Making a Murderer's Jerry Buting on New Evidence, Reddit Theories, & What the Documentary Left Out
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2016
- A celebration erupted in Manitowoc County, Wisconsin on September 11, 2003, as Steven Avery walked out of the prison where he had been locked up for 18 years. Wrongfully convicted of a heinous sexual assault, Avery was ultimately exonerated by DNA testing nearly two decades after his conviction.
Avery sued police and prosecutors for misconduct to the tune of $36 million and was likely to win an enormous judgement. And then 25-year-old photographer Teresa Halbach disappeared after visiting Avery's property.
Along with his nephew Brendan Dassey, Avery was ultimately convicted of mudering Halbach. This saga was the subject of last year's hit Netflix documentary series Making a Murderer, which presented evidence of police misconduct and crime scene tampering, thus casting doubt on the verdicts. The film became a national sensation, and it has been lighting up the internet ever since, including speculation about other possible suspects.
Avery's defense attorneys, Jerry Buting and Dean Strang, won over viewers with their principled and hard-fought defense. They are currently touring internationally, hoping to further the discussion started by the documentary.
Reason TV's Justin Monticello sat down with Jerry Buting to talk about the Avery and Dassey cases, updates since the documentary series aired, and what the cases reveal about the criminal justice system.
INTERVIEW CONTENTS
1:40 - Is Steven Avery innocent?
2:38 - Why no other suspects were presented at trial.
4:15 - Reddit theories on Teresa Halbach's true murderer.
4:44 - Brendan Dassey's trial and false confessions.
7:52 - The role of social media, graphic publicity, and judges in creating biased jurors.
9:39 - Steven Avery's appeals lawyer, Kathleen Zellner, makes bold claims of new evidence.
10:24 - Suspicious activity on Teresa Halbach's voicemail after her death was never investigated.
12:23 - Halbach's bones provide exculpatory evidence that wasn't fully covered in the documentary.
14:43 - Does it matter to defense attorneys if their clients are innocent or not?
15:50 - The perils of ending up like Brendan Dassey's original attorney, Len Kachinsky.
16:18 - What he was thinking when the verdict was read.
17:20 - Carrying the water for honest criminal defense attorneys.
18:12 - Becoming a sex symbol, and what it's like for the family of "sexy Jerry Buting."
18:56 - The top three ways to improve the justice system on the ground.
20:48 - Criminal justice reform in politics and as a grassroots movement.
About 22 minutes.
Produced by Justin Monticello. Shot by Alex Manning and Zach Weissmueller. Additional footage from Making a Murderer (Netflix, 2015).
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Kratz is the dirtiest kind of law enforcer.
Camila Diaz he really is! I couldn't even stand looking at him in the documentary. He was also found out later to have sent sexually harrassing messages to vulnerable women that had been abused WHILE he was prosecuting his case.
Camila Diaz - even his name is crap.
He sent a nun a unsolicited dick pic so yea. I agree
@Rabbit Snare alot is wrong with it and it's not funny... good try though
"Sometimes you can judge a book by its cover. "
- random internet meme
“Who shot her in the head?”...”he did.”....”why didn’t you just tell us that?”...”cause I didn’t think of it.” Not that he didn’t know, or didn’t remember. He didn’t “think of it.” He was unable to imagine that scenario, because it never happened.
That is a logical analysis...
Very good point!!
Honestly .... how would that cop know she was shot in the head ??? If no body was recovered.... that's pretty strange huh
Nah, he still thought he was going to walk out of there....lol.....and he drew pictures of the scene in detail.
@@wildbill8362 you wouldn't draw pictures of the "scene" if you were charged with that? You know just to try and see what you can prove you didn't do? I know I would especially if I didn't do it
Here is what I have never understood. Avery was convicted of having murdered Halbach in his garage. Ok fine. Dassey was convicted of having murdered Halbach in the bedroom. Even if they are both guilty, Halbach did not die twice. Yet, two separate juries rendered guilty verdicts for the death of the same woman in different locations. How is that possible?
Thissss 👏👏👏
And lawyers have been trying to get this loop hole closed for YEARS
from what I've seen in the videos, they claimed that she did not die in bed, she was just cut and hand cuffed. ( Dr. Phil Show). But I believed he's innocent.
the question that puzzled me was, why would someone spend 18 yrs in jail get let out and then kill someone.. having all the evidence in his back yard and her car key in his room is a tad suspicious.. strange..
Well who doesn't own even one pair of underwear? lol sorry
Strange indeed. Also, SA has a documented IQ of 70 - and yet we are to believe he is able to completely wipe any DNA evidence from the trailer AND the garage... But then leave the car in his backyard with a few branches covering it up? It's asinine.
frankly jail doesn't scare some that much and some are just really fucked in the head. It's like nobody's heard of a murderer who can seem innocent amongst the public and try to cover his tracks..
Oh golly gee, he's done it again! Old Stevie got himself another darn rape conviction!!! Doh!! The guys been living in jail cells throughout his whole life, he was probably missing those late-night jail snuggles!
in the first episode it's announced avery has a 70 IQ, dolt. Rewatch it.
there is reason to believe he could have an antisocial personality disorder (for instance, he had a history of mutilating animals), which could make someone kill without reasonable motive, he could have killed her just for his thrill of killing her
Theresa was the only photogrpaher working for Auto Trader in that area. He doesnt say send Theresa Halbach, he says send that girl that always comes out here.
In the trial it was proven Avery had many times called halbach personally (described by auto trader as a hussle shot.. one where they dont set up an appt through the office) and asked for her services.. so why on the day of her murder would he call into an office to set up an appt and leave an obvious trail if he was planning to murderer her when it has been proven he could have called her personally. Maybe he had misplaced her number, called auto trader and asked for the photographer to come out, wrote down her number on that now infamous shot.
She was not lured. She knew exactly where she was going. In the trial transcripts the defence destroys this 'luring' theory by prooving that Teresa NEVER said she was freaked out by Avery but that she said 'ew' to having seen him in a towell. The judge didnt even allow this to be added as evidence for the jurors to hear as Teresa's co worker could not remember when in the past few months this was said meaning teresa didnt say it upon completion of her 2nd to last appt with steven avery, but also acknowledged she and teresa laughed about it during the conversation. As Teresa had done several photo shoots for Avery in the past she knew what the address was, so the argument of him using a fake name to lure her... to the same adress... on Avery rd...is bonkers.
There is a "questionable stain", that tested positive for blood, recovered from the quarry. A DNA profile was developed that matched a male and it did not match SA, Brendan Dassey. The stain is labelled as item CX. You can find it in Exhibit 313. A full DNA profile was developed and never followed up on.
Her remains were moved to that burn pit. They were charred to a point that the heat required to burn the bones would have burnt his garage down. A state expert who was obviously not involved with the framing but who knew what was going on testified that he was not called to the scene during the excavation (which is his job), where workers did not follow protocol and impose a grid for the excavation which would have been one way to categorically prove the bones were not moved. But nope, they excavated with shovels and put all the bones into one single box. A complete lack of forensic organazation that of course makes it difficult to disprove that Steven's burn pit was the primary burn pit. Why do it that way? Because if they did impose a grid and excavated the body properly they would have easily been able to tell the body had been dumped there - burned somewhere else and moved. Only one of her teeth survived a fire that destroyed something like 50% of bone mass and all dna evidence. But according to Kratz, some flesh on her shin bone survived the fire. One thing to know. Teeth outlast bone in a fire, and they FAR OUTLAST flesh. They should have found more than one tooth and the one tooth they did find was not a 100 % match... why?
Google: Email Kratz Sherry Culhane and the first thing to come up is an email that has been released between Ken Kratz and Sherry Culhane in which he states the FBI never positively identified the bones as Theresa Halbachs remains and he himself, was careful not to say that to anyone, but that public perception of whose bones they were would be enough for trial.
All of this 'evidence' coming out after the documentary became popular is all from an email sent to people magazine by kratz. Other than the bogus "sweat DNA" and Steven's phone calls, the email is filled with circumstancial material that wasnt allowed at trial. But of course Kratz knows it will damage public opinion if people just take it as they have been spoon fed.
it is painfully obvious the blood (Steven's blood) from the RAV 4 was planted. Kathleen Zellner will be able to prove this by means of a new test: DNA Methylation. It will not depend on the presence of EDTA but on determining the age of the person when the blood was exposed to air. If she can prove that the blood in the car came from say a young Avery then we know the blood came from that vial and was planted which would be grounds for exoneration.
I dont know if he is innocent. I feel he is but the point of the documentary is that the avalanche of police miscoduct and lack of any real investigation should have made it impossible to come to a verdict of guilty BEYOND A RESONABLE DOUBT. Alas, the jury was not impartial and who knows what kind of tampering had taken place.
And I wont even bother to defend Brendan because I think the little bits wee see in the documentary are truly probably the most disturbing thing I have ever seen in my entire life. It was a form of abuse and as for what his own defence investigator did to him... mental torture. I had a hard time watching it. I agree with his new defence, the actions of his previous defence invrstigator traumatized him. Its traumatizing to even see let alone experience.
And the bigger point I think the filmmakers would stand behind is that this was in no way fair. I didnt even mention once that a huge percentage of the key evidence was found by or was in possession of manitowoc county. The very county who Steven was about to successfully sue for violation of his constituional rights. The same officers who it was reported would not be involved in the investigation due to the conflict of interest. It boggles the mind how this fact isnt enough for a retrial.
Nice read. good sum up.
good analysis
I read in People, not the best source, about the towel episode and how she said he "freaked her out". It's obviously hear say, but was it really said or rumor or just made up?
All in all it, it doesn't matter. Except in the case of public opinion, I suppose.
+jenny misteqq she spoke to coworkers and had no fears to go to the property!
+Carolyn Porter thanks for your comment! I did say that People magazine wasn't the most reliable source! Just one more instance of stacking the deck against Avery, huh.
I just watched the documentary and the way the coerced the nephew was disgusting, deplorable, reprehensible and anyone with half a brain could tell that kid did nothing ...how can those cops sleep at night, how can their wives ever look them in the eyes or how can their collegues look at them and say " good work"
A judge vacated Dassey's conviction 2 days ago.
Don't forget the fact that due to them locking up an innocent man a rapist was still free harming more innocent women. That is on them too!
Rabbit Snare it would be a momentous feat of they managed to edit this story into making the cops look bad when they werent, considering how nearly every time they were questioned they changed their stories, backpedaled, and had to elaborate further to fit the defensive attorneys own elaboration on how they were clearly lying about even basic information. Steven Avery may or may not be guilty, I can get how you can edit the footage to support him, but it is literally impossible to have unfaithfully spun these cops in a bad light, their corruption is as clear as date. If Steven Avery is so guilty, why wasn't it such an open-shut case, why did they fail so hard that there's so much doubt and indisputable counter evidence showing that they're lying? You'd think it'd be easy. You'd think at the very least you could focus on how evil Steven supposedly was, yet they insist a certain piece of evidence is true in interviews, which were uncut, unedited, and completely their own words, then they use it in court like it's super solid evidence, and then they get pressed, and after insisting the defense is lying or asking the judge to stop defences point, they say "yeah well okay it didn't really happen THAT way", and they have to change the story to admit they weren't lying so much that they can't even use it as a point at the end of the day, and then they stop using it altogether. This was the pattern, over and over. This is how you persecute someone who is so evil you'd think his crimes were obvious? By building an easily punctured web of lies/halftruths? There's a reason this documentary exists, the fishiness is overwhelming.
Rabbit Snare Well those points are interesting, some are a bit of a stretch and some seem accurate. One interesting thing though, I totally thought you were lying when you said the purple tube is supposed to have a hole. Reason why is that the defense asked if that was normal, and the expert on trial said it wasn't. Why would they say that if it was a lie, and a lie that didn't help them? That's what I'm saying, the cops are being very strange, they make me and many others incredibly suspicious. Even the direct, unedited footage brings the same feeling. I don't get how you can see that colborn interview, from MaM or the court itself, and not think "this guys hiding something". And then there's the one with where the specialist insists the body wasn't moved based on evidence, and then the defense points out how the bones show where and tear, and she says it might've been something else, he points out how the shoveled bones idea has credence, and then she says its possible they were moved. What the fuck? What is going on? That kind of shit happened so much I can't even keep track of each individual time. No sign of malpractice in our search : so the keys where on the floor? Did you plant them because x doesn't make sense? : No, uh, they probably just fell off the shelf. : so they fell, would it be standard practice to shake a scene so much that evidence moves? : No, infact it was actually pretty rough. Well done and proffessional >into> too rough, in just a few steps from the defense. If he is guilty, the cops either tampered for some reason, or they're incredibly incompetent, or they're the lowest confidence police force and will lie like Brendan, a mentally below average minor.
I am pretty sure the cops were on the hook for the money and to say he tried to help avery is not proven as the information is coming from someone who if he did not say that looks like he would be perverting the course of justice. I mean come on they get a call about someone confessing to the crime and did no follow up considering someone was doing a long time for a crime they may not have committed, i am sorry but he did not try to help at all.
I also found the demeanor of her brother and ex boyfriend Ryan Hillegas to be very suspect. When being questioned out in the field they were stuttering and stumbling all over each other repeating what the other said.
so true!
That is exactly what I said and the brother was talking about moving on before they even knew she was dead.....weird.
moreso Ryan Hillegas who had scratches all over his hands..very suspicious but he said it was from the search for teresa that he got his hands scratched by bushes and brambles.
He didn't report her missing until 3 or 4 days later after her mom called him looking for her. He said some bullshit, mom got suspicious, then she was reported missing. If the woman I live with didn't come home from work, I'd call her work, her friends, her family, everybody looking for her. If nobody had seen her and she didn't come home by late that night, I'd report her missing. Definitely the next morning at latest. I wouldn't wait until her parents were asking "Where the fuck is she at?" to report her missing.
Plus he lied and said he was never on the Avery property during the search, during an interview with the media. Also hacked her cellphone account and deleted some of her voicemails.
I agree. The first thing I thought when I saw them speak was "this to me seems like crisis actors". And I'm in no way a supporter of Alex Jones' mentality. But they didn't seem authentic. Then I started thinking...."maybe this whole murder is a hoax. Fake identities, fake murder, real life sentence for Avery, no payout suit." If the cops in that crooked town had the power to plant evidence, what else are they capable of?
Am I the only one that watched Making a Murderer? They talk about the erased voicemail messages and don’t follow up with Halbach’s ex-bf who said he had been using his computer with her roommate and had guessed her VM password. Umm....wtf
And I always wondered why they would even erase voicemails and you don’t hack cellphone records to locate someone and then just decide hey let’s delete the voicemails of a missing person….what? And whhhyyyy did the roommate have a daily planner that Teresa couldn’t have left at her place because there wasn’t enough time. And honestly in this culture when officers already have so much negativity, why would these officers be so deliberately biased and hostile? Do you not care about your other fellow officers in the rest of the country or about Teresa and the gross mishandling of this entire case? An innocent young woman has her life, brutally cut short and Ken Kratz writes a sleazy tell all “trash” novel. Ya, real classy dude 🙄
If he did it or not EVERYONE should be outrage that a conviction was made by this trial! It is laughable how inept the prosecution and county was and still got a conviction. GOD HELP US ALL if this is the "standard" for proving guilt.
This makes me wonder if EVERYONE should be wearing body cameras to protect yourself from unjust prosecution.
Pee Jay
For Sure !
the "standard" may be even worse, as disturbing as it sounds. the best protection i know of from unjust prosecution is amzn.to/2UtWIbD and amzn.to/3dIQUCM.
I am so glad I don't live in the US but if I was living there I would wear a bodycam 24/7 just to be sure nobody accuses me of anything what a deplorable justice system.
Kratz on pills prosecuting.That is the "same" as drunk driving,you end up hurting others.Kratz bloated ego uuses out from the tv screen like slime and his overbearing tone and way of talking to others make me want to hit something.He a sexaddict,He belong behind bars after a solid knock out by 1 of those he has wrongfully hurt with his arrogance and dishonesty
I just recently watched the Netflix series...
What I don't understand is IF Avery committed this crime, and is smart enough to clean the garage/house so well, why would he leave the blood in the car?
BETTER YET, why put the car in the side-yard? And then bring the key home, and throw it in his room?
Doesn't make any sense.
If the cops had Teresa's corpse, why not just bleed it and spread her blood around wherever they want?
Her DNA was not on her own car key. How is that possible? Something that she handled every day multiple times a day and she didn't leave any dead cells on it? Come on? This case is ridiculous.
I'll go one further...
Has anyone ACTUALLY checked whether that key ACTUALLY starts her car?
That could be an explanation for total lack of any trace of her?
Also, has anyone checked the bullet hole size in the skull? Was it a 22?
If it isnt, then by definition, the bullet was planted.
Either way. There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE AT ALL that she ever set foot in his home. Even the key doesnt prove that.
The evidence says she was attacked at the rear of her car, put inside it, shot, dismembered and burned and the remains scattered in several locations.
The evidence shows he was in front of her car.
That's ALL it shows.
There is NO EVIDENCE of WHERE, WHEN OR HOW SHE WAS KILLED, let alone WHO did it.
Since no coroner was called and no photos taken and at least 5 burn sites, there is no way to know IF ANY of them was the primary burn site.
All the evidence makes Brendan dassey's confession- BY DEGINITION - FALSE.
so no matter whether people believe he did it or not. They MUST conclude that the prosecution theory is UTTERLY wrong. That is REASONABLE DOUBT. Since the prosecution have not proved what actually happened.
Krapz is a master at worming his way out of difficult questions that cast doubt on his bullshit theory.
@@boudecia22 don't forget that the coroner was actually *_blocked_* from visiting the alleged crime scene. www.stloiyf.com/blog
Agreed
And where were her house keys ?
Most people attach the house and car keys together on the same keyring.
Odd how her ex boyfriend moves into her house. I wonder who's keys he is using. ?
@@boudecia22 T
Honestly it doesn't even matter if he's guilty or innocent, it comes down to reasonable doubt. If I were on that jury, I would have reasonable doubt. That's it, I'm not saying he's innocent but I'm not sure he's guilty either so that's not enough to commit to a guilty verdict.
Yea, but you wouldn't have heard everything you did hear on that documentary had you been a juror. The major problem I have is the Dassey confession does not even remotely align with the evidence. Where is all the blood in Avery's bed, bedding and the walls and floors after he supposedly slit her throat while she was tied to that bed?. Where is the blood spatter consistent with a gunshot to the head? Not a single drop of DNA was found in that trailer. I think Avery's defense team should have brought Dassey's confession into the Avery trial.
+tarstarkusz Katz would have the judge throw it out. It was so infuriating.
Since you are able to make that comment based on a small & superficial ammount of information, let's hope you never end up on a Jury.
+Talentedtadpole an entire documentary is a small amount of information? I'm saying that after watching making a murderer the evidence I saw is enough to cause doubt, how is that jumping to conclusions?
Good grief that is hardly any information! Not saying what your opinion should be either way. As I said, hope you are never on a Jury.
For the rest of the country, before you get too down on us Wisconsin people over this, we threw Brad Shimel out of office over this and made him take Governor Walker's ass with him for refusing to pardon them.
Thank you for that!!
I just want to see Steven Avery out of jail before his parents are gone and to have some kind of a good life . I mean come on 28 years taking away from this man plus the situations and feelings he had to go through with both of his cases . This man has had a terrible life . I want to see better for him .
I’m surprised he hasn’t off’d himself...i think i might have....i know he has thought about it
His mom died 😩
His mom perished.
your whole justice system is scary, god knows how many innocent people have been banged up for years or life in your jails.
you should watch The Confession Tapes on Netflix
Darren Young yep, the US is kind of fucked up. Definitely a textbook police state. I am seriously considering leaving just for how messed up the criminal justice system is.
Yeah and think about the monsters that are set free, like O.J. 🤨
So scary!!!
Agreed the American justice system is fucked man if they want u gone ur done!
They have 36 million reasons to set him up. It’s obvious that the ex boyfriend had motive and opportunity. How about investigating him?? 💁🏾♂️
Great interview Justin. Your questions were concise, and you let Jerry give complete answers. Bravo!
Thanks, I really appreciate it.
They say it's all planted, that's all they got. They probably say he could have been cleaning up something else with bleach. Really? someone the regard as mentally challenged was allowed to handle bleach on his own without supervision? I seriously doubt his parents would let their son do anything with bleach without them present. This case is wasted of the states money but whatever. When is the new case going to start? At the end of the day he's still guilty, too much damning evidence.
What’s worse is the idea that the real killer is actually still out there. Whether they are part of the Manitowoc police department or not, it’s scary to think about.
I seriously doubt the police killed her but took the opportunity to go after Steven
@@garryfilaski3765 When $36 million dollars is involved, you best believe these pirates have no line they won't cross.
very well said.Cops that only value their own life dont care about justice ,and some of them are killers.I call them :Tubes of shit in uniform.A Movie line i picked up once.
That slimy prosecuting lawyer needs to be locked up
Deviant kratz
the part that got me thinking the most was when the cop reads out teresa number plate
I'm convinced they both are innocent. There are too many things that don't add up.
omg things don't add up in this murder case guys everyone's innocent
the official story is that they cut her up, slit her throat in the bedroom and then shot her in the garage. there was not one drop of blood anywhere though
devan pignanelli Exactly. Evidence tells a story no matter what case it is. The whole story didn't even come close to what the evidence was showing.
You have Avery's blood within the car yet...no finger prints!? How is this possible?
So if he was wearing gloves how did his blood drip out of the glove?? That doesn't make sense. How many days did it take for them to find the key to her car within his house? Suspicious!
***** "Steve, we couldn't find your fingerprints at the scene. We're gonna set ya free bud! You know, life can be a real hell of a sum'bitch sometimes, Steve! I can't tell you how many times the Autotrader girl I called over to my house using *67 ended up dead in my burn pit!! I have one of those damn retarded nephews too, makin' up bullshit horror-stories!! God damnit, life is tough for us good ol' American, Sunday-Night-Football watchin Big-Mac eatin men!!!! Welp, have a good one Ol' Stevey Boy!!! Better not have Brendan over for bonfires anymore... that kid is BAD NEWS STEVEY."
lol
Jerry and Dean are a awesome pair of not just lawyers but human beings, both of these men have completely shown me a side of lawyers I would have previously thought didn't exist, they did everything they could to help Avery stay out of prison for something he and his nephew clearly didn't do, it's a absolute shame that the justice system failed everyone involved including the family of the murder victim. #findtherealkillerfreeaveryandnephew
🤦
Excellent! ❤
Why did Brendan have Teresa’s vulva in a jar of alcohol. And both Dassey and Avery’s walls were plastered with thousands of eyes cut out from magazines?
May as well kill those types.
Should have looked into the Boyfriend and the Brother of the Halbach. Who had access to the spare key found in the home....It was obviously not the Master Key....
erasing emails, the search conducted by the brother and Boyfriend...the spare key...etc
could the key have been cut from the master key..if so could that be traced
Jason Thorburne Not sure....but this case has reasonable doubt...at every turn....if he did it..the way they said he did....where is all the blood? It should be splattered everywhere in that house and garage...there should be so much DNA evidence....but isn't...in addition....how about that pin hole in the old blood sample....just unreal...Or the cop reading the license plate over the phone as if he standing right in front of it...two days before they found the vechicle...this case stinks.
I agree, from the start I thought the brother and her ex Ryan acted very strange. When they were being interviewed they were stuttering all over themselves. They seemed very nervous to me, I think he set the lady up who found the Rav4 as well. He gave her the camera and told her where to start searching and she innocently took the bait. There is no way without either prior knowledge or guidance she would have so easily walked up on that car in that huge salvage yard. I personally do not trust any government agency, they are corrupt and if they want to get you they will.
That's exactly what i had thought! her ex just felt weird in to me for some reason, like how he took up the "lead"-role, i guess you could call it, in putting up missing papers and going in search for his ex girlfriend. he never seemed as if he were sad/devastated either! Though this/was the case here it goes without saying that jumping to conclusions regarding the level of visible shock and horror of those close to the victim, (like bf's, gf's, best-friends, parents, etc), that some how because they don't display the appropriate level of devastation and sadness all translates to that person being the killer! So yeah i don't wanna get carried away here on this, so just cuz the guy didn't seem very upset isn't shit on it's own, but like i said about the search party shit, i mean why the fuck would her brother or say - her parents be the person/people heading that up and so forth? And the fact that he was also her Ex-bf to boot. Then you got the deleted voicemail messages, which is something he prolly knew the code to get into her phone and do to try covering his tracks a bit. Like i said though - it's all speculation and a shit ton of surface level pop-psychological analysis so yeah - take it with a grain of salt!
When the brother admitted to correctly guessing TH's password on her phone, HUGE red flags went up for me.
One of the things I have never understood is if Steven did this why in the hell would he just park her car in his family's car salvage lot and put a few things around it to try hide it. He has access to a crusher...
I feel for his parents...they love their son and this has torn them down so much
I just finished this film last night, I can't see any way possible by what was presented they could have found him guilty. Kratzs and the officers involved were blatant liars, it was an obvious setup. Does anyone think Avery is going to kill this girl in his own home, burn the body in his back yard and leave the vehicle intact on his own property. This lady just happens to find a Rav 4 in a salvage yard with thousands of vehicle. From the Arial photo that place looked huge, no way in hell she wasn't told where to start looking. If God told her where to find it he should have told her, hey this girls going to be murdered on the Avery property on his date you should go stop it. This shows you, if any government agency wants to get you, they will, and they can get away with it.
you sure think about gay sex a lot
devan pignanelli once in a blue moon
40 acres of cars, and she found it in 20 minutes- behind a tarp, branches and the hood to another car was covering it..and Theresa's ex boyfriend just happened to give only her a digital camera on this search..The lady said'"God found it for me"
NO....!
Jeff Adkins the jury convicted because it was a tainted jury.....biased. One of the men sitting on the jury was the father of one of the sheriffs. How does that happen?
My mom and I are convinced it’s Steven’s relatives - i can’t remember their relation - who testified that they both went hunting separately and passed each other on the highway. They alibi each other and no one can confirm their whereabouts outside of each other.
yes this is also what i heard, a cousin, or Brenden's older brother, someone like that who also lived on the property, new evidence making this person a person of interest and some disturbing searches on the family computer at times when Brenden would've been at school.
It was Brendan's brother and step dad that you are referring to.
Bobby, Brendans brother and stepfather Scott
parts of her body were found in Averys firepit"
We have no proof of this. The officers who recovered the bones did not take any photographs of the bones while they were apparently in the burn bit. Further they found the bones in the burn barrel two days before the bones in the fire pit, and when asked for an explanation for why the officers did not immediately search the burn pit they said that a dog was guarding the burn pit...
The DNA was not a conclusive match. It was MtDNA which is better suited for excluding a victim than identifying one. The bones could only have said to have been a relative of Teresa's mother.
This might explain the missing teeth?
"bullet found in his garage linked by DNA to her,and tied to Averys gun."
The bullet was found 4 months after initial searches after they had coerced Brendan into saying she was shot in the head.
Lenk, an official who had been deposed in Avery's lawsuit, was not supposed to be there as it had already been reported no one from Manitowoc had taken place in any searches of the property, a clear lie.
The bullet had DNA on it. Not blood. No blood or latent blood. How does a through and through murder bullet end up bloodless but with nucleated cells on it?
Further the test where the lab tech found the dna on the bulletwas contaminated with the lab techs own dna.
It is protocol to retest the bullet in that case, which the tech did not do. That result was fabricated. It was not blood on the bullet. It was her DNA.
The gun was not Avery's. It was the property of the landlord... Who was not an Avery.
Further, there was no blood or latent blood on the gun.
Teresa's DNA was not on the gun. Avery's DNA was not even on the trigger.
"Avery was the last to see her alive, he called her from *67 three times before she came, he called Autotrader and speciifically asked for her (and gave false name), he originally said she never arrived"
There is plenty of evidence that Avery was not the last stop, for instance a call released on youtube wherein the detectives say they believe Avery was her second to last stop.
She had been to the property on Avery road many times before. She knew where she was going. The name he have was his sisters name as she was going to be selling the car.
He used *67 because he was an exoneree recieving lots of public attention. The idea that he used *67 to lure her is ridiculous... the adress was Avery RD.
By the way it is a flat out lie that Steven said she never arrived. That "fact" was only testified to by one officer, every other officer described him as honest, calm and forthright. Even Teresa's relative described Steven as honest and appearing genuinely concerned. Further the officer who testified saying this failed to mention he didnt write that report until just before trial. Because Kratz needed somethibg more incriminating.
'his cousin confessed her helped Avery"
His confession is him answering yes and no or elaborating on facts fed to him by police. He was alone without a parent. He repeatedly expressed his innocence and was told that saying he was innocent would not help him and if he wanted less than 20 years he needed to confess.
If you cannot see how Brendan was abused I feel sorry for your kids. Mental torture is real.
"DNA from his sweat was found on hood latch, Averys blood was found in 6 places in her vehicle..just a few facts of the case.'
DNA contains no sweat. Kratz had no way to know how that DNA got there but he had already spun his story telling everyone how sweaty Avery was.
Further the cops manipulated Brendan into saying Steven had disconnected the battery and then BAM his dna is found on the hood latch.
Have you seen the photos of Averys blood compared to Teresa's. The six stains of Avery's are all small and yet are bright red. Teresa's blood is in much larger amounts but it appears dried and brown as it should whem blood is exposed to oxygen.
Steven's tiny blood smears remained bright red because the blood was planted from a vial containing a preservative.
"Now, who do you say set him up and did all this? knew she was coming to see Avery that day, moved her car, planted blood, planted bones, planted DNA and framed him in such a perfect way?"
Yes everything was planted. Everything. The bones the key the blood the car the bullet and the story in Brendan's head.
"He was found guilty."
No one is denying he was convicted. We are arguing that conviction was knowingly and maliciously perpetrated by agents of the state to prevent his lawsuit from going through.
Thomas McIsaac
I love people being like "who would know she was going there that day!?!?"
uh, maybe her boyfriend who somehow had her planner that was in her car? ;o
The DNA on the bullet is highly questionable at the least. Considering the fact that the sample was contaminated. The whole state case and procedures to create the case was sloppy as hell. It's crazy how no physical evidence is able to collaborate with their theory, the Prosecution was basically allowed to contaminate the jury pool with press conference and his in trial antics. At the very start of the trial the man mislead the jury with that bogus story of SA asking Bobby and his friend if they wanted to help him hide the body. Just underhanded tactics all the way around.
They should reopen and give right of new trail to avery
I felt sick watching Dassey's confession. He defo believed if he told them what they wanted to here, he would be able to go home. Didn't have a clue what was happening.
How is that allowed to stand in court? If a lunatic voluntarily handed himself in and said I've done all these terrible things in this room but there was not one peice of DNA, he would get put in a mental asylum.
How then did he know all the details of the murder which had not been made public at the time? The guilt of what he and his uncle did was weighing heavy on him so he decided to confess. Kid even lost 40 plus pounds.
I believe they’re innocent. I have watched the documentary twice. AND, how are the same cop’s involved in this case, AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE FIRST CASE AGAINST HIM?! I really think Robby is guilty.
there was one guy who had knowledge of TH coming by, who had a 22. rifle, who was nearby with an extremely weak aliby, and who had motive..... Scott tadych!
Yep. Scott and Bobby. They covered for each other
What motive?? I missed that..Please!!
yeah he even tried to sell the gun afterwards
That beautiful young lady was a sacraficial lamb. Why couldn't they have been humble enough to fork over a respectable amount of money and let TH have her life. Steve Avery is innocent!!!!!!...... new trial God yes....Kathleen Zellner .....God's speed.
Patricia Murphy Amen
Kachinsky gives lawyers a bad name, should be disbarred
he says he has no intentions of watching MaM
mojorising0071950 he definitely should be disbarred! He is ashamed of being a lawyer on this case and that's why he acted poorly. Not to mention he was a public defender. Pro bono work is typically not desired and hard fought!
He had a very punchable face
You misspelled disemboweled pretty badly there.
I'm glad Brendan's sentence was overturned, and if they were so devious to entrap him, I firmly believe based on evidence and prior falsely accusing and imprisoning Steven Avery--you can't believe ANYTHING they claim to have on him as well! Too many claims not convincing enough.
The only person who was a suspect was Steven, the police did not questioned her family or friends. Who knows if he was really the last person to see her. Yes we didn't get the whole story but how the police went about it in both Steven's and his nephew's case was just wrong.
This was a great interview on behalf of both parties. I admire Jerry Buting. He's honest and doesn't work the sleeze angle.
When they started talking about the erased phone messages... didn't the ex boyfriend admit to knowing her password on the phone or I forget exactly what it was. He erased messages
Yes, he said he figured the password out
Yes!
the American legal system at its finest.
I love how Ken Kratz holds a press conference with an elaborate theory of what happened to TH without even investigating it so sad!
its the Law keepers(Police, Attorney & JUDGE) who made a mockery of the Law & Order. it was always clearly visible that what the state sheriff tried and yet they succeed with their motives. Inside I am so angry to these individuals, when I see we are promised to get justice by these same system but also the same system can ruin our lives because of these corrupt individuals.
I’m in my 30’s and honestly I hate that I live in an era where our society cannot trust in the justice system. It’s scary to think how many careles, egotistical, and just plan dirty people there are in our system.
jerry is a class act
If it is ever proven that he was framed no amount of money will fix it. What he does deserve is the balls of everyone involved resting on his mantle.
great interview, thank you for taking the time to make this
A lot of credit goes to Netflix for making the documentary. At some point it becomes the right thing to do, not just sensational entertainment. I have learned in the last year that living in Wisconsin is dangerous. Their law enforcement people lack critical thinking skills as well as moral accountability. I wish I could do something.
Me too
Absolutely. When I watched it I was not entertained. I was UPSET. I was enraged. I was in disbelief. I just wanted to DO something. But it was not entertainment to me.
Jerry Buting and Dean Strang did an amazing job. What people need to believe is that they opened a new unbreakable door to this case, even if they could not convince the so called The Jury which in the short future will make Steven Avery free. Steven Avery is Not Guilty.
They did not do their best because their "best" would should of gotten him free... Good try though, now KZ will bring a bulldozer ...
Now, how can you explain the bones and voicemails then?
Wouldn't be surprised if one or both were in on it!! Just my opinion.
theresa's brother is SHADY, it was definitely him or the ex boyfriend
I hated him the most
Totally agree I feel creeper out when I see him
Agree on that; that ex bf is creepy af
LOL
People like you are very dangerous. One manipulated video and this is what happens
free steven and his nephew
There was threats made against Avery's attorneys, IN COURT! Remember, "they do it at their own peril"? Then Kratz threatened the members of the jury when he told them that they had to be willing to say that their officers were, in essence, corrupt and culpable. Think about it; if you were on that jury and you knew how your local law enforcement had set up Steve Avery the first time and how they came after him the second time, would you want to put yourself and your family in jeopardy, knowing what your local authorities were capable of?
Great interview. Thank you.
wonderful interview, despite the tragic outcome.
Steven Avery & Brandon are not guilty.
A total disgrace for everyone working in law enforcement in that county. imagine working with these people. what a shame?!!
Buting and Strang are examples of good defense attorneys who care about their jobs and the priority is protecting their clients rights to their best abilities
1. Since Avery was about to get a huge sum of money, what's his motive to such a crime? 2. If he was smart enough to clean up his bedroom and garage, why did he leave his blood as evidence in Rav4 and why did he leave bones in burning pit? All these don't make any sense.
Thissssssssss 👏👏👏👏👏👏 it doesn’t make sense !!! The police framed him
This has been such a crime against humanity and made Wisconsins justice system questionable to the point of needing serious investigation. A DA that sexually harrassed a domestic violence victim and others who came forward with similar complaints, which were hushed up while he helped frame two innocent people.
A woman viciously assaulted by a perpetrator who was completely ignored in favor of framing Steven Avery, despite knowing that he was the likely suspect, because some lawmen did not like the "gene pool"?
An intellectually handicapped boy's life destroyed so that he could be used to frame his uncle. His exoneration after 18 years showed those lawmen to be as crooked and corrupt as they are.
There was absolutely no motive at all, very obviously planted evidence, and all because they had lost face after he has served 18 years while innocent.
This is the greatest shame on Americas justice system.
Love those defense attorneys. I understand why they are so frustrated. I am 100% sure that Brendan did not commit the crime. There is enough evidence for reasonable doubt for Steven as well. I don't understand how they were convicted.
I never got why proving the "why" was difficult for the defense.. I can think of 36 million whys which wasn't covered by insurrance.
Great interview. Calm, composed, eloquent and well-thought-out... unlike so many other videos on this topic.
Great interview!
Wow, the question the interviewer asked just after 17:00 about how defence attorneys are usually portrayed...I said to my dad earlier today how I was pleasantly surprised that the defence attorneys in this case were the morally and ethically sound ones, and the prosecution were the slime balls.
And also what Jerry Buting says about when people are summoned for jury duty and usually complain, I look forward to the day when I can participate on a jury and contribute to the justice system!
I absolutely adore this women! She is the definition of a super hero! I pray for justice for Theresa Halbach, Steven Avery and Brendan, I cannot wait for that day when they are all free! It's very sickening to see such a corrupt system from a cop all the way up to Supreme judges, shame on all who denied their rights. The truth always comes out, and that will be a scary day for those who were against. Such a tragic story but I have faith Kathleen and her amazing team will bring justice! I also pray for Stevens parents the broken hearts they carry is so unbearable, you can see the pain and hurt in their eyes as they grow older. I pray for Barb because the truth may actually be worst than she could ever imagine.
Jerry and Dean are great guys! All their hard work will be paid off once Zellner exposes all those assholes.
Best interview on this case I have seen yet.
Love this interview! thank u.. and Go Jerry..you guys are awesome!
A federal judge gave the opinion that"[T]he testing process for EDTA took more than one year because of the lack of any standardized protocols for testing."
Again relying on Cooper a. Brown, the Court concluded that. "There are no standardized protocols for testing the concentration levels of EDTA present in a particular sample. More significantly, there are no established scientific standards for interpreting the significance of levels of EDTA found in any particular sample." Decision and orde r at 6.
EDTA is so ubiquitously present in the environment, including in common products used to clean and preserve automobiles.... ahem cough cough... wouldn't it be great if Kathleen could show her RAV 4 dashboard was treated with a solution containing trace amounts of EDTA lmao... the defense expected, if the test was valid, that there will maybe even molecular amounts of EDTA in the blood due to the chemical becoming increasingly more commonplace.
The only potentially useful EDTA test that the FBI might do, then, is quantitative. They might seek to determine the relative quantities of EDTA present in identical volumes of blood in the vial, and blood in the Toyota. If there were a stark difference in relative concentration of EDTA in the two blood samples, adjusted for volume' then the state might have an argument that it could prove the blood not planted. That is, the state could have contended that the blood in the Toyota could not have come from the vial. There was no publicly available protocol for conducting such tests. Neither is it clear that anyone - the FBI included - ever successfully has done a reliable quantitative analysis of EDTA in blood left at a crime scene. one problem
There appears to be no data establishing the rate of degradation of EDTA in different environments, or indeed, in any environment in which EDTA is exposed, in minute amounts, to air, heat, cold, precipitatiory background pH levels, electrical conductivity, oxidation, bacteria or other environmental organisms.
There appears no reported case anywhere in the country, not even this case, in which QUANTITATIVE testing of EDTA, or testimony about such testing, ever has ever been completed or admitted as evidence.
Suddenly the state and the FBI Laboratory issued a protocol for the EDTA testing. So it appears that the FBI now has a fresh protocol, perhaps created over night, for EDTA tests that the state wishes done. But, at the time it was admitted as evidence, the protocol never had been validated by the FBI, let alone by independent peer review.
It is hard to imagine how validation could have occurred, when the first draft of the protocol is hardly two weeks old and said draft initially estimated a five to seven month validation period.
the blood obvioushas edta in it. It appears bright red days later compared to Teresa's blood in the back of the car which has started to brown.
DIRTY COPS!!! DIRTY COPS!!! SOMEONE NEEDS TO INVESTIGATE TERESA's BROTHER... He was obsessed with her!
leelee yo yeah that's right her brother killed her despite being miles away at the time with no evidence pointing at him but Steven Avery who led multiple times about his activities that day, who had a deep cut on his finger and whose EDTA free blood was found in her car is innocent lol you people are sick
Joe Kerr You people are dumb.
Not only that, but he killed her on the very day, she went to Steven Avery's house, then the police burnt her and took some bones to Steven Avery's house and just by sheer luck, he had been using his burn pit at that time! They then found her car, put it on the property and placed his finger print under the hood. A lot of luck for the police that day. NOT
it was her ex boyfriend..He had motive(She was living with another man) he didn't have an alibi,he was the lead in the search team that found the Rav 4..and he admitted to hacking into her phone...for what reason was he in her phone?Obviously to delete any calls or messages that he had left..
I got weird vibes from her brother. I am glad I am not the only one.
great interview! well done.
Really great interview
That judge, Patrick Willis, does not seem honorable.
Most definitely dishonorable judge
The same weasel who claimed a coroner’s professional opinion has “no bearing” on the case
11:40 this is what a liar looks like when caught in a lie🤥🤔
I think all know by now she was killed by her ex boyfriend.
Great interview and sound advice at the end.
Edit: Spoiler Alert
Anyone here after watching season 2? The way Kathleen figured out the true murderer's and how they pulled it off was unbelievable!!
This court purposefully prevented Stevens defense from providing a defense!!!!
How can Teresa's poor soul rest. Knowing that two innocent men are in prison for murder, and knowing that the real person that took her life is still walking the Earth free absolutely horrible
Great discussion!
I've subscribed. .
Brilliant
documentary,absolutely loved it.Made me cry,kept me hooked
Great work from the defence lawyers.Fell in love with Jerry Buting
Jerry and Dean tried so hard for Steven and they keep supporting him this is something to look at. They really believe in steven & Brendan bless you men you gave your all. Jerry you proved that key was planted. You did that.
The Ex boyfriend and his friends did it!!
yeah the ex boyfriend looked suspicious and he had her voicemail password, it was probably him who deleted a meesage from there
Kim Morris Nah, thank God I'm not American. But chill the fuck out, Kim hahaha I'm sure your ex-boyfriends don't give a fuck about you either so don't worry.
Kim Morris uuuuhhhh, fuck you?
no scott tadych and bobby dassey.
What about Steven's brother-in-law? Wasn't there interest in him in the 2nd movie?
Brendan said no 75 times before he said yes!? His lawyers should have brought this up in federal court.
Really good interview.
Someone deleted voice mail that would prove she was still alive.
here me out though, these two ppl ken called to the stand were only able to alibi themselves and yet still see steve avery and brendan at the fire.. Bobby didnt even know what time it was when he apparently went to go 'hunting' but said during the trial that 'oh scott can verify the times' like... whaaaaaat
Mad. So you're telling me Steven, who works in a junk yard' DIDNT scrap the car after he killed her? And just decided to leave his DNA, her blood, his blood, bullets (apparently after he magically managed to clear up all of her blood in the garage) and fucking bury her a few feet away from his house.
Evidence proved her body was moved to different locations, that Scott guy was in on it too, the fucker.
WHY would anyone literally plant the evidence within their own home grounds. This is disgusting at how these cops played on the public, knowing if they could make him look guilty, he will be guilty.
It's been more than 10 years since this happened, and everyone is seeing he's innocent. I hope he gets out. My heart breaks for him, this mans life has been ruined mercilessly
regarding the last 2 minutes of this video, I was reading Arnold Schwarzenegger's autobiography recently. When he was Governor, he was trying to balance the budget of California and realized too much money was being spent/wasted on prisons. He made moves for the state to spend less by prevention of crime instead of more money for prisons. it's not what the legislators wanted.
Dassey was taken advantage of by those interrogating him and that down right pisses me off more than anything. The whole investigation/trial was shady AF, especially Dassey's first lawyer (god I hate that man! You can see it in his eyes he is a sinister man).
Dean and Jerry are great guys. You can tell they give a shit.
Averys reaction made me cry he dont deserve this 😢😢😢
each fucking time .... even thinking about it makes me cry.
no. especially thinking about it makes me cry! ........this is all so heartbreaking
i keep sending love to Steven Avery & Brendan Dassey and their whole family ♥ they need it
Is no one bothered by the fact that the judge seemed to have it out for Avery from the start?? His verdict at the end says it all (I'm paraphrasing here) "Avery is the most dangerous man to ever enter this courtroom", "your crimes are getting more and more violent", "you have proven that you are a danger to society"; based on what?! The rape he was ACQUITTED for? The minor misdemeanors which he immediately confessed and never denied doing (and paid the price for)? The judge is as dirty as Kratz and Colborn (and of course the other law enforcement personell etc. involved in this shit)
This man is so well spoken and is probably the best lawyer you could ever have, as someone accused of a crime
I would hire Jerry Buting in a second if I was ever charged with murder.
Hope this is not out of line but I'm going to say it anyway . Jerry I love you for what you are doing after the Avery case and the hard work you put in working for Mr. Avery during the trial.
excellent interview, to the point, great
The fact that anyone can not at least see that the police force is corrupt is insane.
Never concluded it as her bones
WHen i was on a jury there were 3 elements that had to be met for us to make a guilty verdict. I would like to know what the elements were....
can you elaborate more please? what you are talking about /meaning? :x
i am from europe so i dont know how this system works :D
Great interviewer! The best questions
When you carefully sift through the evidence presented both in the series, and the stuff that surfaced afterward by those decrying the series lack of balance, no one single factor jumps out at you for being especially damning against Avery. All of the charges fold. Fascinating.
Erm the fact that the vial was meant to have a hole in it, that the box had been opened by Avery's false conviction lawyers and that they knew this whilst filming MAM jumps out very much.
Did they know while filming?
The box wasn't opened by them. The seal was broken on it when they got it and why the hell would there be a hole in the top?
I think that the jury was scared to find them not guilty!
Well on the first vote it was 7 not guilty, 2 guilty, 3 not sure.
That became unanimous 12 guilty.
All it takes is ONE who says we are not leaving this room until we have guilty. Peoole want to get back to their lives and in the end they give in.
Thats what happened.
They were easy going and there was one who was a fascist who was maniacally convinced of his guilt. Wonder if this person was related to law enforcement or the victim? Seems everyone in manitowoc is related to someone in this case.
So sad how often the state throws out all shreds of ethical behavior, to make a case on an innocent defendant
That someone who watched the show, including the Thalbach family, can not doubt about Averys und Dessys guilt, is beyond me
These people who set this man up ...is going to hell !!! They sold their souls to the devil ! They are all going to face a honest Judge someday!!!!