Join me as I break down the character and command decisions made by Admiral Holdo from The Last Jedi, and why she is a perfect example of toxic leadership.
Right? At least with Leia they SHOWED why she was in that position. She had charisma, guts, and was an intelligent leader who knew how to lead the Resistance. Holdo was simply transferred a rank and spent the rest of the movie showing why she didn't deserve it.
i wouldve been better if Leia woke up, ko'd Holdos ass and said 'fck that imcompetent bitch, let's do it my way. Poe get in your ship and try to create..." while some old school star wars theme is playing
Well, thats female leadership. All the female bosses I have had act exactly like Holdo. "I need X project finished by the end of the week" "Its not possible" "It is because i am ordering you to" "That's still not possible" "Are you aware that i am your boss?"
@@ChaosAngel667 curiously, none of my female bosses have been like that. Some of the male ones have, though. Maybe it’s just bad leadership, and doesn’t really have to do with gender?
@@SJ-ym4yt Where are you from? I am from mexico and we are currently ongoing a third wave feminism explosion. Women at college are taught to be domering, outloud and see all criticism against them as sexism. Basically all the traits from toxic masculinity they supposedly hate so much. So women enter the workforce, they feel entitled to a leadership position because they have college degrees and because women can do better than men. So when they face reality they think they have starting job positions because discrimination even if men start on those positions too. Then when they finally get leadership positions they let out their frustrations on their coworkers, which means they are never ascended again, demoted or even fired. They blame sexism and learn nothing from it. Yes, not all women are like that but my field which is software development is very male oriented so women who get into this field think every male around them is looking down on them or as the drunk guy on this video says: They see the worst on people and as result they bring the worst of people.
@@ChaosAngel667 Interesting post. I didn't realise things were quite so bad in Mexico, which is obviously commonly portrayed in Western media (both fictional and non) as highly conservative. Then again, I shouldn't be surprised. The agenda has extended well beyond the confines of the West, from which came the neo-Marxist philosophies at the heart of it all.
I remember thinking she was a spy or a traitor. Literally nothing she said or did made sense as it seemed like she was _trying_ to ruin everything. But no. She was just beyond incompetent and belitting. So brave. Much stunning.
@@Doomlovesearth2 oh yea... tho it would have been better if they didnt introduce the most stupid lightspeed exploit never used before. I litterally cringed watching that, even tho it looked good. Oh, and happy new year!
@@elielbourrelly9902 That was my reaction when I saw that scene in the movie as well. "Wow. That's a pretty visual." *10 seconds later* "Wait. If this is a thing that hyperdrive can do, why has no one ever done this before?"
I can never get past Holdo's outfit. Is that really an Admiral's uniform? She looks like she's dressed for a gala opening at an art exhibit. Just needs a glass of red wine.
They put her in a dress for the SIKE purpose of the moment where Poe negatively comments on her dress to a fellow rebel. The SECOND I heard that line, my ears pricked up because I was like “hold up, they’re trying to make Poe a sexist? When he respects the hell out of Leia? And he’s made zero sexist comments in TFA? WTF is this character assassination?!”
@@dragonknightleader1 My point is that Mon Mothma looked normal in her low key styled civilian clothing. The Karen Holdo on the other hand look waaay out of place with her attire. To the point I kept thinking WTF every time I seen her on screen.
I love how they were forced to retcon the "Holdo Maneuver" in the next movie by saying it was a one in a million shot. Meaning she gambled the entire resistance on a near impossibility.
Drinker recommends + Last jedi slam in one video = perfection. Also I've never heard of Crimson tide but it sounds fucking awesome and I'm on my way to check the movie out.
that movie was one of Tony Scott's absolute best....when the Scott brothers Tony and Ridley were at their best they made some of the best thrillers ever made and even when you could paint their movies as action schlock a lot of those had tension as well..... 😈
*another ship blows up* POE: "What's the plan, Admiral?" HOLDO: "Are you questioning my authority because of my purple hair???" *another ship blows up* POE: "Just tell me there's a plan." HOLDO: "It's because I'm a WOMAN, isn't it?" *another ship blows up*
The Last Jedi, Holdo (to Po): "You have bet the survival of the resistance on bad odds and put us all at risk!" Episode 9: JJ retcons Hyperspace Hulk Smash right back out of existence by having Po say, "Come on. That move was one-in-a-million." So Holdo in TLJ was about to perform a maneuver that had a one-in-a-million chance of succeeding. How's THAT for "bad odds?" Lol.
@@KneelB4Bacon It's obviously, that Holdo was trying to make a getaway by using hyperjump. But as usually she f*cked up everything and instead did a kamikadze-type run! What an idiot! Great military leader my ass!
After 9 years in the army, when I first saw this movie I assumed what any person who had a shitty leader before would assume...that she is working for the enemy. The entire movie I was waiting for the reveal that she was an agent of the bad guys. Imagine my chagrin when it turned out that not only was she one of the "good guys", but that she was also somehow vindicated in her decision making. Wtf?!
I don't know what is the common experience in the Army but I did comment here that as a Marine Corps veteran this type of autocratic and belittling leadership style is more common than it should be. I had a squad leader who made us completely rearrange our pack style and when I asked why I couldn't put thing the way I wanted his response was "because I said so" over and over again, like Holdo. When asking about this to other veterans on reddit, namely Army and Marine Corps, it's apparant that many see this leadership style as acceptable as long as it's a lawful order and they are of a higher rank or billet than you.
Do as you're told, scrub. Blind allegiance. That's what leadership is all about, right? Sure it is Lucasfilm. Sure it is.... I know guys from Vietnam who only made it back because they disobeyed bad leaders. And I know guys who made it through Iraq because they followed good leaders. Decide for yourself whether "just following orders" is the right thing to do.
@@joelfenner Unfortunately it's because I thought for myself that I was kicked out of the Marine Corps. I had leaders who bullied me for being celibate. Constantly pressuring me to have sex and said I was wrong for having an issue with it. That telling sex stories "raised morale". Actually what really got me forced out was I had a platoon and company CoC obsessed with the buddy system. Never go anywhere by yourself, even if you're a corporal, even short distances on base. It wasn't logically possible to obey these rules but they did they acted like I had to and acted like I was bad when I didn't even though they themselves disobeyed these rules. My Sergeant in particular was basically a stalker and said I had to be literally next to someone with the platoon at all times. Eventually I became suicidal and was forced out. Was this my fault?
@@lightorchestrator Nope. You caught a raw deal. You're not alone. Don't blame yourself. It's not like there was a "good" choice the way you describe it. Finding someone who is an honorable leader is rare. You're happy to follow if you get respect and support in kind. You'll go farther and do more. It is actually possible to be inspired by someone who has something to offer. But just being told you have to respect someone because of rank or position creates headaches if they only see you as a tool to use and nothing more. Following dumb orders doesn't build anything except resentment. "Best-worst" story I collected personally was from a dude who came back from Vietnam alive and in one piece. But he only got back because he and the rest of his unit basically mutinied and "incapacitated" an insane 20-ish new CO who wanted to make a name for himself by ordering the whole unit on a sewer-side mission (literally a "Let's go find and ambush Charlie" thing he dreamt up himself without orders). The CO had them all court-martialled, and they were given a choice between a dishonorable and Leavenworth. They all chose discharges, and found ways to get on with their lives in spite of being "marked". Could have been worse. Could have been better. As far as I'm concerned, not a one of them chose wrong, except the CO.
@@joelfenner The incompetent CO would have betrayed the entire company just to save his own skin if he got captured by the Viet Cong once his rickety biplane crashed
The contrast between her and Leia is ridiculous. If you look at the briefing Leia gives the X-Wing pilots just before they evacuate Hoth, she does everything right; she's confident and authoritative in her superior position without in any way denigrating theirs, tells them exactly what they need to do, tells them exactly why they need to do it this way, responds to a perfectly reasonable question ("Two fighters against a Star Destroyer?") by calmly showing that command's already thought of that and has measures to stop it being a suicide mission, asks if anyone has any questions, and sends them off with a respectful "good luck" with a tone of "yes, this will be dangerous, but your odds are decent" rather than "we need a miracle." Even the appearance, costume and body language is a contrast; Leia's a head shorter and the only woman there (and a young, pretty one at that), but her eye contact and commanding tone of voice are direct and clear without being overcompensating, she appears confident but not overconfident, and her purely functional clothes and hair broadcast that, even though she has a higher rank and is addressed as "princess", she is very much one of them. Compare this to Holdo; despite being unusually tall and a more believable age to be in command she has absolutely no presence, her facial expression and tone of voice somehow manage to communicate both arrogance and "I'm totally out of my depth" at the same time, and both her coiffure (extra noticeable due to its ridiculous colour) and the floor-length gown that we see she needs to pick up to manage stairs (seriously, what kind of idiot designs a military uniform that will trip its wearer?) broadcast that she is not a soldier, she is a queen, and expects to be treated as such by the peasants.
When I first watched this movie, I thought Admiral Holdo was a villain. When the imperial fleet followed them through lightspace, I thought it was because Holdo was an Imperial spy. "Brilliant!" I thought. I was so fucking confused when that turned out to be not true.
That would have been a "twist" that was common, yet made sense. After all, all the signs pointed to it. When they pull the rug out from under with "um akshully she was good and selfless and you are once again the bad guy for trying to get people killed" When he genuinely thought he was going to save the rebellion, based on every bit of information he and the audience is given. It's like in an effort to be different, they really just made a situation that's pointless and unsatisfying.
See, I kind of thought the same thing too at first. The way she acted and did little made me think she was intentionally sabotaging things so the First Order could catch them. That actually would have been a pretty good idea there and would have made more sense about her character. Unfortunately, Round-Head Rian Johnson is complete hack who wouldn't know what to do with a creative idea if it was handed to him on a silver platter. The Last Jedi is proof of that.
Worst leadership displayed on screen since Lt. Gorman in "Aliens" Poe asked a simple question: What's the plan?" You fail as a leader if you are unable to communicate with your crew and would rather antagonize and belittle one of the best soldier in your army just to make the point that you are a strong female and won't be mansplained what to do when Poe didn't even challenge her authority at first. He only asked what was the fucking plan. That's the most legitimate question to ask your leader in that situation.
HEY Gorman wasnt actually a bad leader he lacked combat experience and was heavily dependent on the combat veteran Sarge but when he got taken out and people started dropping like flies he froze. Then later in the movie he didnt try and take back his command he step aside and let the Ripley and the other combat marines take charge. He had enough brain power to realize he was out of his depth. Gorman wasnt a great or even good leader but least he was smart enough to step down and let those with more experience call the shots.
@@fangwhiteclaw7089 Yes, Gorman had a plan, but no experience. He also had a shitty Sargent. The Sarge let the troops interrupt and bullshit when Gorman was briefing the upcoming Op. The proper reaction would have been to stop the briefing and have a little talk with the sarge. Is this the rabble you call your squad? Is this what you are offering me for this Op? Will you keep them in good order and discipline, or do you want me to do that for you? Etc. But of course Gorman lacked that experience too. Most of the audience missed that too and liked Sarge, becasue he was a "character". The pointof all of this, I think, is that the EEEEEEEEEEEEVIL corporation sent a shitty squad destined to fail on purpose. (Gorman got wounded, not sure when he gave up command)
She was so terrible that no one mourned her 'sacrifice' in the end. They were just so glad she was gone. Alternatively, if Admiral Akbar was there, and had made such a sacrifice when all else failed, damn, what a massive character boost for him and the franchise. Every kid at Halloween would have been Adm. Akbar! No, they just blew him up with no fanfare, not a word of mourning. Pathetic. They really did try to kill the childhood of millions of adults who loved the first three movies. It's like they hated their own audience.
Holdo was a perfect image into how the matriarchy at Disney works, - poisonous and condescending, and both abundantly delivered from behind a smiling mask. Rey is KK's image of herself, Holdo is what she's really like.
@@imperatricedelaconstellati8523 Which part of feminism would that be? The support of eugenics theory, vandalism, pipe bombings, and incitement to riots of the Suffragettes? The American prominent feminist front figures of the 50'es, serving in double roles as leaders of the Women's KKK? Or the ties to the Nazis, that defined leading french feminists of WWII, who served as the Nazi regimes propagandists? Or just the suggestion to reduce the male population down to 10% in the 60'es and 70'es, effectively global scaled genocide? Or the more current suggestion of placing all men in concentration camps, that surfaced in The Guardian in the last decade, and were hailed across the entire global feminist landscape for weeks? Because it is blatantly obvious that no feminists teachers or professors teaching in the Women's Studies classes today, ever bother to teach their young female students about the true history of feminism, - since their wages are dependent on keeping the gullible and easily manipulared showing up by way of an entirely one-sided victim narrative, that frees them from all personal responsibility and accountability, - so those are all immensely fair questions, agreed? You know, when you spend 15 years of your life, carefully sifting through every aspect of feminism and its history, it's the most 'amazing' things you come across...And I mean that in the most sarcastic way possible..
@@devonmiller8255 Kathleen Kennedy is a woke feminist who has earned her place in the dumpster fire. Rian has to make her happy somehow with poor writing.
That's another thing I have always found interesting. The Last Jedi is the only Disney Star Wars movie to not replace either the writer, director, or both during production. And Rian Johnson was the sole writer and director.
Seriously, all his decisions make complete sense. He knew that this was probably their best chance to destroy the dreadnought, and so made the tough decision that about 50 pilots, and a couple dozen bombers that honestly belonged in the scrap heap, were worth destroying the dreadnought. When holdo wouldn't tell him her plan, he made the decision to send two men to try and get a hacker that could disable the tracker, and save the resistance. When holdo still wouldn't tell anyone her plan, and were preparing unarmed, unshielded transports, he did the most logical thing he could when he thought his commander was leading them to their deaths, he mutinied, and if you look at poes mutiny crew, you can even see members of the bride crew there, which means she didn't even tell her staff the plan, she just wanted blind obedience from everyone
Its because its what the writers see to be bad-guy material. They despise competence and questions and being helpful. They see it as toxic masculinity and the capitalist patriarchy. If they try to make a character look bad in their eyes it will be the opposite to normal people :D
And what's worse is that Holdo's plan ended up being terrible. Thanks to her plan they lost two ships and ended up getting themselves cornered by going to a base that had no exit and the only chance of survival was to win a head on fight despite being outmanned and outgunned
As a kid watching this, i genuinely thought holdo was going to be a twist villain. That was how she seemed characterized, and i was seriously confused when she turned out to be “the hero”
I fully agree. I expected her to be an egotistical and dumb „leader”, who always things she’s right and everyone are just „stupid”, so i has expecting that when Lea will be concious again, she will berade Holdo of what she has done, but NOPE. Holdo was in the right the hole time and everyone where just dumb. You know when one of the first scenes of the movie shows a bomber drop bombs in THE VOID OF SPACE WITH 0 GRAVITY, you know the movie was writen by a child
@@graveslayer9666 the bombs falling made sense because objects that have velocity maintain velocity within the void of space. That doesn't excuse the fact that the bombers suck anyways but moving on...
I mean, we just had 2 years of our leaders telling us to: Close down your businesses. Wear a mask or don’t leave your house. Get vaxxed or lose your job. And if you refuse any of this then you are a bad person. We’re supposed to accept that as good leadership.
Let's be real here: the ONLY reason any people defend Holdo is because she's a woman. If a male general had treated a female captain with the same disdain, arrogance, and pettiness that Holdo showed to Poe, that general would be rightly called out as a toxic, ineffective bully.
I had a friend (male) who defended all of holdos decision. He is no feminist, quite the opposite. He said she is in charge and she is right.... Maybe he is just stupid. Don't know like I said, I had a friend.
@@o0neill to be fair, the way she acts is not just indicative of Karens... it's also what the ACTUAL definition of 'toxic masculinity' is (because it's not really masculinity, it's petulant arrogance demanding submission, which is what many men who are immature in themselves and grow up to be 40-year-old toddlers do). The movie actually accidentally shows that it's not toxic MASCULINITY, it's toxic PEOPLE that are the problem. All while trying desperately to paint Holdo as a saint and the intelligent, totally justified Poe as toxic >.< lol
@@o0neill To be fair, she did have responsibility over the bomber crews, who Poe got all killed - but if Poe hadn't taken out the Dreadnought, it'd have bombarded them and finished them off in short order during the chase later on. And Poe did get demoted - but she still overeacted.
Sometimes, it's the little things. I was doing post checks one night and found one of my guys head bobbing. Making a valiant effort to remain alert and attentive, but losing the battle. So I relieved him of his weapon, told him to get some air, grab some coffee, hit the head if he needed, and stood his post for about 30 minutes. I could have just been chickenshit, and written him up, but I didn't. At the end of the day, leadership is like taking care of your feet. If you don't, you're not going anywhere. You take care of your people, and they will work miracles for you.
"You just don't like her because she's a strong woman." As a person raised by a single mother, that statement would sound utterly ridiculous to me. I know a strong woman when I see one, and Admiral Holdo doesn't count. In fact, my mother thinks she's an idiot.
You know, the sick irony is that they have projected their own tendency to hate someone for being a white male (or even black male depending on the situation) onto everyone else. It's not that THEY are bigots, it's that everyone else is a bigot. It's deeply frustrating to me because I know their intentions are basically good. But their unwillingness to self-reflect and grow, and instead ruin everything with their toxic mentality, has created such a painful dissonance in the left. I wish I could call myself a feminist, I much prefer the company of women, and in my experience the pride and anger of men creates as many if not more problems than the heavily emotional responses women tend to have toward all situations. But aligning myself with such open bigotry that is rivaled only by literal hate groups like the KKK... I just can't do it.
@@skeetsmcgrew3282 Not all of the left thinks like that. I'm just as disgruntled with these people as you are and I absolutely agree with you. People like Admiral Holdo (basically Karens) are adding to the problem by reinforcing the gender divide with their sexist tendencies, ignoring non-binary and transgender people completely, and declaring anyone who disagrees with them an enemy. They're very toxic people who are making those who actually want to make a positive impact on society look bad.
I read somewhere that the annoying droid in the Han Solo movie was originally a parody of her too, and that’s why the directors were fired. Not sure how true it is though.
I saw a meeting of the minds behind the films once. Kennedy was in attendance. Most of the time, she's been trying in some way to usurp the meeting. Especially when someone else was talking
'Crimson Tide' is a masterpiece...i couldn't decide which of the two main characters got my sympathy...both had their reasons for their actions and both of the characters were superbly portrayed...what a movie!
I’m normally not one to comment, but my therapist is really encouraging me to share with you how immensely helpful your commentary on the Disney “Star Wars” movies has been for my personal healing process. So yeah, I just hope you know the impact of the work you’re doing because, although everyone’s recovery will inevitably look different, I’m sure many others feel the same way. Thank you.
Holdo: "I want to speak to your manager!" Poe: "You are my manager." Holdo's head collapses in on itself due to the power of the resulting internal conflict.
TLJ is a shitty, terrible, awful movie. Johnson has made good films in the past. I thought Brick, for instance, was clever. (I thought Knives Out was a derivative, obvious murder mystery, but still better than TLJ) I think the man can write and direct an interesting movie, in his wheelhouse. This movie was so wildly OUT of his wheelhouse that I can only surmise that he agreed to take heavy notes from Kennedy in order to get the job. The movie fails on every level, and it seems all in service of the gender politics. I've seen his writing for female characters. Nothing approaches this. He may be a man-baby....but I don't know that this shitty movie proves that.
It's kinda hilarious how much of a sensitive little bitch he is. For all his talk about "man baby dude bro fans", he is constantly bitching on twitter about any criticism of his story.
Reason why Poe was supposed to be wrong is kinda weird because Poe was right and mature while holdo was behaving like a baby who had a problem with good command so Poe was wrong because he… started a mutant he had all right starting because he was given no instructions on what the plan was and was shouted at for asking a question wow great story rian
To anyone who defends Holdo as a leader I just say this: Any leader that has managed to lose control due to a mutiny has completely failed as a leader. When you've lost the respect of enough of your crew that they can successfully overthrow you, you've lost any right to call yourself an effective leader. Also a note to Mr Johnson...SHOW DON'T TELL, it's all very well telling us that Holdo is this great military leader but when she shows no examples of being a competent leader, well it's almost like that's a complete fabrication. I'm pretty much convinced Holdo was just some wealthy senator's daughter who bought her position with daddy's money.
Holdo: No. I am a leader, I’m the best leader. I knew there was a spy, and it was me. I was the best spy, the greatest even. Remember that time I rammed the First Order? That was my only mistake. I was trying to get away from the shuttles so they couldn’t circle back and got the hyperspace lever and the gas lever wrong. It was my bad. Totally wrong. But at least I got a manoeuvre named after me. My name is now famous and no one knew I was the spy.
Despite loving Hackman, Denzel, suspense, and military movies for many years, today was the first time I saw Crimson Tide, largely through watching this review a while back and putting it on my watch list. WOW, what a great film!! Thank you, Drinker, you loquacious scholar.
I remember absolutely hating Holdo and rooting for Poe the whole movie. Then Leia sided with Holdo and I was extremely confused. Like, was I supposed to be rooting for Holdo this whole time? That's when I realized this movie was absolute shit and I regret ever watching it.
It's sad that Poe had legitimate reason to remove her from command but the movie treats it like he's having a temper tantrum. But what can you expect from a writer like Johnson that has no grasp of how military officers are supposed to act.
I cant tell him the orders cuz he might be a spy or whatever. Look lady, if poe is a spy you have WAAAAY bigger problems, like he's your best fighter, by A LOT, who's gonna stop him?
@@thelaughingrouge If they've got a spy, the ex-stormtrooper would also be high on the list too. . Poe's only real mistake was underestimating how terrible those stupid bombers were. To his defense, why the hell did they even have those pieces of trash in the first place?
I will from this point on refer to her as “Purple-Haired Space-Karen” or “Admiral Purple-Haired Space-Karen” I think I left to take a piss when they said who she was at the theater because I kept wondering why people were taking orders from the clueless bitch in the party dress. For a while, I thought she was some idiot snob bureaucrat left in charge.
In Iraq, I became a Squad Leader WITHOUT gaining rank. Half my guys, had the same rank as me. Well, a month later, all 5 Squads, yah, all the guys, wanted to be in my Squad, because they respected my effort and drive...
Spent four years in the Navy and can personally speak from experience that "leaders" like this exist in the military -- petty men and women whose only impressions and behaviors left upon those under their watch are the senses that they're simply pure narcissists, prideful of themselves, and enjoy getting high off the scents of their own farts. In the most minor of circumstances, they just become people who you avoid at all costs or just find annoying when in homeport or while going about doing your daily duties. However, in the most important of circumstances -- active warfare, combat situations, etc. -- they become the worst people simply because there's constantly a lingering sense of dread that you can't really trust them, and yet you have no other choice. In the minds of so many, "leaders" like Holdo give off the impression that the only interests they really have at heart are theirs. And when your life depends on it, your left questioning whether you're going to live or die. I don't blame Po at all for his actions. I'm glad that purple-haired space Karen died and has never again returned to any new Star Wars media.
Couldnt have said it better, my father is the same way and its just unbearable. Dealing with dumb toxic people is like sucking away my energy, like a prnstar sucking a 🍆😂
I like how they HAD a good leader character that was iconic and loved, Admiral Gial Ackbar, and they didn't fucking use him for anything more than killing him.
The way they unceremoniously had him die off screen threw me off guard when I first saw this. I couldn't believe it. It was one of the reasons why I was so confused about how to feel until the day after when it set in.
Unfortunately many "strong" women ("strong" men too) are just narcissistic bullies who, when someone criticizes their behavior , will say "you just can't cope with a strong woman". Also, when a person is being emotionally unstable and throwing tantrums and unjustly blaming others when things don't go exactly how they wanted they are, in their opinion, not immature and selfish but "temperamental". War makes not one great and bringing down and belittling others makes not one strong.
General Holdo is a horrible leader. It's funny that's she's supposed to be written as a top-notch commander. Yet, she does not demonstrate any of the 21 laws of leadership. She doesn't hold by any of the 6 pillars of ethics. She's literally like a person who has never lead a person in their life and never did any studying. Holdo is the person that children think how leaders act; selfish, self-serving, and enigmatic towards the protagonist (themselves). She shows so many unethical actions in just the way she withholds information and especially the way she speaks to people. I agree with the video's summary: It's like this movie was written and directed by a child. These behaviors are totally outside the realm of reality and not like 'it's impossible' but more-so that it makes absolutely no sense anyone in Holdo's position would be this childishly retarded.
Murgoh well said often I found people mistake being a prick or cunt for “strength “. Trying to create an atmosphere of pressure where their decisions are never questioned. And rightly Questioning it is constructed as insubordination
Holdo reminded me of my mother growing up. You want to know why you're being told to do something and the response is "Because I said so." Nothing engenders more frustration and resistance in the recipient except for "Calm down." I could understand that maybe Holdo was under a lot of stress and frustrated with the situation (like my mother was) but if I was her, I'd be pleased that I have someone asking questions to keep me from getting tunnel vision, to ensure I was making the best choice possible. If I wanted mindless obedience from my crew I'd get droids.
I was raised like this by my grandfather. But he was a man of à very different time born in 1912 with PTSD from WW2 and WW1 for loosing his parents to it, and was emprisoned in a siberian gulag for 5 years after the war. So when my daughters were born I vowed not to do the same thing. It maybe take more time but it's better in my opinion.
Doesn't need to be the entire plan either just a brief summarization no specifc details or locations or people but just the outline of the plan she could do that and her subordinates would still understand her commanders intent and thats whats most important. The fact she couldn't do that is nothing short incompetence.
@@808INFantry11X Yeah. Something like "The main plan is this. Your bit is this. So focus on getting these done so the rest of the plan succeeds." Done and done.
@@Ealsante and the rest of the plan can be filled in when they proceed pass certain phase lines in a mission. Its often what happens in the military if the operation is relatively classified or there is unknown variables you creat a loose plan often you will brief your troops and advise them that this is a soft plan means there will be changes so it let's your troops know at least ok there is changes so keep flexible. The major point to know what the intent to is that needs to be solid.
@@808INFantry11X Yeah. Even something as simple as "That planet is our objective, and we need to be as close to it as possible" would at least have allowed subordinates such as Poe to do their jobs with a goal in mind, and even to offer suggestions as to how they could delay or distract the enemy to buy time. The thing is, there was one military in modern era I can think of where orders were kept ultra secret from their own commanders due to security reasons, and that was South Vietnam. And as you might recall, that was an utter clusterfuck.
it was the only way for him to save face. He's riding that LGBT wagon. I even found out that there is an entire community responsible for bailing LGBT people out of jail because they get "mistreated". Things like rape and whatnot...you know .... JAIL ? If that's not backwards favoritism then uhhhh..... What is this actually I'm not even sure what to call this. I don't see any support like that for "normal" people . If I was in jail knowing this I'd probably identify as LGBT as well! Ohhhhh, it's as if I've stumbled upon a moral problem that can be abused.... STRRRAAANGE.
@@Keira_Blackstone Woowwww I'm the MOST homophobic person in the world!!! You found me , thats right! I am the very one ! And I found a common idiot! Man... our luck just isn't the same ! Who's the 2nd most homophobic person? Did you meet em yesterday or like 10 minutes ago?
true story: there is an infamous scene in this film where Admiral Holdo sacrifices herself by flying through the enemy spaceship at lightspeed, taking everyone on it with her. This moment is completely silent, hoping that the impactfulness of the sacrifice and the imagery is enough to carry it without any audible accompaniment. When I saw this scene for the first time in the theater, I laughed my ass off and everyone in the theater laughed with me. Because it was so absurd. This insane character was weirdly stand offish and vague about her plan for a long time, to a point where she ignited a mutiny under her control, and this was all for the sake of setting her up . . . and she dies in the same film she's established in?? Like, what the hell were they hoping for with this character?
@TheCriticalDrinker I really enjoy your critiques and admire your use of film examples. The examples help to elevate your arguments well above other channels and articals that I have seen where the writer or host just complains without offering a referance point or solution. Keep up the good work good sir, you’re doing great things for the entertainment industry!!
One of the best admirals in the galaxy, commanding the mon calamari star cruisers capable of taking on imperial star destroyers head on. Provider of the It's a TRAP meme for decades. Killed off screen while Leia supermans it into the ship from deep space. I FUCKING HATE this movie.
Like a legendary fleet commander would be okay with just one jump and then no fighter screen. He would have been yelling at everyone to make 3 more jumps and get some fighters up 'cause he's not an idiot.
She would have a mental breakdown reading one of Jocko's books. Probably wouldn't make it past page 10. Yet she was responsible for ruining arguably the greatest movie franchise of all time. Strange time we live in.
I remember thinking "damn I really don't like this character, this is great acting, I'm gonna love it when she turns out to be evil" Then she isn't evil? She's just being a cunt. This whole movie was like this. Everytime they start doing something you think is clever they subvert your expectations and it ends up just being retarded instead.
I think that it would have been better to have Holdo be the Dolores Umbridge of Star Wars, a character that we just hate with a passion. I mean, I was already getting those vibes while watching the movie, from her actions to even her appearance (just look at her she's even got purple and pink just like Dolores!). I thought they were intentionally trying to make an unlikable antagonist for the heroes to overcome, and I would have liked the film better if they had just stuck to that instead of trying to say that all her actions were justified. And heck, if they still needed the Holdo maneuver, then they could have shown her seeing the error of her ways and choosing to selflessly sacrifice herself to save the resistance. I would have loved this: a character made to be hated by the viewers, only to surprise us all and redeem herself at the end. But instead, we have a jerk cheaply painted as a hero...
"they could have shown her seeing the error of her ways and choosing to selflessly sacrifice herself to save the resistance" "a character made to be hated by the viewers, only to surprise us all and redeem herself at the end" Within his context, Severus Snape does exactly that.
I remember having a brigadier general telling my squadron about our potential upcoming orders which included the general game plan as well as the hazards we might incur, which could lead up to, and include, death. Nobody questioned him or thought about mutiny, even amongst us grunts. He was the complete opposite of Holdo. Thank God he was a real man.
@@Mart77 yeah that accurately describes by ex wife as well she thought everyone was crazy and toxic in the end I finally saw that she was the crazy toxic one
Actually, it's funny to me that that's what we're holding up these days. I saw Crimson Tide 15 years ago, when it was a decade old, and I thought they went out of their way to make Hackman's character seem villainous just to ramp up the stakes. For example, he shoves an innocent Seaman against the bulkhead and threatens to blow his brains out to force Viggo Mortensen to cooperate. Now characters like Holdo make that character seem calm and reasonable.
The whole Crimson tide Hoodwink BS makes me sick . . there are big YTers out there parroting nonsense . . I'v many times recounted the real basis to no avail apparent . . The K129 was in 69 an soviet diesel Golf class soviet sub . . nuclear missile capable . . that at the time was being sold to China as 'old stock' , an clique of the KGB (Suslov & co) . . hijacked the soon to be sold to Chicom sub . . & attempted an false flag attack on US Honolulu naval base (hoping for US retaliation against soviet ally China . . because their friendship was bad or wtf) . . the missiles were launched but the hatch did't open (due to fail safes given to top soviets by US . . for this rogue contingency situation) . . the missiles burned a hole in the bottom of the sub & it sank . The US with their passive underwater sonar detectors had tracked the sub from its base & heard the explosion . . the CIA Hughes Glomar explorer . . did lift it largely from the bottom aka history . . Nixon went to China with the evidence of Russian attempted back stab & an US China relations thaw ensued .
Poe: Okay, so we're gonna blow that one up. Holdo: [Incomprehensible toxic emotional gibberish] Poe: Hm, okay, so we're gonna blow _that_ one up...? This goes 'round and 'round many, many times. Holdo would be enough for me to quit the Rebellion, if I didn't know any better.
Yeah, I remember feeling that her character was off. And how it felt like the writers were trying to force me to admire her. It almost felt like when someone gaslights you. Left a bad taste in my mouth. This video explains why I felt that way at the time...
@man0z Is this a spectacularly ill judged attempt at 'humour', or are you a legitimate neo-fascist scumbag? Either way, pretty disgusting behaviour. Massed genocide of civilians is not 'true leadership and command' - it is a war crime, and most people are fully aware of the difference.
Crimson Tide is an example of a dumb story executed so well that you can overlook even the most obvious flaws. I mean, Christ, every time Denzel and Gene are together on screen is just mesmerizing that I no longer care that the premise of the conflict is farcical.
When I watched this film in the cinema, it wasn't until a few minutes after Holdo hyper-rams the star destroyer that I realised she WASN'T an imperial mole! At every point in the story she works against the interests of the rebels, and Poe was making the right call at every stage, especially in retrospect when the First Order shoots almost all the escape pods.
This video reminds me of a couple stories my grandpa told me about Vietnam. Specifically that the leaders that consistently made bad decisions and put the lives of their subordinates in danger for no reason often ended up with a round of 5.56 sailing through the back of their skull
Holdo was the most successful First Order spy and saboteur ever. She successfully wormed her way into a position of leadership in the resistance. From there, she stalled and waylaid every single escape plan, allowing the entire resistance fleet to be destroyed one by one... until they were down to the Raddis. She then convinced the survivors to get on board those highly vulnerable and unshielded escape shuttles while she sat back on the Raddis, practically serving them to the First Order on a silver platter. With her mission accomplished, she attempted to move the Raddis out of the way with a safe hyperspace jump... only for a freak, one-in-a-million accident to ruin her perfect plan.
Did we watch the same movie? Holdo had a great escape plan with a high chance of success which depended on the First Order not finding out about it, so she kept it in secret in case one of the rebels is captured, or there is a spy among the crew. What did Poe do? Went off the ship without his superior's permission and revealed the plan to the First Order, killing lots of people and making the whole plan failed, and that is after he disobeyed a direct order to fall back, which resulted in multiple deaths and many destroyed bombers, which was a big hit on the Rebels, as they lacked manpower and resources for a battle of attrition and making sacrifices to destroy one ship, even if the ship was of great importance. Poe was directly responsible for dozens if not hundreds of deaths and near-destruction of the entire rebel force, and indirectly caused Luke to die. Holdo sacrificed *herself* to fix the mess he made, while Poe sacrificed *others* to satisfy his need for adrenaline, attention, and egoistic satisfaction.
@@TheByQQ did we watch the same youtube video? or the same movie? poe literally did not leave the ship. that was a different character. that was finn. attacking and destroying the ship with the long range cannons was what saved them in the first place from not being sniped to death, although that was not evident at the time. all of poes actions in the movie were quite clearly in line with what he saw as the best way to preserve the resistance, and admiral holdo literally refused to tell anyone their plan, even their most loyal, and skilled pilot as well as second/third in command. after repeatedly begging the leader that they had any inkling of a plan or way to escape, and being literally denied, he made the decision that for the rebels to survive, the clearly incompetent, unprofessional and indecisive leader who had at every stage displayed said incompetence, unprofessionalism and indecisiveness must be overthrown. not to mention, that to everyone on board, or at least poe, well before the actual escape plan, he found out that the fuel was being diverted to the escape pods. with holdo being so fucking incompetent at keeping her "grand plan" a secret, you can only really conclude that she specifically wasnt telling her plan to only poe, just to be a childish dick.
Maybe the situation was a no-win scenario, with both just reacting very differently? One wanting to go down fighting, the other one minimising casualties? Maybe there is no right way out of it and its the Kobayashi Maru scenario, with every viewer just assuming there is not just a way out, but a RIGHT way out?
@@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681 Nah man, there's an obvious right answer, fill in critical members of your plan or at the very least let them know you have something in the works. Doing so would've prevented Po from trying to lead a mutiny, and would've cut the film time by like 20min. She's an admiral so all she has to do is tell him that he's grounded and explain that going down fighting while there's a way to escape safely is pointless. She has no real reason to holdout such information anyway. Giving your subordinates little to no information will lead them to draw their own conclusions, which is not something you want in a high stress life or death situation. I'd expect this type of behavior from a lieutenant fresh from OCS not someone with the rank of admiral.
@@tylerstiegelmeyer161 In heiniesight, it can appear obvious. But if you see the future, how about throwing him into the brig for disobeying orders before he does anything? Or how about training your soldiers, maybe, follow orders and chain of command? 😆
You ever notice that in older movies characters are allowed to be sweaty and gross for long periods of time while these days everyone has to be sparkling and perfect at all times?
@@AmirChemE True, but the actress did tons of interviews talking up how awesome her character is, so it's probably safe to say she was on board with it.
Never forget that Tom Kane, who voices Yoda in the animated stuff and voiced Ackbar in TLJ and video games, openly voiced his disgust with how Ackbar was killed off as an afterthought and said 'Who's this Holdo woman? No one cares about her!' and Ackbar's puppeteer Tim Rose actually cried when Rian Johnson made a joke about Ackbar after killing him. Fuck Johnson, he should be flipping burgers somewhere.
I remember the "Last Battle" scene from the first Star Wars movie. I remember that in addition to the action, the movie included the radio communications between the fighters, their wing commanders, and the commanders at the rebel base. I remember how the transmission received in the fighters was rough, as it would be in reality, and how the battle was fought according to a plan which everyone was briefed on. Even details like Red Leader keeping discipline by saying "cut the chatter" when Wedge said "look at the size of that thing." War and battles are real business, with strict discipline, careful planning, and no time for nonsense like dying your hair purple, or letting emotions or personal opinions get in the way. Everyone knows, or should know the plan in case a leader or leaders get knocked out. But I doubt a single writer on the new Star Wars ever served a day in uniform, and their only experience with battles is watching "Top Gun" once or twice.
Hey Jar Jar actually fought his ass off, and in frontal clash field battles, barehand (and foot) against tanks and lasers! I SO wish they went ahead with the Darth Jar Jar arc. It looked terrible back then, but in retrospective, he'd made a more compelling sith mastermind than literally ANYONE in the sequels trilogy.
Everyone is scared and all looks lost. "What are we gonna do boss?" "Shut up, you're a private now! Its a SeCrEt!!" Never has there been a more inspiring leader.
Well, the "its a secret" part would suggest that there is a plan and Po would understand that and wouldn't start a mutiny. Its kinda incredible how bad the writing was
Even worse than that, she doesn't even say there is a plan. She just tells him to trust her. Without having done anything to inspire trust. And the people were not scared without reason. They were being massacred. You can't tell people to just sit still and wait for redemption while every nerve in every body screams to either fight or fly.
@@TheEvertw She never said trust her. She said he was the last thing they needed in leadership after his crap got hundreds killed. Thats a bigger massacre than anything Holdo did. And thats not even mentioning Poe's "master codebreaker"plan that got more killed when DJ tattled.
@@phousefilms Just ignore that his plan, which initially got the big "OK" saved them from being turned to tiny bits in the first few minutes of the film. And that his "code breaker" plan was devised because the acting leadership liked keeping secrets from everybody, eventually leading to a near mutiny. And the "code breaker" crap fell apart because of plot holes, in which the movie was no stranger to. And Rian Johnson clearly has no concept of how space works, as there was no reason for them to continue exhausting fuel when space offers zero resistance.
Hey man, i just wanted to say thanks for the vid. I just watched crimson tide with my brother because of it, 10/10 what a fucking good movie, have a nice day.
Thank you for breaking down Holdo's ineptitude at every turn. Also for contrasting it with what I believe is a criminally underrated movie, "Crimson Tide". While I was not a Navy man, all branches of military service deal with leadership on a daily basis and unlike a job at Amazon or Walmart, a bad military leader can get you killed very quickly. For what it's worth, I think Rian does this stuff on purpose. Think about it in this way: if he believes that controversy equals free social media advertising for his project, then what better way to get free ad time than to provoke every single die hard Star Wars fan into jumping online and keeping the conversation alive? I believe he's even said as much in so many words without ACTUALLY saying it. Mostly i try to ignore this stuff and speak with my wallet, but aside from his horrific treatment of the Luke character THIS leadership failure bothered me the most. Thanks again for covering it, as it is evident to some of us that you KNOW what leadership is.
I discussed this with my coworkers rather heavily. This film's depiction of her made it appear that she might be an FO agent. I couldn't think of any other reason why she would just let them go along like lambs to the slaughter. She wouldn't tell anyone what was going on or what the plan was, something that is ridiculous for a supreme commander. When it tried to turn around and make her the hero, I couldn't believe it. Poe did nothing wrong. He only did what any sane living being would do in that situation. The mutiny was a rational last resort.
@@Tronathon242 I totally thought that too on my first viewing. That she was feeding the fleets coordinates to Hux and that's why they were following them. Only explanation I could think of for her shifty behavior.
One thing that really sticks out to me is the irony of Holdo demanding unquestioning loyalty from rebels. I strongly suspect that the sort of people who blindly follow orders aren't likely to join a resistance.
I think they make it pretty clear in the Rebels cartoon series that 'blindly following orders' is what the Empire does. Every single time the crew in that show has to act on orders from 'rebel command' they aren't exactly jumping with excitement.
@@NotTheStinkyCheese Drinker is really Agreeable for a Right-Winger, so i wished he'd collabed with "Some More News" one day. He even has covered MANY of what Drinker often says in his 'Popcorn Dystopia'-Video. !
That's an interesting point. I wonder if there's ever been any media showing how difficult it is to lead people who are prone to rebelling against authority. Even just and fair authority
@@slevinchannel7589 I really don't feel like he's a right winger he seems to just have a strong sense of morality and principles. Qualities that shouldn't know party lines.
As soon as i heard you mention crimson tide i saw that it was some sort of war movie I haven't seen before. I was looking for a new movie to watch anyways so i instantly paused the video to avoid spoilers and rented the movie. Good is an understatement, crimson tide is an excellent movie. Thank you for mentioning it I wouldn't have ever known about it without this video.
You should make a video showing some good movies to watch. I sometimes find it hard to figure out what movies are worth my time or not to watch. Like the other day i wasted THREE HOURS of my life watching this terrible REBEL MOON movie and it was so bad id rather shoot myself in the foot with a .22 than watch it again. It had good audience score on rotten tomotoes so i watched it and it was so bad i lost braincells watching it.
Poe was correct in his actions. Killing the Dreadnought early in the movie otherwise that ship would've shot the Raddis out of space like 10 minutes into the movie. When his single level higher commanding officer refused to give him anything, even as simple as "I have a plan, i need time to get it in motion", he took initiative to try something else. When the commander wasn't doing anything, he mutinied to do SOMETHING besides seemingly fly straight until they ran out of fuel.
What we're supposed to feel when Holdo sacrifices herself: Noooo! I'm so sorry for doubting you; you were doing the right thing all along! Please don't die so that we can see you and value you for who you are from now on! What we actually felt: Oh, OK. That's clever. We can take down the enemy ship without disposing of a character we actually cared about. Convenient!
I will never forgive them for killing off Ackbar in such a "off screen" way as if he is a unknown character, not at all befitting such a famous character while this bitch of a character gets to go out in a blaze of glory, they should have swapped them... just imagine Ackbar getting the opportunity to call the enemy ship up and go "HaHAHA! ITS A TRAP!" before smashing it to pieces? Would have been perfect.
Even better, they evacuated the non-living robots like C3P0 instead of having one of them take her place. Even the characters can be inferred to not give a shit about her, and understandably so.
All I was feeling is sci-fi fan rage of breaking logic and universe continuity with her maneuver. Why isn't everyone making hyperspace torpedoes? Why rebels didn't do this with Death Stars? The former expanded universe had a premise that hyperspace travel can never happen near gravitating body. Hyperspace jumps into atmosphere, like Had did in sequels, are not possible. Fleets have trawler ships, that create a field, that not allow to make jumps in their vicinity. On one occasion in a book they interrupt Luke's hyperspace travel by placing a trawler on his known route and capture him.
After loosing the rest of the fleet to lack of fuel instead of...wiping the floor with the wreckage of the enemy´s fleet...hmpff. At least the most hated character in Star Wars died in this scene.
1. Doesn't tell key staff members vital info 2. Antagonizes an already emotionally charged crew 3. Never instills confidence in a terrified crew 4. Whole plan relies on luck and enemies being incompetent Seriously she probably is a leader who would use human wave attacks, have horrendous causalities and call it a glorious success.
CountJimbo it’s the fact she didn’t tell him what’s going on and keep on saying “Have hope!” And don’t say he was demoted because the fact like we saw a whole lot of people in command being killed in a instance or comatosed. You want the higher ups on board with everything and as we saw, Po did found the idea good when he learned about it. Military’s and especially one that is running a risky plan should never rely on hope that the others won’t find the plan absolutely insane.
@CountJimbo my problem is jimbo while yes poe was insubordinate we have no reason to be connfident in holdo and her plan is shit when revealed. It is literally just lets hope they don't shoot our escape pods and only go after the main ship wtf is that plan why wouldn't they just go onto the planet the rebels landed on and hunt them down in fact it happens anyways leaving the whole arc pointless
1:19 The gall to say he feels he did EVERYTHING right. Even George constantly made changes to the Original Trilogy well after it was released. He constantly felt things could be improved. That’s the difference between George and Ryan as a writer.
Another thing Ramsey does is he says "WE don't question EACH OTHER, in front of the crew" It's a great line of dialogue not only is he saying that Hunter isn't necessarily wrong for bringing up concerns or presenting alternatives, either way, Captain or XO
The difference between Poe and Holdo is that Holdo is the commander. Poe’s job is to listen to orders, but since Holdo isn’t one of the 3 protagonists, we see the story in Poe’s pov. You are suppose to think Holdo is in the wrong, you are suppose to think that Poe’s mutiny is the right choice. When Poe realize how wrong he was, you are then force to realize how wrong you were for believing in Poe. I despised Holdo up until the moment Leia shows up and blasted Poe. Maybe you didn’t saw those scene that way, but that’s what is happening. Maybe you just can’t understand how a story is written. Poe really is a reckless pilot, but both Leia and Holdo acknowledge him during the movie. And isn’t it the job of the commander/captain to be the last one on board? How is Holdo sacrifice even close to be self-centered? At no point in the story does she try to do everything herself, she just don’t do what Poe wants, maybe that’s all your problem with the scene?
@@84coti Poe can't follow orders when Holdo refuses to give any. Holdo repeatedly demands blind obedience from a crew that she refuses to communicate with, and we're supposed to be surprised that that same crew lacks the trust that she neglected to build? She treats the crew as tools to be used by herself to further her own sense of self-importance, rather than people she needs to work with to function as a group. To her, Poe was competition, not a crewmate. "Not doing what Poe wants" is a very wide net, since what Poe wants to do is literally anything that could solve this problem. I also notice that you're trying to both excuse her actions by saying "The captain is supposed to go down with the ship!" While also saying she never did those actions. "I despised Holdo up until the moment Leia shows up and blasted Poe." ...So because an OT character showed up and said it was okay, that makes everything better? Holdo is incompetent, she abuses her authority and fails to address any responsibility to the crew. The mutiny was less "right" than it was a natural course of events with a captain that refuses to build trust, and antagonizes their crew.
There’s a saying in the military: the first casualty is your own lieutenant. And he’s usually shot in the back. What’s really ironic about the conflict between Holdo and Poe is Poe’s reaction to the plan once someone finally tells it to him. He accepts it immediately and enthusiastically. This more than any other scene displays the jarring disconnect between what we’re being told and what we were just shown. We are being told “See! Holdo was right and Poe should’ve just obeyed.” But what we saw was a competent, dedicated veteran commander needlessly berated and kept in the dark when a simple explanation would have made Poe her staunchest ally and an effective and energetic executive officer. Good leaders don’t just make good decisions. Good leaders must be able to inspire those around them to implement those decisions. By any metric, Holdo is an abject failure as a commanding officer
@John Babylon And Poe would have followed Holdo even though she was dead wrong! Her plan was predicated on the assumption that the FO was too stupid to scan for small stealthed transports leaving the _Raddus_ . Two problems: 1. Why the hell wouldn’t they? 2. Snoke was a powerful dark force user with ESP, who also happened to have an optical telescope in his throne room, _through which he watches those very transports getting shot down_ . Holdo was wrong about everything, and Rian Johnson is a gaslighting SOB.
because like most feminists, Ryan forgets that a good leader DOES consult his SO and other officers, and discuss at least generalities of the plans with them. It's why they have officers' meetings. That then trickles down to the men through their CO and so on. Authority is about making the decisions: not hiding information. It's why this isn't Warhammer 40k and we don't make 'secret library' librarians the leaders of armies.
Holdo seems like a typical republic commander from the old republic days they cared more about their own glory, feelings and not for the bigger picture. Keeping anybody in the dark yet expecting them to carry the moment is gonna lead to failure
I thought it was weird how the movies had this sense of lecturing you on something, but then either refusing to show it or show something else. Even fixing just that dissonance throughout the movies would have made the movies better or at least enjoyable. In the case of Poe, sure Poe wasn't perfect and the "lesson" ties into that (jumping ahead to do things), but then it completely blunders by essentially saying "Shut up, do as you're told and never question anything. Assume they meant well". Granted, they could use that as a negative lesson to disprove later but they really don't. That principle is left standing. Instead of something positive about how to approach the situation better, they just go on about how Poe was wrong for misinterpreting her and then just leave his development at that
@@darthrevan1281 By the movie her plan actually would have worked. She only had to sacrifice herself because of her own decisions. Poe sending Finn and Rose out on that mission is what ultimately lead the FO knowing about the shuttles. Because the slicer betrayed them and TOLD the FO about the shuttles. If that never happened, the plan would have gone off without a hitch. If Holdo had simply told Poe the plan, Poe never would have sent Finn and Rose to get the slicer. If Finn and Rose never got the slicer, he never could have betrayed them. If he never betrayed them, the FO would never have noticed the stealthed shuttles. If the FO never noticed the stealthed shuttles then Holdo wouldn't have needed to kill herself. Literally everything comes back to holdo being a dumb karen bitch who couldn't just answer a simple question: What's the plan?
Sun Tzu says, "If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, then the general is to blame. But, if orders are clear and the soldiers nevertheless disobey, then it is the fault of their oficers" You know who blame is here.
@Semi tone They probably already have, knowing the kind of people we're dealing with. Anyone with sense would look at that and say "Women serving as officers in Zhou period China? Wow! How remarkably forward-thinking!"
Rian Johnson saying he wouldn't change anything in his script is a slap in the face to all creators. No matter how good you are, no matter how good you think your final product is, as soon as its finished you will always look back at it and find something you can improve. The fucking ego of that statement is infuriating.
This is the exact same mentality George Lucas himself had when he made the changes to the Original Trilogy. Say what you wanna say about the changes, at least the guy never said he was right the first time and had a constant drive to improve his works.
Wasn't like... the one thing every single fucking artist (and I say all artists, really) can relate to is that they can always find flaws within their own works, at least when looking back in an "overview perspective"?
Even if you can't really find anything specific to directly/easily improve you'll at be able to find at least a few things you don't like and want to change because "it doesn't feel right".
The thing is, I'm former Navy, and this whole run pissed me SO MUCH the fuck off. First off, that dreadnought that Poe "jumped in and X-Wing and blew up"? Yeah, in military terms, that's what we call a Mission Critical Target. Basically, if that shit doesn't die, we're fucked. Holdo's entire plan was to get to Crait, and hide out in a former Rebel base. That's fine, makes sense.... until you realize that the whole plan is based on the First Order being complete morons the whole time. Had the dreadnought survived, there would BE no Crait base, at best, there would be the Crait Memorial Crater, because remember, they used the last of the base's shield power to send a distress call, and there literally can't be that many places to search in the Crait system, given that it will become readily apparent at some point that they ditched the larger ships. He then gets complained at for sacrificing pilots' lives. Holdo's plan calls for sacrificing pilots left, right, and center, all because they... can't make the ships turn left with the autopilot? By the way, there's absolute no reason for that whole part, and here's why: Because they're still moving in a direction away from the emptied out ships, so the ships will never contact them, and cut thrusters whenever the fuel runs out. Yeah, they'll still be at speed, but they won't need to worry about the heading or whatnot because it won't ever move any faster. But what REALLY burns me is her refusing to let the crew in on the plan. It is LITERALLY a plan that they lose nothing for telling the crew, and gain massive morale, as well as likely extra hands to make ready for it, since everyone has a vested in NOT DYING. Like, seriously, NO military, of any variety would keep secret from its own crew that "Hey, I've got a plan that makes us all live through this, we just need to get all the fuel from the other ships to the transports at the head of our fleet, and we'll go to this defended location the enemy doesn't know the location of, so we can wait for rescue". It is an insult to me, and anyone that has served, to represent this as good leadership.
I don't have experience, but I do have common sense. And that alone told me that if you are leading people, who are on the run, and time is of the essence, and you need to go somewhere, then TELL THE CREW! Tell them what the plan is, details, and things to help keep morale up. Otherwise, you get them wanting to throw you in a cell and take over, which is something they don't need right now. Had they made her an imperial spy, that would have made perfect sense. But why the hell should we see her as a good leader if she does what the enemy would do? What sense does it even make? Oh, so she can feel better and all powerful because they don't know what she doesn't? She does know blasters in this universe are deadly right? Had Poe just shot her and NOT taken her hostage, it wouldn't be hard. Especially when she doesn't look like she understands the concept of body armor or even look like she's taking this serious. She looks like she's ready to go to a ball.
Now a thing for the plan, apart from the whole idiocy around it already...what if it had worked? They hide on Crait and call for help...nobody answered. So if not for Rey nobody would have been there to get them off that planet till starvation got them...I mean the shuttles didn´t have hyperdrives, or? Because ships that are usually invisible for the enemy, who can easily detect them with an anti-cloaking scan, but does not do it without being asked to that are capable of hyperspace travel...well talk about destroying the entire enemy fleet with hyperdrive ramming or getting everyone out quietly. But I digress, I think they were stranded and the Falcon was the only vessel that even could bring anyone out.
As with many things in the sequels, it's false suspense; the writer hiding things from the audience when there's no reason the characters wouldn't know or say what is going to happen. It always feels unsatisfying, because the mind rushes back to earlier in the story and says, 'Why didn't we know that before?' and there's no logical reason why not. The dumbest thing is, it's exactly the same with the Rey "reveal" - she already knew it, and could have admitted it to herself and others (and thus the audience). Probably why the characters and story come off as so insincere and hollow.
its is VERY clear that the writer had NO (like NONE AT ALL) military training....other than the Dr. Suess Book of WW2. (Im not military but most of my family was....AND even being non military, even I know better. Hel, sniped my brother with a BBgun when we were kiddoes. I out flanked him.)
One strength of military themed stories written in the 1950s and 1960s is the high probability that the writers actually served in the armed forces. As a result the dialogue was usually believable.
PlanetDisco it’s the same reason I like Ringo and Kratman’s novels tbh. Both served in the military, and Kratman taught law of war after serving in command roles for 20ish years.
When I was undergoing officer training in OCS, my instructors used to tell us about how American platoon commanders used to get fragged in Vietnam for being shitty combat leaders. It was always the same issues: arrogance, obstinance and refusal to listen to NCOs, lack of care and consideration for their troops, that sort of thing. They warned us that respect had to be earned, and that throwing our weight around because of our ranks was a surefire way to get shot in the back. Ultimately, rank was kind of like a maker's seal of quality - convenient shorthand of our abilities for those who wouldn't have enough time to assess us themselves (in our military, the only way to get into OCS is to go through basic training just like everyone else and graduate at the top of your class). Just like graduating from an Ivy League school, it carries with it the assumption of competence, but after that initial stage you have to prove that you're worthy of your rank. My predecessor (the guy who occupied my appointment before me) got chewed out by my sergeant major because he "wasn't fit to be an officer". So it's pretty fucking cringe to hear people trying to defend Holdo. She is a perfect example of the kind of officer I was warned never to become. The entire time I assumed she was meant to be the villain and meant to make Poe look good, because he was acting like a good officer - he cared about his troops, and took action when it was necessary, even at great personal risk. It makes sense that lifelong civilians would hold Holdo up as a good example since they also seem to assume that everyone in the military is an unthinking, robotic moron, but that's just indicative of how little weight their opinions should carry. Holdo is a textbook bad officer, and anyone that says otherwise is a fucking idiot.
What's the name of my official reading book that I got from Warrant school? The United States Military Officer? The one that talks about this exact stuff? Yeah, she's terrible.
@@CommanderRex- you are right there are smart civilians that can tell just how stupid Holdo is as a leader without having to know the ins and outs of military command.
Poe's main purpose was to act as an example of "toxic masculinity." Therefore, nothing he does in the movie is right, and he must be knocked down a peg or two or three. Admiral Holdo is an example of a strong female character, and therefore is always right. Its really that simple.
@@laoaidan2400 No, they were written by people with an agenda, who were just looking for platform to preach that agenda to the unsuspecting audience. When I want to hear a sermon, I go to church. A church I trust and that appreciates me. I am not buying a cinema ticket to get preached at by Mrs Fury who hates men and thinks they are garbage. Go woke, go broke.
There was actually a moment during the movie that I thought Holdo would be revealed as First Order spy. No joke. I interpreted her choices as working "against" the resistance.
Funnily, there are a significant number of strong (but consistent) Female characters, both in the 2 1st trilogies and the Extended Universe, that would have fit the role better and more credibly. But I guess the point was just to push another SJW sermon forward, not to portrait a consistent leader of either sex.
Same! She was so bad at being a leader and inspiring confidence in her subordinates that I genuinely thought the film was trying to tell the audience that she was working against the good guys, hence why Poo was challenging her. But no, turns out it was just a combination of bad writing and woke bullshit leftist propaganda shoehorned in to further Kathleen Kennedy's anti-male agenda. Basically that men are arrogant and think they always know best about everything, whereas women with pink hair should be listened to and believed at all times regardless of their actual credibility - especially by *men* who should just shut up and obey women in positions of authority blindly without thinking, even if they have provided no reason to trust them and their orders will result in hundreds of deaths.
That would have actually made logical sense. I'm convinced the movie wanted to be shit: Notice they cut a great scene between Finn and Phasma (Could have been the only good part of the movie).
Could you imagine if Gandalf approached the fellowship in the middle of their journey and then tried to take charge by being as vague as possible with his intentions and belittled the fellowship before ultimately sacrificing himself to kill the balrog?
Развлечения
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Soon as I’m working again mate
Paying your drinks ? Nahh... You need to stop
Watching your videos pisses me off. You make them. I understand the drinking.
Good on ya.
Hank Chinaski reference @ 9:15?
"Purple Haired Space Karen" couldn't have said it better myself.
A woman in a position of power doesn't necessarily mean she's a strong woman.
Right? At least with Leia they SHOWED why she was in that position. She had charisma, guts, and was an intelligent leader who knew how to lead the Resistance. Holdo was simply transferred a rank and spent the rest of the movie showing why she didn't deserve it.
To these people "strong women" means "acts like a sullen, uncommunicative man".
She was strong on her knees.
@@korsekil Holdo is a perfect example of a woman who was promoted into the position where she should not be only because of quotas on women.
Exactly
I don’t mind Holdo being portrayed as an incompetent leader- I DO mind that her leadership is depicted in the movie as being a strong leadership style
i wouldve been better if Leia woke up, ko'd Holdos ass and said 'fck that imcompetent bitch, let's do it my way. Poe get in your ship and try to create..." while some old school star wars theme is playing
Well, thats female leadership. All the female bosses I have had act exactly like Holdo.
"I need X project finished by the end of the week"
"Its not possible"
"It is because i am ordering you to"
"That's still not possible"
"Are you aware that i am your boss?"
@@ChaosAngel667 curiously, none of my female bosses have been like that. Some of the male ones have, though. Maybe it’s just bad leadership, and doesn’t really have to do with gender?
@@SJ-ym4yt Where are you from? I am from mexico and we are currently ongoing a third wave feminism explosion.
Women at college are taught to be domering, outloud and see all criticism against them as sexism.
Basically all the traits from toxic masculinity they supposedly hate so much.
So women enter the workforce, they feel entitled to a leadership position because they have college degrees and because women can do better than men. So when they face reality they think they have starting job positions because discrimination even if men start on those positions too.
Then when they finally get leadership positions they let out their frustrations on their coworkers, which means they are never ascended again, demoted or even fired. They blame sexism and learn nothing from it.
Yes, not all women are like that but my field which is software development is very male oriented so women who get into this field think every male around them is looking down on them or as the drunk guy on this video says:
They see the worst on people and as result they bring the worst of people.
@@ChaosAngel667 Interesting post. I didn't realise things were quite so bad in Mexico, which is obviously commonly portrayed in Western media (both fictional and non) as highly conservative. Then again, I shouldn't be surprised. The agenda has extended well beyond the confines of the West, from which came the neo-Marxist philosophies at the heart of it all.
I remember thinking she was a spy or a traitor. Literally nothing she said or did made sense as it seemed like she was _trying_ to ruin everything. But no. She was just beyond incompetent and belitting. So brave. Much stunning.
Spoilers!!!
I actually felt happy when she died at the end, it was like removing one of the worst villains of the series.
@@elielbourrelly9902 My reaction to her death was along the lines of this.
"Well, at least you did one thing right you dumbass."
@@Doomlovesearth2 oh yea... tho it would have been better if they didnt introduce the most stupid lightspeed exploit never used before.
I litterally cringed watching that, even tho it looked good.
Oh, and happy new year!
@@elielbourrelly9902 That was my reaction when I saw that scene in the movie as well.
"Wow. That's a pretty visual."
*10 seconds later*
"Wait. If this is a thing that hyperdrive can do, why has no one ever done this before?"
@@elielbourrelly9902 Also happy new year to you too. :)
"Purple-haired space Karen". This guy cracks me a smile each and every time.
Ditto, this channel popped up in my feed and I'm glad it did!
"Admiral Gender Studies" is another good one I've heard.
if it has crazy colored hair it is immediately dismissed.
Why women do this to themselves is beyond me.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who saw that
Purple hair liberal clown
"Purple haired space Karen."
That is the perfect way to describe her character
Pink
@@PrincessMavenKittyDarkholme It’s like a lavender for me
I always liked Vice-Admiral Gender Studies, but Purple-Haired Space Karen is priceless.
Like I always say, you should never give Cartman or a Karen real authority over anyone...
😆😆😆 nailed it!!!
I can never get past Holdo's outfit. Is that really an Admiral's uniform? She looks like she's dressed for a gala opening at an art exhibit. Just needs a glass of red wine.
I guess the idea was to copy Mon Mothma but she at least left the military tasks to Admiral Ackbar.
Mon Mothma wore robe looking attire, Purple haired Karen looked as though she just rolled out of bed wearing her PJ's.
They put her in a dress for the SIKE purpose of the moment where Poe negatively comments on her dress to a fellow rebel. The SECOND I heard that line, my ears pricked up because I was like “hold up, they’re trying to make Poe a sexist? When he respects the hell out of Leia? And he’s made zero sexist comments in TFA? WTF is this character assassination?!”
@@shazattack3711 Mon Mothma was also a civilian leader, not a part of the military chain of command.
@@dragonknightleader1 My point is that Mon Mothma looked normal in her low key styled civilian clothing.
The Karen Holdo on the other hand look waaay out of place with her attire. To the point I kept thinking WTF every time I seen her on screen.
I love how they were forced to retcon the "Holdo Maneuver" in the next movie by saying it was a one in a million shot. Meaning she gambled the entire resistance on a near impossibility.
It also told me that she was being an S-Class coward.
And then in that movie, one of the shots of a planetcracker star destroyer being destroyed showed that someone else pulled the same maneuver.
Which makes her a hypocrite considering she chastises Poe for betting the resistance on bad odds.
Sounds like an attempted reference at the Death Star destruction torpedo shot by Luke.
@@Dowlphin Didn't that rely on the Force?
She's the difference between being a leader and being bossy.
Shout out to critical drinker for liking comments 3 years later.
This was just an excuse to talk about crimson tide wasn't it.
You say that like its a bad thing!
As it should be.
Maybe but who wouldn't? Movie is a classic
Drinker recommends + Last jedi slam in one video = perfection. Also I've never heard of Crimson tide but it sounds fucking awesome and I'm on my way to check the movie out.
that movie was one of Tony Scott's absolute best....when the Scott brothers Tony and Ridley were at their best they made some of the best thrillers ever made and even when you could paint their movies as action schlock a lot of those had tension as well.....
😈
*another ship blows up*
POE: "What's the plan, Admiral?"
HOLDO: "Are you questioning my authority because of my purple hair???"
*another ship blows up*
POE: "Just tell me there's a plan."
HOLDO: "It's because I'm a WOMAN, isn't it?"
*another ship blows up*
The Last Jedi, Holdo (to Po): "You have bet the survival of the resistance on bad odds and put us all at risk!"
Episode 9: JJ retcons Hyperspace Hulk Smash right back out of existence by having Po say, "Come on. That move was one-in-a-million."
So Holdo in TLJ was about to perform a maneuver that had a one-in-a-million chance of succeeding. How's THAT for "bad odds?" Lol.
@Crash Hash I dont thing you cleared anything. Holdo was written and portrayed exactly as she was intended to be.
@@KneelB4Bacon That's actually hilarious. The "one in a million" retcon means Holdo was trying to run away but got very unlucky.
@@KneelB4Bacon It's obviously, that Holdo was trying to make a getaway by using hyperjump. But as usually she f*cked up everything and instead did a kamikadze-type run! What an idiot! Great military leader my ass!
It's geniously.
After 9 years in the army, when I first saw this movie I assumed what any person who had a shitty leader before would assume...that she is working for the enemy. The entire movie I was waiting for the reveal that she was an agent of the bad guys. Imagine my chagrin when it turned out that not only was she one of the "good guys", but that she was also somehow vindicated in her decision making. Wtf?!
I don't know what is the common experience in the Army but I did comment here that as a Marine Corps veteran this type of autocratic and belittling leadership style is more common than it should be. I had a squad leader who made us completely rearrange our pack style and when I asked why I couldn't put thing the way I wanted his response was "because I said so" over and over again, like Holdo.
When asking about this to other veterans on reddit, namely Army and Marine Corps, it's apparant that many see this leadership style as acceptable as long as it's a lawful order and they are of a higher rank or billet than you.
Do as you're told, scrub. Blind allegiance. That's what leadership is all about, right?
Sure it is Lucasfilm. Sure it is....
I know guys from Vietnam who only made it back because they disobeyed bad leaders. And I know guys who made it through Iraq because they followed good leaders. Decide for yourself whether "just following orders" is the right thing to do.
@@joelfenner Unfortunately it's because I thought for myself that I was kicked out of the Marine Corps.
I had leaders who bullied me for being celibate. Constantly pressuring me to have sex and said I was wrong for having an issue with it. That telling sex stories "raised morale". Actually what really got me forced out was I had a platoon and company CoC obsessed with the buddy system. Never go anywhere by yourself, even if you're a corporal, even short distances on base. It wasn't logically possible to obey these rules but they did they acted like I had to and acted like I was bad when I didn't even though they themselves disobeyed these rules. My Sergeant in particular was basically a stalker and said I had to be literally next to someone with the platoon at all times. Eventually I became suicidal and was forced out.
Was this my fault?
@@lightorchestrator Nope. You caught a raw deal. You're not alone. Don't blame yourself. It's not like there was a "good" choice the way you describe it.
Finding someone who is an honorable leader is rare. You're happy to follow if you get respect and support in kind. You'll go farther and do more. It is actually possible to be inspired by someone who has something to offer. But just being told you have to respect someone because of rank or position creates headaches if they only see you as a tool to use and nothing more. Following dumb orders doesn't build anything except resentment.
"Best-worst" story I collected personally was from a dude who came back from Vietnam alive and in one piece. But he only got back because he and the rest of his unit basically mutinied and "incapacitated" an insane 20-ish new CO who wanted to make a name for himself by ordering the whole unit on a sewer-side mission (literally a "Let's go find and ambush Charlie" thing he dreamt up himself without orders). The CO had them all court-martialled, and they were given a choice between a dishonorable and Leavenworth. They all chose discharges, and found ways to get on with their lives in spite of being "marked". Could have been worse. Could have been better.
As far as I'm concerned, not a one of them chose wrong, except the CO.
@@joelfenner The incompetent CO would have betrayed the entire company just to save his own skin if he got captured by the Viet Cong once his rickety biplane crashed
The contrast between her and Leia is ridiculous.
If you look at the briefing Leia gives the X-Wing pilots just before they evacuate Hoth, she does everything right; she's confident and authoritative in her superior position without in any way denigrating theirs, tells them exactly what they need to do, tells them exactly why they need to do it this way, responds to a perfectly reasonable question ("Two fighters against a Star Destroyer?") by calmly showing that command's already thought of that and has measures to stop it being a suicide mission, asks if anyone has any questions, and sends them off with a respectful "good luck" with a tone of "yes, this will be dangerous, but your odds are decent" rather than "we need a miracle."
Even the appearance, costume and body language is a contrast; Leia's a head shorter and the only woman there (and a young, pretty one at that), but her eye contact and commanding tone of voice are direct and clear without being overcompensating, she appears confident but not overconfident, and her purely functional clothes and hair broadcast that, even though she has a higher rank and is addressed as "princess", she is very much one of them.
Compare this to Holdo; despite being unusually tall and a more believable age to be in command she has absolutely no presence, her facial expression and tone of voice somehow manage to communicate both arrogance and "I'm totally out of my depth" at the same time, and both her coiffure (extra noticeable due to its ridiculous colour) and the floor-length gown that we see she needs to pick up to manage stairs (seriously, what kind of idiot designs a military uniform that will trip its wearer?) broadcast that she is not a soldier, she is a queen, and expects to be treated as such by the peasants.
Really great analysis, well done.
Look at the clone wars. Ashoka was an annoying, bratty Palawan at first. But eventually she grew into a better character and actually leads by example
Totally agree 100% on everything you said.
She honestly could’ve been a perfect foil to Leia, a love-hate relationship between them perhaps
When I first watched this movie, I thought Admiral Holdo was a villain. When the imperial fleet followed them through lightspace, I thought it was because Holdo was an Imperial spy. "Brilliant!" I thought. I was so fucking confused when that turned out to be not true.
That would have been a "twist" that was common, yet made sense. After all, all the signs pointed to it. When they pull the rug out from under with "um akshully she was good and selfless and you are once again the bad guy for trying to get people killed" When he genuinely thought he was going to save the rebellion, based on every bit of information he and the audience is given. It's like in an effort to be different, they really just made a situation that's pointless and unsatisfying.
DUDE!!! Same here!!!
@@dakat5131 every choice in the movie in the nutshell.
See, I kind of thought the same thing too at first. The way she acted and did little made me think she was intentionally sabotaging things so the First Order could catch them. That actually would have been a pretty good idea there and would have made more sense about her character. Unfortunately, Round-Head Rian Johnson is complete hack who wouldn't know what to do with a creative idea if it was handed to him on a silver platter. The Last Jedi is proof of that.
@@dakat5131 Well, if there's one thing ''Ruin'' Johnson is good at it's subverting expectations.
Worst leadership displayed on screen since Lt. Gorman in "Aliens" Poe asked a simple question: What's the plan?" You fail as a leader if you are unable to communicate with your crew and would rather antagonize and belittle one of the best soldier in your army just to make the point that you are a strong female and won't be mansplained what to do when Poe didn't even challenge her authority at first. He only asked what was the fucking plan. That's the most legitimate question to ask your leader in that situation.
But Gorman learned
@@RFSA180 Clearly inexperienced and in over his head. But started to build competence.
HEY Gorman wasnt actually a bad leader he lacked combat experience and was heavily dependent on the combat veteran Sarge but when he got taken out and people started dropping like flies he froze. Then later in the movie he didnt try and take back his command he step aside and let the Ripley and the other combat marines take charge. He had enough brain power to realize he was out of his depth. Gorman wasnt a great or even good leader but least he was smart enough to step down and let those with more experience call the shots.
@@fangwhiteclaw7089 Yes, Gorman had a plan, but no experience. He also had a shitty Sargent. The Sarge let the troops interrupt and bullshit when Gorman was briefing the upcoming Op. The proper reaction would have been to stop the briefing and have a little talk with the sarge. Is this the rabble you call your squad? Is this what you are offering me for this Op? Will you keep them in good order and discipline, or do you want me to do that for you? Etc. But of course Gorman lacked that experience too. Most of the audience missed that too and liked Sarge, becasue he was a "character". The pointof all of this, I think, is that the EEEEEEEEEEEEVIL corporation sent a shitty squad destined to fail on purpose. (Gorman got wounded, not sure when he gave up command)
Rule 1 of leadership: EVERYTHING is your fault
She was so terrible that no one mourned her 'sacrifice' in the end. They were just so glad she was gone. Alternatively, if Admiral Akbar was there, and had made such a sacrifice when all else failed, damn, what a massive character boost for him and the franchise. Every kid at Halloween would have been Adm. Akbar! No, they just blew him up with no fanfare, not a word of mourning. Pathetic. They really did try to kill the childhood of millions of adults who loved the first three movies. It's like they hated their own audience.
I laughed out loud in the theater when she did the “maneuver”.
They really do hate us.
Holdo was a perfect image into how the matriarchy at Disney works, - poisonous and condescending, and both abundantly delivered from behind a smiling mask.
Rey is KK's image of herself, Holdo is what she's really like.
I would not be surprised if Holdo is what KK is really like.
The Force is Female.
I think Hondo is more the image of people who tied to do feminism without knowing anything about feminism
@@imperatricedelaconstellati8523 Which part of feminism would that be?
The support of eugenics theory, vandalism, pipe bombings, and incitement to riots of the Suffragettes?
The American prominent feminist front figures of the 50'es, serving in double roles as leaders of the Women's KKK?
Or the ties to the Nazis, that defined leading french feminists of WWII, who served as the Nazi regimes propagandists?
Or just the suggestion to reduce the male population down to 10% in the 60'es and 70'es, effectively global scaled genocide?
Or the more current suggestion of placing all men in concentration camps, that surfaced in The Guardian in the last decade, and were hailed across the entire global feminist landscape for weeks?
Because it is blatantly obvious that no feminists teachers or professors teaching in the Women's Studies classes today, ever bother to teach their young female students about the true history of feminism, - since their wages are dependent on keeping the gullible and easily manipulared showing up by way of an entirely one-sided victim narrative, that frees them from all personal responsibility and accountability, - so those are all immensely fair questions, agreed?
You know, when you spend 15 years of your life, carefully sifting through every aspect of feminism and its history, it's the most 'amazing' things you come across...And I mean that in the most sarcastic way possible..
@@imperatricedelaconstellati8523 Holdo is the reality of feminism, contrary to the lies feminists tell themselves about feminism.
The fact that the writers thought that Holdo was a likable character is insane to me.
But she has pink hair.
The fact that Holdo was played by Laura Dern, an respected actress and past muse of David Lynch is insane to me
Not writers, but writer. Rian Johnson was the sole writer and director. And by some accounts, it was the first draft as well.
@@devonmiller8255 Kathleen Kennedy is a woke feminist who has earned her place in the dumpster fire. Rian has to make her happy somehow with poor writing.
That's another thing I have always found interesting. The Last Jedi is the only Disney Star Wars movie to not replace either the writer, director, or both during production. And Rian Johnson was the sole writer and director.
Poe actually came across as a smart and competent character most of the time despite the script's attempt to demonize him.
No wonder Oscar Issac is hating this trilogy. Good thing in Dune, he shines more.
Seriously, all his decisions make complete sense. He knew that this was probably their best chance to destroy the dreadnought, and so made the tough decision that about 50 pilots, and a couple dozen bombers that honestly belonged in the scrap heap, were worth destroying the dreadnought. When holdo wouldn't tell him her plan, he made the decision to send two men to try and get a hacker that could disable the tracker, and save the resistance. When holdo still wouldn't tell anyone her plan, and were preparing unarmed, unshielded transports, he did the most logical thing he could when he thought his commander was leading them to their deaths, he mutinied, and if you look at poes mutiny crew, you can even see members of the bride crew there, which means she didn't even tell her staff the plan, she just wanted blind obedience from everyone
@@margarethmichelina5146 I have good news for ya, He's gonna be apart of the MCU.
Its because its what the writers see to be bad-guy material. They despise competence and questions and being helpful.
They see it as toxic masculinity and the capitalist patriarchy.
If they try to make a character look bad in their eyes it will be the opposite to normal people :D
Disney had their woke pervert agenda to hold to, and thats all that mattered
And what's worse is that Holdo's plan ended up being terrible. Thanks to her plan they lost two ships and ended up getting themselves cornered by going to a base that had no exit and the only chance of survival was to win a head on fight despite being outmanned and outgunned
And only being saved by Mary Sue at the last second while Luke just dies...
As a kid watching this, i genuinely thought holdo was going to be a twist villain. That was how she seemed characterized, and i was seriously confused when she turned out to be “the hero”
I fully agree. I expected her to be an egotistical and dumb „leader”, who always things she’s right and everyone are just „stupid”, so i has expecting that when Lea will be concious again, she will berade Holdo of what she has done, but NOPE. Holdo was in the right the hole time and everyone where just dumb. You know when one of the first scenes of the movie shows a bomber drop bombs in THE VOID OF SPACE WITH 0 GRAVITY, you know the movie was writen by a child
@@graveslayer9666 the bombs falling made sense because objects that have velocity maintain velocity within the void of space.
That doesn't excuse the fact that the bombers suck anyways but moving on...
I mean, we just had 2 years of our leaders telling us to: Close down your businesses. Wear a mask or don’t leave your house. Get vaxxed or lose your job. And if you refuse any of this then you are a bad person. We’re supposed to accept that as good leadership.
@@trouper206 it is.
@@LineOfThy 1. I wasn’t talking to you 2. You clearly missed the point of this video 3. That is horrendous leadership
“Purple-Haired Space Karen” .....Best assessment EVER.
Beat me to it 😆
ROFL!!!
Haven't even seen the movie and STILL she gave that off lol!
Indeed!
New nickname accepted pilot. From now Admiral Horrible will be referred to as Purple Haired Space Karen.
Let's be real here: the ONLY reason any people defend Holdo is because she's a woman. If a male general had treated a female captain with the same disdain, arrogance, and pettiness that Holdo showed to Poe, that general would be rightly called out as a toxic, ineffective bully.
I had a friend (male) who defended all of holdos decision. He is no feminist, quite the opposite. He said she is in charge and she is right.... Maybe he is just stupid. Don't know like I said, I had a friend.
You spelt wamon wrong
@Zoomer Waffen except the op is right... Feel attacked much?
@@o0neill to be fair, the way she acts is not just indicative of Karens... it's also what the ACTUAL definition of 'toxic masculinity' is (because it's not really masculinity, it's petulant arrogance demanding submission, which is what many men who are immature in themselves and grow up to be 40-year-old toddlers do). The movie actually accidentally shows that it's not toxic MASCULINITY, it's toxic PEOPLE that are the problem. All while trying desperately to paint Holdo as a saint and the intelligent, totally justified Poe as toxic >.< lol
@@o0neill To be fair, she did have responsibility over the bomber crews, who Poe got all killed - but if Poe hadn't taken out the Dreadnought, it'd have bombarded them and finished them off in short order during the chase later on. And Poe did get demoted - but she still overeacted.
the fact that there are people who genuinely thought Hodo and Rey are good characters is absolutely insane.
Sometimes, it's the little things.
I was doing post checks one night and found one of my guys head bobbing. Making a valiant effort to remain alert and attentive, but losing the battle.
So I relieved him of his weapon, told him to get some air, grab some coffee, hit the head if he needed, and stood his post for about 30 minutes.
I could have just been chickenshit, and written him up, but I didn't.
At the end of the day, leadership is like taking care of your feet. If you don't, you're not going anywhere.
You take care of your people, and they will work miracles for you.
"You just don't like her because she's a strong woman."
As a person raised by a single mother, that statement would sound utterly ridiculous to me. I know a strong woman when I see one, and Admiral Holdo doesn't count. In fact, my mother thinks she's an idiot.
Great comment
You know, the sick irony is that they have projected their own tendency to hate someone for being a white male (or even black male depending on the situation) onto everyone else. It's not that THEY are bigots, it's that everyone else is a bigot. It's deeply frustrating to me because I know their intentions are basically good. But their unwillingness to self-reflect and grow, and instead ruin everything with their toxic mentality, has created such a painful dissonance in the left.
I wish I could call myself a feminist, I much prefer the company of women, and in my experience the pride and anger of men creates as many if not more problems than the heavily emotional responses women tend to have toward all situations. But aligning myself with such open bigotry that is rivaled only by literal hate groups like the KKK... I just can't do it.
@@skeetsmcgrew3282 Not all of the left thinks like that. I'm just as disgruntled with these people as you are and I absolutely agree with you. People like Admiral Holdo (basically Karens) are adding to the problem by reinforcing the gender divide with their sexist tendencies, ignoring non-binary and transgender people completely, and declaring anyone who disagrees with them an enemy. They're very toxic people who are making those who actually want to make a positive impact on society look bad.
"You just don't like her because she's a strong woman."
Me, an intelekshual:
@@Shinobito1 Yep, absolutely.
My belief is that Holdo’s character is unwittingly a demonstration of Kathleen Kennedy’s management style in charge of the sequels.
This.
I have doubts that this was not on purpose. She is like every toxic "bossgurl" I've ever worked with. That can't be a coincidence.
I read somewhere that the annoying droid in the Han Solo movie was originally a parody of her too, and that’s why the directors were fired. Not sure how true it is though.
I saw a meeting of the minds behind the films once. Kennedy was in attendance. Most of the time, she's been trying in some way to usurp the meeting. Especially when someone else was talking
Lol I can imagine Oscar Isaac (Poe) yelling "Tell us we have a plan!!"
'Crimson Tide' is a masterpiece...i couldn't decide which of the two main characters got my sympathy...both had their reasons for their actions and both of the characters were superbly portrayed...what a movie!
I’m normally not one to comment, but my therapist is really encouraging me to share with you how immensely helpful your commentary on the Disney “Star Wars” movies has been for my personal healing process. So yeah, I just hope you know the impact of the work you’re doing because, although everyone’s recovery will inevitably look different, I’m sure many others feel the same way. Thank you.
And here I thought the British Sense of Humor was dead. Excellent!
Poe: "What's the plan, Admiral?"
Holdo: "Is that a personal attack, or something?"
I see what you did there
Larsonning the answer 🤣
@El Presidente No that was a microaggression.
Trans red haired woman: it's ma'am it is ma'am!
Holdo: "I want to speak to your manager!"
Poe: "You are my manager."
Holdo's head collapses in on itself due to the power of the resulting internal conflict.
@Teddygalbis lol the mantra of trump supporters: We don't need to question, he said believe me it'll be great.
The reason none of these characters act like adults is because they were written by a man-baby.
TLJ is a shitty, terrible, awful movie.
Johnson has made good films in the past. I thought Brick, for instance, was clever. (I thought Knives Out was a derivative, obvious murder mystery, but still better than TLJ) I think the man can write and direct an interesting movie, in his wheelhouse. This movie was so wildly OUT of his wheelhouse that I can only surmise that he agreed to take heavy notes from Kennedy in order to get the job. The movie fails on every level, and it seems all in service of the gender politics. I've seen his writing for female characters. Nothing approaches this. He may be a man-baby....but I don't know that this shitty movie proves that.
It's kinda hilarious how much of a sensitive little bitch he is. For all his talk about "man baby dude bro fans", he is constantly bitching on twitter about any criticism of his story.
a round-headed-man-baby!
It reads to me more like the result of a man who spends too much time on Twitter and thinks that is a normal way to act.
You were trying to say a Woman?
One cool fact about Gene Hackman in Crimson Tide; he’s actually a former Marine so that natural sense of command came a little naturally to him.
He is a Marine. You have to be a lot worse than Holdo to earn the title of former Marine.
@@fishingthelist4017 Hooah, Chester Pulley!
Reason why Poe was supposed to be wrong is kinda weird because Poe was right and mature while holdo was behaving like a baby who had a problem with good command so Poe was wrong because he… started a mutant he had all right starting because he was given no instructions on what the plan was and was shouted at for asking a question wow great story rian
Exactly. General Patton always communicated his plan to his officers
“Animals have bright colors to warn others nearby of their toxicity”
Only to predators
Purples not bright
@@lasercat3542 Everything seems like a predator when you act like a perpetual victim.
@@lasercat3542 ok karen
I dont love holdo but your argument is stupid and somebody should tell you.
To anyone who defends Holdo as a leader I just say this: Any leader that has managed to lose control due to a mutiny has completely failed as a leader. When you've lost the respect of enough of your crew that they can successfully overthrow you, you've lost any right to call yourself an effective leader. Also a note to Mr Johnson...SHOW DON'T TELL, it's all very well telling us that Holdo is this great military leader but when she shows no examples of being a competent leader, well it's almost like that's a complete fabrication. I'm pretty much convinced Holdo was just some wealthy senator's daughter who bought her position with daddy's money.
You know Holdo is Zapp from Futurama played straight.
At the US War College they teach a class on really bad military leaders. I understand that Admiral Holdo is prominently featured.
Imagine being such a shit leader that everyone thinks you're a mole for the enemy. Not one decision she makes is correct.
Holdo: No. I am a leader, I’m the best leader. I knew there was a spy, and it was me. I was the best spy, the greatest even. Remember that time I rammed the First Order? That was my only mistake. I was trying to get away from the shuttles so they couldn’t circle back and got the hyperspace lever and the gas lever wrong. It was my bad. Totally wrong. But at least I got a manoeuvre named after me. My name is now famous and no one knew I was the spy.
Anyone who defends Holdo as a leader has never been one, nor ever known one.
Despite loving Hackman, Denzel, suspense, and military movies for many years, today was the first time I saw Crimson Tide, largely through watching this review a while back and putting it on my watch list. WOW, what a great film!! Thank you, Drinker, you loquacious scholar.
I remember absolutely hating Holdo and rooting for Poe the whole movie. Then Leia sided with Holdo and I was extremely confused. Like, was I supposed to be rooting for Holdo this whole time? That's when I realized this movie was absolute shit and I regret ever watching it.
Leia regained consciousness and they just started having drinks laughing lol.
Holdo: "Just follow my orders and we'll be fine."
Poe: "Ok, what're your orders?"
Holdo: "Listen here you little..."
you summed it up perfectly
It's sad that Poe had legitimate reason to remove her from command but the movie treats it like he's having a temper tantrum. But what can you expect from a writer like Johnson that has no grasp of how military officers are supposed to act.
@@MrDevious88 Don't forget the overarching narrative of trying to belittle men and portray them as ranting, dangerous creatures.
I cant tell him the orders cuz he might be a spy or whatever.
Look lady, if poe is a spy you have WAAAAY bigger problems, like he's your best fighter, by A LOT, who's gonna stop him?
@@thelaughingrouge If they've got a spy, the ex-stormtrooper would also be high on the list too.
.
Poe's only real mistake was underestimating how terrible those stupid bombers were. To his defense, why the hell did they even have those pieces of trash in the first place?
“Purple Haired Space Karen” - Quote of the Day
Actually, I found "Fucking purple haired space Karen" to be a tad more pithy.
I'm gonna steal and use that name
I will from this point on refer to her as “Purple-Haired Space-Karen” or “Admiral Purple-Haired Space-Karen”
I think I left to take a piss when they said who she was at the theater because I kept wondering why people were taking orders from the clueless bitch in the party dress.
For a while, I thought she was some idiot snob bureaucrat left in charge.
"Admiral Gender Studies" is still my favorite version of the name.
@@Ease54 I dont get them using the name Karen for such a trope. The Karen's I have known have always decent and kind.
Lori on the other hand....
In Iraq, I became a Squad Leader WITHOUT gaining rank. Half my guys, had the same rank as me. Well, a month later, all 5 Squads, yah, all the guys, wanted to be in my Squad, because they respected my effort and drive...
Spent four years in the Navy and can personally speak from experience that "leaders" like this exist in the military -- petty men and women whose only impressions and behaviors left upon those under their watch are the senses that they're simply pure narcissists, prideful of themselves, and enjoy getting high off the scents of their own farts.
In the most minor of circumstances, they just become people who you avoid at all costs or just find annoying when in homeport or while going about doing your daily duties.
However, in the most important of circumstances -- active warfare, combat situations, etc. -- they become the worst people simply because there's constantly a lingering sense of dread that you can't really trust them, and yet you have no other choice.
In the minds of so many, "leaders" like Holdo give off the impression that the only interests they really have at heart are theirs.
And when your life depends on it, your left questioning whether you're going to live or die.
I don't blame Po at all for his actions. I'm glad that purple-haired space Karen died and has never again returned to any new Star Wars media.
Couldnt have said it better, my father is the same way and its just unbearable. Dealing with dumb toxic people is like sucking away my energy, like a prnstar sucking a 🍆😂
I like how they HAD a good leader character that was iconic and loved, Admiral Gial Ackbar, and they didn't fucking use him for anything more than killing him.
ThE pAsT iS dEaD
IT'S A TRAP
The way they unceremoniously had him die off screen threw me off guard when I first saw this. I couldn't believe it. It was one of the reasons why I was so confused about how to feel until the day after when it set in.
Well if he had lived they would've made him as bad as Holdo so I think he was better off dead.
And they absolutely could have used Ackbar in place of Holdo. It would have been a fantastic ending to his story arc
If Holdo was really a “strong woman”,she wouldn’t have to denigrate others just to put on a thin veil of superiority.
Unfortunately many "strong" women ("strong" men too) are just narcissistic bullies who, when someone criticizes their behavior , will say "you just can't cope with a strong woman". Also, when a person is being emotionally unstable and throwing tantrums and unjustly blaming others when things don't go exactly how they wanted they are, in their opinion, not immature and selfish but "temperamental".
War makes not one great and bringing down and belittling others makes not one strong.
General Holdo is a horrible leader. It's funny that's she's supposed to be written as a top-notch commander. Yet, she does not demonstrate any of the 21 laws of leadership. She doesn't hold by any of the 6 pillars of ethics. She's literally like a person who has never lead a person in their life and never did any studying. Holdo is the person that children think how leaders act; selfish, self-serving, and enigmatic towards the protagonist (themselves). She shows so many unethical actions in just the way she withholds information and especially the way she speaks to people.
I agree with the video's summary: It's like this movie was written and directed by a child. These behaviors are totally outside the realm of reality and not like 'it's impossible' but more-so that it makes absolutely no sense anyone in Holdo's position would be this childishly retarded.
Straight from the feminist playbook
Murgoh well said often I found people mistake being a prick or cunt for “strength “. Trying to create an atmosphere of pressure where their decisions are never questioned. And rightly Questioning it is constructed as insubordination
She is the commanding officer. I do not think anyone would have to say anymore...
Holdo reminded me of my mother growing up. You want to know why you're being told to do something and the response is "Because I said so." Nothing engenders more frustration and resistance in the recipient except for "Calm down." I could understand that maybe Holdo was under a lot of stress and frustrated with the situation (like my mother was) but if I was her, I'd be pleased that I have someone asking questions to keep me from getting tunnel vision, to ensure I was making the best choice possible. If I wanted mindless obedience from my crew I'd get droids.
I was raised like this by my grandfather. But he was a man of à very different time born in 1912 with PTSD from WW2 and WW1 for loosing his parents to it, and was emprisoned in a siberian gulag for 5 years after the war. So when my daughters were born I vowed not to do the same thing. It maybe take more time but it's better in my opinion.
Absolutely spot-on analysis.
Poe: What's our plan?
Holdo: *explains the whole plan*
Poe: Ok
The End
Doesn't need to be the entire plan either just a brief summarization no specifc details or locations or people but just the outline of the plan she could do that and her subordinates would still understand her commanders intent and thats whats most important. The fact she couldn't do that is nothing short incompetence.
@@808INFantry11X Yeah. Something like "The main plan is this. Your bit is this. So focus on getting these done so the rest of the plan succeeds." Done and done.
@@Ealsante and the rest of the plan can be filled in when they proceed pass certain phase lines in a mission. Its often what happens in the military if the operation is relatively classified or there is unknown variables you creat a loose plan often you will brief your troops and advise them that this is a soft plan means there will be changes so it let's your troops know at least ok there is changes so keep flexible. The major point to know what the intent to is that needs to be solid.
Don’t ya know? You can’t speak against a woman with colored hair.
@@808INFantry11X Yeah. Even something as simple as "That planet is our objective, and we need to be as close to it as possible" would at least have allowed subordinates such as Poe to do their jobs with a goal in mind, and even to offer suggestions as to how they could delay or distract the enemy to buy time.
The thing is, there was one military in modern era I can think of where orders were kept ultra secret from their own commanders due to security reasons, and that was South Vietnam. And as you might recall, that was an utter clusterfuck.
"Nope. I stand by every choice."
And that is why you will forever be known as the man who shattered the Star Wars franchise.
it was the only way for him to save face.
He's riding that LGBT wagon.
I even found out that there is an entire community responsible for bailing LGBT people out of jail because they get "mistreated". Things like rape and whatnot...you know .... JAIL ?
If that's not backwards favoritism then uhhhh..... What is this actually I'm not even sure what to call this. I don't see any support like that for "normal" people .
If I was in jail knowing this I'd probably identify as LGBT as well!
Ohhhhh, it's as if I've stumbled upon a moral problem that can be abused.... STRRRAAANGE.
have you seen Clone Wars?...
Yeah, that's what everyone said about the prequels. And honestly, I think JJ has done much more damage than Rian. But that's my opinion.
@@MasterYoda389 You have somehow written the most homophobic youtube comment I have ever seen. This is no small achievement.
@@Keira_Blackstone Woowwww
I'm the MOST homophobic person in the world!!!
You found me , thats right! I am the very one !
And I found a common idiot! Man... our luck just isn't the same ! Who's the 2nd most homophobic person? Did you meet em yesterday or like 10 minutes ago?
true story:
there is an infamous scene in this film where Admiral Holdo sacrifices herself by flying through the enemy spaceship at lightspeed, taking everyone on it with her. This moment is completely silent, hoping that the impactfulness of the sacrifice and the imagery is enough to carry it without any audible accompaniment.
When I saw this scene for the first time in the theater, I laughed my ass off and everyone in the theater laughed with me. Because it was so absurd.
This insane character was weirdly stand offish and vague about her plan for a long time, to a point where she ignited a mutiny under her control, and this was all for the sake of setting her up . . . and she dies in the same film she's established in?? Like, what the hell were they hoping for with this character?
@TheCriticalDrinker I really enjoy your critiques and admire your use of film examples. The examples help to elevate your arguments well above other channels and articals that I have seen where the writer or host just complains without offering a referance point or solution. Keep up the good work good sir, you’re doing great things for the entertainment industry!!
Just a little reminder that Rian Johnson killed Admiral Ackbar in the most lame way ever.
Very few people talk about that part of the whole shitty movie.
One of the best admirals in the galaxy, commanding the mon calamari star cruisers capable of taking on imperial star destroyers head on. Provider of the It's a TRAP meme for decades. Killed off screen while Leia supermans it into the ship from deep space.
I FUCKING HATE this movie.
@@the8u9 damn, I guess Rian deserve all that hate, maybe not ALL but the majority, yes
Like a legendary fleet commander would be okay with just one jump and then no fighter screen. He would have been yelling at everyone to make 3 more jumps and get some fighters up 'cause he's not an idiot.
It's a trap
As a veteran, she displays all the leadership qualities I had grown to know and despise
She would have a mental breakdown reading one of Jocko's books. Probably wouldn't make it past page 10. Yet she was responsible for ruining arguably the greatest movie franchise of all time. Strange time we live in.
As a fellow Vet, I agree.
I remember thinking "damn I really don't like this character, this is great acting, I'm gonna love it when she turns out to be evil"
Then she isn't evil? She's just being a cunt.
This whole movie was like this. Everytime they start doing something you think is clever they subvert your expectations and it ends up just being retarded instead.
So, she is a realistic portraut of a military leader?
@@anthonybanderas9930 WHY ARE YOU WEARING HEADPHONES ON YOUR JOG?
Filthy enlisted man!! :(
That's my impression of top brass, still gonna enlist.
I think that it would have been better to have Holdo be the Dolores Umbridge of Star Wars, a character that we just hate with a passion. I mean, I was already getting those vibes while watching the movie, from her actions to even her appearance (just look at her she's even got purple and pink just like Dolores!). I thought they were intentionally trying to make an unlikable antagonist for the heroes to overcome, and I would have liked the film better if they had just stuck to that instead of trying to say that all her actions were justified. And heck, if they still needed the Holdo maneuver, then they could have shown her seeing the error of her ways and choosing to selflessly sacrifice herself to save the resistance. I would have loved this: a character made to be hated by the viewers, only to surprise us all and redeem herself at the end. But instead, we have a jerk cheaply painted as a hero...
"they could have shown her seeing the error of her ways and choosing to selflessly sacrifice herself to save the resistance"
"a character made to be hated by the viewers, only to surprise us all and redeem herself at the end"
Within his context, Severus Snape does exactly that.
I remember having a brigadier general telling my squadron about our potential upcoming orders which included the general game plan as well as the hazards we might incur, which could lead up to, and include, death. Nobody questioned him or thought about mutiny, even amongst us grunts. He was the complete opposite of Holdo. Thank God he was a real man.
I must salute your brigadier general for being such a great leader to your squadron.
"She sees only the worst in people, and as a result, she brings out the worst in them" OMG
Indeed. Such a great line which was absolutely true.
Absolutely.
Sounds like my ex-wife tbh
Bars
@@Mart77 yeah that accurately describes by ex wife as well she thought everyone was crazy and toxic in the end I finally saw that she was the crazy toxic one
I was so hooked on the Crimson Tide synopsis that when he went back to The Last Jedi I felt genuine disappointment.
Me too. Sorry!
Actually, it's funny to me that that's what we're holding up these days. I saw Crimson Tide 15 years ago, when it was a decade old, and I thought they went out of their way to make Hackman's character seem villainous just to ramp up the stakes. For example, he shoves an innocent Seaman against the bulkhead and threatens to blow his brains out to force Viggo Mortensen to cooperate.
Now characters like Holdo make that character seem calm and reasonable.
The whole Crimson tide Hoodwink BS makes me sick . . there are big YTers out there parroting nonsense . . I'v many times recounted the real basis to no avail apparent . . The K129 was in 69 an soviet diesel Golf class soviet sub . . nuclear missile capable . . that at the time was being sold to China as 'old stock' , an clique of the KGB (Suslov & co) . . hijacked the soon to be sold to Chicom sub . . & attempted an false flag attack on US Honolulu naval base (hoping for US retaliation against soviet ally China . . because their friendship was bad or wtf) . . the missiles were launched but the hatch did't open (due to fail safes given to top soviets by US . . for this rogue contingency situation) . . the missiles burned a hole in the bottom of the sub & it sank .
The US with their passive underwater sonar detectors had tracked the sub from its base & heard the explosion . . the CIA Hughes Glomar explorer . . did lift it largely from the bottom aka history . . Nixon went to China with the evidence of Russian attempted back stab & an US China relations thaw ensued .
@@TheCriticalDrinker I don't forgive you , your apology is not enough.
Yes! I am now interested in Crimson Tide and I’m going to watch it!
Poe:
Okay, so we're gonna blow that one up.
Holdo:
[Incomprehensible toxic emotional gibberish]
Poe:
Hm, okay, so we're gonna blow _that_ one up...?
This goes 'round and 'round many, many times.
Holdo would be enough for me to quit the Rebellion, if I didn't know any better.
THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT EXPECT MORE AMAZING VIDEOS SEND A DM YOU HAVE BEEN SELECTED AMONG SHORT LIST WINNERS🎁🎁📦
Yeah, I remember feeling that her character was off. And how it felt like the writers were trying to force me to admire her. It almost felt like when someone gaslights you. Left a bad taste in my mouth. This video explains why I felt that way at the time...
Like qui gon said. “Just because you can speak doesn’t mean you’re intelligent”
"An ability to speak doesn't make you inteligent" to be exact.
Qui Gon is the wisdom we need in the franchise.
@@starhalv2427 Teeeeeeeeeeecccccchnically, it's, "The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
It's actually and I quote, *"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."*
@@zichithefox4781 When Qui Gon Jinn is considered as a well-written character that means our standers went to sh*t.
The only joy found in discussing Holdo in SW is discussing Leadership and Command in Crimson Tide. Well played Drinker, well played!
Yeah, I was thinking he should have done a "The Drinker Recommendeds" episode first.
Crimson Tide really was an excellent film. I'm thinking this really does boil down to a Drinker Recommends video.
@man0z Is this a spectacularly ill judged attempt at 'humour', or are you a legitimate neo-fascist scumbag? Either way, pretty disgusting behaviour. Massed genocide of civilians is not 'true leadership and command' - it is a war crime, and most people are fully aware of the difference.
Crimson Tide is an example of a dumb story executed so well that you can overlook even the most obvious flaws. I mean, Christ, every time Denzel and Gene are together on screen is just mesmerizing that I no longer care that the premise of the conflict is farcical.
Holy smokes I almost forgot just how genuinely BAD The Last Jedi was...
When I watched this film in the cinema, it wasn't until a few minutes after Holdo hyper-rams the star destroyer that I realised she WASN'T an imperial mole!
At every point in the story she works against the interests of the rebels, and Poe was making the right call at every stage, especially in retrospect when the First Order shoots almost all the escape pods.
This video reminds me of a couple stories my grandpa told me about Vietnam. Specifically that the leaders that consistently made bad decisions and put the lives of their subordinates in danger for no reason often ended up with a round of 5.56 sailing through the back of their skull
Holdo was the most successful First Order spy and saboteur ever. She successfully wormed her way into a position of leadership in the resistance. From there, she stalled and waylaid every single escape plan, allowing the entire resistance fleet to be destroyed one by one... until they were down to the Raddis. She then convinced the survivors to get on board those highly vulnerable and unshielded escape shuttles while she sat back on the Raddis, practically serving them to the First Order on a silver platter.
With her mission accomplished, she attempted to move the Raddis out of the way with a safe hyperspace jump... only for a freak, one-in-a-million accident to ruin her perfect plan.
Did we watch the same movie? Holdo had a great escape plan with a high chance of success which depended on the First Order not finding out about it, so she kept it in secret in case one of the rebels is captured, or there is a spy among the crew.
What did Poe do? Went off the ship without his superior's permission and revealed the plan to the First Order, killing lots of people and making the whole plan failed, and that is after he disobeyed a direct order to fall back, which resulted in multiple deaths and many destroyed bombers, which was a big hit on the Rebels, as they lacked manpower and resources for a battle of attrition and making sacrifices to destroy one ship, even if the ship was of great importance.
Poe was directly responsible for dozens if not hundreds of deaths and near-destruction of the entire rebel force, and indirectly caused Luke to die. Holdo sacrificed *herself* to fix the mess he made, while Poe sacrificed *others* to satisfy his need for adrenaline, attention, and egoistic satisfaction.
@@TheByQQ did we watch the same youtube video? or the same movie? poe literally did not leave the ship. that was a different character. that was finn. attacking and destroying the ship with the long range cannons was what saved them in the first place from not being sniped to death, although that was not evident at the time. all of poes actions in the movie were quite clearly in line with what he saw as the best way to preserve the resistance, and admiral holdo literally refused to tell anyone their plan, even their most loyal, and skilled pilot as well as second/third in command. after repeatedly begging the leader that they had any inkling of a plan or way to escape, and being literally denied, he made the decision that for the rebels to survive, the clearly incompetent, unprofessional and indecisive leader who had at every stage displayed said incompetence, unprofessionalism and indecisiveness must be overthrown. not to mention, that to everyone on board, or at least poe, well before the actual escape plan, he found out that the fuel was being diverted to the escape pods. with holdo being so fucking incompetent at keeping her "grand plan" a secret, you can only really conclude that she specifically wasnt telling her plan to only poe, just to be a childish dick.
Maybe the situation was a no-win scenario, with both just reacting very differently? One wanting to go down fighting, the other one minimising casualties? Maybe there is no right way out of it and its the Kobayashi Maru scenario, with every viewer just assuming there is not just a way out, but a RIGHT way out?
@@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681 Nah man, there's an obvious right answer, fill in critical members of your plan or at the very least let them know you have something in the works. Doing so would've prevented Po from trying to lead a mutiny, and would've cut the film time by like 20min.
She's an admiral so all she has to do is tell him that he's grounded and explain that going down fighting while there's a way to escape safely is pointless.
She has no real reason to holdout such information anyway. Giving your subordinates little to no information will lead them to draw their own conclusions, which is not something you want in a high stress life or death situation. I'd expect this type of behavior from a lieutenant fresh from OCS not someone with the rank of admiral.
@@tylerstiegelmeyer161 In heiniesight, it can appear obvious.
But if you see the future, how about throwing him into the brig for disobeying orders before he does anything? Or how about training your soldiers, maybe, follow orders and chain of command? 😆
"Follow my orders without question"
Last time a high ranking officer in Star Wars said that, his clones mutinied and he called it treason.
"It's treason, then"
@@TheByQQ "Good Soldiers follow orders....right?"
Ah that was a great arc
And he turned out to be a traitor dark Jedi.
Pong krell didn't do anything worse than holdo. That's the worst part.
You ever notice that in older movies characters are allowed to be sweaty and gross for long periods of time while these days everyone has to be sparkling and perfect at all times?
Yupp
Toxic is the best way to describe Holdo
Holdo: We're gonna do a thing.
Poe: So, what is the plan?
Holdo: Is that like a personal attack or something?
Brie would agree
They should have had Gouda Larson play Holdo. Would have been a match made in heaven.
Holdo was so pointlessly obstructive to the Rebel's survival that I honestly thought she was a First Order spy for most of the movie.
@@ganymede3141 it's not the actress. It's the writers' fault. They made women say 'woke feminist' things in movies and tv shows.
@@AmirChemE True, but the actress did tons of interviews talking up how awesome her character is, so it's probably safe to say she was on board with it.
I am salty that they killed Admiral Ackbar offscreen and leave us with Holdo
He didn't have purple hair... That was an important necessity to the movie.
Admiral Ackbar was too representative of the White Cephalopod Patriarchy that ruled the galaxy for far too long
Never forget that Tom Kane, who voices Yoda in the animated stuff and voiced Ackbar in TLJ and video games, openly voiced his disgust with how Ackbar was killed off as an afterthought and said 'Who's this Holdo woman? No one cares about her!' and Ackbar's puppeteer Tim Rose actually cried when Rian Johnson made a joke about Ackbar after killing him. Fuck Johnson, he should be flipping burgers somewhere.
as salty as his ocean home world of Mon Calimari
Chun Lo wearing an evening dress. How can you trust your commanding wench if she won’t take her heels off🤪🤪🤪🤪
I remember the "Last Battle" scene from the first Star Wars movie. I remember that in addition to the action, the movie included the radio communications between the fighters, their wing commanders, and the commanders at the rebel base. I remember how the transmission received in the fighters was rough, as it would be in reality, and how the battle was fought according to a plan which everyone was briefed on. Even details like Red Leader keeping discipline by saying "cut the chatter" when Wedge said "look at the size of that thing." War and battles are real business, with strict discipline, careful planning, and no time for nonsense like dying your hair purple, or letting emotions or personal opinions get in the way. Everyone knows, or should know the plan in case a leader or leaders get knocked out. But I doubt a single writer on the new Star Wars ever served a day in uniform, and their only experience with battles is watching "Top Gun" once or twice.
"During a crisis, true character shows" (Helmut Schmidt)
Holdo was so bad as a leader, that I can confidently say I’d rather follow Jar Jar Binks into a fight any day over her.
Hey Jar Jar actually fought his ass off, and in frontal clash field battles, barehand (and foot) against tanks and lasers! I SO wish they went ahead with the Darth Jar Jar arc. It looked terrible back then, but in retrospective, he'd made a more compelling sith mastermind than literally ANYONE in the sequels trilogy.
Yeah! At least Jar Jar won his battle as Bombard General in the Phantom Menace.
If anything, Jar Jar is TOO honest to be an effective leader.
Hell, he should've been the one to ram the ship into the first order, would've been a nice redemption moment for him.
Zing!
Everyone is scared and all looks lost.
"What are we gonna do boss?"
"Shut up, you're a private now! Its a SeCrEt!!"
Never has there been a more inspiring leader.
Also i don't think they can took your rank without disciplinary hearing.
Well, the "its a secret" part would suggest that there is a plan and Po would understand that and wouldn't start a mutiny.
Its kinda incredible how bad the writing was
Even worse than that, she doesn't even say there is a plan. She just tells him to trust her. Without having done anything to inspire trust.
And the people were not scared without reason. They were being massacred. You can't tell people to just sit still and wait for redemption while every nerve in every body screams to either fight or fly.
@@TheEvertw She never said trust her. She said he was the last thing they needed in leadership after his crap got hundreds killed. Thats a bigger massacre than anything Holdo did. And thats not even mentioning Poe's "master codebreaker"plan that got more killed when DJ tattled.
@@phousefilms Just ignore that his plan, which initially got the big "OK" saved them from being turned to tiny bits in the first few minutes of the film. And that his "code breaker" plan was devised because the acting leadership liked keeping secrets from everybody, eventually leading to a near mutiny.
And the "code breaker" crap fell apart because of plot holes, in which the movie was no stranger to.
And Rian Johnson clearly has no concept of how space works, as there was no reason for them to continue exhausting fuel when space offers zero resistance.
Hey man, i just wanted to say thanks for the vid. I just watched crimson tide with my brother because of it, 10/10 what a fucking good movie, have a nice day.
Thank you for breaking down Holdo's ineptitude at every turn. Also for contrasting it with what I believe is a criminally underrated movie, "Crimson Tide". While I was not a Navy man, all branches of military service deal with leadership on a daily basis and unlike a job at Amazon or Walmart, a bad military leader can get you killed very quickly.
For what it's worth, I think Rian does this stuff on purpose. Think about it in this way: if he believes that controversy equals free social media advertising for his project, then what better way to get free ad time than to provoke every single die hard Star Wars fan into jumping online and keeping the conversation alive?
I believe he's even said as much in so many words without ACTUALLY saying it.
Mostly i try to ignore this stuff and speak with my wallet, but aside from his horrific treatment of the Luke character THIS leadership failure bothered me the most. Thanks again for covering it, as it is evident to some of us that you KNOW what leadership is.
The way they acted like she was a hero at the end made me gag
'The Holdo Manoeuver' was a one in a million shot. She was in fact heroically trying to run away and got unlucky.
I discussed this with my coworkers rather heavily. This film's depiction of her made it appear that she might be an FO agent. I couldn't think of any other reason why she would just let them go along like lambs to the slaughter. She wouldn't tell anyone what was going on or what the plan was, something that is ridiculous for a supreme commander. When it tried to turn around and make her the hero, I couldn't believe it. Poe did nothing wrong. He only did what any sane living being would do in that situation. The mutiny was a rational last resort.
Should have been Leia driving that boat. Captain goes down with the ship. Plus Carrie Fisher died so It would have been a noble end to the Character.
@@natethegr8230 they needed leia for that lame ass kylo death scene... absolutely pathetic
@@Tronathon242 I totally thought that too on my first viewing. That she was feeding the fleets coordinates to Hux and that's why they were following them. Only explanation I could think of for her shifty behavior.
One thing that really sticks out to me is the irony of Holdo demanding unquestioning loyalty from rebels. I strongly suspect that the sort of people who blindly follow orders aren't likely to join a resistance.
Goes to show that people don’t understand, especially writers, that loyalty isn’t given. It’s earned.
I think they make it pretty clear in the Rebels cartoon series that 'blindly following orders' is what the Empire does.
Every single time the crew in that show has to act on orders from 'rebel command' they aren't exactly jumping with excitement.
@@NotTheStinkyCheese Drinker is really Agreeable for a Right-Winger,
so i wished he'd collabed with "Some More News" one day. He even
has covered MANY of what Drinker often says in his 'Popcorn Dystopia'-Video.
!
That's an interesting point. I wonder if there's ever been any media showing how difficult it is to lead people who are prone to rebelling against authority. Even just and fair authority
@@slevinchannel7589 I really don't feel like he's a right winger he seems to just have a strong sense of morality and principles. Qualities that shouldn't know party lines.
As soon as i heard you mention crimson tide i saw that it was some sort of war movie I haven't seen before. I was looking for a new movie to watch anyways so i instantly paused the video to avoid spoilers and rented the movie. Good is an understatement, crimson tide is an excellent movie. Thank you for mentioning it I wouldn't have ever known about it without this video.
You should make a video showing some good movies to watch. I sometimes find it hard to figure out what movies are worth my time or not to watch. Like the other day i wasted THREE HOURS of my life watching this terrible REBEL MOON movie and it was so bad id rather shoot myself in the foot with a .22 than watch it again. It had good audience score on rotten tomotoes so i watched it and it was so bad i lost braincells watching it.
Poe was correct in his actions. Killing the Dreadnought early in the movie otherwise that ship would've shot the Raddis out of space like 10 minutes into the movie. When his single level higher commanding officer refused to give him anything, even as simple as "I have a plan, i need time to get it in motion", he took initiative to try something else. When the commander wasn't doing anything, he mutinied to do SOMETHING besides seemingly fly straight until they ran out of fuel.
Well said.
even divorcing poe she also used that to basically insult the crew through him since she acts this way towards everybody effectivley
What we're supposed to feel when Holdo sacrifices herself: Noooo! I'm so sorry for doubting you; you were doing the right thing all along! Please don't die so that we can see you and value you for who you are from now on!
What we actually felt: Oh, OK. That's clever. We can take down the enemy ship without disposing of a character we actually cared about. Convenient!
I will never forgive them for killing off Ackbar in such a "off screen" way as if he is a unknown character, not at all befitting such a famous character while this bitch of a character gets to go out in a blaze of glory, they should have swapped them... just imagine Ackbar getting the opportunity to call the enemy ship up and go "HaHAHA! ITS A TRAP!" before smashing it to pieces? Would have been perfect.
Even better, they evacuated the non-living robots like C3P0 instead of having one of them take her place. Even the characters can be inferred to not give a shit about her, and understandably so.
All I was feeling is sci-fi fan rage of breaking logic and universe continuity with her maneuver. Why isn't everyone making hyperspace torpedoes? Why rebels didn't do this with Death Stars? The former expanded universe had a premise that hyperspace travel can never happen near gravitating body. Hyperspace jumps into atmosphere, like Had did in sequels, are not possible. Fleets have trawler ships, that create a field, that not allow to make jumps in their vicinity. On one occasion in a book they interrupt Luke's hyperspace travel by placing a trawler on his known route and capture him.
After loosing the rest of the fleet to lack of fuel instead of...wiping the floor with the wreckage of the enemy´s fleet...hmpff. At least the most hated character in Star Wars died in this scene.
i actually cheered when she died. I was so happy
1. Doesn't tell key staff members vital info
2. Antagonizes an already emotionally charged crew
3. Never instills confidence in a terrified crew
4. Whole plan relies on luck and enemies being incompetent
Seriously she probably is a leader who would use human wave attacks, have horrendous causalities and call it a glorious success.
Comissar Holdo
and even then, she probably die in an 'accident' anyway before the enemy hits the line.
And then castigate and pull strings to vindictively punish anyone who doesn't enthusiastically agree that she's a genius.
@CountJimbo We all make mistakes in the heat of passion, Jimbo.
CountJimbo it’s the fact she didn’t tell him what’s going on and keep on saying “Have hope!” And don’t say he was demoted because the fact like we saw a whole lot of people in command being killed in a instance or comatosed. You want the higher ups on board with everything and as we saw, Po did found the idea good when he learned about it. Military’s and especially one that is running a risky plan should never rely on hope that the others won’t find the plan absolutely insane.
@CountJimbo my problem is jimbo while yes poe was insubordinate we have no reason to be connfident in holdo and her plan is shit when revealed. It is literally just lets hope they don't shoot our escape pods and only go after the main ship wtf is that plan why wouldn't they just go onto the planet the rebels landed on and hunt them down in fact it happens anyways leaving the whole arc pointless
1:19 The gall to say he feels he did EVERYTHING right. Even George constantly made changes to the Original Trilogy well after it was released. He constantly felt things could be improved. That’s the difference between George and Ryan as a writer.
Another thing Ramsey does is he says "WE don't question EACH OTHER, in front of the crew"
It's a great line of dialogue not only is he saying that Hunter isn't necessarily wrong for bringing up concerns or presenting alternatives, either way, Captain or XO
In the end, Holdo turns out to be everything they tried to portray Poe as: A self-centered glory seeker trying to do everything herself.
Aren't feminist always everything they try to portray men?
@@kuidelu extremists tend to embody many of the things they claim to be opposed to
Yes but it's good when she does it because she's a woman.
/s
Also when she did it she did it right. Poe only triggered a Pyrrhic victory.
The difference between Poe and Holdo is that Holdo is the commander. Poe’s job is to listen to orders, but since Holdo isn’t one of the 3 protagonists, we see the story in Poe’s pov. You are suppose to think Holdo is in the wrong, you are suppose to think that Poe’s mutiny is the right choice. When Poe realize how wrong he was, you are then force to realize how wrong you were for believing in Poe. I despised Holdo up until the moment Leia shows up and blasted Poe. Maybe you didn’t saw those scene that way, but that’s what is happening. Maybe you just can’t understand how a story is written. Poe really is a reckless pilot, but both Leia and Holdo acknowledge him during the movie. And isn’t it the job of the commander/captain to be the last one on board? How is Holdo sacrifice even close to be self-centered? At no point in the story does she try to do everything herself, she just don’t do what Poe wants, maybe that’s all your problem with the scene?
@@84coti Poe can't follow orders when Holdo refuses to give any. Holdo repeatedly demands blind obedience from a crew that she refuses to communicate with, and we're supposed to be surprised that that same crew lacks the trust that she neglected to build? She treats the crew as tools to be used by herself to further her own sense of self-importance, rather than people she needs to work with to function as a group. To her, Poe was competition, not a crewmate. "Not doing what Poe wants" is a very wide net, since what Poe wants to do is literally anything that could solve this problem. I also notice that you're trying to both excuse her actions by saying "The captain is supposed to go down with the ship!" While also saying she never did those actions.
"I despised Holdo up until the moment Leia shows up and blasted Poe." ...So because an OT character showed up and said it was okay, that makes everything better? Holdo is incompetent, she abuses her authority and fails to address any responsibility to the crew. The mutiny was less "right" than it was a natural course of events with a captain that refuses to build trust, and antagonizes their crew.
There’s a saying in the military: the first casualty is your own lieutenant. And he’s usually shot in the back.
What’s really ironic about the conflict between Holdo and Poe is Poe’s reaction to the plan once someone finally tells it to him. He accepts it immediately and enthusiastically. This more than any other scene displays the jarring disconnect between what we’re being told and what we were just shown. We are being told “See! Holdo was right and Poe should’ve just obeyed.” But what we saw was a competent, dedicated veteran commander needlessly berated and kept in the dark when a simple explanation would have made Poe her staunchest ally and an effective and energetic executive officer. Good leaders don’t just make good decisions. Good leaders must be able to inspire those around them to implement those decisions.
By any metric, Holdo is an abject failure as a commanding officer
@John Babylon And Poe would have followed Holdo even though she was dead wrong! Her plan was predicated on the assumption that the FO was too stupid to scan for small stealthed transports leaving the _Raddus_ . Two problems:
1. Why the hell wouldn’t they?
2. Snoke was a powerful dark force user with ESP, who also happened to have an optical telescope in his throne room, _through which he watches those very transports getting shot down_ . Holdo was wrong about everything, and Rian Johnson is a gaslighting SOB.
because like most feminists, Ryan forgets that a good leader DOES consult his SO and other officers, and discuss at least generalities of the plans with them. It's why they have officers' meetings. That then trickles down to the men through their CO and so on. Authority is about making the decisions: not hiding information. It's why this isn't Warhammer 40k and we don't make 'secret library' librarians the leaders of armies.
Holdo seems like a typical republic commander from the old republic days they cared more about their own glory, feelings and not for the bigger picture. Keeping anybody in the dark yet expecting them to carry the moment is gonna lead to failure
I thought it was weird how the movies had this sense of lecturing you on something, but then either refusing to show it or show something else. Even fixing just that dissonance throughout the movies would have made the movies better or at least enjoyable.
In the case of Poe, sure Poe wasn't perfect and the "lesson" ties into that (jumping ahead to do things), but then it completely blunders by essentially saying "Shut up, do as you're told and never question anything. Assume they meant well". Granted, they could use that as a negative lesson to disprove later but they really don't. That principle is left standing.
Instead of something positive about how to approach the situation better, they just go on about how Poe was wrong for misinterpreting her and then just leave his development at that
@@darthrevan1281 By the movie her plan actually would have worked. She only had to sacrifice herself because of her own decisions. Poe sending Finn and Rose out on that mission is what ultimately lead the FO knowing about the shuttles. Because the slicer betrayed them and TOLD the FO about the shuttles. If that never happened, the plan would have gone off without a hitch.
If Holdo had simply told Poe the plan, Poe never would have sent Finn and Rose to get the slicer. If Finn and Rose never got the slicer, he never could have betrayed them. If he never betrayed them, the FO would never have noticed the stealthed shuttles. If the FO never noticed the stealthed shuttles then Holdo wouldn't have needed to kill herself.
Literally everything comes back to holdo being a dumb karen bitch who couldn't just answer a simple question: What's the plan?
This video is why I love The Drinker. His analysis of storytelling top notch.
I haven't seen Crimson Tide in more than 20 years, and now you've made me want to go watch it again. Damn you.
Sun Tzu says, "If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, then the general is to blame. But, if orders are clear and the soldiers nevertheless disobey, then it is the fault of their oficers" You know who blame is here.
Kathleen Kennedy
@Semi tone
And that is relevant to the discussion of Sun Tsuz's view on Leader and solider relationships?
@Emperor's Champion
In what way, son of Dornable ?
@Semi tone
Yeah that makes sense. What is this world coming too
@Semi tone They probably already have, knowing the kind of people we're dealing with. Anyone with sense would look at that and say "Women serving as officers in Zhou period China? Wow! How remarkably forward-thinking!"
She is seriously the opposite of everything I learned in officer training.
Jacob Klein so you learned how to read a 🗺 and use a 🧭?
Bryce Solomon no, no officers no how read maps or use compasses
@@stevemadden3642
/Whoooosh
horsemumbler1 - Found the butter bar
Steve Madden No silly fool that’s only the lieutenants they evolve past that stage once they get promoted after mandatory 2 year ass kissing the co.
11:50 "He who has to say 'I am the king' is no true king."
---Tywin Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock and Hand of the King.
Rian Johnson saying he wouldn't change anything in his script is a slap in the face to all creators. No matter how good you are, no matter how good you think your final product is, as soon as its finished you will always look back at it and find something you can improve. The fucking ego of that statement is infuriating.
This is the exact same mentality George Lucas himself had when he made the changes to the Original Trilogy. Say what you wanna say about the changes, at least the guy never said he was right the first time and had a constant drive to improve his works.
Wasn't like... the one thing every single fucking artist (and I say all artists, really) can relate to is that they can always find flaws within their own works, at least when looking back in an "overview perspective"?
And the reason why he's a shitty director
YES
Even if you can't really find anything specific to directly/easily improve you'll at be able to find at least a few things you don't like and want to change because "it doesn't feel right".
The thing is, I'm former Navy, and this whole run pissed me SO MUCH the fuck off.
First off, that dreadnought that Poe "jumped in and X-Wing and blew up"? Yeah, in military terms, that's what we call a Mission Critical Target. Basically, if that shit doesn't die, we're fucked. Holdo's entire plan was to get to Crait, and hide out in a former Rebel base. That's fine, makes sense.... until you realize that the whole plan is based on the First Order being complete morons the whole time. Had the dreadnought survived, there would BE no Crait base, at best, there would be the Crait Memorial Crater, because remember, they used the last of the base's shield power to send a distress call, and there literally can't be that many places to search in the Crait system, given that it will become readily apparent at some point that they ditched the larger ships.
He then gets complained at for sacrificing pilots' lives. Holdo's plan calls for sacrificing pilots left, right, and center, all because they... can't make the ships turn left with the autopilot? By the way, there's absolute no reason for that whole part, and here's why: Because they're still moving in a direction away from the emptied out ships, so the ships will never contact them, and cut thrusters whenever the fuel runs out. Yeah, they'll still be at speed, but they won't need to worry about the heading or whatnot because it won't ever move any faster.
But what REALLY burns me is her refusing to let the crew in on the plan. It is LITERALLY a plan that they lose nothing for telling the crew, and gain massive morale, as well as likely extra hands to make ready for it, since everyone has a vested in NOT DYING. Like, seriously, NO military, of any variety would keep secret from its own crew that "Hey, I've got a plan that makes us all live through this, we just need to get all the fuel from the other ships to the transports at the head of our fleet, and we'll go to this defended location the enemy doesn't know the location of, so we can wait for rescue". It is an insult to me, and anyone that has served, to represent this as good leadership.
I agree 100%. I was an E7 before I retired from the Guard.
I don't have experience, but I do have common sense. And that alone told me that if you are leading people, who are on the run, and time is of the essence, and you need to go somewhere, then TELL THE CREW! Tell them what the plan is, details, and things to help keep morale up. Otherwise, you get them wanting to throw you in a cell and take over, which is something they don't need right now. Had they made her an imperial spy, that would have made perfect sense. But why the hell should we see her as a good leader if she does what the enemy would do? What sense does it even make? Oh, so she can feel better and all powerful because they don't know what she doesn't? She does know blasters in this universe are deadly right? Had Poe just shot her and NOT taken her hostage, it wouldn't be hard. Especially when she doesn't look like she understands the concept of body armor or even look like she's taking this serious. She looks like she's ready to go to a ball.
Now a thing for the plan, apart from the whole idiocy around it already...what if it had worked? They hide on Crait and call for help...nobody answered. So if not for Rey nobody would have been there to get them off that planet till starvation got them...I mean the shuttles didn´t have hyperdrives, or? Because ships that are usually invisible for the enemy, who can easily detect them with an anti-cloaking scan, but does not do it without being asked to that are capable of hyperspace travel...well talk about destroying the entire enemy fleet with hyperdrive ramming or getting everyone out quietly.
But I digress, I think they were stranded and the Falcon was the only vessel that even could bring anyone out.
As with many things in the sequels, it's false suspense; the writer hiding things from the audience when there's no reason the characters wouldn't know or say what is going to happen. It always feels unsatisfying, because the mind rushes back to earlier in the story and says, 'Why didn't we know that before?' and there's no logical reason why not.
The dumbest thing is, it's exactly the same with the Rey "reveal" - she already knew it, and could have admitted it to herself and others (and thus the audience). Probably why the characters and story come off as so insincere and hollow.
its is VERY clear that the writer had NO (like NONE AT ALL) military training....other than the Dr. Suess Book of WW2. (Im not military but most of my family was....AND even being non military, even I know better. Hel, sniped my brother with a BBgun when we were kiddoes. I out flanked him.)
I nearly cried when this video was over, cuz they way he explained how they could have made it better, was so much better than what actually happened
11:44 -- Man, these two guys shouting over one another - you can feel the intensity of this scene even without the audio!!!
One strength of military themed stories written in the 1950s and 1960s is the high probability that the writers actually served in the armed forces. As a result the dialogue was usually believable.
Heinlein for example was a naval officer
VidMasterEon yes! And that’s why starship troopers is still the greatest military science fiction novel to this day...
"the high probability that the writers actually served in the armed forces..."
Or the director. Or the actors. The draft was a great leveling force.
PlanetDisco would you like to know more?!?
PlanetDisco it’s the same reason I like Ringo and Kratman’s novels tbh. Both served in the military, and Kratman taught law of war after serving in command roles for 20ish years.
When I was undergoing officer training in OCS, my instructors used to tell us about how American platoon commanders used to get fragged in Vietnam for being shitty combat leaders. It was always the same issues: arrogance, obstinance and refusal to listen to NCOs, lack of care and consideration for their troops, that sort of thing. They warned us that respect had to be earned, and that throwing our weight around because of our ranks was a surefire way to get shot in the back.
Ultimately, rank was kind of like a maker's seal of quality - convenient shorthand of our abilities for those who wouldn't have enough time to assess us themselves (in our military, the only way to get into OCS is to go through basic training just like everyone else and graduate at the top of your class). Just like graduating from an Ivy League school, it carries with it the assumption of competence, but after that initial stage you have to prove that you're worthy of your rank. My predecessor (the guy who occupied my appointment before me) got chewed out by my sergeant major because he "wasn't fit to be an officer".
So it's pretty fucking cringe to hear people trying to defend Holdo. She is a perfect example of the kind of officer I was warned never to become. The entire time I assumed she was meant to be the villain and meant to make Poe look good, because he was acting like a good officer - he cared about his troops, and took action when it was necessary, even at great personal risk. It makes sense that lifelong civilians would hold Holdo up as a good example since they also seem to assume that everyone in the military is an unthinking, robotic moron, but that's just indicative of how little weight their opinions should carry. Holdo is a textbook bad officer, and anyone that says otherwise is a fucking idiot.
Lol wtf are you talking about idiot. OCS is officer basic. There is NO presumption of competence when your a butter bar.
@@jetfa9 might want to check which country's military the dude is talking about instead of assuming he doesn't know crap from clay
What's the name of my official reading book that I got from Warrant school? The United States Military Officer? The one that talks about this exact stuff?
Yeah, she's terrible.
Ignorant Civilians you mean the knowledgeable ones can tell the difference
@@CommanderRex- you are right there are smart civilians that can tell just how stupid Holdo is as a leader without having to know the ins and outs of military command.
Hearing comparisons between writing like this make it such an interesting experience. + I get to find out about more must-watch's. Thank you friend! 👍
A magnificent review, Your Drunkenness. Continue thine good work.
Poe's main purpose was to act as an example of "toxic masculinity." Therefore, nothing he does in the movie is right, and he must be knocked down a peg or two or three. Admiral Holdo is an example of a strong female character, and therefore is always right. Its really that simple.
Well, at least Poe didn't get the Han Solo treatment.
Damn, that's kind of cringe of them.
The writers should have let the story lead them instead of trying to lecture the audience.
The sequels were written by simps, that’s why
@@laoaidan2400 No, they were written by people with an agenda, who were just looking for platform to preach that agenda to the unsuspecting audience.
When I want to hear a sermon, I go to church. A church I trust and that appreciates me. I am not buying a cinema ticket to get preached at by Mrs Fury who hates men and thinks they are garbage.
Go woke, go broke.
There was actually a moment during the movie that I thought Holdo would be revealed as First Order spy. No joke. I interpreted her choices as working "against" the resistance.
Would've made for an interesting twist.
But we're talking about 10-year-old Ruin Johnson here!
Funnily, there are a significant number of strong (but consistent) Female characters, both in the 2 1st trilogies and the Extended Universe, that would have fit the role better and more credibly.
But I guess the point was just to push another SJW sermon forward, not to portrait a consistent leader of either sex.
Same! She was so bad at being a leader and inspiring confidence in her subordinates that I genuinely thought the film was trying to tell the audience that she was working against the good guys, hence why Poo was challenging her.
But no, turns out it was just a combination of bad writing and woke bullshit leftist propaganda shoehorned in to further Kathleen Kennedy's anti-male agenda.
Basically that men are arrogant and think they always know best about everything, whereas women with pink hair should be listened to and believed at all times regardless of their actual credibility - especially by *men* who should just shut up and obey women in positions of authority blindly without thinking, even if they have provided no reason to trust them and their orders will result in hundreds of deaths.
I thought she was either a spy from the beginning or was revealing that she had turned traitor.
That would have actually made logical sense. I'm convinced the movie wanted to be shit: Notice they cut a great scene between Finn and Phasma (Could have been the only good part of the movie).
Could you imagine if Gandalf approached the fellowship in the middle of their journey and then tried to take charge by being as vague as possible with his intentions and belittled the fellowship before ultimately sacrificing himself to kill the balrog?
Dude you're a legend. Keep it up!