I live in Manitoba, 62 yrs old and still love riding. My take on the industry is the only people who are out there are us grey hairs. Rarely see the younger riders out. To expensive, no interest, etc. so glad I grew up when I did.
Come do some mountain riding out in BC. 98% of the riders out here are under 40, lots of young bucks like myself are keeping the sport going. However, the manufacturers are due for a reality check. $30k for a sled is outrageous.
I’m a big fan of Arctic cat from MI and my heart really goes out to them. All of snowmobiling is hurting right now. Arctic cat needs a fresh start. Only make trail sleds, focus on building a cheaper more affordable sled and getting families back into riding again. They need to re-kindle the passion for snowmobiling again and the Arctic cat name that sparked such a huge cult following.
I think all the manufacturers are pricing people out of the sport. I mean every year they go up thousands. I don’t know how anyone can buy one every year
Couldn’t agree more it’s gotten out of hand! I have no idea how they can correct it but definitely keeping to overproduce and reck the re sale value is not helping any of us.
Retired out of the game now, but as a 45+ year veteran snowcat rider with deep experience from ditch banging, ice racing, mountain riding, trail rider, et al that last bought a Polaris Pro RMK 800HO around 2019, that sled was way more capable than I was and got me into places I shouldn't be at that stage in my life for under $11k OTD. Most amazing thing I'd ever ridden, all the years of dumping huge $$$$ into mod sleds, out the box it was the best you could ask for. What else could you really need than that? Had huge fun seasons on M7 Cats, Escape RMKs, Rev Summits, Mountain Max triples, but the lightness of the Pro chassis Polaris with a hot twin 800 or Summit Gen4, honestly what else does 85-90% of the market actually need? Economics of owning toys is gone and the lifeblood of the sport, working class men 18-40 is gone. No one can afford multiple toys at $15k-25k+ each, vehicle and trailer to pull them at $60K+, fuel at $5/gal to run them, consumable parts that don't last for $2k/season, etc etc etc. Sad but it'll all go away- all because of corporate greed via investor paybacks for the OEMs, ridiculous federal regulations, and ultimately lack of interest and feasibility of ownership by the next generations. The world can't finance it way to sustainability for everything.....
Oh yeah, and a thing called a changing climate. 72 year old trail rider here. I have a 2004 Firecat F7 EFI NightFire. Last time on the snow was back in 2008. Sitting in near climate control storage with 800 miles on the OD. It has become such an expensive destination sport, I just could not keep up after buying my first home.
totally agree skating and skiing is gone also! Use to love the pond hockey days and skiing at local hills! Its all gone dosent' even get cold enough to skate and the ski areas are all closed!!!!!!!
I’m 30. When I was a kid in Michigan, every kid my age had a carbed 440 or something that would ride around on. Now I don’t even know kids in my area that would have a sled, and the winters have been so inconsistent I don’t know where or when they would ride them. It’s terribly sad, the end of an era. Now everyone just rides side by sides.
Definitely crazy we have to find a way to keep the younger generations in the sport for sure! Having access to places to ride and affordable sleds to ride. Side by sides have definitely started to take over
It's not just snowmobiling and recreational... it's nearly every industry. Agriculture equipment is out of whack with poor prices and ungodly expensive equipment... which in turn affects the rest of the population, which comes full circle back to snowmobiles and recreational. When people's pocket books can't pencil out expenses, a lot of things take a back seat.
The other 50% that live in those areas they can ride 6 months a year can’t afford a 20k sled. I make 120k a year and still can’t find it in myself to buy a sled that costs that.
So don’t buy a 20k sled? You can buy a last years model 650 for 11-12k. 10 years ago the MSRP of a Rush 600 was 10k, which in inflation adjusted dollars is $14,500 in 2024. The Matryx is a WAY better sled too.
I remember riding way back in the late 80s and early 90s you could buy a belt for 30$ now the same belt is 150$ plus you could buy runners wear bars for 20$ oil was 1$ quart helmets good one 75$ jackets were like 75$ tops now same jacket is 500$ all day. The sport has killed itself in a way. I refuse to buy new all that efi garbage no way electronics an snow/moisture is not good later. Having all those sensors feeding off each other in stupid carbs work fine less crap to deal with later having to take a sled to a dealer for all work is dumb. 1 sensor goes bad way out in the North 40 you are done
Similar to our 4 yrs drought in MN 2020-today,lake levels down,access to lakes bit restricted,maybe 25% fewer boats in our 15,000 lakes, Mississippi was so shallow from MN to Louisiana,winter is at least a month shorter since just 1988
If you want to be a better channel, do more research before commenting. Washington, Oregon have been having some of the best early season conditions in years. I just rode two days ago in 3' of powder with another 2-3' base in the Sierras. You also mentioned Ski-doo and Polaris guages without realizing that Arctic Cat's G8 guage by Garmin is hands down, the nicest, most impressive guage out there, not even close.
Midwest is #1 for sales. No snow=no sales. Even our dmv in Minnesota is begging us to buy a trail sticker. Sno x is dead also. Dreg racing without a 4 stroke turbo is history. These manufacturers better move to another side of town.
Snowmobiling has definitely become a hobby for the higher income people. When I was a kid in the 80's everyone had a snowmobile, now there's hardly any kids with sleds. Low snow and high prices are the biggest cause of this. Another problem is people seem to think if they don't have the top of the line sled they aren't going to have any performance. The fact is a bottom level 600 still has tremendous performance vs just a few years ago. Not everyone can afford a bmw m5 just like not everyone is entitled to be able to afford a boost, 9r or doo 850 turbos.
Yep. I have 1 2008 and 3 2009 Ski-Doo Summits. All were bought used at different times with ~1500 miles on them. All had small repairs needed when I got them, but I'm still into them and a used 4-position trailer for less than $9K. Yes they need some work occasionally, but all snowmobiles do. My family enjoys them immensely. My boys will each get one of these when they move out of the house, and when the last one goes I'll buy a new one for myself.
Almost everyone had a snowmobile around here also. I live between the two Minnesota snowmobile producers and now a fraction have newer snowmobile models. The rest ride 20+ year old machines or don't ride anymore. The ridiculous prices of everything is killing the powersports market. I remember in the 1990s that the most popular models were in the 500 - 600 cc range. The top models weren't as popular.
@@jasons2054 Because everyone wasn't in a social media pissing match in the 1990s. If we're honest, most of us don't have the skill to put a top of the line machine to the test. Most putt around on the trail, and occasionally get off onto a meadow that is easy to see from the trail. I see it on every ride. I have gone with people that won't take their turbo 850 mountain sleds off trail, and are freaked out that I'm sidehilling on my 15 year old sleds.
The second year of a chassis isn’t necessarily a complete drop off because some wait a year to make sure all first year issues are taken care of. Year 3 is your dip year
I think the economy is pricing people out, everything is getting expensive. Its hard to justify dropping $ on a toy when snow has been spotty over last couple years when people are hurting. The base model 858 has an MSRP of just under 16k USD. By most reports even the base model shocks are pretty decent on the Cat. So you can still get a decent entry level sled that has all the other goodies of the flagship sled minus the G8 and higher end shocks for reasonable. I understand why they did the 600 last year but don’t get why its there for this year. By all accounts its not saving you weight and not saving that much $ over a base model 858. I have only played with my G8 gauge in the garage so far but I think its way ahead of the polaris. Havent messed with the doo gauge.
I think a lot of people like the feeling of a 600 they claim it revs faster and is easier to ride for some people. That is what a lot of people claim at least. I don't have one. I agree things are soooooo expensive!
They’re marketing teams are doing amazing work, guys buy into the hype. Im probably an outlier but I still have my G4, it owes me nothing. I wrench on it myself almost every week but im in the sport with a few hundred dollars a year. If you can’t afford a brandnew sled every year just maintain your current sled. Yea a turbo or a big bore would be nice but the chassis haven’t changed much for the last 4-5years. My 2 cent
I’m from Minnesota and now currently live in Wisconsin on the Minnesota border and I am one of those guys that would buy a no frills sled. I currently ride a Yamaha viper because I put a lot of trail miles on and it’s arguably the most reliable sled when the miles get up there. It’s also the only naturally aspirated 4 stroke sled on the market with good horsepower. I have nothing against turbos or two strokes, in fact I still ride a YZ 250 2 stroke dirtbike. For me a turbo just adds more complexity and failure points and the reality of a two-stroke is you’re looking at a very expensive rebuild right around that 7000 mile mark. before people get fired up I’m aware they can go longer, but if you’re into high mile riding like I am, rolling the dice when you’re 100 miles away from home is not something I’m into.
What current model snowmobile compares to the 90's snowmobiles like an XLT and then compare the costs. Its not as bad as you think, the problem is we all want the top of the line machines.
I live in south GA. I've never even seen a snow machine in person before. So I have no clue why I listened to this entire podcast. And was interested the whole time.. Hahaha. I did use to b a huge arctic cat at fan back in the day. They were on the cutting edge about 20 years ago. But the atv development just STOPPED about 2007..
Ski-doo makes a snowmobile for absolutely every niche of the market! And this makes it very difficult to for Arctic Cat and even Polaris to maintain a profitable market share. I bought an Expedition Extreme 850 a couple of years ago and when I crossed shopped other the other brands I was truly stunned about how much more selection Skidoo has in their line up.
I spoke with the Track 2 Trail dealership owner in Sioux Falls, SD and he claimed powersports in general have just been selling extremely poor. The only new items people can afford is the ones with little to no extra options. I blame the government for printing all that money and handing out to everyone during covid. Created all this big boom in the economy and now its all a thing of the past.
I bought my 22’ Hardcore for like 16k out the door in MN. Now the local dealer is selling brand new M8000s for 10k and they can’t get rid of them. Used sleds aren’t moving at giveaway prices either! I’m not buying new anymore. I’ll just buy a year old sled with 200 miles on it next year for 8k less from a private party and skip paying all the bullshit dealer fees and taxes.
Good plan, but ultimately if no one is buying new there won’t be any used. BTW new sleds in Japan are way more expensive than even the US. In the countryside where I live you can buy a decent house for less than a new Cat.
All 3 of these guys know exactly what’s going on. I cant see a good outcome if these prices don’t come down. We have to remember how many bailouts BRP skidoo have been gone through. I don’t even own a skidoo and I’m paying taxes because we got an idiot for a prime minister that gave the bailout.
Its not just snowmobiles, its literally everything that's become too expensive. Were living in times of big monopolies and that is the end of story. The thing we should be talking about is how to break them up.
Just bought a new Ski Doo 4 stroke and now have to sell one of my Arctic Cat's. The 2002 ZL550 has given 2 decades of repair free pleasure and it's warm to drive. The 2018 ZR8000 constantly got warranty recall issues ( is at the dealer now; two weeks) and it's cold to drive. Can't wait to get it home to sell it. Never another Cat. Most of my sleds have been Polaris but gave up in 2006 when they started using biodegradable pistons. So it's up to Ski Doo to keep me sledding.
I owned a 2002 ZL 550 and had a couple of Cougar 550 L/Cs before that. They were only 80 HP engines, but absolutely bulletproof simple piston port engines with dual VM38 carbs. They would run and run with little maintenance.
I think a big part of the problem is big names in the industry refer to everything as "the best" or "what is the best" rather then saying everything is good and it really comes down to rider talent. Because let's be honest. All 3 new platforms are amazing, and all 3 have things they shine in over the others, if you take all 3 new platforms in a NA trim, is one really the best? No, because we can do anything on one that we can on the other, so instead of referring to sleds as to what's better, the big names in the sport should be pushing RIDER SKILLS and the way each sled reacts to different riding styles.I feel like the whole "this sled is the best" attitude is what's killing the sport because as you know, majority of people are sheep and they can't think on their own, so they go fishing for info and all they hear is "this sled is the best". I personally still ride a 2018 mountain cat 153, I paid 15,600CAD for it brand new, and there are so many guys where I ride with brand new turbos they paid 30grand for because they are "the best" and aside from climbing straight up a hill, I go everywhere they go, not because my sled is the best, but because I can ride the thing!! Look at GGB mountain cans, anyone with any knowledge knows they are a garbage can, but they advertise great and got a bunch of embassidors to say they are the best and that spread like wild fire and now social media is full of people wondering why their sleds bog lol. Sorry for the rant... it's just my 2 cents. 90% of the people I see riding turbos have no buisness riding one, they only have one because it strokes their egos. It's like everyone is just looking for some sort of assurance or proof to back themselves up as to why their chosen brand is the best.
Imo the single biggest issue is used sled values or even the ability to sell them at all. They sold so many machines over covid so there's a glut of used stuff on the market that u can't give away. So you're losing like 15k on your 2 year old sled that you've had out 6 times. I was considering getting the 858 but the dealer just kinda laughed when I asked him about trade value
Arctic Cat was building the Yamaha Chassis so of course their Production Volume will be down in 2026.. I assume the 2025 sleds have already been built.
@@AjStoffle Bejing Biden put an Embargo against Russia. Russia was a large market for Yamaha's 2024 was the last year for Yamaha sales every place except for the USA. 2025 is the last year for Yamaha sled sales in the USA
i was gonna ask a question but it was to long for instagram lol, but i found a way to revise it to be shorter lol. would you rather, 30k stocker, or 15k sled with 15k in mods
@@brentcook24 cause in my mind its simple. if you dont care about warranty you can get a matryx rmk, do anything rail related, do a turbo, probably any set of shocks you want, probably pay someone if the sled you found wasnt the right lenght, handlebars and probably more. vs warranty if something breaks
Today, Textron announced they are pursuing "strategic alternatives" for their powersports business. Generally speaking, "strategic alternatives" in the corporate world 95% of the time means it's for sale.
I newzTV reported today that the Arctic Cat plants in Thief River Falls and St. Cloud will be shut down indefinitely in the middle of 2025 after manufacturing commitments are reached. The employees left will be layed off. If Polaris was smart they would buy their patents and name and build Arctic Cats in Roseau.
@jasons2054 With BRP selling both the Ski-doo and Lynx brands with a different market focus there is no reason that Polaris couldn't do the same with Arctic Cat. Plus there is plenty of money to be made selling parts and accessories for an already installed customer base.
The wakeboard boat industry is the same way, pricing many people out of the sport. Interest rates, taxes keep me from ever going new on sleds. So I buy a low mile used sled . New 20k+ is getting wild.
I use to buy a new sled every year or every two years at most. I started buying new in 95 until the 2010's. The prices just got crazy every year and today they are insane... I bought Cat too and think they make great sleds.. The entire industry is destroying itself. I have seen it at the dealer level in the early 2000's. They screwed over dealers and closed them without a care..It's sad but I don't see the industry getting better anytime soon. My dealer in upstate NY use to snocheck 150 new sleds a year and sell another 200 used sleds. Now a dealer near me is lucky to snow check 12 sleds a year and nothing used.
I bought a new 2024 Catalyst Riot 600 1.75 that my dealer had leftover. I used to buy a new sled every other year or so, but now it's like every 7 or 8 years. The other issue, at least where I live in the Black Hills, SD (baby mountains) they only stock a few crossover sleds, and those sell out right away while dozens and dozens of mountain sleds just sit. It's assumed that everyone has the time and money to travel out west all winter long, but very few do.
I live in the North Dakota red river valley literally the flattest land on planet earth yet when you go to a dealership 90 percent of the sleds are mountain sleds, you have to drive at least 15 hours 1 direction to see a mountain from here
Your comment about bare stock truck. I bought a couple in the 90s. I modified it way cheaper than the dealer options. Radio, tires rims etc. Not a bad philosophy
I meet more people who say they cannot afford sport anymore. Price is everything. I cannot afford new sleds. I only buy used. Snowmobiles cost way too much!! That is the reality. I know people want fastest and best. I feel that the industry chose a dead end road to travel down. I remember in my 20s buying a new sled. Now I am 40. I look for nice used. Lack of snow and snowmobiles built for the rich only. These sleds need to get back to basics. 340cc 440cc. Sled that people can afford! Reliable and affordable.
@RogerThat94 My cabin is in curtis in the U.P...50/50 amazing on trail. Haven't played alot off yet but just playing in the 4 foot of powder we had over Thanksgiving it didn't struggle very playful front end pulls up with ease over my old 19 assault 144 800 ...so far this is a huge upgrade
Back to your truck question. If Dodge built a 93 Cummins 4x4 exactly the way they were originally built. Im guessing it would be a 40 thousand dollar truck. They wouldn't be able to keep em on the lot.
You guys are close but let me clue in on manufacturing. I work for a high end auto manufacture,we can produce an suv for 30k and turn around and sell that SUV for almost 200k. With inflation now at its highest point in decades and winter sport manufacturers that 20+k machine was built for 45 hundred dollars, now the manufacturers mark up the 45 hundred dollar machine to the dealer for 11 to 12k and they in turn mark it up to 20k +. This is unsastainable for the market today because of inflation and a shortend riding season.
Bought a 2014 ZR5000 new Arctic Cat non turbo 4 stroke $8900 list, 2016 ZR5000 $9100 Awesome trail sleds that were $4000 less than others. Still rides the same with 5000 miles on it and dont need to rebuild shocks. My motor prolly good for 60,000 miles at least. Best valu sled of the time and people pooo hooed it. They discontinued it for 2018. Now people are whining sleds are too expensive plus spend $1000's for extras and think they need to rebuild them fancy shocks every year. Had also bought a new 2012 polaris 600 shift $7100. Great sled, fast needed nothing but a rider. Things are crazy expensive now to buy a trail sled.
For what it's worth, i believe there was a time frame in the recent past that sleds had more beneficial advancements to make them absolutely great. I'd say 2015-2020. They were selling great and quite honestly worth it (like $15000 mark) for a loaded sled. Then turbos and tech entered. In my opinion, it really took a lot away from the sport and priced the average consumer out. I am thinking/hoping Cat is gonna come outta this ok in the end. Cuz Polaris and Doo dealers are sitting on MOUNTAINS of inventory. Dealers can't give these sleds away right now because they're overpriced... like WAY overpriced
People do not buy cheap sleds. It was not that long ago that skidoo made a air cooled 500ss and i do not think i have ever seen one. I can't remember ever seeing a ski doo freeride outside of a dealer showroom.
The manufacturers are pricing themselves out of the market. Who can afford to plunk down almost if not more than $20k for a snowmobile? Most people would probably have to finance it. It's not just snowmobiles, it's watercraft, boats, cars and trucks too.. Unfortunately snowmobiles are the ones getting hit the hardest, being that the riding season is so short. Pricing needs to come down to a more affordable level
I rode for 30 years got tired of playing the no snow game got tired of having to spend 1200 to ride per weekend going north aint cheap i am southern Minnesota most years are barley ridable here. Sold my last sled 2 winters ago was thinking about getting back in but from what i see looks like another bunk year again overall. Got a friend who works at a Polaris dealer in Minneapolis they are not doing well atm
Hate to hear that, but understand with the no snow and prices! these winters have definitely been brutal and sucks the Midwest has been struggling to get snow. Hoping they get some this winter for the sake of people like your friend in the industry.
Russia was one of the biggest buyers of Yamaha snowmobiles, Arctic Cat built Yamaha, since Bidenomics put sanctions on Russia and they can’t buy them I think that just put to much pressure on an already fragile market especially since the 23 flop of no snow, I’m from North Dakota and went to college in thief river falls drove buy the plant every day, you would think since the manufacturer is less than an hour away there would be Arctic cat dealers on every corner, Fargo cat went out of business last year , the grand forks cat dealer left years ago , one car sales place sells cat now obviously that was a bad idea to do now , I think its going to be a little scary yet but if Trump lifts the sanctions on Russia the world’s economy will get better
I find that hard to believe that Yamaha was funding it all. Arctic cat is owned by textron and they are as big if not bigger than Yamaha. I don’t think textron wants Yamaha. They didn’t seam to exited about it when they purchased Arctic cat.
You can't force people to be financially responsible. Just like the auto industry - some of the first vehicles to roll of the line are the top-of-the-line models. And they sell. Nobody is FORCING you to buy a boost or a turbo R.
The market is Minnesota,Wisconsin and Michigan. If there's no snow there all going under folks. This has nothing to do with a cheaper sled because thay already have that. But the market is muscle sleds. I bought a renegade adrenaline 850 base for $13.500 new. That's pretty cheap. Sold it that year for 13k because no snow.
I live in Wiscosin and right now the state is getting hit but rain next week,hope atleast up north gets pounded,last year sucked and not looking good now
I love to snowmobile but there is just to many (professional snowmobilers ) which we didn’t have 20 yrs ago, now and all the stuff and all the technology and all the inflated prices! Regular Joes like me don’t buy a new sled every yr or even every 2 yrs! I buy one and use it tell it blows up. Can’t afford $16000 every yr sorry! Don’t have a money tree lying around!
If they all made cheap stuff that’s fun. Not capable, not powerful, just fun. Like a kids sled upgraded to handle an adult. That’s fun trying to stay on it and trying to climb small things in the yard. But these new sleds are so capable it’s almost impossible to have a challenge without going to a mountain. Like keep the big sleds for the guys that can go to the mountains every week end and are looking to climb everything but add like a sled the size of an old Elan and put in a 600 in it. Or even bring back triples
Don’t forget the Canadian 🇨🇦market. These sleds are about 30% more expensive up here plus all the taxes. Sleds are way over priced . It’s a rich person sport now.too much tech has killed the sport I’m an old guy . They have gone from off road tractor to now they are lik3 a corvette
Fight to be the best. Increase prices go out of business. Get back to basics. Basic snowmobile that is very reliable. If you go cheap it needs to be bullet proof simple and I believe family will buy these for their kids etc. choice between buy one sled for 15k or buy two or three cheaper so my kids and wife can ride with me
Corporations jacked pricing up in every aspect of the markets during the pandemic,and they never really came down,only up.Heavy equipment,sxs,Atv's all overpriced.Buying used is the way to go.
Lots of cats here in nw wi. but the last 5 years trail's have only been open a had full of times. And when you ad the price of a new sled it's out of the question!
Yamaha has gone the cheaper route with their 2 stroke dirtbikes. They are an old but proven design. No bells and whistles but it's a good Ole 2 stroke and you know what you are getting. Well, KTM just went bankrupt and they are the one pushing the limits and they sell way more new bikes. Maybe you are onto something
My mom bought my dad a brand new 440 everest in 1979 for under 900$ thats equivalent to $3500 in todays money. Its no different than trucks and everything. The cost of new stuff has skytocketed way fast than inflation. Grmated theyre far more capable so there is more value, but i know guys that were dumping 30+k into mod sleds in the 90's as well and todays factory sleds would destroy those machines. As far as entry level sleds, imo thats the used market. Why woukd you go buy an expensive new entry level sled for 15+k when you can buy a top of the line, low mile sled thats 2 or three years old for the same or less
Ya cat built Yamahas and im sure that helped out cat building new sleds. But thats not whats been pulling cat along more like cat was carrying yamaha along. Cats had the best 4 stroke snowmobiles for many years now. The Yamaha motor been great for cat but the Suzuki 1100 turbo that was introduced in 2009 with 180 HP charging the industry forever. I raced cat here in the NE since 2024-2017. SX and pro XC many wins and championships in my cats. Cat dominated XC for 2 decades now polaris just came to the party last couple years. I wouldn’t say Cat was or way behind doo or Polaris. In the midwest the only sled that 4:36 could win a XC race was a cat except the past few years. Cats engines have the best track record in the industry for HP and reliability. Its a fact look at all cats engines since 1990 i cant think of one plagued with problems. I can think of many from cat and doo though. Same goes for updates and shit Polaris always has a bunch doo has there share to. Not saying cat doesn’t haven’t bought new since 2017 my last racer. Iv been riding since i was 5 im now 45. Mechanic engine builder was a pro snowmobile racer. Love my cats been tough as nails for me iv broke very little parts. My father has new doos and 2024 catalysts. I ride his doos great sleds really enjoy riding them. But cant say there better than cats some ways they are some ways there not. Really dont think the catalyst is that much better than the pro cross trail riding anyway off trail probably lot better but idk. The seat is a way to hard on the new catalyst for long days in the saddle. The suspension valved to stiff feels like my XC race sled and thats way to stiff for average trail riders. Cat has made the fastest snowmobile forever now since the 650 wildcat anyway lol!!
why aren't the manufacturers focusing on the entry level? it only makes sense to target new riders with affordable entry level machines instead of pushing 20k plus machines in every ad you see.I paid less for my new leftover '24 sled than I did for my '23 atv. I will never upgrade to a 20k plus machine.how much farther can r and d go to improve a machine for a weekend rider ? keep them affordable and let aftermarket develop the rest.
I bought my 2017 xlt f350 with a sticker price of 68,000 and 10 grand off in 2018 Looking for a suv for the wife , new ranger lariat is 63,000 sticker price, you cant convince me to buy any ranger for the price of a 1 ton diesel. Insane prices for everything these days.
Same with the car industry. Especially with dodge. They have lots of 2024 stuff sitting on the lot with 2025s rolling in. They pay money to have the car sit on their lot. The longer a car sits the more they pay for the car to sit. Prices need to drop
If makers put out a decent machine that people could afford. Something reliable. Young guys have been priced out. I had a wrecked atv and I had trouble finding someone to fix it. The guy I find told me to bring in every scrap I could find because a plain jane bolt could cost 8 bucks. Manufacturers need to get rid of high buck corporate staff.
With Kids nowadays always on their phone or games , they got no interest. And sleds so high priced , its very sad . As for Arctic Cat , Textron is ruining the Cat name . Like Cat or not we need all the manufacturers in the business . It sure didnt help no snow in Minnesota last year .
Yea the market is done. They do t offer what i want or anything close in value. I don't want any tech on it at all. Your phone can handle everything that useless dash will ever tell you. No incentive to provide something reliable in the market. Good luck
The shocking thing to me is many want Arctic Cat to fail. I don't understand why people want a brand to fail. Going down to a duopoly doesn't help snowmobiling. Prices will go up and innovation will stop. BRP is going to get killed with Trump's 25% tarrifs. However, the Canadian government will always bail them out. Polaris is in tough shape too. In fact, they might be worse off than Arctic because they don't have a huge conglomerate like Textron backing them. I bought a new Catalyst Riot 600 and it's an excellent crossover.
@brentcook24 Absolutely. I hope Arctic Cat can continue to get 4 stroke engines from Yamaha because that is definitely an advantage for them in the trail market. Those 998 turbos are still fast AF! Too much for me! Arctic Cat really needs a dual rail mountain sled, too. I don't think they should get rid of the monorail Alpha because it definitely has a market, but so many people say it's terrible to ride. Not sure because I just trail and boondock on a crossover 146.
They are all completely out pricing the majority of the market share. You are always going to have your hardcore riders that want the best machine with all the bells and whistles. The barrier to entry is just to high. Need a machine that sells for between 6-8K.
When is the last time you can buy a sled with no recalls, or very little. Manufacturers need to spend more time fine tuning the sleds instead of rushing them out or trying to the best out there. Would sell more of a reliable sled instead of the next best option that recalls in a month.
Their pricing is ridiculous, couple that with no snow and they’ll all go broke. You can buy decent sleds for 20% the price of new. Why would anyone in their right mind buy a new sled with the winters we have?
Did you guys somehow miss Muskoka's day 1 on his 25' Expert? He went out with 9 Polaris riders and basically just sat and filmed. I mean yea he was riding with Keith Curtis who - in my opinion is the best rider out there - but what was the common denominator? Polaris. Show me a BRP rider doing that shit. I'll wait...
I live in Manitoba, 62 yrs old and still love riding. My take on the industry is the only people who are out there are us grey hairs. Rarely see the younger riders out. To expensive, no interest, etc. so glad I grew up when I did.
Come do some mountain riding out in BC. 98% of the riders out here are under 40, lots of young bucks like myself are keeping the sport going. However, the manufacturers are due for a reality check. $30k for a sled is outrageous.
The entire industrybis pricing us out of the sport, a gallon of oil $75; a belt going on $250, $1200+ for a monosuit, goggles, the list goes on.
True. Time to go back to the ole Carhartt mono suits, buy a greasy triple and rip like its 1999
@@2sleds1summit Can't beat the smell and sound from those old sleds and they hauled the mail on a lake.
And the new sleds are junk
Don’t forget the $16k enclosed trailer
I could not have imagined a snowmobile costing more than the first truck I bought. The world has gone completely insane.
Pretty wild the prices on everything these days for sure but definitely crazy how our hobby has turned into such an expensive sport!
I’m a big fan of Arctic cat from MI and my heart really goes out to them. All of snowmobiling is hurting right now. Arctic cat needs a fresh start. Only make trail sleds, focus on building a cheaper more affordable sled and getting families back into riding again. They need to re-kindle the passion for snowmobiling again and the Arctic cat name that sparked such a huge cult following.
I think all the manufacturers are pricing people out of the sport. I mean every year they go up thousands. I don’t know how anyone can buy one every year
Couldn’t agree more it’s gotten out of hand! I have no idea how they can correct it but definitely keeping to overproduce and reck the re sale value is not helping any of us.
that and the lack of snow last 4 yrs in the northeast! wouldn’t want to be a dealer that’s for sure 😢
Totally 10 years ago when you get a top of line sled for 12-14k and you could work 10-20 ot shifts a year to cover the cost of that. 30k ? Comon
Way way way over priced all of them.people are not gonna spend that much money on a mabie sport weather relaint.
Absolutely. The average family can't get into the sports. My only hobby is snowmobiling . Low snow has a lot of die hards rethinking.
Snowmobiles that are 20k plus dollars is crazy. Parts are outrageous, the sport in itself is crazy expensive.
Side by sides are crazy overpriced if anyone hasn't noticed.
Retired out of the game now, but as a 45+ year veteran snowcat rider with deep experience from ditch banging, ice racing, mountain riding, trail rider, et al that last bought a Polaris Pro RMK 800HO around 2019, that sled was way more capable than I was and got me into places I shouldn't be at that stage in my life for under $11k OTD. Most amazing thing I'd ever ridden, all the years of dumping huge $$$$ into mod sleds, out the box it was the best you could ask for. What else could you really need than that? Had huge fun seasons on M7 Cats, Escape RMKs, Rev Summits, Mountain Max triples, but the lightness of the Pro chassis Polaris with a hot twin 800 or Summit Gen4, honestly what else does 85-90% of the market actually need? Economics of owning toys is gone and the lifeblood of the sport, working class men 18-40 is gone. No one can afford multiple toys at $15k-25k+ each, vehicle and trailer to pull them at $60K+, fuel at $5/gal to run them, consumable parts that don't last for $2k/season, etc etc etc. Sad but it'll all go away- all because of corporate greed via investor paybacks for the OEMs, ridiculous federal regulations, and ultimately lack of interest and feasibility of ownership by the next generations. The world can't finance it way to sustainability for everything.....
Oh yeah, and a thing called a changing climate. 72 year old trail rider here. I have a 2004 Firecat F7 EFI NightFire. Last time on the snow was back in 2008. Sitting in near climate control storage with 800 miles on the OD. It has become such an expensive destination sport, I just could not keep up after buying my first home.
totally agree skating and skiing is gone also! Use to love the pond hockey days and skiing at local hills! Its all gone dosent' even get cold enough to skate and the ski areas are all closed!!!!!!!
I’m 30. When I was a kid in Michigan, every kid my age had a carbed 440 or something that would ride around on. Now I don’t even know kids in my area that would have a sled, and the winters have been so inconsistent I don’t know where or when they would ride them. It’s terribly sad, the end of an era. Now everyone just rides side by sides.
Definitely crazy we have to find a way to keep the younger generations in the sport for sure! Having access to places to ride and affordable sleds to ride. Side by sides have definitely started to take over
It's not just snowmobiling and recreational... it's nearly every industry. Agriculture equipment is out of whack with poor prices and ungodly expensive equipment... which in turn affects the rest of the population, which comes full circle back to snowmobiles and recreational.
When people's pocket books can't pencil out expenses, a lot of things take a back seat.
Amen the ag market is a huge with this as well
its simple,50% of market doesn't live where there is snow to ride 6 months a year. people aren't buying $20k sled to ride a few weekends a year.
I agree
The other 50% that live in those areas they can ride 6 months a year can’t afford a 20k sled. I make 120k a year and still can’t find it in myself to buy a sled that costs that.
So don’t buy a 20k sled?
You can buy a last years model 650 for 11-12k. 10 years ago the MSRP of a Rush 600 was 10k, which in inflation adjusted dollars is $14,500 in 2024. The Matryx is a WAY better sled too.
Already been through all of this in the early 80's. It's a long haul, and things will be different coming out the other side.
I remember riding way back in the late 80s and early 90s you could buy a belt for 30$ now the same belt is 150$ plus you could buy runners wear bars for 20$ oil was 1$ quart helmets good one 75$ jackets were like 75$ tops now same jacket is 500$ all day. The sport has killed itself in a way. I refuse to buy new all that efi garbage no way electronics an snow/moisture is not good later. Having all those sensors feeding off each other in stupid carbs work fine less crap to deal with later having to take a sled to a dealer for all work is dumb. 1 sensor goes bad way out in the North 40 you are done
Similar to our 4 yrs drought in MN 2020-today,lake levels down,access to lakes bit restricted,maybe 25% fewer boats in our 15,000 lakes, Mississippi was so shallow from MN to Louisiana,winter is at least a month shorter since just 1988
If you want to be a better channel, do more research before commenting. Washington, Oregon have been having some of the best early season conditions in years. I just rode two days ago in 3' of powder with another 2-3' base in the Sierras. You also mentioned Ski-doo and Polaris guages without realizing that Arctic Cat's G8 guage by Garmin is hands down, the nicest, most impressive guage out there, not even close.
Midwest is #1 for sales. No snow=no sales. Even our dmv in Minnesota is begging us to buy a trail sticker. Sno x is dead also. Dreg racing without a 4 stroke turbo is history. These manufacturers better move to another side of town.
Gauge, A before U. 😉.
Snowmobiling has definitely become a hobby for the higher income people. When I was a kid in the 80's everyone had a snowmobile, now there's hardly any kids with sleds. Low snow and high prices are the biggest cause of this. Another problem is people seem to think if they don't have the top of the line sled they aren't going to have any performance. The fact is a bottom level 600 still has tremendous performance vs just a few years ago. Not everyone can afford a bmw m5 just like not everyone is entitled to be able to afford a boost, 9r or doo 850 turbos.
I agree 100% not everyone needs the top of the line, you just need something to get out and have fun
Yep. I have 1 2008 and 3 2009 Ski-Doo Summits. All were bought used at different times with ~1500 miles on them. All had small repairs needed when I got them, but I'm still into them and a used 4-position trailer for less than $9K. Yes they need some work occasionally, but all snowmobiles do. My family enjoys them immensely.
My boys will each get one of these when they move out of the house, and when the last one goes I'll buy a new one for myself.
@@brentcook24 I see Textron just suspended 25 production indefinitely.. pretty sad if they are done.
Almost everyone had a snowmobile around here also. I live between the two Minnesota snowmobile producers and now a fraction have newer snowmobile models. The rest ride 20+ year old machines or don't ride anymore. The ridiculous prices of everything is killing the powersports market.
I remember in the 1990s that the most popular models were in the 500 - 600 cc range. The top models weren't as popular.
@@jasons2054 Because everyone wasn't in a social media pissing match in the 1990s. If we're honest, most of us don't have the skill to put a top of the line machine to the test. Most putt around on the trail, and occasionally get off onto a meadow that is easy to see from the trail. I see it on every ride. I have gone with people that won't take their turbo 850 mountain sleds off trail, and are freaked out that I'm sidehilling on my 15 year old sleds.
The second year of a chassis isn’t necessarily a complete drop off because some wait a year to make sure all first year issues are taken care of. Year 3 is your dip year
You’re 100% right there for sure! I was definitely one of those people that had it planned for second year we will see!
I think the economy is pricing people out, everything is getting expensive. Its hard to justify dropping $ on a toy when snow has been spotty over last couple years when people are hurting.
The base model 858 has an MSRP of just under 16k USD. By most reports even the base model shocks are pretty decent on the Cat. So you can still get a decent entry level sled that has all the other goodies of the flagship sled minus the G8 and higher end shocks for reasonable.
I understand why they did the 600 last year but don’t get why its there for this year. By all accounts its not saving you weight and not saving that much $ over a base model 858.
I have only played with my G8 gauge in the garage so far but I think its way ahead of the polaris. Havent messed with the doo gauge.
I think a lot of people like the feeling of a 600 they claim it revs faster and is easier to ride for some people. That is what a lot of people claim at least. I don't have one. I agree things are soooooo expensive!
They’re marketing teams are doing amazing work, guys buy into the hype. Im probably an outlier but I still have my G4, it owes me nothing. I wrench on it myself almost every week but im in the sport with a few hundred dollars a year. If you can’t afford a brandnew sled every year just maintain your current sled. Yea a turbo or a big bore would be nice but the chassis haven’t changed much for the last 4-5years. My 2 cent
I agree the marketing teams are doing great! That is what a lot of people do it's a smart move!
I’m from Minnesota and now currently live in Wisconsin on the Minnesota border and I am one of those guys that would buy a no frills sled. I currently ride a Yamaha viper because I put a lot of trail miles on and it’s arguably the most reliable sled when the miles get up there. It’s also the only naturally aspirated 4 stroke sled on the market with good horsepower. I have nothing against turbos or two strokes, in fact I still ride a YZ 250 2 stroke dirtbike. For me a turbo just adds more complexity and failure points and the reality of a two-stroke is you’re looking at a very expensive rebuild right around that 7000 mile mark. before people get fired up I’m aware they can go longer, but if you’re into high mile riding like I am, rolling the dice when you’re 100 miles away from home is not something I’m into.
What current model snowmobile compares to the 90's snowmobiles like an XLT and then compare the costs. Its not as bad as you think, the problem is we all want the top of the line machines.
Recalls was also a huge thing for buying a certain brand
I live in south GA. I've never even seen a snow machine in person before. So I have no clue why I listened to this entire podcast. And was interested the whole time.. Hahaha. I did use to b a huge arctic cat at fan back in the day. They were on the cutting edge about 20 years ago. But the atv development just STOPPED about 2007..
Ski-doo makes a snowmobile for absolutely every niche of the market! And this makes it very difficult to for Arctic Cat and even Polaris to maintain a profitable market share. I bought an Expedition Extreme 850 a couple of years ago and when I crossed shopped other the other brands I was truly stunned about how much more selection Skidoo has in their line up.
Skidoo definitely does a great job at covering the entire market!
I spoke with the Track 2 Trail dealership owner in Sioux Falls, SD and he claimed powersports in general have just been selling extremely poor. The only new items people can afford is the ones with little to no extra options. I blame the government for printing all that money and handing out to everyone during covid. Created all this big boom in the economy and now its all a thing of the past.
I bought my 22’ Hardcore for like 16k out the door in MN. Now the local dealer is selling brand new M8000s for 10k and they can’t get rid of them. Used sleds aren’t moving at giveaway prices either! I’m not buying new anymore. I’ll just buy a year old sled with 200 miles on it next year for 8k less from a private party and skip paying all the bullshit dealer fees and taxes.
Good plan, but ultimately if no one is buying new there won’t be any used. BTW new sleds in Japan are way more expensive than even the US. In the countryside where I live you can buy a decent house for less than a new Cat.
Artie Cat, nope, its Arctic Cat.
All 3 of these guys know exactly what’s going on. I cant see a good outcome if these prices don’t come down. We have to remember how many bailouts BRP skidoo have been gone through. I don’t even own a skidoo and I’m paying taxes because we got an idiot for a prime minister that gave the bailout.
I think you've got your wires crossed. BRP is separate from Bombardier and hasn't taken any bailouts since the company was split.
@ how old are you???
@@fasterdura1772 47
He is correct,our Crime minister is a total idiot.
Its not just snowmobiles, its literally everything that's become too expensive. Were living in times of big monopolies and that is the end of story. The thing we should be talking about is how to break them up.
Definitely crazy how our hobby has gotten so expensive, but you’re 100% right everything is crazily priced these days!
Ski doo sport models were a smart idea!!
Most definitely!
I debated buying a yamaha 400 venom on 2022 but ended up buying a 22 backcountry 600efi for $9000 new
Just bought a new Ski Doo 4 stroke and now have to sell one of my Arctic Cat's. The 2002 ZL550 has given 2 decades of repair free pleasure and it's warm to drive. The 2018 ZR8000 constantly got warranty recall issues ( is at the dealer now; two weeks) and it's cold to drive. Can't wait to get it home to sell it. Never another Cat. Most of my sleds have been Polaris but gave up in 2006 when they started using biodegradable pistons. So it's up to Ski Doo to keep me sledding.
Ski doo makes the best sleds in the industry hands down. Iv owned a few up of them an never had issues.
They all have their problems when buying a new sled but some have more than others for sure.
I owned a 2002 ZL 550 and had a couple of Cougar 550 L/Cs before that. They were only 80 HP engines, but absolutely bulletproof simple piston port engines with dual VM38 carbs. They would run and run with little maintenance.
Polaris was buying pistons and motor parts from Mahle who I think also sells parts to Rotax/Ski Doo from what I know. Maybe this changed?
I think a big part of the problem is big names in the industry refer to everything as "the best" or "what is the best" rather then saying everything is good and it really comes down to rider talent. Because let's be honest. All 3 new platforms are amazing, and all 3 have things they shine in over the others, if you take all 3 new platforms in a NA trim, is one really the best? No, because we can do anything on one that we can on the other, so instead of referring to sleds as to what's better, the big names in the sport should be pushing RIDER SKILLS and the way each sled reacts to different riding styles.I feel like the whole "this sled is the best" attitude is what's killing the sport because as you know, majority of people are sheep and they can't think on their own, so they go fishing for info and all they hear is "this sled is the best". I personally still ride a 2018 mountain cat 153, I paid 15,600CAD for it brand new, and there are so many guys where I ride with brand new turbos they paid 30grand for because they are "the best" and aside from climbing straight up a hill, I go everywhere they go, not because my sled is the best, but because I can ride the thing!! Look at GGB mountain cans, anyone with any knowledge knows they are a garbage can, but they advertise great and got a bunch of embassidors to say they are the best and that spread like wild fire and now social media is full of people wondering why their sleds bog lol. Sorry for the rant... it's just my 2 cents. 90% of the people I see riding turbos have no buisness riding one, they only have one because it strokes their egos. It's like everyone is just looking for some sort of assurance or proof to back themselves up as to why their chosen brand is the best.
No snow! That's a big part of the problem.
Imo the single biggest issue is used sled values or even the ability to sell them at all. They sold so many machines over covid so there's a glut of used stuff on the market that u can't give away. So you're losing like 15k on your 2 year old sled that you've had out 6 times. I was considering getting the 858 but the dealer just kinda laughed when I asked him about trade value
Ya the used market is why I didn't get a new one this year as well. Just didn't make sense for me.
The stuff you are spewing about Arctic Cat isn’t exactly true. I’m a dealer, we can still get parts and sleds.
Like always I love the content. Definitely better on the sound quality this time. Cant wait for the video in the mountain on thursday!!!!
Thank you! And thank you hopefully on the right track for better and better!
Arctic Cat was building the Yamaha Chassis so of course their Production Volume will be down in 2026.. I assume the 2025 sleds have already been built.
Yes agree volume will definitely drop and yes I believe they said all 2025 production was finished before their lay offs started.
@@AjStoffle Bejing Biden put an Embargo against Russia. Russia was a large market for Yamaha's 2024 was the last year for Yamaha sales every place except for the USA.
2025 is the last year for Yamaha sled sales in the USA
The best selling SKU in Ski Doo's lineup is the expedition sport 600efi. A $10,000 dependable sled would sell.
Im sticking with 2002 mxz 700 I was going to get a newer sled but I ended up getting a yamaha raptor 700 I get more use out of it.
Makes sense
Let's put it this way in the side by side industry , I'm starting to see alot more CF motos out there cause they're cheap 🤷♂️🤔
i was gonna ask a question but it was to long for instagram lol, but i found a way to revise it to be shorter lol. would you rather, 30k stocker, or 15k sled with 15k in mods
Good question we will answer that in the next one! Thank you
@@brentcook24 cause in my mind its simple. if you dont care about warranty you can get a matryx rmk, do anything rail related, do a turbo, probably any set of shocks you want, probably pay someone if the sled you found wasnt the right lenght, handlebars and probably more. vs warranty if something breaks
sooooooooo today artic cat pulled the plug.
Today, Textron announced they are pursuing "strategic alternatives" for their powersports business. Generally speaking, "strategic alternatives" in the corporate world 95% of the time means it's for sale.
I newzTV reported today that the Arctic Cat plants in Thief River Falls and St. Cloud will be shut down indefinitely in the middle of 2025 after manufacturing commitments are reached. The employees left will be layed off.
If Polaris was smart they would buy their patents and name and build Arctic Cats in Roseau.
@jasons2054 With BRP selling both the Ski-doo and Lynx brands with a different market focus there is no reason that Polaris couldn't do the same with Arctic Cat. Plus there is plenty of money to be made selling parts and accessories for an already installed customer base.
The wakeboard boat industry is the same way, pricing many people out of the sport. Interest rates, taxes keep me from ever going new on sleds. So I buy a low mile used sled . New 20k+ is getting wild.
Your question on cheaper makes me think of Kawasaki KRX vs Polaris or can am. 2/3 the price better quality but less power and some performance
I use to buy a new sled every year or every two years at most. I started buying new in 95 until the 2010's. The prices just got crazy every year and today they are insane...
I bought Cat too and think they make great sleds.. The entire industry is destroying itself. I have seen it at the dealer level in the early 2000's. They screwed over dealers and closed them without a care..It's sad but I don't see the industry getting better anytime soon.
My dealer in upstate NY use to snocheck 150 new sleds a year and sell another 200 used sleds. Now a dealer near me is lucky to snow check 12 sleds a year and nothing used.
Ya there are certainly problems. Out here at least there are a lot of expensive sleds sold!
I bought a new 2024 Catalyst Riot 600 1.75 that my dealer had leftover. I used to buy a new sled every other year or so, but now it's like every 7 or 8 years. The other issue, at least where I live in the Black Hills, SD (baby mountains) they only stock a few crossover sleds, and those sell out right away while dozens and dozens of mountain sleds just sit. It's assumed that everyone has the time and money to travel out west all winter long, but very few do.
I live in the North Dakota red river valley literally the flattest land on planet earth yet when you go to a dealership 90 percent of the sleds are mountain sleds, you have to drive at least 15 hours 1 direction to see a mountain from here
Your comment about bare stock truck. I bought a couple in the 90s. I modified it way cheaper than the dealer options. Radio, tires rims etc. Not a bad philosophy
Textron should sell the company to the thief river falls community and let them run it....
I meet more people who say they cannot afford sport anymore. Price is everything. I cannot afford new sleds. I only buy used. Snowmobiles cost way too much!! That is the reality. I know people want fastest and best. I feel that the industry chose a dead end road to travel down. I remember in my 20s buying a new sled. Now I am 40. I look for nice used. Lack of snow and snowmobiles built for the rich only. These sleds need to get back to basics. 340cc 440cc. Sled that people can afford! Reliable and affordable.
Prices are insane! Of course they are
The lack of snow in the USA makes it very expensive to be in this sport.
100% just bought a 24 Switchback 850 146 ..saved 6k over a 2025
What kind of terrain do you ride. I want to throw a leg over the switchback but feel like I need a 155
Why would you buy a Polaris there just like a condom one time use Ha ha ha ha ha ha
@RogerThat94 My cabin is in curtis in the U.P...50/50 amazing on trail. Haven't played alot off yet but just playing in the 4 foot of powder we had over Thanksgiving it didn't struggle very playful front end pulls up with ease over my old 19 assault 144 800 ...so far this is a huge upgrade
Back to your truck question. If Dodge built a 93 Cummins 4x4 exactly the way they were originally built. Im guessing it would be a 40 thousand dollar truck. They wouldn't be able to keep em on the lot.
You guys are close but let me clue in on manufacturing. I work for a high end auto manufacture,we can produce an suv for 30k and turn around and sell that SUV for almost 200k. With inflation now at its highest point in decades and winter sport manufacturers that 20+k machine was built for 45 hundred dollars, now the manufacturers mark up the 45 hundred dollar machine to the dealer for 11 to 12k and they in turn mark it up to 20k +. This is unsastainable for the market today because of inflation and a shortend riding season.
Bought a 2014 ZR5000 new Arctic Cat non turbo 4 stroke $8900 list, 2016 ZR5000 $9100
Awesome trail sleds that were $4000 less than others. Still rides the same with 5000 miles on it and dont need to rebuild shocks. My motor prolly good for 60,000 miles at least.
Best valu sled of the time and people pooo hooed it. They discontinued it for 2018.
Now people are whining sleds are too expensive plus spend $1000's for extras and think they need to rebuild them fancy shocks every year.
Had also bought a new 2012 polaris 600 shift $7100.
Great sled, fast needed nothing but a rider.
Things are crazy expensive now to buy a trail sled.
It's just too expensive get into the sport period now. Your looking at 8-12k for a good used sled, and 20k + on a new one
That's why I stick with 2002 mxz 700 I really don't seen the need for new sled. The only only thing I wish I had was EFI.
I agree
Ya if you don't have a decent newer sled to sell every 3-4 years it's alot to get into it
For what it's worth, i believe there was a time frame in the recent past that sleds had more beneficial advancements to make them absolutely great. I'd say 2015-2020. They were selling great and quite honestly worth it (like $15000 mark) for a loaded sled. Then turbos and tech entered. In my opinion, it really took a lot away from the sport and priced the average consumer out.
I am thinking/hoping Cat is gonna come outta this ok in the end. Cuz Polaris and Doo dealers are sitting on MOUNTAINS of inventory. Dealers can't give these sleds away right now because they're overpriced... like WAY overpriced
People do not buy cheap sleds. It was not that long ago that skidoo made a air cooled 500ss and i do not think i have ever seen one. I can't remember ever seeing a ski doo freeride outside of a dealer showroom.
The manufacturers are pricing themselves out of the market. Who can afford to plunk down almost if not more than $20k for a snowmobile? Most people would probably have to finance it. It's not just snowmobiles, it's watercraft, boats, cars and trucks too.. Unfortunately snowmobiles are the ones getting hit the hardest, being that the riding season is so short. Pricing needs to come down to a more affordable level
I rode for 30 years got tired of playing the no snow game got tired of having to spend 1200 to ride per weekend going north aint cheap i am southern Minnesota most years are barley ridable here. Sold my last sled 2 winters ago was thinking about getting back in but from what i see looks like another bunk year again overall. Got a friend who works at a Polaris dealer in Minneapolis they are not doing well atm
Hate to hear that, but understand with the no snow and prices! these winters have definitely been brutal and sucks the Midwest has been struggling to get snow. Hoping they get some this winter for the sake of people like your friend in the industry.
If ATVs were allowed on public trails in the winter it would help out big. No where to ride in the winter. I would buy the track kit.
Russia was one of the biggest buyers of Yamaha snowmobiles, Arctic Cat built Yamaha, since Bidenomics put sanctions on Russia and they can’t buy them I think that just put to much pressure on an already fragile market especially since the 23 flop of no snow, I’m from North Dakota and went to college in thief river falls drove buy the plant every day, you would think since the manufacturer is less than an hour away there would be Arctic cat dealers on every corner, Fargo cat went out of business last year , the grand forks cat dealer left years ago , one car sales place sells cat now obviously that was a bad idea to do now , I think its going to be a little scary yet but if Trump lifts the sanctions on Russia the world’s economy will get better
Great information thank you! Yes let’s hope things turn around!!!
I find that hard to believe that Yamaha was funding it all. Arctic cat is owned by textron and they are as big if not bigger than Yamaha. I don’t think textron wants Yamaha. They didn’t seam to exited about it when they purchased Arctic cat.
The industry is fighting to win every battle. In the end they will lose the war.
You can't force people to be financially responsible. Just like the auto industry - some of the first vehicles to roll of the line are the top-of-the-line models. And they sell. Nobody is FORCING you to buy a boost or a turbo R.
The problem started along time ago when idiots pay $ 1000s of dollars for a penny or a sports ball card worth a nickel
doing my part, up grade what you can afford
The market is Minnesota,Wisconsin and Michigan. If there's no snow there all going under folks. This has nothing to do with a cheaper sled because thay already have that. But the market is muscle sleds. I bought a renegade adrenaline 850 base for $13.500 new. That's pretty cheap. Sold it that year for 13k because no snow.
I live in Wiscosin and right now the state is getting hit but rain next week,hope atleast up north gets pounded,last year sucked and not looking good now
If the trails in Wisconsin dont open up in the north this xmas its over for polaris too
All manufacturers whether it’s sleds, cars/trucks, power sports, marine, RVs are pricing customers out of their products.
I love to snowmobile but there is just to many (professional snowmobilers ) which we didn’t have 20 yrs ago, now and all the stuff and all the technology and all the inflated prices! Regular Joes like me don’t buy a new sled every yr or even every 2 yrs! I buy one and use it tell it blows up. Can’t afford $16000 every yr sorry! Don’t have a money tree lying around!
To much for throw away sleds was sold as family sport thats how it started its gone now
If they all made cheap stuff that’s fun. Not capable, not powerful, just fun. Like a kids sled upgraded to handle an adult. That’s fun trying to stay on it and trying to climb small things in the yard. But these new sleds are so capable it’s almost impossible to have a challenge without going to a mountain. Like keep the big sleds for the guys that can go to the mountains every week end and are looking to climb everything but add like a sled the size of an old Elan and put in a 600 in it. Or even bring back triples
Don’t forget the Canadian 🇨🇦market. These sleds are about 30% more expensive up here plus all the taxes. Sleds are way over priced . It’s a rich person sport now.too much tech has killed the sport I’m an old guy . They have gone from off road tractor to now they are lik3 a corvette
The entire industry has been on an unsustainable trajectory for the better part of a decade now.
Fight to be the best. Increase prices go out of business. Get back to basics. Basic snowmobile that is very reliable. If you go cheap it needs to be bullet proof simple and I believe family will buy these for their kids etc. choice between buy one sled for 15k or buy two or three cheaper so my kids and wife can ride with me
I unfortunately think this is the end of Artic Cat
Just like vehicles, prices are too high.
Corporations jacked pricing up in every aspect of the markets during the pandemic,and they never really came down,only up.Heavy equipment,sxs,Atv's all overpriced.Buying used is the way to go.
Lots of cats here in nw wi. but the last 5 years trail's have only been open a had full of times. And when you ad the price of a new sled it's out of the question!
Yamaha has gone the cheaper route with their 2 stroke dirtbikes. They are an old but proven design. No bells and whistles but it's a good Ole 2 stroke and you know what you are getting. Well, KTM just went bankrupt and they are the one pushing the limits and they sell way more new bikes. Maybe you are onto something
It is an interesting argument because there are pros and cons of going each direction!
Have you heard anything about John deer getting involved with cat
My mom bought my dad a brand new 440 everest in 1979 for under 900$ thats equivalent to $3500 in todays money. Its no different than trucks and everything. The cost of new stuff has skytocketed way fast than inflation. Grmated theyre far more capable so there is more value, but i know guys that were dumping 30+k into mod sleds in the 90's as well and todays factory sleds would destroy those machines. As far as entry level sleds, imo thats the used market. Why woukd you go buy an expensive new entry level sled for 15+k when you can buy a top of the line, low mile sled thats 2 or three years old for the same or less
Everything is crazy right now. Ya the used market can make more sense, I agree.
I'll just keep driving my 08 Yamaha Nytro that I paid $3400 for 5 years ago.
Ya cat built Yamahas and im sure that helped out cat building new sleds. But thats not whats been pulling cat along more like cat was carrying yamaha along.
Cats had the best 4 stroke snowmobiles for many years now. The Yamaha motor been great for cat but the Suzuki 1100 turbo that was introduced in 2009 with 180 HP charging the industry forever. I raced cat here in the NE since 2024-2017. SX and pro XC many wins and championships in my cats. Cat dominated XC for 2 decades now polaris just came to the party last couple years. I wouldn’t say Cat was or way behind doo or Polaris. In the midwest the only sled that 4:36 could win a XC race was a cat except the past few years. Cats engines have the best track record in the industry for HP and reliability. Its a fact look at all cats engines since 1990 i cant think of one plagued with problems. I can think of many from cat and doo though. Same goes for updates and shit Polaris always has a bunch doo has there share to. Not saying cat doesn’t haven’t bought new since 2017 my last racer. Iv been riding since i was 5 im now 45. Mechanic engine builder was a pro snowmobile racer. Love my cats been tough as nails for me iv broke very little parts. My father has new doos and 2024 catalysts. I ride his doos great sleds really enjoy riding them. But cant say there better than cats some ways they are some ways there not. Really dont think the catalyst is that much better than the pro cross trail riding anyway off trail probably lot better but idk. The seat is a way to hard on the new catalyst for long days in the saddle. The suspension valved to stiff feels like my XC race sled and thats way to stiff for average trail riders.
Cat has made the fastest snowmobile forever now since the 650 wildcat anyway lol!!
why aren't the manufacturers focusing on the entry level? it only makes sense to target new riders with affordable entry level machines instead of pushing 20k plus machines in every ad you see.I paid less for my new leftover '24 sled than I did for my '23 atv. I will never upgrade to a 20k plus machine.how much farther can r and d go to improve a machine for a weekend rider ? keep them affordable and let aftermarket develop the rest.
700.00 for my Bombardier,,1969 olympia 👍🏁
I bought my 2017 xlt f350 with a sticker price of 68,000 and 10 grand off in 2018
Looking for a suv for the wife , new ranger lariat is 63,000 sticker price, you cant convince me to buy any ranger for the price of a 1 ton diesel. Insane prices for everything these days.
Same with the car industry. Especially with dodge. They have lots of 2024 stuff sitting on the lot with 2025s rolling in. They pay money to have the car sit on their lot. The longer a car sits the more they pay for the car to sit. Prices need to drop
Inflation is a big factor! Just go food shopping, or go buy a new pickup. Government policies have sucked our spending money right out of us.
If makers put out a decent machine that people could afford. Something reliable. Young guys have been priced out. I had a wrecked atv and I had trouble finding someone to fix it. The guy I find told me to bring in every scrap I could find because a plain jane bolt could cost 8 bucks. Manufacturers need to get rid of high buck corporate staff.
With Kids nowadays always on their phone or games , they got no interest.
And sleds so high priced , its very sad . As for Arctic Cat , Textron is ruining the Cat name .
Like Cat or not we need all the manufacturers in the business .
It sure didnt help no snow in Minnesota last year .
Yea the market is done. They do t offer what i want or anything close in value. I don't want any tech on it at all. Your phone can handle everything that useless dash will ever tell you. No incentive to provide something reliable in the market. Good luck
The shocking thing to me is many want Arctic Cat to fail. I don't understand why people want a brand to fail. Going down to a duopoly doesn't help snowmobiling. Prices will go up and innovation will stop. BRP is going to get killed with Trump's 25% tarrifs. However, the Canadian government will always bail them out. Polaris is in tough shape too. In fact, they might be worse off than Arctic because they don't have a huge conglomerate like Textron backing them. I bought a new Catalyst Riot 600 and it's an excellent crossover.
Ya I don't understand why anyone would want a company to fail it is a ripple effect that is not good.
@brentcook24 Absolutely. I hope Arctic Cat can continue to get 4 stroke engines from Yamaha because that is definitely an advantage for them in the trail market. Those 998 turbos are still fast AF! Too much for me! Arctic Cat really needs a dual rail mountain sled, too. I don't think they should get rid of the monorail Alpha because it definitely has a market, but so many people say it's terrible to ride. Not sure because I just trail and boondock on a crossover 146.
They are all completely out pricing the majority of the market share. You are always going to have your hardcore riders that want the best machine with all the bells and whistles. The barrier to entry is just to high. Need a machine that sells for between 6-8K.
When is the last time you can buy a sled with no recalls, or very little. Manufacturers need to spend more time fine tuning the sleds instead of rushing them out or trying to the best out there. Would sell more of a reliable sled instead of the next best option that recalls in a month.
Running out of 70 yro wanting to spend 150k on a sled and 4x4.
For arctic cat to stay in the game they need to build more sleds and sell 5hem for under $5k a sled winters ar3 shorter and prices ar3 exp3nsive
Bottom like...the sleds cost too much for 2 months of use.
Their pricing is ridiculous, couple that with no snow and they’ll all go broke.
You can buy decent sleds for 20% the price of new. Why would anyone in their right mind buy a new sled with the winters we have?
Did you guys somehow miss Muskoka's day 1 on his 25' Expert? He went out with 9 Polaris riders and basically just sat and filmed. I mean yea he was riding with Keith Curtis who - in my opinion is the best rider out there - but what was the common denominator? Polaris. Show me a BRP rider doing that shit. I'll wait...
Guaranteed that most, if not all those guys did not pay for those sleds.
@@GruesomeGary And? Point is that they could ride for either company they choose to, but they chose Polaris.