Even discounting that Mel doesn't know the sincerity of Abby's intentions, there's a painful -- yet important -- lesson in this scene: The people you've hurt are under no obligation to forgive you. Forgiveness is given, not earned. You should put in the work and make amends because it's the right thing to do, but at the end of the day, if a person decides they can't or won't forgive you for past harms? You've just got to accept that as a consequence of your actions and keep trying to do better. Now, maybe Mel would've been more forgiving if she'd seen Abby as we did, but even if she wasn't? I couldn't hold that against her.
And to add to that, I think that was really the whole idea behind putting Abby’s perspective in the game. If we had gone the entire game as Ellie, we would have had no remorse for Abby. The writers wanted to give us a choice. To see her side and to decide on our own terms whether we forgive her or not.
The amount of parallels that can be drawn in this story. This is very well put and it immediately made me think of: "I don't think I can ever forgive you for that. But I would like to try." Joel struggled with the very same thing described here (not necessarily with his decision but Ellie's reaction to it and the way he handled it with her). Would Ellie have been more forgiving if she saw Joel as we did, as you suggest for Mel? We wouldn't know, but at the ending conversation, their last, just as you said, he was ready to accept the consequences, Ellie not forgiving him, and just trying to be better, and also feeling that he did the right thing even if it meant losing her. The basis of this story is the fact that people are people on both sides. If they met in different circumstances, they would not be inherently hostile to each other. There are so many parallels, similarities between Ellie and Abby, their respective crews, the WLF and the Seraphites, and so on.
Technically, it was Owen's fault that he and Mel died... they only spared Ellie and Tommy because Owen insisted on it. Even Mel was on board with killing them just so there wouldn't be any witnesses left.
and then abby still writes to owen (you can see the note in the boat). if I was mel, I’d be so upset. definitely gonna haunt abby in the afterlife. I love both abby & mel SO much, but abby did mel dirty. SO dirty.
I Hate how many people hate Mel. She's perfectly justified in her hate for Abby, even if Abby is becoming a better person and gets sympathy from the player. She was clearly affected by the events in Jackson and her boyfriend (WHO SHE"S PREGNENT BY) Is constantly worried about Abby and ignores her, not even bringing up the boat scene where he CHEATED on her with Abby.
Not only Mel and Owen, but Jordan (in a missable interaction) makes a comment about not talking to each other (and by extension, Leah etc.) since returning to Seattle. Pretty much everyone (except Manny) distanced themselves from Abby after Jackson. Manny is to the Salt Lake Crew what Jesse is to Team Jackson.
YES, Manny is such a good friend to his people man. he's the mom of the group for sure, just wants harmony and for everyone to be okay. another totally over-hated character
wait- I'm curious. What did Jordan say exactly? The only lines of Jordan's I remember is on the first day, where he was asking if Abby is coming with them to the Serevena.
Interesting you say that!! Manny is to Salt Lake what Jesse is to Jackson because they also both got killed in very similar ways, and both standing right next to the person whose revenge quest was the thing that got them both killed. 😬
Mel deserved so much better, she worried about Abby she supported her, probably killed for her, and what did she got? The most traumatic event of her life, being cheated on and a stab in the throat.
@@charlieberry7562 There is so much wrong with your statement idk where to begin... - Joel was NOT an innocent man. And this is coming from someone who has him tattooed on their body. I loved joel so much but he killed abbys dad. As much as i hate her, she had every right to feel vengeful. Imagine someone killed your mom or dad and got away with it. No matter why the reason they did it... is that an innocent person to you...?? - I agree that mel did put herself in harms way but in a world where any day could be your last, mel was simply just doing what she thought was right to survive. She was abbys dad's top student in the medical field, she felt she had duties to fulfill, without her yara wouldve easily died. Do i agree with mels methods? No, if i was pregnant id be resting but I am me. Mel is Mel. You have every right to dislike her character but we cant judge her on her way of survival when we havent experienced the world that she grew up in...
@@homelessalcoholic2716 walking away wouldve done NOTHING. Abby was after joel for 4 years, once she had him theres no stopping her. Id be frozen and scared too if i saw someone brutally murder another person right in front of me. By your logic everyone else in that group is also a coward.
@@homelessalcoholic2716she did go away when ellie is pinned down you can see mel and owen coming out of the garage they stayed there for the entire torture until ellie makea an entrance
Your point about Naughty Dog deleting Abby's lines about Mel/Owen starting to judge her because they were too on-the-nose shows that Naughty Dog was really trusting its audience to piece together the nuances of the characters on their own. I give them a lot of credit for challenging the player to think critically, even if it's uncomfortable from an emotional standpoint. I hope the backlash doesn't deter them or other studios from taking narrative risks and trusting the audience to challenge their own intuitions.
That's the issue with being subtle. If deeper meaning is hard to find, its like its not there at all for most. That goes double for if the deeper meaning is debatable.
@@freeziboi3249 I'm happy to hear it. I also think TLOU2's story is pretty bad, and if the director can't take criticism (real criticism, not insults) because he doesn't want to bend the knee, then he's not a good director.
Mel has every right to be angry. Imagine being in her position. She countlessly went out of her way to clean up the messes Abby made when blinded by revenge.
I don’t understand hating Mel. She was mistreated by her supposed friend Abby, who keeps inserting herself into her life with Owen (the arrow shooting scene in the aquarium irks me because no, Abby, your name didn’t have to be there, Owen was right to be hesitant and you shouldn’t have insisted) and constantly neglected by her boyfriend Owen, who is irresponsible to begin with because I think he got with her to try to forget Abby, which is shitty and emotionally irresponsible. Don’t even get me started on Owen cheating and just not caring about his pregnant gf in general. She was done so dirty by everyone, especially Abby and Owen.
I agree with pretty much everything you said except the arrow shooting thing. While you could argue that Abby was pushy, the burden was on Owen to say "Hey, this is just a fun thing between Mel and me, sorry ". He could've kept her at a friendly distance but he didn't. While Owen wasn't an irredeemable person, he really failed Mel in so many ways, specially in the end with Ellie's confrontation.
@@cloudtx oh yeah, I agree with that too. Abby shouldn’t have insisted and also, he should’ve stood his ground. But he didn’t care enough about Mel to actually try with her and really let go of Abby, it shows through in that lack of boundaries with Abby. Even if it’s a small thing like a shooting arrow game. I always felt so bad for Mel. Like, damn, it was unfair of them to treat her like that, it’s like she wasn’t even a person.
@@DiscoInfernoBaby I couldn't disagree with you more. She came across as pretty likable in the trip with Abby and Manny. Not to mention, this is a woman who was pregnant yet willing to go into the field. While you could argue she was being reckless, it shows that she cared enough about doing her duty as a member of the WLF and as a doctor that she was willing to risk it when she could've easily stayed behind. Plus, when Abby brought Yara to her, she didn't hesitate in giving medical aid to what should've been a mortal enemy because it was the right thing to do. Mel was a really good person who didn't deserve what she got nor does she deserve the hate from the fandom.
I think Abby has some good quality to her despite what's she's done, which there is quite the list. I feel as though there are circumstances that don't justify, but explain certain actions. I.e., murdering Joel how she did, the amount of anger and rage to finally be met with the silver platter to satisfy it, is a hard thing to stifle. It doesn't justify it, but there isn't an absence in logic from Abby's perspective. This might also be supported by her decision not to kill Ellie and Tommy; she was over her indulgent rage, and might have felt guilty just as soon as it was finished. Abby seems more susceptible to impulse than anything, which just seems to be a quality of hers, which, objectively, needs work. This would also apply to her treatment of Mel, she might not have Mel at the top of her mental list, with all that she's been through in that short time. Abby indirectly, not entirely intentionally, was very well shitty to Mel, and single-handedly ruined that relationship, and hardly knew it until it was deteriorating/over.
@@charlieberry7562 Your points about Mel endangering her child are valid, I personally disagree with her those choices, though I think you might be overstating the point a bit about what that child might have thought about her in the future. Also, while I agree that she was a part of what happened to Joel and even supported it, Joel was not an "innocent man".
@@PhantomThief7 It's not that water stops existing -- though to be fair it's not free flowing and filtered like before -- but the HEAT and the lack of soap or deodorant is more the thing. I don't think that's a priority if there's any left that hasn't been horded.
@SirJonHarringtonBlumpkinThe8th Yeah, I highly doubt Owen got up early, washed the blankets etc. before Mel got there. While *hung over* no less! Also, Mel is a BAD ASS! She basically the same journey as Abby to get to the aquarium. While pregnant!
Mel is sooo interesting to me. She trained under Jerry and learned a lot from his downfall I think. It really stood out to me how she immediately helped Lev and Yara, despite them being seraphites. I really like Mel. I think she’s justified in her hatred of Abby and is the only one who actually pushes Abby to think about her actions.
The fact that TLOU2 is still being talked about today speaks volumes of the rich content of the game, especially the characters. It's not always the case when you go to a deep analysis of a side character and have much to uncover. Good job!
I would like to see an in-depth analysis video on Abby and Issac's relationship. I genuinely believe that Issac took advantage of her built up anger to make her one of his best soldiers. Or just an analysis on their relationship itself because he was a "father figure" to her.
I also think thats why isaac lets her go to jackson with the salt lake crew in the first place his thinking is if i help her achieve her goal of justice knowing they're kinda disillusioned from what happened... that may help me achieve my goal of making them stronger top scar killers... The truth is, we just didnt get enough of isaac ive always been 50/50 on it, it emphasises that anyone can die at anytime no matter how big you are which i like but we also miss digging into his backstory more. I hope the tv series could highlight him more
yeah that's exactly why I think he let them go. he figured if Abby finally got her revenge she would be free from distractions and could put all her focus/energy on ending the scars.
@SirJonHarringtonBlumpkinThe8th 😒 anyone is an npc the game stresses that more than anything anyone could die why does he need to get a death of huge spectacle? Does that happen in real life?, no, people die thats it... Ive voiced my issue with it, but i also explained why i like it...plus yara got shot with one bullet then has enough strength to shoot him then gets riddled with bullets not the other way round. i see nothing wrong with that. It happens in movies and games all the time but here suddenly its a problem
Fun scenes to try from the Ellie side: Jesse and Ellie's conversation about Dina being pregnant. Lots of nuance there. Ellie is very uncomfortable. Also the very tense conversation between Ellie and Dina when Dina tells Ellie that she things she's pregnant and Ellie effectively calls her a burden. I remember the being painful when I first played it. The final conversation between Joel and Ellie too. A lot to unpack considering the history and context, or them both processing the lie Joel was keeping for 5 years.
Mel should’ve woke up and realized that Owen didn’t love her and that he really wanted Abby. Her resenting Abby because she’s her mentors ACTUAL daughter and also her baby daddy is in love with is understandable. She’s only seen Abby murder a guy with a golf club and sleep with her man. She’s not gonna forgive her just because she decides to save Yara and Lev. Mel ends up dying and saved Yara. Mel isn’t a bad person. She fell for a dude who was on the rebound. She’s foolish not evil.
@@killmonger5097 uhhhm no, she can be surprised when he was acting like he wanted to be with mel and abby was acting fine with it, just because they are ex's doesnt make them hooking up okay tf
@@goldi9032 right she shouldn’t I put that more on Dina tho she could’ve choose any girl instead of the one her and her boyfriend hangs out with everyday
The hate for Mel seems so random because there’s no single awful thing that she did. “She went out on patrol while pregnant,” no, Isaac called her up to the FOB to give medical aid to injured soldiers, she was literally moving from one safe location the next and the Scar ambush wasn’t her fault. “She cusses out Abby,” because Abby has been a bad friend to her and also slept with her baby daddy.
While I agree she didn’t do anything “awful”, and that Abby deserved how Mel treated her, I also don’t like that she went out on a mission pregnant. It’s just a stupid move tbh and one someone who is a medical professional (as professional as one can be in the world of tlou) should never have done. It broke my immersion on my first run and to this day i don’t like it.
@@jh22966 Actually I misspoke, she wasn’t going out on patrol, she was called up to the FOB by Isaac along with everyone else at the stadium. She was just following orders.
It's important that Mel was one of the crew who wanted to kill Ellie and Tommy to "tie up loose ends" and it was Abby who refused it (and Owen agreed) because they weren't guilty of what Joel did. Mel, like everyone, hasn't been ethically perfect, and if she has been troubled by participating in Jackson she may be shifting her self blame onto Abby.
The conversations during the trip to the FOB where Abby and Mel's former friendship starts to peek back through are so sad. There's something so... innocent about those conversations; a reminder that when they were friends, they were children. Just one more thing that was lost along the way. I doubt either one of them have ever really put the time into unpacking all the layers to why they feel the way they do about each other (beyond the obvious ones), and it's so poignant seeing that there's at least some part of both of them that wishes it didn't turn out this way.
Going back to Ellie's side and seeing how in day 3 Owen was ready to abandon Mel and her baby to go after Abby is heartbreaking. Owen was being especially cruel to someone like her
Not sure if someone already mentioned this, but I think Neil or Haley said in the directors commentary that they considered portraying Mel as closer to Jerry than abby ever was. They said they ended up taking it out bc they thought it was just too much. I’m sure those deleted lines were from that specific route they thought about taking.
my god, the joining of their lines at the end "i haven't always done the right thing-"/"but i'd like to try" was such a gut punch! loved the video, can't wait to binge watch the rest of your channel :D
What frustrates me about the discourse around Mel is people saying that she's pregnant so it's unrealistic she'd be on duty. Not only does the game lampshade that but medics are valuable resources in the world of Last of Us. It makes sense she'd be on duty regardless of her state.
I was going to address this but didn't feel like dealing with the discourse, but you're right. she's a medic and she was needed on-site. they were travelling from their Homebase to the fob through what was supposed to be wlf-controlled territory; obviously the ambush wasn't planned. and also, ofc, it's entirely her choice what she does with her body. as a medic she is more than capable of determining what she can take on.
Yes. This is the most infuriating part of that whole scene. It’s the most basic takeaway people come to, and they only come to it by equating their own expectations around pregnancy without considering the environment they are in. She’s not fighting. She’s going to the FOB where they will need all the medics possible. That’s made even clearer when you see all the WLF body bags, and even more so when Isaac’s plan is revealed. Traveling to the FOB isn’t supposed to be overtly dangerous either. Arguably, Mel is likely the best doctor they have at the base. She studied under someone extremely talented. There’s no doubt she’d be needed in that circumstance.
I was part of the crowd that was mad that Mel(a pregnant woman) was let out on the field, regardless of her wanting to go out or not. I still sort of am, however this is literally the best argument for why she's allowed out. Medics are rarer in their world, so preggo or not she's needed.
@@theblackcatgirl7013i haven’t watched the video yet so I dunno if she touches on this or not, but you also gotta keep in mind that after they returned from Jackson Owen had been dodging Mel (and the rest of the group tbh). Mel says they were given a new place to stay inside the Seahawks Stadium, a place that’s big enough to support their new family, but Owen hadn’t even been by to see it yet. Mel has nothing and is alone, and being pregnant brings a ton of extra stress and emotions/ emotional swings, so Mel decided to get back to work, do what she does best, help others (being a medic). Keeps her busy and is also being useful to others
The only part about Mel’s character that has ever truly annoyed me is how much she puts on Abby regarding going after Joel, when she chose to go and then was completely down with killing Ellie and Tommy to close the “loose ends.” Granted, I COMPLETELY understand the contradictory nature of people, as well as the regret that comes with the actions they took, so I never thought it didn’t make sense for her character to act the way she did. It was just mildly annoying to me on a visceral level, because I put myself in Abby’s shoes and I can imagine she’s like “yo, you chose to go get over yourself”, even if that wouldn’t really resolve anything. If anything, Mel is even more tragic of a character because she was always going to be second to Abby in Owen’s heart and mind.
Mel is to the last of us, what Karen is to the office, a good character who literally did nothing wrong while getting screwed over in the process and for some reason everyone hates her because she thwarts the main relationship
Nah she does plenty wrong. Disloyal as fuck. After everything we see in the game, in her last moments she wants to abandon Abby/Yara/Lev and then tries to convince Owen to snitch to Ellie "she's probably dead anyways 🤓" also not mention she was 100% fine with killing Ellie and Tommy in Jackson
@whatisreddin7367 Did you really call Mel disloyal when Owen and Abby had sex behind her back? Mel was nowhere near disloyal. She was absolutely loyal to her partner, she did her job properly. If you think Mel was disloyal for wanting to tell Ellie where Abby is you're 100% wrong. If you hadn't missed it already, Mel was sick of Abby. Why on earth would Mel risk her life, her child's life, and Owen's life for Abby? That's unrealistic. Also, Mel never once said anything about abandoning Yara or Lev. Wanting to kill Ellie and Tommy was nothing more than self-preservation.
In the next Scene Owen says I don't think Mel has figured out about last night. Which sounds like Owen might have been behaving differently with Mel as a result.
@@NeilCosgrove that happens the day before the confrontation, not the next scene. the scene after this is the "allowed to be happy" scene where Owen gives no indication that he's aware anything is wrong between Mel and Abby.
Honestly you should just do all the scenes, I’m working my way through the ones you’ve done so far and your analysis is incredible. I’ve played through Part II roughly 12 times and you’re painting a whole new, more complex picture for me. Please keep it up. Love the idea of analyzing the story moment by moment as opposed to a single full story analysis. It’ll be way juicier bite by bite.
I've played this game so many times, and have watched many analysis videos online, so i'm always surprised when I learn something new. I never realised Abby had the thank you letter from Mel in her backpack. Such a great video. Looking forward to the next one.
@@tlou_explainedi actually do, considering Jesse is one of Ellie’s bffs. That’s how I think tho, I get that circumstances are messy specially in a world like tlou. And that’s why I love this game and It’s mirroring. I love Ellie, but she makes a lot of questionable actions in this part :’)
@@tlou_explained Different circumstances in my opinion. With Ellie and Dina it was just a kiss at first which then I think Ellie allowed to develop into something more once she got the all clear from Jesse (which could also be just him keeping the peace.....my man deserved better). With Abby, Owen and Mel it was obvious from the very start that Abby and Owen had a past before they even stated it on the walk to the cliff to view Jackson. From the get go Owen and Mel don't click, there are disagreements he doesn't view the family unit back at the stadium cause he's taking on extra assignments. All signs point to him avoiding her whereas Ellie and Dina do click, they work well together and the only tension they have is when Dina says shes pregnant. So in my opinion Mel got with her friends ex boyfriend knowing that Owen wasn't over Abby at all. Ellie got with Dina after pushing her feelings down but then showed them when Jesse said it was cool. Either way I think you should never date your friends ex but I also think communication is a must have in these situations. I don't hate Mel but I hate her choices and her attitude. She blames Abby for actions that Owen also voluntarily took part in but at the same time in her eyes she probably saw it as Abby leading Owen on with a caring front regarding Yara and Lev. In all honesty the second game doesn't deserve the hate it gets because the whole point of it was to make you question the choices people make and what you view as the wrong choice on one side is the right choice on the other
@@alicedickinson5356 it's just interesting that you make a lot of excuses and interpretations for the Ellie/Dina/Jesse scenario, and then make a lot of assumptions about the Owen/Mel/Abby situation when we don't know how Mel and Owen ended up dating or what the circumstances were. it's also interesting that you're blaming Mel for a lot of this when Owen is the one trying to play two girls. you're right that the game is about both sides, it's just common to see people put down the characters on Abby's side without giving them the same grace they give to those on Ellie's side, and I find that contradicts the point of the story. just my opinion.
@@alicedickinson5356 I don’t think the circumstances are that different. Dating your friends ex is dating your friends ex and I wish Jesse stuck around long enough to see if it would develop into a problem, especially after the baby was actually born.
These analysis are absolutely needed, I love when someone can bring to light subtext and make it easy and digestible for all audiences, me included. Didn’t like Mel at all, but now I could see some details I previously didn’t catch quite so well so, thank you 🌟
35:31 omg for the last two analysis videos you sneak in an absolutely amazing edit and it just encapsulates how beautiful this story is Great fuckinh job! You’re killing it!!
Abby saving those kids will always be something that came out of the left field for me. It's not only uncharacteristic, but it catches you off guard and makes you wonder why she pursues that singular good thing all of a sudden. So, not far off to think that's exactly how Mel felt.
You know after watching all of these analysis videos on the games story. It’s actually not even as bad of a story as I originally thought it was when I first bought it on release. I take this as a lesson to just experience games with my own viewpoint instead of drowning my mind with other people’s opinions.
Yeah i absolutely love tlou2 and when i saw people hating on it i didnt get it. I understand and feel for abby. Never once did i want abby to die. She was selfish but so was joel, ellie, tommy, marlene too. The hate comes from joel dying pathetically like a dog. Joel killed loads of people like dogs marlene is a huge example. Her death was so pathetic, bleeding out begging to live. I love joel but I think joel had it coming after killing all those people. Rdr2 does this point nicely "you cant do bad things and live a good life" rip joel
For me it was pretty easy to actually sympathize with Mel.. She's not only pregnant with Owen's baby, a dude who keeps dropping everything to be with Abby (who he is clearly still in love with) but she's pregnant during an apocalyptic time where danger lurks around every corner; and Mel is having to face a harrowing journey of trying to raise a kid in such a world. And Owen is just not stepping up to the plate when it comes to preparing for a baby in an apocalyptic world. The only person who is prioritizing the safety of an innocent's life has been Mel. EDIT: I also wanted to add that I really don't think that Mel is looking to be with Owen per say, rather she is looking to Owen to provide for their child.
That Line "Hey Your my People". Such a simple statement yet holds weight into it. Showing that everything that has happened, none of it matters, what matters is that you are important to me. The way Abby said it, with hope, assurance, and deep concern, shows how much she truly cares for Lev. And that touched me it warms my heart. Showing compassion to people you want to protect, who you knew only for a little time. This line reminded me so much of My Hero Academia S4 Ep 13 where the Mc is trying his best to save the girl so bad he is risking everthing to save her. And from a person who took her away and experimented on. And he only knew her because he was just passing by and she bump into him while she escapes from her torturer. And I felt that care through Abby's words
Thank you so much for these analysis of female frienship. I love this game to the core and i do burst out in tears everytime i see how vulnerable and hurt these characters are. But especially the different female relationships that are depicted in the last of us part two were the once who touched me the most (Dina/Elli, Elli/Abbey, Abbey/Mel). Shared trauma that may lead to deep connection or pure hate and discust.
Your essays are super-smart. I really enjoy how inexorably human these characters are, nuanced and riddled with relatable contradictions. Many of the reactors, content creators, streamers, even some essayists--even honest ones--don't pay attention to the things you do. (Games are monumental efforts, of course: I won't fault somebody for paying attention to different aspects of the enterprise.) But your essays are refreshingly straightforward, even if incisive. Also, kudos for the "The Last Five Years" reference! Never thought I'd see that in a TLOU2 video. 😅
What's always been interesting to me is Mel's feelings towards Abby were mine exactly when I first played the game. I also initially felt that Abby's sudden change in attitude towards Seraphites was performative and aimed at winning Owen back (rather than being part of a search for inner peace and self-acceptance). And it was pretty clear based on prior gameplay that Abby's revenge on Joel would result in a disproportionate punitive expedition via Ellie and Tommy.
I'm loving these analysis videos! People aren't talking enough in depth about just how carefully layered these scenes are, and these videos are really well made and explain everything really well. I'm definitely subscribing!
New subscriber with a humble request: cover the scene on the farm where Tommy (seemingly out-of-character) guilt trips Ellie for refusing to chase down Abby based on his lead. I agree that what Tommy did was ultimately wrong, but few people want to focus on how Tommy must have perceived Ellie’s behavior, given everything he lost while trying to satisfy *her* lust for revenge.
@SirJonHarringtonBlumpkinThe8th This is just the point I’m trying to make - if *all* you’re paying attention to is that Tommy’s behavior in this scene seems inconsistent with his previous characterization, then you may be tempted to use words like “lazy” to describe his characterization here. Have you thought about the possibility that, perhaps, *you* are the lazy one for failing to appropriately empathize with Tommy (simply because his behavior seems “out of character”)? This possibility seems far more likely to me than Naughty Dog simply phoning this scene in, as you’ve suggested.
did you just forget that in between those two conversations Abby killed Jesse right in front of him, shot him in the side of the head, and very nearly killed Ellie and Dina too?
@SirJonHarringtonBlumpkinThe8th firm and unwavering? did you play the first game? he switched loyalties multiple times. changed his mind multiple times. them deciding to go back to Jackson was because they'd killed 7/8 of the Salt Lake Crew and Dina was pregnant and sick. and yes, obviously a big part of it is being disabled by Abby and Lev. he can barely walk and he can't shoot anymore. he and Maria also split up so no, he doesn't still have his life. he has lost everything, including his only blood relative. the only thing he has left is the thought of getting revenge because like Ellie, he thinks it will help bring him some peace/closure. but he can't do it himself because of what she did to him. my next video is gonna be about Tommy because he gets way too much hate from people who don't understand him.
@@tlou_explainedCall me crazy, but I think that a lot of folks make the mistake of thinking they have Tommy’s motivations 100% figured by the time he sets out to kill Abby and the WLF. It seems to me that this is something he is doing, not because he shares Ellie’s zeal for revenge per se, but because he wants to honor his brother’s memory and (hopefully) protect Ellie by saving her the trouble. This seems clear from the letter Maria reads to Ellie and Dina. We also know from the later scene that he and Maria have hit the pause button on their relationship. This doesn’t seem worth mentioning unless the writers want us to know that the fallout between them had something to do with Seattle. If you ask me, Tommy has a lot to be resentful about. It doesn’t make his behavior at the end of the game righteous, but it *is* understandable.
@@fox_e_crow3276 yes I think you're totally right about his motives for going to Seattle. along with seeking justice for his big brother, he did it to protect Ellie. at that point Ellie doesn't know that Tommy knows what Joel did to save her. if Ellie dies on this mission to avenge Joel it would render Joel's whole sacrifice pointless.
It’s so wild to me how anyone can play this game, claim to understand it, and still walk away from it hating ANY of the major characters. None of them are bad or deserving of any hate. Except Seth cause fuck that guy.
And Isaac, of course. Even the notes that you find throughout Seattle as Ellie corroborate that he was always an asshole who turned a legitimate resistance into his own personal dictatorship.
@@webhead215I wish they'd kept the flashback showing Abby going to the wolves. they could have fleshed out the relationship between her and Isaac more imo
I actually like Seth in TLOU2. Not only was he apart of making the bigot sandwich meme, but his apology to Ellie seemed genuine even though Ellie in the beginning of the story doesn't want to forgive anyone like him at all. Plus considering that he's old, there's a chance he isn't caught up in the modern times and him not knowing much about how ruthless Ellie can be also proves that he's out of the loop of what's going on outside of the safe zone of his community
@@j-the-jolteon8351ehhh I wouldn't say his "apology" is genuine. he doesn't *actually* apologize, and uses his drinking as an excuse. plus, maria clearly made him do it, he wasn't doing it of his own volition. however, it was probably the best he could offer under the circumstances. when you're wandering in the wilderness as Abby at the beginning you can actually find a note from Seth where he says his wife and eldest son were killed. so he's really just a sad old man who was alive pre-outbreak and just held on to his old fashioned views I guess.
@@tlou_explained Oh really? I didn't know about that note, that's pretty interesting. Just shows that every single character in The Last Of Us is human in their own way. Thank you for telling me
The thing I dont like about Mel is that she willingly got into a relationship with someone who wasnt over their ex and then got pregnant. Plus she basically got with her friends ex boyfriend which is all types of fucked up. (They might not be besties but they clearly knew each other since they were young seeing as Jerry was training Mel). Mel also did put herself into harms way multiple times which was stupid as well. Yes Abby and Owen shouldn't have slept with each other but at the end of the day I feel like Abby thought Owen was the last of her humanity. But I think her going back for Lev and Yara made her realize that Owen isn't what gives her humanity they are, especially Lev. So I think thats why she tells Owen to get his priorities straight cause she realizes that their time is over and she needed to let go of the past and find a new reason to live
do you feel the same way about Ellie sleeping with her friend's ex a week after they broke up? do you feel the same way about Dina accompanying Ellie on her revenge quest, putting herself in harm's way even though she was pregnant? I suggest you watch my other video "what happened to us".
@@tlou_explained I've replied in another comment about how I feel about Ellie and Dina but to summarize it Jesse in a sense allowed it to happen (we obviously don't know if he did this to keep his friends happy or because he knew him and Dina just wouldn't ever work.....he deserved so much better). We don't know for sure if Mel and Abby spoke about it before Mel got with Owen but in my opinion, which I don't have proof other than what I saw whilst playing the game, they didn't talk about it. Abby seems like the person to bottle up most of her feelings so she wouldn't confront Mel and Owen about their relationship especially with the way things ended between Abby and Owen. Owen from the get go was clearly not over Abby but Mel still went for it but at the end of the day I think you just shouldn't date your friends ex.
it’s kinda unfair to not like mel over this when we dont know the situation’s specifics like we do with jesse, dina and ellie. for all we know, owen was the one perusing mel and abby allowed it but we unfortunately don’t know. abby and mel really only seem like acquaintances though, at least to me, sincd they never really talk about personal memories and mel doesn’t even show up in flashbacks like owen and manny do. not meaning to say you’re wrong or bad for your opinion, this is just what im thinking on it.
@humansadness3749 That is a good point, we do know that Mel was working under Abby's dad so surely she should know some things. Plus even if Owen was pursuing Mel surely you would look at the whole picture and see that Abby and Owen are still close and that he has some sort of love for her still. At the end of day Mel is a victim in this situation I just don't like her or her attitude 🤣
thanks for this. seeing mel get the representation her character deserves is such a breath of fresh air. i was frustrated at first with her behaviour towards abby, but as youve so thoroughly explained, she really does have every reason to be upset with her. definitely gonna check out the rest of your stuff after this.
It’s been a many long years of debating this game with people who hated it. “Perspective matters.” I have no idea how many times I’ve said these exact words. You earned a subscriber for this alone. Great video, there’s a lot to enjoy about the way you deliver your writing. I look forward to more.
Do you remember apartment where 4 enemies are hiding as Ellie looks around and jump her when she activates the work bench? You find a note titled "WLF deserters letter", and they're heavily implied to be former fireflies (the note uses the phrase "Remember who we were! The WLF took us in, but they are not our people.") who are heading "south" (Santa Barbara) to see if "the rumors are true". And who this letter is addressed to? A person named Melissa. Obviously it's not a 100% confirmation, Melissa is a common name, but I feel the implications get us 90% of the way there. To me it essentially confirms that Mel was absolutely planning on abandoning leaving, regardless of her ultimatum to Owen, and has been planning to do so for some time. Whats odd is that Owen obviously had no idea about these people when they have basically the same plan as him, except without the boat, which means seemingly that Mel has hiding this information from Owen. So I think these people were her "Plan B" in case Owen doesn't check out. The main thing that that changes, for me atleast, is that this implies to me that this conversation was not spontaneous. It was something Mel had been working up to. She was planning on giving Owen this ultimatum and she's having this conversation with Abby now because she believes that this is going to be the last conversation she has with Abby (which she is correct about, but not for the reasons she thinks). I don't hate Mel, and I respect that she has reason to be angry with Abby, but I also think she's something of a coward if this is how she purposely tried to have the final word on Abby. I'm curious how this changes your read on her, if at all.
oo I knew about the deserters but hadn't made the connection that Melissa could be Mel. that's definitely an interesting angle to consider. for sure this conversation is an ultimatum either way. I've also seen theories that the Firefly Melanie whom Riley refers to in Left Behind could be Mel haha you can hear some WLF talking about the deserters as Ellie on day 1. by that point Owen had already gone AWOL so it's possible he just wasn't aware of what had happened.
The way you edited together Abby saying "I haven't always done the right thing" and Ellie saying "but I would like to try" makes me tear up everytime I watch it. I always seem to forget it's coming and then it happens and BAM, I'm crying. Amazing video, always amazing to rewatch.
I don't dislike Mel for her scene where she calls Abby out, she's right for doing it, but Mel herself is a huge hypocrite. When you play as Abby with Mel and Manny, Mel first laments about how they killed the Scar kids, making her sympathetic. Then, a few moments later, alone with Abby, they talk about Jackson, and how it still affects Mel. Abby asks Mel if she thinks they should'nt have killed Joel, and Mel says: " No, I think he deserved worse. I just wish I didn't have to see it." Like, she's literally okay with torture as long as brute Abby carries it out and holy Mel doesn't have to watch, but she would still very much like Joel to die a painful death. She just doesn't want to feel uncomfy and bad by actually having to witness the violence she otherwise feels just. Up until that point, Mel very much seems like the softest, kindest, warmest member of the group. Then we get this scene, and then, a little later, we get Abby's memories of the moment when Ellie is held down and she is deliberating over just killing Joel, and it's the first time we hear what everyone is saying in that moment, because from Ellies perspective, the sound was blurred out by her focusing on Joel. What we hear is Owen saying to leave Ellie and Tommy alive; they got what they came for. What does Mel say? " They're loose ends. We should kill them." And it's not like Mel was dragged a long out of peer pressure, when we see the flashback of Abby visiting Owen to tell him that she's found Joel, she tells him " I already told Mel- she's on board. Everyone is." Mel certainly didn't go for Abby, and she didn't go for Owen- Owen didn't even know yet. Yeah, Abby and Owen are also pieces of shit in this dynamic, Owen has no backbone and a wet sock of a character, and it sucks that they cheated. I don't begrudge Mel calling Abby out on that. (Although I felt from the way it was portrayed, that Mel was subconciously aware that things were never really emotionally over between them and was maybe expecting something like this, especially after Abby got her revenge and the obstacle was seemingly removed) But Mel thinks she's a good, sweet person, when in actuality she can be just as cold blooded and ruthless, she just deludes herself into thinking she isn't by having others do the dirty work.
Thank you! And I will say Mel is at a disadvantage because everyone else in this story accepts that they are a monster or did bad things except for Mel. Like how far are we into the apocalypse?? Everyone is bad? Why is she clutching her pearls now?
Abby's arc to becoming a good person by helping Yara and Lev reminds me so much about Arthur Morgan in RDR2. He believes he cannot become a good person, no matter how many people he helps near the end. Limes like "I said don't thank me" and "I'm afraid" break my heart every time
I love this! My feelings about Mel’s character have always been something I couldn’t quite put into words. I was sympathetic for her and I realized there was something else underneath that was just waiting to break their relationship in two. This is an amazing in depth analysis about them.
Owen and Mel were always destined to fail because Owen couldn’t let go of his feelings for Abby. Abby feels guilty for feeling love and joy when her dad’s death was so brutal and an injustice was made. She can’t let herself fall in love with Owen because of her guilt. Though Owen tries to move on he’s still holding onto hope Abby will change her mind and he will leave Mel in a heartbeat regardless of her being pregnant or not. It was never in the cards for Mel to be with Owen and ultimately he is responsible for her death when he tried to protect Abby from Ellie and attacking her while she had a gun pointed at Mel
Mel is justified in her behavior in quite a few respects, but i did feel a that her projection of her own guilt is mixed in there for sure. She blames Abby, but she admitted she herself wanted that revenge, hell she wanted worse. But that feeling was proven to be exactly what it always is: the flames of wrath are caustic. And those feelings became a reality. Mel is fundamentally unable to come to terms with her own feelings of hate and resentment and thus needed to lash out at a target she saw as responsible. Now that Joel was dead, Abby takes that new mantle.
as always you absolutely devour with your analysis’, it truly feels like i’m being fed a full spread when watching your videos. i also know EXACTLY what you were doing by adding in that other POV of abby telling mel to relax and i see you and i thank you for it ✨
I think that’s because Mel herself and the game underestimates this. She willingly goes on missions with Abby shooting up scars, even when Abby and friends are like “hey maybe you should stay at base” Mel insist on going on dangerous mission for no real reason despite being pregnent, and comes out fine. It makes no real sense other than “yeah sure I’ll tag along, gotta pull my weight here”. Her and Dina are both guilty of doing this, with Dina at least being shown to be vulnerable. Mel doesn’t.
That part where Abby yells at Lev after Yara’s death really broke my heart. It took me a minute to realize that those children did to Abby what Abby could not do to Joel. Forgive and have mercy on the enemy. I think them sparing Abby’s life is when she decided to choose them. Hence ‘you are my people.’ can’t imagine how heartbreaking it is to watch those you love die. Even more heartbreaking to know you’re the catalyst to that cause.
next video couldn’t come out sooner, i have never seen such beautiful deduction of a scene ever before, this and the other two have actual literature values to them that makes me crave more
I’ve been binge watching these analysis to pass the time, and I can confidently say that you made me love this game even more. I have no idea why so many people hated it at the start, its truly brilliant what naughty dog did with this game, if someone is able to make a well thought analysis scene by scene in game, the developers are doing something right you earned a subscriber thank you 🙏
You’re videos have made me like this game more. I was pretty salty about it like most popular but understanding the characters more helps put the story into perspective
2:30 i agree with you because why would Marlene go make that recording after the doctor is killed......... She didnt have time to do that because she was in the garage of the hospital. Also being killed by Joel.
Tlou is probably my favorite game of all time, watching your videos made me realize so much things about the game, it makes me like the game even more! Please don’t stop posting, i would love to see your perspective about the Ellie’s point of view of the story and the hole thing with joel and Dina, anyways love your content. I’ll be waiting for more.
To be fair I think Abby is the actual most overhated character in this game. I used to hate her with a passion and willfully ignored the clear parallels between her and Joel but it was actually this channel that changed my pov. Although I’m still unhappy with the direction much of the story took.
I'm loving these analysis videos, they bring us a nice place to discuss the subtle themes of this game, and not just polemic stuff that's been around for a while
It makes no sense to hate Mel. I don't hate Mel. I felt sorry for her. She got into a relationship with Owen who didn't love her the way he loved Abby, then he didn't break things off and she got pregnant. Unfortunately sealed her fate when she traveled to see Joel die and you can see she regretted participating in such a brutal murder. And she was right to want to kill Ellie and Tommy. It made me sad Owen had an affair with Abby and I definitely think she knew something happened between them. I liked how she called Abby out on her BS and you can see Abby agrees and didnt argue with Mel. I wonder if she told Ellie "wait I'm pregnant" and showed Ellie, if Ellie would have definitely spared her and let her walk away considering Dina is pregnant. Mel is such an underrated tragic character I love her PoV and it sucks her unborn baby was caught in the middle.
@@thepeskyone That actually got me wondering, I've never once heard of anyone straight-up hate Mel for.......basically being incredibly based outside of the glaring problems, especially if they hate Abby
It must have been a fight or flight moment Ellie was going to let the two live and Owen fucked it up and a bit of Mel too by trying to rush Ellie after she shot Owen plus that jacket of hers was hiding her bump had it been visible Ellie would have probably just knocked her out
I am only a few minutes into this video, but man i can't tell you how FURIOUS I am every time you point something out that I never noticed despite playing this game multiple times. In this case recording = maybe Mel? Keep up the amazing work!
I just wanna say i've been appreciating your videos so incredibly much- I am an avid youtube consumer...especially when it comes to media such as video games and film,,,so analysis videos/video essays are my absolute favorite things to watch. but what i've noticed recently is how nearly every. single. video. is made by a man. and lately i have not been able to *not* notice it, and it really turned me off from those types of videos even though they are my favorite. hearing a woman do a deep dive in a game like this truly made my day, especially when you are able to relate personal experiences (female friendships/communication between abby and mel) to what you are discussing. so i just wanted to say thank you so much for that, and its so nice to hear women voicing their opinions so well in a male-dominated video genre!!!! i loved your analysis!!
I actually didn't care much for Mel during the game. I sided with Abby in most of their dialog despite how cold Abby could come off. But after watching this, Im starting to understand how nuanced all of these characters are, and I definitely have a lot more compassion for Mel.
The issue I have is that there is still nothing in Abby’s past that would even hint that she would create a ploy to use Yara and Lev. Coming to the conclusion that’s what she is doing goes against everything she is. She’s direct, blunt as a hammer, to get what she wants. Abby isn’t a scheming, deceptive person. Besides, if she wanted Owen, all she’d have to say is “I want you/I love you” and he’d be hers. Mel knows this. Mel knew he was hung up on her, which is why she’s not okay with her being around. Why she completely isolated herself from Abby even before the incident. She jumped to a completely unreasonable conclusion because she expects the worst from Abby. Ignores Abby’s actions and character almost wanting it to be true that Abby can’t become a better person. She’s an absolutely horrible friend. All of her dislike travels back to jealousy around two people that were Abby’s people. One of which died, and the other she actively wanted to isolate away from Abby. And whether or not she feared retribution or not, being willing to kill an innocent girl that was just begging for her “father’s” life after their experience in SLC shows she’s no better than any of the rest of them. She just likes to think she is. Even being willing to give Abby up without hesitation. She wanted Abby gone because she sees her as the source of all her problems, especially with Owen. And it’s also implied Manny and Abby have tortured before, and are very willing participants once they go to see Isaac. Manny even implies it when he says “not like us”. So not knowing she’d go to that length with Joel rings quite hollow to me. Still, great analysis and insight into her character and the dynamics between the two. I just don’t see Mel as a good person. Abby knows she’s not, Mel won’t admit that she isn’t.
Even discounting that Mel doesn't know the sincerity of Abby's intentions, there's a painful -- yet important -- lesson in this scene: The people you've hurt are under no obligation to forgive you. Forgiveness is given, not earned. You should put in the work and make amends because it's the right thing to do, but at the end of the day, if a person decides they can't or won't forgive you for past harms? You've just got to accept that as a consequence of your actions and keep trying to do better. Now, maybe Mel would've been more forgiving if she'd seen Abby as we did, but even if she wasn't? I couldn't hold that against her.
And to add to that, I think that was really the whole idea behind putting Abby’s perspective in the game. If we had gone the entire game as Ellie, we would have had no remorse for Abby. The writers wanted to give us a choice. To see her side and to decide on our own terms whether we forgive her or not.
The amount of parallels that can be drawn in this story. This is very well put and it immediately made me think of:
"I don't think I can ever forgive you for that. But I would like to try."
Joel struggled with the very same thing described here (not necessarily with his decision but Ellie's reaction to it and the way he handled it with her). Would Ellie have been more forgiving if she saw Joel as we did, as you suggest for Mel? We wouldn't know, but at the ending conversation, their last, just as you said, he was ready to accept the consequences, Ellie not forgiving him, and just trying to be better, and also feeling that he did the right thing even if it meant losing her.
The basis of this story is the fact that people are people on both sides. If they met in different circumstances, they would not be inherently hostile to each other. There are so many parallels, similarities between Ellie and Abby, their respective crews, the WLF and the Seraphites, and so on.
😊😂😂😅😊е😅е😊😂
Qq
Great comment
It’s so sad that Mel still dies for Abby’s sins in the end, you know she’s in the afterlife FUMING
she's gonna haunt Abby forever that's for sure😅
LMAOO bro Mel really ain’t deserve this shit fr
Technically, it was Owen's fault that he and Mel died... they only spared Ellie and Tommy because Owen insisted on it. Even Mel was on board with killing them just so there wouldn't be any witnesses left.
They're Mels sins too lmao
and then abby still writes to owen (you can see the note in the boat). if I was mel, I’d be so upset. definitely gonna haunt abby in the afterlife. I love both abby & mel SO much, but abby did mel dirty. SO dirty.
I Hate how many people hate Mel. She's perfectly justified in her hate for Abby, even if Abby is becoming a better person and gets sympathy from the player. She was clearly affected by the events in Jackson and her boyfriend (WHO SHE"S PREGNENT BY) Is constantly worried about Abby and ignores her, not even bringing up the boat scene where he CHEATED on her with Abby.
I never "hated" Mel, just felt like she was a wet blanket.
I'm coming around though.
Didn’t Nora say Isaac was extremely harsh on her when abby went awol. Possibly torture?
@@Banskibri I think Isaac (and other WLF) only torture those they've dehumanized. Like the Seraphites.
Right! Abby is the catalyst and the trigger for one of the most traumatic events of Mel’s life.
@@superphantom100 Owen's pretty good.
Not only Mel and Owen, but Jordan (in a missable interaction) makes a comment about not talking to each other (and by extension, Leah etc.) since returning to Seattle.
Pretty much everyone (except Manny) distanced themselves from Abby after Jackson.
Manny is to the Salt Lake Crew what Jesse is to Team Jackson.
YES, Manny is such a good friend to his people man. he's the mom of the group for sure, just wants harmony and for everyone to be okay. another totally over-hated character
wait- I'm curious. What did Jordan say exactly? The only lines of Jordan's I remember is on the first day, where he was asking if Abby is coming with them to the Serevena.
@@hersn1per maybe they mean "nice to see you too, Abby"? but yeah there's really nothing else that he says that is along that vein haha
@@tlou_explained 👆
Interesting you say that!! Manny is to Salt Lake what Jesse is to Jackson because they also both got killed in very similar ways, and both standing right next to the person whose revenge quest was the thing that got them both killed. 😬
Mel deserved so much better, she worried about Abby she supported her, probably killed for her, and what did she got? The most traumatic event of her life, being cheated on and a stab in the throat.
fr i dont see how more people cant see that. Abby really was such a piece of shit for that.
@@charlieberry7562 There is so much wrong with your statement idk where to begin...
- Joel was NOT an innocent man. And this is coming from someone who has him tattooed on their body. I loved joel so much but he killed abbys dad. As much as i hate her, she had every right to feel vengeful. Imagine someone killed your mom or dad and got away with it. No matter why the reason they did it... is that an innocent person to you...??
- I agree that mel did put herself in harms way but in a world where any day could be your last, mel was simply just doing what she thought was right to survive. She was abbys dad's top student in the medical field, she felt she had duties to fulfill, without her yara wouldve easily died. Do i agree with mels methods? No, if i was pregnant id be resting but I am me. Mel is Mel. You have every right to dislike her character but we cant judge her on her way of survival when we havent experienced the world that she grew up in...
She could have walked away from the torture at any point, she was a coward
@@homelessalcoholic2716 walking away wouldve done NOTHING. Abby was after joel for 4 years, once she had him theres no stopping her. Id be frozen and scared too if i saw someone brutally murder another person right in front of me. By your logic everyone else in that group is also a coward.
@@homelessalcoholic2716she did go away when ellie is pinned down you can see mel and owen coming out of the garage they stayed there for the entire torture until ellie makea an entrance
Your point about Naughty Dog deleting Abby's lines about Mel/Owen starting to judge her because they were too on-the-nose shows that Naughty Dog was really trusting its audience to piece together the nuances of the characters on their own. I give them a lot of credit for challenging the player to think critically, even if it's uncomfortable from an emotional standpoint. I hope the backlash doesn't deter them or other studios from taking narrative risks and trusting the audience to challenge their own intuitions.
Another reason why the game was so controversial… For a good reason, I mean.
That's the issue with being subtle. If deeper meaning is hard to find, its like its not there at all for most. That goes double for if the deeper meaning is debatable.
I hope it does, then they can bring people in who know what they are doing
The director of these games is not one to bend a knee because people didn't like the story
@@freeziboi3249 I'm happy to hear it. I also think TLOU2's story is pretty bad, and if the director can't take criticism (real criticism, not insults) because he doesn't want to bend the knee, then he's not a good director.
Mel has every right to be angry. Imagine being in her position. She countlessly went out of her way to clean up the messes Abby made when blinded by revenge.
Well she slept with her friends ex first
@@themoviefan9990 almost 2 years after they broke up
@rumis.dollsss.15 so you've sleep with you your best friends exes when the 2 year mark hits?
@@themoviefan9990so it justifies cheating even when she was pregnant?
@Nnurttguba yes
I don’t understand hating Mel. She was mistreated by her supposed friend Abby, who keeps inserting herself into her life with Owen (the arrow shooting scene in the aquarium irks me because no, Abby, your name didn’t have to be there, Owen was right to be hesitant and you shouldn’t have insisted) and constantly neglected by her boyfriend Owen, who is irresponsible to begin with because I think he got with her to try to forget Abby, which is shitty and emotionally irresponsible. Don’t even get me started on Owen cheating and just not caring about his pregnant gf in general. She was done so dirty by everyone, especially Abby and Owen.
I agree with pretty much everything you said except the arrow shooting thing. While you could argue that Abby was pushy, the burden was on Owen to say "Hey, this is just a fun thing between Mel and me, sorry ". He could've kept her at a friendly distance but he didn't.
While Owen wasn't an irredeemable person, he really failed Mel in so many ways, specially in the end with Ellie's confrontation.
@@cloudtx oh yeah, I agree with that too. Abby shouldn’t have insisted and also, he should’ve stood his ground. But he didn’t care enough about Mel to actually try with her and really let go of Abby, it shows through in that lack of boundaries with Abby. Even if it’s a small thing like a shooting arrow game. I always felt so bad for Mel. Like, damn, it was unfair of them to treat her like that, it’s like she wasn’t even a person.
@@DiscoInfernoBaby I couldn't disagree with you more. She came across as pretty likable in the trip with Abby and Manny. Not to mention, this is a woman who was pregnant yet willing to go into the field. While you could argue she was being reckless, it shows that she cared enough about doing her duty as a member of the WLF and as a doctor that she was willing to risk it when she could've easily stayed behind.
Plus, when Abby brought Yara to her, she didn't hesitate in giving medical aid to what should've been a mortal enemy because it was the right thing to do. Mel was a really good person who didn't deserve what she got nor does she deserve the hate from the fandom.
I think Abby has some good quality to her despite what's she's done, which there is quite the list. I feel as though there are circumstances that don't justify, but explain certain actions. I.e., murdering Joel how she did, the amount of anger and rage to finally be met with the silver platter to satisfy it, is a hard thing to stifle. It doesn't justify it, but there isn't an absence in logic from Abby's perspective. This might also be supported by her decision not to kill Ellie and Tommy; she was over her indulgent rage, and might have felt guilty just as soon as it was finished. Abby seems more susceptible to impulse than anything, which just seems to be a quality of hers, which, objectively, needs work. This would also apply to her treatment of Mel, she might not have Mel at the top of her mental list, with all that she's been through in that short time. Abby indirectly, not entirely intentionally, was very well shitty to Mel, and single-handedly ruined that relationship, and hardly knew it until it was deteriorating/over.
@@charlieberry7562 Your points about Mel endangering her child are valid, I personally disagree with her those choices, though I think you might be overstating the point a bit about what that child might have thought about her in the future.
Also, while I agree that she was a part of what happened to Joel and even supported it, Joel was not an "innocent man".
Being pregnant, you just *know* Mel smelled the Abby/Owen funk on the boat the next morning!
TO BE FAIR I'm sure everyone fuckin reeks in that world lmao, poor Mel (or any pregnant lady) should be walking around pinching her nose
Why do ya'll think water stops existing???
@@PhantomThief7 huh?
@@PhantomThief7 It's not that water stops existing -- though to be fair it's not free flowing and filtered like before -- but the HEAT and the lack of soap or deodorant is more the thing. I don't think that's a priority if there's any left that hasn't been horded.
@SirJonHarringtonBlumpkinThe8th Yeah, I highly doubt Owen got up early, washed the blankets etc. before Mel got there. While *hung over* no less!
Also, Mel is a BAD ASS! She basically the same journey as Abby to get to the aquarium. While pregnant!
Mel is sooo interesting to me. She trained under Jerry and learned a lot from his downfall I think. It really stood out to me how she immediately helped Lev and Yara, despite them being seraphites. I really like Mel. I think she’s justified in her hatred of Abby and is the only one who actually pushes Abby to think about her actions.
The fact that TLOU2 is still being talked about today speaks volumes of the rich content of the game, especially the characters. It's not always the case when you go to a deep analysis of a side character and have much to uncover. Good job!
I would like to see an in-depth analysis video on Abby and Issac's relationship. I genuinely believe that Issac took advantage of her built up anger to make her one of his best soldiers. Or just an analysis on their relationship itself because he was a "father figure" to her.
I also think thats why isaac lets her go to jackson with the salt lake crew in the first place his thinking is if i help her achieve her goal of justice knowing they're kinda disillusioned from what happened... that may help me achieve my goal of making them stronger top scar killers...
The truth is, we just didnt get enough of isaac ive always been 50/50 on it, it emphasises that anyone can die at anytime no matter how big you are which i like but we also miss digging into his backstory more. I hope the tv series could highlight him more
@slickstar96 You're right about that. Isaac was an interesting character that we didn't get to see much to better understand him.
Agreed, iirc they cut a looot of scenes between Abby and Isaac so I feel like there could be a lot of missing context / subtext there
yeah that's exactly why I think he let them go. he figured if Abby finally got her revenge she would be free from distractions and could put all her focus/energy on ending the scars.
@SirJonHarringtonBlumpkinThe8th 😒 anyone is an npc the game stresses that more than anything anyone could die why does he need to get a death of huge spectacle? Does that happen in real life?, no, people die thats it...
Ive voiced my issue with it, but i also explained why i like it...plus yara got shot with one bullet then has enough strength to shoot him then gets riddled with bullets not the other way round. i see nothing wrong with that. It happens in movies and games all the time but here suddenly its a problem
Abby and Owen did Mel dirty. Owen didn’t want that girl, he wanted Abby and the whole squad knew it. Mel deserved better.
Fun scenes to try from the Ellie side:
Jesse and Ellie's conversation about Dina being pregnant. Lots of nuance there. Ellie is very uncomfortable.
Also the very tense conversation between Ellie and Dina when Dina tells Ellie that she things she's pregnant and Ellie effectively calls her a burden. I remember the being painful when I first played it.
The final conversation between Joel and Ellie too. A lot to unpack considering the history and context, or them both processing the lie Joel was keeping for 5 years.
@superphantom100 watch me :)
Yeah, I remember replaying the game a few months back, and when Ellie called Dina a burden you slowly see how absolutely pissed off that made her.
@@kylemajerczyk8160 I'd be pissed too. Dina suspected she was pregnant and kept it from Ellie.
Off topic but, hearing Ashley Birch's voice throughout the video is such a treat. She's so talented. I love her voice.
Mel should’ve woke up and realized that Owen didn’t love her and that he really wanted Abby. Her resenting Abby because she’s her mentors ACTUAL daughter and also her baby daddy is in love with is understandable. She’s only seen Abby murder a guy with a golf club and sleep with her man. She’s not gonna forgive her just because she decides to save Yara and Lev. Mel ends up dying and saved Yara. Mel isn’t a bad person. She fell for a dude who was on the rebound. She’s foolish not evil.
Owen was Abby’s man first don’t date your friends ex and get surprised they hook up again
@@killmonger5097 uhhhm no, she can be surprised when he was acting like he wanted to be with mel and abby was acting fine with it, just because they are ex's doesnt make them hooking up okay tf
@@amandacantcometothephone If you decide to date your friends ex you’re already playing with fire
@@killmonger5097 So Ellie shouldn't have been with Dina?
@@goldi9032 right she shouldn’t I put that more on Dina tho she could’ve choose any girl instead of the one her and her boyfriend hangs out with everyday
The hate for Mel seems so random because there’s no single awful thing that she did. “She went out on patrol while pregnant,” no, Isaac called her up to the FOB to give medical aid to injured soldiers, she was literally moving from one safe location the next and the Scar ambush wasn’t her fault. “She cusses out Abby,” because Abby has been a bad friend to her and also slept with her baby daddy.
While I agree she didn’t do anything “awful”, and that Abby deserved how Mel treated her, I also don’t like that she went out on a mission pregnant. It’s just a stupid move tbh and one someone who is a medical professional (as professional as one can be in the world of tlou) should never have done. It broke my immersion on my first run and to this day i don’t like it.
@@jh22966 Actually I misspoke, she wasn’t going out on patrol, she was called up to the FOB by Isaac along with everyone else at the stadium. She was just following orders.
Abby suggested she not go, and Mel makes the choice to do so of her own volition
It's important that Mel was one of the crew who wanted to kill Ellie and Tommy to "tie up loose ends" and it was Abby who refused it (and Owen agreed) because they weren't guilty of what Joel did. Mel, like everyone, hasn't been ethically perfect, and if she has been troubled by participating in Jackson she may be shifting her self blame onto Abby.
@@Harbinger57 Mel and Manny were right about “tying up loose ends,” Tommy and Ellie came after them and killed their entire crew because they didn’t.
The conversations during the trip to the FOB where Abby and Mel's former friendship starts to peek back through are so sad. There's something so... innocent about those conversations; a reminder that when they were friends, they were children. Just one more thing that was lost along the way. I doubt either one of them have ever really put the time into unpacking all the layers to why they feel the way they do about each other (beyond the obvious ones), and it's so poignant seeing that there's at least some part of both of them that wishes it didn't turn out this way.
2:10 i never once thought about whose voice that was on the recorder. Once you mentioned it being Mel, it makes so much sense. Great catch!
Going back to Ellie's side and seeing how in day 3 Owen was ready to abandon Mel and her baby to go after Abby is heartbreaking. Owen was being especially cruel to someone like her
I’m so so so excited to see you cover the last scene with Ellie and Joel 😭😭😭
that's definitely on my list!
@@superphantom100 lol
I don’t even think Mel hates Abby… she’s very frustrated and traumatized and Abby is the catalyst for it and the trigger all at the same time.
Good comment!
She hates her. She literally tells her she’s a pos (rightfully so) and says she always has been.
Not sure if someone already mentioned this, but I think Neil or Haley said in the directors commentary that they considered portraying Mel as closer to Jerry than abby ever was. They said they ended up taking it out bc they thought it was just too much. I’m sure those deleted lines were from that specific route they thought about taking.
That Last 5 Years reference was so unexpected... well done
When in the video was it?
Found it lol. It wasn’t subtle at all.
lmao I couldn't get that line out of my head after I wrote the bit about Abby doing what she always said she would do😅
my god, the joining of their lines at the end "i haven't always done the right thing-"/"but i'd like to try" was such a gut punch! loved the video, can't wait to binge watch the rest of your channel :D
What frustrates me about the discourse around Mel is people saying that she's pregnant so it's unrealistic she'd be on duty. Not only does the game lampshade that but medics are valuable resources in the world of Last of Us. It makes sense she'd be on duty regardless of her state.
I was going to address this but didn't feel like dealing with the discourse, but you're right. she's a medic and she was needed on-site. they were travelling from their Homebase to the fob through what was supposed to be wlf-controlled territory; obviously the ambush wasn't planned. and also, ofc, it's entirely her choice what she does with her body. as a medic she is more than capable of determining what she can take on.
Yes. This is the most infuriating part of that whole scene. It’s the most basic takeaway people come to, and they only come to it by equating their own expectations around pregnancy without considering the environment they are in.
She’s not fighting. She’s going to the FOB where they will need all the medics possible. That’s made even clearer when you see all the WLF body bags, and even more so when Isaac’s plan is revealed.
Traveling to the FOB isn’t supposed to be overtly dangerous either.
Arguably, Mel is likely the best doctor they have at the base. She studied under someone extremely talented. There’s no doubt she’d be needed in that circumstance.
I was part of the crowd that was mad that Mel(a pregnant woman) was let out on the field, regardless of her wanting to go out or not. I still sort of am, however this is literally the best argument for why she's allowed out. Medics are rarer in their world, so preggo or not she's needed.
@@theblackcatgirl7013i haven’t watched the video yet so I dunno if she touches on this or not, but you also gotta keep in mind that after they returned from Jackson Owen had been dodging Mel (and the rest of the group tbh). Mel says they were given a new place to stay inside the Seahawks Stadium, a place that’s big enough to support their new family, but Owen hadn’t even been by to see it yet. Mel has nothing and is alone, and being pregnant brings a ton of extra stress and emotions/ emotional swings, so Mel decided to get back to work, do what she does best, help others (being a medic). Keeps her busy and is also being useful to others
The only part about Mel’s character that has ever truly annoyed me is how much she puts on Abby regarding going after Joel, when she chose to go and then was completely down with killing Ellie and Tommy to close the “loose ends.” Granted, I COMPLETELY understand the contradictory nature of people, as well as the regret that comes with the actions they took, so I never thought it didn’t make sense for her character to act the way she did. It was just mildly annoying to me on a visceral level, because I put myself in Abby’s shoes and I can imagine she’s like “yo, you chose to go get over yourself”, even if that wouldn’t really resolve anything. If anything, Mel is even more tragic of a character because she was always going to be second to Abby in Owen’s heart and mind.
I feel bad for the chair every time I play this part lol
ruclips.net/video/VLlvDqgu6GY/видео.htmlsi=Tt4po3qBCjUQawlp
At least they gave it a purpose😂😂
The chair:
What chair??
@@TLOU_Goat69 The one that Abby kicks
Mel is to the last of us, what Karen is to the office, a good character who literally did nothing wrong while getting screwed over in the process and for some reason everyone hates her because she thwarts the main relationship
Nah she does plenty wrong. Disloyal as fuck. After everything we see in the game, in her last moments she wants to abandon Abby/Yara/Lev and then tries to convince Owen to snitch to Ellie "she's probably dead anyways 🤓" also not mention she was 100% fine with killing Ellie and Tommy in Jackson
@whatisreddin7367 Did you really call Mel disloyal when Owen and Abby had sex behind her back? Mel was nowhere near disloyal. She was absolutely loyal to her partner, she did her job properly. If you think Mel was disloyal for wanting to tell Ellie where Abby is you're 100% wrong. If you hadn't missed it already, Mel was sick of Abby. Why on earth would Mel risk her life, her child's life, and Owen's life for Abby? That's unrealistic. Also, Mel never once said anything about abandoning Yara or Lev. Wanting to kill Ellie and Tommy was nothing more than self-preservation.
Best TLOU analysis channel going! The way you dig so deep into the core of what’s going on in each scene is incredible to watch. Keep it up
35:05 "ND did a little too good of a job capturing..." You did, too. Thank you very much for your effort analysing. Bravo.
I also thought Mel had suspected or figured out Owen & Abby slept together. And that was the source of her confrontation.
In the next Scene Owen says I don't think Mel has figured out about last night. Which sounds like Owen might have been behaving differently with Mel as a result.
@@NeilCosgrove that happens the day before the confrontation, not the next scene. the scene after this is the "allowed to be happy" scene where Owen gives no indication that he's aware anything is wrong between Mel and Abby.
@@tlou_explained yeah but Owen is an oblivious idiot, he's constantly misjudging the situation
I don't know if she 100% knew the specifics of what they did, but I get a feeling she knew there was *something* going on
God tier edit at the end there.
Honestly you should just do all the scenes, I’m working my way through the ones you’ve done so far and your analysis is incredible. I’ve played through Part II roughly 12 times and you’re painting a whole new, more complex picture for me. Please keep it up. Love the idea of analyzing the story moment by moment as opposed to a single full story analysis. It’ll be way juicier bite by bite.
I've played this game so many times, and have watched many analysis videos online, so i'm always surprised when I learn something new. I never realised Abby had the thank you letter from Mel in her backpack. Such a great video. Looking forward to the next one.
Such a good summary of the story. I never hated Mel as I understood that she was hurt, but know i see things much clearer. Thanks for that
I’m loving these videos! I can never get enough of TLOU, and I’m learning things I never considered or thought of. Please keep ‘em coming!
That editing between Abby and Ellie at the end was perfection.
How intricate this storyline could be?
Im in awe
Mel’s only mistake in my opinion was dating her best friend’s ex. Cause yes, she involuntary is a victim of Abby’s actions
do you feel the same way about Ellie sleeping with Dina a week after she and Jesse broke up?
@@tlou_explainedi actually do, considering Jesse is one of Ellie’s bffs. That’s how I think tho, I get that circumstances are messy specially in a world like tlou. And that’s why I love this game and It’s mirroring. I love Ellie, but she makes a lot of questionable actions in this part :’)
@@tlou_explained Different circumstances in my opinion. With Ellie and Dina it was just a kiss at first which then I think Ellie allowed to develop into something more once she got the all clear from Jesse (which could also be just him keeping the peace.....my man deserved better).
With Abby, Owen and Mel it was obvious from the very start that Abby and Owen had a past before they even stated it on the walk to the cliff to view Jackson.
From the get go Owen and Mel don't click, there are disagreements he doesn't view the family unit back at the stadium cause he's taking on extra assignments.
All signs point to him avoiding her whereas Ellie and Dina do click, they work well together and the only tension they have is when Dina says shes pregnant. So in my opinion Mel got with her friends ex boyfriend knowing that Owen wasn't over Abby at all. Ellie got with Dina after pushing her feelings down but then showed them when Jesse said it was cool.
Either way I think you should never date your friends ex but I also think communication is a must have in these situations.
I don't hate Mel but I hate her choices and her attitude. She blames Abby for actions that Owen also voluntarily took part in but at the same time in her eyes she probably saw it as Abby leading Owen on with a caring front regarding Yara and Lev.
In all honesty the second game doesn't deserve the hate it gets because the whole point of it was to make you question the choices people make and what you view as the wrong choice on one side is the right choice on the other
@@alicedickinson5356 it's just interesting that you make a lot of excuses and interpretations for the Ellie/Dina/Jesse scenario, and then make a lot of assumptions about the Owen/Mel/Abby situation when we don't know how Mel and Owen ended up dating or what the circumstances were. it's also interesting that you're blaming Mel for a lot of this when Owen is the one trying to play two girls.
you're right that the game is about both sides, it's just common to see people put down the characters on Abby's side without giving them the same grace they give to those on Ellie's side, and I find that contradicts the point of the story. just my opinion.
@@alicedickinson5356 I don’t think the circumstances are that different. Dating your friends ex is dating your friends ex and I wish Jesse stuck around long enough to see if it would develop into a problem, especially after the baby was actually born.
These analysis are absolutely needed, I love when someone can bring to light subtext and make it easy and digestible for all audiences, me included. Didn’t like Mel at all, but now I could see some details I previously didn’t catch quite so well so, thank you 🌟
35:31 omg for the last two analysis videos you sneak in an absolutely amazing edit and it just encapsulates how beautiful this story is Great fuckinh job! You’re killing it!!
Abby saving those kids will always be something that came out of the left field for me. It's not only uncharacteristic, but it catches you off guard and makes you wonder why she pursues that singular good thing all of a sudden. So, not far off to think that's exactly how Mel felt.
You know after watching all of these analysis videos on the games story. It’s actually not even as bad of a story as I originally thought it was when I first bought it on release. I take this as a lesson to just experience games with my own viewpoint instead of drowning my mind with other people’s opinions.
Yeah i absolutely love tlou2 and when i saw people hating on it i didnt get it. I understand and feel for abby. Never once did i want abby to die. She was selfish but so was joel, ellie, tommy, marlene too. The hate comes from joel dying pathetically like a dog. Joel killed loads of people like dogs marlene is a huge example. Her death was so pathetic, bleeding out begging to live. I love joel but I think joel had it coming after killing all those people. Rdr2 does this point nicely "you cant do bad things and live a good life" rip joel
For me it was pretty easy to actually sympathize with Mel.. She's not only pregnant with Owen's baby, a dude who keeps dropping everything to be with Abby (who he is clearly still in love with) but she's pregnant during an apocalyptic time where danger lurks around every corner; and Mel is having to face a harrowing journey of trying to raise a kid in such a world. And Owen is just not stepping up to the plate when it comes to preparing for a baby in an apocalyptic world. The only person who is prioritizing the safety of an innocent's life has been Mel.
EDIT: I also wanted to add that I really don't think that Mel is looking to be with Owen per say, rather she is looking to Owen to provide for their child.
I don’t hate Mel, she’s justified to feel the way she does about Abby. Her death scene shook me to my core my first playthrough.
Poor Mel she was the victim, Owen was the real villain in that relationship
That Line "Hey Your my People".
Such a simple statement yet holds weight into it.
Showing that everything that has happened, none of it matters, what matters is that you are important to me. The way Abby said it, with hope, assurance, and deep concern, shows how much she truly cares for Lev.
And that touched me it warms my heart. Showing compassion to people you want to protect, who you knew only for a little time.
This line reminded me so much of My Hero Academia S4 Ep 13 where the Mc is trying his best to save the girl so bad he is risking everthing to save her. And from a person who took her away and experimented on.
And he only knew her because he was just passing by and she bump into him while she escapes from her torturer.
And I felt that care through Abby's words
Thank you so much for these analysis of female frienship. I love this game to the core and i do burst out in tears everytime i see how vulnerable and hurt these characters are. But especially the different female relationships that are depicted in the last of us part two were the once who touched me the most (Dina/Elli, Elli/Abbey, Abbey/Mel). Shared trauma that may lead to deep connection or pure hate and discust.
Your essays are super-smart. I really enjoy how inexorably human these characters are, nuanced and riddled with relatable contradictions. Many of the reactors, content creators, streamers, even some essayists--even honest ones--don't pay attention to the things you do. (Games are monumental efforts, of course: I won't fault somebody for paying attention to different aspects of the enterprise.) But your essays are refreshingly straightforward, even if incisive.
Also, kudos for the "The Last Five Years" reference! Never thought I'd see that in a TLOU2 video. 😅
What's always been interesting to me is Mel's feelings towards Abby were mine exactly when I first played the game. I also initially felt that Abby's sudden change in attitude towards Seraphites was performative and aimed at winning Owen back (rather than being part of a search for inner peace and self-acceptance). And it was pretty clear based on prior gameplay that Abby's revenge on Joel would result in a disproportionate punitive expedition via Ellie and Tommy.
I'm loving these analysis videos! People aren't talking enough in depth about just how carefully layered these scenes are, and these videos are really well made and explain everything really well.
I'm definitely subscribing!
New subscriber with a humble request: cover the scene on the farm where Tommy (seemingly out-of-character) guilt trips Ellie for refusing to chase down Abby based on his lead. I agree that what Tommy did was ultimately wrong, but few people want to focus on how Tommy must have perceived Ellie’s behavior, given everything he lost while trying to satisfy *her* lust for revenge.
@SirJonHarringtonBlumpkinThe8th This is just the point I’m trying to make - if *all* you’re paying attention to is that Tommy’s behavior in this scene seems inconsistent with his previous characterization, then you may be tempted to use words like “lazy” to describe his characterization here.
Have you thought about the possibility that, perhaps, *you* are the lazy one for failing to appropriately empathize with Tommy (simply because his behavior seems “out of character”)? This possibility seems far more likely to me than Naughty Dog simply phoning this scene in, as you’ve suggested.
did you just forget that in between those two conversations Abby killed Jesse right in front of him, shot him in the side of the head, and very nearly killed Ellie and Dina too?
@SirJonHarringtonBlumpkinThe8th firm and unwavering? did you play the first game? he switched loyalties multiple times. changed his mind multiple times. them deciding to go back to Jackson was because they'd killed 7/8 of the Salt Lake Crew and Dina was pregnant and sick.
and yes, obviously a big part of it is being disabled by Abby and Lev. he can barely walk and he can't shoot anymore. he and Maria also split up so no, he doesn't still have his life. he has lost everything, including his only blood relative. the only thing he has left is the thought of getting revenge because like Ellie, he thinks it will help bring him some peace/closure. but he can't do it himself because of what she did to him.
my next video is gonna be about Tommy because he gets way too much hate from people who don't understand him.
@@tlou_explainedCall me crazy, but I think that a lot of folks make the mistake of thinking they have Tommy’s motivations 100% figured by the time he sets out to kill Abby and the WLF. It seems to me that this is something he is doing, not because he shares Ellie’s zeal for revenge per se, but because he wants to honor his brother’s memory and (hopefully) protect Ellie by saving her the trouble. This seems clear from the letter Maria reads to Ellie and Dina. We also know from the later scene that he and Maria have hit the pause button on their relationship. This doesn’t seem worth mentioning unless the writers want us to know that the fallout between them had something to do with Seattle.
If you ask me, Tommy has a lot to be resentful about. It doesn’t make his behavior at the end of the game righteous, but it *is* understandable.
@@fox_e_crow3276 yes I think you're totally right about his motives for going to Seattle. along with seeking justice for his big brother, he did it to protect Ellie. at that point Ellie doesn't know that Tommy knows what Joel did to save her. if Ellie dies on this mission to avenge Joel it would render Joel's whole sacrifice pointless.
I wish fan fiction explored these complex dynamics more often because we didn't get enough of it in the game
14:16 "You guys need to convince this girl to relax."
"Hey Mel?
..Relax. 😎"
It’s so wild to me how anyone can play this game, claim to understand it, and still walk away from it hating ANY of the major characters. None of them are bad or deserving of any hate.
Except Seth cause fuck that guy.
And Isaac, of course. Even the notes that you find throughout Seattle as Ellie corroborate that he was always an asshole who turned a legitimate resistance into his own personal dictatorship.
@@webhead215I wish they'd kept the flashback showing Abby going to the wolves. they could have fleshed out the relationship between her and Isaac more imo
I actually like Seth in TLOU2. Not only was he apart of making the bigot sandwich meme, but his apology to Ellie seemed genuine even though Ellie in the beginning of the story doesn't want to forgive anyone like him at all. Plus considering that he's old, there's a chance he isn't caught up in the modern times and him not knowing much about how ruthless Ellie can be also proves that he's out of the loop of what's going on outside of the safe zone of his community
@@j-the-jolteon8351ehhh I wouldn't say his "apology" is genuine. he doesn't *actually* apologize, and uses his drinking as an excuse. plus, maria clearly made him do it, he wasn't doing it of his own volition. however, it was probably the best he could offer under the circumstances.
when you're wandering in the wilderness as Abby at the beginning you can actually find a note from Seth where he says his wife and eldest son were killed. so he's really just a sad old man who was alive pre-outbreak and just held on to his old fashioned views I guess.
@@tlou_explained Oh really? I didn't know about that note, that's pretty interesting. Just shows that every single character in The Last Of Us is human in their own way. Thank you for telling me
This is a channel I didn’t even know I needed❤
The thing I dont like about Mel is that she willingly got into a relationship with someone who wasnt over their ex and then got pregnant. Plus she basically got with her friends ex boyfriend which is all types of fucked up. (They might not be besties but they clearly knew each other since they were young seeing as Jerry was training Mel). Mel also did put herself into harms way multiple times which was stupid as well. Yes Abby and Owen shouldn't have slept with each other but at the end of the day I feel like Abby thought Owen was the last of her humanity. But I think her going back for Lev and Yara made her realize that Owen isn't what gives her humanity they are, especially Lev. So I think thats why she tells Owen to get his priorities straight cause she realizes that their time is over and she needed to let go of the past and find a new reason to live
do you feel the same way about Ellie sleeping with her friend's ex a week after they broke up? do you feel the same way about Dina accompanying Ellie on her revenge quest, putting herself in harm's way even though she was pregnant?
I suggest you watch my other video "what happened to us".
@@tlou_explained I've replied in another comment about how I feel about Ellie and Dina but to summarize it Jesse in a sense allowed it to happen (we obviously don't know if he did this to keep his friends happy or because he knew him and Dina just wouldn't ever work.....he deserved so much better). We don't know for sure if Mel and Abby spoke about it before Mel got with Owen but in my opinion, which I don't have proof other than what I saw whilst playing the game, they didn't talk about it. Abby seems like the person to bottle up most of her feelings so she wouldn't confront Mel and Owen about their relationship especially with the way things ended between Abby and Owen. Owen from the get go was clearly not over Abby but Mel still went for it but at the end of the day I think you just shouldn't date your friends ex.
it’s kinda unfair to not like mel over this when we dont know the situation’s specifics like we do with jesse, dina and ellie.
for all we know, owen was the one perusing mel and abby allowed it but we unfortunately don’t know. abby and mel really only seem like acquaintances though, at least to me, sincd they never really talk about personal memories and mel doesn’t even show up in flashbacks like owen and manny do.
not meaning to say you’re wrong or bad for your opinion, this is just what im thinking on it.
@humansadness3749 That is a good point, we do know that Mel was working under Abby's dad so surely she should know some things. Plus even if Owen was pursuing Mel surely you would look at the whole picture and see that Abby and Owen are still close and that he has some sort of love for her still. At the end of day Mel is a victim in this situation I just don't like her or her attitude 🤣
Wow I thought I couldn’t love this game any more than I already do but this added a whole new layer, thank you for the thorough exploration!!
This channel is amazing. Really appreciate the care and work you are putting into these.
thanks for this. seeing mel get the representation her character deserves is such a breath of fresh air. i was frustrated at first with her behaviour towards abby, but as youve so thoroughly explained, she really does have every reason to be upset with her. definitely gonna check out the rest of your stuff after this.
It’s been a many long years of debating this game with people who hated it.
“Perspective matters.”
I have no idea how many times I’ve said these exact words. You earned a subscriber for this alone.
Great video, there’s a lot to enjoy about the way you deliver your writing. I look forward to more.
Do you remember apartment where 4 enemies are hiding as Ellie looks around and jump her when she activates the work bench? You find a note titled "WLF deserters letter", and they're heavily implied to be former fireflies (the note uses the phrase "Remember who we were! The WLF took us in, but they are not our people.") who are heading "south" (Santa Barbara) to see if "the rumors are true". And who this letter is addressed to? A person named Melissa.
Obviously it's not a 100% confirmation, Melissa is a common name, but I feel the implications get us 90% of the way there. To me it essentially confirms that Mel was absolutely planning on abandoning leaving, regardless of her ultimatum to Owen, and has been planning to do so for some time. Whats odd is that Owen obviously had no idea about these people when they have basically the same plan as him, except without the boat, which means seemingly that Mel has hiding this information from Owen. So I think these people were her "Plan B" in case Owen doesn't check out.
The main thing that that changes, for me atleast, is that this implies to me that this conversation was not spontaneous. It was something Mel had been working up to. She was planning on giving Owen this ultimatum and she's having this conversation with Abby now because she believes that this is going to be the last conversation she has with Abby (which she is correct about, but not for the reasons she thinks). I don't hate Mel, and I respect that she has reason to be angry with Abby, but I also think she's something of a coward if this is how she purposely tried to have the final word on Abby.
I'm curious how this changes your read on her, if at all.
oo I knew about the deserters but hadn't made the connection that Melissa could be Mel. that's definitely an interesting angle to consider. for sure this conversation is an ultimatum either way.
I've also seen theories that the Firefly Melanie whom Riley refers to in Left Behind could be Mel haha
you can hear some WLF talking about the deserters as Ellie on day 1. by that point Owen had already gone AWOL so it's possible he just wasn't aware of what had happened.
This was BRILLIANT! Thank you SO much for making this!!!
Your videos are fantastic! I've beaten the game several times, watched several videos on the story, and I still learn new details from you!
This is SO GOOD. Absolutely amazing analysis and brought up some really cool subtext I hadn't noticed before. My favourite of your videos so far
The way you edited together Abby saying "I haven't always done the right thing" and Ellie saying "but I would like to try" makes me tear up everytime I watch it. I always seem to forget it's coming and then it happens and BAM, I'm crying. Amazing video, always amazing to rewatch.
I don't dislike Mel for her scene where she calls Abby out, she's right for doing it, but Mel herself is a huge hypocrite. When you play as Abby with Mel and Manny, Mel first laments about how they killed the Scar kids, making her sympathetic. Then, a few moments later, alone with Abby, they talk about Jackson, and how it still affects Mel. Abby asks Mel if she thinks they should'nt have killed Joel, and Mel says: " No, I think he deserved worse. I just wish I didn't have to see it." Like, she's literally okay with torture as long as brute Abby carries it out and holy Mel doesn't have to watch, but she would still very much like Joel to die a painful death. She just doesn't want to feel uncomfy and bad by actually having to witness the violence she otherwise feels just. Up until that point, Mel very much seems like the softest, kindest, warmest member of the group. Then we get this scene, and then, a little later, we get Abby's memories of the moment when Ellie is held down and she is deliberating over just killing Joel, and it's the first time we hear what everyone is saying in that moment, because from Ellies perspective, the sound was blurred out by her focusing on Joel. What we hear is Owen saying to leave Ellie and Tommy alive; they got what they came for. What does Mel say? " They're loose ends. We should kill them." And it's not like Mel was dragged a long out of peer pressure, when we see the flashback of Abby visiting Owen to tell him that she's found Joel, she tells him " I already told Mel- she's on board. Everyone is." Mel certainly didn't go for Abby, and she didn't go for Owen- Owen didn't even know yet.
Yeah, Abby and Owen are also pieces of shit in this dynamic, Owen has no backbone and a wet sock of a character, and it sucks that they cheated. I don't begrudge Mel calling Abby out on that. (Although I felt from the way it was portrayed, that Mel was subconciously aware that things were never really emotionally over between them and was maybe expecting something like this, especially after Abby got her revenge and the obstacle was seemingly removed)
But Mel thinks she's a good, sweet person, when in actuality she can be just as cold blooded and ruthless, she just deludes herself into thinking she isn't by having others do the dirty work.
Thank you! And I will say Mel is at a disadvantage because everyone else in this story accepts that they are a monster or did bad things except for Mel. Like how far are we into the apocalypse?? Everyone is bad? Why is she clutching her pearls now?
Abby's arc to becoming a good person by helping Yara and Lev reminds me so much about Arthur Morgan in RDR2. He believes he cannot become a good person, no matter how many people he helps near the end. Limes like "I said don't thank me" and "I'm afraid" break my heart every time
How have i played this game through so many times and still don't know about those letters in young Abby's backpack 😭
That stitch at the end was CHEF’S KISS!! 35:30
I love this! My feelings about Mel’s character have always been something I couldn’t quite put into words. I was sympathetic for her and I realized there was something else underneath that was just waiting to break their relationship in two. This is an amazing in depth analysis about them.
Great analysis. 15:55 perfectly edited audio / video moment. I missed that death stare after six+ playthroughs.
Owen and Mel were always destined to fail because Owen couldn’t let go of his feelings for Abby. Abby feels guilty for feeling love and joy when her dad’s death was so brutal and an injustice was made. She can’t let herself fall in love with Owen because of her guilt. Though Owen tries to move on he’s still holding onto hope Abby will change her mind and he will leave Mel in a heartbeat regardless of her being pregnant or not. It was never in the cards for Mel to be with Owen and ultimately he is responsible for her death when he tried to protect Abby from Ellie and attacking her while she had a gun pointed at Mel
God this makes me appreciate the dialogue of this game even more- thank you for this
Mel is justified in her behavior in quite a few respects, but i did feel a that her projection of her own guilt is mixed in there for sure. She blames Abby, but she admitted she herself wanted that revenge, hell she wanted worse. But that feeling was proven to be exactly what it always is: the flames of wrath are caustic. And those feelings became a reality. Mel is fundamentally unable to come to terms with her own feelings of hate and resentment and thus needed to lash out at a target she saw as responsible. Now that Joel was dead, Abby takes that new mantle.
^this 1000%
I’d love to see you make a video on Ellie and Abby’s fight on the beach. The before, during, and after fight scenes.
as always you absolutely devour with your analysis’, it truly feels like i’m being fed a full spread when watching your videos. i also know EXACTLY what you were doing by adding in that other POV of abby telling mel to relax and i see you and i thank you for it ✨
I think people really understate how terrifying it would be to be in Mel’s position. She’s heavily pregnant and that makes her incredibly vulnerable.
I think that’s because Mel herself and the game underestimates this. She willingly goes on missions with Abby shooting up scars, even when Abby and friends are like “hey maybe you should stay at base” Mel insist on going on dangerous mission for no real reason despite being pregnent, and comes out fine. It makes no real sense other than “yeah sure I’ll tag along, gotta pull my weight here”.
Her and Dina are both guilty of doing this, with Dina at least being shown to be vulnerable. Mel doesn’t.
That part where Abby yells at Lev after Yara’s death really broke my heart. It took me a minute to realize that those children did to Abby what Abby could not do to Joel. Forgive and have mercy on the enemy. I think them sparing Abby’s life is when she decided to choose them. Hence ‘you are my people.’ can’t imagine how heartbreaking it is to watch those you love die. Even more heartbreaking to know you’re the catalyst to that cause.
Your videos are a breath of fresh air with all the negative energy surrounding tlou
next video couldn’t come out sooner, i have never seen such beautiful deduction of a scene ever before, this and the other two have actual literature values to them that makes me crave more
These series are a gem for the Last of Us II. A true gem
I’ve been binge watching these analysis to pass the time, and I can confidently say that you made me love this game even more. I have no idea why so many people hated it at the start, its truly brilliant what naughty dog did with this game, if someone is able to make a well thought analysis scene by scene in game, the developers are doing something right you earned a subscriber thank you 🙏
So for people saying Mel is bad, cheating on your partner is good, right? Ah hell nah
You’re videos have made me like this game more. I was pretty salty about it like most popular but understanding the characters more helps put the story into perspective
2:30 i agree with you because why would Marlene go make that recording after the doctor is killed......... She didnt have time to do that because she was in the garage of the hospital. Also being killed by Joel.
Tlou is probably my favorite game of all time, watching your videos made me realize so much things about the game, it makes me like the game even more! Please don’t stop posting, i would love to see your perspective about the Ellie’s point of view of the story and the hole thing with joel and Dina, anyways love your content. I’ll be waiting for more.
To be fair I think Abby is the actual most overhated character in this game. I used to hate her with a passion and willfully ignored the clear parallels between her and Joel but it was actually this channel that changed my pov. Although I’m still unhappy with the direction much of the story took.
Ugh god my new favorite RUclips channel rn
Don't stop making theseeee
I'm loving these analysis videos, they bring us a nice place to discuss the subtle themes of this game, and not just polemic stuff that's been around for a while
It makes no sense to hate Mel. I don't hate Mel. I felt sorry for her. She got into a relationship with Owen who didn't love her the way he loved Abby, then he didn't break things off and she got pregnant. Unfortunately sealed her fate when she traveled to see Joel die and you can see she regretted participating in such a brutal murder. And she was right to want to kill Ellie and Tommy. It made me sad Owen had an affair with Abby and I definitely think she knew something happened between them. I liked how she called Abby out on her BS and you can see Abby agrees and didnt argue with Mel. I wonder if she told Ellie "wait I'm pregnant" and showed Ellie, if Ellie would have definitely spared her and let her walk away considering Dina is pregnant. Mel is such an underrated tragic character I love her PoV and it sucks her unborn baby was caught in the middle.
@@thepeskyone That actually got me wondering, I've never once heard of anyone straight-up hate Mel for.......basically being incredibly based outside of the glaring problems, especially if they hate Abby
It must have been a fight or flight moment Ellie was going to let the two live and Owen fucked it up and a bit of Mel too by trying to rush Ellie after she shot Owen plus that jacket of hers was hiding her bump had it been visible Ellie would have probably just knocked her out
I am only a few minutes into this video, but man i can't tell you how FURIOUS I am every time you point something out that I never noticed despite playing this game multiple times. In this case recording = maybe Mel? Keep up the amazing work!
i love these videos
I just wanna say i've been appreciating your videos so incredibly much- I am an avid youtube consumer...especially when it comes to media such as video games and film,,,so analysis videos/video essays are my absolute favorite things to watch. but what i've noticed recently is how nearly every. single. video. is made by a man. and lately i have not been able to *not* notice it, and it really turned me off from those types of videos even though they are my favorite. hearing a woman do a deep dive in a game like this truly made my day, especially when you are able to relate personal experiences (female friendships/communication between abby and mel) to what you are discussing. so i just wanted to say thank you so much for that, and its so nice to hear women voicing their opinions so well in a male-dominated video genre!!!! i loved your analysis!!
I actually didn't care much for Mel during the game. I sided with Abby in most of their dialog despite how cold Abby could come off. But after watching this, Im starting to understand how nuanced all of these characters are, and I definitely have a lot more compassion for Mel.
I didn’t even know these characters had so much depth into them. Your work on them is amazing.
The issue I have is that there is still nothing in Abby’s past that would even hint that she would create a ploy to use Yara and Lev. Coming to the conclusion that’s what she is doing goes against everything she is. She’s direct, blunt as a hammer, to get what she wants. Abby isn’t a scheming, deceptive person. Besides, if she wanted Owen, all she’d have to say is “I want you/I love you” and he’d be hers. Mel knows this. Mel knew he was hung up on her, which is why she’s not okay with her being around. Why she completely isolated herself from Abby even before the incident.
She jumped to a completely unreasonable conclusion because she expects the worst from Abby. Ignores Abby’s actions and character almost wanting it to be true that Abby can’t become a better person. She’s an absolutely horrible friend. All of her dislike travels back to jealousy around two people that were Abby’s people. One of which died, and the other she actively wanted to isolate away from Abby.
And whether or not she feared retribution or not, being willing to kill an innocent girl that was just begging for her “father’s” life after their experience in SLC shows she’s no better than any of the rest of them. She just likes to think she is. Even being willing to give Abby up without hesitation. She wanted Abby gone because she sees her as the source of all her problems, especially with Owen.
And it’s also implied Manny and Abby have tortured before, and are very willing participants once they go to see Isaac. Manny even implies it when he says “not like us”. So not knowing she’d go to that length with Joel rings quite hollow to me.
Still, great analysis and insight into her character and the dynamics between the two. I just don’t see Mel as a good person. Abby knows she’s not, Mel won’t admit that she isn’t.
Beautiful analysis. I never understood Mel until you broke it down. After watching this I def empathize more with her than Abby.