Enjoyed watching this. In 1970 I commenced work as a refrigeration engineer and stayed in the industry for 14 years. Left and went on to other things. Have not brazed a joint since 1984! It hasn’t changed a bit in all that time. That was in the days before even mobile phones. Electronic instruments and controls were just being seen in the industry for the first time as I was leaving. From speaking to friends still in the industry and now at the end of their careers biggest changes seem to be the types of refrigerants (almost exclusively R12, 22 and 502 in those days), electronic and computerised controls and scroll compressors. Pleased I got out of the industry mind. Sometimes nostalgia kicks in but for the most part pleased with the choices I made. Thank you for the video.
@@TheBlank1Ne well I could see then that i might struggle physically with the demands of the work when I got older. I left the industry at 28 years of age and I was looking at men in their 50’s struggling to do the work. So I got out, studied at University and changed career to law. I am still working full time now and I am 67 entirely from home. Planning to retire next year but from choice, not because I can’t cope with the work. For me it was definitely a good choice to make. So I was coping no problem as a 28 year old but could see that would change as I got older.
The same people who think the dull cherry red is too hot are the same people who’s braze rod sticks to the pipe when they try to fill the joint and dosent flow. The pipe must be hot enough to cause capillary action and that is usually at the temperature of cherry red
You are absolutely correct and he is on the right path if I had anything to say it would be to apply the flame to both pipe and fitting at the same time and faster to avoid oxidation the torch tip should be closer at the blue part of the flame to get to temperature
Wow 🤩 there’s too many PRO commenting, but no body got the BALLS 🏀 to do a video. Great job folks. Let’s a praise the algorithm for bringing us all together again
I work well outside the scope of welding in commercial roofing. It's a healthy endeavor to at least have a curiousity to what some of our brothers and sisters in other trades do in contribution to our projects. Thank you for sharing knowledge.
This is brazing buddy not welding, there's a huge difference between the two. But, more power to you for being a roofer, one of the most underpaid and dangerous jobs to ever have! 💪🏼
@ASAPJermz it's not that far off from welding. My old man taught me how to weld using an acelatine torch and coat hanger. The main difference is temperature and you're not melting the main metals.
The key to brazing in refrigeration is to get the joint hot quickly ( not red hot ) and fill it quickly. If you were to get a service valve, reversing valve, or TXV this hot, it would be ruined.
Agreed. There are a few options out there but I'm weary about some of them. The "cool gel" type products tend to work pretty well. I usually try to wrap a wet rag around the sensitive components. But brazing the suction line into an air handler is always a little scary for me because it's so close to everything else. Oxygen Acetylene works great to heat up quickly, but I rather use Acetylene. Just figuring out how to protect the components can get tricky.
Brazing rod melt at 1200+ degrees… That’s glowing red temps. Soldering is done at much lower temps, there are good HVAC solders available nowadays. Just got to be carful not to flux it like a plumber would.
I've learned not to be cheap on the heat. Lots of heat will make sure there's no unfilled voids, and the heat will have less time to spread. I wrap sensitive components with wet rags and place sheet metal for shielding things close by that may get accidentally burned.
I am learning everthing on RUclips And for refrigration I will agree to heat fast ,soon as the rod start melting you want to get it done ,because if you build too much oxidation from inside it will clog the filter dryer or it can damage the compressor
I like your video, nice production. I just have a few notes. First, there was no mention of any nitrogen. Nitrogen is necessary to prevent the oxidation of the copper during the brazing process. The particles left behind, especially on very sensitive newer equipment can eventually lead to an obstruction like oil pooling in condenser coil or blocked TXV or piston. Second, prepping the copper correctly helps ensure a proper weld (add a bit more info for the beginners). Third, I liked the way you ensured a solid weld around the piping. I did notice that you had you stick bent allowing for about 1" of rod. Example, allow 2-4" of round off your coupling. Use the rule of thumb, if your nail can get caught on the joint, round it off more rod. Lastly, always heat the copper at the fitting not the pie going into fitting, this really helps. Especially with vertical braze joints. Good video, we all are learning each day!
heating the fitting is BS. the fitting will glow red hot Way before the pipe. in vertical situation you can add a little heat to the fitting so it soaks up better. everything else is good/usable information.
@@alanraza2570Well, It's just nitrogen gas from a gas cylinder that says "nitrogen". Just find a way of having a small but steady stream of it through the pipe when brazing. It's purpose is to keep oxygen away from inside the tubes.
Wow there’s too many PRO commenting, but no body got the BALLS to do a video. Great job folks. Let’s a praise the algorithm for bringing us all together again
Try moving your heat off of the pipe and towards the bottom of the cup. You should be filling that cup, then draw the flame back and cap the joint so you can not see the lip.
I thought the same thing.... in parts of Denver you will find 40+ year old brazing of 2" copper that is mind blowingly perfect. Some inspectors don't even know what they are looking at... thinking it was factory ordered !!!!!!
@@thomasyunick3726 First off he didn't have enough heat, should have been using oxy/acet torch. Then he said he was going to "fill the gap" capillary action doesn't have "gaps". My brazing certificate was with 2 1/8" type L copper using 15% sil-fos and flux, I was able to achieve 98-99% coverage on vertical, horizontal and angled tube. This looks like he was buttering a piece of bread..
@@josephsangregory6436 My favorite was always flaring. ( so easy ) 1" soft copper... 2 wrenches, cutter, flare tool, hammer, fitting. I spend a lot of time in deep trenches. I brazed for a little while but mostly helped a certain friend here or there. that also plumbed submarines for decades. I have tagged along on many many repairs. A lot of 2' pipe. I have definitely made a few pipes connect more than once. I do stop and waste and backflow connections for irrigation.
never apply flux on your fitting only the pipe, you dont want to push in the flux and damage the inside of the pipe and corrode it because flux is a acid.
Thanks. My first braze worked out great after viewing your tutorial. Previously I was not preparing the surfaces correctly and the pipes were not hot enough. I really had to heat them longer than expected using MAP gas.
Dammit, I am seeing your comment one year later and wonder if your equipment lasted this long if you followed this idiots directions. Never got your pipe cherry red unless you don’t like the people your doing the work for.
I always leave a link in all my videos descriptions for the items used in my videos. I will leave you a link below for the torch. Thanks for watching! TurboTorch Kit X-4B (A/C & Refrigeration kit) amzn.to/3b1QZ2R
I am from India and I completed my engineering recently. I am preparing for the entrance exam for my masters. Today I studied the topic of Brazing. Thanks for this video.
I do commercial refrigeration for a living and have run 2 5/8 pipe through an entire building for a grocery store. Your prep work is perfect. But Red hot is way too hot for a small pipe like that. I am saying this respectfully as I just want to help u. your welds did not get enough penetration into the cup of the 90 and they would crack and leak in the field and you did not put a shoulder on the rim of the cup. You should start by heating up the pipe that is going into the cup of the 90 (this will help the rod start to melt when it is time to add it) then work your way onto the cup of the 90, now u can start adding the rod onto the rim of the cup of the 90. Now move the flame from the rim towards the center of the 90 and watch the brazing rod rush deep into the entire cup. Now do this all the way around the cup of the 90. Then pull your torch back and add a “shoulder” to it meaning. Pull the heat back to where it is just barely melting the rod and adds barrier of rod where the rim of the 90 and the pipe is. This is an insurance policy for leaks.
Just started in the industry and there is so much I don’t know. My 2 attempts so far I melted the pipe. Thanks for the tips. Hopefully I’ll catch on sooner rather than later.
Does this take longer to do than plumbing soldering because of the type of materials that need to be heated up? It seems almost identical to sweating pipes but i believe that solder is softer and easier to melt etc...?
When cleaning the burr the copper line must be tilted down so the burr doesn't get inside the tube. The tiniest amount will become a restriction. When brazing you should purge with nitrogen otherwise the scale produced inside the tube will mix it today's refrigerant oils causing restriction and or attach the compressor winding's..It should also be mentioned to use minimum 5% silver upwards to 15% silver content solder when welding air conditioning and refrigeration copper ..
OB Wan, you have a pretty good understanding, and you have a descent description (that you give here within). I would agree that 5% to 15% silver content brazing rod [not solder(ing)] and it is not welding (it's brazing).
One small critique if I may. If you hold the inner flame on the joint it will heat much more efficiently and move the flame in toward the fitting as the filler follows the heat. You don’t need so much on the pipe. Also, that long under the torch seems to weaken the fitting to a degree that it easily collapses at the slightest torque
The reason the fitting collapses is because heating it cherry red and allowing it to cool annuals the metal and makes it soft. If you heat it and then hit it with a cold rag quickly, it will harden again. This is tricky as a guy in the field probably isn't controlling the temperature that accurately and quenching improperly can create cracks and internal stresses.
Im not really an expert, but I agree. The heat draws the solder or braze in. Some of what happened here just layed more filler on yop, improving the look, but didn't likely travel in to where it counts. The idea is to work the torch to evenly heat the assembly and 123 add braze so it runs in. In some ways you only have one shot to really nail it perfect. Will still hold, but you'll have added twice the filler. Most will just be laying on top.
I see some comments and if y’all are so good at brazing.... why are y’all watching a “how to” on brazing? I understand commenting to offer advice or how you would’ve done something different, but commenting to bash and make fun, why are you here to begin with? Show us your brazing, yeah? I’m by no means good at brazing, my tail woulda used half a rod on one joint 🤣 but that’s why I’m here... to learn
I do not like to bash, but the reason that I comment is to help. This is not a good video and people are being fed bad information as well as being shown the wrong execution of brazing techniques.
Nicely made video dude, just a couple things to improve on in my opinion. Cherry red tends to be too hot for a quality joint, as you run the risk of porous braze joints. Preheat your female fitting to a dull red, and start to feed the brazing alloy in using the heat of the copper to melt the alloy. Flux is a must on dissimilar metal joints, and I suggest using 15% silver alloy for copper to copper. 45% for copper to brass etc. plus flux.
I used to love brazing, its a strong and very satisfying welding procedure that once mastered you can keep perfecting. Haven't done it at all for many years.
I have a question every brazing kit I see uses oxygen with mapp , which is better acetylene only or using oxygen and MAPP, I have never braised plenty a soldering, but never braised
Good tutorial. I've been in HVACR many years and never used acetylene without oxygen so I can't opinion on whether is better but it appears that the pipe is a little bit hotter than it needs to be. Okay for pipe to pipe connections but maybe too long and too hot for heat sensitive connections like reversing valves, TXV's, service valves etc. even though a heat block paste or damp rag is implemented. I use 15% brazing rod and I find it flows much better than 5% at a lower heat. I did learn that I don't clean my copper as well as I should. Lol...
Do I understand correctly that you use acetylene due to higher hit density? I.e. to hit the joint quicker as as little heat as possible dissipating into the length of the pipe?
air-acetylene is common in hvac in the us because it means you only have to haul 1 tank up the ladder to the roof, but it's not great for everything. i used to service small appliances like air conditioners, refrigerators and dehumidifiers where the tubing is very small, the working clearances are very tight and many times the units are made of plastic that you can't easily shield from heat. in those cases a small oxyacetylene setup with small tips and special tips like the uniweld cap'n-hook work much better because you can braze the joint very quickly without setting things on fire or melting them.
I like to carry around about a 12"x12" piece of 26ga sheet metal for tight spaces or plastic units. If you leave a burn mark through the sheet metal then you left the flame in 1 position for waaaay too long.
2/21/2021 For a Person that wants to teach others you need to learn your self. First your torch is way to hot. You use to much solder. Second you heat the elbow then the pipe that into the elbow. Third heat on the elbow causes suction. The suction pulled the solder into the elbow. Fourth you use only the amount Solder that is needed. If you have the pipe and Elbow glowing CHERRY red the solder won't stay in the elbow. When you add heat to a glowing red Copper Pipe the solder will fall out. Add Solder to the opposite side of the copper pipe always from the heat. The elbow and pipe is hot enough, with pipe soaked from all the heat the solder will melt. Fifth if soldering be sure to Clean and de-bur the Copper ends or joints to be welded. Sand the joints with sand Paper. If brazing Copper to Copper using solder use a Acid Pipe Cleaner for Soldering. If you are brazing Copper to Copper with seal-flos 15 percent Silver Solder sand each joint of that pipe and wipe clean each end and Joint before welding. Never use any cleaner acid if welding Seal-flos. Flow 5 to 10 cubing feet of Nitrogen through the copper to stop copper sulfate (ash) building up inside the Copper Lines if used on HVAC. The Ash in the HVAC will plug the Pump and Valves on the HVAC Units. Never Braze Copper to Copper with Seal-flos without flowing Nitrogen into the lines being welded. Clean your joints after welding with a damp rag. Pressurize all you joints for leaks.
I see why so many disliked. 1. You dont have to heat till cherry red. 2. Remove the flame when you apply. 3. Heat from the backside when testing if yhe heat is good. 4. Let the braze do the work. It will be a cleaner finish. It looks like you burnt toast. It should be shinny and clean
They are called brazing rods. They come in different percentages and that percentage is the silver content in them. Higher the percentage, higher silver content and strength. Typically the standard is 5-15% for a solid connection from copper to copper. Make a clean cut, sand it down and braze👍 Thanks for watching!
Hi! I brazed pipes 2 years back (compressor of my fiesge gave up so I replaced it myself). I noticed the joint/seal is showing signs of giving up... Is it safe to pump the gas out of the compressor and redo the soldering? Thanks!
Tried to use a brazing rod for the first time but the Butane Propane mixed gas is not getting the copper pipe Cherry red, from what I’ve seen online the gas will reach 1300° C and the brazing rod melts at 710° C, so have no idea what is going on. Any ideas would be great, The only thing I think I can put it down to is the touch head as it has no adjustment for the flame 🔥
How you doing can you make a video where a copper tube is cracked millimetres from the compressor shell where its leaking oil and needs to be filled with the special welding rod...and what material to use..thnks
After braze if want braze again what should i do 1st. Becoz after every time i brazing when ever i tried to braze again its not easy task for me. Should i use flux after 1st attempt
Good video, but if you cut that joint in half, you will find flakes of contaminants on it from exposure to the air - bad news for orifices. An inert gas in the pipe while brazing will prevent the contamination by shielding it from the air.
So I am able to use the benzomatic torch you get at Home Depot? I'm doing my own ac repair and would rather not buy that expensive torch if I can avoid it.
Why exactly is flux bad for refrigeration? Just curious. I see it used when bonding unlike metals such as brass/copper. I agree with the nitrogen but this is just one method and the method used most. Let's get real, the guys in the field wont lug a nitro tank with them along with their B tanks all the time. Thanks for watching!
@@JumpermanTech if you was a hvac tech and told me you wouldnt carry nitrogen with your torches to install my refrigeration lines id send you packing thats what causes all kinds of burnouts and txv problems
In the industry we use a Oxy/acetylene kit, the only place we use a B tank with turbo torch is on open lineset mostly in commercial refrigeration. Also use a silfos alloy and not some cheap silver. Don't heat the cupling first, always the pipe first so the silfos stick to the pipe then heat the fitting to penetrate. Flux is used when you use different metal and also when reusing old piping.
Could I braze the vertical pipe first? then after that I rotate the pipe 90 degrees, and make the horizontal one to vertical, then braze it? because I think when braze the vertical one, the melt metal will go down into the gap between the pipes it will make the join much stronger. Thank you for sharing!
Thank you! All my videos I leave a link for the products used in the description. I will send you a link below for the torch kit🙃 Thanks for watching & stay tuned for new videos every week! TurboTorch Kit X-4B (A/C & Refrigeration kit) amzn.to/3b1QZ2R
Sir mene naya AC liya he isame Indore me upar vali koyal bara bar thandi ho rahi he lekin niche vali koyal bahot der bad thodi hi thabdi ho rahi he is liye cooling kam milati he to please koi upay batavo delere koi javab nahi deta he please koi upay batavo
To all the pros here, I am a beginner in brazing. I have been wonder what will happen to the brazing joint after a certain of time exposed to the environment? I used a copper-based brazing alloy as the filler metal to join two pieces of carbon steel plate. What is the possible failure that may occur on the brazed plate?
It gets tricky binding ferrous and non ferrous metals. Just make sure everything is CLEAN PRIOR TO BRAZE. A bit more info on the actual rod used could provide a better answer to your question.
If no-brazing fitting which can be used for connecting service valve is released, do you have a intention of purchasing them? how much is proper to purchase.
Your penetration is ok but Definitely Need to get your heat control down and a thicker Bead but at the end of the day as long as it doesn’t leak you’re good!
Cool video and i think your good intention were good of showing how to braze and I give you a credit as well as pointing some stuff that was wrong. With time you'll will perfect your brazing skills. But don't use short radious 90's for refrigeration just saying.
I've done this a few times on ac lines. Have the burn scars to prove it 🙂 I f I d it very stressful but the more I do it the more relaxed I feel. Is there any limit to how many times you can go back and touch up the joint. What if the joint has already cooled down.
Right my problem is I'm heading the pipe with the burner but the pipe just won't get to a point where it golws. I can melt the brazing rode but it just won't connect to the copper pipe. Can I just add that the copper pipe I have have a silver shell for some reason. Its the shower pipes
For water lines you only need to solder, not braze. If it's not getting hot enough there could be water near the joint. Believe it or not put a chunk of bread (no crust), gently push further into the pipe. It will absorb the water and create a dam to keep your joint dry. The bread will dissolve and get blown out by water pressure when you are finished. Even a little water near the joint will prevent proper heating.
My friend is HVAC. He is adamant that you do not need flux and he uses silver rods to braze 35mm pipe that they form their own sockets on. The rods contain phosphor which acts as a flux within the rod. Is this correct? Without the phosphor the joint would not work. Is this true?
I'm actually recording a video as well speak on how to do that except I will be soldering. You can apply the same principals shown in that video for brazing in a tight space. It will be released most likely tomorrow. Subscribe for more tips/tricks and stay tuned for new videos every week!
Long radius 90's are preferred in HVAC....Air conditioning rated fittings are a must....Nitrogen is over rated but to be a pro must be used these days to avoid ridicule.....First you heat the pipe....Then you heat the joint and it sucks it right in.....works every time.
I could have been in and out of there in 1/4 of the time. Your torch was whistling like the tip had something in it. I’ve used both air acetylene and ox acetylene I prefer the latter. You should have been able to get the joint up to temperature much quicker. Other than that I thought it was better than a lot of the brazing videos I’ve seen
if youre having a hard time with moving around the joint on job sites i suggest getting a twin tip for your torches. it helps get a nice even amount of heat around the whole pipe , and can get the flame in hard to reach areas.
Making a small heat reflector out of some sheet metal clamped in a vise grip can be used to concentrate the heat on a joint that does not allow 360 deg access. Placing the reflector behind the joint keeps the blind side hot and prevents heating the surrounding wall. (Fire = bad)
Why can you not use normal solder for refrigeration connections , it seems to work perfectly ok for plumbing and heating , I am just curious to know the answer......👍
yensabi Solder used for soldering water pipe is lower melting point which can’t hold up to the high pressures of refrigerant and vibration at the equipment. Higher silver content. Brazing is a much higher melting point and stronger bond.
Brazing is stronger to deal with the higher pressures in refrigeration. R-410a on a hot day and a plugged condenser will get you 600psi real quick and you'll never see that in plumbing.
Enjoyed watching this. In 1970 I commenced work as a refrigeration engineer and stayed in the industry for 14 years. Left and went on to other things. Have not brazed a joint since 1984! It hasn’t changed a bit in all that time. That was in the days before even mobile phones. Electronic instruments and controls were just being seen in the industry for the first time as I was leaving. From speaking to friends still in the industry and now at the end of their careers biggest changes seem to be the types of refrigerants (almost exclusively R12, 22 and 502 in those days), electronic and computerised controls and scroll compressors. Pleased I got out of the industry mind. Sometimes nostalgia kicks in but for the most part pleased with the choices I made. Thank you for the video.
What did you leave for? I'm interested.
@@TheBlank1Ne well I could see then that i might struggle physically with the demands of the work when I got older. I left the industry at 28 years of age and I was looking at men in their 50’s struggling to do the work. So I got out, studied at University and changed career to law. I am still working full time now and I am 67 entirely from home. Planning to retire next year but from choice, not because I can’t cope with the work. For me it was definitely a good choice to make. So I was coping no problem as a 28 year old but could see that would change as I got older.
Hey! I have questions to you because i'm studying refrigerant engineer if you don't mind of course
The same people who think the dull cherry red is too hot are the same people who’s braze rod sticks to the pipe when they try to fill the joint and dosent flow. The pipe must be hot enough to cause capillary action and that is usually at the temperature of cherry red
You are absolutely correct and he is on the right path if I had anything to say it would be to apply the flame to both pipe and fitting at the same time and faster to avoid oxidation the torch tip should be closer at the blue part of the flame to get to temperature
Yup you are right. These same people do not know about "liquidus temperature" and capillary action.
Wow 🤩 there’s too many PRO commenting, but no body got the BALLS 🏀 to do a video. Great job folks. Let’s a praise the algorithm for bringing us all together again
I'll post one tomorrow when Im on the roof of the building we're working on now
@@dreadsdontmakemehrasta lying ngga
I work well outside the scope of welding in commercial roofing. It's a healthy endeavor to at least have a curiousity to what some of our brothers and sisters in other trades do in contribution to our projects. Thank you for sharing knowledge.
This is brazing buddy not welding, there's a huge difference between the two. But, more power to you for being a roofer, one of the most underpaid and dangerous jobs to ever have! 💪🏼
I'm with you, I'm an insulator and work with fitters and plumbers all day. Knowledge is power.
@ASAPJermz it's not that far off from welding. My old man taught me how to weld using an acelatine torch and coat hanger. The main difference is temperature and you're not melting the main metals.
The key to brazing in refrigeration is to get the joint hot quickly ( not red hot ) and fill it quickly. If you were to get a service valve, reversing valve, or TXV this hot, it would be ruined.
Agreed. There are a few options out there but I'm weary about some of them. The "cool gel" type products tend to work pretty well. I usually try to wrap a wet rag around the sensitive components. But brazing the suction line into an air handler is always a little scary for me because it's so close to everything else. Oxygen Acetylene works great to heat up quickly, but I rather use Acetylene. Just figuring out how to protect the components can get tricky.
Brazing rod melt at 1200+ degrees… That’s glowing red temps. Soldering is done at much lower temps, there are good HVAC solders available nowadays. Just got to be carful not to flux it like a plumber would.
I always used oxygen with acetylene. Maybe he’s taking so long because he’s only using acetylene.
I've learned not to be cheap on the heat. Lots of heat will make sure there's no unfilled voids, and the heat will have less time to spread. I wrap sensitive components with wet rags and place sheet metal for shielding things close by that may get accidentally burned.
I am learning everthing on RUclips
And for refrigration I will agree to heat fast ,soon as the rod start melting you want to get it done ,because if you build too much oxidation from inside it will clog the filter dryer or it can damage the compressor
I like your video, nice production. I just have a few notes. First, there was no mention of any nitrogen. Nitrogen is necessary to prevent the oxidation of the copper during the brazing process. The particles left behind, especially on very sensitive newer equipment can eventually lead to an obstruction like oil pooling in condenser coil or blocked TXV or piston. Second, prepping the copper correctly helps ensure a proper weld (add a bit more info for the beginners).
Third, I liked the way you ensured a solid weld around the piping. I did notice that you had you stick bent allowing for about 1" of rod. Example, allow 2-4" of round off your coupling. Use the rule of thumb, if your nail can get caught on the joint, round it off more rod. Lastly, always heat the copper at the fitting not the pie going into fitting, this really helps. Especially with vertical braze joints. Good video, we all are learning each day!
This guy knows what he's talking about. Can confirm
heating the fitting is BS. the fitting will glow red hot Way before the pipe. in vertical situation you can add a little heat to the fitting so it soaks up better.
everything else is good/usable information.
@@casemodder89 I should have stated to start heating at the fitting. Nice catch!
Nitrogen to prevent oxidation? Can you elaborate please? What is the product you use for that?
@@alanraza2570Well, It's just nitrogen gas from a gas cylinder that says "nitrogen". Just find a way of having a small but steady stream of it through the pipe when brazing. It's purpose is to keep oxygen away from inside the tubes.
Wow there’s too many PRO commenting, but no body got the BALLS to do a video. Great job folks. Let’s a praise the algorithm for bringing us all together again
Not everybody has the free time to make a video on something so simple
Try moving your heat off of the pipe and towards the bottom of the cup. You should be filling that cup, then draw the flame back and cap the joint so you can not see the lip.
gold！
Yup! Bad shoulder. He ain’t “brazing like a pro”
You mean the bell not cup
He definitely means cup aka fitting lingo is lingo but a perfect braze and a good braze are 2 different things and this ant it
With that size pipe I would have capped the joint but this is definitely the best how to video I’ve seen yet
So, would you say slow air cooling after brazing??? is better
I've been doing this for 40 years as a contractor in the HVAC/R industry and I would fire you on the spot :)
I thought the same thing.... in parts of Denver you will find 40+ year old brazing of 2" copper that is mind blowingly perfect. Some inspectors don't even know what they are looking at... thinking it was factory ordered !!!!!!
@@thomasyunick3726 First off he didn't have enough heat, should have been using oxy/acet torch. Then he said he was going to "fill the gap" capillary action doesn't have "gaps". My brazing certificate was with 2 1/8" type L copper using 15% sil-fos and flux, I was able to achieve 98-99% coverage on vertical, horizontal and angled tube. This looks like he was buttering a piece of bread..
@@josephsangregory6436 My favorite was always flaring. ( so easy ) 1" soft copper... 2 wrenches, cutter, flare tool, hammer, fitting. I spend a lot of time in deep trenches. I brazed for a little while but mostly helped a certain friend here or there. that also plumbed submarines for decades. I have tagged along on many many repairs. A lot of 2' pipe. I have definitely made a few pipes connect more than once. I do stop and waste and backflow connections for irrigation.
no drifting with nitro? leaves a-lot of suet inside the pipe and can clog your metering device.
Amana says not to use flux when brazing. The flux mixes with the refrigerant oil and forms an acid that compromises TXV and compressor.
For dissimilar metals only-do.your research.
never apply flux on your fitting only the pipe, you dont want to push in the flux and damage the inside of the pipe and corrode it because flux is a acid.
Thanks. My first braze worked out great after viewing your tutorial. Previously I was not preparing the surfaces correctly and the pipes were not hot enough. I really had to heat them longer than expected using MAP gas.
Dammit, I am seeing your comment one year later and wonder if your equipment lasted this long if you followed this idiots directions. Never got your pipe cherry red unless you don’t like the people your doing the work for.
Which brazing touch is this. I need one.
Some one should give information about this touch
I always leave a link in all my videos descriptions for the items used in my videos. I will leave you a link below for the torch. Thanks for watching!
TurboTorch Kit X-4B (A/C & Refrigeration kit)
amzn.to/3b1QZ2R
I am from India and I completed my engineering recently. I am preparing for the entrance exam for my masters. Today I studied the topic of Brazing. Thanks for this video.
I do commercial refrigeration for a living and have run 2 5/8 pipe through an entire building for a grocery store. Your prep work is perfect. But Red hot is way too hot for a small pipe like that. I am saying this respectfully as I just want to help u. your welds did not get enough penetration into the cup of the 90 and they would crack and leak in the field and you did not put a shoulder on the rim of the cup. You should start by heating up the pipe that is going into the cup of the 90 (this will help the rod start to melt when it is time to add it) then work your way onto the cup of the 90, now u can start adding the rod onto the rim of the cup of the 90. Now move the flame from the rim towards the center of the 90 and watch the brazing rod rush deep into the entire cup. Now do this all the way around the cup of the 90. Then pull your torch back and add a “shoulder” to it meaning. Pull the heat back to where it is just barely melting the rod and adds barrier of rod where the rim of the 90 and the pipe is. This is an insurance policy for leaks.
Just started in the industry and there is so much I don’t know. My 2 attempts so far I melted the pipe. Thanks for the tips. Hopefully I’ll catch on sooner rather than later.
Does this take longer to do than plumbing soldering because of the type of materials that need to be heated up? It seems almost identical to sweating pipes but i believe that solder is softer and easier to melt etc...?
will this copper self fluc rod polish to a proper copper color after sanding?
No, it will not.
When cleaning the burr the copper line must be tilted down so the burr doesn't get inside the tube. The tiniest amount will become a restriction. When brazing you should purge with nitrogen otherwise the scale produced inside the tube will mix it today's refrigerant oils causing restriction and or attach the compressor winding's..It should also be mentioned to use minimum 5% silver upwards to 15% silver content solder when welding air conditioning and refrigeration copper ..
0% is also acceptable.
OB Wan, you have a pretty good understanding, and you have a descent description (that you give here within). I would agree that 5% to 15% silver content brazing rod [not solder(ing)] and it is not welding (it's brazing).
One small critique if I may. If you hold the inner flame on the joint it will heat much more efficiently and move the flame in toward the fitting as the filler follows the heat. You don’t need so much on the pipe. Also, that long under the torch seems to weaken the fitting to a degree that it easily collapses at the slightest torque
The reason the fitting collapses is because heating it cherry red and allowing it to cool annuals the metal and makes it soft. If you heat it and then hit it with a cold rag quickly, it will harden again. This is tricky as a guy in the field probably isn't controlling the temperature that accurately and quenching improperly can create cracks and internal stresses.
Jeff Peterson but quenching can cause cracks in the filler and leak
@@jeffpeterson1331aa+❤z3❤are ru fy9t9tr9lttottg6y5
Im not really an expert, but I agree. The heat draws the solder or braze in. Some of what happened here just layed more filler on yop, improving the look, but didn't likely travel in to where it counts. The idea is to work the torch to evenly heat the assembly and 123 add braze so it runs in. In some ways you only have one shot to really nail it perfect. Will still hold, but you'll have added twice the filler. Most will just be laying on top.
The teacher said something similar. Apply heat to the back of the fitting so the solder chases the heat. Got my first brazing copper project tomorrow.
I see some comments and if y’all are so good at brazing.... why are y’all watching a “how to” on brazing? I understand commenting to offer advice or how you would’ve done something different, but commenting to bash and make fun, why are you here to begin with? Show us your brazing, yeah? I’m by no means good at brazing, my tail woulda used half a rod on one joint 🤣 but that’s why I’m here... to learn
I do not like to bash, but the reason that I comment is to help. This is not a good video and people are being fed bad information as well as being shown the wrong execution of brazing techniques.
Nicely made video dude, just a couple things to improve on in my opinion. Cherry red tends to be too hot for a quality joint, as you run the risk of porous braze joints. Preheat your female fitting to a dull red, and start to feed the brazing alloy in using the heat of the copper to melt the alloy. Flux is a must on dissimilar metal joints, and I suggest using 15% silver alloy for copper to copper. 45% for copper to brass etc. plus flux.
purely gold
In fairness, he mentioned flux for dissimilar metals
Very precise step by step demonstrations
I always put a big puddle on the top and heat the bottom of the joint and run the braze down to seal the bottoms
I used to love brazing, its a strong and very satisfying welding procedure that once mastered you can keep perfecting. Haven't done it at all for many years.
I have a question every brazing kit I see uses oxygen with mapp , which is better acetylene only or using oxygen and MAPP, I have never braised plenty a soldering, but never braised
do you need to wear tinted safety glasses with acetylene torch like that or no?
Good tutorial. I've been in HVACR many years and never used acetylene without oxygen so I can't opinion on whether is better but it appears that the pipe is a little bit hotter than it needs to be. Okay for pipe to pipe connections but maybe too long and too hot for heat sensitive connections like reversing valves, TXV's, service valves etc. even though a heat block paste or damp rag is implemented. I use 15% brazing rod and I find it flows much better than 5% at a lower heat. I did learn that I don't clean my copper as well as I should. Lol...
What about a convoluted or spiral HVAC tube?
Do I understand correctly that you use acetylene due to higher hit density? I.e. to hit the joint quicker as as little heat as possible dissipating into the length of the pipe?
air-acetylene is common in hvac in the us because it means you only have to haul 1 tank up the ladder to the roof, but it's not great for everything. i used to service small appliances like air conditioners, refrigerators and dehumidifiers where the tubing is very small, the working clearances are very tight and many times the units are made of plastic that you can't easily shield from heat. in those cases a small oxyacetylene setup with small tips and special tips like the uniweld cap'n-hook work much better because you can braze the joint very quickly without setting things on fire or melting them.
I like to carry around about a 12"x12" piece of 26ga sheet metal for tight spaces or plastic units. If you leave a burn mark through the sheet metal then you left the flame in 1 position for waaaay too long.
Air-fuel is a better way to go on smaller copper to copper.
Good video, you just give me a good idea.You are very smart and very brilliant.Brilliant thank you for everything
2/21/2021 For a Person that wants to teach others you need to learn your self. First your torch is way to hot. You use to much solder. Second you heat the elbow then the pipe that into the elbow. Third heat on the elbow causes suction. The suction pulled the solder into the elbow. Fourth you use only the amount Solder that is needed. If you have the pipe and Elbow glowing CHERRY red the solder won't stay in the elbow. When you add heat to a glowing red Copper Pipe the solder will fall out. Add Solder to the opposite side of the copper pipe always from the heat. The elbow and pipe is hot enough, with pipe soaked from all the heat the solder will melt. Fifth if soldering be sure to Clean and de-bur the Copper ends or joints to be welded. Sand the joints with sand Paper. If brazing Copper to Copper using solder use a Acid Pipe Cleaner for Soldering. If you are brazing Copper to Copper with seal-flos 15 percent Silver Solder sand each joint of that pipe and wipe clean each end and Joint before welding. Never use any cleaner acid if welding Seal-flos. Flow 5 to 10 cubing feet of Nitrogen through the copper to stop copper sulfate (ash) building up inside the Copper Lines if used on HVAC. The Ash in the HVAC will plug the Pump and Valves on the HVAC Units. Never Braze Copper to Copper with Seal-flos without flowing Nitrogen into the lines being welded. Clean your joints after welding with a damp rag. Pressurize all you joints for leaks.
You're close - on and off on your points (made here).
I see everyone using the turbo torch inside. How well does it hold up in the wind with the heat?
I see why so many disliked. 1. You dont have to heat till cherry red. 2. Remove the flame when you apply. 3. Heat from the backside when testing if yhe heat is good. 4. Let the braze do the work. It will be a cleaner finish. It looks like you burnt toast. It should be shinny and clean
Hey! What kind of rods to torch with? U mentioned silver Brazing flux? Then u said something else??
They are called brazing rods. They come in different percentages and that percentage is the silver content in them. Higher the percentage, higher silver content and strength. Typically the standard is 5-15% for a solid connection from copper to copper. Make a clean cut, sand it down and braze👍 Thanks for watching!
Stay tuned for new videos every week! 🔧⚡️
Correct me if I'm wrong but he was absolutely using the flame at a few points to melt the brazing rod, right?
Hi! I brazed pipes 2 years back (compressor of my fiesge gave up so I replaced it myself). I noticed the joint/seal is showing signs of giving up... Is it safe to pump the gas out of the compressor and redo the soldering? Thanks!
Tried to use a brazing rod for the first time but the Butane Propane mixed gas is not getting the copper pipe Cherry red, from what I’ve seen online the gas will reach 1300° C and the brazing rod melts at 710° C, so have no idea what is going on.
Any ideas would be great, The only thing I think I can put it down to is the touch head as it has no adjustment for the flame 🔥
that tested in lab. In real life heat dispersed very fast so it got be much hotter to work well
How you doing can you make a video where a copper tube is cracked millimetres from the compressor shell where its leaking oil and needs to be filled with the special welding rod...and what material to use..thnks
After braze if want braze again what should i do 1st. Becoz after every time i brazing when ever i tried to braze again its not easy task for me. Should i use flux after 1st attempt
Is soldering technically the same as brazing? I'm wondering when I would need to braze instead of solder.
Yo I do hvac on sky scrapers and stuff and I haven't found a good video yet I really need to make one
Thanks, please do. Then invest in some grammar classes.
Good video, but if you cut that joint in half, you will find flakes of contaminants on it from exposure to the air - bad news for orifices. An inert gas in the pipe while brazing will prevent the contamination by shielding it from the air.
Not a good video.
Don't you flux the pipe and joints like regular soldering?
So I am able to use the benzomatic torch you get at Home Depot? I'm doing my own ac repair and would rather not buy that expensive torch if I can avoid it.
Flux is bad for refrigeration, and you should run low pressure nitrogen through the pipe while brazing
SIRUS tone exactly
You realize it’s just a demo not a full process. Make your own video and do it right
Why exactly is flux bad for refrigeration? Just curious. I see it used when bonding unlike metals such as brass/copper. I agree with the nitrogen but this is just one method and the method used most. Let's get real, the guys in the field wont lug a nitro tank with them along with their B tanks all the time. Thanks for watching!
@@whit6282 Seriously lol I agree with the nitrogen part but this is just one method and the method used most. Thanks for watching!
@@JumpermanTech if you was a hvac tech and told me you wouldnt carry nitrogen with your torches to install my refrigeration lines id send you packing thats what causes all kinds of burnouts and txv problems
Yes overhead and what about nitrogen purging
how it looks inside ?
In the industry we use a Oxy/acetylene kit, the only place we use a B tank with turbo torch is on open lineset mostly in commercial refrigeration.
Also use a silfos alloy and not some cheap silver.
Don't heat the cupling first, always the pipe first so the silfos stick to the pipe then heat the fitting to penetrate.
Flux is used when you use different metal and also when reusing old piping.
Could I braze the vertical pipe first? then after that I rotate the pipe 90 degrees, and make the horizontal one to vertical, then braze it? because I think when braze the vertical one, the melt metal will go down into the gap between the pipes it will make the join much stronger. Thank you for sharing!
Get a professional please.
and how to size down for the capillary?
What do you mean by size down?
So, would it be a similar setup for brazing two stainless steel exhaust pipes together? Using silver solder.
Which torch are you using, are you using any other gas along acetylene?
Y’all use brazing rings? I work on a navy vessel just started brazing
Nice work brazing is an art!
Thank you!
A spray bottle before the rag works great also. 👍
Asking as a regular home owner; why for A/C lines do you use brazing rods instead of solder like used in plumbing for water?
The A\C system runs at far more higher pressure so all the joints on the system should have higher temperature resistance and stronger connection.
Good luck to you. Can I have a store link to buy a torch like the one you have? Thank you
Thank you! All my videos I leave a link for the products used in the description. I will send you a link below for the torch kit🙃 Thanks for watching & stay tuned for new videos every week!
TurboTorch Kit X-4B (A/C & Refrigeration kit)
amzn.to/3b1QZ2R
Is nitrogen necessary when brazing hvac lines? Would I harm my system if I decided braze without nitrogen?
Yes (to both of your questions).
Sir mene naya AC liya he isame Indore me upar vali koyal bara bar thandi ho rahi he lekin niche vali koyal bahot der bad thodi hi thabdi ho rahi he is liye cooling kam milati he to please koi upay batavo delere koi javab nahi deta he please koi upay batavo
How do you remove the braze? just heat it up again?
Looks like overheating the copper?
Welding skills 10/10
Welding knowledge 7/10
To all the pros here, I am a beginner in brazing. I have been wonder what will happen to the brazing joint after a certain of time exposed to the environment? I used a copper-based brazing alloy as the filler metal to join two pieces of carbon steel plate. What is the possible failure that may occur on the brazed plate?
It gets tricky binding ferrous and non ferrous metals. Just make sure everything is CLEAN PRIOR TO BRAZE. A bit more info on the actual rod used could provide a better answer to your question.
Hey I like ur video ,
I was looking for the link to the rods u were melting? Do u have it ?
I’m a 49+ year service tech #1 rule when you think it’s clean clean it again!!!
If no-brazing fitting which can be used for connecting service valve is released, do you have a intention of purchasing them?
how much is proper to purchase.
What is that rod name? Aluminum? Or copper
Can we use the flux we use for electric cable soldering if we do not have handy copper tubing flux (for one single joint) ? Thanks.
No! Do not do that! The joint won't last as long and is more prone to leak on 1st pressure test!
Hi,
What brazing rods are they.
Your penetration is ok but Definitely Need to get your heat control down and a thicker Bead but at the end of the day as long as it doesn’t leak you’re good!
“Your penetration is ok” that’s what she said.
Nice information in this. thanks brother, much appreciated.
Cool video and i think your good intention were good of showing how to braze and I give you a credit as well as pointing some stuff that was wrong. With time you'll will perfect your brazing skills. But don't use short radious 90's for refrigeration just saying.
What is the advantage of brazing over soldering which is much simpler and less demanding?
Brazing is stronger and more heat and vibration resistant.
Stay Bright 8 is a superior connection with Mapp gas
Nice informative video bro . Thanks for the nice video
Thank you we love it!
I've done this a few times on ac lines. Have the burn scars to prove it 🙂 I f I d it very stressful but the more I do it the more relaxed I feel. Is there any limit to how many times you can go back and touch up the joint. What if the joint has already cooled down.
It's like welding..you'll just be adding to what has been done.
Fluid motion is key
No more than two times.
Did he say melting point for braze rod was 1500c. Copper melts at 1080c I assume he ment to say in deg f?
should use Long radius 90s for refrigeration
Why so? Oil? How would that change the length of run because I believe a standard elbow counts as an extra 3 feet
Less friction is why.
Right my problem is I'm heading the pipe with the burner but the pipe just won't get to a point where it golws. I can melt the brazing rode but it just won't connect to the copper pipe. Can I just add that the copper pipe I have have a silver shell for some reason. Its the shower pipes
For water lines you only need to solder, not braze. If it's not getting hot enough there could be water near the joint. Believe it or not put a chunk of bread (no crust), gently push further into the pipe. It will absorb the water and create a dam to keep your joint dry. The bread will dissolve and get blown out by water pressure when you are finished. Even a little water near the joint will prevent proper heating.
Solder for water supply, not brazing.
How to increase other pipe width (diameter)
I loved the video and then went to the comments. All these pros contradicting each other makes me nervous now!!!
My friend is HVAC.
He is adamant that you do not need flux and he uses silver rods to braze 35mm pipe that they form their own sockets on.
The rods contain phosphor which acts as a flux within the rod. Is this correct?
Without the phosphor the joint would not work. Is this true?
Can you show how to do it in real live? Inside of the walls,old constructions attics 7/8 line set?
I'm actually recording a video as well speak on how to do that except I will be soldering. You can apply the same principals shown in that video for brazing in a tight space. It will be released most likely tomorrow. Subscribe for more tips/tricks and stay tuned for new videos every week!
Go to school and learn how to do this properly.
Long radius 90's are preferred in HVAC....Air conditioning rated fittings are a must....Nitrogen is over rated but to be a pro must be used these days to avoid ridicule.....First you heat the pipe....Then you heat the joint and it sucks it right in.....works every time.
I could have been in and out of there in 1/4 of the time. Your torch was whistling like the tip had something in it. I’ve used both air acetylene and ox acetylene I prefer the latter. You should have been able to get the joint up to temperature much quicker. Other than that I thought it was better than a lot of the brazing videos I’ve seen
u r moving torch 360 degrees but it's not possible in the job site
if youre having a hard time with moving around the joint on job sites i suggest getting a twin tip for your torches. it helps get a nice even amount of heat around the whole pipe , and can get the flame in hard to reach areas.
Making a small heat reflector out of some sheet metal clamped in a vise grip can be used to concentrate the heat on a joint that does not allow 360 deg access. Placing the reflector behind the joint keeps the blind side hot and prevents heating the surrounding wall. (Fire = bad)
He did a great job but you are correct I do hvac an when your brazing in the attic in hard spots it gets a little tricky
@@ChaseLife2016 yea exactly.. and I want to see the video of him using turbo torch at 1 ¹/⁸" evap line at condenser, and keep the valley cool..
Valve*
Do pros braze like this?
I guess that depends on what a pro is considered to be?
Why can you not use normal solder for refrigeration connections , it seems to work perfectly ok for plumbing and heating , I am just curious to know the answer......👍
yensabi Solder used for soldering water pipe is lower melting point which can’t hold up to the high pressures of refrigerant and vibration at the equipment. Higher silver content. Brazing is a much higher melting point and stronger bond.
Brazing is stronger to deal with the higher pressures in refrigeration. R-410a on a hot day and a plugged condenser will get you 600psi real quick and you'll never see that in plumbing.
I’d like to see the joint cut open. I like the heat away from end and the joint filled or capped.
Hold the opening of the pipe down when you ream it. If fragments of copper go through the pipes into the compressor it's not good.
I like that torch.
We always brazed on larger plumbing jobs, use a t drill and braze in a branch instead of spending money on tees
1.2k thumbs down-is how many people actually know how to braze. This is missing many critical steps.
that's a lot of heat compared to soldering. that's definitely a high pressure joint. nice vid.
Interesting but what I didn't see you do was feed the silver solder rod into the pipe and also cap the pipe at the end
Is this an example what not to do?