Don’t Get Caught Up in the Camera Specs | Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- A lot of RUclipsrs were disappointed by Blackmagic Design’s announcement of the Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K. I was a little underwhelmed until I saw test footage from the camera and the price. You can see links to test footage below:
OF TWO LANDS
• New BLACKMAGIC CINEMA ...
MATTEO BERTOLI
• BMCC6K Full Frame CAME...
As a working professional who's been shooting for almost a decade, I can say the majority of folks in these forums have no ideas what these specs really mean. I stretch every camera I have to the max. I know when I'm really being held back by my equipment. Shooting docs will push all of your gear to the limit. Most of these cameras generally are in the same league so it comes down to specific workflows. I always tell these kids the same thing. Once you understand the exposure triangle, composition and how to get good audio the camera becomes so much smaller in terms of importance.
We didn't have 10bit budget anything when I started shooting. You had 8 stops of usable DR and 8bit colors with no log. You had to know your crap, or your image was toast.
Bruuuuuhhhhhhhh... u came into this conversation with Thor's Hammer.
This was unexpectedly useful, thanks. It was refreshing hearing you voice your thoughts about real world use and the image in your mind, rather than falling for the marketers' psychological misdirection when they tug at your FOMO insecurities! Not that I'm in any way immune, but I think you bring the conversation back nicely to the real issue - for me at least - which is, what's my vision and will this camera realise it? The more I look at the footage of this camera, the more I think that extra bit of three dimensional 'pop' is really something worth having. Maybe 90% of viewers will not even see it... but the difference is there... and I am sure they will feel it.
@neurojitsu I absolutely agree!
Great points. I'm excited to get my hands on one soon. When you get yours please share some footage especially with some Xeen glass.
Thanks 🙏 We haven’t decided for sure, but if we do we’ll be testing all of our equipment out for our upcoming feature. Lots and tests!
I’m super stoked and pre ordered one the day Grant announced it. I’ve loved the 6k Pro and all my kit will work perfectly (glad it’s not a box) and, and, and.. I shoot L mount for my stills so I can now use some of my KILLER Leica, Sigma & Lumix glass and a $25 adapter lets me use my existing EF mount lenses too. Finally have cinematic DOF too. I can’t wait. Totally loved your thoughts.
Thank you! I hope you enjoy it!
Hi great analys. For myself as a heavy L mount user I am happy with BM getting into L mount alliance.
Matteo got the 6K org because he hates the NDs of the 6K pro...and he don't like the camera (he even sens it back to BM)and he was really vocal about it and open...so I think when he says that the 6K Full Frame footage is one of the best I think we could trust him.
I am shooting myself with 3 S5 org and 2 BMPCC4K,6K and I got Ninja V and Videoassist recorders...and the footage from S5 raw true hdmi is amazing.
Personally for documentary I would go with S5iiX paired with video assist 12G to record Vlog Braw wich is a very good codec log and you can have amazing image with it .
It has great IBIS AF and low light.
I love shooting with my 6K org and 24-105 canon L is 4 I think this lens make run and gun shooting style with Blackmagic possible...I wonder how it will be with the Blackmagic full frame so maybe I will switch and instead of the S5iiX I will get the new BM...so better to wait
I've been shooting commercial and narrative for 10 years. I don't care one bit about the form of the camera or the rolling shutter. I do care about the post workflow a lot and the final image. That's where BM shines. Everything just works. BRAW is amazing and that new sensor looks like it can create some amazing images. I don't care what some RUclipsr says who is a "filmmaker" with literally zero credits on IMDB. This thing is going to sell like hotcakes in the real indie filmmaking community. Super excited to use anamorphics on this one (kinda of a bonus for me!)
@relaxwithme3266 Thanks for sharing! 🙏
Pocket 4K was the first video camera I could really work with. When it came out, it sent shockwaves through the market. I've loved that camera and the 6K Pro took the offering a big step up in terms of image quality and the internal ND's.
The new sensor brings another step up in terms of image quality, but I believe that if they want to make another splash, adding AF would do that. It's all that Sony users ever talk about, and I definitely see the advantages having worked with A7siii and 6K Pro side by side.
Sony got. Crazy small lenses ;)
I couldn't agree more. I think your take on this is spot on. Is this the perfect camera for everybody's workflow. Maybe not, but honestly no camera is. The fact is this is a lot of camera for $2,600 - period. For me it always starts with the color and picture quality. That is why I fell in love with the original BMCC 2.5k, and still have one even though it is kinda a pain. The Ursa 12K sensor and picture quality kinda made me sit up and get excited. But I wanted to wait for a smaller form factor. I realize the BMCC 6k does not have the same sensor, but the color, texture and feel in the footage from Flo and Matteo kinda has some of the same magic as the 12k. I can't even totally quantify it as of yet, but I am impressed / intrigued and look forward to seeing more. And it has me considering retiring my OG BMCC for the first time.
I have a friend who shot a web series on the 2.5K and loved it. I was really impressed by the detail on the early test footage. It’s really immersive too for up close shots.
yup, still got the OG 4k also and i love it
What's miffing off many cinematographers and documentary film makers is that it's not the full frame sensor but the L mount which not everyone has in their arsenal to fully accommodate as not every lense performs the same not to mention the absence of built-in ND filters and adapters. So yes the downside is that unlike the BMPCC 6k Pro is that it doesn't accommodate built-in ND filters and that with the BMPCC 6k pro G2 as it doesn’t accommodate stabilisation on that basis.
However a good gimbal courtesy from Dji is a no brainer plus the latest edition of Davinci Resolve that is included as standard for post production that can easily remedy this issue of stabilisation and ofcoarse for LUTS in post etc.
Overall this is a camera that is ideal for cinematic interior and close-up shots in my opinion that is tailored for those in achieving that more anamorphic look and it is one that really packs a punch. Although a Tilta Mirage Matte box or similar equipped with a good appropriate v-lock battery is a must for this camera as one would expect whilst out in the field or on set as the battery drainage on the New Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6k (FF) is pretty much roughly the same as it's two predecessors, that being the BMPCC 6k Pro and the BMPCC 6k Pro G2 respectively!
It is perhaps too early to tell yet when this new edition of the BMPCC 6k family starts to raise many more eyebrows but as for bang for buck is concerned then it's a no brainer in my opinion. Although as for me a can't complain since the launch of BMPCC 6k Pro which for me personally given my budget constraints is ideal for those run and gun shoots which makes the ultimate B-cam atleast. Although the Black Magic Cinema Camera 6k (Full-Frame) is potentially a camera that can blow many of it's rivals out of the water aslong as one bares in mind the pros and cons and the limitations of what the NEW Black Magic Cinema Camera 6k can do!
Agreed its all about the shot, composition and an individuals ability in Post Production. Blackmagic Cameras deliver incredible images, particularly for the price-they can NOT be beaten. Anyone who says different is probably more reliant on their gear than their talent...
I must say that your delivery,and your view on ideas was and is great.thank you for bringing clarity for one to make a proper decision
Thank you 🙏
Jumped into the BMD-sphere back when COVID hit with the P4K. Have been eyeing an upgrade to either a 6k pro or even an Ursa mini the past year or so. I was pretty excited when they announced this cam. My dream, since starting with a t3I, has been to own a full frame sensor. I'm so sick of ANY crop, S35, APS-C, MFT. That alone for me was worth the preorder. You make a good note about the price point. I think the for images that are being uploaded since the announcement by OTL and Matteo and the price of the camera, I think this is a steal. All of the whining I've been seeing online about the lack of NDs and the Rolling shutter are so deafening. Its refreshing to see a reasoned and logical take!
Thank you 🙏
Yeah i have shot dozens of projects, mostly commercials and documentaries. Some of them award winning. A lot shot on a combination of Black Magic Production 4K and for the past couple years on the pocket 4k of which i have 3 of now. I have been waiting to upgrade and i to have thought about the investment of a 12k. but now i think i will go for this now 6k full frame. My first camera was a Panasonic DVX-100b on which i shot paid professional projects on, then moved on to the Canon Mark3. The DVX 100b cost me about $4000 at the time on it release. I don't think many persons understand what Black Magic is offering them. As much as persons complained about having to shoot on a micro 4/3 pocket, i adjusted how i shot and it never disappointed me. All these youtubers get caught up in technical specs sometimes not realizing that its about understanding how to use you camera and knowing its limitations and strong points and knowing how to use it to your advantage. The content and production values of what you are creating will always trump specs.
Yes!
I love the Pocket 4k. It reminds me of Super16. It's a great look. And I have had one for years. I've just pre ordered the full frame. Excited to get it out into the field. I agree that people don't understand how great this camera is especially for the price. 12 bits in 4:4:4 for that price? That's just nuts. And the anamorphic mods. The colour. Seemingly great DR. So odd that people complain and then go back to shooting Sony or Canon with inferior color science and terrible post production experience.
I have the original Panasonic S5. You can get one for less than $900 now. Crazy. Amazing image. Anamorphic support. Excellent dynamic range. Etc... And I use mainly old manual lenses. People preoccupied with autofocus... Okay. ;) Spend those dollars. Cool video. Thanks for sharing.
S5 with that raw 6k is a beast. Unbeatable value for sure.
@@kevinbatts2804 amen
Me too! I just got another original S5, the only thing I want is internal NDs
More people should know about the Lumix S range. You get the full-frame sensor and open gate with the L-mount... but also amazing stills features, stabilisation, and a nice form factor. You can even record externally to BRAW, though that is another investment. Meanwhile, Panasonic's own colour science is excellent. Impossible to beat these hybrid cameras from a price-performance perspective.
Spot on. I’ll be buying one!
I really liked it, but the thing that worries me is the rolling shutter at 25ms. I had struggle a lot with a Sony a6500 before, i sold it because of rolling shutter issues in my footage. Now i have a Pocket 4k for years that have 16ms rolling shutter, and never have issues. And the footage from those Blackmagic cameras are amazing.
If you shoot 4k, RS is 17ms.
@@RamasArrow but if it works like the pocket 4k, its gonna have crop in 4k Braw, unless they did something like the Ursa 12k.
For indie filmmakers BMPCC and this new one are hard to beat. I'm working on a doc with multiple cameras. Ursa mini pro G2, BMPCC 6K pro, Sony, Red, Canon - why? Because people in different places have different gear but we trust them to get the shots.
I have been very happy with the black magic as our A cam . The BRAW, the edit, the color, the dynamic range, it's all good. Running a v-mount (which you'd be doing on a box camera) and it runs all day. Screen, menus, audio interface...great stuff.
I will happily buy this and have enough left over for a good lens or three.
I was on the fence until I saw Matteo's footage (day and night, city, nature, etc - all looks GREAT) - I know he's good at what he does and could probably take good pics with a fisher price camera but I was convinced.
Thanks for the echo!
Thanks for sharing! I’ve been watching all of his videos. The footage looks great, even at night.
Thank you so much for this video! I found a used one (not pro version) and im highly considering this even though i was hooked on auto focus but now considering learning manual as it will make me a better filmmaker. I’m new and this would be my first pro camera outside of my iphone 11 haha. I have done 5 weddings with my iphone 11 and gimble and want a pro camera and I use davinci resolve so it would help greatly. I’m not in photos much and want to do just video mostly so thinking this would be great first camera to learn on. I was looking at a sony A7iii or A7c because of their features which there is atleast 3 big features in those that BM doesn’t have but now im thinking this would be better for me and what i need it for which is mostly weddings and other product videos. I want my post work to be easier and highly value that part as its the most time consuming thing
Sony makes great cameras too. I like Blackmagic for projects where you can control the action more. Sony could be gear for weddings because autofocus can help a lot for events. No bad choices!
I own the 4k and the 6k pro. Always loved the BM colour science and the highlight roll off. Also watched Mattheo`s footage, which is pretty nice. But is it really that step further? Hmmm....
well said. I'm glad Blackmagic joined the L mount alliance. You'll now see a ton of new products designed for the L mount - for example - EF adapter with ND filter.
for your friend - I'd recommend a Lumix s5iix with a b-raw recorder. The b-raw on the S5iiX behaves exactly like the internal b-raw now.
Thank you!
Use whatever camera that works for you and your project.
BMD has been known to under represent their sensors in tech in my opinion 😅, also I think people are under valuing the camera 2 edit bay system because of their anger & other updates beyond that are gonna be interesting, yes if the gave people cube it might have been better tho they might be waiting for NAB for that I am soso on that formfactor truthfully, 18.6 is great regardless 😅
Very insightful review, where thoughts lie as an independent filmmaker embracing what BMD offers. Affordable, yes...powerful and incredible (more importantly) yes! I have owned every BMD pocket camera, for a reason.
I was just showing the test footage to a filmmaker friend of mine. His comment, “It’s not an Alexa, but it’s clean.” I think he now wants us to use Blackmagic on our next project. 😂
staying positive is the BEST.. nice review!!
Thank you 🙏
Thank you for being honest with your thoughts. There are so many people who review cameras and I believe they either have G.A.S. or are comparing the existing cameras to the golden ideal cameras that does everything perfectly.
I'm with you in the thought process where you buy the cameras which fits your needs. No loyalty to any one brand, shape or size. I run my churches broadcast, and I have an ambition to do small projects and short films soon. Running the weekly live stream doesn't require a $10k camera when I can get the job done with a $2k-$3k setup. Also, if my work flow for streaming is in 1080p, why would I use 4K? It's not only 4x the bandwidth, but it is 4x more resources for everything in the production work flow. Maybe if I knew I was going to need some project in high resolution or detail for editing. But for my weekly work, 1080p 30 or 60 fps is all I need.
To be honest this camera for me is very tempting. Adapt it to my current photographic Canon EF glass and I am already using DaVinci Resolve Studio, along with their ATEM Mini, so this would fit right in to the work flow.
I hope your documentary work goes well and you are able to do many great things with whatever camera you purchase. 😊
Thank you! What cameras/equipment are you using for your church’s live stream?
@@ptfs Currently we are using Canon XA30 and XA55 over SDI to our ATEM Mini Pro ISO.
I am working on upgrading the ATEM Mini Pro ISO to an ATEM Mini SDI Extreme ISO, so I can add in Key/Fill video graphics, expand cameras from 2 to 3 or 4 depending on needs and budget.
The Cameras are good, they work in our environment and offer plenty of features we need for our 6 yr old church. I do plan on changing the Canon XA30 to either a second XA55 or going to XA75 released end of last year. Same sensor with slight manufacturing changes due to parts.
BUT, I if I can rent the BMD CC 6K and it offers everything we need and more. Then the Camera plus a used lenses would be about the same as a Canon XA55 /XA75. Pretty compelling prospect in my opinion.
A friend of mine at a different church shared with me this website talking about using a DJI Gimbal with this APC-R to remote control the Gimbal and their BMD PCC6K they bought. They use 3 cameras on gimbals and all are controlled with Macros by one camera operator. Something I've also be considering since volunteers are sometimes difficult to come by.
www.middlethings.co/apc-r-controller/
To wrap this up, yes this BMD CC 6K price point fits my price point nicely. I do 1080p work flow so having 4K/6K as an option is nice. The ability to adapt any lens mount to make it extremely flexible. The Full Frame is very appealing, compared to my current 1" and 1/2.3" sensors. Plus the Proxy / BRAW / H.264 / H.265 work flow is awesome in my opinion.
Sounds like a great setup. Have you looked into the other Blackmagic cameras like their studio, broadcast, or mini studio?
@@ptfs yes I have. I have considered the Blackmagic design pocket Cinema Camera 6K G2 and the pro version. Those are super 32 sensors which are larger than the 1". And they do take native EF.
I looked into the broadcast series of cameras and I don't remember them impressing me too much. I could probably look at them again especially if the prices have come down.
Regarding the studio cameras I don't like the micro four-thirds lens mount I find personally that I don't think it works very well with low-light situations. So it's not a very good camera outside of full control over your lighting.
One thing I forgot to mention is that my church even though were 6 years old is considered a mobile church cuz we set up and tear down in a gym of an elementary school. We're in the process of trying to build a building in our area and we haven't quite finalized all the details on that yet. So I'm not sure how much longer we'll be in the gymnasium. And we don't have any control lighting at the moment.
And I probably won't be able to buy any cameras until next year whenever budget refreshes. So I'm trying to finish out the atem switcher this year so I'm ready for the next budget cycle.
That makes sense. The new Cinema Camera 6K seems to be doing really well in low light. That’s a lot of work to set up and take down every week, but you do what you gotta do. Good luck!
I still think the pocket 4k is still a good beginner cinema camera. $1,299, $900-$1000 used. I have the 4k I’m going to upgrade to the 6k full frame, once I put some serious mileage on it and develop my craft.
Looks like a lot of the 6k/Pro's are going to come on the market soon..I'm just waiting for the new camera to ship before I sell mine and I thing there are a lot more people like m out there
Remember Folks, Major studio productions and Netflix series are almost all shot in 4k and many still in 2k prores. However an Arri shooting 2k prores4444 is a much better quality pixel but its still only 2k. Theaters project movies in 2k on massive screens although at a much higher bit rate. I really wish Blackmagic would just make a better quality super35 4k sensor. The whole resolution race is silly and a total marketing strategy aimed at young filmmakers. 6k, 8k, 12k ? - give me a break. When I shoot 2k prores on my Alexa with a Master Prime, It looks WAY WAY better than any mega pixel Blackmagic camera I've ever owned, and I've own almost all of them. Blackmagic is a great company with awesome little cameras for the price, I just wished they would drop the whole mega resolution thing and just make a better professional sensor.
@stuffa01 Even most streaming platforms don’t accept films over 2K. Shooting above 2K is really only necessary for special effects work, reframing in post, and future proofing.
@@ptfs yeah I here that “re framing” argument a lot. That actually not done very often at all. And anyone doing any serious special fx work wouldn’t be using a BM camera. But I guess they could.
@stuffa01 I’m sure most productions with a special FX budget are using more expensive cameras, but we do know that Marvel used 6Ks on some of the FX flying shots on Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
I actually would want this camera but I hate the form factor, like really hate it. It’s so weirdly bulky, I’d love them to make it into a box cine camera, it would be a market breaker
@nicolacornolti I’d love to see them put a full frame version of their 12K sensor into a box style Ursa. I think they could even keep the big screen on the back of the BMCC6K if they move all the buttons from the side.
Black magic keeping the same body style is dumb. (Or they didn’t want to sink Money into RND for new fork factor/menu etc.) the original concept for that body style was a compact camera that could shoot cinema quality video. By itself that’s not an issue, but the problem is that the form has gotten bigger and more awkward, while it’s competitors are now smaller while providing competitive image quality.
Considering that most people rig out their cameras anyways, it just doesn’t make sense over a more modular design.
@daesong1378 I also wonder if they want to save money on creating new molds, etc. I know many, many people were disappointed that they didn’t announce a box style camera or something more portable. I wonder if they just didn’t want to cut out the big monitor in the back. If they move it to the side, it’s an URSA. I wish I knew their reasoning. I personally shoot on the 6K Pro and I deal with the form factor whenever I shoot. But I keep going back to the image quality and the price. I love color grading footage shot in BRAW. I’ve been so impressed by the new full frame sensor. For the projects that I make (micro budget feature films), I can deal with the form factor, especially since I can go buy other kit with the money I save. I’m honestly torn, and I’m torn because despite the form factor it’s an incredible camera.
@@ptfs I think it’s still a good camera, and if it were not because I don’t want to invest in L mount lenses right now, there is a high chance I would pick up the 6KFF.
I still have a pocket 4k that I use and I’m still pretty happy with the image quality. But I really do hate the form factor because it doesn’t make sense to me. Especially the 4K because the batteries were awefull, you probably will put a cage to attach a ssd, and a screen so you can shoot outdoors. Most people rig it out anyways, so imagine having the option of just buying a FF camera brain from BM, and using the peripherals that you already own. No need to think about the cost of rigging it out, I already own everything besides a cage,(new camera new cage)
Sorry for the rant. 😭
I'm actually developing an autofocus system (using lidar) for blackmagic cameras
That’s great! We’ve used the DJI system with our 6K Pro before. How is your system going to work?
@@ptfs I actually already have the prototype put together, pretty far in progress too! Basically it's an all-in-one device that mounts on the top of the blackmagic cameras (in my case I use the 6k pro). You're able to store different lenses (their calibration data) into different profiles and select the one depending on what lens you're using. I believe this may be similar to the DJI system of calibration. The all-in-one has a QLED display to also connect to the camera as a monitor, as well as the UI for the system itself. I'm super hyped to show it off someday soon. I know this will be big since it's the only system, other than the DJI gimbal paired with the lidar sensor; that allows you to take the blackmagic cameras literally anywhere without the gimbal. It's completely wireless unless you use the camera monitor functionality. Currently it utilizes the autofocus motors built into lens, but soon I'm hoping to expand support for manual lenses SLR or new. Sorry for the long rant lol, I'm just super excited because no one knows about it yet.
@ruralplayer That sounds like a great product! I’d love to test it out when it’s ready!
It is a flawed camera because of the body. At the end of the day you need work arounds for everything, from batteries to using it in virtual production. Yes, BMD has great image quality, but many of us are hoping that they can step up their game and build an actual cinema camera that fixes some of the flaws of this camera and it's design. Saying that people are complaining is short sighted and myopic. Just the fact that they've built the camera around the NPF battery is stupid for a cinema camera, never mind the host of other issues with the camera.
BMD can do better, and I hope fans of BMD keep pushing them to do better because when they respond to costumer demand that will increase the life span of the company vs a bunch of lemmings who agree with everything they do, while other companies out innovate and sell their products.
What do you think about the Ursa line of cameras?
@@ptfs Great camera, a true cinema camera, but what many were hoping for was something between the Pocket cameras and the Ursa cameras. Something small, compact cinema camera, box body for modularity, and professional I/O--SDI, Genlock, TC, etc. If they had made a small(ish) box camera with the same specs; full frame, but including professional I/O, full size XLR, even if the camera cost 3 or 4 thousand dollars, they'd sell a shit ton. I own two pockets already and see no reason to purchase this just for full frame and the L-mount. What really bothered me about this announcement was when Grant said, there was more room inside the camera to expand the components. I slapped my forehead because it means they could have made the body smaller. They said they wanted to keep the body the same so people could use the accessories they already have available, the clunky accessories they sell that make the camera even less like a cinema camera and more like a DSLR. I think Grant is maybe a bit obsessed with DSLR. I want to love this camera, but maybe I'm a size queen and this body just isn't doing it for me because of what it still misses out on. If you're going to do virtual production, I would stick with the Ursa cameras.
Gooooofy
Good points, product trumps gear every time. Just as an FYI it's not a brand new sensor, it's from around 2018 and is already in the S1H, S5ii (with phase detect AF) as well as the ZCam E2F6, Mavo Edge and more. Some of of those cameras are cheaper and even have more features like IBIS and PDAF. I think people don't think it's bad, it'll get great images. It's just that Blackmagic are joining the full frame cinema 'party' over 3 years late without adding much new to it when they were traditionally thought of as innovators. I've sadly seen Blackmagic slowly loosing their footing in the budget cinema / advertising space over the last few years to Sony and I don't see this helping that. If you're happy with it, that's really great - sounds like you're part of the target market. But it's also OK for others not to think it's all that interesting and even a bit disappointing or 'too little too late'.
Only videographers and content creators get lost in camera specs...real creative minds see all the possible options as different tools for different scenarios.
I make micro budget feature films so my needs are different than other videographers and content creators.
Anyone fan noise issue?
@mizomizo845 I haven’t used the full frame 6K but I have the 6k pro. I hear the fan sometimes, but I record sound from a shotgun or externally and it hasn’t been a problem for me. 🤷🏼♂️
Cant hear you 🤷🏻♂️
Sorry about that
It’s not that bad lol
Same, it's literally inaudible on my phone at max volume
I haven't heard anything. Guess because I didn't go looking for it. Anyways Sony took all my $.
Too much blabbering, nothing new, how about all the problems this camera has?
I love the body style and the fact that i can interchange everything i've already bought, only posers care about a cube, sorry but true
@bonzology322 Cubes are great if you need to fly it on a gimbal. Otherwise … 🤷🏼♂️ I rig up my 6K Pro so it’s not a very small rig and it gets heavy and awkward sometimes but it works for me.
I would also add that anyone using autofocus isn't a film maker
@bonzology322 I personally think that if you make films you’re a filmmaker. I’m in the market of encouraging people to try to go out and make feature films though. Very different needs than for making other types of content.
all these so called "film makers"aka youtubers are fos, they couldn't tell the footage differences between an alexa and bmpcc at any resolution
@bonzology322 Alexa makes a beautiful image but so can a lot of cameras with the right lighting, etc. I’d love to shoot on one, but for now my camera is the BMPCC6K Pro, which also produces a very beautiful image.