "this is only temporary", then on December 30th, on our day off, getting told that the day before was our last day at the company and they were shutting down... God. I can't EXPRESS how important it is for a company to let employees know if something is getting to a point where it's on rocky waters.
As shitty as the situation is, you guys going ahead and telling the employees and giving them TIME is so damn important.
At the 10 minute mark you explain that you had more viewers during one of your "normal" streams compared to world's greatest gamer. I think that the reason is that the viewer wants to watch something he is used to: Watching people I have never heard of competing in an event which rules I haven't understood is too committimg from my side. After a long day of work I would prefer to watch something I am more familiar with and I think many feel the same
Mogul Mail guy will never leave us, unlike former youtuber known as Ludwig.
Honestly, as someone who doesn't watch livestreams but does watch the edited videos or VODs. I love watching both types of events, big ideas and just chilling with the homie playing league for a week.
Kind of explains how on the pod they talk about playing games during work hours a lot. It's not that they're avoiding work, it's that there really wasn't much work to do.
lmao
As someone who has been closely following Offbrand as a business due to how inspiring it is, an immediate thought to keep the business running is not limiting its scope to streamers. I would say the streaming doesn't even cover that much of the economy at all. As you said people with that type of purchasing power often stay with what kept them relevant, although investing in such an event could've profoundly impacted their growth no doubt about it. You said Offbrand is capable of making events on a consistent basis, so I believe a natural inclination is to go to bigger businesses for the sole purpose of advertising their own businesses. Therefore changing the model to becoming an agency that makes impactful streamed events for both businesses and streamers (that drives great growth potential). I understand it might've corporatized this business leaving it a bit more "soulless" but it just seems like something that could've scaled drastically had that been the case. I believe the trade-off would've been necessary even if the vision was to specialize to just streamers at one point. I don't believe that the structure of worker co-op was flawed, more just in the selling to who is the thing.
TLDR: Streamers aren't as scalable as bigger businesses.
Please let me know some of your thoughts!
From my work experience, events are a LOOOT of work, and often times, you don't really see the return on them in a way that feels super satisfying. I used to work for a university and we had events for prospective students to consider applying to our programs and each event took up so much prep time and money (for venues and print materials and we would schedule email blasts and all these things) but the data wouldn't really show any spikes of applications right after events. I'm sure they made some difference but it felt pretty thankless even if I saw the attendees having a good time.
There's also so much stress that goes into events. It''s a break from business as usual and it's a now or never kind of situation. Any little tech hiccup ends up haunting me for weeks after for no reason so I can definitely understand that there aren't as many streamers (who have been focusing primarily on streams since they were teenagers) to not feel as motivated to really dive into events. As an audience member, a good event makes a lifelong memory so I really appreciate Lud going for it. I actually think his journalism degree had a role here and that he started streaming when he was a bit older. But yeah, on the production side, I'm glad my career moved away from events lol.
7:10 so ppl actually prefer more... parasocial content!
People who watch twitch streams prefer…twitch streams. Who would have guessed?
In truth I didn’t think other creators were into big events. But I thought with offbrand productions existing more people would try.
But I guess the kind of person that’s willing to grind at a desk for 6-14 hours a day every day isn’t usually the same as the person who plans huge events.
I mean why put effort in events when you can make much more money by reacting to content made by other people
it seems like there's a misunderstanding that leads to some of these events having super disproportionate viewership to cost. from what I can tell, loyal viewers of content creators watch them because they like their personality (or whatever their specific niche is). events like the streamer games can't engage people the same way since the content creators are (poorly) doing physical challenges rather than leaning into what drives people to actually watch them. these events end up costing way more, but by virtue of the type of events they won't drive in more viewership since they don't offer what people may be looking for. looking back at Mogul Money it was a perfect format for streamers since it had a loose enough structure to allow streamers to do what they do best.
I'm gonna miss unpaid intern it was actually my favorite ludwig content ever.
same man. maybe i’m naive but i gotta think ludwig would give it another shot, maybe with less overhead and more focus on profit, learning from his mistakes. I know he tried to be more than fair with wages and keep ticket costs for live events as low as possible, but from a business standpoint it clearly wasnt working. but with as much passion he’s had towards events and offbrand itself, gotta think he’ll try again someday
Hi Ludwig. I think the 'maximum connection' you refer to is due to the fact that many people are lonely through their parasocial habits (constantly on phone/social media, using videogames as escapism, binging shows, whatever addiction it may be). I address this issue because I believe you, as a person, businessman, and leader, have the ability to continue addressing this. I also believe that you, because of the previous roles you fill, believe in investing in your viewership to the maximum. I think you should host viewer events etc. League would be really easy to run off of a few PC's, and you fly out viewers to play league and film their social interaction over a weekend or someshit. Like viewer bootcamp. But you would participate in this event, viewers get what they want, and it also addresses their parasocialism as they get to interact with each other. Idk just fun ideas.
It's funny in a sad kind of way that offbrand started because streamers had all these big ideas but were too lazy to actually do them, and ended because they were too lazy to even hire a production company to do it for them
oh holy shit that's devastating. offbrand produced so many phenomenal events and productions that was so huge for the creators space, so crushing to hear it's shutting down but know the impact you guys truly had on this space. so many incredible creative individuals, so much love to everybody involved.
It's sad, but I guess just the reality, that the gaming side of the business is more sustainable than the event side. Offbrand hosted a bunch of cool events, sad to see a company that knew gaming culture shut down.
Sad to hear but huge respect to you for making this company and to everyone for giving it ther best
Nothing could ever draw me to a twitch or youtube livestream. I dont have the time nor inclination to watch 7 hours of a stream thats at least 50% dead air. Id rather watch the 20-40 minute highlights edited together.
if all you're concerned about is dead air then it's crazy to think about how you are interacting with people at all
@zantezalighieri how parasocial are you? You cannot compare real life interaction with watching a streamer on a livestream...
@@LordBathtub so chatting with people is not interacting with them?
@kerolokerokerolo my point was watching a stream isn't the same as interacting in person so you can't pretend my issues with streaming are applicable to real life
@@zantezalighieri What a weird take. You're making us zant's look bad my bro.
Event companies need at least 1 of 2 things: to have large events or to have regular events.
Some companies focus on giant events only a few times a year with only a few employees, some contractors, and the rest volunteers, but those are harder to get off the ground. They also need to generate revenue through ticket sales or sponsorships. These event companies tend to be things like conventions groups, which might be for profit or 501(c)3, since large scale ticket sales should heavily outdo expenses (so long as you're smart with hotel block contracts and other things).
I pretty expected this when the discussions about losses from chess boxing were discussed, and how quickly Fast50 was put together. Fast50 didn't have a sustainability plan for how much was being expensed vs the potential drought afterwards, as it was last minute, had incredibly limited ticket sales, and was during 2 other smaller speedrunning events people had already planned for. It wanted the coziness of old Summit tournament, but the production of something larger, and that doesn't work.
Probably wouldn’t have changed the outcome, because of the demographic of streamers. But, In hindsight the company became more of a marketing agency more than anything else Where consumers should expect to loose money and gain followers rather than pay an amount and gain more cash than they put in.
Hey Lud I think a great way to help the people that were laid off is to give them resources to update and or make new resumes. Tbh thats the worse part of job hunting and it would make their lives a lot easier. Something they can do over the holidays.
you made the flat earth society angry with that outro
didn't know your company was a co-op. that's cool as hell.
Ludwig is spot on about the initial investment not exactly being all that matters when you do an event. I remember Ludwig doing the subathon but I never watched or during that event. I started when mogul money live took off, and I loved watching and that’s what eventually led to me being a fan. I can’t be the only one this happened to, really sad to see off brand go down like this, I know it was something Ludwig was passionate about
I was here for world's greatest cause I love watching the competition especially Tenz's pov during it
You’re an exceptionally inspirational creator, and whilst this sucks ass, I’m excited what rises out of this situation and see what you do next. Keep your head up
thank you for trying luddy!
we appreciate the efforts, here is to hopes that you're able to put something of this caliber together in the future!
the community could really use another 'beyond the summit'
People are moving towards the younger streamers like faze and amp.
Now he can go back to living under Hasan's streaming desk full time
It sucks but contractors are usually better and cheaper than having employees unless you explicitly need people day to day. At the end of the day, companys need to make money or there's no point.
I'm favoured, $27K every week! I can now give back to the locals in my community and also support God's work and the church. God bless America.
As a beginner what do I need to do? How can I invest,on which platform? If you know any please share.
Yes! I'm celebrating £32K stock portfolio today...
Started this journey with £3K.... I've invested no time and also with the right terms, now I have time for my family an…
I'm glad to write her tay I do hope she will help handle my paycheck properly☺️☺️☺️
Can I start with as low as $1,000?
Please who is this Mrs Olivia
An awesome streamer event that you could take notes from is Sajam’s fighting game slams. It allowed for streamers to still have their own communities/chats while giving viewers the opportunity to intermingle, and it has the direct engagement element that you’re looking for. Well wishes to the folks at off brand events, hopefully they all land on their feet.
far be it for me to assume how streaming works when I'm a nobody, but I disagree that one of the reasons events don't work is because of a lack of chat/viewer interaction/agency - I think more than anything, if you're going to watch Chessboxing for one particular fight or something, the chances are you're already part of the community surrounding that event, for example. I think most of chat doesn't care that their voice isn't heard through direct streamer interaction, it's just moreso you're not inviting more people into the space that weren't already going to watch the events. Maybe I'm completely wrong on that, idk - it is really sad to see and hear though
Good on you for properly crunching the numbers and taking the truth on the chin. It's the best for everyone.
Everything content related bleeds $$$$$
Except ads.
khaby lame
Online space is trash for money unless its individuals
Yeah I love Ludwig and I loved alot of the events put on, but I could've told you 2 years ago that it's not a sustainable business model. When I learned that Offbrand was a full company separate from Ludwig just getting events put together, I think my initial thought was "how is there enough of a market to provide for the employees needed for that kind of business," and it turns out there wasn't. I hope the employees find new opportunities soon.
That feeling when your company full of friends folds because you were too busy protecting and glazing hasan rather than helping your real buddies out
Sad to see the production shut down as I feel it was a perfect blend of professional and amature/casual feel to the events. My favourite event was Fast50 with the Beerio Kart World Cup coming second and I hope you keep doing them as these things feel a bit more timeless with the production quality that goes into them as I mostly watch VODs.
You may want to remove their emails from the spreadsheet. (Unless they are all business emails but they don't appear to be)
I’m sure the employees on that list informed offbrand that they wanted to be included on it and provided the contact info that they wanted listed
I looked at it and couldn't see the thing that made u believe that. Care to elaborate on why u think they aren't business emails?
It's too bad because I remember OTK hiring random production companies for events and everything was super scuffed, it seemed like there was an actual need for streamer event production teams that know what they're doing, but I guess the money just wasn't there. Best of luck to everyone involved.
How does a co-opt fire employees without a vote?
the only question I have is if you shut down offbrand production entirely. If so, I think a better solution was keeping skeleton crew and focusing on consultation work and act as a contractor based agency, where depending on scope, you hire as much personal as needed on tasks-to-do basis.
That way, heads of production, design or smth smth could focus on helping other production studious to do their events, cause ur events slapped. And if need arises, hire people to do own events, even those who were previously on offbrand production team, but were fired.
but I might be missing smth.
props for the transparency as always
Hahaha u rly think that he is good at showing transparency??
All the love to the team and thank you for everything they did
Sucks that it didn't work out the way you wanted but at least you tried
The corporation that I work for would give me max 1 month sevvy so this is quite generous of luddy
Hasan glazing starts at 0:00
lolz
He's gotta point, the majority of streaming audiences are there for the streamer not the show which sucks because it really does prevent innovation on the platform beyond a certain point. Kai Cenat is probably the best example of how far you can take streaming, but it's still just a version of what has already been established.
I just got laid off before Christmas too. I got a severance also. They could have laid me off as soon as they made the decision to restructure but they waited for some reason. Unless as soon as you found out you told the employees…. It’s still scum bag shit. It’s a failure on multiple levels. I’m a fan Ludwig but I do not like mfs who lay off right before Christmas.
I really like this kind of Ludwig. Usually I feel like we see the upbeat funny guy, but this is sort of the business man Ludwig. And I fell like it’s so real. I sometimes forget you run these other businesses and your not just a guy who sits in your room streaming 😂
So it’s really cool to see what your like running a business and making these sorts of decisions
Offbrand got like 3 customers. Connor,Ludwig and QT.
99% of streamers don't give a heck about doing events that demands leaving their rooms
They also did events with DougDoug, Jerma, and xQc (with Ludwig for Juiced) but yeah it unfortunately seems that most streamers don't want to the the risk on a big event when they could instead keep a steady income with their normal streams
@@iIIiteratex a business can't rely on a guys streams.
This entire business was a terrible idea.
The punchline here is that he made this company so the people he had hired would have job security after he eventually stopped streaming.
Wait so is Jerma free again?
He stepped away from Offbrand 6 months ago, I think he's got personal stuff to deal with rn
Jesus Christ. He's out there again..
crazy pyrocynical turned made his reaction to this an hour long
This makes sense… Ludwig wants to make events and has the money to burn on them… his company (Offbrand) isn’t just him and does need to stay afloat…
So if Ludwig it’s putting all the money to make the events, then he should take the credit (and risk) of them
I don't know if it is necessarily about taking the credit for them because any of the major events were already pretty much credited to him. I think it is more about the workers need to have a liveable salary and he can't make that work unless they did contract work like he mentioned but then they still wouldn't have gauranteed steady work/income
This isn't about taking credit... i doubt Ludwig or anyone has a problem sharing credit with production because they know how valuable the production side is.... this is about employee cost and the frequency of contracts... Offbrand and Ludwig were hoping they could change the Live Streaming landscape and move more to a professionally produced medium like Traditional Television... sadly sitting in front of your computer screaming at the screen is still preferred by most viewers so there was little incentive for big Creators to move to larger productions
@@themainguy5241 Yeah and when it comes to "Events" they don't really happen everyday and its either monthly or yearly..If lucky there will be like 3+ events in 1 month but after that....nothing....no profit earning, money draining because you know, you still need to pay salary to your employee...throughout the end of the year.
So, doing contract salary is better but its not stable income so they need to find another job.
Producing events is hard. Hope it all works out. Good on you for making it right with the employees. I work in production and it is the first industry to me hit in tough times. Looking forward to the next events.
Why would we care?
💯💯💯
I mean, no offense, but anyone could have seen this was the case ahead of time. The only big creators that really do big events are Lud and QT. Kai and MrBeast have their own crews. This might have worked better if they had secured some recurring quarterly events before they decided to found a company around producing them.
I feel like off brand only catered to like 30 people in order for that type thing to be successful they would have to had start doing like wedding planning or corporate events in addition to just streamer events but just doing creator events is shooting yourselves in the foot from the start
To be fair, they also did ads and stuff for some companies like KFC and Marvel Snap and a couple of Redbull events but yeah those definitely weren't their primary customers
This makes a lot of sense bc I swear every event they’d talk about loosing 100k-200k dollars
Glad to see mogul mail is back!
Edit: Nevermind
Awesome events you guys put on, bummer we couldn't keep it going in the way that it was. Hope everyone who was involved in the projects keeps getting work in the industry either continuing with Ludwig and his people in some way or in another creator or company that wants to do cool stuff with the same involvement as a worker co-op.
As someone who works in the live entertainment industry, I feel for y'all. Hoping that your employees can find good jobs elsewhere.
i am a random that knows nothing about the industry, but i think it’s about it being personality and talent forward. like i think mogul money was rlly successful cause it’s flashy and a proper set but also still very natural and down to earth, compared to streamer games which has moments of personality but is ultimately people competing with commentary in the big moments. or like greatest gamer, i see connor eats pants for like 20 mins over the stream but the majority is rlly funny commentary (but i’m a melee player so i am biased) but not talent forward.