Holy Reckoning spec for pvp, Talent tree breakdown.
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Someone wanted me to go into detail on my personal Holy Reck spec. There is not much too it but leave it to me to talk for 30m about nothing.
I have 2/3 lasting judgement for certain matchups (shaman, druid, rogue, warrior comes to mind) and 3/3 improved concentration aura for working that 15% chance for interrupts to just FAIL vs rogues and shamans specifically.
hey could u make a video on phase 5 ret gear, wowhead says to go with avengers set but 60 upgrades says to go for fury warr gear, love your vidoes,
thanks
Don't trust that PvE siming shit, pvp has way more tactical considerations that changes a great number of things. Raw numbers on paper are for pve not pvp.
Do you think sanctuary is more useful than holy shock then?
I would say hell fuck and no. HS has way to many better applications such as its good vs casters, you can keep people trying to kite you in combat, interrupt drinking and bandaging, emergency heal yourself if you messed up or RNG has come a nocking.
Only specifically vs a rogue would sanctuary be better but even though HS gets the job done just as well.
So if the choice is HS or BoSanc... go HS. For pve? if you have enough paladins Sanc is better for sure.
@@pallytime2156 still dmg reduction since you get the dmg mitigation regardless of blocking. and if you have 2 paladins in a bg, you can stack the blessings (one casts greater the other casts the normal one).
And you need 6 talents points for HS versus 1 for BoS, and you dont get reckoning.
@@stevenpitera8978 The question was do would I got for HS or Sanc instead. By default this must mean we are talking about a deep holy pally, 5/5 in holy power vs 5/5 reckoning otherwise the question would be Deep Holy or Holy Reckoning... to which I would say "do as you like they are both good"
The question HS or Sanc is more of a pve question since HS and Sanc are directly in contest with each other without sacrificing pve healing potential. To which the answer is "if there are enough paladins blessing wise to warrent having a sanc pally... then take it. If there in 1 more paladin yet still then even better"
In pvp there is no contest, HS is better. Many times there is just no time to cast a heal and you need healing NOW on you or your buddy. Same goes with damage. Keeping people in combat and stopping bandages or eating / drinking is its greatest contribution though... as this is the one great weakness of many paladins builds.
Think of it as "tactically more flexable" though in some cases Sanc is clearly superior.
From alaska to the jungle, now that is a leap and a half :D what do you do besides paladin expertise?
2:50 sounds more like the mathematic model was shit and you found a better one :P
Use this talent since phase two. Also good for pve when have world buffs.
You're running 8p judement with this right? Would it be better to use 3 piece rank 13 gear and 5 piece judgement? I really want to see phase 5 bis for pvp for flurry axe holy reckoning and then phase 6 eventually.. can you please help me out with that? And what would be most optimal, no matter how hard it is toget?
You can use pvp gear and its good but you have lower resists and some stats that don't synergyize well such as crit. More import is that come phase 5 it is hard to go 3 piece 5 piece as you really want an obsidian breast plate as a general rule.
classic.wowhead.com/gear-planner/paladin/human/AjwOBVAxAlAS8FMhEDAzFf-BQjteYAJL4oNCOV9lhVa0TjoGQjiHQjpeYIhCPTZCiUI3TiuKQjxh9wtLsAxYwQ1N7g5Lj49C02H6kANnTkCRVrZOMQ
This is how things change for me early on in phase 5 and obsidian chest and shield are BS items. I would season to taste from there as things go on.
Shield and chest are too expensive? Or just a normal grind? Like 1-2 months?
Details! addon lets you see other player's talent trees
Do you think there is any viability to using a 2-Hander while speccing Holy/Reck? Specifically, not putting any points in redoubt, shield specialization, or blessing of kings, and instead putting points in devotion aura, toughness, and improved wisdom. Let me know your thoughts
You can try it, lord knows we have but its universally considered bad... theoretically it works but you limit your gameplay so much for so little gain most of us don't bother.
@@pallytime2156 That makes sense, I decided not to do it anyways. You're right, the benefit you would get in the form of dps from that 2H is menial.
Talent tree can be checked if you have the details! addon. Details is a classic wow dmg/heal meter about half of my raid has it.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO AHAHAHAHA
So if we used this build for leveling, would we level with a one handed and shield?
I would look up Kargoz for paladin leveling for sure
btw, people can check your talent tree.. so yeah :/ it's pretty rippy, i wish
NOOOOOOOOOOO
Shield spec takes into account the base block damage from a shield or the total block which includes strength and any items (including shields) that give extra block value?
Couldn't say for sure check it out on Classic wow gear planner
I tested it yesterday with a shield that gives block value and I can confirm that it's taking into account the base block + block value. But the extra block you get from strength isn't taken into account
Hey, thanks for the work on all those last videos!
I recently got Ancient Hakkari Mansslayer and had the opportunity to test it in battlegrounds quite a bit.
I have only 150 SP, but this weapon scaling at 100% on your SP, and it procs often enough for me to consider it way more consistent than edward the odd against rogues.
It's stupidly strong in scenarios where two rogues are giving you free reckoning stack to slaugther one of the two, and still being healthy with the healing coming from the lifesteal proc and lifesteal enchant.
IDK if you have the opportunity to test, but i think this weapon should be on the list of weapon you should carry around for PvP
I have it too and I love it. I have around 250 SP so I get 300 drain life
Yeah I tested it, its the best all round 1 hander but if you want pure healing Edward beats it out and if you want pure DPS Flurry Axe is better. I blather on about the stats in one of my videos.
The biggest kicker for me is parry haste or reckoning charges. The weapon is often superior to flurry axe or edward say vs 2 hander warriors or paladins because it gives less parry haste to opponent and you get more out of reck charges vs a rogue. The life stealing also ignores Mortal Strike debuff making it objectively better then edward the odd vs MS warriors.
I would still take a flurry axe or Edward the Odd vs casters though on account that I want to work that SoR x2 pushback.
thank you so much, just an idea but i was wondering if youve tested taking some points in benediction instead of lasting judgement. may be pointless but anyways ty for the great vid
Benediction isn't bad but sense I am using R3 SoR most the time its not that impressive... further more if you calculate the gain from just 1 JoW pro you got because of lasting judgement that you wouldn't have without it... a couple points in benediction looks like crap even without R3 SoR
Pallytime215 really appreciate it thank you man
i can't for the life of me get reckoning to proc ... is there some trick to it?
What do you mean?
You are not getting stacks, or losing them?
Yeah that sounds bad. Just in case will explain the reckoning mechanic. So when you are crit you gain charges up to 4. When you tell the game to auto attack something those charges become invisibly applied to that target and go off when you next auto attack the target. If you were to select a new target without have expended the charges then you lose all those charges even if you come back to it later.
Conclusion: do not select auto attack a target unless you are fractions of a second away from swinging on them.
To charge a reck bomb out in the world do the stand/crit thing but be damn sure you don't select auto attack on anything until you are ready to swing.
That's about it.
What build would you suggest when you are fresh 60 without much spell power at such?>
Two options, first is to pick up whatever SP gear you can find from dungeons, focusing on mail or plate. I still have 3 peices of SP gear from BRD and Strath UD. The other options it just to get Full T1... as T1 is no joke from a defensive perspective. Drakova just whooped my SP paladins ass in T1 with flat proc items like Malestorm trinket and the like. Was kind of gross.
In T1 you can learn all the right moves defensively and will only fail when you find yourself thinking "man if only I had some more dps". Then you get T2, the problem self solves itself and the next thing you know you are a monster.
Personally I would go Full T1 + SP ZG trinket... play deffensively and when go for the kill pop trinket with a flurry axe, go to town, when trinket is warring off swap to MugOhurt and play the proc game.
@@pallytime2156 thank you very much for the detailed answer! So, this spec works from the start. One last question. What do you think about a 31/x/11+x spec to get SoCom to have an option for 2h against casters?
@@Kikeron There are a number of things wring with the spec that are hard to explain, simply put the loss of precision, readout, and improved freedom / BoP alone are far more detrimental to what you gain form 11 points in Ret.
31/9/11 and u only miss 1 point in guardians favor
Sacrificing 10% increased SoR and white hit damage (1h spec) for lasting judgement and some armor ?
Yeah man. I never tested it but Drakova told me that increased SoR damage only effects the base SoR damage amount not the extra damage you get from spell power. Since SoR rank 3 has 20% spell power ratio with a 1 handed while all the other ranks have 15%... it begins to out scale all the other SoR ranks past 200 spell power.
As for going for improved 1 hand damage I hear that the improved 1 hand damage effects but both the white and the SoR, but I could be wrong. All that said, Lasting judgement is still better. More sustain = more dps in the vast majority of cases.
That was confirmed. And rank 3 only outperforms rank 8 when you hit 410 sp due to judgements with 1h rank 3 only getting 18% coefficients while 2h getting 20%. I think they found that if you are before 410 sp, rank 3 missing out on the judgements, which could use imp SoR to seal the gap since it increases your judgement of rank 3 by 1.15 turning a 58 tooltip into a 66 and then use 1h specialization to add extra seal dmg based on 10s duration. But i havent simmed the math. Here is the graph found on the paladin discord:
www.desmos.com/calculator/pqhvq40fzc
@@stevenpitera8978 That's PvE stuff honestly, the increase in mana efficiency alone opens up others options such as DPS from consecration. There are also other considerations. RNG on taking return fire is a factor and some times you find yourself suddenly taking more damage then you thought or failing to resist a CC. Point being that you find yourself in a position where you are forced to stop whatever you were doing or even planned to do and just heal. Heal while taking yet more damage and so having to heal yet more. In these cases you are often thankful for having more mana then you would otherwise.
The shear cheapness of R3 allows seal twisting tactics such as Seal of Justice who's stun does not share a Diminishing Return with any other stun. The DPS and tactical gain alone from a 2s stun, especially on a caster casting a spell after having suffered pushback more then out ways what DPS loss you otherwise would have suffered.
Worse case, you can seal twist R8 SoR right before a judgement, judge that, then got back to R3, Gaining maximum dps potential at the cost of and additional 60mana every 10s if you feel the need to really push your dps within a given window.
The biggest nock by far against improved SoR and 1 handed damage is the talent point cost. There are just better bangs for your buck elsewhere.
My thoughts anyways. Keep up the siming
@@pallytime2156 when you have less than 200sp, you use max rank of SoR?
@@Kikeron Depends on how mana efficient I am looking to be but generally yes. Also depends on speed of wep.
How good is holy reckoning over all for solo world pvp in vanilla wow ?
Its chad to say the least. All the paladin specs are technically VERY good in solo world pvp, they just all have different play styles, str and weaknesses.
The two Reckoning Paladins can pre-charge in open world pvp making them VERY strong in 2 out of 3 of the world pvp scenarios... those being Jumping, Getting Jumped, and even fight.
Say you get jumped and die or jump them and they die. When they come back no one is jumping the other anymore and the fight is more like a duel.
The only paladin that is not good on the jump is Holy, Ret Reck is #1, Holy Reck #2, and Ret is about = to Holy Reck.
Ret Reck HATES getting jumped and is "ok" in even fights. Deep Ret is solid all round depending if you are the physical, magic, or mixed version (T2.5 = mixed for deep ret).
Holy and Holy Reck are solid AF when getting jumped. Very good in even fights. With one sucking jumping people and the other being very good at it.
Holy Recks BIGGGG advantage over the other paladin specs in open world pvp is that you can farm mobs and still be good for pvp is jumped, on top of the fact that you have ALL the farming goodies such as Consecration and Blessing of Sanc.
In truth, pick the flavor of paladin you want to play and just roll with it. They are all solidly well rounded if you geared correctly, with the only odd boy out being Ret Reckoning as that paladin is the glass cannon of the bunch. Physical Ret is also a bit of a glass cannon, but if you build them differently... with a mix of mana, spell power, physical (so T2 or T2.5 or Rank gear) they become VERY well rounded offensively and defensively which is also what a Holy Reck Paladin is.
@@pallytime2156 i see yes. Thanks a mil for explaining in such a way. Can you link the holy/reck spec that would over all best for solo world pvp. And in general you wanna use 1h/shield or 2h as it ? Atm we are only at early stage on our server so mc/onyx and soon bwl, so no t2.5 or naxx gear atm. Are there any special classes / specs where holy shock having a hard time to win 1vs1 open world ? Like a super counter to them.
@@jarlfisk I have a lot of videos, probably my best videos to watch are 1. "An Ocean of "good enough" and 2. "Real Numbers behind Holy Reckoning".
TLDR = Best gear in game for Holy Reck = Rank 12 + Change (you can rank 13 gear but the difference is +1% crit). If not that its T2 or T2.5 but Rank 12 still better.
Edward to Odd, which you can buy phase 1 AH = Best 1 handed paladin weapon in the entire game. Have a whole video on it. Its the best weapon both offensively and defensively.
Hand of Rag = Best 2 hander in entire game. If not that other options are few and far between. I explore in detail these two weapons combat ability in gear detail in the video's I suggested.
The short version is that the Fire Resist from HoR makes it giga chad when pared with 20FR enchants to head and chest (in lew of +100hpx2) That plus other gear and aura gets you to 180FR very quickly. I could give you an exact number for how effective that 160 based on other TBC video's I did but its close to 33-40% damage reduction.
He's the trick with it though. Every pvp uses grenades. Those grenades do 500 damage, are used to stop our healing, and get distance on us. But the nades have 2 fire resist checks, 1 for the damage and 1 for the stun effect. So if you full resist the damage = full resist the stun. If you take damage there is still another resist check to resist the stun. Blah blah blah... expect to not get stunned 40% of the time when hit by a nade.
But what does that mean in pvp?
It means you have repent basically.
I throw a nade, stun target, run up to melee with them, then nade me and it FAILS... well...
Thats no different then if it stunned me... they ran away and I repented them to reclose the distance. TLDR is that if you resist nades as Holy Reckoning = people start dying very quickly.
@@jarlfisk As for phase 1 gear... Dragons Blood Cape and Hand of Rag of Rag... Edward the odd... malistars defender (the MP5 shield off rag) are all good to get. Skelly summon book of ony is good. There is a ring with all resists and another with ARMOR in MC that are good. But really until phase 3 you are kind of just rocking whatever has spell power.
Rank 10 gear is SUPPPPPPPERRRRRRRR GOOOOOOOODDDDDDD!!!! Only thing better is Rank 12/13 gear until T2. But then Rank 12 > T2 and T2.5 so.... yeah...
Get on a gear planner and pop on Rank 10 gear and you see what I mean.
@@pallytime2156 okay cool 😎 thanks s million! And while leveling 1-60! What spec would you recommend if you also wanna focus on world pvp while leveling ? And i guess Engi and bs for fear trinket is bis professions ? And to make gold at 60 we farm flowers in dm e if we have herb or do dm mining runs it mining or just farm open world for elements and stuff ?