Thank you all so much for your patience while I prepared this one! I did not anticipate it taking two whole months. The main reason it took so long is because I've been starting a new job and that has taken a lot of my energy. The good news is, I am now officially a game writer so I feel much more qualified to make these vids😅 I hope you enjoy it
congratulations! really excited to get in to the video. I just happened to look up your channel right after upload, any chance you'll be announcing new videos on Twitter going forward?
@@tlou_explained congrats on the new job PS Neil Druckmann gotta hit you up so bad You have a deep understanding with this material and you’ll be perfect for the team for sure
Both Dina and Owen loved Ellie/Abby so much and tried hard to keep them away from a destructive path. But alas, both got pushed away. Not to mention Jessie/Mel becoming collateral damage in the process….
@@Jaesee Let’s not play. While Abby is sympathetic in some aspects, she still ruthlessly killed someone that the players loved (he deserved A form of punishment for his actions, but it doesn’t change nor undermine what the players feel, especially those who understood why Joel did what he did in the end), and she’s judged for it in the story (albeit for different reasons). She also causes Ellie, another character players love, a lot of grief, especially in that she and Joel couldn’t reconcile because of Abby’s actions and she ended up being the cause of her PTSD, all of which makes ABBY somewhat worthy of hatred from the PLAYERS’ perspective for understandable reasons. You can pretend otherwise, but it is what it is. On the other hand, Dinah didn’t do anything worthy of hatred other than do what was best for her mental health and the health of her son. It sucks for Ellie, but again, it is what it is.
@Annavslv ??? I've played both games multiple times kid. TLOU2 is my favourite game ever made, actually my favourite piece of media ever made. Obviously I made a generalisation for the sake of making a joke, but I do believe that Abby as a character receives a disproportionate amount of hatred from some people, with some people refusing to engage with her perspective ALTOGETHER. To me, this is petty.
@pathetic2399 I understand your point, my comment wasn't meant literally but was simply drawing comparisons between a players limited sense of empathy towards characters holding an alternative perspective from the one we have been presented with (i.e. playing as Ellie in TLOU2 and Joel in TLOU1). It's not that deep obviously, just a thought I had haha
i can’t imagine what it’s like to care for a deeply mentally ill person while also battling with your own trauma… separating was truly the best for both of them
I work in domiciliary care and as sad as it sounds it's actually somewhat common. Not just for workers but for families of some of my clients. Parts of the dynamics and relationships in this game are surprisingly familiar. It's great writing.
As someone who was with a person who was with another person who was deeply mentally ill while also battling trauma (partly from the relationship. The mental ilness and trauma describe us both, actually. I could relate more with Ellie since I tend to be a stone wall), it's pretty fucking difficult and heart breaking. That said, the choice to let go and go separate ways has resulted in me beginning the process of my healing, and for hers as well. That dynamic is so deeply toxic and there is nothing either party can do to "fix" the other. That shit has to be realized and at least started individually. It's painful, but the catharsis that comes with the choice to heal is truly something. I remember playing this game again after the end of our relationship, and their dynamic and specifically the end when she returns to the farm hit on a whole new deeper level. There's a lot of hope and positivity in the subtext of that scene to me.
@@tlou_explainedi cant believe people call this game woke. Every gay character suffers the most in this series. (Besides Joel who probably suffered the most)
Maybe im late to this realization but the fact that Ellie and Dina’s first time together, is the same day she saw Joel being killed in front of her meant that those two events will always be connected, even on a subconscious level. She could never have stayed with Dina because it will have always brought back that day and that traumatic moment.
another thing, she could also be subconsciously blaming Dina in a way, since it’s them on patrol looking for Joel and Tommy, the fact that ellie possibly feels like, with Dina she wasted time since she knew Joel was already missing when they left for patrol. It could add to her frustration especially later on when Dina had to tell her she was pregnant, Ellie could feel it was again, more wasted time.
@@TrashPanda.loveTrash I think maybe subconsciously Ellie blames herself for Joel's death. Since Joel went out looking for her, had ellie and Dina not snuck off things would've been WAY different
When Ellie tells Dina that she doesn't believe in luck, I also always interpreted it as something she took after her experience with David. Ellie had told him that they had gotten lucky, dealing with those infected effectively, and David told her "No such thing as luck" and "Everything happens for a reason". I don't think that Ellie fully believed that, but this is a point in her life where she's completely leaned on her cynical side and she might be taking David's philosophy because she can't find herself to be optimistic. Maybe even out of spite to feelings of guilt she has with being happy and/or optimistic. It's almost like a knee jerk reaction to hope, but I find it interesting that she's almost directly echoing David there because the last time she spoke about luck, it was moments before turning that around with David's ominous philosophy, followed by the most traumatic thing that happened to Ellie prior to the second game - which was her killing of David. The loss of Ellie's innocence, and one of the first instances of a cycle of violence. Also, and I don't remember this very clear but I'm pretty sure that Joel used to frequently make subtle comments about luck, such as that they survived by sheer luck or that luck runs out. Tess said that their luck would run out sooner or later when she got infected too. Both of those characters ended up having their luck run out, and so did David, who didn't believe in it. It's too much of a vague concept that Ellie can't afford right now, it could blind her in her conviction to kill Abby by placing the outcome up to fate, when she wants to do it herself and control the situation, hence to why she denies understanding the reasoning for killing Joel. Ellie also survived once out of pure unadulterated luck, with her immunity, and it turned out to be completely meaningless (despite trying to find meaning with her death) and all hope she had for a future burned into sorrow and pain. I find it interesting how Ellie used to react to the concept of luck in the first game, compared to the second game, and how jaded she has become to it to the point of completely denying and opposing it, and whether she realises it or not maybe she even agrees with David now, just like she came to understand and agree with Bill after her experiences. Luck is meaningless, everything happens for a reason. And she will become that reason that will kill Abby.
Dude I’m so happy I saw this cause I thought the exact same thing when I first played the game. I didn’t notice the change of thought for Bill tho so thanks for pointing that out too
@@The_hero_of_Hyrule_ The change of thought with Bill was mentioned in the video, and I didn't notice it either until then. The change with the concept of luck and David I noticed since my first ever viewing back in 2020, so I thought to mention it since I haven't seen anyone comment on it. I think it can get even deeper than that because I almost think it's a theme in the first TLOU, if not both games. It seems that characters keep bringing up luck in one way or another, which is interesting to think since it's a world about such bleak survival
I always thought Ellie's "I don't think you do" in reference to how she'd rate the kiss was her way of confessing almost, that she'd rate it so high that it'd change things between her and Dina and scare her off
Dina was pregnant but she still went for the revenge trip just because of Ellie. Yet the moment Ellie knows that she is pregnant, Ellie call her a burden... Dina is the best partner you can ask for, supportive, living, caring... Ellie has a lot of lesson to learn
@@cancon901sure, but without Dina, Ellie wouldn’t have had any info on the WLF. Dina is the one that mapped out the WLF strongholds by listening to their radio. Not to mention Ellie would’ve most likely died without Dina.
@@stevenburrows240 doesn’t matter what dina did, point is ellie warned her beforehand that she did not have to go. dina should’ve automatically valued the possibility she was pregnant over a choice ellie did not force her to make. im not sayin dina is useless, but a baby is more important than ur girlfriends revenge mission any day.
@@cancon901 I mean, she didn’t realize it until it was already too late. Also, given the traumatic experience and grieving going on, it’s more understandable that she joined. Story is about how trauma and all that does affect your thinking
The way Ashley played Ellie during the final breakup scene was heart wrenching. I got such an overwhelming sense that Ellie felt completely powerless in that moment and compelled to leave to find Abby. It wasn't about wanting revenge as much as feeling it was the only thing she could possibly do to make her pain stop. It would either stop, or she would die trying. I'm convinced of Ellie had decided to stay with Dina, she probably would have taken her own life out of desperation before long. She was at the bottom of the abyss and the only way out was through.
I think some irrational/illogical part of her brain was saying to her. "Joel sacrificed the world for you, and yet you won't even go finish this mess you started. Tommy lost everything to help you, Jesse died helping you, and Joel gave up the world to save YOU"
It finally dawned on me! Ellie wearing Dina's Hamsa charm is *not* proof positive they got back together off screen. I don't personally think they did. The final scene with Ellie and Joel, she says, "I don't know if I can forgive you. But I'm willing to try." (Or words to that effect) I think the charm at the end signifies that Dina hasn't forgiven Ellie for abandoning her and JJ at the ranch, but she's willing to try.
I think it more symbolizes that Ellie has regained hope. What happened with Abby at the beach finally resolved her grief for Joel. She may not believe in luck, but it represents to her and that there are good things in life. I don't think there will be a future for her with Dina, but it can be a reminder of those good things that are worth living for after all.
@@Cleretic This is exactly what I was about to comment. I don't think she's necessarily wearing it with the hope of making amends with Dina. But she's hit her rock bottom and come out the other side, and has found a measure of acceptance regarding everything that has happened - including her own immunity. She's started to let go of her guilt and shame; started to accept Joel's final wish for her, which was simply that she get to grow up, and have a life, and live it. Her wearing the bracelet is, I think, a symbol of the fact that she's ready to try to get better, to try and be better, and to accept that she is allowed to have good things in her life, allowed to hope, and allowed to be loved. She's lost her chance with Dina - but she's ready to try to be the kind of person who deserves the things Dina and Joel wanted for her.
Disagree, I think the game implies that they are done deal. I think too many people are putting too much stock in this exchange of the bracelet and when Ellie isn't wearing and isn't. For all we know she couldn't have been wearing it in Cali because she didn't have time to pack it because she was rushing to leave, or maybe she didn't think she deserved to wear it for abandoning them But after choosing the right path and not choosing revenge she feels more deserving to wear it And I have said this elsewhere but the biggest indicator that there has been 0 conversation between Ellie and Dina since Cali is that we would have seen it. Do you really think Naughty Dog, the current king of relationship drama scenes in video games are really going to skip the Dina and Ellie reunion after Ellie abandoned them... like really?
The reason why Dina goes to Seattle with Ellie, is the same reason she leaves the farm with JJ in the end: because she couldn’t bare the thought of spending the entire time Ellie was gone wondering whether or not she’d died.
1:27:33 A weird note, Dina kept the portraits of herself and JJ that Ellie painted and signed which was a super interesting detail. Maybe Dina wants to cling to the idea that Ellie might return or it’ll essentially be an effigy to remember Ellie. Interested about your thoughts.
Making me wish I'd expanded on this more! But the notion of Dina taking some things and leaving others behind "just in case" Ellie came back, is fascinating- and shows at the end of the day Dina still loved and cared for her, even if she couldn't wait for her.
@@tlou_explainedI think it would make everyone happy while still being thematically relevant if they end up together, but I'm also huffing that copium so idk 😭
Idk. Wanting a portrait of yourself and your child from an old relationship is pretty normal and doesn’t necessarily mean anything. It’s probably pretty rare to have portraits done in the first place. Probably a memento more than anything else.
@@meg0769but this is the last of us. every detail, piece of dialog, action, EVERYTHING is thought out with an insane amount of detail. especially considering the conditions of ellie and dina’s relationship, i really doubt it is as simple as just “wanting a portrait”
When I first experienced TLOU2, I felt that Dina was a very flat character with no goals of her own. She was only there to follow Ellie and be the love interest. It wasn't until their last scene at the farm when she stood up to Ellie that I felt like she became a character of her own, completely independent of Ellie. Your essay is not only a great analysis of their relationship, but is also a wonderful character analysis of Dina. She hadn't lived for herself for so long, and in turn wasn't her own person, until she broke away from Ellie.
I’m glad I’m not the only one that feels this way. Dina just didn’t feel interesting as much as she should’ve been. But that final scene with her made me see where she stands and made me unlike her more.
I felt this was more a fault of Naughty Dog, Dina and Ellie didn't have any chemistry really? It felt very rushed and I didn't feel anything for then either. Riley felt a lot more natural and it was sweet seeing their relationship. Ellie and Dina just went from friends to randomly hooking up and suddenly they're the love of each other's lives? They just wanted to insert a love interest for Ellie and put zero effort into building it up.
@@persephone3309 side characters in Part 2 is the one area that Part 2 doesn’t do better than the first game. And yeah that’s on Naughty Dog, BUT, to be fair with how much is in Part 2 and what they tried to do, I can forgive them. People have complained about the pacing and length since launch week, now imagine an even longer game. There’s a lot more moving gears in Part 2, so it makes sense not all the gears got enough time to shine.
@@persephone3309 they had feelings for eachother beforehand but it was just a crush I think but them both being single gave them the opportunity to deeper their relationship. they kissed and then the next day they hooked up so that's not out of the blue at all. its actually pretty normal to hook up before dating and considering they were friends for a while and had crushes on each other it makes sense. there was also a time skip between joels death and ellie and dina starting their journey.
I want to point out that the line is “Where you go, I go.” This makes it an almost direct quote from the Old Testament, which means it’s probably intentionally meaningful on an even deeper level to Dina. The full quote is “Where you go, I will go. Your God will be my God. Your people, my people.” This means the cyclic nature is also here with chosen family, as Abby says “you’re my people!” again removing a single word from the original quote.
17:50 I always interpreted Ellie’s “I don’t think you do” to Dina’s question to rate the kiss as her being serious for once, meaning she thought the kiss was amazing. And that she thinks it meant more to her than to Dina. Which would also fit into the whole trying to be flirty but also being insecure thing. Dina’s reaction would then just be her way of telling Ellie that she reciprocates her feelings. I think 🧚
Especially afterwards when hearing Dina rating the kiss lower than Ellie thought it would. This is exhibited when Dina said a 6 that would be a reason for someone who does struggle with feeling insecure to be even more insecure about themselves and how they are perceived by someone they have feelings for. I can see that Ellie taking that as an indication that the kiss meant more to her than Dina and also used as a response to Dina’s question.
i feel like the scene where both ellie and dina are on the floor after the fight with abby says so much about their situation. to me, dina being under a bright white light represents how she has more in life to experience. more opportunities. the wood planks under her show how she's "protected" and has support. ellie on the other hand, has a red light over her and is on the bare floor. most of the time red lights represent a more serious or dangerous tone. her being on a naked floor shows how her worst fear came true. she's alone
I think when Ellie tells Dina she doesn't think she would actually want to know how she would rate the kiss, i don't think she's teasing at all. It always seemed more to me that she means she doesn't think Dina would want to know how much she actually _liked_ it, because she's scared Dina is just messing around and isn't actually interested in her. That's exactly what i would have done. I share a lot of similar personality traits with Ellie, including her flaws to some degree. One of those is never believing I'm good enough for anything or anyone.
Has anyone noticed the reoccurring appearances of moths mostly linking to Ellies character? I think it's a symbol of her still 'looking for the light' :'(
I just wanted to add something to the scene where Dina first is showing her signs of morning sickness in game, she mentions the smell being what caused it, and I don't think she was necessarily lying in that moment. Smells can trigger nausea in those who are pregnant because of the hormone fluctuation. In my playthrough, I took this as foreshadowing and if you look back at Ellie's journal entries during their trip to Seattle, it becomes very obvious that she is dealing with morning sickness to the player as well. But that's ONLY if you chose to read those entries when given the chance.
38:32 - 39:15 I love this part. Specifically because it had me thinking of the line Abby says to Ellie later in the game. “We let you go. And you *wasted* it.” All those lives Joel took in the hospital. The innocent ones among them. They didn’t get that chance from Joel. Abby openly gave Ellie that chance. In the first game Joel says “You’ll only come after her.” And shoots Marlene. We can assume he had a similar mindset throughout his, for lack of better words, “rampage” in the hospital. Joel “cleaning things up.” did wipe the chance of Ellie being looked for, but it put a wanted poster square on his forehead. Something he definitely doesn’t regret. Abby *not* “cleaning things up.” in the case of Ellie and Tommy, left a wanted poster square on her forehead. Something she later comes to regret. I could talk more in depth about these decisions because it suddenly lit up a fire in my brain. That feeling of connecting dots. But I may be way under qualified. As my only experience with this game was a solid 4 years ago via RUclips playthroughs. I just think the lines; “We let you go. And you *wasted* it.” And “No. You’ll only come after her.” between two characters who are undeniably paralleling each feels incredibly well done. (When Abby’s friends are arguing about finishing off Tommy and Ellie, Abby’s expression throughout the whole conversation, I believe, holds so much more weight when we think about it from this perspective I mentioned.) Then again like I said, I’m severely out of the circle when it comes to TLOU2 to confidently make any statements about the characters actions and inactions in an analytical way. With a chance of being wrong being greatly high haha.
Hello I so get the feeling of listening to something that connects the dots in your head even if it might make no sense to somebody else but I want to hear your full thoughts please and thank you
@@lilac_rain3855 I definitely will get things wrong! So as much love as I have for this idea I’m probably better off waiting until I re experience the series to talk about it. So maybe I’ll finish off my train of thought and come back to this comment when I’ve done that. Sorry I’m leaving you off so badly.
@@The1andonlysharpshooter I wasn't denying your point, it's actually quite sound and I agree with you, but the line is wrong, not the sentiment, the wording. It's like getting the "tears in rain" quote wrong.
I was one of those people who clung to the idea that maybe Ellie and Dina got back together in the end, or at least are trying to rekindle a relationship. But with this video putting into perspective just how much Dina sacrificed for Ellie, i really comprehend it is sooo important and necessary that she left for her and her child’s sake. The house may have held some precious memories for both Ellie and Dina, but it was also really isolating, and Dina moving out should be the start of her healing process. You can’t help another unless you put your own oxygen mask on, as you said. TYYY for this amazing video!🫶🏼
some of the cut scenes of the farm and what we see of ellie on the farm makes me think that she primarily hunts for the family, which is an interesting role to analyze, especially when compared to dina. it feels almost familiar to the nuclear family, with a homemaker (dina) and a breadwinner (ellie), which, if you extrapolate, puts ellie in the traditionally masculine role and dina in the traditionally feminine. this sort of foreshadows their conflict, with ellies emotional distance and dinas nurturing personality clashing. on top of this, hunting for ellie makes a lot of sense. it allows her to be away for hours on end, without dina to worry about. if she doesnt eat or gets hurt, it doesn't burden dina. if she has a flashback, it won't hurt jj. this might be a bit of a stretch, but i also wonder if hunting animals is a way for her to try and suppress her emotions. my main reasoning for this is that in part one, deer (one of the most common hunted animals) are reminders of her greatest trauma (at the time) in the form of david and the winter section. that, and nature in general (mostly in part one) is representative of hope and the potential for the world. in a thematic sense, hunting and killing animals could be a way to try and ignore/shut down her trauma without actually dealing with it, and also how she deals with the fact that she feels like she has no future. along with all of this, the only other time we see ellie hunting is in the opening of the winter section of part one, which you can argue is her lowest point in that game.
Another incredible video! Probably my favourite yet. Another sign that Ellie and Dina were doomed from the start is the fact that the track that plays when they kiss in Eugene’s basement is literally called “It Can’t Last (Home)”. Their relationship was bound to break from the very moment they sealed the deal; the home they set up together was always going to fall apart.
You are by far my favorite analyzer on youtube! Your insight into the characters is so well done. I still remember my first playthrough, getting to the empty farmhouse, I was immediately in tears once Ellie walked in, but what really destroyed me was walking into the bedroom. Dina hung Ellie's jacket up next to the bed, and folded up sheets and a blanket and left a pillow. I still can't tell if it was a kind gesture in case Ellie returned, or a passive-aggressive jab inviting her to sleep in the emptyness she caused. Either way made me sob. I'll never forget it.
I love and miss them but I know dina could not hang on if she continued to put up with Ellie, She was so strong for her and JJ but Ellie didn't show her gratitude by letting go of Abby. It hurt to watch Dina leave at first but I grew to understand that Dina needed to realise that she mattered too and she couldn't be patient forever. That's why she is my favourite character, she is mentally mature and tried her best to make Ellie feel loved even though she could not stop Ellie from going down the rabbit hole of revenge when she agreed to finish it.
I love love love when you insert clips from the tv show too. Neil and Craig added context to these characters in the show that directly influences how I view the game. I appreciate that you don’t ignore the additional material
I think that Dina being so kindly dismissive and forgiving of Ellie's worse moments is probably another big part of why Ellie felt the need to leave. In the scene where she has the ptsd episode in the barn Ashley says that that's a defining moment where Ellie thinks she's even put her family in danger and it'd be better for her to leave, and for Dina to make a joke and forgive it so easily, and then try to protect her when Tommy is (in Ellie's mind probably) rightfully mad about her going back on an important promise she's made... Yeah, that coupled with her already low self esteem, lack of getting better, etc. She definitely felt she didn't deserve the forgiveness she was getting, and probably even that it was unfair of her to stay when she knew better. Knew she wasn't getting better while Dina was waiting, knew she wasn't worth the wait. Dina has pushed through every moment by silently reassuring and comforting Ellie, letting her work through things alone, but always being there, and Ellie has been aware of it, but she personally goes through those moments full of guilt, feeling alone in her misery, and realizing how easily (to her) Dina pushed through it.
I always like to point out how at the end when Ellie visits the farm house, asides from her belongings being in her art studio, there is a set of clean sheets on top of the bed! And I just think this is so Dina, she knew and was hoping Ellie would be back and even tho she wasn't going to be there waiting for that, she still thought about it and cared enough to leave essential things around, just in case.
okay i see you with that anxious ellie finger twiddle parallel at 7:45 and right as youre talking about her being an innocent, still the same kid she ever was. soooo smart
I really wanna see a breakdown of Maria and Tommy's relationship too because it feels so similar to Ellie and Dina as well. And a analysis of how the different character types of Jesse, Dina, and Ellie were sort of doomed as well as a group. Jesse always felt like the doomed level head, the sturdy empathetic and critic to me, his death made sense and so did his absence in the game up until we meet him again. Like the true "compas" everyone failed to acknowledge, or an option that was never considered.
1:00:30 when you made the connection of that scene with Joel using the same tactic on Ellie,.. my mind was BLOWN. These seemingly not that significant connections really keep amplifying just how much Ellie subconsciously tries to emulate Joel. That man literally shaped her.
Incredible analysis. When this game first came out I was a bit too immature to fully grasp the complexities of their relationship; I mostly viewed it as something idyllic and dreamed of having a partner like Dina. Looking back four years later it’s interesting to see that they are actually far from being perfectly healthy, and this video did an amazing job explaining all the intricate nuances of these wonderfully flawed and human characters
This is a magisterial analysis of the harmartia of Ellie and Dina's relationship which I think does justice to the depth and sophistication of the storytelling and character development in the game. Many thanks for this. A point about Ellie wearing the bracelet and, I agree, returning to the farm in the hopes of getting back together with Dina. In my view, the central message of the story is of the importance of relationality in giving us a sense of meaning. As Druckmann stated, the story is about love. It is a narrative about hate to make a statement about love. Ellie's anger at Joel stems from her perception that he robbed her life of its purpose and meaning. Her anger at Abby is just as much about losing the chance to forgive Joel for that as it is about the fact of the murder of someone she loved. The final scene with Joel emphasises that, yes, Joel's motivations were selfish in saving her but that also he saved her so that she might live. Joel found meaning through his relationship with her and, in turn, Ellie will find meaning in her life the same way we all do- through our loves. Our community, our romantic relationships, our friendships etc. So much of the story, as I think is ably pointed out in this video, is seeing Ellie going through all of the adolescent rites of passage whereby we discover the importance and joy of recognition from significant others. That is the journey Abby goes through. She is still haunted by the loss of her relationship with her father after meting out revenge on Joel. A quest which cost her Owen, someone she loved and who loved her in return. It is the relationship she develops with Lev that heals her, that gives her purpose and meaning. Just as it had done with Joel as regards Ellie in the first game. Ultimately, Ellie was surrounded by loving relationships that gave her life meaning- Joel, Tommy, Dina, Jessie, JJ. Her anger at losing her sense of meaning and purpose and her anger towards Joel for taking it from her were misplaced. What really gives us purpose is the role we play in other people's lives and the roles they play in ours. Ellie had to lose all of that to see that. That is the importance of the bracelet, and of the final flashback with Joel where he asks her about Dina and affirms that he would save Ellie again if put back in that situation. I think that is what ultimately makes this narrative a great piece of art. It takes a particularistic narrative in a contrived context to make a point about the universal human condition. What makes Ellie's life purposeful and meaningful is not her humanity-saving potential, but something very ordinary that is true of all of us. It is that, by sheer virtue of the fact that we live, we enrich the lives of other people who, in turn, enrich ours. It is a very simple message but a profound and powerful one and has elements of the Talmudic concept, with which Dina would be well familiar, of 'whomsoever saves one life, saves the world entire'. Ellie does not have to save humanity any more than the rest of us do. We save the world in being the joy of any other human being's life. We are the world entire to them.
35:00, I feel like this is a very important point to remember because even when watching the gameplay, I could tell that Dina wasn't 100% into the mission. Obviously, Ellie would be more incensed than anyone else but Dina was really just along for the ride.
Yeah, I never got the idea she was really into it either. Dina wanted to watch Ellie’s back since there was no talking her out of it. I also think it’s a similar case with Owen going with Abby to Jackson.
@@kalex270 That's a good parallel! Another comment talked about how both Owen and Dina tried to steer Abby and Ellie away from their revenge, acting as moral guides and anchors, only to end up being pushed away causing Ellie and Abby to isolate themselves and miss out on that relationship! Man, I love TLoU pt.2
your videos are some of the best character analyses i’ve ever seen. i hate when a video claims to be an “analysis” but is really just a detailed recap. you really go above and beyond in order to understand the character’s perspectives and motivations, and you take the complex characters naughty dog created and make them feel even more human and real. it’s like you unspool the yarn that is a character in order to help others understand them on such a deep level. fantastic work and i will forever be a fan!!!!!!!
What I love about TLOU, especially TLOU2, is that months to even years later, I still learn new things about the game I never noticed or thought of before. The intro you had with "You go, I go, end of story" and how that matches with the end of the game just blew my mind. I miss Dina, I wish we had gotten more time with her in the early sections of the game.
i haven't finished watching this video yet but the beginning is already so good! Amazing way to flip the meaning of "if u go, i go. End of story" im emo
Genuinely one of the best analyses I've seen. It also came at such a perfect time for me, as I've been thinking about the toxicity of their relationship for a while now. But you looked at it way better than i could have, with so many details i missed. I agree it's a massive shame that dialogue during capitol hill is missable. I've played the game 7 times and never knew it existed, and it's such a gut punch knowing their full story. Thanks for such an excellent video
1:22:45 THANK YOU everytime i see a video essay on part 2 and they talk about the final conversation between ellie and dina they never mention this part, dina mentioning joel and jessie in that way was a line that needed to be crossed but in that moment it shouldn’t have and the fact that it was only pushed ellie to go more than it would make her stay
Man, Naughty Dog really cranked the subtlety up to 11 when presenting their characters, didn't they? The original game certainly had its moments, but Part II takes it to a whole other level.
I would add that when Ellie says "I can't sleep. I can't eat," what she means is that she can't live like that anymore. She feels like there are only two possible ways out. Either she kills Abby and maybe gets better, or she dies and is released from all the trauma and pain she's carrying.
i'm back after finishing the video and this was, as i've said for most of your analyses, incredible. i feel like so many in the tlou fanbase overlook how toxic dina and ellie's relationship was from the very start. how stunted they were in communicating and how ellie assumed things of dina without actually hearing her thoughts. as well as the parallels with how ellie is trying to fill the hole in herself that joel left by behaving like him, becoming him in some of the worst ways through the manipulative tactics he'd used on her before. people idolize her and joel's relationship the same way they do her and dina's, imo. regardless of where the series goes in the future, i hope we get some hints as to where dina and jj ended up, and i hope they're both well. like you said, they (and ellie!) deserve a happier ending.
I’ve played TLOU2 at least 3 times and never came across the foreshadow dialogue about Ellie mentioning sick/injured people being a burden.. WOW! My perspective on why Dina held out from telling Ellie for so long made sense as soon as I heard that foreshadow…. It’s amazing how much I still learn from this game with every playthrough and video I watch. The level of editing and detail in this video and every other one of yours is evident to your passion for this f*cking amazing game/story & every video is 1000% worth the wait every time. Sending love and cannot wait for the next video 😘❤xx
This is by far my favorite TLOU analyzation that I’ve seen. I really appreciate the time you take to fully back up both your argument whilst counter arguing at the same time. Plus all of the journal entry readings and clips of Ellie that I’ve never seen to accompany that- I can really see how much time and effort you put into this. I feel that much of the backlash to this game is quite easy to disprove, and not only were you able to tie in themes from both games having heavy interactions between them in their relationship, but you were able to point out things that I haven’t even thought about or heard before that only strengthend the games story. I loved how you approached Dina’s backstory, and I truly feel more tied to these characters and who they are then I was before. My appreciation for this game and its art has only grown and I feel that your videos do that best at partaking in this growth. You’re knowledge as a writer definitely comes through in your makings than other videos where the writing is seen as mere cheap manipulation. Keep up the good work!! The wait is always worth it 😉 I’m also glad to see someone feel and appreciate these games and relationships as much as I do, from writer to writer!
I've been waiting for this one. Your essays are some of the best TLOU related content I've seen on this platform. Not only are your insights into the art of storytelling always fascinating, but I've seen few who have grasped the incredible depth of this game'S narrative quite as well as you. Thank you for this one in advance, I'm sure it was worth the wait. ♥♥
I have just discovered your channel today, and it’s so refreshing to finally see someone else beside me who defends this masterpiece of game. I love how you were able to analyse in such a deep way even the missable conversations, and how you managed to let everyone see how TLOU rhymes in terms of themes, scenes, etc. On the surface, this might seem a revenge game, but it’s actually a forgiveness game: what keeps Ellie fixated on killing Abby, on “finishing it”, is the fact that, in a world in which she had no one left, she let her emotions get the best of her when she discovered Joel’s lie, going so far as to not speak with him anymore and then, just when it seems like she’s about to forgive him and the two might rekindle their relationship, he is stripped away from her. She has basically wasted precious time she could’ve spent with the only father she’d had because she couldn’t bring herself to forgive him. So it’s not only just the fact that Abby killed Joel: it’s the fact that she is angered the most at herself for not using wisely the time she had with him. That’s why the Joel scene at the end of the game is so important to explain why she couldn’t let it all go, among the other reasons you mentioned in the video. TLOU2 is truly a story about two young women who will learn the hard way that, to overcome their traumas, they cannot use their fists or their knives: they need to forgive themselves and let go in order to break the blood cicle
The way I know I'm gonna CRY If I Watch this video. TLOU is sad, but I love Dina so much that this is the part that always breaks me 😭 Just watched the start, tearing up already, let's watch this, I can do it, I'm strong
My most anticipated video for the last 2 months!! Thank you for putting the time and care into making these analysis vids❤️ can’t wait to see so much more from your channel
You deserve a medal for this immaculate analysis! It offers considering the intentions, execution, and repercussions of each characters' actions through an empathic lens. I'd argue that's the main theme of the story: an exercise of empathy. We stand to lose those we love and parts of ourselves when we DONT choose compassion. Forgiveness is not a grace meant to redeem those who have hurt us, but to ease our own suffering. I wish those who claim P2 was objectively bad would watch this analysis. The duality and divisiveness is so clearly intentional. The uncomfortable feelings we experience with the characters' motivation are meant to challenge our own sense of morality and self-righteousness. Confronting that discomfort and fear directly is the only way we move past trauma. Because for better or worse it is part of us. Acceptance rather than avoidance is the only path forward.
As an Anxious attachment guy with an Avoidant attachment partner the scene where Dina confronts Ellie as she is packing to leave in search of Abby is soooo scary at a personal level. From the attempt at buying time and Ellie's rejection, to the breaking point with the low blow on Ellie and Ellie's reaction to just get going without saying a word it's so real it's scary. (Thankfully I do have access to therapy unlike Dina but I can really empathize with her in that scene). Also everyone who says that Dina was selfish for leaving Ellie behind at the end can fuck off, you're just blinded by your over admiration of Ellie.
27:54 this isn’t the only time ellie has tried to silence the topic of what joel did and why he was targeted. before ellie interrogates then kills nora she tries to deescalate the situation and try to reason with ellie that joel actions caused the death of so many people, not just at the hospital but also the deaths that probably happened since there was no cure but ellie just ignores her because as you said she doesn’t wanna gain empathy and try to understand what the salt lake crew were feeling about him
I love the interviews with Ashley and Shannon so much. Hearing their care and emotion made their scenes together even more impactful for me. They gave and put everything into these characters.
You made me want to play last of us part 2 and give it another shot, when it first came out I hated the game but watching your videos after 3 years of the game being out 💀, I decided to give the game a shot and I really enjoyed it thank you for your videos, I hope you have fun at your new job
I might end up saying this on every new video, but your videos have been incredible companion pieces to this franchise and every video is worth the wait. Congratulations on the new job and officially becoming a game writer! Will be awesome to finish a game and see your name in the credits
This video was rough to go through. I've always identified with Ellie but I've never realized how much I have in common with her and the coping mechanisms she's built up until now when I heard you read it out loud. I've always thought they got back together off screen because Ellie was wearing the bracelet but the way you describe the ending makes a lot more sense. Maybe it was just wishful thinking of me because I thought they were such a cute couple. There has to be a third game in this series. They need to make it a trilogi. I will get really disappointed if they don't. And I hope we still get to follow Ellie's story until her end. Either that they manage to make a “cure” or vaccine from Ellie's immunity or get to see her death. Fantastic video as always! You really did a great job with this! Really glad I found your channel and will be looking forward to future videos.
7:31 In the first game, innocence itself or being lost, is shown throughout the first game through giraffes and other things which makes ellies archetype being innocence, make a lot of sense to me
Excellent video and analysis. I loved how you threaded the connections to Ellie talking about Bill, being alone, and being a burden. I disagree with it being doomed from the start necessarily. I think there was definitely foreshadowing to what would happen and I really enjoyed watching you piece it together. I also think they will for sure reunite or something like that because they're both alive and your luck doesn't run out til you're dead. Joel and Tommy, and Joel and Ellie reconciled, so I don't see why Ellie and Dina wouldn't if she overcame her obsession and illness. All of their serious issues and communication problems occur after the inciting incident and all the ways that messed Ellie up. I would even say their other relationship/communication issues from before they got together occured before she reconciled with Joel. I think their issues are dependent on Ellie's internal conflict and that there is a chance for them now that Ellie has resolved it. But I guess we don't know that until they show us!
I want you to know how much I LOVE your channel, man! I have been obsessed with TLOU for years and have followed it for a long time. As an autistic person who loves it so much, I also analyze the character dynamics and aspects of the story deeply. It's my favorite thing to think about and go back to over and over again. I'm trying my hand at making analysis content, too-- I just want you to know how impressive it is to see yours! Your thoughts are very well organized and I can totally imagine how much effort you put into making this. It's like seeing all the things I think about and want to express verbalized in your videos! That makes me crazy envious LOL. I just wanted to give you my high compliments on your takes on these aspects of the game, how they all work together, and your application of different psychological theories and understanding of good character writing that you apply in your videos. It's refreshing to see a mature, in depth read of the different dynamics instead of being faced with the usual hate and unwillingness to see different sides that people get into surrounding the game. It's funny how the fandom is so prone to becoming involved in the cycles that the game warns us against... Anyways, videos like yours make me appreciate the nuance of the games even more, and I hope to one day be as good as you at organizing it all!
Fantastic analysis. On fucking point. I really appreciate your deep insight into their very complex relationship. You really ticked off all the details, all the underlying complexities. Phenomenal job. Loved watching this video. You can lose track of the initial interactions and their weight, especially in the later stages of this very long journey. So the way you went chronologically and used the specific moments to contextualise the other scenes made this all the more heavy and truly poignant. I love Both of them, but I cannot imagine them getting back together. I certainly do hope that they’ll meet once again, and certainly wish they’ll reconcile. This video really hit deep, especially from Th Farm onwards. Kudos♥️
Excellent analysis, spot on, I particularly appreciate the compassion for each of these wonderful characters, flaws and all. Excited to see what you're making next!
This is a pretty good video. Well edited and researched, doesn’t waste time despite the length - so many youtubers are failing at this these days just being redundant and overexplainy as hell, but this was well intentioned and delivered.
you’ve done it once again. i’m so moved by tlou part 1 and 2, and you’re channel made me appreciate the dialogue and scene even more than i already do. thank you for putting so much time and effort into these, you deserve so much recognition
Great analysis - especially around Dina. I thought she was a lovely ray of sunshine in the game but always felt a little flat and like a passenger until the very end so it’s very interesting to hear how you contextualise that behaviour and why she was the way she was.
I absolutely LOVED this video! The amount of details and undertones I missed is insane. This makes the story so much clear to me and in the end I am not so mad of Dina leaving. If possibly I would love to see you analize the ending scene where Ellie fights Abby! I also think a detail you might've missed (Or I didn't notice you mentioning it) is that because Ellie had 2 of her fingers bitten off she can't play the quitar well, the only thing that connected her to Joel is now gone too. Her biggest fear came true, she's alone now.
Thank you so much for this video! Not only did I understand why communication between them didn't work on a deeper level for Ellie and Dina, but it also made me realize how I relate to both of them in different ways, it made me more introspective, towards my emotions and relationships around me, and for that i'm really grateful ☺☺ I love all the work, effort and time you put into making such good content!
Really surprised to hear Ellie was categorised in the “innocent” archetype as I’m sure others were, but it actually makes a lot of sense when you think deeper about it
The way you described Dina's side of things hit so close to home :'( I feel I'm like her. I'm afraid to meet the same ending she had with Ellie (inevitably separation).
You make extremely wonderful and comprehensive videos. I hope that you consider doing this kind of content about other games as well in the future. Besides learning about writing and how to understand the nuances of this story, you also teach a lot about life in general.
omfg why am I crying??? Lol An amazing analysis of Dina, who most fans can easily surmise to be the "one good person" in the story, and break down her fatal flaws as well. She is truly lovable but clearly selfless to a fault and pushed herself way too far to care for a broken person. Her experiences and the way she expresses herself are so incredibly mirror opposite to how Ellie grew up and how she operates make them so fascinating to see together and her incredible charm can easily disguise the fact that she has her own issues that play a part in the demise of the relationship as well. I know I am certainly guilty of overlooking that! I can't wait to play again and take these details in. Also really love the analysis of Take On Me. Can gladly admit that always went right over my head. I just took it as Ellie's song of choice because of her obsession with old music 🥲 Can't wait for more! Keep on going! And congrats on your new role!
First of all lemme say thank you for this incredibly in-depth analysis! It described their relationship perfectly and you're right with saying that in the end what happened was good for the both of them. Dina needed a break from all the drama and trauma, and Ellie need to finally confront herself with hers for real this time. As much as the Farm scene always tears me apart emotionally, I do believe that it was the only option (beside actual suicide) for Ellie to have a chance at (inner) peace.. to some degree at least... As for Part III, I do see a chance there for Ellie and Dina, but it would take a lot of time and work on Ellie's side to gain back Dina's trust. I believe that Ellie wore the bracelet in the end because she finally realised that there is more to her life and that she can in fact have some happiness. She kept blaming herself for everything, for being immune, for not being able to prevent things, etc. I really want to see her happy if there's a Part III, preferably with Dina and JJ. However, there is a chance that she will sacrifice herself for the cure in the end as well. Would fit the rather dark theme of the lore better than a happy end, but who knows!
Yeah! I do hope they slowly reconcile throughout the third game. However, I don't think ellie should sacrifice herself for the cure, as that would undermine everything joel did for her.
@@kailennewman9881 I also do not want that to happen, but ND does have a tendency to make things dark and sad for us with this game 😭 However I could just as much see the third part be about Ellie finally realizing her worth besides being the immune one, finally letting go of her bad conscience and guilt. I could also see her and Abby‘s path cross again and circumstances forcing them to work together, maybe to find a new way for a cure or something like that, it‘d be a slow burn as well, because of their past though
This is an unbelievable amount of effort, talent and savvy going into this video. You are criminally under-viewed im so glad these videos are blowing up. Bravo
When Ellie says to Dina “I’m not like you” and Dina is like “HUH?! I put up with it for you and for him” I was so offended on Dina’s behalf. Ellie’s grief makes her extremely self centered and unempathetic to Dina (which makes sense but still makes me offended for Dina). Dina has gone through so much for Ellie and witnessed so much and all Ellie can say is “IM NOT LIKE YOU” and yeah she isn’t like Dina at all which dooms the relationship
I was so offended on Dinas' behalf too lol! I feel like that comment is truly a testament to how lacking the communication between the two of them has gotten. Ellie thinks Dina's living in sunshine and lollipops land while she is drowning in grief not realizing that Dina's experiencing the same thing she just doesn't have the luxury or really the ability to express it, out of concern for Ellie she's holding it together 😭
Awesome video my friend. I could talk to people for hours about the complexities and deaths of emotion that you have so eloquently and concisely conveyed in this video. I've had a very long and shit couple of months and I don't know how long it's gonna continue it doesn't show any sense of stopping any time soon but it's always nice to jump back into the world of the last of it's oddly really comfort to me because it came to me in a part of my life that was also extraordinarily difficult. So even though I'm aware that the timing is purely coincidental I'm appreciative of the distraction. It's nice to have something else to focus on when your life feels like it's turning a downward corner. As a man that we are all familiar with once said. No matter what keep finding something to fight for see with the next video.
Thank you all so much for your patience while I prepared this one! I did not anticipate it taking two whole months. The main reason it took so long is because I've been starting a new job and that has taken a lot of my energy. The good news is, I am now officially a game writer so I feel much more qualified to make these vids😅 I hope you enjoy it
Congrats on the new job!
No need to apologize!! We’re glad you’ve been focusing on your own personal life, but we are also glad to have you back! ❤
We will wait years if that's what it takes 🙏 congrats tho!
congratulations! really excited to get in to the video. I just happened to look up your channel right after upload, any chance you'll be announcing new videos on Twitter going forward?
@@tlou_explained congrats on the new job
PS Neil Druckmann gotta hit you up so bad
You have a deep understanding with this material and you’ll be perfect for the team for sure
Both Dina and Owen loved Ellie/Abby so much and tried hard to keep them away from a destructive path. But alas, both got pushed away. Not to mention Jessie/Mel becoming collateral damage in the process….
The parallels are so insane
@@venuiedeni guess that’s why abby’s collectible is a coin, she and ellie are the two different sides of the same problem
Wait.. that's another parallel between Ellie and Abby that I didn't even realized. It's actually true
@@user-xk7rb9qu8c JUSTICE FOR JESSE
ew dont even include owen. he cheated on his pregnant gf
I can’t believe people called Dina selfish for leaving at the end 😭
Probably the same people who are incapable of empathising with Abby 🫠
@@Jaesee yeah you didnt play tlou or you just didnt understand shit about this game
@@Jaesee Let’s not play. While Abby is sympathetic in some aspects, she still ruthlessly killed someone that the players loved (he deserved A form of punishment for his actions, but it doesn’t change nor undermine what the players feel, especially those who understood why Joel did what he did in the end), and she’s judged for it in the story (albeit for different reasons). She also causes Ellie, another character players love, a lot of grief, especially in that she and Joel couldn’t reconcile because of Abby’s actions and she ended up being the cause of her PTSD, all of which makes ABBY somewhat worthy of hatred from the PLAYERS’ perspective for understandable reasons. You can pretend otherwise, but it is what it is.
On the other hand, Dinah didn’t do anything worthy of hatred other than do what was best for her mental health and the health of her son. It sucks for Ellie, but again, it is what it is.
@Annavslv ??? I've played both games multiple times kid. TLOU2 is my favourite game ever made, actually my favourite piece of media ever made. Obviously I made a generalisation for the sake of making a joke, but I do believe that Abby as a character receives a disproportionate amount of hatred from some people, with some people refusing to engage with her perspective ALTOGETHER. To me, this is petty.
@pathetic2399 I understand your point, my comment wasn't meant literally but was simply drawing comparisons between a players limited sense of empathy towards characters holding an alternative perspective from the one we have been presented with (i.e. playing as Ellie in TLOU2 and Joel in TLOU1). It's not that deep obviously, just a thought I had haha
i can’t imagine what it’s like to care for a deeply mentally ill person while also battling with your own trauma… separating was truly the best for both of them
I work in domiciliary care and as sad as it sounds it's actually somewhat common. Not just for workers but for families of some of my clients. Parts of the dynamics and relationships in this game are surprisingly familiar. It's great writing.
As someone who was with a person who was with another person who was deeply mentally ill while also battling trauma (partly from the relationship. The mental ilness and trauma describe us both, actually. I could relate more with Ellie since I tend to be a stone wall), it's pretty fucking difficult and heart breaking. That said, the choice to let go and go separate ways has resulted in me beginning the process of my healing, and for hers as well. That dynamic is so deeply toxic and there is nothing either party can do to "fix" the other. That shit has to be realized and at least started individually. It's painful, but the catharsis that comes with the choice to heal is truly something. I remember playing this game again after the end of our relationship, and their dynamic and specifically the end when she returns to the farm hit on a whole new deeper level. There's a lot of hope and positivity in the subtext of that scene to me.
Who’s mentally Ill? Ellie
it fucking sucks😆
It's skibiti not cool...
Ellie had a best/worst day of her life with Riley too. I wonder if that was intentional?
the gays just can't win :(
@@tlou_explainedi cant believe people call this game woke. Every gay character suffers the most in this series. (Besides Joel who probably suffered the most)
@@irohmoua5820 because queer people existing = woke
@@irohmoua5820 Come on now, Joel is a queer icon
@@irohmoua5820people of color too! I think they’re trying harder in the second game but the first game…….. yikes
Maybe im late to this realization but the fact that Ellie and Dina’s first time together, is the same day she saw Joel being killed in front of her meant that those two events will always be connected, even on a subconscious level. She could never have stayed with Dina because it will have always brought back that day and that traumatic moment.
Damn, when you put it like that…. it really just shows this relationship was doomed from the jump.
Holy moly. Truly brings another layer to them being “doomed from the start”. 🥲
@@andrewsanusi8462 its easy to forget that because so much happens so fast .. 😔
another thing, she could also be subconsciously blaming Dina in a way, since it’s them on patrol looking for Joel and Tommy, the fact that ellie possibly feels like, with Dina she wasted time since she knew Joel was already missing when they left for patrol. It could add to her frustration especially later on when Dina had to tell her she was pregnant, Ellie could feel it was again, more wasted time.
@@TrashPanda.loveTrash
I think maybe subconsciously Ellie blames herself for Joel's death. Since Joel went out looking for her, had ellie and Dina not snuck off things would've been WAY different
When Ellie tells Dina that she doesn't believe in luck, I also always interpreted it as something she took after her experience with David. Ellie had told him that they had gotten lucky, dealing with those infected effectively, and David told her "No such thing as luck" and "Everything happens for a reason". I don't think that Ellie fully believed that, but this is a point in her life where she's completely leaned on her cynical side and she might be taking David's philosophy because she can't find herself to be optimistic. Maybe even out of spite to feelings of guilt she has with being happy and/or optimistic. It's almost like a knee jerk reaction to hope, but I find it interesting that she's almost directly echoing David there because the last time she spoke about luck, it was moments before turning that around with David's ominous philosophy, followed by the most traumatic thing that happened to Ellie prior to the second game - which was her killing of David. The loss of Ellie's innocence, and one of the first instances of a cycle of violence.
Also, and I don't remember this very clear but I'm pretty sure that Joel used to frequently make subtle comments about luck, such as that they survived by sheer luck or that luck runs out. Tess said that their luck would run out sooner or later when she got infected too. Both of those characters ended up having their luck run out, and so did David, who didn't believe in it. It's too much of a vague concept that Ellie can't afford right now, it could blind her in her conviction to kill Abby by placing the outcome up to fate, when she wants to do it herself and control the situation, hence to why she denies understanding the reasoning for killing Joel. Ellie also survived once out of pure unadulterated luck, with her immunity, and it turned out to be completely meaningless (despite trying to find meaning with her death) and all hope she had for a future burned into sorrow and pain. I find it interesting how Ellie used to react to the concept of luck in the first game, compared to the second game, and how jaded she has become to it to the point of completely denying and opposing it, and whether she realises it or not maybe she even agrees with David now, just like she came to understand and agree with Bill after her experiences. Luck is meaningless, everything happens for a reason. And she will become that reason that will kill Abby.
this is literally the most thought out thing I've read in a long ass time, every point and thing you said in general made so much sense.
Dude I’m so happy I saw this cause I thought the exact same thing when I first played the game. I didn’t notice the change of thought for Bill tho so thanks for pointing that out too
@@destinystribling5269 Thank you very much!
@@The_hero_of_Hyrule_ The change of thought with Bill was mentioned in the video, and I didn't notice it either until then. The change with the concept of luck and David I noticed since my first ever viewing back in 2020, so I thought to mention it since I haven't seen anyone comment on it. I think it can get even deeper than that because I almost think it's a theme in the first TLOU, if not both games. It seems that characters keep bringing up luck in one way or another, which is interesting to think since it's a world about such bleak survival
This is so poetic omg. I love the last of us 2 no matter how many people I have to argue with about it
I always thought Ellie's "I don't think you do" in reference to how she'd rate the kiss was her way of confessing almost, that she'd rate it so high that it'd change things between her and Dina and scare her off
Me too!!
Exactly
I took it as Ellie being coy and trying not to give away anything. Even when she wanted to open up to Dina, she was still instinctively closed off.
thats not how ellie meant it but that was definitely the truth. symbolism.
If she did mean it that way, Dina didn't take it that way. Dina responds like it's a joking insult which I think is the intent.
"Beefing with the older generation"
**flips off Bill** 😂😂
gay vs lesbian
@@Freshlydeliveredegg legends say that's where the beef started
@@Freshlydeliveredegg crying i didnt even make connection lmaooo
@@tlou_explained I’m happy that bill got a happy ending in the series but I wanted to see them beef so badly 💀
Dina was pregnant but she still went for the revenge trip just because of Ellie. Yet the moment Ellie knows that she is pregnant, Ellie call her a burden... Dina is the best partner you can ask for, supportive, living, caring... Ellie has a lot of lesson to learn
To be fair, Ellie had a point too. Risking the life of your baby is pretty selfish.
ellie was right tho
@@cancon901sure, but without Dina, Ellie wouldn’t have had any info on the WLF. Dina is the one that mapped out the WLF strongholds by listening to their radio. Not to mention Ellie would’ve most likely died without Dina.
@@stevenburrows240 doesn’t matter what dina did, point is ellie warned her beforehand that she did not have to go. dina should’ve automatically valued the possibility she was pregnant over a choice ellie did not force her to make. im not sayin dina is useless, but a baby is more important than ur girlfriends revenge mission any day.
@@cancon901 I mean, she didn’t realize it until it was already too late. Also, given the traumatic experience and grieving going on, it’s more understandable that she joined. Story is about how trauma and all that does affect your thinking
The way Ashley played Ellie during the final breakup scene was heart wrenching. I got such an overwhelming sense that Ellie felt completely powerless in that moment and compelled to leave to find Abby. It wasn't about wanting revenge as much as feeling it was the only thing she could possibly do to make her pain stop. It would either stop, or she would die trying. I'm convinced of Ellie had decided to stay with Dina, she probably would have taken her own life out of desperation before long. She was at the bottom of the abyss and the only way out was through.
I think some irrational/illogical part of her brain was saying to her.
"Joel sacrificed the world for you, and yet you won't even go finish this mess you started. Tommy lost everything to help you, Jesse died helping you, and Joel gave up the world to save YOU"
It finally dawned on me! Ellie wearing Dina's Hamsa charm is *not* proof positive they got back together off screen. I don't personally think they did. The final scene with Ellie and Joel, she says, "I don't know if I can forgive you. But I'm willing to try." (Or words to that effect)
I think the charm at the end signifies that Dina hasn't forgiven Ellie for abandoning her and JJ at the ranch, but she's willing to try.
I think it more symbolizes that Ellie has regained hope. What happened with Abby at the beach finally resolved her grief for Joel. She may not believe in luck, but it represents to her and that there are good things in life. I don't think there will be a future for her with Dina, but it can be a reminder of those good things that are worth living for after all.
@@Cleretic This is exactly what I was about to comment. I don't think she's necessarily wearing it with the hope of making amends with Dina. But she's hit her rock bottom and come out the other side, and has found a measure of acceptance regarding everything that has happened - including her own immunity. She's started to let go of her guilt and shame; started to accept Joel's final wish for her, which was simply that she get to grow up, and have a life, and live it. Her wearing the bracelet is, I think, a symbol of the fact that she's ready to try to get better, to try and be better, and to accept that she is allowed to have good things in her life, allowed to hope, and allowed to be loved. She's lost her chance with Dina - but she's ready to try to be the kind of person who deserves the things Dina and Joel wanted for her.
Stop I’m going to cry…this was very well said.
This comment made me feel better, thank you pookie💕
Disagree, I think the game implies that they are done deal. I think too many people are putting too much stock in this exchange of the bracelet and when Ellie isn't wearing and isn't. For all we know she couldn't have been wearing it in Cali because she didn't have time to pack it because she was rushing to leave, or maybe she didn't think she deserved to wear it for abandoning them
But after choosing the right path and not choosing revenge she feels more deserving to wear it
And I have said this elsewhere but the biggest indicator that there has been 0 conversation between Ellie and Dina since Cali is that we would have seen it. Do you really think Naughty Dog, the current king of relationship drama scenes in video games are really going to skip the Dina and Ellie reunion after Ellie abandoned them... like really?
The reason why Dina goes to Seattle with Ellie, is the same reason she leaves the farm with JJ in the end: because she couldn’t bare the thought of spending the entire time Ellie was gone wondering whether or not she’d died.
1:27:33
A weird note, Dina kept the portraits of herself and JJ that Ellie painted and signed which was a super interesting detail.
Maybe Dina wants to cling to the idea that Ellie might return or it’ll essentially be an effigy to remember Ellie. Interested about your thoughts.
I also noticed that and that she left Ellie a clean set of sheets folded up on the bed.
Making me wish I'd expanded on this more! But the notion of Dina taking some things and leaving others behind "just in case" Ellie came back, is fascinating- and shows at the end of the day Dina still loved and cared for her, even if she couldn't wait for her.
@@tlou_explainedI think it would make everyone happy while still being thematically relevant if they end up together, but I'm also huffing that copium so idk 😭
Idk. Wanting a portrait of yourself and your child from an old relationship is pretty normal and doesn’t necessarily mean anything.
It’s probably pretty rare to have portraits done in the first place. Probably a memento more than anything else.
@@meg0769but this is the last of us. every detail, piece of dialog, action, EVERYTHING is thought out with an insane amount of detail. especially considering the conditions of ellie and dina’s relationship, i really doubt it is as simple as just “wanting a portrait”
I'VE NEVER CLICKED ON ANYTHING SO FAST IN MY ENTIRE LIFE
ME TOO OMG 😭😭😭🙏🙏🙏
FRR
It was literally first on my RUclips and I said YEP
SAME!
SAMEEE 😭😭😭💀💀💀
When I first experienced TLOU2, I felt that Dina was a very flat character with no goals of her own. She was only there to follow Ellie and be the love interest. It wasn't until their last scene at the farm when she stood up to Ellie that I felt like she became a character of her own, completely independent of Ellie. Your essay is not only a great analysis of their relationship, but is also a wonderful character analysis of Dina. She hadn't lived for herself for so long, and in turn wasn't her own person, until she broke away from Ellie.
Same i dodnt like dina tbh she was kindve annoying
I’m glad I’m not the only one that feels this way. Dina just didn’t feel interesting as much as she should’ve been. But that final scene with her made me see where she stands and made me unlike her more.
I felt this was more a fault of Naughty Dog, Dina and Ellie didn't have any chemistry really? It felt very rushed and I didn't feel anything for then either. Riley felt a lot more natural and it was sweet seeing their relationship. Ellie and Dina just went from friends to randomly hooking up and suddenly they're the love of each other's lives? They just wanted to insert a love interest for Ellie and put zero effort into building it up.
@@persephone3309 side characters in Part 2 is the one area that Part 2 doesn’t do better than the first game. And yeah that’s on Naughty Dog, BUT, to be fair with how much is in Part 2 and what they tried to do, I can forgive them. People have complained about the pacing and length since launch week, now imagine an even longer game. There’s a lot more moving gears in Part 2, so it makes sense not all the gears got enough time to shine.
@@persephone3309 they had feelings for eachother beforehand but it was just a crush I think but them both being single gave them the opportunity to deeper their relationship. they kissed and then the next day they hooked up so that's not out of the blue at all. its actually pretty normal to hook up before dating and considering they were friends for a while and had crushes on each other it makes sense. there was also a time skip between joels death and ellie and dina starting their journey.
I want to point out that the line is “Where you go, I go.” This makes it an almost direct quote from the Old Testament, which means it’s probably intentionally meaningful on an even deeper level to Dina. The full quote is “Where you go, I will go. Your God will be my God. Your people, my people.” This means the cyclic nature is also here with chosen family, as Abby says “you’re my people!” again removing a single word from the original quote.
Great connection!
Abby’s“You’re my people” makes me cry every time, idk why 😭
At the end of the day, they found something to keep fighting for :’)
babe wake up TLOU explained just dropped
17:50 I always interpreted Ellie’s “I don’t think you do” to Dina’s question to rate the kiss as her being serious for once, meaning she thought the kiss was amazing. And that she thinks it meant more to her than to Dina. Which would also fit into the whole trying to be flirty but also being insecure thing. Dina’s reaction would then just be her way of telling Ellie that she reciprocates her feelings. I think 🧚
Especially afterwards when hearing Dina rating the kiss lower than Ellie thought it would. This is exhibited when Dina said a 6 that would be a reason for someone who does struggle with feeling insecure to be even more insecure about themselves and how they are perceived by someone they have feelings for. I can see that Ellie taking that as an indication that the kiss meant more to her than Dina and also used as a response to Dina’s question.
i feel like the scene where both ellie and dina are on the floor after the fight with abby says so much about their situation. to me, dina being under a bright white light represents how she has more in life to experience. more opportunities. the wood planks under her show how she's "protected" and has support. ellie on the other hand, has a red light over her and is on the bare floor. most of the time red lights represent a more serious or dangerous tone. her being on a naked floor shows how her worst fear came true. she's alone
I think when Ellie tells Dina she doesn't think she would actually want to know how she would rate the kiss, i don't think she's teasing at all. It always seemed more to me that she means she doesn't think Dina would want to know how much she actually _liked_ it, because she's scared Dina is just messing around and isn't actually interested in her. That's exactly what i would have done. I share a lot of similar personality traits with Ellie, including her flaws to some degree. One of those is never believing I'm good enough for anything or anyone.
I think the fact that it could go either way IS the tease. if I were Dina I would be so frustrated lol. like what do you MEANNNN
Has anyone noticed the reoccurring appearances of moths mostly linking to Ellies character? I think it's a symbol of her still 'looking for the light' :'(
I just wanted to add something to the scene where Dina first is showing her signs of morning sickness in game, she mentions the smell being what caused it, and I don't think she was necessarily lying in that moment. Smells can trigger nausea in those who are pregnant because of the hormone fluctuation. In my playthrough, I took this as foreshadowing and if you look back at Ellie's journal entries during their trip to Seattle, it becomes very obvious that she is dealing with morning sickness to the player as well. But that's ONLY if you chose to read those entries when given the chance.
Ellie may be immune to cordyceps but she is not immune to the queer relationship you have at 19 that ruins your life
@@madelynricket that first wlw situationship is like a smack with a golfclub
@@tlou_explained LMAOOO FOUL
WE'RE BEING FED BABES
Omg the parallel of saving her mother 😮 I never thought about that before
Trace explores tlou channel already told about this way back
it gave me CHILLS
The Tommy video completely blew my mind and I am ready for it to be exploded again
Meeeee
55:04 did anyone else noticed that Dina looks like she’s standing in the light while Ellie’s side is grey and slowly turning dark?
38:32 - 39:15 I love this part. Specifically because it had me thinking of the line Abby says to Ellie later in the game. “We let you go. And you *wasted* it.”
All those lives Joel took in the hospital. The innocent ones among them. They didn’t get that chance from Joel. Abby openly gave Ellie that chance.
In the first game Joel says “You’ll only come after her.” And shoots Marlene. We can assume he had a similar mindset throughout his, for lack of better words, “rampage” in the hospital.
Joel “cleaning things up.” did wipe the chance of Ellie being looked for, but it put a wanted poster square on his forehead. Something he definitely doesn’t regret.
Abby *not* “cleaning things up.” in the case of Ellie and Tommy, left a wanted poster square on her forehead. Something she later comes to regret.
I could talk more in depth about these decisions because it suddenly lit up a fire in my brain. That feeling of connecting dots. But I may be way under qualified. As my only experience with this game was a solid 4 years ago via RUclips playthroughs.
I just think the lines; “We let you go. And you *wasted* it.” And “No. You’ll only come after her.” between two characters who are undeniably paralleling each feels incredibly well done.
(When Abby’s friends are arguing about finishing off Tommy and Ellie, Abby’s expression throughout the whole conversation, I believe, holds so much more weight when we think about it from this perspective I mentioned.)
Then again like I said, I’m severely out of the circle when it comes to TLOU2 to confidently make any statements about the characters actions and inactions in an analytical way. With a chance of being wrong being greatly high haha.
Hello I so get the feeling of listening to something that connects the dots in your head even if it might make no sense to somebody else but I want to hear your full thoughts please and thank you
"You'd just come after her"
Get it right
Both Troy and Pedro said it right
@@lilac_rain3855 I definitely will get things wrong! So as much love as I have for this idea I’m probably better off waiting until I re experience the series to talk about it. So maybe I’ll finish off my train of thought and come back to this comment when I’ve done that.
Sorry I’m leaving you off so badly.
@@Tallahassee21 You just proved my point.
@@The1andonlysharpshooter I wasn't denying your point, it's actually quite sound and I agree with you, but the line is wrong, not the sentiment, the wording. It's like getting the "tears in rain" quote wrong.
I was one of those people who clung to the idea that maybe Ellie and Dina got back together in the end, or at least are trying to rekindle a relationship. But with this video putting into perspective just how much Dina sacrificed for Ellie, i really comprehend it is sooo important and necessary that she left for her and her child’s sake. The house may have held some precious memories for both Ellie and Dina, but it was also really isolating, and Dina moving out should be the start of her healing process. You can’t help another unless you put your own oxygen mask on, as you said. TYYY for this amazing video!🫶🏼
some of the cut scenes of the farm and what we see of ellie on the farm makes me think that she primarily hunts for the family, which is an interesting role to analyze, especially when compared to dina. it feels almost familiar to the nuclear family, with a homemaker (dina) and a breadwinner (ellie), which, if you extrapolate, puts ellie in the traditionally masculine role and dina in the traditionally feminine. this sort of foreshadows their conflict, with ellies emotional distance and dinas nurturing personality clashing.
on top of this, hunting for ellie makes a lot of sense. it allows her to be away for hours on end, without dina to worry about. if she doesnt eat or gets hurt, it doesn't burden dina. if she has a flashback, it won't hurt jj.
this might be a bit of a stretch, but i also wonder if hunting animals is a way for her to try and suppress her emotions. my main reasoning for this is that in part one, deer (one of the most common hunted animals) are reminders of her greatest trauma (at the time) in the form of david and the winter section. that, and nature in general (mostly in part one) is representative of hope and the potential for the world. in a thematic sense, hunting and killing animals could be a way to try and ignore/shut down her trauma without actually dealing with it, and also how she deals with the fact that she feels like she has no future. along with all of this, the only other time we see ellie hunting is in the opening of the winter section of part one, which you can argue is her lowest point in that game.
Another incredible video! Probably my favourite yet.
Another sign that Ellie and Dina were doomed from the start is the fact that the track that plays when they kiss in Eugene’s basement is literally called “It Can’t Last (Home)”.
Their relationship was bound to break from the very moment they sealed the deal; the home they set up together was always going to fall apart.
I AM FUCKING SOBBING. the amount of love and care put into every word and edit is so apparent and this was so worth the wait!!
You are by far my favorite analyzer on youtube! Your insight into the characters is so well done. I still remember my first playthrough, getting to the empty farmhouse, I was immediately in tears once Ellie walked in, but what really destroyed me was walking into the bedroom. Dina hung Ellie's jacket up next to the bed, and folded up sheets and a blanket and left a pillow. I still can't tell if it was a kind gesture in case Ellie returned, or a passive-aggressive jab inviting her to sleep in the emptyness she caused. Either way made me sob. I'll never forget it.
I'm only 13 minutes in and this is ALREADY one of THE MOST insightful takes on tlou2
20 minutes in and I just subscribed, I LOVE these types of videos
I love and miss them but I know dina could not hang on if she continued to put up with Ellie, She was so strong for her and JJ but Ellie didn't show her gratitude by letting go of Abby. It hurt to watch Dina leave at first but I grew to understand that Dina needed to realise that she mattered too and she couldn't be patient forever. That's why she is my favourite character, she is mentally mature and tried her best to make Ellie feel loved even though she could not stop Ellie from going down the rabbit hole of revenge when she agreed to finish it.
I love love love when you insert clips from the tv show too. Neil and Craig added context to these characters in the show that directly influences how I view the game. I appreciate that you don’t ignore the additional material
@@mishfishy7645 I'm sooo looking forward to seeing what they do with Dina in the show
I think that Dina being so kindly dismissive and forgiving of Ellie's worse moments is probably another big part of why Ellie felt the need to leave. In the scene where she has the ptsd episode in the barn Ashley says that that's a defining moment where Ellie thinks she's even put her family in danger and it'd be better for her to leave, and for Dina to make a joke and forgive it so easily, and then try to protect her when Tommy is (in Ellie's mind probably) rightfully mad about her going back on an important promise she's made... Yeah, that coupled with her already low self esteem, lack of getting better, etc. She definitely felt she didn't deserve the forgiveness she was getting, and probably even that it was unfair of her to stay when she knew better. Knew she wasn't getting better while Dina was waiting, knew she wasn't worth the wait. Dina has pushed through every moment by silently reassuring and comforting Ellie, letting her work through things alone, but always being there, and Ellie has been aware of it, but she personally goes through those moments full of guilt, feeling alone in her misery, and realizing how easily (to her) Dina pushed through it.
I always like to point out how at the end when Ellie visits the farm house, asides from her belongings being in her art studio, there is a set of clean sheets on top of the bed! And I just think this is so Dina, she knew and was hoping Ellie would be back and even tho she wasn't going to be there waiting for that, she still thought about it and cared enough to leave essential things around, just in case.
okay i see you with that anxious ellie finger twiddle parallel at 7:45 and right as youre talking about her being an innocent, still the same kid she ever was. soooo smart
I really wanna see a breakdown of Maria and Tommy's relationship too because it feels so similar to Ellie and Dina as well. And a analysis of how the different character types of Jesse, Dina, and Ellie were sort of doomed as well as a group. Jesse always felt like the doomed level head, the sturdy empathetic and critic to me, his death made sense and so did his absence in the game up until we meet him again. Like the true "compas" everyone failed to acknowledge, or an option that was never considered.
Im curious about this, thats interesting
1:00:30 when you made the connection of that scene with Joel using the same tactic on Ellie,.. my mind was BLOWN. These seemingly not that significant connections really keep amplifying just how much Ellie subconsciously tries to emulate Joel. That man literally shaped her.
Incredible analysis. When this game first came out I was a bit too immature to fully grasp the complexities of their relationship; I mostly viewed it as something idyllic and dreamed of having a partner like Dina. Looking back four years later it’s interesting to see that they are actually far from being perfectly healthy, and this video did an amazing job explaining all the intricate nuances of these wonderfully flawed and human characters
Agreed.
I was the same way
This is a magisterial analysis of the harmartia of Ellie and Dina's relationship which I think does justice to the depth and sophistication of the storytelling and character development in the game. Many thanks for this.
A point about Ellie wearing the bracelet and, I agree, returning to the farm in the hopes of getting back together with Dina. In my view, the central message of the story is of the importance of relationality in giving us a sense of meaning. As Druckmann stated, the story is about love. It is a narrative about hate to make a statement about love. Ellie's anger at Joel stems from her perception that he robbed her life of its purpose and meaning. Her anger at Abby is just as much about losing the chance to forgive Joel for that as it is about the fact of the murder of someone she loved.
The final scene with Joel emphasises that, yes, Joel's motivations were selfish in saving her but that also he saved her so that she might live. Joel found meaning through his relationship with her and, in turn, Ellie will find meaning in her life the same way we all do- through our loves. Our community, our romantic relationships, our friendships etc. So much of the story, as I think is ably pointed out in this video, is seeing Ellie going through all of the adolescent rites of passage whereby we discover the importance and joy of recognition from significant others.
That is the journey Abby goes through. She is still haunted by the loss of her relationship with her father after meting out revenge on Joel. A quest which cost her Owen, someone she loved and who loved her in return. It is the relationship she develops with Lev that heals her, that gives her purpose and meaning. Just as it had done with Joel as regards Ellie in the first game.
Ultimately, Ellie was surrounded by loving relationships that gave her life meaning- Joel, Tommy, Dina, Jessie, JJ. Her anger at losing her sense of meaning and purpose and her anger towards Joel for taking it from her were misplaced. What really gives us purpose is the role we play in other people's lives and the roles they play in ours. Ellie had to lose all of that to see that. That is the importance of the bracelet, and of the final flashback with Joel where he asks her about Dina and affirms that he would save Ellie again if put back in that situation.
I think that is what ultimately makes this narrative a great piece of art. It takes a particularistic narrative in a contrived context to make a point about the universal human condition. What makes Ellie's life purposeful and meaningful is not her humanity-saving potential, but something very ordinary that is true of all of us. It is that, by sheer virtue of the fact that we live, we enrich the lives of other people who, in turn, enrich ours.
It is a very simple message but a profound and powerful one and has elements of the Talmudic concept, with which Dina would be well familiar, of 'whomsoever saves one life, saves the world entire'. Ellie does not have to save humanity any more than the rest of us do. We save the world in being the joy of any other human being's life. We are the world entire to them.
Beautifully put ❤
35:00, I feel like this is a very important point to remember because even when watching the gameplay, I could tell that Dina wasn't 100% into the mission. Obviously, Ellie would be more incensed than anyone else but Dina was really just along for the ride.
Yeah, I never got the idea she was really into it either. Dina wanted to watch Ellie’s back since there was no talking her out of it. I also think it’s a similar case with Owen going with Abby to Jackson.
@@kalex270 That's a good parallel! Another comment talked about how both Owen and Dina tried to steer Abby and Ellie away from their revenge, acting as moral guides and anchors, only to end up being pushed away causing Ellie and Abby to isolate themselves and miss out on that relationship! Man, I love TLoU pt.2
Not only was that a 1.5hour masterpiece but we got one if not TWO whole new video ideas teased
your videos are some of the best character analyses i’ve ever seen. i hate when a video claims to be an “analysis” but is really just a detailed recap. you really go above and beyond in order to understand the character’s perspectives and motivations, and you take the complex characters naughty dog created and make them feel even more human and real. it’s like you unspool the yarn that is a character in order to help others understand them on such a deep level. fantastic work and i will forever be a fan!!!!!!!
IF TLOU_EXPLAINED HAS ZERO FANS I AM DEAD
What I love about TLOU, especially TLOU2, is that months to even years later, I still learn new things about the game I never noticed or thought of before. The intro you had with "You go, I go, end of story" and how that matches with the end of the game just blew my mind. I miss Dina, I wish we had gotten more time with her in the early sections of the game.
i haven't finished watching this video yet but the beginning is already so good! Amazing way to flip the meaning of "if u go, i go. End of story" im emo
Genuinely one of the best analyses I've seen. It also came at such a perfect time for me, as I've been thinking about the toxicity of their relationship for a while now. But you looked at it way better than i could have, with so many details i missed. I agree it's a massive shame that dialogue during capitol hill is missable. I've played the game 7 times and never knew it existed, and it's such a gut punch knowing their full story. Thanks for such an excellent video
1:22:45 THANK YOU everytime i see a video essay on part 2 and they talk about the final conversation between ellie and dina they never mention this part, dina mentioning joel and jessie in that way was a line that needed to be crossed but in that moment it shouldn’t have and the fact that it was only pushed ellie to go more than it would make her stay
That heart with D+E looks like the word DIE. Maybe a foreshadow that their love or relationship will Die.
Man, Naughty Dog really cranked the subtlety up to 11 when presenting their characters, didn't they? The original game certainly had its moments, but Part II takes it to a whole other level.
WAKE UP BABE TLOU EXPLAINED POSTED
I've been waiting for this for weeks I'm so hyped
I would add that when Ellie says "I can't sleep. I can't eat," what she means is that she can't live like that anymore. She feels like there are only two possible ways out. Either she kills Abby and maybe gets better, or she dies and is released from all the trauma and pain she's carrying.
i'm back after finishing the video and this was, as i've said for most of your analyses, incredible. i feel like so many in the tlou fanbase overlook how toxic dina and ellie's relationship was from the very start. how stunted they were in communicating and how ellie assumed things of dina without actually hearing her thoughts. as well as the parallels with how ellie is trying to fill the hole in herself that joel left by behaving like him, becoming him in some of the worst ways through the manipulative tactics he'd used on her before. people idolize her and joel's relationship the same way they do her and dina's, imo.
regardless of where the series goes in the future, i hope we get some hints as to where dina and jj ended up, and i hope they're both well. like you said, they (and ellie!) deserve a happier ending.
The way i checked your channel every day for this😭😭😭😭
I’ve played TLOU2 at least 3 times and never came across the foreshadow dialogue about Ellie mentioning sick/injured people being a burden.. WOW! My perspective on why Dina held out from telling Ellie for so long made sense as soon as I heard that foreshadow….
It’s amazing how much I still learn from this game with every playthrough and video I watch. The level of editing and detail in this video and every other one of yours is evident to your passion for this f*cking amazing game/story & every video is 1000% worth the wait every time. Sending love and cannot wait for the next video 😘❤xx
This is by far my favorite TLOU analyzation that I’ve seen. I really appreciate the time you take to fully back up both your argument whilst counter arguing at the same time. Plus all of the journal entry readings and clips of Ellie that I’ve never seen to accompany that- I can really see how much time and effort you put into this. I feel that much of the backlash to this game is quite easy to disprove, and not only were you able to tie in themes from both games having heavy interactions between them in their relationship, but you were able to point out things that I haven’t even thought about or heard before that only strengthend the games story. I loved how you approached Dina’s backstory, and I truly feel more tied to these characters and who they are then I was before. My appreciation for this game and its art has only grown and I feel that your videos do that best at partaking in this growth. You’re knowledge as a writer definitely comes through in your makings than other videos where the writing is seen as mere cheap manipulation. Keep up the good work!! The wait is always worth it 😉 I’m also glad to see someone feel and appreciate these games and relationships as much as I do, from writer to writer!
I've been waiting for this one. Your essays are some of the best TLOU related content I've seen on this platform. Not only are your insights into the art of storytelling always fascinating, but I've seen few who have grasped the incredible depth of this game'S narrative quite as well as you. Thank you for this one in advance, I'm sure it was worth the wait. ♥♥
I have just discovered your channel today, and it’s so refreshing to finally see someone else beside me who defends this masterpiece of game. I love how you were able to analyse in such a deep way even the missable conversations, and how you managed to let everyone see how TLOU rhymes in terms of themes, scenes, etc.
On the surface, this might seem a revenge game, but it’s actually a forgiveness game: what keeps Ellie fixated on killing Abby, on “finishing it”, is the fact that, in a world in which she had no one left, she let her emotions get the best of her when she discovered Joel’s lie, going so far as to not speak with him anymore and then, just when it seems like she’s about to forgive him and the two might rekindle their relationship, he is stripped away from her. She has basically wasted precious time she could’ve spent with the only father she’d had because she couldn’t bring herself to forgive him. So it’s not only just the fact that Abby killed Joel: it’s the fact that she is angered the most at herself for not using wisely the time she had with him. That’s why the Joel scene at the end of the game is so important to explain why she couldn’t let it all go, among the other reasons you mentioned in the video.
TLOU2 is truly a story about two young women who will learn the hard way that, to overcome their traumas, they cannot use their fists or their knives: they need to forgive themselves and let go in order to break the blood cicle
I'm so sorry that this video is getting limited ads. You deserve better for all your hard work. Super thoughtful and meaningful video, thank you.
The way I know I'm gonna CRY If I Watch this video. TLOU is sad, but I love Dina so much that this is the part that always breaks me 😭
Just watched the start, tearing up already, let's watch this, I can do it, I'm strong
My most anticipated video for the last 2 months!! Thank you for putting the time and care into making these analysis vids❤️ can’t wait to see so much more from your channel
You deserve a medal for this immaculate analysis! It offers considering the intentions, execution, and repercussions of each characters' actions through an empathic lens. I'd argue that's the main theme of the story: an exercise of empathy. We stand to lose those we love and parts of ourselves when we DONT choose compassion. Forgiveness is not a grace meant to redeem those who have hurt us, but to ease our own suffering.
I wish those who claim P2 was objectively bad would watch this analysis. The duality and divisiveness is so clearly intentional. The uncomfortable feelings we experience with the characters' motivation are meant to challenge our own sense of morality and self-righteousness. Confronting that discomfort and fear directly is the only way we move past trauma. Because for better or worse it is part of us. Acceptance rather than avoidance is the only path forward.
Your analysis video series is my comfort series. Hope they keep coming
As an Anxious attachment guy with an Avoidant attachment partner the scene where Dina confronts Ellie as she is packing to leave in search of Abby is soooo scary at a personal level. From the attempt at buying time and Ellie's rejection, to the breaking point with the low blow on Ellie and Ellie's reaction to just get going without saying a word it's so real it's scary. (Thankfully I do have access to therapy unlike Dina but I can really empathize with her in that scene).
Also everyone who says that Dina was selfish for leaving Ellie behind at the end can fuck off, you're just blinded by your over admiration of Ellie.
27:54 this isn’t the only time ellie has tried to silence the topic of what joel did and why he was targeted. before ellie interrogates then kills nora she tries to deescalate the situation and try to reason with ellie that joel actions caused the death of so many people, not just at the hospital but also the deaths that probably happened since there was no cure but ellie just ignores her because as you said she doesn’t wanna gain empathy and try to understand what the salt lake crew were feeling about him
I love the interviews with Ashley and Shannon so much. Hearing their care and emotion made their scenes together even more impactful for me. They gave and put everything into these characters.
The quality of your content is insane, you truly take the story of this game to a whole.new level
You made me want to play last of us part 2 and give it another shot, when it first came out I hated the game but watching your videos after 3 years of the game being out 💀, I decided to give the game a shot and I really enjoyed it thank you for your videos, I hope you have fun at your new job
I might end up saying this on every new video, but your videos have been incredible companion pieces to this franchise and every video is worth the wait. Congratulations on the new job and officially becoming a game writer! Will be awesome to finish a game and see your name in the credits
At first I thought it was bad writing that Dina didn't object to Ellie's quest, but your analysis helped me understand why it actually made sense
This video was rough to go through. I've always identified with Ellie but I've never realized how much I have in common with her and the coping mechanisms she's built up until now when I heard you read it out loud.
I've always thought they got back together off screen because Ellie was wearing the bracelet but the way you describe the ending makes a lot more sense. Maybe it was just wishful thinking of me because I thought they were such a cute couple.
There has to be a third game in this series. They need to make it a trilogi. I will get really disappointed if they don't. And I hope we still get to follow Ellie's story until her end. Either that they manage to make a “cure” or vaccine from Ellie's immunity or get to see her death.
Fantastic video as always! You really did a great job with this! Really glad I found your channel and will be looking forward to future videos.
7:31 In the first game, innocence itself or being lost, is shown throughout the first game through giraffes and other things which makes ellies archetype being innocence, make a lot of sense to me
I don’t want them to be broken up it hurts my heart
Excellent video and analysis. I loved how you threaded the connections to Ellie talking about Bill, being alone, and being a burden. I disagree with it being doomed from the start necessarily. I think there was definitely foreshadowing to what would happen and I really enjoyed watching you piece it together. I also think they will for sure reunite or something like that because they're both alive and your luck doesn't run out til you're dead. Joel and Tommy, and Joel and Ellie reconciled, so I don't see why Ellie and Dina wouldn't if she overcame her obsession and illness. All of their serious issues and communication problems occur after the inciting incident and all the ways that messed Ellie up. I would even say their other relationship/communication issues from before they got together occured before she reconciled with Joel. I think their issues are dependent on Ellie's internal conflict and that there is a chance for them now that Ellie has resolved it. But I guess we don't know that until they show us!
I want you to know how much I LOVE your channel, man!
I have been obsessed with TLOU for years and have followed it for a long time. As an autistic person who loves it so much, I also analyze the character dynamics and aspects of the story deeply. It's my favorite thing to think about and go back to over and over again. I'm trying my hand at making analysis content, too-- I just want you to know how impressive it is to see yours! Your thoughts are very well organized and I can totally imagine how much effort you put into making this. It's like seeing all the things I think about and want to express verbalized in your videos! That makes me crazy envious LOL.
I just wanted to give you my high compliments on your takes on these aspects of the game, how they all work together, and your application of different psychological theories and understanding of good character writing that you apply in your videos. It's refreshing to see a mature, in depth read of the different dynamics instead of being faced with the usual hate and unwillingness to see different sides that people get into surrounding the game.
It's funny how the fandom is so prone to becoming involved in the cycles that the game warns us against...
Anyways, videos like yours make me appreciate the nuance of the games even more, and I hope to one day be as good as you at organizing it all!
I only ever focused on the main task of the game, these are such eye openers I love it
Fantastic analysis. On fucking point. I really appreciate your deep insight into their very complex relationship. You really ticked off all the details, all the underlying complexities. Phenomenal job. Loved watching this video. You can lose track of the initial interactions and their weight, especially in the later stages of this very long journey. So the way you went chronologically and used the specific moments to contextualise the other scenes made this all the more heavy and truly poignant.
I love Both of them, but I cannot imagine them getting back together. I certainly do hope that they’ll meet once again, and certainly wish they’ll reconcile. This video really hit deep, especially from Th Farm onwards. Kudos♥️
That scene at the farm is one of my favourites in the entire game, I was so invested in this story and their relationship. I was SOBBING.
Excellent analysis, spot on, I particularly appreciate the compassion for each of these wonderful characters, flaws and all. Excited to see what you're making next!
This is a pretty good video. Well edited and researched, doesn’t waste time despite the length - so many youtubers are failing at this these days just being redundant and overexplainy as hell, but this was well intentioned and delivered.
you’ve done it once again. i’m so moved by tlou part 1 and 2, and you’re channel made me appreciate the dialogue and scene even more than i already do. thank you for putting so much time and effort into these, you deserve so much recognition
Hands down my favourite channel.
I've beaten both games over 50 times. And so many people misunderstand the characters. You don't. I appreciate that.
Great analysis - especially around Dina. I thought she was a lovely ray of sunshine in the game but always felt a little flat and like a passenger until the very end so it’s very interesting to hear how you contextualise that behaviour and why she was the way she was.
I absolutely LOVED this video! The amount of details and undertones I missed is insane. This makes the story so much clear to me and in the end I am not so mad of Dina leaving. If possibly I would love to see you analize the ending scene where Ellie fights Abby! I also think a detail you might've missed (Or I didn't notice you mentioning it) is that because Ellie had 2 of her fingers bitten off she can't play the quitar well, the only thing that connected her to Joel is now gone too. Her biggest fear came true, she's alone now.
Thank you so much for this video! Not only did I understand why communication between them didn't work on a deeper level for Ellie and Dina, but it also made me realize how I relate to both of them in different ways, it made me more introspective, towards my emotions and relationships around me, and for that i'm really grateful ☺☺
I love all the work, effort and time you put into making such good content!
Really surprised to hear Ellie was categorised in the “innocent” archetype as I’m sure others were, but it actually makes a lot of sense when you think deeper about it
12:10 - Really glad I'm not the only one who thinks that. I always thought it was Jesse wanting to know if Dina told Ellie about her feelings.
The way you described Dina's side of things hit so close to home :'( I feel I'm like her. I'm afraid to meet the same ending she had with Ellie (inevitably separation).
You make extremely wonderful and comprehensive videos. I hope that you consider doing this kind of content about other games as well in the future. Besides learning about writing and how to understand the nuances of this story, you also teach a lot about life in general.
omfg why am I crying??? Lol
An amazing analysis of Dina, who most fans can easily surmise to be the "one good person" in the story, and break down her fatal flaws as well. She is truly lovable but clearly selfless to a fault and pushed herself way too far to care for a broken person. Her experiences and the way she expresses herself are so incredibly mirror opposite to how Ellie grew up and how she operates make them so fascinating to see together and her incredible charm can easily disguise the fact that she has her own issues that play a part in the demise of the relationship as well. I know I am certainly guilty of overlooking that! I can't wait to play again and take these details in.
Also really love the analysis of Take On Me. Can gladly admit that always went right over my head. I just took it as Ellie's song of choice because of her obsession with old music 🥲
Can't wait for more! Keep on going! And congrats on your new role!
First of all lemme say thank you for this incredibly in-depth analysis! It described their relationship perfectly and you're right with saying that in the end what happened was good for the both of them. Dina needed a break from all the drama and trauma, and Ellie need to finally confront herself with hers for real this time. As much as the Farm scene always tears me apart emotionally, I do believe that it was the only option (beside actual suicide) for Ellie to have a chance at (inner) peace.. to some degree at least... As for Part III, I do see a chance there for Ellie and Dina, but it would take a lot of time and work on Ellie's side to gain back Dina's trust. I believe that Ellie wore the bracelet in the end because she finally realised that there is more to her life and that she can in fact have some happiness. She kept blaming herself for everything, for being immune, for not being able to prevent things, etc. I really want to see her happy if there's a Part III, preferably with Dina and JJ. However, there is a chance that she will sacrifice herself for the cure in the end as well. Would fit the rather dark theme of the lore better than a happy end, but who knows!
Yeah! I do hope they slowly reconcile throughout the third game. However, I don't think ellie should sacrifice herself for the cure, as that would undermine everything joel did for her.
@@kailennewman9881 I also do not want that to happen, but ND does have a tendency to make things dark and sad for us with this game 😭 However I could just as much see the third part be about Ellie finally realizing her worth besides being the immune one, finally letting go of her bad conscience and guilt. I could also see her and Abby‘s path cross again and circumstances forcing them to work together, maybe to find a new way for a cure or something like that, it‘d be a slow burn as well, because of their past though
Excellent video. I never realized how poem added so much context to the epilogue. Waiting patiently for that ending analysis.
This is an unbelievable amount of effort, talent and savvy going into this video. You are criminally under-viewed im so glad these videos are blowing up. Bravo
When Ellie says to Dina “I’m not like you” and Dina is like “HUH?! I put up with it for you and for him” I was so offended on Dina’s behalf. Ellie’s grief makes her extremely self centered and unempathetic to Dina (which makes sense but still makes me offended for Dina). Dina has gone through so much for Ellie and witnessed so much and all Ellie can say is “IM NOT LIKE YOU” and yeah she isn’t like Dina at all which dooms the relationship
I was so offended on Dinas' behalf too lol! I feel like that comment is truly a testament to how lacking the communication between the two of them has gotten. Ellie thinks Dina's living in sunshine and lollipops land while she is drowning in grief not realizing that Dina's experiencing the same thing she just doesn't have the luxury or really the ability to express it, out of concern for Ellie she's holding it together 😭
So Dina is Lover
Ellie is innocence
Joel is Caregiver
Tommy is Hero
I wonder what Maria or Tess would fall under?
Jesse is obviously Ally /J
Ruler and Everyman respectively, is about the best I can come up with. I could be totally wrong, though
Awesome video my friend. I could talk to people for hours about the complexities and deaths of emotion that you have so eloquently and concisely conveyed in this video. I've had a very long and shit couple of months and I don't know how long it's gonna continue it doesn't show any sense of stopping any time soon but it's always nice to jump back into the world of the last of it's oddly really comfort to me because it came to me in a part of my life that was also extraordinarily difficult. So even though I'm aware that the timing is purely coincidental I'm appreciative of the distraction. It's nice to have something else to focus on when your life feels like it's turning a downward corner. As a man that we are all familiar with once said. No matter what keep finding something to fight for see with the next video.