Blahahaa! Thx a bunch to Hammer and Bravo and all the rest on Pally discord for the audio help. Can't do much about the mono-ton voice though. Such is the life of us nerds.
Thank you so much for your guide! Even though I wanted to play paladin, I thought he was boring as hell when I created him. Like 2 general builds were holy 1 skill spam heal and retri proc fisher. Both sound cheesy and boring. But you opened my eyes.
This is a great series! I used to troll solo PvP in Daoc with my Tri spec healer if I wasn't grouping. The Holy/Prot build gives a nice utility of solo and group viability for PvP/PVE.
Yes and no. The pros and cons to gearing out a Holy Reckoning Pally are as fallows: 1. You are really only after T2 and maybe a couple of pieces from Onyixia. T2 = your Bis pretty much period. The con to this is that yes you have to raid... the pro to this is that you don't have to raid super serious, as you could just feed gold and mats to your guild, super chill like, and once they have BWL on farm you can just hit them up for T2 and they will JUMP at the opportunity to bring you in and get you geared out for all your services. 2. Your Preraid healing BiS IS your BIS healing gear tell Nax. It's kind of gross and is a huge pro for pally healing in raids. My plans are to go big on the gold farming and light on the raiding until BWL... mostly feeding gold to my guild as there isn't much in Molten core I am really after. Then move in on my T2 later.
@@pallytime2156 Ok so Raiding is a big maybe. Thinking Lightforge Phase one and grind the PvP set phase 2-3. Maybe will be oportunities for raiding, but nothing I will activly search for. I do love me my dungeons thou. Love the druid Hybrid spec. Will I be able to tank dungeons with holy/reck? Looking at talents I should be able to Heal, Tank and do well in pvp all in one spec, just like the druids. Never played pally in vanilla tough so figured I ask atleast =P Nice vids, enjoyed em all so far :)
Holy Reck is VERY powerful in T0 and can even perform well with a mix of T0.5 and PvP gear... Yes you can tank very easily... just remember to Mark, use Seal of Wis but don't judge it (the mana pull back lets you go 3-4 pulls before you need to drink otherwise its 1-2 pulls at best). Healing yourself in combat while tanking is also pretty sexy... heals generate 50% AoE threat of the amount healed. No idea if Righteous Furry effects it. IF YOU CANNOT RAID AND YOU WANT YOUR T2... find a guild that you can trust and given them Gold and a 3 months after BWL comes out when you have the time they will take you with them in a raid and SHOWER you with gear. No Joke... just ask around. Gold = Time so if you can give them time they will give you gear. Oh and if you are going to go T0... go Burst Holy Reck... so 2 hander, deathray, pvp trinket... shits broken.
If you are in BG's you are healing with a two hander so that you can exploadify any rogues that DARE to try to interrupt your healing... if in the open world you engage with a two hander and then after the initial bomb move into a more 1 hander Time on Target... SUPER powerful... If dueling Time on Target is the way to go... resists, armor, healing. Most of my guides ignore having a precharge reck bomb on a two hander and so what that means is that you can jump 2 people, explode the easier to kill target out of existence... then follow the guide from their. So when I say "two handed" I mean have a two hander as your opener and you can swap to edward the odd or the like from their. Its nice to open with a 4K damage pimp hand off the back of Speed Boots, Gnomish Net and all the rest... So yeah... you can go Net over Ray BUT all Reckoning paladins run around with a two hander to start because precharge is just WAY to good. There are some arguments for using Ebon Hand precharged... mostly on account that you can have an off hand ready to go or a shield if there is a rogue around... but Trink + Two Hand hard to beat. But season to taste... Holy Reck is a BLAST.
Two questions: 1. With the time-on-target style, you have a plethora of trinkets and gear to be used. How do you make it work being unable to equip new trinkets/boots in combat as well as the 30 second internal cooldown of using a freshly equip off-hand? 2. Simply - is reckoning that great? I have not spec'd into it as of yet, so it is an honest question? Do you really get crit so often to gain a lot of procs off it? Do spell crits proc it? Also, do you save until 4 procs of it or just swing them as you get them? Guess it turned out to be more than two :) but feedback would be much appreciated!
Pallytime215 I'm getting around to leveling my paladin, which I intended to take Holy/Reckoning. I'm now being led to believe that the Reck-bomb no longer exists? Are you able to confirm/deny and if so.. What can I do without it? The way you portray Holy/Reckoning with the burst setup is the reason I even attempted to make a paladin. Feeling a bit lost at the moment, so I'll wait for a reply. Thanks in advance for any guidance/answers you can provide for a would-be paladin.
You mean the Deep Holy with Command build? Me and Drakova did a pallycast on it I think. Its the spec that barely isn't a spec honestly. Like its RIGHT THERE on the edge of being something but then is kinda just not as good. A prime example would be comparing Shock Command with Spell Power Ret to it (which just uses mixed gear that favors SP, Mana, and mixed stats in general) As repent is just annoyingly better in pvp than Holy Shock with the sol exception that HS can keep targets in combat better. But honestly most paladin specs waring proper gear are a bit of a train of destruction once you get the Time on Target and unkillable boxes checked. Can't get me off you. I do 300dps 1 handed. Can't kill me. It all = GG.
Since classic has been out for a while now, whats your opinion with regards to reckoning? Seems like its not as consistent to get charges as it once was, even with using the techniques found by Rextroy. Do you think it's now better to just go deep holy or ret?
There's a trick with the /sit macro and that still works in PvP. Problem is you need to practice hitting the small window of time you have and each melee class is different. I was able to quickly hit /sit button around the halfway-3/4 of the targets weapon swing, then stand quickly, judge rightesoousness or seal of command, which starts your auto attack sequence. Animation wise, if you time it right it looks kinda like a boxer picking up their hands for a block and then into into an uppercut lol.
Great video, I would have liked to see you include 2h holy shock ret, (seal of command) and you're sleeping on the skill mastery of deep ret, but overall greatwork.
I intentionally left info on Ret and all Ret Variants for two reasons... 1. So Drakova when he finally gets off his ass with his new born and watchs my videos he will have plenty to "correct" me on and thus talk about and 2. I have SUPER limited experience on Ret and really have to run most of my stuff past Drakova who as mentioned... is a little busy. But yeah... Deep Holy Ret... for some-reason I like it and don't like it off the top of my head... oh... right... HS is 20s CD... God hate that. Can't you heal as much if not more with repent? Still some tactical usage for HS and extra burst... its probably not half bad. Lol... see that's the problem with Paladin PvP guides... there are like 6 viable and effective builds if not more each with significantly different play styles... can't know um all. "well actually Pallytime you missed X build here and Y item there" "Yeah I know.. gahhd" (Napoleon Dynamite reference) I am waiting for someone to tell me Deep Prot is actually super good... its gunna happen...
@@pallytime2156 He had a baby? Nice, I think the problem with prot is everyone kinda knows roughly how good it'd be, better vs. melee but way worse vs. casters. But, deep ret has a lot of skill mastery in it, it also involves repentance, which might seem like an easy win skill once you have the basics of it but applied at a higher level there's quite a bit of skill in it, e.g. involving vanish vs. repentance 2h holy shock has some durability problems but the on-demand burst from the holy shock is great, the 2h holy shock ret and deep ret, (running down ret but picking up some prot/holy talents for utility and damage like consecrate) are very underrated since most people love the reckoning specs, the ret specs, (2h holy shock ret included) provide tons of utility to bgs that isn't dependent on hoping your opponents don't wise up to your reckoning shenanigans, while also not being as bad vs. healers since a healer or, as you mention, reckoning paladin may simply not want to attack you. They have a lot of use but being a top tier duelist spec vs. melee is not one of them and people love the idea of winning vs. others without much skill a little too much.
I will make a video next few days on this subject but the answer is that all knows specs are still fine. Ret Reck is running around with 5800hp and 5200 mana for example. My Holy reck is 5200hp with 190 Fire Resist, Thick obsidian, and a bomb that has 50% chance to delete a mage. Deep Control Ret is also fighteningly good.
What is your opinion for dwarf vs human in pvp? Really torn on which on which to choose because I really like the pve benefits of human when it comes to prot/ret, but don't want to lose out too much by not having stone form.
There is a great video on youtube called Melee mechanics and it basically shows that according to the beta the +5 weapon skill from the racial is beyond important in pve. As for pvp where that maters less... Paladin vs Rogue is by far one of our easiest match ups so the idea of needing the ability to shrug off a blind seems to me to be just a "win more" issue. Human on the other hand has +5% Spirit which is actually a thing way more often then most paladins will admit. If you just think about all the time you will be spending CC'ed, blinded, feared, sheeped, cubed, kited... all those spirit ticks tend to add up. If rogue is really bothering you for some unknown reason... I made a comment on one of my videos (like responding to a guy in the comments) about how Overpowered Scrolls of Blinding Light might be vs rogue, shaman, and a couple other classes. It makes your Flash of Light ~1s cast time and your Holy Lights 1.88 cast time. Now the HL cast time isn't very important but those 1s FL's can be woven into your play inside of things like Rogue energy ticks or Chain lightning casts, so during a vs rogue evasion fight if the rogue empties their energy bar you can get off a flash of light even before they can get the energy to kick you. No idea if it will work that well in classic but its something I got my eye on in general. I personally have played many 1v1's against perplexity as a human paladin and never had many issues... I think I did 13 fights in a row one time and lost 2... and in both cases my either all my stuns got resisted for free (Orc) or my weapon just refused to proc heal me. Perp was non to amused with my skull-forged reaver BS. This was before I figured out edward the odd is broken. So honestly... when I hear Esfand or Drakova say rogues can be hard... they are talking about Ret Reckoning or Deep Ret having issues, especially Ret Reckoning. Most ret reckoning builds skip 3 points in Improved Con and so truly have the anti kick healing option removed... which I would be VERY scared to fight a Perp without that combat trick available... As for why Deep Ret would struggle, I honestly have no idea... you have repent, just go shield ASAP, and be defensive with your time stuns and heals. I think once I pointed out that kick trick to Drakova he started saying Ret good vs rogues even without dwarf racial. I guess that extra bit of "healing" was enough to make the difference. So for reals... screw dwarves. They are technically better in pvp but it is HILARIOUSLY minor and not needed. Now if you are dead set on going Ret Reckoning... then 100% go dwarf or good rogues will be hard (so like 10% of the rogue player base lol).
@@pallytime2156 hmm seems like going dwarves is really good for ret reckoning. Not sure which pvp spec I'll go, but planing on just healing for raids and prot tanking 5/10mans. I do like how human paladins looks aesthetically... Sigh looks like I'm still stuck on which one to play lol. Which spec do you think does the best against rouges in 1v1s?
In order of hard to for rogues to win = Deep Holy, Holy Reckoning / Deep Ret, Ret Reckoning. In order of if you want dead rogues = Holy Reckoning, Ret Reckoning, Deep Ret, Deep Holy. Holy shock makes beating a paladin for a rogue damn near impossible. Repent makes things super difficult for them as well but Deep Ret does really bring the pain quite at well as the reckoning paladins. The truth of reality is you really need to split up "rogues" into three kinds... average rogues, above average rogues, scary rogues. 80% of rogues even on private servers where they are in theory smarter... simply die to a reckoning paladin trinketing their stun, spamming hammer of Justice, and going for the bomb to the rear the kills them 1 shot style. 15% of the remaining 20% can actually FIND their living action potion / free action potion for such a fight but they rarely ever seem to do the evasion fights really needed to win so RNG has to crap on you pretty hard for you to lose those matchups... Its the 5% of rouges that are the only real issue of any of the paladin specs, and most of that comes down to the fact that many paladin players don't know how to play inside the evasion fights. Holy Reckoning is the well rounded monster of the paladin specs... and is a good mix of super hard to kill for a rogue, as well as can kill a rogue, and heal in raids. It also has better match ups against many of the casters... but has a weaker match up vs mages in particular the Deep Ret or Ret Reckoning. Summary from my experience = If you are worried about rogues as a paladin of any race or spec... don't be. You are their nightmare not the other way around. I regularly go 1v2 vs rogues and win... Reckoning is odd that way... it scales hard when you are outnumbered making it SUPER dangerous for multiple gankers... Getting ganked by 5 people, dying but killing two of them is very common with reckoning just because of the nature of it. Something reckoning has over Deep Holy and Deep Ret. Its also SUPER easy to gear. Full T2 and your in your BiS all game. Its kind of gross.
no infact it sucks now that video is quit old, you can also just buy the gnomish stuff off the AH and use it goblin no problem. Goblin is better in general because you can reload your goblin mortar
@@pallytime2156 wow that's fantastic. Really enjoying your content. I have been playing each bracket as I level. I have just geared up for 49 with + sp gear, hoping to make use of holy shock to assist my team on kills when healing. Thanks for taking the time to reply!
Improved SoR only increases the base damage and not the spell damage component or Judgement of Crusader increase. This results in only about a 25 point damage increase to JoR and a 6-12 point damage increase on SoR. Spiritual Focus can be just so much more useful in difficult situations. 10% strength is good, but generally, Paladins need mana and 10% int will result in about 500 more mana, depending on gear.
Base sor is 18.675 DMG. To calculate your DMG with sor you use this equation: (18.675 * 0.85 * weapon speed) * 1.15 + (spell power * 0.10) * 1h specialization. For two hander it's the same equation except 1.12 instead of 0.85 to calculate the base DMG. Reason imp sor is garbage, is that: 1) DMG isn't paladin's forte. It's being a tanky sexy son of a bitch lol 2) with a 2.7 speed 1h, base sor is 44.44 DMG. 15% of that is 6 DMG making it 51 DMG which is actually 13% increase due to how diminishing returns works (7/51 = 0.13). 1h specialisation with higher SP is better DMG boost. 44.44 + (300 * 0.10) = 74.44. then 15% for 1h = 85. Granted you can add spell power to the sor example, but you can go more SP DMG on gear not taking imp sor since you can take fear resist+interrupt push back immunity talents giving you more survivability. And also, imp sor is multiplied before the sp making it trying to calculate a percentage on a smaller number which is a bad use of percentages. Hope this makes sense!
I don't think so, but if it was it would be in one of three places. 1. Guarding a Flag in AB 2. Flag Holding in WSG 3. (and this is the best by far) camping enemy GY, consecrating and not letting horde mount when they re spawn until you are dead. Which with a smart team can take forever... For example... your teamates could NOT kill casters and just let them OOM but no drink. But they kill rogues, hunters, melee... You at the GY are waiting for melee in your prot paladin... who will have the time of their life trying to kill you with no caster support.
@@pallytime2156 If you have a top tier weapon and some gear, you can run around in a premade with reckoning spe'c and do some damage with a healer healing you. But it all depends
I think we got some stat priority chats in the Pally casts, but honestly Stat Prio has a bit of flow to it in pvp based on your spec and what phase it is to say nothing about gearing for a specific matchup. Short and skinny would be: 1. Are you alive and not dead? 2. Can you catch it? 3. Can you kill it? If you stop and think about it for a while you will come to the conclusion that these three things are all that really matter in pvp. In pvp you arn't hitting a glorified target dummy so your priority is more dynamic then stat wieghts and what nots. Watch any top tier paladin video, hit up any pvp guide, watch any top end paladin dueling, and we generally agree that 4700+, 5000+, 5300+ are all HP break points and are your #1 priority. HP is king for all paladin specs. After that the priority becomes can you "Can you Catch it? Can you Kill it?" which is where your remaining gearing focus will go into. Some specs only need to catch the target for a couple seconds, some of them longer, 20-30seconds. Which ever route your paladin spec is taking make sure your dps is sufficient to KILL in the window of time you are trying to kill.
Look up "Drakova vs Cocky Shamans" You can also see me talking about it for like an hour in "What proper era paladin play looks like" The TLDR is that is that when you hit certain raw durability levels as a paladin E-shams just die. They can't kill you... they oom... they die or just get bombed out of existence. My x2 fav class is E-Shaman and even I don't know how to kill a properly geared and played paladin with it :(
This is like enjoying a lecture at the University of Holy Light. Really detailed and filled with useful information. Good job!
Blahahaa! Thx a bunch to Hammer and Bravo and all the rest on Pally discord for the audio help. Can't do much about the mono-ton voice though. Such is the life of us nerds.
I didn't expect this level of detail. Great video
This reminds me of all those college classes where the topic is very interesting, but the lecturer puts you to sleep.
I like that there is a guide about runnung away and healing yourself :D
Thusad So a hunter plus Jesus. 😎
THIS is what all paladins should watch if they are intrested in pvp! great videom pallytime215
As a new player on classic it really helps me. Subbed
Amazing video, great information delivered concisely to those interested. Instant sub.
How would you rate Holy/Reckoning for pre-made BGs?
This is my favourite video of all time, please more 1v1 guides
Even after years. Paladin mains gather in the comment section to breefly thank you.
Thank you so much for your guide! Even though I wanted to play paladin, I thought he was boring as hell when I created him. Like 2 general builds were holy 1 skill spam heal and retri proc fisher. Both sound cheesy and boring. But you opened my eyes.
Good, now go show people they are playing the wrong class.
This is a great series! I used to troll solo PvP in Daoc with my Tri spec healer if I wasn't grouping. The Holy/Prot build gives a nice utility of solo and group viability for PvP/PVE.
Made me go pally. Had planed HW/NS druid.
This made me rethink. Reck/holy here we go.
Seems harder to gear without raiding thou.
Yes and no. The pros and cons to gearing out a Holy Reckoning Pally are as fallows:
1. You are really only after T2 and maybe a couple of pieces from Onyixia. T2 = your Bis pretty much period. The con to this is that yes you have to raid... the pro to this is that you don't have to raid super serious, as you could just feed gold and mats to your guild, super chill like, and once they have BWL on farm you can just hit them up for T2 and they will JUMP at the opportunity to bring you in and get you geared out for all your services.
2. Your Preraid healing BiS IS your BIS healing gear tell Nax. It's kind of gross and is a huge pro for pally healing in raids.
My plans are to go big on the gold farming and light on the raiding until BWL... mostly feeding gold to my guild as there isn't much in Molten core I am really after. Then move in on my T2 later.
@@pallytime2156 Ok so Raiding is a big maybe. Thinking Lightforge Phase one and grind the PvP set phase 2-3.
Maybe will be oportunities for raiding, but nothing I will activly search for.
I do love me my dungeons thou. Love the druid Hybrid spec. Will I be able to tank dungeons with holy/reck?
Looking at talents I should be able to Heal, Tank and do well in pvp all in one spec, just like the druids. Never played pally in vanilla tough so figured I ask atleast =P
Nice vids, enjoyed em all so far :)
Holy Reck is VERY powerful in T0 and can even perform well with a mix of T0.5 and PvP gear...
Yes you can tank very easily... just remember to Mark, use Seal of Wis but don't judge it (the mana pull back lets you go 3-4 pulls before you need to drink otherwise its 1-2 pulls at best). Healing yourself in combat while tanking is also pretty sexy... heals generate 50% AoE threat of the amount healed. No idea if Righteous Furry effects it.
IF YOU CANNOT RAID AND YOU WANT YOUR T2... find a guild that you can trust and given them Gold and a 3 months after BWL comes out when you have the time they will take you with them in a raid and SHOWER you with gear. No Joke... just ask around. Gold = Time so if you can give them time they will give you gear.
Oh and if you are going to go T0... go Burst Holy Reck... so 2 hander, deathray, pvp trinket... shits broken.
@@pallytime2156 Was your Stay on target style that hooked me. But I'll try stuff out :)
If you are in BG's you are healing with a two hander so that you can exploadify any rogues that DARE to try to interrupt your healing... if in the open world you engage with a two hander and then after the initial bomb move into a more 1 hander Time on Target... SUPER powerful...
If dueling Time on Target is the way to go... resists, armor, healing.
Most of my guides ignore having a precharge reck bomb on a two hander and so what that means is that you can jump 2 people, explode the easier to kill target out of existence... then follow the guide from their.
So when I say "two handed" I mean have a two hander as your opener and you can swap to edward the odd or the like from their. Its nice to open with a 4K damage pimp hand off the back of Speed Boots, Gnomish Net and all the rest...
So yeah... you can go Net over Ray BUT all Reckoning paladins run around with a two hander to start because precharge is just WAY to good. There are some arguments for using Ebon Hand precharged... mostly on account that you can have an off hand ready to go or a shield if there is a rogue around... but Trink + Two Hand hard to beat.
But season to taste... Holy Reck is a BLAST.
Two questions:
1. With the time-on-target style, you have a plethora of trinkets and gear to be used. How do you make it work being unable to equip new trinkets/boots in combat as well as the 30 second internal cooldown of using a freshly equip off-hand?
2. Simply - is reckoning that great? I have not spec'd into it as of yet, so it is an honest question? Do you really get crit so often to gain a lot of procs off it? Do spell crits proc it? Also, do you save until 4 procs of it or just swing them as you get them?
Guess it turned out to be more than two :) but feedback would be much appreciated!
Pallytime215 I'm getting around to leveling my paladin, which I intended to take Holy/Reckoning. I'm now being led to believe that the Reck-bomb no longer exists? Are you able to confirm/deny and if so.. What can I do without it? The way you portray Holy/Reckoning with the burst setup is the reason I even attempted to make a paladin. Feeling a bit lost at the moment, so I'll wait for a reply. Thanks in advance for any guidance/answers you can provide for a would-be paladin.
Try this ruclips.net/video/c_MHIkMhSfc/видео.html
Love your vids
"Holy" crap this is awesome!
The light returns for Seasons of mastery
On that deep holy I’d take improved lay on hands, only comes up every 40mins but it’s an instant win and can swing 2v1s
HolyRet is my fav playstyle! This was after i tried all these styles thou. Tbh idk how people like prot spec. But i usually heal anyways
You mean the Deep Holy with Command build? Me and Drakova did a pallycast on it I think. Its the spec that barely isn't a spec honestly. Like its RIGHT THERE on the edge of being something but then is kinda just not as good.
A prime example would be comparing Shock Command with Spell Power Ret to it (which just uses mixed gear that favors SP, Mana, and mixed stats in general) As repent is just annoyingly better in pvp than Holy Shock with the sol exception that HS can keep targets in combat better. But honestly most paladin specs waring proper gear are a bit of a train of destruction once you get the Time on Target and unkillable boxes checked. Can't get me off you. I do 300dps 1 handed. Can't kill me. It all = GG.
gAAAAH i need this lecture to stop being queued
great video!
Can “Time on Target” stick to Druid efc though?
Since classic has been out for a while now, whats your opinion with regards to reckoning? Seems like its not as consistent to get charges as it once was, even with using the techniques found by Rextroy. Do you think it's now better to just go deep holy or ret?
There's a trick with the /sit macro and that still works in PvP. Problem is you need to practice hitting the small window of time you have and each melee class is different. I was able to quickly hit /sit button around the halfway-3/4 of the targets weapon swing, then stand quickly, judge rightesoousness or seal of command, which starts your auto attack sequence. Animation wise, if you time it right it looks kinda like a boxer picking up their hands for a block and then into into an uppercut lol.
Wow, lots of details
Great video, I would have liked to see you include 2h holy shock ret, (seal of command) and you're sleeping on the skill mastery of deep ret, but overall greatwork.
I intentionally left info on Ret and all Ret Variants for two reasons... 1. So Drakova when he finally gets off his ass with his new born and watchs my videos he will have plenty to "correct" me on and thus talk about and 2. I have SUPER limited experience on Ret and really have to run most of my stuff past Drakova who as mentioned... is a little busy.
But yeah... Deep Holy Ret... for some-reason I like it and don't like it off the top of my head... oh... right... HS is 20s CD... God hate that. Can't you heal as much if not more with repent? Still some tactical usage for HS and extra burst... its probably not half bad.
Lol... see that's the problem with Paladin PvP guides... there are like 6 viable and effective builds if not more each with significantly different play styles... can't know um all.
"well actually Pallytime you missed X build here and Y item there" "Yeah I know.. gahhd" (Napoleon Dynamite reference)
I am waiting for someone to tell me Deep Prot is actually super good... its gunna happen...
@@pallytime2156 He had a baby? Nice, I think the problem with prot is everyone kinda knows roughly how good it'd be, better vs. melee but way worse vs. casters. But, deep ret has a lot of skill mastery in it, it also involves repentance, which might seem like an easy win skill once you have the basics of it but applied at a higher level there's quite a bit of skill in it, e.g. involving vanish vs. repentance
2h holy shock has some durability problems but the on-demand burst from the holy shock is great, the 2h holy shock ret and deep ret, (running down ret but picking up some prot/holy talents for utility and damage like consecrate) are very underrated since most people love the reckoning specs, the ret specs, (2h holy shock ret included) provide tons of utility to bgs that isn't dependent on hoping your opponents don't wise up to your reckoning shenanigans, while also not being as bad vs. healers since a healer or, as you mention, reckoning paladin may simply not want to attack you. They have a lot of use but being a top tier duelist spec vs. melee is not one of them and people love the idea of winning vs. others without much skill a little too much.
Great Job :-)
Do most of these specs except rek hold up in classic era now?
I will make a video next few days on this subject but the answer is that all knows specs are still fine. Ret Reck is running around with 5800hp and 5200 mana for example. My Holy reck is 5200hp with 190 Fire Resist, Thick obsidian, and a bomb that has 50% chance to delete a mage.
Deep Control Ret is also fighteningly good.
Please make more paladin guides
What is your opinion for dwarf vs human in pvp? Really torn on which on which to choose because I really like the pve benefits of human when it comes to prot/ret, but don't want to lose out too much by not having stone form.
There is a great video on youtube called Melee mechanics and it basically shows that according to the beta the +5 weapon skill from the racial is beyond important in pve. As for pvp where that maters less... Paladin vs Rogue is by far one of our easiest match ups so the idea of needing the ability to shrug off a blind seems to me to be just a "win more" issue.
Human on the other hand has +5% Spirit which is actually a thing way more often then most paladins will admit. If you just think about all the time you will be spending CC'ed, blinded, feared, sheeped, cubed, kited... all those spirit ticks tend to add up.
If rogue is really bothering you for some unknown reason... I made a comment on one of my videos (like responding to a guy in the comments) about how Overpowered Scrolls of Blinding Light might be vs rogue, shaman, and a couple other classes.
It makes your Flash of Light ~1s cast time and your Holy Lights 1.88 cast time. Now the HL cast time isn't very important but those 1s FL's can be woven into your play inside of things like Rogue energy ticks or Chain lightning casts, so during a vs rogue evasion fight if the rogue empties their energy bar you can get off a flash of light even before they can get the energy to kick you.
No idea if it will work that well in classic but its something I got my eye on in general.
I personally have played many 1v1's against perplexity as a human paladin and never had many issues... I think I did 13 fights in a row one time and lost 2... and in both cases my either all my stuns got resisted for free (Orc) or my weapon just refused to proc heal me. Perp was non to amused with my skull-forged reaver BS. This was before I figured out edward the odd is broken.
So honestly... when I hear Esfand or Drakova say rogues can be hard... they are talking about Ret Reckoning or Deep Ret having issues, especially Ret Reckoning. Most ret reckoning builds skip 3 points in Improved Con and so truly have the anti kick healing option removed... which I would be VERY scared to fight a Perp without that combat trick available...
As for why Deep Ret would struggle, I honestly have no idea... you have repent, just go shield ASAP, and be defensive with your time stuns and heals. I think once I pointed out that kick trick to Drakova he started saying Ret good vs rogues even without dwarf racial. I guess that extra bit of "healing" was enough to make the difference.
So for reals... screw dwarves. They are technically better in pvp but it is HILARIOUSLY minor and not needed.
Now if you are dead set on going Ret Reckoning... then 100% go dwarf or good rogues will be hard (so like 10% of the rogue player base lol).
@@pallytime2156 hmm seems like going dwarves is really good for ret reckoning. Not sure which pvp spec I'll go, but planing on just healing for raids and prot tanking 5/10mans. I do like how human paladins looks aesthetically... Sigh looks like I'm still stuck on which one to play lol. Which spec do you think does the best against rouges in 1v1s?
In order of hard to for rogues to win =
Deep Holy, Holy Reckoning / Deep Ret, Ret Reckoning.
In order of if you want dead rogues =
Holy Reckoning, Ret Reckoning, Deep Ret, Deep Holy.
Holy shock makes beating a paladin for a rogue damn near impossible. Repent makes things super difficult for them as well but Deep Ret does really bring the pain quite at well as the reckoning paladins.
The truth of reality is you really need to split up "rogues" into three kinds... average rogues, above average rogues, scary rogues.
80% of rogues even on private servers where they are in theory smarter... simply die to a reckoning paladin trinketing their stun, spamming hammer of Justice, and going for the bomb to the rear the kills them 1 shot style.
15% of the remaining 20% can actually FIND their living action potion / free action potion for such a fight but they rarely ever seem to do the evasion fights really needed to win so RNG has to crap on you pretty hard for you to lose those matchups...
Its the 5% of rouges that are the only real issue of any of the paladin specs, and most of that comes down to the fact that many paladin players don't know how to play inside the evasion fights.
Holy Reckoning is the well rounded monster of the paladin specs... and is a good mix of super hard to kill for a rogue, as well as can kill a rogue, and heal in raids. It also has better match ups against many of the casters... but has a weaker match up vs mages in particular the Deep Ret or Ret Reckoning.
Summary from my experience = If you are worried about rogues as a paladin of any race or spec... don't be. You are their nightmare not the other way around.
I regularly go 1v2 vs rogues and win...
Reckoning is odd that way... it scales hard when you are outnumbered making it SUPER dangerous for multiple gankers...
Getting ganked by 5 people, dying but killing two of them is very common with reckoning just because of the nature of it. Something reckoning has over Deep Holy and Deep Ret. Its also SUPER easy to gear. Full T2 and your in your BiS all game. Its kind of gross.
Hey would you say holy/rek is the best build out of the four for aoe farming? I want to be able to heal in raids and still be able to aoe farm
For sure, go look up on youtube Rextroy he is finding some insane stuff about reckoning that really makes Holy Reconing even better for aoe farming.
Are ret and holy reckoning specs nerfed in classic era?
made a video for you and others
Way to turn a fun game into a ...college lecture..
Is the gnomish death ray essential? I went goblin engineering :(
no infact it sucks now that video is quit old, you can also just buy the gnomish stuff off the AH and use it goblin no problem. Goblin is better in general because you can reload your goblin mortar
@@pallytime2156 wow that's fantastic. Really enjoying your content.
I have been playing each bracket as I level. I have just geared up for 49 with + sp gear, hoping to make use of holy shock to assist my team on kills when healing.
Thanks for taking the time to reply!
For Holy/Reckoning in PvP why not take +10% strength and improved SoR???
Improved SoR only increases the base damage and not the spell damage component or Judgement of Crusader increase. This results in only about a 25 point damage increase to JoR and a 6-12 point damage increase on SoR. Spiritual Focus can be just so much more useful in difficult situations. 10% strength is good, but generally, Paladins need mana and 10% int will result in about 500 more mana, depending on gear.
Base sor is 18.675 DMG. To calculate your DMG with sor you use this equation:
(18.675 * 0.85 * weapon speed) * 1.15 + (spell power * 0.10) * 1h specialization.
For two hander it's the same equation except 1.12 instead of 0.85 to calculate the base DMG.
Reason imp sor is garbage, is that:
1) DMG isn't paladin's forte. It's being a tanky sexy son of a bitch lol
2) with a 2.7 speed 1h, base sor is 44.44 DMG. 15% of that is 6 DMG making it 51 DMG which is actually 13% increase due to how diminishing returns works (7/51 = 0.13).
1h specialisation with higher SP is better DMG boost. 44.44 + (300 * 0.10) = 74.44. then 15% for 1h = 85. Granted you can add spell power to the sor example, but you can go more SP DMG on gear not taking imp sor since you can take fear resist+interrupt push back immunity talents giving you more survivability. And also, imp sor is multiplied before the sp making it trying to calculate a percentage on a smaller number which is a bad use of percentages.
Hope this makes sense!
Is viable a prot Pala on pre made bg?
I don't think so, but if it was it would be in one of three places.
1. Guarding a Flag in AB
2. Flag Holding in WSG
3. (and this is the best by far) camping enemy GY, consecrating and not letting horde mount when they re spawn until you are dead. Which with a smart team can take forever...
For example... your teamates could NOT kill casters and just let them OOM but no drink.
But they kill rogues, hunters, melee...
You at the GY are waiting for melee in your prot paladin... who will have the time of their life trying to kill you with no caster support.
@@pallytime2156 If you have a top tier weapon and some gear, you can run around in a premade with reckoning spe'c and do some damage with a healer healing you. But it all depends
STAT PRIORITY FOR ALL SPECS PLS AND WHY???? PLEASE FRIEND PLEASE
I think we got some stat priority chats in the Pally casts, but honestly Stat Prio has a bit of flow to it in pvp based on your spec and what phase it is to say nothing about gearing for a specific matchup.
Short and skinny would be:
1. Are you alive and not dead?
2. Can you catch it?
3. Can you kill it?
If you stop and think about it for a while you will come to the conclusion that these three things are all that really matter in pvp. In pvp you arn't hitting a glorified target dummy so your priority is more dynamic then stat wieghts and what nots.
Watch any top tier paladin video, hit up any pvp guide, watch any top end paladin dueling, and we generally agree that 4700+, 5000+, 5300+ are all HP break points and are your #1 priority. HP is king for all paladin specs.
After that the priority becomes can you "Can you Catch it? Can you Kill it?" which is where your remaining gearing focus will go into.
Some specs only need to catch the target for a couple seconds, some of them longer, 20-30seconds. Which ever route your paladin spec is taking make sure your dps is sufficient to KILL in the window of time you are trying to kill.
Check out my Paladin vs Druid, Warrior, Caster Suplemental... I cover it pretty good there I think.
Deep Ret - NEVER use Consecrate.
(Puts a talent point into Consecrate)
Con is always good for flushing rogues out even if you don't use it in your rotation.
Only god is classic is a mage. Get in line and know your role!
I was expecting much better audio quality than this, lol
That makes too of us. Its a work in progress :P
Why skullforge reaver? that is so garbage dps and only good against rogue IIIIIFFFF it procs.
You desirvr more follows :)
Shamans> everything in pvp chain lightning one shots
Look up "Drakova vs Cocky Shamans" You can also see me talking about it for like an hour in "What proper era paladin play looks like"
The TLDR is that is that when you hit certain raw durability levels as a paladin E-shams just die. They can't kill you... they oom... they die or just get bombed out of existence.
My x2 fav class is E-Shaman and even I don't know how to kill a properly geared and played paladin with it :(