I went out and got the TS4000 self-start nozzle with a bottle of MapPro today and it enabled me to finish a brazing job that I was unable to finish with the Propane bottle and standard nozzle. Yay!
Thank you for breaking that down! Very helpful and also explains why years ago it was much faster to complete a task with MAPP gas vs MAP pro today. Well done!
The temperature of the flame is not the only thing that maters. The power output of a MAP Pro torch is generally MUCH higher than a propane torch. I really wish they listed the output power in BTUs/hr on torches. But they don't. However, I've seen tests where they measured how hot the different torches were able to raise the temp of a piece of steel. The Map Pro resulted in almost 2X the change in temp for the hunk of steel. To help understand why power is more important them temp, imagine you're dumping 500 deg water on something with at 1 drop/sec. Now compare that to adding 510deg water (only slightly higher temp) but you're dropping it at 2 drops/second. The 2nd one isn't just better because it's a higher temp (510 vs 500) the more important number is it's delivering 2x as much water per second. That's analogous to why a MAP Pro torch delivery WAY more power than a propane torch even though the flame temp is only a little higher.
What if you add O2 to the propane? In theory, you can run an oxy/propane set up or a simple bottle of MAP/PRO without O2. So I wonder if your example isn’t an Apples to Oranges. Propane is certainly cheaper and more ubiquitous.
i used the same torch from my propane on my mapp pro bottle...i had no issues worked exactly like propane torch...but i guess it was 100 degrees hotter...i think using a special torch for map pro is a marketing thing... with old much hotter mapp gas it makes sense...
@@chocolate_squiggle Yes, I would agree with that. Although I haven't done a test where I measured it, I would bet a MAP Pro torch goes through gas at twice the rate of a regular propane torch.
They have to get the supply past multiple "Wolf Creek" type of Blokes. Very difficult and many have lost their lives in the effort. Hence the price gouge.
i was not able to melt solder to replace outdoor 1/2 faucet yesterday using propane... went autozone spent $12.50 for map pro... it worked. but it was more than likely water still in pipe ...no one was home so i could not open indoor faucet after shutting off main... finally i was able to open indoor faucet and solder melted...
Thank you so much. It is absolutely obvious that the consumer is intentionally mislead through the naming of MAP/Pro. MAPP Gas is a completely different product. An example of corporations colluding to hide knowledge to maintain an unfair advantage. Also known as intentional deception. I am deeply saddened by the obvious censorship of information that was at one time shared freely by all. You have helped to bring light into the world. Thank you bro!
Mapp Gas 1,500 Degrees Hotter than Propane ???? The numbers that I have found indicate Map-Pro gas burns hotter than the old Mapp gas except when used with oxygen. Current prices (Aug 2020) are about $3.50 vs $12.00 for disposable 14 once cylinders (difference of $7.50 or 3.5:1 cost ratio). Acetylene/oxygen 3,160 °C (5720 °F) Mapp Gas/oxygen 2,925 °C (5300 °F) Map-Pro Gas/oxygen 2,871 °C (5,200 °F) Propane/oxygen 2,800 °C (5,072 °F) Map-Pro/Air 2,054 °C (3,730 °F) Mapp Gas/Air 2,020 °C (3,670 °F) Propane/Air 1,980 °C (3,596 °F)
I recently watched this video to educate me on the differences between the various tanks of gas that are out there for the public to purchase. My understanding after watching your demonstration, is that “they” no longer make the Mapp Gas but only the MapPro. And yet last night I was on our local Home Depot and much to my surprise they had “Mapp” gas for sale. Both kinds in the yellow tanks. So am I missing something? Or did they decide to reintroduce the older kind of product to the consumer again?
I bought my dual line set up to take to the junk yard with me hidden in my tool box for loosening or cutting bolts and such since they are a no no there but I have a big torch in my garage to I just know much about the heat ranges of these gasses but these little thing’s can really be handy and with the big torch you can switch over to propane also if you happen to run out of gas or just need heat.i was going to do that today when I thought I was out of gas cause I haven’t used the big one in a while but come to find out it was oxygen I was out of
Depends on the size of pipe that's being soldered as well. Regular propane will solder 1/2 & 3/4" copper just fine, accessible location. However, 1" type L copper in a difficult spot , will be a pain. Better off using mappro in this situation.
The only factory that made it went out of business. Apparently it's not economically feasible to build a new factory or someone would have already done it.
Excellent clarification! Thank you! I'm thinking of going with the Acetylene/Oxygen combo simply because it's practically impossible to find the pre-filled propane or MAP/PRO (with a single P) bottles where I live, while the C²H²/O bottles filling service is readily available. Now having said that, I'm wondering what the inherent dangers associated with using C²H²/O are that I keep hearing about, and should that be a deterrent for a 1st time user like me?
Just don't run acetylene at higher pressure than 15 psi because it becomes explosive above that. I even heard of old timers using calcium carbonate and water to generate acetylene and fueling a torch with it, but I have no idea the dangers of doing that. Otherwise just filling acetylene cylinders isn't really dangerous. Your real limit is oxygen because a bottle doesn't last long, even a large one. For cutting honestly you are better off using plasma. It requires only compressed air and electricity and cuts cleaner than acetylene + oxygen. You really only need that for brazing, but propane and oxygen can braze too.
Thanks for the great video - Your right! They should of made a different color bottle- maybe purple or something. - Is Mapp gas still being made for consumers in the small bottles?
Still worth a extra couple bucks for the map pro in my opinion, its not like your going to use much of it. Your just going to wheel the oxy acetylene torches out for a bigger job. These little blowtorches are just very convenient for small jobs especially when you have to work on a boat or something thats a pain to get the torches out to. An extra 100 degrees is better then nothing and considering your not going to use more then 5 or 6 of these little cylinders a year were only talking about an extra $60 a year at most.
That extra 130° makes a difference. I always pay more and buy the yellow canisters over the blue. The last time I called myself saving money by buying the blue canister I ended up wasting time and returning to buy a yellow canister. My time is also worth something.
I have to wonder if this whole mapp gas burning a lot hotter must be folklore. Acetylene air burns about 200C hotter than mapp pro. There is no way Mapp gas burns hotter than acetylene air, considering it's similar thing... What I hate about acetylene is that the cylinder for it doesn't last long. Even if mapp pro burns only a little hotter than propane, it heats a lot faster than propane. This is important if you are brazing.
Is propane hot enough to heat up nuts to release them from rust? Im not talking 32mm nuts I'm just talking exhaust nuts 15mm.... I have been patient and used so much pb blaster and have broken 2 out of the first 3 bolts i have been messing with...i want to get heat now
@@johncrawford1076 so actually found original mapp gas bottles ? That's great. I should try to go out to country stores. Even found Ace small town store selling AR-15 and other guns like back in the day.
MAPP gas was a byproduct of an obsolete petroleum refining process. The last US plant that used that process closed in 2007. Apparently it's not economical to produce MAPP gas as a consumer product.
why cant they just sell acetylene in small bottles? would be great to have a kit without all the gauges and the caddy, with the bottles that are a pain to get refilled
Because of the extremely volatile /explosive nature of acetylene. You cannot store acetylene as a pressurized liquid gas like propane - the refillable acetylene cylinders are full of a diatomaceous earth /porous almost foam - like substrate as well as acetone liquid in which the acetylene is dissolved and thus able to be safely stored, otherwise acetylene explodes at any pressure above 20 psi spontaneously. Due to this, it is only safe to withdraw the acetylene from the cylinder at a certain rate, and that would not be much from a very small canister. Also acetylene is much more prone to backfire, sustained backfire, flashback and general catastrophic explosion and fire much more than propane, propylene, or substituted mapp gases like the dimethyl ether /propylene /propane blends. It would be great if someone would start to manufacture the old formula mapp gas which was a stabilized methylacetylene /propadiene /propane blend which with oxygen was available in small disposable canisters and could rival oxy-acetylene temperatures, but it is not available since about 2008.
Yes and No apparently. Great, humorous video But this guy did some tests and it depends on the burner attached, the Benz-8000 makes it even hotter and if a propane bottle is used on them both it virtually the same. Which is pretty close to what you found but closer to maybe 10-ish deg difference The old style propane nozzle won't fit the yellow, but the TS8000 fits both ruclips.net/video/VjRWRsLobpM/видео.html
Dang, that was interesting. In summary: Map Pro is not Mapp gas. but they use map and yellow to confuse folks. Bernzomatic USE to have yellow bottles with MAPP (2Ps) gas, but no more Map Pro will be 153 degrees hotter ONLY..IF you add a little O2 red bottle with it. So no difference between yellow bottle and blue unless you need SLIGHTLY hotter and plan on using O2 bottle in conjunction.. but that difference is so minimal you might as well go hotter and get Acetylene and O2 which gets about 500 degrees hotter. Thinks that is the summary. That and i wish i had seen this before i bought mine.
That's not true at all. MAPP is a mixture of methylacetylene (propyne), propadiene and propane. The MAP-Pro is a mixture composed only of propylene and propane. Completely different stuff and not nearly as hot.
Excellent delivery of need-to-know details
Took me a while to find an answer to my question online and this video did just that, concise and quite humorous, thanks
I thought I recalled there being 2 P's when is used it years ago. Thanks for helping me convince myself I'm not crazy.
I went out and got the TS4000 self-start nozzle with a bottle of MapPro today and it enabled me to finish a brazing job that I was unable to finish with the Propane bottle and standard nozzle. Yay!
Thank you for breaking that down! Very helpful and also explains why years ago it was much faster to complete a task with MAPP gas vs MAP pro today. Well done!
The temperature of the flame is not the only thing that maters. The power output of a MAP Pro torch is generally MUCH higher than a propane torch. I really wish they listed the output power in BTUs/hr on torches. But they don't. However, I've seen tests where they measured how hot the different torches were able to raise the temp of a piece of steel. The Map Pro resulted in almost 2X the change in temp for the hunk of steel. To help understand why power is more important them temp, imagine you're dumping 500 deg water on something with at 1 drop/sec. Now compare that to adding 510deg water (only slightly higher temp) but you're dropping it at 2 drops/second. The 2nd one isn't just better because it's a higher temp (510 vs 500) the more important number is it's delivering 2x as much water per second. That's analogous to why a MAP Pro torch delivery WAY more power than a propane torch even though the flame temp is only a little higher.
What if you add O2 to the propane?
In theory, you can run an oxy/propane set up or a simple bottle of MAP/PRO without O2. So I wonder if your example isn’t an Apples to Oranges. Propane is certainly cheaper and more ubiquitous.
i used the same torch from my propane on my mapp pro bottle...i had no issues worked exactly like propane torch...but i guess it was 100 degrees hotter...i think using a special torch for map pro is a marketing thing... with old much hotter mapp gas it makes sense...
Are you saying the torch goes through twice as much MAP Pro as it would regular Propane?
@@chocolate_squiggle Yes, I would agree with that. Although I haven't done a test where I measured it, I would bet a MAP Pro torch goes through gas at twice the rate of a regular propane torch.
@@chocolate_squiggle you'd use the MAP/Pro for a shorter duration to reach the desired temperature. really depends on the situation / application.
Thank you. This video ended my confusion for this subject, and that's not easy.
In 2 minutes 😁
You can buy mapp gas from uk as much as you want.. I'm an italian plumber working in the UK and I always use the one you wish it was full
Tell Donky Kong and the princess I said hi!
I swear I came to say the same thing hahahahaha.
3 dollars! Man it’s $9 here in Canada, and $15 for mapp
The price of socialism my friend
@@forresthinkson910 you got that right...
@@micahhawkes4001 Here in good 'ol Australia $15 for propane. Globalisation's working for someone.
@@startmeup775 wow 😳
They have to get the supply past multiple "Wolf Creek" type of Blokes. Very difficult and many have lost their lives in the effort. Hence the price gouge.
Thank you for explaining this so clearly. Thank you so much lol
Thanks for sharing the information and explaining difference. I initially thought that MAPP and MAP/Pro were similar.
i was not able to melt solder to replace outdoor 1/2 faucet yesterday using propane... went autozone spent $12.50 for map pro... it worked. but it was more than likely water still in pipe ...no one was home so i could not open indoor faucet after shutting off main... finally i was able to open indoor faucet and solder melted...
I'm told MAP doesn't flare like propane (while the torch is cold), so that might also be an advantage.
Holy crap, never knew that - wow. Thanks 👍🏻
Thank you so much. It is absolutely obvious that the consumer is intentionally mislead through the naming of MAP/Pro. MAPP Gas is a completely different product. An example of corporations colluding to hide knowledge to maintain an unfair advantage. Also known as intentional deception. I am deeply saddened by the obvious censorship of information that was at one time shared freely by all. You have helped to bring light into the world. Thank you bro!
Thanks! This is great information. I appreciate you sharing your expertise.
Why can't we have MAPP anymore? What did I miss? Has it been outlawed?
yes. outlawed.
Thw TS8000 handle is where it is about though. It even makes propane hotter, but for some reason the heat transfer if higher with the MAP Pro.
Thanks for this information
Thanks alot for the comparison!
So well explained. Thank you sir haha
How about using different tips? Seen where propane can be just as close to map with a good tip
Mapp stands for mixed acetylene-propane. Came on the market about 60 yrs. ago, supposed to be safer than pure acetylene, but rarely used
Methylacetylene propadiene propane. M.A.P.P.
Super concise, I really appreciate that
Thank you for your video bro
Mapp Gas 1,500 Degrees Hotter than Propane ????
The numbers that I have found indicate Map-Pro gas burns hotter than the old Mapp gas except when used with oxygen.
Current prices (Aug 2020) are about $3.50 vs $12.00 for disposable 14 once cylinders (difference of $7.50 or 3.5:1 cost ratio).
Acetylene/oxygen 3,160 °C (5720 °F)
Mapp Gas/oxygen 2,925 °C (5300 °F)
Map-Pro Gas/oxygen 2,871 °C (5,200 °F)
Propane/oxygen 2,800 °C (5,072 °F)
Map-Pro/Air 2,054 °C (3,730 °F)
Mapp Gas/Air 2,020 °C (3,670 °F)
Propane/Air 1,980 °C (3,596 °F)
Information is a key to knowledge. Thanks
I recently watched this video to educate me on the differences between the various tanks of gas that are out there for the public to purchase. My understanding after watching your demonstration, is that “they” no longer make the Mapp Gas but only the MapPro. And yet last night I was on our local Home Depot and much to my surprise they had “Mapp” gas for sale. Both kinds in the yellow tanks. So am I missing something? Or did they decide to reintroduce the older kind of product to the consumer again?
next time im there ill have to look closer. i just bought 4 bottles of map pro
It's likely map pro. They're all used interchangably now.
Great info, thanks!
Thanks that's helpful
Nice informative video - thanks.
Will the oxygen ignite without turning on the map valve?
Would it be safe to use with a Weber Q grill? Propane doesn't get hot enough to sear a steak without cooking it well done.
Why not? Without O2, it’s only about 130 degrees hotter.
Which fuel is better for cooking?
How can I get an original mapp gas can as a decoration
what about propylene?
I bought my dual line set up to take to the junk yard with me hidden in my tool box for loosening or cutting bolts and such since they are a no no there but I have a big torch in my garage to I just know much about the heat ranges of these gasses but these little thing’s can really be handy and with the big torch you can switch over to propane also if you happen to run out of gas or just need heat.i was going to do that today when I thought I was out of gas cause I haven’t used the big one in a while but come to find out it was oxygen I was out of
Dang. Thank you for this video.
Thanks for the info sir.
Why u think they stopped making MAPP ?
Depends on the size of pipe that's being soldered as well. Regular propane will solder 1/2 & 3/4" copper just fine, accessible location. However, 1" type L copper in a difficult spot , will be a pain. Better off using mappro in this situation.
I always used the MAPP with my Turbo Torch to speed things up. Aint worth the extra cost now. Anything larger than 1 1/2”(2”up) I go oxy/ace
Is PRO/MAX the same at MAP/PRO?....
For your safety, we can't sell those anymore.👎
What is the temperature difference between MAP/PRO+Oxygen and just MAPP PRO?
A lot. It will cut metal
Very informative 👏 thank you much.
What is better using silver solder for copper plumbing?
Where I live map/pro is 15 dollars a bottle now
Thanks, why was Mapp discontinued ?
The only factory that made it went out of business. Apparently it's not economically feasible to build a new factory or someone would have already done it.
I wish you would also added why they stopped caring MaPP?
Wow this was very good to know!
What about the red
Excellent clarification! Thank you!
I'm thinking of going with the Acetylene/Oxygen combo simply because it's practically impossible to find the pre-filled propane or MAP/PRO (with a single P) bottles where I live, while the C²H²/O bottles filling service is readily available.
Now having said that, I'm wondering what the inherent dangers associated with using C²H²/O are that I keep hearing about, and should that be a deterrent for a 1st time user like me?
Just don't run acetylene at higher pressure than 15 psi because it becomes explosive above that. I even heard of old timers using calcium carbonate and water to generate acetylene and fueling a torch with it, but I have no idea the dangers of doing that. Otherwise just filling acetylene cylinders isn't really dangerous. Your real limit is oxygen because a bottle doesn't last long, even a large one.
For cutting honestly you are better off using plasma. It requires only compressed air and electricity and cuts cleaner than acetylene + oxygen. You really only need that for brazing, but propane and oxygen can braze too.
Also map pro can be used upside down where I'm not positive, but I don't think propane works upside down
thanks a heap!
How do you mix oxygen with it? And what can you melt or not melt with the various temps. You are talking Fahrenheit I presume.
Thanks for the great video - Your right! They should of made a different color bottle- maybe purple or something. - Is Mapp gas still being made for consumers in the small bottles?
Hi can I use the same propane torch fitting for map pro ?
It’s more the torch head is the biggest difference
Still worth a extra couple bucks for the map pro in my opinion, its not like your going to use much of it. Your just going to wheel the oxy acetylene torches out for a bigger job. These little blowtorches are just very convenient for small jobs especially when you have to work on a boat or something thats a pain to get the torches out to. An extra 100 degrees is better then nothing and considering your not going to use more then 5 or 6 of these little cylinders a year were only talking about an extra $60 a year at most.
That extra 130° makes a difference. I always pay more and buy the yellow canisters over the blue. The last time I called myself saving money by buying the blue canister I ended up wasting time and returning to buy a yellow canister. My time is also worth something.
I have to wonder if this whole mapp gas burning a lot hotter must be folklore.
Acetylene air burns about 200C hotter than mapp pro. There is no way Mapp gas burns hotter than acetylene air, considering it's similar thing...
What I hate about acetylene is that the cylinder for it doesn't last long.
Even if mapp pro burns only a little hotter than propane, it heats a lot faster than propane. This is important if you are brazing.
The MAP gas is already done to me. Didn`t know that point.
WOW Thanks!!!!!!!
Is propane hot enough to heat up nuts to release them from rust? Im not talking 32mm nuts I'm just talking exhaust nuts 15mm....
I have been patient and used so much pb blaster and have broken 2 out of the first 3 bolts i have been messing with...i want to get heat now
ty brother
On a quest to find MAPP at mom and pop shops out in country.
So how'd you do ? Find any ? And who discontinued mapp gas and why ?
@@frankmontez6853 , did ok. Found several bottles at the locally owned Ace Hardware next town over
@@johncrawford1076 so actually found original mapp gas bottles ? That's great. I should try to go out to country stores. Even found Ace small town store selling AR-15 and other guns like back in the day.
I can't find anything about mapp gas being unavailable anymore, seems you can still order it no?
he said no... did you search for it???
@@roadstar499 from Uk you can order as much mapp gas as you want
Yeah! The Map pro contains acetylene and propane
so why is MAPP gone? it was great and most likely sold well...
GREED.
MAPP gas was a byproduct of an obsolete petroleum refining process. The last US plant that used that process closed in 2007. Apparently it's not economical to produce MAPP gas as a consumer product.
You can get from UK.. Here they never stopped selling MAPP GAS
Bought MAPP at Home Depot today
@@blight6080 not the original mapp....the original is gone
Home Depot sells MAPP cylinders
I still got a full tank of mapp gas
4 years ago and now it costs 40% more for a bottle of propane 😞
For small jobs I think I will use butane, heats up fast.
why cant they just sell acetylene in small bottles? would be great to have a kit without all the gauges and the caddy, with the bottles that are a pain to get refilled
Because of the extremely volatile /explosive nature of acetylene. You cannot store acetylene as a pressurized liquid gas like propane - the refillable acetylene cylinders are full of a diatomaceous earth /porous almost foam - like substrate as well as acetone liquid in which the acetylene is dissolved and thus able to be safely stored, otherwise acetylene explodes at any pressure above 20 psi spontaneously. Due to this, it is only safe to withdraw the acetylene from the cylinder at a certain rate, and that would not be much from a very small canister. Also acetylene is much more prone to backfire, sustained backfire, flashback and general catastrophic explosion and fire much more than propane, propylene, or substituted mapp gases like the dimethyl ether /propylene /propane blends. It would be great if someone would start to manufacture the old formula mapp gas which was a stabilized methylacetylene /propadiene /propane blend which with oxygen was available in small disposable canisters and could rival oxy-acetylene temperatures, but it is not available since about 2008.
They ruin everything. Can't just give us the good stuff. We gotta make it ourselves.
Propane vs Map pro.
The difference of heat is 4% with 6 dollar gap.
They make Mapp gas in texas so idk where you live
I'm just using it for baking so I think either does the job
GREAT video! Super helpful! 👍🏻
Where in the world are you?!
A 14.1 oz propane in about $10 here and MAP/PRO is around $17.
Dang that's insane
Haha costs $20 in newzealand
For propane that is
@@ktm324rider8 Just paid 20 US dollars on map pro canister in Romania,europe.
Rothenberger is even more expensive.
i still got a full can of mapp gas :)
Oxy propane does it for me jeweler !
I have a full bottle of mapp gas...
Yes and No apparently. Great, humorous video
But this guy did some tests and it depends on the burner attached, the Benz-8000 makes it even hotter and if a propane bottle is used on them both it virtually the same.
Which is pretty close to what you found but closer to maybe 10-ish deg difference
The old style propane nozzle won't fit the yellow, but the TS8000 fits both
ruclips.net/video/VjRWRsLobpM/видео.html
I disagree with this guy. Map/pro is perfect, there are torch nozzles that introduce oxygen to the flame better…. I think its the benzomatic ts800?
Dang, that was interesting. In summary: Map Pro is not Mapp gas. but they use map and yellow to confuse folks. Bernzomatic USE to have yellow bottles with MAPP (2Ps) gas, but no more Map Pro will be 153 degrees hotter ONLY..IF you add a little O2 red bottle with it. So no difference between yellow bottle and blue unless you need SLIGHTLY hotter and plan on using O2 bottle in conjunction.. but that difference is so minimal you might as well go hotter and get Acetylene and O2 which gets about 500 degrees hotter. Thinks that is the summary. That and i wish i had seen this before i bought mine.
Isn’t that interesting
👍👍
Another rip off !
Wttttff damn them
That $6 you are pay will save you a lot of time. 130 degree is more than you think.
You can still get Mapp gas !!!!!!!
Where ?
@@frankmontez6853 The store
The main gas in MAPP and MAP pro ,its the same.
Its called propylene.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. I believe the two bottles are basically the same, they just changed the name of their product.
That's not true at all. MAPP is a mixture of methylacetylene (propyne), propadiene and propane. The MAP-Pro is a mixture composed only of propylene and propane. Completely different stuff and not nearly as hot.