MAPP Gas or Propane - Bernzomatic TS8000 Torch Kit
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2019
- Bernzomatic TS8000KC: homedepot.sjv.io/ogRAm
TS8000 (just the tip): homedepot.sjv.io/z5gW6
MAPP Gas or Propane? Which burns hotter? Searching the internet will return all kinds of speculation about the two fuels, still leaving you/us scratching heads. The Home Depot #sponsored sent us the Bernzomatic TS8000 Torch with a can of MAP/Pro fuel. We thought that we'd end the confusion, or some of it, by testing the MAP/Pro and the Propane.
First of all, MAPP gas is not available any longer. The new fuel in the yellow bottle is now called MAP/Pro, which is just Propylene. Word on the streets has always been that MAPP (or MAP/Pro) burns hotter than propane, so you want MAPP gas. We wanted to see for ourselves, and then bring the data to you.
We used our Bernzomatic TS8000 Torch with the MAP/Pro fuel, then we used a Propane tank with an older Bernzomatic broader tip. With a piece of 1/4" thick steel bar stock in the vice, we used each torch for 30 seconds to heat up the steel. Then we used our thermal imager to check the temps. In between torches, we quenched and cooled the steel back to ~85F. After the 30-second round, we did a 60 round as well.
Results:
Propane: 158F (30s) . 254F (60s) . 418F (60s w/TS8000 tip)
MAP/Pro: 257F (30s) . 402F (60s)
Those were pretty big differentials in temperature between the Propane and MAP/Pro, and I knew the geometry of the tips were much different. We then decided to switch the Bernzomatic TS8000 tip to the Propane cylinder and test again. The results were much different, after 60 seconds, the Propane with the TS8000 tip produced 418F. This is "hotter" than the MAP/Pro, but we're going to call this even.
Our conclusion is the tip geometry and efficiency has more to do with the heat than the difference in the fuels (MAP/Pro and Propane). Looking down the throat of the TS8000, you will see a brass swirl ring, and the holes at the bottom of the tip allow much more air/oxygen in to help fuel the flame. The Bernzomatic TS8000 also allows you to ignite the fuel by just pulling the trigger. Let off the trigger and the fuel stops and the flame extinguishes. There's also a continuous flame button that you depress after the flame is ignited. This allows hands-free soldering, brazing, etc.
You can get the TS8000 Torch kit for about $42 from the Home Depot. MAP/Pro fuel cylinders run about $12 each, while the propane only costs about $4 each. 
Авто/Мото
Yes, it's a marketing strategy. It all boils down to the power output of the torch head itself, some people mod their propane torch to deliver more power. Or buy this TS8000/TS4000 and use it on propane tank for no brainer.
Richard Phat The Nguyen so can you use the TS8000 on the blue propane tanks?
Richard Phat The Nguyen nevermind I just watched the video
Thanks for watching.
Dude, thank you so much for demonstrating this. I'm in the market to buy a blowtorch and am researching all my options here in Australia. Your video helped so much in making a decision! I'll opt for the TS8000TK torch for sure!
Thank you for taking the time to test the claims of hotter with MAP/PRO vs Propane with the same torch. Double thanks for posting this! For my home use this is great to know.
Glad we could help.
I love how he starts the video explaining that MAPP isn’t the same thing as map-pro, and then a lot of the comments proceed to totally conflate the two different gases. MAPP was hotter than propane - they don’t make it anymore. Map-pro is also hotter than propane, but not by as much.
You're correct, and a tip will make much more difference than the difference in fuel. You have to get the oxygen in the fuel to make it hotter. Thanks for watching.
130° hotter.
I learned this the hard way. Glad you changed the tip good job. I ran out of Map gas at a service call and couldn’t find any map or oxygen an acetylene it was a Sunday. So bought propane and it worked once I changed tip.
Helpful, thanks
Yeah, the actual burn temp difference between Mapp/Pro and Propane is only ~.2% (that's 1/5 of 1%). The combustion dynamics of the burner (torch unit) is where your performance is.
I appreciate this video and the testing method as well as the quick tutorial- I have the Bernzomatic TS8000 that I have been a little apprehensive to use and been wondering which fuel tank to purchase. I'm just using it to heat up wood pellets in a tube - maybe a little overkill.
Cheryl Carolina that’s a perfect use for the TS8000. Glad you found the vid useful.
I went out and got the TS4000 self-start nozzle with a bottle of MapPro today and it enabled me to finish a brazing job that I was unable to finish with the Propane bottle and standard nozzle. Yay!
Thank you for this review. I bought the Mapp gas torch kit, screwed in the nozzle, turned on the gas, and didn't hear any "SSS" so thought it wasn't working. Then I watched your video and saw you PUSH THE IGNITE BUTTON!!!!! that I realized that was how to make the thing light. DUHHHH!!!! So I went back and did the whole thing all over again, and it worked perfectly. I was using it to burnish the edges of plexiglas (Acrylic) cutouts because I had read that you need Mapp gas rather than propane to get enough heat to do that burnishing. Now I'm wondering if propane would do the job just as well. But I'll use up my mapp canister first. Thanks again! I appreciate your help very much! And it did the burnishing really well.
Glad it worked. MAPP is not MAPP anymore, they haven't produced real MAPP gas in more than 10 years. The propane with this TS8000 torch tip will get just as hot as the MAPP/Pro gas. Thanks for watching.
What the hell are you yelling for
Just to make sure that you can hear him. :) He has a problem, but we're scared to tell him.
It's because he's talking about propane and propane accessories. Channeling Hank Hill.
Randy Murray BECAUSE HES TIM JOHNSON
It's hockey night with propane and map gas - get it?
Because PROPANE!!!
What a great tip on the torches. W world of difference and fast nice solder joints. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
MAP-Pro lasts longer and burns less fuel in the same time period. Try weighing the bottles, do a 2 min burn time, weigh again and see which one burns less fuel.
That's a good point, I wonder if propane is still more cost effective in the end?
Would the flow not be regulated by the tip?
I’m still crying MAPP was discontinued. Pro is better than propane, but MAP/Pro is only half the temp of MAPP. However…a tank I hadn’t had eyes on in 20 years is the real deal…MAPP! I really should clean off my workbench…
Well I think you are going to need more than 2 min to see a noticeable difference just based on how long a propane bottle last me but they should flow the same unless it's some boiling point and pressure difference between the 2 but I couldn't see a big difference but I think he needs to do more testing because I believe the map is hotter but I never buy it because propane is enough for me and much cheaper but it's all going up now
It's near 3x the price and It doesn't last near 3 times as long plus it only burns 130° hotter.
Thanks, that was very helpful in deciding what sort of torch to buy.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you ! Very informative, I would not have guessed that outcome! Will do my own experiments to verify this!!!! AWESOME VIDEO! !
Thank you! MAPP gas is not manufactured any longer, so they're just playing with marketing, making more money on the 'word on the streets' that MAPP gas is hotter.
You do that.
Thank you for changing the tip out. That was the first thing I thought of when the temperature difference was so high.
You bet. Thanks for watching.
Is it safe..¿
@@rubymagadan3351 is the different tip safe for food? Yeah all the metals are inert the only issues would be from the gas. However, using the tip with the higher temperatures you should get a more thorough burn.
Just bought the ts8000 with the map gas included at home depot 30 mins ago. Guess ill be buying the $4 propane bottle instead of the $12 map bottle after this one runs out.
def go with the much cheaper propane and the map torch attachment,,in canada propane is about 8 buck and map like double that,,crazy
@Mike Studmuffin bigger does not mean hotter,,it means more work
Mike Studmuffin, though it's a bigger torch doesn't necessarily mean it will burn hotter or burn fuel faster. The amount of fuel coming out depends how far you open the valve, and it very well could have the same valve, or at least the same output as the older/other ones. The biggest improvement to the TS8000 that make it a hotter, and actually more efficient torch is the turbine blades in the base of the nozzle that mixes the fuel and oxygen much better than previous torches. If one wants to save fuel, it's simple to not fully open the valve. Probably get about as much heat as the previous torch design when the valve is only half open. I built my own torch that's about 16" long. If I close off the air to it, it can burn cooler than either of those torches even though it's about 20x bigger, because it's not getting the right fuel/air mixture to burn like a torch. It's more like a campfire.
@@craigwilson8255 very intresting we very
I bought the same one a few days ago, after about a minute or so of run time the flame turns orange, pretty sure that means incomplete combustion but I’m pretty new to torches, anyone know whatsup?
Thanks for confirming that this does work with the blue propane cylinders!
I have a few of those around the house as well as a whole bunch of the shorty, green "camping" type. (fittings the same).
I have some plumbing stuff to do next week and while the old propane torch is fine for the shutoff valves, I'm not so confident for the much thicker regulator and preventer valves that I need to change on the hydronic heating system.
So I'm off to buy the TS8000 kit tomorrow.
Give that man a beer!
Excelent! yes, it does answer questions: the tip increases the burn efficiency so over time a good tip is worth the money and the time!
Great point!
Finally a comparison review of the TS8000 vs the JT680 Jumbo Torch, thank you!
Thanks for actually measuring the temp
I have been saying this for years.... I'm glad you made this video
It definitely opened our eyes. Torch tip geometry much more important than the gas. Thanks.
Thanks....your video was well done and to the point.. answering several questions I had regarding Mapp vs. propane
Harry C thank you for the reply. So glad it helped you.
Thank you for good and to the point info
Good analysis. Would either get hot enough for blacksmithing 1400°F-2000°F + by itself without a forge if more time was allowed?
Great info! Will the Bernzomatic torch burn inverted?
Very helpful video, thank you. How should these MAP or Propane tanks be stored? I assume leaving them inside the house or in the garage (which can get hot during the summer) is a bad idea. Maybe on the back porch?
They stay inside our shop that routinely gets above 120F. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for that explaining the difference. Especially the difference with the tips
No problem! Thanks for watching.
thanks for this ingenious comparison, it proves "turbo" burners are excellent! I've got Providus+ GA200 recently, which I believe is analog to Benzomatic. I wish I could find purest Butane canisters 7/16, doubt they exist though.
Whole Leah 🐄 this is insane! Whata great time to be alive! Saving up now- rusty bolts waiting on me.
Did you have success? I’m dancing with a good one myself
Thanks for watching.
That clears up a lot of confusion .
Glad we could help. Thanks for watching.
Great job, good info, right to the point no bs.
Very informative....Heading to Home Depot to get the TS8000.
Interesting. Thanks for the info!
Thanks for watching.
I've learned MAPP gas has a place for use. In glasswork, propane is "dirty" and acetylene/oxygen is "very dirty". MAPP gas is "clean" when heating glass and glass doesn't get black like the other two. For other purpose, I plainly use propane in my TS7000 for many years. I didn't see much if any difference dealing with MAPP and propane.
You should have also shown the results of the 8000+propane at 30seconds., That would be more conclusive.
Thanks for watching.
That was useful information... Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
The flame on my torch looks distorted and broad. I wonder if the swirling fins (blades?) have been damaged?
This make sense, since I bought a bottle of map and used my propane torch head which would not get the aluminum hot enough to braze it, thanks for the tip, guess I'm buying one of those damn tips lol
Thanks for watching.
Thanks my man from Chicago
Tnk u. Great experiment i got 3 set of Oxi Acet in my days now i went to HD to get the yellow MAAP tnk n reg torch to do a couple of joints. Tnk you great explain love the Blopper😂😂
The temperature depends greatly on the air fuel mix..
Exactly! That was the conclusion and purpose of the video was to show that the tip, which blends the surrounding air (oxygen) with the fuel (propane/MAPP-pro), is more important than the difference of these two fuels. Thanks for watching.
Loved the review
I have a half dozen torches that I have acquired over the years, I have thought MAPP was the way to go, this old dog learned something new today….thank you.
Mapp doesn't exist anymore
I just bought some Mapp Gas cylinders off Amazon.
@@stephendall2329 you didn't. MAPP does not exist.
Map/pro, Map or whatever other shit and Mapp are different
much needed content!
i was wondering about this. ive burned many bottles of propane through my ts8000 and then i decided to try the map pro gas and i couldn't really tell the difference. i mean ive used a lot of propane but if you whip out an oxy acetylene torch you know the difference in seconds. there is no comparison. that shits way hotter. thanks for confirming my thoughts on whether map was actually hotter or not. i wonder how much difference there was on the old mapp gas that we cant get any more.
Glad to help. If I'm not mistaking, the old true MAPP gas was a couple hundred degrees hotter, but it wasn't double or anything like your oxy/ace torch. Thanks for watching.
130° difference. Some say map pro has better burn characteristics. Not sure how we quantify that though. YMMV
Thanks for this video
No problem. Thank you for watching.
i have extensive experience using both of these map pro and propane bottles with the map torch head. my job everyday involved busting loose corroded and rusted bolts on rack and pinions that have been sitting in cars in the junkyard for who knows how many years and cleaning the insides of them. i can say for a fact that with propane with the same head it either took forever to get those bolts hot enough to be able to get broken loose or they would never got hot enough. with the map pro it would take minutes at most and they could be broken loose easily. it wasn't even a competition and i always fought to get those map pro bottles reserved for my squad so i don't get stuck with the shitty propane ones and spend forever on the work
I guess because you are working outside where ambient influences are greater, so the mapp has the advantage of overcoming it better, especially in cold, humid or windy conditions.
@@ArcanePath360 i work inside a warehouse in an assembly line with a track with conveyor belt rollers between me and my 2nd. Tables to put everything on and work on then put them in a basket and roll them down to the next guy in front. Always pretty much the same temp. A bernzomatic ts800 head on both bottles and time to heat and lossen is significant difference. Even on some t25 bolts. Also im using a weak bullshit bosch impact wrench lol. Specifically shoecsps on the racks are always tough to get out and they need as much heat as you can dump into them then use a ratchet to remove them so they dont strip the top of it where the socket goes on
Thanks - great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks
Many thanks.
You are welcome! Thanks for watching.
I wish you would have said if the tank is refillable and if so how too.
Which one is the best melting gold or silver
Will the ts8000 heat up an exhaust bolt til it turns redish?
They both have their applications. I use the propane when repairing copper lines in wood frame walls, the advantage is u can turn it down an it beats dealing with my B tank. But if the repair is open I use MAPP with turbo, much faster on 3/4 and DWV.
MAPP is no different. It's not what it used to be. Propane with the same torch will be just as hot. Thanks for watching and for commenting.
@@Shoptoolreviews, I understand what you're saying as a comparison. As a plumber, Mapp is about 100 to 150° hotter depending on your setup, that may seem insignificant, but it shows up when you use a turbo torch. With a propane setup, you have the advantage of turning it down without the risk of burning out the tip as you would with turning down a turbo torch. A good example, every 3 or 4 years I have to repair a leaded joint on cast DWV. With a propane torch, I can turn it down to a low flame, acid the repair use 50/50 then wipe it down and I can control the repair. You can run propane on a turbo torch with the same results as using MAPP. But over the years and burning out a few of my victors I learned, carry both
Brazing aluminum requires 720 degrees, will propane reach that temperature with the upgraded tip?
Love the MAPP gas in my Plasma Gun ,nice green plasma ball !!
Thanks for watching.
I just made one yesterday! I didn't know there was different map/Mapp gasses and was disappointed my plasma ball was blue. The new type gives you blue fireballs
Excuse me, I have a problem with a TS8000 nozzle that the gas is leaking through a hole at the bottom of the nozzle.
Great video thank you.
Glad it helped. Thanks for watching.
I will use this knowledge and save money what a video
Thanks for watching. Glad we could help.
I just got 2 old 16 oz. bottles of methyl acetylene propadiene stabilized
and was wondering if my propane torch head will work with them
and if not, why? Thanks.
I'll leave that final liability decision in your hands. I would think it should be fine, those MAP tanks were made for these DIY style torch heads.
@@Shoptoolreviews Thanks.
GREAT INFORMATION GREAT VIDEO THANKS
Glad it was helpful! Thanks so much for watching and for the comment.
OH MY GOD THATS AN AGRESSIVE INTRO WITH YOUR SPEAKERS ACCIDENTALLY TURNED UP.
Sorry about that. Note taken. Thanks for watching.
@@Shoptoolreviews I'm just bugging you. I enjoyed the video and want that torch tip. Just unsure if it's worth it.
Done a fair bit of heat shrinking in the cold and it seems that MAPP works better than propane in cold weather (--25°C/-13°F). Pretty anecdotal, cant say for sure that i always used the same torch or that i tried a new bottle of propane, but for some reason I just felt the MAPP worked better in the winter time. For bigger heat shrinks I always used bigger (11kg) propane bottles though, but they were mostly kept in a slightly worm van. In the summer time, the smaller propane bottles worked just as well as MAPP.. :)
Aleksander Mietinen MAPP not the same map- pro , he explained that in the video. They don’t make MAPP anymore.
Thanks for watching.
So this would work with the better tip for heat shrinking for auto body?
@@robertthompson5908he meant Map Pro gas. We all know MAPP gas was near twice the heat as propane. This new Map gas is only 130° hotter but they say it does burn better. FWIW.
good Info Thanks.
How many seconds of ininterrupted use lasts the mapp pro gas container in the video?
I'm really not sure. We didn't perform a run-time test on the fuel cell.
What tip is that on the blue propane torch ?
Witch ones better for my dab rig quarts nails or glass nail no titanium
Thanks for watching.
I pop a hole in aluminum block (oil)can I use map gas with duraflex
No, not a good choice for this.
Well done!👍👍
Which would be better for heating up a stuck nut to get off?
Does it even matter?
Doesn’t matter
My TS8000 tip end glows red about 1/2 down with map pro gas . I didn't time it but every time I have used it, fairly quickly. Should I be concerned about that?
That does sound a little odd, especially if it doesn't happen with Propane. You may want to check another tip and see if it does the same. Thanks for watching.
@@Shoptoolreviews just tried blue propane 1st time. It did not do it. then tried the map gas it did not do it. so I have to keep an eye on it . might take longer thanks for the reply.
I just want to make battery cables. Should I use propane??
Either would be fine for solder. Propane is definitely cheaper.
Nice Job!
Propane is fine. Never have a problem with it. Mapp does come in handy when you're soldering 28mm outside when it's windy though.
Good video. I use a knockoff of the TS8000 with butane, which, in the UK, is over 5 times cheaper than propane. The burning temperatures of propane and butane in air are about 20 C apart and both close to 2,000 C if I remember correctly. The only disadvantage of butane is it freezes at about 0 C (as opposed to a freezing temperature of about -40 C for propane).
Thanks for replying. I guess it depends on the region you are in as to which fuel is most common. It was interesting to prove that the torch tip and air/oxygen makes the most difference.
@@Shoptoolreviews Most people here use propane and they think they're being clever because they're saving a few pence over that MAPP substitute. I found a Chinese adapter for butane on eBay and that's saving me over 80% of fuel costs.
You need this
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Propane-Refill-Adapter-Gas-Cylinder-Tank-Coupler-Heater-Camping-Fishing-BBQ/362809619851?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
attached to this
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Camping-Stove-Butane-Gas-Adapter-Metal-Convert-Fuel-Gas-For-Long-Tank/114305867679?hash=item1a9d291f9f:g:rnMAAOSwphFe6E8J
Butane also doesn't ignite above 2000 meters altitude, which the UK doesn't have anywhere. Most of the camping gear in the US runs on propane for that reason. Further, the condensation temp you incorrectly refer to as freezing temp. If they are fully liquid they lack vapor pressure and will not free ignite and the stove fuel lines will have no pressure in them. As the fuel is used, the expansion takes heat from the can and you can run out of vapor pressure quickly. You can turn the containers upside down to get them to push liquid butane or liquid propane out by gravity and the expansion happens outside the can so you can burn propane down to -40 (same in C and F) and not be concerned about can chilling. That lets you ignite the liquid. Knowing high altitude and low temps are an issue in the mountains, some camp stoves are made to run on liquid fuel with a generator loop that goes into the flame. Once the generator loop is primed (heated), the stove will run on a liquid feed gasified by the vapor generator loop. These stoves are often multifuel and can run on unleaded petrol, kerosene, or diesel fuel. I modified mine to also run on liquid alcohol by adding a variable air choke.
Propane is also available in bulk for grills and RVs, so the price is about $2.50 a US gallon or about seventy cents per liter.
I wonder how good Map Pro gas is at bluing titanium. I have a full titanium exhaust I'm looking to blue.
if you need help pm me or what ever
Good question! Thanks for watching.
Exactly!! That’s why I use a turbo torch set up with propane and it works fine & the propane is much cheaper!
You got it!! Exactly right. Thanks for watching.
It all depends on what heat delivery you need. I carry two small torches like these in my tractor trailer. If you need a large area heated the new 8,000 does a great job ( like straightening 1/4 thick length of 2x2 angle iron mudflap bracket). If I need concentrated heat ( like a 15 year old sprayed in salt landing gear bolt) and I need it yellow hot, not just red hot my old trusty 14613 super torch concentrates the heat like the new swirl head can never do.
That was very interesting
excellent,,,thanks
You are welcome! Thanks for watching.
The ability to use the torch inverted is the biggest difference in the two gases, but the better torch in the pro series torch kit is a big plus even if you continue to just burn propane.
Tim, I don't care if you are yelling or not. You made a fine video here! I just turned it down a little.
how long does the can last? assumed that you let it open until it dies? 4-6h?
I just bought mine brand new and it ran out in no more than 6 minutes. Either that or it stopped working. I have been trying to find this same answer because i feel like it should last much longer.
@@kristopherbuchanan974 it definitely last much much longer, ive been using one for more than half a year here and there.
@@TheCyberCorn thanks! I definitely felt it should have. I have a feeling i was sold a near empty bottle from the store.
Thanks for watching.
He reminds me of that yelling groundhog meme 🤣
Thanks for watching.
interesting findings but yeah the map is slightly hotter than propane but at double the cost and not much diff on the work being done id go with the porpane and hook it with a map torch head ,,but these are mostly for soldering as the filler rods being used are most likely to melt under 840deg F ,if you got oxy fuel than you can braze or weld but you cant weld with propane only acyteline unless they come up with a special gas one day ,that would be neat
Thanks for watching.
I have several 14.1oz tanks oxygen, mapp Gas and mapp pro they come from county waste management but I have a few red tanks with no labels but the threading is to the right and not left like oxygen. Also slightly smells like propane unless it’s a propane mixture?? Acetylene maybe. And I have 2 original mapp tanks methylacetylene propadiene stabilized
Will it go up to 700° for the aluminum
You can braze aluminum rod with it, but it takes a while. Thanks for watching.
why wouldn't you be able to use the propane torch on the MAP??
OTHER THAN THE SHOUTING good information!
It's the norm around here. :)
Is it really that big of a deal?
That’s how I talk as well...just lower your volume :)
By “your” I mean not shop tool guy :)
Guys can i use acetylene/oxygen to achieved titanium color by torching? Planning to make a titanium tip on my cars exhaust pipe
seems probabaal i could assist please let me no
Thanks for watching.
Looked like the map torch was touching closer to the metal.
It's all about "tip geometry" if you plan to lay pipe... Some like bulbous tips, some like mustroom headed tips, some like pointy anteater tips, some like large tips, small tips, flat tips, round tips, fat tips, thin tips... all different shapes and sizes of "tip geometry". But the most important thing to remember is "shielded tips"! ALWAYS use "shielded tips"!... Or you can get an STD.
You sound like a safety-first kinda person.
Oh shit all the health and safety youtube inspectors are already storming the comment section
what happens if u put propane head on mapp gas? will it still work or no? basically is it dangerous?
It works just fine, but not as hot. Thanks for watching.
Wel if you watched the video at the very beginning he says that the propane head can’t be attached to the mapp tank.
Great video thank you for sharing this!!!
I’ve had several of the 8000 series and without fail after using them a few times and with all of them the igniter will eventually stop igniting the gas even though I hear it clicking. So I go buy a new one and return the old one and with a vengeance I’ll continue this until they make them last.
Good reason.
Thanks for watching.
Very good video , 👍🏼
Thank you 👍 and Thanks for watching and for commenting.
How much of the difference is the gas, how much of the difference is the torch????
Ok great, your excellent video answers this question.
Thanks for saving me money sir!
Happy to help! Thanks for watching.
if you read the fine print do you still save
And I heard that you can use the mapp gas with that tip upside down
Can I do this same experiment with oxygen mix..
I'm not sure how you would mix in oxygen. Thanks for watching.