Yep. Narrative dissonance. The whole plot of this game is driven by Joel killing that one doctor in the first game. Something none of us gave any thought to when we first played it back then. But this game sees Ellie slaughter hundreds of people. In theory, there are thousands of people out there who want to go after her. If you use the logic that Druckmann did when crafting the narrative of this game, then the cycle of revenge is far from over.
Eh, it's kind of a setup for her story ark, which is one of the story elements I found work well. Her being petty and unforgiving is what led to her major regret: not reconciling with Joel while he was still alive. So she ultimately decides to change that part of herself and in order to do so she forgives the single person that is beyond forgiving. She decides that going through with that change will honor Joel more than revenge would. And I think that story ark is incredibly muddled by insulting attempts of developers to redeem Abby in players' eyes. She should've been an off-screen goon the entire game, really.
@@BackFromSpace Meh, I don't know. That's a bit hard to swallow. I think you put more thought into the SL than the developers did tbh. But hey, if that's what you got out of it then good on you. I personally think it's a total cop-out, especially after Ellie got her fingers bitten off, which literally severed her last connection to Joel. Bitch would have gotten two in the chest and two in the dome just to be sure.
This is so disingenuous. Nowhere in the game is it said that Ellie can literally never forgive Seth. Also, she doesn't try to kill Seth??? Terrible comparison. Typical of Gamers.
@@CIintB3ASTW0oD Yeah, I agree about the details that are clowny, like the fingers, the way Joel died, the fact that Ellie leaves the guitar instead of re-learning to play left-handed, etc, etc. I think the outline of the story is pretty neat, but the execution is by and large botched.
I could understand Ellie realising at the last moment that revenge isn't what she really wanted and choosing to let Abby go... if she hadn't just tracked Abby across multiple states and killed over 300 people to get to her
We, the players, don't get to see that flashback about Joel and Ellie's last talk until the end. But Ellie knew. That was in Ellie's head all this time. And what about Abby killing Jesse, and mutilating Tommy, and almost slicing Dina's throat AFTER getting her deranged revenge? The story is garbage. So broken in so many ways.
Hate that trope. You already killed people that were probably more innocent than the person you want revenge on. Why in Kill Bill Vol 1. I like where The Bride spared that one teenager and told him to go back to his mother.
ohhh,... because she don't want to kill her.... she want to kill all her friends an allies..... so "gigantor" feels what she feels when male patriarch died... is a woman type of revenge .. see..??
“I could understand Ellie realizing at the last moment that revenge isn’t what she really wanted and choosing to let Abby go… if she didn’t realize at the last moment that revenge isn’t what she really wanted and choosing to let Abby go” Idk how the length of time changes the meaning of what happens imo
The Last of Us 3: Ellie gets eaten by a bear and you watch her corpse decompose for 10 hours. Meanwhile, Gigantor finally becomes a real woman, only to realize she's Ellie's mother from another timeline. Also, dancing deer.
The Joel in the first game legit ran over a guy on the street that was pretending to be injured because he assumed he was faking it and was familiar with these kind of tricks because of his past. He didn't even hesitate when he did it.
@Artuurs Z. No he didn't. He stops the car because he's startled and puts on his seatbelt, then seconds later he's already telling Ellie to put on her seatbelt as he gets in position to run over the guy. idiot
What pisses me off is all the people basically act like it's guaranteed that they'd find a cure. All the fireflys are like "she would want this", why not fucking ask her to be sure?
They killed many people before Ellie while doing the operation and failing it every time regardless, and on top of that they try to do the operation without telling Ellie it could kill her and getting permission from her to do it. THAT is why this "debate" naughty dog thinks is there doesn't exist. Joel made the right choice. Fuck Gigantor. Fuck her Dad. Fuck the fireflies.
I know right. I get that her dad was supposed to be a doctor and help people, but operating on people without their approval isn’t exactly an ethical standard.
@@jackw9385 Even if they did get the cure, how would thye distribute it, and the power imbalance would be crazy as they would be the only group with the cure meaning they could just become a dictatorship. Watch A Closer Look's video on this, cause he rewrites the story to be way better!
@@somethingawesome1462 Even if "operating on people without their approval" is their only chance at saving humanity from extinction? Are you even aware of what real people have done in the past (and present) for much lesser reasons?
@Artisan Well, it's through that leftist agenda that they think they are right, but it's such a hopeless and dismal "right" that it drives away most 'you-do-you', non-political, laid-back folk. Maybe "right" to them is to indulge in your anger, arouse your sexual fantasies, and degrade all men as nihilistic figures who will not redeem society at all. If being "right" is accepting those things, accepting that life is nothing, then I don't want to be right.
Now, please tell me if you remember this. Do you remember in the first one, how Joel kills Abby’s dad, the rest of the people in the hospital, and took Ellie away, and killed the leader of the fireflies to which Abby belonged too, effectively ending any chance the world had of developing a vaccine. Now, just because he helped out a stranger who was in trouble, does not absolve the sin of all of the rest of what he’s done to her. If YOU had half a brain cell, you’d be asking yourself how come you’re not thoughtful enough to even understand?
THIS. The game tries so hard to get you to sympathize with Abby, but my God does it do a horrible job. Not once in the game does Abby show any signs of regret for the things she’s done. This game could have been so much more.
@@lesb1anlov3r36 Imagine playing the first one for 6 hours as David, and having to sympathize with him. In fact, Troy is on video saying that Joel and David are basically on equal ground and David did "nothing wrong." What. The. Hell.
@Radisa Gunawardane Because she was a deranged psychopath. No other former Firefly gave a F about finding and killing Joel. Everyone had lost family, everyone had killed people in that world. There was absolutely nothing special about Abby losing her father. Even Owen constantly pushes back on her obsessive quest for revenge. And btw, Joel saved Abby's life. Doesn't make any difference to her. Lev saves Abby because Yara insists on it, and they bond for life. Complete BS.
Joel's biggest downfall? Trusting a woman who looks like She-Hulk...... We waited 7 years for that. The whole story behind a fucking sequel should not in any way be over A RANDOM CHARACTER, murdering THE BELOVED PROTAGONIST...
@@LTJfan If they wanted to do a redemption arc like this, they should’ve saved it for the TV show, not a video game. This is because you can skip the episodes, also give more depth to the backstory, and show the emotions more naturally. Instead with a game we’re forced to play as this asshole and feel sympathy for her… Imagine if The Walking Dead was a game, and in all the episodes showing The Governor’s “redemption” we were forced to play as him. Imagine playing as fucking Negan when we were shown The Sanctuary. Wouldn’t go over to well would it. Hopefully TLOU Show will redeem this bullshit arc and make it actually feel natural.
@@kamakazeyt I think this game is just really a 50/50. Joel dying was justified, maybe could have been done better towards the end of the game to show her story of revenge was for nothing. Not knowing why abby killed Joel then finding out it was because of the end of the first game makes sense, as Joel - like everyone else is a pretty terrible person. I can agree that the first game is better, but I don't really understand why people absolutely hate this game. Abby is actually a likeable character, and Ellie's revenge is in actuality just a product of the in-game universe. Also Abby isn't a random character as it was explained in the game and that explanation made total sense! Joel didn't care about who he killed and how it would affect others, he just wanted to save ellie which bit him in the arse.
@@patricktracey6014 The concept of Joel dying in the sequel? Completely justified. How it was executed in THIS game specifically (given all we know about Joel and his very untrusting nature of people he barely knows)? Definitely not. Neil bent and twisted himself into a pretzel of coincidence and convenience to get that contrived scenario of Joel in a room, surrounded by people he doesn't know, and his brother Tommy (equally as if not MORE distrusting) blurting his name out for all to hear.... In no way, shape, or form was that justified to have ever happened if written by some one who actually cared about writing a death for a beloved character, that both knew the character and their traits inside and out and respected their agency in the scenario they were trying to craft. Neil just wants to be done with it and he wants Joel where he wants him to be for it to happen. Like Drinker said, its contrived as hell for the sake of emotional manipulation and it sucks so much that it had to be in a sequel to one of the best games of the PS3 generation.
@@yumyumeatemup I agree, maybe they could have added an hour or two at the start with abby, Joel and tommy to make them more comfortable with eachother and trust slighty. However, I dont think this warrants such a terrible back lash that it got, with Moist Critical giving it 55% and the overall negative feedback it got from the community.
Yet here you are talking about it, along with all the so called hurt and triggered people making video and crying because it won game of the year, the joystick awards and literally the most awards from Playstation users. The game is currently the most popular exclusive game on Playstation 4 right now, it is the most streamed and watch exclusive PS4 game and sitting at number 4 on Amazon for best selling Playstation 4 games, 6 months after release
@@e.m.francis6946 it’s not even just thinking of them as enemies. You wouldn’t let your guard down so easily no matter how civilized you are. He was standing in the middle of the room.
@@Small_child_punter If I had just rushed through a zombie horde with someone, while we protected each other through it, I wouldn't think that giving them my name would be a problem, unless I had been living in comfort for several years and I didn't take seriously the repercussions of the decision to kill dozens of people years before.
@IronThreads good writers wouldn’t go against a character that everyone loved and was universally well received. Joel wouldn’t do this but my guess is to make Ellie be more in charge they made him a weak fumbling old man. The pain and troubles that hardened Joel into a tough and dangerous man didn’t suddenly go away because he saved a little girl he grew to like. He’d still be just as stand off-ish.
@@e.m.francis6946 Joel was smiling while he stood in the center of the room and gave out his name. He wouldn’t do that. He didn’t press for information about this group. Joel isn’t stupid. It’s a mistake we would make but not him. He has been doing this shit for decades.
This is a stolen comment but I wanna leave it here for all to ponder: “It’s strange times we live in when a God of War sequel is making a better story about the bond between a father and their child and the values of strength, survival, determination, love, wisdom and forgiveness than a sequel to The Last of Us.” Let that sink in.
Ok but there’s a bigger plot hole that you missed. Where does Abby get her steroids from in a post apocalyptic world. Surely the devs didn’t think that we would believe a woman can look like that naturally? Wait…
Easy solution: Who says this game takes place in the post apocalypse? Everyone has infinite resources, people are having big dances in barns, people have gyms. What separates this game from Far Cry 5?
Because Neil clearly has no clue of the amount of muscle that the human female body can naturally achieve. He probably thinks as long as you lift a few weights then you'll look just like her. The irony is the model they used for Abby's body (Colleen Fostch) is juiced out the ass.
usually I would agree with this type of comment since most women are certainly not like abby and in the game they aren't either but in real life there are some genetic outliers I know this because my sister of 16 years is built like a tank and exactly like abby (tho she looks and acts more like louisa from encanto because she's a sweet huge tank) most ppl think she's a man when they only see her from behind and when she turns around there she is with her feminine beautiful face, my family thinks it's got huge parts to do with the fact that she went swimming from the ages of like 7 to about 13 but I think it's just a genetic thing some ppl are just genetic outliers it just makes me sad that women that do look like that usually end up getting super insecure about their physique because of being called a man despite not being able to actually change anything abt their physical appearance apart from literally maybe letting go of working out or doing sports entirely she at the time is cutting for example to lose some fat but she's still gaining muscle rapidly it's insane (no she isn't using roids cause my dad would take her down a peg if she did and well she herself isn't a fan of all that stuff which is good)
My biggest problem with this game is not necessarily that Joel was killed off (although I still don't like it), it is that the game forces you to play half of it as his killer.
Mine too. Once I got to that part of the game I shut it off and almost didn't play it again. I reluctantly picked it up again a few days later because I couldn't NOT finish it.
I feel like you’re missing the point. It’s about understanding a character despite their actions, and possibly the reasons behind it. The first game did the same thing with Joel. He wasn’t a good person, and what he did at the end was clearly wrong; but the point is that you understand why.
@@theworld6710 Oh I understand quite well, thank you. But an unlikable character does not become more so even if you know their motives. No, Joel was never a good person, but he was what we invested our time in and with when The Last of Us was new. It was through him we learned to enjoy the setting and the story. To kill him off and force players to play as his murderer is arguably a bad design choice, and it is arrogant to believe that people, in general, would see it as a favourable move, which is why the fanbase is so split when it comes to the sequel.
@@ShadowKayvaan You claim to understand, and yet continue as though you don’t. As you admit, Joel wasn’t a good person. It was merely familiarity and investment that connected people with him. It’s the same with Abby. Their stories are parallels. Abby is a bad person, we can see that with what she does to Joel. But she improves herself by learning to care for other people? Sound familiar. It isn’t arrogant. It’s expecting your audience to be able to think and consider your themes. Apparently, they expected too much out of many people.
Not only is he tortured to death, but the entire revenge plot goes nowhere as Ellie allows the main villain to just leave at the end instead of finishing off Abby. Which means Joel’s brutal death meant absolutely nothing.
If you’re trying to tell a story about how revenge and murder are dehumanizing, maybe don’t force the player to wade through an ocean of bodies and blood only to suddenly forgive the final boss
Can you believe that Ellie fell in love with a girl that happened to be bisexual and at the same time pregnant with her ex boyfriend's baby that would die later so Ellie and Dîna can have a baby of their own, a happy lesbian couple living in a farm in a post apocalyptic world... This has got to be some next level fan fiction writing
And at the end Ellie is alone because fck Ellie, how dare she tried to avenge her father figure? Revenge bad! The only person that gets away with revenge is Abby!
Imagine sitting there for hours, exploring, leveling/boosting up, and acquiring resources for the main protagonist of the game while hunting down the antagonist and killing her cronies... Now, imagine halfway through, the game forces you to play, explore, level/boost up, and acquire weapons and resources for that same antagonist you've just spent hours prepping to kill... How dumb. Now, imagine spending hours upon hours finally getting to the final fight of the game, just to not finish what you started. The Last Waste of Time: Part II.
@@Star-wb2ov Actually I’m considering the remake coming out which is literally called part I the actual game part II was a sequel to, cuz we know they’re going to change shit to match this game. I consider the original it’s own pure timeline where Ellie obviously knew Joel was lying at the end, and the others in an alternate depressing stupid timeline.
@@darthdragonborn1552 I don't think they'll change the story in the remake cause people hated TLOU2, and only critics liked it. If they changed the loved original, the backlash would be probably one of the biggest controversies in gaming history, maybe behind the invention of DLC's and lootboxes.
The funniest thing about this game is how quickly it was sent to the clearance sale bargain bin. Within a month, game resale stores were inundated with TLOU2 copies that they had to put the kibosh on accepting them.
its obvious that although it sold millions, it still didnt reach sonys expectations as we havnt heard of any other sales announcements since the launch.
I think this is another case against "pre-ordering". If game or movie that have large "first day" sales, that will cover future sales and make it successful. Last of us part 2 and Last Jedi had this case: they had a lot of build-up from well beloved IP so pre-orders are going to be sky-high, plus their publishers did really good cover-ups for the leaks so those who paid in advance didnt question their purchase thinking that are getting what they want and at the end we get product that had 50% sales drop in after launch and public that will have even less trust in your future projects. So pls people do it as Yathzee (Zero punctuation) says: "Can you pls, stop pre-ordering!?".
@@Blizzhoof Nah. They just made a roided up woman, without knowing how anatomy works apparently. If Abby HAD been Trans, ND would have made it a point for you to know.
Looks to me like the game also suffers from a classic modern trope. 'Selective Empathy'. You're supposed to care about Abbey, her life, her revenge and its consequences to the point where you understand why Elly doesn't kill her. But what about all the others she kills? The game seems to ignore that story-wise, those are all people too. With hopes, dreams, fears and souls. Snuffed out like they didn't even exist. What the developer forgot is that you can't have it both ways. You can't have a violent, murderous setting where people are offed left right and centre to then U-turn and have an emotional story about forgiveness, revenge bad and letting go. That's why the first game works, it knows this and doesn't spin you a tale about morality because both characters aren't afforded the luxury of morals most of the time. Kill or be killed, that was the rule. This trope returns in many games and movies these days and it's annoying because you have to turn your brain off and not think about the many murders committed and find compassion in your heart for the one character you *do* have a reason to loathe.
If you didn't feel bad about killing people as Abby then that's on you. Selective Empathy is a responsibility of the viewer in the case of a video game. The cutscenes and story went a ways to demonstrate why these people feel bad about what they're doing. Did you skip everything?
Or selective empathy how I'm supposed to feel for Abby, but not Joel? I played as Joel. I get Joel. The Fireflies are doing it for the best of intentions, but they're about to murder my adopted lesbian daughter and I'm not about to let them do that.
Ironic that you cant see the elective empathy you have for Joel. What about all the people he murders in cold blood at the end of the first game? Were those not people with hopes and dreams and fears and souls as well?
@@Say_No_To_e-Girls Both Joel and Abby are seemingly written as morally ambiguous characters but its a lot harder to "feel" for Abby than it is for Joel. Joel at least seems to do bad things for the sake of a greater good. And even when it isn't for morally right reasons like survival, I can still understand his actions and reactions based on the kind of world they're living in. Abby on the other hand has committed straight up unnecessary murder. And even though the story tries to show Abby as growing as a person, I still feel Joel's actions were always more justifiable than Abby's. And I don't think its selective empathy to see one person having a better justifications than the other given their circumstances, even if they both did something considered "wrong".
@@Say_No_To_e-Girls In cold blood? They were all armed and were probably going to kill him anyway. And about Jerry... it was rather stupid to threaten a guy carrying an arsenal with a tiny scalpel.
Myself from some years ago would agree with you that "taking risks" needs to be praised, but now my very cynical myself can't stop thinking that that concept is used often to justify lazy writing. Still great analysis Drinker
also for video game this type of story telling is just insulting, this cheap story for sure as movie or tv show, but for video game it just slap to the face
I will never preorder a game again after this. It’s two years and I still cannot forgive those fuckers for killing Joel. And really, killing him just to advance “the message” The most beautiful two characters together in any game where Joel and Elli Together and they completely destroyed it
If they just killed him in a much better way like a few of the ways in this fair review/critic or a 1000 other ways, MAN, it may have been amazing but the way it was done ... sigh
They were animals, so I slaughtered them like animals. Not only the men, but also the women who had done nothing against me, and also their pets; but I saved Gigantor who savagely killed my parent figure in front of me.
That, to me, is the stage at which you can truly say the haters have a genuine point about Druckmann trying to push an agenda with this plot. Druckmann obviously wanted to have a transgender character in the story but the role of protagonist was already taken by Ellie, so he was forced to put Abby in the role of 'villain'. BUT, he still wanted her to be relatable for the sake of 'muh progressivism', so he has Abby spare Ellie after killing Joel - even though it's a decision which makes no sense logically and which also seems out of character for Abby anyway.
@@buttermilk5364 I think Druckmann wanted Abby to be transgender all along but walked it back at the last second by including some childhood scenes with Abby as a girl so he could have deniability in case there was backlash over the decision (and there was). It was a smart move on his part... But not as smart as writing a story that people actually wanted to see.
Last of Us 2 should have been a completely new story following New characters. They could've dipped into the early struggles of the outbreak and the creation of safe zones, or the fireflies. Maybe even do a story about ppl on their own journey that either come across happenings from the first game like environmental changes or witnessing events from a distance and choosing not to get involved. If done right u could string it out to allude to a possible meet up in future games. Could have your actions drag Joel & Ellie into getting involved.
That WOULD have been better. At least Ellie would still be that great, foul-mouthed, energetic character she was... instead of devolving into a sad, angry killing machine.
To me the story was fine. I don’t give a damn how much of a bond Joel and Ellie had, Joel knew he probably wasn’t gonna die a peaceful death with the amount of ppl he killed. It’s funny how people forget every action has a consequence, Joel would’ve got his comeuppance whether then or 5 years from when he died. Ppl don’t forgive and forget, just like the ppl that sought revenge for Joel’s death Abby had the same motivation
@@msinna6433 true but it is about the delivery of the story, this was probably the lamest story ever, abby (or at least by playable persons) just being a she-hulk while Ellie kills half an army by herself. This was just so bad finishing the game just didn't feel rewarding as there were so many potholes and dumb story progressions. What's even worse is that probably the best character combo's (dinna & Ellie, Tommy & Ellie and Joel & Ellie) for the next game is already dead only because of how the game ended. Going to wait on the users reviews for the next instalment, game sites often only review the first 2 hours because of deadlines.
Amy Hennig was forced out of Naughty Dog for not being feminist enough. Thanks Neil Druckman. Let's reiterate that. A woman who earned everything she had was bullied by a privileged, nepotistic white man into leaving her dream job. A woman who proved herself with her own talents had a horrible career setback by a man who thought too highly of himself. Amy Hennig greatly contributed to The Legacy of Kain, Jak & Daxter, and The Last of Us. Video game stories that are subversive and informative. Neil Druckman is responsible for TLoU Part II. A game that is more divisive than a calculator. I can only assume that Neil got Amy ousted because she isn't particularly good looking.
With Nolan North, the voice of Nathan Drake, himself admitting this, it becomes a bigger problem than usual. Good thing Sony's got plenty of people desperate to keep good ties with them, or this could have blown up badly for them.
Thought provoking narratives: Offer up a moral conundrum, and have a character choose one of these 2 evils, with the immediate and far reaching consequences being left up to the player to ponder upon whether the decision made was the right one. Uninspired and boring narratives: Revenge bad. Why revenge bad? Gigantor get revenge, then revenge good. But other girl get revenge? No good. Revenge mean lose fingers, no play guitar and wife take baby. Revenge. Bad.
@@introvert6705 what is the last thing abbey and ellie attempted on-screen ? -at least abbie get to leave with that kid, and rowed on the boat she intended on - ellie ? We see how gnarly her hands look with couple fingers missing, cant even play the guitar. And walking into the wilderness is not what ellie wanted / claimed to want. --- see ? Then the original comment was trying to be funny, not to take it as a hard core review or something. Thats it for today, Go away now.
The difference however, is that TLOU2 builds to that conclusion. In John Wick, Wick doesn't show any signs of remorse or guit for what he's doing. He's going to get revenge and that's that and we the audience are supposed to root for that. Wheras TLOU2 shows us Ellie is in the wrong and is forcing herself through it in a misguided way to solve her PTSD and the audience is supposed to recognize that.
It's weird that none of the google results say anything positive about Joel's decision, google results also claim that last of us 2 is great game yet I find comment sections full of people defending Joel's decision and whenever I look for similar games to play, part 2 is never there. Honestly, after seeing countless woke movies where even negative reviews are censored (looking at you rings of powers), I start to think that results in google are not fully natural
You'll be amazed by the amount of people that are defending this game still to this day and claiming it's one of the greatest games ever made. I fuckin despise the human race sometimes. It's not even a game it's literally just a wank fest for wokery, propaganda, transgender and gay representation and just SJW snowflake bullshittery in general. Joel was right to massacre a bunch of people that wanted to operate on and kill a 14 year old without getting any permission and not only that but do it after failing the operation countless times before and as a result killing people for absolutely no reason. That's why this big conflict Cuckmann thought he had created for the player to feel does not exist. This game was just an excuse to force people to watch a white male protagonist get beaten to death by a transgender woke bodybuilder and to later on in the game watch that same transgender bodybuilder get pegged by some weird dude in the most disgusting, depraved, uncomfortable and unnecessary sex scene I've ever seen in my life.
Another thing that ruins the game is what seems to be Neil’s personal views shoved into the game. I remember when the leak happened, the enemies were going to be “homophobic christians”, something that seems to have been changed or altered, albeit not too much. And there were rumors that in the TV show, all the bad guys were going to be exclusively men. Don’t know if that’s going to be changed. And Neil’s self-insert……….how can a game dev make an insert of himself AND have it disrespect a main Character’s death so much?
@@xitaris5981 but it did lol. the reason Lev and Yara were being hunted was because they didn't abide by the cult's values. thats a direct influence on the story
I loved Joel but Ellie was with Joel what? 4 years? 5? Joel not only killed her father who she’d known all her life, but an entire FACTION. That’s many fathers, brothers, sisters and mothers. The fact no one can even see that a little bit that maybe someone willing and able in that world might want revenge and can only bitch and moan about it is fascinating.
@@Moorhys Then we should stop games like Call of Duty too, or any strategy games, or any game that involve sentients beings and killing them. This is a game, if it not good then people will say it's not good, it simple.
This game felt like a fever dream when I played it. It is one of the best games I have ever played. Everything about its gameplay, graphics, and environments was perfect. But the story was so unbelievably bad, so enragingly horrible, I just couldn't believe it was from the same game I was enjoying playing so much. The whole story felt like that scene from Bojack Horseman, where Bojack wants to separate his name from his old sitcom. So he gets high and makes a pilot to a new show, where he literally takes a shit on his old sitcom's DVD. Trying to show that he's capable of being mature and edgy. That's kinda what it feels like ND is doing with The Last of Us, only they didn't sober up and realize just how fucking stupid the whole thing was after the fact.
Now imagine a post credit scene where Ellie wakes up, Joel is sitting beside her, Ellie breaks down and explains everything and Joel, trying to comfort her, says “Part 2? Just a bad dream, kiddo”.
The difference is that the world of TLOU is the kind of world where people die pointless deaths, either by stupidity, arrogance or bad luck. A hero's death with guns blazing for Joel would have gone against the tone of the world-building. Their lives are short, full of pain, death and sorrow and they usually end violently. Joel, knew that, Ellie knows that, Abby knows that but most of the people complaining about the game don't. But with Luke you are correct. That entire "character arc" for Luke was made by people who didn't create Luke, as a polar opposite of what people expected Luke's status be after Return of the Jedi. Star Wars as a franchise is, in the end, about hope and light, not dark and depressing. It's an action-adventure in the stars. A version of Luke that is a ghost of a man who tries to push away everything that not only makes him as a character but also makes the franchise was a terrible choice to make by Rian Johnson. Whatever is your opinion about The Last of Us Part 2, the fact is, it's Druckmann's story, characters and world. Luke Skywalker wasn't Rian Johnson's.
@@HenkkaArtGames Although you are right, I think people would have been happier if Joel died to a pack of clickers. Rember Marlene's line,"How long before she dies to a pack of clickers?" It could have been a heroic sacrifice and an ironic echo.
@@HenkkaArtGames People like you really make me doubt that you guys even played the first game. You almost sound happy that Joel died that shitty pointless death.... which not a single person who played the first game and has more than 2 brain cells would want. Killing off a beloved character is fine, it doesn't have to be some kind of guns blazing vibe but this is definetly not the way to do it.
@@HenkkaArtGames the problem is not that he dies, and not even the way he dies for me, but the fact that the game spends half of the story trying to tell me that he deserved it, i should hate him and he wasnt worthy of a different death.
Yeah Joel's decision at the hospital had real life dire consequences, that's lame. Joel should have pushed forward and killed 8 people in a minute like he was Marcus Fenix or Nathan Drake.
I had a chuckle when she said 'Bigot sandwich'. In a world gone to hell you'd think a word like that wouldn't even be part of people's vocabulary. Ellie must of found an old Iphone with the Young Turks and other SJW podcasts on it.
It's feminism at it's finest like first they tell Women being pregnant shouldn't be allowed to work then they have this idea so that it may reinforce their thinking that women are equally capable of men in the battlefields no matter what the situation. That's not feminists thinking but Neil Conmann's thinking let that sink in.
@@itsyaboyj0j0 Survival =/= going out on scouting and combat raids....plenty of stuff either preggo could do at home without endangering their offspring and consequently becoming hazards for others
Why is nobody mentioning the fact that this is not in fact a cycle of meaningless violence? Abby is a murderer who deserves to be brought to justice. On the other hand Joel is completely justified in his actions, because the Fireflies never obtained either his or Ellie’s consent for the procedure, what they are attempting would be recognised as murder by any civilised justice system. Therefore what Ellie is seeking is justice, not revenge. Justice recognises that some violence is necessary to prevent immoral people (like Abby and her friends) from committing immoral acts, either by sentence of death or imprisonment. Abby and her friends deserved to be punished because what they did was morally wrong. Ellie did not deserve what happened to her at all, and her, Tommy, and Joel all deserved to have justice done.
On the other hand Joel could have just crippled Abby’s dad instead of killing him he didn’t have a gun so Joel could have just blown his legs of then everyone is happy
@@nonjaninja4904 I mean sure? But that still doesn’t mean you aren’t going to piss lots of people off. Imagine if you made a FPS cod style game series and in the last entry mid way through the game it turned into cooking mama, subversive, yes, enjoyable and fun to the audience, no.
@@_bigdipper If your aim is cheap shock value or to piss off fans, sure. I guess killing off a beloved character in a way that isn't akin to smearing shit over canvas and pretending it's art requires a bit of effort.
When thinking about Ellie showing mercy to Joel's killer. Don't forget about Ellie killing that random slaver/bikie begging for his life. So Ellie can kill a random bikie. But she cant avenge Joel.
Man the very fact that you've referenced Metal Gear Solid must be applauded. That series features such marvelous writing and character development which really hit a crescendo with Snake Eater. Good analysis in your video as well..
I watched this back when you first released it but it's only again after playing the game that I am amazed with the fact that you came up with not one, not two, but 4 significantly better plot lines then what they decided to go with in the game.
My biggest problem with the story was that when Ellie goes to get revenge on Abby, the main theme of the story is "Seeking Revenge will only take you down a path of endless pain", but when you play as Abby this is switched around entirely. The fact of the matter is that Ellie and Abby are ultimately guilty of the same things, but we're supposed to see Ellie as being morally reprehensible, and Abby as morally righteous.
This is normal. People are fearful of being left out, but once they join the clubs they notice it's not so good and people aren't so damned terrific. Impress to those a-holes? What was I thinking? It's called maturing. Especially if you don't want to be part of the dumb tribalistic behavior of people.
2 years later, but here we go - my biggest issue with the game - imagine you’re driving home, you stop at a gas station, you get a call from a close person, he / she tells you that one of your family members has just died, as you’re about to enter your car, some random guy asks you if you can help him change his tire cause it's an emergency- this random guy can be the best human that ever lived - you probably won’t help him, currently you don’t care about him, his life, where he has to go since he needs his tire changed asap, you just want to be with people you do care about.... simillar situation is in this game - we follow ellie throughout entire first game, for the first half of second game, we care about her, her story, her problems, her friends etc... we then have to put all of that on hold and have abby (who we most likely hate by now) and her friends, her story, her problems and all of her other stuff shoved down our throats.... just how exactly does that make sense.... i get it they want us to see things from her perspective, but there are million better ways to do that than ''stop thinking about characters you like immediately, lose all the emotional connections you have with them as well as negative emotions you have towards this character we want yo to empathise with and be a clean slate'' .... not only is that impossible for any non-sociopath, but it just so happens that joel and ellie's relationship from the first game was million times better done than whatever they did with abby.... also ''seeing things from other people's perspective, so we can empathise with them'' doesnt automatically mean ''i'm siding with that person''.... if my child needs kidney transplant and some other guy's kid needs one as well and it's either my child or his - should i ''see things from his perspective'' and decide ''you know what, this is a good guy, his son needs a kidney, i'm gonna let my kid die''....? (also i'll add what i add in every of my tlou2 comments - the first one had perfect ending, the devs messed up the moment they started poking it with a stick)
Jhay teh AwSoam, Shanks is the second strongest swordsman in the world in One Piece next to Mihawk, and despite him missing his left arm he’s still a master swordsman whenever it comes to swordsmanship in combat, so it seems that Japanese video games, anime/manga, and light novels/visual novels are objectively better than Western Entertainment made nowadays.
@TheDoogieT , a fucking arm is a lot more pain than a person chopping off my thumb, and despite Shanks missing his arm he’s the second strongest swordsman next to Mihawk in the world of One Piece.
I think we all knew Ellie was gay from the Left Behind DLC from the first game. As to Abby, it would have been better story telling if she had more emotion than a brick wall (and she didn't murder Joel so brutally), the fact that the game makes us play AS her for about 10-15 hours really annoyed me to the point of if I happened to die to being cornered by a Clicker, I was like "oh no, Abby died" in the most sarcrastic voice possible. I felt more attached to her dog, Huey I think his name is, Lev and his sister, and Manny than Abby herself. The game beats us over the head with the idea that Ellie and Joel are bad and Abby is good, but when your supposed "good" character feels no remorse for killing innocents (ie. Dina after learning she is pregnant), yeah, there is no attachment to that character, AT ALL. EDIT: Another factor that annoyed me was that in the first game, Ellie's immunity was a huge part of the story, but in the second it barely gets a mention and only because Dina witnesses Ellie breathing spores after she loses her mask, then it gets swept under the rug like it wasn't that big a deal.
Even if we knew Ellie was gay, it wasn't necessary to beat us over the head in such a way as to shove in love making scenes like they did. My God man we aren't treated to that in other games with heterosexual relationships. It feels so spiteful like Niel is saying, "see? Ellie is gay and I'm gonna make sure you know that!" Shit I half expected Ellie to fall for Abby and make sweet love to her at the end rather than kill her. Niel already subverted our expectations in a disrespectful manner anyway
Also, if people didn't play the DLC, like I didn't, then it's not relevant. It wasn't hamfisted in the original game so it wasn't necessary in this one!
Really? I think it wasn't clear enough. Maybe it needed some more scenes where Ellie does gay things. And talks about being gay. And how people are bigots.
That's the shit I DON'T get when Drinker points it out. Isn't Tommy also SUPER OBVIOUSLY straight, because he has a wife? Or Jesse? Like, what's so distracting about Ellie being gay, exactly? And also why does Drinker think Abby's proportions are unrealistic? IN the video, he showed a picture of an ACTUAL woman who's even buffer than Abby, so... what??
I am just going to pretend this game never happened and go on with my head canon of what I thought this game would be. Joel and Ellie return to the settlement of Jackson to enjoy the initial beauty of a tight knit post apocalyptic community living in an environment not ruined by the ravages of man. But the realities of survival begin to weigh on them both, especially Ellie, because there is a reason why there is a genre called survival horror. Ellie grows increasingly bitter about the world she lives in, and more deeply mourns the one she lost. Joel is forced to watch Ellie and the rest of the community suffer with increasing guilt that he single handily robbed them of a chance to escape it. It builds to a point where Joel is forced to relive the horror of losing his daughter again, but this time Ellie is dying of a disease that would have been banal to deal with in the world they lost. Joel goes on another quest to find what’s needed to save Ellie, but in doing do is forced to abandon Ellie and the community, with no way of knowing what their fate might be. During this time Ellie recovers, and goes after Joel in the hopes of finding home bringing him home before this dangerous quest kills him. Ultimately she is unsuccessful, reaching Joel, but too late to save him, or even let him know that she lived. Joel dies fighting a group of infected which would have killed Ellie, but is ultimately unaware that he has saved her again.
"They wanted to put an end to the cycle of revenge" Anybody remember that sweet sweet feeling after Captain Price hanged Makarov, lit up a cigar and smoked it? Yeah, I do!!
@Anifowose Habeeb Pepperidge Farm remembers :D But yeah, that was a GREAT scene. That whole mission was fanfuckingtastic. Price and Yuri sticking it out to dust that scumbag.
@Wackaz - Arthur Wacker ellie decides to come back knowing dina wont be there for her and abby whole community hates her, all her friends r dead, put urself in their shows, who would u rather b?
One of the writing "rules" I learned was that you can use an improbable coincidence to get your character into trouble, but not out of it. However I see this principal broken so many times and it's maddening. What a cheap way out for writers. I'm glad you called it out.
"you can use an improbable coincidence to get your character into trouble, but not out of it" So what's your complaint? How did an "improbable coincidence" get anyone in this story OUT of trouble?
@@liamlive2972 it's not even close to impossible. We have enough innate strength in our jaws to bite fingers off like carrots. Given they were fighting to death can say safe to say adrenaline was turning her natural inhibtors off which while she'd be able to bite off Ellie's fingers she'd also tear the muscles in her mouth doing it and possible break some bones
After having played this a few times, I’ve come to feel that its main flaw was in its structure. Had we begun the game as Abby discovering her fallen father and built up many hours to growing with her struggles until meeting Joel, I doubt there would’ve been such resistance to his death. Or at least it would have been understood. But if you’re going to simply kill him right off the bat in the most brutal and disrespectful manner by a complete stranger whose motivations have not been established after many players had spent time playing him protecting, getting to know, and coming to love Ellie, and then demand players to jump in her shoes after that fact, of _course_ people will hate her, and no amount of trying to make the player empathize with her after that would ever be enough. Players will refuse on general principle. Perhaps that was the point, that the game is a type of empathy experiment to see how many could overcome such bias, but I think it was a failure in narrative structure before it even began and should have been shot down at the conceptual stage. Many players hated Abby so much they lost all interest in even playing the game due to disgust, which was perfectly understandable, and Neil should have understood this. Forcing us to fight Ellie as the murderer of the one we invested dozens of hours in playing as protecting and growing to know her was nothing but incredibly insulting and came off as a slap in the face to the fans, nigh borderline contemptuous of them. You can’t underestimate the power of player investment and attachment to established characters. That’s something you honor and protect, not betray and exploit.
This. And I believe they always intended it to be presented in this order to the players, as a reverse version of the first game, to give the player the choice first and the backstory later. And I think if you would play the sequences in chronological order the game would make zero sense any more, because it would be perfectly obvious for everyone to see, that the scenes were not made with character development and continuity in mind, but with the cheap, manipulative thought, that the players view on the characters must be converted by the end of the game. Same goes for Horizon Zero Dawn. How am I supposed to care for this world that I've never seen the main character be part of, if the only way you lay out the story is through flashbacks, lore-dumps, notes and holotapes?
@@jameswinter482 You had me until the Horizon part. That wasn't the point of the game, it's supposed to be about uncovering the mystery of the world you're currently in. Comparing these two games makes absolutely no sense. Other than that weird point, I agree.
No, no. Even if the game had started with Abby, you don't just kill the beloved character from the previous game for the sake of the new one from the sequel. That's just shit.
I first thought of this whole fathers day dillema as a conspiracy, because woke culture was never very subtle, but it appears to happen more often with each year passing by.
ENOUGH WITH THE HATE!!! ANY woman can EASILY look like this!!! It just takes the following each week: 200mg testosterone Cyp. 100mg tren 75mg Anavar 5000 calories daily burritos/zebra meat. EASILY done during an apocalypse!
All of your alternate scenarios for the plot are so much better than what we got. They are not only clever, but they are emotionally and morally fulfilling. Last of Us 2 bothers me greatly because it mirrors the worse aspects of humanity, the "my clan" over anyone who opposes us, even if we are in the wrong and our clan is the moral bad guys. It is the state of politics we watch every night on the news.
@@darthjesus7079 Lets debate a made up characters made up sexuality. Yay! I remember when games were about gaming, the gameplay. If i am going to be forced through a red tinted lens, i'm not going to pay for the "priviledge".
@@ImperativeGames which is another unrealistic aspect of her character. You'd need to eat in absolute excess to build muscle and I doubt they had spare food in such a setting.
After about 2 yrs i can finally say that it just feels abrupt… like killing all the npcs its not like ellie’s emotions change or her moves get more lazy like imagine if in the later part of the game you couldnt set an enemy on fire or like your melee gets more sloppy because you are tired but there is nothing its like they expect the players to think ellie sees gigantor’s life like we do
They should have given us her back story and shown us her character development before she killed Joel. Starting her story off brutally killing him makes her unredeemable in our eyes.
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad" - Shigeru Miyamoto Neil Druckmann: "Watch me ruin his quote with a golf club and a badly paced plot"
Japanese guy think everyone is competent like him. Western developer: "You underestimate how few brain cells I have or how little I care about my results!"
I will never accept how they treated Joel in this game. They turned a hero from the 1st game into a villain on the 2nd. If they give him an arc which made him a true villain, it'll be ok; but not like this
He was never a hero though? Bro literally didn’t give a shit about other people until he met Ellie and even then he killed an entire hospital because of his selfishness
@@WAyuso34 I would have done the same thing as Joel. Why would I sacrifice someone I love for something that might not even work? He already lost his biological daughter. He wasn't willing to lose his adopted daughter.
You mean that part in the first game where Ellie looked at a porno mag that featured only men to "see what the big deal is" and threw it away was actually meant to let the player know that she's not sexually attracted to men?
I don't believe can you show me where in the trailer she kissed a woman or point to a specific scene in the game of her kissing or smashing with a lady
This is where rockstar games win. No focus on protagonist's love interest and relationships stuff. Just being protagonist and doing anything for survival 💯🔥
I remember when this game came out!! Wow.. The shock and confusion and amazement of the gameplay were just epic.. Looking back, it is still 1 of the most tragic video game stories I've ever seen.
10/10 gameplay; 0/10 story. A 5/10 game overall, that's how i see it. One of the biggest wasted potentials in history, because Neil knew that, no matter how the game would be eventually received, the hype and love the first game created would be more than enough to carry this mess through. No wonder that so far, we have a Remaster, another Remaster ( disguised as a Remake ) and a live action TV series, all from the first game, because that's the one people actually care about.
Dina seems like the last person you'd ever want to take with you on a very personal long-term quest. She'd only been dating Ellie for 2 weeks when the game starts. She's the kind of person who has to be in a relationship all the time. She seems to lie and constantly try and one-up Ellie. She's impulsive, fickle, and ultimately disloyal. It felt like she was gonna betray Ellie if things started going south. SPOILER She kinda did at the end.
No kidding. Having that Oompa Loompa looking bitch follow me around was a bigger nightmare than the zombies. Watching her soft and frail 5’2 frame physically overpower superhuman enemies was as immersion breaking as flying cows.
I once heard this game described as "The Last Jedi of video games," and that hits the nail on the head. The Last of Us 2 is exactly what it was intended by Neil Druckmann to be. It was conceived, developed, and polished all to specifically inflict as much emotional pain as humanly possible on anyone who loved the original game. Why? Because Neil Druckmann hates you. He believes you are a racist, white supremacist, homophobic, and whatever other -ist or -phobe of a video gamer, and wants to hurt you out of spite. Thus, this game's story excels at that, and only that. I hope it was worth it, Mr. Druckmann. May your work here never be forgotten, so that we may not make the same mistake and choose to rather avoid your products in the future.
Is the cure still possible? How does Jackson sustain itself? How does Ellie and Joel’s relationship continue to flourish how will that lie come into play? Will Joel justify to her his decision? The story was so bad and frustrating
So many unanswered questions or story angles not used for this mid revenge is bad mmkay storyline. How about having Abby's team being sent to different settlements for cooperation against a bigger threat and realizing she has to work with her father's killer for survival? Joel can still be killed and it hits harder since Abby is initially a friend and not just for shock value.
Hero: murders a thousand mooks.
Gets to main villain: "If I kill you, I'll be just like you."
Who is the hero and who is the villain?
Yep, and I'm pretty sure if someone murdered my friends and bit my fingers off I'd have little compunction about finishing the job.
@@nurgle11 I'd tear out her windpipe with my bare hands. Hell, with my my teeth if I had to.
@The Bandog You're disappointed that the majority of soldiers are men? Is that not realistic?
Yep. Narrative dissonance. The whole plot of this game is driven by Joel killing that one doctor in the first game. Something none of us gave any thought to when we first played it back then. But this game sees Ellie slaughter hundreds of people. In theory, there are thousands of people out there who want to go after her. If you use the logic that Druckmann did when crafting the narrative of this game, then the cycle of revenge is far from over.
Ellie: I can't forgive a random guy who calls me a mean word but I sure can forgive the person who killed my only father figure. 10/10 masterpiece
Eh, it's kind of a setup for her story ark, which is one of the story elements I found work well.
Her being petty and unforgiving is what led to her major regret: not reconciling with Joel while he was still alive. So she ultimately decides to change that part of herself and in order to do so she forgives the single person that is beyond forgiving.
She decides that going through with that change will honor Joel more than revenge would.
And I think that story ark is incredibly muddled by insulting attempts of developers to redeem Abby in players' eyes. She should've been an off-screen goon the entire game, really.
@@BackFromSpace Meh, I don't know. That's a bit hard to swallow. I think you put more thought into the SL than the developers did tbh. But hey, if that's what you got out of it then good on you. I personally think it's a total cop-out, especially after Ellie got her fingers bitten off, which literally severed her last connection to Joel. Bitch would have gotten two in the chest and two in the dome just to be sure.
Yeah I’m over leftist propaganda being shoved in my face constantly.
This is so disingenuous. Nowhere in the game is it said that Ellie can literally never forgive Seth. Also, she doesn't try to kill Seth??? Terrible comparison. Typical of Gamers.
@@CIintB3ASTW0oD Yeah, I agree about the details that are clowny, like the fingers, the way Joel died, the fact that Ellie leaves the guitar instead of re-learning to play left-handed, etc, etc.
I think the outline of the story is pretty neat, but the execution is by and large botched.
" There was a sequel. Wasn't very good " - Joel
What sequel?
Wait, wasn't this a first game quote? I hope so, because wow... it's been an age...
@@authorofgriz No, this quote is from the second game. It happens during the flashback of Ellie's birthday.
@@tarun_kumar_29 makes it funnier ngl,cause in a way even joel knew that tlou2's story was shit XD
@@SVD63Ninja Joel was right. The sequel "wasn't as good". I don't remember him calling it shit though.
I could understand Ellie realising at the last moment that revenge isn't what she really wanted and choosing to let Abby go... if she hadn't just tracked Abby across multiple states and killed over 300 people to get to her
We, the players, don't get to see that flashback about Joel and Ellie's last talk until the end. But Ellie knew. That was in Ellie's head all this time. And what about Abby killing Jesse, and mutilating Tommy, and almost slicing Dina's throat AFTER getting her deranged revenge? The story is garbage. So broken in so many ways.
That's lame indeed
Hate that trope. You already killed people that were probably more innocent than the person you want revenge on.
Why in Kill Bill Vol 1. I like where The Bride spared that one teenager and told him to go back to his mother.
ohhh,... because she don't want to kill her.... she want to kill all her friends an allies..... so "gigantor" feels what she feels when male patriarch died... is a woman type of revenge .. see..??
“I could understand Ellie realizing at the last moment that revenge isn’t what she really wanted and choosing to let Abby go… if she didn’t realize at the last moment that revenge isn’t what she really wanted and choosing to let Abby go”
Idk how the length of time changes the meaning of what happens imo
The Last of Us 3: Ellie gets eaten by a bear and you watch her corpse decompose for 10 hours. Meanwhile, Gigantor finally becomes a real woman, only to realize she's Ellie's mother from another timeline. Also, dancing deer.
I can see this happening. "How brave to go so far as to kill off Ellie! 10 out of 10"
I am absolutely going to call Abby "Gigantor" from now on.
Also the bear is gay. I don’t know if you’re aware of that.
Like a SOAD song.
@@00pugsly48 ah ya beat me to it lol
The Joel in the first game legit ran over a guy on the street that was pretending to be injured because he assumed he was faking it and was familiar with these kind of tricks because of his past. He didn't even hesitate when he did it.
"Hmm, look at that: the fellow could be injured......time to put him out of his misery."
*Flooring intensifies*
@Artuurs Z.
No he didn't. He stops the car because he's startled and puts on his seatbelt, then seconds later he's already telling Ellie to put on her seatbelt as he gets in position to run over the guy.
idiot
@Artuurs Z. He was taking in the situation and thinking of his options. He couldn't exactly go back now could he?
@Artuurs Z. Do you have a digital tick?
Seems you end all your sentences with idiot...
That just makes him more likeable to me tbh
Just imagine John Wick goes through the entire movie killing mobsters but at the end he spares the guy who killed his dog.
Agh, yeah. This one. This one is a good comparison.
Yeah tha-that would have left a bad taste in everyone's mouths.
And that's just a for a fukin dog imagine if it was for a human being
Stolen comment
"Its just a fucking do-". "Its just fucking Joel"
What pisses me off is all the people basically act like it's guaranteed that they'd find a cure. All the fireflys are like "she would want this", why not fucking ask her to be sure?
They killed many people before Ellie while doing the operation and failing it every time regardless, and on top of that they try to do the operation without telling Ellie it could kill her and getting permission from her to do it. THAT is why this "debate" naughty dog thinks is there doesn't exist. Joel made the right choice. Fuck Gigantor. Fuck her Dad. Fuck the fireflies.
I know right. I get that her dad was supposed to be a doctor and help people, but operating on people without their approval isn’t exactly an ethical standard.
@@somethingawesome1462 and to pretend like it's guaranteed to work and find a cure is also wrong.
@@jackw9385 Even if they did get the cure, how would thye distribute it, and the power imbalance would be crazy as they would be the only group with the cure meaning they could just become a dictatorship. Watch A Closer Look's video on this, cause he rewrites the story to be way better!
@@somethingawesome1462 Even if "operating on people without their approval" is their only chance at saving humanity from extinction? Are you even aware of what real people have done in the past (and present) for much lesser reasons?
Best comment I've seen about this;
"This is a game about right and wrong made by people who think they are always right."
@Artisan Yes... nihilists.
@Artisan "an stupid" Now you're just doing it on purpose.
@Artisan It's actually an accurate comment because socialists feel (not think, mind you) they're always right.
@@tach5884 Take my like, hahahahahahaha!!!
@Artisan Well, it's through that leftist agenda that they think they are right, but it's such a hopeless and dismal "right" that it drives away most 'you-do-you', non-political, laid-back folk. Maybe "right" to them is to indulge in your anger, arouse your sexual fantasies, and degrade all men as nihilistic figures who will not redeem society at all.
If being "right" is accepting those things, accepting that life is nothing, then I don't want to be right.
Love how Ellie kills everyone who were just there when Joel was getting killed and spared the one who actually killed Joel.
But she didn’t want to become just like Gigantor.
Also Ellie is gay by the way.
Right!! 🤣
@@nathantudor5763 Well too late for that
Don’t forget to mention the 250 people and 20 dogs you killed to get there
Because revenge bad
Joel legit saved abbys life, you think if abby had even half a brain she could see Joel is not this heartless animal she thinks him of
Now, please tell me if you remember this. Do you remember in the first one, how Joel kills Abby’s dad, the rest of the people in the hospital, and took Ellie away, and killed the leader of the fireflies to which Abby belonged too, effectively ending any chance the world had of developing a vaccine.
Now, just because he helped out a stranger who was in trouble, does not absolve the sin of all of the rest of what he’s done to her.
If YOU had half a brain cell, you’d be asking yourself how come you’re not thoughtful enough to even understand?
"You don't get to rush this." She's a psychopath, not a victim. And the "game" wants you to sympathize with her.
THIS. The game tries so hard to get you to sympathize with Abby, but my God does it do a horrible job. Not once in the game does Abby show any signs of regret for the things she’s done. This game could have been so much more.
@@lesb1anlov3r36 Imagine playing the first one for 6 hours as David, and having to sympathize with him.
In fact, Troy is on video saying that Joel and David are basically on equal ground and David did "nothing wrong." What. The. Hell.
@Radisa Gunawardane Because she was a deranged psychopath. No other former Firefly gave a F about finding and killing Joel. Everyone had lost family, everyone had killed people in that world. There was absolutely nothing special about Abby losing her father. Even Owen constantly pushes back on her obsessive quest for revenge.
And btw, Joel saved Abby's life. Doesn't make any difference to her. Lev saves Abby because Yara insists on it, and they bond for life. Complete BS.
Joel's biggest downfall? Trusting a woman who looks like She-Hulk......
We waited 7 years for that. The whole story behind a fucking sequel should not in any way be over A RANDOM CHARACTER, murdering THE BELOVED PROTAGONIST...
And yet, people are still defending this damn game
@@LTJfan If they wanted to do a redemption arc like this, they should’ve saved it for the TV show, not a video game.
This is because you can skip the episodes, also give more depth to the backstory, and show the emotions more naturally. Instead with a game we’re forced to play as this asshole and feel sympathy for her…
Imagine if The Walking Dead was a game, and in all the episodes showing The Governor’s “redemption” we were forced to play as him. Imagine playing as fucking Negan when we were shown The Sanctuary. Wouldn’t go over to well would it. Hopefully TLOU Show will redeem this bullshit arc and make it actually feel natural.
@@kamakazeyt I think this game is just really a 50/50. Joel dying was justified, maybe could have been done better towards the end of the game to show her story of revenge was for nothing. Not knowing why abby killed Joel then finding out it was because of the end of the first game makes sense, as Joel - like everyone else is a pretty terrible person. I can agree that the first game is better, but I don't really understand why people absolutely hate this game. Abby is actually a likeable character, and Ellie's revenge is in actuality just a product of the in-game universe. Also Abby isn't a random character as it was explained in the game and that explanation made total sense! Joel didn't care about who he killed and how it would affect others, he just wanted to save ellie which bit him in the arse.
@@patricktracey6014 The concept of Joel dying in the sequel? Completely justified. How it was executed in THIS game specifically (given all we know about Joel and his very untrusting nature of people he barely knows)? Definitely not.
Neil bent and twisted himself into a pretzel of coincidence and convenience to get that contrived scenario of Joel in a room, surrounded by people he doesn't know, and his brother Tommy (equally as if not MORE distrusting) blurting his name out for all to hear....
In no way, shape, or form was that justified to have ever happened if written by some one who actually cared about writing a death for a beloved character, that both knew the character and their traits inside and out and respected their agency in the scenario they were trying to craft.
Neil just wants to be done with it and he wants Joel where he wants him to be for it to happen. Like Drinker said, its contrived as hell for the sake of emotional manipulation and it sucks so much that it had to be in a sequel to one of the best games of the PS3 generation.
@@yumyumeatemup I agree, maybe they could have added an hour or two at the start with abby, Joel and tommy to make them more comfortable with eachother and trust slighty. However, I dont think this warrants such a terrible back lash that it got, with Moist Critical giving it 55% and the overall negative feedback it got from the community.
“Ellie’s gay by the way”
- The Drinker
Don't worry, it's not yours.
WHAT? No way. Gonna need more proof than that. Pffbt
Well then, humanity is fucked I guess... :-P
I'm still not 100% sure but, is Ellie gay?
Reviewed the lore.
Ellie cant be gay, theres no proof that her balls touched anyone else's.
Notice how absolutely no one talks about this game anymore, while the first game was talked about positively for 7 freaking years.
And still continues to be positively talked about!
Yet here you are, talking about it. hmmmmmmm
I miss you lee
Yet here you are talking about it, along with all the so called hurt and triggered people making video and crying because it won game of the year, the joystick awards and literally the most awards from Playstation users. The game is currently the most popular exclusive game on Playstation 4 right now, it is the most streamed and watch exclusive PS4 game and sitting at number 4 on Amazon for best selling Playstation 4 games, 6 months after release
@@Redemption-64 you basically said the exact same thing as me only worse
Joel absolutely WOULDNT trust a group of strangers so quickly. He would not do that. That’s my problem. He WOULDNT do that.
After four years living in a civilized, organized town, it's not surprising that Joel doesn't think of other survivors as immediate enemies.
@@e.m.francis6946 it’s not even just thinking of them as enemies. You wouldn’t let your guard down so easily no matter how civilized you are. He was standing in the middle of the room.
@@Small_child_punter If I had just rushed through a zombie horde with someone, while we protected each other through it, I wouldn't think that giving them my name would be a problem, unless I had been living in comfort for several years and I didn't take seriously the repercussions of the decision to kill dozens of people years before.
@IronThreads good writers wouldn’t go against a character that everyone loved and was universally well received. Joel wouldn’t do this but my guess is to make Ellie be more in charge they made him a weak fumbling old man.
The pain and troubles that hardened Joel into a tough and dangerous man didn’t suddenly go away because he saved a little girl he grew to like. He’d still be just as stand off-ish.
@@e.m.francis6946 Joel was smiling while he stood in the center of the room and gave out his name. He wouldn’t do that. He didn’t press for information about this group. Joel isn’t stupid. It’s a mistake we would make but not him. He has been doing this shit for decades.
Holy carp! The idea about Tommy convincing Gigantor that he's Joel and giving his life for his big brother sounds powerful af!
Amazing what happens when you do some creative thinking, actual work!
So first there’s holy cows, and now there’s holy carps. What next? Cats?
@@farawaysaturn3682*holy cats. Get it right. Lol
"Because Gigantor beat her fingers off for the massive protein hits."
Trash viewer bit
"My liver's even more fucked than usual"! Gotta love it!
Did you mean Gigantor beat herself off with Ellie's two fingers?
@@SchubertDipDab i hope that's in the dlc
Fuckin steroids ladssss
This is a stolen comment but I wanna leave it here for all to ponder:
“It’s strange times we live in when a God of War sequel is making a better story about the bond between a father and their child and the values of strength, survival, determination, love, wisdom and forgiveness than a sequel to The Last of Us.” Let that sink in.
Honestly, God of War 2018 is the real Last of Us part 2
@@haydeng3316 Considering that Kratos, and by extension Atreus, are the only Greek Gods left.
@@buggart Last of Us would work better as an anthology series. Change my mind.
@@thepillowhead2453 I'd say it would have worked better as a standalone title. As it did
@@thepillowhead2453 I agree.
Ok but there’s a bigger plot hole that you missed. Where does Abby get her steroids from in a post apocalyptic world. Surely the devs didn’t think that we would believe a woman can look like that naturally? Wait…
Easy solution: Who says this game takes place in the post apocalypse?
Everyone has infinite resources, people are having big dances in barns, people have gyms. What separates this game from Far Cry 5?
@@crazyinsane500 You almost had me there. For a second I thought you were being serious
@@crazyinsane500 truly masterful bait
Because Neil clearly has no clue of the amount of muscle that the human female body can naturally achieve. He probably thinks as long as you lift a few weights then you'll look just like her.
The irony is the model they used for Abby's body (Colleen Fostch) is juiced out the ass.
usually I would agree with this type of comment since most women are certainly not like abby and in the game they aren't either but in real life there are some genetic outliers I know this because my sister of 16 years is built like a tank and exactly like abby (tho she looks and acts more like louisa from encanto because she's a sweet huge tank) most ppl think she's a man when they only see her from behind and when she turns around there she is with her feminine beautiful face, my family thinks it's got huge parts to do with the fact that she went swimming from the ages of like 7 to about 13 but I think it's just a genetic thing some ppl are just genetic outliers
it just makes me sad that women that do look like that usually end up getting super insecure about their physique because of being called a man despite not being able to actually change anything abt their physical appearance apart from literally maybe letting go of working out or doing sports entirely
she at the time is cutting for example to lose some fat but she's still gaining muscle rapidly it's insane (no she isn't using roids cause my dad would take her down a peg if she did and well she herself isn't a fan of all that stuff which is good)
My biggest problem with this game is not necessarily that Joel was killed off (although I still don't like it), it is that the game forces you to play half of it as his killer.
Mine too. Once I got to that part of the game I shut it off and almost didn't play it again. I reluctantly picked it up again a few days later because I couldn't NOT finish it.
I feel like you’re missing the point. It’s about understanding a character despite their actions, and possibly the reasons behind it. The first game did the same thing with Joel. He wasn’t a good person, and what he did at the end was clearly wrong; but the point is that you understand why.
@@theworld6710 Oh I understand quite well, thank you. But an unlikable character does not become more so even if you know their motives. No, Joel was never a good person, but he was what we invested our time in and with when The Last of Us was new. It was through him we learned to enjoy the setting and the story. To kill him off and force players to play as his murderer is arguably a bad design choice, and it is arrogant to believe that people, in general, would see it as a favourable move, which is why the fanbase is so split when it comes to the sequel.
@@ShadowKayvaan You claim to understand, and yet continue as though you don’t.
As you admit, Joel wasn’t a good person. It was merely familiarity and investment that connected people with him.
It’s the same with Abby. Their stories are parallels.
Abby is a bad person, we can see that with what she does to Joel. But she improves herself by learning to care for other people? Sound familiar.
It isn’t arrogant. It’s expecting your audience to be able to think and consider your themes. Apparently, they expected too much out of many people.
Not only is he tortured to death, but the entire revenge plot goes nowhere as Ellie allows the main villain to just leave at the end instead of finishing off Abby.
Which means Joel’s brutal death meant absolutely nothing.
If you’re trying to tell a story about how revenge and murder are dehumanizing, maybe don’t force the player to wade through an ocean of bodies and blood only to suddenly forgive the final boss
Male bodies though so they don't count
Also, don't have the antagonist get both a successful revenge and a relatively happy ending.
@@theotherjared9824 and don't have the antagonist survive essentially solely because they got their revenge
@@mrbouncelol there not all males
The game looks more than ordinarily disturbing re violence.
Can you believe that Ellie fell in love with a girl that happened to be bisexual and at the same time pregnant with her ex boyfriend's baby that would die later so Ellie and Dîna can have a baby of their own, a happy lesbian couple living in a farm in a post apocalyptic world... This has got to be some next level fan fiction writing
And at the end Ellie is alone because fck Ellie, how dare she tried to avenge her father figure? Revenge bad! The only person that gets away with revenge is Abby!
@Biggie Jones shhh SHHHHH You CAN'T say that! No one wants to hear biological facts! That's HATE SPEECH lmfao
Biggie Jones I just despise the regressive left
She was already lesbian though lmao why is that such a big deal you’re butthurt by lesbians lmao funny
@@Kiddo_williams Also, not the point.
Imagine sitting there for hours, exploring, leveling/boosting up, and acquiring resources for the main protagonist of the game while hunting down the antagonist and killing her cronies...
Now, imagine halfway through, the game forces you to play, explore, level/boost up, and acquire weapons and resources for that same antagonist you've just spent hours prepping to kill... How dumb.
Now, imagine spending hours upon hours finally getting to the final fight of the game, just to not finish what you started.
The Last Waste of Time: Part II.
Very true, except there was never a part 1 to this: The first game didn't have this issue
@@Star-wb2ov Actually I’m considering the remake coming out which is literally called part I the actual game part II was a sequel to, cuz we know they’re going to change shit to match this game. I consider the original it’s own pure timeline where Ellie obviously knew Joel was lying at the end, and the others in an alternate depressing stupid timeline.
@@darthdragonborn1552 I don't think they'll change the story in the remake cause people hated TLOU2, and only critics liked it. If they changed the loved original, the backlash would be probably one of the biggest controversies in gaming history, maybe behind the invention of DLC's and lootboxes.
Spiderman home< Crqazy good last of us!
I loved the first game, but quit the second when they switched to gigantor and never played it again. I hate what they did...
The funniest thing about this game is how quickly it was sent to the clearance sale bargain bin. Within a month, game resale stores were inundated with TLOU2 copies that they had to put the kibosh on accepting them.
That truly was the best part, and all the "sold millions of copies, cope chud" comments refuse to acknowledge it.
its obvious that although it sold millions, it still didnt reach sonys expectations as we havnt heard of any other sales announcements since the launch.
I think this is another case against "pre-ordering". If game or movie that have large "first day" sales, that will cover future sales and make it successful. Last of us part 2 and Last Jedi had this case: they had a lot of build-up from well beloved IP so pre-orders are going to be sky-high, plus their publishers did really good cover-ups for the leaks so those who paid in advance didnt question their purchase thinking that are getting what they want and at the end we get product that had 50% sales drop in after launch and public that will have even less trust in your future projects. So pls people do it as Yathzee (Zero punctuation) says: "Can you pls, stop pre-ordering!?".
Spiderman home< Crqazy good last of us!
Can confirm even on psn the game go down to 10 bucks
"but I'm gonna call her Gigantor, because I'm an immature asshole and it makes me laugh! haha!" Best quote ever. Honesty is so refreshing!
"Aren't we all. Drinker? Aren't we all..."
*GI-GAAAN-TOOR!*
Speed is the first thing that pops into mind. I would have called her Chunk.
Except for the part where he keeps referring to a dude as a "her"
@@Blizzhoof Nah. They just made a roided up woman, without knowing how anatomy works apparently. If Abby HAD been Trans, ND would have made it a point for you to know.
I shall forever call Abby as Gigantor.
Amen!
I call her She-Hulk Hogan
How about abbyzilla?
Or senator abbystrong
Had me in stitches 🤣😂
TLOU Ellie : "This can't all be for nothing"
TLOU2 Ellie : "Actually I guess it can"
Looks to me like the game also suffers from a classic modern trope. 'Selective Empathy'.
You're supposed to care about Abbey, her life, her revenge and its consequences to the point where you understand why Elly doesn't kill her. But what about all the others she kills? The game seems to ignore that story-wise, those are all people too. With hopes, dreams, fears and souls. Snuffed out like they didn't even exist.
What the developer forgot is that you can't have it both ways. You can't have a violent, murderous setting where people are offed left right and centre to then U-turn and have an emotional story about forgiveness, revenge bad and letting go. That's why the first game works, it knows this and doesn't spin you a tale about morality because both characters aren't afforded the luxury of morals most of the time. Kill or be killed, that was the rule.
This trope returns in many games and movies these days and it's annoying because you have to turn your brain off and not think about the many murders committed and find compassion in your heart for the one character you *do* have a reason to loathe.
If you didn't feel bad about killing people as Abby then that's on you. Selective Empathy is a responsibility of the viewer in the case of a video game. The cutscenes and story went a ways to demonstrate why these people feel bad about what they're doing. Did you skip everything?
Or selective empathy how I'm supposed to feel for Abby, but not Joel?
I played as Joel. I get Joel. The Fireflies are doing it for the best of intentions, but they're about to murder my adopted lesbian daughter and I'm not about to let them do that.
Ironic that you cant see the elective empathy you have for Joel. What about all the people he murders in cold blood at the end of the first game? Were those not people with hopes and dreams and fears and souls as well?
@@Say_No_To_e-Girls Both Joel and Abby are seemingly written as morally ambiguous characters but its a lot harder to "feel" for Abby than it is for Joel. Joel at least seems to do bad things for the sake of a greater good. And even when it isn't for morally right reasons like survival, I can still understand his actions and reactions based on the kind of world they're living in. Abby on the other hand has committed straight up unnecessary murder. And even though the story tries to show Abby as growing as a person, I still feel Joel's actions were always more justifiable than Abby's. And I don't think its selective empathy to see one person having a better justifications than the other given their circumstances, even if they both did something considered "wrong".
@@Say_No_To_e-Girls In cold blood? They were all armed and were probably going to kill him anyway. And about Jerry... it was rather stupid to threaten a guy carrying an arsenal with a tiny scalpel.
“Is this a story that really needed to be told?” - The Critical Drinker
About sums up my feelings.
The real answer: "This game is a really high budget fanfiction."
In all fairness, the first wasn't a story that NEEDED to be told either. I'd say very few fictions NEED to be told.
@@RagnarokMic What are you an idiot
This is the Batman v Superman of video games.
game shouldn't exist, there was no reason to make part two period
Myself from some years ago would agree with you that "taking risks" needs to be praised, but now my very cynical myself can't stop thinking that that concept is used often to justify lazy writing. Still great analysis Drinker
Exactly. There are good risks and bad risks. These are bad risks.
TLJ was a risk. If I asked myself after seeing TFA if I wanted them to take risks I would have said yes. Now I would say to just burn it all
No surprise, these people will turn our ideals and virtues against us.
We must spare them no quarter.
Patrick Towey the result being bad doesn’t make it a bad risk
also for video game this type of story telling is just insulting, this cheap story for sure as movie or tv show, but for video game it just slap to the face
Gameplay: ✅
Everything else: ❌
I will never preorder a game again after this. It’s two years and I still cannot forgive those fuckers for killing Joel. And really, killing him just to advance “the message” The most beautiful two characters together in any game where Joel and Elli Together and they completely destroyed it
Killing Joel? When? That never happened in last of us. If only they made a sequel
@@cristiantapia631 I’m here watching Drinker’s review after the HBO show inspired me to reply TLOU. I’m totally on board with your comment lol.
If they just killed him in a much better way like a few of the ways in this fair review/critic or a 1000 other ways, MAN, it may have been amazing but the way it was done ... sigh
@@prizethought agreed 👍
@IronThreads sorry there was no dlc either. Doesn't exist, maybe lesbian fan fiction circulating online but not with the actual game.
They were animals, so I slaughtered them like animals. Not only the men, but also the women who had done nothing against me, and also their pets; but I saved Gigantor who savagely killed my parent figure in front of me.
OMG can you believe if Anakin saves the sand people in the end because those monsters are just misunderstood.
Was that not the story of the great Schwarzeneggers epic "Commando"? He kills some 79 men, then spares the main villain... Oh wait...
10 out of 10- IG fucking N.
@Alex Davila its getting a tv show
@@tjenahoj let off some steam bennet
Gigantor doesn’t kill Ellie because she has the script. She knows Ellie will eventually save her and let her escape. She’s a genius!
Drew O'Pry I clic this comment to write that lol!!
Gigantor😂🤣
That, to me, is the stage at which you can truly say the haters have a genuine point about Druckmann trying to push an agenda with this plot.
Druckmann obviously wanted to have a transgender character in the story but the role of protagonist was already taken by Ellie, so he was forced to put Abby in the role of 'villain'. BUT, he still wanted her to be relatable for the sake of 'muh progressivism', so he has Abby spare Ellie after killing Joel - even though it's a decision which makes no sense logically and which also seems out of character for Abby anyway.
@@CopiousDoinksLLC do you think abby is transgender?
@@buttermilk5364 I think Druckmann wanted Abby to be transgender all along but walked it back at the last second by including some childhood scenes with Abby as a girl so he could have deniability in case there was backlash over the decision (and there was). It was a smart move on his part... But not as smart as writing a story that people actually wanted to see.
Last of Us 2 should have been a completely new story following New characters. They could've dipped into the early struggles of the outbreak and the creation of safe zones, or the fireflies. Maybe even do a story about ppl on their own journey that either come across happenings from the first game like environmental changes or witnessing events from a distance and choosing not to get involved.
If done right u could string it out to allude to a possible meet up in future games. Could have your actions drag Joel & Ellie into getting involved.
That WOULD have been better. At least Ellie would still be that great, foul-mouthed, energetic character she was... instead of devolving into a sad, angry killing machine.
To me the story was fine. I don’t give a damn how much of a bond Joel and Ellie had, Joel knew he probably wasn’t gonna die a peaceful death with the amount of ppl he killed. It’s funny how people forget every action has a consequence, Joel would’ve got his comeuppance whether then or 5 years from when he died. Ppl don’t forgive and forget, just like the ppl that sought revenge for Joel’s death Abby had the same motivation
@@msinna6433 true but it is about the delivery of the story, this was probably the lamest story ever, abby (or at least by playable persons) just being a she-hulk while Ellie kills half an army by herself. This was just so bad finishing the game just didn't feel rewarding as there were so many potholes and dumb story progressions. What's even worse is that probably the best character combo's (dinna & Ellie, Tommy & Ellie and Joel & Ellie) for the next game is already dead only because of how the game ended. Going to wait on the users reviews for the next instalment, game sites often only review the first 2 hours because of deadlines.
@@msinna6433fuck the people he killed, most were bad anyway
Amy Hennig was forced out of Naughty Dog for not being feminist enough. Thanks Neil Druckman.
Let's reiterate that. A woman who earned everything she had was bullied by a privileged, nepotistic white man into leaving her dream job. A woman who proved herself with her own talents had a horrible career setback by a man who thought too highly of himself.
Amy Hennig greatly contributed to The Legacy of Kain, Jak & Daxter, and The Last of Us. Video game stories that are subversive and informative. Neil Druckman is responsible for TLoU Part II. A game that is more divisive than a calculator.
I can only assume that Neil got Amy ousted because she isn't particularly good looking.
With Nolan North, the voice of Nathan Drake, himself admitting this, it becomes a bigger problem than usual.
Good thing Sony's got plenty of people desperate to keep good ties with them, or this could have blown up badly for them.
He's Israeli though. So he can do whatever he wants.
@@embracerodusk2537 Oh he is? I better shut my fucking mouth unless he calls the ADL to get me fired.
Neil is also “responsible” for last of us 1 and uncharted 4
I mean you can dislike the game but come on man
You mispelled ''Jew'' for ''white''.
Thought provoking narratives: Offer up a moral conundrum, and have a character choose one of these 2 evils, with the immediate and far reaching consequences being left up to the player to ponder upon whether the decision made was the right one.
Uninspired and boring narratives: Revenge bad. Why revenge bad? Gigantor get revenge, then revenge good. But other girl get revenge? No good. Revenge mean lose fingers, no play guitar and wife take baby. Revenge. Bad.
Bingo!
Best shit i read online today.
Kudos ///
Considering gigantor lost everyone and everything i dont agree with this
@@introvert6705 what is the last thing abbey and ellie attempted on-screen ?
-at least abbie get to leave with that kid, and rowed on the boat she intended on
- ellie ? We see how gnarly her hands look with couple fingers missing, cant even play the guitar.
And walking into the wilderness is not what ellie wanted / claimed to want.
--- see ?
Then the original comment was trying to be funny, not to take it as a hard core review or something.
Thats it for today,
Go away now.
@@btchiaintkidding7837 the thing is it doesnt need to be "balanced out" both went trough so much that it doesnt matter anymore.
Imagine if John Wick ended with John Wick forgiving the guy who killed his dog.
that would be deserving of hearing an audience member shout out "ha, gaiiiiiiiiiiii"
@@gurgamous would be nothing less than perfect
The difference however, is that TLOU2 builds to that conclusion. In John Wick, Wick doesn't show any signs of remorse or guit for what he's doing. He's going to get revenge and that's that and we the audience are supposed to root for that. Wheras TLOU2 shows us Ellie is in the wrong and is forcing herself through it in a misguided way to solve her PTSD and the audience is supposed to recognize that.
@@FraserSouris Ellie is actually right. She FUCKING killed Joel. Fuck that! I'd do worse. I'd torture her for hours for what she did
@@rhyscallinan4402 “I can never forgive you for that. But I would like to try”
It's weird that none of the google results say anything positive about Joel's decision, google results also claim that last of us 2 is great game yet I find comment sections full of people defending Joel's decision and whenever I look for similar games to play, part 2 is never there.
Honestly, after seeing countless woke movies where even negative reviews are censored (looking at you rings of powers), I start to think that results in google are not fully natural
and you are damn right.
You'll be amazed by the amount of people that are defending this game still to this day and claiming it's one of the greatest games ever made. I fuckin despise the human race sometimes. It's not even a game it's literally just a wank fest for wokery, propaganda, transgender and gay representation and just SJW snowflake bullshittery in general. Joel was right to massacre a bunch of people that wanted to operate on and kill a 14 year old without getting any permission and not only that but do it after failing the operation countless times before and as a result killing people for absolutely no reason. That's why this big conflict Cuckmann thought he had created for the player to feel does not exist. This game was just an excuse to force people to watch a white male protagonist get beaten to death by a transgender woke bodybuilder and to later on in the game watch that same transgender bodybuilder get pegged by some weird dude in the most disgusting, depraved, uncomfortable and unnecessary sex scene I've ever seen in my life.
Another thing that ruins the game is what seems to be Neil’s personal views shoved into the game.
I remember when the leak happened, the enemies were going to be “homophobic christians”, something that seems to have been changed or altered, albeit not too much. And there were rumors that in the TV show, all the bad guys were going to be exclusively men. Don’t know if that’s going to be changed.
And Neil’s self-insert……….how can a game dev make an insert of himself AND have it disrespect a main Character’s death so much?
well, he is part of the small hat club so nothing surprising there.
Neil Druckmann is a Jew
Well, there are female villains in the TV show (Katelyn and Marlene).
They did change David's group to be Christian nutbag cultists, but there's no real reason to do that since it didn't add anything to the story.
@@xitaris5981 but it did lol. the reason Lev and Yara were being hunted was because they didn't abide by the cult's values. thats a direct influence on the story
I mean she could have just tuned the guitar to drop D then she'd only need one finger to play some sick power chords
Or just flip and restring the guitar altogether.
Her brain was in that fingers she lost, Or ABBY hit hewr so much that she got a concussion.
@@samuelabbottchannel yeah can't she just learn to play left handed
PROJECT LOOKING GLASS it would take a long time but it would def be possible
See Django Reinhardt.
Ellie "no stop she's pregnant"
Abby "good"
And we're meant to sympathize with this character?
He only wanted stem cells from this unborn baby to get even bigger
I loved Joel but Ellie was with Joel what? 4 years? 5? Joel not only killed her father who she’d known all her life, but an entire FACTION. That’s many fathers, brothers, sisters and mothers. The fact no one can even see that a little bit that maybe someone willing and able in that world might want revenge and can only bitch and moan about it is fascinating.
@@Moorhys You are so far away from the point that i'am questioning myself about writing this comment.
@@Moorhys you do know the fireflies was bombing buildings and killed innocents right. Did you play the first game?
@@Moorhys Then we should stop games like Call of Duty too, or any strategy games, or any game that involve sentients beings and killing them. This is a game, if it not good then people will say it's not good, it simple.
This game felt like a fever dream when I played it. It is one of the best games I have ever played. Everything about its gameplay, graphics, and environments was perfect. But the story was so unbelievably bad, so enragingly horrible, I just couldn't believe it was from the same game I was enjoying playing so much.
The whole story felt like that scene from Bojack Horseman, where Bojack wants to separate his name from his old sitcom. So he gets high and makes a pilot to a new show, where he literally takes a shit on his old sitcom's DVD. Trying to show that he's capable of being mature and edgy. That's kinda what it feels like ND is doing with The Last of Us, only they didn't sober up and realize just how fucking stupid the whole thing was after the fact.
Now imagine a post credit scene where Ellie wakes up, Joel is sitting beside her, Ellie breaks down and explains everything and Joel, trying to comfort her, says “Part 2? Just a bad dream, kiddo”.
This is my canon
They should update the game
@@realtalkrealthingsent.8024yes, save the franchise from neil fuckman
The Last of Us 2 Summary: Revenge is bad, life is sad, Ellie is gay btw.
It’s basically gangs of New York
End of game. Story is bad.
Game is bad. end of story.
@Clippy "...not put too fine a point on."
It's like half of the fucking story. How is that not "too fine of a point"?
@Clippy It's just a joke my dude.
Luke: I'm going to die a pointless death to subvert expectations while angering my core fans.
Joel: FORE!!!
The difference is that the world of TLOU is the kind of world where people die pointless deaths, either by stupidity, arrogance or bad luck. A hero's death with guns blazing for Joel would have gone against the tone of the world-building. Their lives are short, full of pain, death and sorrow and they usually end violently. Joel, knew that, Ellie knows that, Abby knows that but most of the people complaining about the game don't.
But with Luke you are correct. That entire "character arc" for Luke was made by people who didn't create Luke, as a polar opposite of what people expected Luke's status be after Return of the Jedi. Star Wars as a franchise is, in the end, about hope and light, not dark and depressing. It's an action-adventure in the stars. A version of Luke that is a ghost of a man who tries to push away everything that not only makes him as a character but also makes the franchise was a terrible choice to make by Rian Johnson.
Whatever is your opinion about The Last of Us Part 2, the fact is, it's Druckmann's story, characters and world. Luke Skywalker wasn't Rian Johnson's.
@@HenkkaArtGames Although you are right, I think people would have been happier if Joel died to a pack of clickers. Rember Marlene's line,"How long before she dies to a pack of clickers?" It could have been a heroic sacrifice and an ironic echo.
@@HenkkaArtGames People like you really make me doubt that you guys even played the first game. You almost sound happy that Joel died that shitty pointless death.... which not a single person who played the first game and has more than 2 brain cells would want. Killing off a beloved character is fine, it doesn't have to be some kind of guns blazing vibe but this is definetly not the way to do it.
@@HenkkaArtGames the problem is not that he dies, and not even the way he dies for me, but the fact that the game spends half of the story trying to tell me that he deserved it, i should hate him and he wasnt worthy of a different death.
Yeah Joel's decision at the hospital had real life dire consequences, that's lame. Joel should have pushed forward and killed 8 people in a minute like he was Marcus Fenix or Nathan Drake.
I had a chuckle when she said 'Bigot sandwich'. In a world gone to hell you'd think a word like that wouldn't even be part of people's vocabulary. Ellie must of found an old Iphone with the Young Turks and other SJW podcasts on it.
I'm just going to pretend part 2 never occurred. It's better this way.
....heavily pregnant woman who goes into battle where she can be either killed or taken as a prisoner, the last of brain cells 2.
@Revan It is Lord Revan, it is
It's feminism at it's finest like first they tell Women being pregnant shouldn't be allowed to work then they have this idea so that it may reinforce their thinking that women are equally capable of men in the battlefields no matter what the situation. That's not feminists thinking but Neil Conmann's thinking let that sink in.
Pregnant goi smokez weed, goes into battle, and drinks whiskey
Isn't the point of 'survival horror' to do everything possible to survive? Why would a pregnant woman not fight for survival
...?
@@itsyaboyj0j0
Survival =/= going out on scouting and combat raids....plenty of stuff either preggo could do at home without endangering their offspring and consequently becoming hazards for others
only problem with this review is that I think you should’ve clarified Ellie’s sexuality, I’m still incredibly confused
She's bi
Hahaa yeh man
:)))))
She's gay, by the way...
Same
"Ellie’s gay by the way"
IGN 10/10
But they gave alians isolation 5/10
LOU2 story better than RD2
@@aungwin5885 " it's a bigot sandwich " vs " this is over. You gotta pick yourself and run and never look back . we gotta pay for our sins "
Why is nobody mentioning the fact that this is not in fact a cycle of meaningless violence? Abby is a murderer who deserves to be brought to justice. On the other hand Joel is completely justified in his actions, because the Fireflies never obtained either his or Ellie’s consent for the procedure, what they are attempting would be recognised as murder by any civilised justice system. Therefore what Ellie is seeking is justice, not revenge. Justice recognises that some violence is necessary to prevent immoral people (like Abby and her friends) from committing immoral acts, either by sentence of death or imprisonment. Abby and her friends deserved to be punished because what they did was morally wrong. Ellie did not deserve what happened to her at all, and her, Tommy, and Joel all deserved to have justice done.
*Gigantor is a murderer...
On the other hand Joel could have just crippled Abby’s dad instead of killing him he didn’t have a gun so Joel could have just blown his legs of then everyone is happy
I hate gigantor as well but she had every right to kill joel. Justified or not, her dad got killed by that man.
@@T-800skynett Why do you "hate" Abby? Because she lifts weights? Do you "hate" the model they based her on?
@@e.m.francis6946 i hate her because she killed joel you sensitive child
I'm starting to really despise this trend of killing main characters from previous entries in a franchise in demeaning ways.
Should have given Joel a Viking funeral in my opinion
It's a subversive technique.
@@nonjaninja4904 I mean sure? But that still doesn’t mean you aren’t going to piss lots of people off. Imagine if you made a FPS cod style game series and in the last entry mid way through the game it turned into cooking mama, subversive, yes, enjoyable and fun to the audience, no.
Should be done more frequently tbh.
@@_bigdipper If your aim is cheap shock value or to piss off fans, sure. I guess killing off a beloved character in a way that isn't akin to smearing shit over canvas and pretending it's art requires a bit of effort.
When thinking about Ellie showing mercy to Joel's killer. Don't forget about Ellie killing that random slaver/bikie begging for his life. So Ellie can kill a random bikie. But she cant avenge Joel.
That Biker didn't let Ellie live twice.
@@movieswithmatticus5469 He also didn't kill Joel and cripple his brother. Or kill Jesse and bite Ellie's fingers off.
@Elephants Are Cool He did see Ellie’s new bite. She pretty much had to kill him so he won’t babble to his friends about her being infected.
@@Khaled-F um abby's dad was going to kill ellie
@@Khaled-F how would the vaccine be distributed
Man the very fact that you've referenced Metal Gear Solid must be applauded. That series features such marvelous writing and character development which really hit a crescendo with Snake Eater. Good analysis in your video as well..
I still can’t get over plot’s stupidity. At least you could make it about someone close to Marlene who wasn’t a npc
The unceremonious murder of the previous male hero to promote a female one with no personality seems to be a common theme of 2015 - 2022.
Yep. I don’t want to live on this planet anymore. 😩😩😩😩
i need to ss this
In other words: fuck feminism
Ellie has no personality??????
@@orestissinis7807 Abby has no real personality, and admittedly Ellie's personality seems somewhat eroded compared to the previous game
"See, there was a sequel. Wasn't as good." - Joel Miller
Toxicity “Get out while you still can.” -Joel
Sequels these days follow the plot line of "Stupid people, doing stupid things."
THEY KILL ANGRY JEO
I watched this back when you first released it but it's only again after playing the game that I am amazed with the fact that you came up with not one, not two, but 4 significantly better plot lines then what they decided to go with in the game.
My biggest problem with the story was that when Ellie goes to get revenge on Abby, the main theme of the story is "Seeking Revenge will only take you down a path of endless pain", but when you play as Abby this is switched around entirely.
The fact of the matter is that Ellie and Abby are ultimately guilty of the same things, but we're supposed to see Ellie as being morally reprehensible, and Abby as morally righteous.
"Pulled your finger out of Dina" bruh this dude a savage
Didja know Ellie wuz gey?
Ad Lockhorst a fellow italian i see
It's true tho lol
First game Ellie: “I’m afraid of ending up alone.” Second game Ellie: *ends up alone*
Because of her out of character stupidity
This is normal. People are fearful of being left out, but once they join the clubs they notice it's not so good and people aren't so damned terrific. Impress to those a-holes? What was I thinking?
It's called maturing. Especially if you don't want to be part of the dumb tribalistic behavior of people.
@@Hirnlego999 Cope much?
tHe FuTuRe Is WhAt U mAkE oF iT
@@42billybob Not so much personally..
2 years later, but here we go - my biggest issue with the game - imagine you’re driving home, you stop at a gas station, you get a call from a close person, he / she tells you that one of your family members has just died, as you’re about to enter your car, some random guy asks you if you can help him change his tire cause it's an emergency- this random guy can be the best human that ever lived - you probably won’t help him, currently you don’t care about him, his life, where he has to go since he needs his tire changed asap, you just want to be with people you do care about.... simillar situation is in this game - we follow ellie throughout entire first game, for the first half of second game, we care about her, her story, her problems, her friends etc... we then have to put all of that on hold and have abby (who we most likely hate by now) and her friends, her story, her problems and all of her other stuff shoved down our throats.... just how exactly does that make sense.... i get it they want us to see things from her perspective, but there are million better ways to do that than ''stop thinking about characters you like immediately, lose all the emotional connections you have with them as well as negative emotions you have towards this character we want yo to empathise with and be a clean slate'' .... not only is that impossible for any non-sociopath, but it just so happens that joel and ellie's relationship from the first game was million times better done than whatever they did with abby.... also ''seeing things from other people's perspective, so we can empathise with them'' doesnt automatically mean ''i'm siding with that person''.... if my child needs kidney transplant and some other guy's kid needs one as well and it's either my child or his - should i ''see things from his perspective'' and decide ''you know what, this is a good guy, his son needs a kidney, i'm gonna let my kid die''....? (also i'll add what i add in every of my tlou2 comments - the first one had perfect ending, the devs messed up the moment they started poking it with a stick)
Abby killing Joel in the intro is like a random Uruk killing Aragorn in the intro of Two Towers coz Aragorn killed that Uruk's dad.
Accurate. Just write a better story. It was a reach, and didn't pay off.
Original: The last of us
Sequel: The lack of us fans II
Still breaks sells records, seems like fans are there.
@@Darkness1984 Thats because those people expect a good game. People expected the same from Suicide Squad and that made a billion worldwide.
"There was a sequel, it wasn't as good" - Joel Miller.
@@Darkness1984 Due to deceptive marketing.
😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣 awesome comment.
Ellie: gives up guitar because she lost two fingers
Tony Iommi: *P A T H E T I C*
Rick Allen: Truly Pathetic
Jhay teh AwSoam, Shanks is the second strongest swordsman in the world in One Piece next to Mihawk, and despite him missing his left arm he’s still a master swordsman whenever it comes to swordsmanship in combat, so it seems that Japanese video games, anime/manga, and light novels/visual novels are objectively better than Western Entertainment made nowadays.
Just needed metal fingers and she'd be good to go
@TheDoogieT , a fucking arm is a lot more pain than a person chopping off my thumb, and despite Shanks missing his arm he’s the second strongest swordsman next to Mihawk in the world of One Piece.
@Bobby Papoutsis that'd make more sense then"nope , can play better throw this guitar that was joels last memory out, who needs guitar anyway"
To make it easy I just don’t consider the last of us two canon, works like a charm
Classic response to a classic scenario. Groovy.
@@BrickDaniels-qu7bzWhy does that sound like sarcasm 🤔
I think we all knew Ellie was gay from the Left Behind DLC from the first game.
As to Abby, it would have been better story telling if she had more emotion than a brick wall (and she didn't murder Joel so brutally), the fact that the game makes us play AS her for about 10-15 hours really annoyed me to the point of if I happened to die to being cornered by a Clicker, I was like "oh no, Abby died" in the most sarcrastic voice possible. I felt more attached to her dog, Huey I think his name is, Lev and his sister, and Manny than Abby herself.
The game beats us over the head with the idea that Ellie and Joel are bad and Abby is good, but when your supposed "good" character feels no remorse for killing innocents (ie. Dina after learning she is pregnant), yeah, there is no attachment to that character, AT ALL.
EDIT: Another factor that annoyed me was that in the first game, Ellie's immunity was a huge part of the story, but in the second it barely gets a mention and only because Dina witnesses Ellie breathing spores after she loses her mask, then it gets swept under the rug like it wasn't that big a deal.
Thank you! I mean i love the drinkers review but that was a fact well stablished in the first games DLC
it wasn't in the base game but i guess that doesn't matter...
@@JaneDoe-nl1vdremastered
Even if we knew Ellie was gay, it wasn't necessary to beat us over the head in such a way as to shove in love making scenes like they did. My God man we aren't treated to that in other games with heterosexual relationships. It feels so spiteful like Niel is saying, "see? Ellie is gay and I'm gonna make sure you know that!" Shit I half expected Ellie to fall for Abby and make sweet love to her at the end rather than kill her. Niel already subverted our expectations in a disrespectful manner anyway
Also, if people didn't play the DLC, like I didn't, then it's not relevant. It wasn't hamfisted in the original game so it wasn't necessary in this one!
The only thing bigger than Abby’s arms was the mistake they call “the story”.
Insert roblox death sound.
Games with a story the player can't affect are hardly games at all.
@@starseed96 Effect. But you're right.
@@starseed96 Honestly that is why I love KOTOR 2. Your choices have concequeces and you have a lot of freedom in terms of choice.
@@archstanton9073 He used affect in the correct manner. I suggest you revise your understanding of the two words.
"Ellie is Gay by the way." - The Critical Drinker 2020.
It's crazy how he picked up the subtle clues
Just like her real life counterpart ripoff..Ellen Page. Coincidence?! I think not.
I'm still not sure tho
Really? I think it wasn't clear enough. Maybe it needed some more scenes where Ellie does gay things. And talks about being gay. And how people are bigots.
That's the shit I DON'T get when Drinker points it out. Isn't Tommy also SUPER OBVIOUSLY straight, because he has a wife? Or Jesse? Like, what's so distracting about Ellie being gay, exactly? And also why does Drinker think Abby's proportions are unrealistic? IN the video, he showed a picture of an ACTUAL woman who's even buffer than Abby, so... what??
I've never been so dissatisfied, disappointed, and pissed off at a game in my life.
I am just going to pretend this game never happened and go on with my head canon of what I thought this game would be. Joel and Ellie return to the settlement of Jackson to enjoy the initial beauty of a tight knit post apocalyptic community living in an environment not ruined by the ravages of man. But the realities of survival begin to weigh on them both, especially Ellie, because there is a reason why there is a genre called survival horror. Ellie grows increasingly bitter about the world she lives in, and more deeply mourns the one she lost. Joel is forced to watch Ellie and the rest of the community suffer with increasing guilt that he single handily robbed them of a chance to escape it. It builds to a point where Joel is forced to relive the horror of losing his daughter again, but this time Ellie is dying of a disease that would have been banal to deal with in the world they lost. Joel goes on another quest to find what’s needed to save Ellie, but in doing do is forced to abandon Ellie and the community, with no way of knowing what their fate might be. During this time Ellie recovers, and goes after Joel in the hopes of finding home bringing him home before this dangerous quest kills him. Ultimately she is unsuccessful, reaching Joel, but too late to save him, or even let him know that she lived. Joel dies fighting a group of infected which would have killed Ellie, but is ultimately unaware that he has saved her again.
This is infinitely better than the crap cuckman wrote for tlou2
"They wanted to put an end to the cycle of revenge"
Anybody remember that sweet sweet feeling after Captain Price hanged Makarov, lit up a cigar and smoked it? Yeah, I do!!
@Anifowose Habeeb Pepperidge Farm remembers :D But yeah, that was a GREAT scene. That whole mission was fanfuckingtastic. Price and Yuri sticking it out to dust that scumbag.
Yeah but you're supposed hate makarov and empathize with abby
Ya m8 but soap yuri and everyone is gone but cpt.price I guess revenge is sweet but it has it price
@@CIintB3ASTW0oD SHIT, you beat me to the joke!
It's hilarious every single time.😅😅🤣
That was epic bro
"No one wins"
Abby did. She killed Joel and got away with it.
Exactly.
In doing so, all of her friends were killed including the love of her life essentially.
Plus, Abby got to get away with Lev, so she wasn't alone at the end, unlike Ellie who got her worst fear come to life, her being alone.
And she found the fireflys.
@Wackaz - Arthur Wacker ellie decides to come back knowing dina wont be there for her and abby whole community hates her, all her friends r dead, put urself in their shows, who would u rather b?
One of the writing "rules" I learned was that you can use an improbable coincidence to get your character into trouble, but not out of it. However I see this principal broken so many times and it's maddening. What a cheap way out for writers. I'm glad you called it out.
"you can use an improbable coincidence to get your character into trouble, but not out of it"
So what's your complaint? How did an "improbable coincidence" get anyone in this story OUT of trouble?
@@e.m.francis6946 11:00 Ellie goes out on her own and just magically runs into Joel when she's surrounded.
The second "Nah it'll be fine" @ 7:05 gets me all the time😂😂😂😂😂😂
"Bit her fingers off for the massive protein hit" . Pure gold. XD
BTW ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO BITE FINGERS OFF
Liam Live Loop Gigantor’s jaw strength is probably equivocal to a gator’s.
@@MasterPodi TRUE
@@liamlive2972 it's not even close to impossible. We have enough innate strength in our jaws to bite fingers off like carrots. Given they were fighting to death can say safe to say adrenaline was turning her natural inhibtors off which while she'd be able to bite off Ellie's fingers she'd also tear the muscles in her mouth doing it and possible break some bones
@@Aeririn TRUST ME IT WOULD BE LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE. THE GAME IS REALLY UNREALISTIC
Abby: Who are you?
Joel: My name is Nathan and this is my brother Sam.
*END CREDITS*
Dat wouldve been a cool easter egg if the story took a different path
@@autruff18 Nah, this should be a new game + easter egg. A real reason to re-watch cutscenes.
You can actually find the Sic Parvis Magna ring in the game. It was in the Bank during the Downtown Seattle mission
@@thunderhammer7 lol that would've been a sick Easter egg
Dooood I'm playing the first game and I recently just got to that part lmao
After having played this a few times, I’ve come to feel that its main flaw was in its structure.
Had we begun the game as Abby discovering her fallen father and built up many hours to growing with her struggles until meeting Joel, I doubt there would’ve been such resistance to his death. Or at least it would have been understood. But if you’re going to simply kill him right off the bat in the most brutal and disrespectful manner by a complete stranger whose motivations have not been established after many players had spent time playing him protecting, getting to know, and coming to love Ellie, and then demand players to jump in her shoes after that fact, of _course_ people will hate her, and no amount of trying to make the player empathize with her after that would ever be enough. Players will refuse on general principle.
Perhaps that was the point, that the game is a type of empathy experiment to see how many could overcome such bias, but I think it was a failure in narrative structure before it even began and should have been shot down at the conceptual stage. Many players hated Abby so much they lost all interest in even playing the game due to disgust, which was perfectly understandable, and Neil should have understood this. Forcing us to fight Ellie as the murderer of the one we invested dozens of hours in playing as protecting and growing to know her was nothing but incredibly insulting and came off as a slap in the face to the fans, nigh borderline contemptuous of them.
You can’t underestimate the power of player investment and attachment to established characters. That’s something you honor and protect, not betray and exploit.
This. And I believe they always intended it to be presented in this order to the players, as a reverse version of the first game, to give the player the choice first and the backstory later. And I think if you would play the sequences in chronological order the game would make zero sense any more, because it would be perfectly obvious for everyone to see, that the scenes were not made with character development and continuity in mind, but with the cheap, manipulative thought, that the players view on the characters must be converted by the end of the game. Same goes for Horizon Zero Dawn. How am I supposed to care for this world that I've never seen the main character be part of, if the only way you lay out the story is through flashbacks, lore-dumps, notes and holotapes?
THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYINGGGG
This game is told backwards
@@jameswinter482 You had me until the Horizon part. That wasn't the point of the game, it's supposed to be about uncovering the mystery of the world you're currently in. Comparing these two games makes absolutely no sense.
Other than that weird point, I agree.
No, no. Even if the game had started with Abby, you don't just kill the beloved character from the previous game for the sake of the new one from the sequel. That's just shit.
@@jameswinter482
I agree except you're wrong about horizon
Video games do NOT need sex scenes. It is the lowest kind of pandering.
Theres nothing wrong with sex scenes.
@@quasi-intellecual3790 He aint wrong it looks weird,awkward and is unlikable
Not sure how you missed a game about a father daughter relationship and releases on fathers day. Father dies 2 hours in. Working as intended.
We can't have positive male role models any more
And naughty dog even post happy father day on twitter using joel picture 🤣🤣
@@JesseCuster Sure we can, there's Abby
This is particulary insulting yes. Its part of what made it so shitty. The contempt
I first thought of this whole fathers day dillema as a conspiracy, because woke culture was never very subtle, but it appears to happen more often with each year passing by.
"This is Abby, a theoretical woman..." - One of the best descriptions yet
dude, when i heard that i immediately came to write it in comment but saw you came first
I was NO GOOD after I heard that shit! lmmfaoooo!
Ellie is also a theoretical woman along with Tess, Marlene, Maria etc
Anyone can be a woman if you force people to use your pronouns
ENOUGH WITH THE HATE!!! ANY woman can EASILY look like this!!! It just takes the following each week:
200mg testosterone Cyp.
100mg tren
75mg Anavar
5000 calories daily burritos/zebra meat.
EASILY done during an apocalypse!
All of your alternate scenarios for the plot are so much better than what we got. They are not only clever, but they are emotionally and morally fulfilling.
Last of Us 2 bothers me greatly because it mirrors the worse aspects of humanity, the "my clan" over anyone who opposes us, even if we are in the wrong and our clan is the moral bad guys. It is the state of politics we watch every night on the news.
As a man, Gigantor's biceps made me kind of jealous.
"Ellie Gays by the way" the quote that will not be forgotten......chris
I thought she was supposed to bi, not fully gay.
@@Pikashades based on what? Ellie never showed interest in boys, only girls as I am aware - Riley, Cat & Dina.
@@darthjesus7079 the porn magazine with a giant dong she stole from Bill and the lack of disgust.
@@Pikashades eh, that's weak
Lack of disgust can hardly be equated to active attraction
@@darthjesus7079 Lets debate a made up characters made up sexuality. Yay!
I remember when games were about gaming, the gameplay. If i am going to be forced through a red tinted lens, i'm not going to pay for the "priviledge".
"She bit her fingers off for the massive protein hit" Lool dead
You have to get that mass from somewhere in post-apoc ^^
@@ImperativeGames which is another unrealistic aspect of her character. You'd need to eat in absolute excess to build muscle and I doubt they had spare food in such a setting.
After about 2 yrs i can finally say that it just feels abrupt… like killing all the npcs its not like ellie’s emotions change or her moves get more lazy like imagine if in the later part of the game you couldnt set an enemy on fire or like your melee gets more sloppy because you are tired but there is nothing its like they expect the players to think ellie sees gigantor’s life like we do
They should have given us her back story and shown us her character development before she killed Joel. Starting her story off brutally killing him makes her unredeemable in our eyes.
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad" - Shigeru Miyamoto
Neil Druckmann: "Watch me ruin his quote with a golf club and a badly paced plot"
I now know for a fact he never played Duke Nukem Forever.
Japanese guy think everyone is competent like him.
Western developer: "You underestimate how few brain cells I have or how little I care about my results!"
@@Shorty_Lickens I was gonna say the same haha. That game forever ruined hype for me
does no one remember majoras mask?
@@johntaxpayer2523 I was a bit young for the wait on that one. I remeber playing it when I was like 5 and just giving up like 4 hours in haha
"Ellie's gay by the way"
-The Critical Drinker, 2020
yes gay conversion is easy.
Yo I heard Ellie is gay based on subtle in-game plot dialog.
Did I. Mention she's gay. Because she is.
She is?! The game didnt hammer that into my head enough! Damnit Neil!
I will never accept how they treated Joel in this game. They turned a hero from the 1st game into a villain on the 2nd. If they give him an arc which made him a true villain, it'll be ok; but not like this
He was never a hero though? Bro literally didn’t give a shit about other people until he met Ellie and even then he killed an entire hospital because of his selfishness
He wasn't a hero, but he certainly wasn't the villian
@@WAyuso34 I would have done the same thing as Joel. Why would I sacrifice someone I love for something that might not even work?
He already lost his biological daughter. He wasn't willing to lose his adopted daughter.
If you look closely you will notice that ellie is gay, it is really subtle so you need to look out for the *hints*
Wait. She's gay?
are you sure?
SkilledRebuilds THANK YOU. Someone finally has a plausible explanation for her insane GAINZ
You mean that part in the first game where Ellie looked at a porno mag that featured only men to "see what the big deal is" and threw it away was actually meant to let the player know that she's not sexually attracted to men?
I don't believe can you show me where in the trailer she kissed a woman or point to a specific scene in the game of her kissing or smashing with a lady
"Remember when games took the time to develop relationships?"
Yea, I do. They did it in the first Last of Us!!
Ellie's gay, by the way!
This is where rockstar games win. No focus on protagonist's love interest and relationships stuff. Just being protagonist and doing anything for survival 💯🔥
@@Vman_95 there's a whole thing with Michaels family though lol. It's just fun haha
I remember when this game came out!! Wow.. The shock and confusion and amazement of the gameplay were just epic.. Looking back, it is still 1 of the most tragic video game stories I've ever seen.
10/10 gameplay; 0/10 story. A 5/10 game overall, that's how i see it. One of the biggest wasted potentials in history, because Neil knew that, no matter how the game would be eventually received, the hype and love the first game created would be more than enough to carry this mess through. No wonder that so far, we have a Remaster, another Remaster ( disguised as a Remake ) and a live action TV series, all from the first game, because that's the one people actually care about.
Dina seems like the last person you'd ever want to take with you on a very personal long-term quest. She'd only been dating Ellie for 2 weeks when the game starts. She's the kind of person who has to be in a relationship all the time. She seems to lie and constantly try and one-up Ellie. She's impulsive, fickle, and ultimately disloyal. It felt like she was gonna betray Ellie if things started going south.
SPOILER
She kinda did at the end.
>constantly try and one-up
It's so infuriating when people do that.
They know each other for years but then again, the devs didnt show one but of that and just showed all the gay scenes.
@ryan carroll also, if you like surprises forgetaboutit. You'll always know when she's coming cuz her nose is there like 5 minutes before she is.
@Mr. A. Knight he is in the end a Mossad agent and a rampant Zionist, so what did we expect?
No kidding. Having that Oompa Loompa looking bitch follow me around was a bigger nightmare than the zombies. Watching her soft and frail 5’2 frame physically overpower superhuman enemies was as immersion breaking as flying cows.
Tommy: I'm Tommy this is my brother
Joel: Bob
Roll credits
"I am looking for a man named Joel, you know him?"
"Oh, him! Poor bastard. Very dead, torn to pieces!"
tremor230 “Damn, I guess I’ll give up. Bye bob. I like the cut of your jib!”
tremor230 “Gone, reduced to atoms”
@@tremor230 to shreds you say
You people are the best!
I once heard this game described as "The Last Jedi of video games," and that hits the nail on the head. The Last of Us 2 is exactly what it was intended by Neil Druckmann to be. It was conceived, developed, and polished all to specifically inflict as much emotional pain as humanly possible on anyone who loved the original game. Why? Because Neil Druckmann hates you. He believes you are a racist, white supremacist, homophobic, and whatever other -ist or -phobe of a video gamer, and wants to hurt you out of spite. Thus, this game's story excels at that, and only that. I hope it was worth it, Mr. Druckmann. May your work here never be forgotten, so that we may not make the same mistake and choose to rather avoid your products in the future.
Lol snowflake victim mentality
@@aviatrix7774 Team Abby?
@@deldude1412 Team Neither
@@aviatrix7774 Uh-huh, sure.
@@deldude1412 you sound like a middle schooler asking if I'm team Jacob or team Edward lol get a life 🤣.
Is the cure still possible? How does Jackson sustain itself? How does Ellie and Joel’s relationship continue to flourish how will that lie come into play? Will Joel justify to her his decision? The story was so bad and frustrating
So many unanswered questions or story angles not used for this mid revenge is bad mmkay storyline.
How about having Abby's team being sent to different settlements for cooperation against a bigger threat and realizing she has to work with her father's killer for survival? Joel can still be killed and it hits harder since Abby is initially a friend and not just for shock value.