Hey, I just wanted to thank you for all your wonderful HVAC videos. I installed a mini-split in my garage workshop a couple years ago using one of your videos as a guide. I hired a local HVAC company to come out and check my work, pull a vacuum and release the refrigerant. They were really surprised that it was a DIY install--said it looked very professional and had thought I was a retired HVAC tech or electrician. I said no, but I learned from the best!
I agree with the few long term tradesmen who have responded about ditching the old high temperature method of silver solder (fluxed) and sil fos and going with the Harris Super 8 low temp method using a minimum of flux placed properly. I always loved how 15% silver sil fos was so sociable and forgiving but I'll be happy to ditch it for an easier and well accepted low temp method. Only wish Harris Super 8 had gained acceptance sooner ... the old ways die hard but I'll celebrate the passing of this one. Now retired after 38 years in the trade.
I have been using Harris SB8 for decades on my customer systems with no issues related to using it. The key is to use much less flux than shown.. the main benefit has been zero impact to valves and txv or sensors. Saves time and labor when working on RTUs and attic installations by reducing equipment/tools I need to carry up
@@pnp8849 i mean even the guy youre replying to is saying the benefit is reducing the amount of work he has to do. noone says staybrite is better than braze + nitro. everyone just says its easier and its good enough.
I agree, this was an overflux and under solder. For small refrigeration systems like I do, I use a stick sponge or a tiny crafting paintbrush to apply flux, and I also remove flux from the last millimeter of the inside tube.
I've used silfos for 30 years of brazing while flowing N2. It has a very long term success with the use of a 400 micron vac and a 250 lb N2 pressure test for leaks. I've used stabrite with success also but prefer silfos as it has a higher plastic range. One down side to N2 flow is if there is backpressure it can blow out the fillet and lead to pin hole leaks. Some have indicated that they stabrite the stubs and then use the press fittings and tool to connect the tubing. Remember that cleanliness is next to perfection when it comes to hvacr piping. Good video.
The issue has never been strength or porosity. It's the flux like he states in this vid. In a refrigeration circuit, you want nothing BUT the refrigerant inside.
You don't have to use much nitrogen, just enough to remove the oxygen from where the joint is. I purge the line and then nearly close the nitrogen as there's nothing to "push" oxygen back into the joint once it's purged. I know many techs who don't even carry nitrogen. Hearing how they pulled a vacuum and then found leaks that they could hear when they started charging makes me cringe!
I got a job at an HVAC company and they had NEVER used nitrogen on thousands of systems. They laughed at me for using it. I showed them what it did on the inside of the pipe without nitrogen. They just said “if it mattered we’d have thousands of issues with TXV’s and pistons”….. I’m not sure what to think. Some of them admit that it can cause premature wear on compressors. Which they’re ok with because that just means a future sale and likely out of warranty by the time it becomes an issue. This is a wild trade.
It’s been awhile since I was in HVACR for a living but I know that many in the business cut corners, they will evacuate a system but not use a micron gauge so they maybe can’t see if they have a leak and if it pulls down to a deep vacuum or not. They’ll braze without a nitrogen purge like you said and they sometimes don’t weigh in a critical charge but instead just estimate how much refrigerant is charged in the units. I always used a micron gauge on pull downs and I usually used nitrogen when brazing.
@jeromebullard6123 It is crazy. I know a pipe fitter who does nothing but braze reafer pipe, and his company never uses N2 either. They install strainers, then come back after the system is running and pull and clean the strainers.
Just to be clear, through our research, non-corrosive fluxes are only non-corrosive at room temperatures, such as rosin. Rosin flux for example is used for soldering on electronics because it has the appropriate acidity when heated when there are more hydrogen ions present but when it cools to room temperature there are less hydrogen ions and the acidity drops to near neutral so no corrosion occurs at normal room temperature. The problem here is that the compressor and reversing valve sections are hot. The electrical windings are in the compressor. Some compressors use the low temperature refrigerant vapor to cool the windings while others actually use the discharge vapor. There are various types of compressors and we just want techs to be aware and educated on what they are doing. Thanks to everyone who diligently takes pride in their work every day in order to take care of their family, company, and customers!
Craig - another great video. So many of the things you do I did too. I'd like to add something: when I was done brazing I never stopped the nitrogen flow until after the tubing was cooled to prevent cupric oxide formation after brazing. Please keep them coming, Thanks, Rick.
Great info. As usual.....BTW I use the Red Glue on copper joints , no heat required, it's a great product works up to 700 psi, you just clean the copper real good apply the red glue put the pieces together and turn them works through friction to seal...it really works , I've used it for years.
Very well composed video! It was great to see the examples of the Solder Vs Purge Vs non-purge techniques and what gets left on the inside of the joint. I've watched HVAC techs braze the connections for both of my home AC systems neither one purged with nitrogen, but now I know to make sure the tech that does the work goes through the proper process to insure a clean braze area inside of the joint. I will also applaud you for taking the time to demo the proper handling and shut off of the torch and purge regulator I used to use acetylene at work for soldering joints and seams for splice sleeves in lead sheathed telecom cables, and knowing how to handle the torch was a big safety item.
Your book is fantastic. It should be mandatory reading because I can guarantee there are guys out there in the field who would benefit from it. Thanks for another great video!
I made up some test pieces for work using these 3 methods. A flow regulator isn't necessary but handy, I just shoved the end of the hose into the pipe and cracked the regulator until I barely felt a flow. Let it flow for a few seconds and braze came out clean. The staybrite solder flows like water compared to plumbing solder, the swedge has to be very tight, to the point of just barely fitting over the pipe. If you make the swedge too big or have any gaps, it'll open up as soon as you remove the heat. Braze with nitrogen is still my preferred method.
Agree that Craig is one of the main “go to “ guys in the HVAC Industry. If you wanted to create a Three Musketeers of HVAC, I would nominate: Craig M. from AC Service Tech Bryan O. from HVAC School and Ty B. from Love2HVAC.
Im thankful for all of the knowledge you've shared through the last several years. This time brazing skills hurt to watch and not the greatest to be direct. Big fan here.
This is a great video with example comparison's. 👏 I will admit, I do prefer silver solder as often as possible. Knowing the effects is definitely important. Thank you. You are the best
I have been in the HVAC industry for 42 years. 5 years ago my company switched to the low temperature Harris Super 8 system with NO issues. Sorry to bust the Old Testament of Brazing with silver solder is best. Harris super 8 system is much safer and every bit as strong as the older outdated high temperature solder. I think you should have contacted the Harris company to confirm their stance regarding using their system with refrigerant soldering before you through their system under the bus. You’re usually more thorough before offering your opinion.
It’s clearly not the “best” practice he read the back of bottle at the end of the video no need to call Harris. And it’s not his opinion lol did you watch the video?
You’re no engineer, you don’t know what you’re talking about. The low temperature melting metals are soft and weak. You need more temperature to melt the stronger metals like silver or steel, copper, tungsten because they have a higher bond strength. More bond strength = better bond. Lead will have a weaker bond. You can counter act this by giving it more space to bond, maybe instead of a 3cm overlap of female and male pipes, make it 6cm.
I like using the orange 56% rods....they work great on joining dissimilar metals and its also great for copper to copper connections. The ductile strength is much higher than 15%, and it flows more liquid like. Makes it easier to make pretty braze joints too. Then cap it with 15% shoulder. Makes for a very strong connection.
God bless such a great teacher, well explained. Your videos will give way more confidence and better teaching to the new generations coming into the trade!
We had techs that didn't like to flow nitrogen. On one of our large piping jobs the strainers on the evaporators of two of the units were completely packed with the remnants of that oxidation. Call back on brand new systems before they were even commissioned. Flow nitrogen, period. I liked your video. The only thing I would change is not have your flame on the pipe. Pull it back a bit, get more even heat and an easier braze. Also you don't have to build a shoulder if it is a good braze, although I am guilty of it on remote jobs for extra insurance. I like staybrite but only use it on water pipes, condensate drains, etc.
Don't get me Wrong,..... Craig Always teaching the Right Way that is the Best Way 👍👍.... but One of my AC condenser Unit is BAD Can't be fixed only 10 years old and installed by REAL AC tech using Brazing method. Now I am Replacing with NEW Rheem Endeavor Condenser and will be using Stay Brite 8 with flux using Sparingly at the joints
Good video. Just an FYI, I've seen two types of braze rods; those with phosphorous and the rods without phosphorous. The brazing rods without phosphorous require the use of brazing flux.
Great videos and I have learned more than I can ever negatively comment about from this channel. I would just like to point out in the section where he brazes while flowing nitrogen, that it was a bit sloppy due to how he positioned his flame in relation to where he was brazing. With a pipe that small he really didn’t need to keep the flame head right on the point of brazing because it would get the entire pipe hot enough to melt that solder and get cleaner results. Again, I have learned so much from this channel and really appreciate the information you all put out for us 🙏🏼
Great video, thank you for what you do. I purchased one of your manuals. I would say I'm surprised trace amounts of flux would really ruin the wiring in a compressor.
I have been reading the Stay Brite versus braze discussion in the comments. It’s important to understand that acid is a reagent that is consumed in a reaction. It is not as though the flux stays reactive in the system forever and can corrode endlessly.
If you worried about that little bit of flux that’s in the tube, don’t! It will get washed away with the refrigerant oil and eventually it will get collected into the filter dryer where it will do no harm there. Been using this system since it came out and NEVER ONCE had a problem with it. Now that is only for the inside acoil joints. The outside joints I still like to braze only because if the unit getting moved the soldered joint will tend to fail if allot of stress is put on it. Don’t really have to worry about that inside the house because that really is never really moved or touched for that matter so it’s fine, but outside I would definitely recommend brazing. Also the advantage to silver soldering the acoil is the lower temperature has allot less likelihood of damaging the txv valve. Seen many times where this valve gets fucked up because of too much heat from brazing and it’s hard to keep this thing cool. And on these new acoils changing the txv valve is a real bitch due to they are now brazed in at the factory and there is no fucking room to work on these pieces of shit! As you can tell I’m not a very big fan of txv valves. I always use the piston system and once again, never had a problem with these, but boy problem after problem with the txvs, usually within the first five years these shit things fail and I end up just changing the whole acoil to a piston system and had them run 20 plus years with no issues! That concludes the lesson of the day!
For Stay Brite#8 soft silver solder use the Stay Clean liquid flux, not the paste, wipe on sparingly with clean rag or brush, residue will burn off when you heat up the copper. This prevents flux from entering the system, and cleans the copper beautifully. I've done this for years and never had a problem. Wear gloves, the liquid flux is very acidy and you don't want it on your hands
I’ve been soldering HVAC copper for over three decades and I’ve never had a joint failure. I like that it melts at a lower temperature and for me it’s more convenient. I don’t expect I’ll ever change.
In old mineral oil lubricated systems, you got away with flux contamination. But with POE lubrication, all that flux from the inside goes into circulation. The issue is not whether the connections are solid. The issue is introducing contaminants into the system. You simply don’t know the damage that you cause through premature compressor motor failures. Your philosophy seems to be: Ignorance is bliss. You would be well-advised to switch to cold crimp fittings.
@@denverbraughler3948 In my experience with solder it’s the guys using way to much flux than needed that causes problems. Like I said I have installations that have lasted for 20 years with P0E oil in them and they are soldered!
It would be more interesting and scientific to have a lab analyze the oil after contamination with varying amounts of flux then analyze the effects of the contamination on winding coatings. In a lot of cases it’s not worth it to be 100% perfect. You start getting diminishing returns as you approach perfection. This video is great for Internet arguments, but only partially scientific.
If we use the FLUX sparingly.... Just Enough to Cover the joints. It's just fine. I used Stay Brite 8 .... 10 years ago on my first Try installing Central AC system without any Leak at ALL 😅👍
I believe flux at the joints 6-8 connections will be very small amount when refrigerant circulates throughout the System. Just like Water 🌊💦 and Salt Or Sugar. Small amount will not make you have High blood pressure.
Yes sir 15-% w turbo torches worked for 40 + yrs but never thought to flow nitrogen bk in 90 s set so many AC HP Coils doing trim n sets for booming HVAC cos as sub contractor no nitrogen braze & no me but there start up crew would do purge no vacuum startups now comes along lot txv & 410a w hydroscopic oils then all changed procedures changed labor cost went up in price went up … retired now, but still like to keep up with a game
No one has commented on vibration, i will take a brazed joint over a soldered joint ever time they will not come apart. Just get a nitrogen tank and do the job the way that all manufacturers recommend.
Indeed, excellent video, because VERY educational, KEY POINT, video to prevent many MISHAPS doing HVAC JOB N thanks 4 uploading n sharing! VERY well made or excellent job, many kudos or thank 2 U!
Nice video and well done. The only issue I have is regarding the proper method of using Staybrite #8. If you use the method Harris presents in their documentation, you will find there is a way to safely use the correct flux with Staybrite and not risk the flux entering the tubing, providing the tubing is heated correctly. Still, a great video!
Great video. In the case of the silver solder, if we're talking about just one residential HVAC system can we count on the filter dryer to absorb the flux so it doesn't repeatedly run through the rest of the system?
Good video, however my company including me personally have been using Staybrite 8 for over 30 years on thousands of systems including compressor change outs with a total of 0 problems and 0 compressor burnouts. Actually the number of incorrectly brazed systems from others that we find is a ridiculously high number, ie: cooked valves, clogged components with cupric oxide and burnt equipment along with burned up compressor shells. We do braze on a rare occasion but mostly solder!
When your compressors failed within a few years, the customer called a competitor. No one said that it kills 100% of compressor motors every time you solder with flux. But that’s pretty amazing never to have a compressor short out in over 30 years.
@@robertgregory2618I believe what I just saw. However the actual impact excess flux has on a compressor hasn't been tested here. Yet for most of the video, it's being stated as fact. As someone who has also been soldering with stay-brite 8 for the last decade. (I use less flux than demonstrated here.) I'm yet to have a single compressor failure.
Soldering is the occlusive joining of two or more separate pieces using a third material. Brazing is the joining two or more materials by alloying the pieces using a second material .
These fluxes may be acidic at normal room temperature or in the case of this flux, non acidic at room temp and then becomes acidic when heated so it etches the copper for the solder to adhere. Are you familiar with a flux that remains near 7PH during high and low temperatures?
@acservicetechchannel Nokorode by Rectorseal is as close as you can get to acid free. Don't forget about the dillution of flux in the Poe oil, it will never be at the same acidic concentration as it was in the flux bottle. There is clear evidence of non nitrogen brazing destroying brand new air conditioners, you'll have to provide evidence of flux doing the same. I can't find any evidence of it on the web or in the feild.
Very good i always said silver bearing solider better as I was brazing now we need a video brazing with nitrogen to the last fitting service valve need heat prof hoses thank you may Jesus Christ Bless you and family.
Much needed video 👍 Much more copper oxide is formed if you’re raising the pipe in a vertical position . Heat creates a natural flu effect that causes the air inside the pipe to rise. This brings much more oxygen latent air flowing across the glowing hot copper producing a thicker layer of copper oxide inside the pipe. Very good for presentation for students in class .
You are ALWAYS going to have at least 1 braze joint that is going away from the filter dryer as you start up the system . Those cupric oxide going to clog the TXV valve or going into the compressor. And if enough cupric oxide . It will clog your filter dryer too. Using nitrogen flow would be so much cheaper in the long run .
I love the detail to the copper fitting cleaning but let’s be honest in a real world scenario where pipes are often vertical and oily, doing this much cleaning is asking for extra trash in the system. Whether it be copper shaving or dust from the wire wheel this much cleaning is going to put stuff into the system.. But of course In a perfect world we would “clean it all out” before brazing.
You produce the best teaching videos out there. It is much appreciated! How much flux, or deposits is the filter dryer going to take out of the system and would an oversized filter dryer help any?
Very informative video. Thank You! Just one comment. Dont you suppose that the people that developed Sta-Brite took the type of flux into account for the intended purpose? I mean, if there were many compressor failures after use, they would have opened themselves up to litigation.
brazing without nitrogen is ugly! R.I.P. cap tube/txv 😬 nice demo video. probably a good idea to use an "HH" type filter drier, if you use flux(or obviously have a burnout/acidic issue) and/or re-use linesets.
At the 7:45 mark, you say you are waiting for the solder to "dry". A more accurate term would be waiting for the solder to "cool, fully solidify". Other than that, your video is great!
Great video iv never seen a torch like that iv only seen oxy-acetylene but with the stay bright 8 you can flush the lines out and what size bottle is the nitrogen.
While flux (or any contaminant) in the system is certainly not desirable, I'm skeptical that amount of flux (times a few joints) is enough exceed the acid removal capacity of the filter-drier. It would be interesting to inspect the compressor motor windings for abnormal degradation from a system that was installed using flux after it ran for 20 years.
another great video. Too bad there isn't a process to eliminate/prevent the flux from forming and adhering to the inner wall, as that looks to be the best method of bonding. In this example, you did a great job and used a fairly small amount, but was clearly enough to form inside. For now flowing nitrogen and >1200F flux less solder/brazing. If the flux would stay as a gas it would flow out with something like nitrogen vs getting stuck on the wall.
When brazing with propane or butane and an oxygen concentrator, I wonder whether the butane or propane could be used as a shield gas. It will of course make a little flame at both the break and wherever it vents out, but if it shields then it does remove the need for a CO₂ or nitrogen bottle. I'm not suggesting this because it could only be done under strictly controlled conditions due to extreme danger of explosions, but it would be interesting to know whether it works. Of course the oxygen concentrator does have a nitrogen output but perhaps not pure enough for shielding?
@@stepannovotny4291 I guess you can try a propane purge on some scrap tubing and see how it looks inside. I'm curious. If it works then you just need to address the safety issues.
Hey, I just wanted to thank you for all your wonderful HVAC videos. I installed a mini-split in my garage workshop a couple years ago using one of your videos as a guide. I hired a local HVAC company to come out and check my work, pull a vacuum and release the refrigerant. They were really surprised that it was a DIY install--said it looked very professional and had thought I was a retired HVAC tech or electrician. I said no, but I learned from the best!
I agree with the few long term tradesmen who have responded about ditching the old high temperature method of silver solder (fluxed) and sil fos and going with the Harris Super 8 low temp method using a minimum of flux placed properly.
I always loved how 15% silver sil fos was so sociable and forgiving but I'll be happy to ditch it for an easier and well accepted low temp method. Only wish Harris Super 8 had gained acceptance sooner ... the old ways die hard but I'll celebrate the passing of this one. Now retired after 38 years in the trade.
I have been using Harris SB8 for decades on my customer systems with no issues related to using it. The key is to use much less flux than shown.. the main benefit has been zero impact to valves and txv or sensors. Saves time and labor when working on RTUs and attic installations by reducing equipment/tools I need to carry up
I agree with you.
Craig over flux it and he also use less solder intentionally to have flux left inside. I think he didn't get a commission from Harris.
@@pnp8849 i mean even the guy youre replying to is saying the benefit is reducing the amount of work he has to do. noone says staybrite is better than braze + nitro. everyone just says its easier and its good enough.
I agree, this was an overflux and under solder. For small refrigeration systems like I do, I use a stick sponge or a tiny crafting paintbrush to apply flux, and I also remove flux from the last millimeter of the inside tube.
I've used silfos for 30 years of brazing while flowing N2. It has a very long term success with the use of a 400 micron vac and a 250 lb N2 pressure test for leaks. I've used stabrite with success also but prefer silfos as it has a higher plastic range. One down side to N2 flow is
if there is backpressure it can blow out the fillet and lead to pin hole leaks.
Some have indicated that they stabrite the stubs and then use the press fittings and tool to connect the tubing. Remember that cleanliness
is next to perfection when it comes to hvacr piping. Good video.
The issue has never been strength or porosity. It's the flux like he states in this vid. In a refrigeration circuit, you want nothing BUT the refrigerant inside.
You don't have to use much nitrogen, just enough to remove the oxygen from where the joint is. I purge the line and then nearly close the nitrogen as there's nothing to "push" oxygen back into the joint once it's purged. I know many techs who don't even carry nitrogen. Hearing how they pulled a vacuum and then found leaks that they could hear when they started charging makes me cringe!
I got a job at an HVAC company and they had NEVER used nitrogen on thousands of systems. They laughed at me for using it. I showed them what it did on the inside of the pipe without nitrogen. They just said “if it mattered we’d have thousands of issues with TXV’s and pistons”….. I’m not sure what to think. Some of them admit that it can cause premature wear on compressors. Which they’re ok with because that just means a future sale and likely out of warranty by the time it becomes an issue. This is a wild trade.
It’s been awhile since I was in HVACR for a living but I know that many in the business cut corners, they will evacuate a system but not use a micron gauge so they maybe can’t see if they have a leak and if it pulls down to a deep vacuum or not. They’ll braze without a nitrogen purge like you said and they sometimes don’t weigh in a critical charge but instead just estimate how much refrigerant is charged in the units. I always used a micron gauge on pull downs and I usually used nitrogen when brazing.
@jeromebullard6123 It is crazy. I know a pipe fitter who does nothing but braze reafer pipe, and his company never uses N2 either. They install strainers, then come back after the system is running and pull and clean the strainers.
Just to be clear, through our research, non-corrosive fluxes are only non-corrosive at room temperatures, such as rosin. Rosin flux for example is used for soldering on electronics because it has the appropriate acidity when heated when there are more hydrogen ions present but when it cools to room temperature there are less hydrogen ions and the acidity drops to near neutral so no corrosion occurs at normal room temperature. The problem here is that the compressor and reversing valve sections are hot. The electrical windings are in the compressor. Some compressors use the low temperature refrigerant vapor to cool the windings while others actually use the discharge vapor. There are various types of compressors and we just want techs to be aware and educated on what they are doing. Thanks to everyone who diligently takes pride in their work every day in order to take care of their family, company, and customers!
Hey my furnace just went. It starts runs, then dies and gives code E207 I tested the ignitor it was good
You're the best. I got your book and quick guide. Your quick guide is useless to me because I'm in commercial and it mostly 404 and others.
Craig - another great video. So many of the things you do I did too. I'd like to add something: when I was done brazing I never stopped the nitrogen flow until after the tubing was cooled to prevent cupric oxide formation after brazing. Please keep them coming, Thanks, Rick.
Great info. As usual.....BTW I use the Red Glue on copper joints , no heat required, it's a great product works up to 700 psi, you just clean the copper real good apply the red glue put the pieces together and turn them works through friction to seal...it really works , I've used it for years.
Very well composed video! It was great to see the examples of the Solder Vs Purge Vs non-purge techniques and what gets left on the inside of the joint. I've watched HVAC techs braze the connections for both of my home AC systems neither one purged with nitrogen, but now I know to make sure the tech that does the work goes through the proper process to insure a clean braze area inside of the joint. I will also applaud you for taking the time to demo the proper handling and shut off of the torch and purge regulator I used to use acetylene at work for soldering joints and seams for splice sleeves in lead sheathed telecom cables, and knowing how to handle the torch was a big safety item.
Your book is fantastic. It should be mandatory reading because I can guarantee there are guys out there in the field who would benefit from it. Thanks for another great video!
I made up some test pieces for work using these 3 methods. A flow regulator isn't necessary but handy, I just shoved the end of the hose into the pipe and cracked the regulator until I barely felt a flow. Let it flow for a few seconds and braze came out clean. The staybrite solder flows like water compared to plumbing solder, the swedge has to be very tight, to the point of just barely fitting over the pipe. If you make the swedge too big or have any gaps, it'll open up as soon as you remove the heat. Braze with nitrogen is still my preferred method.
I've done it with cap-tube so big gap is doable just need practices.
You have too much nitrogen if you can feel it. That’s causing the gaps in solder.
Thank you for taking the time to do a job right.
You are my go to refrigeration Guru.
Agree that Craig is one of the main “go to “ guys in the HVAC Industry.
If you wanted to create a Three Musketeers of HVAC, I would nominate:
Craig M. from AC Service Tech
Bryan O. from HVAC School and
Ty B. from Love2HVAC.
Another great video illustrating what takes place where you can’t see it.
Im thankful for all of the knowledge you've shared through the last several years. This time brazing skills hurt to watch and not the greatest to be direct. Big fan here.
This is a great video with example comparison's. 👏
I will admit, I do prefer silver solder as often as possible. Knowing the effects is definitely important. Thank you. You are the best
I have been in the HVAC industry for 42 years. 5 years ago my company switched to the low temperature Harris Super 8 system with NO issues. Sorry to bust the Old Testament of Brazing with silver solder is best. Harris super 8 system is much safer and every bit as strong as the older outdated high temperature solder. I think you should have contacted the Harris company to confirm their stance regarding using their system with refrigerant soldering before you through their system under the bus. You’re usually more thorough before offering your opinion.
I agreed. I'm sure Harris Super 8 engineers had tested many many years before they have it out on the market.
It’s clearly not the “best” practice he read the back of bottle at the end of the video no need to call Harris. And it’s not his opinion lol did you watch the video?
no marketting here 😅
You’re no engineer, you don’t know what you’re talking about. The low temperature melting metals are soft and weak. You need more temperature to melt the stronger metals like silver or steel, copper, tungsten because they have a higher bond strength. More bond strength = better bond.
Lead will have a weaker bond. You can counter act this by giving it more space to bond, maybe instead of a 3cm overlap of female and male pipes, make it 6cm.
@@Stealthsilent1337so you’re an engineer then?
I like using the orange 56% rods....they work great on joining dissimilar metals and its also great for copper to copper connections. The ductile strength is much higher than 15%, and it flows more liquid like. Makes it easier to make pretty braze joints too. Then cap it with 15% shoulder. Makes for a very strong connection.
God bless such a great teacher, well explained. Your videos will give way more confidence and better teaching to the new generations coming into the trade!
We had techs that didn't like to flow nitrogen. On one of our large piping jobs the strainers on the evaporators of two of the units were completely packed with the remnants of that oxidation. Call back on brand new systems before they were even commissioned. Flow nitrogen, period. I liked your video. The only thing I would change is not have your flame on the pipe. Pull it back a bit, get more even heat and an easier braze. Also you don't have to build a shoulder if it is a good braze, although I am guilty of it on remote jobs for extra insurance. I like staybrite but only use it on water pipes, condensate drains, etc.
As always nice video and I like to watch them over and over. Your one of the top teacher and technician.
Thanks for sharing. You've convinced me that press fittings are the way to go!
Don't get me Wrong,..... Craig Always teaching the Right Way that is the Best Way 👍👍.... but One of my AC condenser Unit is BAD Can't be fixed only 10 years old and installed by REAL AC tech using Brazing method. Now I am Replacing with NEW Rheem Endeavor Condenser and will be using Stay Brite 8 with flux using Sparingly at the joints
Good move.
Good video. Just an FYI, I've seen two types of braze rods; those with phosphorous and the rods without phosphorous. The brazing rods without phosphorous require the use of brazing flux.
I love watching these videos i learn little bits that i didnt know
Great videos and I have learned more than I can ever negatively comment about from this channel. I would just like to point out in the section where he brazes while flowing nitrogen, that it was a bit sloppy due to how he positioned his flame in relation to where he was brazing. With a pipe that small he really didn’t need to keep the flame head right on the point of brazing because it would get the entire pipe hot enough to melt that solder and get cleaner results. Again, I have learned so much from this channel and really appreciate the information you all put out for us 🙏🏼
Worked at a company and was taught to put the pipe and fittings together and just flux outside the joint. The heat draws the flux in.
Lately though I braze since I didn’t do that there and I’m getting decent at it. Though it is much more expensive.
Great video, thank you for what you do. I purchased one of your manuals. I would say I'm surprised trace amounts of flux would really ruin the wiring in a compressor.
I have been reading the Stay Brite versus braze discussion in the comments. It’s important to understand that acid is a reagent that is consumed in a reaction. It is not as though the flux stays reactive in the system forever and can corrode endlessly.
If you worried about that little bit of flux that’s in the tube, don’t! It will get washed away with the refrigerant oil and eventually it will get collected into the filter dryer where it will do no harm there. Been using this system since it came out and NEVER ONCE had a problem with it. Now that is only for the inside acoil joints. The outside joints I still like to braze only because if the unit getting moved the soldered joint will tend to fail if allot of stress is put on it. Don’t really have to worry about that inside the house because that really is never really moved or touched for that matter so it’s fine, but outside I would definitely recommend brazing. Also the advantage to silver soldering the acoil is the lower temperature has allot less likelihood of damaging the txv valve. Seen many times where this valve gets fucked up because of too much heat from brazing and it’s hard to keep this thing cool. And on these new acoils changing the txv valve is a real bitch due to they are now brazed in at the factory and there is no fucking room to work on these pieces of shit! As you can tell I’m not a very big fan of txv valves. I always use the piston system and once again, never had a problem with these, but boy problem after problem with the txvs, usually within the first five years these shit things fail and I end up just changing the whole acoil to a piston system and had them run 20 plus years with no issues! That concludes the lesson of the day!
Thanks, great info.
For Stay Brite#8 soft silver solder use the Stay Clean liquid flux, not the paste, wipe on sparingly with clean rag or brush, residue will burn off when you heat up the copper. This prevents flux from entering the system, and cleans the copper beautifully. I've done this for years and never had a problem. Wear gloves, the liquid flux is very acidy and you don't want it on your hands
I’ve been soldering HVAC copper for over three decades and I’ve never had a joint failure. I like that it melts at a lower temperature and for me it’s more convenient. I don’t expect I’ll ever change.
In old mineral oil lubricated systems, you got away with flux contamination.
But with POE lubrication, all that flux from the inside goes into circulation.
The issue is not whether the connections are solid.
The issue is introducing contaminants into the system.
You simply don’t know the damage that you cause through premature compressor motor failures.
Your philosophy seems to be: Ignorance is bliss.
You would be well-advised to switch to cold crimp fittings.
@@denverbraughler3948 In my experience with solder it’s the guys using way to much flux than needed that causes problems. Like I said I have installations that have lasted for 20 years with P0E oil in them and they are soldered!
@@Huntnfish74916 I agree.
@@denverbraughler3948 POE has been use over 3 decade ago since the banned of CFC. You seem to know little in this industry.
@@denverbraughler3948just more sales.
Great lesson, Craig!
It would be more interesting and scientific to have a lab analyze the oil after contamination with varying amounts of flux then analyze the effects of the contamination on winding coatings. In a lot of cases it’s not worth it to be 100% perfect. You start getting diminishing returns as you approach perfection. This video is great for Internet arguments, but only partially scientific.
GREAT IDEA! Call 'Project Farm'
If we use the FLUX sparingly.... Just Enough to Cover the joints. It's just fine. I used Stay Brite 8 .... 10 years ago on my first Try installing Central AC system without any Leak at ALL 😅👍
I believe flux at the joints 6-8 connections will be very small amount when refrigerant circulates throughout the System. Just like Water 🌊💦 and Salt Or Sugar. Small amount will not make you have High blood pressure.
Yes sir 15-% w turbo torches worked for 40 + yrs but never thought to flow nitrogen bk in 90 s set so many AC HP Coils doing trim n sets for booming HVAC cos as sub contractor no nitrogen braze & no me but there start up crew would do purge no vacuum startups now comes along lot txv & 410a w hydroscopic oils then all changed procedures changed labor cost went up in price went up … retired now, but still like to keep up with a game
Great tips, Craig. Thank you.
I always appreciate you comments Brian!
It’s wild that people still argue about flowing Nitrogen.
Bravo..........the silver solder is the only way to weld different metals together.......cheaper is oxy/propane........cheers
Love your videos man,
big fan, bought your books as well.
Thank you so much for your encouragement!
Much love, Craig!
Great video as usual. Always looking forward to new ones.
Really appreciate ur videos, they're so helpful.
No one has commented on vibration, i will take a brazed joint over a soldered joint ever time they will not come apart.
Just get a nitrogen tank and do the job the way that all manufacturers recommend.
Indeed, excellent video, because VERY educational, KEY POINT, video to prevent many MISHAPS doing HVAC JOB N thanks 4 uploading n sharing! VERY well made or excellent job, many kudos or thank 2 U!
Nice video and well done. The only issue I have is regarding the proper method of using Staybrite #8. If you use the method Harris presents in their documentation, you will find there is a way to safely use the correct flux with Staybrite and not risk the flux entering the tubing, providing the tubing is heated correctly. Still, a great video!
Great video. In the case of the silver solder, if we're talking about just one residential HVAC system can we count on the filter dryer to absorb the flux so it doesn't repeatedly run through the rest of the system?
Good video, however my company including me personally have been using Staybrite 8 for over 30 years on thousands of systems including compressor change outs with a total of 0 problems and 0 compressor burnouts. Actually the number of incorrectly brazed systems from others that we find is a ridiculously high number, ie: cooked valves, clogged components with cupric oxide and burnt equipment along with burned up compressor shells. We do braze on a rare occasion but mostly solder!
So you don't believe what you just saw? I understand where your coming from by your experience but doesn't this make you wonder a little.
You think your company didn’t have any issues because of that, not necessarily means you didn’t
When your compressors failed within a few years, the customer called a competitor.
No one said that it kills 100% of compressor motors every time you solder with flux.
But that’s pretty amazing never to have a compressor short out in over 30 years.
@@robertgregory2618I believe what I just saw.
However the actual impact excess flux has on a compressor hasn't been tested here. Yet for most of the video, it's being stated as fact.
As someone who has also been soldering with stay-brite 8 for the last decade. (I use less flux than demonstrated here.) I'm yet to have a single compressor failure.
I'm speechless, ty.
Absolutely the BEST !!!
What a GREAT Video !!!
Great video! But I'm sticking with my stay brite 8!
Me too 👍
me 3
Excellent education, thank you!
EXCELLENT DEMO. MANY THANKS!!!!
I'm so glad you put this out. Thanks for a great demo and explanation.
Soldering is the occlusive joining of two or more separate pieces using a third material. Brazing is the joining two or more materials by alloying the pieces using a second material .
👍🏻 excellent video. Thanks for sharing.
Great video…I need to show this to my ac buddies !
How about nitrogen with the flux and solder? Mapp gas torch and the stay bride 8 are easily carried and I'm sure much cheaper.
Nice analysis ….I’ve wondered about Staybrite.
Use a non acid nocorode flux, ditch the stay clean.
Great Video, by the way.
These fluxes may be acidic at normal room temperature or in the case of this flux, non acidic at room temp and then becomes acidic when heated so it etches the copper for the solder to adhere. Are you familiar with a flux that remains near 7PH during high and low temperatures?
@acservicetechchannel Nokorode by Rectorseal is as close as you can get to acid free. Don't forget about the dillution of flux in the Poe oil, it will never be at the same acidic concentration as it was in the flux bottle. There is clear evidence of non nitrogen brazing destroying brand new air conditioners, you'll have to provide evidence of flux doing the same. I can't find any evidence of it on the web or in the feild.
Very good i always said silver bearing solider better as I was brazing now we need a video brazing with nitrogen to the last fitting service valve need heat prof hoses thank you may Jesus Christ Bless you and family.
Could you have a flushing circuit after soldering to remove the flux.
Excellent video. It's confusing to wait for the braze to "dry". You are waiting for it to freeze.
Much needed video 👍
Much more copper oxide is formed if you’re raising the pipe in a vertical position . Heat creates a natural flu effect that causes the air inside the pipe to rise. This brings much more oxygen latent air flowing across the glowing hot copper producing a thicker layer of copper oxide inside the pipe.
Very good for presentation for students in class .
I like you work brother, is beautiful 💯❤️
Great video, I'm wondering if TIG welding can be used to weld copper pipes in HVAC systems?
Will the filter dryer catch the cupric oxide flakes?
solid info 👍🏼
noob question..why not solder on a valve or two so you can flush it clean? just cost?
I use stay brite and douse a little acid scavanger in the system.
Can you talk about the role the filter dryer can play in absorbing things like leftover flux and cupric oxide?
You are ALWAYS going to have at least 1 braze joint that is going away from the filter dryer as you start up the system .
Those cupric oxide going to clog the TXV valve or going into the compressor.
And if enough cupric oxide . It will clog your filter dryer too.
Using nitrogen flow would be so much cheaper in the long run .
Saturday school we here
Great video
However, I have seen many havc techs and contractors on the jobs, nobody used nitrogen while brazing😅
I love the detail to the copper fitting cleaning but let’s be honest in a real world scenario where pipes are often vertical and oily, doing this much cleaning is asking for extra trash in the system. Whether it be copper shaving or dust from the wire wheel this much cleaning is going to put stuff into the system.. But of course In a perfect world we would “clean it all out” before brazing.
Yes trash will get in the lines that's why I use a small good suction portable vacuum to suck out copper shavings and QTIPS to remove any dust.
I dont feel so bad with my sil braze now. Lol
Great video.
I used the liquid acid flux and silver solder… any issues had have always been installer error.
How do you flow nitrogen while brazing in a compressor or an expansion valve?
Your swaging tool is interesting. Can you give details?
Found nothing comparable.
You produce the best teaching videos out there. It is much appreciated! How much flux, or deposits is the filter dryer going to take out of the system and would an oversized filter dryer help any?
Can you make a video about press fittings and what are your options about press fittings tanks
Very informative video. Thank You! Just one comment. Dont you suppose that the people that developed Sta-Brite took the type of flux into account for the intended purpose? I mean, if there were many compressor failures after use, they would have opened themselves up to litigation.
brazing without nitrogen is ugly! R.I.P. cap tube/txv 😬
nice demo video. probably a good idea to use an "HH" type filter drier, if you use flux(or obviously have a burnout/acidic issue) and/or re-use linesets.
At the 7:45 mark, you say you are waiting for the solder to "dry". A more accurate term would be waiting for the solder to "cool, fully solidify". Other than that, your video is great!
Great video i learned alot thank you
Excellent
Press fittings vs flowing nitrogen.. hmm Great detailed video, Thanks!
Great video thanks 👍🏽
Great video iv never seen a torch like that iv only seen oxy-acetylene but with the stay bright 8 you can flush the lines out and what size bottle is the nitrogen.
While flux (or any contaminant) in the system is certainly not desirable, I'm skeptical that amount of flux (times a few joints) is enough exceed the acid removal capacity of the filter-drier. It would be interesting to inspect the compressor motor windings for abnormal degradation from a system that was installed using flux after it ran for 20 years.
Filter Drier would not caught that if u welding whit out nitrogen ?
Can we just flush the system after soldering? That will be easier and safer caus we dont have to heat that pipe to high temperatures.
But the filter drier should catch the cupric oxide??
Very thorough. Thank you.
another great video. Too bad there isn't a process to eliminate/prevent the flux from forming and adhering to the inner wall, as that looks to be the best method of bonding. In this example, you did a great job and used a fairly small amount, but was clearly enough to form inside. For now flowing nitrogen and >1200F flux less solder/brazing.
If the flux would stay as a gas it would flow out with something like nitrogen vs getting stuck on the wall.
Great video, can you do a video on the methods and reasons to solder?
Excellent video!
What is that canister attached below the nitrogen regulator?
Great video. How about a video using a refrigerant drier and I bet the cupric oxide is captured and rendered a non issue real quick
Awsome class. Thank you.k
When brazing with propane or butane and an oxygen concentrator, I wonder whether the butane or propane could be used as a shield gas. It will of course make a little flame at both the break and wherever it vents out, but if it shields then it does remove the need for a CO₂ or nitrogen bottle. I'm not suggesting this because it could only be done under strictly controlled conditions due to extreme danger of explosions, but it would be interesting to know whether it works. Of course the oxygen concentrator does have a nitrogen output but perhaps not pure enough for shielding?
Interesting idea, but nitrogen is cheap and safe.
@@radarecho57 Nitrogen for the folks who have it on hand, but if not then what?
@@stepannovotny4291 I guess you can try a propane purge on some scrap tubing and see how it looks inside. I'm curious. If it works then you just need to address the safety issues.
I wish all company owners would watch this and realize that all this done correctly takes more time and tools. When i have 8 to 10 calls to do. 🥵
doesnt the vacuum clean the acid oil?